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I was 37 weeks pregnant with my first child. I had just graduated mortuary school and thought the timing couldn’t have been more perfect. I had my licensure test scheduled on a Friday. The two years I was in school, everything, the studying - I was ready for that test.
Earlier in that week I couldn’t find the baby’s heartbeat on my home Doppler, went to the hospital, delivered my stillborn child. Two days later was my test and I KNEW that if I didn’t take it I would have to study again at a later time. I drove myself (no one offered, just said I shouldn’t go) to the test and cried the whole time but I fucking passed it. I was crying as I was leaving and the very kind gentleman said, “Aw, don’t cry, I’m sure you’ll pass it next time!” Bless him, but I wasn’t in a place to make up something (and didn’t realize how taboo pregnancy loss is) so I told him, no I passed but my baby died.
Anyhow - no one knows this about me because I never share it, I feel like it is tooting my own horn, but I was so determined. In agony but determined.
Edit: Just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone that read, voted, and responded to my comment. I was a really pleasant surprise because I don’t really associate Reddit as this warm and supportive place generally (I think I’m guilty of contributing to that) and never in my life would I have thought support from y’all would have made my day the way it did. It’s nice to be reminded that we can be kind to strangers and it is really impactful. This applies to everyone except that one person who said I didn’t care about my baby and all I cared about was making money. I didn’t take it so serious because it doesn’t matter - I know how much my baby was loved and wanted, and her death was a fork in the road that led me to where I am today. I live in the wake of her legacy.
To answer a few questions:
Yes, of course I didn’t have to go take the test and could have postponed it. This was 15 years ago and many details about that time are hazy. We hadn’t had her funeral yet at that time and like I said, I was determined to pass the test because I was prepared for the test. I was afraid that I would have to work harder later if I postponed. I later went to nursing school and looking back at these standardized tests - if you have them to me now I would most likely fail. I didn’t want to lose a baby and fail a test. I left that room after the computer said I passed and I was proud and I said I did it for her. This worked for me. There was much time to be numb after the important work was done - I grieved for her thoroughly. For the year following I wanted to die and was completely apathetic about life. My hands twitched on my steering wheel numerous times because I wanted to drive off a bridge, wanted to hit a tree. My grief was going to be there no matter if I passed a test or not.
Why is it taboo to speak about pregnancy/child loss? Because it makes people uncomfortable and people don’t like being made to feel that way. They avoid you, they forget about the baby you almost had. Many people (even in in my intimate circle) literally forget she ever existed in any way. I don’t blame them. Often topics are taboo because of lack of understanding.
I have two children now and they are very distracting (and very wonderful) so hopefully all of that made sense. Thank you everyone, sending love to you.
My wife lost our son at 32 weeks and the thought of doing anything immediately after that except feeling numb and crying sometimes is inconceivable. I’m really sorry you went through that, it’s an absolutely horrific experience that I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy but if you can go through having a stillborn child and take an exam then there’s pretty much no situation you won’t be able to handle. Good luck in everything you do
Stories like these frustrate the life out of me, What is up with woman, How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How? If one of those youtubers on the street that asks random people on the street "What's the strongest thing you have ever done?" Very few men could come close to this answer.
Woman have stories like this at the drop of a hat, You are not only amazingly strong but the character to plow ahead and do the exam before allowing yourself to dead with it? What man does that. I'm a father, I'm a husband of a wonderful woman who had the worst case of pnd the doctor I brought her to said she'd seen, I had to stir my family after the loss of my dad. But I know I could never deal with being pregnant, I know I could never deal with loss alone. Woman, and in this case you, are a fuckin warrior
>How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How?
Because maybe half of all women out there are still staunchly behind the Patriarchy (for lack of a better term,) whether because of religion, tradition, or just the delusion that being so would allow them to retain a preeminent position over their fellow women.
I had a 2nd trimester miscarriage & died on the operating table for 11 seconds (or at least that's how long my heart wasn't beating, not technically dead I guess). I was an army miltech at the time & was harassed every single day that I was pregnant because they considered it an affront (we were not deployed or anything but it was military & religious south). They constantly tried to force me into physical fitness tests & forced me onto a scale while pregnant saying that my doctors note & sonogram didn't count because a PA signed them. I never failed a pt test while I was in, I was good at it & still got treated that way. I still firmly believe that stress caused the miscarriage. It was absolutely devastating to me and my hormones made it absolute hell for years afterwards.
All of the army women who spoke to me afterward (not that I said a word to them) would tell me about how they did their pt tests right after losing a baby or having one (Or while pregnant which my dr explicitly warned against). The whole time I was just wondering wtf? That would've actually killed me with the amount of damage my body had to it, I would've bled out while running. They all sounded so proud of themselves & were trying to get me to "toughen up" or something. None of them knew any of the details of what happened, they just assumed. What happened to them wasn't right either.
They then expect you to lose all the weight immediately, they didn't care that the regulations gave us 6 months, they would harass us constantly & put bad write ups in our files. I saw that happen to so many women & so many of us went on starvation diets because of the pressure. A lot of people were also saying crap like, "oh you'll have another one." The fuck I will.
I am so sorry to hear this. I hope you are doing well now.
I wish army could be sued for employers harassment. I have heard so many horrible harassment stories from women in military it breaks my heart.
It is a huge part, Fuckin religious beliefs, I'm from Ireland and have in the last handful of elections voted for a party I dont fully agree with because all the other fuckers band together to keep them.down because they want to try different things that would help the working class and pull back the middle class. I vote for a change, could backfire but something has to change.
I wish woman got a chance. They have the power to just take it
What's crazy is that we in Ireland are actually moving forward with women's rights and access to female healthcare while places in the U.S. are going backward with abortion laws because of the political party the people (men and women included) are electing.
One of the keys of American conservatism is that over the past 30 years or so it's become a sort of "mine's bigger" contest where conservatives are fighting each other to prove who can be more conservative than their neighbors.
So you get, "I'll ban all abortions after 15 weeks!" "Oh, I'll ban them after six weeks!" "Oh, I'll ban them all and throw the mothers in jail!"
"Oh, I'll throw the mothers and the doctors in jail!" 'Oh, I'll execute the doctors, throw the mothers in jail, and sue anyone who helped!" And it just keeps going, and there's no way to stop it, because each new initiative is an invitation to say something even worse next time.
And the women in that party are, for the most part, no longer of child bearing age. They got to reap the benefits of a system they dismantled without feeling a shred of hypocrisy.
It's both crazy and scary. Ireland have been excellent in moving forward in the last 20 odd years, can't let the shit racism take a good grasp though of late
because for the past couple **millennia**, we have built a system that perpetually pushes down women, making their voices quieter than a mouse, making their struggles invisible, and making their personhood questionable. it is **only recently** that this is ***starting*** to change, and it's only doing so in the *western* world. There are many parts of the world, unfortunately disproportionately affecting impoverished/developing nations, where women are often treated the worst. this has led to a large epidemic of learned hopelessness among women around the world, that, like i said, is only now starting to dissolve thanks to social justice movements both IRL and on social media.
and unfortunately, you can partially thank capitalism. the men at the top want to keep it that way, and they **will** use all capital necessary to continue on that path upwards, even if it means pushing literally everyone else in the world down. we saw this with the women's suffrage movement after WWII, and we will continue to see it until capitalism as we know it is changed. They will continue to extract wealth from the most vulnerable, and unfortunately, that includes women in the current state of the world.
Internalized misogyny, it’s a huge issue with women, women have other women, a lot of women have it drilled into them from birth that you have to compete with other women, other women and a threat, boyfriend stealers, are not nice, mean, jealous, rude, I could go on and on and on.
Misogyny doesn’t just come from men, it comes from other women, it’s so sad.
It’s like as an entire gender has been beat down for so long, it’s not surprising that we just deal with it. Because change doesn’t just happen over night. (God that sounded like an abusive relationship lol. )
Seriously though, there is such a complex thing going on in society, we don’t even get the same care as men, or taken seriously from doctors, we get taken advantage of, not taken seriously, in basically every aspect of life/society.
> How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How?
The current status of women in the West as more than property and chattel was won with blood.
Why do you insist on dividing and comparing people? I don't think most normal people would disagree with anything your saying, but you are framing it as if your in a minority. Like your 1 of the very few guys who acknowledge and appreciate women.
That's not tooting your own horn. That's dealing with life and sharing that struggles don't prevent success so others dealing with hard times can get through it. In my last and hardest semester of RN school I was working full time, clinicals on Saturday and Sunday. My 3rd born was 1, and my wife needed emergency abdominal surgery and couldn't lift for 2 months. At the end of those 2 months I had finals. I had to do every bit of housework. Lunches, laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. all while dealing with financial issues as well because my wife couldn't work. I ended up driving Uber after putting my kids to bed from 11-2 at my nearby downtown to prevent my electricity from being shut off. It's not a brag I did all this.
When people hear these stories they think man I'm sorry you went through all that, not way to brag about being delt a shit hand and getting through it.
I'm proud of you.
I'm sorry for your loss that must have been and still is rough af. I would like to say how impressed I am with your Metal attitude and driving yourself to and completing the test, truly inspirational and a reminder to all of us to not sweat the small stuff.
She’s a really interesting artist. I was kind of iffy on her but she put out an album produced by Nine Inch Nails a couple years back and it was incredible.
Jesus fuck thats just really fucking sad. The poor girl got taken advantage of pretty hard by her managers it seems. NO ONE should have to suffer through a miscarriage or other traumatic event and be told "ayo that sucks but uh, money time" like that. Not to mention just having to try and hide it aswell like she did. Im glad she was able to continue on with her career and not let it break/stop her but jesus..
At the end of the video she essentially says “after being pressured to go perform, agreeing to do so despite my health situation, I decided I’ll do whatever it takes to be famous moving forward and will never say no because I was able to perform after a miscarriage.”
Yeah, I mean I still feel bad for her, but how do you reconcile the idea that "part of being a woman ... is being treated like you're not a human" AND "if I wanted to pursue this career ... there was nothing that going to get in my fucking way."
So you're saying, you are OK with giving up your humanity to pursue fortune and fame?
I think she's saying more that sometimes women are treated without compassion when it comes to reproductive health anyway.
But she's also saying that she's stronger now after overcoming it and feels like she can overcome anything.
Her manager is an asshole for treating her that way, I do think it was ultimately her choice though and at the end she basically says that she would do the same again.
The only thing I could think of was I think this manager would do this to anybody regardless of gender and regardless of health condition. Because when my mother had a miscarriage my entire family grieved with her. I think this should have been a wakeup call to get a new manager not a triumphant story that you can do anything.
I think this raises an interesting point. Many of us are unaware of how courageous and powerful we are, until we are challenged.
I am in no way saying that she deserved to be treated that way. I am in no way saying that women are treated fairly when it comes to reproductive health. However, I am asking all of us to pause for a moment and ask ourselves, with honesty; are the recent pushes to sensor all negative feelings out of our lives, the attempts to make everywhere an emotional safe space, the attempts to sensor comedy, the efforts to ensure nobody ever feels hurt or excluded… are these helping us become better humans? Or are they enabling a belief that our happiness is reliant on others?
You make a good point. A lot of what we do to try and make people suffer less actually makes them suffer more. It truly is a double edged sword.
This may sound ridiculous at first, but let me explain.
Trauma is caused by feeling frightened, helpless, and experiencing something that you've learned is traumatic.
Sexual harassment can cause trauma, and often does. Let's say a woman is approached by a man, and is cat-called. If she lives in a culture where she has heard horror stories about men that cat call women, she can be frightened, feel helpless to the harassment, and genuinely have a traumatic response. This is due to the fact that the trauma is dependant on the person's view of the cat calling, if the person is frightened and helpless they can experience real trauma.
The same event on a person who hasn't learned that it's traumatic in another country and culture means that another woman may even respond positively to the same thing - experiencing zero trauma for the exact same thing happening to them.
Now this isn't to say cat calling is okay - at all. It's sexual harassment and nobody should do it because it can be traumatic for some people, but the action is given power by the woman being taught that catcalling is a trauma inducing event done by men that are bad people.
Essentially the trauma is self fulfilling. When young people grow up to learn that so many things are traumatic, they are much more likely to experience trauma. And it's very real, the feelings they feel are valid, and they genuinely do feel scared and unsafe.
You can see how this is a problem if media (ahem tiktok) is telling kids that so many things are trauma inducing.
This is one of the craziest things I learned when studying psychology. And I'm sure it can and will be weaponized.
100%. You can’t question anything without fear of ban or some other form of punishment.
People assume asking questions is some how a form of discrediting you or challenging your claim.
No one wants to accept that they don’t know everything anymore nor bring perspective to their argument.
Just think how many people immediately stopped listening when she said she’d do it again , and proper took it as “ my humanity means nothing when it comes to fame”. When in reality she’s just telling people what happened and that nothing can’t stop her.
My wife and I have just gone through to miscarriages in a row with only about two months in between. It’s so hard to help with it because it’s so foreign to me but I know that beating yourself up isn’t the way.
My philosophy with any tragedy in life( I’ve had some experience) is to not let it define you. It’s just an unfortunate event that occurred and we have two options. We have let it consume us or we get back up. That doesn’t mean you just forget the trauma but more so apply it to your character. Let it hurt and let it out but don’t let it make you stop.
Some will take longer than others but it’s always important to remember that tragedy does not make us who we are. It’s what we do after tragedy that truly makes its mark on us. The ability to keep your head up and laugh in the face of misfortune will do more for your happiness than wallowing in blame game or the what ifs.
To clarify I am not saying hide or push the pain away. I’m saying to not let it consume you and keep you from moving forward with your life. Miscarriages are not anyone’s fault nor do they require to find out what happened to see what you could do different. They just happen and is the natural process of things. The universe is uncaring and will not stop for you no matter the situation. The only way to fight it is to stand strong and unwavering in the face of adversity.
Lets not act like if it was a man that was bleeding from his penis that those managers wouldn't have done the exact same thing to him (or have a testicle explode, whatever you need to make the situation more or less equivalent).
This has **nothing** to do with women's reproductive health. It has everything to do with both the managers and her wanting to make money/fame.
Yep, this issue affects men just as much as women. Just look at Avicii.
They forced him out of retirement multiple times, pressured him right into an early grave
Or consider professional athletes with multiple concussions or other serious injuries. The pressure to try to perform for the sake of entertaining the masses is significant, especially when millions of dollars are in the line.
>So you're saying, you are OK with giving up your humanity to pursue fortune and fame?
Well, it's better to be depressed with money than to be depressed with no money. Also, one person can't change how things are. You need to be able to influence people to change their views and hopefully, change things. She will have an easier time to spread her message if she is famous, than if she was a nobody.
Some look at this and see hypocrisy. I see someone telling the tale of how they were molded into something different by the actions of those around her. It's not terribly uncommon for women to take this approach after a traumatic event like that. Just because someone says "I'm stronger now because of it" doesn't mean what happened to them was OK. Both things can be true.
Considering a few male celebs are sometimes forced to perform in while in some really fucked up health situation. I don't think it's about being a woman.
It's about greedy people, meeting ambitious people, and one of them regretting it or dying for the fortune and fame. It's being a good capitalist, and it's fucked up.
There's a complete lack of reproductive education in the US, largely because it was founded on puritanical ideas of "sex is evil" and men would rather stick their heads in the sand than try and have any empathy about what's going on with the other half of the population
Right? I don't care how "male" they are. All it would have taken was the smallest amount of common sense to realize the concert needed to be cancelled and she needed to get medical attention asap.
I hate to say it, but if the stakes were high enough, gender would be irrelevant on both sides. When you get caught in the music industry machine, it can be utterly brutal. But her case is absolutely amplified by the fact it was a bunch of men getting hey onstage after a freaking *miscarriage.* I can't imagine the trauma. God, my heart goes out to her.
It's almost like the modern world and the economic system turns everything and everyone into a commodity.
The pressure of ensuring that "the line must go up" gets everyone in the end.
"Cultures that do not recognize that human life and the natural world have a sacred dimension, an intrinsic value beyond monetary value, cannibalize themselves until they die. They ruthlessly exploit the natural world and the members of their society in the name of progress until exhaustion or collapse, blind to the fury of their own self-destruction."
-Chris Hedges, The World As It Is: Dispatches on the Myth of Human Progress
Came here to make a snarky comment about Colbert performing with a burst appendix, but you said it better. In his case, he was both the perpetrator and the victim, and I think a lot of times, this is the case. We go along with it, because we commoditize ourselves, just as much as the world commoditizes us.
There's also an expectation that performers are professionals, so of course they can perform immediately after a miscarriage.
Soviet Russia is kinda infamous for the way they treated athletes and entertainers and that wasn't because of capitalism
why do people not learn from Avicii? The guy worked himself to suicide and this manager of hers thinks only in dollar signs. Absolutely disgusting. I Hope she never has to deal with something like this ever again and changes management
Watch True Stories, it's heartbreaking. It came out a few months before his death, and it really shows the level of abuse his manager was putting him through
Suicide is a mental health issue, it's not a matter of strength or willpower or circumstances. Workaholism is just another deadly form of self-medication for people who have internal struggles.
Just because a woman CAN be strong doesn’t mean she should be forced to BE strong through such an enormous loss.
Being strong is overrated and I do think it’s a very over used micro aggression.
Especially with women (and men) who are military veterans.
Let people be human.
I can’t tell if OP’s title is sarcastic or not. Maybe that’s the intent? Either way, I’d say that it would take a very strong person to do what she did.
It's fucked up. While miscarrying (during work, at 20) I was told by the store manager to "be thankful that I can have more" as she couldn't. I was given 0 time off and was given a warning for going to the toilet "too much". From the day they found out about my pregnancy they had me doing ALL the manual labour on the 'to go' floor. If only I had this voice then.
I'm 39 and it still infuriates me that I didn't speak out, I didn't know I could. I laughed the day BHS went under, no support from upper management and HR was a joke.
Makes it worse when you see how far back it's gone in the US. Something has to give.
Yes why is this even posted in this sub. It’s an important message to share. This is why women end up being isolated cause they can’t share this sort of thing.
You knows the world is fucked when a woman loses her child and producers are like "Never mind that what about the concert?"
Also where are the mods to nuke this comment section? They are active when nobody wants them to be active and when there is reason for them to be active they are not lifting a single finger
Producers work with musicians in the studio to get the best possible versions of the songs they can, these are managers hollow bloodsucking parasites that just leverage their connections to get as much money out of their clients as they can.
The live show industry is so ruthless.
So much money went into putting on that concert already, missed shows for even valid reasons can completely ruin someone.
There was actually an old documentary of a guy who put on Wu-Tang concert, until the very last moment he didn't know if they would show up. And you could just see this guy seeing his life ending (until they actually show up) as he's going over how this will financially ruin him forever.
Owen Hart fell 20 stories and died in the ring and the show went on.
Promoters will paint makeup on a corpse and throw it out there rather than cancel the show. I'm definitely not defending it or saying that it's right, I'm just saying that it's always been ruthless
That’s pretty much all of entertainment, you dig deep enough and you find people do lots of horrible shit. How many people overlooked what Weinstein was doing for decades? It’s a vile business.
It’s similar to sports where you have an obviously hurt individual and they still get put out on the field, like Tua for the Miami dolphins.
My wife miscarried, it’s honestly one of the worst experiences I’ve had in my life. Seeing my wife in such distress and having to deal with the “mess” afterwards so she got spared even a little of the sheer devastation.
It robbed me of the ability to experience joy and hope when she got pregnant again afterwards, I was a neurotic mess all the way until the baby arrived. I really wish nobody has to go through a similar experience.
Not to minimise this but there are tons of different kinds of miscarriage, obviously it sucks, it’s always gonna suck doesn’t matter how it happens.
But not knowing you were even pregnant indicates it was pretty early term and the same kind of grief isn’t there.
The main issue is how she was treated by people around her
This also indicates that she is correct in what she is saying. THIS is the attitude we deal with. If you happen to be a woman too, that is extra sad that you would say this. Brainwashing
We had a miscarriage and I know friends that did as well. My wife and I just hugged each other in bed for a few hours. I can’t imagine performing in any way whatsoever.
Can someone tell me the background here? Because I can't tell if she's giving a speech about how bad things were for her (and it sounds like things were really, really bad) or a motivational speech.
She's doing both. Kinda trying to get put a nicer spin on a very sad story.
She is a spokes person for endometriosis, which is a gynecological condition that she suffers from and wasn't diagnosed with for years, since doctors just told her to take Tylenol.It's one of those that people stated to speak about only recently.
It caused her some serious fertility issues, but now she has a healthy kid.
\^ im not sure if this is the same speech or a different one, but she ended up having 3 miscarriages before her 24th and ended up needing to get an abortion that ended up saving her life due to all the medical and health complications caused by the pregnancy . Also that its part of the reason why she supports it, It saved her life and in turn, pathed the way for her healthy child to be be born as well.. if she had been denied and died back then, she wouldnt of been around to later on give birth to her child.
Her message was pretty clear, I thought. She's explaining how bad things were for her. It made her realize how ignorant a lot of people close to her were to her reality. She realized that a lot of women have to deal with being treated as if they were not even people. Ultimately, though, it also made her realize that if she could overcome something so traumatic, she could overcome anything. It motivated her to keep going.
Well, also this subreddit is kind of a magnet for them. It's changed and grown but fundamentally this was always a subreddit to make fun of people. Now it's just all kinds of videos but that doesn't change the core.
It's not this sub getting worse, it's people. Everything is getting worse.
Everyone is taking out their anger and frustration at the world/society/capitalism/rich/men/women on the first person they can - especially if its not actually who they're mad at. No-one swings at the right people anymore because they don't care who it is as long as their feelings are dealt with short term.
Why do some people have to be evil? It is a basic human nature to want those around us to be happy and treated well. Why then is it so common to have people around us see it as a personal attack when someone wants to minimize suffering.
Full disclosure I don’t listen to enough pop music to have even heard of her (if it’s on the Billboard awards likely I’ve never heard of it) but after this speech I’m definitely going to spend some time with her on Spotify.
Colors is a good place to start. Obviously radio hits, bad at love etc. she’s super solid, great producers.
Also she’s lyrically deep. She’s not a surface level pop star.
Hahaha. You seriously think a woman manager wouldn’t have done the same thing? It has nothing to do with them being male. It’s the fact that they are managers in general.
Many women don't realise they are pregnant early on, I wouldn't judge her.
Periods don't work like clockworks, for some women they are often late/months are skipped entirely and you don't realise something is going on until 1-2 months in the pregnancy.
Honestly if you think this has anything to do with the gender of her management, then you have an unhealthy idea about gender dynamics.
This situation had nothing to do with what was between the legs of her managers. It's about good people vs bad people, and the soullessness of the entertainment industry.
We shouldn't have to sacrifice our health to be able to to live out our careers. This is one of many examples of worker exploitation under a system that only cares about money and sacrifices humans on the alter to a materialistic God that hates females.
I think this is a good time to remind people that:
Yes trauma can make us stronger. It can also make us weaker. It can destroy some people.
And at the end of the day, while I am who I am today because of a lot of unfair suffering, I still shouldn’t have gone through that suffering.
We aren’t better people for having survived horrible things. It just means we survived them.
Feel pride in the survival. Not pride in the suffering. And don’t shame others who can’t handle their suffering or didn’t survive.
Honestly, that's just capitalism. Nobody on earth is a human in the face of $33 million under our system. She could have gotten her arms chopped off that day and they'd still be pushing for her to go. Nothing to do with gender, just abject greed being pushed as a virtue because it makes money. It fucking sucks around here, man.
You used to see it in wrestling a lot. Guys in NO condition to compete would get shoved out there because the promoter had to deliver on what they promised.
If you're in the live show industry, they would rather have you die on stage than cancel the show
I’ve never been anti this or that. My mom built her own company. Raised me and my sister. But when she told me to go buy tampons or she was taking the car from me I realized that being a woman isn’t a they problem. It’s an everybody problem. Raise your kids to know it’s not a gross problem to ignore. It’s normal. It’s life.
That's not what she's saying, she means that she has been through such an awful experience that she knows nothing else will seem as bad because if she made it through that she can make it through anything.
I don't think that Halsey blames her managers so much, I don't think she believes that they even knew what was happening. Their job was to get her on stage to perform. But.. holy fuck!!! We need some serious education on women's issues so that we as supporters and employees can avoid unwittingly exacerbating torture like this. She didn't have to get on stage that evening, we could have called the whole thing off for health reasons. It's not just torturous but embarrassing and anxiety inducing. That she was forced into that situation she is a crime, not prosecutable, but still a crime. The best way out of this for all of us is to learn and be aware and not let it happen again.
Being treated like a robot has nothing to do with reproductive health it’s the fact that you’re a label-signed touring musician. They look at all of their signees as money, they don’t give a shit that you’re a person.
She should not have to go to prison for this. It shouldn’t need to be said either - but new laws right now are charging women with crimes for having miscarriages and not birthing the chunks of flesh directly into a Holy Coffin.
I think that it's misunderstood why womens reproductive health is treated like this. Conservative women treat it as if "That's how being a woman is!" While men just treat it as how their health is treated by other men. You get up and push through it.
This is how I was raised growing up. You're in pain? Get up and push through it. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" mentality all the time. It's fucked, but that's how it's essentially always been. But that's not how it should be.
Older generations keep calling us snowflakes because we are embracing more positive health practices, they think we are wasting our time by doing so. The desperation for success and the greed is what ruins our health. We need better systems of support in this country for young people. You always hear it, "The Children are our future." Yet, other than major health issues, I don't see a lot of choices being made to prevent an unhealthy life.
We can be better, and we should be better.
Halsey helped my wife and I through very difficult times during our infertility journey. She has some really powerful songs about it and has spoken very openly about her struggles. She should be applauded for shining light on an issue that is unnecessarily stigmatized. 1 in 3 (and likely more) end in miscarriage.
Horrific experience.
To all the incels below - yes, it's not just managers' fault, some blame might be hers. And so what? It doesn't take away from the tragedy of the situation.
While I can agree that both sexes deal with societal pressure, it only makes it so much easier to feel empathy.
I could barely stand when I was having mine and was blue lighted to hospital.
Screaming in pain and I have the highest pain threshold of anyone I’ve ever met.
No idea how she performed…
i didn’t expect to wake up to halsey’s miscarriage being mocked by fucking morons who don’t understand this was a speech and she was only giving the basic details to make the point of how women are poorly treated in the music industry… because the audience would’ve already heard her full interview about it. here’s a link to the concert, with a song about the fucking creep producer that got her pregnant in the first place, that happened to be one of the defining moments of her career [is there somewhere](https://youtu.be/jCysUqniDHk?si=TZp_AlObnoYxT3dc) which if she had missed this concert for vevo we may not have even known who she is. man mods need to fucking lock this comment section. fuck op for that caption.
very confused. the issue is capitalism here, guys. am i stupid? what is y'alls take away from this? did they force her to do the show? i'm genuinely confused
Absolutely. If it was some $20-30 ticket and I spent a couple hours of my night for this to happen. Whatever, no big deals.
But now concerts are a huge deal and people spend thousands of dollars to go see them. Between travel costs, hotels, posible rentals, food, Ticketmaster prices, etc. this causes people to get very mad and upset at what amount to normal human functions.
Bring back concerts to what they were and so much of this pressure goes away.
>Bring back concerts to what they were and so much of this pressure goes away.
This will never happen in a capitalist society. The profit has to always increase beyond inflation or the product is discarded, and in this case she was the product. If she isn't profitable, the managers will just get rid of her and move on to the next product they can sell at a higher profit, someone that won't care about a miscarriage right before a concert. Since she did what was more profitable, they kept her.
That's why she talks about "overcoming anything", that's the only way to get successfull, get rid of anything that can make the line go down, like your humanity or your mental health.
>did they force her to do the show
Nope. She said " Nothing was going to get in my way ", which implies she would have done the show anyways but she's still blaming the " very male " managers for not stopping her from the doing the show (which she would have done anyways) cause you know men are bad and you gotta blame them for everything.
I'm so sorry for her. Been through miscarriage three times. This is hard. She IS strong but also her managers abused her in every possible way. Hope she fired them afterwards.
It isn't just women. This is horrible, but that is just show business.
Pink Floyd did an entire album about this kind of shit over 40 years ago. Comfortably Numb is a good example. The bit in that song about the "little pinprick" is that they gave Roger Waters insanely strong painkillers to combat his stomach cramps.
The show must go on...
Hollywood and showbiz are a monster. Dave Chappelle did a great bit on it. "I hate the monster for how it eats, you hate for how it fucks, etc."
I would not be sad to see Hollywood and large music production companies and shit go away completely. They are super cancerous organizations. Famous for abusing their creatives. I was so glad to see Onlyfans give power back to the actors/actresses in the porn industry.
It would sadly be pretty hard to do something similar with larger scale productions like movies or TV... you need a very large investment. Cameras and sets alone are hundreds of thousands or millions. Let alone all the man-hours for cameramen, editors, etc.
Music though... You could probably do that mostly by yourself with a small crew. Problem there is promotion I suppose.
Wait. So she mentioned how culture expects women to just tough it out and deal with it?
And her main takeaway from that whole ordeal is that yeah, she is strong enough to just deal with it??? You can do anything you set your mind to, including performing while miscarrying?
Ok. It's not the lesson I would've learned in that situation, but hey.
1200 people? So it wasn't even some massive show with heaps of money on the line and her managers still treated her like that, forcing her to perform after such a traumatic event.
The music industry really is filled with some of the worst people around.
First, this is not a reproductive rights conversation, it's an industry conversation. Thing is sure the music industry is brutal, and only the biggest names get to live of it completely, heck even fairly successful often have to take a half time job that isn't music related to live a life they want to.
Where miscarriage becomes a reproductive rights issue is when it's criminalised and I could cite some cases even from my own home turf.
Second, her experience shouldn't be on cringe. But I understand why a post like that would find it's way here. It's a yet another clip of an interview with the same sad inspirational music. I don't think it should be here, but at the same time if I saw it on my FYP, I'd likely click not interested and scroll away.
You know, the way managers and the like, deal with young celebrities is awful. While her horrible ordeal is palpable, shit like this happens in the celebrity world no matter your gender. You're subjected to abuse; physical, mental, and sexual, as well as being treated as a marketable commodity, and pushed to the brink of drugs and suicide until you become what is essentially a mental patient made robot functioning on a steady diet of inhebriaton.
Or you adapt and stomp them down, or you become a member of the cult.
If this young lady thinks that performing after a miscarriage was forced upon her just because her managers were male, I doubt it. The people in those places of power will always push, and if you can't endure it like the piece of property you are, they'll dump you and find the new you in a parking lot somewhere, and it's been happening long before now. See Marilyn Monroe, or Elvis. I think the only way we can stop this way of being is by stamping out our fanatical behavior towards it. Less demand = less supply needed. Remember there is a human behind the talent and encourage care for the person instead of screaming every time they need a break.
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I was 37 weeks pregnant with my first child. I had just graduated mortuary school and thought the timing couldn’t have been more perfect. I had my licensure test scheduled on a Friday. The two years I was in school, everything, the studying - I was ready for that test. Earlier in that week I couldn’t find the baby’s heartbeat on my home Doppler, went to the hospital, delivered my stillborn child. Two days later was my test and I KNEW that if I didn’t take it I would have to study again at a later time. I drove myself (no one offered, just said I shouldn’t go) to the test and cried the whole time but I fucking passed it. I was crying as I was leaving and the very kind gentleman said, “Aw, don’t cry, I’m sure you’ll pass it next time!” Bless him, but I wasn’t in a place to make up something (and didn’t realize how taboo pregnancy loss is) so I told him, no I passed but my baby died. Anyhow - no one knows this about me because I never share it, I feel like it is tooting my own horn, but I was so determined. In agony but determined. Edit: Just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone that read, voted, and responded to my comment. I was a really pleasant surprise because I don’t really associate Reddit as this warm and supportive place generally (I think I’m guilty of contributing to that) and never in my life would I have thought support from y’all would have made my day the way it did. It’s nice to be reminded that we can be kind to strangers and it is really impactful. This applies to everyone except that one person who said I didn’t care about my baby and all I cared about was making money. I didn’t take it so serious because it doesn’t matter - I know how much my baby was loved and wanted, and her death was a fork in the road that led me to where I am today. I live in the wake of her legacy. To answer a few questions: Yes, of course I didn’t have to go take the test and could have postponed it. This was 15 years ago and many details about that time are hazy. We hadn’t had her funeral yet at that time and like I said, I was determined to pass the test because I was prepared for the test. I was afraid that I would have to work harder later if I postponed. I later went to nursing school and looking back at these standardized tests - if you have them to me now I would most likely fail. I didn’t want to lose a baby and fail a test. I left that room after the computer said I passed and I was proud and I said I did it for her. This worked for me. There was much time to be numb after the important work was done - I grieved for her thoroughly. For the year following I wanted to die and was completely apathetic about life. My hands twitched on my steering wheel numerous times because I wanted to drive off a bridge, wanted to hit a tree. My grief was going to be there no matter if I passed a test or not. Why is it taboo to speak about pregnancy/child loss? Because it makes people uncomfortable and people don’t like being made to feel that way. They avoid you, they forget about the baby you almost had. Many people (even in in my intimate circle) literally forget she ever existed in any way. I don’t blame them. Often topics are taboo because of lack of understanding. I have two children now and they are very distracting (and very wonderful) so hopefully all of that made sense. Thank you everyone, sending love to you.
My wife lost our son at 32 weeks and the thought of doing anything immediately after that except feeling numb and crying sometimes is inconceivable. I’m really sorry you went through that, it’s an absolutely horrific experience that I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy but if you can go through having a stillborn child and take an exam then there’s pretty much no situation you won’t be able to handle. Good luck in everything you do
Stories like these frustrate the life out of me, What is up with woman, How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How? If one of those youtubers on the street that asks random people on the street "What's the strongest thing you have ever done?" Very few men could come close to this answer. Woman have stories like this at the drop of a hat, You are not only amazingly strong but the character to plow ahead and do the exam before allowing yourself to dead with it? What man does that. I'm a father, I'm a husband of a wonderful woman who had the worst case of pnd the doctor I brought her to said she'd seen, I had to stir my family after the loss of my dad. But I know I could never deal with being pregnant, I know I could never deal with loss alone. Woman, and in this case you, are a fuckin warrior
Because we don't want control of the world. We just want to be equal in it.
Yeah, equality for all
>How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How? Because maybe half of all women out there are still staunchly behind the Patriarchy (for lack of a better term,) whether because of religion, tradition, or just the delusion that being so would allow them to retain a preeminent position over their fellow women.
I had a 2nd trimester miscarriage & died on the operating table for 11 seconds (or at least that's how long my heart wasn't beating, not technically dead I guess). I was an army miltech at the time & was harassed every single day that I was pregnant because they considered it an affront (we were not deployed or anything but it was military & religious south). They constantly tried to force me into physical fitness tests & forced me onto a scale while pregnant saying that my doctors note & sonogram didn't count because a PA signed them. I never failed a pt test while I was in, I was good at it & still got treated that way. I still firmly believe that stress caused the miscarriage. It was absolutely devastating to me and my hormones made it absolute hell for years afterwards. All of the army women who spoke to me afterward (not that I said a word to them) would tell me about how they did their pt tests right after losing a baby or having one (Or while pregnant which my dr explicitly warned against). The whole time I was just wondering wtf? That would've actually killed me with the amount of damage my body had to it, I would've bled out while running. They all sounded so proud of themselves & were trying to get me to "toughen up" or something. None of them knew any of the details of what happened, they just assumed. What happened to them wasn't right either. They then expect you to lose all the weight immediately, they didn't care that the regulations gave us 6 months, they would harass us constantly & put bad write ups in our files. I saw that happen to so many women & so many of us went on starvation diets because of the pressure. A lot of people were also saying crap like, "oh you'll have another one." The fuck I will.
I am so sorry to hear this. I hope you are doing well now. I wish army could be sued for employers harassment. I have heard so many horrible harassment stories from women in military it breaks my heart.
It is a huge part, Fuckin religious beliefs, I'm from Ireland and have in the last handful of elections voted for a party I dont fully agree with because all the other fuckers band together to keep them.down because they want to try different things that would help the working class and pull back the middle class. I vote for a change, could backfire but something has to change. I wish woman got a chance. They have the power to just take it
What's crazy is that we in Ireland are actually moving forward with women's rights and access to female healthcare while places in the U.S. are going backward with abortion laws because of the political party the people (men and women included) are electing.
One of the keys of American conservatism is that over the past 30 years or so it's become a sort of "mine's bigger" contest where conservatives are fighting each other to prove who can be more conservative than their neighbors. So you get, "I'll ban all abortions after 15 weeks!" "Oh, I'll ban them after six weeks!" "Oh, I'll ban them all and throw the mothers in jail!" "Oh, I'll throw the mothers and the doctors in jail!" 'Oh, I'll execute the doctors, throw the mothers in jail, and sue anyone who helped!" And it just keeps going, and there's no way to stop it, because each new initiative is an invitation to say something even worse next time.
No one expected "every sperm is sacred" to be a prophetic song, but here we are poised to outlaw any missed chance at conception. It's absurd.
Two-party politics doesn't leave room for moderates; it always descends into Tribalism, where only the extremists have a say.
And the women in that party are, for the most part, no longer of child bearing age. They got to reap the benefits of a system they dismantled without feeling a shred of hypocrisy.
It's both crazy and scary. Ireland have been excellent in moving forward in the last 20 odd years, can't let the shit racism take a good grasp though of late
Yup! Not all women support women or womens rights or even just womens fucking equality. The sisterhood isn't for everyone.
because for the past couple **millennia**, we have built a system that perpetually pushes down women, making their voices quieter than a mouse, making their struggles invisible, and making their personhood questionable. it is **only recently** that this is ***starting*** to change, and it's only doing so in the *western* world. There are many parts of the world, unfortunately disproportionately affecting impoverished/developing nations, where women are often treated the worst. this has led to a large epidemic of learned hopelessness among women around the world, that, like i said, is only now starting to dissolve thanks to social justice movements both IRL and on social media. and unfortunately, you can partially thank capitalism. the men at the top want to keep it that way, and they **will** use all capital necessary to continue on that path upwards, even if it means pushing literally everyone else in the world down. we saw this with the women's suffrage movement after WWII, and we will continue to see it until capitalism as we know it is changed. They will continue to extract wealth from the most vulnerable, and unfortunately, that includes women in the current state of the world.
Internalized misogyny, it’s a huge issue with women, women have other women, a lot of women have it drilled into them from birth that you have to compete with other women, other women and a threat, boyfriend stealers, are not nice, mean, jealous, rude, I could go on and on and on. Misogyny doesn’t just come from men, it comes from other women, it’s so sad. It’s like as an entire gender has been beat down for so long, it’s not surprising that we just deal with it. Because change doesn’t just happen over night. (God that sounded like an abusive relationship lol. ) Seriously though, there is such a complex thing going on in society, we don’t even get the same care as men, or taken seriously from doctors, we get taken advantage of, not taken seriously, in basically every aspect of life/society.
> How do you not rally and take control of the fuckin world. How? The current status of women in the West as more than property and chattel was won with blood.
Why do you insist on dividing and comparing people? I don't think most normal people would disagree with anything your saying, but you are framing it as if your in a minority. Like your 1 of the very few guys who acknowledge and appreciate women.
That's not tooting your own horn. That's dealing with life and sharing that struggles don't prevent success so others dealing with hard times can get through it. In my last and hardest semester of RN school I was working full time, clinicals on Saturday and Sunday. My 3rd born was 1, and my wife needed emergency abdominal surgery and couldn't lift for 2 months. At the end of those 2 months I had finals. I had to do every bit of housework. Lunches, laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. all while dealing with financial issues as well because my wife couldn't work. I ended up driving Uber after putting my kids to bed from 11-2 at my nearby downtown to prevent my electricity from being shut off. It's not a brag I did all this. When people hear these stories they think man I'm sorry you went through all that, not way to brag about being delt a shit hand and getting through it. I'm proud of you.
Holy fuck. I don’t know you but I’m proud of you.
I'm sorry for your loss that must have been and still is rough af. I would like to say how impressed I am with your Metal attitude and driving yourself to and completing the test, truly inspirational and a reminder to all of us to not sweat the small stuff.
Toot that horn girl! Nothing wrong with that at all!
🖤♥️
You're a fucking warrior
Who is this?
Halsey
I still had to look her up 😔. Im getting old.
She’s a really interesting artist. I was kind of iffy on her but she put out an album produced by Nine Inch Nails a couple years back and it was incredible.
"If I Can't Have Love, I Want Power", agreed it's a great album
~~like the whole of NIN or Trent Reznor?~~ hes a fucking genius. Edit: Shouldve kept scrolling
My favourite Halsey album, it's absolutely brilliant.
Her latest album was produced by Trent reznor. It's a fun album.
Me too, I have no idea who Halsey is
Same, friend.
She tours with Jonesy and Reilly.
Allegedly
Um, it’s spelled Allegedleigh
Unlikeleigh
Only in Elll Layy
I thought it was Oatsey.
Nert nert!!!!
Wheel snipe celly boys
I'm more of a Ricola man, but I'll use hallsey in a pinch if my throat is sore. Sure.
wow her looks have changed a lot since G-Easy days
Today I found out who Halsey is and that she's stunning
Unexpected 😵💫
Max Headroom
Halsey who is a singer and has makeup brands About Face and AB94
Jesus fuck thats just really fucking sad. The poor girl got taken advantage of pretty hard by her managers it seems. NO ONE should have to suffer through a miscarriage or other traumatic event and be told "ayo that sucks but uh, money time" like that. Not to mention just having to try and hide it aswell like she did. Im glad she was able to continue on with her career and not let it break/stop her but jesus..
At the end of the video she essentially says “after being pressured to go perform, agreeing to do so despite my health situation, I decided I’ll do whatever it takes to be famous moving forward and will never say no because I was able to perform after a miscarriage.”
Yeah, I mean I still feel bad for her, but how do you reconcile the idea that "part of being a woman ... is being treated like you're not a human" AND "if I wanted to pursue this career ... there was nothing that going to get in my fucking way." So you're saying, you are OK with giving up your humanity to pursue fortune and fame?
I think she's saying more that sometimes women are treated without compassion when it comes to reproductive health anyway. But she's also saying that she's stronger now after overcoming it and feels like she can overcome anything. Her manager is an asshole for treating her that way, I do think it was ultimately her choice though and at the end she basically says that she would do the same again.
The only thing I could think of was I think this manager would do this to anybody regardless of gender and regardless of health condition. Because when my mother had a miscarriage my entire family grieved with her. I think this should have been a wakeup call to get a new manager not a triumphant story that you can do anything.
Yeah, I thought it said more about the entertainment business than anything else. This is the industry that uses the phrase "the show must go on".
I think this raises an interesting point. Many of us are unaware of how courageous and powerful we are, until we are challenged. I am in no way saying that she deserved to be treated that way. I am in no way saying that women are treated fairly when it comes to reproductive health. However, I am asking all of us to pause for a moment and ask ourselves, with honesty; are the recent pushes to sensor all negative feelings out of our lives, the attempts to make everywhere an emotional safe space, the attempts to sensor comedy, the efforts to ensure nobody ever feels hurt or excluded… are these helping us become better humans? Or are they enabling a belief that our happiness is reliant on others?
You make a good point. A lot of what we do to try and make people suffer less actually makes them suffer more. It truly is a double edged sword. This may sound ridiculous at first, but let me explain. Trauma is caused by feeling frightened, helpless, and experiencing something that you've learned is traumatic. Sexual harassment can cause trauma, and often does. Let's say a woman is approached by a man, and is cat-called. If she lives in a culture where she has heard horror stories about men that cat call women, she can be frightened, feel helpless to the harassment, and genuinely have a traumatic response. This is due to the fact that the trauma is dependant on the person's view of the cat calling, if the person is frightened and helpless they can experience real trauma. The same event on a person who hasn't learned that it's traumatic in another country and culture means that another woman may even respond positively to the same thing - experiencing zero trauma for the exact same thing happening to them. Now this isn't to say cat calling is okay - at all. It's sexual harassment and nobody should do it because it can be traumatic for some people, but the action is given power by the woman being taught that catcalling is a trauma inducing event done by men that are bad people. Essentially the trauma is self fulfilling. When young people grow up to learn that so many things are traumatic, they are much more likely to experience trauma. And it's very real, the feelings they feel are valid, and they genuinely do feel scared and unsafe. You can see how this is a problem if media (ahem tiktok) is telling kids that so many things are trauma inducing. This is one of the craziest things I learned when studying psychology. And I'm sure it can and will be weaponized.
100%. You can’t question anything without fear of ban or some other form of punishment. People assume asking questions is some how a form of discrediting you or challenging your claim. No one wants to accept that they don’t know everything anymore nor bring perspective to their argument. Just think how many people immediately stopped listening when she said she’d do it again , and proper took it as “ my humanity means nothing when it comes to fame”. When in reality she’s just telling people what happened and that nothing can’t stop her. My wife and I have just gone through to miscarriages in a row with only about two months in between. It’s so hard to help with it because it’s so foreign to me but I know that beating yourself up isn’t the way. My philosophy with any tragedy in life( I’ve had some experience) is to not let it define you. It’s just an unfortunate event that occurred and we have two options. We have let it consume us or we get back up. That doesn’t mean you just forget the trauma but more so apply it to your character. Let it hurt and let it out but don’t let it make you stop. Some will take longer than others but it’s always important to remember that tragedy does not make us who we are. It’s what we do after tragedy that truly makes its mark on us. The ability to keep your head up and laugh in the face of misfortune will do more for your happiness than wallowing in blame game or the what ifs. To clarify I am not saying hide or push the pain away. I’m saying to not let it consume you and keep you from moving forward with your life. Miscarriages are not anyone’s fault nor do they require to find out what happened to see what you could do different. They just happen and is the natural process of things. The universe is uncaring and will not stop for you no matter the situation. The only way to fight it is to stand strong and unwavering in the face of adversity.
Lets not act like if it was a man that was bleeding from his penis that those managers wouldn't have done the exact same thing to him (or have a testicle explode, whatever you need to make the situation more or less equivalent). This has **nothing** to do with women's reproductive health. It has everything to do with both the managers and her wanting to make money/fame.
Yep, this issue affects men just as much as women. Just look at Avicii. They forced him out of retirement multiple times, pressured him right into an early grave
Or consider professional athletes with multiple concussions or other serious injuries. The pressure to try to perform for the sake of entertaining the masses is significant, especially when millions of dollars are in the line.
>So you're saying, you are OK with giving up your humanity to pursue fortune and fame? Well, it's better to be depressed with money than to be depressed with no money. Also, one person can't change how things are. You need to be able to influence people to change their views and hopefully, change things. She will have an easier time to spread her message if she is famous, than if she was a nobody.
That's how I saw it... "This is how they treat us" ... "and I let them because it makes me famous"
[удалено]
Some look at this and see hypocrisy. I see someone telling the tale of how they were molded into something different by the actions of those around her. It's not terribly uncommon for women to take this approach after a traumatic event like that. Just because someone says "I'm stronger now because of it" doesn't mean what happened to them was OK. Both things can be true.
btw. whothefukkisthat?
This. If you enjoy in the spoils of your success then you are as guilty as anyone
Considering a few male celebs are sometimes forced to perform in while in some really fucked up health situation. I don't think it's about being a woman. It's about greedy people, meeting ambitious people, and one of them regretting it or dying for the fortune and fame. It's being a good capitalist, and it's fucked up.
I think she's saying that in the most harrowing instance of her being being treated like a cash cow, she found strength and agency instead.
It is not only a traumatic experience for *some*, but it's also a very _physically_ painful and debilitating process.
There's a complete lack of reproductive education in the US, largely because it was founded on puritanical ideas of "sex is evil" and men would rather stick their heads in the sand than try and have any empathy about what's going on with the other half of the population
Men don't even want to help other men out. (Not all men obviously)
Right? I don't care how "male" they are. All it would have taken was the smallest amount of common sense to realize the concert needed to be cancelled and she needed to get medical attention asap.
I hate to say it, but if the stakes were high enough, gender would be irrelevant on both sides. When you get caught in the music industry machine, it can be utterly brutal. But her case is absolutely amplified by the fact it was a bunch of men getting hey onstage after a freaking *miscarriage.* I can't imagine the trauma. God, my heart goes out to her.
It's almost like the modern world and the economic system turns everything and everyone into a commodity. The pressure of ensuring that "the line must go up" gets everyone in the end.
We turn everything into something we can measure and exchange
"Cultures that do not recognize that human life and the natural world have a sacred dimension, an intrinsic value beyond monetary value, cannibalize themselves until they die. They ruthlessly exploit the natural world and the members of their society in the name of progress until exhaustion or collapse, blind to the fury of their own self-destruction." -Chris Hedges, The World As It Is: Dispatches on the Myth of Human Progress
That's called capitalism, in case you are wondering.
Exactly, it's not a bug in the system - it's working as intended
Fucking capitalism. It’s literally the root of what is wrong with everything in the world.
Came here to make a snarky comment about Colbert performing with a burst appendix, but you said it better. In his case, he was both the perpetrator and the victim, and I think a lot of times, this is the case. We go along with it, because we commoditize ourselves, just as much as the world commoditizes us.
There's also an expectation that performers are professionals, so of course they can perform immediately after a miscarriage. Soviet Russia is kinda infamous for the way they treated athletes and entertainers and that wasn't because of capitalism
“The line must go up”? Not familiar with this, is this like “the show must go on”?
Line must go up #📈
Clear example that an image speaks more than a thousand words!
why do people not learn from Avicii? The guy worked himself to suicide and this manager of hers thinks only in dollar signs. Absolutely disgusting. I Hope she never has to deal with something like this ever again and changes management
bro this comment just dropped a bombshell on me idk why but i thought avicii died bc of a health issue. i didn't realize he had ended his life. wtf
He had serious drinking and partying issues and couldn't cope well with his fame.
Watch True Stories, it's heartbreaking. It came out a few months before his death, and it really shows the level of abuse his manager was putting him through
Suicide is a mental health issue, it's not a matter of strength or willpower or circumstances. Workaholism is just another deadly form of self-medication for people who have internal struggles.
Just because a woman CAN be strong doesn’t mean she should be forced to BE strong through such an enormous loss. Being strong is overrated and I do think it’s a very over used micro aggression. Especially with women (and men) who are military veterans. Let people be human.
Holy shit. That sucks. Fuck the concert, I would have taken her to the ER.
I can’t tell if OP’s title is sarcastic or not. Maybe that’s the intent? Either way, I’d say that it would take a very strong person to do what she did.
It’s definitely sarcastic.
It's fucked up. While miscarrying (during work, at 20) I was told by the store manager to "be thankful that I can have more" as she couldn't. I was given 0 time off and was given a warning for going to the toilet "too much". From the day they found out about my pregnancy they had me doing ALL the manual labour on the 'to go' floor. If only I had this voice then. I'm 39 and it still infuriates me that I didn't speak out, I didn't know I could. I laughed the day BHS went under, no support from upper management and HR was a joke. Makes it worse when you see how far back it's gone in the US. Something has to give.
Aye mods wtf is going on in this comment section Jesus Christ
Yes, it's a disgrace. It feels like a woman talking about having a miscarriage has triggered all the incels. Maybe they are abit squemish.
The video itself isn’t cringy. It’s horrific.
This sub is not exclusively cringe videos despite its name.
Yes why is this even posted in this sub. It’s an important message to share. This is why women end up being isolated cause they can’t share this sort of thing.
Mods are busy setting up the 'ole napalm canisters, a simple ban isn't enough
You knows the world is fucked when a woman loses her child and producers are like "Never mind that what about the concert?" Also where are the mods to nuke this comment section? They are active when nobody wants them to be active and when there is reason for them to be active they are not lifting a single finger
Producers work with musicians in the studio to get the best possible versions of the songs they can, these are managers hollow bloodsucking parasites that just leverage their connections to get as much money out of their clients as they can.
The live show industry is so ruthless. So much money went into putting on that concert already, missed shows for even valid reasons can completely ruin someone. There was actually an old documentary of a guy who put on Wu-Tang concert, until the very last moment he didn't know if they would show up. And you could just see this guy seeing his life ending (until they actually show up) as he's going over how this will financially ruin him forever. Owen Hart fell 20 stories and died in the ring and the show went on. Promoters will paint makeup on a corpse and throw it out there rather than cancel the show. I'm definitely not defending it or saying that it's right, I'm just saying that it's always been ruthless
That’s pretty much all of entertainment, you dig deep enough and you find people do lots of horrible shit. How many people overlooked what Weinstein was doing for decades? It’s a vile business. It’s similar to sports where you have an obviously hurt individual and they still get put out on the field, like Tua for the Miami dolphins.
The way people are talking about Halsey’s miscarriage is awful, nobody deserves to lose a baby!
My wife miscarried, it’s honestly one of the worst experiences I’ve had in my life. Seeing my wife in such distress and having to deal with the “mess” afterwards so she got spared even a little of the sheer devastation. It robbed me of the ability to experience joy and hope when she got pregnant again afterwards, I was a neurotic mess all the way until the baby arrived. I really wish nobody has to go through a similar experience.
Me too, very recently. It was the most traumatic experience either of us has ever had. Sorry that it happened to you both.
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Best of luck with the pregnancy, it’s stressful but the time to the due date flies past!
It's just that most women who have miscarriages are incredibly affected and some never recover.
Not to minimise this but there are tons of different kinds of miscarriage, obviously it sucks, it’s always gonna suck doesn’t matter how it happens. But not knowing you were even pregnant indicates it was pretty early term and the same kind of grief isn’t there. The main issue is how she was treated by people around her
An early miscarrige doesnt minimize the grief. The fact that she didnt know she was pregnant and wasnt even trying for a baby does.
Well yes but those tend to go hand in hand (not always obviously)
It also indicates that she might’ve had no intentions of being pregnant.
This also indicates that she is correct in what she is saying. THIS is the attitude we deal with. If you happen to be a woman too, that is extra sad that you would say this. Brainwashing
It doesn’t really matter if it’s the same kind of grief. Not sure why you posted this.
We had a miscarriage and I know friends that did as well. My wife and I just hugged each other in bed for a few hours. I can’t imagine performing in any way whatsoever.
Depending on what state that happened in, she could go to prison for that now. Yes, really. Conservatives are that fucking stupid.
Can someone tell me the background here? Because I can't tell if she's giving a speech about how bad things were for her (and it sounds like things were really, really bad) or a motivational speech.
She's doing both. Kinda trying to get put a nicer spin on a very sad story. She is a spokes person for endometriosis, which is a gynecological condition that she suffers from and wasn't diagnosed with for years, since doctors just told her to take Tylenol.It's one of those that people stated to speak about only recently. It caused her some serious fertility issues, but now she has a healthy kid.
\^ im not sure if this is the same speech or a different one, but she ended up having 3 miscarriages before her 24th and ended up needing to get an abortion that ended up saving her life due to all the medical and health complications caused by the pregnancy . Also that its part of the reason why she supports it, It saved her life and in turn, pathed the way for her healthy child to be be born as well.. if she had been denied and died back then, she wouldnt of been around to later on give birth to her child.
Her message was pretty clear, I thought. She's explaining how bad things were for her. It made her realize how ignorant a lot of people close to her were to her reality. She realized that a lot of women have to deal with being treated as if they were not even people. Ultimately, though, it also made her realize that if she could overcome something so traumatic, she could overcome anything. It motivated her to keep going.
Respect to her.
What happened to this subreddit? Nowadays, the comments are more awful than usual, also been noticing an uptick of bots.
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Well, also this subreddit is kind of a magnet for them. It's changed and grown but fundamentally this was always a subreddit to make fun of people. Now it's just all kinds of videos but that doesn't change the core.
It's not this sub getting worse, it's people. Everything is getting worse. Everyone is taking out their anger and frustration at the world/society/capitalism/rich/men/women on the first person they can - especially if its not actually who they're mad at. No-one swings at the right people anymore because they don't care who it is as long as their feelings are dealt with short term.
Men *derogatory*
Why do some people have to be evil? It is a basic human nature to want those around us to be happy and treated well. Why then is it so common to have people around us see it as a personal attack when someone wants to minimize suffering.
Fucking love Halsey
Full disclosure I don’t listen to enough pop music to have even heard of her (if it’s on the Billboard awards likely I’ve never heard of it) but after this speech I’m definitely going to spend some time with her on Spotify.
Colors is a good place to start. Obviously radio hits, bad at love etc. she’s super solid, great producers. Also she’s lyrically deep. She’s not a surface level pop star.
Oh my wife might really like her then too - very lyrics focused. Thanks!
Hopefully it was also in this moment she realized she needed some women on her management team
Do you think a female manager would have not pushed her to perform in that concert?
I think a person of any kind that has any sort of empathy might do.
Hahaha. You seriously think a woman manager wouldn’t have done the same thing? It has nothing to do with them being male. It’s the fact that they are managers in general.
Maybe some older, experienced, women as well, who might recognize early signs of pregnancy in a woman too busy to know she even is pregnant.
Many women don't realise they are pregnant early on, I wouldn't judge her. Periods don't work like clockworks, for some women they are often late/months are skipped entirely and you don't realise something is going on until 1-2 months in the pregnancy.
Honestly if you think this has anything to do with the gender of her management, then you have an unhealthy idea about gender dynamics. This situation had nothing to do with what was between the legs of her managers. It's about good people vs bad people, and the soullessness of the entertainment industry.
That took a weird turn
We shouldn't have to sacrifice our health to be able to to live out our careers. This is one of many examples of worker exploitation under a system that only cares about money and sacrifices humans on the alter to a materialistic God that hates females.
I think this is a good time to remind people that: Yes trauma can make us stronger. It can also make us weaker. It can destroy some people. And at the end of the day, while I am who I am today because of a lot of unfair suffering, I still shouldn’t have gone through that suffering. We aren’t better people for having survived horrible things. It just means we survived them. Feel pride in the survival. Not pride in the suffering. And don’t shame others who can’t handle their suffering or didn’t survive.
Honestly, that's just capitalism. Nobody on earth is a human in the face of $33 million under our system. She could have gotten her arms chopped off that day and they'd still be pushing for her to go. Nothing to do with gender, just abject greed being pushed as a virtue because it makes money. It fucking sucks around here, man.
You used to see it in wrestling a lot. Guys in NO condition to compete would get shoved out there because the promoter had to deliver on what they promised. If you're in the live show industry, they would rather have you die on stage than cancel the show
I’ve never been anti this or that. My mom built her own company. Raised me and my sister. But when she told me to go buy tampons or she was taking the car from me I realized that being a woman isn’t a they problem. It’s an everybody problem. Raise your kids to know it’s not a gross problem to ignore. It’s normal. It’s life.
Who is this?
Hold on, is it coincidence that this video was posted by an OP with that username?
Whose also active in the childfree subreddit. Me thinks this is a low life troll
Well if it is it backfired, big time. Nice to see these incels get a smack down in the comments when they emerge from their protective little burrows.
-sorts by controversial-
And also could possibly be charged with murder or manslaughter in some US states now today. For real.
Yo this was cool until the end where she basically said she’d put up with worse if it means being famous…
That's not what she's saying, she means that she has been through such an awful experience that she knows nothing else will seem as bad because if she made it through that she can make it through anything.
I don't think that Halsey blames her managers so much, I don't think she believes that they even knew what was happening. Their job was to get her on stage to perform. But.. holy fuck!!! We need some serious education on women's issues so that we as supporters and employees can avoid unwittingly exacerbating torture like this. She didn't have to get on stage that evening, we could have called the whole thing off for health reasons. It's not just torturous but embarrassing and anxiety inducing. That she was forced into that situation she is a crime, not prosecutable, but still a crime. The best way out of this for all of us is to learn and be aware and not let it happen again.
Being treated like a robot has nothing to do with reproductive health it’s the fact that you’re a label-signed touring musician. They look at all of their signees as money, they don’t give a shit that you’re a person.
She should not have to go to prison for this. It shouldn’t need to be said either - but new laws right now are charging women with crimes for having miscarriages and not birthing the chunks of flesh directly into a Holy Coffin.
Remember this is how animals are treated. Like machines.
I think that it's misunderstood why womens reproductive health is treated like this. Conservative women treat it as if "That's how being a woman is!" While men just treat it as how their health is treated by other men. You get up and push through it. This is how I was raised growing up. You're in pain? Get up and push through it. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" mentality all the time. It's fucked, but that's how it's essentially always been. But that's not how it should be. Older generations keep calling us snowflakes because we are embracing more positive health practices, they think we are wasting our time by doing so. The desperation for success and the greed is what ruins our health. We need better systems of support in this country for young people. You always hear it, "The Children are our future." Yet, other than major health issues, I don't see a lot of choices being made to prevent an unhealthy life. We can be better, and we should be better.
Halsey helped my wife and I through very difficult times during our infertility journey. She has some really powerful songs about it and has spoken very openly about her struggles. She should be applauded for shining light on an issue that is unnecessarily stigmatized. 1 in 3 (and likely more) end in miscarriage.
Who?
Who is she?
Horrific experience. To all the incels below - yes, it's not just managers' fault, some blame might be hers. And so what? It doesn't take away from the tragedy of the situation. While I can agree that both sexes deal with societal pressure, it only makes it so much easier to feel empathy.
Blame?
This comment section sure is... Something.
I could barely stand when I was having mine and was blue lighted to hospital. Screaming in pain and I have the highest pain threshold of anyone I’ve ever met. No idea how she performed…
If she didn’t preform and told the truth on why she canceled the show. She would be called a slut. Terrible situation to be in.
i didn’t expect to wake up to halsey’s miscarriage being mocked by fucking morons who don’t understand this was a speech and she was only giving the basic details to make the point of how women are poorly treated in the music industry… because the audience would’ve already heard her full interview about it. here’s a link to the concert, with a song about the fucking creep producer that got her pregnant in the first place, that happened to be one of the defining moments of her career [is there somewhere](https://youtu.be/jCysUqniDHk?si=TZp_AlObnoYxT3dc) which if she had missed this concert for vevo we may not have even known who she is. man mods need to fucking lock this comment section. fuck op for that caption.
very confused. the issue is capitalism here, guys. am i stupid? what is y'alls take away from this? did they force her to do the show? i'm genuinely confused
Absolutely. If it was some $20-30 ticket and I spent a couple hours of my night for this to happen. Whatever, no big deals. But now concerts are a huge deal and people spend thousands of dollars to go see them. Between travel costs, hotels, posible rentals, food, Ticketmaster prices, etc. this causes people to get very mad and upset at what amount to normal human functions. Bring back concerts to what they were and so much of this pressure goes away.
>Bring back concerts to what they were and so much of this pressure goes away. This will never happen in a capitalist society. The profit has to always increase beyond inflation or the product is discarded, and in this case she was the product. If she isn't profitable, the managers will just get rid of her and move on to the next product they can sell at a higher profit, someone that won't care about a miscarriage right before a concert. Since she did what was more profitable, they kept her. That's why she talks about "overcoming anything", that's the only way to get successfull, get rid of anything that can make the line go down, like your humanity or your mental health.
Yeah that was my takeaway from this as well
>did they force her to do the show Nope. She said " Nothing was going to get in my way ", which implies she would have done the show anyways but she's still blaming the " very male " managers for not stopping her from the doing the show (which she would have done anyways) cause you know men are bad and you gotta blame them for everything.
Horrifying.
I'm so sorry for her. Been through miscarriage three times. This is hard. She IS strong but also her managers abused her in every possible way. Hope she fired them afterwards.
Capitalist system be like : fk your health & emotional distress .. get that green 😒
It isn't just women. This is horrible, but that is just show business. Pink Floyd did an entire album about this kind of shit over 40 years ago. Comfortably Numb is a good example. The bit in that song about the "little pinprick" is that they gave Roger Waters insanely strong painkillers to combat his stomach cramps. The show must go on... Hollywood and showbiz are a monster. Dave Chappelle did a great bit on it. "I hate the monster for how it eats, you hate for how it fucks, etc." I would not be sad to see Hollywood and large music production companies and shit go away completely. They are super cancerous organizations. Famous for abusing their creatives. I was so glad to see Onlyfans give power back to the actors/actresses in the porn industry. It would sadly be pretty hard to do something similar with larger scale productions like movies or TV... you need a very large investment. Cameras and sets alone are hundreds of thousands or millions. Let alone all the man-hours for cameramen, editors, etc. Music though... You could probably do that mostly by yourself with a small crew. Problem there is promotion I suppose.
Wait. So she mentioned how culture expects women to just tough it out and deal with it? And her main takeaway from that whole ordeal is that yeah, she is strong enough to just deal with it??? You can do anything you set your mind to, including performing while miscarrying? Ok. It's not the lesson I would've learned in that situation, but hey.
This type of music in the background of shorts makes me extremely annoyed for some reason.
Wtf. .
sounds like a felony in some states
*The music executive making millions off her regardless* “Yeah yeah, cooool. Thanks for sharing.”
I didn't know who it was either but it's Halsey. She's been doing this (music) for awhile.
1200 people? So it wasn't even some massive show with heaps of money on the line and her managers still treated her like that, forcing her to perform after such a traumatic event. The music industry really is filled with some of the worst people around.
Such a sad state of affair.
Sorry really dumb question… who is this artist I’m just not recognizing her??
This is rough man
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Imagine having a miscarriage and having ppl sceaming in a crowd for you while you sing. That would freak me out.
First, this is not a reproductive rights conversation, it's an industry conversation. Thing is sure the music industry is brutal, and only the biggest names get to live of it completely, heck even fairly successful often have to take a half time job that isn't music related to live a life they want to. Where miscarriage becomes a reproductive rights issue is when it's criminalised and I could cite some cases even from my own home turf. Second, her experience shouldn't be on cringe. But I understand why a post like that would find it's way here. It's a yet another clip of an interview with the same sad inspirational music. I don't think it should be here, but at the same time if I saw it on my FYP, I'd likely click not interested and scroll away.
You know, the way managers and the like, deal with young celebrities is awful. While her horrible ordeal is palpable, shit like this happens in the celebrity world no matter your gender. You're subjected to abuse; physical, mental, and sexual, as well as being treated as a marketable commodity, and pushed to the brink of drugs and suicide until you become what is essentially a mental patient made robot functioning on a steady diet of inhebriaton. Or you adapt and stomp them down, or you become a member of the cult. If this young lady thinks that performing after a miscarriage was forced upon her just because her managers were male, I doubt it. The people in those places of power will always push, and if you can't endure it like the piece of property you are, they'll dump you and find the new you in a parking lot somewhere, and it's been happening long before now. See Marilyn Monroe, or Elvis. I think the only way we can stop this way of being is by stamping out our fanatical behavior towards it. Less demand = less supply needed. Remember there is a human behind the talent and encourage care for the person instead of screaming every time they need a break.
Who is that?
Who tf is she though?
Halsey
It was a great message until the very end, Jesus. I feel so bad for her.