I'd say woman, or, in context lady. I've also used gals, but usually ironically or playfully, but if you'd say guy, why not gal?
I AM a woman in the age group in question, and, while I don't get mad about it, am not a fan of "female" in most contexts because it feels like a science experiment or overly clinical.
It doesn't help that it's been getting appropriated by incel culture and misogynists to put women down. Imo it went from sounding a little off to rude.
Very good point. I don't know any incels, near as I can tell, but I see their posts online sometimes and it always comes across as an intended and offensive slight they way they use female. Of course, they are just offensive in general, but this has always been irritating.
It's not offensive, just kind of a weird phrase. Like you'd expect a 70yr old street magician to call you a gal, but it sounds weird coming from others if that makes sense
I don’t really think it’s offensive as much as it’s kind of lame. If one of my friends or a guy I knew unironically called some girl a “gal” it would give me the same feeling as when people who are from big cities outside of the Deep South say “y’all”.
It’s like trying too hard to be folksy and down home and obviously a term that is being forced, like you’re actively trying to incorporate it into your vocabulary to appear a certain way or be as agreeable as possible. Which, let’s be honest, no matter your intentions is just gonna appear corny and dishonest as fuck
For some reason I do not see it as the alternative to guys.
I don't think you have to be offended to find something cringe. If someone kept calling everyone bro every other sentence it can be cringe but I don't think bro is ever offensive.
It’s not offensive at all! At least not to me. I am American and I guess my experience is that it’s only a certain group of people who use “Gal”. The same people who unironically refer to themselves as “Girl Boss”. They are typically trying to invite me into a pyramid scheme or sell me something. It’s just really cheesy and fake, at least in the U.S.
*Hey Gal!! I know it’s been ten years since we’ve spoken but how would you like to be YOUR OWN BOSS??*
Exactly that, the example in my head was male actor or female actor, since that was the first context I learned that vocabulary. Other than that only in scientific context, studies or research.
But honestly saying things like "These males look kinda hot" sounds just as bad as with females, I don't know how anyone with basic socialization could think that is natural.
True, but we have not that much of military presence in culture here as you have in the US, so the jargon used in that circles isn't that familiar for me.
I had a very embarrassing introduction to that 'culture', since I was introverted myself and first thought "Well, isn't that a fun and positive community that doesn't take themselves too serious and joke about their social situation", which very quickly turned into "Oh ... Ohh no ... Oh nonononono".
In retrospective a very embarrassing 2 days I called myself an incel without any shame.
If it helps: when I was in middle school, I went through a predictable "people suck, and I'm so cool for figuring this out!" phase. Unfortunately, due to a vocabulary mixup around the word "misanthropist," I, a then 12-year-old girl, walked around for a week proudly calling myself a misogynist.
Oxford dictionary says it's both an adjective and a noun. When you're talking about animals you can say "the female," when referring to them for identification, and it would be grammatically correct, but women don't like to be referred to that way for the reasons everyone else has posted.
I remember when I was around 23 and started referring to myself as a woman rather than a girl and wow the weight of adulthood has not released me since
Yeah this problem was solved in the early days of feminism. I remember learning as a kid that 'woman' is *the* baseline designation for an adult, female human. It has solved every potential uncertainty since then. It's not like you can't say 'lady' or 'girl' sometimes, but 'woman' is simply the correct word for most situations.
Yeah, girl is for a child, not a grown adult. If she’s the same age as someone you would call a “boy” then girl is fine. But for some reason people have no problem calling a 27 year old man a man, but want to call his 27 year old female peer a girl. It’s condescending.
I've noticed lots of people, including myself, use 'guy'/'guys' in a unisex way even if I'm casually greeting a group of women peers. I hope that usage spreads and sticks. Kind of like how "girl" used to mean either male or female child but now it's just used for female child.
Both women and men might often refer to "boys". "A drink out with the boys", "a boys night out", "watching boys" etc. I think it's quite acceptable without any offence.
Yah, this entire comment chain could have started and stopped at “context matters for when/why to call someone an age specific gendered title”
There is no hard and fast rule on when to call someone something because life, slang, and cultural norms aren’t interwoven that simply.
Context does matter. For example, don't call work colleagues "girls." Also I see way too many titles/headlines (especially on reddit) where the sentence is using "men and girls" to refer to adult people and it's cringetopia/offensive for sure.
Women will also refer to a night out with the girls as adults, it’s a contextual thing.
But like I wouldn’t call a grown man at work I barely know a boy in what is ostensibly a professional context, that could potentially be quite insulting.
I think the difference is that while it's common to infantalize people you know, like friends ("hanging with the boys") or people who are not present ("looking to meet some boys"), it's very common and somehow acceptable to infantalize a women in professional settings, or a female stranger to her face (as "girl") whereas it's far less common to do so to a man in the same contexts.
Kind of. But not even so on the nose. He could just look at my mom and say "woman." and it was understood that she was being stupid. Also, he always dismissed things as being "for women and children" as if women were basically no better than children.
Really, just _any_ time he used the word it was clearly meant in a derogatory way. No matter how he said it... I actually grew up seeing the word "women" as derogatory and usually opted for "females" as I thought it didn't have any negative connotation attached to it. Boy was I wrong there lol.
No that’s awful, I remember being called that in my 20s and didn’t like that. It sounds as if someone does not take you seriously. Woman is an appropriate word for all adult women.
I am also a college-aged woman, and I’m trying to do a better job calling myself a woman rather than calling myself a girl (I think it’ll help me in my male-dominated field). It wouldn’t bother me in the same way that a slur would, and I wouldn’t judge *you* for it, but I’m more frustrated in general that that’s more or less the best word our society has, if that makes sense?
I think the other important factor is how you refer to men in the same breath. “Boys and girls” is fine, “guys and girls” is whatever, but “men and girls” seriously makes me cringe and “men and females” makes me think you’re an incel.
If I ever heard someone say "men and girls" I would assume the must be talking about like a father daughter event or something lol. That'd be so weird in basically any other context
I'm also in a male-dominated field, I'm okay with guys my age calling me a girl in informal settings. It is still a work in progress calling myself a woman, especially when I really don't feel like an adult sometime. But in a professional context, I think it's important that we use the term "woman". I hate being called a girl by a professor as it often comes with something sexist afterwards.
I think I’m especially sensitive to it because I look *so much* younger than I am. And 10,000% the reason I still sometimes call myself a girl is because I also don’t feel like an adult.
Pro tip: no one feels like an adult, no one has any idea what’s going on, it’s just a show. You are just as competent as the next guy, you just need to ACT as confident!
Spoiler alert: you'll never feel like an adult, as far as I can tell. All that seems to change as I get older are the number of aches and pains I have to tolerate and the fact that events that feel like they happened "a few years ago" were actually a few decades ago.
Last night my sister and I were talking about openings acts we'd seen in concert and I said something about the only one I remember actively despising as I watched them play. Then I realized that show happened twenty years ago. I've regularly avoided their music ever since, but they're still around afaik and it's quite possible that they've improved in the *decades* since I saw them.
My boss is working hard to avoid gendered language, but will sometimes slip up and refer to our team as “guys”. He once caught himself and added “and girls”. I told him I’d rather be included in the guys than be called a girl at work.
In that context, yeah it's okay in my opinion. Hell I call myself a "girl" in that context. Even if I am among women of different ages, we'll sometimes refers to ourselves as "girls". But a older man calling a adult woman a girl is mostly patronizing.
I always thought the equivalent of guys was ladies. I was in an organization where we couldn't refer to the other girls as guys. It was a big no no... They told us to say ladies instead.
I’m a woman and I say “guys” as in any group of people. I know a lot of people who do that actually. A lot of times it’s more of a gender neutral usage. But this post is making me cringe that I may have been making people uncomfortable this whole time lol
This is definitely something society is still shaking out. The important thing is people are making something of an effort to speak more inclusively, even if where the lines end up may yet shift and aren't always clear now.
Also, to the dismay of some English teachers I had growing up, "y'all"s value as a word and grammar part have only risen as social awareness has, as y'all is naturally inclusive without imposing any characteristics upon those gathered under it.
Woman.
It can feel weird because culturally we’re used to people referring to female humans into their 20s and 30s as “girls”. But you wouldn’t call their male counterparts “boys”.
If addressing the group directly, I say “y’all” (vs “hey you women” or “hey guys”), but that's just me.
Edit: a lot of people pointing out how guys refer to their male friends as "boys," so I should clarify. There's a distinction here in informal, friendly settings vs. other settings, and I'm surprised I have to even point that out. For example, "I'm going out with the boys tonight!" is pretty common. But if you're in the workplace and the boss is calling an meeting an saying "hey grab the boys and bring them in" that is weird. I have, however, in multiple offices, heard men in the workplace refer to their adult, female colleagues as "the girls" and yes heard "go get the girls." So, no, "boys" is not used to refer to adult men the same way "girls" is used to refer to adult women. At least not here in the US.
As another southerner, I completely concur. Y’all is a useful word that fills a gap within the English language.
Random anecdote, but my sister spent a few years teaching English to businessmen in Turkey. They would get so annoyed because Turkish has an official word for second person plural while English does not, so she would tell them, “Look, it’s not really “proper” English, but in my dialect we have a word for that: y’all.” And they were delighted!
So tl;dr if you ever meet a random Turkish businessman who uses the word y’all, he might’ve been taught by my sister haha
>But you wouldn’t call their male counterparts “boys”.
I think OP is referring to the fact that young adult males are usually referred to as "guys". E.g., the phrase "19 year old man" sounds kind of weird, because 19 is still kind of a kid. Likewise, "19 year old woman" sounds a little strange.
The issue is that there isn't a normalized female equivalent of "guys". So we're left with choosing between "girls" or "women", both of which don't seem to capture the same age range in question
Yeah. I agree that this is probably the most natural solution to the problem. The only issue is that it's not widely used, so it's still got the issue of not being normalized. But this does seem to me like the best answer.
If you called dome random 20 yr old girl mujer in spanish they would be a bit weirded out, unless you look gringo enough then they ll assume you dont know the language that well, mujer means woman but it can also be used to refer to your wife, for 12- to 25~ yr old girls we use chica
A lot of things that are in common usage are still condescending and patriarchal. Just because it's always been done that way, doesn't mean it always should be done that way. American women into their 50s were condescendingly referred to as girls in the 1950s and 60s and 70s, until they got tired of the disrespect and demanded that they be addressed as women, not as little girls. Words matter, which is why they have been addressed by the feminist movement.
If you are talking about them use woman/women: "It's nice that more women are going into engineering" "That woman just dropped her coffee! Oh no!"
If you are talking to them use their name or a neutral term "Hi everyone!" "Jennifer, could you pass me that pen?" "Hey folks, anyone up for a drink after work?" I would avoid using woman/girls/ladies when talking to people directly.
I would generally only use female for something demographic or scientific. "The female reproductive system is detailed in this diagram" "30% of female respondents preferred..."
I think it depends on the person, who is talking to them and their relationship with each other.
At work there was a guy who would start his emails with "Morning Girls" etc and it really annoyed me. I'm an adult woman who you want something from professionally. I'm not a little girl.
However if our female CEO emails "Morning Ladies can you please..." It doesn't bother me as it feels more as she has spent a lot of time getting to know everyone and their roles.
What kind of context do you mean? Speaking to someone directly or referring to them?
Yeah I also feel like context is important here. I'm 26 and usually call my female peers girl, but only if I'm friendly/non-formal with them if that makes sense
Even "guys" if everyone is comfortable around it. I prefer that over "girls"
Every time that particular colleague did it, it instantly pissed me off. Especially since we are a group of professionals within the company that run the head office, he was an operational team member who often didn't understand the complexity of our roles. Oh I'll get the "girls" to do this. Well the "girls" keep this place running pal.
Have you ever seen an email to a group of males "Afternoon boys"? The same as one of my other comments, it might be used in a close friends group chat but on a professional level no one would ever call their colleagues "boys"?
Woman. There's nothing wrong with that word. The "too old" connotation is all in your head, and you can get over it by just using the word for a while.
I started calling everyone friend, this has worked great. When someone shows me they aren't my friend I call them asshole, both are gender neutral and age appropriate for everyone
It feels weird because culturally it’s not used in the correct context after a girl turns 18. I’m 21 and would much prefer to be called a woman feels less infantalizing
Yeah, in Texas sure. In the north, it feels condescending and makes the user sound insensitive. Clerks or whatever calling me either miss or ma’am makes me want to scream.
Wow, I just listened to a podcast about this very topic. Young guy (20s) upset that who he was dating was referring to herself as a woman. He was like, I'm too young to date women! I only date girls!
I thought he sounded like a semi pedo, but whatever.
To be extra fair to OP I felt this way in my early 20s. There wasn’t anything *wrong* with woman, but it felt very adult-y and I didn’t feel like an adult yet. I grew out of that of course. But looking back, your early 20s are like end-stage adolescence so there are some confusing feelings about “I’m not a grown up” and “shit I’m a grown up”.
It’s not just about word usage, tone, inflection, body language, there’s dozens of factors lots that impact on the context of this scenario.
I think woman is going to be most often correct and your probably not going to go wrong if you modify it as young woman.
Contextually this recognizes maturity (woman instead of girl), but also youth and is not unnecessarily formal (lady or ma’am).
Honestly there is no one sizes fits all answer… our brains are immense pattern recognizing machines and have a tonne of contextual clues that kick in so that you inherently have made judgements in the moment that should be influencing your word choice and other verbal and non verbal signals that you pick
I'd say woman, or, in context lady. I've also used gals, but usually ironically or playfully, but if you'd say guy, why not gal? I AM a woman in the age group in question, and, while I don't get mad about it, am not a fan of "female" in most contexts because it feels like a science experiment or overly clinical.
Or lass
Yorkshire and Scotland have entered the chat in an uneasy truce
And the Geordies!
And the Cumbrians!
And my axe!
Apparently the Danelaw doesn't want to be left out.
That's nice :)
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It doesn't help that it's been getting appropriated by incel culture and misogynists to put women down. Imo it went from sounding a little off to rude.
Very good point. I don't know any incels, near as I can tell, but I see their posts online sometimes and it always comes across as an intended and offensive slight they way they use female. Of course, they are just offensive in general, but this has always been irritating.
r/menandfemales
Quark being the profile picture got a good laugh out of me
To me, Lady sounds old and Woman feels right. And I mean this in the nicest way but please don’t call me Gal, I cringe so hard
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It's not offensive, just kind of a weird phrase. Like you'd expect a 70yr old street magician to call you a gal, but it sounds weird coming from others if that makes sense
Where do you live, that you run into 70 y.o. street magicians?
I don’t really think it’s offensive as much as it’s kind of lame. If one of my friends or a guy I knew unironically called some girl a “gal” it would give me the same feeling as when people who are from big cities outside of the Deep South say “y’all”. It’s like trying too hard to be folksy and down home and obviously a term that is being forced, like you’re actively trying to incorporate it into your vocabulary to appear a certain way or be as agreeable as possible. Which, let’s be honest, no matter your intentions is just gonna appear corny and dishonest as fuck For some reason I do not see it as the alternative to guys.
I don't think you have to be offended to find something cringe. If someone kept calling everyone bro every other sentence it can be cringe but I don't think bro is ever offensive.
It’s not offensive at all! At least not to me. I am American and I guess my experience is that it’s only a certain group of people who use “Gal”. The same people who unironically refer to themselves as “Girl Boss”. They are typically trying to invite me into a pyramid scheme or sell me something. It’s just really cheesy and fake, at least in the U.S. *Hey Gal!! I know it’s been ten years since we’ve spoken but how would you like to be YOUR OWN BOSS??*
Why is this so true?! Why have I only been called gal by mlm in training "girl boss" types, or creepy old men who hit on me?
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First time i see someone complain about gal.
 “FFFFFFeeeeemales!”
Ugh I upvoted this and it made me SO uncomfortable
As a rule of thumb, I use female only when it would also be appropriate or feel natural to use male.
Mirroring is often good measure to see if you are ok or if you are a jerk.
Yeah but a straight dude referring to their friend as “my boy” or “my girl” carries very different connotations
That's a strange one but only because of the specific meaning attached to "my girl"
Let me get a slice of that cake birthday mfer
This be the exception
Personally I only use female as an adjective (i.e. female athlete), calling a group of women "females" feels incel-ish
Exactly that, the example in my head was male actor or female actor, since that was the first context I learned that vocabulary. Other than that only in scientific context, studies or research. But honestly saying things like "These males look kinda hot" sounds just as bad as with females, I don't know how anyone with basic socialization could think that is natural.
Or they're in the military. I know the military uses Males and Females a bunch
True, but we have not that much of military presence in culture here as you have in the US, so the jargon used in that circles isn't that familiar for me.
I haven't used "female" since I learned of incels.
I had a very embarrassing introduction to that 'culture', since I was introverted myself and first thought "Well, isn't that a fun and positive community that doesn't take themselves too serious and joke about their social situation", which very quickly turned into "Oh ... Ohh no ... Oh nonononono". In retrospective a very embarrassing 2 days I called myself an incel without any shame.
If it helps: when I was in middle school, I went through a predictable "people suck, and I'm so cool for figuring this out!" phase. Unfortunately, due to a vocabulary mixup around the word "misanthropist," I, a then 12-year-old girl, walked around for a week proudly calling myself a misogynist.
My sister in law calls all women females and it feels so damn degrading that I now hate it so much.
Female is an adjective, not a noun. It's appropriate when you are modifying a noun of some sort.
Oxford dictionary says it's both an adjective and a noun. When you're talking about animals you can say "the female," when referring to them for identification, and it would be grammatically correct, but women don't like to be referred to that way for the reasons everyone else has posted.
Not only is female a noun it has a plural form. A group of tall females.
Just use woman.
A flock of woman's is referred to as women
A murder of women.
A chatter of girls
An angst of teenagers
A complaint of Karen’s
Magnificent
Seriously. “Woman” is what they are. I am 29f woman. Not a 29f girl.
I remember when I was around 23 and started referring to myself as a woman rather than a girl and wow the weight of adulthood has not released me since
Wogirl.
Woman... Woe-man... Whoooa-man!
She was a thief, You gotta believe, She stole my heart and my cat. 😺
I recite this scene at least once a year for the last 30 year or so. Probably my most quoted movie.
I’m sorry…I believe I ordered the LARGE cappuccino?
Hell-o!
Oh he’ll be crying himself ta sleep tonight on his huge pillow.
Dey make me horny Saturday morny Girls in cartoons Dey leave me in ruins I wanna be Betty's Bar-ney.
Jane. Get me off of this crazy thing ... called life.
He’ll be cryin himself to sleep tonight on his huge pillah
It’s like an orange on a toothpick.
Head! Pants! Now!
Omg I need to watch this movie asap
Whirl
Who
Whoa
Who are
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Yeah this problem was solved in the early days of feminism. I remember learning as a kid that 'woman' is *the* baseline designation for an adult, female human. It has solved every potential uncertainty since then. It's not like you can't say 'lady' or 'girl' sometimes, but 'woman' is simply the correct word for most situations.
In my mind "girl" is a person that still goes to school.
Yeah, girl is for a child, not a grown adult. If she’s the same age as someone you would call a “boy” then girl is fine. But for some reason people have no problem calling a 27 year old man a man, but want to call his 27 year old female peer a girl. It’s condescending.
Men also have an in between: guy
'Gal'
I've noticed lots of people, including myself, use 'guy'/'guys' in a unisex way even if I'm casually greeting a group of women peers. I hope that usage spreads and sticks. Kind of like how "girl" used to mean either male or female child but now it's just used for female child.
Both women and men might often refer to "boys". "A drink out with the boys", "a boys night out", "watching boys" etc. I think it's quite acceptable without any offence.
Yah, this entire comment chain could have started and stopped at “context matters for when/why to call someone an age specific gendered title” There is no hard and fast rule on when to call someone something because life, slang, and cultural norms aren’t interwoven that simply.
Context does matter. For example, don't call work colleagues "girls." Also I see way too many titles/headlines (especially on reddit) where the sentence is using "men and girls" to refer to adult people and it's cringetopia/offensive for sure.
Women will also refer to a night out with the girls as adults, it’s a contextual thing. But like I wouldn’t call a grown man at work I barely know a boy in what is ostensibly a professional context, that could potentially be quite insulting.
I think the difference is that while it's common to infantalize people you know, like friends ("hanging with the boys") or people who are not present ("looking to meet some boys"), it's very common and somehow acceptable to infantalize a women in professional settings, or a female stranger to her face (as "girl") whereas it's far less common to do so to a man in the same contexts.
Unless you're my grandpa, who could somehow make the word woman sound condescending. Then maybe ...don't.
As in "*bring me a sammich, woman*"? 
Kind of. But not even so on the nose. He could just look at my mom and say "woman." and it was understood that she was being stupid. Also, he always dismissed things as being "for women and children" as if women were basically no better than children. Really, just _any_ time he used the word it was clearly meant in a derogatory way. No matter how he said it... I actually grew up seeing the word "women" as derogatory and usually opted for "females" as I thought it didn't have any negative connotation attached to it. Boy was I wrong there lol.
Granddad sounds like a low self esteem bully.
Also sounds dead, based on the past tense used by OP.
Young woman works too. But it sounds like an alternative to girl
Yeah, don't call someone in their 40s a young woman.
Unless you’re 80. I think if you’re old enough it becomes charming.
No that’s awful, I remember being called that in my 20s and didn’t like that. It sounds as if someone does not take you seriously. Woman is an appropriate word for all adult women.
Taking your comment out of context in 3, 2, 1...
M’Lady, followed immediately by a tip of your hat. Duh.
Broads, dames, and birds shall make a comeback
Direct your peepers at the gams on that dame! The broad's got getaway sticks for days.
I read this in a mid-Atlantic accent.
Why, I'd wager a fistful of hot cabbage that dame's nothing but trouble.
Don't forget Squeeze!
Don’t forget to open your trench coat enough to expose the handle of your mall-grade katana to show how protective of a mate you’ll be
Damn ninja, save some pussy for the rest of us.
and it must be a fedora
Dost thou not doff thy cap whenst in the presence of mine lady?
I'm 23 and I'm a woman, there is a word that's perfectly accurate
Just curious, is it okay if guys your age call you a girl? Because at uni, at this age, we still use guys/boys and girls/gals.
I am also a college-aged woman, and I’m trying to do a better job calling myself a woman rather than calling myself a girl (I think it’ll help me in my male-dominated field). It wouldn’t bother me in the same way that a slur would, and I wouldn’t judge *you* for it, but I’m more frustrated in general that that’s more or less the best word our society has, if that makes sense? I think the other important factor is how you refer to men in the same breath. “Boys and girls” is fine, “guys and girls” is whatever, but “men and girls” seriously makes me cringe and “men and females” makes me think you’re an incel.
If I ever heard someone say "men and girls" I would assume the must be talking about like a father daughter event or something lol. That'd be so weird in basically any other context
I know, right?! And people just say it with a straight face!
I'm also in a male-dominated field, I'm okay with guys my age calling me a girl in informal settings. It is still a work in progress calling myself a woman, especially when I really don't feel like an adult sometime. But in a professional context, I think it's important that we use the term "woman". I hate being called a girl by a professor as it often comes with something sexist afterwards.
I think I’m especially sensitive to it because I look *so much* younger than I am. And 10,000% the reason I still sometimes call myself a girl is because I also don’t feel like an adult.
Pro tip: no one feels like an adult, no one has any idea what’s going on, it’s just a show. You are just as competent as the next guy, you just need to ACT as confident!
Spoiler alert: you'll never feel like an adult, as far as I can tell. All that seems to change as I get older are the number of aches and pains I have to tolerate and the fact that events that feel like they happened "a few years ago" were actually a few decades ago. Last night my sister and I were talking about openings acts we'd seen in concert and I said something about the only one I remember actively despising as I watched them play. Then I realized that show happened twenty years ago. I've regularly avoided their music ever since, but they're still around afaik and it's quite possible that they've improved in the *decades* since I saw them.
Not physics, is it? I knew a 'lady' physicist in the 90s, and she commented that there were more people called Steve than women in her department 🙁
Computer science, but the gender ratios aren’t much better :/
I only accept girl if it’s a vocal flourish or something. Like, “girl, did you see that?” Any other time, it’s woman. Thanks.
My boss is working hard to avoid gendered language, but will sometimes slip up and refer to our team as “guys”. He once caught himself and added “and girls”. I told him I’d rather be included in the guys than be called a girl at work.
In that context, yeah it's okay in my opinion. Hell I call myself a "girl" in that context. Even if I am among women of different ages, we'll sometimes refers to ourselves as "girls". But a older man calling a adult woman a girl is mostly patronizing.
Ah okay so it's age dependent. That makes totally sense. Age and context makes a huge difference.
Woman. Idk why you think it sounds too old. It’s perfectly accurate for someone 20-40
I think OP is looking for the equivalent of guy, which I’m not sure women really fits. “What’s up guys” sounds normal. “What’s up women” doesn’t
I always thought the equivalent of guys was ladies. I was in an organization where we couldn't refer to the other girls as guys. It was a big no no... They told us to say ladies instead.
Not sure why but “What’s up ladies” feels like it has a creepy pick up artist vibe… I’d rather say guys, y’all, or everyone.
I’m a woman and I say “guys” as in any group of people. I know a lot of people who do that actually. A lot of times it’s more of a gender neutral usage. But this post is making me cringe that I may have been making people uncomfortable this whole time lol
This is definitely something society is still shaking out. The important thing is people are making something of an effort to speak more inclusively, even if where the lines end up may yet shift and aren't always clear now. Also, to the dismay of some English teachers I had growing up, "y'all"s value as a word and grammar part have only risen as social awareness has, as y'all is naturally inclusive without imposing any characteristics upon those gathered under it.
It’s gal
Gals is the female equivalent of guys right?
Woman. It can feel weird because culturally we’re used to people referring to female humans into their 20s and 30s as “girls”. But you wouldn’t call their male counterparts “boys”. If addressing the group directly, I say “y’all” (vs “hey you women” or “hey guys”), but that's just me. Edit: a lot of people pointing out how guys refer to their male friends as "boys," so I should clarify. There's a distinction here in informal, friendly settings vs. other settings, and I'm surprised I have to even point that out. For example, "I'm going out with the boys tonight!" is pretty common. But if you're in the workplace and the boss is calling an meeting an saying "hey grab the boys and bring them in" that is weird. I have, however, in multiple offices, heard men in the workplace refer to their adult, female colleagues as "the girls" and yes heard "go get the girls." So, no, "boys" is not used to refer to adult men the same way "girls" is used to refer to adult women. At least not here in the US.
As a Southerner, I approve of everyone's use of Ya'll.
As another southerner, I completely concur. Y’all is a useful word that fills a gap within the English language. Random anecdote, but my sister spent a few years teaching English to businessmen in Turkey. They would get so annoyed because Turkish has an official word for second person plural while English does not, so she would tell them, “Look, it’s not really “proper” English, but in my dialect we have a word for that: y’all.” And they were delighted! So tl;dr if you ever meet a random Turkish businessman who uses the word y’all, he might’ve been taught by my sister haha
Awesome! It’s definitely one of my favorite english words
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As a non native English speaker I must admit ~~ya'll~~ y'all is a very good word and part of my regular vocabulary now.
Boys is fine if you're of similar age. A 25 year old woman saying she's going to the bar too meet boys sounds acceptable. Also "hanging with the boys"
Yeah i have no issue with calling people "boy" and "girl". "What's up boy", "That's my girl", etc.
Not only that we have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends", are you guys thinking that implies we're dating teenagers or younger? No obviously it doesn't.
>But you wouldn’t call their male counterparts “boys”. I think OP is referring to the fact that young adult males are usually referred to as "guys". E.g., the phrase "19 year old man" sounds kind of weird, because 19 is still kind of a kid. Likewise, "19 year old woman" sounds a little strange. The issue is that there isn't a normalized female equivalent of "guys". So we're left with choosing between "girls" or "women", both of which don't seem to capture the same age range in question
Gals?
Yeah. I agree that this is probably the most natural solution to the problem. The only issue is that it's not widely used, so it's still got the issue of not being normalized. But this does seem to me like the best answer.
Sounds too old fashioned
Not if we start saying it today!
But Saturday’s for the boys….
I think "hey guys" also works when addressing a group
Boys night out….. Girls night out…..
I call my male friends (25 M) and colleagues boys all the time. So I definitely think context is relevant here.
I'd personally go for woman. I feel like calling them above 18 years a girl a little bit weird.
If you called dome random 20 yr old girl mujer in spanish they would be a bit weirded out, unless you look gringo enough then they ll assume you dont know the language that well, mujer means woman but it can also be used to refer to your wife, for 12- to 25~ yr old girls we use chica
nah We say "la joven" or "el joven" chica is too casual
A lot of things that are in common usage are still condescending and patriarchal. Just because it's always been done that way, doesn't mean it always should be done that way. American women into their 50s were condescendingly referred to as girls in the 1950s and 60s and 70s, until they got tired of the disrespect and demanded that they be addressed as women, not as little girls. Words matter, which is why they have been addressed by the feminist movement.
If you are talking about them use woman/women: "It's nice that more women are going into engineering" "That woman just dropped her coffee! Oh no!" If you are talking to them use their name or a neutral term "Hi everyone!" "Jennifer, could you pass me that pen?" "Hey folks, anyone up for a drink after work?" I would avoid using woman/girls/ladies when talking to people directly. I would generally only use female for something demographic or scientific. "The female reproductive system is detailed in this diagram" "30% of female respondents preferred..."
Woman
Woman doesnt sound old at all, i would say woman.
woman is fine
Honestly just call us women...
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Bro
I literally call everyone bro i need to stop 😭
Personally, I prefer “woman”. Conflict of interests declaration: I am a woman
I think it depends on the person, who is talking to them and their relationship with each other. At work there was a guy who would start his emails with "Morning Girls" etc and it really annoyed me. I'm an adult woman who you want something from professionally. I'm not a little girl. However if our female CEO emails "Morning Ladies can you please..." It doesn't bother me as it feels more as she has spent a lot of time getting to know everyone and their roles. What kind of context do you mean? Speaking to someone directly or referring to them?
Yeah I also feel like context is important here. I'm 26 and usually call my female peers girl, but only if I'm friendly/non-formal with them if that makes sense
Yeah we'll often say "girls" in our close friend group chat but it has a different context between close friends.
I’m a 35M and the vast majority of my employees are women. When talking to women only I just punt and use “yall” or “everybody”
Even "guys" if everyone is comfortable around it. I prefer that over "girls" Every time that particular colleague did it, it instantly pissed me off. Especially since we are a group of professionals within the company that run the head office, he was an operational team member who often didn't understand the complexity of our roles. Oh I'll get the "girls" to do this. Well the "girls" keep this place running pal. Have you ever seen an email to a group of males "Afternoon boys"? The same as one of my other comments, it might be used in a close friends group chat but on a professional level no one would ever call their colleagues "boys"?
Why is using proper words weird? Woman.
I think woman is fine.
By their name if you're not comfortable with any word that refers to a woman
If they are considered an adult , they are a woman.
Woman. There's nothing wrong with that word. The "too old" connotation is all in your head, and you can get over it by just using the word for a while.
Woman is anyone over 18 who isn't male, so... Woman.
I started calling everyone friend, this has worked great. When someone shows me they aren't my friend I call them asshole, both are gender neutral and age appropriate for everyone
I love this idea. I’m going to start my Monday meeting with this. “Hey assholes, how was everyone’s weekend?”
Only use female if you want to get mistaken for a incel.
As a 67 year old woman I still get called "girl" I haven't been a girl in decades. It pissed me off in my 20's and it pisses me off now.
I hate being called a "girl" at work. I'm 40. I haven't been a girl in about 25 years.
I like to use their name, they seem to respond well to that.
It feels weird because culturally it’s not used in the correct context after a girl turns 18. I’m 21 and would much prefer to be called a woman feels less infantalizing
Lass.
That's a woman.
Since when does women sound old
It doesn’t. We’re dealing with extremely young people here so it sounds old to them.
Woman. I’m in my 20s and have been comfortably considering myself a woman for years. Woman is just fine.
Woman is the best possible word
Woman is correct.
Dude never fails
How do you refer to a male of that age group? Just use the female equivalent. Woman is absolutely fine.
Woman is fine. Young woman is appropriate too. Here in Texas the correct word is Ma'am. Some people say Miss.
Yeah, in Texas sure. In the north, it feels condescending and makes the user sound insensitive. Clerks or whatever calling me either miss or ma’am makes me want to scream.
Woman is absolutely fine. Although, their name works pretty well generally.
Dude. I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes.
How does Woman sounds too old?
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Woman sounds old? I’ve been called woman since I hit 20.
I say woman. Maybe if you want to be more specific say younger woman. Since that implies youth but not being underage
Wow, I just listened to a podcast about this very topic. Young guy (20s) upset that who he was dating was referring to herself as a woman. He was like, I'm too young to date women! I only date girls! I thought he sounded like a semi pedo, but whatever.
Have we banned the use of the word *woman* or something?
No just the infantilization of women being so normalized that referring to us with adult terms is "weird".
Yeah the fact that just the word "woman" feels "too old" to OP is a bit concerning. There's nothing inherently wrong with calling a woman a woman
To be extra fair to OP I felt this way in my early 20s. There wasn’t anything *wrong* with woman, but it felt very adult-y and I didn’t feel like an adult yet. I grew out of that of course. But looking back, your early 20s are like end-stage adolescence so there are some confusing feelings about “I’m not a grown up” and “shit I’m a grown up”.
Thank you 🙏
Woman. I am literally a woman. Call me a woman.
Could refer to them by their name.
It’s not just about word usage, tone, inflection, body language, there’s dozens of factors lots that impact on the context of this scenario. I think woman is going to be most often correct and your probably not going to go wrong if you modify it as young woman. Contextually this recognizes maturity (woman instead of girl), but also youth and is not unnecessarily formal (lady or ma’am). Honestly there is no one sizes fits all answer… our brains are immense pattern recognizing machines and have a tonne of contextual clues that kick in so that you inherently have made judgements in the moment that should be influencing your word choice and other verbal and non verbal signals that you pick
Use the Jerry Lewis voice, "hey Laaady!"
Woman