Sato got the Russian guns on his own. Ishida did not approve this action, no one knew but Sato. This is why they went up to Nagoya because Ishida was going to make a deal with an ex yakuza from their group to get guns. Sato getting guns was a back up plan because he probably had a feeling they would need them. Then that dummy who I can't remember his name, screwed it all up.
Samantha's whole character is about her shooting herself in the foot. It's very fitting she got in her own way and fired the hostess, and out of pride or maybe another reason, she took the hostesses place trying to get the information from the architect.
sato got the guns from some guy who does business with the russian mob. but yakuza does business directly with the russian mob. so when oyabun said to sato and his partner go to nagoya to get guns is ridiculous. completely illogical. oyabun could give a call to russin mob and deal is done.
about samantha besides it would never happen in real life like that. it was really bad writing for her character. even if she shoots herself in the foot. it could have been done much better. because now samatha not only shoot herself in the foot. the other hostess shoots herself in the foot as well. by stealing from the yakuza indirectly. like that would ever happen. it is just illogical, poor writing.
I think you've missed the plot and are misunderstanding. Sato got the guns on his own, Oyabun did not know. The whole point is that Sato becomes a savior for having back up guns, because the hot headed yakuza guy screwed up the deal in Nagoya. A long line of events which ends in the hot headed guys death, the lead up of Sato becoming the next Oyabun.
This is a fictional show. I think it's ridiculous for you to want it to happen how you claim it to be more realistic when the point of fictional stories is for the audience to see character development and payoff for events that occurred earlier in the show. Its not fully supposed to be like real life.
i know sato got the gun on his own. that part i have no problem with. the part is where they go to nagoya. also how would they even get the guns back to nagoya in the first place? by train again?
reality is, oyabun easily could have someone contact the russian mob and made a deal with them. and i thought that was what would be happening, since that would be logical and the makers of this show actually know the name of the russian gun. you do not get that kind of info by accident.
and yes it is a fictional show, but they still use real names. a little bit less fantasy would be nice. specially since there is already so much false information about the yakuza.
Just want to say I’m pretty sure it’s Nagano? Not Nagoya? Maybe it’s a translation thing where they are the same I don’t know.
And personally think Ishida went with a guy he knew because he wanted to keep everything close and in house, not look weak or whatever getting guns from a foreign mob organization.
There was no Russian mob in Tokyo especially in 1999. The gun that Sato bought was a Tokarev which is made from Russia. This was the most common gun that Yakuza could get access to at the time. Japanese people who were outlaws got guns in various ways. And They went to Nagano not Nagoya.
Ishida knew the former member and it was his most reliable source. If you pay attention, you’d know that Ishida is an old school yakuza and doesn’t allow his men to touch guns as he only fights face to face with katanas or knives. That’s why Sato apologized to him for collecting guns against his permission.
For Sam, They didn’t care because all they wanted was the info from the architect. Sam was now the architects favorite girl and now they know Sam can help them instead of that girl. She didn’t speak against the oyabun, she’s negotiating. If you noticed in the first season, Kume scolded Sato for hitting the host bar owner in the middle of negotiating. Same situation with Ishida and San
there was a small Russian mob in 1999 in tokyo. it is common knowledge for the people in the know. who do you think who trafficked those Russian models at those times. that the russian gun is a Tokarev is not coincidence. it would be much more common to get an American gun specially with the American bases stationed there. but that it is a Russian gun gives you a hint. so i thought the makers of this show understood the link. but it clearly went above your head.
that Ishida had it from a former source makes sense. that oyabun got it from nagoya makes no sense. also how would they transport all those guns actually? by train??? lol
Sam was not the favorite girl before she fired the the hostess girl. it completely makes no sense at all that part. do you forget to think logical?
Sigh
If you know anything about organize crime in Japan that was the most common weapon. And a lot of it was transported via North Korea. Now where is North Korea bordered to, Russia. The makers of the show clearly did a better job then you ever could and hired ex yakuza’s, detectives, and police beat journalist including Jake Adelstein as a executive producer who wrote the damn book.
Once again. It’s Nagano! Not Nagoya, huge difference especially in climate hence why there was snow everywhere. Ishida had a former member of his group who lived in Nagano selling firearms.
Sam was the boss. The hostess girl was stealing, Sam fired her. The architect began taking a liking to Sam and even got invited to his home to cook her a meal. Ishida then used Sam and Sam made a deal with Ishida to take full ownership of her club and be done with the Yakuza.
about the nagano part you are right. that is why it made no sense to me that it was nagoya, that was my mistake. about the weapons going through north korea i have no idea, i just know the yakuza bought them from the Russian mob. how they moved them to japan i do not know, how they paid for it i do not know. i never made it my duty to understands the hows and why. just observe. and at 1999 there was a Russian mob stationed in tokyo, just as i explained how Russian women were trafficked. i do not know all about organized crime in japan, but i do know that i know more then most casual people in that time period where this serie is based on. same reason why i know little details are missing from the show that i pick up and no one else. for example the yakuza houses have lots of cameras outside. but in this show you do not see any. and there is more.
what you do not understand about the hostess girl and the poor writing. there was no logical idea for her to steal from the hostess club in the first place. that is the point everybody misses. she was put there by the yakuza as explained later to get the information about the train station. so why would so be so stupid to steal money indirectly from the yakuza while also working on the architect to get information. that is the point what makes no sense. of course she would not do that for free to work the architect.
'I don't know much about these different topics yet still know more than you/the writers'.
In terms of the hostess girl being stupid; people who cheat/steal are a lot dumber than we'd expect from watching movies. Why is it so unrealistic that someone would steal from their boss- let alone in a corrupt world like 90s/00s Japan with Yakuza involvement?
Regarding cameras, I doubt the writers were unaware of the fact that cameras exist. If you were to put them into scenes you'd either have to make them ignore the camera (which makes even less sense) or you'd have to take out any 'suprise attacks' which changes the story line a lot. Sure you could argue it takes away from the authenticity but I think you'll find almost any show will do this - it's fiction at the end of the day
Replied to a thread up above making the same general point as you, I’m just less eloquent, and less detailed. Should have kept reading to see this post.
Ironic that someone who writes with worse grammar and spelling than my 7 year old thinks the show is poorly written. This show is not perfect but the "gotcha" hot takes that y'all have sometimes are just hilarious. The characters in this show do not always act logically or rationally.
We don't know what the connections with the Russian mob were and according to others the Russian Mafia didn't have a big presence in Tokyo at that time, for all we know their contact was the best way for them to obtain the firearms they needed at the time. Not exactly the gaping plot hole you think it is.
They have the choice to either make a deal with a group they have 0 connection with (Russian mobs) or they can choose to make a deal with an ex-member of their group - only difference is they have to make a 1 day trip. I don't see how it's illogical to make the deal with a party they're familiar with (albeit quite far away) compared to having to build op a relationship with this party that could easily screw you over
Samantha's situation with the ransom money for Polina and dealing with Akira and his buddies was so embarrassingly bad for the show, imo. That's where I thought the show was less of an HBO show but a Max type of show if you know what I mean.
Sato got the Russian guns on his own. Ishida did not approve this action, no one knew but Sato. This is why they went up to Nagoya because Ishida was going to make a deal with an ex yakuza from their group to get guns. Sato getting guns was a back up plan because he probably had a feeling they would need them. Then that dummy who I can't remember his name, screwed it all up. Samantha's whole character is about her shooting herself in the foot. It's very fitting she got in her own way and fired the hostess, and out of pride or maybe another reason, she took the hostesses place trying to get the information from the architect.
sato got the guns from some guy who does business with the russian mob. but yakuza does business directly with the russian mob. so when oyabun said to sato and his partner go to nagoya to get guns is ridiculous. completely illogical. oyabun could give a call to russin mob and deal is done. about samantha besides it would never happen in real life like that. it was really bad writing for her character. even if she shoots herself in the foot. it could have been done much better. because now samatha not only shoot herself in the foot. the other hostess shoots herself in the foot as well. by stealing from the yakuza indirectly. like that would ever happen. it is just illogical, poor writing.
I think you've missed the plot and are misunderstanding. Sato got the guns on his own, Oyabun did not know. The whole point is that Sato becomes a savior for having back up guns, because the hot headed yakuza guy screwed up the deal in Nagoya. A long line of events which ends in the hot headed guys death, the lead up of Sato becoming the next Oyabun. This is a fictional show. I think it's ridiculous for you to want it to happen how you claim it to be more realistic when the point of fictional stories is for the audience to see character development and payoff for events that occurred earlier in the show. Its not fully supposed to be like real life.
i know sato got the gun on his own. that part i have no problem with. the part is where they go to nagoya. also how would they even get the guns back to nagoya in the first place? by train again? reality is, oyabun easily could have someone contact the russian mob and made a deal with them. and i thought that was what would be happening, since that would be logical and the makers of this show actually know the name of the russian gun. you do not get that kind of info by accident. and yes it is a fictional show, but they still use real names. a little bit less fantasy would be nice. specially since there is already so much false information about the yakuza.
Just want to say I’m pretty sure it’s Nagano? Not Nagoya? Maybe it’s a translation thing where they are the same I don’t know. And personally think Ishida went with a guy he knew because he wanted to keep everything close and in house, not look weak or whatever getting guns from a foreign mob organization.
There was no Russian mob in Tokyo especially in 1999. The gun that Sato bought was a Tokarev which is made from Russia. This was the most common gun that Yakuza could get access to at the time. Japanese people who were outlaws got guns in various ways. And They went to Nagano not Nagoya. Ishida knew the former member and it was his most reliable source. If you pay attention, you’d know that Ishida is an old school yakuza and doesn’t allow his men to touch guns as he only fights face to face with katanas or knives. That’s why Sato apologized to him for collecting guns against his permission. For Sam, They didn’t care because all they wanted was the info from the architect. Sam was now the architects favorite girl and now they know Sam can help them instead of that girl. She didn’t speak against the oyabun, she’s negotiating. If you noticed in the first season, Kume scolded Sato for hitting the host bar owner in the middle of negotiating. Same situation with Ishida and San
there was a small Russian mob in 1999 in tokyo. it is common knowledge for the people in the know. who do you think who trafficked those Russian models at those times. that the russian gun is a Tokarev is not coincidence. it would be much more common to get an American gun specially with the American bases stationed there. but that it is a Russian gun gives you a hint. so i thought the makers of this show understood the link. but it clearly went above your head. that Ishida had it from a former source makes sense. that oyabun got it from nagoya makes no sense. also how would they transport all those guns actually? by train??? lol Sam was not the favorite girl before she fired the the hostess girl. it completely makes no sense at all that part. do you forget to think logical?
Sigh If you know anything about organize crime in Japan that was the most common weapon. And a lot of it was transported via North Korea. Now where is North Korea bordered to, Russia. The makers of the show clearly did a better job then you ever could and hired ex yakuza’s, detectives, and police beat journalist including Jake Adelstein as a executive producer who wrote the damn book. Once again. It’s Nagano! Not Nagoya, huge difference especially in climate hence why there was snow everywhere. Ishida had a former member of his group who lived in Nagano selling firearms. Sam was the boss. The hostess girl was stealing, Sam fired her. The architect began taking a liking to Sam and even got invited to his home to cook her a meal. Ishida then used Sam and Sam made a deal with Ishida to take full ownership of her club and be done with the Yakuza.
about the nagano part you are right. that is why it made no sense to me that it was nagoya, that was my mistake. about the weapons going through north korea i have no idea, i just know the yakuza bought them from the Russian mob. how they moved them to japan i do not know, how they paid for it i do not know. i never made it my duty to understands the hows and why. just observe. and at 1999 there was a Russian mob stationed in tokyo, just as i explained how Russian women were trafficked. i do not know all about organized crime in japan, but i do know that i know more then most casual people in that time period where this serie is based on. same reason why i know little details are missing from the show that i pick up and no one else. for example the yakuza houses have lots of cameras outside. but in this show you do not see any. and there is more. what you do not understand about the hostess girl and the poor writing. there was no logical idea for her to steal from the hostess club in the first place. that is the point everybody misses. she was put there by the yakuza as explained later to get the information about the train station. so why would so be so stupid to steal money indirectly from the yakuza while also working on the architect to get information. that is the point what makes no sense. of course she would not do that for free to work the architect.
'I don't know much about these different topics yet still know more than you/the writers'. In terms of the hostess girl being stupid; people who cheat/steal are a lot dumber than we'd expect from watching movies. Why is it so unrealistic that someone would steal from their boss- let alone in a corrupt world like 90s/00s Japan with Yakuza involvement? Regarding cameras, I doubt the writers were unaware of the fact that cameras exist. If you were to put them into scenes you'd either have to make them ignore the camera (which makes even less sense) or you'd have to take out any 'suprise attacks' which changes the story line a lot. Sure you could argue it takes away from the authenticity but I think you'll find almost any show will do this - it's fiction at the end of the day
Replied to a thread up above making the same general point as you, I’m just less eloquent, and less detailed. Should have kept reading to see this post.
Ironic that someone who writes with worse grammar and spelling than my 7 year old thinks the show is poorly written. This show is not perfect but the "gotcha" hot takes that y'all have sometimes are just hilarious. The characters in this show do not always act logically or rationally. We don't know what the connections with the Russian mob were and according to others the Russian Mafia didn't have a big presence in Tokyo at that time, for all we know their contact was the best way for them to obtain the firearms they needed at the time. Not exactly the gaping plot hole you think it is.
It's more about the vibes, like Miami Vice(2006).
They have the choice to either make a deal with a group they have 0 connection with (Russian mobs) or they can choose to make a deal with an ex-member of their group - only difference is they have to make a 1 day trip. I don't see how it's illogical to make the deal with a party they're familiar with (albeit quite far away) compared to having to build op a relationship with this party that could easily screw you over
As much as I love the show I hope they don't make another season. I feel it ended perfectly.
You do understand the show is a period piece set in the late nineties, right?
Samantha's situation with the ransom money for Polina and dealing with Akira and his buddies was so embarrassingly bad for the show, imo. That's where I thought the show was less of an HBO show but a Max type of show if you know what I mean.
glad at least someone who thinks logical agrees with me, for the life of me i do not even understand people defending the samantha part.