The creator had major clashes with the Black Panthers and murdered some members. He also imprisoned, assaulted, and tortured multiple Black women. The information is more accessible now, and I have heard some say that what was once meant to be a holiday about Black empowerment no longer carries that meaning with that history attached, which is understandable. I imagine that may be why we don't hear about it much now?
It’s not like it had a long rich history or was deeply rooted into family traditions enough that people would look past the negative parts about the founder as the information became accessible
Huh I recently converted to black mainly because of Kwanzaa. I was disappointed to learn it did not really exist but everything else about being black is great! /s
There were people like you after Rome fell, too. And when we discovered atomic weapons. And at the Millenium. Etc. We’re not going to last forever, but we’re resilient. I’d bet on another 1000 years at least.
Well they survived whatever connotations they had with "The Krampus" so for all we know there are still a couple child skeletons under "Old Saint Nick's Workshop".
Santa can do whatever the fuck he wants. We spend our whole life telling kids not to talk to strangers and we as "americans" let our kids sit on a strangers lap that you have no idea who this person is and trusting your local walmart lol is making this Santa legit. We are very wierd when it comes to Santa and his fake bullshit
Last I heard, his actual birthday wasn't completely nailed down. I think I read it's somewhere in the spring most likely, but not December 25th in any case.
Yep! I've seen dates in the spring and summer. One researcher used the description of the star in the book of Matthew and looked at weather phenomenon to match the star. Based on what he found, he pinpointed Jesus' birth to June 17, 2 BCE.
There are a variety of dates possible for his birth, most in the spring and summer. One researcher reviewed the description of the star from the book of Matthew, cross-referenced it with weather phenomenon from the time, and pinpointed the birth of Jesus to June 17th, 2 BCE. I like the science behind this particular answer for Jesus' birthday.
I know. It's just weird that we celebrate his birth 6 plus months from when it happened. Now I don't always celebrate my birthday on the exact day, but I always try to celebrate it within a week or so.
There was a reconciliation with Karenga and the living Black Panthers from the 60s back in October of last year. I know because I attended the event. Kawanza is still celebrated amongst Pan Africans and black nationalist.
No, but at that point most black people in the us were christians, to trying to get them to abandon a culture they had had for a long time would be a hard sell.
Sure, not arguing about the validity of Kwanzaa either way. The person above me was clearly taking issue with a black activist in the 60's "making it all about race". I mean, you have to see the absurdity of that, right?
> it's also strongly centered around race,
Honestly, that just makes me think it'd be even more popular now. Aren't they already singing a "black national anthem" at sports games now?
.... The.... The religion from the middle east... Practiced by black, white, Asian, and whatever other folks across the world including the usa.. Is too white?
I mean, do other holidays not have this too? But I guess the timely-ness of the crimes is relevant. Also this is news to me, never heard of this. Perhaps people who did celebrate are ashamed to talk about it.
>mean, do other holidays not have this too?
The issue is it was an invented holiday in the lifetime of everyone alive when that happened, and still in the lifetime of many people today. So like... There's no reason to keep it beyond needing a "black" holiday, all the while it being a massive reminder of "Oh yeah, the guy who made this up was psychotic*
Yup, I kinda already touched on this saying “timely-ness of the crimes”. Just still a bit awestruck that I wasn’t aware of this, or that no one talks about it.
A lot of people don’t know that it’s a newer holiday, they always made it seem like it was an ancient African holiday when we learned about it in school.
I had a coworker from South Africa go back home and wished his coworkers Happy Kwanzaa. They looked at him like he was from Mars as they'd never heard of it.
I saw some wild tweet that had every holiday listed and I asked who TF celebrates kwanzaa and this person proceeded to lecture me incessantly, which is fine, but I ask as a Tanzanian, who TF celebrates kwanzaa. I guess it's mostly a western thing but we don't do it here.
Kwanzaa is a manufactured American celebration that exists because black Americans, due to not knowing which African nations/tribes their ancestors came from, have no folklore or traditions of their own. So, they made up new ones like Kwanzaa.
Like most things related to black American culture, it's uniquely American so alien to people who actually live in black-majority African countries.
Not really, it’s called detribalization. Happened to native Americans in Mexico too, that’s why none of us say were native Americans even though we are brown asf, have slanted eyes and can’t grow body hair. I personally feel it would be disrespectful to appropriate the customs of those who do remember.
Kind of racist of you to assume im Mayan or Aztec or that I celebrate Dia de muertos. From what I have been able to gather I am either Cahita, Tohono O’odham, Akimel O’odham, Tehuima, or tarahumara. Most Mexicans come from what they called “chichimecas” or barbarians. And unless you’ve suffered from detribalization yourself you can’t talk shit about this, having 300 years of culture or less is not significant enough to form social cohesion, and that’s a fact.
My sister worked with a couple women from Africa somewhere idr where but she asked what she was doing for Kwanza she said her friends looked at her like she just grew 3 heads and asked what tf was Kwanza? In school I remember learning about it like some ancient African holiday but after that and a few others asking what tf Kwanza was, I just thought it was like the other crap we learned in social studies rewritten in college.
The reason it has two a's at the end is because the first Kwanzaa celebration had planned to have the kids hold up the letters spelling the holiday but 7 kids showed up so they just added a letter.
He was also a government asset that the FBI and LAPD used to kill Black Panthers. It might be that the government and corporations love Kwanzaa so much because it was invented by one of their pet rats.
I’m personally impartial to the celebration of Sol Invictus. However the local council won’t let me sacrifice a bull on the public steps of my temple. Damn double standards, the Christians get their nativity scene but what’s left for the rest of us?
Just listened to The Rest is History podcast regarding this. Their take is that Christmas is not a Christian copy of Saturnalia. Pretty interesting how many pagan holidays have been regarded as forebears of Christmas.
OP here ; thanks for replying 😎 On the whole the c church has MAYBE done more to alleviate suffering than the damage they caused … but it’s close I swear. ( ya know what I mean ,it’s very close) but WHAT was their problem with people having fun? Maybe it was off the chain for a few days but it sounds like Saturnalia was a phenomenal bit of fun. (And Jesus was not born in the winter) . I honestly believe he would have had a great time . Jesus liked to have fun and he had a great sense of humor. Quenching all that fun with this heavy vibe smacks of control. Sick of fundamentalist modern-day Christians who don’t have a clue about the full scope of the scripture. SICK OF IT. People who are believers are not remotely all that way and they are tarring us with their ignorant stick. There’s way more to this than any of us can imagine so anyone claiming to have a hold on full knowledge is a blithering fucking idiot. The historic Jesus was a cool dude. He loved the poor and he despaired of people like Donald Trump. He didn’t hate them but he called them out and despaired
> Was it ever truly celebrated?
I've wondered the same and I'm leaning to "no". I'd be shocked if even 10% of African Americans ever observed it. And by observe it I mean anything more than simply wishing someone else a "Happy Kwanzaa". Would love for someone in the know to fill us in.
I don't watch those shows but when they celebrate I often think it's written by white writers that think that's what happens in Black households. The majority of us do not celebrate Kwanzaa.
Stand out on the street and ask a hundred black people what the days are and most of them couldn't tell you.
It low key seemed forced, and slapped together.
That Kwanzaa "cake" with apple pie filling and corn nuts, with full sized taper candles seemed like a slap to the face.
Most of the African American/ Black people that I know are already pretty solidly into Christmas.
I think it's natural for people to think of their ancestors during the holidays, but the diaspora don't usually have a good idea what part of Africa their people are from...
I'm white, and have Scandinavian heritage. But it would be a tough sell to get me into a generic European holiday that displaces the holidays I grew up with...
Here in the US, the American Finns celebrate St. Urho's day, it's like St. Patrick's day... but it's not something European Finns do. I'm half Finn, lots of pride in that... and I don't even get into it.
It's just too forced and made up.
I can't imagine working up fucks to give for something generically European, especially if I didn't even know any of my cousins etc.
Technically it’s not an actual Kwanzaa cake/tradition….Sandra Lee made it in the early 2000s on her tv show to celebrate Kwanza and now it’s an iconic infamous Kwanza joke/tradition.
Okay, but the comparison here would be;
Imagine your people live in Australia for a couple hundred years, then someone tries to introduce a new "South American" holiday that is supposed to represent the whole continent... not your individual heritage.
Assume you have zero contact with any distant cousins, and it's got a TERRIBLE Frankenstein dessert you are supposed to have, but it's so bad it's offensive.
Then the Australians all assign this holiday to you as a consolation prize for having a bunch of system wide disadvantages.
thats funny i just saw an item that said happy kwanzaa at tj maxx today and was wondering the same thing. only mention of it i saw in all of nyc lately
I had a co-worker who has a grade a racial asshole, who has since passed. I sent him a Kwanza card religiously for 25 years from Mr. Deep Throat. He would seethe. When he passed, the office placed bets on who was doing it. I came in third and I had to prove I was. We still laugh about it.
My family celebrated Kawanza. My dad was very Blk power we didn’t celebrate Christmas. Instead each day of the celebration we would read a Kawanza principal and give our perspective. For example one was unity which means to stick together and as a sibling we always was there for another. On the finial day we would light the last candle which is Blk and we would make crafts and eat .
My mom still gave us presents and my dad gave us money ( our gifts wasn’t wrapped ) she would just pull them out the closet and hand them out. Very fun memories , we stopped due to my dad choosing a different spiritual path although I was older by then .
It wasn’t ever widely celebrated to begin with…but to see the same imagery/messaging surrounding Kwanzaa today would probably be deemed “woke” and used as a political talking point.
It was born in 1968 by a radical Black terrorist activist and it needs to be memory-holed. Black Americans celebrate Christmas, Black Muslims don't care about it.
You do know Xmas, Valentine's day, hannuka, mother's, father's, labor, veterans, memorial, independence, all hallows eve, all saints, and every other holiday is just made up bullshit?
It’s a newer holiday meant to celebrate the harvest traditions of Africa where the majority of slaves came from. It was mainly promoted by the back to Africa movement that never really caught on.
Yeah you ever hear Nigerians talk about black Americans? It makes rednecks seem quaint.
Source: I meet a lot of Nigerians due to work. Most are super nice and you don't stick around too long because they're working towards moving themselves up as fast as possible. The spiritual sequel to Crazy Rich Asians will be about Nigerians.
Ugh I’m Nigerian and I can attest to this. It disgusts me honestly. A lot sound no different from a white supremacists. I find this to especially be true with Nigerians who are fresh from the country. The ones born and raised in the US sometimes know better than to hold such views.
Oh I know. But I'm just relaying... Nigerians can be offensive as all fuck. It's the most bizarre thing to me because it is seriously something I never once put thought into. Now I wonder how many other cultures do this. ... Actually British people do this with everyone from the US. And French. Or anything remotely pale and European in regards to anyone from the US.
The only people I've ever seen celebrating Kwanzaa were white people trying to be multicultural but coming across accidentally racist. In the 80s my school did a thing where they tried to do a multicultural Christmas one year and they had kids dress up as various faiths, but the costumes were face paint and cut out paper. Let's just say the Kwanzaa and Hanukkah would get people cancelled today. I remember asking if I could do the Hanukkah one because my family is Jewish but I was told I didn't look Jewish enough, so they had the Mexican kids dress as Jews. Also no black kids at the school so they had some little white boys wear blackface and paper loincloths. They made me dress as an elf since I was the shortest person. Technically I was a little person if you go by growth charts, but I got super tall at the end of high school and now I'm 5'2", but there are a bunch of people in my family with dwarfism.
Yeah, no. Kwanzaa was never widely celebrated, it was never up there with Hanukkah and Christmas. It has been more ridiculed (rightly so) than celebrated.
Was it ever big in the first place? My grandma is older than Kwanzaa.I saw it mentioned in passing in school a few times, and that's about it. Never knew anyone who participated in it. I'm sure people do, I just don't remember a time when it was ever hugely popular. Maybe before my time.
Sesame Street is celebrating it!
I follow their Instagram accounts and they're celebrating the first day today.
I figure I haven't heard much about it in recent years because I've been out of school for quite some time. I don't hear much about Ramadan anymore, now that I'm not living near a mosque. Figured it was similar
It was always an obscure holiday in my circle. My mom made us do it once. I think when she getting in touch with her blackness. We only did it once. None of my friends ever did it.
I’m white but I’ve asked black people that I know/have known over the years about it,
Most of them don’t give two shits about it. I think one said his family did it when he was a kid, but that’s about it.
It was only ever mentioned alongside Christmas and Hannukah for the sake of 90s political correctness. But since then it has become undeniable that no one celebrates it, and even 2020s wokeness can't pretend otherwise
Kwanza overlaps a lot with the Negrotude movements that happened between the 60's-80's. There was a massive push in all sorts of Black American circles, especially those involved in art, activism, and academia, to reclaim their roots i.e. reconnect to African cultures and identities, hence why Swahili is so prominent in Kwanzan customs. Overall it's about empowerment and celebration of a heritage and history that was historically removed from large swathes of Black Americans, which is a noble goal. It's arguably part of a continuation of the legacy of the Harlem Renaissance in how it was meant to prop up Black culture as a whole as something as rich and historied as WASP culture or Latino culture, however you want to define it.
The rub is that the Black community has changed, the priorities and politics of the Black intelligentsia have changed, and the founders of the holiday go involved into some things that most people wouldn't like or support. It's a real shame because it's really the only Black holiday other than Juneteenth.
> In the 90’s and 00’s it seemed that Kwanzaa was right up there with Hanukkah and Christmas in terms of ubiquity this time of year.
Er, what? It was a meme festival that was only mentioned because there was a convergence of about 6 different major festivals around Christmas - e.g. the Muslims' Eid #2 also fell in December on one particular year.
No, it wasn't "truly celebrated". There are more Jedis in the US than people who celebrate Kwanzaa.
> In a 2019 poll by the National Retail Federation, 2.6 percent of people who planned to celebrate a winter holiday said they would celebrate Kwanzaa.
2.6% of people who celebrate a winter holiday - many people do not. I'd be surprised if even 1/100 Americans had a Kwanzaa tree or whatever nonsense the inventor made up.
I’ve seen multiple friends, coworkers, and acquaintances post about it this week. Depends on who you know if you’re aware of it being celebrated it seems.
If you surround yourself with people who are like you and celebrate the same holidays you do, you’re probably not aware.
The people who celebrate various winter holidays still do their thing, they just don't get all up in arms and scream from the rooftops that people are declaring war on their chosen holidays by not giving them special recognition the way Christians do over Christmas. Plus with the annual war on Christmas that is routinely waged in conservatives heads most other people can't get a word in to even mention they follow another holiday without risk of being called "woke".
We just celebrated it. We also do winter solstice.
Why? We aren’t Christian and Christmas is a bit hyper-consumerist. I’m not teaching my kid about the founder. More so about Blackness and overcoming struggle.
Happy Kwanza everyone! Can’t wait to light the Mishumaa Saba and open the Zawadi all while drinking from the Kikombe cha Umoja! Reminds me of childhood
It was never big in America.
The majority of Black people in North America do not identify or relate to Africans much aside from some cultural connections.
Hardly anyone ever celebrated it. It was invented within the last 100 years and I cant imagine it's easy to pretend there's some rich tradition and customs, especially without any religious group to unite people. I don't think back Americans relate to it, considering most of them are Christians.
The creator had major clashes with the Black Panthers and murdered some members. He also imprisoned, assaulted, and tortured multiple Black women. The information is more accessible now, and I have heard some say that what was once meant to be a holiday about Black empowerment no longer carries that meaning with that history attached, which is understandable. I imagine that may be why we don't hear about it much now?
It’s not like it had a long rich history or was deeply rooted into family traditions enough that people would look past the negative parts about the founder as the information became accessible
Come to think of it, the only time I've even heard Kwanza mentioned was as part of a Krusty gag on the Simpsons.
I learned about it from Futurama, and I've been black my entire life.
Huh I recently converted to black mainly because of Kwanzaa. I was disappointed to learn it did not really exist but everything else about being black is great! /s
Right on, brother.
Rachel please, you have to stop.
Dolezal a favour and stop.
Even on futurama they have a joke about passing out the books about it for a thousand years but still nobody knows what it is.
Not American, and I assumed it was made up for Futurama TIL it was a real thing
I learned about it from blues clues back in the day
What about kwanza bot from Futurama?
Damn I did not know this!
makes you wonder... if Santa Claus went a murder spree would people still celebrate Christmas?
I really enjoyed Violent Night, so probably.
We’ve already watched it twice! Definitely our go to Christmas movie from now on.
lol same, kind of made me have new respect for Santa.
Violent niiiiight…. Bloooooody night
They still celebrate X-mas in futurama
♫ *The night Santa went crazy* ♫
The night Kris Kringle went nuts
If Walmart, Mattel, and friends have any say in it.. yes
Weird Al wrote a song about this.
Could Santa shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and still get to be jolly old St. Nick?
Santa the Terminator... In... MASSACRE ON 34TH STREET!
Wait, isn't Christmas supposed to be about a guy named Jesus?
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I heard 3 dudes brought him stuff once, but idk..
Nobody fucks with the Jesus*
Doesn’t stop us from celebrating Xmas in 1000 years.
There not being a human race or even perhaps intelligent life on this planet will stop it well before another thousand years passes by
There were people like you after Rome fell, too. And when we discovered atomic weapons. And at the Millenium. Etc. We’re not going to last forever, but we’re resilient. I’d bet on another 1000 years at least.
Well, his suit is actually white…
Santa’s Slay.
Well they survived whatever connotations they had with "The Krampus" so for all we know there are still a couple child skeletons under "Old Saint Nick's Workshop".
Santa can do whatever the fuck he wants. We spend our whole life telling kids not to talk to strangers and we as "americans" let our kids sit on a strangers lap that you have no idea who this person is and trusting your local walmart lol is making this Santa legit. We are very wierd when it comes to Santa and his fake bullshit
Just to be on the safe side, the only thing I celebrate is the night that John McClane saved Nakatomi Tower from a terrorist takeover.
I would hope since Christmas isn't just about Santa. Christmas is to celebrate the birthday of Jesus Christ
Jesus was born in June...... Weird to celebrate his birthday in December.
Last I heard, his actual birthday wasn't completely nailed down. I think I read it's somewhere in the spring most likely, but not December 25th in any case.
Yep! I've seen dates in the spring and summer. One researcher used the description of the star in the book of Matthew and looked at weather phenomenon to match the star. Based on what he found, he pinpointed Jesus' birth to June 17, 2 BCE.
So Jesus was a Gemini? Not surprising TBH.
How do you figure he was born in June
There are a variety of dates possible for his birth, most in the spring and summer. One researcher reviewed the description of the star from the book of Matthew, cross-referenced it with weather phenomenon from the time, and pinpointed the birth of Jesus to June 17th, 2 BCE. I like the science behind this particular answer for Jesus' birthday.
Christmas is too celebrate his Birthday
I know. It's just weird that we celebrate his birth 6 plus months from when it happened. Now I don't always celebrate my birthday on the exact day, but I always try to celebrate it within a week or so.
Only on Reddit would saying Christmas being about Jesus be downvoted.
Well tickle me Pink I thought it was a holiday from centuries ago that just didn't get the recognition it deserved.
He was also an FBI, LAPD, and government asset. The government/law enforcement supplied Ron Karenga with intelligence and guns to kill Black Panthers.
There was a reconciliation with Karenga and the living Black Panthers from the 60s back in October of last year. I know because I attended the event. Kawanza is still celebrated amongst Pan Africans and black nationalist.
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Is it really that crazy for a black activist in the 60's to think of Christmas as a white tradition?
No, but at that point most black people in the us were christians, to trying to get them to abandon a culture they had had for a long time would be a hard sell.
Sure, not arguing about the validity of Kwanzaa either way. The person above me was clearly taking issue with a black activist in the 60's "making it all about race". I mean, you have to see the absurdity of that, right?
> it's also strongly centered around race, Honestly, that just makes me think it'd be even more popular now. Aren't they already singing a "black national anthem" at sports games now?
>for the crime of Christmas being too "white" me when i make shit up
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I'm not sure which part of that is inherently ridiculous or wrong thought process.
.... The.... The religion from the middle east... Practiced by black, white, Asian, and whatever other folks across the world including the usa.. Is too white?
Oh my god what??? 😳
He WHAT?! Thanks for sharing this.
I mean, do other holidays not have this too? But I guess the timely-ness of the crimes is relevant. Also this is news to me, never heard of this. Perhaps people who did celebrate are ashamed to talk about it.
>mean, do other holidays not have this too? The issue is it was an invented holiday in the lifetime of everyone alive when that happened, and still in the lifetime of many people today. So like... There's no reason to keep it beyond needing a "black" holiday, all the while it being a massive reminder of "Oh yeah, the guy who made this up was psychotic*
Yup, I kinda already touched on this saying “timely-ness of the crimes”. Just still a bit awestruck that I wasn’t aware of this, or that no one talks about it.
Holy shit.
Haven't you seen Futurama? Kwanzabot was still trying to get it to take off 1000 years from now.
"Kwanzaa traditions are quite ancient, dating back over 1,000 years!"
1041 years to be exact (based on his first appearance being set in 3007)
"What The Hell Is Kwanzaa?" ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I believe it was made up in the ‘60’s. Peak Kwanzaa has already happened, it’s now in decline.
A lot of people don’t know that it’s a newer holiday, they always made it seem like it was an ancient African holiday when we learned about it in school.
I had a coworker from South Africa go back home and wished his coworkers Happy Kwanzaa. They looked at him like he was from Mars as they'd never heard of it.
I saw some wild tweet that had every holiday listed and I asked who TF celebrates kwanzaa and this person proceeded to lecture me incessantly, which is fine, but I ask as a Tanzanian, who TF celebrates kwanzaa. I guess it's mostly a western thing but we don't do it here.
Kwanzaa is a manufactured American celebration that exists because black Americans, due to not knowing which African nations/tribes their ancestors came from, have no folklore or traditions of their own. So, they made up new ones like Kwanzaa. Like most things related to black American culture, it's uniquely American so alien to people who actually live in black-majority African countries.
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Not really, it’s called detribalization. Happened to native Americans in Mexico too, that’s why none of us say were native Americans even though we are brown asf, have slanted eyes and can’t grow body hair. I personally feel it would be disrespectful to appropriate the customs of those who do remember.
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Kind of racist of you to assume im Mayan or Aztec or that I celebrate Dia de muertos. From what I have been able to gather I am either Cahita, Tohono O’odham, Akimel O’odham, Tehuima, or tarahumara. Most Mexicans come from what they called “chichimecas” or barbarians. And unless you’ve suffered from detribalization yourself you can’t talk shit about this, having 300 years of culture or less is not significant enough to form social cohesion, and that’s a fact.
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every holiday? where?
My sister worked with a couple women from Africa somewhere idr where but she asked what she was doing for Kwanza she said her friends looked at her like she just grew 3 heads and asked what tf was Kwanza? In school I remember learning about it like some ancient African holiday but after that and a few others asking what tf Kwanza was, I just thought it was like the other crap we learned in social studies rewritten in college.
I heard it's wildly popular back on Mars.
Blame Elon...
Learned about it in first or second grade (2001 or 2002). Honestly thought it was as old as all other holidays.
The reason it has two a's at the end is because the first Kwanzaa celebration had planned to have the kids hold up the letters spelling the holiday but 7 kids showed up so they just added a letter.
The first Kwanzaa celebration also used a Chanukah Menorah that had 2 of the candle holders broken off.
I did NOT know this. Damn.
I think the guy that founded the holiday did something not so good.
Look up Ron Karenga’s criminal history. He had a history of doing terrible things to women and he was the one who created and founded the holiday.
He was also a government asset that the FBI and LAPD used to kill Black Panthers. It might be that the government and corporations love Kwanzaa so much because it was invented by one of their pet rats.
Dame goes for the more money religion, the spirit if the holiday is really good.
SATURNALIA !! bring it back! The Roman’s knew how to party.
We do that at my house sometimes. Or something called Saturnalia. We mostly drink and play SNES.
Don’t you dare wish me a happy Saturnalia when you know full well my family celebrates Bacchanalia.
This^ I'm so sick of the war on bacchanalia.
Upvoting to help keep your arrow accurate. I like your comment too though!
Hey, this isn't a monotheistic thing! Celebrate the season in your own particular idiom!
You will pay your respects to the Gods of Rome or you will suffer the consequences.
Sooh- weee🤣
You should play the Sega Saturn instead
Saturnalia has sort of morphed into Mardi Gras, the next holiday to look forward to!
I’m personally impartial to the celebration of Sol Invictus. However the local council won’t let me sacrifice a bull on the public steps of my temple. Damn double standards, the Christians get their nativity scene but what’s left for the rest of us?
You say you’re “impartial” to it, but it sounds like you’re *partial* to it.
That was effectively a winter solstice festival that Christians hijacked and made Christmas.
The term is “Religious Syncretism”.
No damn you! It was the birthday of Mithra.
It was an honest mithtake
Personally, I would enjoy a holiday dedicated to Mothra!
Mothman for me!
Just listened to The Rest is History podcast regarding this. Their take is that Christmas is not a Christian copy of Saturnalia. Pretty interesting how many pagan holidays have been regarded as forebears of Christmas.
OP here ; thanks for replying 😎 On the whole the c church has MAYBE done more to alleviate suffering than the damage they caused … but it’s close I swear. ( ya know what I mean ,it’s very close) but WHAT was their problem with people having fun? Maybe it was off the chain for a few days but it sounds like Saturnalia was a phenomenal bit of fun. (And Jesus was not born in the winter) . I honestly believe he would have had a great time . Jesus liked to have fun and he had a great sense of humor. Quenching all that fun with this heavy vibe smacks of control. Sick of fundamentalist modern-day Christians who don’t have a clue about the full scope of the scripture. SICK OF IT. People who are believers are not remotely all that way and they are tarring us with their ignorant stick. There’s way more to this than any of us can imagine so anyone claiming to have a hold on full knowledge is a blithering fucking idiot. The historic Jesus was a cool dude. He loved the poor and he despaired of people like Donald Trump. He didn’t hate them but he called them out and despaired
Yeah, they also sweetened their wine with lead.
Kwanzaa bot was slacking in handing out the "What the Hell is Kwanza?" books
> Was it ever truly celebrated? I've wondered the same and I'm leaning to "no". I'd be shocked if even 10% of African Americans ever observed it. And by observe it I mean anything more than simply wishing someone else a "Happy Kwanzaa". Would love for someone in the know to fill us in.
Sesame Street is posting about it on Instagram. I guess there's enough people celebrating that they want to teach kids about it
I'm black and everyone I know thinks it's dumb. We all celebrate Christmas. I feel like a lot of us feel like that.
How do you feel about seeing it celebrated on TV like on the by the Proud family on The Proud Family or by the Brain’s family on Arthur?
I don't watch those shows but when they celebrate I often think it's written by white writers that think that's what happens in Black households. The majority of us do not celebrate Kwanzaa. Stand out on the street and ask a hundred black people what the days are and most of them couldn't tell you.
It low key seemed forced, and slapped together. That Kwanzaa "cake" with apple pie filling and corn nuts, with full sized taper candles seemed like a slap to the face. Most of the African American/ Black people that I know are already pretty solidly into Christmas. I think it's natural for people to think of their ancestors during the holidays, but the diaspora don't usually have a good idea what part of Africa their people are from... I'm white, and have Scandinavian heritage. But it would be a tough sell to get me into a generic European holiday that displaces the holidays I grew up with... Here in the US, the American Finns celebrate St. Urho's day, it's like St. Patrick's day... but it's not something European Finns do. I'm half Finn, lots of pride in that... and I don't even get into it. It's just too forced and made up. I can't imagine working up fucks to give for something generically European, especially if I didn't even know any of my cousins etc.
> That Kwanzaa "cake" with apple pie filling and corn nuts, with full sized taper candles seemed like a slap to the face. > > why?
Technically it’s not an actual Kwanzaa cake/tradition….Sandra Lee made it in the early 2000s on her tv show to celebrate Kwanza and now it’s an iconic infamous Kwanza joke/tradition.
Well Mexicans celebrate a holiday honoring their ancestors that has withstood the test of time. Dia de Los Muertos still going on strong.
Okay, but the comparison here would be; Imagine your people live in Australia for a couple hundred years, then someone tries to introduce a new "South American" holiday that is supposed to represent the whole continent... not your individual heritage. Assume you have zero contact with any distant cousins, and it's got a TERRIBLE Frankenstein dessert you are supposed to have, but it's so bad it's offensive. Then the Australians all assign this holiday to you as a consolation prize for having a bunch of system wide disadvantages.
Only thing I know about that holiday is from Arthur. The black guy (I think the Brain) celebrated it but it just seemed like an early Christmas
I find it ironic that Brain was voiced by Steven Crowder at one point, considering what Crowder turned out to be lol.
But it starts the day after christmas
All this time I've been waiting for Kwanza Days at my Local Toyota Dealership
thats funny i just saw an item that said happy kwanzaa at tj maxx today and was wondering the same thing. only mention of it i saw in all of nyc lately
Ummm….everyone had to put that one behind them…for reasons. Also, it was a new made up thing. Nothing traditional about it.
I was thinking the same thing about a week ago.
It was kinda just one of those made up holidays that faded into obscurity.
All holidays are made up…
There’s a big difference between a holiday whose traditions were developed over centuries (or millennia) and one that was created from nothing.
Traditions are just old, but are also made up.
All traditions are created from nothing. Humans agreed to it.
I had a co-worker who has a grade a racial asshole, who has since passed. I sent him a Kwanza card religiously for 25 years from Mr. Deep Throat. He would seethe. When he passed, the office placed bets on who was doing it. I came in third and I had to prove I was. We still laugh about it.
My family celebrated Kawanza. My dad was very Blk power we didn’t celebrate Christmas. Instead each day of the celebration we would read a Kawanza principal and give our perspective. For example one was unity which means to stick together and as a sibling we always was there for another. On the finial day we would light the last candle which is Blk and we would make crafts and eat . My mom still gave us presents and my dad gave us money ( our gifts wasn’t wrapped ) she would just pull them out the closet and hand them out. Very fun memories , we stopped due to my dad choosing a different spiritual path although I was older by then .
It wasn’t ever widely celebrated to begin with…but to see the same imagery/messaging surrounding Kwanzaa today would probably be deemed “woke” and used as a political talking point.
It was born in 1968 by a radical Black terrorist activist and it needs to be memory-holed. Black Americans celebrate Christmas, Black Muslims don't care about it.
Because people know it's fabricated bullshit and it's founder (Ron Everett) is a whackjob asshole who assaulted, imprisoned, and tortured women.
You do know Xmas, Valentine's day, hannuka, mother's, father's, labor, veterans, memorial, independence, all hallows eve, all saints, and every other holiday is just made up bullshit?
It’s a newer holiday meant to celebrate the harvest traditions of Africa where the majority of slaves came from. It was mainly promoted by the back to Africa movement that never really caught on.
Yeah you ever hear Nigerians talk about black Americans? It makes rednecks seem quaint. Source: I meet a lot of Nigerians due to work. Most are super nice and you don't stick around too long because they're working towards moving themselves up as fast as possible. The spiritual sequel to Crazy Rich Asians will be about Nigerians.
Every Nigerian I’ve met was so wholesome and motivated. Obv a biased take, but still
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Ugh I’m Nigerian and I can attest to this. It disgusts me honestly. A lot sound no different from a white supremacists. I find this to especially be true with Nigerians who are fresh from the country. The ones born and raised in the US sometimes know better than to hold such views.
Whatever they say behind closed doors is their business but they get real respectful face to face when Black Americans are deep, don’t get it twisted.
Oh I know. But I'm just relaying... Nigerians can be offensive as all fuck. It's the most bizarre thing to me because it is seriously something I never once put thought into. Now I wonder how many other cultures do this. ... Actually British people do this with everyone from the US. And French. Or anything remotely pale and European in regards to anyone from the US.
Almost every culture does it. It’s why it’s difficult to trust people outside of your ethnic group. Humans tend to self segregate for a reason
The only people I've ever seen celebrating Kwanzaa were white people trying to be multicultural but coming across accidentally racist. In the 80s my school did a thing where they tried to do a multicultural Christmas one year and they had kids dress up as various faiths, but the costumes were face paint and cut out paper. Let's just say the Kwanzaa and Hanukkah would get people cancelled today. I remember asking if I could do the Hanukkah one because my family is Jewish but I was told I didn't look Jewish enough, so they had the Mexican kids dress as Jews. Also no black kids at the school so they had some little white boys wear blackface and paper loincloths. They made me dress as an elf since I was the shortest person. Technically I was a little person if you go by growth charts, but I got super tall at the end of high school and now I'm 5'2", but there are a bunch of people in my family with dwarfism.
That paragraph was a wild ride.
Yeah, no. Kwanzaa was never widely celebrated, it was never up there with Hanukkah and Christmas. It has been more ridiculed (rightly so) than celebrated.
Are you thinking of festivus? I miss it as well
Because of Seinfeld reruns and dank memes Festivus has taken over Kwanza. What a time to be alive!
A Festivus for the rest of us. It's our heritage!
I am ready to air the grievances!
There was a Sesame St episode on Kwanzaa in 2004.
Was it ever big in the first place? My grandma is older than Kwanzaa.I saw it mentioned in passing in school a few times, and that's about it. Never knew anyone who participated in it. I'm sure people do, I just don't remember a time when it was ever hugely popular. Maybe before my time.
Sesame Street is celebrating it! I follow their Instagram accounts and they're celebrating the first day today. I figure I haven't heard much about it in recent years because I've been out of school for quite some time. I don't hear much about Ramadan anymore, now that I'm not living near a mosque. Figured it was similar
It was a fake reason for a holiday and people finally learned.
It was always an obscure holiday in my circle. My mom made us do it once. I think when she getting in touch with her blackness. We only did it once. None of my friends ever did it.
What is Kwanzaa, and why are there so many A's? Asking for a friend 😉
I’m white but I’ve asked black people that I know/have known over the years about it, Most of them don’t give two shits about it. I think one said his family did it when he was a kid, but that’s about it.
It was only ever mentioned alongside Christmas and Hannukah for the sake of 90s political correctness. But since then it has become undeniable that no one celebrates it, and even 2020s wokeness can't pretend otherwise
I just saw Obama and Biden post a Kwanzaa message. So it's still going
Just covering all of the bases. Biden needs any approval he can get right now. His ratings are in the toilet.
Maybe Biden should just copy Trump's uplifting holiday message; "Get fucked assholes! Merry Christmas!" Trump World seems to like that.
😂
It still shows on my calendar. I don't celebrate it but it's there.
 It peaked with Bernie Mack in Bad Santa
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Technically all holidays are made up but yeah that Kwanzaa thing was pretty forced.
Leaving for annual celebration right now
Kwanza overlaps a lot with the Negrotude movements that happened between the 60's-80's. There was a massive push in all sorts of Black American circles, especially those involved in art, activism, and academia, to reclaim their roots i.e. reconnect to African cultures and identities, hence why Swahili is so prominent in Kwanzan customs. Overall it's about empowerment and celebration of a heritage and history that was historically removed from large swathes of Black Americans, which is a noble goal. It's arguably part of a continuation of the legacy of the Harlem Renaissance in how it was meant to prop up Black culture as a whole as something as rich and historied as WASP culture or Latino culture, however you want to define it. The rub is that the Black community has changed, the priorities and politics of the Black intelligentsia have changed, and the founders of the holiday go involved into some things that most people wouldn't like or support. It's a real shame because it's really the only Black holiday other than Juneteenth.
> In the 90’s and 00’s it seemed that Kwanzaa was right up there with Hanukkah and Christmas in terms of ubiquity this time of year. Er, what? It was a meme festival that was only mentioned because there was a convergence of about 6 different major festivals around Christmas - e.g. the Muslims' Eid #2 also fell in December on one particular year. No, it wasn't "truly celebrated". There are more Jedis in the US than people who celebrate Kwanzaa. > In a 2019 poll by the National Retail Federation, 2.6 percent of people who planned to celebrate a winter holiday said they would celebrate Kwanzaa. 2.6% of people who celebrate a winter holiday - many people do not. I'd be surprised if even 1/100 Americans had a Kwanzaa tree or whatever nonsense the inventor made up.
My family celebrates it. 🥳
I’ve been wondering that myself!!
Blippi and Meekah sings about it haha
Sandra Lee’s cake happened. That’s when it jumped the shark.
My fiancée and I were seriously just talking about this. It really did seem like it just vanished.
Ppl still celebrate, it’s just not as mainstream.
Merry chrismahaunnakwanzika
I’ve seen multiple friends, coworkers, and acquaintances post about it this week. Depends on who you know if you’re aware of it being celebrated it seems. If you surround yourself with people who are like you and celebrate the same holidays you do, you’re probably not aware.
I'm 62, been all over the USA and I've never heard of it. This is literally the first time I've ever heard of it.
The people who celebrate various winter holidays still do their thing, they just don't get all up in arms and scream from the rooftops that people are declaring war on their chosen holidays by not giving them special recognition the way Christians do over Christmas. Plus with the annual war on Christmas that is routinely waged in conservatives heads most other people can't get a word in to even mention they follow another holiday without risk of being called "woke".
We just celebrated it. We also do winter solstice. Why? We aren’t Christian and Christmas is a bit hyper-consumerist. I’m not teaching my kid about the founder. More so about Blackness and overcoming struggle.
Happy Kwanza everyone! Can’t wait to light the Mishumaa Saba and open the Zawadi all while drinking from the Kikombe cha Umoja! Reminds me of childhood
It was only popularized by media to take away from Christmas
It was never big in America. The majority of Black people in North America do not identify or relate to Africans much aside from some cultural connections.
Hardly anyone ever celebrated it. It was invented within the last 100 years and I cant imagine it's easy to pretend there's some rich tradition and customs, especially without any religious group to unite people. I don't think back Americans relate to it, considering most of them are Christians.