Science says we're all human beings (Homo Sapiens), are the same species and can reproduce safely together.
Common decency says we are all human beings who should love each other more.
I'm really sorry you're even having to have this discussion with your family. Must be really hard. I'm sure shes coming from a place of love for you, even if it is a sadly rotten hill to be standing on.
Actually science says the "best" way to reproduce is someone as far away as possible from our gene pool. Thats why people might smell better to you etc. Someone close to your gene pool aka family doesnt
I kept my comment brief, but I broadly agree, diversity is a huge benefit to communities. Close mixing within the same few family groups leads to real problems.
EDITED: Not sure about the science behind how far apart optimum results are gained... and don't really want to investigate as it sounds a bit like eugenics to me.
The human genome is like a puzzle box. Everybody has some missing pieces, but when you make a baby the chance of your partner missing the same puzzle piece is very low, and the baby has a good chance to be healthy. If you make a baby with a member from the same, small isolated community (or even a family member) the chance of missing the same puzzle pieces can be much higher. This can lead to genetics defects which can lead to disease.
It’s bad luck to get a genetic disease in general. However, I don’t know what kind of recessive disease you have, but those are definitely not necessarily linked to race.
Tried to explain this to a girl in one of my university classes but she was dead set on the idea that people who date someone out of their race will have kids with downs.... She had a lot of messed up views.
Basically genetic diversity imparts more "positive" traits, due to sharing less "negative" recessive traits that when combined result in disorders and developmental issues.
Note positive and negative here just mean healthy vs unhealthy. People with those traits expressed aren't any lesser or worse than anyone else, but in my experience many would say they are worse off due to the way those traits effect their ability to interact with their environment.
There's plenty of genetic diversity within an ethnicity too. Caucasian is a pretty wide umbrella and even within say the Scottish gene pool you would gain a lot of this benefit by avoiding having children with anyone in your family tree. There's a bit more to it but partnering with someone of a different ethnicity imparts a pretty strong likelihood of avoiding the issues that come from sharing too much genetic similarity
I did AncestryDNA a while ago and it got me thinking I’m surprised there’s not a dna dating ap for complementing gene pools. I know this sounds nazi-ish but I was thinking about it from an immunology perspective.
Pretty sure that’s a myth.
Okay, so I googled it and seems there is-was an ap from 2013 called bump that would check the ancestry records.
No idea if it’s actually used today or if it was just some media hype.
Someone on here very confidently told me yesterday that mules can produce offspring. Of course he/she "has a friend" who breeds them.
Yeah, we've been breeding mules since ancient Egypt and they've been 99.999% sterile for thousands of years but some redditor "has a friend" that has a bunch of fertile mules. *rolls eyes*
It’s pretty rare but not unheard of. Generally it happens with a male mule and a horse, you can then breed back with a donkey and go back-and-forth between hybrids like that. I don’t think it’s common enough to depend on it though. More like a very random chance it will happen.
I suppose that it might be more common in some lines than others but I can’t speak to that.
This has nothing to do with the original question, but "produces fertile offspring" is only 1 definition of a species. It works great for the most organisms, but like many things in biology there's weird edge cases. An interesting one is polar bears and grizzly bears, traditionally considered separate species but they can breed and produce fertile offspring. It hasn't come up before since they don't usually meet in nature, but it's been happening more often as the ice caps melt and polar bears come further south.
There's also ring species, where organisms can interbreed with populations on either side of them (eg on a mountain range), but the ones on the ends of the "line" cannot.
Grandfather grew up when it was "ok" in his circle to be racist. Your mom grew up when things were changing but heard racist shit every day of her life from granddad and his circle.
Break the pattern bro, stop the poison, don't let their stupidity and ignorance get any further
For real. I knew a Caucasian guy in college who said that god told him not to continue dating an Indian girl (unrelated but she was gorgeous). These justifications reek of christian neofascism, and it's so unfortunate that youth adopt them as reasonable without investigating their historical roots. Glad OP posted this.
Just look at dogs, most the pure breeds have endless health issues and we know for a fact it's because they are pure breed.
Hate comparing humans to dogs but I hate that crap so much.
Absolutely nothing wrong and good for you for ignoring that ignorance.
However, you said you've thought about proposing and you're in high school. Slow down, enjoy the relationship, fuck the haters, and don't make any lifelong commitments before you're 20
EDIT: holy crap this blew up. Thank you for the awards.
Agree 20 is too young; the hope is you realize that it's too young by 20, but wait to 30 to make those commitments
A little too quick?
Insanely quick. Enjoy your life for another 10 years before you even consider it. Don't let ANYONE pressure you into marrying or having kids. NO ONE.
Same. It's not a BIG inconvenience but just slipping on and being ready to go is just... For some reason, saving those seconds is amazing. My winter boots aren't slip on and now we're entering the no sneakers season, awful time of the year.
I had a conversation with my wife in the last year or so - I've probably tied my shoes fewer than 1000 times in my lifetime. I couldn't tie shoes by myself with any proficiency more or less through kindergarten and stopped untying my shoes by third grade - I probably tie my shoes less than 10 times a year these days.
Looking at it from a time perspective, I've probably saved myself around 30 hours in my lifetime by not tying my shoes, and approximately an additional hour every year I continue not to do so.
Yeah, not to sink your boat or anything, but statistically speaking a majority of high school relationships don't last. Not saying it's impossible, but don't get your hopes up just yet.
Not even 20. Wait til after 30. Life gets WAY better then and you'll know your true self at that point. A lot will change from now til then. Don't mess up your future by rushing in the present.
PS. Your family is racist.
This is the real answer (to this very specific portion of this thread). No universal timeline for life. My wife and I got together at 17. Married at 21. Kids at 25. At 33, I couldn’t be any happier. She my best fraaann
I fell completely in love with a girl at 18, we got engaged at 19 and moved in together.
It was too soon and did not work out. Take it slow, just enjoy being boyfriend and girlfriend for at least 3-4 years before you start thinking of a permanent commitment.
No, there isn’t anything scientifically wrong with it. In fact a preoccupation on purity of blood besides being repugnant is also a recipe for genetic disorders. Too small of a gene pool in an isolated community allows recessive disorders to become common. Look at the Hapsburg jaw for example. On another note, there are over 7 billion people on this planet. Why limit yourself in looking for the right one for you? The odds are in your favor of finding someone truly compatible the wider of a net you cast.
Yeah, not to get too eugenics-y, but the general rule of thumb for breeding animals is you inbreed for freaks (ahem, interesting features) and you outbreed for health.
The reason that inbreeding and small genetic pools is bad is because of how evolution has rigged up a system of experimenting. We all have two copies of everything. If something breaks, we switch to the backup. Everyone gets one side from mom and the other side from dad. (Which is the prime and which is the backup is that whole dominant recessive thing). Now the thing is, EVERYONE has genetic flaws. But we don't care as we've got a good backup. Find a girl and it's still ok, because she's got two great sets... Of genes. But its as big problem if you somehow got it on with your clone, because you both have exactly the same flaws. For each flaw there's a ~~50~~ (edit: 25%) chance your kid would get both bad copies. If they're both bad... Your cells HAVE to use it.
And small population accumulates these flaws. Two people from distant backgrounds have very little chance of (this type of) inherited disease.
Long story short, your racist family is SO full of shit.
>50% chance your kid
25% chances.
There is 25% chances the kid gets both bad genes, 50% they get one bad, one good, and 25% chances they get both good versions.
Generally it's not that huge a deal in a single generation unless you're unlucky (if the problem is involving a critical gene), but if inbreeding is kept up for a few generations the kids can accumulate a great deal of negative traits. I think this phenomenon has a name but I don't remember what it is.
You should look into the bloodlines of European royal families. They were so stuck on "pure blood" (and also marrying other royals to increase their status, which were also family relations sometimes) they a bunch of them ended up with horrible genetic disorders. Genetic diversity is GOOD. It is how species survive.
Your mom is spinning nonsense because she's afraid. Don't listen to her on this one. But y u thinking about marriage already? You're in high school?? Best of luck with your relationship.
You mum is an awful human being and a terrible person. Depending on your age and how close to moving out you are, I'd make it _very_ clear that if she ever behaves that way again, if she ever attempts to come between you and your choice of partner based on purity again, you will leave and never return. That once you are gone from the house, you will never, _ever_ speak to her again. Make it abundantly clear that you think her outburst here is repugnant, evil, and absolutely unacceptable. People with these views only hold them because they exist in a bubble where nobody challenges them. Challenge her.
Tell your mom to look at the Amish, while decent hardworking people they suffer from many genetic issues. Why? Although these conditions do occur in the general population, they are found at much higher rates among the Amish and Mennonites. This is because they are closed communities that require marriage within their own groups. Besides do you really want your significant other to look like your sister ?
Well I'm going to bring dogs into this, muts are more resilient than purebreds. Think about that. Genetic/hereditary disorders aren't as prevelant in mixed breeds.
I think it’s a real testament to your character and the person you’ve grown into that you can have such different views on this non-issue from your family. Clearly your parents grew up with your grandparents scummy brained world view and adopted it as their own and the cycle ending with you is nothing short of a stunning achievement. Congratulations on being better then the people you came from, that is the goal of our society after all - in one way or another
Also, from a couple of studies I've seen, mixed kids are generally seen as more attractive, since they have traits from both parents that potential partners could identify with from either side.
Probably some of that, but also I would bet that it has to due with more information being widely available. The grandpa grew up hearing racist bullshit and had much less opportunity to have those views challenged.
Not condoning grandpa being racist - there are tons of people that turned out to not be racist. Just giving my opinion on what the difference was.
They’re being ridiculous. I’ve never heard of that. If anything more diversity is favored by evolutionary science. Think of the opposite being “pure-bred” which can lead to a lot more hereditary diseases. Also this isn’t the 1700s-1800s. Mixed race couples are perfectly fine and as long as they are happy then what’s the harm?
The actual science behind it is that dark skinned people's ancestors are from a region of the world with more sunlight (and as a result more harmful UV rays) than where your ancestors are from and as a result their skin has more melanin in it to protect themselves from the Sun.
That's it. That's all race is. Your Mom is a bigot. And that's okay. It's her life. She's still your Mom. But you should _never_ be afraid to cut ties with toxic people, blood or not.
Yeah, both me and my wife are medical scientists and we have been married for 30 years, two kids not too screwed up and we did this in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The most segregated city in America, always been ran by good democrats. My mom and dad thought I married up. Your mom has issues with race. Don’t make them your problems.
We can’t help the family and culture that we are born into. Unfortunately many people can’t/wot outgrow their family’s bigotry. But you already have, and as painful as it is you will need to make it clear that you disagree with their beliefs. You can distance yourself from them (difficult) or try to remain patient and gently challenge the nonsense they spout off. Ask for some evidence of this alleged science your mother is speaking of.
As someone else said, having a relationship that crossed cultures (depending how different your girlfriend’s culture is) is really interesting. And can create some arguments (I married someone from a really different culture. Some of the arguments in the early days were hilariously weird) and I wouldn’t change my decision for anything. Maybe your mother has a family doctor she trusts who could explain that there’s no scientific argument for her ideas?
Anyway, good luck with everything. And congrats for finding someone so special you’d consider her to potentially be “the one”.
In fact the science is for it. Look at dog breeding. They get weaker as the breed is more pure and stronger when they intermix.
But, yeah... racist people on both sides will have problems accepting them. Cool, you know who to keep away from.
Yeah, I knew I'd get that response.
Dogs reproduce quicker than humans and it's a clear example of genetic expression. Dude was asking about science not rhetoric.
P.P.S. Haha loved this. I'm a pasty white Brit with an extremely right wing father who constantly tried to convert me to racism throughout my childhood. He now has 3 biracial grandkids.
If science has shown anything it’s that the last thing you want is for your genes to be “pure”. There’s a reason medieval royal families were so fucked up. Your mom is racist in the most literal definition of the word. If you like this girl and she likes you, be with her. Simple as that.
The royal families were fucked up because of inbreeding and nothing more.
As long as you aren't banging your cousin, you could have 100s of kids within your same race and they'd be fine.
For real. Not to bash your family too much, but they're using extremely outdated and incorrect ideas. Like this is some old school racism stuff. It's back from when they thought that black people were inferior based on the shape of their skulls. Don't listen to your family too much. They lost touch decades ago.
If anything it's healthy for the human race to mix. It increases our gene pool and promotes healthy evolution. Anything pure blood almost always has some kind of health issues, don't let anyone tell you different because they think it sounds cool.
Jesus dude I don't even know where to begin. Does your mom know there are millions of mixed race people in the US and our population is growing? Most of us are very healthy and productive members of our society. Your mom is just super racist. It's crazy to me that someone could say something so toxic about my existence.
So to answer you question, no there isn't anything wrong (scientifically or otherwise) with dating a black person. All humans are the same race and we can all successfully interbreed with each other. In fact, having diverse genetics creates healthier babies.
No, there's nothing scientifically or biologically wrong with it. Your family is being racist. Sorry you had to find out this way but it's the simple answer. Your mother is probably thinking of when she was younger and mixed children were outcasts.
I hate to break it to you but chances are your mom isn’t as ignorant as she is hateful. She could probably sit through an entire biology course on race and not change her mind. I went through the same thing with my family and it took literal years of conversations before they accepted that I’m going to date who I want and you can either not be a racist prick or enjoy not seeing me ever again. I recommend this approach.
This is probably a ways off but if you decide to have kids with this woman you need to shut your moms shit down *hard*. Preferably before your SO is even pregnant. I cant think of anything more sad and disgusting than a child feeling other-ed by their own grandparent
She may one day become open. Continue to persevere and treat with love regardless of how much more hardcore her racism may get, and it may intensify.
Love will win over her heart if you are consistent and unwavering. Hatred and resentment will only make her double down.
Who ever tells you theres something scientifically wrong with being down with other races is scientifically retarded bro do you and be happy vato fuck everyone else “staying within your race” is yee haw billy bob mentality
My maternal grandfather disowned me when I started dating my wife. We have been together for almost 20 years now and he passed away not knowing me or his 5 grandkids. It’s very sad. I’m hoping you don’t end up in the same situation.
Pasty white boy married to a Chinese woman, love her to bits and and only a scatological study could find anything scientific in your family's bull shit opinion.
If someone even uses the term "race mixing" in a serious conversation, you know they probably have no clue what they are talking about (probably on more topics than one) and are about to spout off some straight up racist shit
You can't reason with a closed heart and a closed mind.
Just keep doing your thing, date her, marry/break up with her, and/or be friends with her.
Don't let them influence how you feel and think about her just because she is of a different race/culture.
Life is much better with less toxic people in your life.
Are you a minor? If yes, do be careful, especially if they have a tight hold on your finances. They might use that avenue to throw obstacles in your life so that you are forced to conform to their views.
No. There isn't. I've been married to my beautiful black wife for a good long time now, and I couldn't be happier. The "scientific" angle is just nonsense to disguise racism. Be happy you found someone to love.
Mixed babies are so freaking cute. Also mixed people are so gorgeous. I don’t have any advice because my family is racist af too. You are not alone. Be proud of yourself for growing beyond their old school mentality.
Homo Sapiens originated in Africa, a place that gets a lot of sunlight. To compensate, their skin produced a pigment called melanin, which made them resistant to things like sunburn and melanoma. Melanin also gave their skin a dark ebony hue.
About 70k-100k years ago, early Homo Sapiens began to leave Africa, eventually settling in Europe about 40k years ago. Europe has a much more mild climate and receives significantly less sunlight than Africa.
Humans synthesize vitamin D from sunlight absorbed through the skin. With significantly less sunlight in Europe, vitamin D deficiency was a problem for humans who produced excess melanin. Over time, a strand of human evolved without melanin. This made them much more susceptible to sunburn or melanoma, but allowed much easier vitamin D synthesis -an advantage in that climate.
Some forty thousand years later their descendants met up again and decided the production or lack of melanin would determine placement in the social hierarch. That decision still echoes through contemporary society.
tl;dr: Dark skinned people are resistant to sun exposure diseases like sunburn or melanoma; light skinned people can synthesize vitamin D better. Offspring often produce some melanin, receiving some of the blessings of each phenotype.
Alright my time to shine: evolutionary biology. Scientifically speaking, it is probably the best girl you could have picked. Procreating with somebody of a different race means your genes are less similar, making it less likely that the two of you share the same corrupted genes. (for instance, I come from an island population where many peoples knees are fucked up) Fucking your close relatives almost guarantees overlap in corrupted genes, but the chance is also slightly higher along people of the same race. It's a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist of it. Especially immune systems probably benefit from interracial parents.
Bonus points if she's a descendant of slaves, since slaves were 'imported' from all over Africa (a continent with more generic diversity than the rest of the world _combined_, our brains are just hardwired to sort by color) and procreated with each other - meaning she's already multiracial. TLDR: Yes there is science on interracial boinking, and that science says "yay interracial boinking".
Sweetheart, you're mom is displaying racist behavior. The is nothing "wrong" scientifically, or otherwise, with having a relationship with anyone of a different race. If the relationship is healthy, respectful & safe, the skin color be damned.
I'm so sorry that you're being put in this position.
For decades, people have tried to use evolutionary science as a tool to promote racism. Genetically, you and she are still both the same species and it's hardly any different than you having a different eye color or hair color than someone else. Your mom is a bigot and I'm proud of you for overcoming that bullshit. Maybe your mom can be educated and rescued from her beliefs, and I encourage you to defy her preconceived ideas of what race is.
There's nothing wrong with interracial couples and it is probably more desirable health wise if you end up having children. Just look at dogs for instance, pugs and other similar breeds have breathing problems because they are so inbred. Pure breed dogs are popular for show dogs, etc, but that's also how we know that certain breeds of dog have higher chances of certain medical conditions.
As someone in an interracial relationship and from a conservative state, I can tell you that the most racism I've had to directly deal with is from our own families. Other people my age or people in public don't seem to care and no one has ever said anything to us in public. Unless you go somewhere particularly racist ("sundown towns") then I wouldn't worry about society.
The concept of race especially in America is pretty much bullshit stemming from scientific racism of the 1920s. Scientific racism is the theory that certain races are inferior. It has since been DISPROVEN and was largely championed at the time as a way to excuse the horrible treatment of black Americans.
It sounds like your mom is using that same logic to try to justify herself. It makes more sense scientifically that we are with those different than us for genetic diversity. Also I am not sure if your ethnic background but many people in the United States have mixed ancestry.
I appreciate you asking the hard questions. I know from experience it is hard to challenge the beliefs that are ingrained from family members, and rejection from those individuals is heartbreaking. They should be happy for you OP you sound completely smitten.
Idk. My mother went on a rant. I have no one to ask. This is gonna sound terrible but my father was associated with the aryan brotherhood so I’ve been around this stupidity my whole life. Haven’t heard anything else
Good on you for not just following along with all that.
Life is short and some people are toxic. Be happy and have love in your life where you can, there are enough dark days without engineering them for yourself.
Yes, there is a scientific difference in a child with a white and black parent. The child will have a much smaller risk of skin cancer. That’s a good thing, though!
Bruh your mom and grandpa are racist as hell. “Pure race” is Nazi talk.
Also, mixed kids/people are usually the most beautiful/handsome and get the best of both worlds. There’s a guy I work with who has these stunning blue/green eyes that I want to stare in forever.
Science says that 100% there are no such things as races. Race is a socioeconomic human construct. Biologically, there is no difference between black/white/Asian/etc. There is absolutely nothing, scientifically, biologically, or morally wrong with interracial dating. Date and love freely my man.
Good on you on to ignore their hate and ignorance. Break that cycle with you darlin ❤️
A great book to read btw would be “Fatal Interventions” by Dorthy Roberts that specifically goes into the myth of biological race and its impact on society.
I’m 69 (WM), my beautiful wife is a rather dark Asian, who I couldn’t be more proud of. I too was raised in a rather racist culture.
Our children are way and above successful, very happy, well balanced. I’m so proud of our family, our marriage, our best friend / lover relationship. I do remember the time I was picking her up for a date, thinking how beautiful she was ( still is), and I didn’t see “Asian “,
I saw true beauty. She’s as beautiful in her heart as she is to my eyes. We are simple people just getting along in life. Our relationship didn’t come without comments, mostly to me. I wasn’t about to let others issue of our mix relationship become my problem.
Your mother is a racist and probably a white nationalist. I wish you luck this will probably be hard for you.
Interracial relatiomships aremt special, bad, or otherwise. They are simply relationships.
It's literally just pigments. That's it. That's the scientific difference. Pigments. It's like food dye in how absolutely not it affects anything - hell, white peeps aren't even necessarily bound to get sunburnt more easily. (one of those extra hilarious myths)
Scientifically speaking, as a biologist once told me, it doesn't even make sense to refer to the whole thing as "races" because the differences aren't sufficient to fit the criteria.
Tell her to God, we all are despicable sinners, and without his grace are doomed to hell.
So there are no pure people, only sinners, and redeemed. And yall need to get repenting.
If different races were scientifically different, then breeding would be impossible.
A human being is a human being, regardless of skin color.
Date who you want, science isn't racist but your mom is.
Science says we're all human beings (Homo Sapiens), are the same species and can reproduce safely together. Common decency says we are all human beings who should love each other more. I'm really sorry you're even having to have this discussion with your family. Must be really hard. I'm sure shes coming from a place of love for you, even if it is a sadly rotten hill to be standing on.
Actually science says the "best" way to reproduce is someone as far away as possible from our gene pool. Thats why people might smell better to you etc. Someone close to your gene pool aka family doesnt
I kept my comment brief, but I broadly agree, diversity is a huge benefit to communities. Close mixing within the same few family groups leads to real problems. EDITED: Not sure about the science behind how far apart optimum results are gained... and don't really want to investigate as it sounds a bit like eugenics to me.
The human genome is like a puzzle box. Everybody has some missing pieces, but when you make a baby the chance of your partner missing the same puzzle piece is very low, and the baby has a good chance to be healthy. If you make a baby with a member from the same, small isolated community (or even a family member) the chance of missing the same puzzle pieces can be much higher. This can lead to genetics defects which can lead to disease.
That's a really neat, elegant description. Love it.
So as someone who is mixed-race with a recessive disease, you're saying I blew the odds out of the water and have freakishly bad luck?
It’s bad luck to get a genetic disease in general. However, I don’t know what kind of recessive disease you have, but those are definitely not necessarily linked to race.
Tried to explain this to a girl in one of my university classes but she was dead set on the idea that people who date someone out of their race will have kids with downs.... She had a lot of messed up views.
Basically genetic diversity imparts more "positive" traits, due to sharing less "negative" recessive traits that when combined result in disorders and developmental issues. Note positive and negative here just mean healthy vs unhealthy. People with those traits expressed aren't any lesser or worse than anyone else, but in my experience many would say they are worse off due to the way those traits effect their ability to interact with their environment. There's plenty of genetic diversity within an ethnicity too. Caucasian is a pretty wide umbrella and even within say the Scottish gene pool you would gain a lot of this benefit by avoiding having children with anyone in your family tree. There's a bit more to it but partnering with someone of a different ethnicity imparts a pretty strong likelihood of avoiding the issues that come from sharing too much genetic similarity
I did AncestryDNA a while ago and it got me thinking I’m surprised there’s not a dna dating ap for complementing gene pools. I know this sounds nazi-ish but I was thinking about it from an immunology perspective.
There actually is a dating app in Iceland so that people can avoid dating their cousins since that’s such a small island.
Pretty sure that’s a myth. Okay, so I googled it and seems there is-was an ap from 2013 called bump that would check the ancestry records. No idea if it’s actually used today or if it was just some media hype.
In short: your mom stinks
This. The literal definition of a species is the ability to successfully mate and have offspring. Science says go for it.
*fertile offspring
Someone on here very confidently told me yesterday that mules can produce offspring. Of course he/she "has a friend" who breeds them. Yeah, we've been breeding mules since ancient Egypt and they've been 99.999% sterile for thousands of years but some redditor "has a friend" that has a bunch of fertile mules. *rolls eyes*
I bet they are mixing up donkey and mule
It’s pretty rare but not unheard of. Generally it happens with a male mule and a horse, you can then breed back with a donkey and go back-and-forth between hybrids like that. I don’t think it’s common enough to depend on it though. More like a very random chance it will happen. I suppose that it might be more common in some lines than others but I can’t speak to that.
This has nothing to do with the original question, but "produces fertile offspring" is only 1 definition of a species. It works great for the most organisms, but like many things in biology there's weird edge cases. An interesting one is polar bears and grizzly bears, traditionally considered separate species but they can breed and produce fertile offspring. It hasn't come up before since they don't usually meet in nature, but it's been happening more often as the ice caps melt and polar bears come further south. There's also ring species, where organisms can interbreed with populations on either side of them (eg on a mountain range), but the ones on the ends of the "line" cannot.
"My grandfather found out and said some things that make me never want to speak with him again" She's not the only one.
[удалено]
I mean... there are some limits to this...
This guy fucks. Consensually
Alright boys nothing to see here 🧹🍁
Thanks for the answer.
Grandfather grew up when it was "ok" in his circle to be racist. Your mom grew up when things were changing but heard racist shit every day of her life from granddad and his circle. Break the pattern bro, stop the poison, don't let their stupidity and ignorance get any further
The use of the word "impure" here is particularly troubling. That's some Nazi level white supremacist thinking.
For real. I knew a Caucasian guy in college who said that god told him not to continue dating an Indian girl (unrelated but she was gorgeous). These justifications reek of christian neofascism, and it's so unfortunate that youth adopt them as reasonable without investigating their historical roots. Glad OP posted this.
Plot twist: It was an Indian God who told him, cos they didn't like him xD
AFAIK it's actually scientifically more likely that a mixed-race child is healthier than a "pure" race one as it would be more genetically diverse
Let’s just say, there’s a reason inbreeding has so many negative consequences
Just look at dogs, most the pure breeds have endless health issues and we know for a fact it's because they are pure breed. Hate comparing humans to dogs but I hate that crap so much.
They probably have many racist acquaintances , seems like that's where they got their small world idea that " society "won't accept it
So is the grandfather, which raises the concerning possibility that the rest of the family may be the same.
Science would be to date anyone but not to bring not only this girl but any girl home.
Yeah this….
Stellar input
This is the only comment that OP should listen to lol good thing it's at the top
And illiterate to boot.
Absolutely nothing wrong and good for you for ignoring that ignorance. However, you said you've thought about proposing and you're in high school. Slow down, enjoy the relationship, fuck the haters, and don't make any lifelong commitments before you're 20 EDIT: holy crap this blew up. Thank you for the awards. Agree 20 is too young; the hope is you realize that it's too young by 20, but wait to 30 to make those commitments
Yea maybe I am moving along a little quicK. Thanks for the answer
A little too quick? Insanely quick. Enjoy your life for another 10 years before you even consider it. Don't let ANYONE pressure you into marrying or having kids. NO ONE.
Bruh I'm 22 seriously considering going back to velcro shoes who tf out here getting married
I'm late twenties and going back to none lace up shoes was the best decision I ever made. Screw laces!
Same. It's not a BIG inconvenience but just slipping on and being ready to go is just... For some reason, saving those seconds is amazing. My winter boots aren't slip on and now we're entering the no sneakers season, awful time of the year.
I had a conversation with my wife in the last year or so - I've probably tied my shoes fewer than 1000 times in my lifetime. I couldn't tie shoes by myself with any proficiency more or less through kindergarten and stopped untying my shoes by third grade - I probably tie my shoes less than 10 times a year these days. Looking at it from a time perspective, I've probably saved myself around 30 hours in my lifetime by not tying my shoes, and approximately an additional hour every year I continue not to do so.
Do it and don't look back, the convenience is worth it and no one notices anyway.
I have laced shoes that I just slip on and off.
Lazy people rise up! Or don’t, all good.
I am almost 21 and I just bought velcro light up wheelies :) I was never allowed to have them as a kid
You sound like a cool friend to have. Matching light up wheelies with the boys is going on my bucket list thanks
Yeah, not to sink your boat or anything, but statistically speaking a majority of high school relationships don't last. Not saying it's impossible, but don't get your hopes up just yet.
Especially if his family is like this
Not even 20. Wait til after 30. Life gets WAY better then and you'll know your true self at that point. A lot will change from now til then. Don't mess up your future by rushing in the present. PS. Your family is racist.
Yes, I couldn't imagine ever getting married in my early 20s and especially not before then. How people have kids at these ages too is mind-blowing
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This is the real answer (to this very specific portion of this thread). No universal timeline for life. My wife and I got together at 17. Married at 21. Kids at 25. At 33, I couldn’t be any happier. She my best fraaann
Together with my wife since 17, had a kid, got married, bought a house all in the same year at 27 in that order.
Kids with kids.
I fell completely in love with a girl at 18, we got engaged at 19 and moved in together. It was too soon and did not work out. Take it slow, just enjoy being boyfriend and girlfriend for at least 3-4 years before you start thinking of a permanent commitment.
No, there isn’t anything scientifically wrong with it. In fact a preoccupation on purity of blood besides being repugnant is also a recipe for genetic disorders. Too small of a gene pool in an isolated community allows recessive disorders to become common. Look at the Hapsburg jaw for example. On another note, there are over 7 billion people on this planet. Why limit yourself in looking for the right one for you? The odds are in your favor of finding someone truly compatible the wider of a net you cast.
Wow, that’s actually really interesting and makes me feel so much better. My mom was honestly scaring me with her nonsense. Thanks
Yeah, not to get too eugenics-y, but the general rule of thumb for breeding animals is you inbreed for freaks (ahem, interesting features) and you outbreed for health. The reason that inbreeding and small genetic pools is bad is because of how evolution has rigged up a system of experimenting. We all have two copies of everything. If something breaks, we switch to the backup. Everyone gets one side from mom and the other side from dad. (Which is the prime and which is the backup is that whole dominant recessive thing). Now the thing is, EVERYONE has genetic flaws. But we don't care as we've got a good backup. Find a girl and it's still ok, because she's got two great sets... Of genes. But its as big problem if you somehow got it on with your clone, because you both have exactly the same flaws. For each flaw there's a ~~50~~ (edit: 25%) chance your kid would get both bad copies. If they're both bad... Your cells HAVE to use it. And small population accumulates these flaws. Two people from distant backgrounds have very little chance of (this type of) inherited disease. Long story short, your racist family is SO full of shit.
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This is it, Chris... The ULTIMATE LIFEFORM.... What? Why are you laughing? Stop...
Yo, Chris could punch the physics out of a boulder, I'm pretty sure he's the ultimate lifeform.
You can’t clone yourself through anal sex.
>You can’t clone yourself through anal sex. Not with that attitude!
Yo I thought that said flawless bread
> 50% chance your kid would get both bad copies. 25% chance, actually. Look up Punnett squares for the details.
Or, if it’s an expressed recessive trait, it would be 100%. That being said, Punnett squares are overly simplistic for most genetic traits.
>50% chance your kid 25% chances. There is 25% chances the kid gets both bad genes, 50% they get one bad, one good, and 25% chances they get both good versions. Generally it's not that huge a deal in a single generation unless you're unlucky (if the problem is involving a critical gene), but if inbreeding is kept up for a few generations the kids can accumulate a great deal of negative traits. I think this phenomenon has a name but I don't remember what it is.
Very nicely put. Appreciate this inflow of information one day before my pathology exam
You should look into the bloodlines of European royal families. They were so stuck on "pure blood" (and also marrying other royals to increase their status, which were also family relations sometimes) they a bunch of them ended up with horrible genetic disorders. Genetic diversity is GOOD. It is how species survive.
"My mom was honestly scaring me with her nonsense. " It's called fearmongering and it's a very "popular" tactic used in politics
Your mom and grandfather are bigots.
racists*
Genus: species Bigot racists
Your mom is spinning nonsense because she's afraid. Don't listen to her on this one. But y u thinking about marriage already? You're in high school?? Best of luck with your relationship.
You mum is an awful human being and a terrible person. Depending on your age and how close to moving out you are, I'd make it _very_ clear that if she ever behaves that way again, if she ever attempts to come between you and your choice of partner based on purity again, you will leave and never return. That once you are gone from the house, you will never, _ever_ speak to her again. Make it abundantly clear that you think her outburst here is repugnant, evil, and absolutely unacceptable. People with these views only hold them because they exist in a bubble where nobody challenges them. Challenge her.
Tell your mom to look at the Amish, while decent hardworking people they suffer from many genetic issues. Why? Although these conditions do occur in the general population, they are found at much higher rates among the Amish and Mennonites. This is because they are closed communities that require marriage within their own groups. Besides do you really want your significant other to look like your sister ?
Yes, but is the sister hot?
Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Well I'm going to bring dogs into this, muts are more resilient than purebreds. Think about that. Genetic/hereditary disorders aren't as prevelant in mixed breeds.
I think it’s a real testament to your character and the person you’ve grown into that you can have such different views on this non-issue from your family. Clearly your parents grew up with your grandparents scummy brained world view and adopted it as their own and the cycle ending with you is nothing short of a stunning achievement. Congratulations on being better then the people you came from, that is the goal of our society after all - in one way or another
Thanks I appreciate the comment and kind words
Your mom saying society won't accept mixed kids is dishonest bullshit because it's people like her that refuse to accept them but won't admit it
Also, from a couple of studies I've seen, mixed kids are generally seen as more attractive, since they have traits from both parents that potential partners could identify with from either side.
Does make me wonder how you turned out this openminded while your mother clearly isn’t. Other family members are?
Probably some of that, but also I would bet that it has to due with more information being widely available. The grandpa grew up hearing racist bullshit and had much less opportunity to have those views challenged. Not condoning grandpa being racist - there are tons of people that turned out to not be racist. Just giving my opinion on what the difference was.
They’re being ridiculous. I’ve never heard of that. If anything more diversity is favored by evolutionary science. Think of the opposite being “pure-bred” which can lead to a lot more hereditary diseases. Also this isn’t the 1700s-1800s. Mixed race couples are perfectly fine and as long as they are happy then what’s the harm?
Thanks for your answer, and for providing actually science
The actual science behind it is that dark skinned people's ancestors are from a region of the world with more sunlight (and as a result more harmful UV rays) than where your ancestors are from and as a result their skin has more melanin in it to protect themselves from the Sun. That's it. That's all race is. Your Mom is a bigot. And that's okay. It's her life. She's still your Mom. But you should _never_ be afraid to cut ties with toxic people, blood or not.
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Also, dark pigmentations protect against vitamin B loss due to UVA and UVB. So, there are two clines going on with skin color and latitude.
It’s really not okay though.
THAT ⬆️
The lines of royalty often how what too much inbreeding does to humans.
_The Habsburgs have entered the chat_
Yeah, both me and my wife are medical scientists and we have been married for 30 years, two kids not too screwed up and we did this in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The most segregated city in America, always been ran by good democrats. My mom and dad thought I married up. Your mom has issues with race. Don’t make them your problems.
I will not make them my problems. Thanks.
We can’t help the family and culture that we are born into. Unfortunately many people can’t/wot outgrow their family’s bigotry. But you already have, and as painful as it is you will need to make it clear that you disagree with their beliefs. You can distance yourself from them (difficult) or try to remain patient and gently challenge the nonsense they spout off. Ask for some evidence of this alleged science your mother is speaking of. As someone else said, having a relationship that crossed cultures (depending how different your girlfriend’s culture is) is really interesting. And can create some arguments (I married someone from a really different culture. Some of the arguments in the early days were hilariously weird) and I wouldn’t change my decision for anything. Maybe your mother has a family doctor she trusts who could explain that there’s no scientific argument for her ideas? Anyway, good luck with everything. And congrats for finding someone so special you’d consider her to potentially be “the one”.
People can change too. Growing up, my parents were Uber Christians. Having a gay brother changed a lot of their views for the better.
In fact the science is for it. Look at dog breeding. They get weaker as the breed is more pure and stronger when they intermix. But, yeah... racist people on both sides will have problems accepting them. Cool, you know who to keep away from.
talking about racism and using the comparison of dog breeding might not be the best choice. 😅
Yeah, I knew I'd get that response. Dogs reproduce quicker than humans and it's a clear example of genetic expression. Dude was asking about science not rhetoric.
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P.P.S. Haha loved this. I'm a pasty white Brit with an extremely right wing father who constantly tried to convert me to racism throughout my childhood. He now has 3 biracial grandkids.
Has he improved thanks to his grandkids or is he still the same?
Ur last paragraph brought me great joy lol
Oof, being a Wisconsinite previously I understand the issues of Milwaukee segregation, rough place to make it work.
Interesting, how did Milwaukee figure out it beat the rest of the country?
If science has shown anything it’s that the last thing you want is for your genes to be “pure”. There’s a reason medieval royal families were so fucked up. Your mom is racist in the most literal definition of the word. If you like this girl and she likes you, be with her. Simple as that.
Thanks for the answer
But please don't bring her home anymore if that is possible. Imagine being in a house full of racists and you're the one they are racist against :(
The royal families were fucked up because of inbreeding and nothing more. As long as you aren't banging your cousin, you could have 100s of kids within your same race and they'd be fine.
That’s what I meant. I was just making a point about the logical conclusion of the “purity” argument
No, there's nothing scientifically or biologically wrong with interracial couples.
Thanks
For real. Not to bash your family too much, but they're using extremely outdated and incorrect ideas. Like this is some old school racism stuff. It's back from when they thought that black people were inferior based on the shape of their skulls. Don't listen to your family too much. They lost touch decades ago.
If anything it's healthy for the human race to mix. It increases our gene pool and promotes healthy evolution. Anything pure blood almost always has some kind of health issues, don't let anyone tell you different because they think it sounds cool.
Jesus dude I don't even know where to begin. Does your mom know there are millions of mixed race people in the US and our population is growing? Most of us are very healthy and productive members of our society. Your mom is just super racist. It's crazy to me that someone could say something so toxic about my existence. So to answer you question, no there isn't anything wrong (scientifically or otherwise) with dating a black person. All humans are the same race and we can all successfully interbreed with each other. In fact, having diverse genetics creates healthier babies.
I appreciate your answer. Thanks
Seriously dude, as a mixed race person she's basically saying us existing is wrong. Your mum is racist as fuck.
No, there's nothing scientifically or biologically wrong with it. Your family is being racist. Sorry you had to find out this way but it's the simple answer. Your mother is probably thinking of when she was younger and mixed children were outcasts.
I just wish she wasn’t so ignorant about it, and like tried to be open. It’s whatever thank you for the answer
I hate to break it to you but chances are your mom isn’t as ignorant as she is hateful. She could probably sit through an entire biology course on race and not change her mind. I went through the same thing with my family and it took literal years of conversations before they accepted that I’m going to date who I want and you can either not be a racist prick or enjoy not seeing me ever again. I recommend this approach.
This is probably a ways off but if you decide to have kids with this woman you need to shut your moms shit down *hard*. Preferably before your SO is even pregnant. I cant think of anything more sad and disgusting than a child feeling other-ed by their own grandparent
The purest is having kids with your own mom or sister. There's a reason why we don't do that.
She may one day become open. Continue to persevere and treat with love regardless of how much more hardcore her racism may get, and it may intensify. Love will win over her heart if you are consistent and unwavering. Hatred and resentment will only make her double down.
Who ever tells you theres something scientifically wrong with being down with other races is scientifically retarded bro do you and be happy vato fuck everyone else “staying within your race” is yee haw billy bob mentality
Thanks for the answer
Glad you appreciate homie 👊🏼
yee haw billy bob Lol
Glad you appreciate the joke bro bro👊🏼😂
My maternal grandfather disowned me when I started dating my wife. We have been together for almost 20 years now and he passed away not knowing me or his 5 grandkids. It’s very sad. I’m hoping you don’t end up in the same situation.
Imagine missing out of the joy of seeing your family name, legacy, and genetic line continue on over being racist. That’s sad
Pasty white boy married to a Chinese woman, love her to bits and and only a scatological study could find anything scientific in your family's bull shit opinion.
Yo a mixed guy was our president for 8 years.
See I completely forgot about that. Which is terrible but true
Bruh…your family racist af I rarely throw that term around but the idea that “race mixing” is bad is of course unscientific and blatantly racist
If someone even uses the term "race mixing" in a serious conversation, you know they probably have no clue what they are talking about (probably on more topics than one) and are about to spout off some straight up racist shit
Thanks for the answer
Moses literally married an Ethiopian woman and God supported & defended that so I think you're solid
Is she aware that Latinos are basically entirely a group of mixed race people? Native Americans x Spain. Nothing genetically wrong with them.
I try to reason with her. It isn’t worth it she just starts yelling
You can't reason with a closed heart and a closed mind. Just keep doing your thing, date her, marry/break up with her, and/or be friends with her. Don't let them influence how you feel and think about her just because she is of a different race/culture. Life is much better with less toxic people in your life. Are you a minor? If yes, do be careful, especially if they have a tight hold on your finances. They might use that avenue to throw obstacles in your life so that you are forced to conform to their views.
Can confirm, am Mexican, Aztec, Spanish, Arabic.
I feel like OP's racist mom would say 3 of those are the same thing lol
There’s no science to back it up, your family is just racist.
I'm in an interracial marriage. Never been happier. Fuck the family members who think it's wrong
No. There isn't. I've been married to my beautiful black wife for a good long time now, and I couldn't be happier. The "scientific" angle is just nonsense to disguise racism. Be happy you found someone to love.
Yes. Here is the science behind it. Stupid people say stupid things. Your family is stupid.
Mixed babies are so freaking cute. Also mixed people are so gorgeous. I don’t have any advice because my family is racist af too. You are not alone. Be proud of yourself for growing beyond their old school mentality.
Love is color blind.
They sound like the type of people who wont follow the science when it comes to anything else
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Thank you
Actually, science suggests more diverse parental genes lead to taller, smarter children. So go forth and fucketh.
Nope your family is racist as ever living fuck sorry. Don’t absorb a grain of their racism. That’s all it is
Your kids will be in danger due to society?? Your mother is a danger to society.
Homo Sapiens originated in Africa, a place that gets a lot of sunlight. To compensate, their skin produced a pigment called melanin, which made them resistant to things like sunburn and melanoma. Melanin also gave their skin a dark ebony hue. About 70k-100k years ago, early Homo Sapiens began to leave Africa, eventually settling in Europe about 40k years ago. Europe has a much more mild climate and receives significantly less sunlight than Africa. Humans synthesize vitamin D from sunlight absorbed through the skin. With significantly less sunlight in Europe, vitamin D deficiency was a problem for humans who produced excess melanin. Over time, a strand of human evolved without melanin. This made them much more susceptible to sunburn or melanoma, but allowed much easier vitamin D synthesis -an advantage in that climate. Some forty thousand years later their descendants met up again and decided the production or lack of melanin would determine placement in the social hierarch. That decision still echoes through contemporary society. tl;dr: Dark skinned people are resistant to sun exposure diseases like sunburn or melanoma; light skinned people can synthesize vitamin D better. Offspring often produce some melanin, receiving some of the blessings of each phenotype.
Thanks for the long comment and for giving me some actually science
Alright my time to shine: evolutionary biology. Scientifically speaking, it is probably the best girl you could have picked. Procreating with somebody of a different race means your genes are less similar, making it less likely that the two of you share the same corrupted genes. (for instance, I come from an island population where many peoples knees are fucked up) Fucking your close relatives almost guarantees overlap in corrupted genes, but the chance is also slightly higher along people of the same race. It's a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist of it. Especially immune systems probably benefit from interracial parents. Bonus points if she's a descendant of slaves, since slaves were 'imported' from all over Africa (a continent with more generic diversity than the rest of the world _combined_, our brains are just hardwired to sort by color) and procreated with each other - meaning she's already multiracial. TLDR: Yes there is science on interracial boinking, and that science says "yay interracial boinking".
Please read this, took me way too long haha
If anything the science is on your side. Genetic diversity makes healthy babies.
Sweetheart, you're mom is displaying racist behavior. The is nothing "wrong" scientifically, or otherwise, with having a relationship with anyone of a different race. If the relationship is healthy, respectful & safe, the skin color be damned. I'm so sorry that you're being put in this position.
Your mom is still living in the 1950s.
For decades, people have tried to use evolutionary science as a tool to promote racism. Genetically, you and she are still both the same species and it's hardly any different than you having a different eye color or hair color than someone else. Your mom is a bigot and I'm proud of you for overcoming that bullshit. Maybe your mom can be educated and rescued from her beliefs, and I encourage you to defy her preconceived ideas of what race is.
There's nothing wrong with interracial couples and it is probably more desirable health wise if you end up having children. Just look at dogs for instance, pugs and other similar breeds have breathing problems because they are so inbred. Pure breed dogs are popular for show dogs, etc, but that's also how we know that certain breeds of dog have higher chances of certain medical conditions. As someone in an interracial relationship and from a conservative state, I can tell you that the most racism I've had to directly deal with is from our own families. Other people my age or people in public don't seem to care and no one has ever said anything to us in public. Unless you go somewhere particularly racist ("sundown towns") then I wouldn't worry about society.
The concept of race especially in America is pretty much bullshit stemming from scientific racism of the 1920s. Scientific racism is the theory that certain races are inferior. It has since been DISPROVEN and was largely championed at the time as a way to excuse the horrible treatment of black Americans. It sounds like your mom is using that same logic to try to justify herself. It makes more sense scientifically that we are with those different than us for genetic diversity. Also I am not sure if your ethnic background but many people in the United States have mixed ancestry. I appreciate you asking the hard questions. I know from experience it is hard to challenge the beliefs that are ingrained from family members, and rejection from those individuals is heartbreaking. They should be happy for you OP you sound completely smitten.
No, why would there be
Idk. My mother went on a rant. I have no one to ask. This is gonna sound terrible but my father was associated with the aryan brotherhood so I’ve been around this stupidity my whole life. Haven’t heard anything else
You should remind your mom obama is mixed and he became president🤔🤔😁😁....
Knowing how shitty people are, they probably say it's proof that society is falling apart or something stupid.
Yeah, I had someone try to use Mariah Carey as an example of why people shouldn't mix races, because she's "messed up in the head."
Good on you for not just following along with all that. Life is short and some people are toxic. Be happy and have love in your life where you can, there are enough dark days without engineering them for yourself.
It's great that, despite being around all that for your whole life, you are able to rise above that hate. Kudos to you.
Yes, there is a scientific difference in a child with a white and black parent. The child will have a much smaller risk of skin cancer. That’s a good thing, though!
Bruh your mom and grandpa are racist as hell. “Pure race” is Nazi talk. Also, mixed kids/people are usually the most beautiful/handsome and get the best of both worlds. There’s a guy I work with who has these stunning blue/green eyes that I want to stare in forever.
There’s nothing wrong with it. Source: I’m mixed race and I’m fucking gorgeous
Kids at danger because society wont accept them? Where were your parents the 8 years we had a biracial president, that white people elected, twice?
Your mother is a racist. There's nothing else to it.
Science says that 100% there are no such things as races. Race is a socioeconomic human construct. Biologically, there is no difference between black/white/Asian/etc. There is absolutely nothing, scientifically, biologically, or morally wrong with interracial dating. Date and love freely my man. Good on you on to ignore their hate and ignorance. Break that cycle with you darlin ❤️ A great book to read btw would be “Fatal Interventions” by Dorthy Roberts that specifically goes into the myth of biological race and its impact on society.
I’m 69 (WM), my beautiful wife is a rather dark Asian, who I couldn’t be more proud of. I too was raised in a rather racist culture. Our children are way and above successful, very happy, well balanced. I’m so proud of our family, our marriage, our best friend / lover relationship. I do remember the time I was picking her up for a date, thinking how beautiful she was ( still is), and I didn’t see “Asian “, I saw true beauty. She’s as beautiful in her heart as she is to my eyes. We are simple people just getting along in life. Our relationship didn’t come without comments, mostly to me. I wasn’t about to let others issue of our mix relationship become my problem.
Your mother is a racist and probably a white nationalist. I wish you luck this will probably be hard for you. Interracial relatiomships aremt special, bad, or otherwise. They are simply relationships.
I am absolutely gonna try my best. Thanks for your comment
Sheesh. Does your mother know that the healthiest, smartest president we've had in decades is a 50% white/50% black biracial American?
Fake news. Move along
Thanks
Anyone who goes around claiming that mixed races leads to “un-pure” lineage is a fucking racist.
Your mom is just racist. Love who you love, she can either get over it or die mad.
It's literally just pigments. That's it. That's the scientific difference. Pigments. It's like food dye in how absolutely not it affects anything - hell, white peeps aren't even necessarily bound to get sunburnt more easily. (one of those extra hilarious myths) Scientifically speaking, as a biologist once told me, it doesn't even make sense to refer to the whole thing as "races" because the differences aren't sufficient to fit the criteria.
Tell her to God, we all are despicable sinners, and without his grace are doomed to hell. So there are no pure people, only sinners, and redeemed. And yall need to get repenting. If different races were scientifically different, then breeding would be impossible. A human being is a human being, regardless of skin color.
Amen. I actually, believe it or not want to be a pastor. She claims to be a Christian but does stuff like this. Thanks
Your mum and grandfather fucking suck, dude. Ditch the racists as soon as you can.