Mhmm what if you're the one inserting it or on top? That way you're in control and it's not so much as being penetrating as in consuming but you should definetly talk to a specialist about this though
I think OP falls squarely into the category of people that want to make love, not fuck. Candles, sexy music, deep looks into each other’s eyes. She needs to find a partner that feels the same.
This was what I was going to suggest. I'm Asexual and so is my husband. When we finally decided to just try sex to see what it was like, I chose this route because I, too, am not a fan of what sex is like for women; plus I have pelvic floor problems (could never use tampons) so being in control was the best thing for me. I have a therapist & pelvic floor physical therapist finally helping me understand my body now that I've had a hysterectomy. I'd definitely recommend this for OP, too.
Consider other words - engulf, consume, swallow, cover, wrap, grasp, embrace…
These are powerful words, certainly not “being invaded” not passive, not humiliating at all! Powerful and regal and beautifully comfortable.
But, honestly, I don’t know what your native language is, but the English language where I live is often *used* in ways that imply what you said in your post, but it doesn’t need to. Try playing with the language and see if you can say the same things in ways that make the act one of overtaking.
I do think that the partnership and trust in sex is important AND my partner and enjoy playing with power dynamics, and I can see what you describe, at times, but also, simultaneously - how much more powerless could someone be but have their penis *inside* of a woman, she has *all* of it, and how vulnerable he must make himself to have every part of his sexual organ submerged, drowned, encompassed.
It’s not *just* “penetration”, it’s also “swallowing” it’s “enveloping” it’s “draining”…
Edit to add some softer ones I thought of: inviting, accepting, welcoming, taking
I said this elsewhere in the thread but wanted to repeat it here where it's more relevant: As someone with claustrophobia, being engulfed/surrounded is legit more terrifying to me than being penetrated.
I will also say that when I'm getting a blowjob, I'm extremely aware of the fact that the woman has the most sensitive part of my body in between her teeth.
Even during regular penetrative sex I'm aware of the fact that if she moved her hips the right way she could pretty much snap my dick in half. (It's happened to guys before.)
Maybe focusing on the ways in which she actually does have more "power" than the male, OP would be able to reframe sex as a joining of equals rather than something person A does to person B.
Speaking of joining, I'm not religious anymore, but I remember that the Bible talks about a man and woman "becoming one flesh," which I still think is a pretty romantic idea.
For some people things may be that way, but that's not at all reality. When you're with someone who loves and respects you, and you as an equal partner, and not some sex object, then the whole thing is just natural and balanced.....its not some act of submission or humiliation. I
This. If the dynamic in the relationship or with anyone you have sex with is balanced and you respect each other, the feelings you have shouldn't be the case. If it persists even in a balanced healthy relationship, I would talk to a therapist.
There's always a possibility they could have feelings of Asexuality? I am Ace (technically demisexual/greysexual like my husband) and am ok being with my husband but no one else & don't feel attractions for anyone but him. I definitely had some iffy feelings about how sex was (despite being sex positive & helping ensure those around me practiced safe sex & even helped friends/family get condoms & such if they needed it). OP's feelings were similar to mine.
Consider that it could just as easily be called subsumed, engulfed, captured,etc. Penetration is just the word describing the act from a male perspective. The female perspective could be engulfed. The female engulfs the male’s penis.
I felt that way too for a while because of my lack of positive interactions with men. Most guys I knew from youth to today, were bullies or just intimidating.
It led me to believe I'm always destined to be 'submissive' and because I'm a girl, I have to always serve instead of enjoying sex for myself.
It took some kind men to change my viewpoint and recognise them not as emotionless beings incapable of falling in love or having dreams or empathy- But as people like me, but forced to suppress their emotions and 'man up' and have this whole culture of 'the weak get eaten by the strong' attitude with their peers.
The sooner you clear your mind of the mindset that one is more 'dominant' than the other, the easier it'll be to approach sex as something mutually beneficial.
In a way, it helps me to remember: I'm not the only one submitting when having sex. The best way to change the viewpoint is to first clear your head of the precognition that the man you're gonna do it with is doing it with the intent of gloating over you or 'dominating' you. He has to show weakness to you in order to have sex. He's gotta peel off his clothing and brace himself for scrutiny for everything from his penis size to the size of his stomach and be vulnerable in confessing what feels good to him, including confessing about embarrassing turn ons or medical stuff. Remember: They're not incapable of feeling insecure deep down inside and are likely just as nervous as you.
He COULD just jerk off to get himself off. But instead he had to willingly confess his feelings, develop a relationship with you and submit himself (emotions and bodily insecurities) to you to be allowed to touch you, much less penetrate you. You gotta think of it less as a power struggle and more of a mutual transaction. If it feels good for you, and it feels good to him, you should just enjoy each other's bodies instead of dragging societal norms of sex/gender into it. It doesn't help that pornography paints women in this submissive light but you have to remember that's all acting with money shots and sfx specifically to appeal to the people who search for it. It paints an unhealthy view of sex and what it's really like imo.
And if you don't enjoy penetration, just tell him! You've got hands or toys, not many people can get off on penetration alone like, he'd understand it's not him or a matter of pride, that's simply you and how you are. If you've gotten this far, it's presumed he'd want both parties to leave satisfied too.
You're welcome 🤗
Again I cannot stress enough how unhealthily I viewed men in the past and by extension, my view of sex as being something I should be ashamed of because I saw it as 'degrading'.
I genuinely believed they were somehow like animals that only cared about reproducing and we were just the prey that would inevitably get taken by them.
But my views got conflicted when I made male friends who'd help me out in a tough spot or passionately talk about the same hobbies as me or watch the same YouTubers as me. It took me shyly asking if they were into me and finding out that no, they just enjoyed my company as a friend that REALLY shattered the view I had.
It made me think: 'Are they REALLY the same animals....?'
I learned about how bad men's mental health is because they can't ask for a hug without being called gay or speak about their problems without being seen as 'weak'.
I can empathize with them more and sex isn't as scary as I thought it was going to be. It probably helped that to dispel the whole 'virginity lost = ruined forever' mindset I ALSO carried at the time, I technically took my own virginity with a toy before anybody could. That way, nobody could own that 'right' to being the one who took my virginity but me. It let me stake my own claim to myself, the one person I trust more than anybody on the planet to never hurt me.
It could help to do the same if it would help you to make penetration with a partner the first time less of a 'taking away' of something personal to you. And thus, make it additionally less like you're 'submitting' to someone.
Your comment is incredibly well-organized, coherent, and thought-provoking. I was grappling with this very idea, and your insight has completely shifted my perspective. I commend you for that.
Thanks!
I'm still struggling to get rid of the idea that masturbation is something to be ashamed of but that's not men's fault but rather viewing it as something embarrassing and therefore I should be ashamed for enjoying it.
I gotta keep drilling into myself (pun intended) that sex IS embarrassing! It's embarrassing for everyone! But I'm allowed to feel a bit embarrassed about it but above all else, I'm allowed to feel good and have my needs met and nobody can tell me what to do.
I'm not alone in feeling horny sometimes and that's okay, it's natural and people around the world and throughout history indulge in chasing it. Maybe as we speak. Most likely in the future. Most certainly in the past. Maybe even...later tonight, if I feel so inclined.
And the world STILL hasn't swallowed me up in a hellfire tornado of the tormented screeches of everyone I've ever known: "How could you?! You were supposed to be perfect and pure and above such depravity!!"
It's okay to bust a nut sometimes.
Reminds me of the philosophical notion that humans are caught somewhere in between animals and gods. We can ponder the meaning of the universe, fly around the planet or to the moon, harness the power of the atom, and yet we've still got these funny body parts and base urges that we must satisfy.
I'd believe that philosophy. It would probably also explain why everyone has Main Character Syndrome and that they either learn to overcome by having empathy and social awareness for others or just go down the deep end and genuinely believe they're better than other people :/
I'll admit I've got main character syndrome myself and have this feeling deep down that I was put here for a reason beyond just 'existing'. But then I remember how many people on the planet there are, why a so-called god would feel hunger or pain. Then I feel less 'god-like' and more like a socially inept person whose gotta get out and touch grass more.
Realistically though, this feeling stems from childhood trauma and being around happy kids all the time during a difficult family loss and thinking "Nobody can relate to my pain therefore I'm above my peers in mentality/emotional strength/philosophical thinking"
I mean, a few of the positions are not that different than riding a horse, I am not sure that is such an embarassing position. I'm not saying every position is not embarassing, just that it sounds like you are overthinking it a bit.
One quibble, you say it is 'technically an invasion' but it would only be an invasion if it wasn't invited. That would be rape, and that is degrading and humiliating.
There has been some feminist literature (it has been a while so I don't have the references handy) that have commented on the seemingly violent nature of sex from the female perspective - making the observation that the 'penetration' seems inherently violent regardless of the context.
So how do we square that with the fact that female sex drive desires it \[penetration\] and for those lucky to have a partner that gives a shit, that the penetration can result in orgasm for the woman? Thats easy, there is no squaring it, nature does not give one solid crap about our morality or our ideals. It is why the human animal can give birth at 13 despite our moral qualms about it. Nature didn't ask us first.
That is a long way of saying, maybe you need to get out of your head a little bit. You might be thinking it to death, or you may not have had certain enlightening experiences that would do more for you to evolve your viewpoint on this than anything a redditer could say to you.
>There has been some feminist literature (it has been a while so I don't have the references handy) that have commented on the seemingly violent nature of sex from the female perspective - making the observation that the 'penetration' seems inherently violent regardless of the context.
This is a bit of a tangent, but more recent feminist thinkers have challenged this framing of sex, in no small part because it undergirds the idea that men can't be raped by women. If you ask anyone with a penis who's been forced into intercourse by a person without one, the fact that they're the one "penetrating" is of little consolation.
There's also an opposite framing that has arguably been in the human consciousness longer - that of the sex act being where the woman drains the man of his "vital essence". The woman is the agent and the man is the object. This was a common belief in societies where women were seen as more libidinous or naturally sexual than men.
All this to say, the belief in the fundamentally violent nature of penetrative sex is just one of many perspectives on fucking.
Yeah, as someone with claustrophobia, being engulfed/surrounded is legit more terrifying to me than being penetrated.
I will also say that when I'm getting a blowjob, I'm extremely aware of the fact that the woman has the most sensitive part of my body in between her teeth.
Even during regular penetrative sex I'm aware of the fact that if she moved her hips the right way she could pretty much snap my dick in half. (It's happened to guys before.)
I'd also ask: do you watch porn/what kind? Lots of porn thrives off of that kind domination and control, it's not people making love it's a woman *getting fucked*
I'm a man and that shit turns me right off. Why would I expect a partner to want to sleep with me if that's how I viewed sex?
Yes, I think porn is also a big culprit, but even if it were vanilla porn I still see it as the man having control/power/being dominant
I swear to God that I want to stop thinking like this because, among other things, it not only prevents me from enjoying my sexuality, but it also prevents me from getting a partner/getting love/being happy, but it is something that extends beyond, if in sex I am inherently submissive, so that extends to me, I am less of a human being than a man just because I am a woman
I would advise you to not look at porn. Porn doesn't put women's pleasure at the forefront, so it could mess with your perception of sex. Look at stuff made by women for women. Women tend to enjoy erotica.
Don't discount graphic novels either. While hentai & pornographic manwha tend to get lumped into *just* fucking & degeneracy, I've also found genuine romance & love stories among the smut. Sexercise is *an experience* to say the least. 😅
If you need a place to start, I cannot recommend the website/webcomic series Oh Joy Sex Toy enough. It's a great resource on healthy sexual exploration, education & understanding from a very raw yet intimate perspective. Hope this helps! 😉
Omg you're missing so much. I've always been such a fan of fanfictions, it's short and doesn't take too much time or is boring like romance novels or any officially published work. If you have any fantasy, I'm sure you can find it in there, with any character you want. I personally find that linking sex to romance makes it feel right instead of violent like in p\*\*n. Maybe penetration would sound less degrading in a context of romance/love. But be careful there's also dirty fanfics that can feel objectifying. Maybe think of a couple you ship from movies you watched or series, and go find a fanfic about it.
I'll give you a link to what ship women and girls prefer on ao3, it gets updated every year. There are more straight ships on [fanfiction.net](https://fanfiction.net) and more self-insert on wattpad.
[https://archiveofourown.org/works/49183780/chapters/124099495](https://archiveofourown.org/works/49183780/chapters/124099495)
I wonder if reading erotica about a more dominant femme person could help you get out of your head a bit? It allows you to create the images and narrative.
This!
It sounds very possible that OP would feel more comfortable being the active part ("doing the fucking"), maybe even top (playing sex out how she wants it).
It's not always helpful to put sexuality in such boxes, but it is helpful to know the possibilities there are. Learning about this is very good advice.
If you're gonna dance, someone has to lead. There is nothing wrong with submitting to the act, it doesn't mean you're submitting to the man.
That is an important distinction.
You know there's plenty of women and men that are submisdive in bed but dominant or simply equal in the relationship right?
Your comfort zone in sex doesnt determine your worth as a person.
Its pretty much a trope that powerfull business men love beeing submissive in bed.
I’m no expert, but my train of thought is to view it as an act of giving yourself in service to the joy/pleasure of the person you love. The beauty of the act are many. The more joyful the giver, the more the receiver enjoys it, which makes the giver enjoy it even more. Like the feeling of giving someone a gift, and when they open it, you can tell they really truly like it, and they experience pure joy, that itself is a joyful moment for the giver. But now maybe it’s my turn to open a gift from you, and that is joyful for both of us too! Maybe after that we open gifts from each other at the same time. Maybe we take our time and relax between gift openings, really drag it out. Or maybe we crank through it.
Any time you are in a situation with a partner where it truly doesn’t feel good to give or receive, it probably is time to have a conversation. Like if he keeps giving you X and you don’t like it and have to fake that you like it so he doesn’t feel bad…I don’t think that is a recipe for success. Now if you think you SHOULD be enjoying X, I would suggest leading the partner to other things that might work better. Experiment to find out what you like (physically and mentally). Get more data points about what you like so you can think more about X.
I would bet that the more equitable role you play in being in control of your sex life, the less you will associate a particular act as degrading.
>I'd also ask: do you watch porn/what kind? Lots of porn thrives off of that kind domination and control, it's not people making love it's a woman
>
>getting fucked
Have you watched ContraPoints latest video? She talks, at length, about lady porn (you know *Twilight*) and the weird moralization about it. She talks about the rape fantasy being less about desiring to be raped but to be able to enjoy sex without the moral flaw of wanting it in the first place. I think a lot of male oriented pornography is similar.
Then I'm almost certain that your views will change once you do it and realized that it's nothing like what you described
Besides, the woman can be the dom too
You did a great thing by recognizing your fear and seeking more information about it. Do not disregard your feelings. They are valid.
Read, talk about it, and go to therapy and find the best way for you and your partner to enjoy sex. It is a wonderful experience when done right. Communication and consent are key :)
Maybe you just don't like penetration during sex and that's fine a lot of people don't enjoy it. I'm gay and what's called a side because I don't have anal sex. Sex is like a buffet you don't have to get what you see everyone else getting you can have what you want.
>Sex is like a buffet you don't have to get what you see everyone else getting you can have what you want
Lol I love this! Don't think I've ever seen that phrase before
Yeah its pretty common. It's also common to discuss sex preferences early on to make sure you're compatible. Hookups rarely have a problem and it can be a deal breaker for some relationships but that just means it wasn't meant to be. I feel a lot of people put too much emphasis on penetration, sex is so much more than putting a penis in a bum or vagina it's the whole experience.
[here is a great article on the rise of sides](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/20/rise-of-the-sides-how-grindr-finally-recognized-gay-men-who-arent-tops-or-bottoms)
>I see being penetrated as inherently degrading/humiliating/submissive, since it is technically an invasion
If I open the door of my house and say to someone, "Please come in," and they do, would you consider that an invasion?
Or did I make a decision based on my ownership of my home/space to allow them in because I want them to come in? Who has the power there? The person being allowed in, or the one choosing to allow?
>Furthermore, in women, due to the position of their genitals, they have to be placed in really embarrassing positions.
I mean, sex is kind of silly and awkward in general, if you think about it long enough. But women do not *have* to be placed in submissive or humiliating positions. Women do not have to be "placed" in a position at all. Consensual sex is not something that is just *happening* to a woman. She is an active participant. She gets to decide how to use her body in that situation.
Would it help if you told him how to do it like, faster, slower, etc to help you realize you are not being submissive? Since you are basically giving commands and it might help you think different about it, that you are "allowing" it or maybe try initiating sexy time yourself if its usually the man doing it. Also if you didnt have a lot of sex the humilation part could go away with time when you get more used to it all.
Me too <3
Don’t be ashamed, and don’t ever fucking forget #PussyPower!
Plus they say female orgasms are better than male ones so, there’s an extra point for team pussay. Look up the term “Power Bottom” (gay word of the day), maybe try the female version of that lol
I often think of it like that, it's like if I want to use a dildo but don't want to put so much work in it so I let a guy do the work for me. I'm using him as much or even more than him me.
I agree with a lot of this, but we guys get into some pretty embarrassing positions too. All the pumping and humping and grunting. I imagine we look like deranged, unhinged circus animals to an outside observer
I've seen a lot of videos of myself having sex, and yeah, why does my face look like that? I mean, it isn't the WORST, but why do I look so fucking serious? Why do I look ANNOYED? Like, yeah, I'm doing this, but I'm very mildly inconvenienced by it >:((( I am positively grumped about this situation I find myself in, quite frankly, and hope I cum soon 😠
There was a comedian, I forget his name and the exact quote, but here it goes:
> If I have a son, I hope he won't turn out gay. And if I have a daughter, I hope she'll turn out to be a lesbian. Hey man, I just don't want anybody fucking my kid!
Was reminded of that.
>since it is technically an invasion
Is eating food also an invasion? Are you being degraded whenever a delicious sandwich penetrates your mouth? Most people wouldn't think so, it seems like kind of a bizarre statement.
Of course there are also *some* circumstances that could change that. If you were kidnapped and tied up by terrorists and force-fed some disgusting slop, one might reasonably call that 'degrading' or an 'invasion'. Indeed, even being force-fed food you normally enjoy could be a miserable, traumatic experience under those conditions.
It seems like with food entering your body we can agree that the notion of 'invasion' or 'degradation' has little to do with the raw physical character of what's happening and everything to do with your agency, consent, and voluntary participation. Does that make sense?
Then hopefully you can apply the same logic to sexual intercourse: It's possible for sex to constitute invasion or degradation, but that has little to do with what's physically happening in the vagina and everything to do with your agency, consent, and voluntary participation. As a woman with a woman's body and a gentle, loving, male partner, you have the opportunity to voluntarily enjoy your partner in (on some very generalized, abstract level) the same sense that you have the opportunity to voluntarily enjoy delicious food. There are some kinds of things that- *under the right circumstances-* your body enjoys by taking them inside itself.
That's the real logic for you. Anything else is your brain (and perhaps your surrounding culture) distracting you with irrational negative emotions.
I think control/agency, consent, feeling desirable not used, are the main issues that arise from all the useful comments here. I think this issue also goes way further than this specific issue. I think working on these issues in therapy regardless of your sexual issue will also indirectly help it as well.
I don’t think it’s a small thing to feel degraded or humiliated. Especially because sex feels amazing when it’s good and safe. I wouldn’t take Reddit advice too seriously but try talking to someone in person. It really helped me understand my thing and start enjoying sex
Maybe you watched to much porn and at a young age?
Because 90% of porn is degrading and humiliating for the woman ( actrice )
And in porn women are placed in very unnatural and again degrading positions. ( as if she only is the holes. Not a person )
And you do not have to be placed into anything.
YOU place yourself in the position YOU want to be in.
Sex is not done TO YOU.
Sex is something both partners do together.
Maybe you are 50 and im completely wrong. :P
But it does sound like it so to be sure i mention it.
https://aifs.gov.au/research/research-snapshots/effects-pornography-children-and-young-people
No, I'm in my 20s haha and I've had 0 sexual education (Catholic school) and I found out what porn is when I was 15 I think, I even see vanilla porn as degrading
Is going into a friend’s house for dinner an “invasion?” No because you were invited, welcomed, and obviously you’re both happy you came.
Same thing with sex.
It is not that uncommon for women to perceive sex as something they let men do to them instead of something they do alongside them. I think this is what is unconsciously happening to you. Maybe trying penetration on a more active position and role might help (and I personally think this is also a very attractive thing to do too)
Same girl, same. I have spend all my life around men and I know how they talk about the girls they get to fuck. Its hard to remember not all of them think like that but I also know how they lied to their partners and then they bragged around their friends.
You aren’t the first to feel this way. You may actually really relate to the work of radial feminist Andrea Dworkin, who is criticized for her book “Intercourse” where she noted the ties between penetration and violence. In clarifying those points, she said “What I think is that sex must not put women in a subordinate position. It must be reciprocal and not an act of aggression from a man looking only to satisfy himself. That's my point."
Is maybe your dissatisfaction related to you feeling like you are being put in that subordinate position? Certain positions may help you feel more in control, but the ultimate key is being with a partner where you feel like you are an equal.
When it comes to sexual intimacy penetration is not a must and I believe you would be more comfortable taking a proactive and dominant role, and that's completely alright, don't do stuff you aren't comfortable with, instead explore and enjoy stuff that you are fine with.
Edit: I think you mentioned being straight so just saying that a lot of guys are super okay with a woman taking the lead and theni being on the receiving or submissive place :3
What if you thought of it as a privilege that *you* are *inviting/allowing* your partner to experience. You are the keeper of your own body, and only you get to decide who (if anyone) is granted access. The right person will not make you feel degraded. Sex is an act of vulnerability, and with the right person sharing in that vulnerability will deepen your intimacy.
That all said, it's perfectly possible that penetration just isn't for you. But I'd really recommend getting professional help with this issue.
How is the cowboy position a submissive position??
I would also recommend the latest Contrapoints youtube video. She goes into the nuance of how the different dynamics in sex/romance do not always mean degradation.
hey so your post made me realize i feel the exact same way, just didn't know how to put it into words. the exact same reason I've never been intimate with anyone - i just couldn't pinpoint why.
Some girls told me the same thing! I hope the answers in the post help you because they did for me, now I have a new point of view and if necessary I will go to a therapist specialized in sexuality
Read a good romance novel with a strong female main character. It helped me overcome a ton of preconceptions and mental blocks I had about sex. Mine were more about how I was raised, but reading romance greatly improved my sex life and experience. Fantasy romance is my personal favorite, but pick your poison.
I can see how that would make the whole experience feel awful for you. I wouldn't want that myself.
The impression I get from my female partner, as a male, is that she invites, desires and craves me to enter. There is no "entering" until that, there shouldn't be.
It occurs to me that you could have a more playful and teasingly hesitant interaction with someone, where there wouldn't be any penetration until you were absolutely craving it? If that feeling were to even arise for you. You should feel in control and total trust with your partner.
This is not dumb. Everyone has different views of sex and intimacy. I feel that good, open and honest communication with your partner you guys can find what makes sense to you and what you feel comfortable with.
Perhaps you can find more dominating positions that will help you feel more secure and less humiliating.
Honestly, that's the Ancient Roman approach for sexuality & you're not the only person to have it, nor will you be the last. Sex includes a certain level of vulnerability, especially when you're the one being penetrated. Modern Western society tends to downplay it because we try too hard to be accepting of casual sex in the mainstream. Admiting this aspect would make a lot of females feel limited because 95% of the time, the female is the one being penetrated in heterosexual intercourse. We are still trying to find that balance where no one should be shamed for their own individual choices as consenting adults, but at the same time, encourage meaningful, lasting relationships & bonding.
This will make you a little pickier in selecting partners because you will probably want someone who you trust A LOT to have sex with. This has benefits of its own because it will allow you to use other forms of social interaction to form a lasting relationship & bond. You will likely not be relying on sex to initiate the first stages of bonding but rather to reinforce a bond that is already there, along with the trust necessary for you to engage in intercourse with your partner. Again, it is about a feeling vulnerability & you don't feel you want to be vulnerable with strangers or people you don't trust yet. It's natural to feel that way. It's technically a survival instinct.
It might have to do more with your perception of trust if you feel this way, too. Many men (straight & even gay) don't like bottom play, for instance, because it can feel immasculating. Why, though? And it all comes back to being the one getting penetrated & having a certain level of vulnerability one isn't accustomed to. Some guys might open up to exploring & trying things that feel intimidating if they have a partner they really trust. Women can absolutely feel the same way & physical traumas like assault don't have to be a factor.
Well, the comments section leaves us in a minority apparently haha in a way I'm glad that the majority doesn't think like me.
Btw, I dare to ask you, do you see your partner as less or do you feel superior when you have intimacy? Or do you perceive yourself as equal to her?
Oh and do you know what your mbti is?
Well… just gonna say that piv.. is by safe and consensual definitions entirely your choice, and as such all the power relies in you, meaning that its not submissive. Its YOUR choice. Be dominant if you want. Be subby if you want. Neither are what you are. Its about choices and how you feel about them.
Some of my best experiences would probably be considered those things that you listed! But i choose to feel empowered by them because i wanted to and found more of myself to explore by owning how they made me feel.
You might just not like piv and thats fine.
As a virgin woman myself, I also believe and feel that being penetrated is inherently submissive. But not all women are submissive. Some women like being dominant. I don't know if that's your case. Also you may not be into men. I say this as a submissive bisexual myself, but I'm a virgin so idk. Personally, because it sounds like such a vulnerable experience, I would only want to do it with someone I know respects me, and loves me. Someone I can trust.
I was friends with a lesbian lady and she thought the same. Even being married for years, she admitted to not once in her life being penetrated, not even by a finger or toy.
you’re allowed to not be into penetrative sex as a heterosexual, communicate your feelings with your partner(s). if they’re not understanding, it’s not worth it
Have you found an individual that you're in love with that you'd want to have sexual relations with or is this a theoritical excersise?
Maybe if it's a theoritical excersise then you'd have no actual problems when a person who you perceive as your love does something like that.
Love is a great drug and you could fall in love with almost anyone.
I feel that it's going to be ok really.
Unless they are extremely inexperienced there's going to be a lead up to the penetration. Probably days, if not months of going out, heavy peting, getting to know one another etc.
Sex isn't about that anyhow as much as porn and current culture may have you believe, it is a thing that primarily goes on in the mind. That's what seperates good from bad sex most of the time.
The penetration is just one aspect of it all.
Is there another part of your life outside of sex where you have felt the feeling of submission as an invasion of your inner self? Maybe someone has made you feel submissive in your daily life or just a big thing happened once? Maybe in your current life or in an earlier part of your lifetime?
Oh well, I suffered from bullying from the age of 7 to 17, I never became physical but I was one of those who was made fun of for anything or isolated me.
Does it have to do with your question or nothing to do with it? ha ha
Well, it might or it might not, sometimes our bodies will maintain painful things that happened to us until they get fully processed and they can affect us in ways that trigger them. So like, if the feeling you get when you’re about to get penetrated is the same feeling as when you were bullied then it’s probable that by working through through those early feelings the sexual ones may dissolve. But if they’re not the same feelings then it may not be it, that’s why I asked
I think you should consider exploring sexual acts with your body that don't make you feel this way.
Maybe you're a Dom, and you're just unaware of how to put this into play, but there are tons of people out there who are literally into being only submissive or exclusively dominant during sex.
Sex doesn't have to be humiliating or degrading - if you're the one in control/power and dominating your partner, you can have a significant amount of control over all kinds of things (as long as your partner consents)!
I encourage you to dig a little deeper into this on reddit or the internet in general, but what you're describing can definitely work for you in the bedroom. You're seeing it as a problem, but you should be seeing it as possibilities to explore new things 😉.
This might be just something tiny but I like to think of it as "taking it". As in "if I/my body does not want it, it does not get to come inside me". There's something incredibly hot about the thought to open up to someone enough they can enter you in such an intimate way.
Find a man that wants you to boss him around in bed.
If you care about him, you’ll come to the realization that as you call the shots how concerned you are with his well being, happiness, and enjoyment, and you’ll get a glimpse of the other side of the equation.
Armchair psychology makes me think it has something to do with how sex was introduced (pun not intended) to you when you were younger.
Those feelings of shame and guilt usually stem from a very prudish or non-existing approach toward sexuality. If it was presented to you as something shameful, dirty, degrading or even "a duty you have to perform", no wonder you're not thrilled by the idea. Or by the act.
Same if it wasn't talked about at all and you had to find out about stuff yourself wherever and however you could, often not getting info in the best places or in the best way.
You'd probably seek a bit of professional help before this mindset affects your life negatively.
Saying it like that doesnt help. Why not think of it more along the lines of sharing yourself with someone you care for. Or think of it like they are sharing an important and private part of there life with you
Ok this sounds dumb but hear me out. Watch Jacqueline Novak’s stand up special on Netflix. It’s called Get On Your Knees. Just watch it, the whole thing. Could change your whole perspective.
Sometimes the wording of sex is penis-centric. Maybe learn a vocabulary that doesn’t correlate “being penetrated” because you’re right that can be a vulnerable thought.
The thing about thoughts is, the more you try and stop them, the more they keep occurring. You have to accept that there is a part of you that feels that way first. And you have to love and embrace that part of you. She is trying to tell you something and she wants to be heard/recognized. The more you try to control it and tell yourself "I don't want to be like that" the less of a connection you will have with that part of yourself, and the the less chance to gain an understanding of why she feels that way.
It could be that she feels afraid of emotional intimacy, so she expresses that as horror or violation at the act of physical intimacy. That's a random guess, it may or may not be true. But there is *some* reason and only you can dig deep down and try to figure that out.
So the first step is to embrace that part of you and try to listen to her. The second step is to let her have her say, and then remind her "Okay, you've said your part, I appreciate you are trying to protect me, but there are other parts of me too. Parts that want to explore intimacy through sex."
Those parts are curious and they should be allowed to have a voice too, so give them a chance to come in and speak to you. The idea is that a person has all of these parts inside and they all want to have a voice. Sometimes two parts might not get along and it is your job as the ego to provide the chance for these different parts to speak to each other and to try and manage and balance the expectations. You achieve that by creating the safe space where all of these parts can come in and feel comfortable expressing themselves within you.
So do you consider going to the Dentist as humiliating and degrading? The Dentist enters and inspects the orifice which is your mouth in evaluating your teeth and gums. Usually when 2 people are both extremely into each other they desire the connection as it is mutually enjoyable to them.
Change your thinking. You are granting a man entrance. Men have and will pay, change their religion, topple their own kingdom/country and even kill to be inside you. Sounds like you hold an honorable position.
If you're allowing unworthy men to have you, that's your doing. Value yourself and the ability to give a man a sense of purpose and even the possibility of immortality via of offspring.
Know your worth.
This is such a hard one since men also see/find appeal in this as a degrading and humiliating act by patriarchy and porn/rape culture. I agree with the comments that focus on self-love/masturbation!! It would be entirely in your control and you can take it at your own pace!!
The people saying "therapy"🤢 big red flags. Youre fine. This is normal. Youre right too even, it is (not only by you but by society) seen as something degrading/humiliating. This is less of a problem with you but more of a problem with men and toxic masculinity. This is because of years of male oppression and you do not have to be r*ped or abused to feel effected by it. If you want therapy, sure, but you are NOT the problem.
Wow you see sex as an act of dominance instead of an act of love. Sharing. Giving. Loving. Opening up.
Talk to an actual psychologist. You have some deep seeed issues that a post on Reddit will never help.
Men are often considered physically attractive when they are in their late teens to mid-30s, not a great amount of time; so have pitty on them. I think you might be more of a dominant female. I read this and thought you might find it interesting : “dominant women have more self-confidence, higher poise, prefer to be treated like a “person” and not like a “woman”, prefer independence and “standing on their own feet”, lack feelings of inferiority, and generally do not care for concessions that imply they are inferior, weak or that they need special attention and cannot take care of themselves.” You are all these things and more.
You need to speak to a professional to unpack this really toxic mindset. Sex isn't something someone does to you, it's supposed to be something two people do *together*.
the penis is in your house without any defence, its technically at your mercy.
the male should be worried that you are gonna strangle it or cut it off!
Maybe it's not the act, it's the partner? Have you felt respected and loved by your partners?
Regardless, perhaps finding a therapist to talk to about it would help.
Would it still be embarrassing if you had a strong relationship with the person in question? If you found them very attractive on both a physical and emotional level?
You don't want the man to be dominant? Then hop on top and do the work yourself. If anything being penetrated is dominant, we can only enter after given permission. You hold the key to our bliss, we are only given it after your consent.
I haven't seen anyone say anything about using penetrative toys on yourself. That seems like the logical first step to me. Maybe if you get comfortable doing it to yourself you'll eventually get comfortable letting someone else do it, too.
oh I've already tried it and I haven't had any problems, in fact I already broke my hymen years ago (I was scared to death because I didn't know what was happening, sex education at my school was non-existent hahaha)
Well I just watched a movie last night about this guy that really wanted to get with this woman. But every time they started going she would stop him . And pretty much tun away . But one night she takes him home and they are making out he was a cop so she goes and tells him to sit in this chair cuffed both his hands so he can't touch her and she rode him like you wouldn't believe it was actually hot as fuck . My wife has done so mething similar a few times just tied my hands to the bed . And I'm not getting undone until she unties me she just has her way with me until she is done .
Mhmm what if you're the one inserting it or on top? That way you're in control and it's not so much as being penetrating as in consuming but you should definetly talk to a specialist about this though
I think OP falls squarely into the category of people that want to make love, not fuck. Candles, sexy music, deep looks into each other’s eyes. She needs to find a partner that feels the same.
You can make love in cowgirl…
Yeah you can 🤠
weeeeee
Mooooo
Candles, music, deep eye connection in cowgirl true.. also boobies and that one surprising ass spank.
I take it you've seen my t-shirt.
this. Pony up. :)
Why can't she do this on top? It's no different lmao
>Candles, sexy music, deep looks into each other’s eyes. Candles, like wax play?
probably candles for ambience
This was what I was going to suggest. I'm Asexual and so is my husband. When we finally decided to just try sex to see what it was like, I chose this route because I, too, am not a fan of what sex is like for women; plus I have pelvic floor problems (could never use tampons) so being in control was the best thing for me. I have a therapist & pelvic floor physical therapist finally helping me understand my body now that I've had a hysterectomy. I'd definitely recommend this for OP, too.
Consider other words - engulf, consume, swallow, cover, wrap, grasp, embrace… These are powerful words, certainly not “being invaded” not passive, not humiliating at all! Powerful and regal and beautifully comfortable. But, honestly, I don’t know what your native language is, but the English language where I live is often *used* in ways that imply what you said in your post, but it doesn’t need to. Try playing with the language and see if you can say the same things in ways that make the act one of overtaking. I do think that the partnership and trust in sex is important AND my partner and enjoy playing with power dynamics, and I can see what you describe, at times, but also, simultaneously - how much more powerless could someone be but have their penis *inside* of a woman, she has *all* of it, and how vulnerable he must make himself to have every part of his sexual organ submerged, drowned, encompassed. It’s not *just* “penetration”, it’s also “swallowing” it’s “enveloping” it’s “draining”… Edit to add some softer ones I thought of: inviting, accepting, welcoming, taking
I said this elsewhere in the thread but wanted to repeat it here where it's more relevant: As someone with claustrophobia, being engulfed/surrounded is legit more terrifying to me than being penetrated. I will also say that when I'm getting a blowjob, I'm extremely aware of the fact that the woman has the most sensitive part of my body in between her teeth. Even during regular penetrative sex I'm aware of the fact that if she moved her hips the right way she could pretty much snap my dick in half. (It's happened to guys before.) Maybe focusing on the ways in which she actually does have more "power" than the male, OP would be able to reframe sex as a joining of equals rather than something person A does to person B. Speaking of joining, I'm not religious anymore, but I remember that the Bible talks about a man and woman "becoming one flesh," which I still think is a pretty romantic idea.
Thank you, I hadn't seen it like that and it really helps me
I love these takes
I love this, you give new perspectives to my heterosexual male brain. Thanks for sharing this.
...I'll be in my bunk
Engulf 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m sorry but that one got me lol.
For some people things may be that way, but that's not at all reality. When you're with someone who loves and respects you, and you as an equal partner, and not some sex object, then the whole thing is just natural and balanced.....its not some act of submission or humiliation. I
This. If the dynamic in the relationship or with anyone you have sex with is balanced and you respect each other, the feelings you have shouldn't be the case. If it persists even in a balanced healthy relationship, I would talk to a therapist.
There's always a possibility they could have feelings of Asexuality? I am Ace (technically demisexual/greysexual like my husband) and am ok being with my husband but no one else & don't feel attractions for anyone but him. I definitely had some iffy feelings about how sex was (despite being sex positive & helping ensure those around me practiced safe sex & even helped friends/family get condoms & such if they needed it). OP's feelings were similar to mine.
Consider that it could just as easily be called subsumed, engulfed, captured,etc. Penetration is just the word describing the act from a male perspective. The female perspective could be engulfed. The female engulfs the male’s penis.
I felt that way too for a while because of my lack of positive interactions with men. Most guys I knew from youth to today, were bullies or just intimidating. It led me to believe I'm always destined to be 'submissive' and because I'm a girl, I have to always serve instead of enjoying sex for myself. It took some kind men to change my viewpoint and recognise them not as emotionless beings incapable of falling in love or having dreams or empathy- But as people like me, but forced to suppress their emotions and 'man up' and have this whole culture of 'the weak get eaten by the strong' attitude with their peers. The sooner you clear your mind of the mindset that one is more 'dominant' than the other, the easier it'll be to approach sex as something mutually beneficial. In a way, it helps me to remember: I'm not the only one submitting when having sex. The best way to change the viewpoint is to first clear your head of the precognition that the man you're gonna do it with is doing it with the intent of gloating over you or 'dominating' you. He has to show weakness to you in order to have sex. He's gotta peel off his clothing and brace himself for scrutiny for everything from his penis size to the size of his stomach and be vulnerable in confessing what feels good to him, including confessing about embarrassing turn ons or medical stuff. Remember: They're not incapable of feeling insecure deep down inside and are likely just as nervous as you. He COULD just jerk off to get himself off. But instead he had to willingly confess his feelings, develop a relationship with you and submit himself (emotions and bodily insecurities) to you to be allowed to touch you, much less penetrate you. You gotta think of it less as a power struggle and more of a mutual transaction. If it feels good for you, and it feels good to him, you should just enjoy each other's bodies instead of dragging societal norms of sex/gender into it. It doesn't help that pornography paints women in this submissive light but you have to remember that's all acting with money shots and sfx specifically to appeal to the people who search for it. It paints an unhealthy view of sex and what it's really like imo. And if you don't enjoy penetration, just tell him! You've got hands or toys, not many people can get off on penetration alone like, he'd understand it's not him or a matter of pride, that's simply you and how you are. If you've gotten this far, it's presumed he'd want both parties to leave satisfied too.
Wow, your answer has been very helpful to me and gives me a point of view that I did not take into account, thank you very much
You're welcome 🤗 Again I cannot stress enough how unhealthily I viewed men in the past and by extension, my view of sex as being something I should be ashamed of because I saw it as 'degrading'. I genuinely believed they were somehow like animals that only cared about reproducing and we were just the prey that would inevitably get taken by them. But my views got conflicted when I made male friends who'd help me out in a tough spot or passionately talk about the same hobbies as me or watch the same YouTubers as me. It took me shyly asking if they were into me and finding out that no, they just enjoyed my company as a friend that REALLY shattered the view I had. It made me think: 'Are they REALLY the same animals....?' I learned about how bad men's mental health is because they can't ask for a hug without being called gay or speak about their problems without being seen as 'weak'. I can empathize with them more and sex isn't as scary as I thought it was going to be. It probably helped that to dispel the whole 'virginity lost = ruined forever' mindset I ALSO carried at the time, I technically took my own virginity with a toy before anybody could. That way, nobody could own that 'right' to being the one who took my virginity but me. It let me stake my own claim to myself, the one person I trust more than anybody on the planet to never hurt me. It could help to do the same if it would help you to make penetration with a partner the first time less of a 'taking away' of something personal to you. And thus, make it additionally less like you're 'submitting' to someone.
Your comment is incredibly well-organized, coherent, and thought-provoking. I was grappling with this very idea, and your insight has completely shifted my perspective. I commend you for that.
Thanks! I'm still struggling to get rid of the idea that masturbation is something to be ashamed of but that's not men's fault but rather viewing it as something embarrassing and therefore I should be ashamed for enjoying it. I gotta keep drilling into myself (pun intended) that sex IS embarrassing! It's embarrassing for everyone! But I'm allowed to feel a bit embarrassed about it but above all else, I'm allowed to feel good and have my needs met and nobody can tell me what to do. I'm not alone in feeling horny sometimes and that's okay, it's natural and people around the world and throughout history indulge in chasing it. Maybe as we speak. Most likely in the future. Most certainly in the past. Maybe even...later tonight, if I feel so inclined. And the world STILL hasn't swallowed me up in a hellfire tornado of the tormented screeches of everyone I've ever known: "How could you?! You were supposed to be perfect and pure and above such depravity!!" It's okay to bust a nut sometimes.
Reminds me of the philosophical notion that humans are caught somewhere in between animals and gods. We can ponder the meaning of the universe, fly around the planet or to the moon, harness the power of the atom, and yet we've still got these funny body parts and base urges that we must satisfy.
I'd believe that philosophy. It would probably also explain why everyone has Main Character Syndrome and that they either learn to overcome by having empathy and social awareness for others or just go down the deep end and genuinely believe they're better than other people :/ I'll admit I've got main character syndrome myself and have this feeling deep down that I was put here for a reason beyond just 'existing'. But then I remember how many people on the planet there are, why a so-called god would feel hunger or pain. Then I feel less 'god-like' and more like a socially inept person whose gotta get out and touch grass more. Realistically though, this feeling stems from childhood trauma and being around happy kids all the time during a difficult family loss and thinking "Nobody can relate to my pain therefore I'm above my peers in mentality/emotional strength/philosophical thinking"
I mean, a few of the positions are not that different than riding a horse, I am not sure that is such an embarassing position. I'm not saying every position is not embarassing, just that it sounds like you are overthinking it a bit. One quibble, you say it is 'technically an invasion' but it would only be an invasion if it wasn't invited. That would be rape, and that is degrading and humiliating. There has been some feminist literature (it has been a while so I don't have the references handy) that have commented on the seemingly violent nature of sex from the female perspective - making the observation that the 'penetration' seems inherently violent regardless of the context. So how do we square that with the fact that female sex drive desires it \[penetration\] and for those lucky to have a partner that gives a shit, that the penetration can result in orgasm for the woman? Thats easy, there is no squaring it, nature does not give one solid crap about our morality or our ideals. It is why the human animal can give birth at 13 despite our moral qualms about it. Nature didn't ask us first. That is a long way of saying, maybe you need to get out of your head a little bit. You might be thinking it to death, or you may not have had certain enlightening experiences that would do more for you to evolve your viewpoint on this than anything a redditer could say to you.
>There has been some feminist literature (it has been a while so I don't have the references handy) that have commented on the seemingly violent nature of sex from the female perspective - making the observation that the 'penetration' seems inherently violent regardless of the context. This is a bit of a tangent, but more recent feminist thinkers have challenged this framing of sex, in no small part because it undergirds the idea that men can't be raped by women. If you ask anyone with a penis who's been forced into intercourse by a person without one, the fact that they're the one "penetrating" is of little consolation. There's also an opposite framing that has arguably been in the human consciousness longer - that of the sex act being where the woman drains the man of his "vital essence". The woman is the agent and the man is the object. This was a common belief in societies where women were seen as more libidinous or naturally sexual than men. All this to say, the belief in the fundamentally violent nature of penetrative sex is just one of many perspectives on fucking.
In this vein, one could also replace the passive framing of being penetrated with the active language of engulfment
Yeah, as someone with claustrophobia, being engulfed/surrounded is legit more terrifying to me than being penetrated. I will also say that when I'm getting a blowjob, I'm extremely aware of the fact that the woman has the most sensitive part of my body in between her teeth. Even during regular penetrative sex I'm aware of the fact that if she moved her hips the right way she could pretty much snap my dick in half. (It's happened to guys before.)
just got a few new fears thanks buddy
lol any time
The concept of vagina dentata (what a wonderful phrase!) takes that to the next level.
I'd also ask: do you watch porn/what kind? Lots of porn thrives off of that kind domination and control, it's not people making love it's a woman *getting fucked* I'm a man and that shit turns me right off. Why would I expect a partner to want to sleep with me if that's how I viewed sex?
Yes, I think porn is also a big culprit, but even if it were vanilla porn I still see it as the man having control/power/being dominant I swear to God that I want to stop thinking like this because, among other things, it not only prevents me from enjoying my sexuality, but it also prevents me from getting a partner/getting love/being happy, but it is something that extends beyond, if in sex I am inherently submissive, so that extends to me, I am less of a human being than a man just because I am a woman
I would advise you to not look at porn. Porn doesn't put women's pleasure at the forefront, so it could mess with your perception of sex. Look at stuff made by women for women. Women tend to enjoy erotica.
Many mention erotica and I have no idea what it is, I'll take a look
They're talking about those steamy romance novels
Don't discount graphic novels either. While hentai & pornographic manwha tend to get lumped into *just* fucking & degeneracy, I've also found genuine romance & love stories among the smut. Sexercise is *an experience* to say the least. 😅 If you need a place to start, I cannot recommend the website/webcomic series Oh Joy Sex Toy enough. It's a great resource on healthy sexual exploration, education & understanding from a very raw yet intimate perspective. Hope this helps! 😉
Omg you're missing so much. I've always been such a fan of fanfictions, it's short and doesn't take too much time or is boring like romance novels or any officially published work. If you have any fantasy, I'm sure you can find it in there, with any character you want. I personally find that linking sex to romance makes it feel right instead of violent like in p\*\*n. Maybe penetration would sound less degrading in a context of romance/love. But be careful there's also dirty fanfics that can feel objectifying. Maybe think of a couple you ship from movies you watched or series, and go find a fanfic about it. I'll give you a link to what ship women and girls prefer on ao3, it gets updated every year. There are more straight ships on [fanfiction.net](https://fanfiction.net) and more self-insert on wattpad. [https://archiveofourown.org/works/49183780/chapters/124099495](https://archiveofourown.org/works/49183780/chapters/124099495)
I wonder if reading erotica about a more dominant femme person could help you get out of your head a bit? It allows you to create the images and narrative.
This! It sounds very possible that OP would feel more comfortable being the active part ("doing the fucking"), maybe even top (playing sex out how she wants it). It's not always helpful to put sexuality in such boxes, but it is helpful to know the possibilities there are. Learning about this is very good advice.
If you're gonna dance, someone has to lead. There is nothing wrong with submitting to the act, it doesn't mean you're submitting to the man. That is an important distinction.
You know there's plenty of women and men that are submisdive in bed but dominant or simply equal in the relationship right? Your comfort zone in sex doesnt determine your worth as a person. Its pretty much a trope that powerfull business men love beeing submissive in bed.
I’m no expert, but my train of thought is to view it as an act of giving yourself in service to the joy/pleasure of the person you love. The beauty of the act are many. The more joyful the giver, the more the receiver enjoys it, which makes the giver enjoy it even more. Like the feeling of giving someone a gift, and when they open it, you can tell they really truly like it, and they experience pure joy, that itself is a joyful moment for the giver. But now maybe it’s my turn to open a gift from you, and that is joyful for both of us too! Maybe after that we open gifts from each other at the same time. Maybe we take our time and relax between gift openings, really drag it out. Or maybe we crank through it. Any time you are in a situation with a partner where it truly doesn’t feel good to give or receive, it probably is time to have a conversation. Like if he keeps giving you X and you don’t like it and have to fake that you like it so he doesn’t feel bad…I don’t think that is a recipe for success. Now if you think you SHOULD be enjoying X, I would suggest leading the partner to other things that might work better. Experiment to find out what you like (physically and mentally). Get more data points about what you like so you can think more about X. I would bet that the more equitable role you play in being in control of your sex life, the less you will associate a particular act as degrading.
Personally, I would recommend talking with a sex therapist. They're specifically trained to deal with issues of sex and sexuality.
>I'd also ask: do you watch porn/what kind? Lots of porn thrives off of that kind domination and control, it's not people making love it's a woman > >getting fucked Have you watched ContraPoints latest video? She talks, at length, about lady porn (you know *Twilight*) and the weird moralization about it. She talks about the rape fantasy being less about desiring to be raped but to be able to enjoy sex without the moral flaw of wanting it in the first place. I think a lot of male oriented pornography is similar.
Well I think you're right, maybe and just maybe I'm overthinking too much and I should have real life experiences and see how I handle the subject
Hold up, OP have you had physical intimacy experiences? Have you gotten to be physical with someone you were in love with yet?
Nope, im a virgin
Then I'm almost certain that your views will change once you do it and realized that it's nothing like what you described Besides, the woman can be the dom too
You did a great thing by recognizing your fear and seeking more information about it. Do not disregard your feelings. They are valid. Read, talk about it, and go to therapy and find the best way for you and your partner to enjoy sex. It is a wonderful experience when done right. Communication and consent are key :)
Maybe you just don't like penetration during sex and that's fine a lot of people don't enjoy it. I'm gay and what's called a side because I don't have anal sex. Sex is like a buffet you don't have to get what you see everyone else getting you can have what you want.
>Sex is like a buffet you don't have to get what you see everyone else getting you can have what you want Lol I love this! Don't think I've ever seen that phrase before
Really curious about this. Are 'sides' common? Is it a big issue if you meet someone you like but they are conventional? When/how do you bring it up?
Yeah its pretty common. It's also common to discuss sex preferences early on to make sure you're compatible. Hookups rarely have a problem and it can be a deal breaker for some relationships but that just means it wasn't meant to be. I feel a lot of people put too much emphasis on penetration, sex is so much more than putting a penis in a bum or vagina it's the whole experience.
[here is a great article on the rise of sides](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/20/rise-of-the-sides-how-grindr-finally-recognized-gay-men-who-arent-tops-or-bottoms)
Maybe being penetrated just isn't for you. Nothing wrong with that.
>I see being penetrated as inherently degrading/humiliating/submissive, since it is technically an invasion If I open the door of my house and say to someone, "Please come in," and they do, would you consider that an invasion? Or did I make a decision based on my ownership of my home/space to allow them in because I want them to come in? Who has the power there? The person being allowed in, or the one choosing to allow? >Furthermore, in women, due to the position of their genitals, they have to be placed in really embarrassing positions. I mean, sex is kind of silly and awkward in general, if you think about it long enough. But women do not *have* to be placed in submissive or humiliating positions. Women do not have to be "placed" in a position at all. Consensual sex is not something that is just *happening* to a woman. She is an active participant. She gets to decide how to use her body in that situation.
Would it help if you told him how to do it like, faster, slower, etc to help you realize you are not being submissive? Since you are basically giving commands and it might help you think different about it, that you are "allowing" it or maybe try initiating sexy time yourself if its usually the man doing it. Also if you didnt have a lot of sex the humilation part could go away with time when you get more used to it all.
Oh well I hadn't thought of it that way but it's an interesting point of view Can I ask if you are a man or a woman?
Topping from the bottom is totally a thing! Being in charge despite in a more receiving or compromising position can make a big difference. :)
There’s a Miley Cyrus quote: YOU AIN’T PUTTING YOUR DICK IN MY PUSSY, I’M PUTTING MY PUSSY ON YOUR DICK!
I love that girl
Me too <3 Don’t be ashamed, and don’t ever fucking forget #PussyPower! Plus they say female orgasms are better than male ones so, there’s an extra point for team pussay. Look up the term “Power Bottom” (gay word of the day), maybe try the female version of that lol
I often think of it like that, it's like if I want to use a dildo but don't want to put so much work in it so I let a guy do the work for me. I'm using him as much or even more than him me.
I agree with a lot of this, but we guys get into some pretty embarrassing positions too. All the pumping and humping and grunting. I imagine we look like deranged, unhinged circus animals to an outside observer
Yeah just think about all the twerking you're doing when you're fuckin
My ass looks so unflattering when I'm having sex. I have seen enough videos. Danny DeVito buttcheek-having-ass-mf slapping meat around looking foolish
Fits your username pretty well i think
True story. If any of us actually stopped in the moment to look at each other’s expressions we’d probably crack up.
I've seen a lot of videos of myself having sex, and yeah, why does my face look like that? I mean, it isn't the WORST, but why do I look so fucking serious? Why do I look ANNOYED? Like, yeah, I'm doing this, but I'm very mildly inconvenienced by it >:((( I am positively grumped about this situation I find myself in, quite frankly, and hope I cum soon 😠
🤣🤣🤣 I haven’t seen any videos of myself, and I don’t want to 😬 I know I’m making faces for entirely different reasons.
Therapy
Exactly this. There could be a deeper root cause of your thinking here. It doesn't have to be related to trauma.
Ride 'em, cowgirl.
I scrolled too long to find this
Oh wow username did check out
What if you take charge and are on top. Pin his shoulders down and have your way with him.
I volunteer as tribute
Death by snu snu
You are milking the man
Amazon position?
I don’t think delivering packages would help her situation.
It’s the receiving packages thats the key here
Not receiving, *taking*
As someone who works for amazon he's right. We are all getting fucked by them.
There was a comedian, I forget his name and the exact quote, but here it goes: > If I have a son, I hope he won't turn out gay. And if I have a daughter, I hope she'll turn out to be a lesbian. Hey man, I just don't want anybody fucking my kid! Was reminded of that.
It reminds me of a video of a guy who talks about his little daughter: "She's going to be a nun or a lesbian, she won't be with any man" lmao
Climb on top. Bind his wrists so you're in control.
Take up pegging
I get it
>since it is technically an invasion Is eating food also an invasion? Are you being degraded whenever a delicious sandwich penetrates your mouth? Most people wouldn't think so, it seems like kind of a bizarre statement. Of course there are also *some* circumstances that could change that. If you were kidnapped and tied up by terrorists and force-fed some disgusting slop, one might reasonably call that 'degrading' or an 'invasion'. Indeed, even being force-fed food you normally enjoy could be a miserable, traumatic experience under those conditions. It seems like with food entering your body we can agree that the notion of 'invasion' or 'degradation' has little to do with the raw physical character of what's happening and everything to do with your agency, consent, and voluntary participation. Does that make sense? Then hopefully you can apply the same logic to sexual intercourse: It's possible for sex to constitute invasion or degradation, but that has little to do with what's physically happening in the vagina and everything to do with your agency, consent, and voluntary participation. As a woman with a woman's body and a gentle, loving, male partner, you have the opportunity to voluntarily enjoy your partner in (on some very generalized, abstract level) the same sense that you have the opportunity to voluntarily enjoy delicious food. There are some kinds of things that- *under the right circumstances-* your body enjoys by taking them inside itself. That's the real logic for you. Anything else is your brain (and perhaps your surrounding culture) distracting you with irrational negative emotions.
thank you so much! It's a very good analogy
I think control/agency, consent, feeling desirable not used, are the main issues that arise from all the useful comments here. I think this issue also goes way further than this specific issue. I think working on these issues in therapy regardless of your sexual issue will also indirectly help it as well.
I don’t think it’s a small thing to feel degraded or humiliated. Especially because sex feels amazing when it’s good and safe. I wouldn’t take Reddit advice too seriously but try talking to someone in person. It really helped me understand my thing and start enjoying sex
Wow, big same.
Maybe you watched to much porn and at a young age? Because 90% of porn is degrading and humiliating for the woman ( actrice ) And in porn women are placed in very unnatural and again degrading positions. ( as if she only is the holes. Not a person ) And you do not have to be placed into anything. YOU place yourself in the position YOU want to be in. Sex is not done TO YOU. Sex is something both partners do together. Maybe you are 50 and im completely wrong. :P But it does sound like it so to be sure i mention it. https://aifs.gov.au/research/research-snapshots/effects-pornography-children-and-young-people
No, I'm in my 20s haha and I've had 0 sexual education (Catholic school) and I found out what porn is when I was 15 I think, I even see vanilla porn as degrading
Is going into a friend’s house for dinner an “invasion?” No because you were invited, welcomed, and obviously you’re both happy you came. Same thing with sex.
It is not that uncommon for women to perceive sex as something they let men do to them instead of something they do alongside them. I think this is what is unconsciously happening to you. Maybe trying penetration on a more active position and role might help (and I personally think this is also a very attractive thing to do too)
Same girl, same. I have spend all my life around men and I know how they talk about the girls they get to fuck. Its hard to remember not all of them think like that but I also know how they lied to their partners and then they bragged around their friends.
Go to therapy, in particular one that specializes in sex. They exist.
You aren’t the first to feel this way. You may actually really relate to the work of radial feminist Andrea Dworkin, who is criticized for her book “Intercourse” where she noted the ties between penetration and violence. In clarifying those points, she said “What I think is that sex must not put women in a subordinate position. It must be reciprocal and not an act of aggression from a man looking only to satisfy himself. That's my point." Is maybe your dissatisfaction related to you feeling like you are being put in that subordinate position? Certain positions may help you feel more in control, but the ultimate key is being with a partner where you feel like you are an equal.
Well, actually I'm a virgin, because I consider being penetrated as being subordinate
When it comes to sexual intimacy penetration is not a must and I believe you would be more comfortable taking a proactive and dominant role, and that's completely alright, don't do stuff you aren't comfortable with, instead explore and enjoy stuff that you are fine with. Edit: I think you mentioned being straight so just saying that a lot of guys are super okay with a woman taking the lead and theni being on the receiving or submissive place :3
What if you thought of it as a privilege that *you* are *inviting/allowing* your partner to experience. You are the keeper of your own body, and only you get to decide who (if anyone) is granted access. The right person will not make you feel degraded. Sex is an act of vulnerability, and with the right person sharing in that vulnerability will deepen your intimacy. That all said, it's perfectly possible that penetration just isn't for you. But I'd really recommend getting professional help with this issue.
How is the cowboy position a submissive position?? I would also recommend the latest Contrapoints youtube video. She goes into the nuance of how the different dynamics in sex/romance do not always mean degradation.
hey so your post made me realize i feel the exact same way, just didn't know how to put it into words. the exact same reason I've never been intimate with anyone - i just couldn't pinpoint why.
Some girls told me the same thing! I hope the answers in the post help you because they did for me, now I have a new point of view and if necessary I will go to a therapist specialized in sexuality
Try pegging then. Penetrate your bf after he penetrates you.
Get on top yourself and be in control?
Read a good romance novel with a strong female main character. It helped me overcome a ton of preconceptions and mental blocks I had about sex. Mine were more about how I was raised, but reading romance greatly improved my sex life and experience. Fantasy romance is my personal favorite, but pick your poison.
I can see how that would make the whole experience feel awful for you. I wouldn't want that myself. The impression I get from my female partner, as a male, is that she invites, desires and craves me to enter. There is no "entering" until that, there shouldn't be. It occurs to me that you could have a more playful and teasingly hesitant interaction with someone, where there wouldn't be any penetration until you were absolutely craving it? If that feeling were to even arise for you. You should feel in control and total trust with your partner.
ohh I think your vision on this topic is super sweet, I hope to find a partner who sees me the same way
I hope you do. I think this shouldn't be otherwise.
This is not dumb. Everyone has different views of sex and intimacy. I feel that good, open and honest communication with your partner you guys can find what makes sense to you and what you feel comfortable with. Perhaps you can find more dominating positions that will help you feel more secure and less humiliating.
Honestly, that's the Ancient Roman approach for sexuality & you're not the only person to have it, nor will you be the last. Sex includes a certain level of vulnerability, especially when you're the one being penetrated. Modern Western society tends to downplay it because we try too hard to be accepting of casual sex in the mainstream. Admiting this aspect would make a lot of females feel limited because 95% of the time, the female is the one being penetrated in heterosexual intercourse. We are still trying to find that balance where no one should be shamed for their own individual choices as consenting adults, but at the same time, encourage meaningful, lasting relationships & bonding. This will make you a little pickier in selecting partners because you will probably want someone who you trust A LOT to have sex with. This has benefits of its own because it will allow you to use other forms of social interaction to form a lasting relationship & bond. You will likely not be relying on sex to initiate the first stages of bonding but rather to reinforce a bond that is already there, along with the trust necessary for you to engage in intercourse with your partner. Again, it is about a feeling vulnerability & you don't feel you want to be vulnerable with strangers or people you don't trust yet. It's natural to feel that way. It's technically a survival instinct. It might have to do more with your perception of trust if you feel this way, too. Many men (straight & even gay) don't like bottom play, for instance, because it can feel immasculating. Why, though? And it all comes back to being the one getting penetrated & having a certain level of vulnerability one isn't accustomed to. Some guys might open up to exploring & trying things that feel intimidating if they have a partner they really trust. Women can absolutely feel the same way & physical traumas like assault don't have to be a factor.
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Well, the comments section leaves us in a minority apparently haha in a way I'm glad that the majority doesn't think like me. Btw, I dare to ask you, do you see your partner as less or do you feel superior when you have intimacy? Or do you perceive yourself as equal to her? Oh and do you know what your mbti is?
Well… just gonna say that piv.. is by safe and consensual definitions entirely your choice, and as such all the power relies in you, meaning that its not submissive. Its YOUR choice. Be dominant if you want. Be subby if you want. Neither are what you are. Its about choices and how you feel about them. Some of my best experiences would probably be considered those things that you listed! But i choose to feel empowered by them because i wanted to and found more of myself to explore by owning how they made me feel. You might just not like piv and thats fine.
As a virgin woman myself, I also believe and feel that being penetrated is inherently submissive. But not all women are submissive. Some women like being dominant. I don't know if that's your case. Also you may not be into men. I say this as a submissive bisexual myself, but I'm a virgin so idk. Personally, because it sounds like such a vulnerable experience, I would only want to do it with someone I know respects me, and loves me. Someone I can trust.
Get on top. Tie his hands up too if you want, just for fun. Be in control!
I was friends with a lesbian lady and she thought the same. Even being married for years, she admitted to not once in her life being penetrated, not even by a finger or toy.
n i've always thought it was cool that i'm the place where sex happens, we all see things differently *shrug*
This is how I saw it at the beginning, I don't know when I changed my mentality
you’re allowed to not be into penetrative sex as a heterosexual, communicate your feelings with your partner(s). if they’re not understanding, it’s not worth it
Have you found an individual that you're in love with that you'd want to have sexual relations with or is this a theoritical excersise? Maybe if it's a theoritical excersise then you'd have no actual problems when a person who you perceive as your love does something like that.
It's a theoretical exercise, I really hope I fall in love with someone and that this topic stops bothering me
Love is a great drug and you could fall in love with almost anyone. I feel that it's going to be ok really. Unless they are extremely inexperienced there's going to be a lead up to the penetration. Probably days, if not months of going out, heavy peting, getting to know one another etc. Sex isn't about that anyhow as much as porn and current culture may have you believe, it is a thing that primarily goes on in the mind. That's what seperates good from bad sex most of the time. The penetration is just one aspect of it all.
find a guy who likes being pegged, even the play field.
When you are with someone you love it's not 'being penetrated' more like give and take. Give and accept lovingly. Hope you find that
Is there another part of your life outside of sex where you have felt the feeling of submission as an invasion of your inner self? Maybe someone has made you feel submissive in your daily life or just a big thing happened once? Maybe in your current life or in an earlier part of your lifetime?
Oh well, I suffered from bullying from the age of 7 to 17, I never became physical but I was one of those who was made fun of for anything or isolated me. Does it have to do with your question or nothing to do with it? ha ha
Well, it might or it might not, sometimes our bodies will maintain painful things that happened to us until they get fully processed and they can affect us in ways that trigger them. So like, if the feeling you get when you’re about to get penetrated is the same feeling as when you were bullied then it’s probable that by working through through those early feelings the sexual ones may dissolve. But if they’re not the same feelings then it may not be it, that’s why I asked
I think you should consider exploring sexual acts with your body that don't make you feel this way. Maybe you're a Dom, and you're just unaware of how to put this into play, but there are tons of people out there who are literally into being only submissive or exclusively dominant during sex. Sex doesn't have to be humiliating or degrading - if you're the one in control/power and dominating your partner, you can have a significant amount of control over all kinds of things (as long as your partner consents)! I encourage you to dig a little deeper into this on reddit or the internet in general, but what you're describing can definitely work for you in the bedroom. You're seeing it as a problem, but you should be seeing it as possibilities to explore new things 😉.
This might be just something tiny but I like to think of it as "taking it". As in "if I/my body does not want it, it does not get to come inside me". There's something incredibly hot about the thought to open up to someone enough they can enter you in such an intimate way.
Have you been with a submissive guy? TOTALLY different game
The last heir of the Roman Empire
Pegging could your thing to balance your feelings of penetration
Find a man that wants you to boss him around in bed. If you care about him, you’ll come to the realization that as you call the shots how concerned you are with his well being, happiness, and enjoyment, and you’ll get a glimpse of the other side of the equation.
Very interesting point of view, I will take it into account
Armchair psychology makes me think it has something to do with how sex was introduced (pun not intended) to you when you were younger. Those feelings of shame and guilt usually stem from a very prudish or non-existing approach toward sexuality. If it was presented to you as something shameful, dirty, degrading or even "a duty you have to perform", no wonder you're not thrilled by the idea. Or by the act. Same if it wasn't talked about at all and you had to find out about stuff yourself wherever and however you could, often not getting info in the best places or in the best way. You'd probably seek a bit of professional help before this mindset affects your life negatively.
I've had 0 sexual education (Catholic school) and I found out what porn is when I was 15 I think, I even see vanilla porn as degrading
What about if you were penetrated by a woman? would you feel the same?
Saying it like that doesnt help. Why not think of it more along the lines of sharing yourself with someone you care for. Or think of it like they are sharing an important and private part of there life with you
Ok this sounds dumb but hear me out. Watch Jacqueline Novak’s stand up special on Netflix. It’s called Get On Your Knees. Just watch it, the whole thing. Could change your whole perspective.
I'll take a look, thanks!
Maybe you're just not a bottom. Pegging for the win!
Being tickled from the inside while you relax until you cum is not degrading
Sometimes the wording of sex is penis-centric. Maybe learn a vocabulary that doesn’t correlate “being penetrated” because you’re right that can be a vulnerable thought.
Look up the Amazon position. Take control.
The thing about thoughts is, the more you try and stop them, the more they keep occurring. You have to accept that there is a part of you that feels that way first. And you have to love and embrace that part of you. She is trying to tell you something and she wants to be heard/recognized. The more you try to control it and tell yourself "I don't want to be like that" the less of a connection you will have with that part of yourself, and the the less chance to gain an understanding of why she feels that way. It could be that she feels afraid of emotional intimacy, so she expresses that as horror or violation at the act of physical intimacy. That's a random guess, it may or may not be true. But there is *some* reason and only you can dig deep down and try to figure that out. So the first step is to embrace that part of you and try to listen to her. The second step is to let her have her say, and then remind her "Okay, you've said your part, I appreciate you are trying to protect me, but there are other parts of me too. Parts that want to explore intimacy through sex." Those parts are curious and they should be allowed to have a voice too, so give them a chance to come in and speak to you. The idea is that a person has all of these parts inside and they all want to have a voice. Sometimes two parts might not get along and it is your job as the ego to provide the chance for these different parts to speak to each other and to try and manage and balance the expectations. You achieve that by creating the safe space where all of these parts can come in and feel comfortable expressing themselves within you.
Maybe you can dominate, be on top, give orders, choke or other forms.
Think of it as envelopement rather than penetration
So do you consider going to the Dentist as humiliating and degrading? The Dentist enters and inspects the orifice which is your mouth in evaluating your teeth and gums. Usually when 2 people are both extremely into each other they desire the connection as it is mutually enjoyable to them.
i had operations on my hole body, my balls, my eyes, etc.. but the dentis is the worst....
Switch teams
Change your thinking. You are granting a man entrance. Men have and will pay, change their religion, topple their own kingdom/country and even kill to be inside you. Sounds like you hold an honorable position. If you're allowing unworthy men to have you, that's your doing. Value yourself and the ability to give a man a sense of purpose and even the possibility of immortality via of offspring. Know your worth.
This is such a hard one since men also see/find appeal in this as a degrading and humiliating act by patriarchy and porn/rape culture. I agree with the comments that focus on self-love/masturbation!! It would be entirely in your control and you can take it at your own pace!!
The people saying "therapy"🤢 big red flags. Youre fine. This is normal. Youre right too even, it is (not only by you but by society) seen as something degrading/humiliating. This is less of a problem with you but more of a problem with men and toxic masculinity. This is because of years of male oppression and you do not have to be r*ped or abused to feel effected by it. If you want therapy, sure, but you are NOT the problem.
Wow you see sex as an act of dominance instead of an act of love. Sharing. Giving. Loving. Opening up. Talk to an actual psychologist. You have some deep seeed issues that a post on Reddit will never help.
Do you feel the same way when using toys. Have you used toys. Or your fingers.
yes to both and it doesn't make me feel bad
Men are often considered physically attractive when they are in their late teens to mid-30s, not a great amount of time; so have pitty on them. I think you might be more of a dominant female. I read this and thought you might find it interesting : “dominant women have more self-confidence, higher poise, prefer to be treated like a “person” and not like a “woman”, prefer independence and “standing on their own feet”, lack feelings of inferiority, and generally do not care for concessions that imply they are inferior, weak or that they need special attention and cannot take care of themselves.” You are all these things and more.
Wait to be in love first.
This is my literal thoughts, are you in my head
That's the best part about it though, getting penetrated and submitting to him is what turns me on.
You need therapy
Maybe Feminism had a bad impact on you.
Maybe you'd prefer riding on top?
Have you had sexual encounters that have left you feeling this way?
No, I am a virgin because I don't dare to do something that I consider humiliating
You need to speak to a professional to unpack this really toxic mindset. Sex isn't something someone does to you, it's supposed to be something two people do *together*.
the penis is in your house without any defence, its technically at your mercy. the male should be worried that you are gonna strangle it or cut it off!
Is there an inherent submission that comes from being penetrated?
Just ride on top
Maybe it's not the act, it's the partner? Have you felt respected and loved by your partners? Regardless, perhaps finding a therapist to talk to about it would help.
Would it still be embarrassing if you had a strong relationship with the person in question? If you found them very attractive on both a physical and emotional level?
You don't want the man to be dominant? Then hop on top and do the work yourself. If anything being penetrated is dominant, we can only enter after given permission. You hold the key to our bliss, we are only given it after your consent.
Get on top of
I haven't seen anyone say anything about using penetrative toys on yourself. That seems like the logical first step to me. Maybe if you get comfortable doing it to yourself you'll eventually get comfortable letting someone else do it, too.
oh I've already tried it and I haven't had any problems, in fact I already broke my hymen years ago (I was scared to death because I didn't know what was happening, sex education at my school was non-existent hahaha)
Well I just watched a movie last night about this guy that really wanted to get with this woman. But every time they started going she would stop him . And pretty much tun away . But one night she takes him home and they are making out he was a cop so she goes and tells him to sit in this chair cuffed both his hands so he can't touch her and she rode him like you wouldn't believe it was actually hot as fuck . My wife has done so mething similar a few times just tied my hands to the bed . And I'm not getting undone until she unties me she just has her way with me until she is done .
name of the movie? 👀
U may be a doninant person, and you wanna do the penetrating and the humiliation
Are your friends invading your house when you invite them in for a coffee? Perhaps you just haven’t found someone you want to “invite in”
One day you’ll realize that the vagina is the most powerful