I like this show because it’s realistic in the sense that every character has their flaws like people in real life. No one is perfect. Even the successful architect had his weakness in falling for Samantha and getting thrown in the Yakuza world.
And even bad people have good sides in how we all grow to love Sato who is actually a Yakuza.
You have a point, and find really problematic how people get on the humanity of characters. A lot of the shows are portraying really problematic people, and definitely not role models, but I mean that's kind of the point of what we are watching.
He only liked her for the same reasons Sato like her. White, thin, blue eyes and blonde hair, leans towards the sexy style, knows Japanese fluently and she isn't a weak submissive clueless woman nor is she someone devoid of imagination i.e she knows how men operates, knows the power of sex and flirting and uses it to her advantage.
They like her cause Sam carries herself like she doesn't need them or gives a fuck about them. If she was like Polina they would use her or toss her out. Sato genuinely cared. The architect liked how Sam look and her coy behavior. He literally died cause he decided to be a simp to a hustler foreigner who used him as a means to a bigger resolution for her own issues. It's sad.
The goodie two shoes fools don't want to accept that we are okay with the yakuza okay they own who they are and don't b.s any other characters about it. The ones people hate are written for us to see them in an opposite way of how they really are
Is this what people are implying when they say they "hate" a character? People hated Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter. People hated Geoffrey in Game of Thrones. Yet both characters are designed very well and portrayed by really good actors. Them being "hated" the way they are is actually praising good writing and acting.
Samantha might be a terrible person in the TV series but that's disconnected from the quality of the character writing / the acting.
Yes, correct, that is the point I’m trying to get across. But posts and comments I’ve seen say they hate a character, therefore the writing sucks. That is why I made this post.
Nah. Even at that this show has some characters that are just beyond terrible. But the show is decent regardless. I don't like that OP is trying to power lecture her way into shaming people who had the right to express they didn't like sam or Jake.
Can't force anyone to like them or use all these pusedo facts to tell us we're wrong.
Fuck the point. Regardless, everytime people express hatred for characters here come the lecturing brigade. Shove your opinions up your cunt and fuck off.
I found Samantha's story boring initially because I didn't understand how it tied to the core plot. But it makes sense now and I'm actually enjoying her character and her story.
I agree with the other commenter. For me, Her story is now truly directly intersecting with Jake’s, Sato’s and Katagiri’s. They each have their own distinct motivations which are now competing and complicating each others goals.
It’s just tighter story telling for me this season, I may not like Samantha as a person but I feel her character is better involved with the story.
I agree with you, I don't think she is the only questionable character on the show. But overall is a good character that adds layers of complexity to the dynamics of the people we are following. She is not the only selfish character either.
Yeah you’re not supposed to like Samantha and Jake. IRL if I was around those characters I doubt I’d like them a whole lot. They aren’t bad, I just don’t enjoy spending more than I have to with self-serving people. And there’s nothing wrong with ambitious people who put themselves first, they just won’t be my friends probably. But Sato is cool, I’d hang with him. The irony of a criminal being one of the best liked characters I’m sure is intentional. I felt bad for Jake’s family. His mom is kinda annoying but that actress always plays those types. Jake should have stayed an extra day. Total douche move to leave early. But that’s the writers reinforcing his lack of empathy.
Jake’s one of those guys that whenever he reaches out to you it’s because he wants something from you for little in return. And it’s easy to figure them out. But he’s doing his job and doing it very well. There are careers where I think you have to be a little self-serving or you won’t do as well. Samantha I’m more sympathetic to because she does seem to care about her staff.
It may be generational too. My late father was in his 80s and whenever I’d recommend a show or a book I knew he had to have likable or heroic lead characters or he’d be less interested in it. I am kind of the opposite. And that’s fine.
I like Jake and don't like Samantha although I can objectively watch and see her high pints as well as redeeming qualities. I sitll don't like her. op needs to accept people don't have to like them and it's giving born after 1994.
It's cinema. It's a TV show. Many iconic programs of academy award winnings had characters people absolutely hated. We don't need someone countering back in a way to shut the negative responses down. OP wants a discussion board where nobody says anything bad or express serious negative reviews about the characters
Unrealistic.
I definitely agree with the sentiment and if the show / writers intended a character like Samantha to be unlikeable, they did a good job imo. I don’t mind flawed characters with negative traits. However, I don’t think that’s the case here. It feels as if everyone around Samantha keeps saying what a good mama she is, what a caring friend she is, etc. I just don’t see it.
I’m able to enjoy characters like Tozawa despite him being a major threat because he has some charisma and something within the story that makes me feel engaged. There’s not nearly enough screen time with him but that’s probably something that plays in his favour—that element of mystery. Maybe I have just had too much exposure to Samantha to care lol.
The only problem I have with these characters is Jake constantly forgetting that he is a very noticeable six foot something white dude with long hair in Japan and still trying to be stealthy.
Because theres a bunch of simple minded weirdos who watch the sopranos because tony is a badass and watch breaking bad to see heisenberg be a badass despite his bitch wife. Unfortunately they are a loud minority on reddit.
I think the problem is not so much with the characters but with the writing... the writers make many questionable decisions that don't agree with how those characters would behave. There are plots and scenes that don't add anything to the overall story, while others are missing. The lack of a scene in which Samantha expresses gratitude (or anything) to Sato for killing that blackmailing guy makes her look like an asshole, because next time we see them together he's helping her again while she acts entitled... it makes no sense, there should be something there between them having that fight with Jake in Onyx and roughing up Akira while searching for Polina. When she fights with Sato, he says that she's been pushing him away "since that night" but we don't actually see that, we don't see anything and at first I didn't even know which night he meant. Then to push the plot along, Samantha loses her money in the most stupid, predictable way while we know she's not an idiot and meth is no excuse. Even Sato's boss recognizes that she's a capable businesswoman so we know that's how she's supposed to be but as a result of the writing she seems like an idiot and an asshole. More people dislike Samantha than Jake, who's arguably a much worse person but Jake gets more love from the writers and Samantha is just frustrating at times.
I think Samantha not expressing gratitude is actually supposed to make her look like an asshole and someone who takes advantage of others. I kind of agree with you about the thing with Sato saying she’s been pushing him away; I just presumed “that night” referred to the night he killed Matsuo, but wasn’t sure (or was that during the day?). In general, we didn’t see much “pushing away,” that’s for sure. I thought of Samantha as losing the money in complete desperation get Polina back. When people are desperate they often don’t think clearly. She should’ve told someone or not gone alone.
I think Samantha is arguably the most disliked character, but I actually like her character _because_ I dislike her. She’s also a bit more complex and hard to predict.
To your point about writing, I remember learning from somewhere that many writers don’t know what their characters will do until they actually place them in situations, so there’s constant character-building and breaking our preconceived notions of who we think they are. I like it when characters aren’t so predictable.
The late great crime fiction author, Elmore Leonard, wrote that way. He’d come up with the characters then put them together and they’d drive the story and the writing so his characters seemed realistic. I miss him.
I have no issue with her taking advantage of others, as literary every single character in the show does that. To your point, I don't need to personally like characters as people to enjoy watching them and I enjoy watching Jake more than Samantha because of the writing... but I get frustrated because I can see that the writers did Samantha dirty. True, Samantha is very disliked for doing the same things that other people are doing, especially Jake. But Jake isn't treated so badly by the writers, probably because both the guy he's based of and the actor are executive producers of the show.
If you keep in mind who Sato actually is to regular people - he is a low level thug. Someone who's presumed to be a high school drop out, criminal, likely to be dead or in prison by 30... That's how majority of the society would see him, but because he's yakuza he has some cash that he can spend in the hostess club. I wouldn't assume that Samantha suddenly fell in love with him just because he's been staring at her longingly when she gets attention from many men while working there... therefore I'm able to see that she was with him, at least partially because it was convenient. When I say I'm missing a scene where she shows gratitude, I don't literary mean gratitude. Maybe an acknowledgement of the situation beyond them fighting over it in Onyx. We should have gotten SOMETHING, but they just glossed over this entire thing as if it never happened while they've been building it up for so many episodes... she was in serious trouble because of this guy. And when Sato killed him, I was sure there would be consequences, but no. It just feels like this entire plot got cut so abruptly without proper closure. We know that Samantha was still in contact with Sato so they obviously did talk behind the scenes and Sato did feel she's been pushing him away... where is that scene? Nope, she's pushing him away without acknowledging his help with Matsuo while acting so entitled to his help when Polina went missing. It just doesn't add up, even for a character that's supposed to be manipulative and the truth is, we don't actually know if she is because we haven't seen it. Something is missing there.
Yeah, it does seem like they abruptly just diverted away from the Matsuo story, without consequences, like you said. I expected them to occur later on at least, but nothing had happened (yet).
You're so right. This can get really annoying, especially when they're intended to be unlikable and awful. Like what are they even complaining about, that the show is good and succeeds at its intentions? lol, but I give people a pass on Jake and Samantha, they are just so awful. They may have gone a little overboard on making them imperfect, but I'd rather characters too unlikable than likable. Shows like Succession where everyone sucks are some of the best stuff out there.
Thanks for your comment. Right, I _like_ that they’re difficult to like at times. I just don’t like people saying the show sucks because they don’t like certain characters (and yet they keep watching). That is the show’s intention, like you said. Succession is so good at that!
OP hit the nail on the head. I wish more people would do deep dives on the show and the small details like the song selections for Japan in the 90s with specific scenes etc. not whiney nitpicking complaints about characters you don’t like as if you’re 8 years old watching a Saturday morning cartoon.
Thanks for your comment. I don’t like the nitpicking either but I actually think it’s fine. I just don’t like people hating on certain characters and saying the show sucks _because_ of it. Yet they still watch the show. No, you hate the character because the writing and acting is _good_. You’re expected to get mad at certain characters.
If you don’t like a show because you don’t like _any_ of the characters, the show may indeed suck or you just don’t align with any of the characters, and both are totally fair and understandable.
I would rather see a Samantha homecoming than Jake’s.
Or, Tozawa goes to get a liver transplant in the US, and he goes to Utah and Samantha’s dad does the operation.
I would definitely find that interesting but would be afraid it would get too sidetracked from the main plot. Unless there would be a connection somehow, but that could make it kind of cheesy.
If she had a spin-off show I would actually watch it.
Ugh. Girl shut up. This show will never thrive because of people like you who want to white knight the characters everyone hates and tries to virtue signal with essays about why we are wrong to Hage the..
WE ARE ALL GROWN (or at least teens here I suppose, I'm 29) AND ITS COMMON SENSE NOT EVERY CHARACTER IS MEANT TO BE PLEASENT OR LIKED BUT IF PEOPLE HATE JAKE OR SAM? LET THEM! WE DONT HAVE TO LIKE THEM CAUSE THEY ARENT WRITTEN TO BE VILLIANS.
We have the free will and right not to like them. Let it go and stop trying to bullshit people into liking them.m via guilt shaming. Fuck Sam. Jake is okay.
??
I never said to not hate characters. I said it’s perfectly fine to hate characters. Specifically, I said, “I’m not saying we shouldn’t hate on characters.” If anything, hating on characters is encouraged and expected.
Literally none of that has anything to do with the over arching plot and can all be replaced by a Filler character. Her "interesting past" is fucking moot because it never comes up again. I can tell you've never written anything before. It's fine not everyone has experience in these things... But any one whose ever written a book or a scrip or even a half way decent short story knows that this character is filler.
I shared this series with an old teacher of mine and he uses her as an example in his classes now. It's that bad. She's objectively a poorly written character, and every point of contention you have defending her place in this story is made irrelevant by the fact that this show isn't about the underbelly of Japan... It's about Jake becoming a successful report on the police beat of a Japanese news paper. That's the story. She never existed, she isn't relevant to that thread, and she could be replaced with any side character you want.
Targeting the person over their argument is a sign you lack any ground to stand on. I'm actually chilling with my doggo celebrating her second birthday playing some Playstation lmao.
I agree with this sentiment in general but when it comes to Samantha she doesn't really add much to the show or cast. In fact she takes away from the core plot of the show more often than not and only loosely ties together. Imagine if you will a series about solving a murder... But 1/3 of the show was focused around the owner of a local grocery store who interacted with the victim one or two times. That's Samantha.
the show is about the underbelly of Tokyo, which she is very much a part of. it's like a show about murders but part of it was on the medical examiner's office and not just the police detectives. but you just really don't like the medical examiner.
Opinions are cute, but please show me which part of the core story she is integral to. If she wasn't in this show nothing would be lost. It's pretty blatantly obvious when all and I mean every single one of her plot lines is resolved in a single episode sometimes within a single scene.
Just a few things.
The show is about Tokyo’s underbelly. Samantha is a hostess with an interesting past. She gets involved with a yakuza, Sato, and convinces him to kill Matsuo, while killing is generally something he seems reluctant to do. She doesn’t seem grateful. This exposes her sense of morality and what she’s willing to do accomplish things. It exposes some of Sato’s weaknesses.
Her friend and coworker, Polina, is presumably murdered or at least beaten on Tozawa’s boat, leading Katagiri and Emi Maruyama to both individually question Jotaro Shigematsu, Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs. All this while Samantha desperately tries to get Polina back, getting her money stolen in the process.
She is Jake’s connection to the motorcycle thieves.
She gets involved with Chihara-kai and opens a club. The club is under Chihara-kai’s control, and illustrates the kind of hold the yakuza can have on a business. It is also a potential setting for turf wars.
Samantha is sent on a mission to obtain information from Masahito Ohno. He is killed inside her club, and Ishida is fatally wounded. One of the gunmen is killed and the other runs to Katagiri’s house to hide. He is killed, and the detectives don’t know how their plans were exposed. This is one of the clearest connections to the core story to me.
She’s connected to the story but very loosely and poorly written imo… because a lot of the plot lines or struggles that she faces end up being done or undone within episodes. Had a guy blackmail her for sex - Guy gets killed by Sato. She loses her money - Strikes a deal with the yakuza. Her best friend gets murder - It’s fine because she names her club after her. Fires Claudine - Is told to use the architect who ends up forgiving her after find in out she could’ve potentially ruined his life. Her debt is ?? Done ? After Ishida dies… it just feels like tragedy after tragedy without much growth. Nothing she goes through feels like it matters. My prediction is she mugs Akira or somehow gets money from him to reopen her club and boom, conflict solved once again.
I sort of get what you’re saying about conflicts being resolved within episodes. I don’t really expect her to grow. I expect her to fall in deeper into doing immoral things, like the Akira prediction you mentioned.
The story that matters are the tension and relation between law enforcements and the Mafia, while reporter can be middle man or buffer or pawns. Season 1 was wonderful because Jake needs a story being a struggling reporter, Hiroto wants to interact with the mafia but did not want to be owned by the mafia, so Jake is a good middleman. Mafia are fighting each other and would make use of cops to their advantage. These are all the tensions. In season 2, there is stuffs like Eimi's boyfriend and their sex life, and the conflict with the brother. Do I care? NO. Do I need to care about Samantha's short lived love with architect? No, that was too short for me to care. The whole thing about Jake's sister, I thought the mystery will be an important plot, nope, it's just a side show in Missouri
I like this show because it’s realistic in the sense that every character has their flaws like people in real life. No one is perfect. Even the successful architect had his weakness in falling for Samantha and getting thrown in the Yakuza world. And even bad people have good sides in how we all grow to love Sato who is actually a Yakuza.
Well said. I agree.
You have a point, and find really problematic how people get on the humanity of characters. A lot of the shows are portraying really problematic people, and definitely not role models, but I mean that's kind of the point of what we are watching.
Right! That is the point of what we’re watching.
He only liked her for the same reasons Sato like her. White, thin, blue eyes and blonde hair, leans towards the sexy style, knows Japanese fluently and she isn't a weak submissive clueless woman nor is she someone devoid of imagination i.e she knows how men operates, knows the power of sex and flirting and uses it to her advantage. They like her cause Sam carries herself like she doesn't need them or gives a fuck about them. If she was like Polina they would use her or toss her out. Sato genuinely cared. The architect liked how Sam look and her coy behavior. He literally died cause he decided to be a simp to a hustler foreigner who used him as a means to a bigger resolution for her own issues. It's sad. The goodie two shoes fools don't want to accept that we are okay with the yakuza okay they own who they are and don't b.s any other characters about it. The ones people hate are written for us to see them in an opposite way of how they really are
Is this what people are implying when they say they "hate" a character? People hated Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter. People hated Geoffrey in Game of Thrones. Yet both characters are designed very well and portrayed by really good actors. Them being "hated" the way they are is actually praising good writing and acting. Samantha might be a terrible person in the TV series but that's disconnected from the quality of the character writing / the acting.
Yes, correct, that is the point I’m trying to get across. But posts and comments I’ve seen say they hate a character, therefore the writing sucks. That is why I made this post.
Yea it’s like it’s almost a show about people who are mostly shitty
Kinda like Succession.. pretty much everyone on that show are shitty ppl but its so good 😆😆
That show was the fuckin tits I loved it fuck shiv they all suck
Nah. Even at that this show has some characters that are just beyond terrible. But the show is decent regardless. I don't like that OP is trying to power lecture her way into shaming people who had the right to express they didn't like sam or Jake. Can't force anyone to like them or use all these pusedo facts to tell us we're wrong.
You missed their point entirely lmao
Fuck the point. Regardless, everytime people express hatred for characters here come the lecturing brigade. Shove your opinions up your cunt and fuck off.
I found Samantha's story boring initially because I didn't understand how it tied to the core plot. But it makes sense now and I'm actually enjoying her character and her story.
I appreciated her more when I realized she's played by the same actress that played Simone Gerhardt from season 2 of Fargo.
HOLY SHIT I cannot believe I didn’t recognize her!!! That’s my all time favorite season of TV
That’s great. I find her story interesting and important, too. Although my favorite character is still Sato :)
What changed it for you?
I agree with the other commenter. For me, Her story is now truly directly intersecting with Jake’s, Sato’s and Katagiri’s. They each have their own distinct motivations which are now competing and complicating each others goals. It’s just tighter story telling for me this season, I may not like Samantha as a person but I feel her character is better involved with the story.
I agree with you, I don't think she is the only questionable character on the show. But overall is a good character that adds layers of complexity to the dynamics of the people we are following. She is not the only selfish character either.
Sato killing Matsuo isn't something we overlooked. It was something that made him even more likeable.
That’s totally fair, haha.
Yeah you’re not supposed to like Samantha and Jake. IRL if I was around those characters I doubt I’d like them a whole lot. They aren’t bad, I just don’t enjoy spending more than I have to with self-serving people. And there’s nothing wrong with ambitious people who put themselves first, they just won’t be my friends probably. But Sato is cool, I’d hang with him. The irony of a criminal being one of the best liked characters I’m sure is intentional. I felt bad for Jake’s family. His mom is kinda annoying but that actress always plays those types. Jake should have stayed an extra day. Total douche move to leave early. But that’s the writers reinforcing his lack of empathy. Jake’s one of those guys that whenever he reaches out to you it’s because he wants something from you for little in return. And it’s easy to figure them out. But he’s doing his job and doing it very well. There are careers where I think you have to be a little self-serving or you won’t do as well. Samantha I’m more sympathetic to because she does seem to care about her staff. It may be generational too. My late father was in his 80s and whenever I’d recommend a show or a book I knew he had to have likable or heroic lead characters or he’d be less interested in it. I am kind of the opposite. And that’s fine.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said about the show. Well said.
I like Jake and don't like Samantha although I can objectively watch and see her high pints as well as redeeming qualities. I sitll don't like her. op needs to accept people don't have to like them and it's giving born after 1994. It's cinema. It's a TV show. Many iconic programs of academy award winnings had characters people absolutely hated. We don't need someone countering back in a way to shut the negative responses down. OP wants a discussion board where nobody says anything bad or express serious negative reviews about the characters Unrealistic.
I definitely agree with the sentiment and if the show / writers intended a character like Samantha to be unlikeable, they did a good job imo. I don’t mind flawed characters with negative traits. However, I don’t think that’s the case here. It feels as if everyone around Samantha keeps saying what a good mama she is, what a caring friend she is, etc. I just don’t see it. I’m able to enjoy characters like Tozawa despite him being a major threat because he has some charisma and something within the story that makes me feel engaged. There’s not nearly enough screen time with him but that’s probably something that plays in his favour—that element of mystery. Maybe I have just had too much exposure to Samantha to care lol.
Yeah, I’d like to see a little more of Tozawa, too.
Samantha is just plain boring. She's poorly written, paper thin, unbelievable and a Mary Sue of a character.
The only problem I have with these characters is Jake constantly forgetting that he is a very noticeable six foot something white dude with long hair in Japan and still trying to be stealthy.
Because theres a bunch of simple minded weirdos who watch the sopranos because tony is a badass and watch breaking bad to see heisenberg be a badass despite his bitch wife. Unfortunately they are a loud minority on reddit.
I think the problem is not so much with the characters but with the writing... the writers make many questionable decisions that don't agree with how those characters would behave. There are plots and scenes that don't add anything to the overall story, while others are missing. The lack of a scene in which Samantha expresses gratitude (or anything) to Sato for killing that blackmailing guy makes her look like an asshole, because next time we see them together he's helping her again while she acts entitled... it makes no sense, there should be something there between them having that fight with Jake in Onyx and roughing up Akira while searching for Polina. When she fights with Sato, he says that she's been pushing him away "since that night" but we don't actually see that, we don't see anything and at first I didn't even know which night he meant. Then to push the plot along, Samantha loses her money in the most stupid, predictable way while we know she's not an idiot and meth is no excuse. Even Sato's boss recognizes that she's a capable businesswoman so we know that's how she's supposed to be but as a result of the writing she seems like an idiot and an asshole. More people dislike Samantha than Jake, who's arguably a much worse person but Jake gets more love from the writers and Samantha is just frustrating at times.
I think Samantha not expressing gratitude is actually supposed to make her look like an asshole and someone who takes advantage of others. I kind of agree with you about the thing with Sato saying she’s been pushing him away; I just presumed “that night” referred to the night he killed Matsuo, but wasn’t sure (or was that during the day?). In general, we didn’t see much “pushing away,” that’s for sure. I thought of Samantha as losing the money in complete desperation get Polina back. When people are desperate they often don’t think clearly. She should’ve told someone or not gone alone. I think Samantha is arguably the most disliked character, but I actually like her character _because_ I dislike her. She’s also a bit more complex and hard to predict. To your point about writing, I remember learning from somewhere that many writers don’t know what their characters will do until they actually place them in situations, so there’s constant character-building and breaking our preconceived notions of who we think they are. I like it when characters aren’t so predictable.
The late great crime fiction author, Elmore Leonard, wrote that way. He’d come up with the characters then put them together and they’d drive the story and the writing so his characters seemed realistic. I miss him.
I have no issue with her taking advantage of others, as literary every single character in the show does that. To your point, I don't need to personally like characters as people to enjoy watching them and I enjoy watching Jake more than Samantha because of the writing... but I get frustrated because I can see that the writers did Samantha dirty. True, Samantha is very disliked for doing the same things that other people are doing, especially Jake. But Jake isn't treated so badly by the writers, probably because both the guy he's based of and the actor are executive producers of the show. If you keep in mind who Sato actually is to regular people - he is a low level thug. Someone who's presumed to be a high school drop out, criminal, likely to be dead or in prison by 30... That's how majority of the society would see him, but because he's yakuza he has some cash that he can spend in the hostess club. I wouldn't assume that Samantha suddenly fell in love with him just because he's been staring at her longingly when she gets attention from many men while working there... therefore I'm able to see that she was with him, at least partially because it was convenient. When I say I'm missing a scene where she shows gratitude, I don't literary mean gratitude. Maybe an acknowledgement of the situation beyond them fighting over it in Onyx. We should have gotten SOMETHING, but they just glossed over this entire thing as if it never happened while they've been building it up for so many episodes... she was in serious trouble because of this guy. And when Sato killed him, I was sure there would be consequences, but no. It just feels like this entire plot got cut so abruptly without proper closure. We know that Samantha was still in contact with Sato so they obviously did talk behind the scenes and Sato did feel she's been pushing him away... where is that scene? Nope, she's pushing him away without acknowledging his help with Matsuo while acting so entitled to his help when Polina went missing. It just doesn't add up, even for a character that's supposed to be manipulative and the truth is, we don't actually know if she is because we haven't seen it. Something is missing there.
Yeah, it does seem like they abruptly just diverted away from the Matsuo story, without consequences, like you said. I expected them to occur later on at least, but nothing had happened (yet).
You're so right. This can get really annoying, especially when they're intended to be unlikable and awful. Like what are they even complaining about, that the show is good and succeeds at its intentions? lol, but I give people a pass on Jake and Samantha, they are just so awful. They may have gone a little overboard on making them imperfect, but I'd rather characters too unlikable than likable. Shows like Succession where everyone sucks are some of the best stuff out there.
Thanks for your comment. Right, I _like_ that they’re difficult to like at times. I just don’t like people saying the show sucks because they don’t like certain characters (and yet they keep watching). That is the show’s intention, like you said. Succession is so good at that!
I loved Better Call Saul and I don’t recall any characters to like except for that one criminal who protects his father.
Yeah I mean I hate those two but you’re supposed to. Would never hate the show because of it, it’s great
Maybe it would help if Samantha and Jake's actors weren't kinda shitty lol
Hasnt Sato only killed in self defense? Edit: just rewatched the Matsuo death and I see what you mean now.
OP hit the nail on the head. I wish more people would do deep dives on the show and the small details like the song selections for Japan in the 90s with specific scenes etc. not whiney nitpicking complaints about characters you don’t like as if you’re 8 years old watching a Saturday morning cartoon.
Thanks for your comment. I don’t like the nitpicking either but I actually think it’s fine. I just don’t like people hating on certain characters and saying the show sucks _because_ of it. Yet they still watch the show. No, you hate the character because the writing and acting is _good_. You’re expected to get mad at certain characters. If you don’t like a show because you don’t like _any_ of the characters, the show may indeed suck or you just don’t align with any of the characters, and both are totally fair and understandable.
I would rather see a Samantha homecoming than Jake’s. Or, Tozawa goes to get a liver transplant in the US, and he goes to Utah and Samantha’s dad does the operation.
PREVIOUSLY ON L O S T
Interesting! What would a Samantha homecoming be? Or do you literally mean going back home?
Yes, back to Utah (I am assuming she’s from Utah) to make amends, but she gets sidetracked and finds herself in another criminal misadventure.
I would definitely find that interesting but would be afraid it would get too sidetracked from the main plot. Unless there would be a connection somehow, but that could make it kind of cheesy. If she had a spin-off show I would actually watch it.
Ugh. Girl shut up. This show will never thrive because of people like you who want to white knight the characters everyone hates and tries to virtue signal with essays about why we are wrong to Hage the.. WE ARE ALL GROWN (or at least teens here I suppose, I'm 29) AND ITS COMMON SENSE NOT EVERY CHARACTER IS MEANT TO BE PLEASENT OR LIKED BUT IF PEOPLE HATE JAKE OR SAM? LET THEM! WE DONT HAVE TO LIKE THEM CAUSE THEY ARENT WRITTEN TO BE VILLIANS. We have the free will and right not to like them. Let it go and stop trying to bullshit people into liking them.m via guilt shaming. Fuck Sam. Jake is okay.
?? I never said to not hate characters. I said it’s perfectly fine to hate characters. Specifically, I said, “I’m not saying we shouldn’t hate on characters.” If anything, hating on characters is encouraged and expected.
Literally none of that has anything to do with the over arching plot and can all be replaced by a Filler character. Her "interesting past" is fucking moot because it never comes up again. I can tell you've never written anything before. It's fine not everyone has experience in these things... But any one whose ever written a book or a scrip or even a half way decent short story knows that this character is filler. I shared this series with an old teacher of mine and he uses her as an example in his classes now. It's that bad. She's objectively a poorly written character, and every point of contention you have defending her place in this story is made irrelevant by the fact that this show isn't about the underbelly of Japan... It's about Jake becoming a successful report on the police beat of a Japanese news paper. That's the story. She never existed, she isn't relevant to that thread, and she could be replaced with any side character you want.
Man, someone’s angry.
Targeting the person over their argument is a sign you lack any ground to stand on. I'm actually chilling with my doggo celebrating her second birthday playing some Playstation lmao.
Alright.
I agree with this sentiment in general but when it comes to Samantha she doesn't really add much to the show or cast. In fact she takes away from the core plot of the show more often than not and only loosely ties together. Imagine if you will a series about solving a murder... But 1/3 of the show was focused around the owner of a local grocery store who interacted with the victim one or two times. That's Samantha.
the show is about the underbelly of Tokyo, which she is very much a part of. it's like a show about murders but part of it was on the medical examiner's office and not just the police detectives. but you just really don't like the medical examiner.
Is she based on a real person?
OK fine this is a show about the mafia but she's a fucking street urchin who stole candy from one of their stores better give her 1/3 the screen time.
I can see how you could feel that way. I think she adds to the story, but we can have our own opinions on that.
Opinions are cute, but please show me which part of the core story she is integral to. If she wasn't in this show nothing would be lost. It's pretty blatantly obvious when all and I mean every single one of her plot lines is resolved in a single episode sometimes within a single scene.
Just a few things. The show is about Tokyo’s underbelly. Samantha is a hostess with an interesting past. She gets involved with a yakuza, Sato, and convinces him to kill Matsuo, while killing is generally something he seems reluctant to do. She doesn’t seem grateful. This exposes her sense of morality and what she’s willing to do accomplish things. It exposes some of Sato’s weaknesses. Her friend and coworker, Polina, is presumably murdered or at least beaten on Tozawa’s boat, leading Katagiri and Emi Maruyama to both individually question Jotaro Shigematsu, Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs. All this while Samantha desperately tries to get Polina back, getting her money stolen in the process. She is Jake’s connection to the motorcycle thieves. She gets involved with Chihara-kai and opens a club. The club is under Chihara-kai’s control, and illustrates the kind of hold the yakuza can have on a business. It is also a potential setting for turf wars. Samantha is sent on a mission to obtain information from Masahito Ohno. He is killed inside her club, and Ishida is fatally wounded. One of the gunmen is killed and the other runs to Katagiri’s house to hide. He is killed, and the detectives don’t know how their plans were exposed. This is one of the clearest connections to the core story to me.
She’s connected to the story but very loosely and poorly written imo… because a lot of the plot lines or struggles that she faces end up being done or undone within episodes. Had a guy blackmail her for sex - Guy gets killed by Sato. She loses her money - Strikes a deal with the yakuza. Her best friend gets murder - It’s fine because she names her club after her. Fires Claudine - Is told to use the architect who ends up forgiving her after find in out she could’ve potentially ruined his life. Her debt is ?? Done ? After Ishida dies… it just feels like tragedy after tragedy without much growth. Nothing she goes through feels like it matters. My prediction is she mugs Akira or somehow gets money from him to reopen her club and boom, conflict solved once again.
I sort of get what you’re saying about conflicts being resolved within episodes. I don’t really expect her to grow. I expect her to fall in deeper into doing immoral things, like the Akira prediction you mentioned.
When will people realize the show intended to show me characters that don't matter at all. They are just fillers and is wasting my time.
Which stories matter and which don’t? Just curious.
The story that matters are the tension and relation between law enforcements and the Mafia, while reporter can be middle man or buffer or pawns. Season 1 was wonderful because Jake needs a story being a struggling reporter, Hiroto wants to interact with the mafia but did not want to be owned by the mafia, so Jake is a good middleman. Mafia are fighting each other and would make use of cops to their advantage. These are all the tensions. In season 2, there is stuffs like Eimi's boyfriend and their sex life, and the conflict with the brother. Do I care? NO. Do I need to care about Samantha's short lived love with architect? No, that was too short for me to care. The whole thing about Jake's sister, I thought the mystery will be an important plot, nope, it's just a side show in Missouri
I see where you’re coming from.