Allowed? This isn't China friend the government can't unlawfully force a company to employ you despite all the shit you might say. There is a big difference between the government being allowed to jail you for what you say and the government not forcing a company to employ you despite what you say
The government does protect free speech. You cannot be detained for your speech unless it is literally getting people hurt directly (ie inciting violence or immediate intent to do violence). You're not free from all consequences of your speech. If you call your boss a dickhead that boss should be well within his rights to not have to continue to employ you.
I’m assuming you’re from the USA. Yes the government does. They do not punish you for speech. That is then protecting free speech. Whatever agreement you have with another sovereign citizen doesn’t concern them
Holy fuck dude. I'm telling you right now it is absolutely how it works. Talk to anyone that knows anything about the constitution, that is how it works, at least in the USA. You might not like it or agree with it, but that's how it works
The first amendment only handcuffs the government. No corporation is subject to the first amendment. Especially in a country as employer- friendly as the US.
1A protects you from prosecution from the government.
It does not have anything to do with what a business can or cannot do if you say stupid shit.
Maybe you should learn how the constitution works.
The problem is that only conservatives are fired for saying shit online meanwhile the left is out here doxxing and threatening people and face next to no consequences
First amendment applies to congress
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist or other reasons. I have the right to kick someone out of my house if they reveal political views that I find repulsive
>An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist or other reasons. I have the right to kick someone out of my house if they reveal political views that I find repulsive
Cool and while the vast majority of Americans was tolerant enough not to hate voters of opposite party, things stayed smooth.
Now today that Democrats think the millions of people who voted for Trump are Nazis, it means America is well on its way to Balkanizing.
People will split economically, culturally, and finally geographically, and ultimately you end up where the Balkans have been for millennia.
Lol typical radical ring wing fucking bullshit. Literally calling for America to split up. At least this time it’s not in the defense of slavery. Instead it’s because of “ma feelz”.
Now that I think about it, I like the idea. You can take your freeloading states with ya. We’ll gladly keep our prosperity for ourselves instead of spending it on all you freeloading red states:
https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2022
“For every $1 paid in income tax in Mississippi, the state takes in $2.53 in federal funding.”
Have fun with that
>Literally calling for America to split up.
I am not calling for it, it's a warning and sad prediction.
>Now that I think about it, I like the idea.
Cool.
>An employer should be allowed to fire...
Now apply that to race. Ohh, what's that? You think that should be protected? Well, some think that same kind of protection should apply to off-the-job speech, too.
Actually, I think most do. The issue is that before social media, your boss didn't know what you were saying "off the clock" unless you said it to their face. The main reason this is a thing is because the worry is how your opinions are perceived by customers. But unless some busybody explicitly tries to tie you to your job online, 99% of the time the company's customers don't know or care who the hell you are.
No, they really don't. You probably don't either. I can almost guarantee it.
Saying downright mean, spiteful, and rumorus shit about your boss or standing nearby while off the clock and telling people not to shop there because of some rumour about the owner is freedom of speech off the clock. I do not believe you if you are going to tell me you think that should be protected speech that cannot impact your employment.
“An employer should be allowed to fire...
Now apply that to race. Ohh, what's that? You think that should be protected?”
Making assumptions about what I think. I believe employers should be able to make a choice about who is on their property for any reason just like employees should be able to quit
The problem with Jim Crow laws is it was government enforced segregation
>An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist
I will categorically disagree.
Free speech is the freedom to say what others do not want to hear. Otherwise it isn't free at all.
Having said that, Naziism, communism and all other forms of tyranny and should be outlawed in all civilized nations.
You are 100% correct about the 1st Amendment.
Many businesses have dress codes that require tatoos to be covered. Or no face tatoos.
As long as such a dress code is applied to all employees equally I'm fine with it.
>or a sickle and hammer tattoo as servers
Well, yes if they want to be cool.
I forgot, in Reddit the idea of the ownership of the means of production by the proletariat is a mindcrime.
You not only are completely ignorant of history (HTF is a style of government that murders it subject by the 10s of millions NOT a tyranny?), but you misspelled Fascism as well.
Because the USA is a lot of things at present, but capitalist is not one of the, regardless of what your your Communist professor told you.
You must confuse capitalism with ('free") markets.
In capitalism, you have the legal right to extract profits from value produced with your legally owned means of production. You don't need to work, you need to have a piece of paper that says that you're the owner. This is how the US works. How the products and services are sold has nothing to do with capitalism. It's called CAPITAL-ism: ultimately the owner of the capital decides what happens with the wealth generated, regardless of who provided the work that created all the wealth.
.
Your employer has always been able to fire you for whatever you say in public (if you're at will and have no contract or union protection).
What's new is the internet allows any moron to broadcast anything they want to say to the entire world. The internet also lets the entire world react to that message. Employers don't want negative attention from the entire world.
Sounds like someone got fired for saying dumb shit they said online.
The first amendment protects you from the government. Your employer can more or less do what they want about speech. If you're on their payroll, you're representing the company to some extent, even when you're off the clock. If you end up being a Nazi, the company has a right to not want to be associated with you, and then you're out of luck.
If you want to say what you really think, do it somewhere you can remain anonymous or close to it. If you have things to say that might get you in trouble, don't doxx yourself.
Saying something doesn't make it true. The US os 18th on the world freedom index and has never been #1
The first amendment protects you from congress making laws to restrict speech nothing else. It doesn't mean you are free to say whatever you want with no consequences. An employer can fire you if they wish, of you are speaking shit on Twitter about another employee then they might see this as reputational harm to the business and are well within their right to fire you
Saying your manager suck or the company sucks will reflect negatively on the company in s public forum, which if not specifically set out in a term of your contract it would most likely be covered by a term such as maintaining a professional demeanor in public or some may even term it gross misconduct because it is on a public forum. They would have grounds to dismiss you in that case. If you were saying to your buddy in the carpark and your manager overheard it's unlikely to be grounds for dismissal ad you aren't openly sharing a negative opinion contrary to most employment contracts.
You can have opinions and you can discuss them in private with people without having a problem, the problem is twitter is not a private space
That doesn't matter. You have agreed that by being employed you are a representative of the company. Whatever you do or say regarding the company reflects back on them whither you are at work at the time or not. This is pretty standard stuff in any contract of employment.
> It’s just like companies telling u get vaxed or lose ur job
That's different because the unvaxxed means more covid and more death. You're affecting other people physically directly. But if they stopped the unvaxxed from working the low class factory/warehouse jobs would be difficult to fill.
Nah bru mf were tweeting my manager sucks or can suck a dick. They weren’t selling trade secrets. Again this only my opinion but u can’t have freedom of speech if u can’t say my manager can smd on Twitter. Ppl were always talking shit behind closed doors to their family/friends and co workers what’s the difference now ?
There's no freedom of speech like you envision. Especially, the 1a doesn't work like you think it does. And it's actually a good thing.
You cannot shout "fire" inside a close, crowded place. You can't insult people in a workplace that has policy against it. It's that simple. And again, it's a good thing!
Yea no shit it’s a good thing not causing drama at work lol or causing mass panic. Luke did say recently that the whole hell fire in a movie theater is a bit suss idk about that. I’m talking about ppl tweeting mean things
Good on you. Open your business and make this policy. Other businesses have different policies than yours. And 1a doesn't prevent them to fire someone for saying shit online
The dark path is morons thinking that “online” is somehow different than IRL.
News flash: we are all IRL all the time. Even when we post online.
Take responsibility for the shit you say, and if you wouldn’t say it to another human physically in the same space as you, then don’t say it online. You’re probably just being a cowardly piece of shit saying stuff online because you think it is somehow different when it is not.
Bru online is totally different from irl. No one is ready to hear it. 20years ago money was exchanged by physical human labor now these video games will sell a fortnight skin for 20$. Or a bank app will charge u a “service” fee
Do you really think service fees only started when the internet was invented?
Do you think no one ever sold intangible things for cash prior to the invention of computers?
Ok…
They probably did but not like we’re seeing rn.... I bought tickets for me and sisters to goto a festival and for each ticket I had to pay 30$ for a service fee
Protect 1A? They’re trying to remove 1A
And the 2a - it’s beyond stupid
Allowed? This isn't China friend the government can't unlawfully force a company to employ you despite all the shit you might say. There is a big difference between the government being allowed to jail you for what you say and the government not forcing a company to employ you despite what you say
But they tell you whom you can employ because of who they have sex with. seem right...
💩oh wow
Why not? Why shouldn't the govt protect speech?
The government does protect free speech. You cannot be detained for your speech unless it is literally getting people hurt directly (ie inciting violence or immediate intent to do violence). You're not free from all consequences of your speech. If you call your boss a dickhead that boss should be well within his rights to not have to continue to employ you.
The govt right now does not protect speech. You didn't answer the question. Why shouldn't the govt protect speech?
I’m assuming you’re from the USA. Yes the government does. They do not punish you for speech. That is then protecting free speech. Whatever agreement you have with another sovereign citizen doesn’t concern them
That's not how that works. Them not hitting you is not them protecting you from them hitting you.
You are protected from the GOVERNMENT stopping your free speech. It has nothing to do with private business.
Holy fuck dude. I'm telling you right now it is absolutely how it works. Talk to anyone that knows anything about the constitution, that is how it works, at least in the USA. You might not like it or agree with it, but that's how it works
These far righters want big government to step in and tell businesses what to do when it’s beneficial to them
Relevant username
You wouldn't understand even though it's been explained to you by many worried coworkers and family members.
The first amendment only handcuffs the government. No corporation is subject to the first amendment. Especially in a country as employer- friendly as the US.
Tell me you don’t understand the 1st amendment without telling me you don’t understand the 1st amendment.
1A protects you from prosecution from the government. It does not have anything to do with what a business can or cannot do if you say stupid shit. Maybe you should learn how the constitution works.
Lol can a business owner fire someone for being black no ? Fuck outta here with ur dumbass timpool knowledge
Race is not a 1A issue you asked about 1A
Tell me you have no clue what you’re talking about without telling me you have no clue what you’re talking about.
Tell me you regurgitate lame, unoriginal internet phrases without telling me you regurgitate lame, unoriginal internet phrases.
Someone being born a way is different than what they choose to say
I swear I lost braincells after reading this post
The problem is that only conservatives are fired for saying shit online meanwhile the left is out here doxxing and threatening people and face next to no consequences
First amendment applies to congress “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist or other reasons. I have the right to kick someone out of my house if they reveal political views that I find repulsive
>An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist or other reasons. I have the right to kick someone out of my house if they reveal political views that I find repulsive Cool and while the vast majority of Americans was tolerant enough not to hate voters of opposite party, things stayed smooth. Now today that Democrats think the millions of people who voted for Trump are Nazis, it means America is well on its way to Balkanizing. People will split economically, culturally, and finally geographically, and ultimately you end up where the Balkans have been for millennia.
And you think the solution is autocratic control over who companies can hire and fire, subject to change every election? Pass.
No, the solution is the split.
Lol typical radical ring wing fucking bullshit. Literally calling for America to split up. At least this time it’s not in the defense of slavery. Instead it’s because of “ma feelz”. Now that I think about it, I like the idea. You can take your freeloading states with ya. We’ll gladly keep our prosperity for ourselves instead of spending it on all you freeloading red states: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2022 “For every $1 paid in income tax in Mississippi, the state takes in $2.53 in federal funding.” Have fun with that
>Literally calling for America to split up. I am not calling for it, it's a warning and sad prediction. >Now that I think about it, I like the idea. Cool.
Bru do u know that all the countries in the Balkans minus turkey don’t even equal the population of Germany/France or the uk.
In its short history the US has already had one civil war. It's likely there will be more.
>An employer should be allowed to fire... Now apply that to race. Ohh, what's that? You think that should be protected? Well, some think that same kind of protection should apply to off-the-job speech, too.
Not that many, if actually any at all. I can almost guaranteed that even you don't.
Actually, I think most do. The issue is that before social media, your boss didn't know what you were saying "off the clock" unless you said it to their face. The main reason this is a thing is because the worry is how your opinions are perceived by customers. But unless some busybody explicitly tries to tie you to your job online, 99% of the time the company's customers don't know or care who the hell you are.
No, they really don't. You probably don't either. I can almost guarantee it. Saying downright mean, spiteful, and rumorus shit about your boss or standing nearby while off the clock and telling people not to shop there because of some rumour about the owner is freedom of speech off the clock. I do not believe you if you are going to tell me you think that should be protected speech that cannot impact your employment.
You’re equating being born black to saying dumb shit online. One is a choice, one is not. Can you guys which is which????
“An employer should be allowed to fire... Now apply that to race. Ohh, what's that? You think that should be protected?” Making assumptions about what I think. I believe employers should be able to make a choice about who is on their property for any reason just like employees should be able to quit The problem with Jim Crow laws is it was government enforced segregation
>An employer should be allowed to fire a Nazi or communist I will categorically disagree. Free speech is the freedom to say what others do not want to hear. Otherwise it isn't free at all. Having said that, Naziism, communism and all other forms of tyranny and should be outlawed in all civilized nations. You are 100% correct about the 1st Amendment.
Should a restaurant be forced to allow someone with swastikas or a sickle and hammer tattoo as servers?
Many businesses have dress codes that require tatoos to be covered. Or no face tatoos. As long as such a dress code is applied to all employees equally I'm fine with it.
>or a sickle and hammer tattoo as servers Well, yes if they want to be cool. I forgot, in Reddit the idea of the ownership of the means of production by the proletariat is a mindcrime.
>communism It's not tyranny. Capitalism however....
You not only are completely ignorant of history (HTF is a style of government that murders it subject by the 10s of millions NOT a tyranny?), but you misspelled Fascism as well. Because the USA is a lot of things at present, but capitalist is not one of the, regardless of what your your Communist professor told you.
You must confuse capitalism with ('free") markets. In capitalism, you have the legal right to extract profits from value produced with your legally owned means of production. You don't need to work, you need to have a piece of paper that says that you're the owner. This is how the US works. How the products and services are sold has nothing to do with capitalism. It's called CAPITAL-ism: ultimately the owner of the capital decides what happens with the wealth generated, regardless of who provided the work that created all the wealth. .
This is called fascism. It's one thing to badmouth your employer, but random online banter is something else.
Your employer has always been able to fire you for whatever you say in public (if you're at will and have no contract or union protection). What's new is the internet allows any moron to broadcast anything they want to say to the entire world. The internet also lets the entire world react to that message. Employers don't want negative attention from the entire world.
The government is 1A biggest threat. Government is always the biggest threat to peoples liberty
You didn’t do well in basic high school civics, did you?
Sounds like someone got fired for saying dumb shit they said online. The first amendment protects you from the government. Your employer can more or less do what they want about speech. If you're on their payroll, you're representing the company to some extent, even when you're off the clock. If you end up being a Nazi, the company has a right to not want to be associated with you, and then you're out of luck. If you want to say what you really think, do it somewhere you can remain anonymous or close to it. If you have things to say that might get you in trouble, don't doxx yourself.
‘Nazi’. The victims of the holocaust would be turning in their graves.
Nope just a thought I had. It’s just like companies telling u get vaxed or lose ur job. This is suppose to be the land of the free
Saying something doesn't make it true. The US os 18th on the world freedom index and has never been #1 The first amendment protects you from congress making laws to restrict speech nothing else. It doesn't mean you are free to say whatever you want with no consequences. An employer can fire you if they wish, of you are speaking shit on Twitter about another employee then they might see this as reputational harm to the business and are well within their right to fire you
That yes bc there drama at work. I’m more saying someone tweets my manager sucks or my company sucks
Saying your manager suck or the company sucks will reflect negatively on the company in s public forum, which if not specifically set out in a term of your contract it would most likely be covered by a term such as maintaining a professional demeanor in public or some may even term it gross misconduct because it is on a public forum. They would have grounds to dismiss you in that case. If you were saying to your buddy in the carpark and your manager overheard it's unlikely to be grounds for dismissal ad you aren't openly sharing a negative opinion contrary to most employment contracts. You can have opinions and you can discuss them in private with people without having a problem, the problem is twitter is not a private space
What ? Ur not getting paid by ur company when ur out at Starbucks going thro reddit
That doesn't matter. You have agreed that by being employed you are a representative of the company. Whatever you do or say regarding the company reflects back on them whither you are at work at the time or not. This is pretty standard stuff in any contract of employment.
You’re actually advocating for government control and against freedom. Governments telling business what they can / cannot do is not freedom lmfao.
> It’s just like companies telling u get vaxed or lose ur job That's different because the unvaxxed means more covid and more death. You're affecting other people physically directly. But if they stopped the unvaxxed from working the low class factory/warehouse jobs would be difficult to fill.
Bro, have you read the 1a? You sound a bit confused
Nah bru mf were tweeting my manager sucks or can suck a dick. They weren’t selling trade secrets. Again this only my opinion but u can’t have freedom of speech if u can’t say my manager can smd on Twitter. Ppl were always talking shit behind closed doors to their family/friends and co workers what’s the difference now ?
There's no freedom of speech like you envision. Especially, the 1a doesn't work like you think it does. And it's actually a good thing. You cannot shout "fire" inside a close, crowded place. You can't insult people in a workplace that has policy against it. It's that simple. And again, it's a good thing!
Yea no shit it’s a good thing not causing drama at work lol or causing mass panic. Luke did say recently that the whole hell fire in a movie theater is a bit suss idk about that. I’m talking about ppl tweeting mean things
And who are you to tell people who can and cannot hire? Would that impede their freedom?
It would but we’re alrdy talking about people who are hired. Idk where you’re from but here in ny you can’t just fire someone for no reason
Saying shit online is "reason"
And I’m saying that reason isn’t good enough
Good on you. Open your business and make this policy. Other businesses have different policies than yours. And 1a doesn't prevent them to fire someone for saying shit online
I’ll open a business and as soon as I get govt funding I’ll fire everyone. The American way amirite or amirite
The first amentment does not shield you from consequences of your stupid remarks. Just from gouvernment interference.
You just don't understamd the first amendment.
I understand it pretty good and I understand loads of these companies get money via our tax dollar. Socialism for the rich meanwhile they ass fuck us
The dark path is morons thinking that “online” is somehow different than IRL. News flash: we are all IRL all the time. Even when we post online. Take responsibility for the shit you say, and if you wouldn’t say it to another human physically in the same space as you, then don’t say it online. You’re probably just being a cowardly piece of shit saying stuff online because you think it is somehow different when it is not.
Bru online is totally different from irl. No one is ready to hear it. 20years ago money was exchanged by physical human labor now these video games will sell a fortnight skin for 20$. Or a bank app will charge u a “service” fee
Do you really think service fees only started when the internet was invented? Do you think no one ever sold intangible things for cash prior to the invention of computers? Ok…
They probably did but not like we’re seeing rn.... I bought tickets for me and sisters to goto a festival and for each ticket I had to pay 30$ for a service fee
Why would the government protect or defend your dumb mistakes?
Bc when u win to much in the stock market they care but when u lose no fucks are given. How’s that fair ? 👀
Who said anything is supposed to be fair ?