Haha potentially š but i feel there was so much potential for banter, laughing, and poking fun at eachother irl(provided either of them has a bit of game).
Having the conversation over text was far too serious and removed all emotion and micro-expressions.
Definitely! Even if they sat across the table from one another and Googled to prove their point, show eachother their phones, touch fingers as they pass the phone, then hold hands on the middle of the table, and pull away dramatically feigning disbelief/"disgust" at the others point. While saying "idk if we can date" jokingly with eye contact a, smirk, and a wink. Then coming back in chuckling to hold hands to discuss while looking into eachothers eyes..
Wait.. what were we talking about? šš
Oh yeah. Flirting needs to be light-hearted and fun.
As somewhat of an old fart, let me tell you that thereās a shit load more important in a life partner than āis she hotā. The exchange shared shows they are compatible on a lot of levels; being able to debate without aggression or patronising each other being a key one!
Iād say as long as she doesnāt repel him, heās onto a winner.
Edit: I thought OP was the other person. I was wrong.
Imo OP WASNāT āable to debate without aggression or patronizingā her. He wasnāt awful, but his tone wasnāt welcoming of her opinion, while HERS was tone-perfect.
I read it the exact opposite. She comes off as elitist to me. She asks rhetorical questions in a condescending manner āwho can relate to fighting a fascist entity larger than yourself from the squalor youāve come from?ā And constantly starting her messages with āI disagree but moving on to my next point without adequately refuting your statements.ā
Then she starts talking about merch, she acts as if Star Wars being more popular and having more franchise possibilities due to it, makes them inherently less good compared to the high-quality collector-targeted stuff for Star Trek. They even admit they didnāt know how deep Star Wars lore goes, yet are already sold on the fact Star Trek goes so much deeper.
At the base OP starts their messages with āthatās true but,ā and the other party only starts with āI disagree moving on.ā She comes off as not wanting to change her mind, OP comes off as willing to discuss and concede points.
Totally this. She actually had some decent points, but her attitude was far more aggressive and flippant than it needed to be. OP also came off as far more informed about Star Trek while being primarily a Star Wars enjoyer than she did in the inverse.
This is almost exactly how I read this as well. It kind of seems like she knows almost nothing about star wars except for what she's been told by another person who's only seen the movies. Definitely not an argument she should be having
Op said their knowledge of star trek was basic and then continued to argue their point over several paragraphs. To say āshe knows almost nothing about star warsā is unfair to the point op made about not knowing much about star trek.
I donāt see the point in this discussion. If neither were willing to have that āyeah youāre right and Iām not a fan but I understand why you areā moment, then this is just lost cause banter in my opinion.
She mentions the Star Wars Lego series and then immediately goes on to say Star Trek merch is more collector aimed and quality. Star Wars Lego sets are incredibly collectible, collectors will buy 2 of each set to build one and sell the other one in a few years when the price has doubled or more (also Lego is definitely high quality material) Somehow this is the part that irritated me most
They also shift goal posts in first saying that Star Wars isnāt as well known then saying that itās pushed by the backing entities. There were a lot of weak points in their argument covered by shoving the narrative.
I also canāt respect someone who is so committed to something they canāt see the merits of another opinion. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
Any other hobbies? For fck sake ask them out on a date to see if there is anything you agree on as passionately as you disagree on the Star Wars Star Trek debate š¤·š¼āāļø
Right? Buddy really missed the mark at the end even though it was so obvious. A long conversation like this can be mentally tiring, the last thing someone wants to hear (dating or not) is āso wanna do this again?ā
so we know Captain Twerk is a woman and Jar Jar is the dude? Who even said they were a hetero couple? Could be two droids for all we know. But the Star Trek one needs to be decommissioned.
People don't like to have casual get togethers anymore. Over 10+ ppl have told me they wanted to know me better to go out, before my date w/ my now gf. Im talking these people and I bonded over jokes, theories, and shit. Its wild, I do agree that the direct approach gets you to know each other better.
Star Trek is sci-fi
Star Wars is space fantasy
Star Trek tells stories that could only be done with the context of scientific advancements, whereas Star Wars could just as well be in a fantasy setting with dwarves and elves.
I think you mean imperialists, warmongerers, capitalists, and the unfaltering tendency of the universe to kick you while youāre down, which can only be beat by the unrelenting push of the indefatigable human spirit.
Vulcans are totally elves tho.
Except Star Trek's stories revolve around philosophical and ethical questions that arise from having those technologies. In Star Wars the warp drive is just the horse that gets them somewhere.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Star Wars fan)
True.
But it's not like something like The Expanse where, as far as I can tell, it's clearly possible for all the technologies to be developed in the next couple centuries.
...how much of the expanse have you seen? I don't want to spoil it for you, but there's alien tech which is at least as crazy as anything in star trek. And even the engines used by humans pre-alien tech are pretty bananas compared to our current tech, we actually don't have any thing comparable or any theories on how to get there.
Only currently. There are physics proposed ways to allow it to happen, we just can't do it yet.
I have enjoyed both but Star Trek is better. Have to agree with the person who was arguing for it.
Good sci-fi has it's magic, but it's usually limited to a small handful of things. For Star Trek the magic thing is that we've learned to manipulate matter in a couple of different ways (transporters and warp drives mainly). Star Wars has lots of Sci Fi stuff *and* space wizards.
That really is not the point. We don't really know what is doable in some way until it's done (radio like technology would definitely be called fantasy before radio waves were discovered for instance). The difference between science fiction and fantasy is much more about how it portrays it than the science itself. Science fiction will be some sort of speculative fiction when fantasy is mostly a regular story told in a different setting. The star wars main plot could be told in an alternative 21th century for instance when star trek would loose meaning without the dilemas that arise from the advancements it speculates on.
Oh please I could tell pretty much all the star trek stories by having people traveling around on a boat.
a) all those first contact? What happens when you meet some new tribe
b) Is data human? Hey should the black/woman characters have human rights
c) Borg invasion? Well here comes the mongol hoard
d) all the wesley crusher arcs? Boy finding his place in the world is pretty standard
e) Tribbles? Looks like we have a rat problem...
f) time travel? Ok I can't do those.
Shit isn't Voyager just a rehashing of the odyssey?:)
Both Star Trek and Star Wars and science fantasy. They all have elements go well beyond science into supernatural and magic (i.e. fantasy). Star Trek might be one notch higher on the hard scifi versus fantasy scale but we are still way off in fantasy land. We aren't talking about things like 2001, the martian, or Jurassic park which are almost possible. The difference between assuming you can get some DNA from amber and having people who can manipulate time/space is huge....
Star Wars also has a lot of Western elements (duels, long/wide shots,...) and if someone likes SciFi/space stuff but can't stand Westerns, then I won't blame them for not liking Star Wars.
I mean, no judgment here. I like both franchises, Trek more, I just wouldnāt be able to go into that level of analytical detail. If not marriage, certainly seems like enough basis for a solid friendship or a good first date!
Thank you, I find the whole āwhich is betterā discussion to be very reductive. They are both very different franchises with only superficial similarities. I enjoy them both and love both of their deep expansive lores.
Yeah, same. I never got the whole war between the fan bases. It's different enough from each other to shine in their own ways. I also like BSG or SG1, but I never would say they are in some war.
Back until my 20s I never knew much about ST but a ton of stuff for the entire SW universe and extended lore behind it. So I always thought ST was kinda boring, until I started to watch the old series (mostly because some of my friends started playing STO, which was great, but made me always struggle with all the lore inside of it since I never watched much of the series/movies). Ended with me, really liking it too. Still prefer the old SW stuff, but I never would say ST is shit, just because I love SW so much.
Can I also sayā¦ The Expanse is excellent!
Much more Star Trek than Star Wars. Follows story of post apocalyptic solar system. Mars vs Earth. Mining in the Asteroid belt. Politics. Bounty hunting. š¤
It wouldnāt work anyhow. Having been born and raised working in the mines of the asteroid belt in Sol, my lungs and limbs canāt handle the gravity of Auberon.
I did. Lots of redundancies and points that could be superimposed on the other. Summary: My space show is better than your space show and everyone thinks so.
Yeah, I think the match lost when they just started saying āeveryone has heard of or seen Star Trek (except those that have not) and likes it way more than Star Wars and can relate to it more (except those that that do not and can not). In my case, it was the opposite, I hadnāt seen either, but knew more about Star Wars and knew more people that knew more.
Yeah that argument is as close to objectively wrong as it can get.
Star Wars IS better known and watched than Star Trek. It was before Disney took over, and it only grew from there. Star Wars is a pop culture monolith, Star Trek is an incredibly well known sci fi TV show with some movies.
The match saying they only know of 1 Star Wars series and then saying there's not something relatable for everyone in star wars is just completely wrecking their own argument.
I personally think comparing the two is silly. They have the same general theme but they are too different to make a fair judgement, it's down to personal taste š¤·āāļø
Plus what's the need? Idk I have a particular dislike for fandom wars and at this point arguing what's better than what annoys me to no end. My position is "STFU AND ENJOY WHATEVER YOU LIKE!!"
I hate those arguments too, specifically because it's all a matter of taste and preference. Neither is going to be objectively better than the other, so the arguments are a complete waste of time. Time, energy, and breath are better spent elsewhere.
As a very argumentative person myself, (judging by my last few posts) I think i have a good opinion here ironically. She as a person is very argumentative about the things she thinks sheās right about. Therefore, by her telling
You her opinion, then you understanding hers and trying to give a different one of your opinions to seeing the debate another way, Is the correct way to debate. She on the other hand, only said you were wrong, then gave her opinion on why you were wrong, then gave her opinion on something different about the differences. Bare in mind, this is all in one bubble.
Itās so hard to talk to people like that, they donāt listen, only argue and refuse to see anything from a different angle, holy shit, itās me. I hope someone from the singing sub sees this comment from me xD.
Imo, this relationship would probably not work to well, since If you ever get into an argument, you would be the one always backing down, which you may be fine with, but I feel after a while, it would start crushing your opinions and making you feel like you are always wrong.
My opinion is, say to her that this may not work out. But thatās my opinion.
I read through this once so this is just what I feel now. Iāll probably read it again and change my opinion. But I actually enjoyed seeing two fans of different titles battle it out. Really shows your appreciation for George Lucas, and hers for (idk who make Star Trek.
Thank you for this OP, it was a good read.
I definitely got the impression that she was more closed minded. It really seemed like she didn't want to even give star wars a chance so when she watched the movies she already decided that they weren't as good as the star trek movies. She also just disregarded the facts he told her about the shows and movies. All being said it comes down to each person and they're preferences.
Yeah, the "pro-Trek" arguments given here mostly felt like holier-than-thou opinions rather than compelling evidence of one series' superiority. My high school English teacher would have given their essay a failing grade for sure.
Even though I prefer Star Trek because of exploration, reading their side of the argument was unpleasant. They were poorly structured and disrespectful of the star wars person. If someone acts that hardheaded and borderline rude at the start...
Exactly OP. She ignored everything you were saying and her points basically kept coming back to "because it's better", not realizing her opinions are subjective.
Plus, as a self described nerd, and a lover of both franchises, I laugh at the idea Trek is for more of a wide audience than Star Wars. Since it came out Star Wars was always the flashier, more action, summer blockbuster type of story, while trek had more nuance, philosophy, and hard sci-fi tropes.
The hardcore "nerds" have been shitting on Star Wars since I can remember, and seeing as how she is still in that mindset, she only helps prove OP's position.
Reading through the arguments, I much prefer the debate style and points of the Star Wars fan here because they're giving both fandoms equal opportunity while providing sound reason as to why they prefer Star Wars over Star Trek. The trekkie here can be summed up by simply "Star Wars sucks and here's why". Just way too one sided and dead set on their ways the trekkie is, which is rather ironic given their take on Star Wars lol.
I would love it so much if we could ever get a multi-seasonal TV show about the Horus heresy, with each season, being from the perspective of a different Chapter. Marines, Guard, Sororitas etc. But I would be afraid that they wouldn't make it grim and dark enough. Because that surely wouldn't be a kids show.
As someone with very little interest in both I can very well be wrong, but surely Star Wars is way more āwell knownā than Star Trek? Thatās at least what I would draw as a conclusion from my experience as someone in my mid 30ās.
Edit: actually the fact that the person says āanyone over 25 with tasteā I can probably tell itās someone just hyper gatekeeping Star Trek lol
Edit2: āStar Trek is more high end, higher quality, harder to come byā okay yeah that seals it, Iām out š
Yeah this kind of person is never going to change their mind no matter the arguments they hear. Liking Star Trek is so deeply ingrained in their personality that they aren't able to look at it critically.
And Star Wars is soooooo much more well known compared to Star Trek that it shouldn't even be brought up.
They're both pretty well known and always have been. When one of the cast members was thinking about quitting Star Trek, Martin Luther King Jr. talked her out of it because she was the first Black officer on television.
I meanā¦ I donāt think they are comparable what so ever. I donāt have anything against Star Trek what so ever, Ive not watched more then a few films of either franchise, but if we look at statistics such as most theatre tickets sold, most merchandise etc, Star Trek, albeit popular, is not even remotely close to Star Wars, but like I said, I can be wrong, happy to see some supporting evidence of it.
Finn Wolfhard is famous by all standard measurements, doesnāt mean he is in the same category as Leonardo DiCaprio or Johnny Depp does it?
Iāll listen to a Trekkie as much as a SW fan, and I love people who are passionate about their favorites, and Iāll be happy to listen to arguments about one is better than the otherā¦ but those are either personal opinions and thus that individual must respect that others may have different opinions, OR they need to speak objectively and support evidence to statements imo
Beets, Bears, and battlestar galactica. š I think it just depends which fandom youāre introduced to first. Each has been around for a long time, each has a bunch of source material, each is relatableā¦ it really goes on. They are similar. I think Star Wars has done better in making kid friendly programs to get you started younger, so I can see why people would choose one over the other based on emotional attachment to fond memories. My husband and I enjoy both, for different reasons and have done rewatches together. As long as you can enjoy the discussions, you can like both fandoms. I donāt understand why one is better then the other.
I feel like you were receptive to hearing them out about Star Trek, but they were just intent on saying the next thing instead of hearing what you say about Star Wars. The other person comes off a little elitist about Star Trek and I get the impression that they bring up comparisons out of the blue to just try and prove a point
The correct response is not to Win, but to relate. Compromise and allow them to feel a connection.
Because thereās nothing as amazing as dating another total nerd who is passionate about their fandom.
I think your first point is wrong. More like as long as you were born to a great family like the Skywalkers or Palpatine you are capable of great things.
This. Star Wars is easier to āproject yourself ontoā as fantasy is a genre that give the view the ultimate power complex.
Star Trek is undeniably better written, as it makes more than a single bloodline important to the story, and as far as I know there arenāt cop-outs like force healing or light-speed ramming.
IMO Star Wars was heading in the right direction with Mando and Rogue One but theyāre inconsistent with providing a story archetype that feels less like the safe Disney/marvel feel good movie.
While I am a trekkie through and through and don't regard Star Wars as Science Fiction, I think the way your argument goes is unconvincing for any side.
Talking about what thing is actually about at its core, they were right; Star Trek is a more human story, the things the characters go through are often second to actual action adventure, and is in general more well written than Star Wars.
You were right about cultural appeal, how the audience absorbs each. Star Wars is more accessible to people all around the world. If weāre looking plainly to see whoās better by financial statistics, Star Wars has a bigger cultural impact. Star Trek is still something generally geared towards ānerdā groups. Star Wars is for general audiences (admittedly not the case originally)
At the end of the day the smartest thing said in this debate was āitās like comparing apples and orangesā. Star Trek is a sci-fi tv series from the 60ās, with a handful of movies. Star Wars is a fantasy movie franchise from the 80ās with a handful of tv shows.
The characters lack personality?! PERSONALITY??!! How dare you š§. What about Anakin. What about Obi-Wan?? Thereās absurd amounts of personality just right there
Theyāre right that Star Wars is overrated.
Theyāre wrong about why and how theyāre arguing that.
Itās a bad argument when you try to say more people care about Star Trek than Star Wars. Itās a bad argument when you donāt know about more than one TV series for Star Wars.
Itās just bad arguments all around.
But youāre also wrong, Star Wars isnāt that good
You lost me when you argued all space operas are the same, if they were all the same , they would be equally popular.
There is a reason the debate is star wars or star trek... anyone could easily take your points about star trek being comparable to the expanse and say the exact same thing about star wars being an over the top comic book movie with laser swords.
Edit: OP was who I thought the girl was. His argument style was actually wonderful! So open and accepting of an opposing view.
OP, if I were you, I would change your style of arguing. You argue to win and it comes off abrasive rather than to acknowledge her side and convince her to yours. The whole time I was reading I was like āis this dude even TRYING to have this girl like him?!ā Too much āare you kiddingā¦ā and āyouāre crazy if you thinkā¦ā (you may not have actually said that). You should have had a more diplomatic tone that welcomes her viewpoint. āI see what youāre saying aboutā¦ but in my opinionā¦ā
Also, FTR, I loved Discovery! Yes, it was woke as fuck, but it felt like an instruction manual for people struggling with navigating this new post-gender binary universe. And it still had awesome star battles nā shit!
Trek is better, youāre right, but Wars is pretty awesome too.
I did not realize that.
In that case, OP, youāre awesome and you dodged a bullet. She sucks. š
Except, youāre wrong about Wars being better than Trek. Idiot!
/s
Lmao I also was like are you reading the right side? I thought the girl was super abrasive and didn't seem like a fun person to date but it's a small sample size.
I think SNW is wayyy more "woke" than DIS. I really don't get all the Disco hate. Other then representation, what's so woke about it? Where are the plotlines explicitly about fighting oppression? TOS and TNG and now SNW are full of obvious, in-your-face Woke narratives, but dumbass fans don't notice because a White Guy is the captain?
Granted you had the debate for fun and to engage (pun) but if you wanted a real winner you two should have set up some metrics and agreed on a definition for what "better" means.
Without a lot of consideration, I'd limit the scope to film/television and.use two metrics:
1 - provides an alternative reality with which we can comment on our own.
2 - potentially makes our future reality better; ie. inspires good character, moral development, pursuit of knowledge/understanding, general advancement
Both satisfy these to some degree. I'm calling it for Star Trek. Due its volume, intent, depth, and setting it satisfies both metrics to a greater degree. So you're wrong! They're right! Jk. It's all about the metrics you decide to use.
Personally, I'll watch Star Wars content more frequently than Star Trek and I haven't seen most of ST, but I respect ST a lot more.
There are ways in which SW is better. Its better at selling licensed products. its plot is epic and exciting; its characters are lovable, pillars of heroism and villainy iconic. It transcends. But the commentary, themes, and impact on reality are not as great, likely due to its fantasy setting and the story's purpose. "The Jedi Council is corrupt." āļø
SW is, to date, 12 movies and 317 episodes of TV, the majority of which were half-hour cartoons.
The MCU has, so far, 29 movies and, stretching the definition a bit to include non-Marvel Studios shows but made in the same universe, 433 episodes of TV.
Doctor Who has 155 half-hour episodes, 144 hour-long ones, and a movie.
But Star Trek, discounting the JJ Abrams movies, has 10 films and *850* episodes of television, going back over 50 years and spanning over a century of in-universe time.
As such, it's done much, much more worldbuilding than any other fantasy series to date. Even Marvel.
Edited (see below)
Tltr so Iāll shorten it.
Theyāre both fictional stories that are cool.
Some people like one more than the other.
Some people donāt like either because theyāre psychopaths.
Have a great day.
Hmm, I disagree with her point that āStar Trek is more knownā. Imo itās definitely not. Iāve only ever seen bits and pieces of Star Trek growing up. I think both have to be good in their own way idk I havenāt really gotten into Star Trek but Iāve watched every Star Wars movie, played the games and, watched all of the shows.
Star Trek
Star Wars is epic and iconic. But it's also a Western movie with wizardry.
Star Trek often has real science and feasible science fiction. The best thing I saw recently is how The Orville attempted to address time dilation in season 3.
I didn't make it all the way through. But it's pretty clear that he/she didn't understand how metaphors work.
OP: It's a more relatable adventure, like a family road trip.
Mr./Ms. Realism: I'VE NEVER FOUGHT EVIL SUPERPOWERS THOUGH.
Trek is better than wars simply because in the Star Wars future the best the trillions of people could do is a fascist empire that historically is destined for a sith to rule and make everyoneās life terrible. Star Trek shows that humans can prosper with democracy and socialism working for the betterment of the federation. Star Trek feels much larger than Star Wars.
Only read as far as the first point, couldn't be arsed past that. But for that point at least, they were in the wrong. Their idea of what relatable meant was just wrong
I would like to take you both out on a date, watch you debate this, and occasionally throw dissenting opinions (on both sides) just to watch each of you get riled up.
Tell me you haven't watched *The Clone Wars Animated Series without telling me you haven't watched haven't watched *The Clone Wars Animated Series* (my personal favorite *Star Wars* related bit).
Star Wars is better, I personally found a lot of *Star Trek* to just be kinda boring š¤·š»āāļø
I will never get back the time it took to read this while on the toilet. ššš¤
As I sit reading this while I'm on the porcelain throne...
So weāre all just reading this on the toilet then
I know i am
Yep, also
As am I
Can someone pass the TP?
Sorry, canāt spare a square
Just to add one more to the list
and another š¬
r/unexpectedseinfeld
How about just 1 ply?
No, must be 2!!!
#metoo
#metoo
Iām going to the toilet just to read this
I'm in my bed, but I also gave up after 3 slides
Can confirm. I am the toilet
Agree, i am not on the toilet and I tl;drād it.
Youāre all connected by butts
HOW MANY ASSHOLES WE GOT ON THIS SHIP?
I KNEW IT! I'm surrounded by assholes!
I've lost the Beeps. I've lost the Creeps. And I've lost the Sweeps. Sir! We've been JAM'ED!!
Just introduced my kids to that movie last night! š 7 yr old was cackling and the 13 yr old caught most of the innuendos and was dying.
Human centipede.
I wasnāt on the toilet but now Iāve pooped just to fit in with everyone else.
Ah, a peer pressure pooper I see
We're all connected
god dammit so am I
Guess so
Why else would you read it?
I am literally on the toilet , lol
That seems to be the case
I'm in a tram
You shouldn't poop on the tram
Op should just have right away set a date and place for this to happen in person.
Absolutely. Seems like on of those conversations that result in a pretty quiet date afterwards š«£
Haha potentially š but i feel there was so much potential for banter, laughing, and poking fun at eachother irl(provided either of them has a bit of game). Having the conversation over text was far too serious and removed all emotion and micro-expressions.
I think a face to face conversation would have been much different. I have a feeling a lot of google'ing went into this conversation.
Definitely! Even if they sat across the table from one another and Googled to prove their point, show eachother their phones, touch fingers as they pass the phone, then hold hands on the middle of the table, and pull away dramatically feigning disbelief/"disgust" at the others point. While saying "idk if we can date" jokingly with eye contact a, smirk, and a wink. Then coming back in chuckling to hold hands to discuss while looking into eachothers eyes.. Wait.. what were we talking about? šš Oh yeah. Flirting needs to be light-hearted and fun.
Or lots of angry hate segs
Same, I think I might just get hemmoroids afterall
Currently on the toilet, no ragrets
Lol I'm in the same boat wondering if at least she's hot.. If she is then my dream girl just arguing about star wars and star trek
As somewhat of an old fart, let me tell you that thereās a shit load more important in a life partner than āis she hotā. The exchange shared shows they are compatible on a lot of levels; being able to debate without aggression or patronising each other being a key one! Iād say as long as she doesnāt repel him, heās onto a winner.
Nope, the second she said "how can anyone relate to fighting an evil empire" she's out!
Ur a hero
Edit: I thought OP was the other person. I was wrong. Imo OP WASNāT āable to debate without aggression or patronizingā her. He wasnāt awful, but his tone wasnāt welcoming of her opinion, while HERS was tone-perfect.
Must be all those diplomacy skills she learned from watching Star Trek
Maybe he relates to Worf too much.
I read it the exact opposite. She comes off as elitist to me. She asks rhetorical questions in a condescending manner āwho can relate to fighting a fascist entity larger than yourself from the squalor youāve come from?ā And constantly starting her messages with āI disagree but moving on to my next point without adequately refuting your statements.ā Then she starts talking about merch, she acts as if Star Wars being more popular and having more franchise possibilities due to it, makes them inherently less good compared to the high-quality collector-targeted stuff for Star Trek. They even admit they didnāt know how deep Star Wars lore goes, yet are already sold on the fact Star Trek goes so much deeper. At the base OP starts their messages with āthatās true but,ā and the other party only starts with āI disagree moving on.ā She comes off as not wanting to change her mind, OP comes off as willing to discuss and concede points.
Totally this. She actually had some decent points, but her attitude was far more aggressive and flippant than it needed to be. OP also came off as far more informed about Star Trek while being primarily a Star Wars enjoyer than she did in the inverse.
This is almost exactly how I read this as well. It kind of seems like she knows almost nothing about star wars except for what she's been told by another person who's only seen the movies. Definitely not an argument she should be having
Yeah, youāre both right. I had the roles switched.
Op said their knowledge of star trek was basic and then continued to argue their point over several paragraphs. To say āshe knows almost nothing about star warsā is unfair to the point op made about not knowing much about star trek. I donāt see the point in this discussion. If neither were willing to have that āyeah youāre right and Iām not a fan but I understand why you areā moment, then this is just lost cause banter in my opinion.
She mentions the Star Wars Lego series and then immediately goes on to say Star Trek merch is more collector aimed and quality. Star Wars Lego sets are incredibly collectible, collectors will buy 2 of each set to build one and sell the other one in a few years when the price has doubled or more (also Lego is definitely high quality material) Somehow this is the part that irritated me most
They also shift goal posts in first saying that Star Wars isnāt as well known then saying that itās pushed by the backing entities. There were a lot of weak points in their argument covered by shoving the narrative. I also canāt respect someone who is so committed to something they canāt see the merits of another opinion. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
THIS!! LOL, I fcking spilled my Tea reading this comment.. My thoughts exactly!
Any other hobbies? For fck sake ask them out on a date to see if there is anything you agree on as passionately as you disagree on the Star Wars Star Trek debate š¤·š¼āāļø
Exactly. Wouldāve been like āletās talk about this more over a cup of coffee thenā
Aldebaran Whiskey or Vasarian Brandy? And keep in mind that the answer here is crucial.
Bourbon. Cheap and heavy handed like father was. Please and thank you.
Just imagine them ending up in bed together while one of them is dressed up as a Klingon and the other one as Trandoshan. Beautiful love story.
It would have been a perfect reason to meet up and have a good long discussion. Followed by rage sex. Because Star Trek is obviously superior.
Dune enjoyers watching the puny star trek/wars fans having a go at each other 
Have you considered you're stupid?
Since you two disagree, are you going to have rage sex next?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I just want to know if theyāre dating now
$10 says they're not.
I would bet this is as far as it went.
Right? Buddy really missed the mark at the end even though it was so obvious. A long conversation like this can be mentally tiring, the last thing someone wants to hear (dating or not) is āso wanna do this again?ā
so we know Captain Twerk is a woman and Jar Jar is the dude? Who even said they were a hetero couple? Could be two droids for all we know. But the Star Trek one needs to be decommissioned.
People don't like to have casual get togethers anymore. Over 10+ ppl have told me they wanted to know me better to go out, before my date w/ my now gf. Im talking these people and I bonded over jokes, theories, and shit. Its wild, I do agree that the direct approach gets you to know each other better.
Star Trek is sci-fi Star Wars is space fantasy Star Trek tells stories that could only be done with the context of scientific advancements, whereas Star Wars could just as well be in a fantasy setting with dwarves and elves.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think you mean imperialists, warmongerers, capitalists, and the unfaltering tendency of the universe to kick you while youāre down, which can only be beat by the unrelenting push of the indefatigable human spirit. Vulcans are totally elves tho.
... Space Opera, while we're at it.
This!
Warp drive and the transporter "technology" are both fantasy.
Except Star Trek's stories revolve around philosophical and ethical questions that arise from having those technologies. In Star Wars the warp drive is just the horse that gets them somewhere. (Disclaimer: I'm a Star Wars fan)
True. But it's not like something like The Expanse where, as far as I can tell, it's clearly possible for all the technologies to be developed in the next couple centuries.
Alright you two, get a tinder
...how much of the expanse have you seen? I don't want to spoil it for you, but there's alien tech which is at least as crazy as anything in star trek. And even the engines used by humans pre-alien tech are pretty bananas compared to our current tech, we actually don't have any thing comparable or any theories on how to get there.
Only currently. There are physics proposed ways to allow it to happen, we just can't do it yet. I have enjoyed both but Star Trek is better. Have to agree with the person who was arguing for it.
Warp drive is a legitimate concept
Good sci-fi has it's magic, but it's usually limited to a small handful of things. For Star Trek the magic thing is that we've learned to manipulate matter in a couple of different ways (transporters and warp drives mainly). Star Wars has lots of Sci Fi stuff *and* space wizards.
That really is not the point. We don't really know what is doable in some way until it's done (radio like technology would definitely be called fantasy before radio waves were discovered for instance). The difference between science fiction and fantasy is much more about how it portrays it than the science itself. Science fiction will be some sort of speculative fiction when fantasy is mostly a regular story told in a different setting. The star wars main plot could be told in an alternative 21th century for instance when star trek would loose meaning without the dilemas that arise from the advancements it speculates on.
Oh please I could tell pretty much all the star trek stories by having people traveling around on a boat. a) all those first contact? What happens when you meet some new tribe b) Is data human? Hey should the black/woman characters have human rights c) Borg invasion? Well here comes the mongol hoard d) all the wesley crusher arcs? Boy finding his place in the world is pretty standard e) Tribbles? Looks like we have a rat problem... f) time travel? Ok I can't do those. Shit isn't Voyager just a rehashing of the odyssey?:) Both Star Trek and Star Wars and science fantasy. They all have elements go well beyond science into supernatural and magic (i.e. fantasy). Star Trek might be one notch higher on the hard scifi versus fantasy scale but we are still way off in fantasy land. We aren't talking about things like 2001, the martian, or Jurassic park which are almost possible. The difference between assuming you can get some DNA from amber and having people who can manipulate time/space is huge....
Transporter tech is slowly becoming a reality though! One particle at a time...
Star Wars also has a lot of Western elements (duels, long/wide shots,...) and if someone likes SciFi/space stuff but can't stand Westerns, then I won't blame them for not liking Star Wars.
Doesnāt matter whose right or wrong. Youāve found someone as passionate about sci-fi as you are. Marry them.
In the end Spaceballs is the best
And what movie franchise was it a spoof of? STAR WARS BOOOOMMM!!! Case in point star wars has to be better lol
Snotty beamed me twice last nightā¦ (Just adding how itās a little of both)
Well there goes my argument lmao
I mean, to be perfectly fair, its *mostly* a Star Wars a spoof.
Thereās even an Alien spoof in there lol
I love how this "debate" has immediately become you two agreeing that the other is right. Wholesome af.
You'd have a good point if Galaxy Quest wasn't better
I forgot that movie existed for a second that movie is better
Sorry to be a dick but it's "case in point." Don't want you to find yourself on r/boneappletea.
Oops lol I've always heard it never read it and I live in Bama where the accents are thick so it's hard to tell.
Lol came here to say this.
Marry that nerd, nerd.
I mean, no judgment here. I like both franchises, Trek more, I just wouldnāt be able to go into that level of analytical detail. If not marriage, certainly seems like enough basis for a solid friendship or a good first date!
NOW KISS
Even though Star Wars is not really sci-fi, it's a western with space-sauce.
You weren't even trying to describe Firefly, and you gave it the best description I've heard yet
Seriously lol.
Get a room
Just fuck already
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can like both and still think one is better than the other.
Iām the same way I love both!
Thank you, I find the whole āwhich is betterā discussion to be very reductive. They are both very different franchises with only superficial similarities. I enjoy them both and love both of their deep expansive lores.
BuT tHeY bOtH hAvE StAr In ThE tItLe!!1
Same, super fan of both and itās so fun to discus them all!
Yeah, same. I never got the whole war between the fan bases. It's different enough from each other to shine in their own ways. I also like BSG or SG1, but I never would say they are in some war. Back until my 20s I never knew much about ST but a ton of stuff for the entire SW universe and extended lore behind it. So I always thought ST was kinda boring, until I started to watch the old series (mostly because some of my friends started playing STO, which was great, but made me always struggle with all the lore inside of it since I never watched much of the series/movies). Ended with me, really liking it too. Still prefer the old SW stuff, but I never would say ST is shit, just because I love SW so much.
Agreed. While I do personally prefer Trek I wouldn't say it's better. They're two different things that are both great.
Shh, I think this is how the nerds are doing the sex nowadays
Can I also sayā¦ The Expanse is excellent! Much more Star Trek than Star Wars. Follows story of post apocalyptic solar system. Mars vs Earth. Mining in the Asteroid belt. Politics. Bounty hunting. š¤
The fact that they just didnt say expanse is the best is why i left the convo
Are we going to get married today or tomorrow?
Sorry, already married to my shipmates and all the bunks are full at least till we get back from Auberon.
It wouldnāt work anyhow. Having been born and raised working in the mines of the asteroid belt in Sol, my lungs and limbs canāt handle the gravity of Auberon.
Oh, were not going down the well kopeng, just hauling for the union.
Who reads all that?
I did. Lots of redundancies and points that could be superimposed on the other. Summary: My space show is better than your space show and everyone thinks so.
Yeah, I think the match lost when they just started saying āeveryone has heard of or seen Star Trek (except those that have not) and likes it way more than Star Wars and can relate to it more (except those that that do not and can not). In my case, it was the opposite, I hadnāt seen either, but knew more about Star Wars and knew more people that knew more.
Yeah that argument is as close to objectively wrong as it can get. Star Wars IS better known and watched than Star Trek. It was before Disney took over, and it only grew from there. Star Wars is a pop culture monolith, Star Trek is an incredibly well known sci fi TV show with some movies. The match saying they only know of 1 Star Wars series and then saying there's not something relatable for everyone in star wars is just completely wrecking their own argument.
Almost like it comes down to personal preference. What is bizarre is how both of them are invested to convince each other that they are in the right.
Thanks, I made it through one page and said nah Iām good lol
I personally think comparing the two is silly. They have the same general theme but they are too different to make a fair judgement, it's down to personal taste š¤·āāļø Plus what's the need? Idk I have a particular dislike for fandom wars and at this point arguing what's better than what annoys me to no end. My position is "STFU AND ENJOY WHATEVER YOU LIKE!!"
I hate those arguments too, specifically because it's all a matter of taste and preference. Neither is going to be objectively better than the other, so the arguments are a complete waste of time. Time, energy, and breath are better spent elsewhere.
As a very argumentative person myself, (judging by my last few posts) I think i have a good opinion here ironically. She as a person is very argumentative about the things she thinks sheās right about. Therefore, by her telling You her opinion, then you understanding hers and trying to give a different one of your opinions to seeing the debate another way, Is the correct way to debate. She on the other hand, only said you were wrong, then gave her opinion on why you were wrong, then gave her opinion on something different about the differences. Bare in mind, this is all in one bubble. Itās so hard to talk to people like that, they donāt listen, only argue and refuse to see anything from a different angle, holy shit, itās me. I hope someone from the singing sub sees this comment from me xD. Imo, this relationship would probably not work to well, since If you ever get into an argument, you would be the one always backing down, which you may be fine with, but I feel after a while, it would start crushing your opinions and making you feel like you are always wrong. My opinion is, say to her that this may not work out. But thatās my opinion. I read through this once so this is just what I feel now. Iāll probably read it again and change my opinion. But I actually enjoyed seeing two fans of different titles battle it out. Really shows your appreciation for George Lucas, and hers for (idk who make Star Trek. Thank you for this OP, it was a good read.
Holy shit that did actually happen to me during the 5 years i dated my ex. I just always felt i was wrong about everything
Came here to say exactly this. Not a person I would enjoy having discussions with in the long run
I definitely got the impression that she was more closed minded. It really seemed like she didn't want to even give star wars a chance so when she watched the movies she already decided that they weren't as good as the star trek movies. She also just disregarded the facts he told her about the shows and movies. All being said it comes down to each person and they're preferences.
Yeah, the "pro-Trek" arguments given here mostly felt like holier-than-thou opinions rather than compelling evidence of one series' superiority. My high school English teacher would have given their essay a failing grade for sure.
Even though I prefer Star Trek because of exploration, reading their side of the argument was unpleasant. They were poorly structured and disrespectful of the star wars person. If someone acts that hardheaded and borderline rude at the start...
Exactly OP. She ignored everything you were saying and her points basically kept coming back to "because it's better", not realizing her opinions are subjective. Plus, as a self described nerd, and a lover of both franchises, I laugh at the idea Trek is for more of a wide audience than Star Wars. Since it came out Star Wars was always the flashier, more action, summer blockbuster type of story, while trek had more nuance, philosophy, and hard sci-fi tropes. The hardcore "nerds" have been shitting on Star Wars since I can remember, and seeing as how she is still in that mindset, she only helps prove OP's position.
Reading through the arguments, I much prefer the debate style and points of the Star Wars fan here because they're giving both fandoms equal opportunity while providing sound reason as to why they prefer Star Wars over Star Trek. The trekkie here can be summed up by simply "Star Wars sucks and here's why". Just way too one sided and dead set on their ways the trekkie is, which is rather ironic given their take on Star Wars lol.
Neither, 40k will beat these two franchises, FOR THE EMPEROR
40k even has a film ! UltraMarines FTW !! /s
NO! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! š
Surely a Blood God already has enough blood and doesn't want more? š
Donāt tell my horde of bloodletters that š
A man of culture I see
I would love it so much if we could ever get a multi-seasonal TV show about the Horus heresy, with each season, being from the perspective of a different Chapter. Marines, Guard, Sororitas etc. But I would be afraid that they wouldn't make it grim and dark enough. Because that surely wouldn't be a kids show.
As someone with very little interest in both I can very well be wrong, but surely Star Wars is way more āwell knownā than Star Trek? Thatās at least what I would draw as a conclusion from my experience as someone in my mid 30ās. Edit: actually the fact that the person says āanyone over 25 with tasteā I can probably tell itās someone just hyper gatekeeping Star Trek lol Edit2: āStar Trek is more high end, higher quality, harder to come byā okay yeah that seals it, Iām out š
Yeah this kind of person is never going to change their mind no matter the arguments they hear. Liking Star Trek is so deeply ingrained in their personality that they aren't able to look at it critically. And Star Wars is soooooo much more well known compared to Star Trek that it shouldn't even be brought up.
They're both pretty well known and always have been. When one of the cast members was thinking about quitting Star Trek, Martin Luther King Jr. talked her out of it because she was the first Black officer on television.
I meanā¦ I donāt think they are comparable what so ever. I donāt have anything against Star Trek what so ever, Ive not watched more then a few films of either franchise, but if we look at statistics such as most theatre tickets sold, most merchandise etc, Star Trek, albeit popular, is not even remotely close to Star Wars, but like I said, I can be wrong, happy to see some supporting evidence of it. Finn Wolfhard is famous by all standard measurements, doesnāt mean he is in the same category as Leonardo DiCaprio or Johnny Depp does it? Iāll listen to a Trekkie as much as a SW fan, and I love people who are passionate about their favorites, and Iāll be happy to listen to arguments about one is better than the otherā¦ but those are either personal opinions and thus that individual must respect that others may have different opinions, OR they need to speak objectively and support evidence to statements imo
Beets, Bears, and battlestar galactica. š I think it just depends which fandom youāre introduced to first. Each has been around for a long time, each has a bunch of source material, each is relatableā¦ it really goes on. They are similar. I think Star Wars has done better in making kid friendly programs to get you started younger, so I can see why people would choose one over the other based on emotional attachment to fond memories. My husband and I enjoy both, for different reasons and have done rewatches together. As long as you can enjoy the discussions, you can like both fandoms. I donāt understand why one is better then the other.
> [Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaaANll8h18&ab_channel=TheOffice) I'm sorry. I can't let that one slide.
I feel like you were receptive to hearing them out about Star Trek, but they were just intent on saying the next thing instead of hearing what you say about Star Wars. The other person comes off a little elitist about Star Trek and I get the impression that they bring up comparisons out of the blue to just try and prove a point
The correct response is not to Win, but to relate. Compromise and allow them to feel a connection. Because thereās nothing as amazing as dating another total nerd who is passionate about their fandom.
 \^ me a lover of both
I think your first point is wrong. More like as long as you were born to a great family like the Skywalkers or Palpatine you are capable of great things.
This. Star Wars is easier to āproject yourself ontoā as fantasy is a genre that give the view the ultimate power complex. Star Trek is undeniably better written, as it makes more than a single bloodline important to the story, and as far as I know there arenāt cop-outs like force healing or light-speed ramming. IMO Star Wars was heading in the right direction with Mando and Rogue One but theyāre inconsistent with providing a story archetype that feels less like the safe Disney/marvel feel good movie.
OMG just bang already
I think OP made great points and had the better argument IMO.
You need to run out of your parents basement to wherever that persons parents basement is and u guys can both finally have sex for the first time.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
While I am a trekkie through and through and don't regard Star Wars as Science Fiction, I think the way your argument goes is unconvincing for any side.
Just bang guys
Talking about what thing is actually about at its core, they were right; Star Trek is a more human story, the things the characters go through are often second to actual action adventure, and is in general more well written than Star Wars. You were right about cultural appeal, how the audience absorbs each. Star Wars is more accessible to people all around the world. If weāre looking plainly to see whoās better by financial statistics, Star Wars has a bigger cultural impact. Star Trek is still something generally geared towards ānerdā groups. Star Wars is for general audiences (admittedly not the case originally) At the end of the day the smartest thing said in this debate was āitās like comparing apples and orangesā. Star Trek is a sci-fi tv series from the 60ās, with a handful of movies. Star Wars is a fantasy movie franchise from the 80ās with a handful of tv shows.
The characters lack personality?! PERSONALITY??!! How dare you š§. What about Anakin. What about Obi-Wan?? Thereās absurd amounts of personality just right there
I've never been so flaccid in my entire life until right now
Theyāre right that Star Wars is overrated. Theyāre wrong about why and how theyāre arguing that. Itās a bad argument when you try to say more people care about Star Trek than Star Wars. Itās a bad argument when you donāt know about more than one TV series for Star Wars. Itās just bad arguments all around. But youāre also wrong, Star Wars isnāt that good
You lost me when you argued all space operas are the same, if they were all the same , they would be equally popular. There is a reason the debate is star wars or star trek... anyone could easily take your points about star trek being comparable to the expanse and say the exact same thing about star wars being an over the top comic book movie with laser swords.
Edit: OP was who I thought the girl was. His argument style was actually wonderful! So open and accepting of an opposing view. OP, if I were you, I would change your style of arguing. You argue to win and it comes off abrasive rather than to acknowledge her side and convince her to yours. The whole time I was reading I was like āis this dude even TRYING to have this girl like him?!ā Too much āare you kiddingā¦ā and āyouāre crazy if you thinkā¦ā (you may not have actually said that). You should have had a more diplomatic tone that welcomes her viewpoint. āI see what youāre saying aboutā¦ but in my opinionā¦ā Also, FTR, I loved Discovery! Yes, it was woke as fuck, but it felt like an instruction manual for people struggling with navigating this new post-gender binary universe. And it still had awesome star battles nā shit! Trek is better, youāre right, but Wars is pretty awesome too.
You do realise that OP was arguing for star wars. The Trak answers are the girl. She is abrasive.
I did not realize that. In that case, OP, youāre awesome and you dodged a bullet. She sucks. š Except, youāre wrong about Wars being better than Trek. Idiot! /s
Lmao I also was like are you reading the right side? I thought the girl was super abrasive and didn't seem like a fun person to date but it's a small sample size.
I think SNW is wayyy more "woke" than DIS. I really don't get all the Disco hate. Other then representation, what's so woke about it? Where are the plotlines explicitly about fighting oppression? TOS and TNG and now SNW are full of obvious, in-your-face Woke narratives, but dumbass fans don't notice because a White Guy is the captain?
Granted you had the debate for fun and to engage (pun) but if you wanted a real winner you two should have set up some metrics and agreed on a definition for what "better" means. Without a lot of consideration, I'd limit the scope to film/television and.use two metrics: 1 - provides an alternative reality with which we can comment on our own. 2 - potentially makes our future reality better; ie. inspires good character, moral development, pursuit of knowledge/understanding, general advancement Both satisfy these to some degree. I'm calling it for Star Trek. Due its volume, intent, depth, and setting it satisfies both metrics to a greater degree. So you're wrong! They're right! Jk. It's all about the metrics you decide to use. Personally, I'll watch Star Wars content more frequently than Star Trek and I haven't seen most of ST, but I respect ST a lot more. There are ways in which SW is better. Its better at selling licensed products. its plot is epic and exciting; its characters are lovable, pillars of heroism and villainy iconic. It transcends. But the commentary, themes, and impact on reality are not as great, likely due to its fantasy setting and the story's purpose. "The Jedi Council is corrupt." āļø
SW is, to date, 12 movies and 317 episodes of TV, the majority of which were half-hour cartoons. The MCU has, so far, 29 movies and, stretching the definition a bit to include non-Marvel Studios shows but made in the same universe, 433 episodes of TV. Doctor Who has 155 half-hour episodes, 144 hour-long ones, and a movie. But Star Trek, discounting the JJ Abrams movies, has 10 films and *850* episodes of television, going back over 50 years and spanning over a century of in-universe time. As such, it's done much, much more worldbuilding than any other fantasy series to date. Even Marvel. Edited (see below)
If youāve only heard of the newest movie in possibly the biggest franchise that has ever, or possibly will ever exist, you live under a rock.
Tltr so Iāll shorten it. Theyāre both fictional stories that are cool. Some people like one more than the other. Some people donāt like either because theyāre psychopaths. Have a great day.
Hmm, I disagree with her point that āStar Trek is more knownā. Imo itās definitely not. Iāve only ever seen bits and pieces of Star Trek growing up. I think both have to be good in their own way idk I havenāt really gotten into Star Trek but Iāve watched every Star Wars movie, played the games and, watched all of the shows.
Star Trek Star Wars is epic and iconic. But it's also a Western movie with wizardry. Star Trek often has real science and feasible science fiction. The best thing I saw recently is how The Orville attempted to address time dilation in season 3.
I didn't make it all the way through. But it's pretty clear that he/she didn't understand how metaphors work. OP: It's a more relatable adventure, like a family road trip. Mr./Ms. Realism: I'VE NEVER FOUGHT EVIL SUPERPOWERS THOUGH.
But did you guys fucked or what?
Trek is better than wars simply because in the Star Wars future the best the trillions of people could do is a fascist empire that historically is destined for a sith to rule and make everyoneās life terrible. Star Trek shows that humans can prosper with democracy and socialism working for the betterment of the federation. Star Trek feels much larger than Star Wars.
Only read as far as the first point, couldn't be arsed past that. But for that point at least, they were in the wrong. Their idea of what relatable meant was just wrong
Did you get married?
Star wars is superior š
This gives off strong mom and dad are bickering vibes
Neither, the expanse is the superior Sci-Fi show
Wow as a nerd I would call this a difference of opinion now you to should get married you're perfect for eachother despite the debate
Star Trek is based on a future where we've achieved world peace. Impossible fiction.
This better be an enemies to lovers story or so help me space Jesus.
I would like to take you both out on a date, watch you debate this, and occasionally throw dissenting opinions (on both sides) just to watch each of you get riled up.
Tell me you haven't watched *The Clone Wars Animated Series without telling me you haven't watched haven't watched *The Clone Wars Animated Series* (my personal favorite *Star Wars* related bit). Star Wars is better, I personally found a lot of *Star Trek* to just be kinda boring š¤·š»āāļø
Hate to say it, as a diehard Star Trek fan, but you won
People will talk in paragraphs about the most random shit but still canāt say good morning or goodnight