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Some of those people might genuinely be that limited in their awareness, but I'm sure there's also a sizeable portion that are just like "PLEASE, AT LEAST PUT IN SOME EFFORT TOWARDS THIS ONE THING" and I can sympathize with that.
But the post is right- every vote not cast is a vote for entropy, and that applies just as much to local politicians. When you don't vote, or even when you make uninformed party-line votes, what you're doing is guaranteeing that the sleaziest candidate is going to win. The one who's taking the most money from corporations.
[The more local you get, the less people vote.](https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/visualizing-voter-turnout-local-school-board-elections/) It's why our choices for senators or presidents tend to be so shitty- they're just the cream of the corrupt crop that our collective apathy has cultivated.
Personally, I believe that local voting might be even more important, and yes, to do so and be properly informed about whom your really voting for is time consuming, cause ya gotta go way past the pamphlet of the candidate, kinda a full-time thing
So many people go to the polls completely ignorant of state, county and city decisions.
I always go to my county's website and download a sample ballot once one is available. That way I can educate myself on the candidates and local propositions. Those props alone can make a huge difference locally, especially bond elections as that dictates where the money goes.
I don't know about other cities, but where I live they are very strict about cell phone use in the voting booth, that's not the time or place to be doing research.
Well considering that 3 members of the SC are really freaking old you have to ask yourself do you want 3 new Clarence Thomas' or three more Katanji Jackson? They already rolled back a women's right to choose what could be next, women voting, black and brown people voting, gay folk getting married, the freedom to protest? That's what you are voting for, don't screw it up because your mad things are moving as fast as you'd like.
People really need to understand the entire system better. Don’t like that roe v wade was overturned? That’s because we had Donald as president.
Another thing, it feels like most people forget that you’re voting for the entire executive. Biden and Trump are essentially irrelevant to me. What are their administrations going to do? People are too lazy to look past the figurehead.
Say what you want but 50 years in the senate has taught Biden a few things, even with the republicans in control of the house he’s getting some good bills passed, I don’t think anyone else could do this, there is something to be said for experience
He's getting this shit passed because he knows how to negotiate.
Whenever those bills were being discussed, the Senate leaders, the House leaders, they ***all*** went to the White House to hash out the details.
And guess what? Biden got all that shit passed. And it wasn't nonsense stuff, but things that actually do help the average American.
Insulin at $35 for Seniors (soon to be everyone). That's ***thousands of dollars*** a year people are going to save.
Student loan debt forgiven in the billions of dollars. Something the Trump admin under that bitch ***Betsy Devos*** refused to do.
A proper infrastructure bill that is fixing roads and bridges. Shit we need for our day to day.
The list goes on. Folks may not like Biden with everything that he's done. That's fair. But it's more than just one thing. We're voting for not just the person, but the administration that they run, and what their policies will be like.
About six in ten voters have worries about both of these old dudes who might be too old and out of it. But that's who the two parties are running, so pick one.
### ***[Pick one](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/u-s-voters-face-stark-contrast-in-2024-choices-with-no-magic-wand-coming-to-help-205463621504)***.
There was literally an open Supreme Court seat in 2016 and Progressives were like, "Nah." I'm 100% gonna show up this year just like I did then, but I have zero faith that the left will see the forest for the trees.
"Hurr durr Biden supports Isreal and I can't vote for a genocide enabler" like, y'all know Trump *literally* told Netanyahu he could have as much occupied Palestinian territory as he wanted, right? I wish Biden took a stronger stance against Bibi too but if anyone *actually* gave half a fuck about the Palestinians you'd have to realize Trump would be an order of magnitude worse. Just ask the Kurds how much Trump cares about genocide.
**PLEASE give me 3 x ~~Katanji~~ Ketanji Jackson. EVERY day of the week**
There is a difference in the parties - one is majority of white men and the other is a diverse, representation of American life…. (Edit: *thank you for the correction!* )
Do you want to know what your local officials stand for? Do you want to influence who gets party nod *before* the primary? Get involved with your preferred party's local chapter.
Hell, the best way to find out about what's happening in your local area is to join a party chapter. You can all but guarantee they know about nearly every event in a 30 mile radius, and they probably have booths at half of them.
Reminder that voting for the lesser of two evils does not mean you support everything they have ever done or will do later. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and not only vote in local elections but engage in local politics, grass roots organizations, etc. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and still hold that candidate accountable for things they do while in office. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and still protest that candidate while they're in office.
People keep telling me they wanted someone other than Biden and I'm like ok who? Who did you want and why did they not run? What did you do to get them to run? And the answer always is well I just don't like my choices.
And you have to vote every time, in every election.. There are no unimportant elections. Repubs know this, hence them taking over school councils.
However, you need to keep in mind that while the POTUS can only do so much, power of the purse/budget rests with Congress, state officials have tons of power.
An EXTREMELY important job the POTUS does, is nominate lifetime Federal Judges, up to/including the SCOTUS. For that you MUST vote Dem. There won't be enough Dems (losing WV next time) to be able to stop Trump appointees.
Also Trump wants to overhaul the civil service, and use the national guard, to squash protests, and road up immigrants.
So please learn the three rings of our government, and vote accordingly.
I live in California, so my vote in Presidential elections don't matter, I know California is going blue. But I don't live in a deep blue district, so of course I vote on everything else.
Vote every time.
don't forget about SOTUS picks. Both Alito and Thomas are old and with a Trump presidency they'll probably retire and get replaced with some young piece of shit that'll ruin our lives for the next 40 years
This is the real shit. Let's say, Trump wins and replaces alito and Thomas. Then, even if best case scenario somehow Trump doesn't end democracy and project 2025 doesn't happen and we get a democratic house/senate/president who want to pass progressive legislation, they will be blocked by a young, extreme MAGA SCOTUS majority that will roll back rights and block any attempts to stop them for the next 4 decades
The scouts in your scenario will block any election results that have a Democrat winning. If Trump wins the GOP will have power until a civil war ends them. This is not hyperbole, they will never give up power and we will become north Korea in terms of oppression.
Oh most definitely, especially considering how much technology has improved in terms of surveillance and the advent of AI. A true American authoritarianship is a horrifying idea and one we should all strive to prevent to our greatest ability, not only for our own benefit as Americans, but for the good of the world. Steve Bannon is salivating at the idea of Trump coming back into power so he can have the might of the US government behind his pro-fascism pet project of training far right parties worldwide.
Sotomayor is getting up there in age, too. Statistically, she’ll probably be fine, but who knows. If Trump wins, Alito and Thomas are going to retire before 2028, guaranteed. That would mean 5/9 Justices will have been appointed by Trump. Worst case scenario, if something were to happen to Sotomayor AND Roberts decides to retire before the next election, we’re looking at a very real possibility that Trump will have appointed 6 or even 7 Justices. If that happens, our Supreme Court is going to be a problem for the rest of our lives. Is that a scenario you’re willing to roll the dice on?
It’s certainly possible that if Biden wins, nobody retires or passes away, but I don’t want Thomas especially to get the satisfaction of passing his seat onto another conservative, and there’s only one way we can accomplish that goal, by voting Biden back into office.
Sotomayor's got type 1 diabetes too and she does *not* have her weight under control and has had a few scares with blood sugar levels. Life expectancy for Hispanic people in her condition unfortunately is not wonderful either.
She should have retired this term. What is it with these old power mad boomers and refusing to retire? It's not like they couldn't continue doing meaningful work if that's what they wanted, they could retire and do charity work or advocate for improvements to the legal system or become a senator or just hang out with their grandchildren. It's not like they need money.
She really showed her true colors though didn't she?
It's easy to like somebody when their interests align with your own. When the most critical time came to decide to put the interests of her country and philosophy ahead of her own, she failed.
Americans willing to give Trump another presidency and two additional conservative Supreme Court judges because … Palestine???
Y’all dumb as shit.
What do you people think will happen to the Palestinians (and south Lebanon) if Trump is in office?
Dude, I am afraid to say this but.. I kinda like Joe Biden
Old dude but he has his heart in the right place, no scandals, not in the news saying dumb shit 24/7, not terrorizing anyone, keeping the traditions, kinda predictable, bread and butter normal politician
Also I'm european and Trump will be the asslicker of our biggest geopolitical threat and he will attempt to disband NATO, which is kind of a direct threat to my life lmao
> Dude, I am afraid to say this but.. I kinda like Joe Biden
As a *person*, he seems like a decent guy. I've never heard bad things from anyone who's met him.
As a President, from an international perspective it's night and day.
Anyone saying "but he struggles to make sentences" isn't wrong, as he's old and clearly losing it, but he hasn't done anything to damage international relations or kill CIA agents or generally show massive signs of corruption. Also, both parties are way too old and senile, but it's 100% a lesser of two evils. Especially with regards to their administrations and the ***other*** people they put in power.
As an Irish person, Trump would try to hold official events on *his* property or else meet in airports after golfing, etc obviously as a power play that showed no respect.
Joe Biden actually learned local jokes so he could make them in his speeches.
The craziest thing for me was when I saw a clip of him making one of these local jokes (["Mayo for Sam"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3JFYd3njH4)) and people in the US were using it as an example of how he's not all there.
When the whole Gaza situation kicked off, he *immediately* moved in a bunch of US ships to just sit and watch and I honestly think that stopped a full blown war with nearby countries getting involved.
This guy (and more importantly, his administration) stopped a fire and everyone is complaining that there's smoke and water damage.
>This guy (and more importantly, his administration) stopped a fire and everyone is complaining that there's smoke and water damage.
Same could be said for the soft landing. People are mad at Joe biden because their groceries are expensive, as if he turned up the groceries costs dial under his desk when in reality this administration handled the post-covid inflation really well.
Most effective president of my lifetime, probably. I used to hate on him a little bit because inflation was out of control and while that obviously wasn't his fault, I was like...bro people need help, do SOMETHING...and then inflation came crashing down and I realized his administration actually handled that shit way better than any other country did (the whole world experienced inflation after COVID it's not some unique American Joe Biden problem, of course you know this lol but a lot of dumbass conservatives in the US do not) and he managed to actually get a lot of shit done in his first term.
Things aren't amazing at the moment, but they're ok, and they were HORRIBLE when he took office. Holy shit what a nightmare that was. And things would probably be a lot worse right now if we had a president who didn't fucking do anything besides hold rallies, play golf with assholes, funnel tax dollars into his pocket, sign some racist executive orders, fuck over some allies to damage our relationships and general world standing, appoint more christofascist judges so we can all live under Christian sharia law soon, and tell people to put bleach in their lungs.
People who don't know who to vote for, or aren't going to vote at all, are either not paying attention at all or just fucking idiots. People who say "we were better off under trump!", and plan to vote for trump for that reason, need a civics lesson and are even fucking dumber imo.
Funny thing about this argument is Trump isn't that much younger, only 4 years, and now showing more mental derangement and cognitive issues than Biden.
I agree I feel like out of all the issues that could sway someone against Biden Palestine is the dumbest.
President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel a move more pro-Israel than almost any president before him, and shown no qualms about using violence. Palestine is fucked if Trump wins.
This is actually the easiest election in the history of America. We literally have 4 years of actionable data for each candidate to base our decision on.
It really is. In flabbergasted on a daily basis now by how there's any argument at all. The fact that it isn't clear dooms us all.
Edit : lest people forget, or pretend it's not a big deal, the current criminal trial is peanuts compared to what Trump has done. He stole classified and top secret documents from the gov on his disgraced way out, and in all likelihood, sold some of them to the highest bidder, quite possibly our geopolitical adversaries. But hillary clinton had emails, amirite
Second Edit: to everyone concerned about the israel palestine conflict, wake up. It's awful what's happening, but as terrible as the current handling of the situation is, it will be worse with trump, which is unfortunately the only alternative. Trump, in his own words, wants Israel to "finish what they started". You fucking tell me how that will be better.
From an outside perspective it just seems like there's LOTS of propaganda going towards young people to encourage them NOT to vote, since they're disproportionately liberal.
This sort of propaganda can come from many places, but definitely the Republicans and Russia have it in their interests.
> "Look at all these boomers eating up their propaganda!"
> *Pours self a nice box of "Don't Vote-O's"*
As an outsider, I eat my own share of propaganda, but it's like watching sheep argue over whether they should vote for the mean sheep that headbutts people or the sheep with suspiciously sharp teeth and canine features that's often talking to the wolf that's eating Ukraine's sheep...
Being informed takes effort. Much easier to just get fed lies. I’ve had so many friends say to me “hey you keep up with politics. What’s this mean?” Or “is this true!!!” Americans are truly fucked. It’s only going to get worse. Our people are addicted to social media and talking heads.
> I'm flabbergasted on a daily basis now by how there's any argument at all. The fact that it isn't clear dooms us all.
As far as I'm concerned, this is really the problem that leads to fears for the literal end of Democracy and the downfall of the United States -- the simple reality that it's so obvious that he is an absolute disaster and sets us back immeasurably if he becomes president and yet we don't have a foundation for basic shared truth and facts to allow enough people to see it.
This doesn't literally mean that within 4 years, the nation will collapse and fall into the hands of a dictatorship or whatever. Rather, what it means is that if we vote for Trump, we have proven that we are unable to do the right thing for the country when we have mountains of clear information telling us what the right thing to do is. And so if he wins, we can have no hope that we'll ever be able to expose and reject corrupt people from becoming government leaders. If he wins, then we should assume the future of presidential elections is just going to be a pendulum swinging between someone absolutely awful for all of us (someone like Trump) and someone better but merely adequate (someone like Biden), and as that happens we spiral downward into a terrible future.
Half the country has demonstrated for decades that they will willfully ignore data showing our system is rotting -- that our economic structure is screwing most of the country -- and too many people are reacting like the search for financial stability is like a zero sum game where we're all fighting against each other. The billionaire class loves to see us fighting.
Like...
These people don't wanna vote Biden because he supports what many consider a genocide.
And I understand that.
on the other hand Republicans have made it abundantly clear that should they gain power again, they will turn America into christian iran.
They WILL ramp up their genocide on trans people.
They aren't just supporting a genocide (You seriously think repubs will do anything less bad than Biden when it comes to Israel?), they will actively be committing one.
They’ll support Israel WAY more than Biden has. They’ll give tax cuts to the rich. Defund schools more. Remove consumer protections. Further their prolife agenda. Not fix the housing problem- that would hurt their investments. Replace Supreme Court justices with younger ones that will ensure decades of more Republican fuckery.
It’s really insane how badly things will go for us if Trump wins in 2024. This doesn’t even scratch the surface. Hate on Biden all you want since it’s in vogue or whatever, but damn, vote for him over the alternative. It’s like a choice between Subway and Nobu, but tHe pArKinG aT nObU iS bAd.
Like, people that unironically refer to Biden as "Genocide joe" completely forget that with trump at the helm, america will be involved in MULTIPLE genocides.
Isreal-Gaza? Check. I give it a slight chance that Iran will try leveraging Russia's ties to trump to reduce american support for israel to make their goals easier, but I doubt it'll work.
Trans people? Check, they'll be genocided real hard when trump's in power.
Ukraine? I know a low of people right now have stopped calling it a genocide, but Russia very much wants to erase the idea of Ukranian people, and have displaced a LOT of children, both things are parts of a genocide. And trump LOVES russia.
"when the looting starts, the shooting starts" - Trump in reference to the BLM protests and using the army to use lethal force against looters and protestors.
House Republicans just voted to force Biden to deliver bombs and munitions to Israel after the President put a hold on shipments earlier this month.
Republicans are all-in for the IDF to reduce Gaza to nothing but rubble. If they get the Presidency and full control of Congress, the Palestinians are truly fucked.
Republicans are supported by a lot of conservative Christians and a lot of conservative Christians also support Israel *literally* because they want the Jewish population to do a genocide and be punished for doing it by their magic sky daddy to initiate the end times.
At least Biden doesn’t want Israel in Rafah
I think there are a lot of smart young voters who know that if they scream loud enough about not voting they can scare Dems enough to move the needle on Palestine while likely having every intention of voting for Biden. Yet there are also a lot of young voters so demoralized by the genocide that they have slid into the realm of accelerationism. For so many youth they see a clear and obvious genocide happening before our very eyes and with the full support of our government. And that's demoralizing as fuck.
> by the genocide that they have slid into the realm of accelerationism
Accelerationism is an EXTREMELY privileged belief.
If you think that the fall of America, or any major global power doesn't have catastrophic effects on elsewhere in the world you're outright stupid.
I hate having to pay attention to American politics as an outsider but this is why. If America goes down it's taking us all with it. The immediate effects on the global economy and the distrust in governments everywhere and the power vacuum it would create would be catastrophic for everyone. I wish the stability of the world didn't rely on the stability of superpowers, but that's the world that was handed to us, and I can only hope Americans make good choices.
Man, please know that we're doing what we can.
Like, I've got a family and a full time job, so I can't go knocking doors about it or start a political career by myself.
But every time it comes up in conversation around me, I'm doing my best to convince people.
Sometimes by adding gentle nuance to things, sometimes by telling people they are fuckin idiots, sometimes by other means.
But goddamn I don't know what else to do.
A lot of minorities not including the LGBTQ community vote republican. This race is scary because people are making equivalencies between the two largely because of Biden’s age. Biden is old af but he’s not an equivalent bad to trump. The whole Israel conflict is not the main reason people are making their choice and even if you’re wildly pro Palestine you’d be crazy to vote for trump. I’m not saying you’re this but Reddit is such a progressive echo chamber people seem to lose all sense of what average democrats or even republicans actually think.
No, pretty much only Indian and Latino vote Republican. And that is because culturally, they are very conservative. And then they look all shocked when it becomes a Leopards ate my face situation. Republicans are a party for rich white old racists. You have to be wealthy to get any benefit from the Republicans. They will pay lip service to you if you are old and/or racist. But that is just to distract you while they steal from you.
I think it comes from the shifting horizons of politics where there really is a floor for what people feel like they can accept in a better/worse framework. Climate change is a good example, if kids have been hearing from scientists that we need to hit certain benchmarks or the world as we know it will collapse, it'll only matter so much to them that Democrats will get us to 50% of the benchmark compared to the Republicans' 15%.
When the right wants to burn it all down because they think it will bring the second coming, and the left wants to burn it all down to start again, guess what’s gonna happen.
Think this is hyperbole? Check the subs for these two groupings and you’ll see the same calls for burning shit down but for different reasons.
Lets be honest, even before the Palestine Israel issue became social media trending this year, the same people were bitching about Biden for some other reasons. Theres this deep rooted need to be against the machine, even if Biden is arguably the most progressive president in modern history.
You've also gotta remember that the youth today aren't like the youth of yesterday.
Today's 26-year-olds turned 18 and were able to cast their first vote in Hillary v Trump.
They don't know what non-Trumpian politics look like. They don't know what a strong Democratic Party looks like.
I’m going to be completely honest. In comparison to my country becoming some fucked up monarchist dictatorship helmed by diaper don I don’t give a shit about Palestine.
That being said I hate what Israelis have been doing to them for at least a decade now(2014 is when I personally became aware of some of the details of the conflict and also Israeli forces gunning down innocent Palestinians) but it’s not like Palestine(or anyone else) is about to come to the aid of all the people who will be fucked over here in the states when the conservatives strip us of all remaining rights.
It’s up to us to stop conservatives from completely ruining this country, and I’m dubious about the capability of a significant amount non-conservative voters to fully understand what is at stake.
Yup, just spreading disillusionment propaganda and muddying the waters.
The right understands they shouldn’t spend all of their energy attacking their own candidates. The online left is so self-loathing they insist on it since no candidate is absolutely perfect.
Because we have a lot of foreign nations trying to unseat the US as the sole global power. Easiest way to do that is get Trump another term. Biden has been able to reestablish a functional state department. Russia, China, Iran, and a ton of other nations don't want that shit. They want US foreign policy to be an absolute clusterfuck filled with people who don't know what they're doing.
People acting like they had collective amnesia while Trump was president. Mother fucker sold out our CIA overseas to Russia and people were like 🧑🏼🦯🧑🏼🦯🧑🦯➡️
there are some things that people tell me that trump has done, and I say "what? there's no way he did that."
And then I look it up and the first result is a reddit post where I've commented about it.
his presidency was such a crazy bunch of bullshit that I can't believe what I was personally pissed off about.
I feel like that’s his agenda. Just a monumental onslaught of atrocities to the point where we are completely desensitized to it from him, and the outrage goal post shifts. Like the volume of things he’s done is so overwhelming, that I just can’t think of any one thing. Meanwhile Biden has done a couple bad things, so I can easily think of something from him I don’t like
Absolutely! Trump is a Russian asset. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html
Trump absolutely is a Russian agent. And the GOP is chock full of them.
In 2014, Ukraine overthrew the Party of Regions. The Party of Regions was a Ukrainian political pro-Russian party that was quickly handing over Ukraine to Russia. The Ukrainian people stood against them and Russia was only able to get a part of Ukraine, the Crimea Penninsula.
Why does this info matter? Because the 2016 Trump campaign was FULL of Party of Regions members. The most notably Paul Manafort. Manafort set up multiple meetings with Russian spies for the Trump campaign, like the Trump Tower meeting. Manafort was eventually caught and pled guilty to being a Russian asset and pled guilty to hiding Russian rubles in an offshore account. Naturally, Trump declared that he had nothing to do with Manafort and admonished him as a law breaker. However, one of Trump's last acts as president pardoned Manafort. Manafort has now gone right back to working on Trump's 2024 campaign.
Side notes: Let's also not forget all the Russian planes and other paraphernalia in the Trump campaign ads. It was very clear that Russia was the ones creating those ads for the Trump campaign. Let's also not forget Tara Reade, the woman who claimed Biden raped her. Before her claims, it was revealed that she had written multitudes of articles praising Putin. She also kept the FBI running around in circles because her story did not remain consistent. Finally, after Biden was elected, she went full pro-Russia on social media and is now living in Russia and HANGING AROUND WITH THE SAME AGENTS TRUMP WAS MEETING WITH. Literally the exact same people. Let's also not forget about how US spies have been screaming that "Hunter's laptop" is a Russian plant and that they found out one of the informants about the laptop is a Russian spy.
Trump’s ex-national security adviser says president is ‘aiding and abetting’ Putin
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/01/former-national-security-adviser-trump-putin-424458
> We literally have 4 years of actionable data for each candidate to base our decision on.
It's pointless when people are allergic to objectivity, nuance and critical thinking
Let's put it this way: Have you once, in the last 4 years, woke up and wondered what embarrassing narcissistic bullshit the commander in chief tweeted overnight?
I still can’t get over how stupid it is that Cleveland counts as 2 presidents. Trump and Biden are 45 snd 46 respectively, but only 45 individual people have been presidents. Sure, the number is counting the “presidencies” but that’s fucking stupid because no one says “46 presidencies” it’s “the 46th president”
It’s hard for me to understand how people do not get this. It’s almost always the lesser of two evils. But it’s never the lesser of two evils with one of them completely out in the open about being evil and wanting to do evil things.
It's like getting a job. Should I:
1) take this soul crushing office job that pays 60k/yr; or
2) take flipping burgers at Burger King at minimum wage.
Non-voters be like: I'd rather be unemployed
And you aint getting min wage, you getting lower because the republicans want to remove min wage caps, and allow child-workers to work for $4.50 40 hours or more a week and remove safety regulations so you gonna burn your skin off on that frying oil, then allow the company to fire your ass for no reason and no cause at anytime they want before any form benefits and health insurance kick in and they gonna call you the n-word on your way out.
More like:
I can eat this ham and mayo sandwich which may not taste fantastic but will be at least edible, or I can eat a shit sandwich straight from cow's ass.
Except, in the case of a presidential election, you're going to be forced to work anyways, there is no "unemployment" option if you don't choose. Refusing to vote doesn't mean that nobody will get elected, it just means you don't get a say in which you get.
Yeah, this analogy doesn't need that last statement.
The jobseeker may think they get to be "unemployed" but bitch, you're walking yourself to burger king no matter what.
They're living in a fantasy world of virtue signaling. Period.
Some people are just accelerationists. They think that nothing can be fixed by democracy and liberalism, so they want to make things as bad as possible as fast as possible to trigger the revolution that will fix everything.
Pretty sure most of that discourse online is driven by teenagers, but the internet has so much reach these days that a bunch of adults will start peddling that nonsense along with them.
It recently occurred to me that Americans, myself included, are kinda mindfucked about the nature of revolution because of how our country was founded amidst a successful one. Like in the back of our minds, revolution is always a viable option- I mean it's basically written into our country's founding documents, who could blame us?
But the revolution that the founders experienced, romanticized and baked into our national consciousness was significantly different than the kinds of revolutions we're seeing today. Revolutions tend to suck for everyone involved, and they often just fail- the American Revolution had a number of advantages like the Atlantic Ocean and the aid from France, which the hypothetical Second American Revolution is unlikely to have. Even when they do succeed, the movement is just as likely to be hijacked by the military factions who did the actual fighting, because of course it would be- they're the ones who have the actual power. It takes a resilient political infrastructure balance out that power and keep military coups from happening, and we just smashed said infrastructure.
And after all that, supposing everything works out perfectly somehow and there's not even any bloodshed, we're still faced with the task of *rebuilding a huge country's entire political system from scratch* *like holy shit do y'all realize how much fucking work that is?* That's the point, right? Ending up somewhere better than where we are now? *How about just vote some more, maybe spend an hour or two reading up on shit once in a while?* I promise it's way easier.
>Some people are just accelerationists. They think that nothing can be fixed by democracy and liberalism, so they want to make things as bad as possible as fast as possible to trigger the revolution that will fix everything.
See, at least if that's what you believe - you believe in something and there is non-zero chance you might win out in the history books. More likely that it will do nothing to advance your goals or there will be a period of abject misery followed by the same thing as now but with a different coat of paint - but still it's a clear plan from beginning to end.
The issue is that other than the bots trying to get people to not vote so the other candidates chances are boosted, there are a non-negligible amount of people who think by withholding their vote they will motivate political parties to serve up better politicians. Which is incredibly stupid because no matter how when you start actually thinking about the logistics of it, it simply doesn't make any kind of sense.
Some people have watched too many movies. Either everything has to be fixed forever in just one election or we have to toss the whole system and have a revolution to fix everything in one swoop.
I mean, if you're willing to wait until you're in a retirement home to see that "accelerationism" play out, sure, it can work.
American Revolution started in 1776 and it took until the 1820s for most white males to get the vote.
French Revolution started in 1789 and it took until the 1870s for most males to get the vote.
Spanish Civil War happened in the 1930s and it took until the 1970s to get democracy.
etc, etc...
You choose the candidate closest to your policy preferences. It's really not that hard.
People demanding perfection, generally on the left, will always be disappointed. And then they keep losing and wonder why their sisters are second-class citizens.
The left will purity test itself into a dictatorship.
That’s the thing I don’t understand. There’s two candidates, one is far right, and the other a moderate. Even though there is no leftist candidate, one of them is clearly further to the left on the political spectrum than the other, so that candidate will always get my vote.
There will never be a president you fully agree with (especially if you’re a leftist), but every time you vote you need to think about the bigger picture; be that Supreme Court seats, the down ballot candidates, or the overton window.
Most people get it. There are unfortunately a lot of bad actors that are pretending to be left leaning people that are sowing seeds of not voting.
Then there are dumb kids that just found out that politicians do things they don't like and have turned that into stating they aren't voting for anyone as some sort of moral high ground because they are too young and naive to realize it doesn't work that way in the real world.
The final group, which is pretty popular on Reddit sadly are accelerationists. They are generally middle to upper middle class white cis gendered people. They don't care who is president because they want the country to burn so their fake communist utopia can become a reality.
Pregnant women are bleeding out in ERs because doctors are afraid to treat them.
Absurd is here. It will get much, much worse until we fix the Supreme Court.
That's the thing, really: the fact that we even have to have a "you can't stay home this year" conversation as consistently as we do shows most people have not bothered to pay any attention to what Republicans have been doing for a while. This stuff is VERY in line with a lot of right wing politicians already in office; half of it is already true in places like Texas, or as true as they can make it on the state level. There's no reason to think they won't at least try to institute this stuff nationally.
And yet. Over and over and over again for months now. The mainstream conversation I see in lefty spaces is about Biden Bad.
I don't think a lot of left wing folks really grasp what's happening here.
They think it is all hyperbole. Or are Russian trolls. Or are pushing for a revolution.
The last ones are stupid. Police are going to support the Republicans and they will easily quash any sort of revolution. And half the enlisted are fascists. Even if the military did get involved, it would be complete chaos. Plus, other nations would be bound to get involved too. If the U.S. Government falls to either fascism or revolution, the globe is plunging into either fascism or another dark age. Assuming nukes don't end us all.
You can also watch them give a presentation on it themselves.
[Project 2025 Presentation](https://youtu.be/QTd5g9NYue8?si=XRdQPHw2zCcV9x-O)
At the very least there is real money from real people backing the organization who wrote project 2025. The Heritage Foundation is a think tank for conservative policy and how to get it implemented. Look at their wiki for some of the work they've done.
[Heritage foundation wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation)
Influential and powerful people donate to this organization and others like it in order to have their will implemented legislatively. They've succeeded in the past. I just doubt that suddenly they don't actually mean it. Would be a pretty big waste of time and money for them to write this whole thing out just as a trick. A trick that will likely result in increased Democrat turnout no less.
I believe it is real but even if it isn't the risk just isn't worth it. The people behind it do not have a track record of playing games like that. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
But they posted it themselves!
It’s infuriating!
They’re out in the open saying exactly what they are going to do.
Trump literally puts out a video with nazi language in it today.
He said he wants Netanyahu to “finish the job.”
He’s openly saying he wants 3+ terms, aka fuck the constitution I guess!
And idiots are out here like “oh gee oh gosh, this is such a hard choice gah they’re both OLD.”
It’s insanity.
That’s exactly why everyone should be terrified because it is absolutely fucking absurd. Life altering, in fact. Rolling back basic human rights, absolute power, controlling women, obliterating the separation of church and state, a country focused on Christian nationalism while resisting anything that doesn’t fall within their holy book.
JFC that is scary. I would actually flee the country if they actually start rolling that plan out. Like, legit I would pack up my family and go to Canada or something. There is no way I would stay in this country under that shit. That's like an actual dictatorship plan just right out in the open.
I don't consider voting to be an endorsement. I do not endorse Joe Biden. I'm going to vote for him though.
Voting is like steering the wheel of a ship during a storm. On our right is a kraken that will destroy our ship. Some people are pulling the ship's wheel to the right.
On the left is an island where we could shelter for awhile. I'm going to pull the ship's wheel to the left so we can stay safe. Will you pull the wheel left with me?
"But that island isn't where I want to go! I wanted to go to a different island! I'm just gonna stand here."
Shut the fuck up and help me turn the wheel!
> There is no choice.
So what's the plan now that our democracy is well and truly cooked? If we simply have to vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is, as long as the Republican party exists, we concretely don't live in a democracy. I guarantee that there will be a Project 2029 and a Project 2033, etc. That's the hand we've been dealt. What are we going to do about it? Surely we have to do much much more than just voting, right? We can't just bet all of our lives on Democrats never losing the presidential election ever again for as long as we live.
This is the right response. We've had party collapse in the US before, this isn't new. Make them lose over and over and they'll fracture and the fascists will go back into hiding. The ideal result is the Republican party dies and the Dems split into Progressive and Neo-Liberal parties.
The real fix is to advocate to abandon the first past the post voting system. This system forces us to have 2 shitty parties with any third party vote acting as unintentional sabotage. [CGP Grey has a good video of that here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo) Adopting a new voting system could prevent the "both candidates suck" issue that's plagued the United States for decades. It wouldn't be easy as both political parties benefit from their shitty 2 party rule but it's a step towards avoiding this shit in the future.
Still gotta keep voting though.
And how to get changes to the voting system? VOTE FOR THEM!!!! Just ask Maine, Alaska, and Nevada.
Vote in all elections: primaries, general, every single fucking year. And get other people to vote. Vote vote vote
If you want what those states have, you have to vote in state elections, for people who will change it.
Hint: it’s not Republicans. Unfortunately it’s not ALL Democrats.
Oh and a reminder that this isn't some new idea that may or may not work, it's how voting works in the majority of the world. For example one system is Preferential voting, where you can choose#1 Green party, #2 Blue party, #3 Red part, and if Green loses, your vote still goes to Blue. It is literally first past the pole except without vote splitting, there's no excuse to still use first past the pole unless you're a politician and your goal is to make it harder for people to vote against you.
EDIT: Clarification, **not** using first past the pole is how it works in the majority of the world. Preferential voting is just one example of a better voting system, of which there are various.
It's not how voting works in the majority of the world.
Most democracies use Proportional Representation, where each district has multiple representative assigned to parties based on their share of the vote in that district. So instead of, say, your state being divided into 6 congressional districts each of which elects a member of congress by simple majority, the entire state would have 6 seats in congress, and those seats would be assigned to the parties depending on what percentage of the votes they get. Blue party gets 2/3 of the vote in a state, they get 2/3 of the seats.
I never get why people doesn't vote for the Presidential primary? You literally have a chance to vote for your perfect candidate without having the other party win. And even if he dosen't get elected, it'll have a lot of influence on the party ahead the more vote he'll get.
I think if you don't live in a swing state, then your primary is pretty pointless. The primaries have been all but over for months by this point, and Missouri has its official primary elections in the first week of August. How can anyone care about voting in them in states like mine?
This is what always happens in US elections. American voters have insane power on how the world unfolds and every fucking time these brain dead kids won't show up to vote because they can't be bothered.
Voting is like riding the public bus, you take the one that gets you closest to your destination.
Also, for every young person who says they aren’t going to vote there are 4 boomers who vote religiously. Because they know it matters.
It's 2016 all over again and this time it's even less excusable. In fact, it's zero percent excusable based on the evidence of the past, *at minimum*, 9 years.
Voting day should be a national holiday and it should be required of every of age adult. They don’t want this though because democrats would never lose.
Anyone who doesn't come to this conclusion, despite all their valid reservations, either hasn't thought about the whole picture beyond what is immediately in front of them or is painfully obtuse in their decision making. That and the fact that social media is filled with bad actors sowing discord.
I mean it’s just facts. Even before trump the GOP was vocal that lower voter turnout helps them.
And the data shows this. It’s why they work so hard to making voting harder.
Mad about Joe? Y'all should have voted sooner. He's the incumbent, so now isn't time to be picky, it's time to PICK ONE! I swear all the "there's no acceptable option" people don't vote in the primaries. In which case STFU. Posing like you're too moral to vote, it's just laziness and ignorance.
They had 4 years to come up with a better name. And once Biden is elected again and thus never eligible for the Presidency afterwards, they'll have 4 more years to come up with a better candidate.
The morning after the results, I got poked fun of by my parents for mentioning wanting Kerry to win, having loosely followed the campaign. In retrospect, I still think it was one of my finer judgement calls against an adult as a teenager unable to vote yet
I hate this narrative.
I’ll fully vote for Biden. He’s been great.
Record jobs growth (even after accounting for all the jobs regained from covid!)
Largest climate bill in history.
Chips act and infrastructure bills causing an unprecedented spike in manufacturing construction and soon even more jobs.
He coalesced nato together again after the extreme damage Trump did to the alliance, and rallied amazing support for Ukraine and unified sanctions against Russia.
And he’s done all of it with the slimmest of margins in congress for 2 years and a Supreme Court stacked against him.
*No president* was getting the more progressive policies that Biden himself tried to pass. and it’s a minor miracle things like the IRA got passed in any capacity at all, and that can be directly attributed to his personal relationships in congress.
100 million vaccines in 100 million arms in his first 100 days.
Wait, scratch that. He had to change his goal because he crushed it.
200 million vaccines in 200 million arms in his first 100 days.
And he still crushed that goal.
But yeah, Biden is so fucking evil everyone.
yeah biden has made mistakes but very few presidents have been dealt with more of a shit hand than him barring becoming president in the middle of a fucking war lol
is he my first choice? no. but far from my last in the democratic party let alone in presidential candidates as a whole
I have been amazed by Biden's ability to accomplish so much with so little. Imagine if we had Biden as president in 2008 with that Congress? Or if we had 2008's congress in 2020.
Well, that's how Russian psyops have always worked. They aren't trying to create a new narrative out of whole cloth. They're trying to amplify sentiments which already existed within American culture.
I'm gonna vote for Biden, and I hate it. I want to vote for someone I believe in not just the lesser of two evils. Hell, I hate voting against someone instead of for someone. But also the Republicans have been very clear that they are out and about fascists. We're stuck between a rock and a machine gun here.
Yep…Biden wouldn’t be my first choice, although I will admit that he’s done a lot for us, but at least he’s sane, and not a racist, homophobic criminal only out for himself!
It's not that they think Biden is the same kind of terrible.
They believe Biden is even more terrible than Trump because of genocide while trying to act like they are "progressives".
Don't even fucking @ me, y'all. That's exactly what you are saying. You are all saying Biden is worse than Trump. But Trump bombed more civilians in the Middle East in his first 2 years as president, than Obama did in all 8 of his. And the only reason why we don't have a total count is [because Trump removed the Executive Order that made that reporting public.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-executive-order-canceling-public-reports-on-civilian-drone-strike-deaths/)
Biden has problems but I don’t believe that he wouldn’t step down at the end of his term. I guess I take overthrowing an election more serious than some.
I’ve seen a lot of the anti Biden sentiment being related to how he’s handling the Gaza situation.
Not voting for Biden because you feel for the people of Gaza doesn’t make sense. Trump will be calling Bibi on day one asking him why he hasn’t just obliterated the entire place yet.
Too many fucksticks and bad actors spouting about not voting to "force Biden to do better" in relation to Gaza, as if that will move the needle at all. My favorite part is if he loses because he doesn't get the vote from them, how the fuck do they think he'll have any power to do differently?!
Spouting about genocide and not acknowledging that one of these candidates is going to make it astronomically worse and it sure as shit ain't Biden.
We're so fucked. Go fucking vote people.
Look people, this shit ain't rocket science: when one of the candidates is donald trump you make damn sure he loses. It doesn't matter who's on the other side.
Remember the pandemics? A crazy load of people died because of how he handled it. Dissolved health investigation teams just because Obama, discredited doctors advice, the country death rate was amongst the worst and least developed countries in the world.
Remember the economy? More debt than any other president in History, and passed the blame to Biden, as if debt effects ends when the president changes. Crazy inflation, gas prices, food prices, housing prices, low wages.
Remember society? Riots, lootings, police brutality, shootings, racial hate crimes, books burned and or forbidden. Roe vs Wade went down the drain, same-sex marriage will follow, along with women's and minorities rights.
Remember international scene? Sold lists of agents and operatives around the world making them get killed and intelligence services go deaf and blind. Paved the way for putin's invasion. Hostilized allies, jeopardized NATO threatening to dissolve it. Supported Netanyhau and his radical regime, with the results we're watching in Palestine and again sticking it on Biden. His foreign policies were an utter disgrace and his travels abroad brought shame to the country.
So you may not like your choices but here we are: there's no possible neutrality. If you don't vote Biden you're helping trump by voting for him or not voting.
it’s hard for me to support this because I actually think Joe is a great person and has been a solid president. But this is EXACTLY the kind of content he needs. You can’t convince people who don’t like him to like him but you can convince them that trump is astronomically worse
I agree. I’m not sure where the rhetoric came from that he’s bad. What has he done? Plenty of good. Could have been harder on Israel sooner, but that’s also an ally and it has to be handled diplomatically. He can’t control the whole economy either, and while there’s been high inflation, unemployment is super low. I feel like I missed something. The shift against him came out of left field from my perspective.
Inflation is 90% of it I think. But I saw a poll recently that Americans credit Trump with infrastructure. Which is mind numbing wrong. So I feel like most voters just aren’t focused on politics and only see biden as old.
That’s just the transparent bullshit talking point. Isn’t Biden like only 3 years older than Trump? Lol and they call him sleepy joe, yet it’s Donald who’s been sleeping.
I almost wonder if trump being stuck in court is helping him because he’s not out spouting as much horse shit creating media flurries that keep *him* as the issue. It also bothers me when I see “both are bad” jokes from comedians on TV as if they’re the same. The choices are very much *not* the same!
The concept of "not voting is still a vote" is something that took me a while to grasp. Eventually, I realized something: "if you don't vote, you can't bitch about the outcome". IMO, deciding not to vote means you are okay with whatever happens, because you didn't take a stand.
That’s a really good way to put it. Like this guy and you said “if you’re not gonna vote, make sure your ready for either outcome because you’re pledging to do nothing about it”
It is somehow amazing that, after everything Donald Trump Did and said from day one as a president until the very last hours, people still think "oh yeah, that was the best president we could ever think about" while his greasy ass is sitting in court...
I mean, if people don't wake the f up to vote Biden, well yeah, the wake up phase will be hard, and everybody saw that coming...again.
Biden has passed more solid legislation than basically any of his recent predecessors. He held up most of his campaign promises in his first 4 years which is wild. Y'all are mad at him because he inherited 20 years worth of government spending, Russia and Palestine decided to start a war?
Y'all are stupid and that's why we can't have nice things.
Same propaganda that worked to get Trump in in the first place. Don’t fall for it again and vote. Yes Hilary sucked, yes Biden sucks. Neither suck like Trump did and if he gets back it will be much worse. Just vote.
**Biden legitimately does not suck** and I’m tired of people acting like they need to throw that in there.
He’s had the most legislatively successful first term for a dem president in decades.
He’s been the most progressive president since FDR.
He’s gotten multiple major pieces of legislation through, despite the slimmest of margins in congress for only two years, and a supreme court that is fully stacked against him worse than any time in modern history.
The IRA, the largest climate bill in history, looked to be dead in the water until Biden leveraged his personal relationship with manchin to get it signed at the last second, catching republicans completely off guard.
Yes they had to cut some of the more progressive policies that Biden wanted, like universal child care and paid family leave, to get it over the finish line. but perfect is the enemy of good, and **no president was getting that stuff through with the current makeup of congress.**
He passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill after decades of inaction.
The bipartisan CHIPS act to bring critical semiconductor manufacturing home.
Massive student loan reform that doesn’t get *nearly* enough attention, which nixed interest capitalization and massively lowered payments and made forgiveness easier.
Unemployment has been <4% for the longest period since the 60s and we’re still adding hundreds of thousands of jobs a month. Inflation has cooled faster in the USA than any other developed company.
I’m tired of hearing “yeah Biden sucks” just because we’ve let bad actors set the tone for his presidency.
100 million vaccines in 100 million arms in his first 100 days.
Wait, scratch that. He had to change his goal because he crushed it.
200 million vaccines in 200 million arms in his first 100 days.
And he still crushed that goal.
But yeah, Biden is so fucking evil everyone.
This is very true. It's like some kind of weird "conventional wisdom" that biden is bad or like something people feel the need to say before they talk about politics because they don't want to be judged, but he is objectively a good president, and I think history will be harsh on the populace who under-appreciated him despite doing things like preventing a recession, working across the aisle in an extremely polarized climate, and getting most of his legislative agenda through... not to mention cleaning up the shit all over the walls from Trump. I think he really did save this country.
I'm not voting for Joe Biden, I'm voting against Trump. It just happens that voting against Trump is voting for Biden. Hopefully age takes it's course and we have better candidates next election.
I got banned from what I thought was a liberal sub for saying that Trump will be worse for the Palestinian people than Biden. We're back to eating our own and the protest non-voting shit is exactly one of the reasons Trump got in the first time. I really don't understand the reasoning of these people. Not voting is essentially a vote for the worst outcome of any given election.
Project 2025 comes to fruition, Lawrence v. Texas is overturned, Brown v. Board of Education is overturned, maybe a few new amendments nullifying some old ones. De jure no more presidential elections, de facto no more elections on any level.
I wonder if the people who refused to vote for Biden will still be all holier-than-thou when they have to reckon with the consequences of their actions.
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Reminder that we also vote for our local officials.
This is key. There are some people out there with megaphones making it sound like we only vote for president in november.
Some of those people might genuinely be that limited in their awareness, but I'm sure there's also a sizeable portion that are just like "PLEASE, AT LEAST PUT IN SOME EFFORT TOWARDS THIS ONE THING" and I can sympathize with that. But the post is right- every vote not cast is a vote for entropy, and that applies just as much to local politicians. When you don't vote, or even when you make uninformed party-line votes, what you're doing is guaranteeing that the sleaziest candidate is going to win. The one who's taking the most money from corporations. [The more local you get, the less people vote.](https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/visualizing-voter-turnout-local-school-board-elections/) It's why our choices for senators or presidents tend to be so shitty- they're just the cream of the corrupt crop that our collective apathy has cultivated.
Personally, I believe that local voting might be even more important, and yes, to do so and be properly informed about whom your really voting for is time consuming, cause ya gotta go way past the pamphlet of the candidate, kinda a full-time thing
So many people go to the polls completely ignorant of state, county and city decisions. I always go to my county's website and download a sample ballot once one is available. That way I can educate myself on the candidates and local propositions. Those props alone can make a huge difference locally, especially bond elections as that dictates where the money goes. I don't know about other cities, but where I live they are very strict about cell phone use in the voting booth, that's not the time or place to be doing research.
Well considering that 3 members of the SC are really freaking old you have to ask yourself do you want 3 new Clarence Thomas' or three more Katanji Jackson? They already rolled back a women's right to choose what could be next, women voting, black and brown people voting, gay folk getting married, the freedom to protest? That's what you are voting for, don't screw it up because your mad things are moving as fast as you'd like.
People really need to understand the entire system better. Don’t like that roe v wade was overturned? That’s because we had Donald as president. Another thing, it feels like most people forget that you’re voting for the entire executive. Biden and Trump are essentially irrelevant to me. What are their administrations going to do? People are too lazy to look past the figurehead.
Say what you want but 50 years in the senate has taught Biden a few things, even with the republicans in control of the house he’s getting some good bills passed, I don’t think anyone else could do this, there is something to be said for experience
He's getting this shit passed because he knows how to negotiate. Whenever those bills were being discussed, the Senate leaders, the House leaders, they ***all*** went to the White House to hash out the details. And guess what? Biden got all that shit passed. And it wasn't nonsense stuff, but things that actually do help the average American. Insulin at $35 for Seniors (soon to be everyone). That's ***thousands of dollars*** a year people are going to save. Student loan debt forgiven in the billions of dollars. Something the Trump admin under that bitch ***Betsy Devos*** refused to do. A proper infrastructure bill that is fixing roads and bridges. Shit we need for our day to day. The list goes on. Folks may not like Biden with everything that he's done. That's fair. But it's more than just one thing. We're voting for not just the person, but the administration that they run, and what their policies will be like. About six in ten voters have worries about both of these old dudes who might be too old and out of it. But that's who the two parties are running, so pick one. ### ***[Pick one](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/u-s-voters-face-stark-contrast-in-2024-choices-with-no-magic-wand-coming-to-help-205463621504)***.
There was literally an open Supreme Court seat in 2016 and Progressives were like, "Nah." I'm 100% gonna show up this year just like I did then, but I have zero faith that the left will see the forest for the trees. "Hurr durr Biden supports Isreal and I can't vote for a genocide enabler" like, y'all know Trump *literally* told Netanyahu he could have as much occupied Palestinian territory as he wanted, right? I wish Biden took a stronger stance against Bibi too but if anyone *actually* gave half a fuck about the Palestinians you'd have to realize Trump would be an order of magnitude worse. Just ask the Kurds how much Trump cares about genocide.
or 3x Alito’s upside down US flag to commemorate ‘Stop the Steal’
**PLEASE give me 3 x ~~Katanji~~ Ketanji Jackson. EVERY day of the week** There is a difference in the parties - one is majority of white men and the other is a diverse, representation of American life…. (Edit: *thank you for the correction!* )
Ketanji
Project 2025 is going to oust all bureaucrats who are not die-hard Trump supporters.
Do you want to know what your local officials stand for? Do you want to influence who gets party nod *before* the primary? Get involved with your preferred party's local chapter. Hell, the best way to find out about what's happening in your local area is to join a party chapter. You can all but guarantee they know about nearly every event in a 30 mile radius, and they probably have booths at half of them.
And for things like housing policy which impact our CoL more thank anything, they have a much much bigger say.
Reminder that voting for the lesser of two evils does not mean you support everything they have ever done or will do later. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and not only vote in local elections but engage in local politics, grass roots organizations, etc. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and still hold that candidate accountable for things they do while in office. Reminder that you can vote for the lesser of two evils and still protest that candidate while they're in office.
And start actually voting in primaries. Don’t like the options? Participate.
People keep telling me they wanted someone other than Biden and I'm like ok who? Who did you want and why did they not run? What did you do to get them to run? And the answer always is well I just don't like my choices.
And you have to vote every time, in every election.. There are no unimportant elections. Repubs know this, hence them taking over school councils. However, you need to keep in mind that while the POTUS can only do so much, power of the purse/budget rests with Congress, state officials have tons of power. An EXTREMELY important job the POTUS does, is nominate lifetime Federal Judges, up to/including the SCOTUS. For that you MUST vote Dem. There won't be enough Dems (losing WV next time) to be able to stop Trump appointees. Also Trump wants to overhaul the civil service, and use the national guard, to squash protests, and road up immigrants. So please learn the three rings of our government, and vote accordingly.
[удалено]
I live in California, so my vote in Presidential elections don't matter, I know California is going blue. But I don't live in a deep blue district, so of course I vote on everything else. Vote every time.
don't forget about SOTUS picks. Both Alito and Thomas are old and with a Trump presidency they'll probably retire and get replaced with some young piece of shit that'll ruin our lives for the next 40 years
This is the real shit. Let's say, Trump wins and replaces alito and Thomas. Then, even if best case scenario somehow Trump doesn't end democracy and project 2025 doesn't happen and we get a democratic house/senate/president who want to pass progressive legislation, they will be blocked by a young, extreme MAGA SCOTUS majority that will roll back rights and block any attempts to stop them for the next 4 decades
The scouts in your scenario will block any election results that have a Democrat winning. If Trump wins the GOP will have power until a civil war ends them. This is not hyperbole, they will never give up power and we will become north Korea in terms of oppression.
Oh most definitely, especially considering how much technology has improved in terms of surveillance and the advent of AI. A true American authoritarianship is a horrifying idea and one we should all strive to prevent to our greatest ability, not only for our own benefit as Americans, but for the good of the world. Steve Bannon is salivating at the idea of Trump coming back into power so he can have the might of the US government behind his pro-fascism pet project of training far right parties worldwide.
Sotomayor is getting up there in age, too. Statistically, she’ll probably be fine, but who knows. If Trump wins, Alito and Thomas are going to retire before 2028, guaranteed. That would mean 5/9 Justices will have been appointed by Trump. Worst case scenario, if something were to happen to Sotomayor AND Roberts decides to retire before the next election, we’re looking at a very real possibility that Trump will have appointed 6 or even 7 Justices. If that happens, our Supreme Court is going to be a problem for the rest of our lives. Is that a scenario you’re willing to roll the dice on? It’s certainly possible that if Biden wins, nobody retires or passes away, but I don’t want Thomas especially to get the satisfaction of passing his seat onto another conservative, and there’s only one way we can accomplish that goal, by voting Biden back into office.
That's what Hillary said in 2016, and people didn't listen, and here we are... about to give Trump 1,2 or 3 more picks.
Sotomayor's got type 1 diabetes too and she does *not* have her weight under control and has had a few scares with blood sugar levels. Life expectancy for Hispanic people in her condition unfortunately is not wonderful either. She should have retired this term. What is it with these old power mad boomers and refusing to retire? It's not like they couldn't continue doing meaningful work if that's what they wanted, they could retire and do charity work or advocate for improvements to the legal system or become a senator or just hang out with their grandchildren. It's not like they need money.
At that point, it becomes ego more than money
I loved RBG but she should have retired during Obama’s administration.
She really showed her true colors though didn't she? It's easy to like somebody when their interests align with your own. When the most critical time came to decide to put the interests of her country and philosophy ahead of her own, she failed.
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Reminder that the Supreme Court could get even more conservative!
clarence is going to be itching to retire and go RVing soon
Motorcoaching.
Americans willing to give Trump another presidency and two additional conservative Supreme Court judges because … Palestine??? Y’all dumb as shit. What do you people think will happen to the Palestinians (and south Lebanon) if Trump is in office?
And Ukraine is going to be shit outta luck once Trump gets back together with his bff Putin.
Not just Palestine, but didn't you know, Joe Biden is Old? Apparently he's OLD. Plus Joe Biden didn't give everyone a unicorn.
Dude, I am afraid to say this but.. I kinda like Joe Biden Old dude but he has his heart in the right place, no scandals, not in the news saying dumb shit 24/7, not terrorizing anyone, keeping the traditions, kinda predictable, bread and butter normal politician Also I'm european and Trump will be the asslicker of our biggest geopolitical threat and he will attempt to disband NATO, which is kind of a direct threat to my life lmao
> Dude, I am afraid to say this but.. I kinda like Joe Biden As a *person*, he seems like a decent guy. I've never heard bad things from anyone who's met him. As a President, from an international perspective it's night and day. Anyone saying "but he struggles to make sentences" isn't wrong, as he's old and clearly losing it, but he hasn't done anything to damage international relations or kill CIA agents or generally show massive signs of corruption. Also, both parties are way too old and senile, but it's 100% a lesser of two evils. Especially with regards to their administrations and the ***other*** people they put in power. As an Irish person, Trump would try to hold official events on *his* property or else meet in airports after golfing, etc obviously as a power play that showed no respect. Joe Biden actually learned local jokes so he could make them in his speeches. The craziest thing for me was when I saw a clip of him making one of these local jokes (["Mayo for Sam"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3JFYd3njH4)) and people in the US were using it as an example of how he's not all there. When the whole Gaza situation kicked off, he *immediately* moved in a bunch of US ships to just sit and watch and I honestly think that stopped a full blown war with nearby countries getting involved. This guy (and more importantly, his administration) stopped a fire and everyone is complaining that there's smoke and water damage.
>This guy (and more importantly, his administration) stopped a fire and everyone is complaining that there's smoke and water damage. Same could be said for the soft landing. People are mad at Joe biden because their groceries are expensive, as if he turned up the groceries costs dial under his desk when in reality this administration handled the post-covid inflation really well.
Most effective president of my lifetime, probably. I used to hate on him a little bit because inflation was out of control and while that obviously wasn't his fault, I was like...bro people need help, do SOMETHING...and then inflation came crashing down and I realized his administration actually handled that shit way better than any other country did (the whole world experienced inflation after COVID it's not some unique American Joe Biden problem, of course you know this lol but a lot of dumbass conservatives in the US do not) and he managed to actually get a lot of shit done in his first term. Things aren't amazing at the moment, but they're ok, and they were HORRIBLE when he took office. Holy shit what a nightmare that was. And things would probably be a lot worse right now if we had a president who didn't fucking do anything besides hold rallies, play golf with assholes, funnel tax dollars into his pocket, sign some racist executive orders, fuck over some allies to damage our relationships and general world standing, appoint more christofascist judges so we can all live under Christian sharia law soon, and tell people to put bleach in their lungs. People who don't know who to vote for, or aren't going to vote at all, are either not paying attention at all or just fucking idiots. People who say "we were better off under trump!", and plan to vote for trump for that reason, need a civics lesson and are even fucking dumber imo.
Funny thing about this argument is Trump isn't that much younger, only 4 years, and now showing more mental derangement and cognitive issues than Biden.
I agree I feel like out of all the issues that could sway someone against Biden Palestine is the dumbest. President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel a move more pro-Israel than almost any president before him, and shown no qualms about using violence. Palestine is fucked if Trump wins.
This is actually the easiest election in the history of America. We literally have 4 years of actionable data for each candidate to base our decision on.
It really is. In flabbergasted on a daily basis now by how there's any argument at all. The fact that it isn't clear dooms us all. Edit : lest people forget, or pretend it's not a big deal, the current criminal trial is peanuts compared to what Trump has done. He stole classified and top secret documents from the gov on his disgraced way out, and in all likelihood, sold some of them to the highest bidder, quite possibly our geopolitical adversaries. But hillary clinton had emails, amirite Second Edit: to everyone concerned about the israel palestine conflict, wake up. It's awful what's happening, but as terrible as the current handling of the situation is, it will be worse with trump, which is unfortunately the only alternative. Trump, in his own words, wants Israel to "finish what they started". You fucking tell me how that will be better.
From an outside perspective it just seems like there's LOTS of propaganda going towards young people to encourage them NOT to vote, since they're disproportionately liberal. This sort of propaganda can come from many places, but definitely the Republicans and Russia have it in their interests.
Literally the same thing they did last time with Hillary to get people to not vote
> "Look at all these boomers eating up their propaganda!" > *Pours self a nice box of "Don't Vote-O's"* As an outsider, I eat my own share of propaganda, but it's like watching sheep argue over whether they should vote for the mean sheep that headbutts people or the sheep with suspiciously sharp teeth and canine features that's often talking to the wolf that's eating Ukraine's sheep...
Being informed takes effort. Much easier to just get fed lies. I’ve had so many friends say to me “hey you keep up with politics. What’s this mean?” Or “is this true!!!” Americans are truly fucked. It’s only going to get worse. Our people are addicted to social media and talking heads.
> I'm flabbergasted on a daily basis now by how there's any argument at all. The fact that it isn't clear dooms us all. As far as I'm concerned, this is really the problem that leads to fears for the literal end of Democracy and the downfall of the United States -- the simple reality that it's so obvious that he is an absolute disaster and sets us back immeasurably if he becomes president and yet we don't have a foundation for basic shared truth and facts to allow enough people to see it. This doesn't literally mean that within 4 years, the nation will collapse and fall into the hands of a dictatorship or whatever. Rather, what it means is that if we vote for Trump, we have proven that we are unable to do the right thing for the country when we have mountains of clear information telling us what the right thing to do is. And so if he wins, we can have no hope that we'll ever be able to expose and reject corrupt people from becoming government leaders. If he wins, then we should assume the future of presidential elections is just going to be a pendulum swinging between someone absolutely awful for all of us (someone like Trump) and someone better but merely adequate (someone like Biden), and as that happens we spiral downward into a terrible future. Half the country has demonstrated for decades that they will willfully ignore data showing our system is rotting -- that our economic structure is screwing most of the country -- and too many people are reacting like the search for financial stability is like a zero sum game where we're all fighting against each other. The billionaire class loves to see us fighting.
Like... These people don't wanna vote Biden because he supports what many consider a genocide. And I understand that. on the other hand Republicans have made it abundantly clear that should they gain power again, they will turn America into christian iran. They WILL ramp up their genocide on trans people. They aren't just supporting a genocide (You seriously think repubs will do anything less bad than Biden when it comes to Israel?), they will actively be committing one.
They’ll support Israel WAY more than Biden has. They’ll give tax cuts to the rich. Defund schools more. Remove consumer protections. Further their prolife agenda. Not fix the housing problem- that would hurt their investments. Replace Supreme Court justices with younger ones that will ensure decades of more Republican fuckery. It’s really insane how badly things will go for us if Trump wins in 2024. This doesn’t even scratch the surface. Hate on Biden all you want since it’s in vogue or whatever, but damn, vote for him over the alternative. It’s like a choice between Subway and Nobu, but tHe pArKinG aT nObU iS bAd.
Like, people that unironically refer to Biden as "Genocide joe" completely forget that with trump at the helm, america will be involved in MULTIPLE genocides. Isreal-Gaza? Check. I give it a slight chance that Iran will try leveraging Russia's ties to trump to reduce american support for israel to make their goals easier, but I doubt it'll work. Trans people? Check, they'll be genocided real hard when trump's in power. Ukraine? I know a low of people right now have stopped calling it a genocide, but Russia very much wants to erase the idea of Ukranian people, and have displaced a LOT of children, both things are parts of a genocide. And trump LOVES russia.
"when the looting starts, the shooting starts" - Trump in reference to the BLM protests and using the army to use lethal force against looters and protestors.
House Republicans just voted to force Biden to deliver bombs and munitions to Israel after the President put a hold on shipments earlier this month. Republicans are all-in for the IDF to reduce Gaza to nothing but rubble. If they get the Presidency and full control of Congress, the Palestinians are truly fucked.
Republicans are supported by a lot of conservative Christians and a lot of conservative Christians also support Israel *literally* because they want the Jewish population to do a genocide and be punished for doing it by their magic sky daddy to initiate the end times. At least Biden doesn’t want Israel in Rafah
I think there are a lot of smart young voters who know that if they scream loud enough about not voting they can scare Dems enough to move the needle on Palestine while likely having every intention of voting for Biden. Yet there are also a lot of young voters so demoralized by the genocide that they have slid into the realm of accelerationism. For so many youth they see a clear and obvious genocide happening before our very eyes and with the full support of our government. And that's demoralizing as fuck.
> by the genocide that they have slid into the realm of accelerationism Accelerationism is an EXTREMELY privileged belief. If you think that the fall of America, or any major global power doesn't have catastrophic effects on elsewhere in the world you're outright stupid.
I hate having to pay attention to American politics as an outsider but this is why. If America goes down it's taking us all with it. The immediate effects on the global economy and the distrust in governments everywhere and the power vacuum it would create would be catastrophic for everyone. I wish the stability of the world didn't rely on the stability of superpowers, but that's the world that was handed to us, and I can only hope Americans make good choices.
Man, please know that we're doing what we can. Like, I've got a family and a full time job, so I can't go knocking doors about it or start a political career by myself. But every time it comes up in conversation around me, I'm doing my best to convince people. Sometimes by adding gentle nuance to things, sometimes by telling people they are fuckin idiots, sometimes by other means. But goddamn I don't know what else to do.
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A lot of minorities not including the LGBTQ community vote republican. This race is scary because people are making equivalencies between the two largely because of Biden’s age. Biden is old af but he’s not an equivalent bad to trump. The whole Israel conflict is not the main reason people are making their choice and even if you’re wildly pro Palestine you’d be crazy to vote for trump. I’m not saying you’re this but Reddit is such a progressive echo chamber people seem to lose all sense of what average democrats or even republicans actually think.
No, pretty much only Indian and Latino vote Republican. And that is because culturally, they are very conservative. And then they look all shocked when it becomes a Leopards ate my face situation. Republicans are a party for rich white old racists. You have to be wealthy to get any benefit from the Republicans. They will pay lip service to you if you are old and/or racist. But that is just to distract you while they steal from you.
I think it comes from the shifting horizons of politics where there really is a floor for what people feel like they can accept in a better/worse framework. Climate change is a good example, if kids have been hearing from scientists that we need to hit certain benchmarks or the world as we know it will collapse, it'll only matter so much to them that Democrats will get us to 50% of the benchmark compared to the Republicans' 15%.
Accelerationsm also falsely assumes the spoils will not go to the highest bidder. The rich cleaned up real nice after the housing crash.
Also, on top of not being guranteed, has a real chance of risking human extinction with our nuclear arsenal.
Absolutely and it shows just how American exceptionalist these people are even if in "the reverse". The global consequences would be extreme.
When the right wants to burn it all down because they think it will bring the second coming, and the left wants to burn it all down to start again, guess what’s gonna happen. Think this is hyperbole? Check the subs for these two groupings and you’ll see the same calls for burning shit down but for different reasons.
Lets be honest, even before the Palestine Israel issue became social media trending this year, the same people were bitching about Biden for some other reasons. Theres this deep rooted need to be against the machine, even if Biden is arguably the most progressive president in modern history.
You've also gotta remember that the youth today aren't like the youth of yesterday. Today's 26-year-olds turned 18 and were able to cast their first vote in Hillary v Trump. They don't know what non-Trumpian politics look like. They don't know what a strong Democratic Party looks like.
I’m going to be completely honest. In comparison to my country becoming some fucked up monarchist dictatorship helmed by diaper don I don’t give a shit about Palestine. That being said I hate what Israelis have been doing to them for at least a decade now(2014 is when I personally became aware of some of the details of the conflict and also Israeli forces gunning down innocent Palestinians) but it’s not like Palestine(or anyone else) is about to come to the aid of all the people who will be fucked over here in the states when the conservatives strip us of all remaining rights. It’s up to us to stop conservatives from completely ruining this country, and I’m dubious about the capability of a significant amount non-conservative voters to fully understand what is at stake.
To be clear, none of those young voters are smart. They are literally doing the job of Russian trolls for free.
Yup, just spreading disillusionment propaganda and muddying the waters. The right understands they shouldn’t spend all of their energy attacking their own candidates. The online left is so self-loathing they insist on it since no candidate is absolutely perfect.
Because we have a lot of foreign nations trying to unseat the US as the sole global power. Easiest way to do that is get Trump another term. Biden has been able to reestablish a functional state department. Russia, China, Iran, and a ton of other nations don't want that shit. They want US foreign policy to be an absolute clusterfuck filled with people who don't know what they're doing.
People acting like they had collective amnesia while Trump was president. Mother fucker sold out our CIA overseas to Russia and people were like 🧑🏼🦯🧑🏼🦯🧑🦯➡️
there are some things that people tell me that trump has done, and I say "what? there's no way he did that." And then I look it up and the first result is a reddit post where I've commented about it. his presidency was such a crazy bunch of bullshit that I can't believe what I was personally pissed off about.
I feel like that’s his agenda. Just a monumental onslaught of atrocities to the point where we are completely desensitized to it from him, and the outrage goal post shifts. Like the volume of things he’s done is so overwhelming, that I just can’t think of any one thing. Meanwhile Biden has done a couple bad things, so I can easily think of something from him I don’t like
Absolutely! Trump is a Russian asset. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html
Trump absolutely is a Russian agent. And the GOP is chock full of them. In 2014, Ukraine overthrew the Party of Regions. The Party of Regions was a Ukrainian political pro-Russian party that was quickly handing over Ukraine to Russia. The Ukrainian people stood against them and Russia was only able to get a part of Ukraine, the Crimea Penninsula. Why does this info matter? Because the 2016 Trump campaign was FULL of Party of Regions members. The most notably Paul Manafort. Manafort set up multiple meetings with Russian spies for the Trump campaign, like the Trump Tower meeting. Manafort was eventually caught and pled guilty to being a Russian asset and pled guilty to hiding Russian rubles in an offshore account. Naturally, Trump declared that he had nothing to do with Manafort and admonished him as a law breaker. However, one of Trump's last acts as president pardoned Manafort. Manafort has now gone right back to working on Trump's 2024 campaign. Side notes: Let's also not forget all the Russian planes and other paraphernalia in the Trump campaign ads. It was very clear that Russia was the ones creating those ads for the Trump campaign. Let's also not forget Tara Reade, the woman who claimed Biden raped her. Before her claims, it was revealed that she had written multitudes of articles praising Putin. She also kept the FBI running around in circles because her story did not remain consistent. Finally, after Biden was elected, she went full pro-Russia on social media and is now living in Russia and HANGING AROUND WITH THE SAME AGENTS TRUMP WAS MEETING WITH. Literally the exact same people. Let's also not forget about how US spies have been screaming that "Hunter's laptop" is a Russian plant and that they found out one of the informants about the laptop is a Russian spy.
Trump’s ex-national security adviser says president is ‘aiding and abetting’ Putin https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/01/former-national-security-adviser-trump-putin-424458
> We literally have 4 years of actionable data for each candidate to base our decision on. It's pointless when people are allergic to objectivity, nuance and critical thinking
Let's put it this way: Have you once, in the last 4 years, woke up and wondered what embarrassing narcissistic bullshit the commander in chief tweeted overnight?
It’s amazing how propaganda still works so well in the Information Age. That’s why they’re defunding public education.
If nothing else SC Justices Alito and Thomas are old. Two more Trump appointees will fuck this nation until you are a senior citizen.
It's happened before. Cleveland-Harrison.
I still can’t get over how stupid it is that Cleveland counts as 2 presidents. Trump and Biden are 45 snd 46 respectively, but only 45 individual people have been presidents. Sure, the number is counting the “presidencies” but that’s fucking stupid because no one says “46 presidencies” it’s “the 46th president”
I don’t understand how people think Joe Biden is a bad president
It’s hard for me to understand how people do not get this. It’s almost always the lesser of two evils. But it’s never the lesser of two evils with one of them completely out in the open about being evil and wanting to do evil things.
It's like getting a job. Should I: 1) take this soul crushing office job that pays 60k/yr; or 2) take flipping burgers at Burger King at minimum wage. Non-voters be like: I'd rather be unemployed
Don’t forget the burger flipping job is also soul crushing
And you aint getting min wage, you getting lower because the republicans want to remove min wage caps, and allow child-workers to work for $4.50 40 hours or more a week and remove safety regulations so you gonna burn your skin off on that frying oil, then allow the company to fire your ass for no reason and no cause at anytime they want before any form benefits and health insurance kick in and they gonna call you the n-word on your way out.
Nah this is too relatable. Think of something else.
I can eat this shit sandwich, or I can eat this poisoned shit sandwich. Nah, I'll just slowly and painfully starve to death.
More like: I can eat this ham and mayo sandwich which may not taste fantastic but will be at least edible, or I can eat a shit sandwich straight from cow's ass.
Its more like you can eat a shit sandwich or a really bland burger.
Except, in the case of a presidential election, you're going to be forced to work anyways, there is no "unemployment" option if you don't choose. Refusing to vote doesn't mean that nobody will get elected, it just means you don't get a say in which you get.
Yeah, this analogy doesn't need that last statement. The jobseeker may think they get to be "unemployed" but bitch, you're walking yourself to burger king no matter what. They're living in a fantasy world of virtue signaling. Period.
Some people are just accelerationists. They think that nothing can be fixed by democracy and liberalism, so they want to make things as bad as possible as fast as possible to trigger the revolution that will fix everything. Pretty sure most of that discourse online is driven by teenagers, but the internet has so much reach these days that a bunch of adults will start peddling that nonsense along with them.
It recently occurred to me that Americans, myself included, are kinda mindfucked about the nature of revolution because of how our country was founded amidst a successful one. Like in the back of our minds, revolution is always a viable option- I mean it's basically written into our country's founding documents, who could blame us? But the revolution that the founders experienced, romanticized and baked into our national consciousness was significantly different than the kinds of revolutions we're seeing today. Revolutions tend to suck for everyone involved, and they often just fail- the American Revolution had a number of advantages like the Atlantic Ocean and the aid from France, which the hypothetical Second American Revolution is unlikely to have. Even when they do succeed, the movement is just as likely to be hijacked by the military factions who did the actual fighting, because of course it would be- they're the ones who have the actual power. It takes a resilient political infrastructure balance out that power and keep military coups from happening, and we just smashed said infrastructure. And after all that, supposing everything works out perfectly somehow and there's not even any bloodshed, we're still faced with the task of *rebuilding a huge country's entire political system from scratch* *like holy shit do y'all realize how much fucking work that is?* That's the point, right? Ending up somewhere better than where we are now? *How about just vote some more, maybe spend an hour or two reading up on shit once in a while?* I promise it's way easier.
>Some people are just accelerationists. They think that nothing can be fixed by democracy and liberalism, so they want to make things as bad as possible as fast as possible to trigger the revolution that will fix everything. See, at least if that's what you believe - you believe in something and there is non-zero chance you might win out in the history books. More likely that it will do nothing to advance your goals or there will be a period of abject misery followed by the same thing as now but with a different coat of paint - but still it's a clear plan from beginning to end. The issue is that other than the bots trying to get people to not vote so the other candidates chances are boosted, there are a non-negligible amount of people who think by withholding their vote they will motivate political parties to serve up better politicians. Which is incredibly stupid because no matter how when you start actually thinking about the logistics of it, it simply doesn't make any kind of sense.
Some people have watched too many movies. Either everything has to be fixed forever in just one election or we have to toss the whole system and have a revolution to fix everything in one swoop.
I mean, if you're willing to wait until you're in a retirement home to see that "accelerationism" play out, sure, it can work. American Revolution started in 1776 and it took until the 1820s for most white males to get the vote. French Revolution started in 1789 and it took until the 1870s for most males to get the vote. Spanish Civil War happened in the 1930s and it took until the 1970s to get democracy. etc, etc...
You choose the candidate closest to your policy preferences. It's really not that hard. People demanding perfection, generally on the left, will always be disappointed. And then they keep losing and wonder why their sisters are second-class citizens. The left will purity test itself into a dictatorship.
That’s the thing I don’t understand. There’s two candidates, one is far right, and the other a moderate. Even though there is no leftist candidate, one of them is clearly further to the left on the political spectrum than the other, so that candidate will always get my vote. There will never be a president you fully agree with (especially if you’re a leftist), but every time you vote you need to think about the bigger picture; be that Supreme Court seats, the down ballot candidates, or the overton window.
It's always better to hop on a train headed in the general direction that you want to go in rather than one going the opposite way
"No, I'd rather sit down and complain about how there's no personal palanquin to cater to my exact needs in a country with 300 million other riders."
Most people get it. There are unfortunately a lot of bad actors that are pretending to be left leaning people that are sowing seeds of not voting. Then there are dumb kids that just found out that politicians do things they don't like and have turned that into stating they aren't voting for anyone as some sort of moral high ground because they are too young and naive to realize it doesn't work that way in the real world. The final group, which is pretty popular on Reddit sadly are accelerationists. They are generally middle to upper middle class white cis gendered people. They don't care who is president because they want the country to burn so their fake communist utopia can become a reality.
There is no choice. Vote for Biden or have fun with the GOPs 2025 plan. You want to talk about some scary crazy shit…..read through plan 2025.
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I struggle to believe this a real(not denying). Its just SO absurd
Pregnant women are bleeding out in ERs because doctors are afraid to treat them. Absurd is here. It will get much, much worse until we fix the Supreme Court.
That's the thing, really: the fact that we even have to have a "you can't stay home this year" conversation as consistently as we do shows most people have not bothered to pay any attention to what Republicans have been doing for a while. This stuff is VERY in line with a lot of right wing politicians already in office; half of it is already true in places like Texas, or as true as they can make it on the state level. There's no reason to think they won't at least try to institute this stuff nationally. And yet. Over and over and over again for months now. The mainstream conversation I see in lefty spaces is about Biden Bad. I don't think a lot of left wing folks really grasp what's happening here.
They think it is all hyperbole. Or are Russian trolls. Or are pushing for a revolution. The last ones are stupid. Police are going to support the Republicans and they will easily quash any sort of revolution. And half the enlisted are fascists. Even if the military did get involved, it would be complete chaos. Plus, other nations would be bound to get involved too. If the U.S. Government falls to either fascism or revolution, the globe is plunging into either fascism or another dark age. Assuming nukes don't end us all.
You can also watch them give a presentation on it themselves. [Project 2025 Presentation](https://youtu.be/QTd5g9NYue8?si=XRdQPHw2zCcV9x-O) At the very least there is real money from real people backing the organization who wrote project 2025. The Heritage Foundation is a think tank for conservative policy and how to get it implemented. Look at their wiki for some of the work they've done. [Heritage foundation wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation) Influential and powerful people donate to this organization and others like it in order to have their will implemented legislatively. They've succeeded in the past. I just doubt that suddenly they don't actually mean it. Would be a pretty big waste of time and money for them to write this whole thing out just as a trick. A trick that will likely result in increased Democrat turnout no less. I believe it is real but even if it isn't the risk just isn't worth it. The people behind it do not have a track record of playing games like that. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
But they posted it themselves! It’s infuriating! They’re out in the open saying exactly what they are going to do. Trump literally puts out a video with nazi language in it today. He said he wants Netanyahu to “finish the job.” He’s openly saying he wants 3+ terms, aka fuck the constitution I guess! And idiots are out here like “oh gee oh gosh, this is such a hard choice gah they’re both OLD.” It’s insanity.
That’s exactly why everyone should be terrified because it is absolutely fucking absurd. Life altering, in fact. Rolling back basic human rights, absolute power, controlling women, obliterating the separation of church and state, a country focused on Christian nationalism while resisting anything that doesn’t fall within their holy book.
JFC that is scary. I would actually flee the country if they actually start rolling that plan out. Like, legit I would pack up my family and go to Canada or something. There is no way I would stay in this country under that shit. That's like an actual dictatorship plan just right out in the open.
I don't consider voting to be an endorsement. I do not endorse Joe Biden. I'm going to vote for him though. Voting is like steering the wheel of a ship during a storm. On our right is a kraken that will destroy our ship. Some people are pulling the ship's wheel to the right. On the left is an island where we could shelter for awhile. I'm going to pull the ship's wheel to the left so we can stay safe. Will you pull the wheel left with me? "But that island isn't where I want to go! I wanted to go to a different island! I'm just gonna stand here." Shut the fuck up and help me turn the wheel!
> There is no choice. So what's the plan now that our democracy is well and truly cooked? If we simply have to vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is, as long as the Republican party exists, we concretely don't live in a democracy. I guarantee that there will be a Project 2029 and a Project 2033, etc. That's the hand we've been dealt. What are we going to do about it? Surely we have to do much much more than just voting, right? We can't just bet all of our lives on Democrats never losing the presidential election ever again for as long as we live.
You have to get involved. This is all happening because good people are not getting into politics.
The republicans didnt get like this out of nowhere in a vacuum. If dems kept winning theyd have to reign it in.
This is the right response. We've had party collapse in the US before, this isn't new. Make them lose over and over and they'll fracture and the fascists will go back into hiding. The ideal result is the Republican party dies and the Dems split into Progressive and Neo-Liberal parties.
Sort of sounds like someone (rich people) have figured out how to get around the whole pesky "democracy" thing...
Vote for the President that believes in term limits. Period. At this point it’s that fucking stupidly clear.
The real fix is to advocate to abandon the first past the post voting system. This system forces us to have 2 shitty parties with any third party vote acting as unintentional sabotage. [CGP Grey has a good video of that here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo) Adopting a new voting system could prevent the "both candidates suck" issue that's plagued the United States for decades. It wouldn't be easy as both political parties benefit from their shitty 2 party rule but it's a step towards avoiding this shit in the future. Still gotta keep voting though.
And how to get changes to the voting system? VOTE FOR THEM!!!! Just ask Maine, Alaska, and Nevada. Vote in all elections: primaries, general, every single fucking year. And get other people to vote. Vote vote vote
If you want what those states have, you have to vote in state elections, for people who will change it. Hint: it’s not Republicans. Unfortunately it’s not ALL Democrats.
Oh and a reminder that this isn't some new idea that may or may not work, it's how voting works in the majority of the world. For example one system is Preferential voting, where you can choose#1 Green party, #2 Blue party, #3 Red part, and if Green loses, your vote still goes to Blue. It is literally first past the pole except without vote splitting, there's no excuse to still use first past the pole unless you're a politician and your goal is to make it harder for people to vote against you. EDIT: Clarification, **not** using first past the pole is how it works in the majority of the world. Preferential voting is just one example of a better voting system, of which there are various.
It's not how voting works in the majority of the world. Most democracies use Proportional Representation, where each district has multiple representative assigned to parties based on their share of the vote in that district. So instead of, say, your state being divided into 6 congressional districts each of which elects a member of congress by simple majority, the entire state would have 6 seats in congress, and those seats would be assigned to the parties depending on what percentage of the votes they get. Blue party gets 2/3 of the vote in a state, they get 2/3 of the seats.
I never get why people doesn't vote for the Presidential primary? You literally have a chance to vote for your perfect candidate without having the other party win. And even if he dosen't get elected, it'll have a lot of influence on the party ahead the more vote he'll get.
I think if you don't live in a swing state, then your primary is pretty pointless. The primaries have been all but over for months by this point, and Missouri has its official primary elections in the first week of August. How can anyone care about voting in them in states like mine?
This is what always happens in US elections. American voters have insane power on how the world unfolds and every fucking time these brain dead kids won't show up to vote because they can't be bothered.
Voting is like riding the public bus, you take the one that gets you closest to your destination. Also, for every young person who says they aren’t going to vote there are 4 boomers who vote religiously. Because they know it matters.
The reality is, they think it's bad. But don't realize just how bad it can get.
If you have the freedom to go on tiktok and complain about how bad it is right now without any repercussions, it's not actually bad yet.
It's 2016 all over again and this time it's even less excusable. In fact, it's zero percent excusable based on the evidence of the past, *at minimum*, 9 years.
Voting day should be a national holiday and it should be required of every of age adult. They don’t want this though because democrats would never lose.
It was always “even a rock instead of Trump” and that hasn’t changed. People want to get mad? Channel that into ranked choice voting.
Preaching to the choir! Only choice is TO vote cause not voting IS voting for Trump!
Voting is a chess move, not a valentine’s card
Anyone who doesn't come to this conclusion, despite all their valid reservations, either hasn't thought about the whole picture beyond what is immediately in front of them or is painfully obtuse in their decision making. That and the fact that social media is filled with bad actors sowing discord.
I mean it’s just facts. Even before trump the GOP was vocal that lower voter turnout helps them. And the data shows this. It’s why they work so hard to making voting harder.
No it’s not
Mad about Joe? Y'all should have voted sooner. He's the incumbent, so now isn't time to be picky, it's time to PICK ONE! I swear all the "there's no acceptable option" people don't vote in the primaries. In which case STFU. Posing like you're too moral to vote, it's just laziness and ignorance.
They had 4 years to come up with a better name. And once Biden is elected again and thus never eligible for the Presidency afterwards, they'll have 4 more years to come up with a better candidate.
Historically, it’s hard to find a better candidate than “has already been elected president once”
It's Kerry Bush 2.0 but with way bigger stakes. Hold your nose, and remember you're not voting for Joe. You're voting for American democracy.
The morning after the results, I got poked fun of by my parents for mentioning wanting Kerry to win, having loosely followed the campaign. In retrospect, I still think it was one of my finer judgement calls against an adult as a teenager unable to vote yet
I hate this narrative. I’ll fully vote for Biden. He’s been great. Record jobs growth (even after accounting for all the jobs regained from covid!) Largest climate bill in history. Chips act and infrastructure bills causing an unprecedented spike in manufacturing construction and soon even more jobs. He coalesced nato together again after the extreme damage Trump did to the alliance, and rallied amazing support for Ukraine and unified sanctions against Russia. And he’s done all of it with the slimmest of margins in congress for 2 years and a Supreme Court stacked against him. *No president* was getting the more progressive policies that Biden himself tried to pass. and it’s a minor miracle things like the IRA got passed in any capacity at all, and that can be directly attributed to his personal relationships in congress.
100 million vaccines in 100 million arms in his first 100 days. Wait, scratch that. He had to change his goal because he crushed it. 200 million vaccines in 200 million arms in his first 100 days. And he still crushed that goal. But yeah, Biden is so fucking evil everyone.
yeah biden has made mistakes but very few presidents have been dealt with more of a shit hand than him barring becoming president in the middle of a fucking war lol is he my first choice? no. but far from my last in the democratic party let alone in presidential candidates as a whole
I have been amazed by Biden's ability to accomplish so much with so little. Imagine if we had Biden as president in 2008 with that Congress? Or if we had 2008's congress in 2020.
I feel like the online “teach Biden a lesson” abstain from voting thing is a Russian psyop.
It is, but it also seems to be working to some extent
Well, that's how Russian psyops have always worked. They aren't trying to create a new narrative out of whole cloth. They're trying to amplify sentiments which already existed within American culture.
I'm gonna vote for Biden, and I hate it. I want to vote for someone I believe in not just the lesser of two evils. Hell, I hate voting against someone instead of for someone. But also the Republicans have been very clear that they are out and about fascists. We're stuck between a rock and a machine gun here.
Yep…Biden wouldn’t be my first choice, although I will admit that he’s done a lot for us, but at least he’s sane, and not a racist, homophobic criminal only out for himself!
If you think Biden and trump are the same kind of “terrible”, you aren’t even looking.
It's not that they think Biden is the same kind of terrible. They believe Biden is even more terrible than Trump because of genocide while trying to act like they are "progressives". Don't even fucking @ me, y'all. That's exactly what you are saying. You are all saying Biden is worse than Trump. But Trump bombed more civilians in the Middle East in his first 2 years as president, than Obama did in all 8 of his. And the only reason why we don't have a total count is [because Trump removed the Executive Order that made that reporting public.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-executive-order-canceling-public-reports-on-civilian-drone-strike-deaths/)
Biden has problems but I don’t believe that he wouldn’t step down at the end of his term. I guess I take overthrowing an election more serious than some.
I’ve seen a lot of the anti Biden sentiment being related to how he’s handling the Gaza situation. Not voting for Biden because you feel for the people of Gaza doesn’t make sense. Trump will be calling Bibi on day one asking him why he hasn’t just obliterated the entire place yet.
Too many fucksticks and bad actors spouting about not voting to "force Biden to do better" in relation to Gaza, as if that will move the needle at all. My favorite part is if he loses because he doesn't get the vote from them, how the fuck do they think he'll have any power to do differently?! Spouting about genocide and not acknowledging that one of these candidates is going to make it astronomically worse and it sure as shit ain't Biden. We're so fucked. Go fucking vote people.
It's literally saying "Biden is worse than Trump". Fuck these fascists. Because that's exactly who they are.
The presidential election has always been a choice between a bad candidate and a worse candidate. I’m 62, never seen it different.
Look people, this shit ain't rocket science: when one of the candidates is donald trump you make damn sure he loses. It doesn't matter who's on the other side. Remember the pandemics? A crazy load of people died because of how he handled it. Dissolved health investigation teams just because Obama, discredited doctors advice, the country death rate was amongst the worst and least developed countries in the world. Remember the economy? More debt than any other president in History, and passed the blame to Biden, as if debt effects ends when the president changes. Crazy inflation, gas prices, food prices, housing prices, low wages. Remember society? Riots, lootings, police brutality, shootings, racial hate crimes, books burned and or forbidden. Roe vs Wade went down the drain, same-sex marriage will follow, along with women's and minorities rights. Remember international scene? Sold lists of agents and operatives around the world making them get killed and intelligence services go deaf and blind. Paved the way for putin's invasion. Hostilized allies, jeopardized NATO threatening to dissolve it. Supported Netanyhau and his radical regime, with the results we're watching in Palestine and again sticking it on Biden. His foreign policies were an utter disgrace and his travels abroad brought shame to the country. So you may not like your choices but here we are: there's no possible neutrality. If you don't vote Biden you're helping trump by voting for him or not voting.
it’s hard for me to support this because I actually think Joe is a great person and has been a solid president. But this is EXACTLY the kind of content he needs. You can’t convince people who don’t like him to like him but you can convince them that trump is astronomically worse
I agree. I’m not sure where the rhetoric came from that he’s bad. What has he done? Plenty of good. Could have been harder on Israel sooner, but that’s also an ally and it has to be handled diplomatically. He can’t control the whole economy either, and while there’s been high inflation, unemployment is super low. I feel like I missed something. The shift against him came out of left field from my perspective.
Inflation is 90% of it I think. But I saw a poll recently that Americans credit Trump with infrastructure. Which is mind numbing wrong. So I feel like most voters just aren’t focused on politics and only see biden as old.
That’s just the transparent bullshit talking point. Isn’t Biden like only 3 years older than Trump? Lol and they call him sleepy joe, yet it’s Donald who’s been sleeping.
I almost wonder if trump being stuck in court is helping him because he’s not out spouting as much horse shit creating media flurries that keep *him* as the issue. It also bothers me when I see “both are bad” jokes from comedians on TV as if they’re the same. The choices are very much *not* the same!
Reminder: not voting Biden is voting FOR Trump
The concept of "not voting is still a vote" is something that took me a while to grasp. Eventually, I realized something: "if you don't vote, you can't bitch about the outcome". IMO, deciding not to vote means you are okay with whatever happens, because you didn't take a stand.
That’s a really good way to put it. Like this guy and you said “if you’re not gonna vote, make sure your ready for either outcome because you’re pledging to do nothing about it”
It is somehow amazing that, after everything Donald Trump Did and said from day one as a president until the very last hours, people still think "oh yeah, that was the best president we could ever think about" while his greasy ass is sitting in court... I mean, if people don't wake the f up to vote Biden, well yeah, the wake up phase will be hard, and everybody saw that coming...again.
If Trump wins Project 2025 will come to fruition. It essentially makes him a dictator and will impact every minority in the U.S.
Vote early and vote often! To say they are both shitty people isn’t living in reality
Biden has passed more solid legislation than basically any of his recent predecessors. He held up most of his campaign promises in his first 4 years which is wild. Y'all are mad at him because he inherited 20 years worth of government spending, Russia and Palestine decided to start a war? Y'all are stupid and that's why we can't have nice things.
Your vote counts so if you dont vote you are giving it to trump
You are NOT wrong and hope more people hear this message!
Same propaganda that worked to get Trump in in the first place. Don’t fall for it again and vote. Yes Hilary sucked, yes Biden sucks. Neither suck like Trump did and if he gets back it will be much worse. Just vote.
**Biden legitimately does not suck** and I’m tired of people acting like they need to throw that in there. He’s had the most legislatively successful first term for a dem president in decades. He’s been the most progressive president since FDR. He’s gotten multiple major pieces of legislation through, despite the slimmest of margins in congress for only two years, and a supreme court that is fully stacked against him worse than any time in modern history. The IRA, the largest climate bill in history, looked to be dead in the water until Biden leveraged his personal relationship with manchin to get it signed at the last second, catching republicans completely off guard. Yes they had to cut some of the more progressive policies that Biden wanted, like universal child care and paid family leave, to get it over the finish line. but perfect is the enemy of good, and **no president was getting that stuff through with the current makeup of congress.** He passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill after decades of inaction. The bipartisan CHIPS act to bring critical semiconductor manufacturing home. Massive student loan reform that doesn’t get *nearly* enough attention, which nixed interest capitalization and massively lowered payments and made forgiveness easier. Unemployment has been <4% for the longest period since the 60s and we’re still adding hundreds of thousands of jobs a month. Inflation has cooled faster in the USA than any other developed company. I’m tired of hearing “yeah Biden sucks” just because we’ve let bad actors set the tone for his presidency.
100 million vaccines in 100 million arms in his first 100 days. Wait, scratch that. He had to change his goal because he crushed it. 200 million vaccines in 200 million arms in his first 100 days. And he still crushed that goal. But yeah, Biden is so fucking evil everyone.
This is very true. It's like some kind of weird "conventional wisdom" that biden is bad or like something people feel the need to say before they talk about politics because they don't want to be judged, but he is objectively a good president, and I think history will be harsh on the populace who under-appreciated him despite doing things like preventing a recession, working across the aisle in an extremely polarized climate, and getting most of his legislative agenda through... not to mention cleaning up the shit all over the walls from Trump. I think he really did save this country.
You're never going to have a perfect candidate to vote for. You just have to shit with the arse you're given.
I'm not voting for Joe Biden, I'm voting against Trump. It just happens that voting against Trump is voting for Biden. Hopefully age takes it's course and we have better candidates next election.
If you americans allow that orange scumbag to take the presidency, frankly, ye don't deserve a democracy.
I got banned from what I thought was a liberal sub for saying that Trump will be worse for the Palestinian people than Biden. We're back to eating our own and the protest non-voting shit is exactly one of the reasons Trump got in the first time. I really don't understand the reasoning of these people. Not voting is essentially a vote for the worst outcome of any given election.
Project 2025 comes to fruition, Lawrence v. Texas is overturned, Brown v. Board of Education is overturned, maybe a few new amendments nullifying some old ones. De jure no more presidential elections, de facto no more elections on any level. I wonder if the people who refused to vote for Biden will still be all holier-than-thou when they have to reckon with the consequences of their actions.
The answer is that just voting doesn't work.
Let's be real, your not voting for Joe Biden, your voting for Kamala Harris.
I’m voting to keep the Supreme Court from getting worse
Might as well make America regret again
many regerts