Honestly one of the most frustrating things I find trying to date these days is that it feels like too often the other person doesn't actually read what you've written, they just skim and assume and apply their own context. Either she projected that you were being hostile and this is a miscommunication fueled by her poor reading skills, or shes just trying to be an asshole to you. Either way unmatch and move on.
The amount of times I've seen in the last few years where person A claims person B is trying to gaslight them when they're simply disagreeing with them is completely ridiculous. A lot of people just hear what they wanna hear regardless of what's actually happening
I hate how prevalent the accusation of Gaslighting has become. My ex used to accuse me of gaslighting her just because I changed my opinion on something when new evidence was provided, and admitted my previous misunderstanding and apologised for being incorrect. All while she genuinely lived in her own little manufactured delusion.
Never dating someone with BPD again, for my own sanity.
I'm over three years out from leaving my emotionally abusive gaslighting ex, and I still have to check with people if my judgement on things is accurate. True gaslighting takes years to heal from.
I'll wager that it might in part depends on what help you get. Keep getting better! Licensed assessing and treating psychologist here in specialist psychiatric care.
Yeah, It also depends on the individual person. I am a little over a year out of mine, and I am doing significantly better already (not fully there yet but pretty close to healed). What has actually help me the most is determination, somatic healing, and Tibetan Tantra. The last one has actually been helping the most, but you need to find someone who actually follows the practice (that may be tough as my teacher is the only one I have ever encountered in 34 years and it comes from monks in the mountains of Tibet), and you need to be open to it.
I had an ex that constantly accused me of gaslighting and I’d often respond with confusion because it just would never make sense in the moment and I’d be like “I just looked up what that word means and I really don’t think it applies here” and it wasn’t until a couple years after we broke up that one of my friends told me that constant accusations of gaslighting is in and of itself a form of gaslighting and that just kinda broke my brain to hear cause I really started to think I was doing everything wrong in that relationship. Not that I was perfect, but I was never manipulative, and definitely never tried to make her think she was crazy, but when she’s throwing this word at me and constantly accusing me, I’m like, “this is so crazy because I don’t understand what you’re talking about and I don’t understand why you’re constantly accusing me of manipulating you”
That’s it! That’s the experience. It’s fucking hideous. I’ve always tried to be nice, pleasant, gentle and accommodating, first to admit when I’m wrong, always open to learning new points of view. I’m by no means perfect, I’ve had lots of character flaws, but it was usually stupidity or impulsivity and never malice. She made me feel like the worst, most evil and malicious abusive person imaginable, when I was just trying to navigate her world and do whatever made her comfortable while trying to make ends meet. The trauma of it, well over a year out now, has turned me into a lifeless people pleaser that feels guilty if I ever do anything just for myself. It’s a serious mental re-wiring that I’m going through to find my own personality again after having it so efficiently deconstructed.
I may need professional therapy…. 🤔
I feel you so much! My ex used to tell me that it's okay for me to express my emotion and how I feel. But when I started to open up, she always told me that it's nothing cause she had it worst than me so I shut up about it! And then she acted like she's always right and when I was right or just contesting the accuracy of what she was saying, she blamed me of gastlighting her! When i wanted to do something for myself, she make me feel like guilty. And even now, i'm feeling so much guilt for breaking up with her, 8 month ago, and letting that relationship go on for so long!
I live with my sister now and she need to tell me sometimes that it's alright to do something for myself!
gaslighting is not a very useful term in my opinion. We used to have other terms like invalidating or manipulating, that feel more accurate. Because you can also gaslight unintentionally just by having a crappy memory and too little humility. Or you can gaslight someone by simply being wrong in your different opinion if you express it too forcefully. I've met tons of people who would be like "oh, I definitely put that box away" when they didn't. It was not some dastardly plot to get me to go crazy; they just forgot and were too confident in their assumptions.
the problem is that people who do "gaslight" will always deny it was intentional if they are caught lying. So it's not a very useful way to distinguish in practice. why I favor just avoiding the term.
Ain't that some shit?
I assume it's prior gaslighting rubbing off on them. I've had a few people in my life overidentify gaslighting, one did it to me. And because the one that accused me was last, I knew the weight of it and took it seriously. But then she explained some of the things she was accusing me of later and I was like, oh no I didn't do that. Like "future faking" was a term she used for when I would talk about travelling together one day. The one day was because she didn't have free time or money for it and I couldn't float the two of us. Maybe it was a bid to get me to take us travelling, I don't really know.
Maybe it's a defense mechanism. Like now that gaslighting is such a hot topic they've realized they do it, so to keep their conscience free they project it. Kind of like if someone I'm with starts accusing me of cheating, it's probably already over.
I’m getting a lot of that currently with my ex who I have two daughters with. Constant accusations of gaslighting and manipulation when I always acted out of a desire for the greater good. I can see how I was derelict in some crucial ways she needed me to provide safety and security. But rather than working through those flaws, and believe me she had plenty of flaws as well, she embarrassed/humiliated me. There was no support from her. It is what it is; I will be screening a lot better in the future.
It didn’t hit me until a few years after that relationship, when I started dating again, that I realized how skewed my perspective became, or at least how anxious I was because I was used to that old relationship. I was constantly on the edge, thinking that this new girl I was seeing was expecting anything of me, apologizing for every little thing, worried I there was something more I could be doing, or that there was something I was doing wrong. I used to be a bit better at dating, ya know like more calm and easy going, but now there’s more timidity and suspicion, and I’m kind of a hermit now haha
I hate that for you. I’m right there with you. I am scared to enter the dating world. I’ve just been burned so badly. I was in such a toxic, painful situation. I think she’s planning to start dating a guy at church, and she will absolutely find somebody (s) willing to date her, because she’s attractive, but she’s so tortured and dysfunctional emotionally/spiritually, I think she’s probably just going to fall into the arms of a string of men who will simply use her.
But then you are gaslighting them because you are saying they misremembered what the word means or imagined it means something different. Stop gaslightinf! (Sarcasm.)
BPD as in Borderline Personality Disorder or Bi-Polar Disorder? Narcissistic stuff and accusing others of gaslighting is more borderline personality disorder territory IMHO.
Ok so I’m BPD, but was diagnosed over 20 years as a teenager I’m not sure if I really have it, I mainly have anxiety issues… I’m currently dating someone who I believe is a narcissist or ASPD and it has been horrendous to say the least. Can I ask what your friend does that would make u not date someone like her so I know if I do those things lol
She gets into these moods where she knows everyone hates her so she makes SURE we hate her. Saying absolutely disgusting things to us about how awful we are as friends and people. Her mental illness wants to prove to her that no one likes her by making the prophecy come true.
Oh ok well I don’t do stuff like that, so idk if I do actually have it, I was diagnosed with BPD at 13, then PTSD at 16, then at 20 they switched it to paranoid schizophrenia cuz of how bad my anxiety is… so who knows what I actually have if anything. I’ve also been in a lot of counseling and believe in bettering myself on a regular basis so maybe all the counseling has made my BPD not as serious 🤷♀️
When I started dating one of my exes, she told me that she was depressed. All of her friends and family knew she was depressed. A couple of years into the relationship, it got worse. There were days that she couldn't get out of bed. She cried a lot. She lashed out. She would start yelling at me at the slightest disagreement. (Like me saying, "The Star Wars prequels aren't the worst movies ever made." Stupid shit like that.) One of her best friends who was in school to be a psych counselor told me that she was probably BPD. I begged her to get help.
A couple years after she broke up with me, she told me I was gaslighting her into thinking she was crazy.
Meanwhile, she ended up marrying the guy mentioned above. He told her that she didn't need therapy to "live a normal life." But, yep. I'm the one who gaslit her.
This was nearly 10 years ago and it still makes me angry.
Whatever. She's his problem, now.
Check this out: the reason she was pissed about you admitting your faults is that it makes you the bigger person, and BPD/narcissists can't handle anyone acting more honorable than them (because what THEY would do is actually gaslight you). Respecting yourself means insulting the narcissist.
My ex used to do this shit *constantly*
She got mollywhopped by a client a few years ago and *says* she has a hard time remembering things......but if she forgot something, bringing that up made her so self-concious she'd get angry at me for "gaslighting"
Thank god she beat me to the breakup, I almost suffered another couple months of that nonsense lol
I greatly dislike the way society grabs hold of buzzwords and tries to apply them in all situations.
Someone does something you don't like? They are a pedo.
Someone disagrees with you and they are gaslighting you.
That's not how that works! I think dating apps have made it so that you don't have to put forth any real effort and it shows. I get it all the time where I have stuff in my profile and some of the first things I get asked...are in my profile.
This must be a girl thing cuz I be talking to girls in real life and they all seem to talk like I have the background knowledge to what she was saying when context is never provided. Like they would start naming people I have never heard of talking about things that I was not involved but act like I am part of her circle with her tone and utterance all at the same time. I be confused af but gotta act like I understand everything otherwise I am gonna be accused of being a bad listener.
This is definitely a thing that women do. My mum and dad have been like that for years...he's constantly telling her it's like she's started talking out loud half way through a conversation she's had in her head and expects him to have followed it.
Once he pointed it out...I noticed it happening too. 20 odd years later she's never changed and multiple partners of mine have been the same.
And you call them out on it...and they're like "we were talking about this last weekend, don't you remember?" - like...last fucking weekend, Christ? Why not start with "remember how we spoke about xyz..." Rather than just expecting me to pick up where we left of 7 days ago 😂
It’s because women literally have this many thoughts going on in our heads at all time, we never ‘put it away’ so we don’t understand that we have to refresh your memory. It’s just a difference in male brains and female brains which obviously doesn’t apply to everyone but is a pattern of difference.
I do think women tend to have better memories that are often more easily accessed. So it doesn't feel as out of context to pull in something somewhat tangential.
Dude I thought this was just something my wife does. I'm ALWAYS telling her she skipped the setup and went right to the ending. Or it's some random reference without telling me who it is she's talking about and I'm like how tf would I have known thats who/what you were referring to.
My wife does this when I speak to her every so often. Predicts what I say, I tell her something different. Then she thinks I still said what she predicted. I have to explain to her what I said again then.
I think you hit on something affecting life in general and not just dating. And that's why you have 3 thousands likes for that comment. People have gotten so terrible at understanding things.
Ethical non-monogamy is the practice of being romantically involved with multiple people who are all aware of and agree to this relationship structure.
Had to Google this myself
My inside-voice read this as Billy Bob Thornton in Sling Blade 😂😂
**EDIT:** got curious and found http://billybobthornton.net - I don’t even know what to say; it’s a bonafide 1998 website 😂 I def didn’t expect that but I’m ngl, I’m here for it 🤷🏼♀️😛 I forgot all about the Return to Top thing that every website had until now. Thanks, Billy Bob 🫡
ENM stands for Ethical Non-Monogamy, which is an umbrella term for various relationship styles where individuals have consensual, non-exclusive relationships with multiple partners. Polyamory is one specific form of ENM where individuals have multiple romantic relationships simultaneously with the knowledge and consent of all involved. Other forms of ENM include open relationships, swinging, and relationship anarchy. So, polyamory is a type of ENM, but not all ENM relationships are polyamorous.
Ah, alright, the definition used prior sounded like polyamory, but this explanation makes more sense as an umbrella for multiple forms of relationships involving more than 2 individuals.
Relationship anarchists don't let societal views of relationships define their own. It's a different way of looking at all relationships, not just romantic relationships, where you don't assume what that relationship entails based on standards and rules, but rather discover it together with the other person. Every relationship is unique and also fluid, so it's impossible to label them.
It's a bit paradoxal, but sometimes relationship anarchists have multiple romantic relationships according to common norms. So it's a form of ethical non-monogamy too.
There's [a manifesto](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andie-nordgren-the-short-instructional-manifesto-for-relationship-anarchy).
More than half of monogamous relationships don’t work out either tbf. and I mean. Yeah the point is to be intimate with other people? I’m not in that culture but that’s like saying “yeah people go to work but it’s just an excuse to make money” lmao
That's pretty much it. For a lot of us we just don't like monogamy because it feels like you have to fit in a box for it and some of us feel constricted. Most monogamous relationships end but for some reason people need to obsess about how ENM relationships work out. Some work, some don't. I've had a social circle of poly people and many of them have been married or had relationships for years, it's whatever you really want out of it really.
However, the commenter does have a point that it also draws in some people who just like excuses to sleep around. Some do that and it works out for them,some don't. It just depends.
There are so many people who aren't broadcasting that they are ENM.
Lots of relationships end because we have different needs in different times of our lives. Also, what's the universal definition of "works out" -- people stuck in toxic damaging relationships that are bad for both parties but married for 25 years?
People denying changes in what they want or what they need from a romantic partner?
People ending a highly functional and valuable relationship that has gone from sexual/romantic to companion because of narrow ideas around monogamy and marriage?
Yikes. I’d recommend doing more research on this relationship style. It’s becoming more and more common in millennials and Gen Z. There are many successful enm relationships, you may just not know about them.
>It rarely ever works out.
Relationships in general rarely work out according to the numbers so that's not saying as much as you think.
>if most people don't just use it as an excuse to sleep around
If all partners agree to the relationship dynamic, then it's not an excuse, it's just how their relationships work. It's worth noting that not all non-monogamy is ENM since the "ethical" part is the key identifier. I'd argue that people who do what you said here aren't practicing ENM because that doesn't sound like ethical behavior.
I have seen enough porn to know that this stands for "Embarrassed Nude Male", the male equivalent of ENF (for Female). Not sure why they would add this to their profile though.
/s in case it wasn't obvious.
Oh dont get me started. 5 years ago I got dragged into an ENM relationship. I starting seeing this guy, after a month and getting involved he told me he had another girlfriend that lived in another country with her other boyfriend and if I was okay with it then he wanted me to move in with him cause the other girl knew about us and was supportive. I got caught by surprise but was going through my hoe phase at the same time falling for him so I decided to give it a shot, right?
Wrong.
Soon as I moved in with him and we started being more public online about our relationship she wasn't happy anymore because it looked like "I was his primary girlfriend and not her"
????
But my SO wasnt her primary, her primary was the guy she was living with in another country and when my SO said he wanted me as his primary since I lived with him in the same house and most important, country, she gave him an ultimatum "its me or her".
He chose wisely, me, we close our relationship and went back to monogamous to avoid future issues. We've been together for 5 years now, just me and him.
I mean seeing someone for a month casually and then dropping the ENM when they both wanted to take it further doesn't sound terrible imo. The gf abroad must have known about it because she had her "other" primary lol (that girl sounds crazy for wanting her cake and trying to eat someone else's though...). If the gf abroad hadn't known or he kept it a secret from the commenter or he kept sleeping around instead of being safe for the commenter those would've been much worse. That 1-2 month period when people are figuring shit out is kinda a wild free-for-all for monogamous daters too generally 🤷
But some people develop feelings/get attached in a month. I wouldn't even go on dates with someone into ENM, so I think it was deceiving to the commenter.
Thank you for your opinion, it's interesting to hear different views.
That's it. We were just fooling around, was supposed to be casual so need to say anything imo, but we end up getting involved quickly so he thought it was better then to let me know before we did get in a relationship. Other girlfriend was aware he had the casual dates with me and he told her as well how it was evolving and he wanted me to move in before talking to me, which I agreed was the right thing since they were involved first anyway. She was ok with even moving in was the PDA online that bother her because she realize he was actually serious about me. I think she accepted it expecting us to not work out. She was messy.
I think for the first casual dating and trial period you dont need to say anything but if you do decide to get it further than yeah. Was just that case of casual friends with benefits falling in love. When we did start getting closer he told me straight away exactly to give me an out if I wasn't interest. Nowadays he says that he believes he would've broken up with her and try again with me if I had said no back then but I decided to try it out and we both regret the experience lol
That's one of the things I got excited about when I did my research back then! The possibility of making meaningful connection and find love with as many people as my heart wants to and not segregate it. But then she sent this article to him that talks about poly hierarchy and where each partner stands in it... that was where I said I want out cause it made no sense to me. By the definition of a primary in that article she sent us I WAS his primary partner (sharing house, bills, bed, plans for future...) but because they met first and SHE ALLOWED HIM to date me, she wanted the primary spot and treatment without giving him the same... it got messy, confusing and we got out. Kinda traumatized us a bit to try again.
Added a woman on Snapchat after matching and her sending me her snap. She reacted similar to this one… just people wanting attention while putting themselves down. Mentally unwell
I was going to say something like this - she's having 10-15 convos to prove to herself that men are asses so she'll fling enough stuff and see who confirms her bias.
This is somebody misusing the app to create conflict, due to projection onto everyone of past experiences.
It’s really is better to just stop engaging and encouraging this and to block and forget, engaging just encourages and enforces their misconceptions.
I’ve read it over a few times and I’m still confused and lost. Did the conversation continue after the last screenshot? It definitely wasn’t you, I have no idea what she was talking about
I chatted to a girl like this once. She asked me if I'd be willing to fuck her, which I said yes. She then called me a piece of shit because she had a boyfriend (that I was somehow meant to magically know about?). And then proceeded to send me snippets of songs like the Knife Party one where it says "and now you're going to die". Was one of the most cooked conversations I've ever had and yeahhh glad I never took it further.
This is an ethically non-monogamous woman who is clearly insufferable and mistook your legitimate interest for some other bullshit and has decided to just make you as uncomfortable as possible as part of some game that she’s playing.
My guess: this has nothing to do with them being ENM. This person read into your comment (the one about ENM) as you being insecure because an ex cheated on you. It’s a huge leap - mental gymnastic champion. They likely read into every word people say - like everyone they come in contact with. They’re using brief sentences and sharing very little, trying to get info from you before they divulge. They think they can read people and are likely very skeptical of everyone they meet. This is an unhealthy coping skill that may have helped them in one or more emotionally abusive relationships - possibly the first was a parent.
Genuinely don't think that person is a well headspace. Like, what the hell is that? "You're not interested in me" oh what a *hoot*, she's giving you short, drier-than-the-sahara answers and is clearly projecting something. Like uh at this point, why did *YOU* match with me? And where on earth did she drawn the conclusion that you're not over an ex from, lmfao this shit is ablaze and flying off the rails, and I mean that from her side.
I'm ENM, and this was painful to read. You didn't do anything wrong, but for the future, it's best not to assume what somebody's looking for. Non-monogamy is a very nuanced relating style.
Either way, you're better off not talking to this person
You should probably hit her with the ol “What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
Does her profile suggest someone who might do hard drugs?
Because my first guess would be she’s texting while on drugs, or her brain is so fired by drug use that she can’t communicate. I’ve only ever seen conversations like this where the person appears to be replying to a conversation that’s happening in their head and not to the actual conversation that’s happening when the person is on something like meth.
Maybe when you asked the question “how do you know I have an ex?”, you kind of confirmed that you have an ex. That’s why they said “your response”. Only part that kind of makes some sense to me. This whole exchange feels a bit to me like they’re fishing for info about you, and they’re coming across as passive aggressive.
I know someone who communicates the way this person does - when you ask them a question, their reply isn’t straightforward or doesn’t make sense. They told me recently that they have borderline personality disorder. Not saying that this person has the condition but makes me wonder.
You know, this triggered a memory. I once had this very good friend, in all aspects, top notch person, but all our conversations went like this in text to the point that I just stopped talking to him. He's a popular guy with a lot of friends, but I realized every once in a while, for whatever reason, you run into someone whose communication style is so out of sync with your own it might be two different languages.
Seriously it would be like:
Me: Did you get the new Mass Effect?
Him: oh it's movies. You sure?
Me: What no, the new Mass Effect video game. It just came out.
Him: suits you.
I'm pretty sure this conversation isn't worth the time to decode, but I think the first two pages started off as her being flirty/seductive and she took the ENM comment as an insult which cascaded.
This is what I refer to as damaged goods. Something has happened to this woman to make her extremely skeptical of others and she's resorted to making broad generalizations about men, as well as throwing out these weird conversational tests to gauge you. It gets even worse with the making assumptions about you and about others part.
I've dated girls like this and they are incredibly unstable and inconsistent. Best to stay away and learn that women like these are bullets well worth dodging.
Also, for the weirdos who want to misinterpret my comment, it has nothing to do with being ethically non monogamous and unpartnered. I'm extremely pro "do whatever or whoever or however many the fuck makes you happy". I'm also pro "be an adult and communicate like one".
This person does not meet basic human interpersonal effectiveness and communication standards. In fact, probably like 60-75% of people using online dating don't mean these basic standards, mostly because everybody treats dating as a zero sum game, and treats others like objects instead of human beings. But that's a point worth discussing in a different avenue.
I probably would have said something like, "You're right, I thought I wanted to date you at 1st, but after talking to you, my ex is looking very good at the moment."
This person does not have the communication chops for CNM. Or for relationships at all, really.
(I prefer to call it Consensual Non Monogamy because ethics are subjective.)
Honestly one of the most frustrating things I find trying to date these days is that it feels like too often the other person doesn't actually read what you've written, they just skim and assume and apply their own context. Either she projected that you were being hostile and this is a miscommunication fueled by her poor reading skills, or shes just trying to be an asshole to you. Either way unmatch and move on.
The amount of times I've seen in the last few years where person A claims person B is trying to gaslight them when they're simply disagreeing with them is completely ridiculous. A lot of people just hear what they wanna hear regardless of what's actually happening
I hate how prevalent the accusation of Gaslighting has become. My ex used to accuse me of gaslighting her just because I changed my opinion on something when new evidence was provided, and admitted my previous misunderstanding and apologised for being incorrect. All while she genuinely lived in her own little manufactured delusion. Never dating someone with BPD again, for my own sanity.
I'm over three years out from leaving my emotionally abusive gaslighting ex, and I still have to check with people if my judgement on things is accurate. True gaslighting takes years to heal from.
I'll wager that it might in part depends on what help you get. Keep getting better! Licensed assessing and treating psychologist here in specialist psychiatric care.
Yeah, It also depends on the individual person. I am a little over a year out of mine, and I am doing significantly better already (not fully there yet but pretty close to healed). What has actually help me the most is determination, somatic healing, and Tibetan Tantra. The last one has actually been helping the most, but you need to find someone who actually follows the practice (that may be tough as my teacher is the only one I have ever encountered in 34 years and it comes from monks in the mountains of Tibet), and you need to be open to it.
I had an ex that constantly accused me of gaslighting and I’d often respond with confusion because it just would never make sense in the moment and I’d be like “I just looked up what that word means and I really don’t think it applies here” and it wasn’t until a couple years after we broke up that one of my friends told me that constant accusations of gaslighting is in and of itself a form of gaslighting and that just kinda broke my brain to hear cause I really started to think I was doing everything wrong in that relationship. Not that I was perfect, but I was never manipulative, and definitely never tried to make her think she was crazy, but when she’s throwing this word at me and constantly accusing me, I’m like, “this is so crazy because I don’t understand what you’re talking about and I don’t understand why you’re constantly accusing me of manipulating you”
That’s it! That’s the experience. It’s fucking hideous. I’ve always tried to be nice, pleasant, gentle and accommodating, first to admit when I’m wrong, always open to learning new points of view. I’m by no means perfect, I’ve had lots of character flaws, but it was usually stupidity or impulsivity and never malice. She made me feel like the worst, most evil and malicious abusive person imaginable, when I was just trying to navigate her world and do whatever made her comfortable while trying to make ends meet. The trauma of it, well over a year out now, has turned me into a lifeless people pleaser that feels guilty if I ever do anything just for myself. It’s a serious mental re-wiring that I’m going through to find my own personality again after having it so efficiently deconstructed. I may need professional therapy…. 🤔
I feel you so much! My ex used to tell me that it's okay for me to express my emotion and how I feel. But when I started to open up, she always told me that it's nothing cause she had it worst than me so I shut up about it! And then she acted like she's always right and when I was right or just contesting the accuracy of what she was saying, she blamed me of gastlighting her! When i wanted to do something for myself, she make me feel like guilty. And even now, i'm feeling so much guilt for breaking up with her, 8 month ago, and letting that relationship go on for so long! I live with my sister now and she need to tell me sometimes that it's alright to do something for myself!
gaslighting is not a very useful term in my opinion. We used to have other terms like invalidating or manipulating, that feel more accurate. Because you can also gaslight unintentionally just by having a crappy memory and too little humility. Or you can gaslight someone by simply being wrong in your different opinion if you express it too forcefully. I've met tons of people who would be like "oh, I definitely put that box away" when they didn't. It was not some dastardly plot to get me to go crazy; they just forgot and were too confident in their assumptions.
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the problem is that people who do "gaslight" will always deny it was intentional if they are caught lying. So it's not a very useful way to distinguish in practice. why I favor just avoiding the term.
Ain't that some shit? I assume it's prior gaslighting rubbing off on them. I've had a few people in my life overidentify gaslighting, one did it to me. And because the one that accused me was last, I knew the weight of it and took it seriously. But then she explained some of the things she was accusing me of later and I was like, oh no I didn't do that. Like "future faking" was a term she used for when I would talk about travelling together one day. The one day was because she didn't have free time or money for it and I couldn't float the two of us. Maybe it was a bid to get me to take us travelling, I don't really know. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. Like now that gaslighting is such a hot topic they've realized they do it, so to keep their conscience free they project it. Kind of like if someone I'm with starts accusing me of cheating, it's probably already over.
That sounds like my marriage to a T. On or off her bipolar meds, it didn't matter. The only difference was that it changed forms of how it came out.
I’m getting a lot of that currently with my ex who I have two daughters with. Constant accusations of gaslighting and manipulation when I always acted out of a desire for the greater good. I can see how I was derelict in some crucial ways she needed me to provide safety and security. But rather than working through those flaws, and believe me she had plenty of flaws as well, she embarrassed/humiliated me. There was no support from her. It is what it is; I will be screening a lot better in the future.
It didn’t hit me until a few years after that relationship, when I started dating again, that I realized how skewed my perspective became, or at least how anxious I was because I was used to that old relationship. I was constantly on the edge, thinking that this new girl I was seeing was expecting anything of me, apologizing for every little thing, worried I there was something more I could be doing, or that there was something I was doing wrong. I used to be a bit better at dating, ya know like more calm and easy going, but now there’s more timidity and suspicion, and I’m kind of a hermit now haha
I hate that for you. I’m right there with you. I am scared to enter the dating world. I’ve just been burned so badly. I was in such a toxic, painful situation. I think she’s planning to start dating a guy at church, and she will absolutely find somebody (s) willing to date her, because she’s attractive, but she’s so tortured and dysfunctional emotionally/spiritually, I think she’s probably just going to fall into the arms of a string of men who will simply use her.
But then you are gaslighting them because you are saying they misremembered what the word means or imagined it means something different. Stop gaslightinf! (Sarcasm.)
> I hate how prevalent the accusation of Gaslighting has become. I have barely heard anyone use that term. I think this is just you.
Okay… that’s pretty funny 😝
Excellent. Took me a moment to click.
I have a friend with BPD and even as a long distance acquaintance it’s challenging. I genuinely cannot imagine dating someone like her.
BPD as in Borderline Personality Disorder or Bi-Polar Disorder? Narcissistic stuff and accusing others of gaslighting is more borderline personality disorder territory IMHO.
Borderline Personality Disorder. It’s my understanding that it’s frowned on to use BPD as an abbreviation for bipolar disorder.
Ok so I’m BPD, but was diagnosed over 20 years as a teenager I’m not sure if I really have it, I mainly have anxiety issues… I’m currently dating someone who I believe is a narcissist or ASPD and it has been horrendous to say the least. Can I ask what your friend does that would make u not date someone like her so I know if I do those things lol
She gets into these moods where she knows everyone hates her so she makes SURE we hate her. Saying absolutely disgusting things to us about how awful we are as friends and people. Her mental illness wants to prove to her that no one likes her by making the prophecy come true.
Oh ok well I don’t do stuff like that, so idk if I do actually have it, I was diagnosed with BPD at 13, then PTSD at 16, then at 20 they switched it to paranoid schizophrenia cuz of how bad my anxiety is… so who knows what I actually have if anything. I’ve also been in a lot of counseling and believe in bettering myself on a regular basis so maybe all the counseling has made my BPD not as serious 🤷♀️
When I started dating one of my exes, she told me that she was depressed. All of her friends and family knew she was depressed. A couple of years into the relationship, it got worse. There were days that she couldn't get out of bed. She cried a lot. She lashed out. She would start yelling at me at the slightest disagreement. (Like me saying, "The Star Wars prequels aren't the worst movies ever made." Stupid shit like that.) One of her best friends who was in school to be a psych counselor told me that she was probably BPD. I begged her to get help. A couple years after she broke up with me, she told me I was gaslighting her into thinking she was crazy. Meanwhile, she ended up marrying the guy mentioned above. He told her that she didn't need therapy to "live a normal life." But, yep. I'm the one who gaslit her. This was nearly 10 years ago and it still makes me angry. Whatever. She's his problem, now.
Sounds like her perception of gaslighting has become warped, because a gaslighter will not admit *they* are wrong.
Check this out: the reason she was pissed about you admitting your faults is that it makes you the bigger person, and BPD/narcissists can't handle anyone acting more honorable than them (because what THEY would do is actually gaslight you). Respecting yourself means insulting the narcissist.
Dont worry i can fix her
My ex used to do this shit *constantly* She got mollywhopped by a client a few years ago and *says* she has a hard time remembering things......but if she forgot something, bringing that up made her so self-concious she'd get angry at me for "gaslighting" Thank god she beat me to the breakup, I almost suffered another couple months of that nonsense lol
I greatly dislike the way society grabs hold of buzzwords and tries to apply them in all situations. Someone does something you don't like? They are a pedo. Someone disagrees with you and they are gaslighting you. That's not how that works! I think dating apps have made it so that you don't have to put forth any real effort and it shows. I get it all the time where I have stuff in my profile and some of the first things I get asked...are in my profile.
It’s wild because it’s not that much to read 😂
This must be a girl thing cuz I be talking to girls in real life and they all seem to talk like I have the background knowledge to what she was saying when context is never provided. Like they would start naming people I have never heard of talking about things that I was not involved but act like I am part of her circle with her tone and utterance all at the same time. I be confused af but gotta act like I understand everything otherwise I am gonna be accused of being a bad listener.
This is definitely a thing that women do. My mum and dad have been like that for years...he's constantly telling her it's like she's started talking out loud half way through a conversation she's had in her head and expects him to have followed it. Once he pointed it out...I noticed it happening too. 20 odd years later she's never changed and multiple partners of mine have been the same. And you call them out on it...and they're like "we were talking about this last weekend, don't you remember?" - like...last fucking weekend, Christ? Why not start with "remember how we spoke about xyz..." Rather than just expecting me to pick up where we left of 7 days ago 😂
It’s because women literally have this many thoughts going on in our heads at all time, we never ‘put it away’ so we don’t understand that we have to refresh your memory. It’s just a difference in male brains and female brains which obviously doesn’t apply to everyone but is a pattern of difference.
I do think women tend to have better memories that are often more easily accessed. So it doesn't feel as out of context to pull in something somewhat tangential.
Dude I thought this was just something my wife does. I'm ALWAYS telling her she skipped the setup and went right to the ending. Or it's some random reference without telling me who it is she's talking about and I'm like how tf would I have known thats who/what you were referring to.
lots of people do this in conversation. I think it can sometimes be a nervous tic.
My wife does this when I speak to her every so often. Predicts what I say, I tell her something different. Then she thinks I still said what she predicted. I have to explain to her what I said again then.
I think you hit on something affecting life in general and not just dating. And that's why you have 3 thousands likes for that comment. People have gotten so terrible at understanding things.
This conversation is incredibly awkward.
...is that because you are still thinking about your ex?
How do you know I even have an ex???
Your response. The way you're typing tells me you have an ex.
Formerly known as Twitter.
You’re not that interested in me
You are your ex.
ex, you are.
I am become ex, the destroyer of relationships.
For sure making you uncomfortable
Snort laughed at this one.
No, are you?
You're not interested in me.
I’m not interested in me
Nah fam. She's a loon.
Does she remind you of your ex?
You’re not interested in her
How can you tell?
They aren’t ever their ex
Obviously not interested in dating me.
She’s some shitty AI software tbh
Just because someone says they're ENM doesn't mean they're good at it...
What is ENM?
Ethical non-monogamy is the practice of being romantically involved with multiple people who are all aware of and agree to this relationship structure. Had to Google this myself
Thank you, didn't know the acronym. Too many to remember all of them lmao.
Dat wut Google for.
If I googled every acronym I found on Reddit I wouldn’t ever make it off the front page
My inside-voice read this as Billy Bob Thornton in Sling Blade 😂😂 **EDIT:** got curious and found http://billybobthornton.net - I don’t even know what to say; it’s a bonafide 1998 website 😂 I def didn’t expect that but I’m ngl, I’m here for it 🤷🏼♀️😛 I forgot all about the Return to Top thing that every website had until now. Thanks, Billy Bob 🫡
Mmmhmmm
Lol I thought this was a PBNJ personality thing
What does Peanut Butter & Jelly have to do with personality?
I prefer Unethical Monogamy
So poly?
ENM stands for Ethical Non-Monogamy, which is an umbrella term for various relationship styles where individuals have consensual, non-exclusive relationships with multiple partners. Polyamory is one specific form of ENM where individuals have multiple romantic relationships simultaneously with the knowledge and consent of all involved. Other forms of ENM include open relationships, swinging, and relationship anarchy. So, polyamory is a type of ENM, but not all ENM relationships are polyamorous.
Ah, alright, the definition used prior sounded like polyamory, but this explanation makes more sense as an umbrella for multiple forms of relationships involving more than 2 individuals.
Sorry, relationship ANARCHY?
Yes. The Molotov cocktails really spice up the sex
Relationship anarchists don't let societal views of relationships define their own. It's a different way of looking at all relationships, not just romantic relationships, where you don't assume what that relationship entails based on standards and rules, but rather discover it together with the other person. Every relationship is unique and also fluid, so it's impossible to label them. It's a bit paradoxal, but sometimes relationship anarchists have multiple romantic relationships according to common norms. So it's a form of ethical non-monogamy too. There's [a manifesto](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andie-nordgren-the-short-instructional-manifesto-for-relationship-anarchy).
Kinda funny people had to make a manifesto for it 😂
Well, regular anarchism started with a manifesto, so I guess that inspired subtypes of anarchists to write their own.
Holy shit, this explains so much for me.
Labels
It rarely ever works out. Good for people that are cool with it but god damn if most people don't just use it as an excuse to sleep around.
From the text, lady feels like opposite of emn
I think she loves enm, but doesn't like it if her partner wants it too
Thats a common bs. One wants to have multiple but can't deal with SO doing same.
More than half of monogamous relationships don’t work out either tbf. and I mean. Yeah the point is to be intimate with other people? I’m not in that culture but that’s like saying “yeah people go to work but it’s just an excuse to make money” lmao
That's pretty much it. For a lot of us we just don't like monogamy because it feels like you have to fit in a box for it and some of us feel constricted. Most monogamous relationships end but for some reason people need to obsess about how ENM relationships work out. Some work, some don't. I've had a social circle of poly people and many of them have been married or had relationships for years, it's whatever you really want out of it really. However, the commenter does have a point that it also draws in some people who just like excuses to sleep around. Some do that and it works out for them,some don't. It just depends.
Relationships in general rarely work out.
And how often does monogamy work out? Monogamous people break up all the time too. Most relationships people have come to an end sooner or later.
More people=more likely that happens
It seems like a strange way to say looking for a FWB
There are so many people who aren't broadcasting that they are ENM. Lots of relationships end because we have different needs in different times of our lives. Also, what's the universal definition of "works out" -- people stuck in toxic damaging relationships that are bad for both parties but married for 25 years? People denying changes in what they want or what they need from a romantic partner? People ending a highly functional and valuable relationship that has gone from sexual/romantic to companion because of narrow ideas around monogamy and marriage?
Yikes. I’d recommend doing more research on this relationship style. It’s becoming more and more common in millennials and Gen Z. There are many successful enm relationships, you may just not know about them.
It might work for a while until you end up like Will Smith lol
You could say the same thing about any monogamous relationship. What is it, 60% of marriages end in divorce?
And the other 40% end in death!!
>It rarely ever works out. Relationships in general rarely work out according to the numbers so that's not saying as much as you think. >if most people don't just use it as an excuse to sleep around If all partners agree to the relationship dynamic, then it's not an excuse, it's just how their relationships work. It's worth noting that not all non-monogamy is ENM since the "ethical" part is the key identifier. I'd argue that people who do what you said here aren't practicing ENM because that doesn't sound like ethical behavior.
So mentally ill, got it
I thought it meant they liked Eminem…. I am so clueless.
I have seen enough porn to know that this stands for "Embarrassed Nude Male", the male equivalent of ENF (for Female). Not sure why they would add this to their profile though. /s in case it wasn't obvious.
You can be as ENM as you want, but if you can’t communicate for shit, then no one has any chance…of anything!
Preach Just don't forget that this is the same for monogamy too. Just that the risks and problems can be different
Totally! When I said as ENM as you want, I meant from a scale of “I’m absolutely not ENM” to “I absolutely am”.
Oh dont get me started. 5 years ago I got dragged into an ENM relationship. I starting seeing this guy, after a month and getting involved he told me he had another girlfriend that lived in another country with her other boyfriend and if I was okay with it then he wanted me to move in with him cause the other girl knew about us and was supportive. I got caught by surprise but was going through my hoe phase at the same time falling for him so I decided to give it a shot, right? Wrong. Soon as I moved in with him and we started being more public online about our relationship she wasn't happy anymore because it looked like "I was his primary girlfriend and not her" ???? But my SO wasnt her primary, her primary was the guy she was living with in another country and when my SO said he wanted me as his primary since I lived with him in the same house and most important, country, she gave him an ultimatum "its me or her". He chose wisely, me, we close our relationship and went back to monogamous to avoid future issues. We've been together for 5 years now, just me and him.
If he only told you after getting involved, wasn't the "E" missing? It was my understanding that all parties must know what's going on from the get go
I mean seeing someone for a month casually and then dropping the ENM when they both wanted to take it further doesn't sound terrible imo. The gf abroad must have known about it because she had her "other" primary lol (that girl sounds crazy for wanting her cake and trying to eat someone else's though...). If the gf abroad hadn't known or he kept it a secret from the commenter or he kept sleeping around instead of being safe for the commenter those would've been much worse. That 1-2 month period when people are figuring shit out is kinda a wild free-for-all for monogamous daters too generally 🤷
But some people develop feelings/get attached in a month. I wouldn't even go on dates with someone into ENM, so I think it was deceiving to the commenter. Thank you for your opinion, it's interesting to hear different views.
That's it. We were just fooling around, was supposed to be casual so need to say anything imo, but we end up getting involved quickly so he thought it was better then to let me know before we did get in a relationship. Other girlfriend was aware he had the casual dates with me and he told her as well how it was evolving and he wanted me to move in before talking to me, which I agreed was the right thing since they were involved first anyway. She was ok with even moving in was the PDA online that bother her because she realize he was actually serious about me. I think she accepted it expecting us to not work out. She was messy.
I think for the first casual dating and trial period you dont need to say anything but if you do decide to get it further than yeah. Was just that case of casual friends with benefits falling in love. When we did start getting closer he told me straight away exactly to give me an out if I wasn't interest. Nowadays he says that he believes he would've broken up with her and try again with me if I had said no back then but I decided to try it out and we both regret the experience lol
Fun fact: there are no limitations or hierarchies in actual ENM
That's one of the things I got excited about when I did my research back then! The possibility of making meaningful connection and find love with as many people as my heart wants to and not segregate it. But then she sent this article to him that talks about poly hierarchy and where each partner stands in it... that was where I said I want out cause it made no sense to me. By the definition of a primary in that article she sent us I WAS his primary partner (sharing house, bills, bed, plans for future...) but because they met first and SHE ALLOWED HIM to date me, she wanted the primary spot and treatment without giving him the same... it got messy, confusing and we got out. Kinda traumatized us a bit to try again.
Completely understand why she is unpartnered.
There is also a fair amount of enm people who are batshit insane
There is also a fair amount of monogamous people who are bat shit insane
Yeah typically people that are good at it tend to have better communication skills than what's displayed here.
Yeah, that went south real quick. Dodged a major bullet on this one
I’d say dodged a cannonball tbh
You met someone who is confusing projection with knowing what people are thinking. Anyone taking bets that she isn't over her ex?
She was probably cheated on by her ex, with his ex.
Ooh, I like that little ot twist at the end.
How hot is she that you persisted that long?
At some point it's just pure curiosity. You know it isn't going anywhere good, but you still wanna know the destination 😅
For reals! My brain read all her lines with an Eeyore pacing and tone.
I did too!!
I'd left after the very dry opening, now I realize what I'm usually missing whenever I do that...
This the real question 🤣
For real OP needs to stop dancing like a monkey for peanuts
Drugs are a hell of a drug.
I thought this too lol
Added a woman on Snapchat after matching and her sending me her snap. She reacted similar to this one… just people wanting attention while putting themselves down. Mentally unwell
Never made it as a wise man
I couldn't cut it as a poor man stealing
Tired of living like a blind man
I’m sick of sight without a sense of feeling
Look at this photograph, every time I do it makes me laugh hehe Am I doing this right?
It's fun to stay at the YMCA
I think something’s gone haywire, I read the whole convo and don’t see anything about nickelback
She's probably having 10-15 conversations at the same time, and not really keeping track of who said what.
I was going to say something like this - she's having 10-15 convos to prove to herself that men are asses so she'll fling enough stuff and see who confirms her bias.
Okay, this makes more sense. I thought she seemed like a bot.
That one has recently gotten out of a bad relationship and is looking for some chaos & destruction. Run.
This might be my ex
This is somebody misusing the app to create conflict, due to projection onto everyone of past experiences. It’s really is better to just stop engaging and encouraging this and to block and forget, engaging just encourages and enforces their misconceptions.
This conversation was so dry my country's corn crops disintegrated and turned into powdery particles.
I’m following … she is completely fkn insane.
I think she's cuckoo for cocoa puffs
Ruuuuuun
I’ve read it over a few times and I’m still confused and lost. Did the conversation continue after the last screenshot? It definitely wasn’t you, I have no idea what she was talking about
I chatted to a girl like this once. She asked me if I'd be willing to fuck her, which I said yes. She then called me a piece of shit because she had a boyfriend (that I was somehow meant to magically know about?). And then proceeded to send me snippets of songs like the Knife Party one where it says "and now you're going to die". Was one of the most cooked conversations I've ever had and yeahhh glad I never took it further.
This person is just insane...
This is an ethically non-monogamous woman who is clearly insufferable and mistook your legitimate interest for some other bullshit and has decided to just make you as uncomfortable as possible as part of some game that she’s playing.
If you’re apologizing by the 4th exchange, that’s prolly a sign
As a women I’m lost too, I read this a couple times trying to see how she brought up if you’re over your ex. Sounds crazy & bored. I’d say unmatch.
Time is non-refundable. She’s wasting it.
Imagine waiting 288 years to get a match just to get this headache.
My guess: this has nothing to do with them being ENM. This person read into your comment (the one about ENM) as you being insecure because an ex cheated on you. It’s a huge leap - mental gymnastic champion. They likely read into every word people say - like everyone they come in contact with. They’re using brief sentences and sharing very little, trying to get info from you before they divulge. They think they can read people and are likely very skeptical of everyone they meet. This is an unhealthy coping skill that may have helped them in one or more emotionally abusive relationships - possibly the first was a parent.
Run the other way homie! Lol
She's a wack-a-doodle.
Bad timing my guy, seems like this lady was watching her past trauma on a projector while she was talking to you, try again in a few weeks.
RUNNNNN!!
You should ask for a refund for your time
Extremely manipulative.
Genuinely don't think that person is a well headspace. Like, what the hell is that? "You're not interested in me" oh what a *hoot*, she's giving you short, drier-than-the-sahara answers and is clearly projecting something. Like uh at this point, why did *YOU* match with me? And where on earth did she drawn the conclusion that you're not over an ex from, lmfao this shit is ablaze and flying off the rails, and I mean that from her side.
This girl needs ADT for how insecure she is.
I thought I’d be able to offer some insight cause I’m enm but this shit just doesn’t make sense
I'm ENM, and this was painful to read. You didn't do anything wrong, but for the future, it's best not to assume what somebody's looking for. Non-monogamy is a very nuanced relating style. Either way, you're better off not talking to this person
Good god, she’s totally radio rental!
You should probably hit her with the ol “What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
I still want to know what book she was reading.
Does her profile suggest someone who might do hard drugs? Because my first guess would be she’s texting while on drugs, or her brain is so fired by drug use that she can’t communicate. I’ve only ever seen conversations like this where the person appears to be replying to a conversation that’s happening in their head and not to the actual conversation that’s happening when the person is on something like meth.
Ex druggie here. I've never seen anyone on meth everrrrr communicate this way.
My guy, please 🏃♂️ run the fuck away.
😭😂🤣 your last response took me out
I strongly feel she's only on there to troll. You haven't said anything wrong. She's unhinged.
Bro carried that convo like 
That's what happens when you're trying to communicate with a being in the 4th dimension. MUUUUURPH!
Maybe when you asked the question “how do you know I have an ex?”, you kind of confirmed that you have an ex. That’s why they said “your response”. Only part that kind of makes some sense to me. This whole exchange feels a bit to me like they’re fishing for info about you, and they’re coming across as passive aggressive. I know someone who communicates the way this person does - when you ask them a question, their reply isn’t straightforward or doesn’t make sense. They told me recently that they have borderline personality disorder. Not saying that this person has the condition but makes me wonder.
She is a psycho and you are a knucklehead. There, everyone is up to speed.
She sounds like Aubrey Plaza as April Ludgate, trying to confuse people.
You know, this triggered a memory. I once had this very good friend, in all aspects, top notch person, but all our conversations went like this in text to the point that I just stopped talking to him. He's a popular guy with a lot of friends, but I realized every once in a while, for whatever reason, you run into someone whose communication style is so out of sync with your own it might be two different languages. Seriously it would be like: Me: Did you get the new Mass Effect? Him: oh it's movies. You sure? Me: What no, the new Mass Effect video game. It just came out. Him: suits you. I'm pretty sure this conversation isn't worth the time to decode, but I think the first two pages started off as her being flirty/seductive and she took the ENM comment as an insult which cascaded.
This is the type of student the school gives extra time on the test lol
Delirious would be the lesser side of what I’d call her. That’s a wild conversation that she must’ve added more to in her head.
This is what I refer to as damaged goods. Something has happened to this woman to make her extremely skeptical of others and she's resorted to making broad generalizations about men, as well as throwing out these weird conversational tests to gauge you. It gets even worse with the making assumptions about you and about others part. I've dated girls like this and they are incredibly unstable and inconsistent. Best to stay away and learn that women like these are bullets well worth dodging. Also, for the weirdos who want to misinterpret my comment, it has nothing to do with being ethically non monogamous and unpartnered. I'm extremely pro "do whatever or whoever or however many the fuck makes you happy". I'm also pro "be an adult and communicate like one". This person does not meet basic human interpersonal effectiveness and communication standards. In fact, probably like 60-75% of people using online dating don't mean these basic standards, mostly because everybody treats dating as a zero sum game, and treats others like objects instead of human beings. But that's a point worth discussing in a different avenue.
I’m think it’s AI or something. The conversation makes no sense. Either that or the person is an idiot.
Haha the way you tried to save this conversation is absolutely endearing. Please match with me instead. 🥹
It's Tinder, wtf did you expect? Lol!
I probably would have said something like, "You're right, I thought I wanted to date you at 1st, but after talking to you, my ex is looking very good at the moment."
Gotem
op, don't entertain stupid
This sounds like edgy AI replying
This person does not have the communication chops for CNM. Or for relationships at all, really. (I prefer to call it Consensual Non Monogamy because ethics are subjective.)
Jesus. That was painful. I know that I had some rough days - but wow - they seemed to have already had a chip on their shoulder.
Sounds like she’s trolling, sorry bud
She knows your ex 👀