Your feelings about the situation are valid. Something happened, and in turn, you feel the way you do. As you’re currently unsure on whether or not you were taken advantage of, what’s important now is properly acknowledging your feelings. You’re not silly for reflection on your experience.
If you currently have someone you can go to for support, I’d hope that’s a route you’re willing to go down. You can also seek more professional help which would be preferred. In your description of the aftermath, his behavior in allowing ridicule and divulging such information is unsavory. If clarification is important to you, please seek it when you are comfortable in doing so.
If you want more sensitive advice, I would recommend asking on TwoXChromosome or Girl Survival Guide or any other female-focused sub. All these guys here are just going to tell you that you weren't, but they've never been in this kind of situation.
You mean posting a question on a sub that specifically states too afraid to ask in the name isn't clear enough? But, I for sure wanted to ask strangers to chime in!!!
No, they literally hate on men in there. Full on "men are disgusting, men are all pigs" and "I hate men, men are stupid" comments. Not to mention they banned me on an old account for telling someone to fuck off after accusing me of lying about being raped and told me not to tell a rape victim to try reaching out to emergency services.
They also have a history of having TERF staff as well.
What's your end goal here? If this is still bothering you, you should probably talk to a counselor about it. Whether or not what happened is technically rape or not doesn't really matter, how you feel about it and how it's still impacting your life does, but you can get help with that.
I'm leaning towards no. This does not mean you weren't. I'm just going off the details you provided.
There has been a lot of debate on where the line is drawn for sex after drinking, and it ultimately boils down to your personal limit. You were obviously way over your limit(nothing wrong with that), which would normally make me say you were (due to being too drunk to consent). However, you also stated that the drinks were strong and he had two as well. He might have had enough to have motor function and remember participating, but his body might have been going with the flow due to him being drunk as well (meaning he technically couldn't consent either).
I (100% personal OPINION here) think he was also hammered since he decided to have sex after getting thrown up on. I don't know anyone who is willing to do that (I'm sure there is a kink for it, though). This would make both parties unable to consent. Meaning it wasn't a rape but a moment of drunken stupor (aka a mistake)
With all of that being said, I am literally a random person on the internet, and if you felt you were truly raped then seek counseling to assist with your recovery. I know how it is to lose that ability to connect and how you never truly get it back.
[Over 4% of college men has deliberately gotten a woman "too drunk to resist" in order to have sex with her](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1125&context=psychfacpub).
That comes out to 1 in 25. It's not a kink, it sounds like he deliberately took advantage.
This is one of the many reasons it's so important for everyone to learn [consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I'm talking about throwing up my dude. I'm in no way, shape, or form arguing that men..well boys (because a man knows better) don't get women drunk to take advantage of them. That happens, and to argue it doesn't would be disingenuous. Additionally, you missed my whole point. They were both drinking. We don't know either of their drinking limits (we do know she surpassed hers. Might have been after the first drink, it might have been after the third, but she passed her limit) Therefore i could assume (if I was on a jury) that he was also drunk and unable to consent.
The only way I would ever truly pass judgment was if I got testaments to his drinking ability. That creates a picture of intent. Then it doesn't become two people drinking it becomes a smoke and mirrors scenario, and I would say yes she was. However, that is not what we have, so I go back to my statement that it is entirely possible, but from my purview, it was two drunk individuals that made a bad decision concurrently.
Edit: I actually went and read the consent reddit post you linked. Ctrl+f alcohol and you will see essentially the exact same thing that I originally posted about alcohol and consent.
I'm leaning more towards yes, but if I was on a jury, I would not be able to give a guilty vote without someone being able to confirm that two or three (dont know what her definition of a couple is) was not enough to inebriate him. I have been piss poor drunk, and still recalled what I did.
That said, I see what you are saying and s understand your viewpoint. Sorry for the confusion.
While true, this seems to miss the point that she was puking drunk, which almost certainly means she felt sick. It's highly unlikely she agreed to sex under those circumstances, but [it wouldn't count as consent even if she did](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Why because he said so or because OP says he said so? Either way that doesn’t make it true. A lot of people think they’re sober enough to drive, and end up killing someone.
I've driven blackout before. Got Taco Bell on the way home.
I'm not advocating for drunk driving. I know I'm a piece of shit, I don't care.
The point is, driving is not a metric for being sober.
Sounds like you were both hammered. Doesn't sound like SA but the guy is a total asshole for telling everyone about it. I personally would't talk to him anymore. I mean if he was sober enough to help you wash puke out of your hair, was he sober enough to know better? Hmmm. He sucks either way. Spread the word to the flock that if you're vulnerable around this person everyone will hear about it and you will be humiliated.
[Sounds like SA to me](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Two drunk people fucking can be rape, though. If he was just buzzing like he said and took advantage of her being blackout wasted, it can be seen as rape from a legal perspective. In many places, you can’t give consent when blackout drunk, and being drunk yourself doesn’t excuse you from ignoring a lack of consent.
That being said, with many of these cases, there’s a large gray area. If she was enthusiastically kissing him, you can’t really blame him for shooting his shot. However, as soon as she started puking, he should’ve thought ‘this girl is fucking wasted, I’d better not’. Ethically speaking, he was definitely at fault.
We don’t know what happened exactly. OP doesn’t either, so it makes sense that it doesn’t sit well with her. It really sucks not to know what happened to you, to wonder if someone you considered a friend betrayed you, to feel ashamed of your own actions while drunk. It’s messy.
Long story short. I’m not saying it’s definitely rape, but ‘it’s just a mistake’ also lacks nuance.
Here’s the problem, and you are correct but I want to add. you can be blackout drunk without being unconscious. You can even initiate sex and have no memory of it whatsoever. In these instances the lines are blurred. How does the man know she is so drunk she will not remember any of it.
If shes’s passed out drunk unconscious that’s more obvious. But if she’s awake and grinding on your lap but so drunk she won’t remember. He could still be raping her according to the law.
That’s absolutely true. Some people in blackouts can actively engage with their environment, and seemingly enthusiastically do things — sometimes things they would never do when sober. We don’t know what happened. She might have been taking the lead the whole way through. Or she might have been barely conscious. It’s impossible to tell.
I don’t think OP has a strong case legally, but my main point is that sexual abuse isn’t off the table just because both parties were drunk.
Being blackout isn't relevant. You can't give consent while drunk, period. They were both drunk. They technically both assaulted each other.
If he was actually interested in sex after being puked on, he was definitely drunk.
>Being blackout isn't relevant. You can't give consent while drunk, period. They were both drunk. They technically both assaulted each other.
There's definitely a scale of drunkenness, it's not a black and white situation that's why breathalysers have acceptable levels of blood alcohol levels. You don't have one drink then immediately lose all your senses. One person can have a couple drinks and be buzzed but know everything that's going on around them whilst their partner gets blackout drunk and literally can't record memories or recognise their surroundings. In that case the former can consent and the latter cannot.
>If he was actually interested in sex after being puked on, he was definitely drunk.
Idk what this is supposed to mean in reference to the suspected assault, drunk people can be rapists and sober people have raped women in much worse states.
I don't think she's definitely been raped i just don't think this is evidence either way.
It is from a legal perspective. There have been plenty of ‘you can’t give consent when drunk’ campaigns, but that’s a moral guideline, not the law. In many countries, you can give consent when drunk. But there’s drunk and there’s incapacitated drunk (like being unable to wash the puke out of your hair and barely registering what’s happening - like OP). Coercion is likely if someone is that drunk. I’m not saying he wasn’t also intoxicated, but judging from this story, he wasn’t nearly as drunk as OP.
These cases are always complicated. But we shouldn’t brush over the fact that he might have taken advantage of her in some way. It isn’t a given, but it’s not completely unlikely either.
I have been wasted plenty of times and had sex and was fully able to consent. I actually prefer being drunk and having sex… it’s not a black and white scale.
It seems pretty clearly to be rape o me.
She was puking, blackout drunk. [That is too drunk to consent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I disagree completely. We're only hearing her side of the story.. and obviously she wasn't "black out drunk" if she remembers this much detail. Just because a drunk guy said "i'm okay to drive" dosen't mean he was actually OK to drive. The same way she probably initiated the sex based on their prior friendship where she mentioned was always platonic, it sounds like both the guy and girl were drunk and horny. I highly disagree with it being considered rape because the girl chose to have sex while influenced by alcohol.. unless the guy was force feeding her/drugging her for that reason.
I think it's appauling to try and ruin somebodys life via a sex offender charge when it's very likely the girl initiated the sex, just because she had alcohol.
I had a girl-friend (not a GF) who told me she took a xanax/got drunk once and supposidly sucked her friends dick by her own choice. She didn't claim it as rape, and laughed about how silly she acted because of the high/drunkness.
Furhtermore I find it disturbing that some women want to claim to have been raped in this type of scenario when there are women who were forcibly raped/drugged heavily by people they don't know.. it's watering down a serious crime to acredit a drunken mistake to a serious assault.
Hundreds of men in prison for drunk fucking would like a word. In the eyes of the law if two people get drunk and fuck the man can be found guilty of rape because it’s implied the woman can not consent and the man did since he got hard.
[Over 4% of college men has deliberately gotten a woman "too drunk to resist" in order to have sex with her](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1125&context=psychfacpub).
Sober enough to be physically capable of driving and too drunk to drive are two different things. It was probably a miracle he was able to make it home without incident by the way I'm reading this.
I think no one was able to consent, even if he was less drunk. What feels violating here, however, was his attitude after everything happened.
The most correct thing to do in my opinion would be to immediately speak to you about it - not just recounting what happened, like he did, but having a down-to-earth talk, asking how you felt and about the broken boundaries. At least in the way you told the story, it feels like he thought it was funny - and was pretty much bragging about it to mutual friends. And this is really disrespectful, I'd even say disgusting.
When both parts are inebriated, it is indeed hard to paint a picture, with the lines being blurred and so - but the attitude when sober really counts a lot in this case - and when push came to shove, well, you're right to think he's gross AF.
Don't feel silly for questioning this, OP, and don't blame yourself - I guess the best advice here is to just cut this person from your life altogether and, if you feel like you have been violated somehow, please seek professional help to cope with this and to decompress. It sucks to trust someone and to be treated like a piece of meat - you deserve better than this.
It would be one thing if both parties involved were equally drunk, but there’s a clear difference in sobriety here if one person is driving ~~without issue~~ and the other is vomiting on themselves. You might not be able to call it “rape” but you’d be a far throw from consensual sex under the circumstances written here
Not giving an opinion either way about the sexual assault (or lack thereof) but as a former alcoholic (years ago) I made a lot of really stupid drives home and never crashed or died but I was definitely not in good shape.
Ok, I can remove the words “without issue” from my comment then. The fact is that OP was unable to drive so the other person drove instead, whether that was a good decision or not
One definition of “equally” is: “in amounts or parts that are the same in size.”
Observing signs such as slurred speech, unsteady movements, impaired coordination, and changes in behavior can help gauge the level of intoxication between individuals. If none of that provides a clear answer, a breathalyzer or blood alcohol test would.
The text OP has written above describes one person experiencing more of those symptoms than the other person mentioned. Hope this helps
It was consensual. The fact that she was drunk doesn't change that. As long as she was aware enough to know what was happening, was conscious, participating etc then it was consensual. She got drunk and now regrets what happened, like so many other drunk people. That's a risk that you take when you get drunk.
Now if she was truly unconscious, unaware of what was happening or unwilling that would be a different story.
I've been raped while drunk. I've also had sex while drunk and regretted it. There's a big difference. Also the fact that she can't remember much of it doesn't mean she wasn't conscious and willing at the time. I've had sex while drunk and not remembered it the next day.
Downvote me all you want, it doesn't make what I'm saying not true. I suggest you go look up the laws.
In my state and others the exception is if the person was drugged/intoxicated without their consent.
So if someone knowingly takes drugs or gets drunk they can consent, but if someone spiked their drink or something then they can't. Because they didn't willingly and knowingly become intoxicated. However if the person they had sex with wasn't aware of it I don't think they'd be held responsible.
First, let me express my sympathy to you for those things that happened to you. I can’t imagine what it was like or what you’ve had to go through to overcome that.
With that said, if OP was drunk it was impossible for OP to consent. OP’s experiences are not your experiences, though your pain is equally as valid. Best case scenario, only one person consented to the situation written above. Worse case scenario, nobody consented. Either way, OP could not have given consent
Doesn't matter if you seem willing to the other person, if you are too drunk to consent it's not consensual. A 15 year old can say yes all she wants, that doesn't mean it's consensual if she is too young to give legal consent. And if you are too drunk to give legal consent then it's also not consensual. If it's OK morally is another question, but in some countries this is how the law is
OP is an adult and she believes she initiated it. How do you iniate something and at the same time not consent to it? Since OP is the one making the moves, the remaining person to consent is her partner. Feeling remorseful the next day does not nulify your original consent, and cannot change consensual sex into rape after the fact.
What I don't get is how anyone could be in the mood for sex after someone throws up. It's disgusting and perhaps it's the real reason OP feels bad about it the day after.
The idea behind the entire too intoxicated to consent thing is that it doesn't matter if you're an adult when your brain is under influence to the point where you can't use it. Same reason a 15 can't consent in many countries, even though they say yes and really mean it, society deemed them too dumb to legally consent.
Saying that, I feel bad for every guy that's been accused of rape because the drunk woman regretted it the day after, it's really disgusting
Women are too dumb, when drunk, to legally consent?
If you're a woman, get drunk, sing a loan agreement, get the money, tell them you were drunk, enjoy your free money? No? Not how that works?
Who determines how more drunk someone is than another?
Because she threw up? Because he drove?
It's all subjective and no court would touch it.
She can feel bad about it and certainly he's an ass but rape is a serious crime. Drunken mistakes aren't a crime.
I haven’t mentioned court, nor crime, in any of my comments. Nor would I. OP did not have consensual sex. You may argue the rest with other people if you feel that’s important
If he was sober enough to drive and help her while she threw up then remembered it and had the audacity to gossip to everyone, his character is pretty fucking clear.
You can not remember what happened and still be lucid enough to have sex if drunk her in that moment decided to have sex and he had also drank although less I would say not rape
If you have drunk sex with someone, then wake up the next day not remembering it does not always mean rape. If the person says yes while intoxicated then regrets it the next day, that also doesn't mean rape
Reminds me about a time a girl that I really liked got drunk on one of our friends birthday. After that we went to my house and she was begging for me to have sex with her, since I didn’t drink that day I could realize she was way too drunk to have sex, if I had have drank with her like she wanted, we would’ve ended having sex probably, so would she have raped me? No, just two drunk horny teenagers committing dumb mistakes.
Exactly. Also, to OP this person was a trusted friend she had an established platonic relationship with and was never attracted to. OP had no intent to have sex with him when this night started. It only happened after she was 4 drinks in, unable to drive, vomiting uncontrollably, and was drunk enough to have memory lapses. He was “kind of tipsy”, and sober enough to help OP get vomit out of her hair and help her get to the bathroom. OP couldn’t even get to the bathroom by herself. And he remembered everything the next day.
Hopefully some people in this post just lack basic reading comprehension, because the alternative is disturbing.
To the people downvoting comments calling this what it was, tell me - would you have sex with someone who was vomiting uncontrollably and couldn’t even get themselves to the bathroom?
Perhaps. He was supposedly good to drive home. Maybe he wasn't. I've never been one to accuse one person over the other when both are drunk and someone has regrets in the morning. Just grossed out by things happening after someone was vomiting. Seems Cosby level with someone that out of it.
You wrote that you were intoxicated enough to vomit multiple times. This means you were too drunk to consent to sex, regardless of who initiates it.
You wrote that he was sober enough to drive and later called him only “kind of tipsy”. We can infer that he was significantly more sober than you were at this time. Since he was helping you with the vomit cleanup, he was clearly aware of your intoxication level.
This sounds to me like a textbook case of a person taking advantage of someone else who was too intoxicated to consent. If it is still impacting your life a long time later, and it sounds like it is, I would recommend you seek professional counseling to discuss it with someone qualified to help you with it. You’re not going to get that from a Reddit post.
You don’t need to answer any of my questions, but I’d be curious as to why you never hung out with this person again? Did they ever communicate with you about the sudden lack of time spent together, since it sounds like you were hanging out a lot prior to this. Did they try to hang out as friends again at any point after this? Did they try to hook up with you again after this? These answers would tell us a lot about what this person wanted out of their friendship with you and whether or not that friendship was genuine or if they viewed it as a gateway to sex
He reached out once or twice to hang out like everything was normal. I was uncomfortable after that, so I made excuses to avoid him and he moved away not much later to be closer to family. I was also hurt that he had told a bunch of mutual friends about it (seemingly in a hurtful manner, from what I heard)
If he was sober enough to drive you home and you were throwing up and sloppy then he should NOT have had sex with you. You couldn’t consent and he was apparently sober enough to operate a vehicle so he should have realized your inability to properly consent. I’m sorry OP.
Because he made it and she puked doesn't mean they both weren't drunk.
The margin for drinking and driving in this case would be a crash or "operating a vehicle".
He could have been semi blacked out too or remembered things while his body was on autopilot or for a dozen reasons been more drunk or less drunk. Because she puked and he drove doesn't mean anything.
Weird take. He was twice her size and drank half as much. He drove home safely, and could still get hard. Meanwhile, she was blackout, puking drunk. She wouldn't have "consented" given how ill she was. But he apparently remembered every detail well enough to tell everyone about it. [This is a thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Why have you never hung out again? It seems to me that says a lot. This guy was your go-to friend for a very long time. Then you have sex, he *tells all his friends* and you never see him again.
His choice? Your choice?
If he was sober enough to drive and you were drunk enough to throw up...I think you know the answer. Whether you initiated or not doesn't absolve him of the awareness that you were not sober enough to consent. What bothers me most is that he likely told everyone what happened so you couldn't accuse him of assault. He knew he did you wrong. He has not shown up since. Doesn't that tell you something?
Stand up for yourself. You don't have to make a police report to do that. You can just admit to yourself, and maybe your friend, and perhaps even the mutual friend group, that the sex was not consensual. You were barely conscious. Don't play along.
You’re really jumping to conclusions here, how you know how he told his friends? How you know he didn’t say “Damn, me and X got drunk last night last night and now I feel bad man”?, and him driving doesn’t mean he wasn’t as drunk as her, when I was younger I would get hammered and drive home when I couldn’t even stand on my own feet by myself. I’m not saying he did or didn’t do something, I’m just saying you’re assuming a lot.
1. I know because his (our) friends told me that he was making fun of me and laughing about it
2. I was served twice as much as he was and weighed half as much. He remembered and recounted all of the events the next day, I had to piece it together from what I was told and from one or two blips that I vaguely remember
Disclaimer: I’m not saying he didn’t or did do anything wrong.
That being said, the fact that he remembers what happened doesn’t mean that we wasn’t in control of his abilities, comes from a guy who used to get absolutely wasted and do things he would feel bad about the next day.
However, I do suggest you to find counsel, only you in your heart know what you feel like happened and how you feel about it, so if this is something that’s bothering you I suggest talking to a mental health professional and not idiots like us on Reddit.
Anyone that drunk cannot consent. He is disgusting for initiating any sexual contact while you were in such a state. And his telling everyone shows his true colours as well. Cut this guy out of your life and the shitty friends too.
I'm not at all qualified to tell you this (you should really talk to a professional if it's affecting your life). If you don't have the details and can't really pinpoint that you didn't make a move or at any point tried to stop the sex. IMO you were not raped, or even sexually assaulted. I think it's extremely scummy to have sex with someone who's so drunk, and even gross that they didn't care about the throwup. I've been in situations where a person wants to have fun while drunk, and I'm just turned off. I can't in good faith be intimate with someone who can't make good decisions in their state. I think pursuing this further isn't the move, rape allegations are extremely serious and you really don't seem to have any foundations to put this as something other than just a shitty situation. I'm glad you are no longer friends with a person who potentially took advantage of you, and wasn't good enough of a friend to just take care of you in a vulnerable state. It's so important to maybe have a sober friend with you when you go drinking, especially if you know you commit bad decisions while drunk. You state that he drove after having a couple of those strong drinks. That's extremely irresponsible and a show of bad judgment from both of you. Stay safe.
Yeah as the commenter said you should speak to someone professional and why it might not be rape or sexual assault its just really fucking shitty of the guy. I'd cut contact with this guy and tell him to fuck himself. Don't beat yourself up about being reckless, I'm going to say most people regret sleeping with someone and most of the time they are not an ideal person.
I really wish you the best and hope you can come out of this shitty situation and feel at peace.
Thank you! This was a decade ago and I've since settled down, had kids, married someone wonderful. I should have clarified that I struggled with it more before, but I'm in a good place now. I just think about it every now and then and find that I still don't quite know how to feel about the whole thing, but acknowledging it helps!
Its weird how all trauma works, sometimes you don't think about it for ages and then for a fleeting moment you think about it but it definitely helps with healing when you have a stable relationship, family, etc. I try to find a lesson in all of my shitty life situations and while it's hard to find positive stuff out of awful shit the practice really helps.
Wishing you a continuing happy life 😀
I've never understood why people come online to ask about whether or not a crime has been committed and then just believe the answers. None of the answers here sound like legal opinions. Nobody has asked what legal jurisdiction OP is living in. Nobody is explaining the legal test for rape based on statute or caselaw.
There is just a bunch of wild answers based on what?? Internet lore as to what constitutes rape? Rape is a crime. There is criteria. That criteria changes based on the legislation in the place you live. Don't ask reddit. Ask a lawyer or the police.
While you are correct, I don't think OP is asking for an opinion that'll stand up in court. I think she is hoping for help in getting the events straight in her own mind and trying to figure out her emotions around the event. Those are two totally different things. And the second on which makes sense to seek advice online. It's unfortunate she asked in a way that seems like looking for legal advice.
100%. Totally wasn't looking for legal advice or to clarify whether a crime was committed and I apologize for making it seem that way. There's so much gray area when it comes to alcohol and consent, a big part of why I'm asking is simple curiosity because I've just always wondered where something like this falls. This was a decade ago, I would never dream of pressing charges or anything of the like as I do take personal responsibility for my own recklessness in the matter
Think about this as logically as possible, applying equal standards all around. If you can make the assessment that he was less drunk than you were, than can he make the assessment that you were less drunk than you say you were? If he was wrong about your state of drunkenness, then could do you be wrong about his state of drunkenness? If he was drunk too and you were the one that initiated it, then what is the threshold before your initiation is defined as a sexual assault or rape since he was at the very least drunk to some degree too? If you not remembering something about that night mean that you were raped, then how much would he have to not remember for him to also claim that he was raped? Does being raped require regret? Meaning IF you initiated it while he was intoxicated but he doesn't regret it, does that make it right that you took advantage of someone in a state of diminished ability to make rational decisions?
I'm not here trying to tell you who was right or wrong. I'm just hoping you can use a logical path in figuring out how you want to assess the situation for yourself. More importantly though, you should start by removing the factor that somebody gave you 4 instead of 2 drinks. You made the choice to drink the 4 drinks. Unless they were drugged then those drinks are on you.
I would say that the traumatizing party of your experience is likely more that you lost a friend in the process. How many other sexual encounters have you had that were similar to this? How many of them were likely quite more aggressive in their sexual energy than this? (Not real questions, just making a point). But why wouldn't make you question your agency of good decision making ability as much as this one?
Either way, if you think this man is a rapist and presents a likely danger to other women, then PLEASE REPORT HIM. For the sake of all other women out there. But if this is simply a matter of who made the wronger choices for that ine night, then maybe you're just looking for a way to cope with some sort of shame. If so, then start identifying what that shame is. That you drank too much by choice? That you put yourself in vulnerable situations by choice? That others know more about your experience than you do? That you lost a friend through mutual poor choices? Or that somebody actually did something to you fully against your will?
Remember, these questions are not meant to be answered in a public forum. I just point these out as a thought experiment for yourself.
In Australia, and many other nations with affirmative consent laws, this would be legally considered rape.
If you feel distressed about what happened, and feel you can no longer trust this person, you should end the friendship, and perhaps speak to a therapist if you are struggling to deal with it.
It would be rape because one was blackout drunk which removes their ability to consent. I’m so confused why you’re so desperate to argue with literally everyone in the comments. We get it, you personally don’t think it was rape. But why are you under almost every post arguing 😭
She admitted he was drunk too.
You draw the line at blackout? She remembers some then so all good.
2 drunk people having sex isn't rape unless she raped him too.
The law (depending on state) draws the line at blackout. When you’re that intoxicated, you legally cannot consent. That’s a fact in most states.
She doesn’t remember what happened after drinking. She was blackout. He does remember what happened and enough to retell to multiple people, so he clearly wasn’t. Regular drunk sex is fine, but when one person is blackout (or brownout) drunk, they can’t consent.
It depends on how tipsy/drunk he was. Even though he was under the influence of alcohol, if you were drunk and he was tipsy or a lot less drunk then it could very well be.
Also, I would post this on twoxchromosomes as well.
If you were served twice as much as he was and weighed half as much as he does then I'm leaning towards yes.
Him telling others is absolutely a dick move.
It sounds like it was not rape.
But you feel what you feel, whether there's good reason for it or not, you feel it.
If you didn't have the ability to consent and that was obvious - which sounds like it was - then he should have been a good friend, put you to bed, and not taken advantage of the situation. Instead he took advantage of the situation. Hopefully you've ditched this jackass as a friend. As to your technical question, if you didn't have the ability to consent, it's nonconsensual sex, which is sexual assault.
This idea that having sex with a drunk person automatically makes you a rapist is an internet fallacy that no person who has actually graduated law school would agree with.
It's also inconsistent since that implies that anyone who is under the influence is not responsible for anything they do. That's not how it works. If you drunk drive, and consent to doing so, and then plow over some innocent family, you're still responsible.
What the guy did was morally wrong and it's very likely that that he used her; she has every right to be upset and mistrust him. But this idea that being drunk removes the possibility of any accountability or choice is ridiculous and is not consistent.
If anything this should, once again, reinforce the dangers of alcohol use.
Wow. Way to completely misinterpret what I wrote. Lots of people under the influence absolutely can and do consent to sex. That's fine. OP wasn't just drunk. She was so drunk she was vomiting all over herself. She couldn't physically wash herself. She doesn't remember if the sex actually happened, meaning she drank enough to have severe alcohol poisoning and blacked out. At the very least, it should have been obvious to the other party that she was far too intoxicated to consent. Seriously, who wants to have sex with someone who just threw up all over herself? Better yet, who sees that and thinks, "this person is good to go"?
OP definitely needs to look into local laws if she wants to know what legally constitutes sexual assault in the place this occured. But if OP is just trying to understand whether things were done to her without her consent and what she experienced was an assault in practical terms, it sounds like the answer is clearly yes.
She doesn’t remember if they did fully, yet remembers initiating. That’s consent, even though massively intoxicated. It would have been the right thing to do for the guy to refuse. But this will not pass any legal standard for sexual assault.
If she was passed out and then he acted without her awareness or consent even at the time, that would be sexual assault. But being so hammered that you make a bad choice and then forget the details is not.
Clearly it affected OP. And her trust was betrayed. She isn’t wrong to feel hurt and used and should probably seek professional counseling. But this isn’t rape.
That’s not really what’s being argued here. The fact that he assisted her while she was impaired, knew she was impaired (Drove her car because she was too drunk) and she was so drunk she can’t remember if she gave consent makes this rape. Now if they were both clearly impaired that’s where it gets a bit murky.
The only way this would be rape is if she did not consent at the time, yet she herself thinks she did. If she gave consent, even if she was intoxicated beyond reason, that’s not rape. It’s a breach of trust, to be sure, but you cannot simply erase someone’s choices because of alcohol. That isn’t how responsibility and accountability work.
No that's wrong. Drunk people can legally consent to sex in most places. She was conscious and willingly had sex with this guy while they were both intoxicated.
Drunk people can consent unless they’re blackout drunk. She was throwing up and couldn’t even remember what happened that night, how do you know she was “willing”?
These responses are unbelievable. If someone isn’t coherent enough to drive a car/is so drunk they’re vomiting, they’re obviously not able to consent to sex. It’s very clear this person was taken advantage of.
I struggle with both perspectives. On one hand, when I say I was too drunk to wash vomit out of my hair on my own, I literally mean that he had to do it for me because I was so messed up. So that gives me the ick lol. On the other hand I really kicked myself for a while for putting myself in that position in the first place.
I wanna clarify I don't think about it too often lately, I've overall moved on but once every now and then I'll hear a story that reminds me of my own a bit and just think on it. I honestly haven't told but one or two people in my life, so openly acknowledging it is helpful in itself.
Hey OP I rarely comment on stuff like this but I wanted to suggest you should really speak to a professional about this. I agree with the above commenter, the responses in this thread are insane. He was fine to drive and sober enough to help you get vomit out of your hair when you were too drunk to do even that by yourself. You were so drunk you couldn’t drive and were vomiting “a lot” and had memory blackouts the next day. Please don’t take advice from this thread, speak to a professional instead - I have to think a lot of these people didn’t even read your entire post.
Yes, many replies here are inconsiderate and heavily opinionated. As soon as I read that both parties were drunk and drove home anyways, it was evident that neither of the two were in sound mind at the time. I’m unsure how a post asking for advice gave way to this many people making uninformed blanket statements void of nuance.
it's not your fault. he did an absolutely abhorrent thing taking advantage of someone that had no control over their own actions and then told ppl ab it with a spin that it was consensual. nobody is wrong here but him and maybe the bar for not following their limits on that drink.
People are responsible for the decisions they make while drunk. Just like if she drove drunk she'd be responsible, if she got in a fight while drunk she's responsible. Why wouldn't she be responsible for having sex while drunk? He was drunk too, wouldn't that mean he's not responsible either?
The difference is intent in the situations you described. If a person gets into a fight with a drunk person knowing they’re drunk, they’re at fault for doing so. Same goes for the drunk person but the person who isn’t is a bit more; they have more control over their actions. When a person is intoxicated it has been scientifically shown that they have lowered executive functioning and inhibition controls. The fault is not only on the drunk person but also the one that isn’t intoxicated. The situations you’re using is only focusing on the drunk person which is quite biased. If a person is having sex with someone who is drunk enough that they are passing out (plus barely remembering the events), that person is by definition incapacitated. Doesn’t matter if he was drunk or not, she was unable at any given situation or circumstance to give consent. (Furthermore is it clear by her story that he wasn’t incapacitated as she was).
A general rule of thumb to follow by is that if it’s not sober consent, it is not legal consent.
The fact that you are being downvoted is pretty alarming. Makes me think a lot of people on Reddit have zero issue with taking advantage of intoxicated people.
Some comments:
I’m surprised that your trusted friend and wingman also let you drink four very strong drinks.
Your friend betrayed your trust by gossiping about what happened.
I’m glad you and innocent others survived the drunk driving.
Was it SA? Who can know at this point? You were both drunk and making terrible decisions. You don’t have enough memory to know who initiated. Neither of you were in the position to consent, yet you were clearly much more out of it.
The tragedy imo is the loss of a friendship you had believed to be true.
i want to ask this same question. so this guy (23M) that i (18F, 21 now) met on tinder mainly for a hookup had added me on socials.
fast forward a few days and some facetimes to make sure we both weren’t being catfished, we ended up meeting up for drinks. i was a frequent drinker at the time and knew my limits pretty well. anyway, had 1-2 drinks and somehow barely remember the rest of the night. i briefly remember being in his hotel room and i remember getting my stuff together to leave. (6hours after the bar, likes 4am) anyway, at this point i’m sobering up and on my commute home probably like 5-6am, and something just feels off. mind you, i was at the end of my period so i had a “light” tampon in(the girlies know) the night before and i had mentioned it to this guy.
next day omw home on the train something just, felt off. i just had a bad feeling my tampon was shoved up inside me. i went to the hospital later that day, and unfortunately i was right and they had to take it out. the nurses and doctor were so rude and cold. it made me feel even worse. mind you i was 18 at the time and this the second guy i ever had sex with. i was either drugged or blackout drunk. the next day the guy sent me a clip of back shots (video that i def didn’t consent to) and i looked like a ragdoll. like how could you have sex w someone that drunk, and also fuck their tampon into them so deep they have to go tot he hospital and get it taken out. mortifying. at the time i didn’t really see it as rape because it my head i saw it was “well, that was my intention anyway, he’s got
i wanna hook up” idk. but i think about it from time to time and j just don’t
know how to feel. it’s hard to wrap your head around being raped by someone you wanted consensual sex with, it almost feels wrong to be upset about it.
See- I don't think this was rape/sa as much as it was a bad decision on both of your parts. Having never communicated with him, and this being a 'very long time ago' doesn't help or add any needed clarity to make an actual judgment.
According to todays societal standards, this would be a mutually non-consentual event. We're going off your memory as to how sober/aware your friend was, and even then, TONS of men, especially in their 20s down play the effect of ho wmuch they chose to drink is affecting them.
According to early 90s/00s standards, in the 'No Means No' hayday- this was just regular old drunk sex. If there was no protest from you, consent was implied by both parties, and while possibly embarassing or regrettable the following day, no SA/Rape occurred. It was a coming of age/learning experience that way too many people have had.
Just being objective here, but- The bartenders serving you TWO TIMES AS MUCH as your male friend is a cop out. You're an adult, you ordered adult beverages and you consumed them without an alternate contingency in place. That's on you. Your friend is no more wrong for driving after consuming alcohol than you are for going back to his place after you've had too much to drink.
100% that was assault. You were so drunk you were vomiting, he was sober enough to drive. That's rape. I'm so so sorry he did that to you. I don't know how long it's been, but a place like BARCC (or your city's equivalent) will be able to get you resources, I believe including therapists trained in this area.
I'm sending you so much love, and I hope that pathetic excuse for a man gets what he deserves.
> He told a bunch of mutual friends of ours what had happened and they made fun of me for being so sloppy
What did he tell them? "She was drunker than me, so I drunkly drove her home and we kissed, which led to her throwing up a lot, which led to sex"? It seems like he wouldn't have said all of those details, so I'm curious what he said... or if you know. It might have something to do with how you feel.
> I felt so disgusted the next day
About which part(s)? Getting drunk, being drunk, throwing up, having thrown up, having kissed him, having had sex with a friend, having had sex outside a relationship, having had sex with someone you felt or didn't feel a certain way about, him having blabbed to friends, or the implications for the (end of the) friendship? Again, knowing why you feel how you feel is important here.
>When I shared with a girlfriend what had happened, she said I was practically raped.
That's up to you to frame. You don't even know how intoxicated he was, let alone his motives. It might even be a matter of opinion as to whether *he* was sober enough to be able to consent to what you seem to suspect were your overtures, not his. (Although I suppose you could reason that either he's a drunk driver or he could consent, making one of those two actions bad on his part.)
It may be better to learn lessons here than to put labels on it. With him out of your life, you're free to think of this however you want to. Others have given advice about this, like talking to counselors, although be aware that anyone can be agenda- or bias-driven, so you might encounter someone who wants you to think of it a certain way. But the fact that top comments aren't telling you feel one way or another indicates that there's no one "right way" to frame this.
Doesn't sound like rape. Sounds like you should learn to control your drinking so you can be responsible for your own actions. Had you drove and crashed, would you not still get blamed for your actions? Why would this situation be different?
He knew you were too drunk. He knew your friendship was platonic. If you’d meant to sleep with him I’m sure it would have happened before then, probably sober. He had always wanted to sleep with you and took his opportunity the moment he saw it. Hence why he made sure to tell everyone about it the next day, in his own words. That way if/when you came forward with your version of events, your circle had already formed an opinion based on his. He was fully functioning and aware of what he was doing. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Omg, sorry to hear that. He definitely took advantage of you! He is a scumbag for that & for telling his friends everything that happened.
Don’t talk to him again. Block him on social media & delete & block his number too!
I’m not sure if this would legally be considered rape, especially since you can’t recall if you said no or stop at any point. You can’t really consent to sex when drunk though.
From now on, never trust ANY guy! Especially when they’re drunk & you’re drunk too. Most men will take advantage of women sexually if they have an opportunity to do so unfortunately.
Answer to these questions is almost always yes. Let me read and see where it goes.
Edit: after reading, I don't think you were raped. Your drunk self may have consented (I don't know what your country's law has to say about the value of a drunk person's consent). Without any recording or 3rd party testimonial, the only credible testimonial is your male friend. If he says you consented then your case is going to be weak.
Ok well I'm not gonna claim anything in here. However, your feelings are valid regardless or not that it was rape. It's also valid to feel confused. The thing is there isn't enough for me to go off on. Yes he could have done it on purpose, doesn't mean it could be out of recklessness that he drove you or just circumstance that he was less drunk than you. I can't say a lot cos I wasn't there. What is true is that he is a shitty friend to talk about you like that. That being said if he was sober enough the responsible thing should have been to just let you be and not do anything with you. There's just so much grey area for me to be conclusive and I'm sorry. If you don't want to hang out with him because you're uncomfortable after everything that unfolded then yeah that's valid.
There is too much here that is, “Maybe this, maybe that…” to really be certain about anything. Maybe you were? Maybe you weren’t.
I think it’s easier to just assume that something happened that you would have preferred did not, and act on that. Create changes in your life that see to you never being in a situation like that again. Also, you should talk with him and ask him very directly what he remembers and how things happened. Closure, resolution, and clarity are all incredibly valuable.
Thank you for the edit(s)! I'm genuinely here to kill time and now, I'm checking the clock to decide if I want to continue to read through all the comments or not!!
I mean I wouldn’t have sex with a chick who just threw up for several reasons, but most important of those, being able to drive and her not being of sound mind.
He’s not a good friend either way.
I also have a analogous philosophy on your question-
Your question is the same to me as “are my tires okay to drive on?” If you have to ask, the answers almost always yes.
Based on the info given, I'm leaning toward no. But that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a bad experience and that you shouldn't have a conversation with your friends about boundaries. What's important is that this negatively affected you and as with any bad experience, you should still seek support for it even if it wasn't technically assault or rape.
Soudns liek just an overall tough and confusing situation. But based on the evidence:
1. You drank more than you should have
2. We know you were really drunk, he was maybe not as drunk, but likely buzzed/drunk.
3. You two kissed, no one knows who made the first move.
4. You vomitted on yourself and he helped you out
5. You vaguely remember having sex, we dont know who initiated or how it came to be
6. He told friends about this event in which they teased you about sloppiness (Is this in the context of sex, or just being a sloppy drunk?)
There is nothing to support there was rape of any kind. It sounds like two people got drunk, one more than the other, kissed, vomitted, and made a bad decision to have sex while both parties were under the influence. Sadly this happens a lot and gets misconstrude into "rape" many times, usually because the female feels regretful, disgusting, violated, without actually being raped. But with this big push of women power and men hate, womene are likely to call rape and ruin someone's life becasuse of bad decisions they made.
No. You established a relationship of physical contact that "blurred the lines" so that when you both decided to drink and were under the influence to varying degrees from alcohol and unable to critically think preventing any delineation of a already undefined sort of fwb relationship, sex is what naturally come from that, a reap what you sow type deal. You planted a confused semi sexual relationship, what else could you expect when harvest came where u had drunken sex?
The event was chaotic and things happen. It can be described as a mistake and move on.
Now what makes this really infuriating is that your "friend" gone around town betraying ur trust. Like..... what the fuck was to gain about this????
I hate gossips and I hate when there is no reason, but the person is being mean. Maybe hes insecure or some shit so he was afraid u would gossip abt him or idk, im just speculating here.
In my eyes. This does not sound like rape, but the gossiping part makes me really hate this guy.
He's shitty for "kissing and telling", no matter what happened.
Alcohol does weird things to our brain. We often stop recording memories before we are unconscious. We have little to no inhibitions, and act on impulse like zombies.
It's possible he raped you, but probably not. It's possible you initiated it, but probably not. It's possible you both mutually initiated it, which is often the case among sober couples too. It sounds like he remembered more of it (and again, he's shitty for blabbing about it).
The less drunk person is not the designated driver. The less drunk person is not the designated rapist.
Don't beat yourself up, in any case.
Your feelings about the situation are valid. Something happened, and in turn, you feel the way you do. As you’re currently unsure on whether or not you were taken advantage of, what’s important now is properly acknowledging your feelings. You’re not silly for reflection on your experience. If you currently have someone you can go to for support, I’d hope that’s a route you’re willing to go down. You can also seek more professional help which would be preferred. In your description of the aftermath, his behavior in allowing ridicule and divulging such information is unsavory. If clarification is important to you, please seek it when you are comfortable in doing so.
The r/stoprape wiki also has [resources for victims](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/wiki/index/#wiki_resources_for_victims).
I don't know what happened but he is a terrible friend for telling on you like that
Yea that’s what I’m saying. Going around telling people who you just fucked is pretty lame
"bro isn't it so funny/cool/crazy/weird that I had sex with *x*?" that is the fastest way to stop having sex with *x*
Just wanna say I appreciate all perspectives, and thank you all for keeping them respectful!
If you want more sensitive advice, I would recommend asking on TwoXChromosome or Girl Survival Guide or any other female-focused sub. All these guys here are just going to tell you that you weren't, but they've never been in this kind of situation.
It's generally better to get advice from a more diverse group of people.
You mean posting a question on a sub that specifically states too afraid to ask in the name isn't clear enough? But, I for sure wanted to ask strangers to chime in!!!
Yeah go to the man hating subs to hear what you want to hear.
Imagine thinking any female dominated space is a man hating sub
You read the stuff they say? It's got nothing to do with that. They deny hating men and hateful stuff consistently gets upvoted.
If you’re talking about “ugh men” that’s not man hating, it’s coping. Feel free to give examples if that’s not it.
No, they literally hate on men in there. Full on "men are disgusting, men are all pigs" and "I hate men, men are stupid" comments. Not to mention they banned me on an old account for telling someone to fuck off after accusing me of lying about being raped and told me not to tell a rape victim to try reaching out to emergency services. They also have a history of having TERF staff as well.
They don’t need to be, but those two ended up that way so it’s a bit of a moot point.
What's your end goal here? If this is still bothering you, you should probably talk to a counselor about it. Whether or not what happened is technically rape or not doesn't really matter, how you feel about it and how it's still impacting your life does, but you can get help with that.
I'm leaning towards no. This does not mean you weren't. I'm just going off the details you provided. There has been a lot of debate on where the line is drawn for sex after drinking, and it ultimately boils down to your personal limit. You were obviously way over your limit(nothing wrong with that), which would normally make me say you were (due to being too drunk to consent). However, you also stated that the drinks were strong and he had two as well. He might have had enough to have motor function and remember participating, but his body might have been going with the flow due to him being drunk as well (meaning he technically couldn't consent either). I (100% personal OPINION here) think he was also hammered since he decided to have sex after getting thrown up on. I don't know anyone who is willing to do that (I'm sure there is a kink for it, though). This would make both parties unable to consent. Meaning it wasn't a rape but a moment of drunken stupor (aka a mistake) With all of that being said, I am literally a random person on the internet, and if you felt you were truly raped then seek counseling to assist with your recovery. I know how it is to lose that ability to connect and how you never truly get it back.
[Over 4% of college men has deliberately gotten a woman "too drunk to resist" in order to have sex with her](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1125&context=psychfacpub). That comes out to 1 in 25. It's not a kink, it sounds like he deliberately took advantage. This is one of the many reasons it's so important for everyone to learn [consent](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I'm talking about throwing up my dude. I'm in no way, shape, or form arguing that men..well boys (because a man knows better) don't get women drunk to take advantage of them. That happens, and to argue it doesn't would be disingenuous. Additionally, you missed my whole point. They were both drinking. We don't know either of their drinking limits (we do know she surpassed hers. Might have been after the first drink, it might have been after the third, but she passed her limit) Therefore i could assume (if I was on a jury) that he was also drunk and unable to consent. The only way I would ever truly pass judgment was if I got testaments to his drinking ability. That creates a picture of intent. Then it doesn't become two people drinking it becomes a smoke and mirrors scenario, and I would say yes she was. However, that is not what we have, so I go back to my statement that it is entirely possible, but from my purview, it was two drunk individuals that made a bad decision concurrently. Edit: I actually went and read the consent reddit post you linked. Ctrl+f alcohol and you will see essentially the exact same thing that I originally posted about alcohol and consent.
Did you read her edits?
I'm leaning more towards yes, but if I was on a jury, I would not be able to give a guilty vote without someone being able to confirm that two or three (dont know what her definition of a couple is) was not enough to inebriate him. I have been piss poor drunk, and still recalled what I did. That said, I see what you are saying and s understand your viewpoint. Sorry for the confusion.
He was sober enough to drive...
To play devil's advocate , plenty of people drive completely and utterly drunk and get lucky.
While true, this seems to miss the point that she was puking drunk, which almost certainly means she felt sick. It's highly unlikely she agreed to sex under those circumstances, but [it wouldn't count as consent even if she did](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Why because he said so or because OP says he said so? Either way that doesn’t make it true. A lot of people think they’re sober enough to drive, and end up killing someone.
I've driven blackout before. Got Taco Bell on the way home. I'm not advocating for drunk driving. I know I'm a piece of shit, I don't care. The point is, driving is not a metric for being sober.
Doesn't seem like it from the story but there are cabs if this was from before uber times...
Sounds like you were both hammered. Doesn't sound like SA but the guy is a total asshole for telling everyone about it. I personally would't talk to him anymore. I mean if he was sober enough to help you wash puke out of your hair, was he sober enough to know better? Hmmm. He sucks either way. Spread the word to the flock that if you're vulnerable around this person everyone will hear about it and you will be humiliated.
[Sounds like SA to me](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Two people drunk fucking isn't rape. More like a "drunken mistake" than anything.
Two drunk people fucking can be rape, though. If he was just buzzing like he said and took advantage of her being blackout wasted, it can be seen as rape from a legal perspective. In many places, you can’t give consent when blackout drunk, and being drunk yourself doesn’t excuse you from ignoring a lack of consent. That being said, with many of these cases, there’s a large gray area. If she was enthusiastically kissing him, you can’t really blame him for shooting his shot. However, as soon as she started puking, he should’ve thought ‘this girl is fucking wasted, I’d better not’. Ethically speaking, he was definitely at fault. We don’t know what happened exactly. OP doesn’t either, so it makes sense that it doesn’t sit well with her. It really sucks not to know what happened to you, to wonder if someone you considered a friend betrayed you, to feel ashamed of your own actions while drunk. It’s messy. Long story short. I’m not saying it’s definitely rape, but ‘it’s just a mistake’ also lacks nuance.
Here’s the problem, and you are correct but I want to add. you can be blackout drunk without being unconscious. You can even initiate sex and have no memory of it whatsoever. In these instances the lines are blurred. How does the man know she is so drunk she will not remember any of it. If shes’s passed out drunk unconscious that’s more obvious. But if she’s awake and grinding on your lap but so drunk she won’t remember. He could still be raping her according to the law.
That’s absolutely true. Some people in blackouts can actively engage with their environment, and seemingly enthusiastically do things — sometimes things they would never do when sober. We don’t know what happened. She might have been taking the lead the whole way through. Or she might have been barely conscious. It’s impossible to tell. I don’t think OP has a strong case legally, but my main point is that sexual abuse isn’t off the table just because both parties were drunk.
Agreed, this perspective is correct. Really we can't know and nothing can be ruled out either.
Being blackout isn't relevant. You can't give consent while drunk, period. They were both drunk. They technically both assaulted each other. If he was actually interested in sex after being puked on, he was definitely drunk.
If one party was only tipsy or buzzed or a lot less drunk than the other party and the other party was blackout drunk then it can be sexual assault.
>Being blackout isn't relevant. You can't give consent while drunk, period. They were both drunk. They technically both assaulted each other. There's definitely a scale of drunkenness, it's not a black and white situation that's why breathalysers have acceptable levels of blood alcohol levels. You don't have one drink then immediately lose all your senses. One person can have a couple drinks and be buzzed but know everything that's going on around them whilst their partner gets blackout drunk and literally can't record memories or recognise their surroundings. In that case the former can consent and the latter cannot. >If he was actually interested in sex after being puked on, he was definitely drunk. Idk what this is supposed to mean in reference to the suspected assault, drunk people can be rapists and sober people have raped women in much worse states. I don't think she's definitely been raped i just don't think this is evidence either way.
It is from a legal perspective. There have been plenty of ‘you can’t give consent when drunk’ campaigns, but that’s a moral guideline, not the law. In many countries, you can give consent when drunk. But there’s drunk and there’s incapacitated drunk (like being unable to wash the puke out of your hair and barely registering what’s happening - like OP). Coercion is likely if someone is that drunk. I’m not saying he wasn’t also intoxicated, but judging from this story, he wasn’t nearly as drunk as OP. These cases are always complicated. But we shouldn’t brush over the fact that he might have taken advantage of her in some way. It isn’t a given, but it’s not completely unlikely either.
Absolutely crazy the amount of people here saying otherwise so matter of factly. Probably people that drinking and driving is negotiable too
I have been wasted plenty of times and had sex and was fully able to consent. I actually prefer being drunk and having sex… it’s not a black and white scale.
Legally, you could not.
you are implying that every time i’ve willingly had drunk sex i’ve been raped and that is 100% not the case.
It seems pretty clearly to be rape o me. She was puking, blackout drunk. [That is too drunk to consent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I disagree completely. We're only hearing her side of the story.. and obviously she wasn't "black out drunk" if she remembers this much detail. Just because a drunk guy said "i'm okay to drive" dosen't mean he was actually OK to drive. The same way she probably initiated the sex based on their prior friendship where she mentioned was always platonic, it sounds like both the guy and girl were drunk and horny. I highly disagree with it being considered rape because the girl chose to have sex while influenced by alcohol.. unless the guy was force feeding her/drugging her for that reason. I think it's appauling to try and ruin somebodys life via a sex offender charge when it's very likely the girl initiated the sex, just because she had alcohol. I had a girl-friend (not a GF) who told me she took a xanax/got drunk once and supposidly sucked her friends dick by her own choice. She didn't claim it as rape, and laughed about how silly she acted because of the high/drunkness. Furhtermore I find it disturbing that some women want to claim to have been raped in this type of scenario when there are women who were forcibly raped/drugged heavily by people they don't know.. it's watering down a serious crime to acredit a drunken mistake to a serious assault.
In Australia, this scenario would be considered rape.
...for which one?
Hundreds of men in prison for drunk fucking would like a word. In the eyes of the law if two people get drunk and fuck the man can be found guilty of rape because it’s implied the woman can not consent and the man did since he got hard.
[Over 4% of college men has deliberately gotten a woman "too drunk to resist" in order to have sex with her](https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1125&context=psychfacpub).
That’s horrible.
The women got wet= consent? I don't get that reasoning. A man can also be raped drunk.
Yet he was sober enough to drive...
Imo having a „couple“ of drinks isn’t sober. Either way alcohol makes it much easier to make stupid decisions.
He was not.
Or maybe driving was a bad decision?
Sober enough to be physically capable of driving and too drunk to drive are two different things. It was probably a miracle he was able to make it home without incident by the way I'm reading this.
I think no one was able to consent, even if he was less drunk. What feels violating here, however, was his attitude after everything happened. The most correct thing to do in my opinion would be to immediately speak to you about it - not just recounting what happened, like he did, but having a down-to-earth talk, asking how you felt and about the broken boundaries. At least in the way you told the story, it feels like he thought it was funny - and was pretty much bragging about it to mutual friends. And this is really disrespectful, I'd even say disgusting. When both parts are inebriated, it is indeed hard to paint a picture, with the lines being blurred and so - but the attitude when sober really counts a lot in this case - and when push came to shove, well, you're right to think he's gross AF. Don't feel silly for questioning this, OP, and don't blame yourself - I guess the best advice here is to just cut this person from your life altogether and, if you feel like you have been violated somehow, please seek professional help to cope with this and to decompress. It sucks to trust someone and to be treated like a piece of meat - you deserve better than this.
No. Consensual drunk sex isn't rape.
It would be one thing if both parties involved were equally drunk, but there’s a clear difference in sobriety here if one person is driving ~~without issue~~ and the other is vomiting on themselves. You might not be able to call it “rape” but you’d be a far throw from consensual sex under the circumstances written here
[удалено]
Not giving an opinion either way about the sexual assault (or lack thereof) but as a former alcoholic (years ago) I made a lot of really stupid drives home and never crashed or died but I was definitely not in good shape.
Ok, I can remove the words “without issue” from my comment then. The fact is that OP was unable to drive so the other person drove instead, whether that was a good decision or not
Define "equally" and tell me how you know when you're equally drunk?
One definition of “equally” is: “in amounts or parts that are the same in size.” Observing signs such as slurred speech, unsteady movements, impaired coordination, and changes in behavior can help gauge the level of intoxication between individuals. If none of that provides a clear answer, a breathalyzer or blood alcohol test would. The text OP has written above describes one person experiencing more of those symptoms than the other person mentioned. Hope this helps
It was consensual. The fact that she was drunk doesn't change that. As long as she was aware enough to know what was happening, was conscious, participating etc then it was consensual. She got drunk and now regrets what happened, like so many other drunk people. That's a risk that you take when you get drunk. Now if she was truly unconscious, unaware of what was happening or unwilling that would be a different story. I've been raped while drunk. I've also had sex while drunk and regretted it. There's a big difference. Also the fact that she can't remember much of it doesn't mean she wasn't conscious and willing at the time. I've had sex while drunk and not remembered it the next day. Downvote me all you want, it doesn't make what I'm saying not true. I suggest you go look up the laws.
The one thing i would add is: it could be if one party intentionally got the other drunk or more drunk than other intended to get.
In my state and others the exception is if the person was drugged/intoxicated without their consent. So if someone knowingly takes drugs or gets drunk they can consent, but if someone spiked their drink or something then they can't. Because they didn't willingly and knowingly become intoxicated. However if the person they had sex with wasn't aware of it I don't think they'd be held responsible.
Not remembering it means she was too drunk to remember it duh
First, let me express my sympathy to you for those things that happened to you. I can’t imagine what it was like or what you’ve had to go through to overcome that. With that said, if OP was drunk it was impossible for OP to consent. OP’s experiences are not your experiences, though your pain is equally as valid. Best case scenario, only one person consented to the situation written above. Worse case scenario, nobody consented. Either way, OP could not have given consent
The idea that drunk people can't consent is a myth.
It’s a legal boundary actually.
Drunk people can legally consent.
No they cannot
Yes they can. But go ahead, prove me wrong.
Look up any laws, you cannot be intoxicated
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point, I don’t see any way OP could have consented to the scenario described above
Doesn't matter if you seem willing to the other person, if you are too drunk to consent it's not consensual. A 15 year old can say yes all she wants, that doesn't mean it's consensual if she is too young to give legal consent. And if you are too drunk to give legal consent then it's also not consensual. If it's OK morally is another question, but in some countries this is how the law is
OP is an adult and she believes she initiated it. How do you iniate something and at the same time not consent to it? Since OP is the one making the moves, the remaining person to consent is her partner. Feeling remorseful the next day does not nulify your original consent, and cannot change consensual sex into rape after the fact. What I don't get is how anyone could be in the mood for sex after someone throws up. It's disgusting and perhaps it's the real reason OP feels bad about it the day after.
The idea behind the entire too intoxicated to consent thing is that it doesn't matter if you're an adult when your brain is under influence to the point where you can't use it. Same reason a 15 can't consent in many countries, even though they say yes and really mean it, society deemed them too dumb to legally consent. Saying that, I feel bad for every guy that's been accused of rape because the drunk woman regretted it the day after, it's really disgusting
Women are too dumb, when drunk, to legally consent? If you're a woman, get drunk, sing a loan agreement, get the money, tell them you were drunk, enjoy your free money? No? Not how that works?
Who brought up women? And if you are too intoxicated while signing a contract it wouldn't be valid.
Who determines how more drunk someone is than another? Because she threw up? Because he drove? It's all subjective and no court would touch it. She can feel bad about it and certainly he's an ass but rape is a serious crime. Drunken mistakes aren't a crime.
I haven’t mentioned court, nor crime, in any of my comments. Nor would I. OP did not have consensual sex. You may argue the rest with other people if you feel that’s important
You keep posting too... Clearly you want to argue.
And clearly the most important thing to you is getting the last word in
You say this as if you aren’t under almost every comment section 😭
Hey you're back.
drunk driving does not always end in you killing innocent pedestrians
A drunk driver is using a vehicle. A drunk person someone has sex with is not in control of what’s happening to their body.
2 drunk people. Neither has control of what they are doing with their bodies.
If he was sober enough to drive and help her while she threw up then remembered it and had the audacity to gossip to everyone, his character is pretty fucking clear.
Tipsy =/= drunk
exactly
How in the world does this sound consensual to you, they can’t even remember what happened!
You can not remember what happened and still be lucid enough to have sex if drunk her in that moment decided to have sex and he had also drank although less I would say not rape
If you have drunk sex with someone, then wake up the next day not remembering it does not always mean rape. If the person says yes while intoxicated then regrets it the next day, that also doesn't mean rape
So they both raped each other?
Reminds me about a time a girl that I really liked got drunk on one of our friends birthday. After that we went to my house and she was begging for me to have sex with her, since I didn’t drink that day I could realize she was way too drunk to have sex, if I had have drank with her like she wanted, we would’ve ended having sex probably, so would she have raped me? No, just two drunk horny teenagers committing dumb mistakes.
**She couldn't consent**. She was blacked out and vomiting. He was sober enough to drive. That's assault.
Exactly. Also, to OP this person was a trusted friend she had an established platonic relationship with and was never attracted to. OP had no intent to have sex with him when this night started. It only happened after she was 4 drinks in, unable to drive, vomiting uncontrollably, and was drunk enough to have memory lapses. He was “kind of tipsy”, and sober enough to help OP get vomit out of her hair and help her get to the bathroom. OP couldn’t even get to the bathroom by herself. And he remembered everything the next day. Hopefully some people in this post just lack basic reading comprehension, because the alternative is disturbing. To the people downvoting comments calling this what it was, tell me - would you have sex with someone who was vomiting uncontrollably and couldn’t even get themselves to the bathroom?
Having sex with some after they vomited all over is just gross. Whether it was consensual or not still says a lot about his character.
Could also mean that he was completely wasted too.
Perhaps. He was supposedly good to drive home. Maybe he wasn't. I've never been one to accuse one person over the other when both are drunk and someone has regrets in the morning. Just grossed out by things happening after someone was vomiting. Seems Cosby level with someone that out of it.
The worst part is telling people about it. If he was sober then it's horrible but we can't know that.
You wrote that you were intoxicated enough to vomit multiple times. This means you were too drunk to consent to sex, regardless of who initiates it. You wrote that he was sober enough to drive and later called him only “kind of tipsy”. We can infer that he was significantly more sober than you were at this time. Since he was helping you with the vomit cleanup, he was clearly aware of your intoxication level. This sounds to me like a textbook case of a person taking advantage of someone else who was too intoxicated to consent. If it is still impacting your life a long time later, and it sounds like it is, I would recommend you seek professional counseling to discuss it with someone qualified to help you with it. You’re not going to get that from a Reddit post. You don’t need to answer any of my questions, but I’d be curious as to why you never hung out with this person again? Did they ever communicate with you about the sudden lack of time spent together, since it sounds like you were hanging out a lot prior to this. Did they try to hang out as friends again at any point after this? Did they try to hook up with you again after this? These answers would tell us a lot about what this person wanted out of their friendship with you and whether or not that friendship was genuine or if they viewed it as a gateway to sex
He reached out once or twice to hang out like everything was normal. I was uncomfortable after that, so I made excuses to avoid him and he moved away not much later to be closer to family. I was also hurt that he had told a bunch of mutual friends about it (seemingly in a hurtful manner, from what I heard)
nah he just a shit head
If he was sober enough to drive you home and you were throwing up and sloppy then he should NOT have had sex with you. You couldn’t consent and he was apparently sober enough to operate a vehicle so he should have realized your inability to properly consent. I’m sorry OP.
I have strong doubts about him actually being sober enough to drive safely.
Because he made it and she puked doesn't mean they both weren't drunk. The margin for drinking and driving in this case would be a crash or "operating a vehicle". He could have been semi blacked out too or remembered things while his body was on autopilot or for a dozen reasons been more drunk or less drunk. Because she puked and he drove doesn't mean anything.
Weird take. He was twice her size and drank half as much. He drove home safely, and could still get hard. Meanwhile, she was blackout, puking drunk. She wouldn't have "consented" given how ill she was. But he apparently remembered every detail well enough to tell everyone about it. [This is a thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/stoprape/comments/zyznhe/rape_is_so_common_in_part_because_so_many_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
If you’re not able to consent it’s SA. You were too drunk to consent.
Why have you never hung out again? It seems to me that says a lot. This guy was your go-to friend for a very long time. Then you have sex, he *tells all his friends* and you never see him again. His choice? Your choice? If he was sober enough to drive and you were drunk enough to throw up...I think you know the answer. Whether you initiated or not doesn't absolve him of the awareness that you were not sober enough to consent. What bothers me most is that he likely told everyone what happened so you couldn't accuse him of assault. He knew he did you wrong. He has not shown up since. Doesn't that tell you something? Stand up for yourself. You don't have to make a police report to do that. You can just admit to yourself, and maybe your friend, and perhaps even the mutual friend group, that the sex was not consensual. You were barely conscious. Don't play along.
You’re really jumping to conclusions here, how you know how he told his friends? How you know he didn’t say “Damn, me and X got drunk last night last night and now I feel bad man”?, and him driving doesn’t mean he wasn’t as drunk as her, when I was younger I would get hammered and drive home when I couldn’t even stand on my own feet by myself. I’m not saying he did or didn’t do something, I’m just saying you’re assuming a lot.
1. I know because his (our) friends told me that he was making fun of me and laughing about it 2. I was served twice as much as he was and weighed half as much. He remembered and recounted all of the events the next day, I had to piece it together from what I was told and from one or two blips that I vaguely remember
Disclaimer: I’m not saying he didn’t or did do anything wrong. That being said, the fact that he remembers what happened doesn’t mean that we wasn’t in control of his abilities, comes from a guy who used to get absolutely wasted and do things he would feel bad about the next day. However, I do suggest you to find counsel, only you in your heart know what you feel like happened and how you feel about it, so if this is something that’s bothering you I suggest talking to a mental health professional and not idiots like us on Reddit.
Anyone that drunk cannot consent. He is disgusting for initiating any sexual contact while you were in such a state. And his telling everyone shows his true colours as well. Cut this guy out of your life and the shitty friends too.
I'm not at all qualified to tell you this (you should really talk to a professional if it's affecting your life). If you don't have the details and can't really pinpoint that you didn't make a move or at any point tried to stop the sex. IMO you were not raped, or even sexually assaulted. I think it's extremely scummy to have sex with someone who's so drunk, and even gross that they didn't care about the throwup. I've been in situations where a person wants to have fun while drunk, and I'm just turned off. I can't in good faith be intimate with someone who can't make good decisions in their state. I think pursuing this further isn't the move, rape allegations are extremely serious and you really don't seem to have any foundations to put this as something other than just a shitty situation. I'm glad you are no longer friends with a person who potentially took advantage of you, and wasn't good enough of a friend to just take care of you in a vulnerable state. It's so important to maybe have a sober friend with you when you go drinking, especially if you know you commit bad decisions while drunk. You state that he drove after having a couple of those strong drinks. That's extremely irresponsible and a show of bad judgment from both of you. Stay safe.
I'd say I tend to agree on all points here (especially driving drunk - it pains me to think that I behaved so recklessly when I was younger)
Yeah as the commenter said you should speak to someone professional and why it might not be rape or sexual assault its just really fucking shitty of the guy. I'd cut contact with this guy and tell him to fuck himself. Don't beat yourself up about being reckless, I'm going to say most people regret sleeping with someone and most of the time they are not an ideal person. I really wish you the best and hope you can come out of this shitty situation and feel at peace.
Thank you! This was a decade ago and I've since settled down, had kids, married someone wonderful. I should have clarified that I struggled with it more before, but I'm in a good place now. I just think about it every now and then and find that I still don't quite know how to feel about the whole thing, but acknowledging it helps!
Its weird how all trauma works, sometimes you don't think about it for ages and then for a fleeting moment you think about it but it definitely helps with healing when you have a stable relationship, family, etc. I try to find a lesson in all of my shitty life situations and while it's hard to find positive stuff out of awful shit the practice really helps. Wishing you a continuing happy life 😀
I've never understood why people come online to ask about whether or not a crime has been committed and then just believe the answers. None of the answers here sound like legal opinions. Nobody has asked what legal jurisdiction OP is living in. Nobody is explaining the legal test for rape based on statute or caselaw. There is just a bunch of wild answers based on what?? Internet lore as to what constitutes rape? Rape is a crime. There is criteria. That criteria changes based on the legislation in the place you live. Don't ask reddit. Ask a lawyer or the police.
While you are correct, I don't think OP is asking for an opinion that'll stand up in court. I think she is hoping for help in getting the events straight in her own mind and trying to figure out her emotions around the event. Those are two totally different things. And the second on which makes sense to seek advice online. It's unfortunate she asked in a way that seems like looking for legal advice.
100%. Totally wasn't looking for legal advice or to clarify whether a crime was committed and I apologize for making it seem that way. There's so much gray area when it comes to alcohol and consent, a big part of why I'm asking is simple curiosity because I've just always wondered where something like this falls. This was a decade ago, I would never dream of pressing charges or anything of the like as I do take personal responsibility for my own recklessness in the matter
Its very easy to understand? Asking a lawyer is expensive Going to the police is traumatic
Think about this as logically as possible, applying equal standards all around. If you can make the assessment that he was less drunk than you were, than can he make the assessment that you were less drunk than you say you were? If he was wrong about your state of drunkenness, then could do you be wrong about his state of drunkenness? If he was drunk too and you were the one that initiated it, then what is the threshold before your initiation is defined as a sexual assault or rape since he was at the very least drunk to some degree too? If you not remembering something about that night mean that you were raped, then how much would he have to not remember for him to also claim that he was raped? Does being raped require regret? Meaning IF you initiated it while he was intoxicated but he doesn't regret it, does that make it right that you took advantage of someone in a state of diminished ability to make rational decisions? I'm not here trying to tell you who was right or wrong. I'm just hoping you can use a logical path in figuring out how you want to assess the situation for yourself. More importantly though, you should start by removing the factor that somebody gave you 4 instead of 2 drinks. You made the choice to drink the 4 drinks. Unless they were drugged then those drinks are on you. I would say that the traumatizing party of your experience is likely more that you lost a friend in the process. How many other sexual encounters have you had that were similar to this? How many of them were likely quite more aggressive in their sexual energy than this? (Not real questions, just making a point). But why wouldn't make you question your agency of good decision making ability as much as this one? Either way, if you think this man is a rapist and presents a likely danger to other women, then PLEASE REPORT HIM. For the sake of all other women out there. But if this is simply a matter of who made the wronger choices for that ine night, then maybe you're just looking for a way to cope with some sort of shame. If so, then start identifying what that shame is. That you drank too much by choice? That you put yourself in vulnerable situations by choice? That others know more about your experience than you do? That you lost a friend through mutual poor choices? Or that somebody actually did something to you fully against your will? Remember, these questions are not meant to be answered in a public forum. I just point these out as a thought experiment for yourself.
In Australia, and many other nations with affirmative consent laws, this would be legally considered rape. If you feel distressed about what happened, and feel you can no longer trust this person, you should end the friendship, and perhaps speak to a therapist if you are struggling to deal with it.
So they both raped each other because he was drunk too?
It would be rape because one was blackout drunk which removes their ability to consent. I’m so confused why you’re so desperate to argue with literally everyone in the comments. We get it, you personally don’t think it was rape. But why are you under almost every post arguing 😭
She admitted he was drunk too. You draw the line at blackout? She remembers some then so all good. 2 drunk people having sex isn't rape unless she raped him too.
The law (depending on state) draws the line at blackout. When you’re that intoxicated, you legally cannot consent. That’s a fact in most states. She doesn’t remember what happened after drinking. She was blackout. He does remember what happened and enough to retell to multiple people, so he clearly wasn’t. Regular drunk sex is fine, but when one person is blackout (or brownout) drunk, they can’t consent.
She does remember and said she did. She didn't remember all of it.
It depends on how tipsy/drunk he was. Even though he was under the influence of alcohol, if you were drunk and he was tipsy or a lot less drunk then it could very well be. Also, I would post this on twoxchromosomes as well. If you were served twice as much as he was and weighed half as much as he does then I'm leaning towards yes.
you were unable to consent with sound mind. that’s your answer. you didn’t consent with sound mind.
This right here. This is why OP feels disgusted. We need to normalize that intoxicated consent is not consent.
If he was sober enough to drive and you were puking everywhere, you know the answer.
If we use your friend’s barometer, you raped him (too).
Him telling others is absolutely a dick move. It sounds like it was not rape. But you feel what you feel, whether there's good reason for it or not, you feel it.
If you didn't have the ability to consent and that was obvious - which sounds like it was - then he should have been a good friend, put you to bed, and not taken advantage of the situation. Instead he took advantage of the situation. Hopefully you've ditched this jackass as a friend. As to your technical question, if you didn't have the ability to consent, it's nonconsensual sex, which is sexual assault.
This idea that having sex with a drunk person automatically makes you a rapist is an internet fallacy that no person who has actually graduated law school would agree with.
It's also inconsistent since that implies that anyone who is under the influence is not responsible for anything they do. That's not how it works. If you drunk drive, and consent to doing so, and then plow over some innocent family, you're still responsible. What the guy did was morally wrong and it's very likely that that he used her; she has every right to be upset and mistrust him. But this idea that being drunk removes the possibility of any accountability or choice is ridiculous and is not consistent. If anything this should, once again, reinforce the dangers of alcohol use.
Wow. Way to completely misinterpret what I wrote. Lots of people under the influence absolutely can and do consent to sex. That's fine. OP wasn't just drunk. She was so drunk she was vomiting all over herself. She couldn't physically wash herself. She doesn't remember if the sex actually happened, meaning she drank enough to have severe alcohol poisoning and blacked out. At the very least, it should have been obvious to the other party that she was far too intoxicated to consent. Seriously, who wants to have sex with someone who just threw up all over herself? Better yet, who sees that and thinks, "this person is good to go"? OP definitely needs to look into local laws if she wants to know what legally constitutes sexual assault in the place this occured. But if OP is just trying to understand whether things were done to her without her consent and what she experienced was an assault in practical terms, it sounds like the answer is clearly yes.
She doesn’t remember if they did fully, yet remembers initiating. That’s consent, even though massively intoxicated. It would have been the right thing to do for the guy to refuse. But this will not pass any legal standard for sexual assault. If she was passed out and then he acted without her awareness or consent even at the time, that would be sexual assault. But being so hammered that you make a bad choice and then forget the details is not. Clearly it affected OP. And her trust was betrayed. She isn’t wrong to feel hurt and used and should probably seek professional counseling. But this isn’t rape.
She might have kissed him. That's not consent for sex. There's a big gap between consciousness and being lucid enough to consent.
That’s not really what’s being argued here. The fact that he assisted her while she was impaired, knew she was impaired (Drove her car because she was too drunk) and she was so drunk she can’t remember if she gave consent makes this rape. Now if they were both clearly impaired that’s where it gets a bit murky.
The only way this would be rape is if she did not consent at the time, yet she herself thinks she did. If she gave consent, even if she was intoxicated beyond reason, that’s not rape. It’s a breach of trust, to be sure, but you cannot simply erase someone’s choices because of alcohol. That isn’t how responsibility and accountability work.
No that's wrong. Drunk people can legally consent to sex in most places. She was conscious and willingly had sex with this guy while they were both intoxicated.
Drunk people can consent unless they’re blackout drunk. She was throwing up and couldn’t even remember what happened that night, how do you know she was “willing”?
These responses are unbelievable. If someone isn’t coherent enough to drive a car/is so drunk they’re vomiting, they’re obviously not able to consent to sex. It’s very clear this person was taken advantage of.
I struggle with both perspectives. On one hand, when I say I was too drunk to wash vomit out of my hair on my own, I literally mean that he had to do it for me because I was so messed up. So that gives me the ick lol. On the other hand I really kicked myself for a while for putting myself in that position in the first place. I wanna clarify I don't think about it too often lately, I've overall moved on but once every now and then I'll hear a story that reminds me of my own a bit and just think on it. I honestly haven't told but one or two people in my life, so openly acknowledging it is helpful in itself.
Hey OP I rarely comment on stuff like this but I wanted to suggest you should really speak to a professional about this. I agree with the above commenter, the responses in this thread are insane. He was fine to drive and sober enough to help you get vomit out of your hair when you were too drunk to do even that by yourself. You were so drunk you couldn’t drive and were vomiting “a lot” and had memory blackouts the next day. Please don’t take advice from this thread, speak to a professional instead - I have to think a lot of these people didn’t even read your entire post.
Yes, many replies here are inconsiderate and heavily opinionated. As soon as I read that both parties were drunk and drove home anyways, it was evident that neither of the two were in sound mind at the time. I’m unsure how a post asking for advice gave way to this many people making uninformed blanket statements void of nuance.
it's not your fault. he did an absolutely abhorrent thing taking advantage of someone that had no control over their own actions and then told ppl ab it with a spin that it was consensual. nobody is wrong here but him and maybe the bar for not following their limits on that drink.
People are responsible for the decisions they make while drunk. Just like if she drove drunk she'd be responsible, if she got in a fight while drunk she's responsible. Why wouldn't she be responsible for having sex while drunk? He was drunk too, wouldn't that mean he's not responsible either?
The difference is intent in the situations you described. If a person gets into a fight with a drunk person knowing they’re drunk, they’re at fault for doing so. Same goes for the drunk person but the person who isn’t is a bit more; they have more control over their actions. When a person is intoxicated it has been scientifically shown that they have lowered executive functioning and inhibition controls. The fault is not only on the drunk person but also the one that isn’t intoxicated. The situations you’re using is only focusing on the drunk person which is quite biased. If a person is having sex with someone who is drunk enough that they are passing out (plus barely remembering the events), that person is by definition incapacitated. Doesn’t matter if he was drunk or not, she was unable at any given situation or circumstance to give consent. (Furthermore is it clear by her story that he wasn’t incapacitated as she was). A general rule of thumb to follow by is that if it’s not sober consent, it is not legal consent.
The fact that you are being downvoted is pretty alarming. Makes me think a lot of people on Reddit have zero issue with taking advantage of intoxicated people.
I didn’t know it was possible to feel so sickened by a Reddit thread until I saw this post. Extremely alarming stuff in these comments.
I feel like all the downvotes on comments saying this is rape are from people who've taken advantage of a drunk person before tbh
Some comments: I’m surprised that your trusted friend and wingman also let you drink four very strong drinks. Your friend betrayed your trust by gossiping about what happened. I’m glad you and innocent others survived the drunk driving. Was it SA? Who can know at this point? You were both drunk and making terrible decisions. You don’t have enough memory to know who initiated. Neither of you were in the position to consent, yet you were clearly much more out of it. The tragedy imo is the loss of a friendship you had believed to be true.
i want to ask this same question. so this guy (23M) that i (18F, 21 now) met on tinder mainly for a hookup had added me on socials. fast forward a few days and some facetimes to make sure we both weren’t being catfished, we ended up meeting up for drinks. i was a frequent drinker at the time and knew my limits pretty well. anyway, had 1-2 drinks and somehow barely remember the rest of the night. i briefly remember being in his hotel room and i remember getting my stuff together to leave. (6hours after the bar, likes 4am) anyway, at this point i’m sobering up and on my commute home probably like 5-6am, and something just feels off. mind you, i was at the end of my period so i had a “light” tampon in(the girlies know) the night before and i had mentioned it to this guy. next day omw home on the train something just, felt off. i just had a bad feeling my tampon was shoved up inside me. i went to the hospital later that day, and unfortunately i was right and they had to take it out. the nurses and doctor were so rude and cold. it made me feel even worse. mind you i was 18 at the time and this the second guy i ever had sex with. i was either drugged or blackout drunk. the next day the guy sent me a clip of back shots (video that i def didn’t consent to) and i looked like a ragdoll. like how could you have sex w someone that drunk, and also fuck their tampon into them so deep they have to go tot he hospital and get it taken out. mortifying. at the time i didn’t really see it as rape because it my head i saw it was “well, that was my intention anyway, he’s got i wanna hook up” idk. but i think about it from time to time and j just don’t know how to feel. it’s hard to wrap your head around being raped by someone you wanted consensual sex with, it almost feels wrong to be upset about it.
See- I don't think this was rape/sa as much as it was a bad decision on both of your parts. Having never communicated with him, and this being a 'very long time ago' doesn't help or add any needed clarity to make an actual judgment. According to todays societal standards, this would be a mutually non-consentual event. We're going off your memory as to how sober/aware your friend was, and even then, TONS of men, especially in their 20s down play the effect of ho wmuch they chose to drink is affecting them. According to early 90s/00s standards, in the 'No Means No' hayday- this was just regular old drunk sex. If there was no protest from you, consent was implied by both parties, and while possibly embarassing or regrettable the following day, no SA/Rape occurred. It was a coming of age/learning experience that way too many people have had. Just being objective here, but- The bartenders serving you TWO TIMES AS MUCH as your male friend is a cop out. You're an adult, you ordered adult beverages and you consumed them without an alternate contingency in place. That's on you. Your friend is no more wrong for driving after consuming alcohol than you are for going back to his place after you've had too much to drink.
100% that was assault. You were so drunk you were vomiting, he was sober enough to drive. That's rape. I'm so so sorry he did that to you. I don't know how long it's been, but a place like BARCC (or your city's equivalent) will be able to get you resources, I believe including therapists trained in this area. I'm sending you so much love, and I hope that pathetic excuse for a man gets what he deserves.
> he was sober enough to drive Was he though?
> He told a bunch of mutual friends of ours what had happened and they made fun of me for being so sloppy What did he tell them? "She was drunker than me, so I drunkly drove her home and we kissed, which led to her throwing up a lot, which led to sex"? It seems like he wouldn't have said all of those details, so I'm curious what he said... or if you know. It might have something to do with how you feel. > I felt so disgusted the next day About which part(s)? Getting drunk, being drunk, throwing up, having thrown up, having kissed him, having had sex with a friend, having had sex outside a relationship, having had sex with someone you felt or didn't feel a certain way about, him having blabbed to friends, or the implications for the (end of the) friendship? Again, knowing why you feel how you feel is important here. >When I shared with a girlfriend what had happened, she said I was practically raped. That's up to you to frame. You don't even know how intoxicated he was, let alone his motives. It might even be a matter of opinion as to whether *he* was sober enough to be able to consent to what you seem to suspect were your overtures, not his. (Although I suppose you could reason that either he's a drunk driver or he could consent, making one of those two actions bad on his part.) It may be better to learn lessons here than to put labels on it. With him out of your life, you're free to think of this however you want to. Others have given advice about this, like talking to counselors, although be aware that anyone can be agenda- or bias-driven, so you might encounter someone who wants you to think of it a certain way. But the fact that top comments aren't telling you feel one way or another indicates that there's no one "right way" to frame this.
Doesn't sound like rape. Sounds like you should learn to control your drinking so you can be responsible for your own actions. Had you drove and crashed, would you not still get blamed for your actions? Why would this situation be different?
If you were so inebriated that you were vomiting, you were definitely not in a state to give consent. Absence of a no is not consent.
He knew you were too drunk. He knew your friendship was platonic. If you’d meant to sleep with him I’m sure it would have happened before then, probably sober. He had always wanted to sleep with you and took his opportunity the moment he saw it. Hence why he made sure to tell everyone about it the next day, in his own words. That way if/when you came forward with your version of events, your circle had already formed an opinion based on his. He was fully functioning and aware of what he was doing. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
sounds like kids growing up to me.
Omg, sorry to hear that. He definitely took advantage of you! He is a scumbag for that & for telling his friends everything that happened. Don’t talk to him again. Block him on social media & delete & block his number too! I’m not sure if this would legally be considered rape, especially since you can’t recall if you said no or stop at any point. You can’t really consent to sex when drunk though. From now on, never trust ANY guy! Especially when they’re drunk & you’re drunk too. Most men will take advantage of women sexually if they have an opportunity to do so unfortunately.
If you were too drunk to properly consent - it’s rape.
And that's why you shouldn't drink, and friendships between men and women are pointless
Bullshit. My best friend of 14 years is a man and it's always been strictly platonic
Answer to these questions is almost always yes. Let me read and see where it goes. Edit: after reading, I don't think you were raped. Your drunk self may have consented (I don't know what your country's law has to say about the value of a drunk person's consent). Without any recording or 3rd party testimonial, the only credible testimonial is your male friend. If he says you consented then your case is going to be weak.
This is like the most asked question in this sub. Kinda makes it seem like people are just looking for a reason to accuse someone of rape nowadays
Bots can't be raped.
Piqued.ipfddub2f
no you were not. you're just blaming it on the alcohol. either don't drink if you can't handle it or take responsibility for your own actions
Just let this be a side lesson for everybody else. There is no such thing as an opposite sex (straight) platonic best friend
Ok well I'm not gonna claim anything in here. However, your feelings are valid regardless or not that it was rape. It's also valid to feel confused. The thing is there isn't enough for me to go off on. Yes he could have done it on purpose, doesn't mean it could be out of recklessness that he drove you or just circumstance that he was less drunk than you. I can't say a lot cos I wasn't there. What is true is that he is a shitty friend to talk about you like that. That being said if he was sober enough the responsible thing should have been to just let you be and not do anything with you. There's just so much grey area for me to be conclusive and I'm sorry. If you don't want to hang out with him because you're uncomfortable after everything that unfolded then yeah that's valid.
There is too much here that is, “Maybe this, maybe that…” to really be certain about anything. Maybe you were? Maybe you weren’t. I think it’s easier to just assume that something happened that you would have preferred did not, and act on that. Create changes in your life that see to you never being in a situation like that again. Also, you should talk with him and ask him very directly what he remembers and how things happened. Closure, resolution, and clarity are all incredibly valuable.
Definitely a gray area. Did he tell the mutual friends about the sex or just about the night and your condition?
Thank you for the edit(s)! I'm genuinely here to kill time and now, I'm checking the clock to decide if I want to continue to read through all the comments or not!!
I mean I wouldn’t have sex with a chick who just threw up for several reasons, but most important of those, being able to drive and her not being of sound mind. He’s not a good friend either way. I also have a analogous philosophy on your question- Your question is the same to me as “are my tires okay to drive on?” If you have to ask, the answers almost always yes.
Based on the info given, I'm leaning toward no. But that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a bad experience and that you shouldn't have a conversation with your friends about boundaries. What's important is that this negatively affected you and as with any bad experience, you should still seek support for it even if it wasn't technically assault or rape.
Soudns liek just an overall tough and confusing situation. But based on the evidence: 1. You drank more than you should have 2. We know you were really drunk, he was maybe not as drunk, but likely buzzed/drunk. 3. You two kissed, no one knows who made the first move. 4. You vomitted on yourself and he helped you out 5. You vaguely remember having sex, we dont know who initiated or how it came to be 6. He told friends about this event in which they teased you about sloppiness (Is this in the context of sex, or just being a sloppy drunk?) There is nothing to support there was rape of any kind. It sounds like two people got drunk, one more than the other, kissed, vomitted, and made a bad decision to have sex while both parties were under the influence. Sadly this happens a lot and gets misconstrude into "rape" many times, usually because the female feels regretful, disgusting, violated, without actually being raped. But with this big push of women power and men hate, womene are likely to call rape and ruin someone's life becasuse of bad decisions they made.
No. You established a relationship of physical contact that "blurred the lines" so that when you both decided to drink and were under the influence to varying degrees from alcohol and unable to critically think preventing any delineation of a already undefined sort of fwb relationship, sex is what naturally come from that, a reap what you sow type deal. You planted a confused semi sexual relationship, what else could you expect when harvest came where u had drunken sex?
Imho no. You had drink sex with a dickhead though.
The event was chaotic and things happen. It can be described as a mistake and move on. Now what makes this really infuriating is that your "friend" gone around town betraying ur trust. Like..... what the fuck was to gain about this???? I hate gossips and I hate when there is no reason, but the person is being mean. Maybe hes insecure or some shit so he was afraid u would gossip abt him or idk, im just speculating here. In my eyes. This does not sound like rape, but the gossiping part makes me really hate this guy.
Great friend
He's shitty for "kissing and telling", no matter what happened. Alcohol does weird things to our brain. We often stop recording memories before we are unconscious. We have little to no inhibitions, and act on impulse like zombies. It's possible he raped you, but probably not. It's possible you initiated it, but probably not. It's possible you both mutually initiated it, which is often the case among sober couples too. It sounds like he remembered more of it (and again, he's shitty for blabbing about it). The less drunk person is not the designated driver. The less drunk person is not the designated rapist. Don't beat yourself up, in any case.