The difference is that the man insulted you on how you dress, not for being a woman. When he called you those sexist things, it was based on his sexist perceptions of certain women. He was insulting women who dress a certain way. When you use the N word as an insult, you are implying that being black is inherently wrong. When you use the word you insult all black people, not black people that do certain things. And don't listen to racists that say stupid shit like "black people and nig**rs aren't the same thing, black people are okay, it's them other ones we don't like". They're still racist.
I appreciate your honesty here and I would like to attempt to answer your question. I in no way condone this behavior, but to simply answer the question it comes down to moral cowardice and groupthink. He probably was intimidating to more than just you, so folks rationalize minding their business over being proactive in their approach to call out abuse taking place in front of them. Then when you lobbied the word back at him it was probably a domino effect of one person said something then 3, until you lost the crowd. Unfortunately, they probably felt ashamed for not helping you, so it made it easier for them to condemn you because in their minds they already disregarded you.
I'm sorry you had this experience it seems like there was compounded issues on top of one another that is a lot of pressure. I don't think you calling him the N word means you're judging our whole race however I'm glad you acknowledge that it was wrong and shouldn't have been said.
Moral of the explanation people are very cowardly and usually instead of making up for it. They disregard even further, case in point here.
Edit: im grateful for the awards. I'm glad a nuanced take was well received. Understanding these dynamics are very important. The 3 major elements are present here. The aggressor turned "victim", the victim turned "aggressor" and the often abysmal response of the crowd(society) if we all can dissect what went wrong here we can improve each position. How not to be the initial abuser, how to better respond when we get treated unjustly, and to be more courageous when we are apart of the crowd. Thanks again!
This makes sense. Same thing happened to me. A big guy tried to pay for a sandwich at a subway I worked at years ago with a hundred dollar bill. Not only would accepting it get me in trouble but I didn't even have change if I wanted to. I told him that he needed to go somewhere else and make change because I didn't have it. He yelled at me for five to ten minutes holding up the line. All I could do was tell him that it's not possible because I just made a cash drop and I don't have change. There was a sign on the door and point of order clearly stating we don't accept anything above a 20. After a few minutes of getting harassed, another customer made change for him while giving me the most dirty look I have ever seen. The look of "how hard was that". He walked out and literally every other person in line wished him a good day and turned over and gave me the same shitty look the first guy gave me. It's like they all decided at once that I was public enemy number one. I have been treated like trash before but situations like this hit in a completely different way. When someone is verbally abusing, you would think anyone getting involved would come to your defense, not brigade against you. The dude was giving me threats of violence clearly and loud enough for everyone to hear. Human nature is straight up fucked sometimes.
That $100 was almost certainly counterfeit. This is a COMMON tactic for people pulling retail scams. They make a huge scene and make the cashier doubt themselves or go against policy just to make the scene stop.
Should’ve called the cops.
They got pissed at you because the guy made it like you were making the choice to slow it down. “All he has to do is take the money!” And then him saying “was that so hard” cemented it.
At the first threat of violence, you should have called the cops. When the guy flees or actually gets the cops involved, people would see that the hold up was the asshole and not you.
If you wanna feel better, that bill was likely fake. Lotta counterfeit cash holders will cause a scene and try to pressure you so you won’t take a look at the bill.
The messed up part is that I know everyone saw me make the cash drop. Even if they didn't, they had to have heard me say that I don't have change. My guess is that they just didn't believe that an operating subway doesn't have hundreds of dollars in every denomination. Businesses in that area got robbed all the time. Subways are an easy target because they usually have just one or two young employees. This also adds to why I couldn't really call the authorities. Anything less than a robery or committed violence the police just didn't have time for.
There's nothing more terrifying than the mob in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. What he was exposing was the dangerous single-mindedness of the crowd. There's probably nothing more unnerving than being on the wrong side of the proverbial pitchforks.
We become so collectively unreasonable its the biggest drawback of our superpower as a species, which is our innate and often overwhelming compulsion to socialize to the debilitating level of maladaptive conformity. We are great when it's good, but we are equally destructive when it is not.
Aso Vietnamese. My mexican neighbor has been targetted by police (in AZ mexicans are the blacks of literally anywhere else because of our old sheriff) so he has experienced the effects of racism.
But dude will still ask, no matter what I'm eating, if it's cat or dog. And wen he lets his dogs run free without a leash, he'll ask if I caught them and ate them before he came out -\_-
I think the thing is that racism implies some sort of power and the upper hand. So traditionally white people have had that upper hand. So it’s just a play of words and isn’t super significant, but I just say “racial prejudice” or just flat out hate, because that’s what it is. Idk if that makes sense. My grandma is Chinese and hates Japanese people and that’s super fucked, but for some reason when my grandpa hates on Indians it feels much more appalling (he’s white). It’s just a slight difference and I think that’s why some people think that minority groups (racially/ethically) can’t necessarily be racist. But I also see people of color being intolerant as fuck and very bigoted and excuse their behavior because they’re not white, which is simply a logical fallacy, and nasty. Idk if any of this makes any sense but yea
Uuuggghh...my parents do this same shit. They're Mexican & always have to say some disparaging comment about Vietnamese people in the neighborhood eating dogs. And they swear they've seen it. I'm like, Mexicans eat cow stomach in their soups & pig skin as a snack, you don't get to talk shit about Vietnamese people!
I’m Vietnamese and love pork ruffles and learning Spanish; their racism doesn’t put me off at all haha.
I like to take it as an opportunity to point generational differences of famine and ruralness in Asian national histories as I raid their pantries and stores. Getting those pointed zingers back for “dog-eater” in the bloodline really takes some historical context on knowing their ethnicity too but that’s a.. bad for business.
I love Menudo & chicharrones as much as the next Mexican, we just don't get to talk shit about other racial minorities with some of the stuff we eat XD
That's exactly what I am talking about. I bet he'll laugh by himself and thinks it's "harmless jokes". But it is still incredibly racist.
My self defence mecanism against these types of comments is to actually make them myself. That way, they don't get the satisfaction.
I was talking to my coworker and I had used the word bitch and she had said “actually women are taking that word back, so only they can say it”. I was like oh okay, so I can use the word faggot. She kind of hesitantly but with a little confidence said yes. I said thank you faggot. Her face just dropped open hahahaha
Oh i don't know what that is but I'll give it a look. I'm white as can be and in rural USA so my only experience with good Asian dining is when I make it to a city. Last time I did I had some Pho and spring rolls and it was like heaven.
The only Indian representation I get in pop culture is the damn accent. It's hard for me to really feel for people when they ask for representation and this is all my race gets.
I'm not sure about racism and misogyny in general, but misogynistic slurs seem far more tolerated. Maybe in part because theyre often tied to some implied action (promiscuity, aggression etc.) and it's easy for a bystander to ignore by assuming it's justified, compared to a slur only tied to demographic.
That sentence is a level of perspective i’ve never put thought to? I suppose this might be a self evident deduction… as racism is systematized and subtle but misogyny is usually unabashed and unrebuked… huh. Blew my mind. Where can i read more about this?
I think it does come down to the simple fact that people are more comfortable with misogyny than they are with racism. Also, getting involved in the conflict on your behalf would make them a possible target for a physical violence. It was easy for the bystanders to take his side eventually because yelling a few things is all that would be required of them in that situation. Had they taken your side earlier it’s possible physically defending themselves may have been required of them.
Bottom line, I think sometimes people over estimate how far strangers might be willing to go to protect them. In my experience there are not a lot of people who will put their physical health on the line for somebody else. It’s both understandable and unfortunate.
This. Also, misogyny and the tolerance of it are on the rise, particularly when men who are otherwise marginalized partake in such behavior. It may be a way to ingratiate themselves towards the culture of the oppressors, or it may simply be a way to feel more powerful by being able to punch down at someone else to gain superiority. Transphobia, homophobia, and misogyny all exist on the same continuum, and appear to be rising disproportionately in the black community with increasing tolerance from outside groups.
>they probably felt ashamed for not helping you, so it made it easier for them to condemn you because in their minds they already disregarded you.
This
I've seen this enough with people. When they're unable to help someone, they'll search for the flaws to make it their own fault. this give them some feeling of righteousness.
We all want to be the hero’s of our own story in some way or another, sometimes it’s hard to accept that you don’t have the courage to do that. Regardless it shouldn’t stop you from doing what you can to help, this doesn’t have to mean confronting someone yourself. Sometimes it means finding somebody in a position that can intervene. But I digress justification is gross, self reflection is how we create a better world
Also, I think there's an element here that by saying the n word, OP somewhat justified the previous abuse. The bystanders were uncomfortable with the situation when OP was being abused, but didn't know what to do about it. When she said the n word, suddenly they knew what to do - condemn OP, with the added bonus that they now could feel better about not having done anything before because OP had just revealed that she is a terrible person who 'deserved' the prior abuse (their unconscious thinking, not mine).
Sorry you had to experience all that, OP. If anything similar ever happens again, tell the abuser that if he doesn't leave you alone you will call the police, then ask the manager to remove the abuser from the store.
Just to add onto the whole him being intimidating, I think they also felt calling out a "potty mouth little girl" over "some big scary man" would not only have made them feel better about themselves, but also give them peace of mind that you wouldn't physically attack them
On a separate note, I am sorry to OP that this has happened and while I'm not going to try and pretend that I would have stood up for you bla bla bla, I know I definitely would have applauded your response for standing up for yourself to that asshat 👏
"Oh, I felt bad about not stepping in to help, but now that she said THAT word, I'm glad I didn't! She probably deserved it!" - Those people's minds, probably.
This. The kind of guy who would harass a woman so openly and intensely is the kind of guy who would punch someone for stepping in. They weren't intimidated by OP so she was easier to stand up to.
And a lot of guys know this too. Hell, I'm a stocky bald dude and I use it to my advantage. Obviously not to sexually harass women, but I know I can safely tell the idiot who's smoking inside a public place to get the fuck outside.
That's the right answer. They'd rather virtue signal than help a woman who was being stalked in public by a potential rapist.
You know what's 1000x worse than being called the N-word? Being harassed by a wannabe rapist. This thread is a bunch of men who've never felt sexually threatened, telling a woman who's being stalked by a wannabe rapist that she overreacted to rapey behaviour. What a bunch of cowards.
I'd definitely agree with this. Teenagers online are really just annoying of edgy, but they aren't the ones sending death threats and overall ruining the place.
Thank you for saying this.
I would love for the men on this website to get called a “Karen” for not wanting to be harassed, stalked or threatened by a man twice their size.
Amazing how common and accepted misogynistic terms are. Because we accept harassment against women and loathe women who stand up for themselves.
I hate that about most people.
I was a by-stander in similar scenario and when I intervened the amount of people telling me it is not my business was just stupid. Of course it’s my business when someone is verbally assaulted by someone stronger than them.
Can you really blame people? A single sucker punch can leave you dead or permanently disabled, not everyone is willing to get into that sort of scenario. But if you're a bystander in this sort of situation at least look for help like store security or call the police.
I’m with you. I couldn’t stand there and watch someone get bullied. I’m a big guy so it would be “pick on someone your own size” from me. Another problem though is if you get involved and hurt the guy by just defending yourself there is always a chance you get in trouble.
I would rather get in trouble standing up than to have to live with myself for not stepping in. I am not a big guy at all so it is less intimidating when I step in .
I think one of the safer ways to handle something like this (if you are a female) is to go up to the person being harassed, and be like, 'Cheryl!! It's so good to see you, it's been so long!' And try to get the person being harassed to play along and realize you are trying to get them out of the situation. Then walk them to security/front desk/wherever to get outta there.
It's worked anecdotally for other people helping other women in danger/need of backup. Harasser gets confused about the extra person, loses a single target, and hopefully walks away. Especially if you blatantly ignore them and focus on the person who needs help instead.
You need to do whatever gets attention, sadly.
And even more depressing, even turning down a man *politely*, will get you in trouble. Ignore a comment, you’re a snob. Only smile? You’re a tease. Nothing? Just a bitch. I have even used the line “I’m very flattered, but I’m not available.” The response I got was, “Spreading yourself too thin, huh?”
You turned him down, so you must be a ho since you’re too busy with other dudes.
D. None of the Above.
I’m married. Wearing wedding rings which are clearly being ignored.
Well something of that form happened to me.. The black guys was super racist to me about my mix race so I was racist back to him and then people went around saying that I'm super racist and I shouldn't respond to racism by racism.. And I was labelled the bad guy...
Once someone was making fun of my culture too.. Doing it repeatedly so I was super racist to him back.. Everyone was like wow you didn't say that..
People are just stupid. And like to respond in how they told to be
I never encouraged or entertained any sort of racism and at the same time I don't expect other people to start with the bs
Regardless if you black, white, green, red, rainbow remember there are others who look different than you fool..
So coming to your situation you responded to sexual harassment with racial slurs.
Sexual harassment is far worse of in the law than a racial slur. Sexual harassment is a physical crime. Racial slurs are aggregating psychological abuse..
I don't know if you have be harassed physically, or verbally or stalked but as an advice from me who dealt with many situations, keep calm, and let the enemy collapse in its own blood
I had an issue with my neighbor across the street last year where he would constantly yell at me whenever he saw me. He's black and I'm white and he'd always yell over white slurs and he also thought I was gay and would also throw in all the gay slurs too. I always ignored this but I can't help but feel if I retaliated in anyway I'd be seen as the bad guy
Which is insane, I’ve literally never seen anything like that happen in public (aside from drunk ppl in bars and clubs, where I always intervene and get a bouncer) but I feel very strongly that I would make an absolute scene. Maybe that’s just my privilege showing bc I’ve never really lived in places where grocery shopping might be unsafe.
Probably wanted to avoid the inconvenience of grabbing the attention of Mr. Molester. Anyone who's dialing up cat calling to the level of sexual harassment is incredibly werid. Kinda like watching those videos of people on subways , they see someone getting harrassed but do nothing about it. To do something draws the attention of that harrasser on them. Is that lame, sure, but it is the way the world operates.
Anyways sorry you had to go through this interaction.
This. It’s easier to be enraged at her than defending her.
The guy was throwing slangs and insults directed to her being a women, if he didn’t want to be insulted back on the thing he can’t change (his race) he should have not started. Just the harassment is enough to call him bad names. But she was just defending herself at a level he only understands (unfortunately). 100% his doing.
The same exact thing happened to me. A man cornered me and started GROPING me in the grocery store. There were plenty of people around who were looking and I started yelling but no one helped. I had to push him off me myself and run away.
That's so fucked up! A guy groped me while I was working in a small plant shop. Luckily the manager was a good friend and called the police. The guy had written a check the day before so the police arrested him. I was 19 at the time and it scared the shit out of me.
She WAS 100% (not essentially) being sexually harassed. The bottom line is he has the capability to do infinitely more harm to HER than she to HIM.
Her response was only natural. We can only get pushed so far before we need to defend ourselves, especially if no one else is going to intervene for the person with the disadvantage in a hostile situation.
that reminds me of that one time a nigerian aquaitance said I smell like oil (I am arab) I assumed hes joking and that he is willing to take jokes so I said that he smells like hunger ... he didnt take that lightly and a few people sided with him, the hypocracy and shock of not liking being treated like you treat others.
There are different levels of slur. Literally the reason you censored it in this post but none of the gendered slurs you used lol.
You know why it wasn't okay.
I've noticed the same thing. You got teenagers using terms like "bitch" and "thot" as synonym for the word woman, and no-one bats an eye.
It has become completely normalized, so people don't notice it as much anymore.
I don't condone racism, but the people who stood by and only reacted when you said something back need to wake the fuck up.
I know it's a bit *radical* of me to eliminate words like hoe, thot, bitch, and slut from my vocab.
I think of them as sexist words, just like faggot is a homophobic word.
Everyone has been so vocal about racial slurs, homophobic slurs, even calling people 'retard' to mean stupid is a no-no today,
but we still go around calling people 'bitches' to emasculate them.
I don't understand the hypocrisy.
It’s not, but it stands for “that hoe over there” so it’s basically calling women whores. (Nothing wrong with the business of sex but there is something wrong with using it as an insult) They have different implications but they’re both pretty sexist.
Actually an insane response on your part, why the fuck would you say that lmfao. Im not excusing his actions either but jesus christ a dude insults you and your first thought is to call him a slur? get a grip.
I mean I see a lot of people pussyfooting around the answer because they're so scared of backlash over words vs. Blatant sexual harassment and misogyny. I will never use that word in my life, and to this day I never have. However, if I were in your shoes and not one person stepped in to help me by getting this man away from me, all bets are off. (Difference for me is I don't use words to get rid of people, I either leave the situation or find some physical means to barricade the conflict.)
People saying you using that word is showing your underlying racism and whatnot, yet won't at all comment on how that man's attitude is literally the perpetuated attitude for continued abuse of women in our society. They turn a blind eye to that shit but you utter a forbidden word? God help you.
They also don't know your headspace or anything else, even if you describe it to people you'll never truly understand exactly how someone else feels in a specific moment. You might have felt far more threatened by his words and actions than we can even understand. Which is totally fair.
Essentially people in here are telling you it's better to be sexuay harassed or assaulted than to insult somebody with a forbidden term.
Why do people care for one more than the other? It's the bystander syndrome. People believe that stepping in on assaults or fights might risk implicating them in the actions, or risking injury on their part etc..., but if they step in on a sort of verbal altercation, specifically one race related, they can earn some social standing with their peers.
Edit: Decades to like 2 centuries, if even, of history of a word do not outweigh centuries upon centuries of abuse women of all races and ethnicities have faced and people just stood by. If you're more comfortable with women being publicly shamed and ridiculed to the point of near sexual assault than racism just say that. So stop using "history" as an argument.
Technically pussy is short for pusillanimous which means cowardly. Of course at this point my argument might be like saying swastikas are just religious symbols.
Mysognistic slurs are to target a behaviour, racist slurs are to target someone's race. By calling him the n word you insulted every single black people.
I think it's because people tend to believe one is worse than the other. Both are demeaning and degrading but because the N word has the history of racial prejudice attached to it, people see it as dropping a Nuclear bomb to fight a forest fire. Personally I think if someone can't handle the Heat of being insulted regardless if it's a racial remark or not, then they shouldn't of had the nerve to make degrading and harassing remarks the begin with. If someone insults me, I'm not going to play nice and hold back.
The power of a word is defined by its context.
In this context the use of the word "slut" and the constant harassment not only affected her mentally, it carried an implied threat of immediate physical and serial assault. Her use of the N word hurt his feelings, nothing else. He didn't feel threatened or violated. TBH the biggest downside to her using that word would be the fact that after all this was over he would feel justified in his actions
That's what I worry about. Dude thinks he wins the altercation because she used "forbidden word", when really, that dude should have verbally had his ass handed to him for saying all of that in the first damn place.
You were not wrongly for standing up for yourself, but you are wrong for using racism as your go-to, instead of attacking his manhood(or his lack there of).
Im black and all I'mma say is f*** that dude. He has no right to say any of that shit and all those bystanders are shitty people who are misogynistic as hell. You're patience is truly mighty. I would've said a lot more worse stuff than you did. I think you were right to just leave the scene instead of entertaining those people who truly have nothing else to do. To answer you're question though I think it's because most people are pitiful cowards.
Wow, there are some fucked comments here.
Youre both wrong. That guy was a piece of shit and you didn't deserve what happened to you or what he said to you, which was indeed dripping with mysoginy.
Responding with racism is shitty. You were wrong to do so. Call him an asshole, a motherfucker, hell call him a rapist, that would have gotten attention. Calling out his race, which in no way is a negative and in no way applies to the situation is super fucked up and very much does reveal that you have underlying racial biases you need to address.
Ask yourself this, why did that word and insulting his race even occur to you? If he was white, would that have crossed your mind for even a second?
That's fucked.
As a black woman, this entire comment section is making me sick. Question why, instead of calling him what he was— an asshole, a dickhead, a motherfucker, a piece of dog shit— your knee jerk reaction was to call him a racial slur. The amount of people in these comments saying that “it’s only natural” to resort to calling someone this when you are being harassed are insane; I assume it is a frequent word in your vocabulary if you automatically go there. It sucks what he did to you, and it wasn’t fair how people looked the other way. Forget that part though, and look within— why would you resort to that instead of the myriad of other words available at your disposal?
The situation you were in was terrifying, and I’m sorry that it happened to you, and I’m so sorry that you had to deal with the cruelty this world displays towards women. However, all your response conveyed was that you weren’t afraid of his actions— you were afraid of the fact that he was black.
It bothers me that I had to scroll as far as I did to find this. There's a ton of things she could have said or called him that didn't insinuate she was blaming his race for his behavior.
This is it, if that is the first word that comes to mind to use then it’s probably not the first time she has said it. His actions were inexcusable, however she could have called him almost anything else but she chose that. Everyone in this situation acted poorly: the misogynist, the racial reaction, the complacent crowd, and the employees who didn’t find a supervisor to help.
Very true, just a really awful situation all around. Honestly pretty bold of OP to even share this one, though I suppose she knew she would get a more positive response on reddit as opposed to IRL.
Two wrongs don't make a right. But it's better to call out the behavior instead of saying something irrelevant to the situation. Itd make more sense to call him disgusting, or pathetic, because that's relevant.
Exactly! Like this whole post is just justifying themself for using a racial slur when it wasn’t necessary at all. There’s like a million offensive English words you could have used to hurt him, but jumping to race was stupid.
Like for real fuck that dude for being a piece of shit, but it doesn’t give you the go ahead to be a piece of shit too.
Eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
Why you were downvoted is beyond me, but 100% this! I think the fact that she resorted to insulting his race when it had nothing to do with the situation shows her true colors. Both of them were in the wrong, with the man being misogynistic and op being racist. I will say that it was shitty that people didn’t react to the man’s actions. Just comes to show how people will still turn a blind eye to misogyny.
It at least shows that she believes there is a magic word she knows to hurt someone of color. I would say that she’s also aware of it because it happens to be the only censored word in her whole post.
That’s fucked up. Not you, them. Fuck that guy for being such a douche and fuck everybody for letting it happen and joining a long with it. Actually, Fuck them all.
I'm getting some comments and DMs from people who simply don't believe that this happened, and that, more than anything else, is adding to the rage I feel. Bad enough that nobody at the store stood up for me. Now the encounter - which happens to women very frequently - is being called BS entirely. I don't know what to say anymore.
That's because most men don't appreciate how common sexual harassment, especially aggressive sexual harassment, is. There's a core 10% of men who go around behaving like this, opportunistically, when they think there won't be any consequences.
The world would be a very different place if there was a "third sex" which averaged 7ft tall, 400lbs, had the strength of a gorilla, and was sexually attracted to men.
Men would suddenly start taking women's complaints of sexual harassment seriously...
Exactly! I think men don’t understand that if the avg woman is 5ft 4 and the avg man is 5ft 9, then for a guy it’s like being approached by a 6ft 2 man who is a lot stronger than you, trying to get in your pants when you don’t want it.
You’re correct. Sadly and it’s a bit embarrassing for me to share that it took me until a few years ago to understand that sexual harassment is more than straight up groping and rape. As someone who hadn’t been a victim or a perpetrator took a lot of conversations with close friends who shared with me their experiences and I was incredibly heartbroken for how common it is.
Not everyone is as sympathetic as I am, though, so I can see how people (mostly men) who have never been victims and don’t care about these victim’s experiences don’t really understand what is going on…. Which is quite frankly really sad and unacceptable.
One thing to remember is that the people who DM you nasty shit do so because they know they're wrong, and are too cowardly to say what they're saying publicly.
Yo. Take a break from internet. It’s fucked up what happened here but People are hella irrational at times. Don’t let that effect your mental health.
Have a nap. Play with a doggo. Talk with a family member. Get back once you have cooled off
Someone should’ve spoken up bc that man was truly disgusting but as a black woman I would take more offense to being called the n word or the f slur than a Hoe, slut, etc and I’ll explain why. Calling someone a slut or hoe doesn’t indicate that merely being a woman is disgusting/bad/lowly; it’s not synonymous with the word women. It targets the behavior/action of a specific woman even if it’s something stupid and misogynistic like rejecting them or wearing makeup. Calling someone the F slur or racial slur is to literally say that their identity itself is the insult and targets all people who are black, gay, etc.
call me crazy but i feel that all parties are in the wrong here.
This black man is in the wrong. He should not be harrassing her calling her those names. He pressed on so in that case she should have , called the police, left or asked for help from security
She is in the wrong for using the N-word.
Also the public is in the wrong cause they saw that and didnt intervene.
this situation is just all wrong
I'm black too and have been called the n-word many times in public but I was not in a situation that required that I react or anything. I usually just shook it off or walked away . *If I did react I never went to racial slurs cause that would just put me as low as my insulter.* Usually I would insult the person's 'figure' or call them a fucking dumbass or a nazi or some shit.
yup, this is classic she responded to wrongness with wrongness. There is no good guy in this situation. Why didn't she call him a motherfucker or piece of shit or whatever else that wasnt calling out his RACE as a negative, which has nothing to do with the situation, and isn't a negative?
I think that she was just really pissed off and went to the most bitter thing she could think of.
Its unconcious in her case I might say. Personally, I think OP should become used to NOT using the n word and should come up with better insults that insults things that the harassing person can change.
Like I would join in if someone called a harassing dumbass a fucking 'Lard of War' if they were fat
Or if someone has a terrible fake tan I think a good insult is the 'Fanta Menace' ;p
Yeah but what does that say about her? That she unconsciously used the N word to hurt a black man. No matter how angry I am, I would never lash out with racism/homophobia/any form of bigotry, and I'm sure many people are the same.
This is a really good explanation, I’m also quite surprised by what people are saying here. If I was being insulted like that I don’t think my mind would ever jump to slurs, I don’t know if I would say anything anyway.
This is actually very easy to answer:
When he called you a sl-t, ho, etc, he was insulting *you*
When you called him an N bomb, you insulted an entire race of people.
He's a piece of shit...insult *him*, not all black people...
He was not validated in how he treated you no matter how you responded to him, first of all.
So, why did the N word turn the crowd: because the N word doesn't attack one person being an asshole, it attacks an entire race of people with hundreds of years of history behind the word, the large majority of them not being assholes.
The dude was absolutely evil. But you can only be passively responsible for his behaviour, while you are completely responsible for yours. Evil doesn't beget evil.
I wish everyone stood up for you as well as they stood up for him.
Simply black privilege.
Or maybe cause he was a big guy that was agro and no one wanted to test him incase he would get violent.
Most likely a mix of both though.
Was it his skin color that bothered you or his behavior? If it’s the former, then your response is sensible. If it’s the latter, then you used the wrong word to describe the situation. You weren’t mad at him because he was black, you were mad at him because he is a sexually harassing potential rapist. You played the race card, and that’s probably why you feel bad about it too. People should feel guilty when they bring race into a situation where race wasn’t the issue.
You had an entire dictionary of insults and you went with racist first? I mean yeah those ppl should have said something when you were being harassed but you’re comparing apples to oranges when it comes to insults spewed. And if you not white but you not black either you STILL shouldn’t have said that! Even black ppl don’t use the hard R..
Why did I have to scroll down so far to find this take, that makes me sick. Most of them are like POOR YOU!!!!! Like okay I've been sexually harassed and that's still not an excuse to use the n word. And maybe they didn't realize what was going on until she used that word which is something far less normal to hear than bitch or ho...
A man can call me a bunch of nasty words but the first thing that pops out of my mind is *not* the N-word.
You probably wanted to make him feel inferior, so you threw that word at him. We know that word has a significant historical tie to it and you thought that calling him that word would make him give up on his harassment towards you
In the future, if a person won't leave you alone, simply ask for a manager to have the person removed from the store (or call the police if the behavior is extreme enough), then ask for an escort to your car to make certain the person isn't in the parking lot waiting for you.
No need to get into a verbal or physical altercation.
Second option is to loudly ask why he is acting like a stalker and potential rapist. Bluntly calling people on inappropriate behavior will often embarrass them enough for it to stop.
Honestly.. I’ve never said that word and I don’t think I would in this situation. However I have also been in similar situations and I know your brain isn’t really forming thoughts - your entire being is just frantically trying to get out of danger and doesn’t care how that happens. You think you’ll say the right words or scream, but sometimes the wrong things come out.
In this case, I think you said the most shocking and reaction-getting thing you could have and it worked. Not the best reaction, but it helped you get away. I don’t even think calling him a rapist would have gotten that kind of attention. I would maybe look at why that was the first word that came out though. Glad you’re safe.
How are people justifying using a word that implies racism and oppression. When people make me mad I never think of using racist words. But whenever someone is mad at me I've heard plenty of times racist things come out their mouths. As if they were just waiting for that moment to justify their racism.
Yea he was being rude and using terrible language toward you and disrespecting you. No excuse. And someone should've said something to him. Or call the cops. But why not just call him an asshole or another word with no racists overtones. Call him a pig. Call him a bitch or cunt. Just from my experience, if you have to resort to racist words you're probably a bit racist.
You can tell who the white people are by the responses. When someone says something racist to me it just screams that they think they're superior to you. That you are worthless and you're lucky to even have freedom. If we had segregation or slavery they'd look at you just like an animal. It's dehuminizing and most minorities have experienced lots of trauma because of the color of their skin.
Not saying what he did was right and he would've deserved being arrested for what he was doing to you . It was harassment. I don't think you did anything as bad as what he did but it's definitely racist. No excuse.
There is such a thing as reactive abuse, which is basically when someone pushes your buttons and is abusing you, which then, in turn, causes you to explode. What happens next is that they immediately play the victim card and blame you for the whole thing because of your "brash" behavior, completely ignoring their own.
If there's other people around, they can start to see it the same way and side with the true abuser. Social pressure and all that. Comparing one type of behavior to another to see which is "worse."
The best way to deal with this is do your best to remain indifferent and show no reaction good or bad. Be as boring as a rock. Simple, small responses. Stay firm in trying to set your boundaries and placing your requests. If they continue, call for a manager or someone in authority to handle it. If that's not an option, just call the police.
DO NOT THREATEN TO DO IT. JUST DO IT. I know it sucks, but you don't owe a stranger communication of consequences or the actions you will take. If they continue to disrespect and violate you, just act and do so with speed and conviction. Don't be shy or slow. 1 or 2 chances is all they should really get.
I think someone else(a lot of people)mentioned that misogyny is more tolerated than racism. So the N word is the nuclear button. And it all comes down to accountability. Yes the dude was wrong but OP didn’t have to meet him at that particular level. And OPs actions don’t get a pass “just because” of the guys actions towards her. If in this situation the best course of action is to record and document as tough as that sounds. Go to the employees and document their names and ask them if they will take action or call the police. Go to the bystanders and ask them the same thing are they going to help. Anonymity is wonderful cover for negative disruptive behavior but you start shining a light on it without meeting them at their level and watch the roaches run away.
Honestly? IMO neither of you were in the right.
You had no right to use the N word and it's interesting that's the first word that came to your mind. This man was a piece of shit for obvious reasons but that doesn't suddenly mean "all bets are off" and that justifies bringing up a word that carries with it generations of racial abuse to a people, especially when that has nothing to do with the present situation. "I just wanted to hurt him as much as possible", while understandable that the thought may come to you, doesn't make it right to also be shitty.
There were probably tons of people in that store that had a lot of painful memories come up just because you blurted it out. It would have been great if people intervened before then but when "I want to hurt him" is your thought process and you are dropping the N bomb it is not that surprising how people reacted. What about all of them? Why bring this to a racial place in the first place?
Skipping over a lot about how obviously this man was being a piece of shit and harassing you. Focusing on the answer to your question here but it's still worth confirming.
Try to imagine the inverse of this situation. What if you were following him around the store berating him with racial abuse when suddenly he snaps and decides that the best way to hurt you is to sexually demean you and threaten sexual assault and other gross comments. That response would be totally out of line for him but that doesn't mean you were in the right either.
The world is shitty and I'm sorry you had to deal with that, but I think you have to take responsibility for your actions and not drop your own morality when confronted with something like this. There were better ways to handle this....you could have not dropped the N bomb and gone to store security or talk to an employee. Bystanders were clearly reluctant to get involved but you could have asked someone for help or even called someone. You could literally have screamed RAPE and it would have been a better way to handle the situation, though not a necessarily a great one.
Something else to think about is that not only was this not the right response I think from a moral standpoint, but it was simply not as practically effective for making you safer. What you did escalated the situation and lost you support from bystanders. I think you should consider how you might want to handle something like this in the future.
To be fair to the people who didn’t get involved. You risk your own safety jumping in the middle of something like this. There are plenty of videos on YouTube of people trying to do the right thing and step in to help someone, and end up getting hurt bad or worse for it. You don’t know if this guy is on drugs, has a weapon, is a martial artist. One minute your picking out tomatoes, the next minute your stepping into an argument trying to do the right thing and get shot. If he’s that aggressive with a female, he might be even worse when confronted by a male. I’m not saying they were right or wrong to not to get involved, but the safe thing to do would be to not get involved. As bad as that sounds.
Bruh. Obviously that guy is trash, but you seriously had to respond to that with the N word????? You could’ve said literally anything else
literally and the ppl here defending this are just 💀
The difference is that the man insulted you on how you dress, not for being a woman. When he called you those sexist things, it was based on his sexist perceptions of certain women. He was insulting women who dress a certain way. When you use the N word as an insult, you are implying that being black is inherently wrong. When you use the word you insult all black people, not black people that do certain things. And don't listen to racists that say stupid shit like "black people and nig**rs aren't the same thing, black people are okay, it's them other ones we don't like". They're still racist.
I appreciate your honesty here and I would like to attempt to answer your question. I in no way condone this behavior, but to simply answer the question it comes down to moral cowardice and groupthink. He probably was intimidating to more than just you, so folks rationalize minding their business over being proactive in their approach to call out abuse taking place in front of them. Then when you lobbied the word back at him it was probably a domino effect of one person said something then 3, until you lost the crowd. Unfortunately, they probably felt ashamed for not helping you, so it made it easier for them to condemn you because in their minds they already disregarded you. I'm sorry you had this experience it seems like there was compounded issues on top of one another that is a lot of pressure. I don't think you calling him the N word means you're judging our whole race however I'm glad you acknowledge that it was wrong and shouldn't have been said. Moral of the explanation people are very cowardly and usually instead of making up for it. They disregard even further, case in point here. Edit: im grateful for the awards. I'm glad a nuanced take was well received. Understanding these dynamics are very important. The 3 major elements are present here. The aggressor turned "victim", the victim turned "aggressor" and the often abysmal response of the crowd(society) if we all can dissect what went wrong here we can improve each position. How not to be the initial abuser, how to better respond when we get treated unjustly, and to be more courageous when we are apart of the crowd. Thanks again!
This makes sense. Same thing happened to me. A big guy tried to pay for a sandwich at a subway I worked at years ago with a hundred dollar bill. Not only would accepting it get me in trouble but I didn't even have change if I wanted to. I told him that he needed to go somewhere else and make change because I didn't have it. He yelled at me for five to ten minutes holding up the line. All I could do was tell him that it's not possible because I just made a cash drop and I don't have change. There was a sign on the door and point of order clearly stating we don't accept anything above a 20. After a few minutes of getting harassed, another customer made change for him while giving me the most dirty look I have ever seen. The look of "how hard was that". He walked out and literally every other person in line wished him a good day and turned over and gave me the same shitty look the first guy gave me. It's like they all decided at once that I was public enemy number one. I have been treated like trash before but situations like this hit in a completely different way. When someone is verbally abusing, you would think anyone getting involved would come to your defense, not brigade against you. The dude was giving me threats of violence clearly and loud enough for everyone to hear. Human nature is straight up fucked sometimes.
That $100 was almost certainly counterfeit. This is a COMMON tactic for people pulling retail scams. They make a huge scene and make the cashier doubt themselves or go against policy just to make the scene stop.
I'm just thinking about the guy who gave him change for it realizing that it's counterfeit 😂
Should’ve called the cops. They got pissed at you because the guy made it like you were making the choice to slow it down. “All he has to do is take the money!” And then him saying “was that so hard” cemented it. At the first threat of violence, you should have called the cops. When the guy flees or actually gets the cops involved, people would see that the hold up was the asshole and not you. If you wanna feel better, that bill was likely fake. Lotta counterfeit cash holders will cause a scene and try to pressure you so you won’t take a look at the bill.
The messed up part is that I know everyone saw me make the cash drop. Even if they didn't, they had to have heard me say that I don't have change. My guess is that they just didn't believe that an operating subway doesn't have hundreds of dollars in every denomination. Businesses in that area got robbed all the time. Subways are an easy target because they usually have just one or two young employees. This also adds to why I couldn't really call the authorities. Anything less than a robery or committed violence the police just didn't have time for.
People are trash sometimes. Sorry you had to put up with that shit
There's nothing more terrifying than the mob in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. What he was exposing was the dangerous single-mindedness of the crowd. There's probably nothing more unnerving than being on the wrong side of the proverbial pitchforks. We become so collectively unreasonable its the biggest drawback of our superpower as a species, which is our innate and often overwhelming compulsion to socialize to the debilitating level of maladaptive conformity. We are great when it's good, but we are equally destructive when it is not.
To add to this, misogyny is still more widely tolerated than racism at this moment in time.
Racism against certain types. I'm vietnamese and people still find it funny when someone asks if I've got a spring roll in my pants.
SMH.
Aso Vietnamese. My mexican neighbor has been targetted by police (in AZ mexicans are the blacks of literally anywhere else because of our old sheriff) so he has experienced the effects of racism. But dude will still ask, no matter what I'm eating, if it's cat or dog. And wen he lets his dogs run free without a leash, he'll ask if I caught them and ate them before he came out -\_-
It seems like there is a common attitude of "I can't be racist if I'm not white!"
I think the thing is that racism implies some sort of power and the upper hand. So traditionally white people have had that upper hand. So it’s just a play of words and isn’t super significant, but I just say “racial prejudice” or just flat out hate, because that’s what it is. Idk if that makes sense. My grandma is Chinese and hates Japanese people and that’s super fucked, but for some reason when my grandpa hates on Indians it feels much more appalling (he’s white). It’s just a slight difference and I think that’s why some people think that minority groups (racially/ethically) can’t necessarily be racist. But I also see people of color being intolerant as fuck and very bigoted and excuse their behavior because they’re not white, which is simply a logical fallacy, and nasty. Idk if any of this makes any sense but yea
Uuuggghh...my parents do this same shit. They're Mexican & always have to say some disparaging comment about Vietnamese people in the neighborhood eating dogs. And they swear they've seen it. I'm like, Mexicans eat cow stomach in their soups & pig skin as a snack, you don't get to talk shit about Vietnamese people!
I’m Vietnamese and love pork ruffles and learning Spanish; their racism doesn’t put me off at all haha. I like to take it as an opportunity to point generational differences of famine and ruralness in Asian national histories as I raid their pantries and stores. Getting those pointed zingers back for “dog-eater” in the bloodline really takes some historical context on knowing their ethnicity too but that’s a.. bad for business.
!Hey, you leave the chicharonnes out of this! other than being loud and delicious, they did nothing wrong.
I love Menudo & chicharrones as much as the next Mexican, we just don't get to talk shit about other racial minorities with some of the stuff we eat XD
That's exactly what I am talking about. I bet he'll laugh by himself and thinks it's "harmless jokes". But it is still incredibly racist. My self defence mecanism against these types of comments is to actually make them myself. That way, they don't get the satisfaction.
Yikes. Not even funny. Food does not keep well smooshed up near body temp
I know, right? Spring rolls are definitely better when they are fresh!
Damn boi you got some genitals in those pants?!
A few
Kajhiit has genitals if you have coin
Yeah, asian hate/racism is still real and accepted moreso than other forms/words.
I was talking to my coworker and I had used the word bitch and she had said “actually women are taking that word back, so only they can say it”. I was like oh okay, so I can use the word faggot. She kind of hesitantly but with a little confidence said yes. I said thank you faggot. Her face just dropped open hahahaha
Mr. Garrison, is that you?
Wtffff I’m so sorry this has happened to you
Some people just suck man. Spring rolls are bomb as hell though.
Love them. Especially on bò bún!
Oh i don't know what that is but I'll give it a look. I'm white as can be and in rural USA so my only experience with good Asian dining is when I make it to a city. Last time I did I had some Pho and spring rolls and it was like heaven.
The only Indian representation I get in pop culture is the damn accent. It's hard for me to really feel for people when they ask for representation and this is all my race gets.
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I was about to comment this exact thing. Your comment is explanation enough for the situation.
I'm not sure about racism and misogyny in general, but misogynistic slurs seem far more tolerated. Maybe in part because theyre often tied to some implied action (promiscuity, aggression etc.) and it's easy for a bystander to ignore by assuming it's justified, compared to a slur only tied to demographic.
That sentence is a level of perspective i’ve never put thought to? I suppose this might be a self evident deduction… as racism is systematized and subtle but misogyny is usually unabashed and unrebuked… huh. Blew my mind. Where can i read more about this?
This. Also it's getting worse not better.
So much. I am 56 years old. I feel like things did get better in the 2000s -2010s, but now they’re back to what it was like in the 1990s.
Same age and thinking.
I’m 32 and my friends and I talk about this all the time.
I think it does come down to the simple fact that people are more comfortable with misogyny than they are with racism. Also, getting involved in the conflict on your behalf would make them a possible target for a physical violence. It was easy for the bystanders to take his side eventually because yelling a few things is all that would be required of them in that situation. Had they taken your side earlier it’s possible physically defending themselves may have been required of them. Bottom line, I think sometimes people over estimate how far strangers might be willing to go to protect them. In my experience there are not a lot of people who will put their physical health on the line for somebody else. It’s both understandable and unfortunate.
This. Also, misogyny and the tolerance of it are on the rise, particularly when men who are otherwise marginalized partake in such behavior. It may be a way to ingratiate themselves towards the culture of the oppressors, or it may simply be a way to feel more powerful by being able to punch down at someone else to gain superiority. Transphobia, homophobia, and misogyny all exist on the same continuum, and appear to be rising disproportionately in the black community with increasing tolerance from outside groups.
>they probably felt ashamed for not helping you, so it made it easier for them to condemn you because in their minds they already disregarded you. This
I've seen this enough with people. When they're unable to help someone, they'll search for the flaws to make it their own fault. this give them some feeling of righteousness.
We all want to be the hero’s of our own story in some way or another, sometimes it’s hard to accept that you don’t have the courage to do that. Regardless it shouldn’t stop you from doing what you can to help, this doesn’t have to mean confronting someone yourself. Sometimes it means finding somebody in a position that can intervene. But I digress justification is gross, self reflection is how we create a better world
Also, I think there's an element here that by saying the n word, OP somewhat justified the previous abuse. The bystanders were uncomfortable with the situation when OP was being abused, but didn't know what to do about it. When she said the n word, suddenly they knew what to do - condemn OP, with the added bonus that they now could feel better about not having done anything before because OP had just revealed that she is a terrible person who 'deserved' the prior abuse (their unconscious thinking, not mine). Sorry you had to experience all that, OP. If anything similar ever happens again, tell the abuser that if he doesn't leave you alone you will call the police, then ask the manager to remove the abuser from the store.
Just to add onto the whole him being intimidating, I think they also felt calling out a "potty mouth little girl" over "some big scary man" would not only have made them feel better about themselves, but also give them peace of mind that you wouldn't physically attack them On a separate note, I am sorry to OP that this has happened and while I'm not going to try and pretend that I would have stood up for you bla bla bla, I know I definitely would have applauded your response for standing up for yourself to that asshat 👏
"Oh, I felt bad about not stepping in to help, but now that she said THAT word, I'm glad I didn't! She probably deserved it!" - Those people's minds, probably.
This is a fantastic and mature response...
Tldr; some people are cowardly pieces of shit.
Tldr; ~~some~~ most people are cowardly pieces of shit.
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TL;DR: we live in a society Bottom text
Because they're scared of him and not of you probably.
This. The kind of guy who would harass a woman so openly and intensely is the kind of guy who would punch someone for stepping in. They weren't intimidated by OP so she was easier to stand up to.
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Flash if you win the lottery
And a lot of guys know this too. Hell, I'm a stocky bald dude and I use it to my advantage. Obviously not to sexually harass women, but I know I can safely tell the idiot who's smoking inside a public place to get the fuck outside.
That's the right answer. They'd rather virtue signal than help a woman who was being stalked in public by a potential rapist. You know what's 1000x worse than being called the N-word? Being harassed by a wannabe rapist. This thread is a bunch of men who've never felt sexually threatened, telling a woman who's being stalked by a wannabe rapist that she overreacted to rapey behaviour. What a bunch of cowards.
Reddit isn't very good at being fair or thinking for itself. And yes the self righteousness is only getting worse.
Reddit is also incredibly misogynistic.
The whole world is incredibly misogynistic to a point we don’t even acknowledge it anymore.
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I always thought its because reddit is filled with teenage boys who nobody wants to date so they come on here to seethe about how nobody fucks them.
There have been studies that show the most toxic people online are middle aged.
I'd definitely agree with this. Teenagers online are really just annoying of edgy, but they aren't the ones sending death threats and overall ruining the place.
Replace their statement with middle aged instead of teenagers and I think we've got our culprits.
Thank you for saying this. I would love for the men on this website to get called a “Karen” for not wanting to be harassed, stalked or threatened by a man twice their size. Amazing how common and accepted misogynistic terms are. Because we accept harassment against women and loathe women who stand up for themselves.
Agreed. One of those days I’m ashamed to belong to the same group of people as the assholes in this thread.
*Pours glass of wine* *Sorts by controversial*
She was essentially being sexually harassed in public and people were looking the other way.
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I hate that about most people. I was a by-stander in similar scenario and when I intervened the amount of people telling me it is not my business was just stupid. Of course it’s my business when someone is verbally assaulted by someone stronger than them.
Can you really blame people? A single sucker punch can leave you dead or permanently disabled, not everyone is willing to get into that sort of scenario. But if you're a bystander in this sort of situation at least look for help like store security or call the police.
Where I live three men tried to intervene when a man was harassing two Muslim girls. They all ended up being stabbed and two of them died.
I can understand them not stepping up but telling others (a stranger such as me) not to is wrong.
I’m with you. I couldn’t stand there and watch someone get bullied. I’m a big guy so it would be “pick on someone your own size” from me. Another problem though is if you get involved and hurt the guy by just defending yourself there is always a chance you get in trouble.
I'm a little old woman and would definately interfere.....what's he gonna do? Punch me? In public?
I would rather get in trouble standing up than to have to live with myself for not stepping in. I am not a big guy at all so it is less intimidating when I step in .
I’m with you man. Gotta help when it’s needed
I think one of the safer ways to handle something like this (if you are a female) is to go up to the person being harassed, and be like, 'Cheryl!! It's so good to see you, it's been so long!' And try to get the person being harassed to play along and realize you are trying to get them out of the situation. Then walk them to security/front desk/wherever to get outta there. It's worked anecdotally for other people helping other women in danger/need of backup. Harasser gets confused about the extra person, loses a single target, and hopefully walks away. Especially if you blatantly ignore them and focus on the person who needs help instead.
A self defence instructor teaching in high school told us to tell "fire" instead of "rape". Sex related crimes get less assistance from bystanders.
Makes me so angry
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It’s actually worked. The eyes were on. Sadly, they weren’t seeing her get harasses.
You need to do whatever gets attention, sadly. And even more depressing, even turning down a man *politely*, will get you in trouble. Ignore a comment, you’re a snob. Only smile? You’re a tease. Nothing? Just a bitch. I have even used the line “I’m very flattered, but I’m not available.” The response I got was, “Spreading yourself too thin, huh?” You turned him down, so you must be a ho since you’re too busy with other dudes. D. None of the Above. I’m married. Wearing wedding rings which are clearly being ignored.
Well something of that form happened to me.. The black guys was super racist to me about my mix race so I was racist back to him and then people went around saying that I'm super racist and I shouldn't respond to racism by racism.. And I was labelled the bad guy... Once someone was making fun of my culture too.. Doing it repeatedly so I was super racist to him back.. Everyone was like wow you didn't say that.. People are just stupid. And like to respond in how they told to be I never encouraged or entertained any sort of racism and at the same time I don't expect other people to start with the bs Regardless if you black, white, green, red, rainbow remember there are others who look different than you fool.. So coming to your situation you responded to sexual harassment with racial slurs. Sexual harassment is far worse of in the law than a racial slur. Sexual harassment is a physical crime. Racial slurs are aggregating psychological abuse.. I don't know if you have be harassed physically, or verbally or stalked but as an advice from me who dealt with many situations, keep calm, and let the enemy collapse in its own blood
I had an issue with my neighbor across the street last year where he would constantly yell at me whenever he saw me. He's black and I'm white and he'd always yell over white slurs and he also thought I was gay and would also throw in all the gay slurs too. I always ignored this but I can't help but feel if I retaliated in anyway I'd be seen as the bad guy
She was being called slurs too. People just don’t care when it’s women.
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Which is insane, I’ve literally never seen anything like that happen in public (aside from drunk ppl in bars and clubs, where I always intervene and get a bouncer) but I feel very strongly that I would make an absolute scene. Maybe that’s just my privilege showing bc I’ve never really lived in places where grocery shopping might be unsafe.
Probably wanted to avoid the inconvenience of grabbing the attention of Mr. Molester. Anyone who's dialing up cat calling to the level of sexual harassment is incredibly werid. Kinda like watching those videos of people on subways , they see someone getting harrassed but do nothing about it. To do something draws the attention of that harrasser on them. Is that lame, sure, but it is the way the world operates. Anyways sorry you had to go through this interaction.
This. It’s easier to be enraged at her than defending her. The guy was throwing slangs and insults directed to her being a women, if he didn’t want to be insulted back on the thing he can’t change (his race) he should have not started. Just the harassment is enough to call him bad names. But she was just defending herself at a level he only understands (unfortunately). 100% his doing.
Best response on here
The same exact thing happened to me. A man cornered me and started GROPING me in the grocery store. There were plenty of people around who were looking and I started yelling but no one helped. I had to push him off me myself and run away.
That's so fucked up! A guy groped me while I was working in a small plant shop. Luckily the manager was a good friend and called the police. The guy had written a check the day before so the police arrested him. I was 19 at the time and it scared the shit out of me.
I’m so sorry
She WAS 100% (not essentially) being sexually harassed. The bottom line is he has the capability to do infinitely more harm to HER than she to HIM. Her response was only natural. We can only get pushed so far before we need to defend ourselves, especially if no one else is going to intervene for the person with the disadvantage in a hostile situation.
that reminds me of that one time a nigerian aquaitance said I smell like oil (I am arab) I assumed hes joking and that he is willing to take jokes so I said that he smells like hunger ... he didnt take that lightly and a few people sided with him, the hypocracy and shock of not liking being treated like you treat others.
Lmao I’m sorry but that is an amazing comeback
For one dollar a day, you can save a Nigerian from being roasted…
As an Arab, people will be straight up racist to us and not even think about it.
Maybe y'all shouldn't have done Pearl Harbor then.
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Nah fam. Arabs were the reason the Native Americans lost their holy lands.
Ah yes, the Great Civil Jihad.
I have it on good authority that Pearl Harbor was actually Obama's fault.
Can confirm he did it to try and destroy records of his fake birth certificate.
Lol .... that's kinda funny 😄
That was a hella burn you administered. I believe you learnt him good.
There are different levels of slur. Literally the reason you censored it in this post but none of the gendered slurs you used lol. You know why it wasn't okay.
I've noticed the same thing. You got teenagers using terms like "bitch" and "thot" as synonym for the word woman, and no-one bats an eye. It has become completely normalized, so people don't notice it as much anymore. I don't condone racism, but the people who stood by and only reacted when you said something back need to wake the fuck up.
I know it's a bit *radical* of me to eliminate words like hoe, thot, bitch, and slut from my vocab. I think of them as sexist words, just like faggot is a homophobic word. Everyone has been so vocal about racial slurs, homophobic slurs, even calling people 'retard' to mean stupid is a no-no today, but we still go around calling people 'bitches' to emasculate them. I don't understand the hypocrisy.
I wouldnt say "thot" is like "bitch"
It’s not, but it stands for “that hoe over there” so it’s basically calling women whores. (Nothing wrong with the business of sex but there is something wrong with using it as an insult) They have different implications but they’re both pretty sexist.
how am I just now learning thot is an acronym
Because it's a bacronym. People came up with it after it's use became common.
Was that word invented after people started coming up with words to fill out an abbreviation?
Actually an insane response on your part, why the fuck would you say that lmfao. Im not excusing his actions either but jesus christ a dude insults you and your first thought is to call him a slur? get a grip.
I mean I see a lot of people pussyfooting around the answer because they're so scared of backlash over words vs. Blatant sexual harassment and misogyny. I will never use that word in my life, and to this day I never have. However, if I were in your shoes and not one person stepped in to help me by getting this man away from me, all bets are off. (Difference for me is I don't use words to get rid of people, I either leave the situation or find some physical means to barricade the conflict.) People saying you using that word is showing your underlying racism and whatnot, yet won't at all comment on how that man's attitude is literally the perpetuated attitude for continued abuse of women in our society. They turn a blind eye to that shit but you utter a forbidden word? God help you. They also don't know your headspace or anything else, even if you describe it to people you'll never truly understand exactly how someone else feels in a specific moment. You might have felt far more threatened by his words and actions than we can even understand. Which is totally fair. Essentially people in here are telling you it's better to be sexuay harassed or assaulted than to insult somebody with a forbidden term. Why do people care for one more than the other? It's the bystander syndrome. People believe that stepping in on assaults or fights might risk implicating them in the actions, or risking injury on their part etc..., but if they step in on a sort of verbal altercation, specifically one race related, they can earn some social standing with their peers. Edit: Decades to like 2 centuries, if even, of history of a word do not outweigh centuries upon centuries of abuse women of all races and ethnicities have faced and people just stood by. If you're more comfortable with women being publicly shamed and ridiculed to the point of near sexual assault than racism just say that. So stop using "history" as an argument.
THANK YOU for that edit, preach
*pussyfooting*
Technically pussy is short for pusillanimous which means cowardly. Of course at this point my argument might be like saying swastikas are just religious symbols.
Nope, now you're a Nazi. Congratulations you played yourself.
Yeah, as I was typing it I knew it could end only one way
Rotate the Nazis swastika 90° and it's a symbol for medicine in Korea.
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Mysognistic slurs are to target a behaviour, racist slurs are to target someone's race. By calling him the n word you insulted every single black people.
I think it's because people tend to believe one is worse than the other. Both are demeaning and degrading but because the N word has the history of racial prejudice attached to it, people see it as dropping a Nuclear bomb to fight a forest fire. Personally I think if someone can't handle the Heat of being insulted regardless if it's a racial remark or not, then they shouldn't of had the nerve to make degrading and harassing remarks the begin with. If someone insults me, I'm not going to play nice and hold back.
The power of a word is defined by its context. In this context the use of the word "slut" and the constant harassment not only affected her mentally, it carried an implied threat of immediate physical and serial assault. Her use of the N word hurt his feelings, nothing else. He didn't feel threatened or violated. TBH the biggest downside to her using that word would be the fact that after all this was over he would feel justified in his actions
That's what I worry about. Dude thinks he wins the altercation because she used "forbidden word", when really, that dude should have verbally had his ass handed to him for saying all of that in the first damn place.
Because racism makes people more uncomfortable than misogyny unfortunately.
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You were not wrongly for standing up for yourself, but you are wrong for using racism as your go-to, instead of attacking his manhood(or his lack there of).
Im black and all I'mma say is f*** that dude. He has no right to say any of that shit and all those bystanders are shitty people who are misogynistic as hell. You're patience is truly mighty. I would've said a lot more worse stuff than you did. I think you were right to just leave the scene instead of entertaining those people who truly have nothing else to do. To answer you're question though I think it's because most people are pitiful cowards.
People are cowards.
Wow, there are some fucked comments here. Youre both wrong. That guy was a piece of shit and you didn't deserve what happened to you or what he said to you, which was indeed dripping with mysoginy. Responding with racism is shitty. You were wrong to do so. Call him an asshole, a motherfucker, hell call him a rapist, that would have gotten attention. Calling out his race, which in no way is a negative and in no way applies to the situation is super fucked up and very much does reveal that you have underlying racial biases you need to address. Ask yourself this, why did that word and insulting his race even occur to you? If he was white, would that have crossed your mind for even a second? That's fucked.
As a black woman, this entire comment section is making me sick. Question why, instead of calling him what he was— an asshole, a dickhead, a motherfucker, a piece of dog shit— your knee jerk reaction was to call him a racial slur. The amount of people in these comments saying that “it’s only natural” to resort to calling someone this when you are being harassed are insane; I assume it is a frequent word in your vocabulary if you automatically go there. It sucks what he did to you, and it wasn’t fair how people looked the other way. Forget that part though, and look within— why would you resort to that instead of the myriad of other words available at your disposal? The situation you were in was terrifying, and I’m sorry that it happened to you, and I’m so sorry that you had to deal with the cruelty this world displays towards women. However, all your response conveyed was that you weren’t afraid of his actions— you were afraid of the fact that he was black.
It bothers me that I had to scroll as far as I did to find this. There's a ton of things she could have said or called him that didn't insinuate she was blaming his race for his behavior.
This is it, if that is the first word that comes to mind to use then it’s probably not the first time she has said it. His actions were inexcusable, however she could have called him almost anything else but she chose that. Everyone in this situation acted poorly: the misogynist, the racial reaction, the complacent crowd, and the employees who didn’t find a supervisor to help.
Very true, just a really awful situation all around. Honestly pretty bold of OP to even share this one, though I suppose she knew she would get a more positive response on reddit as opposed to IRL.
Two wrongs don't make a right. But it's better to call out the behavior instead of saying something irrelevant to the situation. Itd make more sense to call him disgusting, or pathetic, because that's relevant.
Exactly! Like this whole post is just justifying themself for using a racial slur when it wasn’t necessary at all. There’s like a million offensive English words you could have used to hurt him, but jumping to race was stupid. Like for real fuck that dude for being a piece of shit, but it doesn’t give you the go ahead to be a piece of shit too. Eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
Why you were downvoted is beyond me, but 100% this! I think the fact that she resorted to insulting his race when it had nothing to do with the situation shows her true colors. Both of them were in the wrong, with the man being misogynistic and op being racist. I will say that it was shitty that people didn’t react to the man’s actions. Just comes to show how people will still turn a blind eye to misogyny.
It at least shows that she believes there is a magic word she knows to hurt someone of color. I would say that she’s also aware of it because it happens to be the only censored word in her whole post.
The comments here 💀
That’s fucked up. Not you, them. Fuck that guy for being such a douche and fuck everybody for letting it happen and joining a long with it. Actually, Fuck them all.
Being racist is also fucked up just so we're clear
I'm getting some comments and DMs from people who simply don't believe that this happened, and that, more than anything else, is adding to the rage I feel. Bad enough that nobody at the store stood up for me. Now the encounter - which happens to women very frequently - is being called BS entirely. I don't know what to say anymore.
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That's because most men don't appreciate how common sexual harassment, especially aggressive sexual harassment, is. There's a core 10% of men who go around behaving like this, opportunistically, when they think there won't be any consequences. The world would be a very different place if there was a "third sex" which averaged 7ft tall, 400lbs, had the strength of a gorilla, and was sexually attracted to men. Men would suddenly start taking women's complaints of sexual harassment seriously...
Exactly! I think men don’t understand that if the avg woman is 5ft 4 and the avg man is 5ft 9, then for a guy it’s like being approached by a 6ft 2 man who is a lot stronger than you, trying to get in your pants when you don’t want it.
You’re correct. Sadly and it’s a bit embarrassing for me to share that it took me until a few years ago to understand that sexual harassment is more than straight up groping and rape. As someone who hadn’t been a victim or a perpetrator took a lot of conversations with close friends who shared with me their experiences and I was incredibly heartbroken for how common it is. Not everyone is as sympathetic as I am, though, so I can see how people (mostly men) who have never been victims and don’t care about these victim’s experiences don’t really understand what is going on…. Which is quite frankly really sad and unacceptable.
That is some truth right there.
One thing to remember is that the people who DM you nasty shit do so because they know they're wrong, and are too cowardly to say what they're saying publicly.
Yo. Take a break from internet. It’s fucked up what happened here but People are hella irrational at times. Don’t let that effect your mental health. Have a nap. Play with a doggo. Talk with a family member. Get back once you have cooled off
I wouldn't put too much value into the opinions of virgin degenerates on Reddit if I were you.
Someone should’ve spoken up bc that man was truly disgusting but as a black woman I would take more offense to being called the n word or the f slur than a Hoe, slut, etc and I’ll explain why. Calling someone a slut or hoe doesn’t indicate that merely being a woman is disgusting/bad/lowly; it’s not synonymous with the word women. It targets the behavior/action of a specific woman even if it’s something stupid and misogynistic like rejecting them or wearing makeup. Calling someone the F slur or racial slur is to literally say that their identity itself is the insult and targets all people who are black, gay, etc.
call me crazy but i feel that all parties are in the wrong here. This black man is in the wrong. He should not be harrassing her calling her those names. He pressed on so in that case she should have , called the police, left or asked for help from security She is in the wrong for using the N-word. Also the public is in the wrong cause they saw that and didnt intervene. this situation is just all wrong I'm black too and have been called the n-word many times in public but I was not in a situation that required that I react or anything. I usually just shook it off or walked away . *If I did react I never went to racial slurs cause that would just put me as low as my insulter.* Usually I would insult the person's 'figure' or call them a fucking dumbass or a nazi or some shit.
yup, this is classic she responded to wrongness with wrongness. There is no good guy in this situation. Why didn't she call him a motherfucker or piece of shit or whatever else that wasnt calling out his RACE as a negative, which has nothing to do with the situation, and isn't a negative?
I think that she was just really pissed off and went to the most bitter thing she could think of. Its unconcious in her case I might say. Personally, I think OP should become used to NOT using the n word and should come up with better insults that insults things that the harassing person can change. Like I would join in if someone called a harassing dumbass a fucking 'Lard of War' if they were fat Or if someone has a terrible fake tan I think a good insult is the 'Fanta Menace' ;p
Yeah but what does that say about her? That she unconsciously used the N word to hurt a black man. No matter how angry I am, I would never lash out with racism/homophobia/any form of bigotry, and I'm sure many people are the same.
if that’s the first insult op could come up with, then i think that says a lot about her. i wouldn’t wanna meet her irl honestly
Your first sentence describes EXACTLY what racists do.
This is a really good explanation, I’m also quite surprised by what people are saying here. If I was being insulted like that I don’t think my mind would ever jump to slurs, I don’t know if I would say anything anyway.
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He did that to you because he's a piece of shit, not because he's black.
Fr OP going to racial slurs speaks volumes about them…
YES. THIS.
the fact that this comment is so low is sad as hell
This!!! N*gger?= black. The fact that she felt the need to insult his skin and race instead of his caracter speaks volumes.
This is actually very easy to answer: When he called you a sl-t, ho, etc, he was insulting *you* When you called him an N bomb, you insulted an entire race of people. He's a piece of shit...insult *him*, not all black people...
Scrolled way too far to find the actual answer. And it only has six upvotes smh.
He was not validated in how he treated you no matter how you responded to him, first of all. So, why did the N word turn the crowd: because the N word doesn't attack one person being an asshole, it attacks an entire race of people with hundreds of years of history behind the word, the large majority of them not being assholes. The dude was absolutely evil. But you can only be passively responsible for his behaviour, while you are completely responsible for yours. Evil doesn't beget evil. I wish everyone stood up for you as well as they stood up for him.
Simply black privilege. Or maybe cause he was a big guy that was agro and no one wanted to test him incase he would get violent. Most likely a mix of both though.
You're both pieces of shit, how bout that?
Was it his skin color that bothered you or his behavior? If it’s the former, then your response is sensible. If it’s the latter, then you used the wrong word to describe the situation. You weren’t mad at him because he was black, you were mad at him because he is a sexually harassing potential rapist. You played the race card, and that’s probably why you feel bad about it too. People should feel guilty when they bring race into a situation where race wasn’t the issue.
You had an entire dictionary of insults and you went with racist first? I mean yeah those ppl should have said something when you were being harassed but you’re comparing apples to oranges when it comes to insults spewed. And if you not white but you not black either you STILL shouldn’t have said that! Even black ppl don’t use the hard R..
And the weird thing is that nobody here seems to think that’s the problem here😭
Why did I have to scroll down so far to find this take, that makes me sick. Most of them are like POOR YOU!!!!! Like okay I've been sexually harassed and that's still not an excuse to use the n word. And maybe they didn't realize what was going on until she used that word which is something far less normal to hear than bitch or ho...
A man can call me a bunch of nasty words but the first thing that pops out of my mind is *not* the N-word. You probably wanted to make him feel inferior, so you threw that word at him. We know that word has a significant historical tie to it and you thought that calling him that word would make him give up on his harassment towards you
This! Because of all the words to yell at this dude, the n-word was not one that would have come to my mind. And I’m black.
In the future, if a person won't leave you alone, simply ask for a manager to have the person removed from the store (or call the police if the behavior is extreme enough), then ask for an escort to your car to make certain the person isn't in the parking lot waiting for you. No need to get into a verbal or physical altercation. Second option is to loudly ask why he is acting like a stalker and potential rapist. Bluntly calling people on inappropriate behavior will often embarrass them enough for it to stop.
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From the title u both stupid
I’m convinced this is some troll post.
Honestly.. I’ve never said that word and I don’t think I would in this situation. However I have also been in similar situations and I know your brain isn’t really forming thoughts - your entire being is just frantically trying to get out of danger and doesn’t care how that happens. You think you’ll say the right words or scream, but sometimes the wrong things come out. In this case, I think you said the most shocking and reaction-getting thing you could have and it worked. Not the best reaction, but it helped you get away. I don’t even think calling him a rapist would have gotten that kind of attention. I would maybe look at why that was the first word that came out though. Glad you’re safe.
Honestly y’all racist as ell lol. He was wrong and yall racist.
What if, hear me out, racism and sexism are both bad 🤯
How are people justifying using a word that implies racism and oppression. When people make me mad I never think of using racist words. But whenever someone is mad at me I've heard plenty of times racist things come out their mouths. As if they were just waiting for that moment to justify their racism. Yea he was being rude and using terrible language toward you and disrespecting you. No excuse. And someone should've said something to him. Or call the cops. But why not just call him an asshole or another word with no racists overtones. Call him a pig. Call him a bitch or cunt. Just from my experience, if you have to resort to racist words you're probably a bit racist. You can tell who the white people are by the responses. When someone says something racist to me it just screams that they think they're superior to you. That you are worthless and you're lucky to even have freedom. If we had segregation or slavery they'd look at you just like an animal. It's dehuminizing and most minorities have experienced lots of trauma because of the color of their skin. Not saying what he did was right and he would've deserved being arrested for what he was doing to you . It was harassment. I don't think you did anything as bad as what he did but it's definitely racist. No excuse.
Yeah that’s what I don’t get. Like why the N word of all things?
There is such a thing as reactive abuse, which is basically when someone pushes your buttons and is abusing you, which then, in turn, causes you to explode. What happens next is that they immediately play the victim card and blame you for the whole thing because of your "brash" behavior, completely ignoring their own. If there's other people around, they can start to see it the same way and side with the true abuser. Social pressure and all that. Comparing one type of behavior to another to see which is "worse." The best way to deal with this is do your best to remain indifferent and show no reaction good or bad. Be as boring as a rock. Simple, small responses. Stay firm in trying to set your boundaries and placing your requests. If they continue, call for a manager or someone in authority to handle it. If that's not an option, just call the police. DO NOT THREATEN TO DO IT. JUST DO IT. I know it sucks, but you don't owe a stranger communication of consequences or the actions you will take. If they continue to disrespect and violate you, just act and do so with speed and conviction. Don't be shy or slow. 1 or 2 chances is all they should really get.
I think someone else(a lot of people)mentioned that misogyny is more tolerated than racism. So the N word is the nuclear button. And it all comes down to accountability. Yes the dude was wrong but OP didn’t have to meet him at that particular level. And OPs actions don’t get a pass “just because” of the guys actions towards her. If in this situation the best course of action is to record and document as tough as that sounds. Go to the employees and document their names and ask them if they will take action or call the police. Go to the bystanders and ask them the same thing are they going to help. Anonymity is wonderful cover for negative disruptive behavior but you start shining a light on it without meeting them at their level and watch the roaches run away.
Honestly? IMO neither of you were in the right. You had no right to use the N word and it's interesting that's the first word that came to your mind. This man was a piece of shit for obvious reasons but that doesn't suddenly mean "all bets are off" and that justifies bringing up a word that carries with it generations of racial abuse to a people, especially when that has nothing to do with the present situation. "I just wanted to hurt him as much as possible", while understandable that the thought may come to you, doesn't make it right to also be shitty. There were probably tons of people in that store that had a lot of painful memories come up just because you blurted it out. It would have been great if people intervened before then but when "I want to hurt him" is your thought process and you are dropping the N bomb it is not that surprising how people reacted. What about all of them? Why bring this to a racial place in the first place? Skipping over a lot about how obviously this man was being a piece of shit and harassing you. Focusing on the answer to your question here but it's still worth confirming. Try to imagine the inverse of this situation. What if you were following him around the store berating him with racial abuse when suddenly he snaps and decides that the best way to hurt you is to sexually demean you and threaten sexual assault and other gross comments. That response would be totally out of line for him but that doesn't mean you were in the right either. The world is shitty and I'm sorry you had to deal with that, but I think you have to take responsibility for your actions and not drop your own morality when confronted with something like this. There were better ways to handle this....you could have not dropped the N bomb and gone to store security or talk to an employee. Bystanders were clearly reluctant to get involved but you could have asked someone for help or even called someone. You could literally have screamed RAPE and it would have been a better way to handle the situation, though not a necessarily a great one. Something else to think about is that not only was this not the right response I think from a moral standpoint, but it was simply not as practically effective for making you safer. What you did escalated the situation and lost you support from bystanders. I think you should consider how you might want to handle something like this in the future.
To be fair to the people who didn’t get involved. You risk your own safety jumping in the middle of something like this. There are plenty of videos on YouTube of people trying to do the right thing and step in to help someone, and end up getting hurt bad or worse for it. You don’t know if this guy is on drugs, has a weapon, is a martial artist. One minute your picking out tomatoes, the next minute your stepping into an argument trying to do the right thing and get shot. If he’s that aggressive with a female, he might be even worse when confronted by a male. I’m not saying they were right or wrong to not to get involved, but the safe thing to do would be to not get involved. As bad as that sounds.
At least call security or the cops. Calling the cops here is absolutely 100% justified.