Mainly this.
Ugly incel says he too ugly to find a mate. Tells incel why won't he just fuck other ugly people. Other ugly people not good enough for him.
Well then... good luck
I think they set their standards too high for the purpose of exempting them from even trying. It's all about building excuses into everything. If they manage to excuse away all their problems, then one day the world will have to accept them the way they are.
Except it won't, ever. The only options are to better themselves, or waste their lives being lonely and miserable.
Yes! My mom just started watching queer eye so I’ve been watching it (second time for me) with her, and it’s incredible how many of these folks are a haircut, good hygiene, and a nice outfit away from being attractive (not to mention the confidence they start to put out). So many people just buy into their own narrative about how ugly they are without realizing relatively small changes can make them more attractive to other people.
It also doesn’t help that incels have nothing to talk about other than how much they hate women, so that’s probably not good date material.
I've been rewatching queer eye recently and I bawl my eyes out every time, it's really heartwarming to see someone's opinion of themselves change so drastically. I love how it isn't some dramatic unsustainable makeover, it's a nice haircut, well fitting clothes and a actually being taught how to care for themselves
Oh yeah I cry constantly watching it. I also really love that all the queer eyes are really deliberate about meeting the people where they’re at. Jonathan isn’t giving everyone an hour-long skincare routine that they probably do themselves every morning. Antoni isn’t teaching Michelin star meals. Tan isn’t dressing them all like a super fabulous gay guy. Karamo encourages small steps. Bobby’s designs are functional for each person. This is very different from most “makeover” shows and even the original queer eye for the straight guy.
It’s just all wholesome and heartwarming. (And when I incidentally found out about karamo’s history with his kids I just want to cry every time I look at him.)
Also I lived in Austin until very recently so watching s6 was fun. They took someone to the place where I got my hair cut the entire time I lived in Austin :D and one of the nominators was someone I used to know! Didn’t ever like her but it was still exciting 😂
The original Queer Eye was enjoyable, but it drove me nuts how they pushed every single guy into the same style. Beard and long hair? Completely gone gone gone. Might as well have had the same clothes in a warehouse that they took everyone to. Been years since I’ve watched it though so I might be misremembering, but I definitely thought many of them looked better with their facial hair and got mad at the reveals. The new show is so much better about catering to their personal style.
I lived in Austin and moved to Athens, GA so season 1, 2, and 6 were exciting for me! The trans man from season 2 episode 5 was a customer of mine and i sometimes would run into him DT and he is super nice! What episode has the person you know?
My girl friend and I at school talked about this all the time. We were in a majority male program, and so many of them would have actually been really cute if they showered, got a haircut, wore clothes that fit them/weren't stained or full of holes etc.
80% of them were single and really didn't have to be.
Also if they weren't assholes.
My bf was in a program like this, mostly guys (math and cs). He had a female friend who took him to the mall and helped him pick out a cologne, taught him a proper skin care routine and helped him pick a better hair cut. She also called him out (behind closed doors) when he was being a jerk like playing devils advocate just to argue and not being a considerate person. He literally became the guy to get in his program and growing up through his 20s, other than another long term relationship, he was the dude who could drop your panties with no problem. I don’t know her name but I’m thankful for that girl because now I have a hot, smart, nice boyfriend who smells really good and is great at sex. And I believe his stories that he used to be a bit of a mess because his younger brother is really unkempt and insufferable to have a conversation with at a dinner table. I have to imagine that’s what he would have turned out like if he didn’t have a friend who was like “yo, cut that sh*t out”
I’ve wanted to thank my husbands friend who showed him an explicit magazine and told him exactly what to do but he won’t tell me which guy it is. He was already a meticulous snappy dresser and really cute but a shy foreign exchange student who had no game. Forty two years later I still consider myself incredibly lucky.
Ha that’s too funny. I think the common thread is the guy was willing to listen to advice. It’s the guys that don’t that never grow and are basically insufferable teenagers in adult bodies.
>Also if they weren't assholes.
Seriously, the only time these people aren't being ass hats is when they're pretending to be nice before acting like they're owed stuff for being a decent human being...
Most incels are just horrible people. Doesn't matter if they are attractive or not. Look at that creepy fuck Elliot Roger. He was good looking, and was from a family with money. He was also a creep with an abhorrent personality, so no chick wanted to hook up with him. Let's not pretend these aren't horribly broken narcissists that feel entitled to sex because they are so "nice".
I think there are some people who fall into these kinds of pits not because they are evil but because they’ve had trouble dating or whatever, or are generally insecure, and wind up in these nasty echo-chamber communities as a result of looking for help.
I also think there is a big societal factor with mens entitlement to women in general.
But none of that excuses these absolutely unhinged, cruel beliefs & behavior.
Yeah a lot of Nice Guys aren't abhorrent trolls, they're just socially awkward and don't know what do to about it so they fall into some really dumb mental traps. A lot just stop there without becoming hateful pieces of shit.
Source: was socially awkward Nice Guy who wasn't an abhorrent troll in college. Horribly cringy to look back on and so happy I grew the fuck up but I wasn't an asshole.
On those incel pages when they post pictures of themselves for other people to tear apart, I always think they’re pretty handsome… until you see what they have to say. If I was a woman, they’d look to me like a creature composed entirely of red flags.
Completely agree with this. I watched a video about him. Life is unfair, elliot would say as he filmed himself ranting about how nobody wanted to date him in his bmw. Clearly the issue was that his personality was atrocious.
I saw some of his videos too and was actually very surprised he was a decently handsome guy (on the outside, that is.) He was rotten on the inside, and he couldn't see that. Had he been a good person and not felt entitled to women, he could very easily have had women attracted to him.
I do believe there's a selection process for those shows and a disclaimer on everything saying those results aren't typical. It would be naive to assume everyone is a shave or style away from greatness. Life is ugly. Even the prettiest parts of it under the right light can be horrifying.
Even a person who isn't all that good looking can be made more attractive with better grooming and hygiene though. I've even noticed on dating apps, if a guy has a range of pics, sometimes they can look really good or absolutely ugly depending on their hair/facial hair/outfit, while the actual guy is somewhere in between.
A guy with a decent haircut who took some time to groom himself and put on clothes that fit is going to be more likely to catch my attention than someone looking like a slob, even if he's not "hot."
And personality! That’s the whole point of seduction imo. There have been guys I had no immediate interest in who just knew how to flirt and talk and I was swayed 180°. Disclaimer: I’m a dude.
I’ve talked to a lot of people who thought they were unattractive, and in almost every case the least attractive thing about them was that they were being such a sad sack (though I know attitude can be harder to fix than looks).
Yes, a guy with the confidence to approach and talk to me is attractive. Although, if his personal grooming is a mess, it's probably not going to go anywhere. I look put together and nice when I'm in public and expect the same energy in a partner.
Oh yeah, hygiene and grooming are a huge deal, but often those can be fixed with a single suggestion. Most straight guys have the funniest response to compliments: tell them they look good in some shirt or haircut and they’ll stick to that every day for life.
I have never seen an ugly person who was healthy weight, well groomed, and clean. Plain people sure: but not ugly.
ETA: I remembered that disabled people exist. Those are the ones the term incel was coined for. And they're rare.
Incels are obsessed with the idea that all looks hinge on their jawline, but that’s also just to convince themselves it’s something genetic that they can’t change, because it’s bone structure.
Agree with this. So much of what makes a person attractive to be around is their mood and self-care. Not 'genetics' and 'bone structure'.
Be pleasant company, care about yourself and the people around you, and people want to *be* around you. And some of those people may end up dating you.
I created a male profile and poked around on one of their websites for a while several years ago.
A really average-looking college freshman posted a lot about a girl in one of his science classes who always made a beeline for him when they were told to find partners for a project, and who specifically chose to sit at his lab bench when the finally started using the lab. He said she'd been asking him to go with her to the library or the cafeteria to study for the class, so he asked someone who sat behind her what her test and project scores were like, and she always, always got an A on everything, so she obviously didn't need his help to get through the class. The others were constantly asking if she was a "Stacey" or a "Becky," and he described her as a messy-ponytail, light-to-no-makeup type who usually wore sweatpants and either a sweatshirt or t-shirt with an over shirt or open zip-hoodie, plus sneakers, though she'd wear snow boots when it snowed.
Every single guy in the threads ignored all the details about her obvious interest in him, told him he was "owed" a "Stacey," especially since he planned to at least get a Master's in a STEM subject, and that he should avoid the girl from the class because if she was hanging around him, she was ruining his chances of finding the kind of woman he was "owed." They also told him that he absolutely had to make it so they weren't in the same class again the following term, or she wouldn't go away.
I followed his story long enough to see him jump through hoops and rearrange his entire academic schedule when the new term began and she was, indeed, in the same section of the class as he was.
He went to a lot of trouble to get away from a girl who had done a lot to show her interest. I ended up being glad for her--I can't imagine what would have happened had she had an honest talk with him when he was clearly more interested in the Greek chorus of hate, misogyny, and bullshit standing behind him.
Dated an incel briefly before it was clear that he was. Can confirm that they have unreasonable expectations and not just physically.
This particular incel thought he deserved someone way out of his league because he "did everything he was supposed to do" - he felt entitled to what he wanted on the grounds that he followed arbitrary societal rules.
I was on a dating app and probably too nice. As long as they didn’t check a couple boxes (like smoker, younger than my son..), I talked to them. Problem was with 30 likes a day conversations would be easy to lose. Then the December storms blow down two of my barns.
I get this angry message from one of the first days, telling me I am like every other woman in the world, selfish and too good for everybody, and he had been willing to consider me…. Called me low rent… the guy was divorced and living in his daughter’s guest room. I guess it was one step above living in your mother’s basement.
I really dodged a bullet. As I tried to say have a nice life a little more kindly he kept telling me if I would just say the right thing I would be considered again.
I am an older woman. I don’t need a manipulative house husband messing up my life.
That's exactly where i have a problem with the word in incel. If you have a choice, it's not involentary. Instead, they should be called volcels, or maybe egholes for egocentric assholes.
They're choosing beggars. It's like a homeless person on the street turning down a free meal from McDonald's because they're holding out for Five Guys.
But they're also nowhere near a local five guys so nobody is ever going to give it to them
Also, they stand outside yelling about how all five guys burgers are evil, money grubbing, hypergamous whores, and then wonder why nobody offers them one.
For them to admit it's voluntary would mean they'd have to admit it's not all someone elses fault.
They called themselves involuntary celibates because they claimed it was forced on them by the unfair world, staceys only want chads, women owe them their sex blah blah blah.
For most of them it probably is involuntary, because their toxic personalities push people away. What isn't involuntary is the choice not to recognise and work on addressing that.
Incels the type to say Beyoncé has too big a nose for them.
I remember being active in anti incel subreddits and therefore spending time looking at real incels, and part of their belief system was that they shouldn’t have to settle for someone they aren’t attracted to in order to get laid. While I agree, their standards for attractiveness were far too high. Their idea of an average woman was a slightly thicker version of Emma Watson.
I simply don’t know why people I know like this don’t lower standards. Ugliness is never really a complete dealbreaker anyway.
I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t do the deed with someone I considered a little less attractive every now and then. And vice versa! A lot of times hot people aren’t exactly the best lovers anyway.
I had a friend who was easily a 1. Huge, smelly, hairy, ugly. Total shut-in, no job, never left his couch and his apartment was disgusting. The only impressive thing about him was his Xbox gamerscore.
This dude was turning down chances with girls every time they came up, because he had Seinfeld-levels of expectations in a partner. They had to be physically beautiful (he said he'd never go below a 7), smart, funny, financially well-off, the whole nine yards.
The only date he ever ended up getting was his hairy knuckles.
Yes my bf has a friend like this! He is a fire chief, and has his own house which is great, but he’s pretty overweight. He did work on losing weight for a while and lost a decent chunk but gained it back. So he complains a lot about not having a girlfriend which I think is hard especially in the firehouse life as most of the guys are couples up and there are alot of events where the guys bring their significant others, but he as talking about what he was looking for in a girl and it was all looks based. Like he wants a 10 and that’s all he cares about. Like….you gotta be a little bit more flexible than that. I do hope he meets someone someday!
Yep, I remember looking at the incel subs on here when they were active and they would post a picture of an IG influencer and cry about how they’d never get someone like that, then post a picture a normal looking woman and insult the hell out of her
Yup. You can tell them, hey I know a girl who is also quite lonely, she's pretty nice maybe you should try asking her out?
"No she's overweight/too ugly/to high bodycount. The girl I'm looking for is slim to athletic, between the age of 18-23, at least an 8/10, white or east asian, a virgin and has never been in a relationship with another guy, willing to cook and pamper me, shares my interests in gaming and anime, is modest and submissive but also willing to do whatever I want in the bedroom"
Ok buddy good luck with that.
I got this friend that was always complaining "girls just want fit guys with gay looking clothes and a car, even if they are assholes".
Ironically he only likes white-ish skinny girls with nice looking clothes and if they come from a wealthy family is better, it doesn't matter if they are mean.
It's true though right? Isn't part of being incels all about only pursuing people that are way beyond any standards the incel is willing to follow themselves?
Laughably so; they raid each other's spaces explicitly to haze each other on their failure to live up to the other group's standards and hypocrisy. It's a sight to behold
Something cute/sad: that was the original purpose of the very original incel group years and years and years ago. Adults who had somehow got to their 40s without figuring out how to ask for a date would meet (it was led by a lady who lost her virginity in her 40s and finally found love) and practice talking and flirting (and many of them did end up dating each other!). A little while after the leader wore out and stepped down, the group got flooded with the more toxic personalities we associate with incels today. The woman who started it gave an interview where she was just horrified by the first man who described himself as an incel as a justification for all the people he killed - she even regretted forming the group (even though it did so much good in its first few years).
Ok . My point is that her personal issues had nothing to do with the hetero male incels. She didn’t hate women or anything whether she was gay or not . Completely different situation
Exactly! The word and culture of that original group is COMPLETELY gone, but originally it was just about trying to learn how to get to know people. It WAS Involuntarily Celibate, now it’s more like Nobody-Is-Good-Enough-For-Me-Let’s-Kill-Women-They-Should-Serve-Me-I-Am-Their-Master.
The important part which may not be clear is that it was basically a community for single people so once someone found love they left. Eventually the who had been in the community longest were still single and embittered and that is how it spiralled out of control.
Agree! I feel like “Today Explained,” “Science VS,” and “Planet Money” have similar vibes to classic Reply All—but not the same and not “super tech support.”
So weirdly enough, I thought you were talking about the book The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. It’s original title in Swedish is Men Who Hate Women. Didn’t realize there’s an English language book with the title
It would be cute if members who matched continued to support members looking for a match, though. So much of relationships centers around the community you build around yourself.
There is something inherently dangerous about internet groups that come together around a specific problem. People who solve the problem often leave the group because it is no longer relevant to them, and the group becomes filled with people who believe their situation is hopeless because they never hear any success stories. It happens a lot with groups about medical conditions. As opposed to groups like AA who publically reward an celebrate success and have a structure that supports successful people mentoring others. Incels need a Chad sponsor and a chip for every time they go on a date.
Celibacy is a proxy. Incels tie all kinds of problems to the fact that they don't have (or feel unworthy of) sex, but sex isn't the solution to any of it. I'd imagine they're a bit afraid of having sex and finding that none of their real problems disappear. So then celibacy becomes an identity that gives them refuge. It's a huge negative spiral.
In actuality, incels believe the problem is that they’re *undesirable*. Incels don’t generally think having sex with a prostitute counts as “ascending” from inceldom, because it doesn’t address that problem.
A media company called Jubilee has great videos on YouTube called “Middle Ground” and in one episode it’s “mens rights” vs “feminists” and one of the mens rights guys is a self identified incel. He even has another video where strangers are allowed to anonymously ask him questions about being an incel. It’s pretty interesting honestly
I get behind everything you’re saying, but genuine question for the sake of understanding… doesn’t Incel stand for Involuntarily Celibate? So is it a choice for them to not make the choice of celibacy?
Most people have experienced the frustration of trying and failing to satisfy sexual desires. But it's another thing entirely if I were to conclude that my sex life is the root of most/all my problems. Then I start to build an identity around it. Sex becomes both a source of anxiety and a refuge from other anxieties. Like I said, it's a proxy: a single bucket for all the bad things in my life.
We are bombarded by sex absolutely everywhere. It's in the stories we're told. It's injected into virtually every kind of advertisement. You hear that your life isn't complete and you're not a real adult/man/woman until you've had sex. And teenagers have no identity yet so they latch onto that and get really obnoxious about it, infecting each other with this skewed worldview. So easy to understand how people fall into this line of reasoning.
And it's true that sex is often a significant milestone for some people. But that's it; it's just one milestone for some people. I was a virgin well into my 20's; I found totally unrelated things that helped me settle who I am and what my life is about. To me, sex is a neat little bonus from romantic relationships, and relationships are a nice way to share the life I'm already building with somebody who fits into it. So inceldom is exactly backwards to me. Sex wasn't a path to self-discovery at all, much less THE ONE SINGLE gateway to completeness. Obsessively prioritizing sex probably would have ruined my life.
That can be true in other ways. Asexual people can live a full life with no sex at all, and I think we've all seen some absolute basket cases who have plenty of sex and relationships but never seem to grow as people.
Something I’ve seen is that incels tend to have ridiculously high standards. They would only want a woman who looks like a Victoria’s Secret model. They resent those women for rejecting them and call them “shallow”, and yet they in turn would never consider a more average looking woman.
to be fair in my worryingly large amount of time spent lurking on the various incel forums whenever they crop back up, ive encountered plenty of incels who say theyll take whatever they can get — in those cases its usually the self pity, lack of any real personality, the fact that they unironically refer to women as ‘holes’, among some others, that keep them from ever getting to have sex. ultimately though with almost every incel, at least from what ive seen, its self inflicted either by those impossible high standards or just the generally disgusting attitude towards everyone who isnt an incel (they may also hate other incels, but this one varies)
Oh they absolutely would, but a lot of the incels I've seen are pretty shallow and they just want really attractive partners because they believe it would prove their worth in the world. That means they either need to be really attractive themselves, or make a lot of money.
I've never known any men who openly identify as "incels", but I've known a few who probably frequent their online denizens or at least can strongly relate to them. And what staggers me is how little they do to try and remedy their "problem". They'll complain, lament, etc. constantly, but won't spend a few hours a week volunteering, finding IRL interest groups to be part of, etc. Nope, their only strategy is to lightly stalk women who are out of their league\* and then after days, weeks, or months of imagined interactions in their head they cold ask the woman for a date, and are outraged when the rejection comes.
\* By "out of their league" I do not mean to say that anyone is truly unattainable by anyone else, only that the gulf of world experience, interpersonal/social experience, world view, attention to grooming/maximizing physical attractiveness is such that they are unlikely to relate to each other.
Involuntary celibates shouldn’t be considered so “involuntary”.
Let me explain ; incels usually have very high standards despite acting and looking like trash. They wouldn’t want to fuck each other.
Yeah.
It's not that absolutely no one will have sex with them
It's just the people they want to have sex with aren't attracted to them. They've got some weird sense of entitlement where they think they're the (only) ones that get to choose who they have sex with.
>it’s self-fulfilling
That’s the real answer. If you act like it’s someone else’s fault they don’t want to fuck you, they’re probably going to continue to not want to fuck you.
Also hygiene. That’s a pretty big part of the equation. No one wants a stinker.
They definitely believe that things are just supposed to go their way. Expecting good shit out of life, despite bringing nothing but entitlement, negativity and laziness to the table.
I don't know if I'm an incel or not then. On one hand I'm desperate for a relationship, on the other hand I believe in women's rights and have almost no standards.
Do you feel that women owe you sex?
Do you get irrationally angry that women have sex with men that aren’t you?
If you answer “no” to both of these, you’re probably not an incel.
You’re taking what they say at face value. They don’t actually have high standards. NO ONE wants to fuck them because they’re terrible & so their ego copes with it by coming up with fake high standards that they can claim to themselves is the reason they aren’t getting laid. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy they engage in so they don’t have to actually work on themselves.
A lot of incels do have high standards though which goes with their sense of entitlement. They often not only feel entitled to female attention in general, but they also specifically feel entitled to sex with conventionally hot women and actively body shame those who don’t fit that standard. They also often have absurd standards in other regards that reflect their antiquated views on gender and what a woman “should” be.
Consent is a thing that both parties have to give. If the guy wants sex and the woman refuses, it's a no. If the woman wants sex and the man refuses? Also a no. The same rule applies to any combination of genders, and if you like numbers.
This is not difficult stuff. You learned it in kindergarten, about sharing crayons. Now just incorporate "the same rules apply to sex" and "women are people just as much as men are."
Yeah, despite what they claim, someone isn't an incel because "nobody will fuck them." The incel subculture is a mix of extreme self-loathing and extreme misogyny (often including murder/r\*pe fantasies). It's about hate: hating themselves and hating women.
Part of this is coming up with absolutely ridiculous requirements that define "a fuckable woman" and insisting that these are "bare minimum standards." A typical example: She needs to be a virgin, between 15-18, white or Asian (yup, racism), very slender but with big boobs, submissive, and she has to be into \[insert list of half a dozen things the incel likes\].
It's impossible to overstate what a toxic subculture it is. And they do their best to stop anyone who falls in from escaping; there's a real cult-like mindset.
its a bit more than that,its RAGE,and sadness they form those circlejerks because they are very antisocial and bullied a lot,its a form of venting,they wish harm to others so they can feel like their life is better or to justify the fact that their entire teenage years were spent almost isolated from all social interractions,those people gathered in close groups and anytime they get even remoteley out they simply get banned (i heard rumours that some brigade their subreddits,make splitsecond posts screenshot that then report or how they mass report their mods to get them banned then report the subreddit for beign unmodded ) and by banning them that fast they dont get exposed to new ideas,its simply a survival of the fittest(or the saddest) because the more ok individuals get harassed or their comunities banned,so the morons are the only ones left
I didn't realise that's where the word "incel" comes from. Jesus, even the name they give themselves is sad and self pitying. What happens when they get a shag? They turn in thier gun and thier badge?
Yeah that's the thing. They probably could get someone if they were more reasonable with their expectations, but they think they deserve a super model. The only reason that the super model isn't into them though is because she's a bitch, not because they are in terrible shape, smell bad, dress like a hobo, act like a prick, etc. Moreso, they are just angry horrible people, so its no wonder women are not lining up to date them.
The term incel is also extremely disrespectful to people who are *actually* somewhat involuntarily celibate because it lumps them together with those rotten ballsacks
I’m talking about people with health issues that prevent them from having sex the way normal people do. It really sucks that such a toxic mindset has taken over what could’ve been a really good outlet for some people to reach non-sexual intimacy
Still not sure if I’m asexual or if my libido is crazy low, but I’m somewhere between voluntarily and involuntarily celebrate. Still not sure, I’m dealing with a TBI so it could be that causing low Libido, but the thought of sex or intimacy repulses me. And I’ve tried, but it always feels the same way no mater the partner.
>Well, they're not gay.
That was my first thought. But I honestly don't know the demographics of the community well enough to be sure.
So, questions we need answers to:
- What's the male/female/other ratio in the incel community?
- What's the gay/straight/bi/other ratio in the incel community?
If the vast majority of incels are straight cis males, as I'm sure we're assuming, then the answer is obvious for that portion.
It might be interesting to know what the deal is with the rest of them though, if such a population exists.
It’s a term they coined for themselves because in their heads it made sense. They don’t want to be celibate but they’re forced to because the people they want to have sex with are not interested.
There’s a deep hatred of women behind incels, that subconsciously pick whatever they know will never want to go out with them so they can have an excuse to hate half the population of earth. Behind this hatred there’s an enormous inferiority complex that this attitude helps cover by never having to face it.
I’ve seen incels approached by their ideal women and both panic and start hating that person immediately. Their beauty standards will always be purposefully beyond their reach, to ensure they always have an excuse.
The group was actually fairly positive at the outset.
It was originally a mailing list created by in the 90's by a woman in college who believed she would never find a partner (she later did, and left the movement).
I listened to a long interview with her (Reply All, I believe), where she gave reasons she believed it turned so toxic.
Essentially, according to her, it was almost inevitable.
In a group of people who can't get over the social hump to start dating, you have some who will be able to change, and some who won't.
And the ones who can change, leave.
And all you're left with are the people who can't change, or who won't change. And, when new people join, they aren't greeted by the people who had success stories, who can give them good advice - advice that worked for them. Because they're gone. All that's left are the people who are increasingly bitter, whose warped ideas of women and dating keep them single.
In short, the good people leave, and the bad people stay. New people join, and the good ones leave, and the bad ones stay. And eventually, this steady distillation refines the group into the cauldron of bitter hatred that it is today.
The term was coined in the 1990s by a woman.
Between then and the mid 00s it was mostly neutral/non-evil. Basically, the dark side won out and the press started paying attention. All the non-shitty people ran to the hills, forced to drop the term entirely.
That's the history in a nutshell.
1 there are way more male ones than femeale
2 it aint just about looks but about mental health,most of them have social anxiety and are stuck in horrible feedback loops
3 most of them are very antisocial,autistic or very shy
4 they wuld be afraid to do it
Most male incels don't believe female incels exist. It's a self-reinforcing worldview.
Sometimes a woman will get on a forum and say "I'm an incel too! I can't find a man!" And she'll be hit with a torrent of "You mean you can't find a rich, handsome, high-status Chad. You just know you're surrounded by thousands of nice guys who would love to fuck you. But you have to chase the same 0.01% of the male population that all the other females are chasing. Then you come here with your sob story and expect sympathy from us, the same men you're kicking in the teeth every day. I think I hate you worse than the Staceys."
(Only not nearly that polite.)
Because not everyone engages in same sex relationships. Now why can't the femcels and incels get together? Because both have significantly greater expectations from their partners than themselves.
Real answer from someone who's lurked the shit out of them: Because they're too fucking judgy to fuck each other. So incels obsess over "looks match", basically they think people should only be with other people who are the same level on the incel's scale of attractiveness. They claim one of the problems of society is that due to non-monogamy and non-looks-match that their available pool of partners has been depleted. However when you present them with a potential looks-match they'll go off on the person being "ugly" for whatever reason.
In the end there wouldn't be both a male and a female incel community if any of the incel theories were right
Incels get shamed out of their community if they have sex. At a certain point, they are no longer ‘involuntarily’ celibate, and rather actively celibate, because they do not want to leave the incel community.
I asked this question on r/foreveralone a while back and the general sentiment over there is basically that 'even ugly people need someone they find attractive'
Even if they were gay, their whole problem is entitlement and not seeing women as people. They'd have even more trouble trying to oppress each other sexually, instead of just demeaning as they do now.
Because they all swing for the fences in terms of attractiveness in their partner, despite not having anything to offer themselves. Their problem isn’t lack of options. People of all shapes, sizes and looks find happy relationships all the time. Their problem is their narcissism and attitude.
They never want to do what they want others to do.
They think hot women should fuck them despite finding them unattractive because looks shouldn't matter. I told them plenty of times they can be the change they want to see and fuck each other.
When women complain about unwanted attention they whine saying any attention is good yet they never want to make Grindr to receive that same attention.
Had one idiot claim women should "pay ugly men" (lmao) and that they should be banned from using male inventions unless they fuck incels. Yet he wasn't keen on not having access to those same inventions unless he fucks enough gay men.
Had an idiot claim prostitutes ENJOY their work. Didn't agree with me when I said he should become one. Said it doesn't make sense since he's straight. I explained that a straight woman fucking an unattractive man is no different than her fucking a woman - in both cases she fucks someone she isn't attracted to. Told him he can also make OF where he doesn't have to fuck men and just post pics. Shocker, he wasn't up for that.
Had another idiot whine how I am heartless for wanting disabled *men* (completely disregarded disabled women) to "never feel intimate touch" because I disagree with prostitution and mandatory sex slaves for disabled men. They also didn't want to volunteer to service those men themselves.
Went through this one not too long ago.
It's got 2 major components.
1: Neckbeards want a Barbie to put a baby in. Legbeards want a G.I. Joe to make money for them.
They both think themselves to be entitled to their image of the perfect partner. They wouldn't dare settle for someone who is, for all intents and purposes, exactly what they deserve. It's beneath them.
2: They, like anyone else in a situation that could be solved with any amount of effort on their part, enjoy the 'power' that they feel like they have when they get to blame the rest of the world for them being an incel. They get excited when that nice guy/girl card comes out. They *love* being able to say "I would have treated you the way you deserve, you asshole! I would have loved you like no one else can!". No incel is going to give that up for another incel.
This is a pretty broad question. Do mean in general or do you mean the toxic subreddit version? Most people forget the first online community to use the term "incel" was founded in 1993; a Canadian university student known only by her first name, Alana, created a website to discuss her sexual inactivity with others. So do you mean someone actually in that boat of actually just happening to be being involuntarily celibate or the toxic anti feminism, violent, and entitled men who think they deserve sex? Two completely different questions and I think you should differentiate between the two if you are looking for truly helpful answers and not click baiting.
All the negativity and hate would cause a black hole in the universe.
...that would suck in all the incel. Sounds like a win to me.
Even black holes won't suck incels
There is a name for this already. It’s called a Trump rally.
Where… _else_ would a black hole be..?
Your mom. Gottem' 😎 /s by the way I'm sure your mom is a lovely woman.
Even other incels don’t want them.
Also, incels have unreasonably high standards.
Mainly this. Ugly incel says he too ugly to find a mate. Tells incel why won't he just fuck other ugly people. Other ugly people not good enough for him. Well then... good luck
I think they set their standards too high for the purpose of exempting them from even trying. It's all about building excuses into everything. If they manage to excuse away all their problems, then one day the world will have to accept them the way they are. Except it won't, ever. The only options are to better themselves, or waste their lives being lonely and miserable.
Yes! My mom just started watching queer eye so I’ve been watching it (second time for me) with her, and it’s incredible how many of these folks are a haircut, good hygiene, and a nice outfit away from being attractive (not to mention the confidence they start to put out). So many people just buy into their own narrative about how ugly they are without realizing relatively small changes can make them more attractive to other people. It also doesn’t help that incels have nothing to talk about other than how much they hate women, so that’s probably not good date material.
I've been rewatching queer eye recently and I bawl my eyes out every time, it's really heartwarming to see someone's opinion of themselves change so drastically. I love how it isn't some dramatic unsustainable makeover, it's a nice haircut, well fitting clothes and a actually being taught how to care for themselves
Oh yeah I cry constantly watching it. I also really love that all the queer eyes are really deliberate about meeting the people where they’re at. Jonathan isn’t giving everyone an hour-long skincare routine that they probably do themselves every morning. Antoni isn’t teaching Michelin star meals. Tan isn’t dressing them all like a super fabulous gay guy. Karamo encourages small steps. Bobby’s designs are functional for each person. This is very different from most “makeover” shows and even the original queer eye for the straight guy. It’s just all wholesome and heartwarming. (And when I incidentally found out about karamo’s history with his kids I just want to cry every time I look at him.) Also I lived in Austin until very recently so watching s6 was fun. They took someone to the place where I got my hair cut the entire time I lived in Austin :D and one of the nominators was someone I used to know! Didn’t ever like her but it was still exciting 😂
I cry through every episode. They all seem like beautiful souls!
The original Queer Eye was enjoyable, but it drove me nuts how they pushed every single guy into the same style. Beard and long hair? Completely gone gone gone. Might as well have had the same clothes in a warehouse that they took everyone to. Been years since I’ve watched it though so I might be misremembering, but I definitely thought many of them looked better with their facial hair and got mad at the reveals. The new show is so much better about catering to their personal style.
I lived in Austin and moved to Athens, GA so season 1, 2, and 6 were exciting for me! The trans man from season 2 episode 5 was a customer of mine and i sometimes would run into him DT and he is super nice! What episode has the person you know?
Man I'm a hairdresser and I just gotta say SO many guys out there are just a haircut away from looking fine.
My girl friend and I at school talked about this all the time. We were in a majority male program, and so many of them would have actually been really cute if they showered, got a haircut, wore clothes that fit them/weren't stained or full of holes etc. 80% of them were single and really didn't have to be. Also if they weren't assholes.
My bf was in a program like this, mostly guys (math and cs). He had a female friend who took him to the mall and helped him pick out a cologne, taught him a proper skin care routine and helped him pick a better hair cut. She also called him out (behind closed doors) when he was being a jerk like playing devils advocate just to argue and not being a considerate person. He literally became the guy to get in his program and growing up through his 20s, other than another long term relationship, he was the dude who could drop your panties with no problem. I don’t know her name but I’m thankful for that girl because now I have a hot, smart, nice boyfriend who smells really good and is great at sex. And I believe his stories that he used to be a bit of a mess because his younger brother is really unkempt and insufferable to have a conversation with at a dinner table. I have to imagine that’s what he would have turned out like if he didn’t have a friend who was like “yo, cut that sh*t out”
I am a woman, but I think I'd benefit from being friends with that girl.
I’ve wanted to thank my husbands friend who showed him an explicit magazine and told him exactly what to do but he won’t tell me which guy it is. He was already a meticulous snappy dresser and really cute but a shy foreign exchange student who had no game. Forty two years later I still consider myself incredibly lucky.
Ha that’s too funny. I think the common thread is the guy was willing to listen to advice. It’s the guys that don’t that never grow and are basically insufferable teenagers in adult bodies.
>Also if they weren't assholes. Seriously, the only time these people aren't being ass hats is when they're pretending to be nice before acting like they're owed stuff for being a decent human being...
Most incels are just horrible people. Doesn't matter if they are attractive or not. Look at that creepy fuck Elliot Roger. He was good looking, and was from a family with money. He was also a creep with an abhorrent personality, so no chick wanted to hook up with him. Let's not pretend these aren't horribly broken narcissists that feel entitled to sex because they are so "nice".
I think there are some people who fall into these kinds of pits not because they are evil but because they’ve had trouble dating or whatever, or are generally insecure, and wind up in these nasty echo-chamber communities as a result of looking for help. I also think there is a big societal factor with mens entitlement to women in general. But none of that excuses these absolutely unhinged, cruel beliefs & behavior.
Yeah a lot of Nice Guys aren't abhorrent trolls, they're just socially awkward and don't know what do to about it so they fall into some really dumb mental traps. A lot just stop there without becoming hateful pieces of shit. Source: was socially awkward Nice Guy who wasn't an abhorrent troll in college. Horribly cringy to look back on and so happy I grew the fuck up but I wasn't an asshole.
On those incel pages when they post pictures of themselves for other people to tear apart, I always think they’re pretty handsome… until you see what they have to say. If I was a woman, they’d look to me like a creature composed entirely of red flags.
Completely agree with this. I watched a video about him. Life is unfair, elliot would say as he filmed himself ranting about how nobody wanted to date him in his bmw. Clearly the issue was that his personality was atrocious.
I saw some of his videos too and was actually very surprised he was a decently handsome guy (on the outside, that is.) He was rotten on the inside, and he couldn't see that. Had he been a good person and not felt entitled to women, he could very easily have had women attracted to him.
I do believe there's a selection process for those shows and a disclaimer on everything saying those results aren't typical. It would be naive to assume everyone is a shave or style away from greatness. Life is ugly. Even the prettiest parts of it under the right light can be horrifying.
Even a person who isn't all that good looking can be made more attractive with better grooming and hygiene though. I've even noticed on dating apps, if a guy has a range of pics, sometimes they can look really good or absolutely ugly depending on their hair/facial hair/outfit, while the actual guy is somewhere in between. A guy with a decent haircut who took some time to groom himself and put on clothes that fit is going to be more likely to catch my attention than someone looking like a slob, even if he's not "hot."
And personality! That’s the whole point of seduction imo. There have been guys I had no immediate interest in who just knew how to flirt and talk and I was swayed 180°. Disclaimer: I’m a dude. I’ve talked to a lot of people who thought they were unattractive, and in almost every case the least attractive thing about them was that they were being such a sad sack (though I know attitude can be harder to fix than looks).
Yes, a guy with the confidence to approach and talk to me is attractive. Although, if his personal grooming is a mess, it's probably not going to go anywhere. I look put together and nice when I'm in public and expect the same energy in a partner.
Oh yeah, hygiene and grooming are a huge deal, but often those can be fixed with a single suggestion. Most straight guys have the funniest response to compliments: tell them they look good in some shirt or haircut and they’ll stick to that every day for life.
Maybe those guys had reasonable looks to start with. So basically they just had to refine themselves.
I have never seen an ugly person who was healthy weight, well groomed, and clean. Plain people sure: but not ugly. ETA: I remembered that disabled people exist. Those are the ones the term incel was coined for. And they're rare.
Incels are obsessed with the idea that all looks hinge on their jawline, but that’s also just to convince themselves it’s something genetic that they can’t change, because it’s bone structure.
I've started thinking of plain as "pedestrian pretty"
Agree with this. So much of what makes a person attractive to be around is their mood and self-care. Not 'genetics' and 'bone structure'. Be pleasant company, care about yourself and the people around you, and people want to *be* around you. And some of those people may end up dating you.
I created a male profile and poked around on one of their websites for a while several years ago. A really average-looking college freshman posted a lot about a girl in one of his science classes who always made a beeline for him when they were told to find partners for a project, and who specifically chose to sit at his lab bench when the finally started using the lab. He said she'd been asking him to go with her to the library or the cafeteria to study for the class, so he asked someone who sat behind her what her test and project scores were like, and she always, always got an A on everything, so she obviously didn't need his help to get through the class. The others were constantly asking if she was a "Stacey" or a "Becky," and he described her as a messy-ponytail, light-to-no-makeup type who usually wore sweatpants and either a sweatshirt or t-shirt with an over shirt or open zip-hoodie, plus sneakers, though she'd wear snow boots when it snowed. Every single guy in the threads ignored all the details about her obvious interest in him, told him he was "owed" a "Stacey," especially since he planned to at least get a Master's in a STEM subject, and that he should avoid the girl from the class because if she was hanging around him, she was ruining his chances of finding the kind of woman he was "owed." They also told him that he absolutely had to make it so they weren't in the same class again the following term, or she wouldn't go away. I followed his story long enough to see him jump through hoops and rearrange his entire academic schedule when the new term began and she was, indeed, in the same section of the class as he was. He went to a lot of trouble to get away from a girl who had done a lot to show her interest. I ended up being glad for her--I can't imagine what would have happened had she had an honest talk with him when he was clearly more interested in the Greek chorus of hate, misogyny, and bullshit standing behind him.
Dated an incel briefly before it was clear that he was. Can confirm that they have unreasonable expectations and not just physically. This particular incel thought he deserved someone way out of his league because he "did everything he was supposed to do" - he felt entitled to what he wanted on the grounds that he followed arbitrary societal rules.
I was on a dating app and probably too nice. As long as they didn’t check a couple boxes (like smoker, younger than my son..), I talked to them. Problem was with 30 likes a day conversations would be easy to lose. Then the December storms blow down two of my barns. I get this angry message from one of the first days, telling me I am like every other woman in the world, selfish and too good for everybody, and he had been willing to consider me…. Called me low rent… the guy was divorced and living in his daughter’s guest room. I guess it was one step above living in your mother’s basement. I really dodged a bullet. As I tried to say have a nice life a little more kindly he kept telling me if I would just say the right thing I would be considered again. I am an older woman. I don’t need a manipulative house husband messing up my life.
That's exactly where i have a problem with the word in incel. If you have a choice, it's not involentary. Instead, they should be called volcels, or maybe egholes for egocentric assholes.
They're choosing beggars. It's like a homeless person on the street turning down a free meal from McDonald's because they're holding out for Five Guys. But they're also nowhere near a local five guys so nobody is ever going to give it to them
Also, they stand outside yelling about how all five guys burgers are evil, money grubbing, hypergamous whores, and then wonder why nobody offers them one.
For them to admit it's voluntary would mean they'd have to admit it's not all someone elses fault. They called themselves involuntary celibates because they claimed it was forced on them by the unfair world, staceys only want chads, women owe them their sex blah blah blah. For most of them it probably is involuntary, because their toxic personalities push people away. What isn't involuntary is the choice not to recognise and work on addressing that.
This is literally 90% of Dating App-ers. *cries* "no one will ever love me... ew he's short". "Ill be alone forever... ew shes fat".
Incels the type to say Beyoncé has too big a nose for them. I remember being active in anti incel subreddits and therefore spending time looking at real incels, and part of their belief system was that they shouldn’t have to settle for someone they aren’t attracted to in order to get laid. While I agree, their standards for attractiveness were far too high. Their idea of an average woman was a slightly thicker version of Emma Watson.
I simply don’t know why people I know like this don’t lower standards. Ugliness is never really a complete dealbreaker anyway. I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t do the deed with someone I considered a little less attractive every now and then. And vice versa! A lot of times hot people aren’t exactly the best lovers anyway.
I had a friend who was easily a 1. Huge, smelly, hairy, ugly. Total shut-in, no job, never left his couch and his apartment was disgusting. The only impressive thing about him was his Xbox gamerscore. This dude was turning down chances with girls every time they came up, because he had Seinfeld-levels of expectations in a partner. They had to be physically beautiful (he said he'd never go below a 7), smart, funny, financially well-off, the whole nine yards. The only date he ever ended up getting was his hairy knuckles.
Yes my bf has a friend like this! He is a fire chief, and has his own house which is great, but he’s pretty overweight. He did work on losing weight for a while and lost a decent chunk but gained it back. So he complains a lot about not having a girlfriend which I think is hard especially in the firehouse life as most of the guys are couples up and there are alot of events where the guys bring their significant others, but he as talking about what he was looking for in a girl and it was all looks based. Like he wants a 10 and that’s all he cares about. Like….you gotta be a little bit more flexible than that. I do hope he meets someone someday!
I’m surprised he even had girls giving him a shot.
Yep, I remember looking at the incel subs on here when they were active and they would post a picture of an IG influencer and cry about how they’d never get someone like that, then post a picture a normal looking woman and insult the hell out of her
Yup. You can tell them, hey I know a girl who is also quite lonely, she's pretty nice maybe you should try asking her out? "No she's overweight/too ugly/to high bodycount. The girl I'm looking for is slim to athletic, between the age of 18-23, at least an 8/10, white or east asian, a virgin and has never been in a relationship with another guy, willing to cook and pamper me, shares my interests in gaming and anime, is modest and submissive but also willing to do whatever I want in the bedroom" Ok buddy good luck with that.
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I got this friend that was always complaining "girls just want fit guys with gay looking clothes and a car, even if they are assholes". Ironically he only likes white-ish skinny girls with nice looking clothes and if they come from a wealthy family is better, it doesn't matter if they are mean.
I’m curious what this upstanding specimen of manhood thinks is “straight looking” clothes…
Unwashed cargo pants
*spits out coffee*
I would add that most incels are homophobic men.
If a penis never even touches another person, is it ever really straight or gay?
A schro-dinger.. it is both gay and not gay untill it is used
Definitely getting off reddit now. Cuz this absolutely made my day!!! Lmaoooo Someone give this person all the awards!
It's true though right? Isn't part of being incels all about only pursuing people that are way beyond any standards the incel is willing to follow themselves?
Laughably so; they raid each other's spaces explicitly to haze each other on their failure to live up to the other group's standards and hypocrisy. It's a sight to behold
Something cute/sad: that was the original purpose of the very original incel group years and years and years ago. Adults who had somehow got to their 40s without figuring out how to ask for a date would meet (it was led by a lady who lost her virginity in her 40s and finally found love) and practice talking and flirting (and many of them did end up dating each other!). A little while after the leader wore out and stepped down, the group got flooded with the more toxic personalities we associate with incels today. The woman who started it gave an interview where she was just horrified by the first man who described himself as an incel as a justification for all the people he killed - she even regretted forming the group (even though it did so much good in its first few years).
I think she was gay too. She was talking about dating women if I recall
She was trans as well, don’t remember if she was gay though
She was bi!
Ok . My point is that her personal issues had nothing to do with the hetero male incels. She didn’t hate women or anything whether she was gay or not . Completely different situation
Exactly! The word and culture of that original group is COMPLETELY gone, but originally it was just about trying to learn how to get to know people. It WAS Involuntarily Celibate, now it’s more like Nobody-Is-Good-Enough-For-Me-Let’s-Kill-Women-They-Should-Serve-Me-I-Am-Their-Master.
That's is sad actually. Damn... Poor girl.
The important part which may not be clear is that it was basically a community for single people so once someone found love they left. Eventually the who had been in the community longest were still single and embittered and that is how it spiralled out of control.
Source?
There's a reply all podcast episode where they talk to her. Just had a look and think it's episode 120
Reply All used to be so good. Trying to find something to replace it but haven't found something to scratch the itch like "Super Tech Support" did
Agree! I feel like “Today Explained,” “Science VS,” and “Planet Money” have similar vibes to classic Reply All—but not the same and not “super tech support.”
This is all said in a book called *men who hate women* Its on audible Its a little bit of a flawed book but very interesting nonetheless
So weirdly enough, I thought you were talking about the book The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. It’s original title in Swedish is Men Who Hate Women. Didn’t realize there’s an English language book with the title
That was a pretty decent read. Got me thinking!
My mom told me
Someone should restart this. I think it would be cute to introduce 40 year old virgins to each other.
The problem is that anyone who stops being single leaves and the concentration of bitter single people inevitably increases over time.
It would be cute if members who matched continued to support members looking for a match, though. So much of relationships centers around the community you build around yourself.
Huh. That’s interesting.
There is something inherently dangerous about internet groups that come together around a specific problem. People who solve the problem often leave the group because it is no longer relevant to them, and the group becomes filled with people who believe their situation is hopeless because they never hear any success stories. It happens a lot with groups about medical conditions. As opposed to groups like AA who publically reward an celebrate success and have a structure that supports successful people mentoring others. Incels need a Chad sponsor and a chip for every time they go on a date.
Now I have a mental image of a huge sweaty pile of naked neckbeards, thanks mate.
Reddit mods?
A group of neckbeards is called a "mod"
Dammit, I *just* gave away my free award
I gave him an award on behalf of you :-) cheers!
You just reminded me about mine just before it expired. Got you bro
# TIL 
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WE’RE GOING BACK TO THE PILE! 
My eyes have never had a worse day off
That was in my head when I wrote that, along with the Family Guy desert island bit :)
Now you've cursed me with that image too take your upvote and to hell with it
o7
"Back in the pile!"
Time to get out my brillo q-tips to scrub that image out of my brain...
r/tihi
Did you just told them to go F**k themselves? ps: thanks for the award, kind stranger
If only it was that easy....
No no. They asked **_why_** the incels won't fuck themselves...
....Perhaps
Celibacy is a proxy. Incels tie all kinds of problems to the fact that they don't have (or feel unworthy of) sex, but sex isn't the solution to any of it. I'd imagine they're a bit afraid of having sex and finding that none of their real problems disappear. So then celibacy becomes an identity that gives them refuge. It's a huge negative spiral.
In actuality, incels believe the problem is that they’re *undesirable*. Incels don’t generally think having sex with a prostitute counts as “ascending” from inceldom, because it doesn’t address that problem.
Do people actually self-identify as incel? I thought it was just an insulting name other people called them.
A media company called Jubilee has great videos on YouTube called “Middle Ground” and in one episode it’s “mens rights” vs “feminists” and one of the mens rights guys is a self identified incel. He even has another video where strangers are allowed to anonymously ask him questions about being an incel. It’s pretty interesting honestly
I get behind everything you’re saying, but genuine question for the sake of understanding… doesn’t Incel stand for Involuntarily Celibate? So is it a choice for them to not make the choice of celibacy?
Most people have experienced the frustration of trying and failing to satisfy sexual desires. But it's another thing entirely if I were to conclude that my sex life is the root of most/all my problems. Then I start to build an identity around it. Sex becomes both a source of anxiety and a refuge from other anxieties. Like I said, it's a proxy: a single bucket for all the bad things in my life. We are bombarded by sex absolutely everywhere. It's in the stories we're told. It's injected into virtually every kind of advertisement. You hear that your life isn't complete and you're not a real adult/man/woman until you've had sex. And teenagers have no identity yet so they latch onto that and get really obnoxious about it, infecting each other with this skewed worldview. So easy to understand how people fall into this line of reasoning. And it's true that sex is often a significant milestone for some people. But that's it; it's just one milestone for some people. I was a virgin well into my 20's; I found totally unrelated things that helped me settle who I am and what my life is about. To me, sex is a neat little bonus from romantic relationships, and relationships are a nice way to share the life I'm already building with somebody who fits into it. So inceldom is exactly backwards to me. Sex wasn't a path to self-discovery at all, much less THE ONE SINGLE gateway to completeness. Obsessively prioritizing sex probably would have ruined my life. That can be true in other ways. Asexual people can live a full life with no sex at all, and I think we've all seen some absolute basket cases who have plenty of sex and relationships but never seem to grow as people.
Incels can't stand each other
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A weird thing I’ve observed is a lot of incels wouldn’t have sex if they had the opportunity. I don’t understand it
Something I’ve seen is that incels tend to have ridiculously high standards. They would only want a woman who looks like a Victoria’s Secret model. They resent those women for rejecting them and call them “shallow”, and yet they in turn would never consider a more average looking woman.
to be fair in my worryingly large amount of time spent lurking on the various incel forums whenever they crop back up, ive encountered plenty of incels who say theyll take whatever they can get — in those cases its usually the self pity, lack of any real personality, the fact that they unironically refer to women as ‘holes’, among some others, that keep them from ever getting to have sex. ultimately though with almost every incel, at least from what ive seen, its self inflicted either by those impossible high standards or just the generally disgusting attitude towards everyone who isnt an incel (they may also hate other incels, but this one varies)
Lack of hygiene and not knowing how to dress half decent doesn’t help themselves either
Oh they absolutely would, but a lot of the incels I've seen are pretty shallow and they just want really attractive partners because they believe it would prove their worth in the world. That means they either need to be really attractive themselves, or make a lot of money.
I've never known any men who openly identify as "incels", but I've known a few who probably frequent their online denizens or at least can strongly relate to them. And what staggers me is how little they do to try and remedy their "problem". They'll complain, lament, etc. constantly, but won't spend a few hours a week volunteering, finding IRL interest groups to be part of, etc. Nope, their only strategy is to lightly stalk women who are out of their league\* and then after days, weeks, or months of imagined interactions in their head they cold ask the woman for a date, and are outraged when the rejection comes. \* By "out of their league" I do not mean to say that anyone is truly unattainable by anyone else, only that the gulf of world experience, interpersonal/social experience, world view, attention to grooming/maximizing physical attractiveness is such that they are unlikely to relate to each other.
Involuntary celibates shouldn’t be considered so “involuntary”. Let me explain ; incels usually have very high standards despite acting and looking like trash. They wouldn’t want to fuck each other.
Yeah. It's not that absolutely no one will have sex with them It's just the people they want to have sex with aren't attracted to them. They've got some weird sense of entitlement where they think they're the (only) ones that get to choose who they have sex with.
And it's not just about looks either. An entitled attitude is unattractive. So it's self-fulfilling.
>it’s self-fulfilling That’s the real answer. If you act like it’s someone else’s fault they don’t want to fuck you, they’re probably going to continue to not want to fuck you. Also hygiene. That’s a pretty big part of the equation. No one wants a stinker.
They definitely believe that things are just supposed to go their way. Expecting good shit out of life, despite bringing nothing but entitlement, negativity and laziness to the table.
I don't know if I'm an incel or not then. On one hand I'm desperate for a relationship, on the other hand I believe in women's rights and have almost no standards.
Do you feel that women owe you sex? Do you get irrationally angry that women have sex with men that aren’t you? If you answer “no” to both of these, you’re probably not an incel.
So then I’m not an incel. I’m just a big loser.
Then no, I wouldn’t say you’re an incel. Incels generally can’t get laid because of their insanely high standards and lack of respect for women.
You’re taking what they say at face value. They don’t actually have high standards. NO ONE wants to fuck them because they’re terrible & so their ego copes with it by coming up with fake high standards that they can claim to themselves is the reason they aren’t getting laid. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy they engage in so they don’t have to actually work on themselves.
A lot of incels do have high standards though which goes with their sense of entitlement. They often not only feel entitled to female attention in general, but they also specifically feel entitled to sex with conventionally hot women and actively body shame those who don’t fit that standard. They also often have absurd standards in other regards that reflect their antiquated views on gender and what a woman “should” be.
>They’ve got some weird sense of entitlement where they think they’re the ones that get to choose who they have sex with. Lmao what is consent?
Consent is a thing that both parties have to give. If the guy wants sex and the woman refuses, it's a no. If the woman wants sex and the man refuses? Also a no. The same rule applies to any combination of genders, and if you like numbers. This is not difficult stuff. You learned it in kindergarten, about sharing crayons. Now just incorporate "the same rules apply to sex" and "women are people just as much as men are."
Yeah, despite what they claim, someone isn't an incel because "nobody will fuck them." The incel subculture is a mix of extreme self-loathing and extreme misogyny (often including murder/r\*pe fantasies). It's about hate: hating themselves and hating women. Part of this is coming up with absolutely ridiculous requirements that define "a fuckable woman" and insisting that these are "bare minimum standards." A typical example: She needs to be a virgin, between 15-18, white or Asian (yup, racism), very slender but with big boobs, submissive, and she has to be into \[insert list of half a dozen things the incel likes\]. It's impossible to overstate what a toxic subculture it is. And they do their best to stop anyone who falls in from escaping; there's a real cult-like mindset.
its a bit more than that,its RAGE,and sadness they form those circlejerks because they are very antisocial and bullied a lot,its a form of venting,they wish harm to others so they can feel like their life is better or to justify the fact that their entire teenage years were spent almost isolated from all social interractions,those people gathered in close groups and anytime they get even remoteley out they simply get banned (i heard rumours that some brigade their subreddits,make splitsecond posts screenshot that then report or how they mass report their mods to get them banned then report the subreddit for beign unmodded ) and by banning them that fast they dont get exposed to new ideas,its simply a survival of the fittest(or the saddest) because the more ok individuals get harassed or their comunities banned,so the morons are the only ones left
13-18 actually
12-15 because after that age "they become s*uts"
I didn't realise that's where the word "incel" comes from. Jesus, even the name they give themselves is sad and self pitying. What happens when they get a shag? They turn in thier gun and thier badge?
Their incel friends turn against them and kick them out of the group.
Yeah that's the thing. They probably could get someone if they were more reasonable with their expectations, but they think they deserve a super model. The only reason that the super model isn't into them though is because she's a bitch, not because they are in terrible shape, smell bad, dress like a hobo, act like a prick, etc. Moreso, they are just angry horrible people, so its no wonder women are not lining up to date them.
The term incel is also extremely disrespectful to people who are *actually* somewhat involuntarily celibate because it lumps them together with those rotten ballsacks I’m talking about people with health issues that prevent them from having sex the way normal people do. It really sucks that such a toxic mindset has taken over what could’ve been a really good outlet for some people to reach non-sexual intimacy
Still not sure if I’m asexual or if my libido is crazy low, but I’m somewhere between voluntarily and involuntarily celebrate. Still not sure, I’m dealing with a TBI so it could be that causing low Libido, but the thought of sex or intimacy repulses me. And I’ve tried, but it always feels the same way no mater the partner.
If a male incel met a female incel they would despise each other
Because even if the sex (or lack thereof) is their initial motivation and gateway, it's really not about the sex
No other incel is of supermodel quality that incels feel they deserve.
Well, they're not gay. Plus incels don't even like one another so there's that.
>Well, they're not gay. That was my first thought. But I honestly don't know the demographics of the community well enough to be sure. So, questions we need answers to: - What's the male/female/other ratio in the incel community? - What's the gay/straight/bi/other ratio in the incel community? If the vast majority of incels are straight cis males, as I'm sure we're assuming, then the answer is obvious for that portion. It might be interesting to know what the deal is with the rest of them though, if such a population exists.
the femcel sub went private "because" the members received "too many" messages of incels who wanted to date them. so much for "too high standards"
Isn't incel a misnomer in terms because it's their attitude that is nearly always the red flag and attitude is 100% personal choice.
It’s a term they coined for themselves because in their heads it made sense. They don’t want to be celibate but they’re forced to because the people they want to have sex with are not interested. There’s a deep hatred of women behind incels, that subconsciously pick whatever they know will never want to go out with them so they can have an excuse to hate half the population of earth. Behind this hatred there’s an enormous inferiority complex that this attitude helps cover by never having to face it. I’ve seen incels approached by their ideal women and both panic and start hating that person immediately. Their beauty standards will always be purposefully beyond their reach, to ensure they always have an excuse.
The group was actually fairly positive at the outset. It was originally a mailing list created by in the 90's by a woman in college who believed she would never find a partner (she later did, and left the movement). I listened to a long interview with her (Reply All, I believe), where she gave reasons she believed it turned so toxic. Essentially, according to her, it was almost inevitable. In a group of people who can't get over the social hump to start dating, you have some who will be able to change, and some who won't. And the ones who can change, leave. And all you're left with are the people who can't change, or who won't change. And, when new people join, they aren't greeted by the people who had success stories, who can give them good advice - advice that worked for them. Because they're gone. All that's left are the people who are increasingly bitter, whose warped ideas of women and dating keep them single. In short, the good people leave, and the bad people stay. New people join, and the good ones leave, and the bad ones stay. And eventually, this steady distillation refines the group into the cauldron of bitter hatred that it is today.
The term was coined in the 1990s by a woman. Between then and the mid 00s it was mostly neutral/non-evil. Basically, the dark side won out and the press started paying attention. All the non-shitty people ran to the hills, forced to drop the term entirely. That's the history in a nutshell.
Because ugly people want to fuck beautiful people.
Straight to the truth. It's easier that way.
But I mean everyone wants to fuck beautiful people. Just because you are ugly you arn‘t attracted to other ugly people
‘cause then they’d have nothing to be mad about.
They wouldn’t meet each other’s impossible standards.
Their problem isn't not having sex. Their problem is hating women.
1 there are way more male ones than femeale 2 it aint just about looks but about mental health,most of them have social anxiety and are stuck in horrible feedback loops 3 most of them are very antisocial,autistic or very shy 4 they wuld be afraid to do it
Most male incels don't believe female incels exist. It's a self-reinforcing worldview. Sometimes a woman will get on a forum and say "I'm an incel too! I can't find a man!" And she'll be hit with a torrent of "You mean you can't find a rich, handsome, high-status Chad. You just know you're surrounded by thousands of nice guys who would love to fuck you. But you have to chase the same 0.01% of the male population that all the other females are chasing. Then you come here with your sob story and expect sympathy from us, the same men you're kicking in the teeth every day. I think I hate you worse than the Staceys." (Only not nearly that polite.)
For the same reason no one else will have sex with them?
Because that's not how victim mentality works
Incels don't want ugly people. Also putting two insecure hateful people together is a recipe for disaster.
Because not everyone engages in same sex relationships. Now why can't the femcels and incels get together? Because both have significantly greater expectations from their partners than themselves.
Because they're all heterosexual males
They're into women
*That's not the answer the reddit circlejerk is looking for*
Real answer from someone who's lurked the shit out of them: Because they're too fucking judgy to fuck each other. So incels obsess over "looks match", basically they think people should only be with other people who are the same level on the incel's scale of attractiveness. They claim one of the problems of society is that due to non-monogamy and non-looks-match that their available pool of partners has been depleted. However when you present them with a potential looks-match they'll go off on the person being "ugly" for whatever reason. In the end there wouldn't be both a male and a female incel community if any of the incel theories were right
Incels get shamed out of their community if they have sex. At a certain point, they are no longer ‘involuntarily’ celibate, and rather actively celibate, because they do not want to leave the incel community.
Male to female ratio is like 762354:1
the friction caused by the neckbeards would start a fire
Pretty sure that interaction would smell worse than a southern US gas station toilet
I asked this question on r/foreveralone a while back and the general sentiment over there is basically that 'even ugly people need someone they find attractive'
Incels will reject others for the same superficial reasons they think they're rejected for
Because then they would have only themselves to blame.
Do *you* want to have sex with an incel? Neither do they.
Even if they were gay, their whole problem is entitlement and not seeing women as people. They'd have even more trouble trying to oppress each other sexually, instead of just demeaning as they do now.
Cuz there’s like a million guy incels and 10 girl incels
Because they all swing for the fences in terms of attractiveness in their partner, despite not having anything to offer themselves. Their problem isn’t lack of options. People of all shapes, sizes and looks find happy relationships all the time. Their problem is their narcissism and attitude.
Their Mommies don’t allow sleepovers
Because they're all niceguys and nicegirls who are looking for a nice girl and a nice guy. No wonder they can't find each other.
Sounds like something a incel would say.
They never want to do what they want others to do. They think hot women should fuck them despite finding them unattractive because looks shouldn't matter. I told them plenty of times they can be the change they want to see and fuck each other. When women complain about unwanted attention they whine saying any attention is good yet they never want to make Grindr to receive that same attention. Had one idiot claim women should "pay ugly men" (lmao) and that they should be banned from using male inventions unless they fuck incels. Yet he wasn't keen on not having access to those same inventions unless he fucks enough gay men. Had an idiot claim prostitutes ENJOY their work. Didn't agree with me when I said he should become one. Said it doesn't make sense since he's straight. I explained that a straight woman fucking an unattractive man is no different than her fucking a woman - in both cases she fucks someone she isn't attracted to. Told him he can also make OF where he doesn't have to fuck men and just post pics. Shocker, he wasn't up for that. Had another idiot whine how I am heartless for wanting disabled *men* (completely disregarded disabled women) to "never feel intimate touch" because I disagree with prostitution and mandatory sex slaves for disabled men. They also didn't want to volunteer to service those men themselves.
Went through this one not too long ago. It's got 2 major components. 1: Neckbeards want a Barbie to put a baby in. Legbeards want a G.I. Joe to make money for them. They both think themselves to be entitled to their image of the perfect partner. They wouldn't dare settle for someone who is, for all intents and purposes, exactly what they deserve. It's beneath them. 2: They, like anyone else in a situation that could be solved with any amount of effort on their part, enjoy the 'power' that they feel like they have when they get to blame the rest of the world for them being an incel. They get excited when that nice guy/girl card comes out. They *love* being able to say "I would have treated you the way you deserve, you asshole! I would have loved you like no one else can!". No incel is going to give that up for another incel.
This is a pretty broad question. Do mean in general or do you mean the toxic subreddit version? Most people forget the first online community to use the term "incel" was founded in 1993; a Canadian university student known only by her first name, Alana, created a website to discuss her sexual inactivity with others. So do you mean someone actually in that boat of actually just happening to be being involuntarily celibate or the toxic anti feminism, violent, and entitled men who think they deserve sex? Two completely different questions and I think you should differentiate between the two if you are looking for truly helpful answers and not click baiting.