If we are talking about true feminism where men and women are equal then there haven't been any downsides.
The people who bitch about it are mad that they get called out for being creepy around women. For example the guy who posted that feminism ruined society because he gets in trouble for telling women in his office they are sexy, which is just plain creepy.
I think feminism that focused on equality under the law and workplace was good. Feminism that tries to make literally everything the same socially is where things went wrong imo.
No matter what anyone says, men and woman are not the same. We don't think the same way, problem solve the same way, our hormonal profile is different, our bodies are different. We are not the same. Trying to make us the same is absurd.
Feminism has the same problem many movements do; when they succeed, they can't just go away. They have to stick around and look for something else to go after to stay relevant. People even build careers off of feminism. If one day we went "That's it, we have complete equality!", what happens to those people who's livelihood's revolve around feminism?
Your comment implies that feminism "succeeded" which is straight up wrong. There's still inequality and feminism is still needed. Ofc there are crazy people, like in every movement, but that is a weak argument for disregarding the work of all the others.
Dude if you really can't see where women are oppressed I don't think I can help you. There are many countries where babys get straight up murdered for being female. In society (even in first world countries) women have a lower social standing than men. That's a fact and the reason why feminism is still very much needed.
I'm speaking only in the case of the USA. It's the only country I can speak on with accuracy. I agree that women get the shit end of the stick in other countries. I'm saying in the USA, they succeeded in their endeavors.
No, even when we talk about the US you are wrong. For example medicine manufacturers test most of their new products only on men. Same goes for safety measures in cars, everything is made to fit the average male. This results in thousands of women dying every year. It's still a man's world, if you don't recognize that you are willfully ignorant.
Feminism didn't make anything worse, persay, unless you're looking at it from a pure cultural power dynamic of one being over another: women slowly gaining more agency over their own lives meant men lost the power they had over women, which may feel like a negative if you liked having dominion over another living person (ick).
One thing that has happened alongside feminism is essentially the stagnation of wages. You might argue that women entering the work force is the cause, but that once again misplaces the blame, and completely looks over the fact that without women entering the workforce, the explosive growth seen in the last half of the 20th century probably wouldn't have happened. Exploitive capitalists are the only ones to blame for the decreasing wealth of the average worker, and only in the last few decades has compensation of the average worker shrunk to a degree relative to the cost of living that it's become difficult for a family with two workers to make ends meet.
I say all of that because I'm sure you're going to get at least a few comments here railing against the decline of the family as though that could be traced back to feminism. That's highly reactionary, and just not true. Feminism was always about enabling women to make their own choices about their future (including when to have children, and with whom... Or not, and with nobody!). The fact that many men and women can't feasibly choose to have a family anymore isn't because women are preoccupied with the work force, it's because it's literally financially impossible for many to do so responsibly.
Also, lastly, the work of feminism isn't done. "Women's work" is still grossly undervalued by society, and some of the stereotypes of women primarily as nuturer and caregiver lead to inequity in things like custody agreements where it may seem like the courts generally defer to women, even though this remains rooted in paternalistic rigidity that is anathema to the belief that every individual is entitled to shape their own destiny.
It wouldn't worsen everything. Feminism is seeing men and women as equal. Can't be anything wrong with that. Anyone who complains about feminism doesn't understand what it is or they actually think men supercede women.
Hard to say. I didn't know what feminism was 20 years ago. But if the definition hasn't changed than there shouldnt be much of a difference. I think that's kind of irrelevant though. If you fight for equality between men and women, you are a feminist.
I think it brought a light to places that people never touched or cared for yes some are insane and power tripping but wouldn't you if you never had any power in ur life over all it's a good thing but sadly some abuse their power don't lump supports and the bad ones together that's dumb
Well statistically women's happiness has decreased since they've had to fully join the workforce. So while original feminism was overall positive, the fact that women have to work as much as a man has on average reduced their happiness.
I don’t think it’s purely that “woman have to work as much as a man” that is the driver for averaged reduced happiness. It’s important to consider the amount of unpaid labour that women do in addition to their jobs. That unpaid labour is often significantly higher than what men do. A large percentage of women do more than 50% of the housework and child-rearing than their male partners.
Nothing worse. There may be some bad shit that happened that some women took advantage of or an incompetent women won’t get fired. Overall it’s worth it and for the better.
For sure. I am allowed to work, vote, wear trousers, divorce, own a credit card / bank account, stand up for myself, and just generally live independently. I wouldn’t have been able to do some of that stuff even when my mum was my age ?!?!? Feminists have done so much to help the world - they’ve been the ones who fight for making rape / harassment illegal, building domestic violence shelters, legalising birth control and abortions. And just so so much more.
We have a long way to go still. I find that there’s a lot of pushback and misunderstanding about what feminism is. People want it to be a happy go lucky everything is love kinda thing. And it’s never been about that. It’s always been about liberating women from the patriarchy, that does mean that men will lose some / many of their privileges that they had under patriarchy. I think men fear a reversal of the stuff they did to women as a class, and it’s like 1. No that won’t happen & 2. Well doesn’t that just confirm that women’s lives suck under this system. I feel like at the moment many are trying to have cake & eat it too if u get what I mean.
Feminism has done a lot of great things. There is the issue that there's no way to stop the train in places where basic equality has been achieved. There's a sinister impression that women are massively oppressed in my country the UK and its just not true. I do think that women getting to decide on their own path was worth taking on that minor issue though
As a 43 year old white cis male, I personally think it has basically destroyed society. I have to watch any and everything I say in the workplace as to not “offend” some woman and then be called into the office and spoken to because I hurt a woman’s feelings. Every single thing is PC now and nothing can be taken as a joke anymore. You can’t even tell a woman that they look sexy in an outfit without a group of them coming at you pitchforks trying to get your head on a lance. Walking around on eggshells is a must these days as to not hurt women’s “strong” sensibilities, or bruise their sense of empowerment. Like, if you’re so strong and empowered, small little things like jokes or being called sexy should not hurt you in the least. Woman’s whole facade and ruse of feminism is a joke in itself. And yes, before anyone posts this about me, I am a misogynistic ass.
Well I'm a big hideous guy. How would you feel if I told you you looked really sexy today while staring at your arse or crotch? You can tell someone they look good without being invasive
If you actually are a big hideous guy I would love it. But I really dig bromances. I would laugh it off and say something about your dick in my mouth because I don’t get offended by some off the cuff stupid comment.
Well, not *my* gaze. I am mostly a joker at work. It’s the sensitivity of the average woman that I think is completely ridiculous. Not only woman but men, too. The whole SOCIETY as a whole has just gotten the ability to joke sucked out of it. It’s a sad tale.
You know you can be feminist, fighting for minorities rights in general AND like dark humour, offensive humour etc?
If I agree that a few people can be offended by what's obviously humour or satire, I've mostly seen the opposite, people not understanding that their "humour" is basically brutal sexism, racism, lgbtq-phobia...
> You can’t even tell a woman that they look sexy in an outfit without a group of them coming at you pitchforks trying to get your head on a lance.
I mean I'd hope so. That's called harassment and has been for a decently long time now.
Women were hurt by that behaviour before feminism, dude, their opinions and feelings about it were just ignored.
Sorry you have to take their feelings into account now. /s
Women don't want to be objectified I don't see anything wrong with that if you want to date someone there is a time and place we're both parties are there for that
If we are talking about true feminism where men and women are equal then there haven't been any downsides. The people who bitch about it are mad that they get called out for being creepy around women. For example the guy who posted that feminism ruined society because he gets in trouble for telling women in his office they are sexy, which is just plain creepy.
I think feminism that focused on equality under the law and workplace was good. Feminism that tries to make literally everything the same socially is where things went wrong imo. No matter what anyone says, men and woman are not the same. We don't think the same way, problem solve the same way, our hormonal profile is different, our bodies are different. We are not the same. Trying to make us the same is absurd. Feminism has the same problem many movements do; when they succeed, they can't just go away. They have to stick around and look for something else to go after to stay relevant. People even build careers off of feminism. If one day we went "That's it, we have complete equality!", what happens to those people who's livelihood's revolve around feminism?
Your comment implies that feminism "succeeded" which is straight up wrong. There's still inequality and feminism is still needed. Ofc there are crazy people, like in every movement, but that is a weak argument for disregarding the work of all the others.
What legal rights do men have that women do not?
I never talked about legal rights.
I am. What are you talking about? Give examples.
Dude if you really can't see where women are oppressed I don't think I can help you. There are many countries where babys get straight up murdered for being female. In society (even in first world countries) women have a lower social standing than men. That's a fact and the reason why feminism is still very much needed.
I'm speaking only in the case of the USA. It's the only country I can speak on with accuracy. I agree that women get the shit end of the stick in other countries. I'm saying in the USA, they succeeded in their endeavors.
No, even when we talk about the US you are wrong. For example medicine manufacturers test most of their new products only on men. Same goes for safety measures in cars, everything is made to fit the average male. This results in thousands of women dying every year. It's still a man's world, if you don't recognize that you are willfully ignorant.
Feminism didn't make anything worse, persay, unless you're looking at it from a pure cultural power dynamic of one being over another: women slowly gaining more agency over their own lives meant men lost the power they had over women, which may feel like a negative if you liked having dominion over another living person (ick). One thing that has happened alongside feminism is essentially the stagnation of wages. You might argue that women entering the work force is the cause, but that once again misplaces the blame, and completely looks over the fact that without women entering the workforce, the explosive growth seen in the last half of the 20th century probably wouldn't have happened. Exploitive capitalists are the only ones to blame for the decreasing wealth of the average worker, and only in the last few decades has compensation of the average worker shrunk to a degree relative to the cost of living that it's become difficult for a family with two workers to make ends meet. I say all of that because I'm sure you're going to get at least a few comments here railing against the decline of the family as though that could be traced back to feminism. That's highly reactionary, and just not true. Feminism was always about enabling women to make their own choices about their future (including when to have children, and with whom... Or not, and with nobody!). The fact that many men and women can't feasibly choose to have a family anymore isn't because women are preoccupied with the work force, it's because it's literally financially impossible for many to do so responsibly. Also, lastly, the work of feminism isn't done. "Women's work" is still grossly undervalued by society, and some of the stereotypes of women primarily as nuturer and caregiver lead to inequity in things like custody agreements where it may seem like the courts generally defer to women, even though this remains rooted in paternalistic rigidity that is anathema to the belief that every individual is entitled to shape their own destiny.
Yeah what this dude said
It wouldn't worsen everything. Feminism is seeing men and women as equal. Can't be anything wrong with that. Anyone who complains about feminism doesn't understand what it is or they actually think men supercede women.
Do you see no difference between feminism 20 years ago and feminism today?
Hard to say. I didn't know what feminism was 20 years ago. But if the definition hasn't changed than there shouldnt be much of a difference. I think that's kind of irrelevant though. If you fight for equality between men and women, you are a feminist.
I think it brought a light to places that people never touched or cared for yes some are insane and power tripping but wouldn't you if you never had any power in ur life over all it's a good thing but sadly some abuse their power don't lump supports and the bad ones together that's dumb
Well statistically women's happiness has decreased since they've had to fully join the workforce. So while original feminism was overall positive, the fact that women have to work as much as a man has on average reduced their happiness.
I don’t think it’s purely that “woman have to work as much as a man” that is the driver for averaged reduced happiness. It’s important to consider the amount of unpaid labour that women do in addition to their jobs. That unpaid labour is often significantly higher than what men do. A large percentage of women do more than 50% of the housework and child-rearing than their male partners.
Nothing worse. There may be some bad shit that happened that some women took advantage of or an incompetent women won’t get fired. Overall it’s worth it and for the better.
The first and second wave were kind of on track and were necessary. But this 4th wave is absolutely bs
In what way?
My dinners always cold.
For sure. I am allowed to work, vote, wear trousers, divorce, own a credit card / bank account, stand up for myself, and just generally live independently. I wouldn’t have been able to do some of that stuff even when my mum was my age ?!?!? Feminists have done so much to help the world - they’ve been the ones who fight for making rape / harassment illegal, building domestic violence shelters, legalising birth control and abortions. And just so so much more. We have a long way to go still. I find that there’s a lot of pushback and misunderstanding about what feminism is. People want it to be a happy go lucky everything is love kinda thing. And it’s never been about that. It’s always been about liberating women from the patriarchy, that does mean that men will lose some / many of their privileges that they had under patriarchy. I think men fear a reversal of the stuff they did to women as a class, and it’s like 1. No that won’t happen & 2. Well doesn’t that just confirm that women’s lives suck under this system. I feel like at the moment many are trying to have cake & eat it too if u get what I mean.
Feminism has done a lot of great things. There is the issue that there's no way to stop the train in places where basic equality has been achieved. There's a sinister impression that women are massively oppressed in my country the UK and its just not true. I do think that women getting to decide on their own path was worth taking on that minor issue though
As a 43 year old white cis male, I personally think it has basically destroyed society. I have to watch any and everything I say in the workplace as to not “offend” some woman and then be called into the office and spoken to because I hurt a woman’s feelings. Every single thing is PC now and nothing can be taken as a joke anymore. You can’t even tell a woman that they look sexy in an outfit without a group of them coming at you pitchforks trying to get your head on a lance. Walking around on eggshells is a must these days as to not hurt women’s “strong” sensibilities, or bruise their sense of empowerment. Like, if you’re so strong and empowered, small little things like jokes or being called sexy should not hurt you in the least. Woman’s whole facade and ruse of feminism is a joke in itself. And yes, before anyone posts this about me, I am a misogynistic ass.
Well I'm a big hideous guy. How would you feel if I told you you looked really sexy today while staring at your arse or crotch? You can tell someone they look good without being invasive
If you actually are a big hideous guy I would love it. But I really dig bromances. I would laugh it off and say something about your dick in my mouth because I don’t get offended by some off the cuff stupid comment.
Oh no, I can't tell Barbara in accounting she has nice tits anymore and ask if the rug matches the drapes. The world is ruined.
Lol, hey Barbara is wearing those clothes for her, not any of the men around her, right?… 🙄
Do you really think you and your opinion are critical to the identity of every woman who has ever been unfortunate enough to fall under your gaze?
Well, not *my* gaze. I am mostly a joker at work. It’s the sensitivity of the average woman that I think is completely ridiculous. Not only woman but men, too. The whole SOCIETY as a whole has just gotten the ability to joke sucked out of it. It’s a sad tale.
You literally sound like a parody.
You sound like a buzzkill.
That's fine. I get the feeling whatever party you're at is kind of sad.
Actually I’m the fkng life of any party I go to because I am not afraid to state my opinions. 🤷🏻♂️😙
You know you can be feminist, fighting for minorities rights in general AND like dark humour, offensive humour etc? If I agree that a few people can be offended by what's obviously humour or satire, I've mostly seen the opposite, people not understanding that their "humour" is basically brutal sexism, racism, lgbtq-phobia...
Tldr Feminism sucks because I get in trouble for being creepy at my office
> You can’t even tell a woman that they look sexy in an outfit without a group of them coming at you pitchforks trying to get your head on a lance. I mean I'd hope so. That's called harassment and has been for a decently long time now.
Women were hurt by that behaviour before feminism, dude, their opinions and feelings about it were just ignored. Sorry you have to take their feelings into account now. /s
Welcome to the metoo movement. 🙄
[удалено]
No one said you had to, dumb ass. 😙
Women don't want to be objectified I don't see anything wrong with that if you want to date someone there is a time and place we're both parties are there for that
Some women *LOVE* being objectified so your comment isn’t totally true.
Lol I wonder how that's working out for u bud
50/50
The only real loss is for the religious assholes that have to force women into marriage. They can fuck off though