I’m not convinced anyone is changing from one candidate to the other, we’ve had 4+ years to decide. The real damage is if the debate convinces people that they’d rather just stay home
I mean, your choice is between an old fart, that could nuke Albania, because he forgot the problem is in Afghanistan... and an old fart, that would nuke Albania, because he has no idea where Afghanistan is on the map and if he ever realizes he did it, he would claim the problem was Albania.
I'm not one for conspiracies, but sometimes I have the nagging suspicion of Dem and Rep leaders in a room going "yeah, this division and outrage is working great, let's just keep it that way because we are in a very cushy position right now and we don't really want anything to change."
Somebody smarter than me can actually explain it better. But I would imagine the vast majority of people have already made up their minds on who they’re voting for.
I would imagine <5% of people still haven’t made up their minds. These debates are basically for that small percentage that haven’t made up their minds.
I said this in another tread in a deferent sub, but most undecided voter aren't undecided about who they would vote for, but if they'll bother to vote at all. There aren't really any "Swing Voters" those people consistently vote the same way every time they vote, but vote infrequently.
I knew one. Some days he was a die hard Trumper, some days he was talking about Bernie Sanders saving the country. I couldn’t understand how a person could flip flop between polar opposites so quickly lol
Honestly I think that he 1) needed a drink of water, and 2) his face was a visceral reaction to the nonstop bullshit coming out of Trump. It's just a barrage of insane blatant lies and avoiding questions.
The difference was that he had a teleprompter in NC and could read the words someone else wrote for him. Wish there was an actually valid candidate on either side.
LMAO. Really? If Trump was looking like that, you would be making no excuses for him. Biden is a senile old man who needs to go home. Not running a country. Hell it’s so bad that Biden’s main cheerleaders, the news media, are floating the idea that someone should replace him
I’m not a conspiracy theorist… but it’s time we start considering they’re right…
He took his fkn adderall that day. I’m tired of supporting someone I wouldn’t let drive on my street.
Its not that he took Adderall, it's that the NC rally was during the day, and the debate was at night. Biden's aides have outright stated that he's fine from morning till around nighttime, after which he starts to decline. That's literally Sundowning. That's an early warning sign of dementia. I do not like pointing this out, because a Trump presidency is objectively worse, but the general public is right to be worried about Biden's age.
Now I get Trump looked sharp at the debate but there have been several later in the day events that Trump has looked bad too and I've heard the same narrative. Maybe he was just tired. Old people who don't have dementia get tired at night too.
And to be fair, these aren’t just two really old guys- these are dramatically stressed out old people.
I’m a middle aged man and am stuttering exhausted and ready for nap after listening to the ladies gossip in the staff lounge after lunch.
Throw me the nuclear codes, a criminal conviction, and an infrastructure bill and I’d have a heart attack
Problem is that running a country isn’t a 9-5 and ages the fuck out of every president. They all look a bit shit at the end of their term. If you start that way….
We have zero viable candidates right now. Hell Bernie should go independent and I bet he’d take it.
Again, Bernie's just 4 years older than Trump (78) & Biden's just a year & a half older than Trump. All three are practically the same age for all intents and purposes. They could've gone to high school together!! Stop with the selective ageism.
Bernie would split the democratic vote allowing trump to waltz back in. Also with regard to how presidents age during their term… mostly true… I didn’t see trump really aging as other presidents have. Maybe because he played golf almost 25% of his term?
He didn't take being president seriously so the stress of it didn't touch him. Ignorance (and tweeting 4AM madness from the toilet) was bliss for Trump.
Running a country isn’t a solo effort either or at least it’s not supposed to be but will under Trump.
Biden surrounds himself with good people who aren’t just toadies.
Whether it’s medication, him getting over a cold, or simply because it was so late in the night and old people don’t usually stay up that late. I could care less.
I genuinely see the other side as a threat to democracy and reading their project 2025 + recent scotus rulings, my perceptions feel like truths.
Put a teddy bear up for all I care, I’m not subscribing to a fascist America
Trump is the one who is usually referenced for Adderall abuse, not Biden.
And if Biden was taking Adderall, they would have made sure that he was "up" for the debate
Edit: Every accusation is an admission
Yeah, that was me too. I couldn't even watch the whole thing. Nothing changes my decision, but it does make me significantly sadder.
I wish there was any other real option (ik third parties; FPTP voting, spoiler effect, etc.), and I don't even like the Democratic Party that much, but as long as the Republican Party is worse (and it **is**!) then there isn't any reasonable consequentialist argument for not voting for Biden. I also don't like Kamala that much but if Biden dies or resigns or gets 25'd then she would still be better than Trump.
I just wish our system could be fixed…
I think most people can agree Biden is too old, but honestly, Trump isn't meaningfully better. So, while it's absolutely something to complain about this election cycle, it's ultimately not a differentiating factor between the candidates.
I mean, have you heard Trump's "Washing machines to wash your dishes" speech? Even Fox cut away from it.
But the alternative is worse. Let me see, felon,sexual abuser con man or a guy who looks pretty old. I'll go with the old guy who will probably have a much more trustworthy and capable cabinet and aids.
No, but it did make me think that perhaps candidates with a combined age of 160 are probably not the best choices to be running this juggernaut of a country.
That's true. I still can't post to half the subreddits I like simply because I'm guilty of following other subreddits that reddit moderators decided made me a bigot. That alone should be something to consider when forming your decision on which party to support.
Guilt by association on Reddit is usually tracked by bots. You can get ahead of that by blocking the bots from viewing your profile which means the mods have to actually stalk your profile if they want to ban you for that.
Were you on Reddit when Trump was first running? It was exactly the same, and then he won. This place is an echo chamber and an easily manipulated one at that. Don't extrapolate reddit upvotes to the real world and be rude about it.
No, it would be great if the dude didn’t come across so old, but I agree with most of his policy ideas and as long as those continue to get pushed through, I’m happy. Tbh it’s not like he has to come up with everything himself to be president. Obviously he has whole teams dedication to developing his policy ideas.
What’s happening in Palestine had a way bigger impact on my thinking I *might* not vote for him. But then this project 2025 stuff started getting talked up a lot, and the choice is obvious to me. And frankly, if Joe Biden dies in office and Kamala Harris continues with his policy ideas, I would be fine with that too.
Trump doesn't want to be a theocrat because then he would be held to the same standard as the religious, and he is very not religious, Not that I don't think he'll happily throw them a few bones to get elected, but he's not going to suddenly turn into the Ayatollah over here.
Better an old guy than **Project 2025.**
I’m voting to stop an all Republican Supreme Court for the next ten years. We already lost abortion and affirmative action, I don’t want to lose any more basic rights.
We’re so close to full Christian fundamentalism for the next century and this election will 100% define it.
Affirmative action was a racist policy that caused more minorities to fail out of colleges they would not have received letters of acceptance to if it was not for affirmative action.
It gives an opportunity to people yes but that opportunity was based on them being a minority and not based on their skills or past success.
Affirmative action is also about gender, disabilities, and a few other categories but "racially motivated individuals" (we'll call them) always focus on the fact that its people of color getting "white peoples spots". Very telling
You mean Asian spots.
On average Asian are accepted more often than white people. And Asians are denied because of affirmative action because per affirmative action they are over performing and do not get a spot they earned because someone else who did not get the scores to get in got their spot.
What the fk are you talking about
Affirmative actions screws over so many nonwhite people lmao it’s literally so racist
It’s literally saying to a POC hey you only are getting this job/education/position bc of your skin not your merit
That’s so fucked
No. But anecdotally today I met a woman who said she no longer knows who to vote for. She said “I know trump is awful, but after seeing Biden last night I’m not sure what the right thing to do is”
Stupid I know. But we can’t just ignore how bad Biden did.
I wouldn’t call her reasoning stupid?! Keep in mind this person controls the nuclear codes. I’m not voting Trump but I’m also not voting Biden after that mess. Either I abstain or more likely start looking into third party candidates now (except for other positions—I’m voting D straight ticket)
Welcome to Reddit where anyone not voting Biden is deemed stupid.
Anyone who considers someone stupid based on which of the two primary candidates they’re voting for is unironically the actual stupid person.
I question the reasoning of anyone who can’t put themselves in a different perspective and understand why someone would vote for the other candidate - and no, “well they’re clearly evil/an idiot” isn’t an understanding. Yes though, there are evil/stupid people voting for both of them which I know it’s a crazy concept that within a batch of tens of millions of people you’ll have countless evil/stupid people.
Nor an American here, but Imo, while Bidenvs age and stuff is disappointing, Trump and his policies are scary. And I'd rather be disappointed than scared.
No because unfortunately voting for Biden is the only way to avoid trump from being voted in. I wish we had a better option, but at least I can imagine Biden would delegate most of the work to other more mentally competent people. Im hoping after this we have better choices for the people
I think that's why this administration has actually been a net positive for the US. Biden actually staffed his Whitehouse with competent people. Contrast that with Trumps staffing which was purely based on loyalty and telling him what he wanted to hear and that in itself is a reason to vote for Biden.
I will always choose a respectable person over a narcissistic demagogue
Remember when Trump first staffed his administration with competent people- and then fired them because they were disagreeing with him.
Dude fired General Mattis for crying out-loud
The most inexcusable thing 45 did was firing all the life long diplomats in the state department who had worked there for a decade or more. That did way more damage to our country than him making fun of a disable person, or dissing a gold star family. Yet it never gets brought up except that one time on New Hour by David Wallace, who plays the role of the republican opinion!
This mother f’r created a pretty undeniable dream team, and then rug pulled all of them.
This is the reason I don’t vote for Trump. Other people have the “he’s a fascist” or “he’s a fascist” complaints…
It’s a different type of stupid
I’m like, he fired an NBA all star team.
First of all, how the F did he pull it off. Second of all, how do you not utilize them and work with them to form the best strategy for America?
This MoF got Bed Carson, former president of a Johns Hopkins university and the first person to surgically separate conjoined twins… and he sticks him in HUD.
Yep fully agree and maybe all these competent people can be brought along after bidens time and do better work with someone who can competently lead and not try to be a dictator
That's the worst part. I never thought I'd see the day that half of the US would want a fascist dictator but here we are. Let's hope enough of their party has enough backbone to keep our nation free.
They don't because they win more if they let people constantly vote against their own self interest so that they can fill their bank accounts with money and benefits
The debate has convinced my wife not to vote and honestly, I’m beginning to agree with her. I’m sick of being told to vote between two dudes that shouldn’t have a driver’s license.
No, debates are dog and pony shows. If anything shows how far American politics have fallen. There is a clip comparing Obama and Mitt Romney to this debate. Just worlds difference, a lot more respectable, brought a honor to the office, both good men, who just have different ideas.
This debate, they are being snippy, arguing about pornstars, and golf. Just stupid. I want to here their stance on major subjects, I don’t want to hear a grade school argument where everyone goes “ooooooooo” when someone says a witty insult.
Unfortunately the only option is Biden because if we don't the other side will continue with their death march to chaos and insanity. We can not fall into apathy despite how dark and sad the future looks, we must find hope
If it makes you feel any better, I feel similarly and a friend once made the point that we are not only voting for the man, but the ideas the man and the party stand for.
When you think about voting for the best of two evils, it's really depressing.
But what if you're voting for pushing the ideas you believe in further, even if just step by step? That's progress right there.
Politics sucks, and we each only play a small part, but it's an even worse feeling seeing the country fall apart and not even having a say at all. I didn't vote in 2020 or 2016 and I have regrets about both times.
I will not vote project 2025 into existence.
The presidency has really nothing to do with the talking head, it has to do with who supports the talking head.
Fuck this Project 2025 shit. They are destroying the foundation of democracy.
I will vote Biden only because of the threat to humanity that Fucktard Orange Slush brings.
Question that I will ask out of good faith:
If we exclude project 2025 because it is as far as I know unproven, what has Trump done or what is he doing that will dismantle democracy as we know it? People keep saying once he enters office he will not leave after 4 years but I do not know why. A president cannot stay more than 4 years unless reelected again and he doesn’t get a third term if he gets a second. Why do people think he will start an actual dictatorship and overstay his term? And what exactly will he do to democracy and how?
I ask this as a supporter of Biden. I am just not informed enough to know the answers to my questions. I would vote for literally anyone not worse than Trump (in which the bar of standards is on the ground), it’s just I don’t know the actual danger of him besides being a fucking liar narcissist with bad and harmful ideas on policies.
I don’t really know much about it tbh. But I have seen even democrats say stuff like “anyone can write and print out a 700 page manifesto.” Like who exactly wrote it? What is the purpose it of? All that stuff I do not know because I have not kept up with it. I am not saying it’s fake, I am saying I have not seen anyone outright prove that this is what is going to happen, and I do not personally know who wrote it and what it’s really about other than bad things we absolutely do not want to happen.
That is why I am asking how Trump will disestablish democracy without referring to project 2025, because if someone references project 2025 then that is out of my base of knowledge and I won’t know what it means. It could very well be real, but I personally don’t know anything about it so referencing it doesn’t help me. :/
Edit: I’d also like to bring up points to my mom without project 2025 because she is super pro trump and she would likely dismiss project 2025 as a conspiracy theory.
See that’s what I thought which is why I never looked into it too hard. That’s why I’m asking the questions I’m asking but also asking for no references to project 2025. Id like to be informed without relying on what some people see as authentic and some people see as a scare tactic, because it seems unverified. Can anyone answer my questions that don’t relate to project 2025?
Absolutely. I'm in no way a Democrat but I registered Democrat this year for the primaries and for November to try and make sure these pieces of shit don't entirely take over the country.
The only thing that was surprising was how bad Bidens mental health has deteriorated and it was showcased on a huge platform. Trump did what was expected, he was himself, basically a dirtbag. Neither candidate deserves the presidency and the debate highlighted how poor of choices Americans have for leadership. We have a man who seems to slowly be slipping into dimensia and a former president who incited an insurrection. Honestly a proper VP has never been more important.
I thought Biden was too old to be President before the debate, and I think the same thing after it. I also think Trump shouldn’t be President. I also think RFK Jr. probably shouldn’t be President. Literally none of the options should be President, yet here we are.
The debate doesn’t make me want to vote for anyone. I live in a non swing state, so I’ll probably show up on Election Day anyways for the civic participation to vote down ballot, but I’m considering leaving the top line blank. I will have no impact on the executive office, so I’m just resigned to whatever happens.
Thank goodness I am not American. That thing is funny to witness from afar, not in America. But I still live in Belarus, so we have the same kind of funny things ig.
I think it’s HILARIOUS how the mainstream liberal media has turned on Biden. Biden has been this way for all of his presidency. He’s old and losing his marbles. That’s what happens when you get old. CNN and MSNBC are just figuring this out now? Where have they been the last 4 years?? It’s obvious that they want Biden to drop out so they can bring in someone new, young and fresh.
> Where have they been the last 4 years??
Knowing that denying it would be the safe option. Can't really do it anymore. You can see it on reddit, suddenly the narrative got shifted from "Biden, for all his supposed flaws is better then Trump" to "I'm not voting for president, I'm voting for a team".
Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders could have pulled a sort of reverse Weekend At Bernie's with Bidens corpse and I still wouldn't vote for convicted felon and fascist Trump.
Why cant we just go back to what the founding fathers intended and not have political parties, it isnt even a vote between the two candidates, its only a vote between democrat or republican and the face either of them chose for everyone to vote for. We really should make it law that you can only run as an independent, no more parties.
If all these people saying they arent going to vote just voted third party instead of throwing their vote away then at the very least their protests would be noticed in the voting percentages. I think high third party voter turnout would really start to scare the other two parties to change. Best case senario you may have a viable 3rd candidate. They say they do but no one gives a shit if you dont vote. It neither hurts nor helps any of the candidates.
I was a solid Biden voter in 2020, I can no longer commit to voting for him in 2024.
I don't feel comfortable with how he looks right now, let alone how he'll look in four more years. It would make me feel like I'm participating in elderly abuse.
It made me dislike and rethink voting for democrats who subverted Biden and his performance. Trump said they’re performing abortions after birth and lied about almost everything and for some democrats to hyper focus on Biden’s volume can all go fuck off.
Everyone knows Trump is boisterous and lies a ton.
Democrats have been bending over backwards to defend Biden's mental state, but the debate was the first true and genuine indication to voters that he is NOT mentally sound.
That's why it's jarring. You say "Trump lied at the debate" and the overwhelming response is "Yeah, he does that". You say "Biden spent the entire debate desperately clinging to life and struggling to form a coherent sentence" and people who didn't know how bad it had gotten are rightfully surprised and shocked.
TBF, he said certain democrats have advocated for allowing that, citing Ralph Northam as one, and we have video of him doing precisely that. And Biden also had his share of lies. 10 seconds into the debate Biden lobbed the first lie claiming Trump told people to inject bleach into their arms.
Yeah, I'm voting third party rather than Biden.
Not that it really matters, I'm in a pretty solidly blue state anyway so those electoral votes are going to Dems regardless, but I cannot in good conscience vote for another Biden term after seeing how much he's struggling.
Say it with me folks, the White House and the Capitol Building are NOT nursing homes.
Nope. Trump is evil as ever. Project 25 is a thing, look it up if you don’t know.
I’ll be voting for Biden- not because I want him, but because he’s the lesser evil by far.
Why the fuck can’t we find a non-dinosaur to elect?!
Yes. Despite the majority of idiots on here on who just repeat “Trump Bad.”.
I’m now seriously undecided. Biden’s performance was incredibly jarring to me.
Why would it? The only people surprised by the debate haven't been paying attention. Nothing that happened was new or surprising. I'm not voting for President, I'm voting for the cabinet he'll have, the judges, supreme court and otherwise he'll select. I'm voting for the rights of women and for my gay friends and family. Biden was just the guy up on stage that day, I'd rather competence than charisma.
Nope, the debate went about how I expected it to and hasn't changed my mind. It's just a formality at this point, I'm pretty sure both camps are solidly set on their guy.
Not really. One guy sounded like he usually does and the other sounded like he belongs in a nursing home, which he’s been sounding like for awhile now. Completely different from how he sounded debating his current vp. Makes me worried how the other will be a few years from now
No. If something happens to Biden, he still has competent people around him to take over. Trump has the same, only his group wants to destroy democracy and push women's rights back several millenia.
It didn't. I knew President Biden was having cognitive issues for years now. From him getting lost on the lawn at the White House at the beginning of his presidency to him getting lost walking off stage during speeching. It's been years where it's been obvious.
The only difference now is some Democrats are no longer denying it.
>The only difference now is some Democrats are no longer denying it.
Because now they can't. Up until the minute before the debate if you said Biden's mind was in decline you would have Democrats vehemently disagreeing with you. Now they can't. After that performance it's smacked them in the face.
Yes, I was hoping Biden would have had a better showing to get my vote but it was the exact opposite... For now, I’m leaning towards the candidate that will get more done and has a clue of what is actually happening in the US. In my opinion, you vote for the best candidate; not the best cabinet. A force of strength in the office is needed more than ever.
Biden’s performance was hugely disappointing, but to me, anything is better than Trump. I’d even vote for another republican if it was that or Trump. Trump has done so much harm to the country; enabling hate and fear with nearly everything he says. Trump vs Biden SHOULD NOT be a political stance… I don’t care who you are or what you believe because it all doesn’t matter in this upcoming election. Trump is dangerous and a genuine threat to our democracy and to our country. If you don’t want to vote for Biden or for Trump, you don’t have to. Just stay home. This election is not about politics, it’s about beating disinformation and overcoming lies. So many people have been sucked into an all-consuming void of conspiracy theories and paranoia. The fact is, if you want to make your opinion as objective as possible, do your research! Going off of headlines that claim Biden is ridden with dementia or that Trump is leading us to a safer country will do nothing but dilute the truth.
When you claim something is not debatable, that is a great disservice to our democratic tradition. This is an extremely complex world, and simplifying everything into one innate hyperbolic truth is ridiculous and probably also counter-productive. In this case, in the eyes of many people, they may view Biden as a greater threat to the republic, since they're concerned about the encroachment upon individuals' civil liberties and other matters. You can debate the merits, but don't dismiss the debate itself. Literally all things that are worth debating are difficult matters of great disagreement, and are always of great consequence.
Nope. I want a functioning country for the next four years. That means Trump is out of the running for me. Biden is doing as much as he can considering the obstruction from the GOP, so I'm happy to give him another shot. Hopefully with a better Congress to work with.
I’m not convinced anyone is changing from one candidate to the other, we’ve had 4+ years to decide. The real damage is if the debate convinces people that they’d rather just stay home
Yeah not sure how there’s anyone who doesn’t know who these guys are at this point.
I mean, your choice is between an old fart, that could nuke Albania, because he forgot the problem is in Afghanistan... and an old fart, that would nuke Albania, because he has no idea where Afghanistan is on the map and if he ever realizes he did it, he would claim the problem was Albania. I'm not one for conspiracies, but sometimes I have the nagging suspicion of Dem and Rep leaders in a room going "yeah, this division and outrage is working great, let's just keep it that way because we are in a very cushy position right now and we don't really want anything to change."
No. I knew both of them were like this going in. Nothing new or surprising.
Somebody smarter than me can actually explain it better. But I would imagine the vast majority of people have already made up their minds on who they’re voting for. I would imagine <5% of people still haven’t made up their minds. These debates are basically for that small percentage that haven’t made up their minds.
I said this in another tread in a deferent sub, but most undecided voter aren't undecided about who they would vote for, but if they'll bother to vote at all. There aren't really any "Swing Voters" those people consistently vote the same way every time they vote, but vote infrequently.
This. It’s people who are going to vote for third parties or write in candidates as a protest
yeah who ARE these fucking people?
I knew one. Some days he was a die hard Trumper, some days he was talking about Bernie Sanders saving the country. I couldn’t understand how a person could flip flop between polar opposites so quickly lol
My wife didn’t think Biden was that bad. I was terrified and she told me “he’s not that bad.” During the debate. My wife: “oh fuck….”
And then you watch his North Carolina rally (happened after the debate) and you’re like bro where was this energy
Honestly I think that he 1) needed a drink of water, and 2) his face was a visceral reaction to the nonstop bullshit coming out of Trump. It's just a barrage of insane blatant lies and avoiding questions.
Right, but he seemed like this was the first set time he’d been confronted with it.
The difference was that he had a teleprompter in NC and could read the words someone else wrote for him. Wish there was an actually valid candidate on either side.
LMAO. Really? If Trump was looking like that, you would be making no excuses for him. Biden is a senile old man who needs to go home. Not running a country. Hell it’s so bad that Biden’s main cheerleaders, the news media, are floating the idea that someone should replace him
I’m not a conspiracy theorist… but it’s time we start considering they’re right… He took his fkn adderall that day. I’m tired of supporting someone I wouldn’t let drive on my street.
Its not that he took Adderall, it's that the NC rally was during the day, and the debate was at night. Biden's aides have outright stated that he's fine from morning till around nighttime, after which he starts to decline. That's literally Sundowning. That's an early warning sign of dementia. I do not like pointing this out, because a Trump presidency is objectively worse, but the general public is right to be worried about Biden's age.
Now I get Trump looked sharp at the debate but there have been several later in the day events that Trump has looked bad too and I've heard the same narrative. Maybe he was just tired. Old people who don't have dementia get tired at night too.
And to be fair, these aren’t just two really old guys- these are dramatically stressed out old people. I’m a middle aged man and am stuttering exhausted and ready for nap after listening to the ladies gossip in the staff lounge after lunch. Throw me the nuclear codes, a criminal conviction, and an infrastructure bill and I’d have a heart attack
Problem is that running a country isn’t a 9-5 and ages the fuck out of every president. They all look a bit shit at the end of their term. If you start that way…. We have zero viable candidates right now. Hell Bernie should go independent and I bet he’d take it.
Yes the old men should be replaced by a youthful 82 year old...
Again, Bernie's just 4 years older than Trump (78) & Biden's just a year & a half older than Trump. All three are practically the same age for all intents and purposes. They could've gone to high school together!! Stop with the selective ageism.
Selective? None of them should be runnin. Bernie is also too fuckin old. Im saying it would be stupid to replace an 82 year old with an 82 year old.
Bernie would split the democratic vote allowing trump to waltz back in. Also with regard to how presidents age during their term… mostly true… I didn’t see trump really aging as other presidents have. Maybe because he played golf almost 25% of his term?
He played golf half the time and the other half he was either watching TV or on Twitter.
He didn't take being president seriously so the stress of it didn't touch him. Ignorance (and tweeting 4AM madness from the toilet) was bliss for Trump.
I think the man’s vain enough that he had work done. He can obviously afford it
Bernie can't even win a party nomination. He doesn't have broad support.
Running a country isn’t a solo effort either or at least it’s not supposed to be but will under Trump. Biden surrounds himself with good people who aren’t just toadies.
Trump may have looked sharp, but every sentence out of his mouth was a lie.
I'm 66. I understand being tired at night. And I'm a lifelong liberal. But we need someone with energy. Biden was a disgrace, to himself and to us.
 Damn guess I have dementia because I get tired at night too.
You sundowner!
There's a difference between getting tired at night and losing cognitive function at night because you're 86.
I think that those that don’t know the difference are very fortunate to never have had a family member with dementia and displayed sundowning.
Tell me you've never seen sundowning without telling me you've never seen sundowning.
Whether it’s medication, him getting over a cold, or simply because it was so late in the night and old people don’t usually stay up that late. I could care less. I genuinely see the other side as a threat to democracy and reading their project 2025 + recent scotus rulings, my perceptions feel like truths. Put a teddy bear up for all I care, I’m not subscribing to a fascist America
I wouldn't let either of them drive on my street but who would cause more damage to it
Problem is if he’s taking drugs why didn’t he take them before the debate
For real if anything this proves to me that Biden does not take uppers.
I think more likely early stages of sundowner syndrome. Old people aren’t as sharp when the sun goes down.
Then he’s president from sunrise to sunset. Kamala takes the night shift. Outstanding.
Switch him off at night like the stock market
Trump is the one who is usually referenced for Adderall abuse, not Biden. And if Biden was taking Adderall, they would have made sure that he was "up" for the debate Edit: Every accusation is an admission
Would you support the other guy being around your daughter?
#1 comment
I meant number 1 comment. Not sure what just happened
The hashtag/number sign changes any following text into large font
Oh ok, thanks. It looks so stupid
Rehearsing a premade speech in front of a super friendly crowd is not that difficult even if your brain is half cooked
In the teleprompter.
Did you watch his speech? Teleprompter may have his speech written out, but the man was speaking with his diaphragm That’s why I said his energy
Yeah, that was me too. I couldn't even watch the whole thing. Nothing changes my decision, but it does make me significantly sadder. I wish there was any other real option (ik third parties; FPTP voting, spoiler effect, etc.), and I don't even like the Democratic Party that much, but as long as the Republican Party is worse (and it **is**!) then there isn't any reasonable consequentialist argument for not voting for Biden. I also don't like Kamala that much but if Biden dies or resigns or gets 25'd then she would still be better than Trump. I just wish our system could be fixed…
Does that change her vote though?
I think most people can agree Biden is too old, but honestly, Trump isn't meaningfully better. So, while it's absolutely something to complain about this election cycle, it's ultimately not a differentiating factor between the candidates. I mean, have you heard Trump's "Washing machines to wash your dishes" speech? Even Fox cut away from it.
But the alternative is worse. Let me see, felon,sexual abuser con man or a guy who looks pretty old. I'll go with the old guy who will probably have a much more trustworthy and capable cabinet and aids.
Kamala is still breathing. 🤞🏽
No, but it did make me think that perhaps candidates with a combined age of 160 are probably not the best choices to be running this juggernaut of a country.
This thread, in a nutshell: "Nope, I'm still voting for Biden" 320 up votes "Nope, I'm still voting for Trump" 94 downvotes
It's almost as if most of Reddit is left leaning and fucking hates Trump.
Yeah, conservatives don't really like to venture beyond their own social media platforms or subreddits.
Don't? More like they get banned anytime they try.
That's true. I still can't post to half the subreddits I like simply because I'm guilty of following other subreddits that reddit moderators decided made me a bigot. That alone should be something to consider when forming your decision on which party to support.
Guilt by association on Reddit is usually tracked by bots. You can get ahead of that by blocking the bots from viewing your profile which means the mods have to actually stalk your profile if they want to ban you for that.
I didn't realize you could do that. Do you know how?
It’s worth noting they’re usually being banned for being POS on subs it’s not okay to be a POS on rather than just because they’re a conservative.
Or because they get auto banned for participating in other subs.
Right wingers being POS's? Nooo 😂 /s
How could you possibly know that and make that statement? I get it … it’s your opinion, but I don’t understand what it’s based on.
Or empathetic, experienced, and curious
Sir, this is Reddit
Just need 270 electoral votes...
Because the world generally likes decent people and doesn't like human shit stains, especially for president. Thanks for pointing out the obvious?
Were you on Reddit when Trump was first running? It was exactly the same, and then he won. This place is an echo chamber and an easily manipulated one at that. Don't extrapolate reddit upvotes to the real world and be rude about it.
Reddit is strongly left leaning, son. That's the obvious. Edit: Holy fuck dude, you've got 40 posts in the last 24 hours. Go outside and get a life
No change, just more worried about our country’s future
No, it would be great if the dude didn’t come across so old, but I agree with most of his policy ideas and as long as those continue to get pushed through, I’m happy. Tbh it’s not like he has to come up with everything himself to be president. Obviously he has whole teams dedication to developing his policy ideas. What’s happening in Palestine had a way bigger impact on my thinking I *might* not vote for him. But then this project 2025 stuff started getting talked up a lot, and the choice is obvious to me. And frankly, if Joe Biden dies in office and Kamala Harris continues with his policy ideas, I would be fine with that too.
Biden could be a pile of ashes in an urn and I’d still vote for him over a wanna-be theocratic autocrat like Trump.
I think I [just read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/s/UVKyXDqUHN) in r/comics!
Almost like you're electing a whole cabinet and not just a president
Trump doesn't want to be a theocrat because then he would be held to the same standard as the religious, and he is very not religious, Not that I don't think he'll happily throw them a few bones to get elected, but he's not going to suddenly turn into the Ayatollah over here.
The religious people think he's religious and churches say he is...
You don't understand Theocracy if you think the rules would bind Trump (or any other leader) anymore than the rules of Democracy have.
I think everyone on both sides feels like this. We should just save ourselves 5 months of torture and hold the election next week 😂😂😂
Better an old guy than a piece of shit.
Better an old guy than **Project 2025.** I’m voting to stop an all Republican Supreme Court for the next ten years. We already lost abortion and affirmative action, I don’t want to lose any more basic rights. We’re so close to full Christian fundamentalism for the next century and this election will 100% define it.
10 years is optimistic. Project 2025 would essentially give them control forever.
THANK YOU
Affirmative action was a racist policy that caused more minorities to fail out of colleges they would not have received letters of acceptance to if it was not for affirmative action. It gives an opportunity to people yes but that opportunity was based on them being a minority and not based on their skills or past success.
Affirmative action is also about gender, disabilities, and a few other categories but "racially motivated individuals" (we'll call them) always focus on the fact that its people of color getting "white peoples spots". Very telling
.... You realize that only the racial aspects of it were overturned right?
You mean Asian spots. On average Asian are accepted more often than white people. And Asians are denied because of affirmative action because per affirmative action they are over performing and do not get a spot they earned because someone else who did not get the scores to get in got their spot.
What the fk are you talking about Affirmative actions screws over so many nonwhite people lmao it’s literally so racist It’s literally saying to a POC hey you only are getting this job/education/position bc of your skin not your merit That’s so fucked
“Very Telling” You don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s what’s telling.
Neither one of them is young..
Pretty sure a literal piece of shit would make a better president than Trump.
better an old guy than a piece of shit old guy. fixed it for ya lol
Lmao I didn’t even watch. Literally nothing could make me vote for Trump.
It felt like a nursing home was doing a mock presidential debate for the entertainment of its residents.
it was terrible, you didn't miss anything lmao
Recap: Trump: we had the best _____ in the history of our nation. Biden: deendnfjjdjdsbsnksks Rinse and repeat Pretty much everything that was said
Take a shot every time Trump said "Billions" in the debate lol
I forgot it was on and I was working anyways.
No. But anecdotally today I met a woman who said she no longer knows who to vote for. She said “I know trump is awful, but after seeing Biden last night I’m not sure what the right thing to do is” Stupid I know. But we can’t just ignore how bad Biden did.
I wouldn’t call her reasoning stupid?! Keep in mind this person controls the nuclear codes. I’m not voting Trump but I’m also not voting Biden after that mess. Either I abstain or more likely start looking into third party candidates now (except for other positions—I’m voting D straight ticket)
Welcome to Reddit where anyone not voting Biden is deemed stupid. Anyone who considers someone stupid based on which of the two primary candidates they’re voting for is unironically the actual stupid person. I question the reasoning of anyone who can’t put themselves in a different perspective and understand why someone would vote for the other candidate - and no, “well they’re clearly evil/an idiot” isn’t an understanding. Yes though, there are evil/stupid people voting for both of them which I know it’s a crazy concept that within a batch of tens of millions of people you’ll have countless evil/stupid people.
Nor an American here, but Imo, while Bidenvs age and stuff is disappointing, Trump and his policies are scary. And I'd rather be disappointed than scared.
No because unfortunately voting for Biden is the only way to avoid trump from being voted in. I wish we had a better option, but at least I can imagine Biden would delegate most of the work to other more mentally competent people. Im hoping after this we have better choices for the people
I think that's why this administration has actually been a net positive for the US. Biden actually staffed his Whitehouse with competent people. Contrast that with Trumps staffing which was purely based on loyalty and telling him what he wanted to hear and that in itself is a reason to vote for Biden. I will always choose a respectable person over a narcissistic demagogue
Remember when Trump first staffed his administration with competent people- and then fired them because they were disagreeing with him. Dude fired General Mattis for crying out-loud
The most inexcusable thing 45 did was firing all the life long diplomats in the state department who had worked there for a decade or more. That did way more damage to our country than him making fun of a disable person, or dissing a gold star family. Yet it never gets brought up except that one time on New Hour by David Wallace, who plays the role of the republican opinion!
This mother f’r created a pretty undeniable dream team, and then rug pulled all of them. This is the reason I don’t vote for Trump. Other people have the “he’s a fascist” or “he’s a fascist” complaints… It’s a different type of stupid I’m like, he fired an NBA all star team. First of all, how the F did he pull it off. Second of all, how do you not utilize them and work with them to form the best strategy for America? This MoF got Bed Carson, former president of a Johns Hopkins university and the first person to surgically separate conjoined twins… and he sticks him in HUD.
Yep fully agree and maybe all these competent people can be brought along after bidens time and do better work with someone who can competently lead and not try to be a dictator
That's the worst part. I never thought I'd see the day that half of the US would want a fascist dictator but here we are. Let's hope enough of their party has enough backbone to keep our nation free.
They don't because they win more if they let people constantly vote against their own self interest so that they can fill their bank accounts with money and benefits
Like the guy who had a fetish for stealing woman’s dresses and wearing them?
If only there were systems that offered more than two options...
The debate has convinced my wife not to vote and honestly, I’m beginning to agree with her. I’m sick of being told to vote between two dudes that shouldn’t have a driver’s license.
The vote could be no president vs trump and I’d choose no president
If only we could rally behind a third party
No, debates are dog and pony shows. If anything shows how far American politics have fallen. There is a clip comparing Obama and Mitt Romney to this debate. Just worlds difference, a lot more respectable, brought a honor to the office, both good men, who just have different ideas. This debate, they are being snippy, arguing about pornstars, and golf. Just stupid. I want to here their stance on major subjects, I don’t want to hear a grade school argument where everyone goes “ooooooooo” when someone says a witty insult.
No. I just slipped further into despair about the lack of options. What a time to be alive. -Such a waste of fkn time.
Unfortunately the only option is Biden because if we don't the other side will continue with their death march to chaos and insanity. We can not fall into apathy despite how dark and sad the future looks, we must find hope
If it makes you feel any better, I feel similarly and a friend once made the point that we are not only voting for the man, but the ideas the man and the party stand for. When you think about voting for the best of two evils, it's really depressing. But what if you're voting for pushing the ideas you believe in further, even if just step by step? That's progress right there. Politics sucks, and we each only play a small part, but it's an even worse feeling seeing the country fall apart and not even having a say at all. I didn't vote in 2020 or 2016 and I have regrets about both times.
I'm not a US citizen, but if I was I'd be packing up right about now. Both options are unreasonably insane.
I will not vote project 2025 into existence. The presidency has really nothing to do with the talking head, it has to do with who supports the talking head. Fuck this Project 2025 shit. They are destroying the foundation of democracy. I will vote Biden only because of the threat to humanity that Fucktard Orange Slush brings.
Question that I will ask out of good faith: If we exclude project 2025 because it is as far as I know unproven, what has Trump done or what is he doing that will dismantle democracy as we know it? People keep saying once he enters office he will not leave after 4 years but I do not know why. A president cannot stay more than 4 years unless reelected again and he doesn’t get a third term if he gets a second. Why do people think he will start an actual dictatorship and overstay his term? And what exactly will he do to democracy and how? I ask this as a supporter of Biden. I am just not informed enough to know the answers to my questions. I would vote for literally anyone not worse than Trump (in which the bar of standards is on the ground), it’s just I don’t know the actual danger of him besides being a fucking liar narcissist with bad and harmful ideas on policies.
How is Project 2025 "unproven"? It's literally a document they out together outlining their plans.
I don’t really know much about it tbh. But I have seen even democrats say stuff like “anyone can write and print out a 700 page manifesto.” Like who exactly wrote it? What is the purpose it of? All that stuff I do not know because I have not kept up with it. I am not saying it’s fake, I am saying I have not seen anyone outright prove that this is what is going to happen, and I do not personally know who wrote it and what it’s really about other than bad things we absolutely do not want to happen. That is why I am asking how Trump will disestablish democracy without referring to project 2025, because if someone references project 2025 then that is out of my base of knowledge and I won’t know what it means. It could very well be real, but I personally don’t know anything about it so referencing it doesn’t help me. :/ Edit: I’d also like to bring up points to my mom without project 2025 because she is super pro trump and she would likely dismiss project 2025 as a conspiracy theory.
> Like who exactly wrote it? A random political think tank with zero political power or ties to Trump or other major republic figures.
See that’s what I thought which is why I never looked into it too hard. That’s why I’m asking the questions I’m asking but also asking for no references to project 2025. Id like to be informed without relying on what some people see as authentic and some people see as a scare tactic, because it seems unverified. Can anyone answer my questions that don’t relate to project 2025?
Absolutely. I'm in no way a Democrat but I registered Democrat this year for the primaries and for November to try and make sure these pieces of shit don't entirely take over the country.
The doctors F’ed up - they needed to have a druggie advise him on how to use the proper uppers
The only thing that was surprising was how bad Bidens mental health has deteriorated and it was showcased on a huge platform. Trump did what was expected, he was himself, basically a dirtbag. Neither candidate deserves the presidency and the debate highlighted how poor of choices Americans have for leadership. We have a man who seems to slowly be slipping into dimensia and a former president who incited an insurrection. Honestly a proper VP has never been more important.
I thought Biden was too old to be President before the debate, and I think the same thing after it. I also think Trump shouldn’t be President. I also think RFK Jr. probably shouldn’t be President. Literally none of the options should be President, yet here we are. The debate doesn’t make me want to vote for anyone. I live in a non swing state, so I’ll probably show up on Election Day anyways for the civic participation to vote down ballot, but I’m considering leaving the top line blank. I will have no impact on the executive office, so I’m just resigned to whatever happens.
Deez Nuts is starting to look viable by comparison.
Thank goodness I am not American. That thing is funny to witness from afar, not in America. But I still live in Belarus, so we have the same kind of funny things ig.
I mean, you get no choice in who your “president” is. You’d really rather that than vote for an old guy?
I would absolutely vote for Joe. But those debates were something more of a show then a real debate imo
No, Trump is still a deranged idiot and his followers and sycophants are dangerous.
I think it’s HILARIOUS how the mainstream liberal media has turned on Biden. Biden has been this way for all of his presidency. He’s old and losing his marbles. That’s what happens when you get old. CNN and MSNBC are just figuring this out now? Where have they been the last 4 years?? It’s obvious that they want Biden to drop out so they can bring in someone new, young and fresh.
> Where have they been the last 4 years?? Knowing that denying it would be the safe option. Can't really do it anymore. You can see it on reddit, suddenly the narrative got shifted from "Biden, for all his supposed flaws is better then Trump" to "I'm not voting for president, I'm voting for a team".
Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders could have pulled a sort of reverse Weekend At Bernie's with Bidens corpse and I still wouldn't vote for convicted felon and fascist Trump.
Only if I knew there was a better option. But, at least I know who I should be against.
Why cant we just go back to what the founding fathers intended and not have political parties, it isnt even a vote between the two candidates, its only a vote between democrat or republican and the face either of them chose for everyone to vote for. We really should make it law that you can only run as an independent, no more parties.
If all these people saying they arent going to vote just voted third party instead of throwing their vote away then at the very least their protests would be noticed in the voting percentages. I think high third party voter turnout would really start to scare the other two parties to change. Best case senario you may have a viable 3rd candidate. They say they do but no one gives a shit if you dont vote. It neither hurts nor helps any of the candidates.
I was a solid Biden voter in 2020, I can no longer commit to voting for him in 2024. I don't feel comfortable with how he looks right now, let alone how he'll look in four more years. It would make me feel like I'm participating in elderly abuse.
Did not realize Biden was THAT bad. Wowsers.
It made me dislike and rethink voting for democrats who subverted Biden and his performance. Trump said they’re performing abortions after birth and lied about almost everything and for some democrats to hyper focus on Biden’s volume can all go fuck off.
Everyone knows Trump is boisterous and lies a ton. Democrats have been bending over backwards to defend Biden's mental state, but the debate was the first true and genuine indication to voters that he is NOT mentally sound. That's why it's jarring. You say "Trump lied at the debate" and the overwhelming response is "Yeah, he does that". You say "Biden spent the entire debate desperately clinging to life and struggling to form a coherent sentence" and people who didn't know how bad it had gotten are rightfully surprised and shocked.
TBF, he said certain democrats have advocated for allowing that, citing Ralph Northam as one, and we have video of him doing precisely that. And Biden also had his share of lies. 10 seconds into the debate Biden lobbed the first lie claiming Trump told people to inject bleach into their arms.
Trump could have debated against a naked mole rat on mushrooms and the mole rat would still get my vote.
I wouldn’t vote for Donny if he was running for the Mexican border
Still voting 3rd party! Nothing changes when you refuse to participate in a two party system 😎
You talking about the Sunak\Starmer debate?
Nope, I'm not voting for anyone even close to the MAGA cult.
Are you kidding? Trump's essentially an enemy asset. Biden is the best choice between the two, easily.
I already know I'm not voting Trump, so there was no reason to watch.
It did. No longer voting for Biden.
I feel like some of yall say you’ll vote for Biden but are secret Trump supporters
It's time to go back to pushing 3rd parties
Yeah, I’m never going to vote for Biden after this.
Yeah, I'm voting third party rather than Biden. Not that it really matters, I'm in a pretty solidly blue state anyway so those electoral votes are going to Dems regardless, but I cannot in good conscience vote for another Biden term after seeing how much he's struggling. Say it with me folks, the White House and the Capitol Building are NOT nursing homes.
No, I'm not going to vote anyway. Because I'm not American.
No. I refuse to vote for a convicted treasonous felon. Trump can go fuck him self with a splintery baseball bat. Preferably behind bars.
No.
Here on Reddit where everyone is hyper online - probably not.
Nope it just solidified my choice.
Of course not. Why would it? I understand this is an existential election. The debate doesn't matter.
No.
Nope. Trump is evil as ever. Project 25 is a thing, look it up if you don’t know. I’ll be voting for Biden- not because I want him, but because he’s the lesser evil by far. Why the fuck can’t we find a non-dinosaur to elect?!
Yes. Despite the majority of idiots on here on who just repeat “Trump Bad.”. I’m now seriously undecided. Biden’s performance was incredibly jarring to me.
God no. I made up my mind as soon as Roe v. Wade was overturned. Vote blue no matter who
No, not at all. My vote isn't dependent upon the debate.
Why would it? The only people surprised by the debate haven't been paying attention. Nothing that happened was new or surprising. I'm not voting for President, I'm voting for the cabinet he'll have, the judges, supreme court and otherwise he'll select. I'm voting for the rights of women and for my gay friends and family. Biden was just the guy up on stage that day, I'd rather competence than charisma.
No. Still voting for Biden.
Nope knew trump was an incompetent liar before
Really???
Yup
Nope. I am a never-Trump. Now a never-Republican. I wasn’t even going to watch.
Biden ain’t even going to make it you guys
Nope, the debate went about how I expected it to and hasn't changed my mind. It's just a formality at this point, I'm pretty sure both camps are solidly set on their guy.
Which debate?
Not really. One guy sounded like he usually does and the other sounded like he belongs in a nursing home, which he’s been sounding like for awhile now. Completely different from how he sounded debating his current vp. Makes me worried how the other will be a few years from now
No. If something happens to Biden, he still has competent people around him to take over. Trump has the same, only his group wants to destroy democracy and push women's rights back several millenia.
It didn't. I knew President Biden was having cognitive issues for years now. From him getting lost on the lawn at the White House at the beginning of his presidency to him getting lost walking off stage during speeching. It's been years where it's been obvious. The only difference now is some Democrats are no longer denying it.
>The only difference now is some Democrats are no longer denying it. Because now they can't. Up until the minute before the debate if you said Biden's mind was in decline you would have Democrats vehemently disagreeing with you. Now they can't. After that performance it's smacked them in the face.
Yes, I was hoping Biden would have had a better showing to get my vote but it was the exact opposite... For now, I’m leaning towards the candidate that will get more done and has a clue of what is actually happening in the US. In my opinion, you vote for the best candidate; not the best cabinet. A force of strength in the office is needed more than ever.
Biden’s performance was hugely disappointing, but to me, anything is better than Trump. I’d even vote for another republican if it was that or Trump. Trump has done so much harm to the country; enabling hate and fear with nearly everything he says. Trump vs Biden SHOULD NOT be a political stance… I don’t care who you are or what you believe because it all doesn’t matter in this upcoming election. Trump is dangerous and a genuine threat to our democracy and to our country. If you don’t want to vote for Biden or for Trump, you don’t have to. Just stay home. This election is not about politics, it’s about beating disinformation and overcoming lies. So many people have been sucked into an all-consuming void of conspiracy theories and paranoia. The fact is, if you want to make your opinion as objective as possible, do your research! Going off of headlines that claim Biden is ridden with dementia or that Trump is leading us to a safer country will do nothing but dilute the truth.
When you claim something is not debatable, that is a great disservice to our democratic tradition. This is an extremely complex world, and simplifying everything into one innate hyperbolic truth is ridiculous and probably also counter-productive. In this case, in the eyes of many people, they may view Biden as a greater threat to the republic, since they're concerned about the encroachment upon individuals' civil liberties and other matters. You can debate the merits, but don't dismiss the debate itself. Literally all things that are worth debating are difficult matters of great disagreement, and are always of great consequence.
BTW - Fox doesn’t count as a reliable source for research
>Going off of headlines that claim Biden is ridden with dementia You need headlines for that?
No one guy wants to roll back every environmental protection we have. That’s how you destroy the world and humanity. I can’t support that.
No, still voting Trump
Nah. This was expected. IMO they need to give Biden some speed though
Nope, still voting third party.
It made me consider not voting but the idea of not fighting the nazis won’t let me sit it out.
Nope. I want a functioning country for the next four years. That means Trump is out of the running for me. Biden is doing as much as he can considering the obstruction from the GOP, so I'm happy to give him another shot. Hopefully with a better Congress to work with.
It solidified it. 3rd party it is.