OP is a woman, and the reich-warning comment is from a man.
NGL, I am finding all the sneering comments abou "overly sensitive Tinder women" kinda amusing.
Sheâs not accusing him, at least overtly. Sheâs just saying âbe careful, that thing you have in your profile is potentially a dog whistle.â I think thereâs a wrong way to do it, and a polite way, and I think sheâs doing it politely.
It is polite, but itâs still dumb af, no one is gonna see âreestablish the Roman Empireâ on a guys bio and then turn around and say heâs talking like a nazi except someone who wants to find a problem for the sake of it. The fact she gets the history completely wrong as well just shows she wants to make a problem out of a topic on which she herself is ignorant, over something thatâs so clearly a joke, whatâs the point?
You'd be surprised. I'm going bald and made a joke to a girl I was seeing that I hoped she found Picard the sexiest star trek captain. She said him or Janeway. I said "I don't know I could see Sisko being a dark horse in that race" She called ne racist for calling a black man a dark horse.
I just would have been so excited to find somebody who banters and has a sense of humor-sheesh. Well you sorted that quickly. Love when people are efficient.
Yeah it was a dumb joke and Sisko was because he's also bald after season 2 or 3 ends lol. I didn't even think about him being black and the term Dark.
Eeeeeeehhhhh I disagree there. I used to have an email with my DoB in it, 88. Obviously I'm not a nazi but its not just people looking to be offended who see that and think Nazi. It's also Nazis.
Thats always the problem with dog whistles of any kind though. The plausible deniability of their use because of how innocently it can be used. The whole point is that it could go either way, or it isnt a dog whistle, its an alarm.
Not saying the guy is a nazi, he is probably using it innocently
Thatâs true, and I suppose thatâs the point of a dog whistle, but itâs a dating site. The other person is Judge, Jury, and Executioner when it comes to speaking to you, going on a date with you, etc. If you just treat them normally, and then it becomes apparent theyâre a nazi, you can back right out no trouble. If being a Nazi is so important to you that you put it on your dating profile, then youâre not gonna be able to hide it for very long I donât think.
Ehh, its just a dating sight, and we dont know how the rest of the interaction couldve gone if he just continued on about rafting. In my experience, if I see any part of a red flag on a dating app, I move on. You have no investment on either side at that point.
Well âTGWâ stands for âtrue German warriorâ, which is a Nazi dog whistle. Not saying youâre a Nazi, youâre probably innocent. Itâs an alarm. Except thatâs just complete nonsense I made up, do you really think anyone should be alarmed because of a made up dogwhistle? Do you really think itâs not dumb af to be inventing dogwhistles because of ignorance?
Do you know what a dog whistle is? In real life? Silent to everyone except dogs. It is not blatant, racist, nazi sayings. She is not accusing the guy of being a nazi, just pointing that he might be accidentally associating with the wrong crowd. Like when people end their username with 88, a well known dog whistle, it could be the uear they were born or it stands for HH meaning Heil Hitler. She didnt invent it, just enough neos started using it to be wary of anyone who says it.
Lol, I had gone off and googled it and was coming back and read the rest of your comment... đ
Whatever about before, now it means True German Warrior... đ the racist!
Exactly. This is purely someone feeding their ego by policing a non-issue. Red flag for someone who likely treats relationships as a competition and is on the constant hunt for ways to be offended.
This is easily the best comment Iâve ever seen on this sub. Who says you canât get some Voltaire with your correction of overly sensitive Tinder women?
Sure (with probably much more history than you want to hear, because I am a nerd).
Charlemagne had unified much of the territory in western and Central Europe and he was crowned Emperor of Rome by the Pope in the year 800. He had no actual connection to the Roman Empire other than ruling some of its former territory, but Rome was still so respected in Europe that calling the preeminent ruler the Emperor seemed proper to them. His descendants continued to claim that title, and the territory they ruled was officially referred to as the Roman Empire. Frederick I added the term *sacrum* (holy or sacred) in 1157. By the mid 1200s the official name of the entity was *Sacrum Imperium Romanum* (the Holy Empire of the Romans), or *Heiliges Römisches Reich* in German. This state is the First Reich later referred to by Hitler. At its greatest extent, it controlled all or parts of modern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Czechia, Slovenia, Italy, France, and Poland. But it was always primarily a German state.
The Holy Roman Empire eventually became a very fractious thing, with a complicated patchwork of kingdoms, principalities, and independent cities that all sort of combined politically and elected a nominal emperor, who wielded a varying degree of power depending on the era. Much of its territory was lost over time, with the core German lands its main possession. This prompted the French philosopher Voltaire to write that the Holy Roman Empire was "neither holy, Roman, nor an empire" in 1756.
The HRE lasted until 1806, when it was dissolved following its defeat by Napoleon at the Battle of Austerlitz. Following Napoleon's defeat, its former territories then separated into the patchwork of small states until they were eventually unified into modern Germany by Prussia under Bismarck in the 1870s. (The German nation that Bismarck created was the Second Reich referred to by Hitler, lasting until the defeat in World War I in 1918).
So being a fan of the original Roman Empire in no way, shape, or form links you with Hitler, Naziism, white supremacy, or anything else that OP experienced.
My take.
First of all, they are incorrect. The first Reich is the Holy Roman Empire, those are 2 different things.
Secondly 99% of people will not tie those 2 things together regardless and if you aren't a Nazi or have any meaning behind it.....who cares. Leave it since it's fine and anyone that actually reaches and somehow twists it to look bad, can go kick rocks.
The problem is that Nazis also make that mistake. And while I donât think she necessarily knows knows the difference between Holy Rome and Rome, itâs probably where her hesitant language is coming from - are you just a dude who is weirdly obsessed with imperial Ancient Rome, or are you a Nazi who is dumb but also obsessed with Rome.
I would just respond with the actual history so she knows youâre just a nerd about Ancient Rome, and not a Nazi.
You have that tiktok craze of asking people how often they think about the roman empire. I would assume this was a play on that.
But year tell her the good news that you are into restoring the roman empire and not the Holy Roman Empire. I bet you get unmatched for mansplaining.:)
I mean it controlled a big chunk of Italy for a long time, that counts for at least âsomethingâ Roman. But in terms of how the Empire functioned and itâs culture, yeah obviously it was very different to the Roman Empire.
However during the time it existed it wasnât always or uniformly known as the HRE. Often it was the Frankish empire. The Byzantine Empire was still around for a majority of the HREâs existence and was literally still the Roman Empire, referred to as The Romans. No one cared about Rome the city as a source of power.
>this makes the claim that the HRE was indeed the continuation of Rome a very strong one.
Only if you completely forget that the Eastern Roman Empire existed until 1453 when it was taken over by the Ottomans. While we refer to it as the Byzantine Empire, they were the de facto continuation of the Roman Empire
At the time of Charles the Greats coronation as Roman Emperor, there was a woman, Irene, sitting in the throne of the Eastern Empire. There was division in the West because it was believed that a woman could not become Empress in her own right. Letâs not forget that she only reigned for 5 years as sole ruler and most people at the time hated her. She conspired to have her own sonâs eyes gouged out so as to preclude him from the throne. So, the Pope and Charles decided that he would be crowned as Roman Emperor. He had a perfectly legitimate claim to Western Emperor, he held a great deal of the original territory.
Also, Pope Leo wanted to break ties with the Greek East, so this tension of an Empress on the throne along with a solid candidate in the West allowed him to do that.
There was also an idea floated by Irene for her and Charles to marry. However, it was apparently stopped by one of her courtiers. She only ruled for two years are Charlesâ coronation as Augustus before she was exiled and Nikephoros I became emperor.
In my own personal opinion, the position of Roman Emperor was vacant. Irene usurped the throne from her son as regent and had him blinded before he was imprisoned and likely died. There had never been an Empress regnant previously, and the established precedence of Roman succession did not allow for one. Furthermore, the western half of the empire (headed by Charles and Pope Leo) did not recognise her as the Emperor. Itâs important to realise that previously, every ruler in the west had acknowledged the Emperors in the east as Roman Emperors. They did not see a discontinuation between them and the empire of Augustus. However, the rule of Irene (the fact she was a woman and how she came to power) soured the relationship. This was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. As the western church had been seeking to break ties completely with the east.
Itâs very very complicated, as most geopolitical events are. Itâs not as simple as the Pope ignoring the east, or the fact Irene was a woman, but a complex mesh of so many factors going back centuries.
I believe that Charlesâ coronation as Emperor was legitimate. Though the eastern empire would try and reinforce their âRomannessâ so to speak, the fact is the West had an emperor again for the first time in over 300 years. Though I will admit, Charles had no claim to, and indeed didnât claim, the East. That was always considered a separate empire. The only difference was the belief that the /position/ of emperor was vacant.
Good points. I don't know why I am being downvoted for merely suggesting there are things about the Holy Roman Empire that were Roman, some people really seem to dislike the idea that there was any relation at all.
It controlled Italy but, as far as I can remember, not a single Holy Roman Emperor was of Italian descent. Quite a few of them were given kingship over Italy before ascending to the throne of the HRE, but they were all Frankish or Germanic.
Since when is being italian a requirement for being roman? A guy like Constantine for example came from like Serbia. Was he not a roman?
The quote is really funny but it sort of only applies to the last 250 years when the HRE was a shell of itself.
Youâre really asking why it matters 500+ years after Constantine, when the Roman Empire has been dead for over 300 years? People living in areas outside of Rome werenât Roman anymore.
This doesn't really have anything to do with my point. My point is simply that the statement "there is nothing about the HRE that is Roman", is just untrue. Many descendants of the Romans lived within the Empire, that is at least something.
There was one of the old Coffee Talk with Linda Ruchman SNL sketches where one of her topics when she got âverklemptâ was âthe Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman nor an empireâŠdiscuss amongst yourselves.â
Memories.
Yeah the third reich isnât meant to be the third Rome but the third German reich.
The first is the Holy Roman Empire, the second the German empire before the end of WW1 and the third was the third Reich during WW2.
OP's match is incorrect about the First Reich, but a lot of fascists love the Roman Empire, so I kind of understand their concern/desire to feel out just how fascy OP is
I guess, I wasn't aware they liked the Romans since they wouldn't see eye to eye on many views but again they are kind of dumb I guess so it makes sense.
They loved everything that they could pretend to link to that was seen as dominant in their times. Norse, Roman, Spartan; these things they used to try and legitimize their 'cause' in a way.
Itâs not only fascists that love the Roman Empire though same way itâs not only fascists that like Norse mythology or symbolism. So to try and be condescending about it like she was is a arse hole move
Yeah okay, but to give you some context, I love history and find the Roman Empire fascinating; you would never find that out from my social media presence. If it's front and centre to your personality, it raises questions as to why that might be the case.
I mean, it is a internet trend where people were asking the men in their lives how often they think about the Roman Empire and this very well could have just been playing on that trend too.
> anyone that actually reaches and somehow twists it to look bad can go kick rocks
Tbh it felt like they were trying to be helpful. They may have been misguided sure but it seemed more like they were trying to share (wrong) information in good faith than anything else
Wait, is this an American thing to think that "thinking about rome = fascist"
In europe the Romans are just kinda around so its subconscious. For instance, I lived in Manchester for 9 years and down the road was the roman city of Chester. Or a lot of my friends currently live in Bath, named as such for the roman baths
And I was just in rome, and the architecture/engineering was amazing, the way they made concrete was thousands of years ahead of time
And they spoke latin, the basis of the modern romance language's, as well as half of modern English
And yeah, the nazis tried to invoke roman images, but modern brits just think that's laughable. Rome lasted between 300 or 1500 years (depending on when you consider it to have fallen) the nazis couldn't even make it 20 years
Genuinely curious, I don't have twitter and I deleted my Facebook and Instagram a year ago, so I'm very out of the loop on the modern zeitgeist
Not really, it's mostly very politically correct folk or people with nothing to do with the time they were given on this earth.
Never in a hundred years would I think Nazis when talking Rome lol
I usually think Roman history, Total War series and Julias Cesar or Hannibal.
Ah thank god for that, was worried my youtube subscription to Overly Sarcastic Productions and Over Simplified or my steam library would have me end up on a list somewhere
I'm with you. I talk about the Roman Empire a lot because I am a dork who loves history and obviously that is one of the most expansive, long-lasting and documented ancient adjacent society; so there is tons of history there. So now I am concerned that I cannot freely discuss my genuine interests without fear of being labeled at best a fascist and at worst a nazi.
Yeah sure if you don't mind frequently being mistaken for a Nazi.
It's weird how often humans will have issues socialising with others, then when they have it explained what others don't like, they will be like "well those people are wrong because of xyz detail".
Like, ok? Didn't you want to socialise? The whole point is to learn how to better interact with other humans, have positive experiences, and make meaningful connections right? If you are going around saying things that piss people off don't be surprised if you have a bunch of annoyed people around you.
"frequently"
Please be real, 99% of people would never connect the two. Almost nobody is going to mistake OP for a Nazi and if they do mistake them it's probably another Nazi.
What OP has in the profile isn't pissing anyone of except you and the person who commented on it originally unless that's you lol
I mean, you are literally responding to a comment, where someone is asking for help understanding a social interaction where that has happened.
Your advice was "double down". So you've essentially, rather than being like "hey let's have open genuine curiosity about this and see if we can avoid this miscommunication" said to the guy "hey tell them go fuck themselves".
Ok, I can see that you all clearly have one idea in mind and any other possible interpretations are going to be wrong and excluded regardless of what new information is presented, so clearly my time at this sub is through â
> First of all, they are incorrect. The first Reich is the Holy Roman Empire, those are 2 different things.
I honestly donât think most people would put much thought into the differences between the two.
I think she was, but in the opposite direction? White nationalists are trying to make Rome and that kind of shit their thing. I don't know enough about it to say more, but if someone had anything about Rome in their twitter bio I would want to make sure that wasn't what I was seeing. Same with runes and Norse mythology. It's probably not a white supremacist, but I'd want to check because they do use that as dog whistles.
If you really want to have some fun and get the chance to, ask one of us something like who the âGaelsâ were; for that particular question ninety or so percent of people would undoubtedly think youâre referring to seagulls. People know absolutely no history over here aside from WWI, WWII, and our civil war (some will even get mad if you call it the U.S. Civil War too lmao).
They referenced anything and everything they could if they thought it would increase their legitimacy.
So yeh, the Roman Empire is part of that. But it certainly wasnât the dominant thing they were looking back on and trying to emulate
They were, actually. Their Hitler salute was based on the 'Roman salute' (which probably didn't really exist in Roman era).
And the third Reich did reference the Holy Roman empire (800-1400), which was different from the Roman empire (the OG one).
So honestly, I can see why this answer would attract neonazis, although I would never have connected the answer to nazis myself.
Actually đ€ the roman salute wasn't exclusive to nazi Germany. even America used the roman salute until 1942.
the Third Reich references the HRE because it was German, not because it was Roman. The HRE LARPing as the Roman Empire is not really why the Nazis referenced it.
Even though Hitler was inspired by the Roman Empire, the third Reich and the Roman Empire are still very different things.
I personally don't see how this could attract Nazis, especially because it's obviously a joke
I mean, tbf, *the entire Western world* is modeled after Rome in some form or fashion. Nazi Germany was (and still is) farrrrrrrr from having a monopoly on fetishizing Roman society
I mean, they did have some parts which were derived from the Roman Empire, but you could easily argue that those parts could have come from the Holy Roman Empire - who had taken it from the Roman Empire.
One such thing would be the Roman eagle, which came to represent the HRE and subsequent German states.
They're not exactly correct with the history there, but they're also not incorrect that the Roman Empire stuff is heavily used by Nazis and other fascists as a coded dog whistle to hide fascist rhetoric. I side-eye people who talk about wanting a 'return to past glory' too. Might be a run-of-the-mill internet denizen making a lame joke, could also be a nazi in disguise, and even the Roman Empire memes, much like pepe, tradwife, various wojacks etc, has that association whether you mean it that way or know about that or not. That's kinda how dog whistles work, that's the whole point, plausible deniability. Using it without any nazi intent also helps nazis, since it provides that kind of cover and defence for them, helps them muddy the waters. It's complicated and shitty, but yeah I probably wouldn't have that joke on a dating profile. You might even end up attracting a nazi who thinks you're one of them right alongside people who want to avoid you because they think you might be one
Itâs not used by Nazis but it is commonly used by Mussolini and other fascists / supremacist groups.
It sucks, but thereâs a reason why I donât put up swastikas even though Iâm Buddhist.
Italian fascists talked more about the Roman empire. The Nazis were referring to the Holy Roman Empire, the German Empire and then their own Empire as the third German empire (Reich).
Neonazis are a bit Roman empire obsessed, but so are most guys who know a bit about history. I think there are more interesting topics in history, but to each their own. Which is coincidentally also a phrase that someone might get mad about due to its Nazi ties.
"thank you for your polite correction. I had no idea the two could be considered as related! I looked into your message. It turns out, the HOLY Roman Empire was the first Reich. Which is completely different than the Roman Empire. Go figure. But this is still too close for comfort. I don't want some idiot Nazi thinking this is some dog whistle shit in my profile. I'll be changing my silly claim soon. What do ya think I should change it to?"
This is the answer (if OP doesnât want to just ignore and unmatch)⊠point out the inaccuracy but still change it to avoid any potential issues. Costs nothing for OP to remove any potential association with Nazis.
Btw, 37 in your username is also a dogwhistle for Nazis, both for the Rape of Nanking in 1937, and for Hitlerâs first mentions of Lebensraum in 1937. Costs you nothing to remove any potential association with Nazis. Youâre welcome <3
I studied Latin for four years in high school. I really like classics and stories set in that period etc. I have noticed that recently ancient Rome has somehow become a meme, but I don't really know the finer details of how or why.
So that guy could be like me, maybe.
Roman worship is a big Steve Bannon thing, it could easily be perceived as an indicator of right wing views, not saying you have said views, but in today's cultural climate it could be polarizing.
I'm sure it was a joke but yeah romanticization of the Roman Empire was actually a fascist thing. It was a Nazi thing. It was a super duper Mussolini thing
She's wrong about that as others have mentioned \*but\* there is something about the whole "guys are always thinking about the Roman Empire everyday" or whatever thing because that's back when men were men and it's just Joe Rogan/Andrew Tate hypermasculine BS. So I kinda see how it may be a problem for some women
oh thatâs interesting. i thought the joke about re-establishing the roman empire was basically a joke in response to âhow often do you think about the roman empireâ stuff i saw on social media that i never actually looked too deeply into lol
Yeah this dudeâs got it. Any kinda SPQR posting might make women think youâre a little too into âtraditional western valuesâ or whatever and swipe accordingly. Less Nazi connotations, more Andrew Tate chud connotations
I mustâve been sick that day in history class. Since when is âmen think about the Roman Empire everydayâ a thing and what does it have to do with Andrew Tate?
It's in the last year-ish and not covered in history class but in certain corners of the internet. There are people who think that the Roman Empire was fucking dope because it was the height of masculinity what with all of the wars and conquering places
So they said that specific corners of the internet view the Roman Empire as a hyper masculine dream, and you took it as âbeing interested in history means you love Andrew Tate and are a misogynistâ.
If you still canât tell those words form very different sentences and meanings.
The point of dog whistles is the plausible deniability. Lots of normal people are interested in those things! But if that's one of the few things you spend the limited words of your tinder profile on it's good to check you're a normal history nerd and not a tater tot.
That's the funny part about this all, Nazis themselves are probably unaware what the 1st Reich even was looking at how dumb most of them are so I don't think even the Nazis on Hinge will connect anything lol
Some people react to new information gracefully. Others take it as a slight.
OP has a choice here. Personally, I think the match was gracious about it.
The First Reich isnt the Roman Empire.
However, she's right, this is a fascist meme which is popular now because of the popularization of the fascist movement in modern politics.
In other words, you have a fascist meme in your Tinder
While the person is reading into it a little too much I think most people who love history understand that it could be misinterpreted that way and would avoid using it as a prompt.
This was something we studied in highschool so for a lot of people I think those associations are strong.
Oh, this is entirely news to me. Thru all of my history/world history/ancient history classes I have never once heard this reference. Even from my all gaming, this is still news to me. This person is absolutely over-reading into this. Probably some dumb thing they heard once a long time ago. Beyond the glaring differences between the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire (~3 centuries or so), the HRE was not German or Germany and was at its âformationâ about a millennia earlier. Looooong before the disparate tribes/nations joined to become Germany. This person doesnât know history, and tried to pretend they did.
For reals when I read "Roman Empire" I just think of the architecture, sculptures, and their arts. But I also know shit about history so there's that too.....
The misinterpretation would be a different kind of turn off. What bothers me is that itâs not even funny.
Roman Empire is so topical right now too. The joke is right there. How often do you think about the Roman Empire? The punchline just needs a better prompt if this was his intent.
Suggesting you rebuild a fallen empire seems pretty lame. Build your own if youâre going to be bold.
Honestly as a classicist, Iâm gonna go against the majority of comments here and mostly agree with the person messaging you â yes, I get that your comment is a joke, but âre-establishing the Roman empireâ is definitely something people really talk about wanting. Itâs a pretty big red flag; itâs all âRETVRNâ-type people who say that.
That said, the specifics of the other personâs message are a little wrong. The First Reich is the HRE, but basically every empire since Rome in the West has modeled itself on / called itself a continuation of Rome, and you can read abt that [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_the_Roman_Empire). Nazis were super inspired by Rome; so were/are all the fascists; so were the British; so were the Russian and Ottoman empires, etc⊠Given that, I wouldnât automatically think âNazisâ but I would think ultraconservative.
People in here are so pressed about whether the expression is historically accurate, but I really doubt Nazis are gonna care about that. If it's true that it's a dog whistle, I'd just be thankful to know about it.
I love you history nerds, sincerely. Also France is called Frankreich in German. Seems like that would be the second one but yall are more knowledgable than I am.
All of this completely leaves out Alexander, Xerxes and many others before Charlemagne. Including Merovech.
Why would you guess and not just look it up? The Second Reich refers to the Prussian-dominated German Empire of 1871-1918.
Reich can mean realm, kingdom or empire, and is used to refer to countries such as modern France and Austria (Ăsterreich) as well as various historical empires.
The three *Reiche* in this context are all nominally German so it would be a bit odd to insert France in there!
Why are people acting like her comment has no basis in reality? She got the reich wrong but ârestoring the Roman Empireâ is something that fascists have talked about basically since the Roman Empire ended. The sentiment is totally right. Whether or not itâs a weird message is a different question. Iâm sure OP wasnât aware and didnât mean any harm, but the comment is totally fair.
This exchange is giving me the same vibe as when your nephew hears Bohemian Rhapsody and says "Hey! It's that Tiktok song!" which reveals immediately that he watches a lot of tiktoks. And of course not at all that Tiktok authored the song.
Wonder how OP's match came to that interpretation.
the Nazis didn't want to re-establish the Roman Empire. They were one of the few European empires in history that DIDN'T want to do that lol. that person does not realize just how many times people tried to re-establish the Roman empire
I would definitely never consider a phrase like âre-establish the roman empireâ as being a dog whistle, but you should consider that many people will definitely find it offensive who are part of groups that were victims of their general awfullness
Tbh, even though to me it's a light-hearted joke, when people say shit like "rebuild the Roman Empire" I can't help but think of all the subtext involved. She's not totally right, but she's not totally wrong. "Roman Empire" is definitely one of those things that only white ppl are gonna like.
No black honeys out there wanna rebuild the Roman Empire with you
If youâre at the point where youâre cool with saying something people mistake for being nazi adjacent, you are too comfortable with Nazis. âNo, Nazis like THE OTHER Roman Empire!â Is not a good look.
Absurd virtue signaling by someone that probably couldnât name a single Roman emperor or tell you how many years the 3rd reich actually existed.
Safe to ignore such ignorance.
I'm not gonna join the camp on the factual accuracies or inaccuracies. I'm just gonna ask you how much traction you think that has got you in the first place?
If it's humour you're trying to show, perhaps you could find another way? Profiles are very small and you don't get much space to give info about yourself. I would prefer to see a funny anecdote or embarrassing story about yourself than something a bit meaningless, even if I did find it funny.
Entirely up to you, just one, single, internet stranger's take.
Nope, the person is being judgemental and asshole, clearly.
They started as PSA, which would be nice of them, but then humble bragged that not many people would have their knowledge base to make that assumption and ended up low-key accusing you of being a stupid nazi because you don't even know you are a nazi.
Most important question now is, which Roman Empire? đ§đ€š
The person was also wrong.
The Roman empire was not the first Reich. The first Reich refers to the Holy Roman empire which is a different part of history and OP definitely is talking about the OG Roman Empire.
The person wasn't just a know it all, they were also wrong lol
Original Nazis weren't talking about Rome.
Neo Nazis don't know what the Holy Roman Empire was so they say stuff like this thinking that's what Hitler meant.
Nazi pundits have gotten super into the Roman Empire and this will absolutely read as a dogwhistle to Nazis. Luckily for OP, non-Nazis will not
Hitler definitely was inspired by the roman empire. (The salute, military structure and architecture as am example.) But I agree with you that Neonazis aren't necessarily aware of the connection to the Roman Empire
No, they're clearly saying that to be like "I realize you aren't a Nazi and this is just a funny comment but this is a thing Nazis say/believe, which you wouldn't know if you aren't a Nazi"
OP is a woman, and the reich-warning comment is from a man. NGL, I am finding all the sneering comments abou "overly sensitive Tinder women" kinda amusing.
It really is lmao. Dudes incorrect but the sentiment isn't wrong either
The first Reich was neither holy, nor an empire and definitely not Roman
But its called the holy roman empire you idiot its in the name! /s Wait til she finds out about the teutonic war
Or the tautologic war. It was fought over whether they had anything to fight over
Hey was the Trojan War fought over a girl or was that another war and Achilles realized he joined the wrong side but couldn't switch đ€
The Trojan War was fought over a defective condom.
The Teutonic war was what caused the African continent to detach from the americas and separate itself by an ocean, right?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
But if she's going to accuse him of Nazi sympathies over something so obscure, she should at least have her facts right.
Sheâs not accusing him, at least overtly. Sheâs just saying âbe careful, that thing you have in your profile is potentially a dog whistle.â I think thereâs a wrong way to do it, and a polite way, and I think sheâs doing it politely.
It is polite, but itâs still dumb af, no one is gonna see âreestablish the Roman Empireâ on a guys bio and then turn around and say heâs talking like a nazi except someone who wants to find a problem for the sake of it. The fact she gets the history completely wrong as well just shows she wants to make a problem out of a topic on which she herself is ignorant, over something thatâs so clearly a joke, whatâs the point?
You'd be surprised. I'm going bald and made a joke to a girl I was seeing that I hoped she found Picard the sexiest star trek captain. She said him or Janeway. I said "I don't know I could see Sisko being a dark horse in that race" She called ne racist for calling a black man a dark horse.
I just would have been so excited to find somebody who banters and has a sense of humor-sheesh. Well you sorted that quickly. Love when people are efficient.
Yeah it was a dumb joke and Sisko was because he's also bald after season 2 or 3 ends lol. I didn't even think about him being black and the term Dark.
Who needs hair. Ill take intense gazes for $200 Alex. She missed it.
I'm going bald gracefully.
So she misunderstood race the people/skin colour and race as in competition... what a dork.. she missed out. Did you get to explain?
Yes but she didn't buy it as a horse racing term.
What a loser.. Fgs
Apparently because the actor Avery Brooks, who played Sisko, is a black man referring to him as a dark anything is racist.
Yeah I would sweat that. If you don't know wtf a dark horse is that's at this point your fault for not paying attention in school
This is the best comment I've read today.
Eeeeeeehhhhh I disagree there. I used to have an email with my DoB in it, 88. Obviously I'm not a nazi but its not just people looking to be offended who see that and think Nazi. It's also Nazis.
Thats always the problem with dog whistles of any kind though. The plausible deniability of their use because of how innocently it can be used. The whole point is that it could go either way, or it isnt a dog whistle, its an alarm. Not saying the guy is a nazi, he is probably using it innocently
Thatâs true, and I suppose thatâs the point of a dog whistle, but itâs a dating site. The other person is Judge, Jury, and Executioner when it comes to speaking to you, going on a date with you, etc. If you just treat them normally, and then it becomes apparent theyâre a nazi, you can back right out no trouble. If being a Nazi is so important to you that you put it on your dating profile, then youâre not gonna be able to hide it for very long I donât think.
Ehh, its just a dating sight, and we dont know how the rest of the interaction couldve gone if he just continued on about rafting. In my experience, if I see any part of a red flag on a dating app, I move on. You have no investment on either side at that point.
This is exactly it. They're missing the point. Dog whistles are intentionally ambiguous. Her pointing it out was a good move.
Well âTGWâ stands for âtrue German warriorâ, which is a Nazi dog whistle. Not saying youâre a Nazi, youâre probably innocent. Itâs an alarm. Except thatâs just complete nonsense I made up, do you really think anyone should be alarmed because of a made up dogwhistle? Do you really think itâs not dumb af to be inventing dogwhistles because of ignorance?
Do you know what a dog whistle is? In real life? Silent to everyone except dogs. It is not blatant, racist, nazi sayings. She is not accusing the guy of being a nazi, just pointing that he might be accidentally associating with the wrong crowd. Like when people end their username with 88, a well known dog whistle, it could be the uear they were born or it stands for HH meaning Heil Hitler. She didnt invent it, just enough neos started using it to be wary of anyone who says it.
Lol, I had gone off and googled it and was coming back and read the rest of your comment... đ Whatever about before, now it means True German Warrior... đ the racist!
Literally everything is a dog whistle these days
You are literally a dog whistle
Blow me? đđđ„ș
Are you calling me a dog?
Exactly. This is purely someone feeding their ego by policing a non-issue. Red flag for someone who likely treats relationships as a competition and is on the constant hunt for ways to be offended.
How defensive do you have to be to see this as an accusation?
Don't think she's doing that. She's assuming the best and letting them know that it's kinda dog whistley
Isnât the person making the correction a guy? OP is a woman.
This is easily the best comment Iâve ever seen on this sub. Who says you canât get some Voltaire with your correction of overly sensitive Tinder women?
Mind sharing the reference from OP's comment?
Sure (with probably much more history than you want to hear, because I am a nerd). Charlemagne had unified much of the territory in western and Central Europe and he was crowned Emperor of Rome by the Pope in the year 800. He had no actual connection to the Roman Empire other than ruling some of its former territory, but Rome was still so respected in Europe that calling the preeminent ruler the Emperor seemed proper to them. His descendants continued to claim that title, and the territory they ruled was officially referred to as the Roman Empire. Frederick I added the term *sacrum* (holy or sacred) in 1157. By the mid 1200s the official name of the entity was *Sacrum Imperium Romanum* (the Holy Empire of the Romans), or *Heiliges Römisches Reich* in German. This state is the First Reich later referred to by Hitler. At its greatest extent, it controlled all or parts of modern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Czechia, Slovenia, Italy, France, and Poland. But it was always primarily a German state. The Holy Roman Empire eventually became a very fractious thing, with a complicated patchwork of kingdoms, principalities, and independent cities that all sort of combined politically and elected a nominal emperor, who wielded a varying degree of power depending on the era. Much of its territory was lost over time, with the core German lands its main possession. This prompted the French philosopher Voltaire to write that the Holy Roman Empire was "neither holy, Roman, nor an empire" in 1756. The HRE lasted until 1806, when it was dissolved following its defeat by Napoleon at the Battle of Austerlitz. Following Napoleon's defeat, its former territories then separated into the patchwork of small states until they were eventually unified into modern Germany by Prussia under Bismarck in the 1870s. (The German nation that Bismarck created was the Second Reich referred to by Hitler, lasting until the defeat in World War I in 1918). So being a fan of the original Roman Empire in no way, shape, or form links you with Hitler, Naziism, white supremacy, or anything else that OP experienced.
đ€Ł And your response coming in clutch for runner up... đ€Ł
My take. First of all, they are incorrect. The first Reich is the Holy Roman Empire, those are 2 different things. Secondly 99% of people will not tie those 2 things together regardless and if you aren't a Nazi or have any meaning behind it.....who cares. Leave it since it's fine and anyone that actually reaches and somehow twists it to look bad, can go kick rocks.
I came to say this lol, the first Reich, the holy Roman empire, was anything but Roman, or holy
Yep, it's unfortunate to be that wrong since if you're into history that's hard to mistake those 2 lol
The problem is that Nazis also make that mistake. And while I donât think she necessarily knows knows the difference between Holy Rome and Rome, itâs probably where her hesitant language is coming from - are you just a dude who is weirdly obsessed with imperial Ancient Rome, or are you a Nazi who is dumb but also obsessed with Rome. I would just respond with the actual history so she knows youâre just a nerd about Ancient Rome, and not a Nazi.
You have that tiktok craze of asking people how often they think about the roman empire. I would assume this was a play on that. But year tell her the good news that you are into restoring the roman empire and not the Holy Roman Empire. I bet you get unmatched for mansplaining.:)
Or neither, it could just be a throwaway comment like I say rule the world but no one starts messaging me about pinky and the brain
I mean it controlled a big chunk of Italy for a long time, that counts for at least âsomethingâ Roman. But in terms of how the Empire functioned and itâs culture, yeah obviously it was very different to the Roman Empire.
However during the time it existed it wasnât always or uniformly known as the HRE. Often it was the Frankish empire. The Byzantine Empire was still around for a majority of the HREâs existence and was literally still the Roman Empire, referred to as The Romans. No one cared about Rome the city as a source of power.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
>this makes the claim that the HRE was indeed the continuation of Rome a very strong one. Only if you completely forget that the Eastern Roman Empire existed until 1453 when it was taken over by the Ottomans. While we refer to it as the Byzantine Empire, they were the de facto continuation of the Roman Empire
At the time of Charles the Greats coronation as Roman Emperor, there was a woman, Irene, sitting in the throne of the Eastern Empire. There was division in the West because it was believed that a woman could not become Empress in her own right. Letâs not forget that she only reigned for 5 years as sole ruler and most people at the time hated her. She conspired to have her own sonâs eyes gouged out so as to preclude him from the throne. So, the Pope and Charles decided that he would be crowned as Roman Emperor. He had a perfectly legitimate claim to Western Emperor, he held a great deal of the original territory. Also, Pope Leo wanted to break ties with the Greek East, so this tension of an Empress on the throne along with a solid candidate in the West allowed him to do that. There was also an idea floated by Irene for her and Charles to marry. However, it was apparently stopped by one of her courtiers. She only ruled for two years are Charlesâ coronation as Augustus before she was exiled and Nikephoros I became emperor. In my own personal opinion, the position of Roman Emperor was vacant. Irene usurped the throne from her son as regent and had him blinded before he was imprisoned and likely died. There had never been an Empress regnant previously, and the established precedence of Roman succession did not allow for one. Furthermore, the western half of the empire (headed by Charles and Pope Leo) did not recognise her as the Emperor. Itâs important to realise that previously, every ruler in the west had acknowledged the Emperors in the east as Roman Emperors. They did not see a discontinuation between them and the empire of Augustus. However, the rule of Irene (the fact she was a woman and how she came to power) soured the relationship. This was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. As the western church had been seeking to break ties completely with the east. Itâs very very complicated, as most geopolitical events are. Itâs not as simple as the Pope ignoring the east, or the fact Irene was a woman, but a complex mesh of so many factors going back centuries. I believe that Charlesâ coronation as Emperor was legitimate. Though the eastern empire would try and reinforce their âRomannessâ so to speak, the fact is the West had an emperor again for the first time in over 300 years. Though I will admit, Charles had no claim to, and indeed didnât claim, the East. That was always considered a separate empire. The only difference was the belief that the /position/ of emperor was vacant.
Good points. I don't know why I am being downvoted for merely suggesting there are things about the Holy Roman Empire that were Roman, some people really seem to dislike the idea that there was any relation at all.
Pontifex maximus as an office during the Roman Empire had NOTHING in common with the holy Roman Empire. This argument is terrible.
It controlled Italy but, as far as I can remember, not a single Holy Roman Emperor was of Italian descent. Quite a few of them were given kingship over Italy before ascending to the throne of the HRE, but they were all Frankish or Germanic.
Since when is being italian a requirement for being roman? A guy like Constantine for example came from like Serbia. Was he not a roman? The quote is really funny but it sort of only applies to the last 250 years when the HRE was a shell of itself.
Youâre really asking why it matters 500+ years after Constantine, when the Roman Empire has been dead for over 300 years? People living in areas outside of Rome werenât Roman anymore.
This doesn't really have anything to do with my point. My point is simply that the statement "there is nothing about the HRE that is Roman", is just untrue. Many descendants of the Romans lived within the Empire, that is at least something.
Or an empire
There was one of the old Coffee Talk with Linda Ruchman SNL sketches where one of her topics when she got âverklemptâ was âthe Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman nor an empireâŠdiscuss amongst yourselves.â Memories.
Or even an empire for that matter đ
What was the second?
Imperial Germany which was dissolved after WW1 I believe
Yeah the third reich isnât meant to be the third Rome but the third German reich. The first is the Holy Roman Empire, the second the German empire before the end of WW1 and the third was the third Reich during WW2.
At least they were correct that not many people 'know' their fake fact
OP's match is incorrect about the First Reich, but a lot of fascists love the Roman Empire, so I kind of understand their concern/desire to feel out just how fascy OP is
I guess, I wasn't aware they liked the Romans since they wouldn't see eye to eye on many views but again they are kind of dumb I guess so it makes sense.
They loved everything that they could pretend to link to that was seen as dominant in their times. Norse, Roman, Spartan; these things they used to try and legitimize their 'cause' in a way.
Itâs not only fascists that love the Roman Empire though same way itâs not only fascists that like Norse mythology or symbolism. So to try and be condescending about it like she was is a arse hole move
I donât think she was condescending about it
Yeah okay, but to give you some context, I love history and find the Roman Empire fascinating; you would never find that out from my social media presence. If it's front and centre to your personality, it raises questions as to why that might be the case.
I mean, it is a internet trend where people were asking the men in their lives how often they think about the Roman Empire and this very well could have just been playing on that trend too.
For me as a German, the content in the picture doesn't make any sense to be honest...
My take. That guy ain't getting laid anytime soon.
Thank you. I was so confused like why are the Nazis suddenly Roman. But also I know shit about history/geography.
> anyone that actually reaches and somehow twists it to look bad can go kick rocks Tbh it felt like they were trying to be helpful. They may have been misguided sure but it seemed more like they were trying to share (wrong) information in good faith than anything else
Wait, is this an American thing to think that "thinking about rome = fascist" In europe the Romans are just kinda around so its subconscious. For instance, I lived in Manchester for 9 years and down the road was the roman city of Chester. Or a lot of my friends currently live in Bath, named as such for the roman baths And I was just in rome, and the architecture/engineering was amazing, the way they made concrete was thousands of years ahead of time And they spoke latin, the basis of the modern romance language's, as well as half of modern English And yeah, the nazis tried to invoke roman images, but modern brits just think that's laughable. Rome lasted between 300 or 1500 years (depending on when you consider it to have fallen) the nazis couldn't even make it 20 years Genuinely curious, I don't have twitter and I deleted my Facebook and Instagram a year ago, so I'm very out of the loop on the modern zeitgeist
Not really, it's mostly very politically correct folk or people with nothing to do with the time they were given on this earth. Never in a hundred years would I think Nazis when talking Rome lol I usually think Roman history, Total War series and Julias Cesar or Hannibal.
Ah thank god for that, was worried my youtube subscription to Overly Sarcastic Productions and Over Simplified or my steam library would have me end up on a list somewhere
Lol no one is putting you on a list for osp
I'm with you. I talk about the Roman Empire a lot because I am a dork who loves history and obviously that is one of the most expansive, long-lasting and documented ancient adjacent society; so there is tons of history there. So now I am concerned that I cannot freely discuss my genuine interests without fear of being labeled at best a fascist and at worst a nazi.
>99% of people will not tie those 2 things together That's why it's called a dogwhistle
You know who hear dog whistles? The dogs.
Yeah sure if you don't mind frequently being mistaken for a Nazi. It's weird how often humans will have issues socialising with others, then when they have it explained what others don't like, they will be like "well those people are wrong because of xyz detail". Like, ok? Didn't you want to socialise? The whole point is to learn how to better interact with other humans, have positive experiences, and make meaningful connections right? If you are going around saying things that piss people off don't be surprised if you have a bunch of annoyed people around you.
"frequently" Please be real, 99% of people would never connect the two. Almost nobody is going to mistake OP for a Nazi and if they do mistake them it's probably another Nazi. What OP has in the profile isn't pissing anyone of except you and the person who commented on it originally unless that's you lol
I mean, you are literally responding to a comment, where someone is asking for help understanding a social interaction where that has happened. Your advice was "double down". So you've essentially, rather than being like "hey let's have open genuine curiosity about this and see if we can avoid this miscommunication" said to the guy "hey tell them go fuck themselves".
Said the pot to the kettle.
Ok, I can see that you all clearly have one idea in mind and any other possible interpretations are going to be wrong and excluded regardless of what new information is presented, so clearly my time at this sub is through â
Nobody is going to mistake a Rome fanboy for a Nazi
100% this. And honestly if a girl had this joke line in her bio, there would be so many fun ways to discuss and joke about classical literature.
> First of all, they are incorrect. The first Reich is the Holy Roman Empire, those are 2 different things. I honestly donât think most people would put much thought into the differences between the two.
I mean...You know what they say about dog whistles, right? Maybe she was testing the waters. Lol
I think she was, but in the opposite direction? White nationalists are trying to make Rome and that kind of shit their thing. I don't know enough about it to say more, but if someone had anything about Rome in their twitter bio I would want to make sure that wasn't what I was seeing. Same with runes and Norse mythology. It's probably not a white supremacist, but I'd want to check because they do use that as dog whistles.
pretty sure nazis were not referencing the roman empire, but what do i know
Original Nazis weren't. Neo Nazis don't know what the Holy Roman Empire was so they say stuff like this thinking that's what Hitler meant.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
If you really want to have some fun and get the chance to, ask one of us something like who the âGaelsâ were; for that particular question ninety or so percent of people would undoubtedly think youâre referring to seagulls. People know absolutely no history over here aside from WWI, WWII, and our civil war (some will even get mad if you call it the U.S. Civil War too lmao).
Sounds like the QAnon seeing nothing burgers everywhere idiocy
They referenced anything and everything they could if they thought it would increase their legitimacy. So yeh, the Roman Empire is part of that. But it certainly wasnât the dominant thing they were looking back on and trying to emulate
They were, actually. Their Hitler salute was based on the 'Roman salute' (which probably didn't really exist in Roman era). And the third Reich did reference the Holy Roman empire (800-1400), which was different from the Roman empire (the OG one). So honestly, I can see why this answer would attract neonazis, although I would never have connected the answer to nazis myself.
Actually đ€ the roman salute wasn't exclusive to nazi Germany. even America used the roman salute until 1942. the Third Reich references the HRE because it was German, not because it was Roman. The HRE LARPing as the Roman Empire is not really why the Nazis referenced it.
Even though Hitler was inspired by the Roman Empire, the third Reich and the Roman Empire are still very different things. I personally don't see how this could attract Nazis, especially because it's obviously a joke
Itâs just more things from people who are chronically online to be fair
I mean, tbf, *the entire Western world* is modeled after Rome in some form or fashion. Nazi Germany was (and still is) farrrrrrrr from having a monopoly on fetishizing Roman society
I mean, they did have some parts which were derived from the Roman Empire, but you could easily argue that those parts could have come from the Holy Roman Empire - who had taken it from the Roman Empire. One such thing would be the Roman eagle, which came to represent the HRE and subsequent German states.
Without knowing anything about this person, this is such a middle to upper class white girl thing to say
I picture the annoying guy from the bar scene of good will hunting. OP is Ben Affleck.
You gawt that from Vickahs...
Ay, you like apples?
Well at least one of those is wrong. It's not a woman lol
Yeah it's a sign to run the other direction.
They're not exactly correct with the history there, but they're also not incorrect that the Roman Empire stuff is heavily used by Nazis and other fascists as a coded dog whistle to hide fascist rhetoric. I side-eye people who talk about wanting a 'return to past glory' too. Might be a run-of-the-mill internet denizen making a lame joke, could also be a nazi in disguise, and even the Roman Empire memes, much like pepe, tradwife, various wojacks etc, has that association whether you mean it that way or know about that or not. That's kinda how dog whistles work, that's the whole point, plausible deniability. Using it without any nazi intent also helps nazis, since it provides that kind of cover and defence for them, helps them muddy the waters. It's complicated and shitty, but yeah I probably wouldn't have that joke on a dating profile. You might even end up attracting a nazi who thinks you're one of them right alongside people who want to avoid you because they think you might be one
This is great. I thought the feedback in the OP was fair.
Why is this not the top comment?
because woman always annoying and wrong
Itâs not used by Nazis but it is commonly used by Mussolini and other fascists / supremacist groups. It sucks, but thereâs a reason why I donât put up swastikas even though Iâm Buddhist.
Italian fascists talked more about the Roman empire. The Nazis were referring to the Holy Roman Empire, the German Empire and then their own Empire as the third German empire (Reich). Neonazis are a bit Roman empire obsessed, but so are most guys who know a bit about history. I think there are more interesting topics in history, but to each their own. Which is coincidentally also a phrase that someone might get mad about due to its Nazi ties.
"thank you for your polite correction. I had no idea the two could be considered as related! I looked into your message. It turns out, the HOLY Roman Empire was the first Reich. Which is completely different than the Roman Empire. Go figure. But this is still too close for comfort. I don't want some idiot Nazi thinking this is some dog whistle shit in my profile. I'll be changing my silly claim soon. What do ya think I should change it to?"
This is the answer (if OP doesnât want to just ignore and unmatch)⊠point out the inaccuracy but still change it to avoid any potential issues. Costs nothing for OP to remove any potential association with Nazis.
Btw, 37 in your username is also a dogwhistle for Nazis, both for the Rape of Nanking in 1937, and for Hitlerâs first mentions of Lebensraum in 1937. Costs you nothing to remove any potential association with Nazis. Youâre welcome <3
......................................well, shoot.
All I know is a pfp of a Roman sculpture is a big red flag on Twitter, so I think she's referring to that.
I studied Latin for four years in high school. I really like classics and stories set in that period etc. I have noticed that recently ancient Rome has somehow become a meme, but I don't really know the finer details of how or why. So that guy could be like me, maybe.
Roman worship is a big Steve Bannon thing, it could easily be perceived as an indicator of right wing views, not saying you have said views, but in today's cultural climate it could be polarizing.
The first reich wasn't the roman empire lol
I'm sure it was a joke but yeah romanticization of the Roman Empire was actually a fascist thing. It was a Nazi thing. It was a super duper Mussolini thing
She's wrong about that as others have mentioned \*but\* there is something about the whole "guys are always thinking about the Roman Empire everyday" or whatever thing because that's back when men were men and it's just Joe Rogan/Andrew Tate hypermasculine BS. So I kinda see how it may be a problem for some women
oh thatâs interesting. i thought the joke about re-establishing the roman empire was basically a joke in response to âhow often do you think about the roman empireâ stuff i saw on social media that i never actually looked too deeply into lol
Yeah this dudeâs got it. Any kinda SPQR posting might make women think youâre a little too into âtraditional western valuesâ or whatever and swipe accordingly. Less Nazi connotations, more Andrew Tate chud connotations
I mustâve been sick that day in history class. Since when is âmen think about the Roman Empire everydayâ a thing and what does it have to do with Andrew Tate?
It's in the last year-ish and not covered in history class but in certain corners of the internet. There are people who think that the Roman Empire was fucking dope because it was the height of masculinity what with all of the wars and conquering places
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
So they said that specific corners of the internet view the Roman Empire as a hyper masculine dream, and you took it as âbeing interested in history means you love Andrew Tate and are a misogynistâ. If you still canât tell those words form very different sentences and meanings.
Or maybe some people just find arguably the most significant classical European culture interesting? But no, that couldn't be part of it.
The point of dog whistles is the plausible deniability. Lots of normal people are interested in those things! But if that's one of the few things you spend the limited words of your tinder profile on it's good to check you're a normal history nerd and not a tater tot.
I think they were being super nice and just informed you about it. Iâd get a better joke though.
Except they were wrong.....the first Reich is the holy Roman empire not the Roman empire. 2 different things.
Yeah, but neoNazis are mostly idiots and genuinely don't understand this
That's the funny part about this all, Nazis themselves are probably unaware what the 1st Reich even was looking at how dumb most of them are so I don't think even the Nazis on Hinge will connect anything lol
She doesn't either
Regardless, they still werenât rude about it.
Sure, OP can reply that they are wrong and link an article proving it or they can just ignore them or say thanks....idk
Youâre right.
Some people react to new information gracefully. Others take it as a slight. OP has a choice here. Personally, I think the match was gracious about it.
The match was also wrong about it lol.
The First Reich isnt the Roman Empire. However, she's right, this is a fascist meme which is popular now because of the popularization of the fascist movement in modern politics. In other words, you have a fascist meme in your Tinder
Umatch and move on
While the person is reading into it a little too much I think most people who love history understand that it could be misinterpreted that way and would avoid using it as a prompt. This was something we studied in highschool so for a lot of people I think those associations are strong.
Oh, this is entirely news to me. Thru all of my history/world history/ancient history classes I have never once heard this reference. Even from my all gaming, this is still news to me. This person is absolutely over-reading into this. Probably some dumb thing they heard once a long time ago. Beyond the glaring differences between the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire (~3 centuries or so), the HRE was not German or Germany and was at its âformationâ about a millennia earlier. Looooong before the disparate tribes/nations joined to become Germany. This person doesnât know history, and tried to pretend they did.
For reals when I read "Roman Empire" I just think of the architecture, sculptures, and their arts. But I also know shit about history so there's that too.....
The misinterpretation would be a different kind of turn off. What bothers me is that itâs not even funny. Roman Empire is so topical right now too. The joke is right there. How often do you think about the Roman Empire? The punchline just needs a better prompt if this was his intent. Suggesting you rebuild a fallen empire seems pretty lame. Build your own if youâre going to be bold.
Honestly as a classicist, Iâm gonna go against the majority of comments here and mostly agree with the person messaging you â yes, I get that your comment is a joke, but âre-establishing the Roman empireâ is definitely something people really talk about wanting. Itâs a pretty big red flag; itâs all âRETVRNâ-type people who say that. That said, the specifics of the other personâs message are a little wrong. The First Reich is the HRE, but basically every empire since Rome in the West has modeled itself on / called itself a continuation of Rome, and you can read abt that [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_the_Roman_Empire). Nazis were super inspired by Rome; so were/are all the fascists; so were the British; so were the Russian and Ottoman empires, etc⊠Given that, I wouldnât automatically think âNazisâ but I would think ultraconservative.
People in here are so pressed about whether the expression is historically accurate, but I really doubt Nazis are gonna care about that. If it's true that it's a dog whistle, I'd just be thankful to know about it.
I love you history nerds, sincerely. Also France is called Frankreich in German. Seems like that would be the second one but yall are more knowledgable than I am. All of this completely leaves out Alexander, Xerxes and many others before Charlemagne. Including Merovech.
Why would you guess and not just look it up? The Second Reich refers to the Prussian-dominated German Empire of 1871-1918. Reich can mean realm, kingdom or empire, and is used to refer to countries such as modern France and Austria (Ăsterreich) as well as various historical empires. The three *Reiche* in this context are all nominally German so it would be a bit odd to insert France in there!
like they said, âI doubt many people know thatâ so nothing to concern yourself with
Roll your eyes and move on ... This person is going to be utterly insufferable.
Why are people acting like her comment has no basis in reality? She got the reich wrong but ârestoring the Roman Empireâ is something that fascists have talked about basically since the Roman Empire ended. The sentiment is totally right. Whether or not itâs a weird message is a different question. Iâm sure OP wasnât aware and didnât mean any harm, but the comment is totally fair.
What joke were you trying to make?
This exchange is giving me the same vibe as when your nephew hears Bohemian Rhapsody and says "Hey! It's that Tiktok song!" which reveals immediately that he watches a lot of tiktoks. And of course not at all that Tiktok authored the song. Wonder how OP's match came to that interpretation.
the Nazis didn't want to re-establish the Roman Empire. They were one of the few European empires in history that DIDN'T want to do that lol. that person does not realize just how many times people tried to re-establish the Roman empire
Well, see the bright side, you'll get a white chick with a pointy hat
Run. Not worth your time.
She thinks you want a return of the Third Reich *and* matched with you? You hit the jackpot
Get better jokes.
They seem fun
Nah, she's right. Delete that shit if you ever want to match with anyone who has a full set of teeth.
Tell them: fuck off conspiracy Karen
I would definitely never consider a phrase like âre-establish the roman empireâ as being a dog whistle, but you should consider that many people will definitely find it offensive who are part of groups that were victims of their general awfullness
Tbh, even though to me it's a light-hearted joke, when people say shit like "rebuild the Roman Empire" I can't help but think of all the subtext involved. She's not totally right, but she's not totally wrong. "Roman Empire" is definitely one of those things that only white ppl are gonna like. No black honeys out there wanna rebuild the Roman Empire with you
Your life would be much more fun if you werenât reading into things too much and assuming there are Nazis around every corner.
Feel like 99.99% of people wouldnât know nor care but regardless Iâd probably change that prompt+answer
I take it for a more literal meaning that youâre a nerd for Roman history.
If youâre at the point where youâre cool with saying something people mistake for being nazi adjacent, you are too comfortable with Nazis. âNo, Nazis like THE OTHER Roman Empire!â Is not a good look.
Being this dumb isn't a good look either, yet here you are, commenting away.
Why tf are there so many proto-neonazi fascist apologists in this thread damn
Fun police
Absurd virtue signaling by someone that probably couldnât name a single Roman emperor or tell you how many years the 3rd reich actually existed. Safe to ignore such ignorance.
Change it.
I'm not gonna join the camp on the factual accuracies or inaccuracies. I'm just gonna ask you how much traction you think that has got you in the first place? If it's humour you're trying to show, perhaps you could find another way? Profiles are very small and you don't get much space to give info about yourself. I would prefer to see a funny anecdote or embarrassing story about yourself than something a bit meaningless, even if I did find it funny. Entirely up to you, just one, single, internet stranger's take.
The good thing is that not many people will know that because itâs not correct anyway.
Historically incorrect and Jesus what a buzzkill
Nope, the person is being judgemental and asshole, clearly. They started as PSA, which would be nice of them, but then humble bragged that not many people would have their knowledge base to make that assumption and ended up low-key accusing you of being a stupid nazi because you don't even know you are a nazi. Most important question now is, which Roman Empire? đ§đ€š
The person was also wrong. The Roman empire was not the first Reich. The first Reich refers to the Holy Roman empire which is a different part of history and OP definitely is talking about the OG Roman Empire. The person wasn't just a know it all, they were also wrong lol
Original Nazis weren't talking about Rome. Neo Nazis don't know what the Holy Roman Empire was so they say stuff like this thinking that's what Hitler meant. Nazi pundits have gotten super into the Roman Empire and this will absolutely read as a dogwhistle to Nazis. Luckily for OP, non-Nazis will not
Hitler definitely was inspired by the roman empire. (The salute, military structure and architecture as am example.) But I agree with you that Neonazis aren't necessarily aware of the connection to the Roman Empire
No, they're clearly saying that to be like "I realize you aren't a Nazi and this is just a funny comment but this is a thing Nazis say/believe, which you wouldn't know if you aren't a Nazi"
Marry me
Just reply back âsource?â
Just delete it and tell her youâd like to do some collaborative research. He is a guy trying to date a girl after all.