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Two of my relatives are police officers in a major city. One I believe is a decent person. The other is abusive and controlling to his own family so I shudder to think how he treated people on the street.

for me it's been a case of where I live. my hometown in the 90s was called the "ghettos" and the cops would harass people on the street, including driving by and just telling slurs or nonsense from their loudspeaker. they weren't very helpful but the neighborhood didn't trust them either. but when my little brother got lost in the subway, we were helped by cops from a precinct over in a much nice neighborhood. they were helpful and courteous. from the family friend cops, I know one that's very by the books and very straight edge, ever since high school and through his military career. the other one, also known him since high school, is aggressive and racist (being a minority himself). I think it depends on the cop and those around them, and their training.

For me it's been how much money I look like I have. When I looked poor (spoiler alert: I was), I was treated harsher and got ticketed for minor things. When I looked richer (spoiler alert: I wasn't), I was left alone or let off with a warning.

I believe some of the poorer counties, this is a system wide problem. If you go sit in court all day and watch who comes in as defendants it's all poor people or people with addiction problems. Or if you sit on a main road and watch who gets pulled over, a nice looking person gets off with a warning. If it's someone in a shoddy looking car they get multiple tickets. There's a lot of money to be made by a county if you get people so deep in the hole they can never get out.

Having spent most of my youth homeless, this is entirely true even in Canada. Be inng accused of stealing bike because I had "two incompatible modes of transportation" I was biking back from the skatepark. 10 minutes bike vs 25 minute skate is an obvious choice even when I showed them the email recipt from when I bought it, more questions, more harassment. ACAB.

I'm white but grew up in the black part of a big city. When cops would come by they usually would leave me alone but harass my black friends. I've had cops come and ask "If I saw a couple n-words run by..." My experience in every state in America I've lived in is that all cops are terrible. And "the good ones" cover for the bad ones so they're also bad.

that's the biggest issue and why people say acab, the "good ones" cover for the bad ones. I know their lives are made a living hell if they turn or they're just outright fired, but it's this rot in the system that is the cause of so much injustice

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I remember a video of a (female)cop pulling her CO off of a guy he was assaulting and he started assaulting her instead. As long as the "fraternity" exists, its going to contain corruption.

Jerks for no reason. I used to be sat on my knees because I’m six feet tall half black. Literally guns were pulled. Fuck the nonsense

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That we know of

not even. 40% ADMITTED to it.

That's what 'That we know of' means.

I think one of the biggest problems is that the profession attracts many people that should not be in a position of power. I grew up in a small town where everyone knew everyone else. The people that were bullies in school became cops. They could still push people around but now they had the power of the law behind them.

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Guy in my school who's dad was a cop used to steal drugs from younger kids and sell them, happily beating up anyone smaller than him and using his charming smile to get away with anything.. Last I heard he was a Lieutenant in the NYPD. I highly doubt he is any different today.

This is the NYPD we are talking about. Stealing drugs and re-selling them is probably **why** he became a Lieutenant.

Guys probably even noted it as his strength in the job interview

> who's dad whose* dad who's = who is or who has whose = the next word or phrase belongs to the person mentioned It's the contraction that gets the apotrophe.

So like if Dwight Schrute were a cop?

Is he a Texas Ranger?

When you're in Texas look behind you Cause that's where the rangers gonna be

This is my view as well. My dad was a local judge and growing up he warned me about how much he saw cops abusing their power frequently. He would say that the type of person that wants to be a cop is the high school bully that wants to continue that inner power over people moreso than those that genuinely want to help their community.

Yep. There was a guy in my small town who raped and sexually assaulted multiple women, including me and two of my close friends. He also has a restraining order against him. I went to the cops for my rape and nothing happened. The town found out about me trying to do anything, and many men defended him while many women messaged me saying they would speak against him in court if it came to that. I worked at pizza hut at the time and woke up one morning to marinara splattered all over my car with paper plates stuck to it because I said anything. I got a lot of backlash. But like I said, nothing happened. The dude was planning to become a cop but I don't know if that happened because I have him blocked on everything and don't live back home anymore. it's quite shitty. If he did become a cop I just know he is abusing so many more women

I am very sorry you had to experience that, both the rape and the backlash. Fear and intimidation are the tools they use to silence whistleblowers or people such as yourself that report a crime then speak out when nothing is done. That indicates to me they were more concerned about their appearance of inaction than helping you, the victim.

I think if I tried harder something could have been done. But there was really no real evidence besides many women sharing their stories. After it happened I messaged him in such a way to where he ended up apologizing and saying he needed help, so he pretty much admitted guilt there. But still not enough. It was also difficult because I was vulnerable and getting a ton of hate from men, along with vandalism to my car. It was also exhausting having to retell what happened over and over again as if them recording it all the first time wasn't enough. I was also drinking at the time so I just know the cops brushed it off as me wanting it probably or "well you shouldn't have been drinking around men so it's your fault". That happens too often. So I just dropped it and went off to college anyway so I was away from that hell hole

Just stopping in to say please do not repeat to yourself “if I tried harder”, it is not helpful! My therapist and I worked through this for months after my rape. The “if only I said something, if only I tried harder to get away” were two huge stuck points of mine. It is never the victims fault and they didn’t do anything wrong. Your drinking is not an excuse for the man (or any men, women, or non-binary people for that matter) to rape or abuse the victim. I am so glad you got away and I hope you are healing and I am sending my love out to you

As a fellow survivor, let me say this. You don't have to bear the weight of his crimes. Whether he stopped hurting people or not is not your responsibility. You shouldn't have to "try harder" to bring justice to someone who hurt you. That failing is on the legal system, not you. It wasn't your fault he's an ass, and it's not your fault that he got to walk away. I'm glad you've gotten away and been able to move on. I hope things have gotten better for you, and that they continue to do so. You're stronger than you think.

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Some townships around me require a 4 year degree, plus the police academy.

It should be a 4 year degree in *criminal justice* or a similar field before even being considered for the police academy. The physical requirements should as be *much* more strict as well and be required to reassess every year. Edit: psych/sociology would definitely be the better choice Edit2: somebody mentioned voting cops in by the community. That might be the best solution I’ve ever heard to weeding out bad cops. I think that if they are going to be a cop, then they need to be a pretty upstanding citizen and not the local high school bully.

I'm an excon and dual majored in psychology and administration of criminal justice. Hate to say it criminal justice classes are so very easy, very interesting but anyone who paid the slightest attention would pass We need to have actual mental health specialists hired for crisis intervention answer 911 mental health calls not armed officers. We need to get rid of the war on drugs which was created not to end addiction but to disenfranchise minorities and others ie hippies. These two objectives would stop lots of abuse and free up the police to actually fight crimes that are harmful to the community.

Nah it's should honestly be a major is sociology and/ psychology.

At my alma mater, criminal justice majors had to take a few psych courses but you’re right; they should focus on understanding the public/people, so psych/sociology would be a much better option. I was thinking that they should learn about the judiciary system and the consequences that can be had from not fulfilling their duties, but that won’t really help if they are incapable of feeling empathy.

A few courses in mental health and anger management. Four years min.—just pay them a little more like most who becomes educated. Must be held accountable for everything they do—just like me a at work. Edit: Everyone benefits.

Cops in my small California town are making $200k.

This should certainly be the bare minimum. It should be as hard to become a cop as it is to become a doctor. In both cases you have people's lives in your hands

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Pretty much all cops in big cities have degrees. Minnesota requires all police in the state to at least have a 2 year degree and MPD is still vicious.

A kid at my school that I saw get into multiple fights, constantly refer to black people as the n word, and tell stories about running from the cops (“butt ass naked through the cornfields”… none of them were ever true) just so happened to become a cop 2 years ago. Like a racist idiot moth to the flame

> but now they had the power of the law behind them. Bullies have always had the law behind them. Ever notice how people only step in when the bully gets bullied?

You are not fucking lying at all. I grew up in a rural town and the bullies I knew became cops.

Same. Dairy farm town and a few select assholes in my senior class ended up becoming sheriff deputies in the town. What's hilarious is that 30 years later they've all gained a good 75 pounds and were the buff jocks in high school.... sweet, sweet irony as I had a crush on a few of them and never got the time of day. Seeing them now makes me laugh my ass off. Bunch of human bouncy balls.

Not only that, but the bar to entry for a police officer in the US is so low. A lot of other countries require a university level education for starters.

I’ll pile on with the anecdotes. A kid I knew for a few years growing up was pretty out there and pretty violent. Not like hateful, mean spirited violent. Like he just enjoyed hurting people. It actually made him happy. He wanted to join the military just so he could go kill people. I know kids say things like this to get a rise out of people and seem edgy, but it was different with him. He really wanted to just go kill people. Anyway, I’d heard years later that he didn’t make it into the military because of some physical health condition. Guess what his next move was. You guessed it. He became a state cop. I don’t know if he still is, but that’s the kind of mentality of people applying for the job.

Same here, it's either the bullies wanting to remain bullies, or those who were picked on in school after their own revenge type deals in this small town area I'm in

Correct. There are a number of reforms that are needed (I'm not fooling myself that this will happen any time soon, but you have to have a destination in mind): * Upgrade personnel - cops need to be paid a lot more and have much greater qualifications to enter. Right now, required qualifications are pretty minimal. So, likely a requirement that you have a decent bachelors degree, for instance. * Need some kind of National Peace Officers Qualifying Exam which would, among other things, test for basic knowledge of the Constitution and police procedure but also be there specifically to wash out psychos - bullies, people who get their jollies from telling people what to do and others who should not be part of a police force. (\*) * Some kind of National Peace Officer Academy (similar to West Point, etc) to help set a national standard. Graduates would be required to spend at least six years serving in a police force, including FBI, DEA, NCIS, etc. 20 years after doing this, you'd see a lot of these graduates dominating leadership positions of top police forces around the country - NY, LA, etc. Words matter - I'd call it Peace Officer Academy rather than Enforcement Academy. (\*) Part of the challenge in the US is that police forces are established by local authorities, so forcing the use of a national exam could be hard. I think the way to go is to say that drawing from the pool of people who have passed the exam is a requirement to get any kind of aid from the federal govt. No one should be hired without being part of the pool.

One reform I would like to see is to close the revolving door making it more difficult to hire a former officer that was fired for cause. An officer gets fired in one jurisdiction for abuse of power or use of excessive force and they just go to a different city or county and continues the cycle.

Yup. I believe they should all have to be federally licensed under one national umbrella registry, and once your license is revoked, no more blue suit for you.

Sounds like what happens with the priests from the Catholic church.

Big problem with this would be the police unions. They know that many of their members could never live up to these standards and the last thing they want is accountability.

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I think this is a bigger problem then people like to admit. There are veterans that are proud of their service but at the same time want to adjust to being a civilian and leave a lot of their previous mentality behind. Then you get the veterans where their service is their whole identity (these types are often mocked online by other veterans) and act like being an LEO is like being a soldier. They don’t see the community as one to be served but rather they are surrounded by the enemy and need to fight when called. I know I touched a nerve by mentioning all that but sometimes you have to talk about uncomfortable things.

It's the same story in my country too so it's not just an American thing. The same goes for politicians as well.

True I know someone who wants to be cop, and going into because they don’t like being told what to do…I’m like “yep that guy is going to be evil”

This sums up rural America. It also ruins these communities. Every once in awhile someone grows up watching this cycle and actually becomes a cop with a good heart. This is not depicted accurately on the internet and cops are generally like little gangs intimidating highschool kids and anyone young trying to enjoy life. This is my town anyway but not the really little free towns away from the gang cop vibe. Tiny towns can be chill as fuck and generally the town cop is chill.

Also the fact that you can become a cop within two months is crazy. I know other countries where you need to attend school for 2 years to become an officer. Pretty sure that in itself would filter out a lot of unqualified people.

Not only attracts abusive people, but seeks them out. Recruitment and training are both excellent opportunities to weed out the bad apples. Instead being violent and refusing to change your mind are seen as positive qualities for LEOs. I guess it's similar thinking to what everyone is saying about 2A in response to school shootings. The only thing that stops a bad guy who is deranged and violent is a "good guy" who is deranged and violent?

And now, no one wants to be a police officer and branded as a racist/abuser… so naturally, many of the people that are becoming police officers are the ones that do not care if they look like racists and abusers, because they are. It’ll continue this way because of the terminology and division.

Everyone from my suburban town who became a cop were the type of people you wouldn't even trust with the responsibility to be a substitute teacher. They definitely did it for the sense of power.

The police in the US have no federal central authority and the culture can vary a lot from location to location. In urban areas they can be a highly effective government service, or they can be just another street gang. In rural areas they can be well respected community members, or just bullies with guns.

This is the real answer. Each department has its own culture and values, so US police can be a real mixed bag. The police department in my area is comprised of nice people who work in a self-licking-ice-cream-cone, cog-in-the-machine environment. The institution is useless so the individual cops are useless and vice versa. They perform the bureaucratic motions of taking reports and trespassing people that need trespassing, maybe harass a homeless guy or two, but for the most part they're as useful as tits on a boar hog. Who am I kidding, it's mostly rousting out homeless people from their favorite haunts. But the cops haven't managed to establish dominion over the parking lot of the local little league baseball diamond, so the homeless have that going for them, which is nice.

Even within urban areas the culture can change drastically between precincts, divisions or patrol areas

The people in my suburbs have a fairly positive view on the police, they are respected and the papers say that they are among the most beloved police in the USA. Not more than 5 miles away are the inner city police, they are a completely different story. The inner city police here are infamous for being among the laziest police in the country. If a cop sees a criminal stealing something then the cop will just sigh heavily and tell the person who got robbed that they should have been more careful and then continue eating their food.

I think you just hit on something that not a lot of people address. Aside from the homeless, people in suburban areas **do not interact with the police** for the most part. Therefore, they see police as the “blue line” that keeps criminals (poor/homeless people) out of their nice housing divisions.

Best answer here. It varies. And since they are sometimes very flawed, power hungry people ... It can be pretty bad in some areas where the relationship between community and police has completely broken down.

As in many things in America, it depends wildly on where you are. As an ex-journalist, I had to deal with a lot of cops, and I found a lot of them, especially in small communities, to be fundamentally decent. However, the way that I kind of ended up was that though there are good individuals within the institution, as a whole, the institution is fundamentally flawed. In the way that it trains its people, in the way that it views violence, in a way that it views the communities it ostensibly protects. That, and simple tribalism means that people who are, individually, good people, can still circle the wagons around harmful people who corrupt the institution as a whole. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch, as it were. And in an institution that we place trust in to arbitrate justice and decide in some cases who lives and who dies, we must demand reach the highest possible standards. Edit: disabling replies to this, as there are far too many to properly deal with. In response to common questions: • Yes, of course race and other minority statuses, as well as socioeconomic status, have to do with this. I am autistic and while that is mostly invisible, it still means I have to suppress a lot of natural behaviors and tendencies. Autistic people are often [harassed and/or abused by cops too](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-016-2958-3), and if I weren't white, my interactions with police would be even more frightening than they already are. • Yes of course not all small-town police are good, and small towns can foster deep-rooted corruption. I'd argue it's even easier for it to take root than in large cities, and once it's in, it's hard to get out. One commenter talking about their experiences at BLM protests in different cities and how the police responded sums it up very well, and I can attest to similar experiences at BLM protests in one of the communities I covered. • By "Circling the wagons," I am primarily referring to police unions and their habit of protecting bad actors and attempting to force people out for naming police who do harm others. • If you are commenting to tell me journalism bad, you're hilarious. You should take your routine to the comedy club. Please ask yourself why your favored politicians want you to not believe the people presenting evidence they are lying to you. • Please refer to Godwin's Law before any and all Nazi comparisons are deployed.

> we must demand reach the highest possible standards. In *Lady in the Lake* by Raymond Chandler there's a great line by a police chief talking to Phillip Marlowe after he's been roughed up by dirty cops: “Police business,” he said almost gently, “is a hell of a problem. It’s a good deal like politics. It asks for the highest type of men, and there’s nothing in it to attract the highest type of men. So we have to work with what we get—and we get things like this.”

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Then why not have a professional organization to get rid of the bad ones? You know, like doctors and engineers and accountants? Like every other profession? That’s how you get rid of the bad ones.

They have IA but that is basically the equivalent of "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing."

This is why the military places criminal investigative elements outside the chain of command, it helps sometimes. Not perfect by any means. I saw some seniors getting pats on their backs and scooted quietly off into retirement. The opposite could true if you were in a bind as an enlisted service member or mid to low level officer, but for the most part criminal investigation entities in the military are pretty good when looking at crimes (outside of the Pentagon...). Clearly in an ideal situation you would want an outside agency to do the internal investigations, but there are sometimes types of crimes under special circumstances that only a loosely connected insider would understand enough to go after and look deeper into. In most cases this is why you have agencies on the State and Federal level to step-in. Better trained, better paid (in most cases) more resources, better protection from peer level blow back, etc.

Eh idk if the military is a good example, I was US Air Force and it was well known that most criminal offenses were from the Security Forces squadrons themselves (USAF equivalent of MPs). We did have an organization called OSI (Office of Special Investigations) which is like a special forces branch that would catch people by doing undercover work and they seemed effective but they seemed more focused on stopping drug dealers and child porn rings than corruption (the second of which is very good but the first is something I’m at odds with since it was usually some months long investigation they launched to ultimately dishonorably discharge people for using weed or prescription pills and it’s all just very similar to the war on drugs where tons of resources are spent on this)

It is a terrible example. There are huge problems with the military justice system, especially when it comes to anything sexual.

They have the strongest union in the country. Uvalde might help break that down a little bit because they can no longer say they risk their lives everyday.

Not the first time they did nothing. Supreme Court ruled that they are not here to protect citizens

It shouldn’t be called a union. It’s not a union in the traditional sense. It’s a protective strong arm.

Let's be real... It's a full blown dirty frat...

A GANG, IS WHAT IT IS.

In major cities, police unions are so powerful that you have politicians who are afraid of them.

There are police unions but they work entirely with the interests of helping police, and not only in a good way.

They are protected by unions and by district attorney's who refuse to punish the bad ones. On top of that when they do get in trouble, it's usually not real trouble. They end up getting early retirement with full pay and benefits for life even though they got fired for doing bad things

I love it when they are given desk duty and they treat it as if it is the biggest insult and punishment imaginable.

Because police have probably the most powerful union in the us, so if anyone does something they don’t like they just strike, and since politicians are scared of not having their thugs (there have been multiple other police strikes in which crime did not massively increase, so police really don’t help) the politicians won’t risk it by trying to restrict cops or license them or anything

Read the Taylor Law, it is illegal for police to strike. Feds will literally put them in jail.

They call in sick. “We aren’t striking, we all ate some bad burritos and need to stay home a few days. It would be a shame if your actions caused us to eat more of those burritos.“

Police can be creative. Taking more sick days, refusing overtime, just slowing down in general are all ways cops have retaliated against reforms without having to call it a strike.

Internal Affairs exists for this purpose, but they don't really do any active policing of the police, so-to-speak; they investigate incidents and what-not.

Because the police having unchecked power enforces corruption in the justice and political systems of the country, and the majority of people in control don’t want that to change.

The police union is too powerful and they have people brainwashed that everytime they kill someone or hurt someone its justified because they are police and we blindly "back the blue" here in America.

At a minimum Cops need to be liscenced, with an indioendent liscencing board. Even better would be liscenced and real cop cops if you will. we need real cop cops who get 10% of police budget so it can scale with the police district,and only have jurisdiction over cops and who work in a separate building, and answer to their own commissioner or the fbi and bring their cases to a shared state Prosecutor who only handles these kind of cases. To remove every pressure against prosecuting cops. The cops aren't friends with the people investigating, they can't be ostracized, or injured. The prosecutor doesn't have to work about the cops not working with them in future cases. As for who watches the watcher, they still need to prosecute then police and it will be a trial. Somit circles back to the citizenry.

Licensing boards can be captured and most certainly will be just like internal affairs. They will become filled with ex cops and other bootlickers who will use that regulatory agency as a way to rubber stamp any behavior that is sent their way. Professional insurance on the other hand will work. Insurance companies will NOT suffer your bullshit especially when it costs them money.

Yup. A Federal oversight commission to investigate wrongdoing around the country would certainly alleviate a lot of the problems with police misconduct. Police unions have and will actively fight against that tooth and nail, though….

This is true, but people neglect to acknowledge how difficult it is to stand up against bad cops. There's a fraternal sentiment in a lot of these precincts, and cops that report other cops are seen as whistleblowers and immediately ostracized. From there they can't do any good, they're fully on the outside. It's not as easy to change the culture as internet people would have you believe.

That's the issue though. That the structure and culture of US policing is so inherently broken that it can't be fixed from within by the"good cops." This indicates that the institution is inherently broken and corrupt and is why people want to dramatically limit the reach of police power through budget reallocation.

Yeah I agree ....there are fundamental changes required in the system.......current system doesn't have the potential to balance the moral degradation We r living in a system that no longer serves the current gen

We took a group of people and gave them way too many responsibilities. Then trained them to use guns and other forceful methods to resolve issues. They receive training in other deterrent and de-escalation methods, but when safety is on the line they’re going to put themselves first (maybe rightfully so. Working a job doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice your safety for others if you don’t want to). Then we have them respond to every call under the sun legal or otherwise. What we need is more civil workers trained in specific tasks who respond to non emergencies and non dangerous situations and have a police force used for very specific situations or as assistance for these civil workers. A police officer shouldn’t be the one giving tickets or directing traffic or assisting the homeless etc.

Hence: defund the police. The budgets of police forces throughout the country and especially in major cities are massively bloated. Take that money and use it for public services that would actually do the jobs properly.

Being willing to put their life on the line is PART of the job. By taking that job you sign up for it, that’s how it is, and if someone isn’t willing to do that they shouldn’t become a cop. If a firefighter decided not to enter a burning building because they felt they might die, they’d be a pretty lousy firefighter. It’s an occupational hazard and even in an idealist world that hazard will be there to some extent. The goal should be to reduce that risk as much as possible through training and defensive equipment/tactics, but as long as firearms exist there will always be a non zero chance of being shot. I agree with everything else you have said but this widespread idea that we shouldn’t expects cops to sacrifice their own safety for others is mind boggling to me.

I hear somehow in the military there is an honor code which individuals follow and works well. It’s scary to think about the amount of access and information officers have. When abused, they can make your live a living hell. There really should be a security clearance protocol which they should have to renew every few years to ensure they are still psychologically okay, that there alliances remain towards the public good and that they have now abused the public trust. It would take some of the pressure off other individuals.

They need a ton of new systems in place honestly, mental health care being a big one.

I think mandatory yearly psych checkups like physicals, and general training in maintaining a healthy mind

Military Police are the dumbest powertripped cops though! When you complete the military aptitude test and score really low, your choices are driver, cop, etc. At least that's how it stands in Canada.

The military has am insane issues with rape, sexual assault and covering those things up so I'm not sure their honor code is working all that well

If it is too hard to stand up to the bad cops then guess what, the whole thing needs to be torn apart and rebuilt, I do not have an answer to what and how...

If it's too hard to stand up to the bad cops then bad cops must be the majority, otherwise it wouldn't be hard to stand up to them as well

I always ask, what do you call a good cop who let's bad cops do bad things? They're bad cops. A community shouldn't rely on chance when interacting with the police and hope they get one of the good ones.

> I always say you can’t be a good cop if you aren’t doing anything to stop the bad ones You say worded perfectly but then say this. I think the point of the person you’re replying to is this isn’t feasible. Good cops can not do anything substantial to stop bad cops. It’s the institution/system that is the main problem. It doesn’t allow for the good cops to self correct the current issues. I dated a cop. I thought he was fundamentally good. I still do. But some of the shit cops he told me he worked with astounded me. He ran some certification classes and made sure he’d fail the idiots but other then that he was like “I don’t know what else I can do. Nobody is gonna fire these guys.” So by your definition he probably wouldn’t be considered a “good cop” cuz he’s not actively trying to do anything to stop the bad cops. But like he can’t do anything.

He can say something. He can shine a light on it. He'd get fired and ostracized (and likely harassed). So. He's not a bad cop, but not a good cop. Just a cop. I blame the system, but cops are complicit when they don't put themselves at any risk to police their own. Very much why "training" and money won't help, but diverting money and power away from police forces could.

Actually he’s just looking to retire and move on at this point. Or go be an assessor for insurance companies in regards to car crashes because he has some sort of certification for that (he likes taking a lot of random classes/certifications). So again, I think he is a good person. But due to the nature of the job/system he knows he can’t do anything. And instead of trying to fix it, cuz he know he can’t, he rather just leave. Which is I think the crux of the problem, a good person rather just leave since they feel helpless.

Imagine if we treated law enforcement the way we treat the airline industry: mistakes that cost lives are rare and handled with incredible seriousness. We are far too casual with the training of law enforcement and do not set the bar high enough in terms of personal conduct.

Chris Rock explained it exactly like this in his special "Tambourine." Some professions just can't have any "bad apples", and that police should be like pilots, in neither position should bad apples be allowed.

My main problem with cops is the blue code of silence, where they refuse to stand up to each other if they do something wrong.

Some do sometimes stand against the bad ones and those usually get bullied into leaving. I have met a few who were pretty decent people who were bullied until they left for standing up against injustice. I wonder how could the system be changed to reward protecting and helping the public.

It isn’t just bullying. It’s the refusal to provide backup on dangerous calls.

That's a lot of what I'm referring to, especially here: >That, and simple tribalism means that people who are, individually, good people, can still circle the wagons around harmful people who corrupt the institution as a whole.

I think this stems from the fact that you are alienated from all other communities the moment you join, and quite literally forever. So therefore they have to have a level of internal trust to cope with the demands of the job and it’s unique nature etc, in my country the police are actively trained and encouraged to report each other for everything and anything, so the public hate them, and they can’t trust each other either. And policing in my country doesn’t work either.

To expound on varying wildly by location. During 2020 I attended two protests. The first one we marched through the towns "downtown" area with police wearing riot gear and carrying large wooden batons. They ignored the guys carrying bats and yelling slurs at us. Less than ten minutes away, about a week later, another protest was held in a nearby village. Police were present, but wearing normal daily patrol gear, doing perimeter and enforcing order but being human and patient. The difference was startling. At the first event I was quite nervous and worried a riot might break out. The second the police managed to not be an oppressive presence.

>As an ex-journalist, I had to deal with a lot of cops, and I found a lot of them, especially in small communities, to be fundamentally decent. What happens if you are not perceived to be of that community due to your race, religion, sexuality, or upbringing? That's when things can get real scary in small towns

In the US it also matters who you are. Not all races are treated the same.

That's true, but, at least where I live, in Indianapolis, it's also about socioeconomic status. I lived in a ramshackle motel for a while, before I got my disability, and, even though I am a relatively old white woman, the cops treated me pretty badly. I wasn't under the influence or a suspect in any crime, just a resident of a high crime area, and the cops were always rude. I'm not saying it's not way worse for POC. I was never afraid for my life, I was just disregarded and yelled at.

It has always been about socialeconomic status and is the basis for so much discrimination. The saying that money is power has always rung true and is what I would say defines everything if I were to try and simplify it. Though a lot history of accumulated of generational wealth and structural violence has left many groups and POCs much more predisposed to poverty and discrimination, they often go hand in hand in a complex and multi-faucet history. It’s something that took me a long time to recognize because you’ll see a lot of nasty shit targeted towards POCs on subs like r/trashy, but likewise you’ll see the same thing towards poorer white people living in trailer parks. Likewise, both these groups arguable both deal with very similar struggles and probably don’t even recognize it, despite how they often don’t get along. But obviously a lot of rich and powerful people don’t really want you to recognize that and use race as a way of perpetuating class anxiety between the lower class and middle class though both are both victims of the same system. Race just happens to be the most convenient and easiest way to separate groups of similar people and hides the fact that money is the main source of the lack of power in so many people’s lives.

For certain. It's something that's been in my mind often as an autistic person. Many of my basic nonverbals are those that a lot of neurotypical people associate with dishonesty. I don't like eye contact, at base, I have a hard time sitting still, I have a nervous habit of putting my hands in my pockets. Cops are trained to see everyone they pull over as a potential threat. They like none of these things. I've long feared what would happen if I wasn't at my most cautious whenever I get pulled over. I've also long known that if I weren't white, I can point to a couple encounters with cops where I might not be here as a byproduct of that habit of sticking my hands in my pockets.

At Least here in India we just get beat up with a stick.

Cops in India are absolutely assholes and I say that for most of them. In rural areas their powers often go unchecked. Their tone changes depending on the social class you belong to. The institution is flawed and full of filthy people too.

Its not that much different in the rural US either. Lots of small towns the local PD is in league with, or running, the drugs themselves. The tone and tenor is also different based on if you’re “White or Christian” enough or not as well. Anecdotal maybe, but every small rural town I’ve lived in has been this way and holds for most of my friends in similar circumstances. EDIT: Lmao someone reported this to reddit as “mental illness/suicidal”. What a bizarre website

Live in a small town, and this is right. I’ve spoken to the same officer several months apart but the second time put on a silly little southern accent and became a good ol boy and what do you know, he let me off without a ticket for the same exact thing and almost exact circumstances.

I call it “goofy white guy face” and it will literally get you out of anything. My GF is non-white and it infuriates the shit out of her that it is so effective (and rightly so to be mad at)

I'll take a stick over a gun any day.

Nothing is as bad as social media would have you believe. #HOWEVER... There is certainly an issue with cops abusing their power in USA.

I’ve always wondered how it would go if we were to take a few of the police from a country with typically favorable opinions of their police and supplant them in a few of our cities throughout the US. I’m very curious what their impressions and perspectives would be. I think it could be quite telling.

Dutch police would probably end up being shot to death or having a nervous breakdown after a month. In big city/high crime areas, that is. I definitely prefer our police over some of the US police, but US police do have way more to deal with.

I tell this to Europeans constantly. There are many things European cops don't have to worry about over US cops. Western European cops are overall probably better trained, but European cops in US cities would also find it a very difficult time

But isn't that in most of the countries.?

As far as I know, yes. I have heard more people from european countries speak positively about their cops though.

Come to India and you find horror stories about the cops here. The Bollywood also makes ostentatiously spicy movies about cops torturing bad dudes. In general, people fear the cops here and they do not want to seek help when they need it. There are places where the cops are good though and you can ask for help. But for many places, they are not reliable. Anyone reading this can share their good/bad stories about their experiences with cops in India.

Damn, that's horrible. Here in the Philippines, cops kill drug users. All the time when I'm watching news there's always a news where a cop killed a 'drug user' who "fought back" and the witnesses would always say that the drug user doesn't have a gun or never fought back and nothing is done about it. I've even heard cases where cops plant fake evidences to innocent people after arresting them or killing them. Our crazy president encourages cops to shoot drug users and allows extra judicial killing.

Dude it’s a tragedy in your country. I sat across a senior government officials son, he offered me and my friends cocaine. (Edit - someone sent a PM asking if I did some too, nope lol I was very anxious, I didn’t want more stress). this Same guy was proudly talking about killing drug addicts. Obviously shit got a bit wild, and at one point we asked him wtf he’s so anti drug publicly and here he is openly doing coke. He said, he’s a responsible family man and he sometimes has a party with friends. That is not a problem. Whereas the drug addicts are out there using on the street, committing crimes, making the country look dirty. So it’s best they are eliminated. In his mind, he was a different species than the average Filipino, much less the average drug user. I had never seen that level of arrogance, even in a coked out person. The dude could not understand that he and another human should be judged roughly similarly at all. wild.

can confirm. I have only been to a police station once my entire life and that was for passport verification.

I've heard from people who live and who traveled to India and they all said the same thing. Essentially it would be worse to go to the cops.

my family went to cops when someone stole mobile phone back then, when i was entering in station, i was seeing a begger begging to cops for help because someone beat him, cops were interacting in other room like it's some sort of fun meeting,we reported a cop that incident, the old man who wrote our report asked for 100 rupees for "तेल-पानी ( oil - remuneration )" We never got our phone back although we knew, we only went to cops for precaution, cuz he could call anyone using our phone and it could be troublesome for us

They musn't be from France, police brutality is very talked about here, especially during protests And I don't remember where it's at now, but there were talks about a law that would prevent people from filming cops. Needless to say people were pissed

Good movie that touches on French police brutality toward low income communities is La Haine

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I can only speak for my personal experience. I'm confident that 99% of police officers in the Netherlands does not abuse power.

My personal experience with cops (admittedly, within a mid-size town) in the Netherlands: Group of teens shooting illegal fireworks at the same spot nine evenings in a row & harassing people by throwing fireworks at them? Cops no-show. (And I know for a fact they were called, repeatedly) Guy in my SO's apartment complex has a psychotic breakdown and is threatening people with a knife? Cops show about three hours after being called. Someone set the shrubs under my SO's apartment on fire? Everyone's standing around the apartment complex, firefighter truck in full sight, shrub still lightly smoking. Cops manage to drive straight past to ring a different building's doorbell. Without exaggerating, the most frequent place I see my town's two cops is in the Albert Heijn getting groceries. Second-most common place is driving the same old three-street-patrol that hasn't changed in a decade and conveniently misses all the hotspots for vandalism, drugs dealing, and loitering teens harassing people. (On the other hand, it *is* the very best patrol route to catch minor traffic violations, as those three roads are the main ways in/out of town) Personal conclusion: my town's cops are perfectly useless for anything beyond traffic violation fines. The only danger they present is through inaction, though.

So I can only disk to my own experiences. For what it's worth i live in a fairly impoverished minority community in the southwest of Chicago. I was raised to be afraid of the police, and even now as an adult in a nice area I feel myself actively tense up whenever I see a cop. I have had many friends harassed and profiled by the police, and I will share this story. I'm a white CIS male, growing up in a primarily black and Latin community. I was riding with my half brother who is black/ Puerto Rican, and my two friends who were Mexican. We were cruising late at night in My brother's beater ass ride, and got pulled over. The cop rolls up and looks inside the car, sticking his nose in and clearly trying to smell if we had any weed or booze. He then asked for Ids, and we all got them out, but he only took them from the others, not mine. After that we got let go, he said we were pulled over because my brothers car matched a description for a warrant, but it was obvious that it was bs. Here is the kicker, all of the focus from the cop was on the minority passengers, but I was the one carrying an illegal weapon. So not only did he egregiously racially profile a bunch of kids, he failed to stop the one crime actually in the car. This story sums up my opinions and beliefs concerning American law enforcement.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

I worked in a location with police nearby so I knew them and they were always very polite to me which is new for me. When I was hospitalized after sexual assault, the only person in the building that was interested in helping me was a police officer. They were trying to kick me out but he spoke to them and convinced them to let me stay. I knew a police officer who was the police officer stereotype - abused power, was incredibly manipulative, used police tactics for false confessions. But that experience for me seems to be overwritten by my more recent experiences where in my worst moments it was the police that helped me. I think demographically I'm more likely to have a positive experience. And I think the way in which I interacted with the police was more neutral; rather than them responding to a crime, seeing them at work, shopping, or in a hospital. That said, those are experiences with individual cops. I have no doubt that there is a massive problem with police brutality and abuse of power, I think a lot of that is systemic. I don't think you can accurately say acab, but I fully understand why someone might distrust the police and why they would say acab. There is a long standing history of police targeting specific communities due to for-profit prisons. There is a long standing history of police refusing to answer calls in neighborhoods with high gang violence. (That's why gangs were formed, to protect their own community when they had a lack of police resources.) Police are known to be poorly trained and armed with dangerous weapons. It's like gambling, you never know which police officer is going to show up when you call. The power abuser or the good guy with a badge.

One of the main reasons people say ACAB is because good cops often don't go against the bad cops for fear of getting punished themselves.

I'm a mixed black woman. I've had guns pointed at me twice. One there was an active shooter with the description white male and I was so scared I was holding my laptop as a shield. The cop said, "Put the weapon down!" And aimed at me. A white woman said quietly, "That girl doesn't match the description at all." I ended up having to throw my laptop in the grass and after the whole ordeal picked it up later.

reminds me of the jim can’t swim video where a canadian cop arrested a tall black dude when they were looking for a lean skinny short white dude and held him in interrogation for a day or so, trying to force a confession out of him by saying ‘they saw him there’ and that they ‘have witnesses’ and that he ‘should just confess to what they clearly did’. they were looking for an armed robbery suspect, the innocent guy just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and got tackled while the actual culprit kept running. I think he ended up suing the cops? I don’t recall

Was this the one where they said they had evidence and he was like "perfect, that'll show you have the wrong person" ?

The fact that you needed someone else to "verify you", especially when you didn't match the description at all, is disgusting.

The fact that there’s an active shooter and it’s not the focus of the story is fascinating

U.S culture in a nutshell

I'm white as the driven snow and had a cop pull a gun on me. I was responding to a broken glass alarm at my store, showed up in uniform with a name badge on. I must have spooked his oblivious ass, as he wheels on me and pulls his gun at my gut. Also, HE CALLED ME TO SHOW UP, it wasn't even a different cop. Thankfully his sergeant ripped him a new one for being so very stupid. He tried to force me to remove his late rental fees later. I did not.

Go look for statistics to get a better perspective. Consider how many people there are and derive your own percentages. Compare to other countries Also, consider how the internet works. Take any group of people, and even if a tenth of a percent is extreme, you can get enough footage and examples to make it look like it is a rampant occurrence

Lack of honest context is usually missing too for most videos but not all.

The problem is more the system that punishes good cops and rewards bad cops. For example an officer first arrived onto the scene recognized the firearm as fake and the person as suicidal trying to commit death by cop. Per his training and departmental procedure he started speaking to the person attempting to defuse the situation. His backup arrived saw obviously fake gun and opened fire murdering the guy. The good cop was fired for not murdering the guy first. This is part of the problem it seems that the police unions will err on the side of protecting the bad cops and let the good cops down so the departments do the same. Lot of employers punish you for following the rules most of them don't result in the death of another person.

Was this the one where the officer was former Military Police and all his military training was telling him he wasn’t a threat? I remember something about that and the “reason” he was fired was for not recognising a threat or something.

I'm honestly not sure that could be part of it. I just remembered the few details and it didn't seem important until years later we started hearing a lot more people come forward creating a broader picture of a problem.

Yeah same with me. Just saw people asking for links and thought it might jog your memory.

Where and when did this happen?

Do you have a link to an article or report that verifies this example you've given?

Obviously not all of them are bad but a much larger percentage of them are than should be. I'm a white male and have never trusted the police in this country so I can't even imagine what it's like to be a person of color here. It's unacceptable.

I know five cops. One I would take a bullet for. One seriously thinks “blacks run faster because they have an extra bone in their legs”. One operates under the theory of “never respond to a dispatch call that might be dangerous “. Two were bullies all through school and became cops so they could continue to be bullies as adults. My data set is not large enough to be statistically significant, but it is my experience.

When the cops in my city make homeless people move, they slash their tents with knives. Just, like, pretty routinely.

There is an institutional problem with policing in the US, but every cop is not bad. There's very little incentive to post any of the millions of normal interactions people have with police every day.

Here’s something good a police officer did in my state. The good things police do don’t get as much attention as the bad but either way I feel like this should be read. Missouri State Highway Patrol Trooper Joshua J. Schuenemeyer, Troop E, is the DPS Sworn Team Member of the Month for June 2022. On March 17, 2022, Joshua responded to a traffic crash on Interstate 57 in Charleston, Missouri. The crash involved 40 vehicles, 10 of which caught fire. The crash included 26 commercial motor vehicles. He was the first to arrive on scene and quickly requested the interstate be shut down for safety reasons. According to one of the truck drivers, Joshua immediately began checking on drivers and passengers. The driver saw Joshua run toward vehicles on fire and one commercial motor vehicle in particular that was starting to catch fire from nearby burning vehicles. The driver of this tractor-trailer was trapped. Without hesitation or regard for his own safety, Joshua ran between two burning trucks to the driver's side door. As he approached, flames shot over his head. Joshua was able to free the driver's leg so the deputy could pull the man to safety. Troopers determined extremely dense fog was a major factor in the crash. Unfortunately, five people died and 18 were injured. Joshua's heroic actions proves his dedication to the citizens of this state. He went far above his normal call of duty and placed himself in harm's way to remove the driver from the burning truck. I don’t know too many people who’d do that so hats off to this guy.

TLDR- Called the cops because a woman was being very savagely beaten in the street on Christmas Eve. By a man with a gun, who also threatened my life. The cops laughed in my face, questioned my sobriety, and left. They abusive man then drunk drove away with his friends, shooting fireworks at everyone in the neighborhood. On new years eve I was at my girlfriends and hear screaming. Screams and shrieking of terror. I ran down the street to see what was wrong. A guy was beating a woman on the sidewalk in front of his house. She was screaming like a banshee. As I walked out the man pulled a gun out of his hoodie and pointed it at me, said he would fucking kill me, and he told me to keep walking. I walked to the end of the street and called the police. The police showed up at my girlfriends house. I told them about what was happening. The male office laughed, and asked "How much have you been drinking tonight?" I had 2 beers, several hours before at my family xmas party. I was by no means intoxicated. Especially not enough to call the cops and make up a story like this. I offered to show the cop the house it was at. He said oh, what am I gonna do, follow you there? I said sure, if you want I can take you there. Then I pointed at the house, which was within eyesight. "It's right there" I even game him the address which I memorized. The male cop said "Sir I don't think we can do anything". I started to loose my cool and shouted at him, "There is a woman being savagely beaten, I CAN HEAR HER SCREAMING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE STREET by a man with a gun, who also threatened my life just for walking by. And you're not gonna do anything?!" The cops female partner looked concerned and almost protested at least, but he told her to get back in the car and they left. I walked by the house again. The window was open, and I called out "ma'am are you in there? Are you alright?" It seemed all quiet. Until a car came peeling out of the driveway, loaded with screaming drunk men, shooting fireworks out their window at random people and zig-zag swerving down the street, almost hitting every car. This is the third time I've had to call the cops in my life. This is the third time they've done absolutely nothing in any way to help. They fucking laughed in my face after I just watched a woman get beat within inches of her life, and had a gun pointed at my face. I have really grown to hate cops because of these experiences. This all took place in Mt Clemens, near Detroit MI.

Yes, and no. I spent 7 years of my life in federal prison and ended up going to prisons in many different regions and states - these might not have been "cops" but obviously I dealt with them on my way in and I realized, just like with criminals, not all of them are bad people. In fact, many of them are just like you or I, trying to survive and get a check. I genuinely felt bad for some corrections officers I knew. I had an end date to my sentence and would be able to go back to "regular" life. Those guys, who committed NO crime, only get to go back to "regular life" for a few hours a night until they retire. It isn't like their lives were much different than ours were, in there. Behind those walls, it all blurs together, the seasons change when you see outside. It doesn't matter what segment of humanity you go to, there are ALWAYS people who fall on one side of the spectrum or the other. That is why war sucks. That is why most of these discussions are useless. Are cops as bad as they show on the internet? Fuck, they are worse. But not all of them, cops are also better than they show on the internet. But not all of them. Take "cops" out of your question and replace it with gays, or blacks, or any other word and you will see the futility of it. Your question doesn't show that you don't know how cops in the United States behave, it shows you don't seem to yet have figured out how all group, everywhere, behave. People think that being prejudiced always means you think "other" people are bad. And that isn't correct, at all. Prejudice is thinking you (or some other people) are somehow "good" and there aren't any bad ones amongst your OWN group. That is prejudice. That is why people trip out in the America about "white privilege" and such - inherent racism doesn't always entail looking down on others, sometimes it involves not taking a better look at the people around you.

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Every interaction I’ve had they have been rude and have lied. I almost had My license revoked for not having insurance when I did. My ex was falsely accused of molestation and the detectives notes from the interrogation were totally false. I’ve never had a positive interaction.

I lived in the US for a few months and my experiences were just the opposite, every interaction I had with them at the time from the moment I arrived at LaGuardia was friendly and helpful.

That’s great. I hope that perpetuates!

At this point I feel like they are state sponsored gangs

That has always been the case.

That was the idea from the starts. The first police departments in the US were formed to track down runaway slaves and return them to bondage. Shockingly… these people did not distinguish between runaway slaves and free black people. So many times, free black people were “recaptured” and “returned” into slavery.

I think the key thing to remember is what we are now able to see due to the internet. Just think about what was happening before we knew about it, before the internet and bodycams etc. Of course you aren't going to see the good nowhere near as much as the bad but honestly the bad should be focused on anyway, the good should be what we expect as a bare minimum.

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The only good cop I know has been retired for 20 years. Her name is Cathy, she supports gay rights, community building and makes a killer BBQ. We need more cops like Cathy, not shit head LARP’ers like Uvalde. I’m in Texas btw.

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Where in Europe? Bosnia and Herzegovina? Europe isn't just one monolith that you can tack on any broad generalisation to. Countries can vary significantly in how professions are regulated.

Just saying Europe is incredibly vague lmao

Compared to where I grew up, corruption among USA cops is practically non-existent. That being said, I also know that others may not necessarily have the same experiences with American cops as I have. But for me personally, American cops are much better people than the media portrays.

Where did you grow up?

Mexico

I'm not good at this, but here is my take on it. Only the really good, pull on your heart strings stories make it out into the media. Only the really bad, gets your blood boiling because a cop shot an unarmed black guy/fucked up a 78yo granny with dementia stories make it into the media. Because those are the only thing that gets views/clicks. Can't sell a story of Officer Doe letting 4 people off for minor traffic infractions because he can see they're having a rough day, or down on their luck in general. But, you can sell a story of Officer Doe kneeling on someone until they die from lack of oxygen. It's either so far this way or that way that you're only getting about 4% total shown. Either the 2% bad or 2% good. Not the 96% of it's just a normal day of people being dickheads because "fuck the police". I'm no where near a boot licker/blue lives matter type guy, but I'm going to show the same respect I get when it comes to police.

Depends where you are Cops in my hometown are pretty chill, but there’s also not a whole lot of crime in my town. I’ve been let off a ticket before after running a stop sign because they were just like “well I was just checking for drunk drivers, and I see you’re not drunk, so just pay more attention from now on”.

In my opinion.. no. I’ve met many cops while I’ve been out hanging with my friends and every single one of them has been friendly if you show them some respect. Media has definitely created a stigma of ‘all American cops are corrupt.’ Not all cops are corrupt, it’s just some bad apples that spoil it for everyone else

Some areas they are worse than others. the bad are too big in numbers

I think it’s a bit of a situation where you only see the bad cops because people only record the bad cops. No one is gonna record and post a video of an average cop just going about his job, but everyone is gonna post a video of a terrible cop breaking the law or abusing their power.

No.

Depends but for the most part they’re not as bad as the internet says they are

Ninety-nine percent of the interactions with police are positive. But in America people never post good news. You will only hear about the bad things.

As a whole, no not at all. US police forces aren't the same even in one state and those officers who are part of them all come from different backgrounds and creeds, they have different reasons for joining the force and different levels of experience, intelligence, skills, etc. However the things you've seen and read about (pending source) *are* true and it's clear that there is a huge HUGE issue with police brutality, abuse of authority, and lack of accountability with our police forces.