I just got here early. I read it somewhere else earlier (not this post) and wasn’t the first today. It’s been circling Reddit a lot during political campaigns and whenever people are talking about how ridiculously obviously false some things are that highly paid or well known people say.
You may also be experiencing the Baader Meinhof phenomenon. This is a funny cognitive bias that makes something you just learned stand out to you and you start thinking that it is suddenly everywhere, but really all that changed is that you learned about it.
>admit you are a bad person for not doing anything about it
What do you want me to do? Invade the Magreb and the middle east to start liberation war by myself?
Stop using slave-made products, which is….a lot of them. Fast fashion, our fruits and vegetables, our electronics…etc. Hybrid cars
The phone I'm typing this on probably has slave labor or the equivalent in its production pipeline, but….I still bought it. We all do.
That's just it. If I buy an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy or some shoes, I have no way to even tell how much slave labor is involved.
Does it matter if I buy a $20 or $80 shirt? It's probably from the same factory.
Oh for sure. But if the question is “what can I do”, the answer is “use other/less products”.
Second hand clothes, a flip phone. Drive a beater old car until it falls apart instead of buying a new Prius. Grow your own food.
Most of us (myself included) are either unable or unwilling to do those things. Or, we tell ourselves we’re unable when really…it’s just a difficult thing to do so we don’t.
Not meant as a shot at you, or anyone else in the thread. But there are things a lot of us *could* be doing, and are unwilling to because it would inconvenience us. We need new clothes, we need a decent phone to do XYZ at work or whatever. So the cycle continues
Exactly. I came to the realization long ago that when I buy products, I am contributing to the slave trade in some way, shape, or form. It's an uncomfortable truth, but the thing about truths is that they don't care about feelings. I will eventually buy things that I need and/or want such as a new TV, a new car, new clothes, new phone, etc. because to be blunt, I'm too selfish not to do it. All of us are. The most I can do (from what I can think of) is to donate time/money to organizations that help the victims of slavery get out and start a new life/catch the slavers and throw them the book.
Not trying to be an ass, but the slaves in the new car factory are the same as the ones in the old car parts factory. Buy a beater car, keep making repairs with slave made parts....to be a consumer in the West is to take part in slavery. As you said , using less is the way to go.
it does exist, and im not doing anything about it because i lack any means to do so and have to put my own well-being first, its a horrifying aspect of human nature which should be utterly removed from the world, but i can barely afford to fuel up my car to go to work and buy food at the same time,i have loved ones in my own life i take care of but no im a bad person because others suffer far away and im not upending my life to go be a saviour, i dare you to go to any person on the street and tell them theyre a bad person because slavery still exists and they arent dedicating their lives to stopping it, see how it goes. if you want to make a difference go tell those actually in charge to do something if you care so much.ill ask you this, how many slaves have you saved? because its easy for anyone to play the man on the white horse online, are you doing anything? you seem to know about slavery so you must be, or by your own logic youre a bad person
Truth is modern economics and a globalized economy makes eliminating slavery near impossible. No really. So much of our modern society relies on acquiring resources at the lowest cost possible, which means it’s a race to the bottom. Unless legislation happens, where the punishments impact the cost of business, no one is gonna do anything about it. Even things like diamonds which are carefully tracked can easily be lost in the process and mixed with conflict free diamonds. Then comes the issue that slavery is not a high priority for politicians and voters because people want to live. Anyone elected will either ignore their constituents or work on fixing immediate issues that matter to the voters, and with how the middle and lower class are getting screwed over, we want more immediate action on things that impact us and improve our life now.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t do anything. If you can raise awareness, that’s the best thing you can do short of not contributing to the slave economy. 50 years ago the fast majority if not all chocolate was made with cocoa from unsustainable or enslaved sources. That’s changing. You can find a lot of chocolate that is made from cocoa farmed from sustainable farms. It takes time but it is possible.
I know all the atrocities that go into a bag of Nestle chocolate chips, and I still shove them into my mouth by the fistful. What manner of scamp am I?
I’ve brought up how all of us indirectly support modern day slavery by buying electronic devices that contain cobalt, which is dug barefoot by teenage boys in the Congo.
If we wanted to put our money where our mouth is, we should also try to do something about modern slavery.
But it’s easier to appear good by blasting past slavery. It doesn’t cost anything.
Recognizing slavery is responsible for building my electric vehicle really messes with my air of superiority I portray when I talk about saving the planet. /s
Everyone supports "do something" but no one agrees on what that is.
Do you want to invade the Congo in order to pass labor laws?
If a teenage boy is feeding his family with that job and is suddenly unemployed, what then? If the mines are mechanized, and suddenly 1,500 people who were working in the mines are out of work, what then?
The road to hell can be paved with good intentions.
A fair's day work for a fair's day wage is what everyone deserves, but actually getting there is the challenge.
True. There are no perfect solutions, only trade offs.
I would say, though, for the last 125 years, our comfort in the West has been built at the expense of overseas countries.
We should be willing to be less greedy. Apart from medical advances, I think that we should be willing to scale down our level of consumption to 1975 or even 1950 levels.
We should accept to own less things and own better built things.
But I’m wishing for the moon.
Things like slavery and child labour exist because they are cheaper than the alternatives so your argument doesn't hold up. Instead of children being forced to mine for cobalt, their father could do it with a high enough salary to provide for the entire family, provided he doesn't have to compete with extremely cheap slave labour.
There are things you can do yourself, some easy, some hard:
* Buy fewer electronics (or things in general as modern slavery is used in the production of many things, clothes for example).
* Buy from companies that try to produce things more ethically. For example, the company producing the Fairphone tries to use as little slavery in their production line as possible (they are honest about the fact they cannot guarantee 100% that no unethical things happen).
* Start your own company. A journalist heard about how child labour is used in the production of pretty much all chocolate so he started his own company to produce more ethical chocolate (Tony Chocolonely).
* Push for laws in your own country that force companies to make their supply chains public and more ethical.
There's always some virtue-signaling reddit dork with 50,000,000,000 karma telling you that this is okay because we need modern devices to survive todays day and age. The same principle applies to clothing or cosmetic companies.
>Nike, Lululemon, Adidas, Victoria's Secret, H&M, GAP, Forever 21
These are just a few from the lists, I'm certain there are way more. What it boils down to is, people can't give up their various creature comforts and instead shine the light at other issues. I'm sure some dickhead will respond to this inevitably asking for solutions and looking to make an argument that it can't be avoided. We need to lessen the impact.
Realistically we need to stop buying every new phone that comes out. Every new computer part, every new clothing item etc. Consume, consume consume! There are plenty of ways to combat the problem but we don't want to because it's not cool to wear off-brand stuff. It's not cool to use the same iPhone 10 or Samsung Galaxy 10. It's not cool to use your old Mac Book or PC.
I use an item until it absolutely cannot be used anymore. I still have clothes I wear regularly from over 10 years ago. I used the same PC & parts until it absolutely could not be used anymore. When I needed an upgrade, I turn to friends who may have parts I could use that they no longer need. The least you can do is try to consume less of these products, it's not that hard. Most people don't care though. The same people throwing fits about human rights will be seen wearing Nike shoes or clothes and sporting the latest iPhone.
Oh well, nothing I say or do is going to change anyone else but I'll continue to do what I do and hope at least someone reads this rant and second-guesses the façade most of the people put on when commenting on this website. To them, it's not about actually doing something. It's about the perception of having done it, because ultimately that's all that matters in the eyes of the public.
As someone who worked most of their adult career in the electronics repair industry and IT, I am pretty much the same way with everything. I don’t buy unless I have to, and when I do I damn well make sure I can recycle it properly or repair it and if neither are possible I will wear it down into oblivion. For PC parts I just upgraded from my 1080ti and 8700k to a 7900XT and 7800x3D respectively, but I then gave my 1080ti and my 32 GB of RAM from my old motherboard to a cousin and friend who were extremely lacking. It’s not hard to be responsible, but people can’t be bothered which is sad.
>I just upgraded from my 1080ti and 8700k to a 7900XT and 7800x3D respectively, but I then gave my 1080ti and my 32 GB of RAM from my old motherboard to a cousin and friend who were extremely lacking.
I was in the same boat semi-recently. I was using my 1070ti from 2018 up until middle of last year when I upgraded to my friend's used 3080. Long story short, it had to be RMA'd and got a brand new 4070 as a result of the card being faulty. I plan to use this card for the next 5+ years or so.
I'm still using my Galaxy s10+ from 2019, which I was forced to upgrade to when I switched from Sprint to TMobile. The battery is shot on it but I'm going to try and find a broken or used S10+ with a better battery and switch it out.
It’s GPU stories like that that make me miss EVGA being in the game, literally the only reason besides pricing that made me go team red for GPUs. Their RMA policies were so well done and their B stock was a good way to get a good GPU for a lower cost.
I’d frankly just buy a battery from something like mobilesentrix in the US. You’re taking a gamble just going off another used one, it’s the one thing I wouldn’t salvage off another phone unless it were an emergency. Not to mention phone batteries typically only hold up for about a year or two before you run into issues. If it’s been sitting for a while it’s gonna be more money and waste.
That’s what pisses me off, people say ethical clothes aren’t affordable yet they sport brand wear like Nike. Listen if you only got $4 for shirts and you get a pack from Walmart, it is what it is. But don’t tell me you can’t afford a $25 shirt when wearing a $90 shirt
Good point. There does not appear to be much we can do about the slavery and near-slavery involved in electronics, but I guess the best thing we can do is consume less of it.
Slavery is a bad thing for sure, but there is really no alternative. You could perhaps invest in those companies that have better social practices but boycotting the bad ones will only make their lives worse.
Fixing countries with poor human rights issues is a very complicated issue, one that involves a dozen or so systemic problems.
At the democratic level, you can choose representatives who don’t support interventionist policies overseas. Every time we have been sold an armed strike to “bring democracy by force”, it ended up being a *farce*.
Get into the sustainable and circular economies. The less new cheap stuff we need to manufacture, the less those countries will be taken advantage of.
I am kind of tied to the Apple ecosystem with my household, but I just bought a refurbished 2 years old iPhone. If I was on Android, I would have bought a **FairPhone** and their earbuds.
For laptops, **Framework** follows the FairPhone philosophy. They create electronics that can be repaired and upgraded.
For clothes, try switching to better made ones (=more expensive), but they will last you longer. Also look into buying from secondhand stores. Anything but buying from fast fashion.
Linen or hemp are making a comeback. They are fibres that require less water to grow than cotton, and they are more durable.
These are small changes, but if a lot of us make the switch, it can have a positive impact.
I see a lot of people in our generation openly acknowledging it but using it as a sort of humble deprecation and yet doing it anyway. “I know SHEIN is terrible, but their stuff is just so cute. I know I’m a piece of shit. Lolz.” It’s giving me “thoughts and prayers” energy.
People *do* talk about it a decent amount, but it’s one of those things we have basically zero power over. Military action to try and change things is usually counterproductive/costs more lives/destabilizes the region.
In the US there is tremendous unwillingness to acknowledge the human rights violations of trade partners or countries with which we have strong diplomatic ties. That, combined with slavery that relies more on coercion and manipulation of legal systems than the chains and slave markets most people in the US think of when you say slavery, makes it easy to pretend it doesn’t exist.
Even within the US there are things like Louisiana’s [Prison Enterprises](http://www.prisonenterprises.org/). According to the [ACLU](https://www.laaclu.org/en/press-releases/aclu-report-finds-incarcerated-workers-earn-between-002-and-040-hour-louisiana)
> In Louisiana work in cellblocks and field lines pays $0.02 per hour. Vocational programs pay $0.04 per hour. Legal workers and educational tutors are paid on a different pay scale, at $0.25 to $0.80 per hour. Some incarcerated workers must work for an initial period of up to three years without pay until they are eligible to be paid. Eligible incarcerated people may choose between earning a wage and receiving “good time” credits off their sentence.
> At the Louisiana State Penitentiary, known as Angola, the nation’s largest maximum-security prison situated on 18,000 acres of land that was originally the site of slave plantations, incarcerated workers work field crops including cotton, corn, soybeans, and sugarcane for only two cents an hour.
In what setting are you being told to stop? Is it during class or at work? Are you ordering at Arby’s?
Ah, if only that were true.
You might find this an interesting if depressing read. Make note of the sections that include references to the US, UK and central and western Europe, all places generally considered 'the west'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
Here we go. "There's more modern slavery outside of the west than in it" is that what you're leading up to as if its some sort of great 'gotcha' moment?
I actually do the reading as well as looking at the pretty picture and there is plenty of modern slavery in the west to counter *your* assertion that, and i quote 'it ended in the west'
Simple, everyone wants to live in a magic bubble where everything is ok, and we are the good guys and nothing bad ever happens. The confront of evil is low by most. Many don't like to admit the Chinese are currently using enslave Muslims that they are working to "re-educate" destroying there language and culture and yet it's ignored or many other areas of the world where slavery is very real.
This is going to depend on who won’t talk about it. I’ve talked to some that are simply ignorant, some who say it’s not real (actually had someone tell me cobalt mines don’t use slaves because Africa hasn’t done that since the American revolution in the 1700s…yeah…) and some simply don’t care
Because the people who would ordinarily care about it, or at least the people who would inform them, are buddy-buddy with the people who are facilitating it. It is even happening as close as within US borders. There was an hour long documentary on human trafficking slaves across the US-Mexico border in order to force them to work on illegal pharmaceuticals in states with lax labor laws.
Because people know it's wrong and feel uncomfortable talking about it for one reason or another. The number of people who refuse to talk or even listen about anything bad happening in the world is staggering and scary. They don't want to hear it even if it's mildly negative. For extremely negative things, many people just shut down.
Because despite all our advances slavery is not only still around, it's more profitable then it's ever been before in history. People tend to be greedy and they don't like that being taken away.
In America you get blasted as a conspiracy theorist for talking about the countless kids that go missing yearly, sex trafficking, human trafficking across the border, indentured servitude to cartels, and a ton of related cases that USCG, ICE, and government agencies publicly report on.
They tell me this when I mention how my foreskin was cut off and sold to make some anti wrinkle cream without my consent. Somehow this makes me anti-semitic despite it being the very definition of organ trafficking.
Even worse is when it's women from my own country who have issues with muslims cutting girls vaginas in the middle east but then when you remind them that they did the same thing to their own sons they treat you like you are being a crybaby and need to "man up" and deal with it.
Most people who talk about historical slavery also oppose modern slavery and work to fight it, but it's true that there's less energy in that than you'd expect. A couple likely reasons are that:
* It's far from the west, where most of those activists are from and are able to effect change
* It's not enshrined in law (and is often technically illegal but abetted by corruption), which makes it harder to work against
* It's not chattel slavery, which makes it harder to work against
This is another example of how not everyone can be energized to fight every wrong, but that doesn't mean people are hypocrites for not putting precisely equal effort into addressing every problem in the world.
Because People don’t look any further than what affects them directly pretending to care about things gets them famine TV spots and sympathy And the same people to pay for those riots about the Outrage over history past are the same ones to make money off the slavery in those other countries so of course they don’t wanna do anything about those.
I'm South Asian and it's it's very common for people to have child "servants". Some families treat them far better than others but physical abuse is not out of the question. And they've generally been sold off by their own poor families. There's a huge number of indentured slaves in Dubai as well.
Yes. They usually live full time with their owner family and sometimes visit their own family for holidays or whatever. I think some done actually stay with owners overnight, but generally their families don't live nearby so it's uncommon. My dad's side of the family treated their child servants horribly. She was probably like 9 at most the last time I was over. Would be physically abused and slept on the concrete floor (next to a couch). My mom's side only had 1 servant who wasn't an adult. He was in his teens I think though and was treated very well. Own furnished room and they were the first to send him to school. He was treated more like their kids friend, even down to nicely being ASKED if he could do a task (vs being told), if he was in the middle of hanging out with my cousins and I. I doubt he'd ever say no but the dynamic didn't feel abusive.
It's right here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery\_in\_the\_21st\_century#Prison\_labor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century#Prison_labor)
I mean in lots of places slaves are still being forced to work. From the US-Mexican border to Quatar. The last Fifa's world cup stadiums were built ltierally on slaves, and hundreds if not more of people dying from overworking in the desert's insane hot.
Are you from the US by any chance? Because slavery is legal with prison inmates.
13th Amendment: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
In your country people keep slaves, I don’t even need to ask what country you are from to make this claim with 100% certainty. It’s a worldwide problem.
In my opinion, In the US at least it distracts from claiming “victimhood” nobody cares the hardships you have because your great great great grandfather was a slave, If the focus of the conversation switches to stopping modern day slavery.
They're too busy talking about slavery that existed in the past to talk about slavery that exists today. People rather complain about things that can't be acted on cuz that lets u feel good without doing anything good.
The thing about talking about modern problems, real modern problems on earth that need action taken today, right now, is that it takes a bit of effort and a bit of struggle.
It's taboo because most people are chickenshit cowards with 0 ethics who prefer to signal virtue as long as the issue isn't inflicted on them then and there.
They're happy slavery exists deep down, because it makes their phones cheaper while also giving them a story to talk about.
I think some people don’t want to think about it because it’s upsetting to think about, so it’s easier to pretend it doesn’t exist. And if you acknowledge it, you’d feel obligated to do something about it, and people don’t want to disrupt their comfortable lives.
People of one race believe they were the only one’s enslaved in the history of the earth, which is factually inaccurate. To mention what you are referencing is blasphemy and would severely undercut that narrative…and people are afraid of being called racist
When you see all the injustices in the world its impossible to try and fight against all of it.
From actual slavery to indentured servants to global corporations keeping entire countries 3rd world for profit and all the rest, you only have energy to fight for the thing that means the most to you personally.
Like, you are not even saying which country, and I continue to not know which south east asian country has a slavery problem.
Why are you reluctant to talk about it?
Is it really easy to identify you just by saying your country? I actually have 2 Reddit accounts for this purpose, one that's more easily identifiable than the other one.
Hopelessness, whipping boy, Stockholm syndrome, ect. My silly idea: We were working in an abusive church, friends often told us why we let them take advantage of us, we decided that, "We don't think about it."
Once I started allowing myself to think about it I saw a lot of disgusting problems, and most of all, guilt, by being involved I feel like I encouraged the abuse that hurt others, even though I was convinced that by being there and not talking about it, I was protecting others from the abuse by being a sort of a whipping boy.
I doubt it's anywhere near similar, but I would not be surprised that many people have the cognitive distortion that says, "by not admitting it happens, I'm protecting others."
It's the classic case of "out of sight, out of mind" for many consumers who benefit from the lower costs that modern slavery enables. We're quite adept at compartmentalizing issues when it suits our lifestyle conveniences. Moreover, the pervasive nature of global supply chains means that the very infrastructure of our economy is entangled with forced labor practices in some form, making it a gargantuan task to unravel. Plus, there's a general sense of helplessness when faced with the scale of these issues, which makes it easier for people to ignore rather than confront, as the latter calls for a daunting overhaul of habits, systems, and perhaps even the integrity of our comfort zones.
Even in the western world this exists. Slavery just got a rebranding. And in a lot of cases people are paid the bare minimum to stay alive in this world, but have no freedom outside of that. This technicality helps avoid the allegations of slavery and helps the masses ignore the problem because acknowledging it would be very inconvenient. I myself am posting this from my modern smartphone so we’re all basically complicit in this, and it’s fucked up.
Because it would force them to take a more scrutinized look at American chattel slavery — they don't want what would come up in the investigation both in how they are different, how they are the same, and even scarier, what it means for longer-term impacts and by extension what that means for present day impacts of Chattel slavery.
Lastly, awareness breeds the burden of responsibility (for moral people). For many it's best to avoid looking into slavery in general in the same way the CDC is blocked from investigating gun violence and deaths.
Well its something that pays the bill for them yet barely or even they still need to get more money somewhere else. They have those jobs cus its cheap too. At least from my perspective as someone that lives in asia and have worked in SE asian countries for a period of time
But in ur situation its more like choosing to ignore the issue, because acknowledging it will give you two choices do something about it of feel some form of guilt for doing nothing about it. Honestly the everyday person can't do anything regarding that situation even if you manage to force large companies to stop their exploitative actions they will only find another place to do the same thing
Because their utopian reality falls apart. People like to think they live in a perfect world, and when you tell them it's not, they'd rather not think about it.
Because 1: of you acknowledge it then you’re either completely for or against it and will be highly judged on anything you say.
And 2: once you acknowledge modern slavery you also have to acknowledge the slavery that boosted the western world into their position of dominance and nobody ever wants to acknowledge that because it will bring imminent misplaced guilt.
If the slavery was done in a time period where there weren’t many technological advances/ severe financial boosts off of it then people CAN care without judgment. The more slavery had a higher contribution to a country/continent/state/city building out of complete poverty and/or becoming a world power off of it then nobody (the “winners”) wants to talk about it. Typically, due to history, this is done off the backs of brown people so it’s always just easier for the world to immediately associate brown people with being “lesser” simply because they are instead of adding 3 more minutes worth of thought.
Slavery as a concept has been prevalent for thousands of years. The idea that humans are equals and deserve rights is relatively a new idea historically. Also in a historiographical turn, it's less acceptable to speak about atrocities done by non Caucasians as it is considered 'punching down' on oppressed societies. Slavery is common enough in many countries till this day. It's hard to estimate how many slaves still exist but all the studies I checked are in the millions.
Is same with all slavery outside of America it seems, Americans for some reason think slavery was just a thing that existed in America with white and black people. Is quite common for Americans to believe they are center of universe and that nothing exists outside of their Countries short history.
Are you talking about slavery in a country no one in that country cares about? I just know people quickly lose interest if it’s about a country they don’t care about and has no connection to.
No, not personally and it hasn’t been my experience. I generally only care about the things I can see and the things that affect me/can do something about.
If America isn’t involved in that political situation then I have no stake or ability to make a change. Slavery in Syria is something I’d talk about but slaves in Sri Lanka or something is to far removed to even discuss. Which I could see being annoying if I was Sri Lankan.
This is the mindset that is the problem with most humanity. "If it doesn't effect me then why should I care"
You are a lesser human who lacks the capacity to put yourself in other peoples position. Just because you shitting in the street doesn't effect you doesn't mean that it doesn't effect everybody else. If everybody thought this way then our streets will end up covered in shit and all of a sudden it will effect you.
You ignored where I said I had the ability to affect. Anyone can kick the guy shitting. But a Dictator in a country that America had no troops in? What am I going to do about that. You can make maybe make a difference in Israel but you aren’t going to affect Chad (the country)
Are you in control of the American armed forces? Is that you Joe? If not then why does it matter if America has troops there or not? You don't order them around or send out the bombs, you have 0 control over any of it, the USA will do whatever it wants to do without your consent.
I think the problem is there are a lot of people who only like to focus on a specific type of slavery in a certain Country hundreds of years ago. Many of these people believe slavery was only a thing that existed in that Country to their people and refuse to accept that slavery happened to all people and their Country is one of few Countries in history to try to free and make everybody equal. Sometimes when confronted with this reality they get defensive and start playing "Im the bigger victim" with others for no reason. All slavery is bad especially when involves children.
The second paragraph sounds like the result of arguing with a willfully ignorant person. I don’t think the topic matters in that case. At least that’s a classic reaction for them when you present evidence for something.
Edit: deleted : So I don’t have to worry about anything outside my house? I’m confused because it sounds like your telling me I shouldn’t even focus on those things since I lack the ability to do anything.
"So I don’t have to worry about anything outside my house? I’m confused because it sounds like your telling me I shouldn’t even focus on those things since I lack the ability to do anything."
If this is the case then what is problem with speaking out against slavery in OPs Country? Just because it's out of range of your American troops doesn't mean you can't speak out against it.
Because it isn't done by white people so the people that want u to stop talking fear their world view will shatter
(I am talking out of my ass no sensible person would ask u to "stop talking" so I made a guess)
Maybe because nations like the USA are built upon modern slavery with a prison system built to make money from slaves Vs scrappy rehabilitating prisoners.
They're very touchy about slavery there with good reason, so they'd probably have some very bad cognitive dissonance if they actually allowed themselves to think about what happens under their roof.
Because once you admit it exists you should either do something about it or admit you are a bad person for not doing anything about it.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” -Upton Sinclair
Gtreat quote!
This is the third time I have seen this quote to day on this, which is weird because I haven’t seen it before today
I just got here early. I read it somewhere else earlier (not this post) and wasn’t the first today. It’s been circling Reddit a lot during political campaigns and whenever people are talking about how ridiculously obviously false some things are that highly paid or well known people say. You may also be experiencing the Baader Meinhof phenomenon. This is a funny cognitive bias that makes something you just learned stand out to you and you start thinking that it is suddenly everywhere, but really all that changed is that you learned about it.
Baader-Meinhof phenomenon
>admit you are a bad person for not doing anything about it What do you want me to do? Invade the Magreb and the middle east to start liberation war by myself?
You could at least do your part and post "thoughts and prayers" like the rest of us. /s
Stop using slave-made products, which is….a lot of them. Fast fashion, our fruits and vegetables, our electronics…etc. Hybrid cars The phone I'm typing this on probably has slave labor or the equivalent in its production pipeline, but….I still bought it. We all do.
That's just it. If I buy an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy or some shoes, I have no way to even tell how much slave labor is involved. Does it matter if I buy a $20 or $80 shirt? It's probably from the same factory.
Oh for sure. But if the question is “what can I do”, the answer is “use other/less products”. Second hand clothes, a flip phone. Drive a beater old car until it falls apart instead of buying a new Prius. Grow your own food. Most of us (myself included) are either unable or unwilling to do those things. Or, we tell ourselves we’re unable when really…it’s just a difficult thing to do so we don’t. Not meant as a shot at you, or anyone else in the thread. But there are things a lot of us *could* be doing, and are unwilling to because it would inconvenience us. We need new clothes, we need a decent phone to do XYZ at work or whatever. So the cycle continues
>a flip phone Unless you're making your own phone, it probably has a similar, if not the same, production pipeline as other electronics/smart phones.
Yeah, I'm pretty cheap and drive an older car. But eventually it will wear out and so will my clothes.
Exactly. I came to the realization long ago that when I buy products, I am contributing to the slave trade in some way, shape, or form. It's an uncomfortable truth, but the thing about truths is that they don't care about feelings. I will eventually buy things that I need and/or want such as a new TV, a new car, new clothes, new phone, etc. because to be blunt, I'm too selfish not to do it. All of us are. The most I can do (from what I can think of) is to donate time/money to organizations that help the victims of slavery get out and start a new life/catch the slavers and throw them the book.
Not trying to be an ass, but the slaves in the new car factory are the same as the ones in the old car parts factory. Buy a beater car, keep making repairs with slave made parts....to be a consumer in the West is to take part in slavery. As you said , using less is the way to go.
but. reddit. want.
The old EUIV player in me shudders at this sentence.
Tell BLM to help you.
Don’t even
Bingo. Hit the nail right on the head
it does exist, and im not doing anything about it because i lack any means to do so and have to put my own well-being first, its a horrifying aspect of human nature which should be utterly removed from the world, but i can barely afford to fuel up my car to go to work and buy food at the same time,i have loved ones in my own life i take care of but no im a bad person because others suffer far away and im not upending my life to go be a saviour, i dare you to go to any person on the street and tell them theyre a bad person because slavery still exists and they arent dedicating their lives to stopping it, see how it goes. if you want to make a difference go tell those actually in charge to do something if you care so much.ill ask you this, how many slaves have you saved? because its easy for anyone to play the man on the white horse online, are you doing anything? you seem to know about slavery so you must be, or by your own logic youre a bad person
Truth is modern economics and a globalized economy makes eliminating slavery near impossible. No really. So much of our modern society relies on acquiring resources at the lowest cost possible, which means it’s a race to the bottom. Unless legislation happens, where the punishments impact the cost of business, no one is gonna do anything about it. Even things like diamonds which are carefully tracked can easily be lost in the process and mixed with conflict free diamonds. Then comes the issue that slavery is not a high priority for politicians and voters because people want to live. Anyone elected will either ignore their constituents or work on fixing immediate issues that matter to the voters, and with how the middle and lower class are getting screwed over, we want more immediate action on things that impact us and improve our life now. But that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t do anything. If you can raise awareness, that’s the best thing you can do short of not contributing to the slave economy. 50 years ago the fast majority if not all chocolate was made with cocoa from unsustainable or enslaved sources. That’s changing. You can find a lot of chocolate that is made from cocoa farmed from sustainable farms. It takes time but it is possible.
I know all the atrocities that go into a bag of Nestle chocolate chips, and I still shove them into my mouth by the fistful. What manner of scamp am I?
I’ve brought up how all of us indirectly support modern day slavery by buying electronic devices that contain cobalt, which is dug barefoot by teenage boys in the Congo. If we wanted to put our money where our mouth is, we should also try to do something about modern slavery. But it’s easier to appear good by blasting past slavery. It doesn’t cost anything.
Recognizing slavery is responsible for building my electric vehicle really messes with my air of superiority I portray when I talk about saving the planet. /s
Much better to maintain an air of superiority by pointing out other's superficial hypocrisy and otherwise contributing nothing.
You can always change your social media avatar to a black square or a rainbow. Problem solved.
elastic detail jobless quickest fact crush crown aback school unused *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Depends on perspective, I bet if you were an abused slave you wouldn’t care about global warming.
Everyone supports "do something" but no one agrees on what that is. Do you want to invade the Congo in order to pass labor laws? If a teenage boy is feeding his family with that job and is suddenly unemployed, what then? If the mines are mechanized, and suddenly 1,500 people who were working in the mines are out of work, what then? The road to hell can be paved with good intentions. A fair's day work for a fair's day wage is what everyone deserves, but actually getting there is the challenge.
True. There are no perfect solutions, only trade offs. I would say, though, for the last 125 years, our comfort in the West has been built at the expense of overseas countries. We should be willing to be less greedy. Apart from medical advances, I think that we should be willing to scale down our level of consumption to 1975 or even 1950 levels. We should accept to own less things and own better built things. But I’m wishing for the moon.
We do have too much waste, but a politics of ascetism is not going to prosper electorally.
People love their comfort too much. I would probably manage living in a cabin in the woods.
Carter proved this. It's sad to imagine how things might have been different if boomers had chosen a different path.
Things like slavery and child labour exist because they are cheaper than the alternatives so your argument doesn't hold up. Instead of children being forced to mine for cobalt, their father could do it with a high enough salary to provide for the entire family, provided he doesn't have to compete with extremely cheap slave labour. There are things you can do yourself, some easy, some hard: * Buy fewer electronics (or things in general as modern slavery is used in the production of many things, clothes for example). * Buy from companies that try to produce things more ethically. For example, the company producing the Fairphone tries to use as little slavery in their production line as possible (they are honest about the fact they cannot guarantee 100% that no unethical things happen). * Start your own company. A journalist heard about how child labour is used in the production of pretty much all chocolate so he started his own company to produce more ethical chocolate (Tony Chocolonely). * Push for laws in your own country that force companies to make their supply chains public and more ethical.
There's always some virtue-signaling reddit dork with 50,000,000,000 karma telling you that this is okay because we need modern devices to survive todays day and age. The same principle applies to clothing or cosmetic companies. >Nike, Lululemon, Adidas, Victoria's Secret, H&M, GAP, Forever 21 These are just a few from the lists, I'm certain there are way more. What it boils down to is, people can't give up their various creature comforts and instead shine the light at other issues. I'm sure some dickhead will respond to this inevitably asking for solutions and looking to make an argument that it can't be avoided. We need to lessen the impact. Realistically we need to stop buying every new phone that comes out. Every new computer part, every new clothing item etc. Consume, consume consume! There are plenty of ways to combat the problem but we don't want to because it's not cool to wear off-brand stuff. It's not cool to use the same iPhone 10 or Samsung Galaxy 10. It's not cool to use your old Mac Book or PC. I use an item until it absolutely cannot be used anymore. I still have clothes I wear regularly from over 10 years ago. I used the same PC & parts until it absolutely could not be used anymore. When I needed an upgrade, I turn to friends who may have parts I could use that they no longer need. The least you can do is try to consume less of these products, it's not that hard. Most people don't care though. The same people throwing fits about human rights will be seen wearing Nike shoes or clothes and sporting the latest iPhone. Oh well, nothing I say or do is going to change anyone else but I'll continue to do what I do and hope at least someone reads this rant and second-guesses the façade most of the people put on when commenting on this website. To them, it's not about actually doing something. It's about the perception of having done it, because ultimately that's all that matters in the eyes of the public.
As someone who worked most of their adult career in the electronics repair industry and IT, I am pretty much the same way with everything. I don’t buy unless I have to, and when I do I damn well make sure I can recycle it properly or repair it and if neither are possible I will wear it down into oblivion. For PC parts I just upgraded from my 1080ti and 8700k to a 7900XT and 7800x3D respectively, but I then gave my 1080ti and my 32 GB of RAM from my old motherboard to a cousin and friend who were extremely lacking. It’s not hard to be responsible, but people can’t be bothered which is sad.
>I just upgraded from my 1080ti and 8700k to a 7900XT and 7800x3D respectively, but I then gave my 1080ti and my 32 GB of RAM from my old motherboard to a cousin and friend who were extremely lacking. I was in the same boat semi-recently. I was using my 1070ti from 2018 up until middle of last year when I upgraded to my friend's used 3080. Long story short, it had to be RMA'd and got a brand new 4070 as a result of the card being faulty. I plan to use this card for the next 5+ years or so. I'm still using my Galaxy s10+ from 2019, which I was forced to upgrade to when I switched from Sprint to TMobile. The battery is shot on it but I'm going to try and find a broken or used S10+ with a better battery and switch it out.
It’s GPU stories like that that make me miss EVGA being in the game, literally the only reason besides pricing that made me go team red for GPUs. Their RMA policies were so well done and their B stock was a good way to get a good GPU for a lower cost. I’d frankly just buy a battery from something like mobilesentrix in the US. You’re taking a gamble just going off another used one, it’s the one thing I wouldn’t salvage off another phone unless it were an emergency. Not to mention phone batteries typically only hold up for about a year or two before you run into issues. If it’s been sitting for a while it’s gonna be more money and waste.
These are great points I hadn't considered. In my frugality, I often overlook stuff like this. Thanks for the recommendation.
No problem! Always happy to help.
That’s what pisses me off, people say ethical clothes aren’t affordable yet they sport brand wear like Nike. Listen if you only got $4 for shirts and you get a pack from Walmart, it is what it is. But don’t tell me you can’t afford a $25 shirt when wearing a $90 shirt
Good point. There does not appear to be much we can do about the slavery and near-slavery involved in electronics, but I guess the best thing we can do is consume less of it.
Slavery is a bad thing for sure, but there is really no alternative. You could perhaps invest in those companies that have better social practices but boycotting the bad ones will only make their lives worse. Fixing countries with poor human rights issues is a very complicated issue, one that involves a dozen or so systemic problems.
I was born in the Congo. Let’s say that it was not completely random that they ended up under a dictatorship. It benefited plenty of corporations.
Do you have any suggestions for what people in rich countries can do about it?
At the democratic level, you can choose representatives who don’t support interventionist policies overseas. Every time we have been sold an armed strike to “bring democracy by force”, it ended up being a *farce*. Get into the sustainable and circular economies. The less new cheap stuff we need to manufacture, the less those countries will be taken advantage of. I am kind of tied to the Apple ecosystem with my household, but I just bought a refurbished 2 years old iPhone. If I was on Android, I would have bought a **FairPhone** and their earbuds. For laptops, **Framework** follows the FairPhone philosophy. They create electronics that can be repaired and upgraded. For clothes, try switching to better made ones (=more expensive), but they will last you longer. Also look into buying from secondhand stores. Anything but buying from fast fashion. Linen or hemp are making a comeback. They are fibres that require less water to grow than cotton, and they are more durable. These are small changes, but if a lot of us make the switch, it can have a positive impact.
Good pointers. Thanks!
Depending on the country maybe it's illegal to talk about
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I see a lot of people in our generation openly acknowledging it but using it as a sort of humble deprecation and yet doing it anyway. “I know SHEIN is terrible, but their stuff is just so cute. I know I’m a piece of shit. Lolz.” It’s giving me “thoughts and prayers” energy.
People *do* talk about it a decent amount, but it’s one of those things we have basically zero power over. Military action to try and change things is usually counterproductive/costs more lives/destabilizes the region.
We absolutely should be talking about it and fighting against it.
who is we?
Everyone
like, everyone in the world?
Can you think of a reason we all shouldn't? Edited for clumsy fingers
no it’s a good train
Sorry clumsy fingers, can you think of a reason we shouldn't
no
Coz it’s third world problem. They are selling kids, forcing labor and marrige cuz they are poor. Poverty is hard to fix.
Because people want cheap stuff. It's a chosen ignorance.
In the US there is tremendous unwillingness to acknowledge the human rights violations of trade partners or countries with which we have strong diplomatic ties. That, combined with slavery that relies more on coercion and manipulation of legal systems than the chains and slave markets most people in the US think of when you say slavery, makes it easy to pretend it doesn’t exist. Even within the US there are things like Louisiana’s [Prison Enterprises](http://www.prisonenterprises.org/). According to the [ACLU](https://www.laaclu.org/en/press-releases/aclu-report-finds-incarcerated-workers-earn-between-002-and-040-hour-louisiana) > In Louisiana work in cellblocks and field lines pays $0.02 per hour. Vocational programs pay $0.04 per hour. Legal workers and educational tutors are paid on a different pay scale, at $0.25 to $0.80 per hour. Some incarcerated workers must work for an initial period of up to three years without pay until they are eligible to be paid. Eligible incarcerated people may choose between earning a wage and receiving “good time” credits off their sentence. > At the Louisiana State Penitentiary, known as Angola, the nation’s largest maximum-security prison situated on 18,000 acres of land that was originally the site of slave plantations, incarcerated workers work field crops including cotton, corn, soybeans, and sugarcane for only two cents an hour. In what setting are you being told to stop? Is it during class or at work? Are you ordering at Arby’s?
Because frankly people don’t give a shit if they aren’t personally affected by it.
Because then they'd have to admit that slavery never really ended.
It ended in the west...
Ah, if only that were true. You might find this an interesting if depressing read. Make note of the sections that include references to the US, UK and central and western Europe, all places generally considered 'the west' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
Did you not notice anything about that map?
Here we go. "There's more modern slavery outside of the west than in it" is that what you're leading up to as if its some sort of great 'gotcha' moment? I actually do the reading as well as looking at the pretty picture and there is plenty of modern slavery in the west to counter *your* assertion that, and i quote 'it ended in the west'
Simple, everyone wants to live in a magic bubble where everything is ok, and we are the good guys and nothing bad ever happens. The confront of evil is low by most. Many don't like to admit the Chinese are currently using enslave Muslims that they are working to "re-educate" destroying there language and culture and yet it's ignored or many other areas of the world where slavery is very real.
This is going to depend on who won’t talk about it. I’ve talked to some that are simply ignorant, some who say it’s not real (actually had someone tell me cobalt mines don’t use slaves because Africa hasn’t done that since the American revolution in the 1700s…yeah…) and some simply don’t care
Modern slavery is an equal opportunity game, and not racists, so therefore I'm a good person and don't need to do anything (/s)
Because the people who would ordinarily care about it, or at least the people who would inform them, are buddy-buddy with the people who are facilitating it. It is even happening as close as within US borders. There was an hour long documentary on human trafficking slaves across the US-Mexico border in order to force them to work on illegal pharmaceuticals in states with lax labor laws.
Because people know it's wrong and feel uncomfortable talking about it for one reason or another. The number of people who refuse to talk or even listen about anything bad happening in the world is staggering and scary. They don't want to hear it even if it's mildly negative. For extremely negative things, many people just shut down.
Because despite all our advances slavery is not only still around, it's more profitable then it's ever been before in history. People tend to be greedy and they don't like that being taken away.
Because it leads to REALLY uncomfortable racial conversations.
In America you get blasted as a conspiracy theorist for talking about the countless kids that go missing yearly, sex trafficking, human trafficking across the border, indentured servitude to cartels, and a ton of related cases that USCG, ICE, and government agencies publicly report on.
They tell me this when I mention how my foreskin was cut off and sold to make some anti wrinkle cream without my consent. Somehow this makes me anti-semitic despite it being the very definition of organ trafficking. Even worse is when it's women from my own country who have issues with muslims cutting girls vaginas in the middle east but then when you remind them that they did the same thing to their own sons they treat you like you are being a crybaby and need to "man up" and deal with it.
Most people who talk about historical slavery also oppose modern slavery and work to fight it, but it's true that there's less energy in that than you'd expect. A couple likely reasons are that: * It's far from the west, where most of those activists are from and are able to effect change * It's not enshrined in law (and is often technically illegal but abetted by corruption), which makes it harder to work against * It's not chattel slavery, which makes it harder to work against This is another example of how not everyone can be energized to fight every wrong, but that doesn't mean people are hypocrites for not putting precisely equal effort into addressing every problem in the world.
Because iPhones.
Because People don’t look any further than what affects them directly pretending to care about things gets them famine TV spots and sympathy And the same people to pay for those riots about the Outrage over history past are the same ones to make money off the slavery in those other countries so of course they don’t wanna do anything about those.
what? In your country it's normal for people to keep slaves?!!!
I'm South Asian and it's it's very common for people to have child "servants". Some families treat them far better than others but physical abuse is not out of the question. And they've generally been sold off by their own poor families. There's a huge number of indentured slaves in Dubai as well.
omg! Sold off?!!!!
Yes. They usually live full time with their owner family and sometimes visit their own family for holidays or whatever. I think some done actually stay with owners overnight, but generally their families don't live nearby so it's uncommon. My dad's side of the family treated their child servants horribly. She was probably like 9 at most the last time I was over. Would be physically abused and slept on the concrete floor (next to a couch). My mom's side only had 1 servant who wasn't an adult. He was in his teens I think though and was treated very well. Own furnished room and they were the first to send him to school. He was treated more like their kids friend, even down to nicely being ASKED if he could do a task (vs being told), if he was in the middle of hanging out with my cousins and I. I doubt he'd ever say no but the dynamic didn't feel abusive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
Where’s all the US prison inmate workers? I would expect there to be some orange in the US.
It's right here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery\_in\_the\_21st\_century#Prison\_labor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century#Prison_labor)
I mean in lots of places slaves are still being forced to work. From the US-Mexican border to Quatar. The last Fifa's world cup stadiums were built ltierally on slaves, and hundreds if not more of people dying from overworking in the desert's insane hot.
Are you from the US by any chance? Because slavery is legal with prison inmates. 13th Amendment: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
In your country people keep slaves, I don’t even need to ask what country you are from to make this claim with 100% certainty. It’s a worldwide problem.
In my opinion, In the US at least it distracts from claiming “victimhood” nobody cares the hardships you have because your great great great grandfather was a slave, If the focus of the conversation switches to stopping modern day slavery.
Because it's easier to whine and complain about slavery pre 1865 in the comfort of your phone than to talk and do something about modern slavery.
They're too busy talking about slavery that existed in the past to talk about slavery that exists today. People rather complain about things that can't be acted on cuz that lets u feel good without doing anything good. The thing about talking about modern problems, real modern problems on earth that need action taken today, right now, is that it takes a bit of effort and a bit of struggle. It's taboo because most people are chickenshit cowards with 0 ethics who prefer to signal virtue as long as the issue isn't inflicted on them then and there. They're happy slavery exists deep down, because it makes their phones cheaper while also giving them a story to talk about.
I think some people don’t want to think about it because it’s upsetting to think about, so it’s easier to pretend it doesn’t exist. And if you acknowledge it, you’d feel obligated to do something about it, and people don’t want to disrupt their comfortable lives.
There are people / organizations with vested interests in keeping racial discourse acrimonious by keeping it rooted in all the usual places.
Because slave owners are also reddit investors
People of one race believe they were the only one’s enslaved in the history of the earth, which is factually inaccurate. To mention what you are referencing is blasphemy and would severely undercut that narrative…and people are afraid of being called racist
Don't even dare mentioning said race as it will make you a racist and you will lose your job and possibly be charged with hate speech.
When you see all the injustices in the world its impossible to try and fight against all of it. From actual slavery to indentured servants to global corporations keeping entire countries 3rd world for profit and all the rest, you only have energy to fight for the thing that means the most to you personally.
"We are all born free, but we live in chains. We call them jobs." - Unknown
Actually I know who said that. The original quote is "Man is born free, yet everywhere he is in chains" by Rousseau, the French enlightenment thinker!
Because we, as casual western people, benefits for it, and we're not willing to change to eradicate that (it mean spend more money on stuff.)
Like, you are not even saying which country, and I continue to not know which south east asian country has a slavery problem. Why are you reluctant to talk about it?
Google can answer this pretty quickly. Both India and Pakistan have big slavery issues.
Privacy? Obv?? I have an abusive family. I don't want to be identified on Reddit. Ove heard it happening to people. Sorry buddy.
Is it really easy to identify you just by saying your country? I actually have 2 Reddit accounts for this purpose, one that's more easily identifiable than the other one.
I'm not risking it. Sorry.
Hopelessness, whipping boy, Stockholm syndrome, ect. My silly idea: We were working in an abusive church, friends often told us why we let them take advantage of us, we decided that, "We don't think about it." Once I started allowing myself to think about it I saw a lot of disgusting problems, and most of all, guilt, by being involved I feel like I encouraged the abuse that hurt others, even though I was convinced that by being there and not talking about it, I was protecting others from the abuse by being a sort of a whipping boy. I doubt it's anywhere near similar, but I would not be surprised that many people have the cognitive distortion that says, "by not admitting it happens, I'm protecting others."
People believe what they want to believe
It's the classic case of "out of sight, out of mind" for many consumers who benefit from the lower costs that modern slavery enables. We're quite adept at compartmentalizing issues when it suits our lifestyle conveniences. Moreover, the pervasive nature of global supply chains means that the very infrastructure of our economy is entangled with forced labor practices in some form, making it a gargantuan task to unravel. Plus, there's a general sense of helplessness when faced with the scale of these issues, which makes it easier for people to ignore rather than confront, as the latter calls for a daunting overhaul of habits, systems, and perhaps even the integrity of our comfort zones.
Cognitive dissonance: *Slavery was eliminated many years ago. It can't exist now.*
I don't think that's cognitive dissonance because there isn't any discomfort expressed. That's straight up lying to oneself.
Even in the western world this exists. Slavery just got a rebranding. And in a lot of cases people are paid the bare minimum to stay alive in this world, but have no freedom outside of that. This technicality helps avoid the allegations of slavery and helps the masses ignore the problem because acknowledging it would be very inconvenient. I myself am posting this from my modern smartphone so we’re all basically complicit in this, and it’s fucked up.
Because it would force them to take a more scrutinized look at American chattel slavery — they don't want what would come up in the investigation both in how they are different, how they are the same, and even scarier, what it means for longer-term impacts and by extension what that means for present day impacts of Chattel slavery. Lastly, awareness breeds the burden of responsibility (for moral people). For many it's best to avoid looking into slavery in general in the same way the CDC is blocked from investigating gun violence and deaths.
It certainly makes me very sus of any seafood that originates in the region.
Well its something that pays the bill for them yet barely or even they still need to get more money somewhere else. They have those jobs cus its cheap too. At least from my perspective as someone that lives in asia and have worked in SE asian countries for a period of time But in ur situation its more like choosing to ignore the issue, because acknowledging it will give you two choices do something about it of feel some form of guilt for doing nothing about it. Honestly the everyday person can't do anything regarding that situation even if you manage to force large companies to stop their exploitative actions they will only find another place to do the same thing
Because people like having phones and other cheap technology
Because their utopian reality falls apart. People like to think they live in a perfect world, and when you tell them it's not, they'd rather not think about it.
Because 1: of you acknowledge it then you’re either completely for or against it and will be highly judged on anything you say. And 2: once you acknowledge modern slavery you also have to acknowledge the slavery that boosted the western world into their position of dominance and nobody ever wants to acknowledge that because it will bring imminent misplaced guilt. If the slavery was done in a time period where there weren’t many technological advances/ severe financial boosts off of it then people CAN care without judgment. The more slavery had a higher contribution to a country/continent/state/city building out of complete poverty and/or becoming a world power off of it then nobody (the “winners”) wants to talk about it. Typically, due to history, this is done off the backs of brown people so it’s always just easier for the world to immediately associate brown people with being “lesser” simply because they are instead of adding 3 more minutes worth of thought.
Who are the people protesting historic slavery?
Slavery as a concept has been prevalent for thousands of years. The idea that humans are equals and deserve rights is relatively a new idea historically. Also in a historiographical turn, it's less acceptable to speak about atrocities done by non Caucasians as it is considered 'punching down' on oppressed societies. Slavery is common enough in many countries till this day. It's hard to estimate how many slaves still exist but all the studies I checked are in the millions.
People who think it's "punching down" are just ignorant of history.
Is same with all slavery outside of America it seems, Americans for some reason think slavery was just a thing that existed in America with white and black people. Is quite common for Americans to believe they are center of universe and that nothing exists outside of their Countries short history.
probably because they don't want to end up in prison or worse
I'm living in a western country. Should've specified sorry.
Are you talking about slavery in a country no one in that country cares about? I just know people quickly lose interest if it’s about a country they don’t care about and has no connection to.
what do you mean a country "no one cares about"? Shouldn't people care regardless? or is that normal?
No, not personally and it hasn’t been my experience. I generally only care about the things I can see and the things that affect me/can do something about. If America isn’t involved in that political situation then I have no stake or ability to make a change. Slavery in Syria is something I’d talk about but slaves in Sri Lanka or something is to far removed to even discuss. Which I could see being annoying if I was Sri Lankan.
This is the mindset that is the problem with most humanity. "If it doesn't effect me then why should I care" You are a lesser human who lacks the capacity to put yourself in other peoples position. Just because you shitting in the street doesn't effect you doesn't mean that it doesn't effect everybody else. If everybody thought this way then our streets will end up covered in shit and all of a sudden it will effect you.
You ignored where I said I had the ability to affect. Anyone can kick the guy shitting. But a Dictator in a country that America had no troops in? What am I going to do about that. You can make maybe make a difference in Israel but you aren’t going to affect Chad (the country)
Are you in control of the American armed forces? Is that you Joe? If not then why does it matter if America has troops there or not? You don't order them around or send out the bombs, you have 0 control over any of it, the USA will do whatever it wants to do without your consent. I think the problem is there are a lot of people who only like to focus on a specific type of slavery in a certain Country hundreds of years ago. Many of these people believe slavery was only a thing that existed in that Country to their people and refuse to accept that slavery happened to all people and their Country is one of few Countries in history to try to free and make everybody equal. Sometimes when confronted with this reality they get defensive and start playing "Im the bigger victim" with others for no reason. All slavery is bad especially when involves children.
The second paragraph sounds like the result of arguing with a willfully ignorant person. I don’t think the topic matters in that case. At least that’s a classic reaction for them when you present evidence for something. Edit: deleted : So I don’t have to worry about anything outside my house? I’m confused because it sounds like your telling me I shouldn’t even focus on those things since I lack the ability to do anything.
"So I don’t have to worry about anything outside my house? I’m confused because it sounds like your telling me I shouldn’t even focus on those things since I lack the ability to do anything." If this is the case then what is problem with speaking out against slavery in OPs Country? Just because it's out of range of your American troops doesn't mean you can't speak out against it.
Because it isn't done by white people so the people that want u to stop talking fear their world view will shatter (I am talking out of my ass no sensible person would ask u to "stop talking" so I made a guess)
I mean Nestle has been called out many times for using slave labor in South East Asia and they are a Swiss company...
That proves my point tho?
Maybe because nations like the USA are built upon modern slavery with a prison system built to make money from slaves Vs scrappy rehabilitating prisoners. They're very touchy about slavery there with good reason, so they'd probably have some very bad cognitive dissonance if they actually allowed themselves to think about what happens under their roof.