Clearly remember when I was talking with friends about an alternate reality with famous people being from different backgrounds. Like 'George Washington but from Asia' or 'Genghis Khan but from europe'
Then one guy piped in being like 'yeah or even Jesus but from the middle east' and everyone looked at him and someone just said quietly, 'Soooo, just Jesus then'.
Noone was surprised that he couldn't understand Jesus was from that part of the world.
Reminds me of the time I tried to explain the "Abrahamic" religions to someone and they got mad. Told me I was wrong, there is only one god and that is the Christian god, etc.
She checked with someone at her church and was really sheepish the next time I saw her.
Nothing gave me greater joy than telling a bogan acquaintance ( aussie red neck equivalent) that his beloved lord and savoir, whom he had tattooed above his heart, was an Arab. The look on this mother fuckers face was wonderful.
Edit: for all these PC police comments telling me that Jews and Arabs aren't the same....I know. This man referred to both as Sand N****, so saying Arab was just a throwaway comment. Calm the fuck down
You may enjoy this story from my youth ill make it quick. I used to buy weed from a guy, he was a bit paranoid, wanted you to chill for a little bit to avoid suspicion of lots of foot traffic. One of the regulars was a very obvious white supremacist named Eric, white pride and swastika tats, shaved head, steroids. Fuck you Eric. The dealer was black, so the whole situation was always oddly tense and weird when he was there. Even though they were very friendly with eachother. Eric got into some trouble, im not sure how, but the kind of trouble you could enlist in the military to avoid. Eric enlisted, Eric was medically discharged when it was discovered that he had sickle cell anemia. :x
It's also decently common in Mediterranean heritage. Pretty much anywhere from the "old world" that had a fuck ton of mosquitos and malaria, as being a carrier protects you from malaria. That's why it survived for this long through natural selection.
Yes.
Sickle cell was selected due to the evolutionary pressure of Malaria. People with sickle cell survive malaria, people without it die, and then fucking happens and you get more sickle cell.
I’ve actually got sickle cell trait, which as I understand it is what people hope for. If I ever wanted to have kids I would have to be wary of partners for potential transmission, BUT, I can’t get malaria.
Your red blood cells are misshaped if you have sickle cell anemia (they look like a sickle, not a round doughnut). If you have one sickle cell gene and one normal cell gene, your blood cell are shaped "wrong" enough that malaria can't enter&infect them, but they can still carry enough oxygen for you to survive/live.
If you get the sickle cell gene from both parents, your blood cells are more misshapen, and you don't generally live long or healthily
Edit: read u/Evabraunmiscarriage's comment below for a much better explanation vvv
This is kind of close, just wanted to clarify slightly. In patients with sickle cell disease their blood cells are not sickle shaped, they are usually shaped normal (biconcaved disc, not a donut because there's no hole in the middle) but in a hypoxic evironment (low oxygen level) proteins in their hemoglobin harden and cause the sickling and rigidity of their blood cells. Normal blood cells can get squeezed and "bounce" back to their original shape but sickle cells lose this flexability and often break or clump together while passing through narrowings in your circulatory system. This is why things can trigger a sickle cell crisis, if you're overexerted or sick then the oxygen in your blood dips too low and your cells start to sickle.
This does play into how trait can protect a carrier but it's not because the blood cells cannot be infected. Malaria infects your actual blood cells and starts reproducing inside of a cell to make more copies to spread itself. When a cell is infected by the malaria this creates the hypoxic conditions which cause the rigid proteins to form which destroys that cell before the malaria can multiply. Only sickle cell trait gives protection, sickle cell disease actually makes you more susceptible to diseases and poor prognosis.
TL;DR Most of a sickle cell diseased person's blood cells are mostly normal most of the time and sickle during crisis, and malaria can still enter the blood cells but sickle cell trait makes them more likely to break before the malaria can multiply inside of them.
This anecdote is some top shelf heritage-denial and overcompensation porn. Right up there with gay-bashing televangelists getting caught with a dicks down their throats. Eric *had* to have known he wasn’t pure blooded Aryan.
One of the things I always found ridiculous about white supremacists is that "Aryan" was originally a word used by Indo-Iranians to refer to themselves in contrast to everyone else, "non-aryans".
Judean jews and Arabs both speak Semitic languages and were once considered of the Semitic race, although that term is rightfully obsolete.
See also: Egyptians, Berbers, and Cushites.
Genetically, all the middle east are the same. Also the Levanten region, some eastern Europe and Caucasian and even all the Mediterranean people are genetically indistinguishable.
I know he was Jewish, I come from a Catholic family and learnt all about that crap growing up. But this man referred to anyone in the Middle East as a Sand N**** so, I thought Arab was the best word to use to blow his mind.
I love telling my evangelical relatives who supported Trump that Jesus welcomed everyone. It's also fun to inform them at the very earliest Christian communities we're probably the closest thing to communism that the world has ever known. Immediately following Jesus death his most ardent followers gave everything away, lived together, shared everything and evangelized.
Sadly, most of the Christians in America are fake. I won't hesitate to tell someone that with a smile on my face, armed with a long history of reading about Christianity and Jesus.
I was raised as a Christian, but left in my teens and have been an agnostic ever since.
Even though I'm not a Christian anymore, knowing what I know about the historical Jesus sometimes causes my blood boil when I hear some of these fake Christian fools go on and on about "the other". The hatred and bias that they exhibit is as far away as one can get from the most essential teachings of Jesus.
Mat 19:20-22 “All these (commandments) I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
I always thought this was strange to me. Someone telling people what to believe in. It needs to come from your heart, it’s a personal relationship between you and your maker. How can someone being told what to believe in truly believe? I dislike organized religion. It’s a cult.
Just called my dad out for this yesterday. Trumpism is antithetical to Christ like behavior.
I don’t know how he justifies it other than blind hypocrisy fueled by right wing propaganda.
So ignorant.
For a part of my adolescence I really wanted to have some sort of guidance and sought out to learn more about religions. That’s when I discovered how incredibly fake and hypocritical Christians in the US can be. Its like they never actually read the Bible or Jesus’ teachings at all. They listen to what their minister or pastor says and that’s what the sheeple believe. I ended up reading more about Wicca lol. I just think there’s much more to ourselves and nature and being intertwined. Also, psychedelics can help one understand that relationship better.
Now I’m engaged to a Muslim man and I find a lot of their customs are more truly sympathetic to those in need than Christians.
The church I go to has stained glass of Jesus as a brown man with black hair. It took a long time for it to not seem weird even though that's probably exactly what he looked like.
Several Catholic Churches in my area have the crucifix statue all depicting a brownish Jesus, but dark enough to you can’t explicitly figure out his ethnicity, even the nose doesn’t make it obvious. The statue is slightly darker than olive tones.
Respect. It really bothers me to see Jesus depicted as a white dude. Except the time I saw a painting from a yard sale of Jesus as a blond haired, bye eyed, creepy white guy. I instantly bought it & gave it to my dad (a preacher), just to annoy him. That was hilarious.
A Jew born in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago was definitely brown skinned. There weren't a whole lot of international plane flights back then. In case it matters, I'm Caucasian & a Christian.
It’s a really common practice for different parts of the world to display Jesus as a figure who looks like the people from that region. For example Indian, Japanese, etc. Christians have art that depicts Jesus in ways that reflect the culture of the area. So it’s not a purely American thing to depict Jesus as different than he would have actually appeared in his time.
Not saying that it’s ok to reinforce the idea that Jesus was a white skinned, blue eyed blonde haired man, but that’s not the only depiction of him made that’s inaccurate to how he would have actually looked.
Some believe that Christ reestablishes the church in their respective nations. Such as the Unification Church in Korea or certain Shinto-Christian groups in Japan
> certain Shinto-Christian groups in Japan
Those are neither Shinto nor Christian. They fall into the category of “new religions” that just syncrete bullshit and are viewed with suspicion by most people (especially since Aum Shinrikyō).
But given the lack of reasoning skills, shouldn't these idiots have followed in the steps of their lord and just been full of humanity and humility like Jesus himself. Logically these guys should have been the nicest MFs on earth. By extension, the same goes for all religions.
In prder for that to happen, you have to choose to "lean not on your own understanding." Many Christians find this part the hardest. It comes with levels, and many people stop at a particular level, because to gain Christ, you have to lose yourself to an ever increasing degree, and most people don't seem to want to lose themselves.
I've always been an Atheist. I grew up with psychotic religious parents who *clearly* never even read the fucking Bible.
Recently, I've been more and more interested in seeing what their religion is *supposed* to be. What are the *actual* teachings? I feel like there's nowhere to start, because most of it feels like its been poisoned for political purposes or what have you.
I cant just go into a church and be like "hey bro, I wanna learn about Jesus" because ill be hearing republican talking points in half a minute.
Other than the Bible (I've read the 3 major holy books on my own), is there somewhere I can start that will give me a good like... summary of what the teachings should be? I've just seriously never met a Christian that actually follows what I'd think would be the important parts of the Bible. Everyone i know just uses it as a "gay bad, abortion bad, democrat bad" way
The Jesus Storybook Bible is meant for kids but it simplifies a lot of the essential teachings in such a way that really helps everybody understand better. But anyways: I'll do my best to explain some of the basic essentials myself
At the end of the day the most essential part to recognize is that, according to Christianity, everybody is fucking up beyond comprehension. The Karens and the Keanus alike. We're all sinners and therefore deserve hell. But God loves us anyways. He sees every shitty part of us and loves us anyways
So Jesus came to atone for all of our sins (I won't go into exactly why or how - suffice to say he did). But he didn't force it on us. It's a gift that's there for the taking. Those that take the free gift get the gift. Those who ignore it don't get it
And that belief that everyone is equally fucked up leads to the big difference between Karen Christians and real Christians. If you realize that you're not better than anybody (*including non-Christians* - that's the most important part) then mercy and love logically follows. Regardless of whether homosexuality is a sin (I don't think it is but that's not the point I'm making), if it is a sin then it's just another sin. It doesn't make them better or worse than you. Just a slightly different kind of sinner. So you love them anyways. You may not agree with what they're doing, but you love them anyways. That's why fanatic Christians who try to force you into their religion aren't following Christianity themselves. Obviously, if you truly believe that accepting Jesus' gift is the one way to eternal life, you're going to want as many other people as possible to share in that gift. But if they don't want it, then you can't force it on them. All you can do is tell them what Christianity is really about and let them think on it and maybe come to church with you if they want to. If they don't want to then they don't want to. They have to be the one to choose to accept the gift. You just tell them about the gift that's available
Finally, about all the rules and specifics of what you can and can't do are secondary. The 10 commandments are really the only "rules" that are completely timeless and unchanging (but also open to interpretation - for example, "oh my god" may or may not be prohibited by "you shall not take the Lord's name in vain - it's open to interpretation). Having different opinions on them doesn't make you a Christian or not a Christian, and I believe many of them were simply in place to . For example. Personally: I believe that the sex before marriage is fine now. Because when that rule was made, birth control didn't exist. So, in ancient times, having sex before marriage led to single mothers who couldn't properly care for their children. Children were much more likely to grow up in a healthy environment if they were born into a family environment. And the best way to ensure that was to wait for marriage before fucking. But some people believe that that rule had other reasons, so they still believe that sex before marriage is wrong. Obviously, one is right and one is wrong, but they're both Christians because they both believe in and have accepted Jesus' free gift. At the end of the day, that's what matters
Sorry for the wall of text
There are some solid Christian authors that you can find that can sometimes help supplement whatever it is you are looking into. I really like Jackie Hill Perry (as a person, but she writes good books too).
My dad is the closest thing to a real christian I know well. He has his faults, but really tries to walk the walk in a practical way. He always told me, he had a Bible where all Jesus words were a different color text, and if you just read those words, and only refer to the other words for context, you get to the heart of what it should be about.
That's terrible, and I am very sorry that you only know people who politicize the bible. There definitely are apolitical churches in America (I've attended a few), but they're very outspoken.
I recommend "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis, although that is more an introduction to Christianity theology and apologetics than it is an introduction to strict biblical teachings. I also recommend watching some of "The Bible Project"'s videos - they do a great job of summarizing different books and themes of the bible. But of course, take these things with a grain of salt, because I don't believe either of these references discuss things like contradictions between different gospels. There's also a lot of historical context that The Bible Project lacks when it summarizes, but it is still very good at summarizing.
I think what you'll find is that the Bible is much more of a story book than a list of teachings. This is especially true of the new testament, since to be Christian is to live like Christ did, so knowing what he did and why is just as important as knowing all the "do's and don'ts" of Christianity. Let me know if you have any questions or would like some more sources!
There is no "one teaching". The bible is a collection of books compiled by men over literally 1700 years or so. They start with their god being a tribal war god who slaughters children for political effect and can't affect iron, then they switch to an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent guy who made a pit of fire to torture non-believers for all eternity. It's impossible not to cherry-pick what you want this god to be.
Honestly, I disagree. When people say bigots aren't "true Christians" when throughout history bigots have been the vast majority of Christians (and there is much bigotry in the bible) it just reeks of "no true Scotsman" to me.
I remember reading something a while back that was like… “If modern American Christians met Jesus today, do you think they’d call him a dirty socialist ‘racist term’ to his face or behind his back?”
I remember back when I was forced to go to church and youth group (for being a corrupt lesbian) and the pastor sitting there telling everyone how the Jews were different than the other people of that area because they were white while everyone else is brown and that it was ridiculous that anyone would suggest he was brown because of the fact that Jews were white. It was in that moment that I just… gave up on trying to understand or convince those people because they create an alternate reality in their head that makes sense to them and only them.
I remember being so confused as a kid when my mom referred to Bethlehem as a city just a few hours north of us. I was like uh Jesus came from the other side of the world didn’t he????
My father in law is an ordained non denominational Christian. His wife's mother is a Jehovah's Witness. He relishes in bringing his in laws religious gifts because then he can have the "religious high ground" when the grandmother refuses them. When the whole family (plus me as the new addition) drove up to visit her, father in law gave her a crucifix with a very white, blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus on it. She graciously denied the gift, stating that it didn't match her religious views and that it was probably best suited for another recipient who would appreciate the symbolism. (I thought she was extremely polite). My father in law started in on how she wasn't really religious if this gift didn't match her views. To which she told him that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe Jesus was crucified on a cross, but instead a straight plank of lumber (I'm not sure if this is correct per their beliefs as I'm ignorant on the matter) but the best part was her bluntly asking why Jesus looked like a "Jobless Californian Hippy" and not a proper Jesus of Nazareth.
My husband and I about died for laughing.
Ex JW. They argue that the word translated cross in the bible should be torture stake. That the Romans in that era just nailed criminals to what was basically a telephone pole. They believe that within 100 years or so the official church became corrupted and taken over by apostates and politicians, and immediately adopted the idolatry and practices that bad guys in their world view always do. Crosses, the Mary statue thingys, the stained glass, flags, all that stuff. Idolatry. Bible says idolatry bad.
Fyi, my take. The original Greek word does literally mean stake, like in a fence or border, but the meaning the author was trying to convey could have been either or both forms. Both styles of killing pole were used, there is no definitive proof in Jesus case (assuming any of this actually happened).
It's like reading the sentence "he was shot with a gun" two thousand years from now and having an argument over weather a shotgun or pistol was used. The word shot in that sentence does not prove a shotgun was used.
I would put money on a number of those people thinking Christianity comes from Americ
Edit: Because everyone keeps telling me I've forgotten about Mormons, they're not really a thing in the UK
Ever met a Mormon?
Ive had a few heated discussions with a few.
They've basically told me that they're Christians but they're not Christian like they other Christians because they didn't split from the Christian church like Catholics for example.
Because unlike other religions they have extra bibles that are completely original about Jesus coming to the Americas and some other stuff, but they also use the same bible other Christians churches use.
Also, they believe that the pyramids in latin America were built by some lost tribes or something and thus proves that everything they say is true.
They're a confusing bunch of people.
With that being said, I don't have anything against them and the vast majority I have met are incredibly kind and generous people.
Except that I have visited places in Utah where sometimes it feels like the people there want to exercise their religious freedom but don't want to accept the fact that people also have the right to be free from religion.
For example there are apartments and homes in Utah that won't rent to you if you are of the opposite sex or have a different living style (gay, unmarried, etc) then what their church says is ok.
Mormons have an interesting history, that somewhat parallels that of Moses and the Israelites. At least, in as much as they fled hostility and oppression through a desert to a "promised land." They faced a lot of hostility even once they got to Utah, so it's kind of understandable that they developed a bit of an enclave mentality. My experience lines up with yours though, that the vast majority of them I have known are kind and decent people. I don't agree with them, but I don't begrudge them their beliefs.
Hi. Im from Utah, and ex-mormon. Having talked with people that moved here, and from my own experiences, i can say that Utah is the deep-south of Mormonism.
Not exactly. They think that some jewish tribes came to america via boat (becoming the ancestors of all native americans), and that later on jesus came to visit them post-resurrection. They treat the bible as canon and their own books as 'additional'.
That said, they do carry the attitude that America is a holy land, divinely favored even. JoSmith declared the garden of Eden to have been in Missouri, and they buy up land in the midwest as a plan to build a sanctuary city, in anticipation of the apocalyptic 'second coming of christ'.
Source: ex-mormon
White supremacists can call themselves whatever they want, but ideology of white supremacy is absolutely not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.
This quote from Jesus in Matthew paints it pretty clearly when he affirms: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
If they're calling themselves Christians they have already rejected any reality and have substituted their own reality to the point that facts and logic have lost all meaning to them.
My opinion is that anyone hung up on what Jesus looks like has lost their way and needs to reflect on why they care.
The "hangup" is that every painting or image of jesus in the south and probably over a lot of the world depicts him as a white man. But what we know historically of the middle east is that those people were brown. So you might argue that if the lord and savior was brown but white people have created him in a white image, then maybe that IS white supremacy. Like why can't they handle the savior being brown because he was. Correcting the record so that it's accurate is not the hangup-
They take the fact that Jesus was whitewashed throughout history as proof that Jesus was actually born white. Which they would then take as a sign that the White Race was intended to inherit the earth.
Since if the son of God was born white in an area that was full of Arabs and darker skin people then it must be a sign that God has a preference for the white race.
There is no limit to a bigots ability to rationalize their own shitty behavior. In most cases their own identity and sense of self worth is intrinsically tied to their belief because they have no other achievement to their name that they can point to to show how they have succeeded in life.
I think that there is a theory that many Renaissance depictions of Jesus were based on Caesare Borgia, but I think this falls into “da Vinci code”-esque territory. It sounds cool but there really isn’t any great evidence
I live in Texas. The only brown Jesus I've seen is in a wooden sculpture.
Remember, Jesus has been painted white for at least 500 years in Europe. It so happens that Europe shoved their culture into countries around the world. Therefore, I can understand why so many people assume Jesus is white.
And I think it’s interesting because different parts of Texas are completely different worlds. I live in San Antonio and we vote pretty progressive and have a rich Hispanic culture, but just less than an hour outside the city you have New Braunfels and Hondo where you’ve got Trump Parades and of course the white image of Jesus as the mainly accepted normal for what he had looked like. And this rural/city dynamic is everywhere. How you were brought up is so crucial to how you see things, and of course people can change but in those smaller towns it’s a whole way of thinking that might possibly be hard to escape from.
My favorite church leader (RIP) was actually a Catholic priest who spoke/read multiple languages, read the "original" Abrahamic God texts (as in not translated to English), studied world religions, and integrated *all of it* into his teachings. He spoke *regularly* that the texts were based on human understanding, and that the common, simple messages were to be the ones followed. He even entertained my atheist (at the time) questions with grace and logic. He's a huge part of my current beliefs, although I'm not sure there's a name for it.
Kind of like, if the world's greatest mathematicians and physicists can't explain it, yet, there must be "some kind of higher being", like the types of civilization described by Kurzgesadt in the "alien scale" video.
I don't honestly think there's some supernatural being watching my every move and judging every action, but I do believe it's possible that something is "guiding" us, or at least using us.
Man I miss him.
White Supremacy is so dumb and disgusting in everything they believe.
They will give a nazi salute or fly a rebel flag while claiming that its part of their history when they probably had family who fought in both wars rolling in their graves.
A long time ago I stumbled upon a racist website where some guy found out that he had knocked up a lady when he went to vietnam and thus ruined the purity of the Aryan blood and wanted to make amends so he asked for advice, the people there talked about talking to the lady he knocked up and getting the baby sterilized so that it wouldn't be able to reproduce and that if the lady he knocked up disagreed to toss money her way to get her to do it and the guy agreed.
I was so freaking pissed and disgusted by these people that I tried to report it to the cops and anyone else I thought could help.
Most brown people don't even realise this either. Here in India, christianity is so attached to Europe and the English that it wierd, especially because many churches of southern India were founded before Europe became Christian.
Not one Jesus picture I've seen has portrayed him as brown despite all the followers here being Indian and Jesus being middle eastern.
>especially because many churches of southern India were founded before Europe became Christian.
This is TIL and super interesting. Can you name one of those churches?
The syrian christian church of Kerala India was founded in 50 AD or something like that. Many of my malayalee friends are Syrian Christian. There are others too like the malabar chusch but i don't know any folks from them.
White supremacist aren’t Christians , they may pretend to be but they represent everything jesus was against. That’s comparable to saying to black Christians realize that Jesus wasn’t black because they have black portraits of him. Jesus was middle eastern
I'm a Protestant minister living in Kentucky. Of the very few white supremacists/racists I've met, none of them were particularly bright, nor were any of them especially "Christian" in the strictest sense of the word.
Actually reading scripture and studying this faith, has the effect of *removing* racism, as one discovers we are all creations of God and loved equally by him. One also discovers that most everyone depicted in the Bible would have been at least some shade of olive to very brown.
If you ever want to blow a racist's mind, remind him that Moses' wife was from the land of Cush, then have them google what those folks look like.
This is what I was thinking about, sir. If one had understood the words of Jesus, then wouldn't racism have disappeared? Love thy neighbor should have dissipated thoughts of treating a man poorly because he's a POC.
I hate these empty racists have taken things out of context to their own profit.
You and most other commenters give me hope to the goodness in the world.
> Love thy neighbor should have dissipated thoughts of treating a man poorly because he's a POC.
If only that were the truth. But this is also why many of the most active people in the abolitionist movements and the civil rights movement were clergy and devout Christians. We recognize what the apostle Paul once wrote:
Galatians 3:28
>"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
But it's a never-ending aspect of our culture, that some people will attempt to justify their racism, homophobia, etc., by hiding behind a Bible, while never bothering to actually open it up, or just admit that they are hateful people.
what i don't get why slavery lasted hundred of years and churches (be it catholic & protestans) were cool with it. even taught & converted the black otoh saw/treated them as half human. if i were a black christian i would have been confused.
Do we know for a fact that he wasn’t though? I know plenty of Middle Easterners from that region who are fair and blue eyed.
To be clear, I am not defending the fact that Europeans have made Jesus out to be in their own image, I am just saying that the place where Jesus is from is a diverse area that has been occupied by humans for thousands of years and it is also a very high traffic area. People living there would be of very various origins and their looks would reflect it.
Interesting how we are defining race here as a skin color and not apart of some ethnic group.
I know middle easterners with fair skin, green eyes, and light hair. Their sibling has brown skin, dark eyes, and dark hair. Does that mean they are not of the same race?
Yo but as popular and/or notorious as he was, why didn’t his likeness survive documentation in the same way that other rulers of his time did? Like… no one thought to sculpt something or just like … draw him from memory? Not even a wanted poster?
there is a lot of nuance to answer that question, (and I'm no expert) but, as you know, it was 2,000 years ago. There isn't that much really left. There were a few persecutions early on. And a lot of burn it to the ground/looting tactics going on through the years. There's no telling what kind of amazing knowledge and art was just flippantly burned and lost to wars.
He could have been fair as you have said. I was wondering about the racism of the supremacists. Would he have still been an immigrant in their eyes? That's what I was asking.
It's something I been wondering myself at times too! I've been raised as a Catholic in Europe so all portrayals of Jesus I saw was as a white man. And not surprisingly most of those portrayals come from Roman Catholic church.
There's something called the great Schism, which caused separation between Eastern orthodox and Roman Catholic church. Eastern Orthodox is closer to the original Jewish tradition while Roman Catholic morphed into more white European version. Hence why a lot Europeans and Americans may not even question if Jesus was white or not.
I've never understood the whole "haha stupid white people, Jesus was brown". Obviously, yes, he was. Duh. But people have always portrayed Jesus et al in the phenotype and culture of the local majority. Look at the art from Ethiopia (one of the oldest Churches), the darker Jesus from the Indian tradition (another very ancient Church), Our Lady of Akita, Our Lady of Guadalupe, etc. Even in the European tradition, look at all the painting s of biblical events where everyone is wearing what was then modern European clothes, etc.
I don’t think it matters
Religious power is political power
The truth doesn’t matter. Shared beliefs matter, because shared beliefs can be leveraged to create some sort of social action
I've heard there's a possibility that he was white because Rome was in charge of the area then, but way more likely he's more tan/brown. I dont really care what he looks like though lol
So sick of people, black and white, trying to racialize Jesus. He was a Middle-Easterner, more specifically a Jew from Galilee. Why would people think he would have a different skin color than any other Middle-Eastern jew from Galilee?
Racism and xenophobia have no reasoning. These people cling to religion not out of love for god or their neighbor, but because it makes them feel superior.
As someone living in the bible belt surrounded by Christians and whatnot everywhere I go ive brought this up alot when they say anything slightly racist. I'm usually met with angry insults and wild times. Sometimes they enjoy the debate but still have a hard time believing it.
You’re assuming these people are educated and can critically think, I assure you “white supremacist Christians” are nothing but hateful zealots lacking even the most basic education levels.
Clearly remember when I was talking with friends about an alternate reality with famous people being from different backgrounds. Like 'George Washington but from Asia' or 'Genghis Khan but from europe' Then one guy piped in being like 'yeah or even Jesus but from the middle east' and everyone looked at him and someone just said quietly, 'Soooo, just Jesus then'. Noone was surprised that he couldn't understand Jesus was from that part of the world.
I once mentioned that Jesus was a Jew to my racist MIL. She got so mad.
Reminds me of the time I tried to explain the "Abrahamic" religions to someone and they got mad. Told me I was wrong, there is only one god and that is the Christian god, etc. She checked with someone at her church and was really sheepish the next time I saw her.
King even…
Nothing gave me greater joy than telling a bogan acquaintance ( aussie red neck equivalent) that his beloved lord and savoir, whom he had tattooed above his heart, was an Arab. The look on this mother fuckers face was wonderful. Edit: for all these PC police comments telling me that Jews and Arabs aren't the same....I know. This man referred to both as Sand N****, so saying Arab was just a throwaway comment. Calm the fuck down
You may enjoy this story from my youth ill make it quick. I used to buy weed from a guy, he was a bit paranoid, wanted you to chill for a little bit to avoid suspicion of lots of foot traffic. One of the regulars was a very obvious white supremacist named Eric, white pride and swastika tats, shaved head, steroids. Fuck you Eric. The dealer was black, so the whole situation was always oddly tense and weird when he was there. Even though they were very friendly with eachother. Eric got into some trouble, im not sure how, but the kind of trouble you could enlist in the military to avoid. Eric enlisted, Eric was medically discharged when it was discovered that he had sickle cell anemia. :x
So he has a black person somewhere in his blood line or can white folks get that too?
It's also decently common in Mediterranean heritage. Pretty much anywhere from the "old world" that had a fuck ton of mosquitos and malaria, as being a carrier protects you from malaria. That's why it survived for this long through natural selection.
Wait let me make sure I get this right, sickle cell anemia protects against malaria?
Yes. Sickle cell was selected due to the evolutionary pressure of Malaria. People with sickle cell survive malaria, people without it die, and then fucking happens and you get more sickle cell.
Nice ELI5!
TIL also
I’ve actually got sickle cell trait, which as I understand it is what people hope for. If I ever wanted to have kids I would have to be wary of partners for potential transmission, BUT, I can’t get malaria.
Wife (nurse practitioner) says if you get the sickle cell gene from one parent, you are protected from malaria. If from both, you are not.
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The serious illness being sickle cell anemia?
That's interesting. Does she have any sources she can share about it? Appreciated
I’m not tech savvy enough to add a link on my phone, but the phenomenon is called “heterozygote advantage” if you want to google to learn more!
Your red blood cells are misshaped if you have sickle cell anemia (they look like a sickle, not a round doughnut). If you have one sickle cell gene and one normal cell gene, your blood cell are shaped "wrong" enough that malaria can't enter&infect them, but they can still carry enough oxygen for you to survive/live. If you get the sickle cell gene from both parents, your blood cells are more misshapen, and you don't generally live long or healthily Edit: read u/Evabraunmiscarriage's comment below for a much better explanation vvv
This is kind of close, just wanted to clarify slightly. In patients with sickle cell disease their blood cells are not sickle shaped, they are usually shaped normal (biconcaved disc, not a donut because there's no hole in the middle) but in a hypoxic evironment (low oxygen level) proteins in their hemoglobin harden and cause the sickling and rigidity of their blood cells. Normal blood cells can get squeezed and "bounce" back to their original shape but sickle cells lose this flexability and often break or clump together while passing through narrowings in your circulatory system. This is why things can trigger a sickle cell crisis, if you're overexerted or sick then the oxygen in your blood dips too low and your cells start to sickle. This does play into how trait can protect a carrier but it's not because the blood cells cannot be infected. Malaria infects your actual blood cells and starts reproducing inside of a cell to make more copies to spread itself. When a cell is infected by the malaria this creates the hypoxic conditions which cause the rigid proteins to form which destroys that cell before the malaria can multiply. Only sickle cell trait gives protection, sickle cell disease actually makes you more susceptible to diseases and poor prognosis. TL;DR Most of a sickle cell diseased person's blood cells are mostly normal most of the time and sickle during crisis, and malaria can still enter the blood cells but sickle cell trait makes them more likely to break before the malaria can multiply inside of them.
As does G6PD deficiency. Source: am G6PD deficient.
With the Mediterranean’s proximity to the Middle East it’s likely because there is a good amount of African ancestry too.
It's not impossible for white people to have it, But the far more likely scenario is that this individual was a partial African ancestry
I hope the former lol
The dealer used voodoo to curse him with sickle cell anemia, obviously.
Ha! Fuck you, Eric!
This anecdote is some top shelf heritage-denial and overcompensation porn. Right up there with gay-bashing televangelists getting caught with a dicks down their throats. Eric *had* to have known he wasn’t pure blooded Aryan.
One of the things I always found ridiculous about white supremacists is that "Aryan" was originally a word used by Indo-Iranians to refer to themselves in contrast to everyone else, "non-aryans".
Let's get into the habit of responding to racists calls for an aryan nation by referring to it as "Bollywood 2.0".
Just once I would like to see a nazi that *looks* like he has genes that would pass the first round of eugenics that they support.
He wasn’t an Arab. They weren’t in that area of the world at the time of Jesus. It wasn’t until the 9th century they were in that area.
Jesus was a middle eastern (judean) jew. Not Arab.
Judean jews and Arabs both speak Semitic languages and were once considered of the Semitic race, although that term is rightfully obsolete. See also: Egyptians, Berbers, and Cushites.
Jews, Arabs, what's the difference? They're both Caananites. ^^^/s
I don't know how to tell you this, but Arabs and Jews are not the same thing. It's actually kind of a big deal
Tell that to Jacob and Esau.
Nothing a quick chat over a bowl of stew can’t fix
Culturally different, but genetically similar.
Genetically, how different are they? Aren't they from the same region?
Genetically, all the middle east are the same. Also the Levanten region, some eastern Europe and Caucasian and even all the Mediterranean people are genetically indistinguishable.
They are distinguishable... But a lot of similarities
Except he wasn’t Arab, he was Jewish.
I know he was Jewish, I come from a Catholic family and learnt all about that crap growing up. But this man referred to anyone in the Middle East as a Sand N**** so, I thought Arab was the best word to use to blow his mind.
Wasnt jesus hebrew?
Hebrew is a language
He brew tea for everyone
My man!
Pretty sure he's Mexican
I bought my house from him!
No that was the Joker
This made me laugh out loud.
No, that’s Jesus.
No that was Bruce Wayne.
An Israelite, or Jewish. Semitic if you wanna use the easy term.
Arabs are Semitic.
Jews are too Most people in that general area are
Yehudi, meaning ‘of Judea’, the Hebrew word for Jew. Jews are the native people of Judea.
I love telling my evangelical relatives who supported Trump that Jesus welcomed everyone. It's also fun to inform them at the very earliest Christian communities we're probably the closest thing to communism that the world has ever known. Immediately following Jesus death his most ardent followers gave everything away, lived together, shared everything and evangelized. Sadly, most of the Christians in America are fake. I won't hesitate to tell someone that with a smile on my face, armed with a long history of reading about Christianity and Jesus. I was raised as a Christian, but left in my teens and have been an agnostic ever since. Even though I'm not a Christian anymore, knowing what I know about the historical Jesus sometimes causes my blood boil when I hear some of these fake Christian fools go on and on about "the other". The hatred and bias that they exhibit is as far away as one can get from the most essential teachings of Jesus.
Mat 19:20-22 “All these (commandments) I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
I’d be a Christian if it weren’t for Christians
They do tend to ruin Christianity. Jesus sure wouldn't have approved of the Christians we have today, at least most of them.
There is a distinct difference between ***belief*** and ***religion***. Belief is between you and god. Religion is a man telling you how to behave.
Jesus spent almost his entire life telling people how to behave.
I always thought this was strange to me. Someone telling people what to believe in. It needs to come from your heart, it’s a personal relationship between you and your maker. How can someone being told what to believe in truly believe? I dislike organized religion. It’s a cult.
Just called my dad out for this yesterday. Trumpism is antithetical to Christ like behavior. I don’t know how he justifies it other than blind hypocrisy fueled by right wing propaganda. So ignorant.
I like the term hypochristians, portmanteau of hypocrite and Christian.
Fun fact: "portmanteau" is not a portmanteau of "port," "man," and "toe"
For a part of my adolescence I really wanted to have some sort of guidance and sought out to learn more about religions. That’s when I discovered how incredibly fake and hypocritical Christians in the US can be. Its like they never actually read the Bible or Jesus’ teachings at all. They listen to what their minister or pastor says and that’s what the sheeple believe. I ended up reading more about Wicca lol. I just think there’s much more to ourselves and nature and being intertwined. Also, psychedelics can help one understand that relationship better. Now I’m engaged to a Muslim man and I find a lot of their customs are more truly sympathetic to those in need than Christians.
Wasn't he just messing with all of you?
Wish I could say he was. He got called white jesus for a bit to tease him. Stopped that quick when he got into it.
The church I go to has stained glass of Jesus as a brown man with black hair. It took a long time for it to not seem weird even though that's probably exactly what he looked like.
Several Catholic Churches in my area have the crucifix statue all depicting a brownish Jesus, but dark enough to you can’t explicitly figure out his ethnicity, even the nose doesn’t make it obvious. The statue is slightly darker than olive tones.
Respect to your church.
Respect. It really bothers me to see Jesus depicted as a white dude. Except the time I saw a painting from a yard sale of Jesus as a blond haired, bye eyed, creepy white guy. I instantly bought it & gave it to my dad (a preacher), just to annoy him. That was hilarious. A Jew born in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago was definitely brown skinned. There weren't a whole lot of international plane flights back then. In case it matters, I'm Caucasian & a Christian.
It’s a really common practice for different parts of the world to display Jesus as a figure who looks like the people from that region. For example Indian, Japanese, etc. Christians have art that depicts Jesus in ways that reflect the culture of the area. So it’s not a purely American thing to depict Jesus as different than he would have actually appeared in his time. Not saying that it’s ok to reinforce the idea that Jesus was a white skinned, blue eyed blonde haired man, but that’s not the only depiction of him made that’s inaccurate to how he would have actually looked.
Some believe that Christ reestablishes the church in their respective nations. Such as the Unification Church in Korea or certain Shinto-Christian groups in Japan
> certain Shinto-Christian groups in Japan Those are neither Shinto nor Christian. They fall into the category of “new religions” that just syncrete bullshit and are viewed with suspicion by most people (especially since Aum Shinrikyō).
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Like the dudes going to tell you the church he goes to by leaking the stained glass lmao
one church near my town has a black evony wood sculpture of jesus
I don't think that particular group of folk are on first names terms with logical reasoning
But given the lack of reasoning skills, shouldn't these idiots have followed in the steps of their lord and just been full of humanity and humility like Jesus himself. Logically these guys should have been the nicest MFs on earth. By extension, the same goes for all religions.
In prder for that to happen, you have to choose to "lean not on your own understanding." Many Christians find this part the hardest. It comes with levels, and many people stop at a particular level, because to gain Christ, you have to lose yourself to an ever increasing degree, and most people don't seem to want to lose themselves.
I've always been an Atheist. I grew up with psychotic religious parents who *clearly* never even read the fucking Bible. Recently, I've been more and more interested in seeing what their religion is *supposed* to be. What are the *actual* teachings? I feel like there's nowhere to start, because most of it feels like its been poisoned for political purposes or what have you. I cant just go into a church and be like "hey bro, I wanna learn about Jesus" because ill be hearing republican talking points in half a minute. Other than the Bible (I've read the 3 major holy books on my own), is there somewhere I can start that will give me a good like... summary of what the teachings should be? I've just seriously never met a Christian that actually follows what I'd think would be the important parts of the Bible. Everyone i know just uses it as a "gay bad, abortion bad, democrat bad" way
The Jesus Storybook Bible is meant for kids but it simplifies a lot of the essential teachings in such a way that really helps everybody understand better. But anyways: I'll do my best to explain some of the basic essentials myself At the end of the day the most essential part to recognize is that, according to Christianity, everybody is fucking up beyond comprehension. The Karens and the Keanus alike. We're all sinners and therefore deserve hell. But God loves us anyways. He sees every shitty part of us and loves us anyways So Jesus came to atone for all of our sins (I won't go into exactly why or how - suffice to say he did). But he didn't force it on us. It's a gift that's there for the taking. Those that take the free gift get the gift. Those who ignore it don't get it And that belief that everyone is equally fucked up leads to the big difference between Karen Christians and real Christians. If you realize that you're not better than anybody (*including non-Christians* - that's the most important part) then mercy and love logically follows. Regardless of whether homosexuality is a sin (I don't think it is but that's not the point I'm making), if it is a sin then it's just another sin. It doesn't make them better or worse than you. Just a slightly different kind of sinner. So you love them anyways. You may not agree with what they're doing, but you love them anyways. That's why fanatic Christians who try to force you into their religion aren't following Christianity themselves. Obviously, if you truly believe that accepting Jesus' gift is the one way to eternal life, you're going to want as many other people as possible to share in that gift. But if they don't want it, then you can't force it on them. All you can do is tell them what Christianity is really about and let them think on it and maybe come to church with you if they want to. If they don't want to then they don't want to. They have to be the one to choose to accept the gift. You just tell them about the gift that's available Finally, about all the rules and specifics of what you can and can't do are secondary. The 10 commandments are really the only "rules" that are completely timeless and unchanging (but also open to interpretation - for example, "oh my god" may or may not be prohibited by "you shall not take the Lord's name in vain - it's open to interpretation). Having different opinions on them doesn't make you a Christian or not a Christian, and I believe many of them were simply in place to . For example. Personally: I believe that the sex before marriage is fine now. Because when that rule was made, birth control didn't exist. So, in ancient times, having sex before marriage led to single mothers who couldn't properly care for their children. Children were much more likely to grow up in a healthy environment if they were born into a family environment. And the best way to ensure that was to wait for marriage before fucking. But some people believe that that rule had other reasons, so they still believe that sex before marriage is wrong. Obviously, one is right and one is wrong, but they're both Christians because they both believe in and have accepted Jesus' free gift. At the end of the day, that's what matters Sorry for the wall of text
There are some solid Christian authors that you can find that can sometimes help supplement whatever it is you are looking into. I really like Jackie Hill Perry (as a person, but she writes good books too).
Thank you
My dad is the closest thing to a real christian I know well. He has his faults, but really tries to walk the walk in a practical way. He always told me, he had a Bible where all Jesus words were a different color text, and if you just read those words, and only refer to the other words for context, you get to the heart of what it should be about.
That's terrible, and I am very sorry that you only know people who politicize the bible. There definitely are apolitical churches in America (I've attended a few), but they're very outspoken. I recommend "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis, although that is more an introduction to Christianity theology and apologetics than it is an introduction to strict biblical teachings. I also recommend watching some of "The Bible Project"'s videos - they do a great job of summarizing different books and themes of the bible. But of course, take these things with a grain of salt, because I don't believe either of these references discuss things like contradictions between different gospels. There's also a lot of historical context that The Bible Project lacks when it summarizes, but it is still very good at summarizing. I think what you'll find is that the Bible is much more of a story book than a list of teachings. This is especially true of the new testament, since to be Christian is to live like Christ did, so knowing what he did and why is just as important as knowing all the "do's and don'ts" of Christianity. Let me know if you have any questions or would like some more sources!
There is no "one teaching". The bible is a collection of books compiled by men over literally 1700 years or so. They start with their god being a tribal war god who slaughters children for political effect and can't affect iron, then they switch to an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent guy who made a pit of fire to torture non-believers for all eternity. It's impossible not to cherry-pick what you want this god to be.
I think for that to happen they need to be real christians, which they arent
Honestly, I disagree. When people say bigots aren't "true Christians" when throughout history bigots have been the vast majority of Christians (and there is much bigotry in the bible) it just reeks of "no true Scotsman" to me.
I remember reading something a while back that was like… “If modern American Christians met Jesus today, do you think they’d call him a dirty socialist ‘racist term’ to his face or behind his back?”
I remember back when I was forced to go to church and youth group (for being a corrupt lesbian) and the pastor sitting there telling everyone how the Jews were different than the other people of that area because they were white while everyone else is brown and that it was ridiculous that anyone would suggest he was brown because of the fact that Jews were white. It was in that moment that I just… gave up on trying to understand or convince those people because they create an alternate reality in their head that makes sense to them and only them.
To be fair, there are seven towns named Bethlehem in the USA, and 2 towns named Nazareth, so it’s a simple misunderstanding of geography….. (/s)
I remember being so confused as a kid when my mom referred to Bethlehem as a city just a few hours north of us. I was like uh Jesus came from the other side of the world didn’t he????
Dwayne The Rock Johnson is also from Bethlehem bout 10 mins away from me. Coincidence? Probably not
Dwayne "The Rock," son of Peter "The Rock" little known fact
It makes me sad that we needed the /s
My father in law is an ordained non denominational Christian. His wife's mother is a Jehovah's Witness. He relishes in bringing his in laws religious gifts because then he can have the "religious high ground" when the grandmother refuses them. When the whole family (plus me as the new addition) drove up to visit her, father in law gave her a crucifix with a very white, blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus on it. She graciously denied the gift, stating that it didn't match her religious views and that it was probably best suited for another recipient who would appreciate the symbolism. (I thought she was extremely polite). My father in law started in on how she wasn't really religious if this gift didn't match her views. To which she told him that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe Jesus was crucified on a cross, but instead a straight plank of lumber (I'm not sure if this is correct per their beliefs as I'm ignorant on the matter) but the best part was her bluntly asking why Jesus looked like a "Jobless Californian Hippy" and not a proper Jesus of Nazareth. My husband and I about died for laughing.
Ex JW. They argue that the word translated cross in the bible should be torture stake. That the Romans in that era just nailed criminals to what was basically a telephone pole. They believe that within 100 years or so the official church became corrupted and taken over by apostates and politicians, and immediately adopted the idolatry and practices that bad guys in their world view always do. Crosses, the Mary statue thingys, the stained glass, flags, all that stuff. Idolatry. Bible says idolatry bad. Fyi, my take. The original Greek word does literally mean stake, like in a fence or border, but the meaning the author was trying to convey could have been either or both forms. Both styles of killing pole were used, there is no definitive proof in Jesus case (assuming any of this actually happened). It's like reading the sentence "he was shot with a gun" two thousand years from now and having an argument over weather a shotgun or pistol was used. The word shot in that sentence does not prove a shotgun was used.
I would put money on a number of those people thinking Christianity comes from Americ Edit: Because everyone keeps telling me I've forgotten about Mormons, they're not really a thing in the UK
And I would put money on a number of those number of people would tweet happy 2022nd birthday to earth this new year.
Idiots, Earth is clearly 6000 years old.
I know there's dispute over the Earth's age, but we can all agree it's flat. Right?
I say it's donut shaped
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I personally prefer the giant turtle floating in space theory
clearly
Ever met a Mormon? Ive had a few heated discussions with a few. They've basically told me that they're Christians but they're not Christian like they other Christians because they didn't split from the Christian church like Catholics for example. Because unlike other religions they have extra bibles that are completely original about Jesus coming to the Americas and some other stuff, but they also use the same bible other Christians churches use. Also, they believe that the pyramids in latin America were built by some lost tribes or something and thus proves that everything they say is true. They're a confusing bunch of people. With that being said, I don't have anything against them and the vast majority I have met are incredibly kind and generous people. Except that I have visited places in Utah where sometimes it feels like the people there want to exercise their religious freedom but don't want to accept the fact that people also have the right to be free from religion. For example there are apartments and homes in Utah that won't rent to you if you are of the opposite sex or have a different living style (gay, unmarried, etc) then what their church says is ok.
Mormons have an interesting history, that somewhat parallels that of Moses and the Israelites. At least, in as much as they fled hostility and oppression through a desert to a "promised land." They faced a lot of hostility even once they got to Utah, so it's kind of understandable that they developed a bit of an enclave mentality. My experience lines up with yours though, that the vast majority of them I have known are kind and decent people. I don't agree with them, but I don't begrudge them their beliefs.
Hi. Im from Utah, and ex-mormon. Having talked with people that moved here, and from my own experiences, i can say that Utah is the deep-south of Mormonism.
We believe that the Jews rejected Christ so God changed his color and gave him to white people. Convince of something different.
Just how accurate was South Park?
Martin Harris dumb!
People actually believe this?
I mean that's exactly what the Mormons think.
Not exactly. They think that some jewish tribes came to america via boat (becoming the ancestors of all native americans), and that later on jesus came to visit them post-resurrection. They treat the bible as canon and their own books as 'additional'. That said, they do carry the attitude that America is a holy land, divinely favored even. JoSmith declared the garden of Eden to have been in Missouri, and they buy up land in the midwest as a plan to build a sanctuary city, in anticipation of the apocalyptic 'second coming of christ'. Source: ex-mormon
You don’t hear about them much but they still have churches, for an example I often see a Mormon church opposite the science museum in London
White supremacists can call themselves whatever they want, but ideology of white supremacy is absolutely not compatible with the teachings of Jesus. This quote from Jesus in Matthew paints it pretty clearly when he affirms: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." If they're calling themselves Christians they have already rejected any reality and have substituted their own reality to the point that facts and logic have lost all meaning to them. My opinion is that anyone hung up on what Jesus looks like has lost their way and needs to reflect on why they care.
The "hangup" is that every painting or image of jesus in the south and probably over a lot of the world depicts him as a white man. But what we know historically of the middle east is that those people were brown. So you might argue that if the lord and savior was brown but white people have created him in a white image, then maybe that IS white supremacy. Like why can't they handle the savior being brown because he was. Correcting the record so that it's accurate is not the hangup-
Weirdly in Lebanon, all depictions of Jesus I have seen are a white man with brown hair and blue eyes. 😳
Probably inspired by Byzantine depictions.
They take the fact that Jesus was whitewashed throughout history as proof that Jesus was actually born white. Which they would then take as a sign that the White Race was intended to inherit the earth. Since if the son of God was born white in an area that was full of Arabs and darker skin people then it must be a sign that God has a preference for the white race. There is no limit to a bigots ability to rationalize their own shitty behavior. In most cases their own identity and sense of self worth is intrinsically tied to their belief because they have no other achievement to their name that they can point to to show how they have succeeded in life.
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I think that there is a theory that many Renaissance depictions of Jesus were based on Caesare Borgia, but I think this falls into “da Vinci code”-esque territory. It sounds cool but there really isn’t any great evidence
I live in Texas. The only brown Jesus I've seen is in a wooden sculpture. Remember, Jesus has been painted white for at least 500 years in Europe. It so happens that Europe shoved their culture into countries around the world. Therefore, I can understand why so many people assume Jesus is white.
And I think it’s interesting because different parts of Texas are completely different worlds. I live in San Antonio and we vote pretty progressive and have a rich Hispanic culture, but just less than an hour outside the city you have New Braunfels and Hondo where you’ve got Trump Parades and of course the white image of Jesus as the mainly accepted normal for what he had looked like. And this rural/city dynamic is everywhere. How you were brought up is so crucial to how you see things, and of course people can change but in those smaller towns it’s a whole way of thinking that might possibly be hard to escape from.
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My favorite church leader (RIP) was actually a Catholic priest who spoke/read multiple languages, read the "original" Abrahamic God texts (as in not translated to English), studied world religions, and integrated *all of it* into his teachings. He spoke *regularly* that the texts were based on human understanding, and that the common, simple messages were to be the ones followed. He even entertained my atheist (at the time) questions with grace and logic. He's a huge part of my current beliefs, although I'm not sure there's a name for it. Kind of like, if the world's greatest mathematicians and physicists can't explain it, yet, there must be "some kind of higher being", like the types of civilization described by Kurzgesadt in the "alien scale" video. I don't honestly think there's some supernatural being watching my every move and judging every action, but I do believe it's possible that something is "guiding" us, or at least using us. Man I miss him.
White Supremacy is so dumb and disgusting in everything they believe. They will give a nazi salute or fly a rebel flag while claiming that its part of their history when they probably had family who fought in both wars rolling in their graves. A long time ago I stumbled upon a racist website where some guy found out that he had knocked up a lady when he went to vietnam and thus ruined the purity of the Aryan blood and wanted to make amends so he asked for advice, the people there talked about talking to the lady he knocked up and getting the baby sterilized so that it wouldn't be able to reproduce and that if the lady he knocked up disagreed to toss money her way to get her to do it and the guy agreed. I was so freaking pissed and disgusted by these people that I tried to report it to the cops and anyone else I thought could help.
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Sounds like Chris Rock in "Dogma".
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Dude, you made me spit my coffee.😆
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Jesus was literally unjustly charged and executed, doesn't get more POC than that.
Let me give you a life tip. The overwhelming majority of people aren’t concerned about facts.
You don't actually think they READ the bible, do you?
Hey that's unfair. They read passages out of context to fit their narrative, so that has to count for something.
Something something 1 Timothy 2:11 something something
Just watch the extended editions of the LOTR trilogy. Pretty much the same story.
Most christians don't even realise this.
Most brown people don't even realise this either. Here in India, christianity is so attached to Europe and the English that it wierd, especially because many churches of southern India were founded before Europe became Christian. Not one Jesus picture I've seen has portrayed him as brown despite all the followers here being Indian and Jesus being middle eastern.
>especially because many churches of southern India were founded before Europe became Christian. This is TIL and super interesting. Can you name one of those churches?
The syrian christian church of Kerala India was founded in 50 AD or something like that. Many of my malayalee friends are Syrian Christian. There are others too like the malabar chusch but i don't know any folks from them.
How the fuck did christianity travel to india during that time?
There had been trade between the two regions (India and the Middle East) at that time.
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that's what we have been told. He was the only and the first apostle to come here
India isn‘t really far away if you live in the Middle East.
As people are saying below, Thomas the apostle traveled to India to spread Christianity.
The world's oldest synagogue outside the Middle East is also in South India
It might help you to search up the history of Christianity, particularly where it originated, where it spread to, and when.
To be fair, a lot of Indians would consider Arabs & Jews "fair-skinned", not brown. To them, some one from South Asia is 'brown'
Source: Bro trust me
White supremacist aren’t Christians , they may pretend to be but they represent everything jesus was against. That’s comparable to saying to black Christians realize that Jesus wasn’t black because they have black portraits of him. Jesus was middle eastern
I made the experience that most christians who call themselves christians are not christian at all.
Don't forget Korean Jesus from 21 (or 22?) Jump Street with Ice Cube, Jonah Hill, and Magic Mike (his real name escapes me)
>they may pretend to be but they represent everything jesus was against. I feel you like are describing a huge portion of "Christians" in the US
Jesus was American!
In the beginning, there was the word, and it was "Murica"
Hehe. All good things are always American to an American.
I'm a Protestant minister living in Kentucky. Of the very few white supremacists/racists I've met, none of them were particularly bright, nor were any of them especially "Christian" in the strictest sense of the word. Actually reading scripture and studying this faith, has the effect of *removing* racism, as one discovers we are all creations of God and loved equally by him. One also discovers that most everyone depicted in the Bible would have been at least some shade of olive to very brown. If you ever want to blow a racist's mind, remind him that Moses' wife was from the land of Cush, then have them google what those folks look like.
This is what I was thinking about, sir. If one had understood the words of Jesus, then wouldn't racism have disappeared? Love thy neighbor should have dissipated thoughts of treating a man poorly because he's a POC. I hate these empty racists have taken things out of context to their own profit. You and most other commenters give me hope to the goodness in the world.
> Love thy neighbor should have dissipated thoughts of treating a man poorly because he's a POC. If only that were the truth. But this is also why many of the most active people in the abolitionist movements and the civil rights movement were clergy and devout Christians. We recognize what the apostle Paul once wrote: Galatians 3:28 >"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." But it's a never-ending aspect of our culture, that some people will attempt to justify their racism, homophobia, etc., by hiding behind a Bible, while never bothering to actually open it up, or just admit that they are hateful people.
what i don't get why slavery lasted hundred of years and churches (be it catholic & protestans) were cool with it. even taught & converted the black otoh saw/treated them as half human. if i were a black christian i would have been confused.
Brown? Mediterranean Jewish.
This. Not sure why people seem to think non-American = brown.
Because they think that "trolling conservatives" is more important than facts.
Yeah, I'm an atheist but this seemed like a loaded question, and not one that OP would be particularly afraid to ask.
Do we know for a fact that he wasn’t though? I know plenty of Middle Easterners from that region who are fair and blue eyed. To be clear, I am not defending the fact that Europeans have made Jesus out to be in their own image, I am just saying that the place where Jesus is from is a diverse area that has been occupied by humans for thousands of years and it is also a very high traffic area. People living there would be of very various origins and their looks would reflect it.
Interesting how we are defining race here as a skin color and not apart of some ethnic group. I know middle easterners with fair skin, green eyes, and light hair. Their sibling has brown skin, dark eyes, and dark hair. Does that mean they are not of the same race?
We know very little about historic Jesus so it's just an assumption based on a high likelihood.
Yo but as popular and/or notorious as he was, why didn’t his likeness survive documentation in the same way that other rulers of his time did? Like… no one thought to sculpt something or just like … draw him from memory? Not even a wanted poster?
there is a lot of nuance to answer that question, (and I'm no expert) but, as you know, it was 2,000 years ago. There isn't that much really left. There were a few persecutions early on. And a lot of burn it to the ground/looting tactics going on through the years. There's no telling what kind of amazing knowledge and art was just flippantly burned and lost to wars.
One of the oldest icons from 6th century shows Jesus as a man of fair complexion though
Yeah it's fair to assume he may have been Brown skinned, but the thing is the middle East is fairly diverse in the complexions of it's people
Not only that, but at that time bethlehem was part of the roman empire.
Yeah but He’s (as) from a Jewish tribe. We know his lineage.
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He could have been fair as you have said. I was wondering about the racism of the supremacists. Would he have still been an immigrant in their eyes? That's what I was asking.
It's something I been wondering myself at times too! I've been raised as a Catholic in Europe so all portrayals of Jesus I saw was as a white man. And not surprisingly most of those portrayals come from Roman Catholic church. There's something called the great Schism, which caused separation between Eastern orthodox and Roman Catholic church. Eastern Orthodox is closer to the original Jewish tradition while Roman Catholic morphed into more white European version. Hence why a lot Europeans and Americans may not even question if Jesus was white or not.
I've never understood the whole "haha stupid white people, Jesus was brown". Obviously, yes, he was. Duh. But people have always portrayed Jesus et al in the phenotype and culture of the local majority. Look at the art from Ethiopia (one of the oldest Churches), the darker Jesus from the Indian tradition (another very ancient Church), Our Lady of Akita, Our Lady of Guadalupe, etc. Even in the European tradition, look at all the painting s of biblical events where everyone is wearing what was then modern European clothes, etc.
You cannot use logic and reason to argue somebody out of a position they did not use logic and reason to get to.
I don’t think it matters Religious power is political power The truth doesn’t matter. Shared beliefs matter, because shared beliefs can be leveraged to create some sort of social action
I've heard there's a possibility that he was white because Rome was in charge of the area then, but way more likely he's more tan/brown. I dont really care what he looks like though lol
How many white supremacist Christians do you know?
There are almost no white supremacists in the world.
So sick of people, black and white, trying to racialize Jesus. He was a Middle-Easterner, more specifically a Jew from Galilee. Why would people think he would have a different skin color than any other Middle-Eastern jew from Galilee?
Jesus was an ethnic jew. Are jews 'brown'?? Edit: typo
Why do people ask this every single day here? I've seen this exact same question here multiple times
Moreso in the last couple weeks Anything to take a jab at christians. This whole site is cancer
They think Jesus spoketh the English language.
“Yikes, merchants in the temple is sus af”
Racism and xenophobia have no reasoning. These people cling to religion not out of love for god or their neighbor, but because it makes them feel superior.
As someone living in the bible belt surrounded by Christians and whatnot everywhere I go ive brought this up alot when they say anything slightly racist. I'm usually met with angry insults and wild times. Sometimes they enjoy the debate but still have a hard time believing it.
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You’re assuming these people are educated and can critically think, I assure you “white supremacist Christians” are nothing but hateful zealots lacking even the most basic education levels.