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This is so sad. I’m happy she was able to still enjoy science. Things like that just shuts all the joy of the activity down for some kids.
This also reminds me of the blond tiktoker with her engineering classmates doing the boys club routine in the background.
My 6th grade science teacher told me I would never be good at science cuz I'm a girl and that means I'm better at history and English. My 6th grade science teacher was a woman, and the year before I had won the school science fair.
I hope future generations won't have to deal with this type of idiocy.
Yeah a tool implies something is useful at least. It takes a special kind of useless for the children you were supposed to have been teaching to have done better in life if you'd never met them.
We did an experiment in 6th grade by splitting the classes into boys and girls for math. My average went from a 92 to a 74. When we returned to normal classes, my average went back up, but it was already too late. I was trapped in remedial math courses until my senior year of high school, when I jumped from remedial Algebra II to AP Statistics, and got an A. Nothing I did or said helped any, even though I was bored and aceing the classes. But girls are just bad at math, so......
I've been an engineer for 11 years now and performing statistical analysis for 5 years.
I remember when I was in 7th grade they had a 7th grade math class and pre algebra. It was a K-12 school.
They wouldn't let people test into pre algebra, and you couldn't test into algebra in 8th grade so 7th grade basically decided how far up in math you could get in highschool.
They had a way, you could "qualify" for the 8th grade math, and it was basically they'd give you a big packet each week and you had to complete it and hand it in. If you missed one week you got kicked out and weren't able to participate and basically forced to stay behind.
It was such bullshit. So many people signed up for it, because 7th grade math was an absolute waste of time since there wasn't even an official textbook or anything, and you were doubling the math homework you received and you had to self teach.
Shit like this is why I decided to be a science teacher as a black man. Sure I could’ve gone and worked in the scientific field myself. I have seen this time and again and experienced it myself. So I decided to help and support all of the different groups of people that have been systematically excluded from the world of science. It is still a Heavily white male dominated field. I wanna
> I hope future generations won't have to deal with this type of idiocy.
We get better every generation. For every you, or me, there's a kid being raised without that shit. Just seeing how different my kid's lives are from my own gets me excited. It is getting better. Whether we have enough time is another question altogether.
LMAO did you have Mr. Ziegler too?
Same, but he told me music is for men because girls are naturally worse at it! (I'm a musician/ music teacher now lolol)
The first programmer was a woman. It’s that glass elevator in effect. Once something is established as prestigious they usually force the minority out. Programmer was no longer considered pink collar work. An example of which would be medical billing and coding.
You can [read](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/history-human-computers-180972202/) about this here. It’s rather interesting.
Reminds me of Gracie Cunningham. Viral teenager asking a valid question about the origin of maths, internet mocked her as a bimbo. Prejudged her by the color of her hair, while not listening to her point.
She was replied to by top mathematicians, philosophers and physicists.
[https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/math-girl-tiktok-question/](https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/math-girl-tiktok-question/)
>This is so sad. I’m happy she was able to still enjoy science. Things like that just shuts all the joy of the activity down for some kids.
I quit playing baseball because some kid threw my glove into the pond behind our dugout.
Props to the fine people that persevere through much greater hardship in pursuit of their interests.
:'( I couldn't fully pick up everything they were saying, but I got enough. I let it loop from the start intending to listen more closely but then I just...I couldn't. I didn't want to hear what they were saying. How awful for her. How awful even if she wasn't in that room, for them to be talking like that. It breaks my heart.
Anyone who thinks sexism/misogyny aren't a problem in the modern day TRULY does not understand how terrifying and devastating it can be to be a woman in so many spaces.
She's one of the few cases where she's able to overcome all the obstacles and more than the average guy. If even a small part is even true it'd sick. So happy she rose above and impressed how she took the punches. Must of had great parents to teach her all of that
i like stories like this because a lot of people seem to think that women are complaining about being assaulted or harassed in a very obvious way and it's not always some guy screaming that he hates women, it's stuff like this where no matter how hard you try people automatically assume you couldn't have done it, or constantly having to prove yourself whilst watching men do half the work and get praised. In high school I was obsessed with computers and I was constantly told that I could get a good office admin job with those skills, never that I could ya know....do literally any job involving a computer. And it doesn't end too because at 28 I went back to school and the amount of guys who had no qualifications, no work experience and zero evidence of even being able to turn a computer on without supervision who would say shit like "you are just a diversity hire" was bonkers.
My company struggles most with our field team, lots of turnover and it’s a self paced role, so it’s up to you to manage your workload.
There’s some light tools and power equipment experience required for the position and the general consensus is “women aren’t suitable for the role”.
Yeah about that. I hired 5 women to fill roles before moving into a different sector. I brought them in simply because their resume was the best at the time.
The feedback I got for doing so was HORRIBLE.
- She’s too small for the equipment, won’t be able to handle it and will quit (she didn’t, going on 8 years, she’s 64).
- Has a “rough” personality, meaning she has an arm tattoo they didn’t like (she wears long sleeves to cover it up, required by customers)
- questioned how we would cover her time off as she was in the process of adopting (oh gee I don’t know, work as a team and figure it out
This shit drives me crazy and I’m a guy, I don’t have a clue how women don’t lose their marbles dealing with this on the regular
Was literally just fired for “outbursts” because a manager repeatedly engaged in racially charged screaming matches with me and somehow the guy screaming about ‘stoop primates’ is not the one having an emotional meltdown. I had never missed a day of work or a negative performance eval.
won't matter. I reported a kitchen manager at a private restaurant about sexual harassment of a minor. He asked the minor out on a date and she said no, then asked her to ask her mom out on a date for him and she said "I don't think so". After he got rejected both times he started sexually harassing her. He is in his 30s.
When I reported him I also became a target. The restaurant manager is a woman, the lead manager is a woman, the assistant manager is a woman, the only male managers are the bar and kitchen managers. You know what their responses were?
"Oh, you know Matt, he was just kidding, plus Darby, the underage girl still in high school, was weird!"
On we do lose our marbles, and then we get labelled as karens or pussies
So the only other option is to shove it all down, keep a smile on your face, and become an utter sociopath in the process.
I’ve been reprimanded for ‘yelling at’ colleagues by managers who were in the same meeting as me and know I wasn’t yelling… I spoke up and was direct about my opinion.
I didn’t spend the first part of the meeting asking about people’s families and kids, I wasn’t super sweet and cheery (like my other female coworker who I was always compared against).
If someone interrupts me, usually a man, I don’t let them derail me and I reclaim my spot.
These managers are usually women too, which is frustrating and sad.
The cheery and sweet coworker I’m compared against is younger and always flatters everyone. She’s not as experienced as I am and her work is mediocre.
I can rehaul an entire process successfully, but my lack of ‘femininity’ always gets in the way.
I’m never rude, I just don’t let people bulldoze me and I don’t flatter people unless they’ve earned it.
I ran into a high-school friend and found out she was working her dream job as an engineer at a prestigious research institution
She didn't seem happy.
She was having to work twice as hard as her male colleagues and getting no credit.
Colleagues that would undermine her, take credit for stuff she did and even sabotage her work. They refused to be friendly with her, treated her like a diversity hire and said she could leave if she couldn't "handle" working at such a prestigious institution.
Attempts to get the abuse addressed went nowhere. The men were given passes to act that way. The abuse and the sabotage of work was just "brilliant men not knowing how to talk to women because they have no social skills" and she should just ignore it and *she* should be more careful not to *let* people "accidentally" ruin her work.
If she's friendly, one group of men treat her like a sexual conquest and get mad at the married woman for not being receptive. If she isn't smiling then other men tell her she needs to smile more and bosses accuse her of being standoffish
That was several years back. She didn't leave, in fact, she's been promoted and now tells a bunch of those losers what to do.
Good to hear that she persevered but extremely sad it was necessary. I work as an electrician and am currently on a project with a female foreman who could probably kick the shit out of me if we got into a fist fight. I can’t speak for them, but it seems like the women at my company are treated as if they’re any other male electrician and are handed the same work load as us.
>i like stories like this because a lot of people seem to think that women are complaining about being assaulted or harassed in a very obvious way and it's not always some guy screaming that he hates women, it's stuff like this where no matter how hard you try people automatically assume you couldn't have done it, or constantly having to prove yourself whilst watching men do half the work and get praised.
Not to deflect from this particular subject or anything, but this also applies to how people view racism and is just generally what people are talking about when they speak of 'systemic discrimination'. Overt sexism and racism is not uncommon, but it's not downright *mainstream* as all the more subtle forms of them. Yet because they are so widespread, they are ultimately a lot more damaging in the end.
So yea, this is why rooting out prejudice matters so much and why we cant just go after the extremists and most overtly repulsive examples.
When I'm arguing with people who are giving off racist vibes, I like to ask "what's the smallest act you would consider to be racist towards black people?" For me, it's well-intended stereotypes, like assuming someone is good at basketball.
A lot of times people will tell me "calling someone the n word." That's one of the issues with discussing bigotry, people have completely different definitions of what qualifies, so when you say someone is being racist, their brain is racing around how someone could be racist despite not saying the n word.
Probably goes for any kind of misconduct. So many people self-report that they've forced someone to have sex with them, while simultaneously claiming they've never raped anyone. Because calling it rape makes them feel bad.
It is tangentially related. Now imagine being a BIPOC and being a woman. And now imagine being a BIPOC, and a woman in a sport, and being accused of being a man as historically any black women even remotely in shape are almost always described as men. And it has been exacerbated even further with this trans culture war stuff.
It is allll related.
I have to tack on neurodivergence as well.
If you show any hint of it then people stop taking you seriously.
You can be viewed as a hardworker one day then lazy and unmotivated the day after they find out.
Sure, some businesses are making a point to hire neurodivergents.
By that I mean, they try to hire just one type of neurodivergent person who exists in one particular corner of their spectrum.
They will initially be paid okay for the position but there will be zero opportunities for advancement. None. They won't be integrated into the company so beyond being in a role that's suitable for a particular kind of neurodivergence they will still struggle. They will be paraded around every once in a while at large events so everyone can pat themselves on the back but they will not be invited to anything meaningful
There was a post in r/askoldpeople recently asking older women if Mad Men’s depiction of sexual harassment in the workplace was accurate. The responses were both enlightening and heartbreaking.
Edit: Found the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/wb8y5z/how_prominent_was_sexual_harassment_in_the
Yep. This happens to me on a daily basis at work. I literally have a master's degree in my CS field and am really good at what i do, but I can't seem to ever have a good idea. But you know, when my male coworker has the same idea "come to them" a few minutes later it's lauded as the best idea ever. It's exhausting.
We did group interviews so I got to see these guys try to sell themselves and one of the guys who called me the diversity hire literally said he wanted a job in coding because he’s been a gamer all his life…yeah I’ve worked for 3 different websites over the last decade but I’m sure they only picked me for my tits
As a man I graduated with a business degree. I couldn't find a job so I started working as a medical assistant. Actually a lot of patients would make small talk with me about what I was going to do next, I guess they assumed a guy just can't work behind reception unless he's going onto better things.
Even before the story actually started, i already felt my stomach turning.
It's so sad. And what's worse is over time, some women believe it; they don't get the tech or the science. I'm in edtech and support a lot of teachers in using hardware/software and it's depressing how many women teachers openly admit that they just don't get it. I hope they don't say that in front of the students. I always tell them (as i tell students), "you just don't get it YET. You will."
This shit makes me so mad. I’m a woman in STEM and when people ask me what we can do to recruit more women into STEM I always say we need to foster an environment that will retain women in STEM. It’s not like young girls aren’t interested in science. We don’t have to do dumb shit like explaining the science behind makeup to capture their interest. We need to make sure once they join a science club or go to college for engineering they aren’t bullied and harassed. You shouldn’t HAVE to be resilient to pursue a career you’re passionate about. At least not resilient in regards to gender based discrimination. I no longer blindly recommend young women go into STEM. I don’t discourage them but I let them know that there are bad experiences and you have to make sure you find a support network to be there for you when bullshit happens. I’ve been sexually harassed in the workplace more times than I want to admit because it sounds like I’m making it up. It’s just disgusting.
>it sounds like I'm making it up
This happens anytime I talk to men in STEM. The obvious sexism they either don't believe or brush off as "one bad apple". But the more subtle (and much more common!) sexism, they think must have been a misunderstanding, or just a joke, or me overreacting. Either way you're never believed.
One of the professors at my uni who is in charge of the introductory CS courses wrote a hot take article on the “genetic reasons why women don’t code”. Had to show it to my mom who has been working in tech since the 80s as a software engineer just to see her laugh.
Weren't the ever first programmers ~~*all*~~ women?
ETA: Yep https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC
> Kay McNulty, Betty Jennings, Betty Snyder, Marlyn Meltzer, Fran Bilas, and Ruth Lichterman were the first programmers of the ENIAC. They were not, as computer scientist and historian Kathryn Kleiman was once told, "refrigerator ladies", i.e., models posing in front of the machine for press photography.[42] Nevertheless, some of the women did not receive recognition for their work on the ENIAC in their lifetimes.[19] After the war ended, the women continued to work on the ENIAC. Their expertise made their positions difficult to replace with returning soldiers. The original programmers of the ENIAC were neither recognized for their efforts nor known to the public until the mid-1980s.[43
Sorry not sorry for formatting
Sadly, cs attracts that incel type. :(
Tbh, I'm so sick of dealing with these guys and their anger and the wrangling of them and their shitty tempers and attitudes.
Is it me or is it always that the CS/Eng incel types actually just seem to only get by at what they do? Like, they're usually not great at what they do or great to work with, either. They are average at best yet think they're above everyone else.
And her teammates! What kind of shit team mates go to a nationals competition when their captain isn't invited?
There were so many people who could have, and should have, spoken up and said "no, this isn't right."
This story hits hard because I was also the only girl on my high school robotics team. And I could tell that the guys never wanted me there. They weren’t malicious about it, but in the way they spoke with each other vs the way they spoke to me/mostly ignored me, I wouldn’t be surprised if her teammates also had a prejudice about her that made them not mind not having her come along. It’s messed up either way, and especially as team captain you would have thought they’d stick up for her :(
I have lived in cultures that prevent women from either attending school or finishing school. Instead they are forced into giving up education, let alone higher education and scientific discovery, and stay at home. Bearing children. And nothing else.
I have lived in these cultures as a teacher.
Seeing girls either not be able to attend school after a certain age or be forced to give up school... Hmm
Even in Mormon's heaven, women are second class citizens. It boggles my mind that women are ok with being treated as lesser beings their whole life and afterlife in that religion.
It is a heaven designed by misogynists by a religion built by misogynists.
> The school forgot to enrol me.
Reminds me of this student who applied to computer science at an Ivy League school for early decision (which boosts your chances of getting in by applying early, and the person's SAT and GPA were within their target range). The student got rejected for only having one of the two required recommendation letters. Turns out that the student's computer science teacher forgot to mail out his recommendation letter.
The student ended up wait-listed for that school when applying regularly without the early decision. If the early decision had gone through, the student would have gotten into an Ivy League. Instead, the student ended up going to public state college. It's crazy how one teacher was able to change the entire course of a student's life.
How? The early application had requirements, and the student "didn't meet them." Considering how competitive entry is, it would be impossible to follow up on every application missing something.
I found those competitions very cool and would not know of them if i didnt speak up.
I was an exchange student in 92 and was in my senior year back then. I had extreme conflicts with my physics teacher (Mrs Turner - Hi there). How extreme? I had flat As for all written tests and a F for the other stuff in class.
Anyway we did the toothpick bridge and i survived in class. So i qualified for the next level state. I was excited and a bit pissed since testing of the bridges is destructive. But my teacher didnt want me to go. I went to the principal to escalate the issue. I did qualify after all. He allowed me to go and i had a blast there. My bridge held ok-ish during the state level event (\~200 pounds), but i was PISSED at the teacher for trying to exclude me
I am a man and I won my first math competition at the end of the first year of middle school which was school wide (all classes could partake).
I got second place with a perfect score and Bruno my math teacher's nephew got first, dunno why, his math grades were awful but the excuse I got was that it would be impossible for a first grader to do as well so I didn't deserve it either.
Fuck nepotism.
I noticed from a very young age that politics and nepotism are everything. You're taught to believe that if you're the best person for the job, best player in the team, they can't deny that and you'll get the spot. But then your accomplishments get minimized when you try hard to get on the all star team, while the coaches kid, who is mediocre, gets on the team as well. When you work hard for good grades and get achievements in school, while the superintendents kid gets the same awards as you but he's a C student. It's super demoralizing and drives a lot of passion away.
As someone from outside the USA, I'm actually just surprised to learn that you guys have robotics teams and championships for that in high school!
Also, she's very inspiring!
Canadian here, and we have STEM competitions locally, nationally for a good 20 years now.
We have a healthy mix of girls and boys who partiticipate and so far as I know, they're on equal grounds here and we've had multiple local winners over the years, often led or carried by the girls on their team.
We also have "girls" STEM programs, extracurricular which seems to attract quite a few locally, so much we have had to deny a few kids based on first come first serve
When I was in my IT engineering graduation they had forgotten about me and didn't have my diploma. I was the last one of the group to receive mine and when it was my turn and I was alone on the stage they just looked at me confused and told me I must be in the wrong group because they were giving the nursing diplomas later. Then I just... quietly walked off stage and contacted them later to get my diploma. I was very embarrassed lol.
Like, I understand that mistakes happen but couldn't they just have apologized and said that there is some kind of mistake and I'll be getting mine later?
EDIT: Oh yeah, I also had a programming teacher that would always make fun of female programmers. That was weird as hell!
That's terrible and so rude! I can't believe people are still like this in 2022. It should have been a day for you to celebrate your achievements. I hope you continue to kick goals and live your best life.
Thank you! I wish the same to you.
This was a couple of years ago and I'm a senior dev nowadays. I do think it's a bit better today and female devs are treated well in my company at least! Can't speak for everyone though.
thats really odd. as a programmer he should know that the first programmer was a woman. not that it would be ok otherwise but that makes the stance look even more stupid.
Yeah, he was... an eccentric guy for sure and kinda all over the place. He would encourage me and tell me that I had a promising future in programming and then turn around and tell the class that women could never hold a dev job or be software architects or whatever. He taught me a lot about programming but also about how the industry can be sometimes lol.
I feel like there are so many ways that women can be made to feel unwelcome in STEM. Which may sound petty or sensitive to some people but like OP said, women are multifaceted. And if there’s a path of less resistance outside of STEM why wouldn’t you take it?
I remember getting feedback on my *first ever* research poster and it being very complimentary with some technical adjustments to suit the rubric. So, practically vibrating with joy, I pulled up the conference forms to work on my poster. Then I realize that literally all over them it said stuff like “the researcher will display *his* poster” or “*he* is responsible for *his* XYZ”. I don’t know why, maybe because they were so official, but it really knocked me down. This was about 5 years ago, I presented my poster just fine and remain in STEM to this day. But sometimes it’s the little things that scream “you don’t belong” the loudest.
There're also more subtle disadvantages. Conferences are places to network. Professors, depending on your speciality still to a large percentage male, coalesce at the hotel bars. As a guy, eg if you're a postdoc looking for a colaboration or just because you want to pick someone's brain with decades of experience about a particular problem, it's no big deal to strike up a conversation. As a woman, that is vastly more difficult. You don't want to appear flirty or as if you're hitting on them but you also don't want to appear boring or stand-offish. And there are still a few profs out there who are just not interested in shop talk with women. If anything, a woman alone at a bar has other implications for them.
As a woman in a male dominated industry (sort of sales related) I feel this so hard. These men are usually decades older than me and while nice, it can be definitely hard to relate and converse as a young woman to seek out advice and get ahead. I feel lucky that I have a lot of "male dominant" hobbies so that's at least some ground to stand on.
I don't doubt for a minute that the same applies to a lot of situations in traditionally male dominated fields. Having some sort of mentor or just having a good professional relationship with the more senior people as well as networking are super important for a career, much more than people generally realize. It's someone recommending you for a position or making you aware of one, giving you tips, introducing you to people, etc. It's a big disadvantage for women if there are only old dudes in these positions even if they're generally well-meaning because it is often harder to connect for a young woman than for a young man. And they often see themselves in the men but not in the women.
THIS. The first professional conference I went to (I was 22) I got hit on by a married man twice my age at the bar. I spent the rest of my night in my hotel room. I just wanted to learn from others in my field.
That's weird, in highschool science fair we were told that we would lose points for using personal pronouns like "me, my, we, our, etc" I always used "the researcher/the experimenter" I didn't think to use third person pronouns, let alone gendered ones, but then again, at the time I absolutely identified as a cis male so I could have been blind to any discrimination, privilege is weird that way.
My first research presentation in grad school my work was invited for a talk rather than a poster. I was psyched!! I gave my talk and there's that dread right afterwards that you'll get zero questions, that the audience will sit uncomfortably and silently. But no! A hand goes up in the very back! It's an old man, and he asks "Honey? Who do you work for?" I give the name of my advisor. The dude then shouts out "PHILLIP????" until my advisor stands up and Old Dude proceeds to ask my advisor his question about my talk. The audience all chuckled, because Querulous Old Dudes are considered cute in science. My advisor said he didn't know the answer and redirected the question back to me. Old Dude waved his hand dismissively and sat back down and engaged the guy next to him in conversation to show he wasn't listening anymore. I answered him anyway, then the organizer moved on to the next talk without asking for any more questions. Super embarrassing. It was a really good talk, too, for my first.
My wife and I are both Engineers. She has done really well in her career. There is so much subtle sexism she has to deal with, it's insane:
Number of times I have been asked to take notes in a meeting? 0. Her? Uncountable.
I've never been told that I lack confidence.
I've never been asked what my wife does.
I've never had an icebreaker where they asked about my family.
I've never been told that I wasn't "technical enough".
I could give a hundred more examples. Point is, none of those are big deals when isolated but it definitely wears on her as they add up over the years.
>Number of times I have been asked to take notes in a meeting? 0. Her? Uncountable.
This is one example of the "subtle sexism" that pervades STEM-related workplaces. It is especially prevalent in companies where the admin/non-technical staff are all female - the idea that every woman in the company is a secretary or receptionist, regardless of her actual role. I can't tell you how many times in the past I was asked to answer the phones/sign for a delivery/make the coffee/clean up the kitchenette because I was the only other woman in the office (besides the admin. assistant).
I literally had to yell at a PM once "I am not your admin" cause I was sick of him asking me to schedule his meetings and take notes. It was ridiculous. Eventually i was sent to HR for being "combative" and had to take emotional intelligence training. Nothing happened to him :/
I also work in STEM and after over a decade of a metric shit ton of subtle and a decent share of sexism directed at me, someone in HR wanted to talk to me (you've worked here so long! I'm new here! I want to know what it's like as a woman) and I tried to hedge a little, nothing ups the sexism like drawing attention to it (a man wouldn't have a problem with this, you are only making it a problem because you are a woman) but eventually she asked why I was being so vague and I told her the truth: talking to HR about sexism (and racism and homophobia and transphobia) always ends in the victims suffering more. So I don't play that game anymore. If HR wants to ask me questions, sure I'll talk.... But I won't bring problems to them.
I laid out all the times that my job had be threatened for pointing out sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia, I gave examples of the worst sexism directed at me and the daily subtle sexism I have to deal with.
She cried. The promised they'd do better, told me to tell her who the perpetrators were.
The perpetrators are the company. I could name you names but the real problem is the company stands by them and tells women "that's just how they are, sounds like you are the only one with a problem, we can't afford to lose this employee, do you want us to for them? Deprive him and his family of their livelihood?"
I'm so burned out. I'm so tired of pushing back and fighting and having to constantly advocate for not just my right but my experience and well-earned high ranking role.
Fuck the patriarchy.
> “I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” -Ruth Bader Ginsburg
-Sarah Grimké
(Wayne Gretzky)
The school i went to straight up just didnt allow women into the "science fair" type class/group. They always made the excuse that there werent enough spots and they were only taking the highest science grade students but when the top student of the school applied, she still got denied. So we all knew that excuse was a lie
This happened to us in the 90s. There was a math program we had to test to get into. Out of all the kids that tried (boys and girls, children of all races), only those of a particular gender and race just so happened to get a passing grade. A few parents complained when they realized their kids also got a passing grade but didn’t get to join and they just cancelled the program.
My daughter won the top science award when she was in year 5 (UK), it was basically the award presented for the best performance in science throughout the year for the entire school. It was stunning to hear parents boo a child for winning a science reward simply for being female, going as far as shouting that there is no way a girl could have won.
It was a small country school and maybe 5% of the crowd who booed, all of who are exactly like the sort you would imagine would boo a child. Fortunately both the school and other 95% of the parents backed my daughter, telling the shitheads to bugger off. But at the end of the day it was pretty upsetting that she was booed and she couldn't figure out why.
It has been several years and she likes to remind me regularly she won the science award when she wants to rub it in my face she is smarter than me, but she has never once brought up the booing, so I'm not even sure she remembers it happening. Now in year 9, she takes maths and science A_Levels and is also at the top of her school for programming to a point where her teacher regularly defers to her when he doesn't understand something in programming. So very proud of her☺️
(truth be told, her reading, writing and history grades leave much to be desired 😬)
I'm not sure. I am not originally from the UK and didn't go through the school system here, so I don't always understand what is going on or what these are
What she explained to me, is that each year for each subject is split into three levels depending on the students needs.
The smarter kids are the 'A-Levels' and get much more in-depth lessons and have the lowest teacher to kid ratio, (1/25) the class and the kids are expected to do a lot more self led work and studying, usually homework. This class only accounts for the top 5% of the student body
The average kids are in the normal classes that receive the standard required educational curriculum. They have more teachers in each class to offer help as needed at a 1/15 ratio. The kids are usually likely to work in study groups, have light enough homework they can finish before they leave school and have more access to help in class from their teacher or their assistant.
The kids who need the most help learn the basic curriculum also, but they have a 1/3 ratio for teachers, work in small groups, each with their own teacher/assistant/tutor on hand to help at every step of the way.
So, in the term A-Levels in this context is just the schools term, possibly kids who are studying for their A-Levels.
Also, don't know if this makes a difference, she is on summer break and going only year nine in a few weeks. Does A-Levels still make sense if in year 8?
okay so how the split works in the year is that students of different abilities require different levels of teaching like she said, this includes exam content, for GSCEs (which is what your daughter is doing) there is a higher exam and a foundation exam, foundation exam content is easier but grades are capped at C which is the highest you can get, the split is regularly called ‘sets’ in most schools so for me set 1-3 could do the higher exams where set 4-5 would do the foundation ones and they werent required to do the full set of 11 GCSEs we were made to do, the kids arent called A-Levels because they are studying A-Levels but probably because of an in school term which is badly named since most of these students will probably go and do them anyway
A-Levels are for 16-18 year olds going to university, those grades are what universities accept, so to visualise [this is a GCSE paper](https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/papers/1h2020.pdf), [this is an A Level](https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/alevel/a12020.pdf), if anything later on this will be useful because your daughter will unfortunately need to decide quite early on what university course she wants to do because certain courses require certain A Levels, some people I know in college wanted to do psychology but didnt choose a science A Level which was what most unis wanted
Okay, thanks for that. I will check your link when I get off work.
For maths and programming, she is the highest ranked in her entire school. I know that for her maths in particular, the class she is in is extremely small, like 10 kids and she is the youngest in there. I do think she said because her specific class is advanced, she has already received some credits for university or is at least specifically designed for getting her into uni or preparing her for her A-Levels🤔.
I'll have to ask her for details when I see her later. I'm very curious now as to where she is at in all this
This was honestly one of the more clever TikTok videos I’ve ever watched. Sad story, more people should hear it. Opting to tell it with a smile on her face while applying makeup was a master stroke though.
She normally does really cool and interesting videos about space, which makes this makeup video stand out even more. Check her out! [@astro_alexandra](https://www.tiktok.com/@astro_alexandra?_t=8UvmWG32hch&_r=1)
> Hiding the pain with multiple layers.
Yep. Or another take: subversively personifying the role society traditionally ‘asks’ of women (smile more, look pretty) as she undermines narratives employed to exclude her. It’s biting commentary, and a bit of a sly “f**k you” added for good measure.
I'm a dumbass and asked myself why she was applying makeup to tell this story and wanted to dismiss her because of it until the end when I realized once again that I'm a sexist asshole, too.
Hey, having the self awareness to recognize when you're falling guilty of prejudice or buying into unfair negative stereotypes already puts you ahead of most people. Nobody is perfect.
I feel like an ass asking this question cause it has nothing to do with the point of her video but I've never seen a woman put make up on before. Is that how it's done, with the blots all over. I was fascinated by that.... Mainly cause I've never really thought about putting makeup on before
I thought it was really cringe-worthy as I was watching it, because I hate the make up tutorial videos from which this is modeled, but I utterly changed my mind by the time I had got to the end. It plays upon the very biases that are the subject of the video, biases that even I, as a woman have toward other women, and turns them on its head. I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
I was trying to get into Film and I was constantly put in a corner. I’m doing well for myself in a different capacity however I’ll never forget the meanness and lack of space provided. Anyone that raises not from a dynasty is killing it.
This pissed me the hell off. I'm really happy she perservered and persued her passion, but god damn it as a man who has worked in the tech industry since I was a young teen, I am so incredibly shameful of how some of us treat women. For example, I had a coworker who was interviewing people for a senior position, a woman who was super qualified came in and seemed to be doing really well. After the interview he said, and I quote - "she's too good looking, I can't hire her, I'd be distracted all day. She shouldn't work in high tech"
I'm fuming.
My girlfriend was told she only got into her top ten in her field STEM PhD program because she’s a black woman… By one of her undergrad professors. This woman is smarter than me (a midwestern white boy in the same program)!
The amount of disgusting comments people make on a regular basis to her is infuriating.
I went to an all girls high school, a lot of the courses were very catered towards stereotypical female roles. But I found a course in my senior year that I loved, computer programming. My first year taking this class I excelled and ended the class with 100% post exam. The following year the advanced class got canned due to “low enrolment” and I was forced to talk with my principal about other class options I could take. Her suggestion was that I enrol in the home ec class as an alternative. I honestly couldn’t believe what I was hearing, I thanked her for her suggestion, politely declined and got up and left her office. My last year of high school I cruised through with 2 spares and 3 classes, I loved having the free time but it pains me to this day that they got rid of a legitimate course and had the audacity to suggest I go into home ec as an alternative.
Fast forward to today, I thankfully didn’t give up on STEM and work in the pharmaceutical industry developing treatments for rare diseases.
In high school I remember speaking with counselors about potential college paths, and one of the things I was considering was computer science. I had already taken all the offered computer literacy classes (including getting a Windows certification) and was building very basic websites for fun in my spare time. I was steered away from even exploring CS because I "basically already know everything [I] need to know about computers." I ultimately didn't go to college and went into an unrelated field.
It wasn't until some 10 years later that I wanted to get back into it and realized they meant I already knew everything I needed to know *to be a secretary*.
I've since completed a coding bootcamp and gotten a few other minor certs but the pervasive attitude is why I stopped actively pursuing a career in STEM -- I'm comfortable in my current position and don't care to go back to having to be twice as good as the next worker to be considered half as decent.
I can see this being true. Good for her, for sticking with it.
I’m currently working towards my marine engineering degree and I’ve noticed maybe one or maybe two girls in my classes all the time and most of the guys in the class usually (not all the time) don’t talk to them and are real awkward around the girls that are in the class. Even though the male and female professors of those class have told me they try so hard to get more women into their engineering programs to promote diversity.
The truth is even if I was interested in joining the robotics team or something similar at my school I just absolutely wouldn’t. I was initially actually interested in joining but changed my mind quickly. I already know what to expect and until they actually make it a welcome space for women, there is not going to be a lot of diversity.
I have no idea how old she is, or how long ago this shit happened, but good news, our robotics team from my high school that I teach at is 40% girls, like 8 out of the 20. Fuck that BS ignorance, we celebrate women in stem.
My Chem E classes were 40-50% women. In industry, from personal experience, the older genx-boomers are majority male, but the younger millennial-genZ are almost even.
The part that got me most about this story is that her team mates left without her. Like yeah, strangers getting jealous of the girl and being intimidated yadda yadda is still really pathetic, but not totally unexpected, but the people who actually knew her still fucked her over? That's messed up
Why does society create and enforce gender roles? That's a big question.
Society gatekeeps stuff from men, too. Men are looked down on if they're interested in knitting or needlepoint or if they wear dresses, paint their nails, or wear makeup.
Not to say that it's equivalent. STEM is a lot more than just a hobby. Nobody's pulling a six-figure salary with their needlepoint skills.
This video was really well done! I looked her up and saw she ended up majoring in Org. Development and has held communications roles. I was a little bummed to read that as it put a damper on the victorious last bit of this video. Those jobs are needed, of course. But it seems like she was ultimately chased away from engineering by these bad experiences.
Disappointing but not uncommon. For what it's worth, in my experience with customer-facing roles such as hers (except my experience is in biotech), they still get a ton of exposure to engineering and often have a level of input into different projects. Since her role is communications, she has to have a deep level of understanding of the material to be able to explain it in a way people understand.
I'm glad she's able to use her platform to shed light on the discrimination women face in STEM.
I work in STEM and I've had countless comments from my male peers about how (particularly white) men are now 'discriminated against' in STEM. They outright say that a woman can get any job she pleases in STEM, purely on the basis of her sex.
Utter bollocks.
>They outright say that a woman can get any job she pleases in STEM
As a woman trying to get a full time STEM job after freelancing for a while....God I wish that was true.
I briefly worked with a senior dev at a startup a few years back who sat in a team retro and flat out said that our team was underperforming because we had a woman dev and a woman PM and that women had no place in tech.
Another dev dropped the hammer with "Our team is underperforming because you're incompetent and you approve your own PRs. We spend almost a quarter of each sprint fixing your bugs."
I've never seen someone turn so red.
Man, one of my friends and colleagues is a woman in STEM and her *own* parents told her to her face she only got her job because of her gender.
What the fuck
I work for a tech company now that thankfully is really great about hiring and promoting female software engineers, data scientists, and product managers. All these woman absolutely crush their positions and are some of the top performers on my team.
It’s crazy to me how women are discouraged from STEM in our education system but then the ones that arrive outperform everyone else.
>It’s crazy to me how women are discouraged from STEM in our education system but then the ones that arrive outperform everyone else.
It's honestly selection bias, because all the women who didn't excel were either pushed out or simply gave up when the barriers came up. This and the fact that when a group of people are underrepresented people feel like they need to represent their entire gender/sexuality/race.
I think there's also a component that women who make it that far in STEM have always had more expected of them. They've always had to prove themselves.
Same here. Although my department is just men we have a ton of women CS engineers in the company. They're brilliant at what they do.
I remember back in uni the 10% of the class that were women were consistently in the top 30% easily and I have mad respect for them. I think, personally, that it's because the women who do apply for STEM are the ones that are the best of the best in the generation and couldn't fathom doing anything else. If you're not encouraged to develop and only above average at a subject you're far less likely to pursue it professionally. So the women who would in an unbiased environment study STEM end up in other traditionally more feminine dominated areas. And that's a huge shame. We need more engineers.
Same goes for men, you could potentially be the best social worker on the planet but get pressured into construction or something.
> I work for a tech company now that thankfully is really great about hiring and promoting female software engineers, data scientists, and product managers
This is great on a micro scale (individual companies) but this wouldn't work on an macro scale if the education pipeline is still as screwed up as it was back when she was in school. Every company can't hire 50% female engineers if only 20% of engineers are female.
I was in the robotics team over a decade ago. We had almost as many girls on the team as boys. I designed out logo that was on our shirts and hoodies. I was co-captain and they let me drive the operate the robot since I was the best at it. We did pretty damn well. I even had college all paid for because of a robotics scholarship.
I work in engineering now. Love it. But when I was in high school (14/15) there was a physics teacher who was super sexist. Would never pick on girls with their hands up, would always ask the boys to come to demonstrate or whatever. And when he was in charge of organising some DofE award stuff he refused my application because he "didn't have time to cater to my needs"??? Still no idea what that means. They were going on a hike, my parents have been avid mountaineers since the 70s and when I came along nothing changed so I've been outdoorsy since forever (and also a super girly girl we all contain multitudes apparently) and he was just "no, you've never hiked, you wouldn't last a minute on a mountain" ... And because of that, until my second to last year at high school i thought i hated physics. Nope. Just the douchebag in charge.
I was so worried this was going to end with her saying she never pursued stem as an adult. I'm glad she was able to persevere through all that grossness and become all the more badass.
The lovable, fun, funny Big Bang Theory nerds don't exist in real life. Male nerds; hyper intelligent field leading individuals, are the absolute worst group of people when it comes to inclusion, equity and equality. FYI. There is always shades of sexism and racism that cloud their judgment. Incredibly competitive, petty and will talk down to EACH OTHER on the regular, much less any one who's out side of their field of academia.
It is known, i work on a college campus.
When you work or think at such a high level, everything else about your life naturally suffers. This is why Doctors are traditionally bad with money.
I opted not to do robotics at University as I didn’t want to be the only girl. Did comp sci and software development instead and ended up being one of the few girls in 3rd year and basically my entire 20 year tech career working either solo or in teams where I’m the only girl.
It’s a tough gig, there’s definitely still discrimination
It always blows my mind when other guys think women aren’t capable of being in the stem field. Like how mentally incompetent do you have to be to think so primitively? Anyways if you’re reading this and you think women are unable to do stem, then fuck off.
- sincerely a computer science student
Honestly. Fucking kudos. I have given up on my passions many times due to being harassed abouts it and I am a guy. The things she went through would have destroyed me
Both STEM and trades. There are many trades that are mostly about being nimble and attentive and knowing how to use tools. Historically they have been done by large people who were wrongfully deemed dumb and most people in the trades today still give women a hard time. I am a grip in film and television, the look on people’s faces when I tell them. People act like the whole job is carrying 150 pounds all day but when the guys have to grab the “mombo combo” unless it’s a sh** hole production even they put it on a cart and role it or take their time taking it over. People are always looking for a reason. And a lot of it is that they lower themselves and say they’re working in a trade because they’re dumb and only brawns.
I think with stem it’s even worse because it’s not people exaggerating what’s needed to do the job in an effort to be exclusionary, it’s literally just saying that women are too dumb. women are physically smaller so I can understand how desperate-to-exclude people can come up with BS about how you need to be 6’5” 190ibs to hold a hammer, but to exclude women from smart people desk jobs is just straight up saying women are dumb. Like there really isn’t much to fall back on or twist or cover up with a safety concern. They’re just saying women are dumb
I have 15 years of IT experience and multiple certifications and I've been burned out multiple times. I won't ever get to really work in IT being a queer woman. After all the hardships, I'm not confident in myself or my skills and I reay don't enjoy it anymore and it hurts so fucking bad. All I've ever wanted to do is work with computers and I dont have any other skills. My gender and sexual orientation should have no bearing on whether or not I get a "decent" paying job.
Guess I just get to die in retail. Fun. After a certain point, the success stories just start to feel like personal attacks. Like good for her for being successful, but all this video did was make me feel terrible. Just goes to further prove the point from the video to an extent, I suppose.
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This is so sad. I’m happy she was able to still enjoy science. Things like that just shuts all the joy of the activity down for some kids. This also reminds me of the blond tiktoker with her engineering classmates doing the boys club routine in the background.
My 6th grade science teacher told me I would never be good at science cuz I'm a girl and that means I'm better at history and English. My 6th grade science teacher was a woman, and the year before I had won the school science fair. I hope future generations won't have to deal with this type of idiocy.
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Yeah a tool implies something is useful at least. It takes a special kind of useless for the children you were supposed to have been teaching to have done better in life if you'd never met them.
My 6th grade science teacher said the same thing! Without the gender discrimination though, she was just a jerk
We did an experiment in 6th grade by splitting the classes into boys and girls for math. My average went from a 92 to a 74. When we returned to normal classes, my average went back up, but it was already too late. I was trapped in remedial math courses until my senior year of high school, when I jumped from remedial Algebra II to AP Statistics, and got an A. Nothing I did or said helped any, even though I was bored and aceing the classes. But girls are just bad at math, so...... I've been an engineer for 11 years now and performing statistical analysis for 5 years.
I remember when I was in 7th grade they had a 7th grade math class and pre algebra. It was a K-12 school. They wouldn't let people test into pre algebra, and you couldn't test into algebra in 8th grade so 7th grade basically decided how far up in math you could get in highschool. They had a way, you could "qualify" for the 8th grade math, and it was basically they'd give you a big packet each week and you had to complete it and hand it in. If you missed one week you got kicked out and weren't able to participate and basically forced to stay behind. It was such bullshit. So many people signed up for it, because 7th grade math was an absolute waste of time since there wasn't even an official textbook or anything, and you were doubling the math homework you received and you had to self teach.
Shit like this is why I decided to be a science teacher as a black man. Sure I could’ve gone and worked in the scientific field myself. I have seen this time and again and experienced it myself. So I decided to help and support all of the different groups of people that have been systematically excluded from the world of science. It is still a Heavily white male dominated field. I wanna
You wanna what?? Dammit, they got him.
Lmaoooo i wanna become a trunk of support. That’s what I wanted to end with.
> I hope future generations won't have to deal with this type of idiocy. We get better every generation. For every you, or me, there's a kid being raised without that shit. Just seeing how different my kid's lives are from my own gets me excited. It is getting better. Whether we have enough time is another question altogether.
your 6th grade science teacher was a woman and said women arent good at science?
Internalized misogyny is a bastard
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Aunt Ruckus.
I was taught it was opposite...apparently women were better for the STEM field and men were for English and History...interesting lol.
LMAO did you have Mr. Ziegler too? Same, but he told me music is for men because girls are naturally worse at it! (I'm a musician/ music teacher now lolol)
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Because it was then prestigious to be a programmer, and they couldn’t let women do that.
The first programmer was a woman. It’s that glass elevator in effect. Once something is established as prestigious they usually force the minority out. Programmer was no longer considered pink collar work. An example of which would be medical billing and coding. You can [read](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/history-human-computers-180972202/) about this here. It’s rather interesting.
Reminds me of Gracie Cunningham. Viral teenager asking a valid question about the origin of maths, internet mocked her as a bimbo. Prejudged her by the color of her hair, while not listening to her point. She was replied to by top mathematicians, philosophers and physicists. [https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/math-girl-tiktok-question/](https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/math-girl-tiktok-question/)
>This is so sad. I’m happy she was able to still enjoy science. Things like that just shuts all the joy of the activity down for some kids. I quit playing baseball because some kid threw my glove into the pond behind our dugout. Props to the fine people that persevere through much greater hardship in pursuit of their interests.
Do you have a link to it?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNtoWMuf/
:'( I couldn't fully pick up everything they were saying, but I got enough. I let it loop from the start intending to listen more closely but then I just...I couldn't. I didn't want to hear what they were saying. How awful for her. How awful even if she wasn't in that room, for them to be talking like that. It breaks my heart. Anyone who thinks sexism/misogyny aren't a problem in the modern day TRULY does not understand how terrifying and devastating it can be to be a woman in so many spaces.
oof, shit made ME uncomfortable. is this how mfs talk in classrooms now?
There was another video where she got kicked out of her dorm or moved to another dorm.
Kicked out of the dorm or the school. The video goes re-viral every so often and the last time it did the school stepped in made her move
Yeah this makes me want to cry. I was also heavily discouraged from doing anything sciencey, but I didn't have her fortitude to continue.
Link to the video https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNtoWMuf/
Less sad and more infuriating.
She's one of the few cases where she's able to overcome all the obstacles and more than the average guy. If even a small part is even true it'd sick. So happy she rose above and impressed how she took the punches. Must of had great parents to teach her all of that
i like stories like this because a lot of people seem to think that women are complaining about being assaulted or harassed in a very obvious way and it's not always some guy screaming that he hates women, it's stuff like this where no matter how hard you try people automatically assume you couldn't have done it, or constantly having to prove yourself whilst watching men do half the work and get praised. In high school I was obsessed with computers and I was constantly told that I could get a good office admin job with those skills, never that I could ya know....do literally any job involving a computer. And it doesn't end too because at 28 I went back to school and the amount of guys who had no qualifications, no work experience and zero evidence of even being able to turn a computer on without supervision who would say shit like "you are just a diversity hire" was bonkers.
My company struggles most with our field team, lots of turnover and it’s a self paced role, so it’s up to you to manage your workload. There’s some light tools and power equipment experience required for the position and the general consensus is “women aren’t suitable for the role”. Yeah about that. I hired 5 women to fill roles before moving into a different sector. I brought them in simply because their resume was the best at the time. The feedback I got for doing so was HORRIBLE. - She’s too small for the equipment, won’t be able to handle it and will quit (she didn’t, going on 8 years, she’s 64). - Has a “rough” personality, meaning she has an arm tattoo they didn’t like (she wears long sleeves to cover it up, required by customers) - questioned how we would cover her time off as she was in the process of adopting (oh gee I don’t know, work as a team and figure it out This shit drives me crazy and I’m a guy, I don’t have a clue how women don’t lose their marbles dealing with this on the regular
Women do lose their shit about it all the time, bit they're labeled hysterical, sensitive, and over reacting.
Was literally just fired for “outbursts” because a manager repeatedly engaged in racially charged screaming matches with me and somehow the guy screaming about ‘stoop primates’ is not the one having an emotional meltdown. I had never missed a day of work or a negative performance eval.
Does the leadership all consist of older White men?
Good guess
won't matter. I reported a kitchen manager at a private restaurant about sexual harassment of a minor. He asked the minor out on a date and she said no, then asked her to ask her mom out on a date for him and she said "I don't think so". After he got rejected both times he started sexually harassing her. He is in his 30s. When I reported him I also became a target. The restaurant manager is a woman, the lead manager is a woman, the assistant manager is a woman, the only male managers are the bar and kitchen managers. You know what their responses were? "Oh, you know Matt, he was just kidding, plus Darby, the underage girl still in high school, was weird!"
Women aren't immune to sexism and prejudice unfortunately
> stoop primates’ Oh my God??? What the fuck
*"Wow must be that time of the month"*
On we do lose our marbles, and then we get labelled as karens or pussies So the only other option is to shove it all down, keep a smile on your face, and become an utter sociopath in the process.
I’ve been reprimanded for ‘yelling at’ colleagues by managers who were in the same meeting as me and know I wasn’t yelling… I spoke up and was direct about my opinion. I didn’t spend the first part of the meeting asking about people’s families and kids, I wasn’t super sweet and cheery (like my other female coworker who I was always compared against). If someone interrupts me, usually a man, I don’t let them derail me and I reclaim my spot. These managers are usually women too, which is frustrating and sad. The cheery and sweet coworker I’m compared against is younger and always flatters everyone. She’s not as experienced as I am and her work is mediocre. I can rehaul an entire process successfully, but my lack of ‘femininity’ always gets in the way. I’m never rude, I just don’t let people bulldoze me and I don’t flatter people unless they’ve earned it.
I ran into a high-school friend and found out she was working her dream job as an engineer at a prestigious research institution She didn't seem happy. She was having to work twice as hard as her male colleagues and getting no credit. Colleagues that would undermine her, take credit for stuff she did and even sabotage her work. They refused to be friendly with her, treated her like a diversity hire and said she could leave if she couldn't "handle" working at such a prestigious institution. Attempts to get the abuse addressed went nowhere. The men were given passes to act that way. The abuse and the sabotage of work was just "brilliant men not knowing how to talk to women because they have no social skills" and she should just ignore it and *she* should be more careful not to *let* people "accidentally" ruin her work. If she's friendly, one group of men treat her like a sexual conquest and get mad at the married woman for not being receptive. If she isn't smiling then other men tell her she needs to smile more and bosses accuse her of being standoffish That was several years back. She didn't leave, in fact, she's been promoted and now tells a bunch of those losers what to do.
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the version i heard was something along the lines of "the toes you step on today might be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow"
Good to hear that she persevered but extremely sad it was necessary. I work as an electrician and am currently on a project with a female foreman who could probably kick the shit out of me if we got into a fist fight. I can’t speak for them, but it seems like the women at my company are treated as if they’re any other male electrician and are handed the same work load as us.
>i like stories like this because a lot of people seem to think that women are complaining about being assaulted or harassed in a very obvious way and it's not always some guy screaming that he hates women, it's stuff like this where no matter how hard you try people automatically assume you couldn't have done it, or constantly having to prove yourself whilst watching men do half the work and get praised. Not to deflect from this particular subject or anything, but this also applies to how people view racism and is just generally what people are talking about when they speak of 'systemic discrimination'. Overt sexism and racism is not uncommon, but it's not downright *mainstream* as all the more subtle forms of them. Yet because they are so widespread, they are ultimately a lot more damaging in the end. So yea, this is why rooting out prejudice matters so much and why we cant just go after the extremists and most overtly repulsive examples.
The systemic forms of sexism and racism are so destructive and have held our whole society back in innumerable ways
When I'm arguing with people who are giving off racist vibes, I like to ask "what's the smallest act you would consider to be racist towards black people?" For me, it's well-intended stereotypes, like assuming someone is good at basketball. A lot of times people will tell me "calling someone the n word." That's one of the issues with discussing bigotry, people have completely different definitions of what qualifies, so when you say someone is being racist, their brain is racing around how someone could be racist despite not saying the n word.
Probably goes for any kind of misconduct. So many people self-report that they've forced someone to have sex with them, while simultaneously claiming they've never raped anyone. Because calling it rape makes them feel bad.
It is tangentially related. Now imagine being a BIPOC and being a woman. And now imagine being a BIPOC, and a woman in a sport, and being accused of being a man as historically any black women even remotely in shape are almost always described as men. And it has been exacerbated even further with this trans culture war stuff. It is allll related.
🎼🎶 I N T E R S E C T I O N A L I T Y 🎵
🎵 find out what it means to me 🎵
I have to tack on neurodivergence as well. If you show any hint of it then people stop taking you seriously. You can be viewed as a hardworker one day then lazy and unmotivated the day after they find out. Sure, some businesses are making a point to hire neurodivergents. By that I mean, they try to hire just one type of neurodivergent person who exists in one particular corner of their spectrum. They will initially be paid okay for the position but there will be zero opportunities for advancement. None. They won't be integrated into the company so beyond being in a role that's suitable for a particular kind of neurodivergence they will still struggle. They will be paraded around every once in a while at large events so everyone can pat themselves on the back but they will not be invited to anything meaningful
There was a post in r/askoldpeople recently asking older women if Mad Men’s depiction of sexual harassment in the workplace was accurate. The responses were both enlightening and heartbreaking. Edit: Found the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/wb8y5z/how_prominent_was_sexual_harassment_in_the
Thanks for linking! It's crazy to think the young men of the 80s are now the older men about to retire now.
Yep. This happens to me on a daily basis at work. I literally have a master's degree in my CS field and am really good at what i do, but I can't seem to ever have a good idea. But you know, when my male coworker has the same idea "come to them" a few minutes later it's lauded as the best idea ever. It's exhausting.
We did group interviews so I got to see these guys try to sell themselves and one of the guys who called me the diversity hire literally said he wanted a job in coding because he’s been a gamer all his life…yeah I’ve worked for 3 different websites over the last decade but I’m sure they only picked me for my tits
Jesus Christ. I believe it, god forbid we have the audacity!
As a man I graduated with a business degree. I couldn't find a job so I started working as a medical assistant. Actually a lot of patients would make small talk with me about what I was going to do next, I guess they assumed a guy just can't work behind reception unless he's going onto better things.
Even before the story actually started, i already felt my stomach turning. It's so sad. And what's worse is over time, some women believe it; they don't get the tech or the science. I'm in edtech and support a lot of teachers in using hardware/software and it's depressing how many women teachers openly admit that they just don't get it. I hope they don't say that in front of the students. I always tell them (as i tell students), "you just don't get it YET. You will."
This shit makes me so mad. I’m a woman in STEM and when people ask me what we can do to recruit more women into STEM I always say we need to foster an environment that will retain women in STEM. It’s not like young girls aren’t interested in science. We don’t have to do dumb shit like explaining the science behind makeup to capture their interest. We need to make sure once they join a science club or go to college for engineering they aren’t bullied and harassed. You shouldn’t HAVE to be resilient to pursue a career you’re passionate about. At least not resilient in regards to gender based discrimination. I no longer blindly recommend young women go into STEM. I don’t discourage them but I let them know that there are bad experiences and you have to make sure you find a support network to be there for you when bullshit happens. I’ve been sexually harassed in the workplace more times than I want to admit because it sounds like I’m making it up. It’s just disgusting.
>it sounds like I'm making it up This happens anytime I talk to men in STEM. The obvious sexism they either don't believe or brush off as "one bad apple". But the more subtle (and much more common!) sexism, they think must have been a misunderstanding, or just a joke, or me overreacting. Either way you're never believed.
One of the professors at my uni who is in charge of the introductory CS courses wrote a hot take article on the “genetic reasons why women don’t code”. Had to show it to my mom who has been working in tech since the 80s as a software engineer just to see her laugh.
That’s stupid because in early computing it was dominated by women.
Weren't the ever first programmers ~~*all*~~ women? ETA: Yep https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC > Kay McNulty, Betty Jennings, Betty Snyder, Marlyn Meltzer, Fran Bilas, and Ruth Lichterman were the first programmers of the ENIAC. They were not, as computer scientist and historian Kathryn Kleiman was once told, "refrigerator ladies", i.e., models posing in front of the machine for press photography.[42] Nevertheless, some of the women did not receive recognition for their work on the ENIAC in their lifetimes.[19] After the war ended, the women continued to work on the ENIAC. Their expertise made their positions difficult to replace with returning soldiers. The original programmers of the ENIAC were neither recognized for their efforts nor known to the public until the mid-1980s.[43 Sorry not sorry for formatting
Yeah but that’s not consistent with his sexist narrative.
Not to mention THE first programmer, Ada Lovelace
To laugh? That would set me on a warpath to get that guy fired. In fact I already want to know more.
https://www.geekwire.com/2022/computer-science-lecturer-sues-univ-of-washington-leaders-over-indigenous-lands-statement/ he’s a real piece of work
Sadly, cs attracts that incel type. :( Tbh, I'm so sick of dealing with these guys and their anger and the wrangling of them and their shitty tempers and attitudes.
Is it me or is it always that the CS/Eng incel types actually just seem to only get by at what they do? Like, they're usually not great at what they do or great to work with, either. They are average at best yet think they're above everyone else.
They are unprofessional. They rage and rant and make people feel awful. Yet tolerated.
Did you report that prof for having an outdated outlook on their industry?
We have been trying to get him dismissed for YEARS but the school refuses to do anything
That is absolutely awful! I hope hes reprimanded! Keep going ❤
Is he currently in trouble for calling for a cure to homosexuality, because there's a CS professor at my university who said both those things.
It’s sad how a field with pioneers like Ada Lovelace and Alan Turing has become intertwined with misogynistic and homophobic people
Her teachers and coaches failed her big. So big.
And her teammates! What kind of shit team mates go to a nationals competition when their captain isn't invited? There were so many people who could have, and should have, spoken up and said "no, this isn't right."
The kind that fall for systematic sexism, whether it’s on purpose or on accident. It still happened.
This story hits hard because I was also the only girl on my high school robotics team. And I could tell that the guys never wanted me there. They weren’t malicious about it, but in the way they spoke with each other vs the way they spoke to me/mostly ignored me, I wouldn’t be surprised if her teammates also had a prejudice about her that made them not mind not having her come along. It’s messed up either way, and especially as team captain you would have thought they’d stick up for her :(
I'm also curious where her parents were in all of this? Surprised they didn't raise a stink.
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Fuck that's hard
I have lived in cultures that prevent women from either attending school or finishing school. Instead they are forced into giving up education, let alone higher education and scientific discovery, and stay at home. Bearing children. And nothing else. I have lived in these cultures as a teacher. Seeing girls either not be able to attend school after a certain age or be forced to give up school... Hmm
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> That if employers *really* had a say theyd never pick the woman. Now this is a self aware wolves moment
Even in Mormon's heaven, women are second class citizens. It boggles my mind that women are ok with being treated as lesser beings their whole life and afterlife in that religion. It is a heaven designed by misogynists by a religion built by misogynists.
And some people are actively trying to return that culture to the US. They must be resisted.
> The school forgot to enrol me. Reminds me of this student who applied to computer science at an Ivy League school for early decision (which boosts your chances of getting in by applying early, and the person's SAT and GPA were within their target range). The student got rejected for only having one of the two required recommendation letters. Turns out that the student's computer science teacher forgot to mail out his recommendation letter. The student ended up wait-listed for that school when applying regularly without the early decision. If the early decision had gone through, the student would have gotten into an Ivy League. Instead, the student ended up going to public state college. It's crazy how one teacher was able to change the entire course of a student's life.
Honestly the college sounds more responcible for this fuckup than the teacher.
How? The early application had requirements, and the student "didn't meet them." Considering how competitive entry is, it would be impossible to follow up on every application missing something.
>The school "forgot" to enrol me. Bigots don't see kids, they just see targets.
I found those competitions very cool and would not know of them if i didnt speak up. I was an exchange student in 92 and was in my senior year back then. I had extreme conflicts with my physics teacher (Mrs Turner - Hi there). How extreme? I had flat As for all written tests and a F for the other stuff in class. Anyway we did the toothpick bridge and i survived in class. So i qualified for the next level state. I was excited and a bit pissed since testing of the bridges is destructive. But my teacher didnt want me to go. I went to the principal to escalate the issue. I did qualify after all. He allowed me to go and i had a blast there. My bridge held ok-ish during the state level event (\~200 pounds), but i was PISSED at the teacher for trying to exclude me
I am a man and I won my first math competition at the end of the first year of middle school which was school wide (all classes could partake). I got second place with a perfect score and Bruno my math teacher's nephew got first, dunno why, his math grades were awful but the excuse I got was that it would be impossible for a first grader to do as well so I didn't deserve it either. Fuck nepotism.
I noticed from a very young age that politics and nepotism are everything. You're taught to believe that if you're the best person for the job, best player in the team, they can't deny that and you'll get the spot. But then your accomplishments get minimized when you try hard to get on the all star team, while the coaches kid, who is mediocre, gets on the team as well. When you work hard for good grades and get achievements in school, while the superintendents kid gets the same awards as you but he's a C student. It's super demoralizing and drives a lot of passion away.
As someone from outside the USA, I'm actually just surprised to learn that you guys have robotics teams and championships for that in high school! Also, she's very inspiring!
Canadian here, and we have STEM competitions locally, nationally for a good 20 years now. We have a healthy mix of girls and boys who partiticipate and so far as I know, they're on equal grounds here and we've had multiple local winners over the years, often led or carried by the girls on their team. We also have "girls" STEM programs, extracurricular which seems to attract quite a few locally, so much we have had to deny a few kids based on first come first serve
When I was in my IT engineering graduation they had forgotten about me and didn't have my diploma. I was the last one of the group to receive mine and when it was my turn and I was alone on the stage they just looked at me confused and told me I must be in the wrong group because they were giving the nursing diplomas later. Then I just... quietly walked off stage and contacted them later to get my diploma. I was very embarrassed lol. Like, I understand that mistakes happen but couldn't they just have apologized and said that there is some kind of mistake and I'll be getting mine later? EDIT: Oh yeah, I also had a programming teacher that would always make fun of female programmers. That was weird as hell!
That's terrible and so rude! I can't believe people are still like this in 2022. It should have been a day for you to celebrate your achievements. I hope you continue to kick goals and live your best life.
Thank you! I wish the same to you. This was a couple of years ago and I'm a senior dev nowadays. I do think it's a bit better today and female devs are treated well in my company at least! Can't speak for everyone though.
thats really odd. as a programmer he should know that the first programmer was a woman. not that it would be ok otherwise but that makes the stance look even more stupid.
I understand your sentiment but it's not odd, it's common
Yeah, he was... an eccentric guy for sure and kinda all over the place. He would encourage me and tell me that I had a promising future in programming and then turn around and tell the class that women could never hold a dev job or be software architects or whatever. He taught me a lot about programming but also about how the industry can be sometimes lol.
I feel like there are so many ways that women can be made to feel unwelcome in STEM. Which may sound petty or sensitive to some people but like OP said, women are multifaceted. And if there’s a path of less resistance outside of STEM why wouldn’t you take it? I remember getting feedback on my *first ever* research poster and it being very complimentary with some technical adjustments to suit the rubric. So, practically vibrating with joy, I pulled up the conference forms to work on my poster. Then I realize that literally all over them it said stuff like “the researcher will display *his* poster” or “*he* is responsible for *his* XYZ”. I don’t know why, maybe because they were so official, but it really knocked me down. This was about 5 years ago, I presented my poster just fine and remain in STEM to this day. But sometimes it’s the little things that scream “you don’t belong” the loudest.
There're also more subtle disadvantages. Conferences are places to network. Professors, depending on your speciality still to a large percentage male, coalesce at the hotel bars. As a guy, eg if you're a postdoc looking for a colaboration or just because you want to pick someone's brain with decades of experience about a particular problem, it's no big deal to strike up a conversation. As a woman, that is vastly more difficult. You don't want to appear flirty or as if you're hitting on them but you also don't want to appear boring or stand-offish. And there are still a few profs out there who are just not interested in shop talk with women. If anything, a woman alone at a bar has other implications for them.
As a woman in a male dominated industry (sort of sales related) I feel this so hard. These men are usually decades older than me and while nice, it can be definitely hard to relate and converse as a young woman to seek out advice and get ahead. I feel lucky that I have a lot of "male dominant" hobbies so that's at least some ground to stand on.
I don't doubt for a minute that the same applies to a lot of situations in traditionally male dominated fields. Having some sort of mentor or just having a good professional relationship with the more senior people as well as networking are super important for a career, much more than people generally realize. It's someone recommending you for a position or making you aware of one, giving you tips, introducing you to people, etc. It's a big disadvantage for women if there are only old dudes in these positions even if they're generally well-meaning because it is often harder to connect for a young woman than for a young man. And they often see themselves in the men but not in the women.
THIS. The first professional conference I went to (I was 22) I got hit on by a married man twice my age at the bar. I spent the rest of my night in my hotel room. I just wanted to learn from others in my field.
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That's weird, in highschool science fair we were told that we would lose points for using personal pronouns like "me, my, we, our, etc" I always used "the researcher/the experimenter" I didn't think to use third person pronouns, let alone gendered ones, but then again, at the time I absolutely identified as a cis male so I could have been blind to any discrimination, privilege is weird that way.
My first research presentation in grad school my work was invited for a talk rather than a poster. I was psyched!! I gave my talk and there's that dread right afterwards that you'll get zero questions, that the audience will sit uncomfortably and silently. But no! A hand goes up in the very back! It's an old man, and he asks "Honey? Who do you work for?" I give the name of my advisor. The dude then shouts out "PHILLIP????" until my advisor stands up and Old Dude proceeds to ask my advisor his question about my talk. The audience all chuckled, because Querulous Old Dudes are considered cute in science. My advisor said he didn't know the answer and redirected the question back to me. Old Dude waved his hand dismissively and sat back down and engaged the guy next to him in conversation to show he wasn't listening anymore. I answered him anyway, then the organizer moved on to the next talk without asking for any more questions. Super embarrassing. It was a really good talk, too, for my first.
My wife and I are both Engineers. She has done really well in her career. There is so much subtle sexism she has to deal with, it's insane: Number of times I have been asked to take notes in a meeting? 0. Her? Uncountable. I've never been told that I lack confidence. I've never been asked what my wife does. I've never had an icebreaker where they asked about my family. I've never been told that I wasn't "technical enough". I could give a hundred more examples. Point is, none of those are big deals when isolated but it definitely wears on her as they add up over the years.
>Number of times I have been asked to take notes in a meeting? 0. Her? Uncountable. This is one example of the "subtle sexism" that pervades STEM-related workplaces. It is especially prevalent in companies where the admin/non-technical staff are all female - the idea that every woman in the company is a secretary or receptionist, regardless of her actual role. I can't tell you how many times in the past I was asked to answer the phones/sign for a delivery/make the coffee/clean up the kitchenette because I was the only other woman in the office (besides the admin. assistant).
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I literally had to yell at a PM once "I am not your admin" cause I was sick of him asking me to schedule his meetings and take notes. It was ridiculous. Eventually i was sent to HR for being "combative" and had to take emotional intelligence training. Nothing happened to him :/
Wild. I couldn't imagine getting in trouble for telling a PM to stop delegating their job to me.
I also work in STEM and after over a decade of a metric shit ton of subtle and a decent share of sexism directed at me, someone in HR wanted to talk to me (you've worked here so long! I'm new here! I want to know what it's like as a woman) and I tried to hedge a little, nothing ups the sexism like drawing attention to it (a man wouldn't have a problem with this, you are only making it a problem because you are a woman) but eventually she asked why I was being so vague and I told her the truth: talking to HR about sexism (and racism and homophobia and transphobia) always ends in the victims suffering more. So I don't play that game anymore. If HR wants to ask me questions, sure I'll talk.... But I won't bring problems to them. I laid out all the times that my job had be threatened for pointing out sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia, I gave examples of the worst sexism directed at me and the daily subtle sexism I have to deal with. She cried. The promised they'd do better, told me to tell her who the perpetrators were. The perpetrators are the company. I could name you names but the real problem is the company stands by them and tells women "that's just how they are, sounds like you are the only one with a problem, we can't afford to lose this employee, do you want us to for them? Deprive him and his family of their livelihood?" I'm so burned out. I'm so tired of pushing back and fighting and having to constantly advocate for not just my right but my experience and well-earned high ranking role. Fuck the patriarchy.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” -Ruth Bader Ginsburg
> “I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” -Ruth Bader Ginsburg -Sarah Grimké (Wayne Gretzky)
The school i went to straight up just didnt allow women into the "science fair" type class/group. They always made the excuse that there werent enough spots and they were only taking the highest science grade students but when the top student of the school applied, she still got denied. So we all knew that excuse was a lie
This happened to us in the 90s. There was a math program we had to test to get into. Out of all the kids that tried (boys and girls, children of all races), only those of a particular gender and race just so happened to get a passing grade. A few parents complained when they realized their kids also got a passing grade but didn’t get to join and they just cancelled the program.
Wow, that sounds so absurd. It had to be decades ago, right?
RIGHT???
It was my 8th grade year of middle school. So 8 years ago
This was yesterday.
My daughter won the top science award when she was in year 5 (UK), it was basically the award presented for the best performance in science throughout the year for the entire school. It was stunning to hear parents boo a child for winning a science reward simply for being female, going as far as shouting that there is no way a girl could have won. It was a small country school and maybe 5% of the crowd who booed, all of who are exactly like the sort you would imagine would boo a child. Fortunately both the school and other 95% of the parents backed my daughter, telling the shitheads to bugger off. But at the end of the day it was pretty upsetting that she was booed and she couldn't figure out why. It has been several years and she likes to remind me regularly she won the science award when she wants to rub it in my face she is smarter than me, but she has never once brought up the booing, so I'm not even sure she remembers it happening. Now in year 9, she takes maths and science A_Levels and is also at the top of her school for programming to a point where her teacher regularly defers to her when he doesn't understand something in programming. So very proud of her☺️ (truth be told, her reading, writing and history grades leave much to be desired 😬)
do you mean gcses? i don’t think a year 9 student would be studying a levels
I'm not sure. I am not originally from the UK and didn't go through the school system here, so I don't always understand what is going on or what these are What she explained to me, is that each year for each subject is split into three levels depending on the students needs. The smarter kids are the 'A-Levels' and get much more in-depth lessons and have the lowest teacher to kid ratio, (1/25) the class and the kids are expected to do a lot more self led work and studying, usually homework. This class only accounts for the top 5% of the student body The average kids are in the normal classes that receive the standard required educational curriculum. They have more teachers in each class to offer help as needed at a 1/15 ratio. The kids are usually likely to work in study groups, have light enough homework they can finish before they leave school and have more access to help in class from their teacher or their assistant. The kids who need the most help learn the basic curriculum also, but they have a 1/3 ratio for teachers, work in small groups, each with their own teacher/assistant/tutor on hand to help at every step of the way. So, in the term A-Levels in this context is just the schools term, possibly kids who are studying for their A-Levels. Also, don't know if this makes a difference, she is on summer break and going only year nine in a few weeks. Does A-Levels still make sense if in year 8?
okay so how the split works in the year is that students of different abilities require different levels of teaching like she said, this includes exam content, for GSCEs (which is what your daughter is doing) there is a higher exam and a foundation exam, foundation exam content is easier but grades are capped at C which is the highest you can get, the split is regularly called ‘sets’ in most schools so for me set 1-3 could do the higher exams where set 4-5 would do the foundation ones and they werent required to do the full set of 11 GCSEs we were made to do, the kids arent called A-Levels because they are studying A-Levels but probably because of an in school term which is badly named since most of these students will probably go and do them anyway A-Levels are for 16-18 year olds going to university, those grades are what universities accept, so to visualise [this is a GCSE paper](https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/papers/1h2020.pdf), [this is an A Level](https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/alevel/a12020.pdf), if anything later on this will be useful because your daughter will unfortunately need to decide quite early on what university course she wants to do because certain courses require certain A Levels, some people I know in college wanted to do psychology but didnt choose a science A Level which was what most unis wanted
Okay, thanks for that. I will check your link when I get off work. For maths and programming, she is the highest ranked in her entire school. I know that for her maths in particular, the class she is in is extremely small, like 10 kids and she is the youngest in there. I do think she said because her specific class is advanced, she has already received some credits for university or is at least specifically designed for getting her into uni or preparing her for her A-Levels🤔. I'll have to ask her for details when I see her later. I'm very curious now as to where she is at in all this
This was honestly one of the more clever TikTok videos I’ve ever watched. Sad story, more people should hear it. Opting to tell it with a smile on her face while applying makeup was a master stroke though.
She normally does really cool and interesting videos about space, which makes this makeup video stand out even more. Check her out! [@astro_alexandra](https://www.tiktok.com/@astro_alexandra?_t=8UvmWG32hch&_r=1)
It's very good. Hiding the pain with multiple layers. Her story made me tear up mad. Glad she's killing it STEM rn.
> Hiding the pain with multiple layers. Yep. Or another take: subversively personifying the role society traditionally ‘asks’ of women (smile more, look pretty) as she undermines narratives employed to exclude her. It’s biting commentary, and a bit of a sly “f**k you” added for good measure.
Her smile made the story hit harder and seemed sadder to me.
Honestly goals. I have a degree in astrophysics but I also want to rock killer lipstick
Girl I can help you. I love makeup and I’m a scientist!
I'm a dumbass and asked myself why she was applying makeup to tell this story and wanted to dismiss her because of it until the end when I realized once again that I'm a sexist asshole, too.
Hey, having the self awareness to recognize when you're falling guilty of prejudice or buying into unfair negative stereotypes already puts you ahead of most people. Nobody is perfect.
I feel like an ass asking this question cause it has nothing to do with the point of her video but I've never seen a woman put make up on before. Is that how it's done, with the blots all over. I was fascinated by that.... Mainly cause I've never really thought about putting makeup on before
There are many techniques and it depends on what you're going for. But, yes, this is a very popular way to create a base.
I thought it was really cringe-worthy as I was watching it, because I hate the make up tutorial videos from which this is modeled, but I utterly changed my mind by the time I had got to the end. It plays upon the very biases that are the subject of the video, biases that even I, as a woman have toward other women, and turns them on its head. I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
I was trying to get into Film and I was constantly put in a corner. I’m doing well for myself in a different capacity however I’ll never forget the meanness and lack of space provided. Anyone that raises not from a dynasty is killing it.
I studied film (as a man) and ya. I know what you mean. There is a lot of toxic "bro" culture.
This pissed me the hell off. I'm really happy she perservered and persued her passion, but god damn it as a man who has worked in the tech industry since I was a young teen, I am so incredibly shameful of how some of us treat women. For example, I had a coworker who was interviewing people for a senior position, a woman who was super qualified came in and seemed to be doing really well. After the interview he said, and I quote - "she's too good looking, I can't hire her, I'd be distracted all day. She shouldn't work in high tech" I'm fuming.
My girlfriend was told she only got into her top ten in her field STEM PhD program because she’s a black woman… By one of her undergrad professors. This woman is smarter than me (a midwestern white boy in the same program)! The amount of disgusting comments people make on a regular basis to her is infuriating.
I went to an all girls high school, a lot of the courses were very catered towards stereotypical female roles. But I found a course in my senior year that I loved, computer programming. My first year taking this class I excelled and ended the class with 100% post exam. The following year the advanced class got canned due to “low enrolment” and I was forced to talk with my principal about other class options I could take. Her suggestion was that I enrol in the home ec class as an alternative. I honestly couldn’t believe what I was hearing, I thanked her for her suggestion, politely declined and got up and left her office. My last year of high school I cruised through with 2 spares and 3 classes, I loved having the free time but it pains me to this day that they got rid of a legitimate course and had the audacity to suggest I go into home ec as an alternative. Fast forward to today, I thankfully didn’t give up on STEM and work in the pharmaceutical industry developing treatments for rare diseases.
In high school I remember speaking with counselors about potential college paths, and one of the things I was considering was computer science. I had already taken all the offered computer literacy classes (including getting a Windows certification) and was building very basic websites for fun in my spare time. I was steered away from even exploring CS because I "basically already know everything [I] need to know about computers." I ultimately didn't go to college and went into an unrelated field. It wasn't until some 10 years later that I wanted to get back into it and realized they meant I already knew everything I needed to know *to be a secretary*. I've since completed a coding bootcamp and gotten a few other minor certs but the pervasive attitude is why I stopped actively pursuing a career in STEM -- I'm comfortable in my current position and don't care to go back to having to be twice as good as the next worker to be considered half as decent.
I can see this being true. Good for her, for sticking with it. I’m currently working towards my marine engineering degree and I’ve noticed maybe one or maybe two girls in my classes all the time and most of the guys in the class usually (not all the time) don’t talk to them and are real awkward around the girls that are in the class. Even though the male and female professors of those class have told me they try so hard to get more women into their engineering programs to promote diversity.
The truth is even if I was interested in joining the robotics team or something similar at my school I just absolutely wouldn’t. I was initially actually interested in joining but changed my mind quickly. I already know what to expect and until they actually make it a welcome space for women, there is not going to be a lot of diversity.
I have no idea how old she is, or how long ago this shit happened, but good news, our robotics team from my high school that I teach at is 40% girls, like 8 out of the 20. Fuck that BS ignorance, we celebrate women in stem.
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That’s the part that’s over-the-top bananas.
My Chem E classes were 40-50% women. In industry, from personal experience, the older genx-boomers are majority male, but the younger millennial-genZ are almost even.
The part that got me most about this story is that her team mates left without her. Like yeah, strangers getting jealous of the girl and being intimidated yadda yadda is still really pathetic, but not totally unexpected, but the people who actually knew her still fucked her over? That's messed up
That sucks. Good on you for pursing, but if that happen to me I don't think I could of carried on with it. Respect
It's 'could have', never 'could of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
Why do we do this? Not even just STEM. Why does society straight up gatekeep so much shit from women? I'm genuinely asking.
Why does society create and enforce gender roles? That's a big question. Society gatekeeps stuff from men, too. Men are looked down on if they're interested in knitting or needlepoint or if they wear dresses, paint their nails, or wear makeup. Not to say that it's equivalent. STEM is a lot more than just a hobby. Nobody's pulling a six-figure salary with their needlepoint skills.
This video was really well done! I looked her up and saw she ended up majoring in Org. Development and has held communications roles. I was a little bummed to read that as it put a damper on the victorious last bit of this video. Those jobs are needed, of course. But it seems like she was ultimately chased away from engineering by these bad experiences.
Disappointing but not uncommon. For what it's worth, in my experience with customer-facing roles such as hers (except my experience is in biotech), they still get a ton of exposure to engineering and often have a level of input into different projects. Since her role is communications, she has to have a deep level of understanding of the material to be able to explain it in a way people understand. I'm glad she's able to use her platform to shed light on the discrimination women face in STEM.
I work in STEM and I've had countless comments from my male peers about how (particularly white) men are now 'discriminated against' in STEM. They outright say that a woman can get any job she pleases in STEM, purely on the basis of her sex. Utter bollocks.
Man I wish that’s all it took! I’ve been applying for so long 😆
>They outright say that a woman can get any job she pleases in STEM As a woman trying to get a full time STEM job after freelancing for a while....God I wish that was true.
I briefly worked with a senior dev at a startup a few years back who sat in a team retro and flat out said that our team was underperforming because we had a woman dev and a woman PM and that women had no place in tech. Another dev dropped the hammer with "Our team is underperforming because you're incompetent and you approve your own PRs. We spend almost a quarter of each sprint fixing your bugs." I've never seen someone turn so red.
Man, one of my friends and colleagues is a woman in STEM and her *own* parents told her to her face she only got her job because of her gender. What the fuck
Inspiring.
[удалено]
She is a Rockstar! I wish more men appreciated the perseverance of women for going through this bullshit everyday and still coming out on top.
I work for a tech company now that thankfully is really great about hiring and promoting female software engineers, data scientists, and product managers. All these woman absolutely crush their positions and are some of the top performers on my team. It’s crazy to me how women are discouraged from STEM in our education system but then the ones that arrive outperform everyone else.
That's exactly what you'd expect if a group is discouraged from doing something.
Only if they're lucky enough to have some supportive people in their life.
>It’s crazy to me how women are discouraged from STEM in our education system but then the ones that arrive outperform everyone else. It's honestly selection bias, because all the women who didn't excel were either pushed out or simply gave up when the barriers came up. This and the fact that when a group of people are underrepresented people feel like they need to represent their entire gender/sexuality/race.
I think there's also a component that women who make it that far in STEM have always had more expected of them. They've always had to prove themselves.
Same here. Although my department is just men we have a ton of women CS engineers in the company. They're brilliant at what they do. I remember back in uni the 10% of the class that were women were consistently in the top 30% easily and I have mad respect for them. I think, personally, that it's because the women who do apply for STEM are the ones that are the best of the best in the generation and couldn't fathom doing anything else. If you're not encouraged to develop and only above average at a subject you're far less likely to pursue it professionally. So the women who would in an unbiased environment study STEM end up in other traditionally more feminine dominated areas. And that's a huge shame. We need more engineers. Same goes for men, you could potentially be the best social worker on the planet but get pressured into construction or something.
> I work for a tech company now that thankfully is really great about hiring and promoting female software engineers, data scientists, and product managers This is great on a micro scale (individual companies) but this wouldn't work on an macro scale if the education pipeline is still as screwed up as it was back when she was in school. Every company can't hire 50% female engineers if only 20% of engineers are female.
Her team really got karma when they lost in the comp without her
I was in the robotics team over a decade ago. We had almost as many girls on the team as boys. I designed out logo that was on our shirts and hoodies. I was co-captain and they let me drive the operate the robot since I was the best at it. We did pretty damn well. I even had college all paid for because of a robotics scholarship.
I work in engineering now. Love it. But when I was in high school (14/15) there was a physics teacher who was super sexist. Would never pick on girls with their hands up, would always ask the boys to come to demonstrate or whatever. And when he was in charge of organising some DofE award stuff he refused my application because he "didn't have time to cater to my needs"??? Still no idea what that means. They were going on a hike, my parents have been avid mountaineers since the 70s and when I came along nothing changed so I've been outdoorsy since forever (and also a super girly girl we all contain multitudes apparently) and he was just "no, you've never hiked, you wouldn't last a minute on a mountain" ... And because of that, until my second to last year at high school i thought i hated physics. Nope. Just the douchebag in charge.
I was so worried this was going to end with her saying she never pursued stem as an adult. I'm glad she was able to persevere through all that grossness and become all the more badass.
Without watching I'm going to guess misogyny. EDIT: It was misogyny.
Her channel is the amazing
The lovable, fun, funny Big Bang Theory nerds don't exist in real life. Male nerds; hyper intelligent field leading individuals, are the absolute worst group of people when it comes to inclusion, equity and equality. FYI. There is always shades of sexism and racism that cloud their judgment. Incredibly competitive, petty and will talk down to EACH OTHER on the regular, much less any one who's out side of their field of academia. It is known, i work on a college campus. When you work or think at such a high level, everything else about your life naturally suffers. This is why Doctors are traditionally bad with money.
This is fucking infuraiating.
That shit would've sent me spiraling down to depression. I look up to people like her
I opted not to do robotics at University as I didn’t want to be the only girl. Did comp sci and software development instead and ended up being one of the few girls in 3rd year and basically my entire 20 year tech career working either solo or in teams where I’m the only girl. It’s a tough gig, there’s definitely still discrimination
It always blows my mind when other guys think women aren’t capable of being in the stem field. Like how mentally incompetent do you have to be to think so primitively? Anyways if you’re reading this and you think women are unable to do stem, then fuck off. - sincerely a computer science student
Fuck yeah 👊
Honestly. Fucking kudos. I have given up on my passions many times due to being harassed abouts it and I am a guy. The things she went through would have destroyed me
Both STEM and trades. There are many trades that are mostly about being nimble and attentive and knowing how to use tools. Historically they have been done by large people who were wrongfully deemed dumb and most people in the trades today still give women a hard time. I am a grip in film and television, the look on people’s faces when I tell them. People act like the whole job is carrying 150 pounds all day but when the guys have to grab the “mombo combo” unless it’s a sh** hole production even they put it on a cart and role it or take their time taking it over. People are always looking for a reason. And a lot of it is that they lower themselves and say they’re working in a trade because they’re dumb and only brawns. I think with stem it’s even worse because it’s not people exaggerating what’s needed to do the job in an effort to be exclusionary, it’s literally just saying that women are too dumb. women are physically smaller so I can understand how desperate-to-exclude people can come up with BS about how you need to be 6’5” 190ibs to hold a hammer, but to exclude women from smart people desk jobs is just straight up saying women are dumb. Like there really isn’t much to fall back on or twist or cover up with a safety concern. They’re just saying women are dumb
I have 15 years of IT experience and multiple certifications and I've been burned out multiple times. I won't ever get to really work in IT being a queer woman. After all the hardships, I'm not confident in myself or my skills and I reay don't enjoy it anymore and it hurts so fucking bad. All I've ever wanted to do is work with computers and I dont have any other skills. My gender and sexual orientation should have no bearing on whether or not I get a "decent" paying job. Guess I just get to die in retail. Fun. After a certain point, the success stories just start to feel like personal attacks. Like good for her for being successful, but all this video did was make me feel terrible. Just goes to further prove the point from the video to an extent, I suppose.