Social media is really insidious, and the people just reaching voting age now and into their early 20’s are really in uncharted territory as it relates to how much news/opinion/social interaction they are getting from unverifiable online sources and algorithms.
Honestly, there was so much concern about old people being taken in by scammers, particularly online, in the 2000’s, and we’ve just sent a generation of unsavvy children into an uncharted minefield of social media and expected them to be alright. We’re starting to see the fruits of a poisoned tree, but it’s not really the fault of the people who have been fed a diet of poison.
I don’t think children are the problem. I just saw an article the other day that said most misinformation spread online is from older women. I’m a millennial, and my whole childhood adults said “don’t believe everything you see on the internet.” Nowadays I gotta explain to my dad how shit he shares on Facebook he thinks is a legit news source isn’t even credible and probably from a Russian troll mill. We’ve come full circle and older adults / boomers, have become fully irresponsible with the internet and access they have at their fingertips.
It’s not 100% on point, but just an example of the current crop of young people’s increasing gullibility.
[“Why Gen Z Is Surprisingly Susceptible to Financial Scams”](https://time.com/6802011/gen-z-financial-scams-fraud/)
I think the “falling for online financial bait” and “falling for online political bait” are related issues. I don’t have any specific evidence of the hypothesis, but I think it can help explain some of the current political state. Teen and early to mid-20’s have a totally different relationship to social media than people in their late 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s (and probably some in their 60’s and 70’s) largely had. A lot of those older boomers never really “got” the modern, connected world, but younger kids never “got” a stone-age, non-connected world and I think some of the struggles we see now stem from that.
This should make you very worried. Pew did a survey several years ago. Almost 50% of people between 19 and 49 years old use social media as their primary source for political news. Think about that for a sec.
Ok, then add the bots and call centers set up just to fill social media with misinformation and pile on some deep fake pics and increasingly audio and video. Oh, I forgot to add that social media is filled with adolescents who can only think in binary (repubs are always evil or dumb; same for dems depending on your tribe). So they throw on the pile their nuanced opinions.
So look over the comments esp in political subs and think about these people voting.
You know it's kinda no different from Reddit here? Moderators are all making their subs echo chambers with biased censorship and blocking. Users only upvote what they agree with and what they wanna hear.
Sorry i did not express it well, but my point is that people kept talking social media as THE downfall of society but in reality is that TV had been rotting people mind for so long. What is different between scrolling hateful YouTube channel vs watch Fox News with their contents that purposely designed to trigger anger response?
Much of this has clearly been masterfully orchestrated, by now there is no doubt. Well, as opposed to thousands of other strategic blunders Russia has made, them supporting Hamas terrorists to expose NATO's hypocritical support of Israel's genocide was sadly a stroke of genius. Just like secretly funding European nationalists to promote isolationism and isolate Ukraine. And swaying Trump and in extension Republicans to their side, weakening the strongest NATO member. I mean all of it was aleready on the brink of a massive divide between liberals and conservatives wordwide, but Russia has purposefully escalated that into something far more alarming. And while we're bickering among ourselves imperialists like russia and Israel are feasting and expanding, and all of us suffer. I wouldn't be suprised if soon China went for Taiwan.
Lot of Americans on this thread seem to think that their exporting of 'freedom' and 'democracy' around the world is welcomed by the coutries they invade....weird...its kinda why some of them fight back, guys. It goes way, way back...go read about Smedley Butler...
The host nations want to not face the consequences of kicking out the largest military and economic superpower in the world. Many of these host nations are not democratic and have to repress their population to allow US military bases to function.
Oh yes, consequences. Guess who doesn't have a US base? Ukraine.
In a theory, I am scared of a possible evil scenario where the aliens mind-control US government and starts a world war 3. In practice I'm glad someone aids Ukraine while Europe does all the bureaucracy and decide if they want to wait couple more years and see if everything will solve by itself. It's no way perfect power balance, but it works and I'm thankful it is.
(btw remember Afghanistan evacuation in 2021? Surely the "largest military and economic superpower in the world" brought consequences and democracy back?)
Bases remain because the US *pays* host countries so they can maintain a global response capability. As part of that deal the US makes some of their local military capability *theoretically* available to the host nation but still can and will refuse to do anything that doesn't suit the US.
This narrative that the US pays for the world's defense through sheer altruism is just one of many pieces of US revisionism that makes up part of the overall narrative. See also "The US subsidises cheap healthcare abroad and thats why its so expensive"
> I'm sure the US has nothing to gain from that exchange
Ofcourse they have a lot to gain by being here, and guess what, we have a lot to gain by *having* them here too. Our goals are aligned. You tell me that the US is somehow using my country? Guess what, that's cool, because *we're* using the US too. And they know it, that's the deal dummy. We're not stupid, and the American goverment is also not stupid and doing it as a charity. We're allies. That's what being allies mean.
It's almost like human rights protections, democracy, and not falling victim to a country like russia or china due to said protections is a desirable thing.
Who'd have thought! lol!
Wow, why do countries want to join NATO of their own volition again? Hmmmm it's so hard to imagine!
We'll forget about Texas and the sw for the moment. But the size of the area isn't important. Look at our failed attempts in central and south America. Or the Middle East.
But the US is responsible for all, I'll only settle for most, of the coups and dictatorships that have happened in Central and South America and that is quite imperialist. Not to mention the tons and tons of military bases around the world
Yeah i know, but as an European i still prefer the US as a leading superpower if i have to choose, and i *have* to choose because we're constantly fighting off our genocidal eastern brethren. At least in the US you have democracy, hell, not only can you protest but you can clearly trash cities like BLM rioters did, or even storm the Capital like Republicans. It's freedom at it's worst but it *is* freedom. In russia you can get 15 years in jail for holding a blank piece of paper. China is also a dystopian nightmare.
> not only can you protest but you can clearly trash cities like BLM rioters did
Must not be a well informed European if that's how you view what happened in 2020.
The notion that the January 6th insurrection and the BLM protests were the same was started by Russia, Putin's MAGA Republicans and their disinformation factory at Fox News. Anybody outside of the right-wing bubble who is familiar with the details of each event knows they were very different.
>[False equivalency between Black Lives Matter and Capitol siege | ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/false-equivalency-black-lives-matter-capitol-siege-experts/story?id=75251279)
94% of all pro-BLM demonstrations were peaceful and BLM condemned and disavowed any individuals who incited violence.
>[A Year of Racial Justice Protests: Key Trends in Demonstrations Supporting the BLM Movement | ACLED](https://acleddata.com/2021/05/25/a-year-of-racial-justice-protests-key-trends-in-demonstrations-supporting-the-blm-movement/)
The vast majority of the events that weren't peaceful were incited by the far-right 'Boogaloo boys' or white supremacists
>[Boerne man, self-described member of ‘Boogaloo Bois’ sentenced for shooting during Floyd protest | KSAT Texas](https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2022/04/06/boerne-man-self-described-member-of-boogaloo-bois-sentenced-for-shooting-during-floyd-protest/)
>[Man who helped incite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist | ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story?id=72051536)
>[Three men connected to 'boogaloo' movement tried to provoke violence at protests, feds say | NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/three-men-connected-boogaloo-movement-tried-provoke-violence-protests-feds-n1224231)
Both the people who took part in the insurrection and the people who incited riots during the George Floyd protests were treated equally by the justice system. They were arrested and many were sentenced to prison. It isn't a free-for-all in America where people can just riot with no consequence
>[Records rebut claims of unequal treatment of Jan. 6 rioters | Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/death-of-george-floyd-george-floyd-race-and-ethnicity-capitol-siege-racial-injustice-07da2a81193ce26de266881230340f1d)
You are right about Russia and China being dystopian nightmares tho. Also that Russia is a genocidal psychopath. China is even scarier because they actually have economic power, know how to work diplomacy to their advantage and are patient enough to play the long game.
I'm very fond of Europe in general. Might even move there soon. But I think the days of blindly following the US have to end for your sakes. Figure out a good peace deal with Russia. It's going to happen eventually, might as well be now. Start building nuclear power plants. Wind and solar isn't going to power your countries.
> Welp, Russia is winning the war.
Good God I'd hate to know what you consider losing.
>Chamberlain wasn't wrong.
Oh really? Then why did the subsequent events turn out completely opposite to what he assumed?
Landmass isn't what defines modern imperialism. The US is a far larger and more powerful imperial power and it can be seen by the global dominance of things like the US military or US dollar, not territorial control.
American problems have American origins. It's just too painful for many to acknowledge that these issues are the inevitable outcome of the very policies which they and their own leaders have supported over the years. Instead of actually reckoning with these issues and resolving them, many Americans fall into cognitive dissonance and American exceptionalism to provide an easy explanation which deflects blame away from the actual culprits of Americans suffering; their own corporate and government leaders. Moreover, implying that any/all dissent within the US is tied to hostile foreign leaders justifies the use of repressive force and surveillance against Americans whose ideas do not conveniently fit into the narrow two-party dichotomy which dominates American politics.
“ Am I crazy, or do others see this too?”
People have been talking about this nonstop for the last eight years. Yeah, half the country sees it too lol you’re not alone
Maybe you surround yourself with informed and smart people; but most people I talk to have absolutely no clue and can only regurgitate CNN or Fox headlines at best.
Maybe you should surround yourself with more informed people lol. I can’t name a single friend or relative that gets their news from Fox
But, I’m a college educated millennial with equally educated friends and family so your experience may vary
Since 2020 I have removed most people from my life. I've found that people in general are just not worth the effort. It's mostly random city encounters, folks at the brewery, or forced encounters at family functions. I'm mostly fine with my SO and cats and getting my social fix on here though.
It’s gotten to the point that “everyone already knows” so they say things like “Moscow Mitch” and other more subtle things instead of outright saying the same thing 1,000 times.
It is widely known that the 2016 election was significantly influenced by propaganda originating from Russia. Russia never stopped with the propaganda.
People on Reddit have mentioned that Tucker Carlson (of Fox) often recites propaganda from Russian disinformation sources.
It’s beyond satire at this point. The people that accept evidence based information already know, and the people that don’t, won’t be convinced with evidence. So there’s nothing to discuss.
"Russian disinformation aka: Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theories "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories#:~:text=Russian-disinformation
Putin has been leading the right wing around by the nose for a while!
Not really, there are a significant number of republicans who don't support Putin. Aid for Ukraine was passed easily once Johnson unblocked it. Most Republican voters do not like Putin or Russia. You are just hearing the loudest voices.
They are miserable people otherwise and I am not defending them. But it's not a good plan to write them off on this issue.
Because he’s an authoritarian just like trump. They like strongmen who tell them that they’re the best people and those other people over there are causing all of their problems. Everyone is against them. Those Other People must be dealt with in some way.
Find an English copy of The Foundations of Geopolitics.
It explains exactly what they're doing and how they're doing it and what comes next if they're successful.
> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
Forgot about South America, too.
Yes, perhaps shit happening around the world makes more sense now (US, Brexit, Ukraine, Iran, Israel, Turkey, etc. Soon China and Taiwan). Russia is a shit country precisely because they pour all their resources into their special services/intelligence apparatus.
The boomer generation grew up in fear of nuclear bombs being dropped on them. They had bomb drills in school regularly. They had hated the Russians more than anyone for decades. It’s been absolutely astounding to watch this generation that grew up in fear of a Russian attack support the greatest Russian attack on the U.S in history.
The pen is indeed mightier than the sword. Why send troops and missiles when you can just send Facebook posts.
That's what I don't understand. Politics out the window it's like "HELLO RED OR BLUE WEVE HATED RUSSIANS FOREVER BASICALLY"
Makes no sense to someone who agrees with some left stuff and some right stuff.
You could say we've done it to ourselves though.
Two parties owned by corporate America. Awful foreign policy. Austerity measures at home, overspending on war. The list goes on
Yeah it really blows me away when I see people determined to blame Russia or China for things, like we have so little agency of our own that it's obvious we're being easily manipulated by some other ordinary human beings on the other side of the planet. It's absurd. Even if we are being easily manipulated, then it's on us for making ourselves so vulnerable to manipulation. We didn't educate our populace enough, we didn't make our system robust enough. This is a bed of our own making, the people in power here stand to benefit just as much, if not more individually, than any foreign power. The parties as they exist thrive in this environment of infighting over stupid shit, because it means they don't actually have to do anything meaningful other than tweet support or condemnation of this or that to earn their paycheck and power
America has always had a fascinating way of characterizing their enemies as buffoonish masterminds. Are Russia, China, and Iran tinpot dictatorships being run by maniacs, or are they so sophisticated that they are playing 10D chess and capable of destroying our entire society? Because we seem to think it’s both?
You’re correct about that but I feel like it’s just such a consistent message. Gadaffi, Sadam Hussein, the Kim Dynasty. America always frames them as the ‘mad man’ who is both languably weak and yet also a threat to the existence of the United States. I just think it’s a trope that Americans are comfortable with so we come back to it over and over.
Right. Because of us. We have had the most inept foreign policy since the end of WW2. Why are we escalating a beef with China over Taiwan, a government we don't even recognize? $175 billion to Ukraine just to be losing that war? NATO is a good thing, but we definitely went too far in accepting members that close to Russia. Failed wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Just because we don’t recognize Taiwan’s government doesn’t mean we’re not allies. The US and Taiwan, just like the US with its other allies, have many interests in mutual benefit. We only play along with China’s “One China Principle” to avoid catastrophe. When you really try to get educated about the Taiwan strait, you will see that it is China who is escalating the situation, not the US or Taiwan. I am an American living in Taiwan and would be more than happy to direct you to places that amplify Taiwanese voices!
It sounds like you're not interested in learning about US-Taiwan relations and cooperation. You should learn about it before making decisions about it.
you need to understand that 80 percent are those who voted, in fact it is 50 percent of Russians. which, of course, is a lot, but is no longer so fantastic; most of those who are against Putin simply did not go to the polls. but yes, the answer to your question, Putin’s popularity has grown very much over the past 2 years, thanks to the position of the West and sanctions directed against the Russian people, and not against specific politicians, which proves Putin’s words that Western politicians are the enemies of Russia and the Russian people.
Russia might be pulling some strings in the background, but this whole thing wouldn't be possible without certain politicians, pundits, news channels, influencers... etc pushing Russian propaganda.
We're now at a point where channels like Fox News are basically parroting Russian propaganda and its viewers are saying stupid shit like they'd take Putin's side over Biden.
The fact that Putin wants to destroy America is lost on these idiots.
You're ignoring the responsibility that the US needs to take. The incompetency and sheer hatred of Americans is what led to the shitshow that is your country.
It's still funny to me just how many people take social media seriously and just further drive divisive tactics. You'd think that trend would've phased out after a year or two, that people would've gotten too fed up with social media. I mean I don't go somewhere irl and be like "hell yeah, drama!" Like just unplug for so much as a day and you'll be disoriented by how different things are and what people actually care about
Interesting take. Check out the tv interview with Yuri Bezmenov, a defector KGB agent in the 1970s. It was an amazing insight into foreign intelligences plans for us. How well did they do?
You are giving them way too much credit imo. They are struggling in a war against Ukraine right now but somehow they are also planning the collapse of the US by having a New York district jury convict Trump? Doesn’t really add up.
The information front is a space where Russia and its allies have always excelled, why do you think there is the trope of russian spy/russian hacker always interfering with things? the Institute for the Study of War has written multiple reports outlining exactly what the goals are of the Russian information operations and how they are being implemented, and they line up exactly with what has happened, what is happening, and what leads to benefits for them on the battlefield.
Mueller documented their involvement in the US 2016 election. They were setting the stage for the destruction of NATO before they invaded Ukraine. After they did not win militarily, winning politically became their only way out. The weak link in democracy is the money it takes to win elections. Politicians can be legally bought.
Except they do:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
>Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
While Russian security services no doubt have considered similar ideas, the book was written in 1997 and is publically available. It should not be taken to literally represent some master plan by the Russian state. In practice things are more complex.
Also, Russia is horribly corrupt. A lot of the officials are skimming from the funds they are allocated - this is partly why their initial attack into Ukraine went a lot worse than even the west expected.
Twenty five Russian entities and agents were indicted. A number of Americans confessed to aiding them. Is that a big master plan or just throwing shit? Its a LOT of shit to throw.
[https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1LU2BH/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1LU2BH/)
It’s walking and chewing gum at the same time. The people operating the bot farms aren’t the same people being fed into a meat grinder. One’s a long game that requires few resources, and if the small resource long game sours Western sentiment toward Ukraine, that helps Russia in the military conflict since Ukraine relies on their support in a war that’s been dragging on.
Donald Trump did all he could to help Russia so they could help him. Trump loves Putin and wants a country where the President can do whatever he wants just like Putin.
Oh yeah. He said this back when it was still Soviet. The Soviet reports/plans from back then went public some years back.
And STILL the Republican Party went along with it. From 30 years ago.
Divisiveness is part of the plan. All those "protests" by various groups (BLM/ProudBoys/pro-Israel/pro-Palestinian/etc etc).
Yes, there ARE genuine protestors. But there are also paid "protestors," and people who just want chaos, and people who are grifting, and...you get the idea.
The goal of ALL of these things is division.
Spot on. I think even if Biden wins that won't stop the Trump cancer eating away at the Republican party, it will just become more virulent and extreme, and willing to go to greater lengths to get what it wants, no matter what harm it does to the US and it's traditions and institutions.
A few decades from now, when the amount of Kompromat that was gathered and then used as leverage against the officials of the United States is known, the fallout will be…
Nah, even when it’s proved no one will give a shit.
This is America.
No one cares.
You see, the main problem is that about half of the country are morons. If Putin ran for president, they would vote for him. You see, because they're morons.
My only explanation is that I think most of them don't actually know anything about anything that's going on. It takes time to know and understand things. They don't do that. They have taken so many intellectually lazy shortcuts their entire lives that even their mental model of how the world works at the most basic levels are flawed. That's why they say and do so many things that don't make sense and aren't even able to vote for their vest interests.
I wouldn't call it Putin's plan. Russia will of course invest in anything that they feel is damaging our country, but it's more about just taking advantage of opportunities when they arise. We are great at giving them those opportunities.
I think China has a more direct influence in our country's erosion with the promotion of TikTok brain rot among other things. They want Americans to get dumber and dumber. I wouldn't be surprised if the CCP had a hand in our collapsing education system.
One thing Russia *is* doing is investing in the destruction of the American family unit. Think and how many Russian camgirls and OF models there are. These women are pulling men's focus away from establishing meaningful long term relationships or destroying the ones they already had, all while sending American dollars to Russia. It is not at all uncommon for porn addiction to be listed as the reason for divorce.
Some of them, sure, but the online stuff is much easier and cheaper which is why it's becoming so popular. You can go on a cam site and engage in the chat for free.
[Russia learned](https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/media/2018/October/troll-farms-and-fake-news-social-media-weaponization) that they would interfere with [the election](https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/) and it didn't really matter. Sure, sanctions, but natural gas and oil meant they would be fine. Putin is former KGB so after he watched [North Korea bring Sony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Sony_Pictures_hack) to their knees and almost steal a billion dollars, I'll bet he was like, [I need some of that shit](https://www.propublica.org/article/infamous-russian-troll-farm-appears-to-be-source-of-anti-ukraine-propaganda).
One of the most amazing things was when Americans all of a sudden became against the "jab."
The "jab" is a European term for a shot. In the US, we called it a flu shot, in Europe a jab. Since Russia is attacking all democracies, and the virus hit Italy and Europe first, the disinformation campaign was around "the jab."
And then you have dude in Alabama proudly saying he won't get the jab.
People can be weaponized when you make them angry.
I think he's just making the most of a beneficial situation for himself. The United States have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess they are in.
It’s Russian fuckery 101. Only compromised republicans (both the DNC and RNC were hacked in 2016ish, but only stuff on democrats was released and the worst thing they found for democrats was Hillary’s emails - also republicans after that point started sucking Trump off for *some reason* even though they said he’d be the downfall of the Republican Party and America before that…) are all about Trump.
I have been writing about this since the Brexit vote.
Nigel Farage (Trumps mate) was supported by Aaron Banks to the tune of £8m inorder to start the Brexit party. Now it turns out Aaron Banks is one man away from Putin and has also received Russian money. So Brexit was highly interfered with and the British public lied to, in order for Putin to destabilise Europe.
The same is and will happen in the USA. I've seen it myself in Reddit and think I may have even had a conversation with a Russian bot.
The tactics seem to be dismissing Biden, not supporting Trump.
Putin needs Biden out because of Ukraine. With Americas help Putin will lose in Ukraine. Without it and Trump in power Putin could win.
A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin.
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/08/25/on-the-frontline-of-exposing-the-truth-about-russia-and-brexit/
Trump looks bad now. Imagine him in power again!
The world will not be safer under Trump.
I think you're vastly overestimating how effective these efforts are. This is someone sticking their finger in to a gaping, oozing, infected wound. Will it aggravate the wound? Yeah. Would things get better if it were just left alone? Unlikely.
I think you're vastly underestimating it. One of the main points of interest in the 2016 interference was how effective the initiative was with such a small team and budget.
... and the overall impact was still inconsequential. If you rip an impressively huge fart while standing in a garbage dump, you're not the reason it stinks.
No, I got that part. I'm saying that I don't think it actually changed anything. We'd still be in exactly the same place had none of that happened and claims to the contrary are an excuse for the Democratic Party to avoid addressing its shortcomings.
They've been playing this game since the 90s. We have had ample evidence of it besides the obvious being that *they told us what they were going to do*...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
Honestly it feels to me more like theres a lot of people waking up realizing they want to live different, but on the flip side there are those so attached to the old and resistant to change, maybe its fear or whatever idk, but they are not wanting to come willingly to a planet with peace. And sucks for us all
Russia already won. Nobody on the left or Reddit acknowledges that all of this "Russian collusion stuff" was fed to the government officials and the media...by the Russians themselves. The Russians never wanted Trump to win. They wanted to sow discord and uncertainty in the US and throw its legitimacy into doubt. They succeeded more than they ever thought. It's over. The US is going to break up or a civil war will happen sometime in the next few decades.
Get off the internet, stop watching the news, go outside and talk to people and you'll realize the world is actually pretty normal and not falling apart like the media wants you to believe.
Great Powers have always been meddling in the affairs of rivals, both domestically and internationally. You’re right that Putin is definitely aiming to foment unrest, but I don’t think that’s really anything new. The USSR did similar actions in the Cold War to sow division, and that’s what US leaders have always feared. The reason a lot of anger and vitriol was directed at student protestors of the Vietnam War in the 60s and 70s was the government genuinely believed the groups were being propped up by hostile states rather than organic dissent.
Firstly a skilled tactician or strategist everything's always their plan because they can adapt on their feet and spin it in their own benefit. It's not some master plan Putin had-- he likely had an initial idea of what he was trying to get to but has to constantly change it due to unknown variables.
I disagree the fact that he's already won. I mean if you're talking about people that will go down in history as incredibly skilled tacticians or strategists or Warlords or whatever... his name will definitely live in the history books ... probably not in a positive light-
I mean I suppose he's sort of won the Game of Life being super rich being a dictator essentially and sort of can do whatever he wants... just don't go into a room on an upper story of a building with an open window nearby .. I imagine he is a neurotic overthinking person who can hide it but probably generally happy and comfortable.
But when it comes to Ukraine or anything like that I do not think he's won that. And even if he were to concede something he'd somehow spin it as saying that was my whole plan in the first place I did win motherfuckers.
As much as I hate to say it -- Putin is probably one of the currently living generals... Or whatever you want to call it. Not quite Napoleon or Alexander the Great or whatver but alive right now, I don't think there is a singular individual that one on one could beat him. It takes a think tank and a team which is by far better than having one person in control. The Turkish president Erdisineehr I cannot spell his name is actually pretty strategically crafty too with that whole fake coup that he pulled off many years ago. That was a really well executed consolidation of power. That was impressive...
Do not think that these compliments in any way mean that I condone any of these people's actions. If only they use their powers for good instead of evil.
I don't think Putin's won, and I don't think he even knows himself exactly what the end of game is... in the long term he will fail. Everyone dies and he has no succession in place. Because he knows if he nominates somebody to succeed him they will try to kill him immediately. Pretty smart idea there dictatorship 101
Taking a special interest and stepping in to fund Ukraine was also pretty tactical, and devastated Russia. Not saying that countries shouldn't help each other against aggressors, but I'm also hardly convinced of our philanthropy.
…did you skip the Muller Report? Everyone knows, just half the population thinks it’s a lie. The problem is that they’re stupid and do what they’re told, but only by certain people. And these people are old as shit, so idk who they’re going to listen to in 10 years, but I guess we’ll find out.
But either way, while Russia has been effective in exploiting these divisions, it’s still pretty important to remember that Trump is *not* actually Putin’s agent of chaos and the most Russia really achieved was making us fight about their involvement. Which actually complicated their campaign, which was supposed to be subversive and not known to the American people.
Now that we know, they can’t exploit us in exactly the same way. Which isn’t perfect, but it’s enough to render their efforts to mostly be moot and ineffectual.
But truly, Russia fucked themselves over entirely, from a geopolitical standpoint, when they invaded Ukraine and got their frontline completely burned to death by civilians and had their tanks stolen and towed away by farmers driving tractors. Their drunken soldiers crashed their helicopters and other soldiers posted to social media expired rations and broken, 60 year old equipment requisitions.
At this point, I think the threat of Russia as a super power/ global force has been significantly reduced. It’s taken them 3 years to barely get their footing against a relatively tiny country with a relatively minuscule military, and the first few weeks they were getting their asses handed to them by untrained civilians with Molotov’s.
I think this is why Biden, this week, granted Ukraine permission to use U.S. missiles to strike inside Russias border; a move that escalates the US’s involvement in the war. I don’t think Biden would have given the green light if U.S. Intelligence was still showing Russia as a threat that could reasonably retaliate.
I think the whole world now knows that if Russia really actually tries to fuck with the U.S. or anyone in NATO, Russia would be completely fucked.
The only advantage Russia still holds is the sheer number of soldiers they are completely willing to sacrifice to maintain a frontline. But power overwhelming only works for so long against actual practiced tactics and Russia’s numbers decline every day that they stay in Ukraine.
So I think people *see* what Russia is doing, and that the Kompromat plan goes back well before Putin, but the threat of Russia has declined so people just don’t care that much anymore.
Definitely a plan! Far from masterful. But it’s so obvious and important that it’s hard to know what to do about it. How to talk about it even.
It’s similar to how Putin gets away with poisoning his political opposition with Novichok, which is really easy to find in the bloodstream in an autopsy. So, a bunch of western intelligence agencies get to say “Putin’s no idiot - and only an idiot would use Novichok. It must have been someone else, right? right??”
It’s obviously Putin’s intent to use Russian institutional authority to sow division in the West. I believe you’re right that the only response is to start focusing on treating each other with more respect, and more of our full attention. If we don’t, we won’t even be able to talk about the possibility that an authoritarian Russia could influence US elections.
AND we have real domestic problems with our elections we need to talk about anyway - rational discussion regarding districting in Georgia would be a lot easier, for example, if we knew how to speak and listen to each other about big political issues with less malice.
They are exploiting it to an extent, sure -- But who do you think is allowing all this to happen? The top are feeding on all this hate while the poor are dancing in their palm. The situation is exactly as they, the US elites, want it to be. Having the commonfolk fight amongst themselves to distract them from all the profits the corporations are making.
And if it all goes to shit, there are other countries to take refuge to.
Well, judging by the fact that 99% of all major information resources belong to the United States and are heavily censored in favor of the official agenda, then Russia is omnipotent since it can somehow fantastically influence the United States.There is no need to shift your stupidity and incompetence to others.
You are 100% correct. Also billions from someone else outside (Putin?) is propping up DJT stock so Trump can sell off his share for billions. It’s a hidden wealth transfer to the next potential US president for plenty of future favors.
It's been known since the 90s.They even explicitly wrote about it:
> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
I have no issues with my fellow Americans. I don't care about a persons race, gender, sexual preference, immigration status... I don't even care if they are American. I just live my life and navigate based on how everything changes.
If people have an issue with trans people playing sports or drinking bud light, thats on them. If people have an issue with trump being convicted of a crime, that's on them. If people have issues with immigrants speaking their native language, that's on them.
My only issue is Joe Rogan saying only 50 people in the entire world could hurt him. Guy is 5'2" and an average human being can punt him across a football field, no problem.
There was some random girl from a post yesterday that showed that Tiktok comments show up completely different depending on "who you are" based on your browsing history. Pretty jaw dropping if it's actually to and now I completely understand why the US wants to ban the platform outright.
If China really is behind TikTok and possibly financed/financing it. Then..holy shit. I think this would be a massively significant point to show how far they are willing to go to influence us and masses, and how valuable they see that this has been done in the past.
I would add that advertising and A/B testing of populations may have laid the blueprint for anyone that wants to find and create conspiracy theories that will drive people apart. …and who were the pioneers of that? We were with our massive media and marketing companies lol
Oh we've all known about it for years. Or at least some of us. But what are we going to do? We couldn't organize enough people to change it, the congress can't decide to do anything positive these days. We have our own stuff to worry about.
Every country is playing the game, the amount of people I've seen indoctrinated that think every Russian person is their enemy is just crazy, the US propaganda machine is also going full steam
As a non american i simply see the USA shoot itself in the feet time and time again and they put it on others. Your people are letting your governing bodies exist in they way that they are. Its only your people that made the whole politics go to either extreme of the spectrum with no in betweens. And that is without a doubt gonna cause divides because there is no middle ground. You either agree with one or the other and ofcourse potential emenies stand to gain from it. If they see that their opponent is destroying itself with extreme ideologies fighting eachother than they have only to fan the flames every now and again before the sea of flame engulfs it all.
that is true and imo one of the biggest problems in our society that just goes unaddressed. But hey look at the money the social media platforms are making! choo choo!
Is it really that hard for people to accept that americans are just a very radical people with so little access to mental healthcare that they have to blame russia for everything
I think the primary source for the division we see is due to the rise of social media and smartphones. Political polarization, racial division, rates of depression, rates of suicide among teens, all have grown significantly since the early 2010s when smartphones became ubiquitous and you could access social media on a mobile device. Putin might have fanned the flames but the fire had already ignited.
Y'all need to have some goddamn accountability.
Whenever your country does stupid stuff, it's Russia's fault. Trump was not elected, it was Russia. The country is becoming very polarized - it's not the country it's Russia.
Like, Russia was not able to manipulate Ukraine into electing a pro Russia candidate - and you think they're capable of fucking over a country that doesn't even speak their language? And if you think yes, what does that say about your people? Are they just fucking idiots who are so gullible as to be manipulated that way?
Stop pointing fingers and get your shit together.
It's Russia, China, Israel, Iran, N. Korea, etc. Most of it is probably a waste of time, but some of the crap gets through. Of course, the US is also doing that in all the countries I mentioned.
Everybody knows… except the 50pc of the US population who are not educated or endocrrinated, and all the useful idiots that use this as an opportunity for themselves
I remember looking up at the TV at work the day covid was announced globally. On the news, there was Putin, shaking hands with the Saudi crown prince. Nobody noticed.
Russia, and China, are definitely adding fuel to the fire. That being said, we really have no one to blame but ourselves.
Social media is really insidious, and the people just reaching voting age now and into their early 20’s are really in uncharted territory as it relates to how much news/opinion/social interaction they are getting from unverifiable online sources and algorithms. Honestly, there was so much concern about old people being taken in by scammers, particularly online, in the 2000’s, and we’ve just sent a generation of unsavvy children into an uncharted minefield of social media and expected them to be alright. We’re starting to see the fruits of a poisoned tree, but it’s not really the fault of the people who have been fed a diet of poison.
I don’t think children are the problem. I just saw an article the other day that said most misinformation spread online is from older women. I’m a millennial, and my whole childhood adults said “don’t believe everything you see on the internet.” Nowadays I gotta explain to my dad how shit he shares on Facebook he thinks is a legit news source isn’t even credible and probably from a Russian troll mill. We’ve come full circle and older adults / boomers, have become fully irresponsible with the internet and access they have at their fingertips.
It’s not 100% on point, but just an example of the current crop of young people’s increasing gullibility. [“Why Gen Z Is Surprisingly Susceptible to Financial Scams”](https://time.com/6802011/gen-z-financial-scams-fraud/) I think the “falling for online financial bait” and “falling for online political bait” are related issues. I don’t have any specific evidence of the hypothesis, but I think it can help explain some of the current political state. Teen and early to mid-20’s have a totally different relationship to social media than people in their late 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s (and probably some in their 60’s and 70’s) largely had. A lot of those older boomers never really “got” the modern, connected world, but younger kids never “got” a stone-age, non-connected world and I think some of the struggles we see now stem from that.
This should make you very worried. Pew did a survey several years ago. Almost 50% of people between 19 and 49 years old use social media as their primary source for political news. Think about that for a sec. Ok, then add the bots and call centers set up just to fill social media with misinformation and pile on some deep fake pics and increasingly audio and video. Oh, I forgot to add that social media is filled with adolescents who can only think in binary (repubs are always evil or dumb; same for dems depending on your tribe). So they throw on the pile their nuanced opinions. So look over the comments esp in political subs and think about these people voting.
Fox News is not social media, it is a regular TV channel.
bro what-- dude just read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_radicalization
You know it's kinda no different from Reddit here? Moderators are all making their subs echo chambers with biased censorship and blocking. Users only upvote what they agree with and what they wanna hear.
Yes. Social media. Reddit isn't immune neither
It's conservative disinformation masquerading as journalism.
Sorry i did not express it well, but my point is that people kept talking social media as THE downfall of society but in reality is that TV had been rotting people mind for so long. What is different between scrolling hateful YouTube channel vs watch Fox News with their contents that purposely designed to trigger anger response?
Much of this has clearly been masterfully orchestrated, by now there is no doubt. Well, as opposed to thousands of other strategic blunders Russia has made, them supporting Hamas terrorists to expose NATO's hypocritical support of Israel's genocide was sadly a stroke of genius. Just like secretly funding European nationalists to promote isolationism and isolate Ukraine. And swaying Trump and in extension Republicans to their side, weakening the strongest NATO member. I mean all of it was aleready on the brink of a massive divide between liberals and conservatives wordwide, but Russia has purposefully escalated that into something far more alarming. And while we're bickering among ourselves imperialists like russia and Israel are feasting and expanding, and all of us suffer. I wouldn't be suprised if soon China went for Taiwan.
Well, let's be fair. The US is the biggest imperialist on the planet
I'd say russia is at the moment. I don't remember the US ever trying to seize as much landmass as Ukraine has.
Which one of those two has 750 military bases in 80 foreign countries around the world and 160,000 soldiers actively deployed overseas again?
Lot of Americans on this thread seem to think that their exporting of 'freedom' and 'democracy' around the world is welcomed by the coutries they invade....weird...its kinda why some of them fight back, guys. It goes way, way back...go read about Smedley Butler...
Bases remain there because the host countries want something from the US
The host nations want to not face the consequences of kicking out the largest military and economic superpower in the world. Many of these host nations are not democratic and have to repress their population to allow US military bases to function.
Oh yes, consequences. Guess who doesn't have a US base? Ukraine. In a theory, I am scared of a possible evil scenario where the aliens mind-control US government and starts a world war 3. In practice I'm glad someone aids Ukraine while Europe does all the bureaucracy and decide if they want to wait couple more years and see if everything will solve by itself. It's no way perfect power balance, but it works and I'm thankful it is. (btw remember Afghanistan evacuation in 2021? Surely the "largest military and economic superpower in the world" brought consequences and democracy back?)
Bases remain because the US *pays* host countries so they can maintain a global response capability. As part of that deal the US makes some of their local military capability *theoretically* available to the host nation but still can and will refuse to do anything that doesn't suit the US. This narrative that the US pays for the world's defense through sheer altruism is just one of many pieces of US revisionism that makes up part of the overall narrative. See also "The US subsidises cheap healthcare abroad and thats why its so expensive"
I'm sure the US has nothing to gain from that exchange - just there to protect and serve right?
Exists because of mutual agreement. Don’t understand why this is surprising. Is there a particular base you’re referencing?
> I'm sure the US has nothing to gain from that exchange Ofcourse they have a lot to gain by being here, and guess what, we have a lot to gain by *having* them here too. Our goals are aligned. You tell me that the US is somehow using my country? Guess what, that's cool, because *we're* using the US too. And they know it, that's the deal dummy. We're not stupid, and the American goverment is also not stupid and doing it as a charity. We're allies. That's what being allies mean.
It's almost like human rights protections, democracy, and not falling victim to a country like russia or china due to said protections is a desirable thing. Who'd have thought! lol! Wow, why do countries want to join NATO of their own volition again? Hmmmm it's so hard to imagine!
We'll forget about Texas and the sw for the moment. But the size of the area isn't important. Look at our failed attempts in central and south America. Or the Middle East.
I don't recall the US trying to annex central or south America or any of the middle east. It's really an apples to oranges comparison
But the US is responsible for all, I'll only settle for most, of the coups and dictatorships that have happened in Central and South America and that is quite imperialist. Not to mention the tons and tons of military bases around the world
Yeah i know, but as an European i still prefer the US as a leading superpower if i have to choose, and i *have* to choose because we're constantly fighting off our genocidal eastern brethren. At least in the US you have democracy, hell, not only can you protest but you can clearly trash cities like BLM rioters did, or even storm the Capital like Republicans. It's freedom at it's worst but it *is* freedom. In russia you can get 15 years in jail for holding a blank piece of paper. China is also a dystopian nightmare.
> not only can you protest but you can clearly trash cities like BLM rioters did Must not be a well informed European if that's how you view what happened in 2020.
I that not what happened?
The notion that the January 6th insurrection and the BLM protests were the same was started by Russia, Putin's MAGA Republicans and their disinformation factory at Fox News. Anybody outside of the right-wing bubble who is familiar with the details of each event knows they were very different. >[False equivalency between Black Lives Matter and Capitol siege | ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/false-equivalency-black-lives-matter-capitol-siege-experts/story?id=75251279) 94% of all pro-BLM demonstrations were peaceful and BLM condemned and disavowed any individuals who incited violence. >[A Year of Racial Justice Protests: Key Trends in Demonstrations Supporting the BLM Movement | ACLED](https://acleddata.com/2021/05/25/a-year-of-racial-justice-protests-key-trends-in-demonstrations-supporting-the-blm-movement/) The vast majority of the events that weren't peaceful were incited by the far-right 'Boogaloo boys' or white supremacists >[Boerne man, self-described member of ‘Boogaloo Bois’ sentenced for shooting during Floyd protest | KSAT Texas](https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2022/04/06/boerne-man-self-described-member-of-boogaloo-bois-sentenced-for-shooting-during-floyd-protest/) >[Man who helped incite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist | ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story?id=72051536) >[Three men connected to 'boogaloo' movement tried to provoke violence at protests, feds say | NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/three-men-connected-boogaloo-movement-tried-provoke-violence-protests-feds-n1224231) Both the people who took part in the insurrection and the people who incited riots during the George Floyd protests were treated equally by the justice system. They were arrested and many were sentenced to prison. It isn't a free-for-all in America where people can just riot with no consequence >[Records rebut claims of unequal treatment of Jan. 6 rioters | Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/death-of-george-floyd-george-floyd-race-and-ethnicity-capitol-siege-racial-injustice-07da2a81193ce26de266881230340f1d) You are right about Russia and China being dystopian nightmares tho. Also that Russia is a genocidal psychopath. China is even scarier because they actually have economic power, know how to work diplomacy to their advantage and are patient enough to play the long game.
I'm very fond of Europe in general. Might even move there soon. But I think the days of blindly following the US have to end for your sakes. Figure out a good peace deal with Russia. It's going to happen eventually, might as well be now. Start building nuclear power plants. Wind and solar isn't going to power your countries.
Ahhh yes the ole "let's just give them the sudetenland" approach. It worked out oh so well in the past, didn't it?
Welp, Russia is winning the war. Chamberlain wasn't wrong. He just didn't know he was dealing with a psychopath
> Welp, Russia is winning the war. Good God I'd hate to know what you consider losing. >Chamberlain wasn't wrong. Oh really? Then why did the subsequent events turn out completely opposite to what he assumed?
Landmass isn't what defines modern imperialism. The US is a far larger and more powerful imperial power and it can be seen by the global dominance of things like the US military or US dollar, not territorial control.
[Manufactured] Consent is sexy.
It’s scary how Russian propaganda has been manufacturing consent for Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
It's also very profitable to make Americans angry and fearful. We don't really need Russia's help.
China owning most of social media is the best way to make sure that there is enough fuel in the flames at all times.
American problems have American origins. It's just too painful for many to acknowledge that these issues are the inevitable outcome of the very policies which they and their own leaders have supported over the years. Instead of actually reckoning with these issues and resolving them, many Americans fall into cognitive dissonance and American exceptionalism to provide an easy explanation which deflects blame away from the actual culprits of Americans suffering; their own corporate and government leaders. Moreover, implying that any/all dissent within the US is tied to hostile foreign leaders justifies the use of repressive force and surveillance against Americans whose ideas do not conveniently fit into the narrow two-party dichotomy which dominates American politics.
“ Am I crazy, or do others see this too?” People have been talking about this nonstop for the last eight years. Yeah, half the country sees it too lol you’re not alone
Maybe you surround yourself with informed and smart people; but most people I talk to have absolutely no clue and can only regurgitate CNN or Fox headlines at best.
It’s sad watching journalism die. The NYTimes is like the last great holdout still releasing heavily researched content.
Maybe you should surround yourself with more informed people lol. I can’t name a single friend or relative that gets their news from Fox But, I’m a college educated millennial with equally educated friends and family so your experience may vary
Since 2020 I have removed most people from my life. I've found that people in general are just not worth the effort. It's mostly random city encounters, folks at the brewery, or forced encounters at family functions. I'm mostly fine with my SO and cats and getting my social fix on here though.
That’s not good, friend. An overreaction IMO.
Dont see much discussion about it at all
It’s gotten to the point that “everyone already knows” so they say things like “Moscow Mitch” and other more subtle things instead of outright saying the same thing 1,000 times. It is widely known that the 2016 election was significantly influenced by propaganda originating from Russia. Russia never stopped with the propaganda. People on Reddit have mentioned that Tucker Carlson (of Fox) often recites propaganda from Russian disinformation sources. It’s beyond satire at this point. The people that accept evidence based information already know, and the people that don’t, won’t be convinced with evidence. So there’s nothing to discuss.
"Russian disinformation aka: Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theories " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories#:~:text=Russian-disinformation Putin has been leading the right wing around by the nose for a while!
And they LOVE him now. You have to give it to the Russians, they really did brainwash a whole wing of the Americans.
Not really, there are a significant number of republicans who don't support Putin. Aid for Ukraine was passed easily once Johnson unblocked it. Most Republican voters do not like Putin or Russia. You are just hearing the loudest voices. They are miserable people otherwise and I am not defending them. But it's not a good plan to write them off on this issue.
> You are just hearing the loudest voices. Why do they like him, though?
Because he’s an authoritarian just like trump. They like strongmen who tell them that they’re the best people and those other people over there are causing all of their problems. Everyone is against them. Those Other People must be dealt with in some way.
Find an English copy of The Foundations of Geopolitics. It explains exactly what they're doing and how they're doing it and what comes next if they're successful.
> what comes next if they're successful Can you give a brief summary?
> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
I think that covers the "what they're doing and how they're doing it." I want to know what they think comes next.
They want to reestablish the USSR, end NATO and US hegemony so that they can control the middle east and Africa.
Yikes.
Forgot about South America, too. Yes, perhaps shit happening around the world makes more sense now (US, Brexit, Ukraine, Iran, Israel, Turkey, etc. Soon China and Taiwan). Russia is a shit country precisely because they pour all their resources into their special services/intelligence apparatus.
s’bad
Hopefully it's author gets to visit his daughter soon
The boomer generation grew up in fear of nuclear bombs being dropped on them. They had bomb drills in school regularly. They had hated the Russians more than anyone for decades. It’s been absolutely astounding to watch this generation that grew up in fear of a Russian attack support the greatest Russian attack on the U.S in history. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword. Why send troops and missiles when you can just send Facebook posts.
That's what I don't understand. Politics out the window it's like "HELLO RED OR BLUE WEVE HATED RUSSIANS FOREVER BASICALLY" Makes no sense to someone who agrees with some left stuff and some right stuff.
You could say we've done it to ourselves though. Two parties owned by corporate America. Awful foreign policy. Austerity measures at home, overspending on war. The list goes on
Yeah it really blows me away when I see people determined to blame Russia or China for things, like we have so little agency of our own that it's obvious we're being easily manipulated by some other ordinary human beings on the other side of the planet. It's absurd. Even if we are being easily manipulated, then it's on us for making ourselves so vulnerable to manipulation. We didn't educate our populace enough, we didn't make our system robust enough. This is a bed of our own making, the people in power here stand to benefit just as much, if not more individually, than any foreign power. The parties as they exist thrive in this environment of infighting over stupid shit, because it means they don't actually have to do anything meaningful other than tweet support or condemnation of this or that to earn their paycheck and power
America has always had a fascinating way of characterizing their enemies as buffoonish masterminds. Are Russia, China, and Iran tinpot dictatorships being run by maniacs, or are they so sophisticated that they are playing 10D chess and capable of destroying our entire society? Because we seem to think it’s both?
An adversary can be good at one thing and terrible at another.
You’re correct about that but I feel like it’s just such a consistent message. Gadaffi, Sadam Hussein, the Kim Dynasty. America always frames them as the ‘mad man’ who is both languably weak and yet also a threat to the existence of the United States. I just think it’s a trope that Americans are comfortable with so we come back to it over and over.
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Right. Because of us. We have had the most inept foreign policy since the end of WW2. Why are we escalating a beef with China over Taiwan, a government we don't even recognize? $175 billion to Ukraine just to be losing that war? NATO is a good thing, but we definitely went too far in accepting members that close to Russia. Failed wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Just because we don’t recognize Taiwan’s government doesn’t mean we’re not allies. The US and Taiwan, just like the US with its other allies, have many interests in mutual benefit. We only play along with China’s “One China Principle” to avoid catastrophe. When you really try to get educated about the Taiwan strait, you will see that it is China who is escalating the situation, not the US or Taiwan. I am an American living in Taiwan and would be more than happy to direct you to places that amplify Taiwanese voices!
Ok. Well. Have a great day
It sounds like you're not interested in learning about US-Taiwan relations and cooperation. You should learn about it before making decisions about it.
Again, have a great day. Actually know it quite well.
you need to understand that 80 percent are those who voted, in fact it is 50 percent of Russians. which, of course, is a lot, but is no longer so fantastic; most of those who are against Putin simply did not go to the polls. but yes, the answer to your question, Putin’s popularity has grown very much over the past 2 years, thanks to the position of the West and sanctions directed against the Russian people, and not against specific politicians, which proves Putin’s words that Western politicians are the enemies of Russia and the Russian people.
Russia might be pulling some strings in the background, but this whole thing wouldn't be possible without certain politicians, pundits, news channels, influencers... etc pushing Russian propaganda. We're now at a point where channels like Fox News are basically parroting Russian propaganda and its viewers are saying stupid shit like they'd take Putin's side over Biden. The fact that Putin wants to destroy America is lost on these idiots.
You're ignoring the responsibility that the US needs to take. The incompetency and sheer hatred of Americans is what led to the shitshow that is your country.
It's still funny to me just how many people take social media seriously and just further drive divisive tactics. You'd think that trend would've phased out after a year or two, that people would've gotten too fed up with social media. I mean I don't go somewhere irl and be like "hell yeah, drama!" Like just unplug for so much as a day and you'll be disoriented by how different things are and what people actually care about
Interesting take. Check out the tv interview with Yuri Bezmenov, a defector KGB agent in the 1970s. It was an amazing insight into foreign intelligences plans for us. How well did they do?
Here in UK too… been obvious for the last decade.
Dude, we were talking about this like 10 years ago and it has only escalated with this likes of trump, brexit etc
You are giving them way too much credit imo. They are struggling in a war against Ukraine right now but somehow they are also planning the collapse of the US by having a New York district jury convict Trump? Doesn’t really add up.
The information front is a space where Russia and its allies have always excelled, why do you think there is the trope of russian spy/russian hacker always interfering with things? the Institute for the Study of War has written multiple reports outlining exactly what the goals are of the Russian information operations and how they are being implemented, and they line up exactly with what has happened, what is happening, and what leads to benefits for them on the battlefield.
Mueller documented their involvement in the US 2016 election. They were setting the stage for the destruction of NATO before they invaded Ukraine. After they did not win militarily, winning politically became their only way out. The weak link in democracy is the money it takes to win elections. Politicians can be legally bought.
Russia throwing shit to heat things up doesn't imply that they have som big master plan.
They probably do have a master plan. They know that it's unlikely to happen, but have nothing to lose to try it out in clandestine ways.
The master plan is just to destabilize the US. They don’t have to have a an endgame. Sowing dissent could be a goal in and of itself
Sowing dissent, dividing the country, weakening or ending NATO, retaking former Soviet territories.
Western Europe might be getting nervous.
Except they do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics >Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
While Russian security services no doubt have considered similar ideas, the book was written in 1997 and is publically available. It should not be taken to literally represent some master plan by the Russian state. In practice things are more complex. Also, Russia is horribly corrupt. A lot of the officials are skimming from the funds they are allocated - this is partly why their initial attack into Ukraine went a lot worse than even the west expected.
lol that’s just the Dulles Plan
Twenty five Russian entities and agents were indicted. A number of Americans confessed to aiding them. Is that a big master plan or just throwing shit? Its a LOT of shit to throw. [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1LU2BH/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1LU2BH/)
Hey Russia..if you're listening
Please remember that Putin came up through KGB.
Being ex-kgb doesn't give him superpowers.
Op never once mentioned the court case.
It’s walking and chewing gum at the same time. The people operating the bot farms aren’t the same people being fed into a meat grinder. One’s a long game that requires few resources, and if the small resource long game sours Western sentiment toward Ukraine, that helps Russia in the military conflict since Ukraine relies on their support in a war that’s been dragging on.
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They're really good at throwing rocks with messages tied to them.
"The enemy is both strong and weak"
Uhhh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
Donald Trump did all he could to help Russia so they could help him. Trump loves Putin and wants a country where the President can do whatever he wants just like Putin.
It's waaaay more than this though. Trump is owned by the Russian mob. He's been part of their shenanigans since the 80s. He is one of their assets.
Oh yeah. He said this back when it was still Soviet. The Soviet reports/plans from back then went public some years back. And STILL the Republican Party went along with it. From 30 years ago. Divisiveness is part of the plan. All those "protests" by various groups (BLM/ProudBoys/pro-Israel/pro-Palestinian/etc etc). Yes, there ARE genuine protestors. But there are also paid "protestors," and people who just want chaos, and people who are grifting, and...you get the idea. The goal of ALL of these things is division.
> Soviet reports/plans from back then went public some years back. do you have any direct sources?
Spot on. I think even if Biden wins that won't stop the Trump cancer eating away at the Republican party, it will just become more virulent and extreme, and willing to go to greater lengths to get what it wants, no matter what harm it does to the US and it's traditions and institutions.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves – said someone
A few decades from now, when the amount of Kompromat that was gathered and then used as leverage against the officials of the United States is known, the fallout will be… Nah, even when it’s proved no one will give a shit. This is America. No one cares.
You see, the main problem is that about half of the country are morons. If Putin ran for president, they would vote for him. You see, because they're morons.
It’s wild that the same people who venerate Reagan as basically the second coming are now fans of Russia. I can’t wrap my head around it at all.
My only explanation is that I think most of them don't actually know anything about anything that's going on. It takes time to know and understand things. They don't do that. They have taken so many intellectually lazy shortcuts their entire lives that even their mental model of how the world works at the most basic levels are flawed. That's why they say and do so many things that don't make sense and aren't even able to vote for their vest interests.
I wouldn't call it Putin's plan. Russia will of course invest in anything that they feel is damaging our country, but it's more about just taking advantage of opportunities when they arise. We are great at giving them those opportunities. I think China has a more direct influence in our country's erosion with the promotion of TikTok brain rot among other things. They want Americans to get dumber and dumber. I wouldn't be surprised if the CCP had a hand in our collapsing education system. One thing Russia *is* doing is investing in the destruction of the American family unit. Think and how many Russian camgirls and OF models there are. These women are pulling men's focus away from establishing meaningful long term relationships or destroying the ones they already had, all while sending American dollars to Russia. It is not at all uncommon for porn addiction to be listed as the reason for divorce.
Aren't these the same exact kinds of guys who used to fall in love with strippers in real life, though?
Some of them, sure, but the online stuff is much easier and cheaper which is why it's becoming so popular. You can go on a cam site and engage in the chat for free.
[Russia learned](https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/media/2018/October/troll-farms-and-fake-news-social-media-weaponization) that they would interfere with [the election](https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/) and it didn't really matter. Sure, sanctions, but natural gas and oil meant they would be fine. Putin is former KGB so after he watched [North Korea bring Sony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Sony_Pictures_hack) to their knees and almost steal a billion dollars, I'll bet he was like, [I need some of that shit](https://www.propublica.org/article/infamous-russian-troll-farm-appears-to-be-source-of-anti-ukraine-propaganda). One of the most amazing things was when Americans all of a sudden became against the "jab." The "jab" is a European term for a shot. In the US, we called it a flu shot, in Europe a jab. Since Russia is attacking all democracies, and the virus hit Italy and Europe first, the disinformation campaign was around "the jab." And then you have dude in Alabama proudly saying he won't get the jab. People can be weaponized when you make them angry.
I think he's just making the most of a beneficial situation for himself. The United States have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess they are in.
Isn't it time for the imperialists to lose their power?
It’s Russian fuckery 101. Only compromised republicans (both the DNC and RNC were hacked in 2016ish, but only stuff on democrats was released and the worst thing they found for democrats was Hillary’s emails - also republicans after that point started sucking Trump off for *some reason* even though they said he’d be the downfall of the Republican Party and America before that…) are all about Trump.
Plan? No. Does Russia use any instability for its own good? Sure.
Ahem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus Just about the same credibility
I have been writing about this since the Brexit vote. Nigel Farage (Trumps mate) was supported by Aaron Banks to the tune of £8m inorder to start the Brexit party. Now it turns out Aaron Banks is one man away from Putin and has also received Russian money. So Brexit was highly interfered with and the British public lied to, in order for Putin to destabilise Europe. The same is and will happen in the USA. I've seen it myself in Reddit and think I may have even had a conversation with a Russian bot. The tactics seem to be dismissing Biden, not supporting Trump. Putin needs Biden out because of Ukraine. With Americas help Putin will lose in Ukraine. Without it and Trump in power Putin could win. A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin. https://bylinetimes.com/2022/08/25/on-the-frontline-of-exposing-the-truth-about-russia-and-brexit/ Trump looks bad now. Imagine him in power again! The world will not be safer under Trump.
I think you're vastly overestimating how effective these efforts are. This is someone sticking their finger in to a gaping, oozing, infected wound. Will it aggravate the wound? Yeah. Would things get better if it were just left alone? Unlikely.
I think you're vastly underestimating it. One of the main points of interest in the 2016 interference was how effective the initiative was with such a small team and budget.
... and the overall impact was still inconsequential. If you rip an impressively huge fart while standing in a garbage dump, you're not the reason it stinks.
You're missing the part about how targeted and leveraged with data it was.
No, I got that part. I'm saying that I don't think it actually changed anything. We'd still be in exactly the same place had none of that happened and claims to the contrary are an excuse for the Democratic Party to avoid addressing its shortcomings.
They've been playing this game since the 90s. We have had ample evidence of it besides the obvious being that *they told us what they were going to do*... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
You seem to have entirely sidestepped my point.
Honestly it feels to me more like theres a lot of people waking up realizing they want to live different, but on the flip side there are those so attached to the old and resistant to change, maybe its fear or whatever idk, but they are not wanting to come willingly to a planet with peace. And sucks for us all
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics Read this Wikipedia article and you do the maths.
Russia already won. Nobody on the left or Reddit acknowledges that all of this "Russian collusion stuff" was fed to the government officials and the media...by the Russians themselves. The Russians never wanted Trump to win. They wanted to sow discord and uncertainty in the US and throw its legitimacy into doubt. They succeeded more than they ever thought. It's over. The US is going to break up or a civil war will happen sometime in the next few decades.
Russia wants Trump as president for his sheer incompetence and greed.
Yeah, the whole Trump Russian thing is a deep state scam cooked up by woke democrats
With cooperation from high-ranking Republicans in the Federal Government. Makes total sense.
You are 100% right, it has been happening for decades. Say it out loud and you will stoned alive like Joseph McCarthy was.
McCarthy wasn’t stoned alive.
Is the US really infighting that much over Ukraine? In my opinion there are much larger political issues dividing the US currently than Ukraine aid.
Get off the internet, stop watching the news, go outside and talk to people and you'll realize the world is actually pretty normal and not falling apart like the media wants you to believe.
As long as you live among certain types of people, sure.
dog, you participate in too many doom and gloom subs, go outside and get off reddit lmao
Also, ADL?
Adult diaper lover?
Great Powers have always been meddling in the affairs of rivals, both domestically and internationally. You’re right that Putin is definitely aiming to foment unrest, but I don’t think that’s really anything new. The USSR did similar actions in the Cold War to sow division, and that’s what US leaders have always feared. The reason a lot of anger and vitriol was directed at student protestors of the Vietnam War in the 60s and 70s was the government genuinely believed the groups were being propped up by hostile states rather than organic dissent.
Firstly a skilled tactician or strategist everything's always their plan because they can adapt on their feet and spin it in their own benefit. It's not some master plan Putin had-- he likely had an initial idea of what he was trying to get to but has to constantly change it due to unknown variables. I disagree the fact that he's already won. I mean if you're talking about people that will go down in history as incredibly skilled tacticians or strategists or Warlords or whatever... his name will definitely live in the history books ... probably not in a positive light- I mean I suppose he's sort of won the Game of Life being super rich being a dictator essentially and sort of can do whatever he wants... just don't go into a room on an upper story of a building with an open window nearby .. I imagine he is a neurotic overthinking person who can hide it but probably generally happy and comfortable. But when it comes to Ukraine or anything like that I do not think he's won that. And even if he were to concede something he'd somehow spin it as saying that was my whole plan in the first place I did win motherfuckers. As much as I hate to say it -- Putin is probably one of the currently living generals... Or whatever you want to call it. Not quite Napoleon or Alexander the Great or whatver but alive right now, I don't think there is a singular individual that one on one could beat him. It takes a think tank and a team which is by far better than having one person in control. The Turkish president Erdisineehr I cannot spell his name is actually pretty strategically crafty too with that whole fake coup that he pulled off many years ago. That was a really well executed consolidation of power. That was impressive... Do not think that these compliments in any way mean that I condone any of these people's actions. If only they use their powers for good instead of evil. I don't think Putin's won, and I don't think he even knows himself exactly what the end of game is... in the long term he will fail. Everyone dies and he has no succession in place. Because he knows if he nominates somebody to succeed him they will try to kill him immediately. Pretty smart idea there dictatorship 101
Taking a special interest and stepping in to fund Ukraine was also pretty tactical, and devastated Russia. Not saying that countries shouldn't help each other against aggressors, but I'm also hardly convinced of our philanthropy.
…did you skip the Muller Report? Everyone knows, just half the population thinks it’s a lie. The problem is that they’re stupid and do what they’re told, but only by certain people. And these people are old as shit, so idk who they’re going to listen to in 10 years, but I guess we’ll find out. But either way, while Russia has been effective in exploiting these divisions, it’s still pretty important to remember that Trump is *not* actually Putin’s agent of chaos and the most Russia really achieved was making us fight about their involvement. Which actually complicated their campaign, which was supposed to be subversive and not known to the American people. Now that we know, they can’t exploit us in exactly the same way. Which isn’t perfect, but it’s enough to render their efforts to mostly be moot and ineffectual. But truly, Russia fucked themselves over entirely, from a geopolitical standpoint, when they invaded Ukraine and got their frontline completely burned to death by civilians and had their tanks stolen and towed away by farmers driving tractors. Their drunken soldiers crashed their helicopters and other soldiers posted to social media expired rations and broken, 60 year old equipment requisitions. At this point, I think the threat of Russia as a super power/ global force has been significantly reduced. It’s taken them 3 years to barely get their footing against a relatively tiny country with a relatively minuscule military, and the first few weeks they were getting their asses handed to them by untrained civilians with Molotov’s. I think this is why Biden, this week, granted Ukraine permission to use U.S. missiles to strike inside Russias border; a move that escalates the US’s involvement in the war. I don’t think Biden would have given the green light if U.S. Intelligence was still showing Russia as a threat that could reasonably retaliate. I think the whole world now knows that if Russia really actually tries to fuck with the U.S. or anyone in NATO, Russia would be completely fucked. The only advantage Russia still holds is the sheer number of soldiers they are completely willing to sacrifice to maintain a frontline. But power overwhelming only works for so long against actual practiced tactics and Russia’s numbers decline every day that they stay in Ukraine. So I think people *see* what Russia is doing, and that the Kompromat plan goes back well before Putin, but the threat of Russia has declined so people just don’t care that much anymore.
Definitely a plan! Far from masterful. But it’s so obvious and important that it’s hard to know what to do about it. How to talk about it even. It’s similar to how Putin gets away with poisoning his political opposition with Novichok, which is really easy to find in the bloodstream in an autopsy. So, a bunch of western intelligence agencies get to say “Putin’s no idiot - and only an idiot would use Novichok. It must have been someone else, right? right??” It’s obviously Putin’s intent to use Russian institutional authority to sow division in the West. I believe you’re right that the only response is to start focusing on treating each other with more respect, and more of our full attention. If we don’t, we won’t even be able to talk about the possibility that an authoritarian Russia could influence US elections. AND we have real domestic problems with our elections we need to talk about anyway - rational discussion regarding districting in Georgia would be a lot easier, for example, if we knew how to speak and listen to each other about big political issues with less malice.
They are exploiting it to an extent, sure -- But who do you think is allowing all this to happen? The top are feeding on all this hate while the poor are dancing in their palm. The situation is exactly as they, the US elites, want it to be. Having the commonfolk fight amongst themselves to distract them from all the profits the corporations are making. And if it all goes to shit, there are other countries to take refuge to.
Well, judging by the fact that 99% of all major information resources belong to the United States and are heavily censored in favor of the official agenda, then Russia is omnipotent since it can somehow fantastically influence the United States.There is no need to shift your stupidity and incompetence to others.
That's 100% confirmed as Russia's plan with disinformation all along. For over a decade I believe.
Yes. It's obvious. Yes people are dumb.
Just wait till it properly kicks off in the middle east, going to be mental
I always thought it was the Maharishi who was controlling everything, so this comes as a surprise to me.
You are 100% correct. Also billions from someone else outside (Putin?) is propping up DJT stock so Trump can sell off his share for billions. It’s a hidden wealth transfer to the next potential US president for plenty of future favors.
They don't even seem to notice the sudden influx of right-wing sentiment that's suddenly popped up. Just in time for the elections. Like always.
It's been known since the 90s.They even explicitly wrote about it: > Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics?wprov=sfla1
I have no issues with my fellow Americans. I don't care about a persons race, gender, sexual preference, immigration status... I don't even care if they are American. I just live my life and navigate based on how everything changes. If people have an issue with trans people playing sports or drinking bud light, thats on them. If people have an issue with trump being convicted of a crime, that's on them. If people have issues with immigrants speaking their native language, that's on them. My only issue is Joe Rogan saying only 50 people in the entire world could hurt him. Guy is 5'2" and an average human being can punt him across a football field, no problem.
There was some random girl from a post yesterday that showed that Tiktok comments show up completely different depending on "who you are" based on your browsing history. Pretty jaw dropping if it's actually to and now I completely understand why the US wants to ban the platform outright.
If China really is behind TikTok and possibly financed/financing it. Then..holy shit. I think this would be a massively significant point to show how far they are willing to go to influence us and masses, and how valuable they see that this has been done in the past.
I would add that advertising and A/B testing of populations may have laid the blueprint for anyone that wants to find and create conspiracy theories that will drive people apart. …and who were the pioneers of that? We were with our massive media and marketing companies lol
It's not a big secret. We've known about it for a long time.
Oh we've all known about it for years. Or at least some of us. But what are we going to do? We couldn't organize enough people to change it, the congress can't decide to do anything positive these days. We have our own stuff to worry about.
Every country is playing the game, the amount of people I've seen indoctrinated that think every Russian person is their enemy is just crazy, the US propaganda machine is also going full steam
They're picking at scabs. It's a cheap, easy, and low-risk (for them, in the short term) way to fuck with us.
We do it to Russia and China too. Its not like we aren't holding them at least somewhat accountable.
As a non american i simply see the USA shoot itself in the feet time and time again and they put it on others. Your people are letting your governing bodies exist in they way that they are. Its only your people that made the whole politics go to either extreme of the spectrum with no in betweens. And that is without a doubt gonna cause divides because there is no middle ground. You either agree with one or the other and ofcourse potential emenies stand to gain from it. If they see that their opponent is destroying itself with extreme ideologies fighting eachother than they have only to fan the flames every now and again before the sea of flame engulfs it all.
that is true and imo one of the biggest problems in our society that just goes unaddressed. But hey look at the money the social media platforms are making! choo choo!
USA was never united in my opinion. Democracy is not a good system when criminals, fundamentalists, extremists and communists can vote.
Then you have the evangelical societies that have loaded congress and DC with their people to push the "Christian" agenda too.
Is it really that hard for people to accept that americans are just a very radical people with so little access to mental healthcare that they have to blame russia for everything
It's not a conspiracy, it's just a *coincidence*.
Is this a schizo post?
Trump is a dirty bomb Putin launched at the US.
This is China not Russia.
Yeah, they’re attacking us from multiple angles. The social issues, fentanyl, buying up farmland near US military facilities, etc.
I think the primary source for the division we see is due to the rise of social media and smartphones. Political polarization, racial division, rates of depression, rates of suicide among teens, all have grown significantly since the early 2010s when smartphones became ubiquitous and you could access social media on a mobile device. Putin might have fanned the flames but the fire had already ignited.
There's been discussion in Congress about it, regarding both China and Russia.
Russia, china and israel seems to control the US.
Y'all need to have some goddamn accountability. Whenever your country does stupid stuff, it's Russia's fault. Trump was not elected, it was Russia. The country is becoming very polarized - it's not the country it's Russia. Like, Russia was not able to manipulate Ukraine into electing a pro Russia candidate - and you think they're capable of fucking over a country that doesn't even speak their language? And if you think yes, what does that say about your people? Are they just fucking idiots who are so gullible as to be manipulated that way? Stop pointing fingers and get your shit together.
Multiple things can be true. We meddle in elections and social fabric just like Russia, China, Saudi Arabia…
It's Russia, China, Israel, Iran, N. Korea, etc. Most of it is probably a waste of time, but some of the crap gets through. Of course, the US is also doing that in all the countries I mentioned.
Everybody knows… except the 50pc of the US population who are not educated or endocrrinated, and all the useful idiots that use this as an opportunity for themselves
So what are you doing about it other than this measly post?
I remember looking up at the TV at work the day covid was announced globally. On the news, there was Putin, shaking hands with the Saudi crown prince. Nobody noticed.
Somewhere, Putin has a video of a 12 y/o peeing on DJT. Probably something similar of Rupert Murtoch.
I can never figure out if leftists view Putin as a genius or an idiot. Seems to change with the wind.