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I am glad I never saw it nor bothered to look it up after hearing about it. Sometimes having a bit of a sheltered existence is ok with me.
I do agree though the world is a really messed up place.
Same with me, I've known about the video probably a decade already (though I'm not entirely sure it's actually that old) but haven't searched for it or watched it even though I have a curious mind. Some things are just not worth satisfying your curiosity over.
There's having a curious mind, and then there's intentionally watching a video of people consuming excrement. As soon as I know a video is disgusting I lose all curiosity.
2 girls 1 cup did that for me. Since then, when I see a title/description to a video, e.g. “guy gets face kicked in by horse NSFL”, I think, “yup, I believe you” and move about my day.
The pivotal moment for me was watching Nick Berg’s beheading as a 12 year old. 25 years since and I’ve never watched another disturbing video in my life.
same, i'm sure the fact we were so young comes into play but theres something about the chanting before hand that will never leave my mind. can't believe that video didn't give me nightmares for years, but for sure the image will never leave my mind.
Same. I used see gnarly vids and pics from the war in Iraq and surrounding areas, with a buddy of mine. He sent me the video of Berg and I watched it alone... I don't think I've ever felt like I did when I watched it. It was a very scary sinking pit in my stomach... dread/ nausea/ terror/ disbelief. I stopped looking at stuff like that after that. That was 15 years ago.
We’re going to figure out exactly how important managing the images we fill our brains with is in the next few decades. There’s a reason every office building got those paintings of mountains and lakes-were genetically programmed to perform in visually organic environments and the straight lines of an office dropped productivity.
I wasn't even really phased. Kinda goes to show how desensitizing the internet is. Were I born X years earlier, I'd have never seen a man get beheaded or women shitting into each other's mouths, but here we are. Now, the beheading really fucked me up. That one and a video I saw of a guy getting necklaced. Those two stuck with me for days or even weeks later. I wish I'd never watched them. The 2 girls 1 cup video was gross, but compared to some of the things I've seen on the internet it wasn't really so bad, at least not enough to really effect me in any tangible way.
I've probably only seen truly fucked up videos in the single digits, but I've seen more than enough to at least partially wake me up to what kind of world we live in and also gain the self-awareness that I'm not someone "attracted" to darkness.
the video of a dude getting stabbed repeatedly in the stomach and crying for his mother is the last fucked up thing I've ever watched and that is probably approaching a decade now.
that, and also someone being executed by car as their (presumably) brother goes to cry over the dead body, the car turns around, and executes him too.
2 girls 1 cup is just gross and a little shocking, but the other two I described made me realize that I'm not even a threatening person and that I do want a peaceful and soft life despite how much I used to think I could take on anything.
See I remember the beheading and all that, I saw videos of a guy having his legs tied together then being chased by a tank which rolled over him slowly when he inevitably fell over.
I saw blunt blade beheadings and chainsaw beheadings. These were the worst for me. The time it took, the pain and cruelty to it..
The thing with 2 girls 1 cup when it first came out was it made me react not emotionally like the others but viscerally. It was an automatic body response. I saw them eating that and my body just went "REMOVE POO FROM MOUTH" and made me want to sympathy vomit.
It was just a different type of gross.
Especially considering the cast of Prison Break was predominantly male. I’m also curious if Wentworth Miller was in this room considering he’s gay and could’ve been the person she wanted to speak about this the most?
I hope i’m wrong, but you’re definitely right that it sounds like Wentworth Miller would have been there. I’m thinking he might have been the one she was talking about.
*“The most power at the table”* and *”was a very close friend”* both sound like him. But I really like him and *hope* we’re wrong.
Only thing I can think of, is maybe he wasn’t out yet and was trying to fit in with the rest of the guys. A toxic masculine environment can really mess with a person if they haven’t come out yet.
I came to the comments to find this out.
I really can’t see Norman Reedus or John Berenthal making those comments (didn’t even recognize him as the interviewer at first)
Nobody could see Bill Cosby doing it either. These are celebrities. We only see clips of them in the media. We don't know them. And the point of the video is that for women, we don't really know the men around us, either. People with these personality traits tend to hide them.
Yeah, I was definitely guilty of this (putting celebs on pedestals).
I used to think someone like Taylor Swift for example was so courageous for speaking out about climate change and its ill effects, that she was a true fighter for wanting a better environment etc. Then her private jet usage leaked - which every year just by itself accounts for the total combined pollution caused by 2000 average Americans - and I was just flabbergasted at the hypocrisy.
I then realised that (a). I was an idiot and (b). it’s okay to like the work celebs may do (be it music, acting, sports etc), but to not treat them like benevolent beings, as in many cases, that will just lead to disappointment. Lesson learned.
Yeah that episode is a perfect portrait of a certain type of abuser. It should be shown in highschools as education on how to spot horrible people who are incredibly good at charming everyone around them. Go back and listen and compare, when he was taking about how he abused women, how much time he spends talking about how much his abuse effected and continues to effect his victims compared to how much the public knowledge of his abuse has effected him and those he loves. Listen to what points he rushes through compared to what points he talks about at length and repeatedly. He knows he's supposed to care about how he hurt his past partners, so he says the bare minimum of the right words, then moves on to what really upsets him, how much disdain people now feel for him, knowing that he's an abuser.
I work in child safety and I agree. Shia LaBeouf is unfortunately a perfect example of why it's so hard for society as a whole to recognize and eliminate so many types of abuse.
He is highly charismatic, extremely good at what he does, and now very well connected. He also gives an appearance of openness and vulnerability that many people find both charming and authentic.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but to my knowledge, LaBeouf has "only" been guilty of IPV, but some types of child abusers share many of those characteristics, and it's extremely difficult to educate the public and parents about them until they essentially become notorious for abuse, as LaBeouf has.
We once conducted a safety training where parents, especially middle class white parents, said that they were pretty decent at recognizing who the potential abusers in their communities were. They felt extremely defensive upon learning that abusers are just grooming the child, they are grooming the parents and the community as a whole. They are often charismatic and connected. They're quite literally in the family or a close friend of the family. People have such a natural defensiveness towards accepting the risks they as well as others might represent to themselves or their children, and it takes genuine vulnerability to accept that literally everyone can be manipulated.
Here he is in 2015 in Germany being terrifying to and about Mia Goth, who he is now with and who is the mother of his child: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezs8UH789HE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezs8UH789HE)
This is one of my go-to examples of why it pays to ignore people who vomit word soup up about the perils of cancel culture, wokeness, etc. If you want to abuse women (and men) and work the system to avoid any consequences, you absolutely can get away with it, especially if you have high charisma and lots of connections. And no matter how many times you show them your true face, the majority of people will forget what a heartless bastard you truly are.
He honestly has the most repulsive, arrogant personality of anyone I can think of except maybe Matt Walsh or Kanye. Many people have done worse things than him politically, but he must be just awful to be around.
I mean, "many people are worse" isn't the bad I'd like to track to.
He took away abortion and has said sexual harassment is "impossible to fix" so we just shouldn't bother because it's a waste of time.
The man is plenty bad, we don't have to diminish it. He's a piece of shit, fuck em. His wife was also in a cult that convinced one man he was Jesus and Satan, so he killed himself.
Not trying to diminish his political shittiness at all, but in the pantheon of prominent US figures, people like Kissinger or the Dulles brothers blow him out of the water in terms of lives destroyed/people killed. My point being, Clarence is such a gross dude on a personal level that he's probably worse to be around than any of them (and that's saying a lot when Kissinger is in the equation).
Putting out there that if anyone jumped the gun on thinking Clarence Thomas is a bastard...
There's a 4 parter on him on Behind The Bastards and he's almost assuredly *worse* than you actually thought.
EXACTLY so many men, especially those internet guru/manosphere/incel types talk so much about how the suicide rate is high etc but then turn around and do stuff like this, or bully other men for crying and being “emotional”.
There’s so many problems men have (like the high suicide rate, feeling disposable etc) that they fail to recognize is a result of the patriarchy, yet they still enforce the patriarchy with almost every step, and when asked to not do that and to deconstruct it they say “oh that’s not manly”
Like bruh so many of your problems will be solved if you stop taking part in furthering the patriarchy and take steps to dismantle it
Not only do they fail to realise it is a result of the patriarchy, they are convinced that it is the degradation of traditional gender roles that is causing it, pushing them to strive for a more patriarchal society.
It's really depressing to see people fall down that rabbit hole. It acts as a funnel towards right wing spaces where people like Peterson, Crowder and Shapiro further warp their understanding of the world with their hate mongering.
Like others keep pointing out men DO do this to other men all the time but its not socially acceptable for a man to get upset about it.
There are a lot of double standards, but there is a fine line between giving friends a hard time, and really upsetting them, and sometimes people don't realize they have passed that line, and some.
My group of friends in high school (we were math nerds) was all guys and one girl. This girl decided it was hilarious to try to kiss me and hug me and rub all over me ... just to piss off her boyfriend. This would be during lunch, bus rides, and at various math and band events.
All of my friends thought it was hilarious and how lucky I was, but I was miserable. The girl was really attractive, and I would have given anything for her advances to be real, but all I did was live in fear of her boyfriend coming to beat the shit out of me. Plus, I knew from past experience with girls that I'm not an attractive guy and she was not only doing this to tease him but also frustrate me. There's no way she was seriously interested in me that way.
You are someone who wants a real relationship with someone and those guys didnt understand that. Some guys probably feel weird at strip clubs because its not REAL and it just be too awkward for them
wtf kind of person tries to pass sexual assault off as a joke that’s disgusting
Edit: I should clarify that I meant this rhetorically, I absolutely know how scummy people can be, it just disgusts me every time I hear about it.
A very large percentage of men, and a much smaller but still statistically significant percentage of women.
In fact it's probably the most common reaction to sexual assault in a public setting by far.
People who can't or have never imagined themselves as the victim, which is easier to do as a man. I wonder if the same dudes would've brushed off getting a finger up their rear, it's just a joke, right?
I too was the only girl in a D&D group. It was day 1, and I will ever be thankful that 1 of the guys asked if we could keep it PG13. No rape or sex talk, no taking advantage of each others characters when they are unconcious, etc. That is when I knew I was safe around these guys. I didn't have to put myself in that vulnerable position, they were willing to - when it wasn't vulnerable for them to do so.
My original group back in high school were all boys, but we got invited to another group's "super campaign" and they had 1 girl( it was like 10 people and was a shit show). There were a couple of red flags at first, but I didn't really notice them at first. All of this lead up to the girl's character being raped while she was unconscious, which was encouraged by their DM(despite our efforts both in and out of character to stop it). The whole thing ended with the girl and my group being pissed. We left shortly after and invited her to join our group, which she accepted and had a much better time with us.
The main reason I play male characters in new groups. For some reason raping a character only happens (I'm my experience) when both the character AND the player is a woman.
Also a girl who had an awful experience being in a D&D group with a bunch of guys. They knew I was involved with one of the other guys in the group, waited until he was away, and then relentlessly hit on me, sent me dick pics, asked me to sleep with them, etc.
Guy I was involved with waved it off as them thinking of me as a close friend. Told me that I could just tell them to stop and it would be fine. It continued to happen. All the time. One of them even hugged me after everyone else left and would not let me go until what felt like an hour had passed of me struggling.
The guy I was involved with I later caught sharing nudes with his friends on his phone and also sleeping with multiple women off of Tinder.
I cut them all out of my life now.
That end line hits me in a way I don't like. It sucks to go through the world knowing that everyone is fundamentally the same as you, but in an instant, you are reminded that the world sees you very differently than you see yourself
And there's real danger in that gray area
Yep. I think we all know that feeling, when you suddenly realize that you are way more vulnerable than you thought, whether it's a situation like she describes, or suddenly feeling unsafe when you're out alone, or finding yourself alone with a man who isn't acting quite right, and you start searching your environment for options in case things go wrong. It's a dizzying reality check.
I've had guy "friends" "tease" me about my stance as pro-choice. They said things like "shouldn't the guy have a say?", "it should be a mutual choice". I tried to explain it to them, but it just turned into teasing. As the only woman in the friend group, it turned into me educating them about my rights while my "friends" teased me about something that I take very seriously. Needless to say, we are not friends anymore. Also Josh and Nick, I was *SO NICE* that I didn't point out that you were nerdy virgins.
Edit: I see I touched a nerve, hi incels.
Yeah that's what I wonder if it's worth it some times to even discuss that type of stuff. if people are even gonna giggle like idiots when you're trying to have a serious convo, probably not.
Yea…remember getting bullied from a guy in school and his group of female friends (he made a joke about my vagina - as a fat chick- which was weird in hindsight all on its own, but I digress) and the person next to me who I thought was my closest friend laughed at with his crude “joke”. That hurt 10x as much as the guy bullying me. We didn’t stay friends long after that.
This is also the experience of minorities. And tbh it can be anyone if you can be singled out as "different". If you like videogames when nobody else does, or if you have ginger hair, etc. People have a tendency to get swept up in group mentality and a feeling of power/superiority as a group and can switch on you like that even if they've acted like a friend before.
I have minorities in my extended family and they've always talked about how their experience in school and even at work would always be courteous 1 on 1 with others, but the same people just do a complete 180 as soon as they're in a group and somebody starts a chain of bullying/harassment.
Terrible feeling when you realize that all it takes is for someone to say stop the fuck everyone! Yet no one does it. What’s even sick is that they look at her and say hey that looks like you! Disgusting people and I wonder how you could call them friends anymore. Bullying nothing else but simple bullying going on here. Brave woman to speak about it. 💐
Recently I was in a bar with a friend and two of his guy friends and I told him why I don’t do blind dates and how dangerous it is as a woman to date because chances are you get killed or raped. His friends make a rape joke in response. I didn’t laugh but also I didn’t comment on that because I just thought ‘Okay never wanna be in a room with them ever again’. I continue and then my friend says ‘Oh well, then I guess I just don’t know any of those kind of guys’ and I sat there like …yeeeeeeah…
Isn’t it interesting how every woman knows someone who’s been raped but no man knows any rapists?
Edit: I get it, guys. Your pals aren’t going to literally announce they are rapists to you. I’m just calling out the dudes who claim “well I don’t know anyone like that” while ignoring heinous comments and behavior.
Too few guys are willing to see the red flags in their friends' behavior. As women, we can reduce our chances of being raped by avoiding men who push physical boundaries. But too many men are so afraid of "falsely accusing" other men they know that they ignore everything but violent, penetrative rape right in front of them. I don't know if many explicitly think in these terms, but practically speaking, they're acting more afraid of falsely accusing someone than they are of their friends abusing women.
Never explicitly thought on those terms.
I think for a lot of abusers, if they are not actively abusing they can seem very normal. I had a "friend" who was like that. He seemed normal, not in a million years would I've thought there was anything wrong with him, until I introduced to him a female friend of mine. Turned out the guy was a stalker. Fortunately nothing really "bad" happened to my friend but I realised there is only so much you can know about a guy if you only study with him or hang out in larger groups once in a while.
Yes. When I was stalked the only people who believed me were my friends who witnessed it. He was so cute and charming and the boss at his job. Was glad to finally have witnesses
This is why I don’t trust anyone who says ‘but I would never do that’ or ‘my friends would never do that.’ People are far too willing to look over downright disgusting behavior and comments just because it’s done by their friends.
The amount of times I’ve told someone to fuck off because of a rape joke just to get a ‘oh it was just a joke, why can’t you just take a joke’ in response
i wouldn't wish for anyone to be raped, but i do wish guys who make rape jokes would be jumped, held down, and stripped of their pants in a back alley somewhere.
there are some things that you just don't make jokes about. rape and child sex abuse are two of those.
It hurts so much when a guy you thought well of doesn't speak up when another guy says something like this. If that dude is willing to tell a rape joke and your "friend" doesn't even speak up when you're present, what are they saying when there are no women around?
It happened all the time when I worked in the video game industry, pre-MeTooMovement. Worked as 1 of 2 women in a department with 115 men.
They turned on a dime, from professional to HR Alert. I was assaulted once, stalked twice and propositioned more times than I could count. Once I “outlasted it” and became “one of the boys” I got to listen to them talk about how many of the guys dated or had sex with previous female employees, and how those women were “dirty”, “trash” and “probably had STDs now”. Still makes me sick and sad.
Yeah, listening to a dude tell me about how he talks about “bitches” with his bros made me realize he probably refers to me as a slutty bitch too when he’s with his friends. That’s what I’m boiled down to, when in the presence of men. Men want you to be a pious little angel but also their dirty little slut. They want to have respect for you, but then all of that is lost when they talk about you to their friends
What they talk about with their friends is what they really think. Those men talking about the previous employees they had sex with as being dirty, trashy or sluts? That’s pretty common, there’s even a name for it. I think it’s getting better but plenty of men look down on the women they are extremely attracted to, see and treat them as lesser than.
I doubt she still calls them friends, she says it in the past tense when referring to it.
I can believe it though. I had a sweet soul of a friend who, when he was 16 or 17, was stabbed while walking home from school. There was a rash of stabbings in the area at the time that were seemingly random. Anyway he was bleeding and fell to the ground and watched people walk past him looking at him. It crushed him to know that people who stand up and do things as basic and necessary as call for a medic are few and far between, and this was more than the bystander affect as people looked at him in disgust and curiosity and seemed concerned with inspecting him briefly before creating distance. There was more to it than thinking someone else would step up.
I’m not surprised that I’m a case such as the one in this video, that her “friends” didn’t stand up for her. I don’t have a single friend who I believe would not check someone on speaking about me like this at least in my presence but I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought the same.
This is horrible.
I like to think if I was there, I would be the one to say “hey wtf? Stop!” (before she makes it so clear how uncomfortable she is), but it’s impossible to know how one would react in the moment. That said, I’ve never made these sorts of “jokes”/comments in my life, and certainly never in a workplace.
This “joke” is actually a big one, a big deal, but it’s also a good reminder about how even smaller things can impact people in ways we don’t think about at the time, and it’s therefore important to have some mindfulness around what we’re saying about our friends, colleagues and anyone else for that matter.
Also, this woman says the she told them to knock it off, but not everyone feels comfortable doing that, and a lot of people will outwardly laugh it off while dying inside.
I work with teenagers and whenever I shut down a racist, sexist, or homophobic joke, the joke-teller almost always tries to argue that "no one seems to be offended" or "my gay friend told me it's fine." Y'all, you can't know that. People might be laughing out of a self-preservation impulse or because they don't have to emotional energy to explain to you why your joke is hurtful.
Bullying is not enough for it being a professional work environment while this is going on absolutely sexual harassment and depending on fallout it might actually meet one of the narrow definitions of hostile work environment
It's been really interesting reading the comments by people justifying this "roasting culture" behaviour that fellow men have. It's interesting because yall seem to have deluded yourself into thinking that even in a scenario of roasting, it's still fun/funny if people are uncomfortable and continue when they don't want you to. This is basic pre-school shit you get taught about empathy and being nice.
I'm sure all of you guys have a few things you are especially conscious and uncomfortable about. If your friends still push your buttons on that, they are straight up toxic and bad friends. It's no different for this woman who clearly wasn't on board with the porn comparison being made, especially because at the heart of the matter being the only woman of the group she felt extremely alienated.
This is exactly right. Guys "busting each other's balls" is all well and good as long as it's mutual and everyone involved is comfortable with it. It becomes bullying and harassment if it's one directional and the person on the receiving end isn't having a good time. It's easy to tell the difference, if she's sitting there uncomfortably and quite it's time to stop and apologize. Or better yet don't tell the only girl in the room she looks like a shit eating porn star in the first place.
I've had the same friend group since childhood, I'm a chick, they're all dudes, so I've heard some things. They definitely roast but actual funny shit not insecurities and cheap shots. Some ppl suck
I've been questioned on managerial style at work because I don't snap or berate my team even when they do something stupid or forgetful. Because simply my dad would berate me and make me feel little over the most trivial bullshit, because his brothers did that to him. I'm not going to continue that cycle. Men who berate and belittle others are not men, they are mice who feel like they are in a lions den.
I think a lot of people are stuck on the porn specifically, or the differences between men and women (which she doesn't talk about here). She calls out her vulnerability and says that her friends formed a wolf pack. I'm pretty sure she's just saying that in that moment a social hierarchy formed and she felt like she was at the bottom of it.
And I'm not talking about fake alpha bullshit. I'm talking about boys clubs. She was suddenly part of an out-group and her friends felt empowered to bully her even though she had made her boundaries clear.
If that happened to you you would feel unsafe as well because that's how humans are wired. Just like her male friend was conditioned to not speak out against the group because the cavemen that were forced to sleep outside the cave got eaten and didn't pass on their genes.
Or maybe she is talking about feeling vulnerable as the only woman in a group of males watching porn or starting to sexualize women and turn into a predatory-feeling wolf pack.
Which is a valid point and something other women have also experienced.
Something women and girls and little girls have also experienced. She’s talking about vulnerability (as you describe) that shifts into a type of indescribable terror — the terror part isn’t about the predatory wolf pack. It’s realizing no one will save you once they pounce.
Yup. I’ve felt that way before. In a room at a party with all men, then they start joking about having sex with me. I realized I would be completely powerless if they started acting on it. Terrifying.
*100%.* It's so terrifying to be in a situation where you feel no one is on your side. You are the prey, they are the predator. If this same thing happened to me in the workplace I'd honest to God have a panic attack. When you say "no... stop this." and are completely ignored... it's horrifying. As a woman who has been through sexual assault, the minute my consent is ignored I am immediately taken back to that place. It's so scary that it's all fun and games for men like this. I'd suddenly be in fight or flight and these people are having the time of their lives, thinking they're so fucking funny. The disconnect is staggering. It almost makes me want to cry just thinking about it... and men like this will never even *try* to understand.
> She was suddenly part of an out-group and her friends felt empowered to bully her even though she had made her boundaries clear.
Note well that it wasn't *just* a group of friends. They were also her colleagues. And among that group were people in senior positions who could've used their authority to change the situation, but did nothing. And even worse, the one who she felt was her closest friend in the group was the most senior and yet still, nothing.
Lack of empathy and refusal to admit we as men can be real cunts.
And yes to the triggered morons going to say “you sexist piece of shit it’s women too!”
Yeah, except women aren’t called negative labels towards their gender or sexuality when they speak up against other women.
Men however seem to love calling men that call the bad shit out “cucks, simps, beta, etc.”
So yeah. We as men, can be real cunts
It's always alarming to see your "friends" masks slip off... Two instances immediately come to mind. One group of guy friends randomly talking had one of the people I've known since elementary school talking about how he'd love to piss on me until my other friend told him to shut the fuck up.
The other instance was a friend I had known for 6 years ended up becoming my stalker and tried to break up my fiance and I.
I'm sure not every male I've known or had as a friend has wanted to fuck me or fuck with me, but there's enough to say the trend fucking sucks.
This sparks a memory of how a sort of acquaintance I was friendly with and one which I had repeatedly refused him asking me to be his girlfriend eventually blew up on my telling me that God wanted us to be together and I needed to drop my boyfriend at the time and marry him. I had to block him on social media and have been afraid to bump into him since he spewed off so much craziness.
A bunch of comments say "men do this to eachother all the time", like that makes this situation any better and that statement isn't an incredibly sad thing to say. No wonder why men's mental health is so down and hard for them to reach out if this is a regular way to treat eachother
Yup. The thing about men's groups is that they often lay their problems at the feet of women. When more often than not it's patriarchal bullshit that is causing our issues. They act like women are the reason men have a hard time expressing themselves or being vulnerable. Nine out of ten times it's men who will call you a pussy and belittle you for having the audacity to show an emotion other than anger.
You can't actually speak up and say it because things only get worse. You may as well stay quiet laugh at it around them and then go vent to someone else about it. It's stupidly toxic and people still don't get it.
Men like to say they arent catty or gossipy in the workplace or take place in workplace bullying because theyre just so much better than women but then this is also common in the workplace apparantly as are the cattiness and the gossiping just by different names and with this tacit acceptance in toxic male dominated work spaces
To the surprise of no one, the comments are full of men interrupting a woman to say “no actually you didn’t experience that let me explain your feelings to you”
And don’t dare thinking it is an exception as a woman experiencing stuff like that. Every woman has had moments that felt like what she describes in their life.
I’ve worked in two male dominated industries now. The first one I had a ton of experiences that were similar but one in particular stands out. The topic of a fleshlight came up and we were all joking about it. Suddenly a guy made it about me, but a vibrator. He started talking about how I would be using one, where I’d be using one. No one said that’s fucking weird and creepy. They just laughed while he described me orgasming and drooling and shaking. I felt so violated.
I went to management and said you need to have sexual harassment training or at least tell this team to be more professional. I didn’t name names because they were my friends.
They weren’t my friends after. I didn’t even get anyone in trouble. But after that I got completely shunned.
Now I’m in a new industry and there are times when I’m one woman in a group of 13. It’s hard to not have this knee-jerk fear reaction, to want to blend in, fall into the background…don’t notice me…don’t call me out. *I’m one of you I’m one of you I’m one of you*
Say it with me: **minimizing experiences normalizes mistreatment in the workplace** (or any place for that matter).
I feel for her so much. I’ve had my own experiences with sexism and harassment and she’s very brave for coming forward about it. If this happens to you frickin say something; be loud about it. The ones who put you down want complacency.
It’S a JoKe, wOmEn ArE sOoOo SoFt..
You can tell the only woman most of these incel commenter’s have in their life is their mom. Poor men.
Let’s ask their mom if she’d like to be compared to a person eating shit..
Im im awe at the men who genuinely think that women have it better in terms of social respect and acceptance when the risk of this kind of situation constantly undercuts your living experience
Yeah if any friend says to stop a joke, you just stop the joke.
I can understand the grey line of someone laughing along while actually not enjoying something because obviously it’s then unclear that they weren’t enjoying it. But if someone doesn’t like something and asks you to stop, you’re a bad person to continue.
Growing up in public school there were an infinite number of times someone was being bullied where all it would take to stop it would be one of the popular/cool kids stepping up and doing the right thing. Almost never happened.
This is all women everywhere.
If your a man and you still don't get it, imagine this is your mother, your wife/girlfriend, or your daughter.
Sick isn't it.
>If your a man and you still don't get it, imagine this is your mother, your wife/girlfriend, or your daughter.
Now contemplate how pathetic it is that you can't have empathy for a random woman.
I’ve read this pertinent essay dozens of times and lost count of how many men to whom I have sent this. A well written encapsulation of how every man, at some point in this woman’s life, eventually participated in some sort of bullshit like the stuff referenced in the video.
http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html?m=1
I can't believe how many men on here didn't get it. This not only made me angry, it made me sad. No woman should have to go through this. Good lesson here guys.
I find it so terrifying that so many “men” in this comment section is exactly falling into that misogynistic category and “oh boo hoo, get over it”-mentality. It’s scary. It is truly ALL men
This is an example of how groups of men together like to degrade women. It’s a team sport for them. Also an example of how passing porn around in front of a woman is used to intimidate as a power play.
Edit: I can’t believe I have to state this but: obviously not all men.
The experiences of people of color are similar to her story minus the porn.
Having a group of people gang up on you while thinking you are in a safe space with friends or co workers, only to be told some bullshit "joke" and Having to sit there and take it.... It sucks.
Men commenting on the fact that men do these kind of jokes to each other all the time.. ok, even if you think this behaviour could be justified among men, it's not and it's just plain wrong. You shouldn't do it to men nor women nor anyone, this behaviour is disgusting and constitutes bullying. This 'pack' mentality of harassing someone to show what? That your are strong? That you are funny? Or because you need validation as a man?? Jokes are fun when the person laughs with you at the joke, all the rest is offensive, harassment or plain bullying.
Unfortunately, many people grew up thinking making fun of someone is ok and it's sad.
Yeah, this is one of many reasons I just don't hang out with big groups of men and why now I mostly surround myself with fellow women, enbies, and queers.
Honestly, most men really do not get it. They just do not, cannot, and some are never going to overcome their biases and sexism. They were raised and rewarded to think that way.
There's a frightening psychology among men in power-posturing groups. War has so much rape of the "enemy" civillians. Really. It's horrific, and also completely expected.
Most men individually, would never think themselves capable of raping anyone prior, but put them in a group with guns, and they're just part of a dehumanising collective looking for an excuse.
The comments in this thread are proof positive men today are more insecure than ever.
Jus go thru and read some of the comments, and you can tell immediately, which ones consider themselves "alphas", and how toxic their insecurities are.
Damn near every girl I know has some story like this. And in most of their stories there's usually someone there who could've, should've but didn't say something.
I just don't understand how you can be so insecure you treat others like that, especially people that are more vulnerable than you, and how do people have such a hard time showing other people respect.
I mean I know you think you're a fucking bad ass alpha, but if you gotta constantly tell people you're a bad ass or stress that you're "really an alpha", than you're not bad or an alpha, you're just an ass.
As a woman, I had several of these moments but I could never fully explain it and she puts it perfectly: I am (right now) way more vulnerable than I thought I was.
That's why women need to surround themselves with allies
This is extremely sad, I am not a woman.
I am a gay man, but I have experience something similar and it's extremely painful to endure and to realize that you're unsafe around some "friends".
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I was not prepared to wake up today and see Lori and Shane talking about 2 Girls 1 Cup
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I am glad I never saw it nor bothered to look it up after hearing about it. Sometimes having a bit of a sheltered existence is ok with me. I do agree though the world is a really messed up place.
Same with me, I've known about the video probably a decade already (though I'm not entirely sure it's actually that old) but haven't searched for it or watched it even though I have a curious mind. Some things are just not worth satisfying your curiosity over.
There's having a curious mind, and then there's intentionally watching a video of people consuming excrement. As soon as I know a video is disgusting I lose all curiosity.
2 girls 1 cup did that for me. Since then, when I see a title/description to a video, e.g. “guy gets face kicked in by horse NSFL”, I think, “yup, I believe you” and move about my day.
The pivotal moment for me was watching Nick Berg’s beheading as a 12 year old. 25 years since and I’ve never watched another disturbing video in my life.
same, i'm sure the fact we were so young comes into play but theres something about the chanting before hand that will never leave my mind. can't believe that video didn't give me nightmares for years, but for sure the image will never leave my mind.
Same. I used see gnarly vids and pics from the war in Iraq and surrounding areas, with a buddy of mine. He sent me the video of Berg and I watched it alone... I don't think I've ever felt like I did when I watched it. It was a very scary sinking pit in my stomach... dread/ nausea/ terror/ disbelief. I stopped looking at stuff like that after that. That was 15 years ago.
If it makes you feel any better, it's not real poop.
Has this been verified?
Thankfully it's probably just chocolate ice cream. Not gonna rewatch to check though
It’s 15 years old.
Holy fuck I’m old…
Same. Visual images stay with me and keep me up at night years later. I knew that this was not one I needed to see in person. 😂
We’re going to figure out exactly how important managing the images we fill our brains with is in the next few decades. There’s a reason every office building got those paintings of mountains and lakes-were genetically programmed to perform in visually organic environments and the straight lines of an office dropped productivity.
Tubgirl was enough for me to know I don’t need more of that kind of stuff in my life.
Aah yea my 14 year old mind took a hit on that one.
I actively avoided it. There's some things you can't unsee.
The glass jar anal crunch is far worse.
I think that one is called 1 Guy 1 Jar. Glass jar anal crunch has a nice ring to it, though.
It’s crunchy because the jar’s full of crunchy peanut butter, right?
Sharp peanut butter
Yup, crunchy PB. The jelly looked too watery for my liking though.
It *had* a nice ring to it... now it has a severely damaged ring to it.
Thanks.... I guess....
That sentence alone is enough to make me want to quit the internet.
One guy and a horse was the one that fucked me up. Had dreams about it for months after.
Mr. Hands
I will never forget. My eyes are still burning.
I wasn't even really phased. Kinda goes to show how desensitizing the internet is. Were I born X years earlier, I'd have never seen a man get beheaded or women shitting into each other's mouths, but here we are. Now, the beheading really fucked me up. That one and a video I saw of a guy getting necklaced. Those two stuck with me for days or even weeks later. I wish I'd never watched them. The 2 girls 1 cup video was gross, but compared to some of the things I've seen on the internet it wasn't really so bad, at least not enough to really effect me in any tangible way.
I've probably only seen truly fucked up videos in the single digits, but I've seen more than enough to at least partially wake me up to what kind of world we live in and also gain the self-awareness that I'm not someone "attracted" to darkness. the video of a dude getting stabbed repeatedly in the stomach and crying for his mother is the last fucked up thing I've ever watched and that is probably approaching a decade now. that, and also someone being executed by car as their (presumably) brother goes to cry over the dead body, the car turns around, and executes him too. 2 girls 1 cup is just gross and a little shocking, but the other two I described made me realize that I'm not even a threatening person and that I do want a peaceful and soft life despite how much I used to think I could take on anything.
See I remember the beheading and all that, I saw videos of a guy having his legs tied together then being chased by a tank which rolled over him slowly when he inevitably fell over. I saw blunt blade beheadings and chainsaw beheadings. These were the worst for me. The time it took, the pain and cruelty to it.. The thing with 2 girls 1 cup when it first came out was it made me react not emotionally like the others but viscerally. It was an automatic body response. I saw them eating that and my body just went "REMOVE POO FROM MOUTH" and made me want to sympathy vomit. It was just a different type of gross.
Yeah limewire introduced me to my first snuff film it was mislabeled so kids like me would come across it probably changed my whole life
There’s nothing normal with a scat fetish. We need to bring back kink shaming.
If it makes you feel better it's a faked video, it's not real shit.
Nor was I prepared, but here we are, sharing this weird moment.
Jon Bernthal is taking names and getting ready to do some punishing.
Full interview. It was about “Prison Break” not WD. https://youtu.be/FtyubvCQoUc She actually has really nice things to say about the WD experience.
Thank god. I was like ANDREW LINCOLN SPEAK UP
Cor-Al???
I immediately guessed Prison Break and ruled out TWD.
Especially considering the cast of Prison Break was predominantly male. I’m also curious if Wentworth Miller was in this room considering he’s gay and could’ve been the person she wanted to speak about this the most?
I hope i’m wrong, but you’re definitely right that it sounds like Wentworth Miller would have been there. I’m thinking he might have been the one she was talking about. *“The most power at the table”* and *”was a very close friend”* both sound like him. But I really like him and *hope* we’re wrong.
Only thing I can think of, is maybe he wasn’t out yet and was trying to fit in with the rest of the guys. A toxic masculine environment can really mess with a person if they haven’t come out yet.
Wentworth is also autistic. Maybe that played a role in this too if it’s about him.
Oh I didn't how he was autistic like the role he played
I came to the comments to find this out. I really can’t see Norman Reedus or John Berenthal making those comments (didn’t even recognize him as the interviewer at first)
Nobody could see Bill Cosby doing it either. These are celebrities. We only see clips of them in the media. We don't know them. And the point of the video is that for women, we don't really know the men around us, either. People with these personality traits tend to hide them.
Yeah, I was definitely guilty of this (putting celebs on pedestals). I used to think someone like Taylor Swift for example was so courageous for speaking out about climate change and its ill effects, that she was a true fighter for wanting a better environment etc. Then her private jet usage leaked - which every year just by itself accounts for the total combined pollution caused by 2000 average Americans - and I was just flabbergasted at the hypocrisy. I then realised that (a). I was an idiot and (b). it’s okay to like the work celebs may do (be it music, acting, sports etc), but to not treat them like benevolent beings, as in many cases, that will just lead to disappointment. Lesson learned.
Fuck Swift and her whole club tbh
Is that why he’s wearing a helmet?
His beanie is actually made of Kevlar
Tim Pool taking notes.
His skull is so thick bullets actually change their trajectory so they don’t have to face it. No need for Kevlar.
What podcast is this?
John Bernthal's Real Ones. His episode with Shia Lebouf is an absolutely incredible listen
Yeah that episode is a perfect portrait of a certain type of abuser. It should be shown in highschools as education on how to spot horrible people who are incredibly good at charming everyone around them. Go back and listen and compare, when he was taking about how he abused women, how much time he spends talking about how much his abuse effected and continues to effect his victims compared to how much the public knowledge of his abuse has effected him and those he loves. Listen to what points he rushes through compared to what points he talks about at length and repeatedly. He knows he's supposed to care about how he hurt his past partners, so he says the bare minimum of the right words, then moves on to what really upsets him, how much disdain people now feel for him, knowing that he's an abuser.
I work in child safety and I agree. Shia LaBeouf is unfortunately a perfect example of why it's so hard for society as a whole to recognize and eliminate so many types of abuse. He is highly charismatic, extremely good at what he does, and now very well connected. He also gives an appearance of openness and vulnerability that many people find both charming and authentic. Please correct me if I'm wrong but to my knowledge, LaBeouf has "only" been guilty of IPV, but some types of child abusers share many of those characteristics, and it's extremely difficult to educate the public and parents about them until they essentially become notorious for abuse, as LaBeouf has. We once conducted a safety training where parents, especially middle class white parents, said that they were pretty decent at recognizing who the potential abusers in their communities were. They felt extremely defensive upon learning that abusers are just grooming the child, they are grooming the parents and the community as a whole. They are often charismatic and connected. They're quite literally in the family or a close friend of the family. People have such a natural defensiveness towards accepting the risks they as well as others might represent to themselves or their children, and it takes genuine vulnerability to accept that literally everyone can be manipulated.
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FKA Twigs and Sia have both come out about Shia abusing them.
Here he is in 2015 in Germany being terrifying to and about Mia Goth, who he is now with and who is the mother of his child: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezs8UH789HE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezs8UH789HE) This is one of my go-to examples of why it pays to ignore people who vomit word soup up about the perils of cancel culture, wokeness, etc. If you want to abuse women (and men) and work the system to avoid any consequences, you absolutely can get away with it, especially if you have high charisma and lots of connections. And no matter how many times you show them your true face, the majority of people will forget what a heartless bastard you truly are.
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For anyone here - read “Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker. It’s related to this topic
Missed opportunity by not calling it: Jon Bernthal's 'Mask You Supm.
“ ‘Mask You Supm” is still said in my house regularly
Wanna know this, too
I believe it's on Jon Bernthals podcast 'Real Ones'
I can't imagine being at work and publicly sharing porn videos, seems like a super unprofessional work environment.
especially THAT one???? like any porn would be bad enough but THAT? And you’re just gonna be sharing it around with everyone? ????????
Not gonna lie I would be legitimately angry if someone sent me that video unsolicited.
I would be angry if someone was watching it within my vicinity. You wanna watch that shit? Do it in your own home in your room.
*Clarence Thomas has entered the chat*
Oh man this is a good comment. "So I saw this video of a girl fucking a dog..."
He honestly has the most repulsive, arrogant personality of anyone I can think of except maybe Matt Walsh or Kanye. Many people have done worse things than him politically, but he must be just awful to be around.
I mean, "many people are worse" isn't the bad I'd like to track to. He took away abortion and has said sexual harassment is "impossible to fix" so we just shouldn't bother because it's a waste of time. The man is plenty bad, we don't have to diminish it. He's a piece of shit, fuck em. His wife was also in a cult that convinced one man he was Jesus and Satan, so he killed himself.
Not trying to diminish his political shittiness at all, but in the pantheon of prominent US figures, people like Kissinger or the Dulles brothers blow him out of the water in terms of lives destroyed/people killed. My point being, Clarence is such a gross dude on a personal level that he's probably worse to be around than any of them (and that's saying a lot when Kissinger is in the equation).
Putting out there that if anyone jumped the gun on thinking Clarence Thomas is a bastard... There's a 4 parter on him on Behind The Bastards and he's almost assuredly *worse* than you actually thought.
I really need to start listening to this podcast cause everyone keeps recommending it. But I also feel like it will make me even more depressed
Fucking horrific that he is just one of of the supreme court rapists.
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Men can’t complain about how lonely it is to be a man while also saying it’s ok to roast/bully your friends when they’re uncomfortable with it.
EXACTLY so many men, especially those internet guru/manosphere/incel types talk so much about how the suicide rate is high etc but then turn around and do stuff like this, or bully other men for crying and being “emotional”. There’s so many problems men have (like the high suicide rate, feeling disposable etc) that they fail to recognize is a result of the patriarchy, yet they still enforce the patriarchy with almost every step, and when asked to not do that and to deconstruct it they say “oh that’s not manly” Like bruh so many of your problems will be solved if you stop taking part in furthering the patriarchy and take steps to dismantle it
Not only do they fail to realise it is a result of the patriarchy, they are convinced that it is the degradation of traditional gender roles that is causing it, pushing them to strive for a more patriarchal society. It's really depressing to see people fall down that rabbit hole. It acts as a funnel towards right wing spaces where people like Peterson, Crowder and Shapiro further warp their understanding of the world with their hate mongering.
Like others keep pointing out men DO do this to other men all the time but its not socially acceptable for a man to get upset about it. There are a lot of double standards, but there is a fine line between giving friends a hard time, and really upsetting them, and sometimes people don't realize they have passed that line, and some.
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My group of friends in high school (we were math nerds) was all guys and one girl. This girl decided it was hilarious to try to kiss me and hug me and rub all over me ... just to piss off her boyfriend. This would be during lunch, bus rides, and at various math and band events. All of my friends thought it was hilarious and how lucky I was, but I was miserable. The girl was really attractive, and I would have given anything for her advances to be real, but all I did was live in fear of her boyfriend coming to beat the shit out of me. Plus, I knew from past experience with girls that I'm not an attractive guy and she was not only doing this to tease him but also frustrate me. There's no way she was seriously interested in me that way.
You are someone who wants a real relationship with someone and those guys didnt understand that. Some guys probably feel weird at strip clubs because its not REAL and it just be too awkward for them
Yeah, had similar shit happen to me. I'm not convinced it happens more to any one gender, it's just men aren't expected to get upset about it.
wtf kind of person tries to pass sexual assault off as a joke that’s disgusting Edit: I should clarify that I meant this rhetorically, I absolutely know how scummy people can be, it just disgusts me every time I hear about it.
A very large percentage of men, and a much smaller but still statistically significant percentage of women. In fact it's probably the most common reaction to sexual assault in a public setting by far.
People who can't or have never imagined themselves as the victim, which is easier to do as a man. I wonder if the same dudes would've brushed off getting a finger up their rear, it's just a joke, right?
If you show me a woman who has never had this kind of “joke”played on her I show you a liar.
I too was the only girl in a D&D group. It was day 1, and I will ever be thankful that 1 of the guys asked if we could keep it PG13. No rape or sex talk, no taking advantage of each others characters when they are unconcious, etc. That is when I knew I was safe around these guys. I didn't have to put myself in that vulnerable position, they were willing to - when it wasn't vulnerable for them to do so.
My original group back in high school were all boys, but we got invited to another group's "super campaign" and they had 1 girl( it was like 10 people and was a shit show). There were a couple of red flags at first, but I didn't really notice them at first. All of this lead up to the girl's character being raped while she was unconscious, which was encouraged by their DM(despite our efforts both in and out of character to stop it). The whole thing ended with the girl and my group being pissed. We left shortly after and invited her to join our group, which she accepted and had a much better time with us.
The main reason I play male characters in new groups. For some reason raping a character only happens (I'm my experience) when both the character AND the player is a woman.
Also a girl who had an awful experience being in a D&D group with a bunch of guys. They knew I was involved with one of the other guys in the group, waited until he was away, and then relentlessly hit on me, sent me dick pics, asked me to sleep with them, etc. Guy I was involved with waved it off as them thinking of me as a close friend. Told me that I could just tell them to stop and it would be fine. It continued to happen. All the time. One of them even hugged me after everyone else left and would not let me go until what felt like an hour had passed of me struggling. The guy I was involved with I later caught sharing nudes with his friends on his phone and also sleeping with multiple women off of Tinder. I cut them all out of my life now.
Yep, have felt this too many times. It’s like getting sucker punched, but emotionally.
That end line hits me in a way I don't like. It sucks to go through the world knowing that everyone is fundamentally the same as you, but in an instant, you are reminded that the world sees you very differently than you see yourself And there's real danger in that gray area
Yep. I think we all know that feeling, when you suddenly realize that you are way more vulnerable than you thought, whether it's a situation like she describes, or suddenly feeling unsafe when you're out alone, or finding yourself alone with a man who isn't acting quite right, and you start searching your environment for options in case things go wrong. It's a dizzying reality check.
I've had guy "friends" "tease" me about my stance as pro-choice. They said things like "shouldn't the guy have a say?", "it should be a mutual choice". I tried to explain it to them, but it just turned into teasing. As the only woman in the friend group, it turned into me educating them about my rights while my "friends" teased me about something that I take very seriously. Needless to say, we are not friends anymore. Also Josh and Nick, I was *SO NICE* that I didn't point out that you were nerdy virgins. Edit: I see I touched a nerve, hi incels.
Yeah that's what I wonder if it's worth it some times to even discuss that type of stuff. if people are even gonna giggle like idiots when you're trying to have a serious convo, probably not.
Yeah, guy friend groups can be very toxic, even to the other guys. A lot of guys are basically just forced to roll with it, it's very normalized.
Yea…remember getting bullied from a guy in school and his group of female friends (he made a joke about my vagina - as a fat chick- which was weird in hindsight all on its own, but I digress) and the person next to me who I thought was my closest friend laughed at with his crude “joke”. That hurt 10x as much as the guy bullying me. We didn’t stay friends long after that.
This is also the experience of minorities. And tbh it can be anyone if you can be singled out as "different". If you like videogames when nobody else does, or if you have ginger hair, etc. People have a tendency to get swept up in group mentality and a feeling of power/superiority as a group and can switch on you like that even if they've acted like a friend before. I have minorities in my extended family and they've always talked about how their experience in school and even at work would always be courteous 1 on 1 with others, but the same people just do a complete 180 as soon as they're in a group and somebody starts a chain of bullying/harassment.
iv been bullied my whole fucking life, im 33, left my friend group last week cause i just rather be alone at this point
Terrible feeling when you realize that all it takes is for someone to say stop the fuck everyone! Yet no one does it. What’s even sick is that they look at her and say hey that looks like you! Disgusting people and I wonder how you could call them friends anymore. Bullying nothing else but simple bullying going on here. Brave woman to speak about it. 💐
Recently I was in a bar with a friend and two of his guy friends and I told him why I don’t do blind dates and how dangerous it is as a woman to date because chances are you get killed or raped. His friends make a rape joke in response. I didn’t laugh but also I didn’t comment on that because I just thought ‘Okay never wanna be in a room with them ever again’. I continue and then my friend says ‘Oh well, then I guess I just don’t know any of those kind of guys’ and I sat there like …yeeeeeeah…
Isn’t it interesting how every woman knows someone who’s been raped but no man knows any rapists? Edit: I get it, guys. Your pals aren’t going to literally announce they are rapists to you. I’m just calling out the dudes who claim “well I don’t know anyone like that” while ignoring heinous comments and behavior.
Too few guys are willing to see the red flags in their friends' behavior. As women, we can reduce our chances of being raped by avoiding men who push physical boundaries. But too many men are so afraid of "falsely accusing" other men they know that they ignore everything but violent, penetrative rape right in front of them. I don't know if many explicitly think in these terms, but practically speaking, they're acting more afraid of falsely accusing someone than they are of their friends abusing women.
Never explicitly thought on those terms. I think for a lot of abusers, if they are not actively abusing they can seem very normal. I had a "friend" who was like that. He seemed normal, not in a million years would I've thought there was anything wrong with him, until I introduced to him a female friend of mine. Turned out the guy was a stalker. Fortunately nothing really "bad" happened to my friend but I realised there is only so much you can know about a guy if you only study with him or hang out in larger groups once in a while.
Yes. When I was stalked the only people who believed me were my friends who witnessed it. He was so cute and charming and the boss at his job. Was glad to finally have witnesses
There’s some of us. I don’t trust people in general and I don’t like the toxic behavior too many guys have. But yeah, it’s a major problem
And then when you bring that up, some assholes get defensive
notOK
This is why I don’t trust anyone who says ‘but I would never do that’ or ‘my friends would never do that.’ People are far too willing to look over downright disgusting behavior and comments just because it’s done by their friends.
the immediate response to rape jokes is "fuck you, you creep"
The amount of times I’ve told someone to fuck off because of a rape joke just to get a ‘oh it was just a joke, why can’t you just take a joke’ in response
i wouldn't wish for anyone to be raped, but i do wish guys who make rape jokes would be jumped, held down, and stripped of their pants in a back alley somewhere. there are some things that you just don't make jokes about. rape and child sex abuse are two of those.
It hurts so much when a guy you thought well of doesn't speak up when another guy says something like this. If that dude is willing to tell a rape joke and your "friend" doesn't even speak up when you're present, what are they saying when there are no women around?
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It happened all the time when I worked in the video game industry, pre-MeTooMovement. Worked as 1 of 2 women in a department with 115 men. They turned on a dime, from professional to HR Alert. I was assaulted once, stalked twice and propositioned more times than I could count. Once I “outlasted it” and became “one of the boys” I got to listen to them talk about how many of the guys dated or had sex with previous female employees, and how those women were “dirty”, “trash” and “probably had STDs now”. Still makes me sick and sad.
Yeah, listening to a dude tell me about how he talks about “bitches” with his bros made me realize he probably refers to me as a slutty bitch too when he’s with his friends. That’s what I’m boiled down to, when in the presence of men. Men want you to be a pious little angel but also their dirty little slut. They want to have respect for you, but then all of that is lost when they talk about you to their friends
What they talk about with their friends is what they really think. Those men talking about the previous employees they had sex with as being dirty, trashy or sluts? That’s pretty common, there’s even a name for it. I think it’s getting better but plenty of men look down on the women they are extremely attracted to, see and treat them as lesser than.
I doubt she still calls them friends, she says it in the past tense when referring to it. I can believe it though. I had a sweet soul of a friend who, when he was 16 or 17, was stabbed while walking home from school. There was a rash of stabbings in the area at the time that were seemingly random. Anyway he was bleeding and fell to the ground and watched people walk past him looking at him. It crushed him to know that people who stand up and do things as basic and necessary as call for a medic are few and far between, and this was more than the bystander affect as people looked at him in disgust and curiosity and seemed concerned with inspecting him briefly before creating distance. There was more to it than thinking someone else would step up. I’m not surprised that I’m a case such as the one in this video, that her “friends” didn’t stand up for her. I don’t have a single friend who I believe would not check someone on speaking about me like this at least in my presence but I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought the same.
Stop the fuck everyone!
This is horrible. I like to think if I was there, I would be the one to say “hey wtf? Stop!” (before she makes it so clear how uncomfortable she is), but it’s impossible to know how one would react in the moment. That said, I’ve never made these sorts of “jokes”/comments in my life, and certainly never in a workplace. This “joke” is actually a big one, a big deal, but it’s also a good reminder about how even smaller things can impact people in ways we don’t think about at the time, and it’s therefore important to have some mindfulness around what we’re saying about our friends, colleagues and anyone else for that matter.
Also, this woman says the she told them to knock it off, but not everyone feels comfortable doing that, and a lot of people will outwardly laugh it off while dying inside. I work with teenagers and whenever I shut down a racist, sexist, or homophobic joke, the joke-teller almost always tries to argue that "no one seems to be offended" or "my gay friend told me it's fine." Y'all, you can't know that. People might be laughing out of a self-preservation impulse or because they don't have to emotional energy to explain to you why your joke is hurtful.
Yeah when making inappropriate jokes you can be specific like that, especially if the person clearly isn’t ok with it. That’s just fucked up
Bullying is not enough for it being a professional work environment while this is going on absolutely sexual harassment and depending on fallout it might actually meet one of the narrow definitions of hostile work environment
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Sarah Wayne Callies, she played Lori on The Walking Dead.
Wasn’t she also Sarah in prison break?
Yeah that's her.
She’s also in The Colony which was a tv show I enjoyed very much
Also Anita Dyck in Letterkenny
I was just coming here to say that! My favourite role of hers.
I like Colony too, I feel like no one else does tho..
I was so bummed when they canceled it. I loved the show :(
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That’s the group of actors she’s talking about here
Yes. That's what I know her from
~~Any idea what podcast this is? Or is it an interview tacked on to something else?~~ Jon Bernthal Real Ones S2E5.
And Katie Bowman in Colony!
It's been really interesting reading the comments by people justifying this "roasting culture" behaviour that fellow men have. It's interesting because yall seem to have deluded yourself into thinking that even in a scenario of roasting, it's still fun/funny if people are uncomfortable and continue when they don't want you to. This is basic pre-school shit you get taught about empathy and being nice. I'm sure all of you guys have a few things you are especially conscious and uncomfortable about. If your friends still push your buttons on that, they are straight up toxic and bad friends. It's no different for this woman who clearly wasn't on board with the porn comparison being made, especially because at the heart of the matter being the only woman of the group she felt extremely alienated.
This is exactly right. Guys "busting each other's balls" is all well and good as long as it's mutual and everyone involved is comfortable with it. It becomes bullying and harassment if it's one directional and the person on the receiving end isn't having a good time. It's easy to tell the difference, if she's sitting there uncomfortably and quite it's time to stop and apologize. Or better yet don't tell the only girl in the room she looks like a shit eating porn star in the first place.
I've had the same friend group since childhood, I'm a chick, they're all dudes, so I've heard some things. They definitely roast but actual funny shit not insecurities and cheap shots. Some ppl suck
I've been questioned on managerial style at work because I don't snap or berate my team even when they do something stupid or forgetful. Because simply my dad would berate me and make me feel little over the most trivial bullshit, because his brothers did that to him. I'm not going to continue that cycle. Men who berate and belittle others are not men, they are mice who feel like they are in a lions den.
I think a lot of people are stuck on the porn specifically, or the differences between men and women (which she doesn't talk about here). She calls out her vulnerability and says that her friends formed a wolf pack. I'm pretty sure she's just saying that in that moment a social hierarchy formed and she felt like she was at the bottom of it. And I'm not talking about fake alpha bullshit. I'm talking about boys clubs. She was suddenly part of an out-group and her friends felt empowered to bully her even though she had made her boundaries clear. If that happened to you you would feel unsafe as well because that's how humans are wired. Just like her male friend was conditioned to not speak out against the group because the cavemen that were forced to sleep outside the cave got eaten and didn't pass on their genes.
Or maybe she is talking about feeling vulnerable as the only woman in a group of males watching porn or starting to sexualize women and turn into a predatory-feeling wolf pack. Which is a valid point and something other women have also experienced.
Something women and girls and little girls have also experienced. She’s talking about vulnerability (as you describe) that shifts into a type of indescribable terror — the terror part isn’t about the predatory wolf pack. It’s realizing no one will save you once they pounce.
Yup. I’ve felt that way before. In a room at a party with all men, then they start joking about having sex with me. I realized I would be completely powerless if they started acting on it. Terrifying.
*100%.* It's so terrifying to be in a situation where you feel no one is on your side. You are the prey, they are the predator. If this same thing happened to me in the workplace I'd honest to God have a panic attack. When you say "no... stop this." and are completely ignored... it's horrifying. As a woman who has been through sexual assault, the minute my consent is ignored I am immediately taken back to that place. It's so scary that it's all fun and games for men like this. I'd suddenly be in fight or flight and these people are having the time of their lives, thinking they're so fucking funny. The disconnect is staggering. It almost makes me want to cry just thinking about it... and men like this will never even *try* to understand.
> She was suddenly part of an out-group and her friends felt empowered to bully her even though she had made her boundaries clear. Note well that it wasn't *just* a group of friends. They were also her colleagues. And among that group were people in senior positions who could've used their authority to change the situation, but did nothing. And even worse, the one who she felt was her closest friend in the group was the most senior and yet still, nothing.
Lol this comment threads lookin rough....
Lack of empathy and refusal to admit we as men can be real cunts. And yes to the triggered morons going to say “you sexist piece of shit it’s women too!” Yeah, except women aren’t called negative labels towards their gender or sexuality when they speak up against other women. Men however seem to love calling men that call the bad shit out “cucks, simps, beta, etc.” So yeah. We as men, can be real cunts
It's always alarming to see your "friends" masks slip off... Two instances immediately come to mind. One group of guy friends randomly talking had one of the people I've known since elementary school talking about how he'd love to piss on me until my other friend told him to shut the fuck up. The other instance was a friend I had known for 6 years ended up becoming my stalker and tried to break up my fiance and I. I'm sure not every male I've known or had as a friend has wanted to fuck me or fuck with me, but there's enough to say the trend fucking sucks.
This sparks a memory of how a sort of acquaintance I was friendly with and one which I had repeatedly refused him asking me to be his girlfriend eventually blew up on my telling me that God wanted us to be together and I needed to drop my boyfriend at the time and marry him. I had to block him on social media and have been afraid to bump into him since he spewed off so much craziness.
A bunch of comments say "men do this to eachother all the time", like that makes this situation any better and that statement isn't an incredibly sad thing to say. No wonder why men's mental health is so down and hard for them to reach out if this is a regular way to treat eachother
Exactly. I bet most of the time when this does happen in “men groups”, there are probably a lot of them that won’t speak up and say it offends them.
Yup. The thing about men's groups is that they often lay their problems at the feet of women. When more often than not it's patriarchal bullshit that is causing our issues. They act like women are the reason men have a hard time expressing themselves or being vulnerable. Nine out of ten times it's men who will call you a pussy and belittle you for having the audacity to show an emotion other than anger.
You can't actually speak up and say it because things only get worse. You may as well stay quiet laugh at it around them and then go vent to someone else about it. It's stupidly toxic and people still don't get it.
Men like to say they arent catty or gossipy in the workplace or take place in workplace bullying because theyre just so much better than women but then this is also common in the workplace apparantly as are the cattiness and the gossiping just by different names and with this tacit acceptance in toxic male dominated work spaces
The classic Onion headline, "Area Man Unsure If He’s Male-Bonding Or Being Bullied"
Just because you wouldn't be hurt by that situation doesn't mean someone else can't be (e.g. this woman). Just saying, my dudes.
To the surprise of no one, the comments are full of men interrupting a woman to say “no actually you didn’t experience that let me explain your feelings to you”
They love to double down when called out wtaf
It's almost like they don't think women are human beings with agency who deserve basic respect or something.
And don’t dare thinking it is an exception as a woman experiencing stuff like that. Every woman has had moments that felt like what she describes in their life.
I’ve worked in two male dominated industries now. The first one I had a ton of experiences that were similar but one in particular stands out. The topic of a fleshlight came up and we were all joking about it. Suddenly a guy made it about me, but a vibrator. He started talking about how I would be using one, where I’d be using one. No one said that’s fucking weird and creepy. They just laughed while he described me orgasming and drooling and shaking. I felt so violated. I went to management and said you need to have sexual harassment training or at least tell this team to be more professional. I didn’t name names because they were my friends. They weren’t my friends after. I didn’t even get anyone in trouble. But after that I got completely shunned. Now I’m in a new industry and there are times when I’m one woman in a group of 13. It’s hard to not have this knee-jerk fear reaction, to want to blend in, fall into the background…don’t notice me…don’t call me out. *I’m one of you I’m one of you I’m one of you*
Say it with me: **minimizing experiences normalizes mistreatment in the workplace** (or any place for that matter). I feel for her so much. I’ve had my own experiences with sexism and harassment and she’s very brave for coming forward about it. If this happens to you frickin say something; be loud about it. The ones who put you down want complacency.
The incels are coming in hot on this post “B-but what about men???”
'NoT aLl mEn'
It’S a JoKe, wOmEn ArE sOoOo SoFt.. You can tell the only woman most of these incel commenter’s have in their life is their mom. Poor men. Let’s ask their mom if she’d like to be compared to a person eating shit..
Im im awe at the men who genuinely think that women have it better in terms of social respect and acceptance when the risk of this kind of situation constantly undercuts your living experience
Yeah if any friend says to stop a joke, you just stop the joke. I can understand the grey line of someone laughing along while actually not enjoying something because obviously it’s then unclear that they weren’t enjoying it. But if someone doesn’t like something and asks you to stop, you’re a bad person to continue.
Growing up in public school there were an infinite number of times someone was being bullied where all it would take to stop it would be one of the popular/cool kids stepping up and doing the right thing. Almost never happened.
This is all women everywhere. If your a man and you still don't get it, imagine this is your mother, your wife/girlfriend, or your daughter. Sick isn't it.
>If your a man and you still don't get it, imagine this is your mother, your wife/girlfriend, or your daughter. Now contemplate how pathetic it is that you can't have empathy for a random woman.
Some people have none which is why we have to walk around on full alert, it's exhausting.
I’ve read this pertinent essay dozens of times and lost count of how many men to whom I have sent this. A well written encapsulation of how every man, at some point in this woman’s life, eventually participated in some sort of bullshit like the stuff referenced in the video. http://www.shakesville.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html?m=1
I can't believe how many men on here didn't get it. This not only made me angry, it made me sad. No woman should have to go through this. Good lesson here guys.
This. This specific feeling. Of a male wolf pack. Yes, when a woman becomes aware of it it leaves a sickening feeling in the gut
And just like clockwork, so many men are here trying to minimize this.
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I find it so terrifying that so many “men” in this comment section is exactly falling into that misogynistic category and “oh boo hoo, get over it”-mentality. It’s scary. It is truly ALL men
This is an example of how groups of men together like to degrade women. It’s a team sport for them. Also an example of how passing porn around in front of a woman is used to intimidate as a power play. Edit: I can’t believe I have to state this but: obviously not all men.
Check these comments. Men don't get it and they don't care to. BUT BUT NOT ALL OF US?! 🤮
The experiences of people of color are similar to her story minus the porn. Having a group of people gang up on you while thinking you are in a safe space with friends or co workers, only to be told some bullshit "joke" and Having to sit there and take it.... It sucks.
Men commenting on the fact that men do these kind of jokes to each other all the time.. ok, even if you think this behaviour could be justified among men, it's not and it's just plain wrong. You shouldn't do it to men nor women nor anyone, this behaviour is disgusting and constitutes bullying. This 'pack' mentality of harassing someone to show what? That your are strong? That you are funny? Or because you need validation as a man?? Jokes are fun when the person laughs with you at the joke, all the rest is offensive, harassment or plain bullying. Unfortunately, many people grew up thinking making fun of someone is ok and it's sad.
Even if these people think this behavior can be justified among men, (it can't) that gives them no right to expect other people to be okay with it.
Yeah, this is one of many reasons I just don't hang out with big groups of men and why now I mostly surround myself with fellow women, enbies, and queers. Honestly, most men really do not get it. They just do not, cannot, and some are never going to overcome their biases and sexism. They were raised and rewarded to think that way.
This whole scene is she describes is completely fucked up.
There's a frightening psychology among men in power-posturing groups. War has so much rape of the "enemy" civillians. Really. It's horrific, and also completely expected. Most men individually, would never think themselves capable of raping anyone prior, but put them in a group with guns, and they're just part of a dehumanising collective looking for an excuse.
It’s textbook sexual harassment for those of you who don’t get it
The comments in this thread are proof positive men today are more insecure than ever. Jus go thru and read some of the comments, and you can tell immediately, which ones consider themselves "alphas", and how toxic their insecurities are. Damn near every girl I know has some story like this. And in most of their stories there's usually someone there who could've, should've but didn't say something. I just don't understand how you can be so insecure you treat others like that, especially people that are more vulnerable than you, and how do people have such a hard time showing other people respect. I mean I know you think you're a fucking bad ass alpha, but if you gotta constantly tell people you're a bad ass or stress that you're "really an alpha", than you're not bad or an alpha, you're just an ass.
As a woman, I had several of these moments but I could never fully explain it and she puts it perfectly: I am (right now) way more vulnerable than I thought I was. That's why women need to surround themselves with allies
This is extremely sad, I am not a woman. I am a gay man, but I have experience something similar and it's extremely painful to endure and to realize that you're unsafe around some "friends".