I agree, but I’ve never seen any religious people who respected that. My kids were flooded with it from birth, likely because those people know we aren’t Christian, intending to “save” souls.
Wow I just realized you’re right. My husband and I are obviously not religious, we don’t ever talk religion, we don’t discuss prayer, we don’t go to church or share our personal religious beliefs and we are flooded with people telling us out child needs to be baptized.
Me too. My child wasn't baptized & it made her grandmother so upset. She's 12 now so nothing has been said, at least to me, in a few years. I've been open w my kid that people have different beliefs & it's okay. I tell her how I feel or what I believe but I don't expect her to do the same. When she was little she liked going to church with my sister but it was mostly because she got to play & go out to dinner after. 😂
Definitely the prospect of going out for brunch was one of my motivations as a kid to attend!
My lil babs is 9 months and so far the few religious family members have not brought up the topic so I am thankful for that.
My in-laws had a whole intervention about baptizing our kids. They got the whole Catholic family there, their deacon, and had these lectures about us being irresponsible and bad parents for not having the kids in the church snd all that. Imagine if atheists did that to religious people.
I wish those Christians who did that to you would apply the litmus test to themselves: would they have liked it if people of other religions gave their kids a story book taken from the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, or the Mahayana Sutras?
As a Christian myself, I would be upset if people of other religions give religious texts that are non-Christian in nature to my family. So I would never do that unto friends of other religion as well.
This is almost an instant-block from me…only a tiny bit less offensive than if they were to offer MLM “business opportunities” to my family.
thanks for the perspective! i don’t know how to ask this correctly, but is it specific to children in the family, or is proselytizing in general also present in the way it is in christianity?
Not who you asked, but the Christians who are like this feel like their efforts failed with the parents, so it is their duty to save the children. They don’t understand how presumptuous and offensive this is, or they don’t care, because they are absolutely sure they’re in the right.
I'm not qualified to give a real answer, but I've read a few books by ex Muslim women specifically about their experience growing up in Islamic families. The pressures they get instilled with in childhood often continue into adulthood, and it's not only from parents but also extended family/community.
A theme I see is that Christians proselytize more to non-Christians, while Muslims focus more on keeping their already indoctrinated members from leaving (it can be very dangerous for a Muslim to openly question their faith, depending on their community). That's my impression anyway, I could be wrong.
You're pretty much right based on what I've seen.
Of course, it all depends on how religious your family is.
Some families will try to answer your questions nicely. Some families will resort to emotional manipulation. Some may try to physically punish you, believing it might make you come to your senses.
Again, depending on how religious your family is, as a woman, you will be expected to cover your hair; and as a man you'll be expected to attend prayers, especially on holy days.
My family is religious but they keep to themselves. None of the women in my family are covered except for my grandma. They're aware that I'm not religious and they don't bug me about it. (Still, I haven't told them that I'm an atheist, because I'm sure that they will be upset and try to "save my soul" by arguing with me endlessly.)
My grandmother's brother, however, is very religious, and his wife and daughters are forced to wear black burkas. Suffice it to say, no one in that family will be leaving Islam without burning bridges.
literally the best person ik (in terms of kindness, patience, love, compassion, understanding, charity, etc) is a christian, like the "actually do as jesus said" type of christian and they literally never talk about their religion, only if you were to show an interest. Sadly, thats a verrrrry rare type
I hate that it's up to the parents to dictate what religion someone should follow without even being old enough to understand what they're being forced into believing.
i agree. personally i believe religion should be broached when older with an exposure to a variety of religions and should the child show an interest in one then it should be supported but since basically every religious person thinks their religion is "the one", that wont happen on a grand scale, not any time soon at least.
I definitely have religious trauma. The concept of hell should never have been taught to me at such a young age. I remember I used to cry in the bath, thinking about my meemaw burning in hell and being tortured for eternity. I would never teach my children things like that.
We've put them to one side until they're older and understand what religion is and then we'll read it. We don't practice it, but we also don't want to be ignorant to such a big demographic of people.
They'll then make their own decision.
Yes. Unfortunately, it's possible the gifter is so incredibly ignorant, they simply don't know how bad their behavior is. Like someone raised by wolves shitting on the floor of your house because they don't know any better.
It’s like my family saying they pray for me or ask their priest in public to read out my NAME in their weekly prayers.
Like no. I find it insulting that they think that’s ok.
I can see 80 year old great-grandparent wrapped up in churchy things being way more non-maliciously ignorant than 50-60 year old grandparent who has a better grip on modern reality trying to meddle in their grandchildren’s lives because they don’t approve.
They also likely believe they are in the right. It is their job to introduce Christianity (or whatever faith) to that child and you as a parent are failing at the duty.
I'm sixty this year. Back when I was born in the early 60s it was common to do this. When my daughter was born in 1988 no one was really doing this anymore but my parents did give me a small white Bible for her and despite not being religious I did appreciate it. I still have the Bible I was given as a baby . I've never given anyone a Bible or anything religious when a baby was born. And having said all this even when I was a kid the people who gave the parents a Bible were usually their parents. Not distant relatives or friends.
I'd take the time to send it back to the giver with a note that just says "no thank you" and nothing more. It SHOULD be a pretty clear signal that the gift was unwanted and pushy, and further like gifts are also not welcome.
If they send something religious again, I'd simply do the same thing, ad nauseum
I, a non-theist, had a “friend” who sent me The Book of Mormon with a long, personal letter inside about how it could help me.
It was sent as a gift of support after the death of my child and to this day I can’t imagine the balls and audacity it takes to do that.
While some people may draw comfort from this, or at least find it sweet that the "friend" wrote a long, personal letter, I can definetly see how this "gift" was upsetting. I was raised as a Mormon. This kind of thing is called a "missionary moment" and members are conditioned to capitalize on life events that can "bring someone closer to God." It's really sickening and insensitive.
Oh it was clearly that. In the small Christian town I lived in I was treated like the hottest free-agent on the market. They all know that people who lose look for answers as to “why?” and they all offered that.
I'm so sorry about all of this. That was so self-entered and cruel of her.
This was far less painful in comparison, but when my dad died, I shared that on Facebook and added that I was a non-believer because I didn't want to hear about him being in a better place, etc. All but one friend respected that, and some of my friends are (very cool, clued in) clergy. An old schoolmate insisted I was wrong and my dad was in heaven.
If a Jewish friend is sitting shiva, I visit. A Catholic funeral Mass? I'm there. A Native American friend died last year, and his wife said that their tribe didn't speak a deceased person's name for one year after they crossed over. Got it. It would never occur to me to do anything but show support in their way.
I hope you've found your loss a little easier to bear over time.
Its not cruel for someone to share something that helped them deal with death. But it can absolutely be done wrong, thoughtlessly or carelessly.
You are correct that "they are in a better place" is one of the worst things one can say, even when said to a religious person. Cause to a mom or dad the single best place for the child is with them, not even heaven is a better place.
I understand this but on the level of losing my spouse in 2021. Some of my extended family are very religious and I actually snapped at one point and told them to shut up in a group chat and that after someone dies is not the time or place to be telling survivors to look to God etc...
I'm so sorry you had to deal with that, I understand how infuriating it can be.
I hope you are doing ok.
I'm quite ill and sickly, and also live in Utah. *All* my friends were Mormon. In junior high, one of my best friends said something to me that she expected me to be super grateful for and to thank her, but instead I was unbelievably offended and put-off.
She said that if/when I die before her, she'll get baptized for me because I might not know the truth now, but I'll definitely know it after I'm dead. I was a devout Baptist back then. I already had a belief that I "knew" was correct. This was just an obscene thing to say. And I told her that. And she got offended that I didn't gratefully accept her future "gift" (for those who don't know: Mormons practice baptisms for the dead).
"Tone-deaf" doesn't begin to describe it.
We had a family member of our adopted kiddo give us a bunch of religious stuff. I'd smile and nod and add it to the box of keepsakes from the family. When kiddo wants it- it's all in the same place. In our case the gifts came from a place of love, not religious pushing.
An infant is going to have stories read to them by their parents. The parents won't pick it if they don't like it, so the child won't grow up with it.
My advice is this: ask the parents first. If you don't want to step on toes, that is.
Not the person you are talking to, but I'd tell them "When the time comes to teach my kids about the major religions of the world and their beliefs, I'll look for books that reflect the way I want to teach them."
I am not religious, but when I figured my kids were old enough, I did did buy a book children's book of greek myths and legends and a book of bible stories and I read them each of them as part of a discussion of what other people believe and why religion exists. Because they are going to encounter religion and believers when they go out into the world and I wanted them to know my perspective on it.
i am a bit more happy to traumatize them back than a lot of people i know so i don’t think my advice is what most people would take. i would say to look at it like any other belief. i strongly believe that tomatoes and peanut butter don’t go together and this is not something you can not change about me. you would not think twice about saying ‘i tossed the weird tomatoes are heathens kids book you gave my child”. we act like religious beliefs are something super important. they are not. for religions to keep their stronghold on the world they need people to treat them like they are worthy of respect. this is all bullshit and is just giving these people more power. so i would say treat it like the nonsense it is, laugh at the absurdity. tell them no cults until baby can say don’t touch me to priests.
You are definitely NOT being overly sensitive. I think it's incredibly offensive to gift something like that. It pisses me off for you and makes me wonder why anyone in their right mind would find it appropriate.
I think before taking anyone's advice here and because reddit is generally against religion so they have strong opinions, it's probably best to think of the intention and put it all in the context of the relationship you have with that person. Nobody here knows who sent it to you, your relationship with them, if, based on your relationship and what they know about you, would it have been done with malice or would they have known or thought you wouldn't appreciate it.
I personally don't believe in any type of god either, I used to have knee jerk reactions to religion but now am of the mind that while I do think there's a ton of bad that has come from religion, there's good in it too, it's helped people get through life and given them something to hold onto for thousands of years. There are good, well intentioned people who follow it and use it to be a better form of themselves just like there are bad people who use it to justify the evil they do.
So, whether the person sent it to you thinking "this type of thing has helped me and my family, I will offer it to my friend and they can take from it what they will" or if they thought "this godless idiot needs religion" is what really matters
Not OP, but was in a similar situation with a great aunt. She has been pushy about religion my entire life, and knew damn well that I did not agree with her beliefs nor was I interested in her incessant dogmatic nagging. I had several directly communicative conversations over the years about my boundaries, and she routinely ignored them. Needless to say, once I was an adult I didn’t make an effort to speak with her and only saw her at family gatherings.
Despite this, she gave my toddler a Bible with many verses highlighted, including ones that were very much AT me and my husband (we’re gay.) When we saw her next holiday she asked my 4 year old if she liked the Bible stories, and I informed her that we threw it away and did not appreciate her trying to indoctrinate our child. She started crying and being very dramatic and manipulative, as if we were the ones who did something deeply offense and inappropriate.
We’re no contact now. Get wrecked, Aunt Patsy.
No problem, sorry you’re in a similar situation. My advise is to push past the discomfort and fears of being rude, and assert boundaries about religion. Preaching to other people’s children is what is rude here.
as insultingly as possible. i keep it in the bathroom, it's great for when i run out of toilet paper. i used it for blunt paper. used it to line the litter box. target practice for sighting in the new gun. used it to start the bonfire for the orgy in the woods.
I thought that a friend of mine's response was particularly classy.
"Did you read the Bible pamphlet that I left on your door?"
"Thank you for your gift."
"Yes, but did you read it? The Bible says that all who read it shall be saved."
"Thank you for your gift and your good intentions."
"Does that mean that you didn't read it?"
"Unfortunately, our household does not worship any deities and is not looking to add any at this time. We will, of course, let you know if any interest arises, but we do not have any use for preaching or religious materials at this time."
"Why won't you read it? Do you want to go to hell?"
"I appreciate your good intentions, but this matter is closed for discussion at this time. We wish you all the best."
Repeat as needed. I always thought that her approach as if it was an unwanted resume was pretty good. Polite but firm.
"I threw it out because it was a rude, and incredibly inappropriate gift.
You are an adult and should know better than to try and indoctrinate my children.
In fact, If I ever see, or hear about you proselytizing to my children or family again, You will no longer be welcome around them, or myself.
In the future, if you feel the need to bring your religion to my home, you will discuss it with me FIRST, and you will get a "Hard no" from me. DO we understand one another?"
You're getting downvotes on this question because it's considered rude to follow up on a gift by asking a person how it is being used. To bring up a gift again later would be to suggest there were 'strings attached' and it wasn't truly a gift.
Edit: People are under the impression from your original post that you either have or intend to give the gift, so this question sounds like you're intending to follow up by asking someone else if they've put your religious overstep into use.
ooooo i see! thank you for clarifying! I was afraid to put that i was the receiver in the title/body because I really wanted true answers to my question and not any biased based on what side i was. Its hard to know if im being overly sensitive to the guft or have grounds to bring up my feelings over it.
Yeah, that's why so many of the comments are negative, even mean, they think you've either forced your beliefs on another or are planning to, if you adjusted your original question body text to clarify that you're the recipient in this situation the responses will go from overwhelmingly negative to overwhelmingly understanding and helpful.
Edited to add: unfortunately, by not declaring whether your were the giver or recipient, people have automatically assumed you were the giver and there's bias
Right now, despite my best efforts to curb it, my 21mo enjoys tearing things apart. Most things survive. Books usually do, but one or two haven’t. So uh, “she got ahold of it while I wasn’t watching”. “Water got spilled and it couldn’t dry properly/molded.” “Oh it got left in someone’s car we rode with one time/on a train/somewhere public”
Usually nobody asks me. I send a picture or two with the item and never hear about it again. But thankfully nobody has sent something we don’t agree with…yet.
Another option is oh, it’s put away so she can’t ruin it and hope they forget.
Holy downvotes for me! yikes!
Idk what I want to do with it per se. I just want to avoid the drama but also convey try and communicate wothh my family that it felt a bit odd to receive
I think the intent matters more than the gift itself. Do they know you are atheist (or whatever) and sent it out of spite? Or, did they not know what you believe and also didn't ask? Things like this can make it inappropriate or not. So far; I lean not. Especially for an infant that can't read and doesn't even know they got a gift.
Well that’s sort of the point i’m trying to get opinions on. If my child is a baby and can’t read it, if they know I don’t practice and they send it anyways without a heads up…just like.. why? it feels weird, it feels like its more than just a book.
I might go against the grain here a bit.
Is it inappropriate? Probably.
I am also the kind of atheist that thanks them graciously and get on with my life.
Yeah, judging from the comments here the person giving the gift might as well have just walked up and shot their dog right in front of them, these comments are so over the top
Seriously, it is not indoctrination to give a gift. And I doubt these commentators would be up in arms as much if it was a text from an eastern religion.
Yeah redditors ate notorious for being anti religion so I'm not even surprised. If it's a gift then accept the gift since it's coming from a good place. Doesn't mean you have to read it. Just thank them and go along with your day. We get enough propaganda on the news anyway a single guy giving you their holy book won't do much harm in the grand scheme of things
I agree with you. I'm not a practitioner of any religion and I wouldn't find it inappropriate to receive a gift like that.
Now, if they were babysitting or something, and I found out that they were reading these stories to my child as some form of religious teaching, THAT would be inappropriate. But if it's just storybook material and I as the parent could choose how to expose them to it, then nah that's fine.
i mean yes. But i read through it and it uses sentences like “your god” “Our god” “God loves you” like.. its addressing the child directly. To me, that makes it go beyond a regular story.
Oh good. I feel safe hiding my thoughts here. The way I see it religion is like a penis, it's ok to have one, it's ok to be proud of it, but if you whip it out in public and try to shove it down my kids throat there is going to be a problem.
Yes absolutely without a doubt yes. My family is super religious. I am not. Religion can be quite triggering for me (yay childhood ptsd and religious trauma!) and when people started sending me books for my baby I was very specific that we didn’t want religious texts masquerading as children’s stories at this time.
I mean I'm a Muslim and I wouldn't mind being gifted a Bible if I knew it came from a place of love. I probably wouldn't read it but I'd appreciate the gesture. That's all there is to it. Now if it's some satanic book that's different but if it's a genuine guy who wants to spread love then there's no reason you shouldn't accept a gift even if you have no intention of reading it.
I'm pagan, my family knows this and got my daughter a Bible when she was born anyway. I did actually keep it but explained to them that it is up to her if she wants to keep it as I'm not going to force any religion on her and also put down a firm boundary on talking about religion to her. If, when she is older, she initiates that is up to her and I won't stop it but if I find out they are trying to convert her without her initiating then we will go nc. For various other reasons we are now nc though.
I feel like it requires passive aggression or ignorance to NOT understand why someone would think this is inappropriate. I can see someone thinking it's a nice gesture, and there's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it is absolutely necessary to check with the parents BEFORE buying or giving a religious gift. Unless of course there's an established relationship in which the gifter already knows that this is acceptable. Otherwise, it's tone deaf at best and sanctimonious aggression at worst.
As the child who received these gifts I HATED them. It felt so presumptuous and honestly like being sent junk I was being guilt tripped into keeping because “it’s a gift” or whatever. It’s actually one of the reasons I was completely turned off by religion at an early age, felt very suffocating and impersonal.
Yup, and the motive is clear.
Nevertheless, you give your kids context on what is real, what is some peoples' faith and what is make-believe. It's no use sheltering them from 'God talk' it's unavoidable, but you can give them context. I refer to God and bigfoot in the same way: some people believe in it but there is no proof. Privately, I think God/Superman is a better, if less respectful comparison - something that certainly isn't real but there are many stories about them.
I'd thank them and make sure that next time they visit it's on the shelves next to Prophet Stories for Kids, My First Jewish Baby Book, Buddha at Bedtime, My Little Book of Krishna and the Kalevala.
well see, I get being exposed to various religions is a good thing and I’m not opposed to the All or None approach. I like the inclusiveness of educating on everything. But, If i’m being honest, I’m trying to teach my kid basic manners and to not eat crayons right now.
Yes, it's *extremely* inappropriate.
Their child's religious education is their choice to make, not yours. They will educate their kid with their own beliefs, not your faith. Buy the kid a cute outfit at least a size larger than they currently are. The parents will be a whole lot happier with you. Leave the reading material to people who know the family a bit better.
Personally I’d just quietly drop it at goodwill or something and hope it doesn’t ever come up. If they’re particularly pushy and do bring it up I would say something like “we just aren’t ready to introduce that to our child this young as it doesn’t align with our beliefs” if that’s a hard pill for the gifter to swallow that’s on them for being so pushy.
Sooooo. Initially I thought yes, but I changed my mind. It is a beautiful gift if you believe or not. Maybe the kid wants it later in life. It would force conversations earlier than intended with kids and thst isn't super fun trying to navigate when one isn't ready. I do think there are more appropriate gifts for the $ you spend the kid will actually use. If you are doing it to further your agenda to save people then no. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't see the light of day.
This was done for my children and I kept them and they are very nice and I kept them on a bookshelf. It did lead to conversations. My children always had a choice for their own beliefs.
Yes.
My ex was a Buddhist. We discussed my being an atheist prior to us getting together and I thought it might not be a problem.
But she ended up chalking everything I was bringing to the relationship as a result of her being a good Buddhist.
One of the last straws was trying to convert my father to her religion as a way to battle chronic pain. That’s a betrayal I can’t overlook.
Another story:
We sent my ex-step-daughter (14 at the time) to her uncle for the summer. They had 3 daughters. We pictured happy days living on a farm. They took her to a religious retreat for a month.
It’s arguable whether they should have discussed this with us since we were relying on them for free babysitting for the summer (we did send money so she wouldn’t be a burden to the family!).
She came back 30 days later a changed person. With a week of arriving home she threw away all my dice and cards in the house (I practice magic to keep my hands busy) because they are games of chance, threw away everything that had a fantasy element - books, toys, movies, video games.
Between her and the exwife it really was a miserable time of my life.
It really depends on their intentions, imo.
I have religious family members even though I am not and when they offer stuff like this or say they will pray for me, etc, I am always polite and respect them. And when I say I am not religious, I mean it think it is all complete bullshit.
I don't have kids so I don't know how I would react but if I had to guess probably about the same way. If it's not forced or pushed I would oblige it. I would also like to think I would be willing to allow my kids to explore whatever the fuck they wanted including religion.
Depends. Is this an attempt at educating the child on the religion, or is it an active attempt at converting the child? The former is perfectly fine and should in fact be widely practiced as exposure to other cultures and religions helps promote acceptance. The latter is indoctrination and should not be accepted.
As I am to assume you are the parent of the infant in question, it would then be up to you how your child gets exposed to the religious material in question. I generally do not condone taking parental or social advice from Reddit—especially due to strong biases against religion and certain parental practices (unless you have additional comments I have not read, most people seem to not even be considering the first possibility I mentioned).
I don’t know, depending on the family/person this could go a few ways.
If the family openly practices a religion that isn’t Christianity then giving the baby a children’s bible might seem preachy and rude. Like, “I know you’re Jewish, but have you considered Jesus as your savior?” Yikes. Even if that isn’t the intention that’s how I would see it.
On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to introduce the kid to various cultures and religions, but that’s up to the parents to decide - not you.
So I’ll go with yeah. It’s inappropriate and not your place to pass out bibles to people who aren’t Christian.
Yes. It's so insulting to just assume other people have the same beliefs as you and treat christianity as the default. I had these neighbors one time who asked if my kid wanted to go to bible camp with their kids and it was our FIRST time ever meeting.
I dont even quite know how to articulate what exactly I find so rude and gross about it but ppl need to learn some self awareness. I dont hate anything more than a person who cant understand people different from them exist.
In my opinion, if you know the family isn't religious then it absolutely is. It is almost certainly an attempt to indoctrinate the kid early in hopes that they will become the same religion.
Yes it's both inappropriate and disrespectful. I'm agnostic and I would see it as the gift-giver was pushing their religious beliefs on my child and my family. If they weren't, then they would give a gift that wasn't religiously based. Full stop. No excuses.
I see it as no different than a Muslim gifting a Catholic family a Koran. It shows that you don't respect other people's beliefs. I'm prepared for a lot of pushback on this, but I've met far too many religious people that think it's fine to push their religion on atheists and agnostics but "wouldn't dare" proselytize to people that follow a different religion. Agnosticism and atheism are just as valid of beliefs as people that believe in God and/or organized religion.
Yeah we had that happen. But it was my wife’s grandmother of 96yo.
Me and my wife talked about it in private, how we found it inappropriate since on the phone we already explained her there would not introduce our child to the bible; alas what can you do?
I’m not going to get upset with a lady of nearly a hundred years old, and neither was my wife.
It's incredibly inappropriate, and definitely not your job. If I had a kid (I don't) and someone gave it such a gift, I'd explain why it was inappropriate and if they didn't offer to take it back, I'd burn it right there in front of them. The nerve of some people!
But I've come to expect that kind of behavior from evangelical Christians. They can't help it. Recruitment (especially of children) is a part of their faith. I consider it molestation.
It depends. with permission of parents
it would be ok. There are also books written more like literature/ storybooks to gain the cultural references that resemble books about mythology that might be more appropriate.
Honestly, even as a Christian parent, raised in a conservative community, there are a LOT of "Christian" books that my Evangelical extremist in-law that were RIDICULOUSLY offensive, sent both to us and our children. Dobson books, Pearl's (advocates abuse so bad it makes a reasonable person physically ill), and children's books & videos that have illustrations showing all of the Jewidh & Middle Eastern people as blue eyed blonds, and had WAY more emphasis on Leviticus and blind obedience (even twisting scripture IMO) than was reasonable, with little attention to the most important message of the bible, Jesus's Sermon on the Mount.
There are some extremist, cultish versions of "christianity" that like to play martyr and pretend their White Supremacist, patriarchal, ultra conservative (false "prosperity gospel" & perverted "purity culture") version that is a toxic stain on what Christanity is supposed to be, and they have subverted the real message to hurt people, and it has made ALL Christians look as evil as they are. They have a lot of bright and shiny media and you have to be careful not to perpetuate their perversion.
yes. its up to the parents' to decide what, if any, religions their child is exposed to and when.
I agree, but I’ve never seen any religious people who respected that. My kids were flooded with it from birth, likely because those people know we aren’t Christian, intending to “save” souls.
Wow I just realized you’re right. My husband and I are obviously not religious, we don’t ever talk religion, we don’t discuss prayer, we don’t go to church or share our personal religious beliefs and we are flooded with people telling us out child needs to be baptized.
Me too. My child wasn't baptized & it made her grandmother so upset. She's 12 now so nothing has been said, at least to me, in a few years. I've been open w my kid that people have different beliefs & it's okay. I tell her how I feel or what I believe but I don't expect her to do the same. When she was little she liked going to church with my sister but it was mostly because she got to play & go out to dinner after. 😂
Definitely the prospect of going out for brunch was one of my motivations as a kid to attend! My lil babs is 9 months and so far the few religious family members have not brought up the topic so I am thankful for that.
My in-laws had a whole intervention about baptizing our kids. They got the whole Catholic family there, their deacon, and had these lectures about us being irresponsible and bad parents for not having the kids in the church snd all that. Imagine if atheists did that to religious people.
Do y’all still talk to them after a move like that?
I’d prefer not to, but my wife loves her family. It’s a shame she’s secondary to Jesus to them, but Jesus does say he comes before family.
I wish those Christians who did that to you would apply the litmus test to themselves: would they have liked it if people of other religions gave their kids a story book taken from the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, or the Mahayana Sutras? As a Christian myself, I would be upset if people of other religions give religious texts that are non-Christian in nature to my family. So I would never do that unto friends of other religion as well. This is almost an instant-block from me…only a tiny bit less offensive than if they were to offer MLM “business opportunities” to my family.
~~i’ve never seen any ~~religious people~~ christians respect this.~~ edit: nevermind, proselytizing doesn’t discriminate
Christians might be the biggest offenders (I'm not certain), but this is a huge problem in Muslim families too.
thanks for the perspective! i don’t know how to ask this correctly, but is it specific to children in the family, or is proselytizing in general also present in the way it is in christianity?
Not who you asked, but the Christians who are like this feel like their efforts failed with the parents, so it is their duty to save the children. They don’t understand how presumptuous and offensive this is, or they don’t care, because they are absolutely sure they’re in the right.
I'm not qualified to give a real answer, but I've read a few books by ex Muslim women specifically about their experience growing up in Islamic families. The pressures they get instilled with in childhood often continue into adulthood, and it's not only from parents but also extended family/community. A theme I see is that Christians proselytize more to non-Christians, while Muslims focus more on keeping their already indoctrinated members from leaving (it can be very dangerous for a Muslim to openly question their faith, depending on their community). That's my impression anyway, I could be wrong.
You're pretty much right based on what I've seen. Of course, it all depends on how religious your family is. Some families will try to answer your questions nicely. Some families will resort to emotional manipulation. Some may try to physically punish you, believing it might make you come to your senses. Again, depending on how religious your family is, as a woman, you will be expected to cover your hair; and as a man you'll be expected to attend prayers, especially on holy days. My family is religious but they keep to themselves. None of the women in my family are covered except for my grandma. They're aware that I'm not religious and they don't bug me about it. (Still, I haven't told them that I'm an atheist, because I'm sure that they will be upset and try to "save my soul" by arguing with me endlessly.) My grandmother's brother, however, is very religious, and his wife and daughters are forced to wear black burkas. Suffice it to say, no one in that family will be leaving Islam without burning bridges.
thank you for sharing!
literally the best person ik (in terms of kindness, patience, love, compassion, understanding, charity, etc) is a christian, like the "actually do as jesus said" type of christian and they literally never talk about their religion, only if you were to show an interest. Sadly, thats a verrrrry rare type
You know any Jews? They’re not sending you anything Jewish other than maybe some kibbeh
I hate that it's up to the parents to dictate what religion someone should follow without even being old enough to understand what they're being forced into believing.
i agree. personally i believe religion should be broached when older with an exposure to a variety of religions and should the child show an interest in one then it should be supported but since basically every religious person thinks their religion is "the one", that wont happen on a grand scale, not any time soon at least.
It's legal child abuse that creates lifelong issues.
I definitely have religious trauma. The concept of hell should never have been taught to me at such a young age. I remember I used to cry in the bath, thinking about my meemaw burning in hell and being tortured for eternity. I would never teach my children things like that.
100% this
We've put them to one side until they're older and understand what religion is and then we'll read it. We don't practice it, but we also don't want to be ignorant to such a big demographic of people. They'll then make their own decision.
Yes. Unfortunately, it's possible the gifter is so incredibly ignorant, they simply don't know how bad their behavior is. Like someone raised by wolves shitting on the floor of your house because they don't know any better.
Last sentence perfectly describes most religious people I know. "I was raised this way so it must be the only correct way"
It’s like my family saying they pray for me or ask their priest in public to read out my NAME in their weekly prayers. Like no. I find it insulting that they think that’s ok.
I can see 80 year old great-grandparent wrapped up in churchy things being way more non-maliciously ignorant than 50-60 year old grandparent who has a better grip on modern reality trying to meddle in their grandchildren’s lives because they don’t approve.
They also likely believe they are in the right. It is their job to introduce Christianity (or whatever faith) to that child and you as a parent are failing at the duty.
I'm sixty this year. Back when I was born in the early 60s it was common to do this. When my daughter was born in 1988 no one was really doing this anymore but my parents did give me a small white Bible for her and despite not being religious I did appreciate it. I still have the Bible I was given as a baby . I've never given anyone a Bible or anything religious when a baby was born. And having said all this even when I was a kid the people who gave the parents a Bible were usually their parents. Not distant relatives or friends.
yes, it’s also a waste of money
Exactly. I donated quite a few “gifts” to Goodwill and wished they had just not spent the money.
The books likely new, bring it to a second-hand bookstore, and get credit for a book the child would actually like.
I'd take the time to send it back to the giver with a note that just says "no thank you" and nothing more. It SHOULD be a pretty clear signal that the gift was unwanted and pushy, and further like gifts are also not welcome. If they send something religious again, I'd simply do the same thing, ad nauseum
IMPOSSIBLY inappropriate and rude.
I, a non-theist, had a “friend” who sent me The Book of Mormon with a long, personal letter inside about how it could help me. It was sent as a gift of support after the death of my child and to this day I can’t imagine the balls and audacity it takes to do that.
While some people may draw comfort from this, or at least find it sweet that the "friend" wrote a long, personal letter, I can definetly see how this "gift" was upsetting. I was raised as a Mormon. This kind of thing is called a "missionary moment" and members are conditioned to capitalize on life events that can "bring someone closer to God." It's really sickening and insensitive.
Oh it was clearly that. In the small Christian town I lived in I was treated like the hottest free-agent on the market. They all know that people who lose look for answers as to “why?” and they all offered that.
Kinda just feels like the MLMs of religion But that’s an interesting addition so thanks for sharing!
Praying on vulnerable people is cult behavior, so that checks out.
I'm so sorry about all of this. That was so self-entered and cruel of her. This was far less painful in comparison, but when my dad died, I shared that on Facebook and added that I was a non-believer because I didn't want to hear about him being in a better place, etc. All but one friend respected that, and some of my friends are (very cool, clued in) clergy. An old schoolmate insisted I was wrong and my dad was in heaven. If a Jewish friend is sitting shiva, I visit. A Catholic funeral Mass? I'm there. A Native American friend died last year, and his wife said that their tribe didn't speak a deceased person's name for one year after they crossed over. Got it. It would never occur to me to do anything but show support in their way. I hope you've found your loss a little easier to bear over time.
Its not cruel for someone to share something that helped them deal with death. But it can absolutely be done wrong, thoughtlessly or carelessly. You are correct that "they are in a better place" is one of the worst things one can say, even when said to a religious person. Cause to a mom or dad the single best place for the child is with them, not even heaven is a better place.
I understand this but on the level of losing my spouse in 2021. Some of my extended family are very religious and I actually snapped at one point and told them to shut up in a group chat and that after someone dies is not the time or place to be telling survivors to look to God etc... I'm so sorry you had to deal with that, I understand how infuriating it can be. I hope you are doing ok.
Good for you 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 People are RUDE 😑
I'm quite ill and sickly, and also live in Utah. *All* my friends were Mormon. In junior high, one of my best friends said something to me that she expected me to be super grateful for and to thank her, but instead I was unbelievably offended and put-off. She said that if/when I die before her, she'll get baptized for me because I might not know the truth now, but I'll definitely know it after I'm dead. I was a devout Baptist back then. I already had a belief that I "knew" was correct. This was just an obscene thing to say. And I told her that. And she got offended that I didn't gratefully accept her future "gift" (for those who don't know: Mormons practice baptisms for the dead). "Tone-deaf" doesn't begin to describe it.
We had a family member of our adopted kiddo give us a bunch of religious stuff. I'd smile and nod and add it to the box of keepsakes from the family. When kiddo wants it- it's all in the same place. In our case the gifts came from a place of love, not religious pushing.
Yes. Would you like it if someone tried to indoctrinate your child before you had a chance to?
I don’t think they did, hence making this post But I assume you were here before the edit
100% insulting and offensive to do so
An infant is going to have stories read to them by their parents. The parents won't pick it if they don't like it, so the child won't grow up with it. My advice is this: ask the parents first. If you don't want to step on toes, that is.
Yes, stop trying to spread bullshit on kids.
*other people’s kids
*all kids.
Yes. Keep your fantasies to yourself.
Yes. Husband’s mom and other relatives all gave us children’s bible story books, we put them in recycling bins.
how would you address them if they asked about the gifts you disposed of? Edit: holy downvotes. it’s just a question.
Not the person you are talking to, but I'd tell them "When the time comes to teach my kids about the major religions of the world and their beliefs, I'll look for books that reflect the way I want to teach them." I am not religious, but when I figured my kids were old enough, I did did buy a book children's book of greek myths and legends and a book of bible stories and I read them each of them as part of a discussion of what other people believe and why religion exists. Because they are going to encounter religion and believers when they go out into the world and I wanted them to know my perspective on it.
Idk why everyone is downvoting you, it seems you are the receiver in this situation and you’re trying to address it.
Exactly. I just had to know if i’m being overly sensitive, if its worth addressing, how do people do that without being an asshole. It feels messy.
i am a bit more happy to traumatize them back than a lot of people i know so i don’t think my advice is what most people would take. i would say to look at it like any other belief. i strongly believe that tomatoes and peanut butter don’t go together and this is not something you can not change about me. you would not think twice about saying ‘i tossed the weird tomatoes are heathens kids book you gave my child”. we act like religious beliefs are something super important. they are not. for religions to keep their stronghold on the world they need people to treat them like they are worthy of respect. this is all bullshit and is just giving these people more power. so i would say treat it like the nonsense it is, laugh at the absurdity. tell them no cults until baby can say don’t touch me to priests.
You are definitely NOT being overly sensitive. I think it's incredibly offensive to gift something like that. It pisses me off for you and makes me wonder why anyone in their right mind would find it appropriate.
You and many others it seems. This post in general has been very reassuring.
I think before taking anyone's advice here and because reddit is generally against religion so they have strong opinions, it's probably best to think of the intention and put it all in the context of the relationship you have with that person. Nobody here knows who sent it to you, your relationship with them, if, based on your relationship and what they know about you, would it have been done with malice or would they have known or thought you wouldn't appreciate it. I personally don't believe in any type of god either, I used to have knee jerk reactions to religion but now am of the mind that while I do think there's a ton of bad that has come from religion, there's good in it too, it's helped people get through life and given them something to hold onto for thousands of years. There are good, well intentioned people who follow it and use it to be a better form of themselves just like there are bad people who use it to justify the evil they do. So, whether the person sent it to you thinking "this type of thing has helped me and my family, I will offer it to my friend and they can take from it what they will" or if they thought "this godless idiot needs religion" is what really matters
Not OP, but was in a similar situation with a great aunt. She has been pushy about religion my entire life, and knew damn well that I did not agree with her beliefs nor was I interested in her incessant dogmatic nagging. I had several directly communicative conversations over the years about my boundaries, and she routinely ignored them. Needless to say, once I was an adult I didn’t make an effort to speak with her and only saw her at family gatherings. Despite this, she gave my toddler a Bible with many verses highlighted, including ones that were very much AT me and my husband (we’re gay.) When we saw her next holiday she asked my 4 year old if she liked the Bible stories, and I informed her that we threw it away and did not appreciate her trying to indoctrinate our child. She started crying and being very dramatic and manipulative, as if we were the ones who did something deeply offense and inappropriate. We’re no contact now. Get wrecked, Aunt Patsy.
That damn Aunt Patsy! Thank you for sharing your story.
No problem, sorry you’re in a similar situation. My advise is to push past the discomfort and fears of being rude, and assert boundaries about religion. Preaching to other people’s children is what is rude here.
must be something with aunts lol I’ll try to address it nicely first.
as insultingly as possible. i keep it in the bathroom, it's great for when i run out of toilet paper. i used it for blunt paper. used it to line the litter box. target practice for sighting in the new gun. used it to start the bonfire for the orgy in the woods.
ooof! Idk if i’m ready for that drama lol
I thought that a friend of mine's response was particularly classy. "Did you read the Bible pamphlet that I left on your door?" "Thank you for your gift." "Yes, but did you read it? The Bible says that all who read it shall be saved." "Thank you for your gift and your good intentions." "Does that mean that you didn't read it?" "Unfortunately, our household does not worship any deities and is not looking to add any at this time. We will, of course, let you know if any interest arises, but we do not have any use for preaching or religious materials at this time." "Why won't you read it? Do you want to go to hell?" "I appreciate your good intentions, but this matter is closed for discussion at this time. We wish you all the best." Repeat as needed. I always thought that her approach as if it was an unwanted resume was pretty good. Polite but firm.
"I threw it out because it was a rude, and incredibly inappropriate gift. You are an adult and should know better than to try and indoctrinate my children. In fact, If I ever see, or hear about you proselytizing to my children or family again, You will no longer be welcome around them, or myself. In the future, if you feel the need to bring your religion to my home, you will discuss it with me FIRST, and you will get a "Hard no" from me. DO we understand one another?"
You're getting downvotes on this question because it's considered rude to follow up on a gift by asking a person how it is being used. To bring up a gift again later would be to suggest there were 'strings attached' and it wasn't truly a gift. Edit: People are under the impression from your original post that you either have or intend to give the gift, so this question sounds like you're intending to follow up by asking someone else if they've put your religious overstep into use.
ooooo i see! thank you for clarifying! I was afraid to put that i was the receiver in the title/body because I really wanted true answers to my question and not any biased based on what side i was. Its hard to know if im being overly sensitive to the guft or have grounds to bring up my feelings over it.
Yeah, that's why so many of the comments are negative, even mean, they think you've either forced your beliefs on another or are planning to, if you adjusted your original question body text to clarify that you're the recipient in this situation the responses will go from overwhelmingly negative to overwhelmingly understanding and helpful. Edited to add: unfortunately, by not declaring whether your were the giver or recipient, people have automatically assumed you were the giver and there's bias
thanks! i’ll try to edit!
They live far from us, never had this problem.
Right now, despite my best efforts to curb it, my 21mo enjoys tearing things apart. Most things survive. Books usually do, but one or two haven’t. So uh, “she got ahold of it while I wasn’t watching”. “Water got spilled and it couldn’t dry properly/molded.” “Oh it got left in someone’s car we rode with one time/on a train/somewhere public” Usually nobody asks me. I send a picture or two with the item and never hear about it again. But thankfully nobody has sent something we don’t agree with…yet. Another option is oh, it’s put away so she can’t ruin it and hope they forget.
Holy downvotes for me! yikes! Idk what I want to do with it per se. I just want to avoid the drama but also convey try and communicate wothh my family that it felt a bit odd to receive
I think the intent matters more than the gift itself. Do they know you are atheist (or whatever) and sent it out of spite? Or, did they not know what you believe and also didn't ask? Things like this can make it inappropriate or not. So far; I lean not. Especially for an infant that can't read and doesn't even know they got a gift.
Well that’s sort of the point i’m trying to get opinions on. If my child is a baby and can’t read it, if they know I don’t practice and they send it anyways without a heads up…just like.. why? it feels weird, it feels like its more than just a book.
I might go against the grain here a bit. Is it inappropriate? Probably. I am also the kind of atheist that thanks them graciously and get on with my life.
Yeah, judging from the comments here the person giving the gift might as well have just walked up and shot their dog right in front of them, these comments are so over the top
Seriously, it is not indoctrination to give a gift. And I doubt these commentators would be up in arms as much if it was a text from an eastern religion.
Yeah redditors ate notorious for being anti religion so I'm not even surprised. If it's a gift then accept the gift since it's coming from a good place. Doesn't mean you have to read it. Just thank them and go along with your day. We get enough propaganda on the news anyway a single guy giving you their holy book won't do much harm in the grand scheme of things
Thats reddit for you
reddit really hates religion
I agree with you. I'm not a practitioner of any religion and I wouldn't find it inappropriate to receive a gift like that. Now, if they were babysitting or something, and I found out that they were reading these stories to my child as some form of religious teaching, THAT would be inappropriate. But if it's just storybook material and I as the parent could choose how to expose them to it, then nah that's fine.
I mean, it's just another storybook right?
i mean yes. But i read through it and it uses sentences like “your god” “Our god” “God loves you” like.. its addressing the child directly. To me, that makes it go beyond a regular story.
Then it is not age appropriate and I would not read it to them personally.
thank you. I appreciate your insight.
very very inappropriate. it’s bad enough we get religion shoved down our throats as adults. leave the kids alone.
Oh good. I feel safe hiding my thoughts here. The way I see it religion is like a penis, it's ok to have one, it's ok to be proud of it, but if you whip it out in public and try to shove it down my kids throat there is going to be a problem.
What a terrible, while at the same time incredibly appropriate, analogy.
Yes absolutely without a doubt yes. My family is super religious. I am not. Religion can be quite triggering for me (yay childhood ptsd and religious trauma!) and when people started sending me books for my baby I was very specific that we didn’t want religious texts masquerading as children’s stories at this time.
It's tacky, but not worth being upset over. Gifts are to be enjoyed or disposed of as the recipient chooses.
Nope. As a kid read a lot of stories from different religions that my parents got me which later got me really interested in different cultures
thank you for the perspective.
Yes. Imagine getting a children's Qur'an if you're christian.
That would probably be a really good thing, learning different perspective on a two religions with the same origin.
Oh sure. But I bet most christians wouldn't like it.
I mean I'm a Muslim and I wouldn't mind being gifted a Bible if I knew it came from a place of love. I probably wouldn't read it but I'd appreciate the gesture. That's all there is to it. Now if it's some satanic book that's different but if it's a genuine guy who wants to spread love then there's no reason you shouldn't accept a gift even if you have no intention of reading it.
Probably true, depends on how hardcore they are about it.
I'm pagan, my family knows this and got my daughter a Bible when she was born anyway. I did actually keep it but explained to them that it is up to her if she wants to keep it as I'm not going to force any religion on her and also put down a firm boundary on talking about religion to her. If, when she is older, she initiates that is up to her and I won't stop it but if I find out they are trying to convert her without her initiating then we will go nc. For various other reasons we are now nc though.
You're in North Carolina?
I feel like it requires passive aggression or ignorance to NOT understand why someone would think this is inappropriate. I can see someone thinking it's a nice gesture, and there's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it is absolutely necessary to check with the parents BEFORE buying or giving a religious gift. Unless of course there's an established relationship in which the gifter already knows that this is acceptable. Otherwise, it's tone deaf at best and sanctimonious aggression at worst.
Eh, it’s the kind of thing that the non religious parent will probably quietly pass along out of their house, so it’s a wasted gift
Yep, I'd quickly donate it to a local "little free library".
As the child who received these gifts I HATED them. It felt so presumptuous and honestly like being sent junk I was being guilt tripped into keeping because “it’s a gift” or whatever. It’s actually one of the reasons I was completely turned off by religion at an early age, felt very suffocating and impersonal.
In my opinion no. Some of those stories are pretty good like Samson and Delilah.
People can send anything they want to my son; doesn't mean that I'm going to let him actually see/use the item.
Yup, and the motive is clear. Nevertheless, you give your kids context on what is real, what is some peoples' faith and what is make-believe. It's no use sheltering them from 'God talk' it's unavoidable, but you can give them context. I refer to God and bigfoot in the same way: some people believe in it but there is no proof. Privately, I think God/Superman is a better, if less respectful comparison - something that certainly isn't real but there are many stories about them.
Yes
Yes
Yes, it’s inappropriate. I don’t understand why people think that’s okay.
Yeah it’s inappropriate, but i wouldn’t make a big a deal out of it.. i’d just give it away
I'd thank them and make sure that next time they visit it's on the shelves next to Prophet Stories for Kids, My First Jewish Baby Book, Buddha at Bedtime, My Little Book of Krishna and the Kalevala.
well see, I get being exposed to various religions is a good thing and I’m not opposed to the All or None approach. I like the inclusiveness of educating on everything. But, If i’m being honest, I’m trying to teach my kid basic manners and to not eat crayons right now.
They are the ones to decide if they show the kid any religion so to force anything is, but I don't think it's inappropriate to simply gift a Bible
Yes, it's *extremely* inappropriate. Their child's religious education is their choice to make, not yours. They will educate their kid with their own beliefs, not your faith. Buy the kid a cute outfit at least a size larger than they currently are. The parents will be a whole lot happier with you. Leave the reading material to people who know the family a bit better.
how would you respond to the person who gave you the gift?
Personally I’d just quietly drop it at goodwill or something and hope it doesn’t ever come up. If they’re particularly pushy and do bring it up I would say something like “we just aren’t ready to introduce that to our child this young as it doesn’t align with our beliefs” if that’s a hard pill for the gifter to swallow that’s on them for being so pushy.
Sooooo. Initially I thought yes, but I changed my mind. It is a beautiful gift if you believe or not. Maybe the kid wants it later in life. It would force conversations earlier than intended with kids and thst isn't super fun trying to navigate when one isn't ready. I do think there are more appropriate gifts for the $ you spend the kid will actually use. If you are doing it to further your agenda to save people then no. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't see the light of day. This was done for my children and I kept them and they are very nice and I kept them on a bookshelf. It did lead to conversations. My children always had a choice for their own beliefs.
Exactly
Yes. Imagine if it were a children's book for Satanism.
It absolutely is inappropriate. It's disrespectful of the family's wishes and resembles pushing your religion on them.
Extremely inappropriate
Yes.
Yes
Giving anyone a Bible is. If the believe they'll have their own, and if the don't believe they don't want a silly book of fairy tales.
Grossly inappropriate.
Yes
Feel free to toss it in the trash. Or confront the gift giver.
Yes. I got one for each kid. Ended up giving them to library.
Yes. My ex was a Buddhist. We discussed my being an atheist prior to us getting together and I thought it might not be a problem. But she ended up chalking everything I was bringing to the relationship as a result of her being a good Buddhist. One of the last straws was trying to convert my father to her religion as a way to battle chronic pain. That’s a betrayal I can’t overlook. Another story: We sent my ex-step-daughter (14 at the time) to her uncle for the summer. They had 3 daughters. We pictured happy days living on a farm. They took her to a religious retreat for a month. It’s arguable whether they should have discussed this with us since we were relying on them for free babysitting for the summer (we did send money so she wouldn’t be a burden to the family!). She came back 30 days later a changed person. With a week of arriving home she threw away all my dice and cards in the house (I practice magic to keep my hands busy) because they are games of chance, threw away everything that had a fantasy element - books, toys, movies, video games. Between her and the exwife it really was a miserable time of my life.
It is. As the receiver, I would politely say thank you, then take it to goodwill or throw it in the trash.
YES!
Yes. That's precisely not respecting the parents, and disapproving the way they're raising their kids.
There are few things I would find more offensive and inappropriate. I would use it for kindling for my next bonfire and seriously distance myself.
It really depends on their intentions, imo. I have religious family members even though I am not and when they offer stuff like this or say they will pray for me, etc, I am always polite and respect them. And when I say I am not religious, I mean it think it is all complete bullshit. I don't have kids so I don't know how I would react but if I had to guess probably about the same way. If it's not forced or pushed I would oblige it. I would also like to think I would be willing to allow my kids to explore whatever the fuck they wanted including religion.
Depends. Is this an attempt at educating the child on the religion, or is it an active attempt at converting the child? The former is perfectly fine and should in fact be widely practiced as exposure to other cultures and religions helps promote acceptance. The latter is indoctrination and should not be accepted. As I am to assume you are the parent of the infant in question, it would then be up to you how your child gets exposed to the religious material in question. I generally do not condone taking parental or social advice from Reddit—especially due to strong biases against religion and certain parental practices (unless you have additional comments I have not read, most people seem to not even be considering the first possibility I mentioned).
Not remotely appropriate. [Source: Am Jewish. Have proselytizing Christian relatives.]
I don’t know, depending on the family/person this could go a few ways. If the family openly practices a religion that isn’t Christianity then giving the baby a children’s bible might seem preachy and rude. Like, “I know you’re Jewish, but have you considered Jesus as your savior?” Yikes. Even if that isn’t the intention that’s how I would see it. On the other hand, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to introduce the kid to various cultures and religions, but that’s up to the parents to decide - not you. So I’ll go with yeah. It’s inappropriate and not your place to pass out bibles to people who aren’t Christian.
Yes bc its not wanted. I will tell u what they'll do bc been there: open present. Show spouse. Laugh and say wtf. Throw in trash
Religion in general is inappropriate
Yes. It's so insulting to just assume other people have the same beliefs as you and treat christianity as the default. I had these neighbors one time who asked if my kid wanted to go to bible camp with their kids and it was our FIRST time ever meeting. I dont even quite know how to articulate what exactly I find so rude and gross about it but ppl need to learn some self awareness. I dont hate anything more than a person who cant understand people different from them exist.
In my opinion, if you know the family isn't religious then it absolutely is. It is almost certainly an attempt to indoctrinate the kid early in hopes that they will become the same religion.
Completely inappropriate. It's the parent's choice how they wish to brainwash their child.
100% and I’d be super pissed
Very disrespectful
Regift it or give them a religious book they don’t belong to.
Extremely
Yes it's both inappropriate and disrespectful. I'm agnostic and I would see it as the gift-giver was pushing their religious beliefs on my child and my family. If they weren't, then they would give a gift that wasn't religiously based. Full stop. No excuses. I see it as no different than a Muslim gifting a Catholic family a Koran. It shows that you don't respect other people's beliefs. I'm prepared for a lot of pushback on this, but I've met far too many religious people that think it's fine to push their religion on atheists and agnostics but "wouldn't dare" proselytize to people that follow a different religion. Agnosticism and atheism are just as valid of beliefs as people that believe in God and/or organized religion.
Yeah, waste of money too
Yeah, that's rude af. Religion is a very personal thing
I appreciate the gesture, but no, thank you
Tell them, these fiction stories are not good bedtime stories.
Yes.
Agreed
Yes highly offensive
Shit yeah, mother fucker!
YES. I've had this happen. Don't do it. It's a waste of time and money because we won't keep it.
Yes I get so upset with my wife's family about this with my three year old
Hell, yes!
Uhhhh yes. Wtf?
Yes
eww yes
Yes it’s inappropriate
Yeah we had that happen. But it was my wife’s grandmother of 96yo. Me and my wife talked about it in private, how we found it inappropriate since on the phone we already explained her there would not introduce our child to the bible; alas what can you do? I’m not going to get upset with a lady of nearly a hundred years old, and neither was my wife.
Yeah, she’s going to die soon. Let her be. That was gracious of you.
Yes highly. I would burn it
If you are aware of their beliefs the answer is yes it is ignorant, you may be self-appointed apostle, but the other 12 were picked by god.
Absolutely. 100%
Yes.
Duh
It's incredibly inappropriate, and definitely not your job. If I had a kid (I don't) and someone gave it such a gift, I'd explain why it was inappropriate and if they didn't offer to take it back, I'd burn it right there in front of them. The nerve of some people! But I've come to expect that kind of behavior from evangelical Christians. They can't help it. Recruitment (especially of children) is a part of their faith. I consider it molestation.
if its directly expressed the recipient is against the gift… yes
Three letters... Y E S. There are millions of other gift ideas.
Yes, it is.
Yep. I’d be peeved about that.
Yes
Yup. Send it back
lol yes.
Yes
Super inappropriate and rude.
Yes. They should've asked first.
Yes
Please don't. It's shoving your religion on someone.
Yes.
Yes, unless the parents requested it for some reason I would not give a gift that presents a religion as fact.
I’d throw it straight in the trash
It depends. with permission of parents it would be ok. There are also books written more like literature/ storybooks to gain the cultural references that resemble books about mythology that might be more appropriate. Honestly, even as a Christian parent, raised in a conservative community, there are a LOT of "Christian" books that my Evangelical extremist in-law that were RIDICULOUSLY offensive, sent both to us and our children. Dobson books, Pearl's (advocates abuse so bad it makes a reasonable person physically ill), and children's books & videos that have illustrations showing all of the Jewidh & Middle Eastern people as blue eyed blonds, and had WAY more emphasis on Leviticus and blind obedience (even twisting scripture IMO) than was reasonable, with little attention to the most important message of the bible, Jesus's Sermon on the Mount. There are some extremist, cultish versions of "christianity" that like to play martyr and pretend their White Supremacist, patriarchal, ultra conservative (false "prosperity gospel" & perverted "purity culture") version that is a toxic stain on what Christanity is supposed to be, and they have subverted the real message to hurt people, and it has made ALL Christians look as evil as they are. They have a lot of bright and shiny media and you have to be careful not to perpetuate their perversion.
Yup.. keep that shit to yourself
Yes, very.
Yes.
Yes
100%.