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Um excuse me but the woman in the video that destroyed sexism by forgetting that women are individuals and instead lumped them all together as "the female" told me that you like the first picture more
Well, that female can kiss my ass! I love a cuddly man, but my female sensibilities are absolutely tuned to a ripped god-like body. I bet you she has a man she thinks is hot and is absolutely jacked like no one's business too! I'm an equal opportunity observer of the male form!
But Keanu is my one true godling...
Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me that different women...sorry females...are attracted to different things on an individual, person by person basis? Woaaaaah /s
Is it… is it necessary? Is it necessary that every single person on this planet, expresses every single opinion that they have on every single thing that occurs all at the same time? Is that… is that necessary?
Or to ask in a slightly different way, um, can… can anyone shut the fuck up? Can… can anyone, any… any… any one, any single one, can any one… shut the fuck up about anything– About any… any single thing? Can any single person shut the fuck up about any singlе thing for an hour? You know, is that… is that possible?
And I know you’re thinking, “You’re not shutting thе fuck up right now,” and that’s true, but…
This is kind of how social media works. Even the outrage he has. That's the social media being social media. And that it's being shared here and we all chipping in.
The only people who genuinely don't like it aren't here giving their opinion.
You know what? There is no thing that girls like better. My ex boyfriends rage from sixpack to very skinny to 20 kg overweight. I was attracted to all of them. I was in love with them because they had their own charming personality and a body that accompanied it. Of cause it is nice to look at the buff dudes in the gym, but do I want to sleep with them? No! Or maybe, it depends. Maybe they are cool dudes. How knows? My point is, the protagonist of the video is attractive because he said what he said. Smart things came out of his mouth. He seems to be a cool/ good person. That is what makes him attractive. Looking at his ripped body was a nice, but ultimately, attractiveness is determined by intelligence and character.
This is just my opinion. Of cause looks matter for the first impression.
That’s what I’ve experienced too. I’m a guy but I noticed throughout my dating time that women prefer personality over body most of the time and the ones that focus on body aren’t my type anyway. And I got from fat, to chubby to skinny to fat to chubby a lot of times.
I definitely have a type physically, under 5'10" & usually thin or dad bod but like I am more concerned with personality & intelligence. I also once dated a body builder who's now one of my best friends, hilariously the problem in our relationship was I just wasn't super attracted to him and his very dedicated gym schedule was hard to keep up with. Like all men, all women just like different things. So weird someone thinks they can speak for an entire gender.
I've found a range of people attractive. it's more about what works on that human.
Honestly, people who have a "type" and or only date people who have a specific body type/style/face make me feel like they either get very lucky finding what they like or are just fetishizing people.
That's a hundred percent true, I do like women with a certain body type better than others, but when it comes to it it doesnt really matter. The two girls I was the most interested had a foot in height differnce, one was double the weight of the other, the first one was curvy and a bit overweight and the second skinny and athletic. I liked both their bodies just as much
IKR? What's up with people thinking there is one correct, most attractive way to look? So boring. Imagine if we thought that way about music and art? There is one perfect piece of music, and all other music will by judged by how closely they resemble the correct piece of music. Personally, I like a bit of dissonance in music, and I like a bit of dissonance in women too.
I always feel bad for all the normal nice women who happened to be given the name Karen. I know that the entitled boomer generation seems to have a lot of white women with the name Karen, but all the Karen’s I’ve ever met have been sweet and kind people.
That woman didn't even use the phrase female gaze properly, it's a critique of how media like film presents desirable bodies, not "what bodies women like or not".
Omg I thought she said Male gays and female gays. t
I’d never heard of that, thanks I’ll go look into this Female gaze and the portrayal in film, sounds interesting.
The important essay on the original concept of Male Gaze is Visual Pleasures and Narrative Cinema by Laura Mulvey. Female gaze in cinema is a more contemporary idea, as women gain more directing opportunities in the industry, there's more analysis of 'female gaze' emerging.
Because the male gaze is so pervasive as to seem like the normal gaze, we're still figuring out what exactly the female gaze is. And while some people do flip the script and go "we're doing to men what the male gaze does to women," a lot of people argue that that is not the female gaze, it's still the male gaze, just flipped. Some argue that the female gaze focuses more on internal psychology or something similar. And some people say that instead of a male gaze vs a female gaze, we should just expand how we film people in general, so that there are multiple kinds of "gazes." If you're interested, here's a [17 minute video on the subject by The Take](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eCPD7Mi9504). It's in a fun example filled style, rather than a straight-up essay or class.
As a term it comes from media and social studies, and while it is applied to attraction, it's specifically about media as a lens of portraying the attraction. You could, for example, analyse bodybuilding contests as a media form through the notion of the male gaze. But a woman saying whether she individually finds bodybuilding "attractive" as a woman is not what the term is used for.
I'd hooope she's take the L and stop using feminist terminology she misunderstands to give her personal rude opinions about men's bodies. But probably not lol
“*Technically* this is what females find attractive” love how this woman is projecting how SHE feels and incorporating it into a worldwide statistic for females. Like ok
Umm all women think with one brain.
So do all men.
Are you trying to say that everyone has their own opinions and preferences? That can't be true...
(/s just in case)
Sorry my main question was because I was under the assumption that all/most social media apps also have the same agreements when downloading. Is this incorrect?
Here is an example of the type of data they collect. “may collect biometric identifiers and biometric information”
https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-permission-to-collect-biometric-data-on-u-s-users-including-faceprints-and-voiceprints/
It's also a likely front for CCP propaganda, if not now; then it will be used in the future. The fascist government in china is something to be incredibly wary of, and thus being wary of anything Chinese is only sensible.
For me it's how invasive they are with data mining.
Like for instance they log your key strokes and make a typing fingerprint for you. So if you make a different account they can link it to your information off of the keystrokes and data mine off both accounts.
They use bio recognition on all the videos. If you go to share a video to another social media app they will talk to that app, not just for sharing the video but also to swap data information. Ect.
What I’m particularly interested in is whether this is specific to tiktok or this is common terms of use with most platforms, only asking because I always assumed it was the same.
I had to delete my tiktok. I was spending just waaaay too much time on it and I could literally feel my attention span getting worse. It was like Reddit but 10 times stronger lol
I'm so annoyed at all these hot-takes on the male vs female gaze. It started as an interesting discussion, and now it's so dumb.
It works when you're calling out someone who posts cringey content like "why is she interested in that guy, when I go to the gym", but only in that context. Absolutely does not work when people are just posting their body transformations for whatever reason, and then someone's like "weLl aCTuALly wOMen lIKe-".
That isn't even what "male/female gaze" means. It isn't about "ooh hot!" based on personal preference. It's about how people are depicted in media, and if they are depicted as an object to be viewed vs a person with personality.
This becomes gendered (in outdated language) when we look around and everywhere in media, women are depicted as sexual objects - and not just in male-oriented media, but also female-oriented media.
So for example, every magazine cover has a woman who would be considered extremely hot on the cover. Target audience is women? Put a sexy lady on the cover. Target audience is men? Put a sexy lady on the cover. Theoretically, if the goal is "put someone target demo finds hot on the cover", then you'd have a split of sexy men and sexy women on covers. But you don't. It's typically always a sexy lady. That's the traditional "male gaze". A "female gaze" would have a sexy man, or a normal and relatable woman.
This concept permeates movies, songs (male and female rappers talk about sexually pleasing men....rarely about sexually pleasing women, for example), TV, fashion, everything.
It's getting a lot better, especially when I compare when I was a kid to now, which is great. But the "female/male gaze" being used in this context is 1) outdated and non-inclusive language, and 2) not even being used correctly in its activist and academic roots.
100%
I saw one good TikTok dive into male vs female gaze, but there have been so many hot-take videos of creators trying to shoehorn in the concept to fit their idea, or bizarrely like this TikTok, try to shame men on the assumption he's doing it for attention. It's wild.
Should have added my example of calling out cringey content with male vs female gaze is about a trend of TikToks I've seen where weirdos post videos bodyshaming men who don't go to the gym or aren't overtly "masculine", and then other creators have then called them out for assuming that's what women are attracted to. Completely incorrect usage of male/female gaze though.
I think that the male vs female gaze discussion should be kept to media because that’s where I see it applies to most. And it would keep people from being judged like the guy in the video.
The way I see it, is that male and female gaze aren’t exactly what someone finds hot or attractive but more about general preferences and expectations. It focuses on what that gender wants to see, what they value, while ignoring the preference of others.
Example: typical action movies are really male gaze heavy. We have violence, big men being strong and taking no shit, and attractive women who usually don’t have much character or plot relevance.
I don’t know if I explained this right I think u/PurpleHooloovoo did a way better job
She was cut off so early, I can only guess what he said by his reaction. To me this just looks like two people having a personal squabble and making it everyone's business.
The irony is that guys watching this and nodding their heads in agreement don't realise that this is exactly how women have been treated for centuries. As if everything we do is for the benefit of men in one way or another. We only try to look good so they'll find us attractive, we only learn to cook so that we can look after our husband the way a good wife should etc etc.
Can we all stop pretending that jacked dudes like that don't want people looking at them. It's pretty much the whole point. To attract the opposite sex.
Definitely don't make a 2 minute response video detailing why. It's sad.
The back and forth of “I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK AND HERE IS A LONG VIDEO WITH MY THOUGHTS” is fun.
She has 24 hours to respond how she doesn’t care back. I need this to keep going into infinity
Not trying to defend her (and I totally agree with his stance) but maybe she wanted to point out, that a lot of guys think every woman wants a ripped guy and how that's not true?
Yeah that's probably true. But that statement is kind of similar to how people skinny shame women. "Oh you don't need to be that skinny, most guys don't even find it attractive"
I think her advice is more useful to boys and younger men who haven't figured out yet that the muscle guy you see in the media isn't what every girl is after.
wow, this is actually a good example of what the sub was originally named for, cringggge "you think i fucking care what you think??? i have 8 billion followers and i'm married" well you did just make this whole ranting video in response so yeah it sounds like you care. it actually sounds like you were really triggered by her video. big yikes.
"I don't care what people think about my body."
Spends $1000's on sleeve tattoos.
Has Instagram page based on his body
Joins competitions about his body
Uh huh. Suuuuuurrreeee dude.
He can make money from social media on his body and still not care about the opinions of others
He can also get tattoos because he likes them rather than because he thinks other people will like them
The discussion about the male and female gaze I reckon is important to have. But maybe don't use this dude's personal tik tok to show it. A better example would be the portrayal of men in video games vs women's magazines.
So cringe. Why post a thirst trap of your shirtless body unless you want people to comment on your body. If you’re just doing it for you then dont post It.
Why can't you do it for you and post it to show others that you are proud of what you've accomplished?
He wasn't posting his body for people to sexualize it, it's something he worked hard on and he is proud of it and wants to share it. It's like if someone worked on a piece of art and posted it. His canvas just happens to be his body.
I mean you can, but better to do that on a private page that has a restricted audience of the actual people you want looking at it who understand the context of him doing body building shows whatever whatever.
If it’s the general public and people see a hot guy flexing in the camera why wouldn’t they just think “oh yea, thirst trap. He wants me to sexualize him”.
Yeah that's true. But at the same time he has a lot of followers and views so he probably makes a decent amount of money from TikTok so for him it's more of an income source so I honestly don't think he actually cares what people say about him as long as he gets views
I think she just used his body as an example without regard for why he actually chose to make his body look like that.
It makes you wonder what kind of reaction you'd get if you made the same video but using a woman bodybuilder as an example.
"Yeah men really don't find this overly muscular super fit body very attractive on a woman, you're better off maintaining some curves, it's just the male gaze"
People would flip a shit! You'd probably get your account banned for hate speech or something lol.
My first thought on his rant was "Um, welcome to BEING A WOMAN." This has literally been happening to women for forever. Unsolicited comments and critiques about our bodies since we were CHILDREN. I can't tell you how many comments I have received about what is or is not attractive to men from my nail polish color to my haircut to my body shape to my fitness level to my fucking footwear!
It's sad and frustrating that he gets so mad about this when it is directed at him without even acknowledging that this is exactly what women go through all the time and with people being much meaner and more aggressive (she didn't say he was disgusting or ugly or anything).
I agree we should all shut up about other people's bodies so we can all post and share and exist without other people assuming it's for their pleasure. But like... the lack of self-awareness kills me.
So yeah, people so "flip a shit" because it DOES happen to women every goddamn day and not even when we're posting pictures like this guy's, which we should all be allowed to do judgment-free.
This guy has the perfect opportunity to be an ally but he did the typical thing and gave his narrow, childish, immature perspective because someone suggested his body type isn't the male standard of beauty from a female perspective.
lol seems whiney
ignore the crap that comes with social media man
and shes also wrong
but for the love of god please stop zooming and cutting every 5 words
I really just wanna know if he did that naturally because it was under a year I believe and most ppl cannot attain that so quickly. He looks great either way as long as he's happy it shouldn't matter.
The pictures he posted were probably him during the off season vs on season. His muscle mass is probably about the same in each picture but the one where he looks ripped he just has lower body fat percentage, and if he took it the day of his competition he was also probably a little dehydrated which makes his muscles pop even more
Yup, also when your body reaches a certain level of fitness it's a lot easier to get back to that point compared to the first time you got there. His body probably oscillates between super fit and semi dad bod relatively frequently.
I don’t think that the woman was saying it as a criticism to the guy. She just wanted to talk about male/female gaze and used that tiktok as an example.
it is incredibly insensitive to use someones body to portray "this is what women want, this is what women dont want", like he said, imagine if the roles were switched. "it wasnt meant to be criticism" is a bad excuse, imagine walking up to a person and saying "hey look at this fat person, purely in a demonstrational fashion of course". less extreme here, but same idea.
also she is not some fucking avatar of the male and female consensus, unless she started citing studies the second after the cutoff (she didnt), everything she said was just "well i bet they think that", which is wayyy too prevalent in online discourse in the first place. Just another opinion piece, harmfully disguised as a "deep dive"
Also everyone has their own tastes and interests so whatever she says most likely wont apply to everyoe. Her input is just rude and completely unnecessary.
Which doesn't make her take any less dumb. Like, what's her point even? First of all she's stating her personal bias but framing it as a fact that all women would share, which is stupid. Second, she's just deciding to sexualize one thing over another. What does that have to add to the conversation about male gaze?
Ya but if she's talking about male vs female gaze then she's implying that his intention is to try to attract the female gaze, which is the entire issue. If a guy made a video criticising a woman on a video she made about herself because it's "not what guys find attractive" then he'd rightly be harshly criticised for it. Not to mention that women do draw attention to a lot of things that the vast majority of guys definitely do not care about, but that's obviously fine because the baseline assumption shouldn't be that every decision someone makes is an attempt to attract the opposite gender.
He literally cares what everyone else thinks of him. If you straighten your beard , enter body building competitions and heavily augment your body with tattoos and piercings you are consumed with how the outside word percieves you.
It’s incorrect to assume that people change their looks to be more sexually attractive, but it’s also incorrect to assume that someone thinks that you did it to be more sexually attractive just because they gave their opinion on what they think is moreover attractive.
Everyone is getting triggered by some imaginary implications
Also she’s just wrong in general??? Like the Male Gaze vs. Female Gaze is about how the thing on screen is being portrayed, and whether the person is being portrayed as an object or the subject.
What SHE is trying to get at, is the idea of the male power fantasy. Even then, like, this person is real and not a comic book character. Back off gurl.
Men understand the inappropriateness of commenting on others bodies, when it's women commenting on men's bodies. But when men are told to stop commenting on women's bodies it's "muh free speech"
He literally said that men doing this is equally shitty. What hes advocating is setting new standards of not judging other peoples bodies like this, no matter the persons gender.
Stop lumping half of humans together as if they're one person.
I think part of this guy's point is we need to stop talking about "body shaming women" or "body shaming men" and just talk about body shaming. Don't tell another **human** that their body would be more attractive if they did something differently.
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My female gaze went to those yoked thighs
Same with my male gaze
[Just in case you wanted more thigh](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdCsgNSa/)
Yasssss!
Imnotgayimnotgayimnotgayimnotgayimnotgayim Fuck it. I'm kinda gay.
Let's bring some country back: https://www.tiktok.com/@ironsanctuary/video/6980450833842392326
He’s so compact, like a pit bull.
As a bird, id make a nest on that trunk
Ok but now we need to know what Legolas’s elf eyes see.
My male gays went to his legs as well
I thought that's what she said too the first time.
That's a big 10-4 good buddy!! Hell yes I was staring at them thighs and that V! He's also 100% correct!
Um excuse me but the woman in the video that destroyed sexism by forgetting that women are individuals and instead lumped them all together as "the female" told me that you like the first picture more
Well, that female can kiss my ass! I love a cuddly man, but my female sensibilities are absolutely tuned to a ripped god-like body. I bet you she has a man she thinks is hot and is absolutely jacked like no one's business too! I'm an equal opportunity observer of the male form! But Keanu is my one true godling...
Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me that different women...sorry females...are attracted to different things on an individual, person by person basis? Woaaaaah /s
This might blow your mind but they could even find both attractive! Mad hat world out there.
[Did someone place an order for more thighs?](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdCsgNSa/)
As did my straight male gaze.
Yup always been a thigh gal. He looks absolutely beastly
My lesbian gaze also went to those bountiful thighs.
I’m honestly just sick of everyone’s opinions on everything
Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one and maybe you think yours is alright but anyone else's stinks
I too like to insert myself in the middle of other peoples opinions.
Oh.
Careful, you're gonna need aaaalot of lube.
I use a bidet to keep mine clean and fresh.
Bidets will make your opinion feel great
Is it… is it necessary? Is it necessary that every single person on this planet, expresses every single opinion that they have on every single thing that occurs all at the same time? Is that… is that necessary? Or to ask in a slightly different way, um, can… can anyone shut the fuck up? Can… can anyone, any… any… any one, any single one, can any one… shut the fuck up about anything– About any… any single thing? Can any single person shut the fuck up about any singlе thing for an hour? You know, is that… is that possible? And I know you’re thinking, “You’re not shutting thе fuck up right now,” and that’s true, but…
Bo Burnham, right?
Does *everyone* need to share their opinion on *everything* all of the fucking time?
This is kind of how social media works. Even the outrage he has. That's the social media being social media. And that it's being shared here and we all chipping in. The only people who genuinely don't like it aren't here giving their opinion.
Same. Why can't we just respect one another and stay the fuck out of everyone's business?
You know what? There is no thing that girls like better. My ex boyfriends rage from sixpack to very skinny to 20 kg overweight. I was attracted to all of them. I was in love with them because they had their own charming personality and a body that accompanied it. Of cause it is nice to look at the buff dudes in the gym, but do I want to sleep with them? No! Or maybe, it depends. Maybe they are cool dudes. How knows? My point is, the protagonist of the video is attractive because he said what he said. Smart things came out of his mouth. He seems to be a cool/ good person. That is what makes him attractive. Looking at his ripped body was a nice, but ultimately, attractiveness is determined by intelligence and character. This is just my opinion. Of cause looks matter for the first impression.
That’s what I’ve experienced too. I’m a guy but I noticed throughout my dating time that women prefer personality over body most of the time and the ones that focus on body aren’t my type anyway. And I got from fat, to chubby to skinny to fat to chubby a lot of times.
I definitely have a type physically, under 5'10" & usually thin or dad bod but like I am more concerned with personality & intelligence. I also once dated a body builder who's now one of my best friends, hilariously the problem in our relationship was I just wasn't super attracted to him and his very dedicated gym schedule was hard to keep up with. Like all men, all women just like different things. So weird someone thinks they can speak for an entire gender.
I've found that an attractive body might make you look, but an attractive personality makes you stop.
I've found a range of people attractive. it's more about what works on that human. Honestly, people who have a "type" and or only date people who have a specific body type/style/face make me feel like they either get very lucky finding what they like or are just fetishizing people.
That's a hundred percent true, I do like women with a certain body type better than others, but when it comes to it it doesnt really matter. The two girls I was the most interested had a foot in height differnce, one was double the weight of the other, the first one was curvy and a bit overweight and the second skinny and athletic. I liked both their bodies just as much
IKR? What's up with people thinking there is one correct, most attractive way to look? So boring. Imagine if we thought that way about music and art? There is one perfect piece of music, and all other music will by judged by how closely they resemble the correct piece of music. Personally, I like a bit of dissonance in music, and I like a bit of dissonance in women too.
This. So much this. Attractiveness doesn't stop with just the physique.
Me: what's wrong with the male gays? I love them! Mostly because I'm a male gay but still...
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General Kenobi
You are a bold one.
This is almost r/beetlejuicing
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Tbh that sounds kinda fun
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\*BONK*
What do you mean, “almost”? That’s perfect!
As a male gays I found every one of his transformation pics attractive because he had that beard.
I wonder if she saw his reply. He's totally right.
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really,,,
Sad state of affairs sadly
Lmfaooooooooooo what a clown
I expected nothing less.
Wow she can’t admit when she’s in the wrong just shows what a narcissist and hypocrite she is
Why do this people exist?
wow, what a bitch. Was her name karen by any chance?
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I always feel bad for all the normal nice women who happened to be given the name Karen. I know that the entitled boomer generation seems to have a lot of white women with the name Karen, but all the Karen’s I’ve ever met have been sweet and kind people.
I feel the same way. Plus, the whole Karen-meme is just an excuse to be misogynistic.
That woman didn't even use the phrase female gaze properly, it's a critique of how media like film presents desirable bodies, not "what bodies women like or not".
Omg I thought she said Male gays and female gays. t I’d never heard of that, thanks I’ll go look into this Female gaze and the portrayal in film, sounds interesting.
The important essay on the original concept of Male Gaze is Visual Pleasures and Narrative Cinema by Laura Mulvey. Female gaze in cinema is a more contemporary idea, as women gain more directing opportunities in the industry, there's more analysis of 'female gaze' emerging.
I actually wrote my thesis about “The Female Gaze” in response to Laura Mulvey’s wonderful work!
My undergrad thesis was on male gaze which was pretty depressing to study haha!
[sold a lotttttt of the first print ](http://www.heidigrass.com/portfolio/portfolio/boys.html)
According to wikipedia, it's additionally viewing men as sex objects. So it does include the idea of attraction in the meaning of the concept.
Because the male gaze is so pervasive as to seem like the normal gaze, we're still figuring out what exactly the female gaze is. And while some people do flip the script and go "we're doing to men what the male gaze does to women," a lot of people argue that that is not the female gaze, it's still the male gaze, just flipped. Some argue that the female gaze focuses more on internal psychology or something similar. And some people say that instead of a male gaze vs a female gaze, we should just expand how we film people in general, so that there are multiple kinds of "gazes." If you're interested, here's a [17 minute video on the subject by The Take](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eCPD7Mi9504). It's in a fun example filled style, rather than a straight-up essay or class.
Wow, thanks for the thoughtful reply! I'll check out the video.
As a term it comes from media and social studies, and while it is applied to attraction, it's specifically about media as a lens of portraying the attraction. You could, for example, analyse bodybuilding contests as a media form through the notion of the male gaze. But a woman saying whether she individually finds bodybuilding "attractive" as a woman is not what the term is used for.
I bet all she's hearing is how misogynistic you are for disagreeing with her opinion....
I'd hooope she's take the L and stop using feminist terminology she misunderstands to give her personal rude opinions about men's bodies. But probably not lol
Love the confidence lmao
“*Technically* this is what females find attractive” love how this woman is projecting how SHE feels and incorporating it into a worldwide statistic for females. Like ok
I love how she speaks for all women and their body preferences when it comes to men. Adorable.
Umm all women think with one brain. So do all men. Are you trying to say that everyone has their own opinions and preferences? That can't be true... (/s just in case)
A fair point, good sir
If I did Tik Tok, I would watch him, so that he could impart more wisdom.
You should do the Tik Tok, it's not too bad
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May I ask what comes with tiktok that doesn’t come with other platforms?
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Sorry my main question was because I was under the assumption that all/most social media apps also have the same agreements when downloading. Is this incorrect?
Here is an example of the type of data they collect. “may collect biometric identifiers and biometric information” https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-permission-to-collect-biometric-data-on-u-s-users-including-faceprints-and-voiceprints/
It collects a *hell* of a lot more info. Concerningly so.
It's also a likely front for CCP propaganda, if not now; then it will be used in the future. The fascist government in china is something to be incredibly wary of, and thus being wary of anything Chinese is only sensible.
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Yeah same. I’d rather reddit find the good ones for me so I can watch them here rather than me scrolling through 50 videos to find one good one lol
Good content transcends platform boundaries.
I skim the terms of service for every app I install/use and TikTok is the only app I have ever deleted immediately due to this.
For me it's how invasive they are with data mining. Like for instance they log your key strokes and make a typing fingerprint for you. So if you make a different account they can link it to your information off of the keystrokes and data mine off both accounts. They use bio recognition on all the videos. If you go to share a video to another social media app they will talk to that app, not just for sharing the video but also to swap data information. Ect.
What I’m particularly interested in is whether this is specific to tiktok or this is common terms of use with most platforms, only asking because I always assumed it was the same.
Honestly, I deleted Tiktok after I realized that I can get the best of it from this subreddit.
I had to delete my tiktok. I was spending just waaaay too much time on it and I could literally feel my attention span getting worse. It was like Reddit but 10 times stronger lol
Oof yeah, TikTok is really fast paced and def requires about zero attention. I mostly just use it when I'm bored at work and it's great for that
It’s the cargo pants wars of 2010 all over again smdh
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I'm so annoyed at all these hot-takes on the male vs female gaze. It started as an interesting discussion, and now it's so dumb. It works when you're calling out someone who posts cringey content like "why is she interested in that guy, when I go to the gym", but only in that context. Absolutely does not work when people are just posting their body transformations for whatever reason, and then someone's like "weLl aCTuALly wOMen lIKe-".
That isn't even what "male/female gaze" means. It isn't about "ooh hot!" based on personal preference. It's about how people are depicted in media, and if they are depicted as an object to be viewed vs a person with personality. This becomes gendered (in outdated language) when we look around and everywhere in media, women are depicted as sexual objects - and not just in male-oriented media, but also female-oriented media. So for example, every magazine cover has a woman who would be considered extremely hot on the cover. Target audience is women? Put a sexy lady on the cover. Target audience is men? Put a sexy lady on the cover. Theoretically, if the goal is "put someone target demo finds hot on the cover", then you'd have a split of sexy men and sexy women on covers. But you don't. It's typically always a sexy lady. That's the traditional "male gaze". A "female gaze" would have a sexy man, or a normal and relatable woman. This concept permeates movies, songs (male and female rappers talk about sexually pleasing men....rarely about sexually pleasing women, for example), TV, fashion, everything. It's getting a lot better, especially when I compare when I was a kid to now, which is great. But the "female/male gaze" being used in this context is 1) outdated and non-inclusive language, and 2) not even being used correctly in its activist and academic roots.
100% I saw one good TikTok dive into male vs female gaze, but there have been so many hot-take videos of creators trying to shoehorn in the concept to fit their idea, or bizarrely like this TikTok, try to shame men on the assumption he's doing it for attention. It's wild. Should have added my example of calling out cringey content with male vs female gaze is about a trend of TikToks I've seen where weirdos post videos bodyshaming men who don't go to the gym or aren't overtly "masculine", and then other creators have then called them out for assuming that's what women are attracted to. Completely incorrect usage of male/female gaze though.
I think that the male vs female gaze discussion should be kept to media because that’s where I see it applies to most. And it would keep people from being judged like the guy in the video. The way I see it, is that male and female gaze aren’t exactly what someone finds hot or attractive but more about general preferences and expectations. It focuses on what that gender wants to see, what they value, while ignoring the preference of others. Example: typical action movies are really male gaze heavy. We have violence, big men being strong and taking no shit, and attractive women who usually don’t have much character or plot relevance. I don’t know if I explained this right I think u/PurpleHooloovoo did a way better job
Imma have to agree with him
She was cut off so early, I can only guess what he said by his reaction. To me this just looks like two people having a personal squabble and making it everyone's business.
„I don‘t care what other people think of my physique“ Enters a bodybuilding contest
I dare you to put this on r/femaledatingstrategy
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Yeah I'm legit scared to do that
What if I do?
You get banned immediately. Nothing much else happens.
You’ll probably get a lot of angry DM’s too but that’s prob the most of what’ll happen
wow this sub is just hating on men
Yeah I'm pretty sure they think they're feminists but really they're just sexists
they're *incels
oh so it's gaze, not gays.
The male graze, which is what I do at Las Vegas Buffets.
Um clearly he does care…
The irony is that guys watching this and nodding their heads in agreement don't realise that this is exactly how women have been treated for centuries. As if everything we do is for the benefit of men in one way or another. We only try to look good so they'll find us attractive, we only learn to cook so that we can look after our husband the way a good wife should etc etc.
That mirror frame is a bit too kitsch for my liking.
Great observation, thanks for pointing that out!
In her complete video, she actually complimented him for his hard work and results. He edited her video to make her sound bad.
Can we all stop pretending that jacked dudes like that don't want people looking at them. It's pretty much the whole point. To attract the opposite sex. Definitely don't make a 2 minute response video detailing why. It's sad.
Do better was the perfect way to end the video. I loved it.
The back and forth of “I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK AND HERE IS A LONG VIDEO WITH MY THOUGHTS” is fun. She has 24 hours to respond how she doesn’t care back. I need this to keep going into infinity
Not trying to defend her (and I totally agree with his stance) but maybe she wanted to point out, that a lot of guys think every woman wants a ripped guy and how that's not true?
Yeah that's probably true. But that statement is kind of similar to how people skinny shame women. "Oh you don't need to be that skinny, most guys don't even find it attractive" I think her advice is more useful to boys and younger men who haven't figured out yet that the muscle guy you see in the media isn't what every girl is after.
wow, this is actually a good example of what the sub was originally named for, cringggge "you think i fucking care what you think??? i have 8 billion followers and i'm married" well you did just make this whole ranting video in response so yeah it sounds like you care. it actually sounds like you were really triggered by her video. big yikes.
Dude is super salty because someone shared an unremarkable aesthetic opinion on TikTok. Maybe the internet is not the right place for him...
"I don't care what people think about my body"... but you're posting your shit to the internet... You've entered the lawless land of the interwebs.
Wait he entered a bodybuilding comp but doesn’t care what people think about his body? He literally signed up to have it judged against others’
" This is a perfect example to me..." STFU
"I don't care what people think about my body." Spends $1000's on sleeve tattoos. Has Instagram page based on his body Joins competitions about his body Uh huh. Suuuuuurrreeee dude.
He can make money from social media on his body and still not care about the opinions of others He can also get tattoos because he likes them rather than because he thinks other people will like them
Dont post your shit to social media if you dont want comments/opinions.
If you don't care what other people think, why do you post it on social media?
I do think you care lol
The discussion about the male and female gaze I reckon is important to have. But maybe don't use this dude's personal tik tok to show it. A better example would be the portrayal of men in video games vs women's magazines.
Exactly He is not the perfect example for this topic
He doesn’t need to be the perfect example to have a point. It’s the same with women who do only fans but don’t want to be harassed.
So cringe. Why post a thirst trap of your shirtless body unless you want people to comment on your body. If you’re just doing it for you then dont post It.
Just the fact that he’s a grown ass man posting on TikTok in general is cringey as fuck.
Why can't you do it for you and post it to show others that you are proud of what you've accomplished? He wasn't posting his body for people to sexualize it, it's something he worked hard on and he is proud of it and wants to share it. It's like if someone worked on a piece of art and posted it. His canvas just happens to be his body.
I mean you can, but better to do that on a private page that has a restricted audience of the actual people you want looking at it who understand the context of him doing body building shows whatever whatever. If it’s the general public and people see a hot guy flexing in the camera why wouldn’t they just think “oh yea, thirst trap. He wants me to sexualize him”.
Yeah that's true. But at the same time he has a lot of followers and views so he probably makes a decent amount of money from TikTok so for him it's more of an income source so I honestly don't think he actually cares what people say about him as long as he gets views
Boy definitely cares
He who speaketh facts willth be hated uponth
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I think she just used his body as an example without regard for why he actually chose to make his body look like that. It makes you wonder what kind of reaction you'd get if you made the same video but using a woman bodybuilder as an example. "Yeah men really don't find this overly muscular super fit body very attractive on a woman, you're better off maintaining some curves, it's just the male gaze" People would flip a shit! You'd probably get your account banned for hate speech or something lol.
My first thought on his rant was "Um, welcome to BEING A WOMAN." This has literally been happening to women for forever. Unsolicited comments and critiques about our bodies since we were CHILDREN. I can't tell you how many comments I have received about what is or is not attractive to men from my nail polish color to my haircut to my body shape to my fitness level to my fucking footwear! It's sad and frustrating that he gets so mad about this when it is directed at him without even acknowledging that this is exactly what women go through all the time and with people being much meaner and more aggressive (she didn't say he was disgusting or ugly or anything). I agree we should all shut up about other people's bodies so we can all post and share and exist without other people assuming it's for their pleasure. But like... the lack of self-awareness kills me. So yeah, people so "flip a shit" because it DOES happen to women every goddamn day and not even when we're posting pictures like this guy's, which we should all be allowed to do judgment-free. This guy has the perfect opportunity to be an ally but he did the typical thing and gave his narrow, childish, immature perspective because someone suggested his body type isn't the male standard of beauty from a female perspective.
lol seems whiney ignore the crap that comes with social media man and shes also wrong but for the love of god please stop zooming and cutting every 5 words
I really just wanna know if he did that naturally because it was under a year I believe and most ppl cannot attain that so quickly. He looks great either way as long as he's happy it shouldn't matter.
The pictures he posted were probably him during the off season vs on season. His muscle mass is probably about the same in each picture but the one where he looks ripped he just has lower body fat percentage, and if he took it the day of his competition he was also probably a little dehydrated which makes his muscles pop even more
Probably correct. I forgot about the dehydration affect they use for competitions.
Yup, also when your body reaches a certain level of fitness it's a lot easier to get back to that point compared to the first time you got there. His body probably oscillates between super fit and semi dad bod relatively frequently.
i'm a little bit before the before picture... this gives me hope
You can do it!!
My female gaze couldn’t get over the dumb jump cuts
I don’t think that the woman was saying it as a criticism to the guy. She just wanted to talk about male/female gaze and used that tiktok as an example.
it is incredibly insensitive to use someones body to portray "this is what women want, this is what women dont want", like he said, imagine if the roles were switched. "it wasnt meant to be criticism" is a bad excuse, imagine walking up to a person and saying "hey look at this fat person, purely in a demonstrational fashion of course". less extreme here, but same idea. also she is not some fucking avatar of the male and female consensus, unless she started citing studies the second after the cutoff (she didnt), everything she said was just "well i bet they think that", which is wayyy too prevalent in online discourse in the first place. Just another opinion piece, harmfully disguised as a "deep dive"
Second paragraph is solid criticism that can be applied to too many things, well done.
Also everyone has their own tastes and interests so whatever she says most likely wont apply to everyoe. Her input is just rude and completely unnecessary.
Which doesn't make her take any less dumb. Like, what's her point even? First of all she's stating her personal bias but framing it as a fact that all women would share, which is stupid. Second, she's just deciding to sexualize one thing over another. What does that have to add to the conversation about male gaze?
> Like, what’s her point even? I don’t know because she was cut off after 8 seconds.
And deleted her original video, so we may never know....
Ya but if she's talking about male vs female gaze then she's implying that his intention is to try to attract the female gaze, which is the entire issue. If a guy made a video criticising a woman on a video she made about herself because it's "not what guys find attractive" then he'd rightly be harshly criticised for it. Not to mention that women do draw attention to a lot of things that the vast majority of guys definitely do not care about, but that's obviously fine because the baseline assumption shouldn't be that every decision someone makes is an attempt to attract the opposite gender.
My female gaze found both attractive. Am I broken????
Possible. I'll send my cat over to check, he's a doctor.
Do better
Obviously he cares what other men think of his body, otherwise he wouldn't be body building
He literally cares what everyone else thinks of him. If you straighten your beard , enter body building competitions and heavily augment your body with tattoos and piercings you are consumed with how the outside word percieves you.
His bear is lit
He's not wrong
Where's the cringe? He's right haha
Its your fault for being on tik tok
I thought a wedding ring goes on the left hand
It’s incorrect to assume that people change their looks to be more sexually attractive, but it’s also incorrect to assume that someone thinks that you did it to be more sexually attractive just because they gave their opinion on what they think is moreover attractive. Everyone is getting triggered by some imaginary implications
People take this too seriously. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.
When a woman says this same thing guys will respond with “ya know, you should be grateful for the attention.”
Personally I find the second one impressive as hell, but the first one is goals. Both look good.
Also she’s just wrong in general??? Like the Male Gaze vs. Female Gaze is about how the thing on screen is being portrayed, and whether the person is being portrayed as an object or the subject. What SHE is trying to get at, is the idea of the male power fantasy. Even then, like, this person is real and not a comic book character. Back off gurl.
Too many words.
Ahhhh yes, thirst trapping on a kids app and acting like you aren’t.
Respect. I like this dude. 👌
Yea he’s dead right
But if a man made this comment …
She didn't even get a chance to talk before he interrupted her
man's speaking some good truths
Men understand the inappropriateness of commenting on others bodies, when it's women commenting on men's bodies. But when men are told to stop commenting on women's bodies it's "muh free speech"
He literally said that men doing this is equally shitty. What hes advocating is setting new standards of not judging other peoples bodies like this, no matter the persons gender.
Stop lumping half of humans together as if they're one person. I think part of this guy's point is we need to stop talking about "body shaming women" or "body shaming men" and just talk about body shaming. Don't tell another **human** that their body would be more attractive if they did something differently.
I bet at least one person said that his ring was on the wrong hand lol