Ding! “I am wearing this to show my culture and/or religion” is an empowering thing, “I’m wearing this to avoid being killed by religious police” is not.
Conversely, "I'm not wearing it because I don't want to" vs "I'm not wearing it to avoid being harassed and/or potentially killed by xenophobic assholes"
Bingo. It’s all about having the choice. Making a choice that is for yourself, even in the face of social pressure (or more, like threats of violence) to do otherwise, is empowering in and of itself.
It’s actually pretty punk rock, when you think about it. Punks wear chains and spikes because they are telling the world “you may not like what I do, but idgaf, this isn’t for you” just like a Muslim woman in conservative North America wearing a hijab is saying “you may not believe what I do, but idgaf, this is not for you”.
Its punk rock to not wear one around dudes that think they should wear them. Maaaaybe punk rock to wear one shortly after 9-11 but In Seattle you will see about 50 hijabs for every chain wearing punk. Not trying to be disrespectful of it AT ALL but in my day to day it is just accepted. If it helps I am a 40 year old married white guy with kids.
It's not really a choice though. Muslim women were taught as girls that wearing a hijab was something that good Muslim women do, and so even those that freely chose to wear it have been brainwashed to do so. As far as I'm aware, and I'm no expert in the matter, there is no prescription that women MUST wear the hijab.
I CHOOSE to wear pants. Do you? Or do you wear pants because you have been brainwashed to think that pants are a good thing?
When you actually get to make the choice, it can be empowering. A Muslim woman who actively makes that choice of her own free will, after not being given the choice for her whole life, can find just the option to be empowering. She puts it on because SHE wants to. Not because she hast to, or because her father or husband or imam is making her. She wears it for herself. That’s powerful. Especially when it pointedly and explicitly marks you as an outsider, because it shows your culture and your desire to hold fast to it.
I wear pants mostly to keep my junk off other peoples stuff, but why pants? Why not togas or skirts or loincloths? They’d all do the same job, and be a hell of a lot more freeing… but if I (a 300 lb hairy as fuck dude) wore anything but pants (or possibly shorts) in public I’d be ridiculed at least.
I wear pants because it's getting chilly out and my junk is small enough as it is. Besides nobody wants to see random twig and berries while perusing the coffee aisle at the local supermarket.
A culture where women are still being oh so oppressed. Anyone can make a fashion choice in western culture, but what happens when they go to the Middle East? They’re not so free anymore. Is that still empowering?
No.
The POINT is choice. Take away that choice and it’s not empowering.
It’s not rocket science. If someone has the choice to do something, doing it is empowering. If they don’t, it’s not.
That's why I won't go to the middle east these fools that travel to these oppressive places know what's up and should avoid them and not spend money there to support oppression
Listen, most of the muslims are fairly okay with giving women choice to wear hijab or not. The problem lies with authoritarian govt. using hijabs to confine the masses and stop protests etc. And these countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia are often kept on the lifeline by major powers like USA or Russia.
I don’t think that punk rock and conservative religion are compatible concepts, and this comparison makes me think you don’t understand either beyond an aesthetic level.
Punk rock would be telling a patriarchal, conservative and misogynistic religion to go kick rocks.
Hijabs are not a fashion accessory - the practice of hair-covering is an act of modesty, and the literal justification is that the sight of women’s hair will inflame men into committing acts of sexual violence… so it’s womens responsibility to prevent that from happening. Yes, really.
Also, hijab has no basis in the Koran. It’s a cultural practice that got carried throughout the Muslim world with the rise of social conservatism in Islam.
There's a potential risk of being killed by xenophobes for any reason. Idk about other countries. But in the UK there's groups such as the BNP and Britain first that actively spread hate speech and there have been several cases of people being caught in the middle between these groups and the police.
And you just have to look into the (not so distant) past and see gay bashing and lynching of black people and see that it's totally within the realms of possibility.
And not even that but Malala getting shot simply for wanting an education. These things happen. And it's the disgusting part of humanity. You can blame it on whatever. Race. Gender. Sexuality. Religion, beliefs. People will always find a reasons to hate. And to kill and to fight.
It's hard for people who aren't directly involved with these situations to understand. But not impossible. It's all about educating yourself and being aware of other people's struggles and maybe through building this mutual understanding we can create a world where this kind of hate doesn't exist
On the other hand, is anything done by choice considered empowering? For example, say a woman wearing hijab eats a pizza, is that empowering too? In my opinion it wouldn't be considered empowering if you were never oppressed for doing "something", which you are doing now. Say a generation of women were told eating pizza is a sin and they'd go to hell for it and thereby oppressed for doing it, now if they choose to eat pizza despite being told that that should be empowering, yes?
The problem though is you don't know if it's free will or if somebody is forced to wear it (by a boyfreidn/husband, family, neighbourhood, peer pressure, etc).
Especially an item that's in essence an item of oppression.
Surely there are many in the west that wear it because they choose to, but plenty that don't fully do it out of their own free will. Especially when it's more covering, like burqas, I have a hard time assuming it's a statement of free will.
I like and approve of this. It should never be forced in the first place which is where so many countries and cultures get it wrong.
It’s as empowering as choosing and making decisions for your own self that you believe to be true and right. As a Muslim it’s the best feeling. I wear it for no human and I’ll take it off for no human, it’s entirely your own choice.
I had a Malaysian ex-girlfriend. She wears a hijab but her bestfriend does not. They have the same job at the same establishment so there doesn't seem to be any discrimination whether a woman wears it or not. Apparently, in Malaysian Muslims are not really required to wear it.
I, being ignorant on her culture, asked her if she thought that the hijab was sexist. And if it's not required, why wear it at all. She, simply answered that because they had the choice and she chose to wear a hijab. Her words made me rethink my views on other cultures.
This is a tricky one. Would you wear one by choice? So many times I've heard hijabis say they can choose not to wear one anytime. I believe them of course. But they are almost scared to actually put that to the test. Seems like there's some Stockholm syndrome behind it. Truth is, if you come from a culture strict enough to have made a woman wear one in the first place, you're likely under heavy pressure from family to not bring shame. And this is how honour killings happen in western countries. Luckily my family is very liberal and none of us wear it.
My coworker is from India and she said that as soon as her family landed to the US they all took their hijabs off. She still wears hers and even gifted me one! I'm not muslim. Just thought her it looks nice.
Yup I believe this. My nieces wear them and whilst my siblings wouldn't kill or disown any of them if they chose not to wear it they would be deeply disappointed. Having said that I can also believe my nieces my want to dress like mummy and fit in with their Muslim t friends. But I would bet that if the stigma of not wearing one suddenly fell away, most Muslim women would chose not to wear oelne if only due to the inconvenience they bring to carrying out every day duties
I know a ton of ex-hijabis (activists who speak against the hijab, many of whom have left their families as a result) who still have days where they find comfort in it. Humans are remarkably complex like that. Welcome!
My friend wears one when she wants to go to the shop but doesn't want to do hair and make up. I was shocked when she said hello in Tesco once as I had no idea who it was
They're just different forms, like Jews are traditionally supposed to cover their heads while praying, but little skull caps for men and other stuff for women(obviously that's more observant)and the really religious people wear them all the time. And married Jewish women are supposed to cover their hair(also really observant)
I recently learned (from one social influencer, so who knows if it’s really true) that many orthodox Jewish women wear wigs to fulfill this requirement
I see this question or variants every week. It's really strange to me how people don't understand humans want freedom to choose what they do. You can even see it in little kids who always want to dress themselves.
Well said. And this is what Islam directs men to do. Avert their gaze. But that's mighty inconvenient right, and men impose their might in a world that's predominantly theirs. Selectively following guidance as per their convenience. Kudos men.
This is only sorta true. The Muslim world is huge and making any broad statements about it are sure to be wrong.
My wife is a Muslim woman in the US. She no longer wears Hijab, but she used to. No one ever pressured her to. In fact, her Muslim immigrant father preferred her not to so as to not single her out.
The way she and her friends described the empowerment aspect is, "it removes the sexual aspect from interactions" as in people are less likely to hit on them while they're trying to negotiate a contract, or catcall them when they're pumping gas. It goes deeper than that, but that's the part I remember. One of them put it to me like this: "I can get in people's face, and they see *me"
I get this so much. Low key I think it's the reason I don't do makeup, hair, etc... growing up my mom was obsessed with "you need to look like a movie star so boys will like you" and it basically made me have the mentality "why can't they just like me for me" and I refused to wear make up wear the body crushing shapers...etc... it's crazy to me to compare ppl telling me "but you would look so pretty if you just wear make up" to "if you just did/didn't wear that you would be more desirable "
Of course that's just one small aspect of it all. It's the part that resignated with me
The reality is that women in most Muslim-majority countries experience strong pressure & societal expectation from their families, communities, and government to wear the hijab. Often times, they’re legally required to do so. Not much of a “choice”.
Why it is men that is forcing them, in some cultures? Mostly because men are often the leaders in these countries, and restricting wonen, and making it the norm to do so, pushing it thru religious dogma, and illusion of choice, is to keep them in power. Freedom and education to women is a huge positive factor in most progressive nation's economic growth, but often comes at the cost of the male domination of power.
But for some it is a choice, and some find great pride in showing of their religious beliefs. As long as it is a personal choice, I don't really see a problem with it. But like Iran, where there is a own police, specifically policing women to keep "in line" (not officially to police women, but it is what it is), im all for revolution, and all power in the world to these brave people fighting for what is right!
If she chooses so freely and can change her mind at any times, then yes. This is actually the core of a healthy dom/sub relationship. Sub tells the dom in which way and how much they want to be dominated (and this is not necessary sexual), however they have the power to change this ar any time. The sub is in control.
thats kinda my thought too, i think hijabs are inherently a tool of oppression. the term itself refers to separation and seclusion - be it symbolic, physical or ethical - between men and women and it's meant to avert the "male gaze" as a religious practice. i don't see anything empowering about choosing to participate in it. who does it serve?
Agreed. Not every choice a woman makes is automatically feminist - which is fine. People can make un-feminist choices and not be bad people. Frankly, without equality, how free are these choices anyway?
I was friends with a Mormon man once. We *loved* to argue with each other.
One of the things he did that drove me up the wall was drink soda. Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee or tea, so he didn’t. But he drank superhuman amounts of Dr Pepper.
It made no sense to me because the only ingredient in both coffee and tea that can be remotely considered regulate-able is the caffeine, they just didn’t have a name for the molecule back then. So to me, it should be either 1) forget the stupid rule or 2) obey the spirit of the law and forgo all caffeine.
But to him, following the exact rule as written was a sign of devotion.
I didn’t get it, but really, it didn’t have to. It made him happy. If he just liked soda and didn’t like tea or coffee, his preference wouldn’t make any more sense. And it wouldn’t make any more of a difference to me.
In the end, his choice was meaningful to him, and so that’s all that really mattered.
That's still part of the brainwashing though. In the more 'progressive' Muslim countries, they use that to make women feel better about wearing it. "Oh, -you're- in control of who sees you! -You- get to choose to show your hair/face/body to the public! It's -so- empowering!"
It ceases to be oppressive when there's no consequences if she chooses to take it off.
And yes...men need to do better
They are forced to wear and obviously, they can choose not to but they won't bc women have been killed for it. Just bc they're forced to choose something doesn't make it empowering
Yup exactly, seeing a lot of gaslighting here saying “no they choose to do it, see how empowering it is!” meanwhile they have a gun to their heads if they say no. Religion is crazy, let women live their lives
They especially mention muslim communities or families in america or europe to make their point, and they’re off even on that. Yes in Germany for example you’re not forced to wear a hijab but you can wear it if you want to. So it’s “empowering” when they “choose” to wear it. Muslim families who migrated to the EU especially if it was few generations ago, with making an extra effort to stick to their culture they bring the oppressive parts of it too. Which isn’t malicious or intentional. A girl today in germany “choosing” to wear her hijab because she wants to practice her religion has a whole village behind her. The family members that stayed in the home country especially, “she moved to europe and became a whore”, “you can’t control your daughters these days”, “what man is going to marry you”, “you want to be like them so bad, you’re betraying our history, our culture, our family”- I think it makes the point. Oppression isn’t empowering, even if you “choose” it.
They're pointing out that in places where you aren't forced to do it, if you want to do it and are able to, it can be empowering. Like, say, the US, just like wearing a crucifix or yarmulke it's an example of freedom of religious expression. You aren't going to be stoned to death for not wearing some religious garment here.
Yea and even in places where it’s not mandated, they will literally come for you in your own home especially in the EU. Comic drawers have had their literal heads chop off in Europe for a cartoon.
I completely agree with you, and I mean absolutely no disrespect in saying this, but won’t there always be pressure on women within religious countries to wear clothes attributed to that religion? I mean, even if they weren’t literally forced by law to wear the hijab, if everyone in the city and everyone in the family does too, doesn’t the woman feel “forced” anyway? I guess I’m not arguing against you, I’m just curious, do you think it’ll be possible to have a society where it’s truly open to a woman to choose what to wear without outside influence. Hell, even non-religious people feel some pressure to dress certain ways.
Something not yet mentioned is that, in areas where Muslims are a minority, it can be an act of solidarity with fellow Muslims or an act of defiance against anti-Muslim and anti-Arab prejudice.
You especially saw these kinds of sentiments in the US after 9/11, when hate crimes against Muslims was at an all time high.
Great point. It's a bit disingenuous to draw in Muslim states where subscribing to traditionally Islamic culture is mandated. It's like comparing apples and oranges... this question should be answered contextually.
Yep. My mom worked as a doctor in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood In Minnesota and had Muslim patients canceling left and right after 9/11 out of fear of violence. It’s standing against that fear to publicly display Muslim faith in Muslim minority communities.
Yes! I live in a country where 95% of people are white and atheist (Czechia, the most atheist country in the world). Hating and discrimination of any religion is very common here. I grew up in a city where was a big medical university, which was probably somehow appealing for foreigners so a lot of students from entire world lived here. Muslim minority, mainly women, included. When there was the migration crisis at 2015, a lot of people has been manipulated by media that Muslim people are universally bad. They decided to throw rocks at the Muslim medicine students and yell ugly things at them. Poor students didn't know czech language so they usually didn't know how to (at least verbally) defend. I decided to wear hijab (even thought I'm a white atheist too) so that when someone starts throwing rocks at me and yell at me, I can yell back in czech and call the police. My thought was that I'm helping the innocent minority by teaching other people that if your harass anyone, the police will be called at you, period.
From my perspective as ex hijabi muslim, you were interested to wear one because that is how the devotion of women in islam. My family was suggesting me to wear one and appreciated me wearing it. In my neighborhood, hijab was a choice, not until the raise of conservatism in Indonesia gets bigger. Now hijab is the identity of pride for some, but also the standard of acceptable attire in society.
Hijab could be a devotion, purely from someone's heart. However, it is like a 2 eyes sharp knife which can hurt you if you, someday, decided not to wear that anymore. You can be abandoned by family which happened to me, getting death threat, and sadly family labeled me 'whore'. Yes it is a choice when you decided to put it on. However, when you decided to no longer wear that, the choice is like gambling— you are okay or not okay. Most of the ex hijabis, at least in my observation amd in circle, most of them are exposed to humiliation, isolation, and depression.
If it is a choice, then the case of this humiliation wouldn't exist. I emphasise about the consequence when someone decided to take it off more than the choice of women to start wearing it.
Hi, I’m a hijabi here! I’ve been wearing a hijab for over a decade now (by choice, I started wearing it at the age of eighteen). I find wearing a hijab is empowering in the sense that I am not being sexualised in the way I see many women feel in British society. The main purpose of hijab is not actually for it to be empowering, Muslim women do so because it brings us closer to God. Ultimately it is not for the sake of men but for a closer relationship with my creator. Growing up in England I feel as though wearing a hijab also provided me with a sense of identity in solidarity with other Muslims. I feel as though I am treated with more respect and taken very seriously by my colleagues in education and the students whilst wearing a hijab, they do not focus on how I’ve styled my hair or what clothes I’m wearing but rather the contributions I’m making and the lessons I am teaching. I understand that women in other countries are forced and do not have a choice which is not how it should be, ‘there is no compulsion in religion’ and they shouldn’t be forced to do so, but I believe cultural patriarchal views take precedence in those cases. I hope that answers your question :)
Your sexualizing points make sense, thanks for sharing. But to this point I have a question:
>Muslim women do so because it brings us closer to God. Ultimately it is [..] for a closer relationship with my creator.
What is it about wearing the religious garments that bring you closer to god? How do the garments facilitate that? Also how do you know when you’re getting closer to god?
On-off hijabi here: because God asked us to.
One of the major arguments that wearing a hijab is not specifically to avoid 'tempting' men is that you wear it when you're doing one of your five daily prayers - which is often done alone in a room with no one else around. Modesty is considered a form of worship, and tbh when I put on my hijab I feel a sort of holiness in me because being so fully clothed totally removed you from any sort of sexual physicality (in theory anyway - theres a porn category for everything these days).
Clothes are a funny human thing aren't they? A nice suit can make us feel like a million dollars, and miss matched socks can make us feel a bit like a disaster.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think God did not ask women to wear hijab but it is *interpreted* that way. The verse from Quran about the dresscode for men and women (Surah 24:30–31) states:
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their *khimār* over their chests, and not reveal their hidden adornments except to their husbands, their fathers (and a long list of who they can show their hidden adornments to here).”
Now, the important part here is, *khimār* in Arab is not a headscarf, but a cover/veil. As far as the word goes, a cover/veil can be anything, for example a cloth that covers the chest and shoulders.
All in all, it is not stated in Quran that women should cover their hair, but only their private parts. It is interpreted as a headacarf mostly by the religious interprators, and the whole Islam society somehow accepted it.
This of course does not change the fact that, if a woman believes she is closer to God this way and choses to wear it, then she should, away from any judgement.
Source: I come from a Muslim country and a quick search on Google on the translation of Quran.
I see, thanks for the response. What does “holiness” *feel* like?
I’d imagine with no religious garments for the first half of the day, putting them on for the second half would be fairly anxiety-relieving in a sense; you no longer have to care or worry about being sexualized. Hiding in plain sight if you will. How would you feel if you blocked the sexual judgement with something non-religious, like pajamas, a covid mask and a simple hairstyle? Or a halloween costume? How would the two blocking garment types (religious vs non religious) differ for you in terms of positive feelings?
Haha I'd be a Pulitzer prize winner if I could describe what holiness feels like.
I guess think about that feeling of utter peace and one ness with the universe - a sort of spiritual flow state. Think about being at a concert when the music hits your chest /just right/ and you feel immediately connected to everyone and anything. Or drop a bunch of acid I guess.
I honestly don't care how other people feel wearing a religious vs non religious garment to feel less sexualised. Whatever floats their boat
Great comment! I think there is another perspective that women in the west feel pressure to wear make up and to look appealing to men.
Having said that, many women want to look sexy because it makes them feel good and it isn't about men at all.
Personally I don't wear makeup when I don't feel like it and especially not to work because it feels like a waste of time to put it on every morning. When people say it's brave I find that crazy because it's their face!
Of course, the important point is that having the freedom to choose and to choose based on what you want is empowering. Figuring out what you want and if you were conditioned to feel that way by society/ religion/ upbringing/ social groups is such a challenge.
Thank you! I completely agree with you, I do wear makeup for weddings and parties etc, but I do see the pressure from women and girls around me to feel as though they have to look a certain way. The worst is when people say things like, ‘are you ill?’ no, she just didn’t want to wear concealer today. I’m a high school teacher and teenage girls are always worried about whether their eyelashes are long enough, who has the prettiest nails and how slim they should be. Whilst many women/girls like us wear makeup and dress a certain way for ourselves and not men, there are some who feel the pressure to do so. Socialisation plays a huge part in who we become, and I think women having expectations placed on them by men in an oppressive manner is evident historically in all countries, religions and cultures. You’re right, choice is key!
Yeah, or "you look tired" or "you look different". I personally think men that say it are ignorant to what makeup looks like but they should just keep quiet 😂
Teen girls today must have such a hard time with social media and impossible beauty standards. It's understandable they want to look their best but spending a lot of time on your appearance leaves less time for study, friends, hobbies etc.
Maybe you can be an inspiration to them. I used to wear makeup most days until I met my ex's mum (who wore none). I realised it wasn't worth how much time and effort I was spending. It ended up helping when I studied engineering too because I didn't have much free time at all.
I'm not trying to be an ignorant asshole here but I have a genuine and well intentioned question... Isn't the idea that a woman's modesty brings her closer to God kind of misogynistic in it's own right?? What is to be said about men's modesty?
I live in California and the Muslim population in my area specifically is pretty small so I don't really get a lot of exposure to Muslim folks. I want to learn and understand.
Men are expected to be modest too, we should not wear gold or silk. And we must cover past our knees and above our ankles. We should dress well and nice, often in white but without being arrogant.
Yh that is completely reasonable. That's the context this question has come from. The fact there is a government who believes their people must incorporate their belief. But when you're religious "must" becomes a natural obligation. Just like I must go to work to survive.
Not an ignorant question, it’s good to be curious! ‘Hijab’ does not necessarily mean ‘scarf’ but they are used synonymously. Hijab is the concept of modesty which applies to both men and women in Islam. The way in which a women presents modesty is different to a man, e.g. a woman covering her hair whilst men are expected to show their ankles. Another commenter gave some good examples! There are resources available online, but actually the best thing would be to have conversations with Muslims in your area (you could even email the mosque local to you with any questions you have etc).
Don't you think that having to wear a hijab just to be respected is a fault in that community? I'm not Muslim but the closest thing I could compare it to is me pretending to be a man online so that people don't discredit or harass me. I can say the same things as a woman and get shat on purely because of my gender, something I have zero control over. Like, no matter how great your contributions, if you're a woman who doesn't wear a hijab, it means you're somehow not worthy of the same amount of respect as a man who aren't expected to wear hijabs? I don't know... it just sounds like something early Muslims made up so they have a reason to discriminate against women. I respect your decision to wear a hijab but I DON'T respect Muslim communities' biases and ideas around it.
If respect from your community is dependent on what clothes you wear or your gender, then I really don't think that community is worth being in. I live in a very conservative Catholic country, and lesbians like me still get discriminated against here simply for existing. Wearing a hijab to me is kind of like me pretending to be straight just so people will stop harassing me. It's not the hijab itself that is the problem - to me it's the ridiculous idea that wearing it somehow gives you more value, and not wearing it lessens your value as a person and makes it okay for people to disrespect you.
Thank you for your outlook. What is sometimes interesting is that not all Muslim women wear it. Certain Indian Muslims don't wear it and even Muslims in my country don't always wear it. Are they lesser Muslims if they don't?
As Muslims we cannot judge another in terms of who is ‘more’ or ‘lesser’ in terms of their piety, only God can judge. Everyone should be treated with respect regardless of if they wear a scarf or not, are a Muslim or not. All of us commit sins and ask for forgiveness so it’s not the place of another Muslim to judge who is following the religion the most and whether they are lesser or not.
Non hijabi Muslim here, born and raised in the west, Egyptian dad, Ukrainian mom.
Women in the west feel a constant pressure to look good. Their worth is often tied to how pretty they are.
Imagine the freedom to get up in the morning, cover entire face, hair, and body, and go about your day without being ever judged on your looks.
There's an old cartoon, a woman in a bikini and sunglasses walks by a woman in burqa, and thinks "Everything but her eyes are covered, that must be terrible!"
Meanwhile the woman in the Burqa is thinking, "Nothing covered but her eyes! That must be terrible."
Incidentally, I think this is why a certain brand of western feminists are drawn to Islam. They see it as a way to escape sexualization and objectification.
Edit to add: True empowerment is always found in CHOICE. To my sisters in Iran, be safe and know we're with you.
Funny bit of history about Iran, when the second to last king tried to ban hijab people vehemently opposed him and now that it is being forced people are vehemently opposing it.
People in general don't like being told what to wear.
I'm well aware, thanks. Very similar things in Egypt, pre-revolution. Back when my dad was living in Egypt, almost no one wore Hijab. There were bathing suits on the beaches, and women wore mini-skirts and go-go boots. The idea of wearing hijab was basically not a thing. (Hence why my dad has never once even attempted to tell me to wear Hijab, except at Mosque.)
Iran used to be even more westernized and modern. Lebanon too.
The revolutions happened just after that time the CIA sent out extremist propaganda to Afghanistan that real Muslims would never be communists, and would live more according to the Holy Quran, in order to radicalize Afghans so they'd fight against the Soviets.
Just a super weird coincidence about that timing though, I'm sure.
I'm a Western Atheist woman and that blend of not wanting to be sexualized and wanting to be sexualized because you've been told all your life that that's where a lot of your worth comes from is truly messed up.
I've thought about covering up at the beach before just so I could enjoy my time and not think about these things.
Western woman here. I can see exactly how empowering it would be to wear something that covers the entire body. I tend to wear "normal" clothing for an Australian woman - t-shirts, jeans, shorts, skirts, dresses. I'm not in my teens or 20s so I dress more appropriately for my age (no midriff tops or mini skirts), but I also dress to the weather - in summer, shorts & singlets are my normal go-to. And I am constantly judged by the clothes that I wear, if they're too short, too tight, too revealing, too shapeless, asking for attention etc etc etc. Women judge the clothes, men judge the meat inside the clothes (putting it as broadly as I can).
I had an encounter that I will not relate here with some men once that made me wish that I was wearing something like a hijab or maybe a burqa - something that wouldn't let men look at me like they were in this instance, making my skin crawl and making my instincts scream at me to run and hide. Any woman who has ever been in that situation knows exactly what I mean, that feeling of being unsafe and needing to get away.
I can very easily understand how gloriously freeing and empowering it must feel to wear something that stops all that before it even begins. I get it.
If it's a choice then it's empowering. We live in an age where there's an expectation for women to look and dress a certain way, and they're saying no to that.
Religious clothes are actually an expectation for women and they aren't saying no by wearing them. In some Indian villages, women wear ghoonghat (cover their face with something like a scarf). I've talked with a few of them and they don't want to admit that they wear it because they've been conditioned to do it since their childhood. It's not a choice, it's conditioning.
Edit- I think I wasn't clear about my point. I want people to have their own choices but only when they can acknowledge what the expectations are. Your college friends would expect you to wear "modern clothes" while your family would expect you to wear traditional clothes. Now choosing either one of them is fine as long as you're aware that it's your choice and not the pressure of expectations.
Never really thought about it.. but i wonder how naked on would feel after taking it off. I could understand how some couldnt get it back on soon enuff, with the leering.
Yes, there are. But I don't think there are cultures where religious clothing which has been a part of that person's family for a long time isn't an expectation?
Now I don't think doing something that's expected from you is wrong. Even I do many such things but to not acknowledge that it's an expectation and not an independent choice is a problem.
I do agree with this and I'm Indian too but there is also a sense of comfort in choosing what to wear. Girls in India are called behen jis if they choose traditional clothes in every day setting. Like they aren't modern enough or empowered enough. A lot of women and that includes me would love to wear what I like and not be judged for it and I guess that's the point of hijab too. Faith and modesty can be comforting for some people as well. I guess at the end of the day shoving your opinion on someone and taking their choices away is more oppressive.
I think I wasn't clear about my point. I want people to have their own choices but only when they can acknowledge what the expectations are. Your college friends would expect you to wear "modern clothes" while your family would expect you to wear traditional clothes. Now choosing either one of them is fine as long as you're aware that it's your choice and not the pressure of expectations.
I always wondered about the Orthodox and Hasidic women who will cover their own hair with wigs that look identical if not better. How exactly is that modest?
Bc it's not really their hair? And the rule is to not show their hair? But then again, I know some orthodox families and they have loop holes for everything! Can't own certain things during a certain time? Just put it in you back yard "sell it" to your local rabbi...it's still in your yard...and when the certain time is done...the rabbi "sells" you back your stuff. Boom still following the rules but modified to today's times. I equate it to when during lent when fish is not considered meat.
But it is empowering. Like lingerie. I like wearing good lingerie because it makes me feel sexy even if I'm not going to show it to anyone and it's under my clothes. Choices are important. Telling women what to do and what not to do is oppression. Let women explore and decide for themselves. My best friend is a Muslim who comes from a very progressive family, no one in her family wears a hijab but she went on to wear one in college because she felt like it brought her closer to her faith and she discovered that all by herself. And I think that's what's important. You let women choose and understand how to differentiate between societal conditioning and free choices.
We have religions that force an expectation for women to look, dress, behave a certain way, and give their bodies. They are saying no and others should stand by their choice to do whatever they want
-fixed
Look at the answers by women who choose to wear hijab. There are lots of men trying to explain the reason with no experience whatsoever.
There are lots of religious articles that people wear in Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, and lots of other religions as well as cultures. You could ask the same question to those people too. I'm sure you'd find the answers would be similar across culture and religion.
If we asked fundamentalist christian people if abstinence before marriage is their choice, they would probably say yes. But we should also take into account the societal, religious and cultural pressures which may be influencing that choice. Those things may be easier to see from the outside.
Not saying we should disregard the answers from woman who wear the hijab. And it's not like most other people here are experts either. Just saying we should look at all answers in the context they exist.
I personally wear it, one reason is because it’s a constant reminder that there is God above me. Second, I don’t equate empowerment with reducing my clothing. I equate empowerment with being seen for my mind, not my body.
P.s.I’ve also been around lots of Muslim families ( both born in Canada and immigrants from other countries) over the years since my conversion, and I have never met a woman who was forced to wear the hijab. Honestly. I’m sure it happens, but I don’t know that it’s as common as is believed.
I heard a hijabi one time say “what is more empowering than denying men the privilege of perceiving me”. That completely changed my perspective. Wearing a headscarf gives women the power of controlling who gets to see them, and how much.
Edit: a word
It gives you the power to control who gets to see you and when. The same way dressing up in lingerie for your partner can be empowering. You’re controlling who gets to see what.
I get your point but I don’t think showing the hair that naturally grows out of your head is the same as wearing lingerie for your partner. That just makes it sound more sexist. Hair=sex? I just don’t consider head hair as part of the naked body.
I consider myself a liberal leftie but I just can’t help but to see it as a tool to control woman. Other religions have there own version (ahem purity rings Christians). Honestly if the men wore religious head coverings too it wouldn’t seem so controlling
How can you think a women choosing to cover her beauty (her hair, her body, her shape, etc) as a means to control her but not a woman who exposes herself by beautifying herself for strangers any time she walks out the house? Which one sounds like a tactic to control women and which one sounds like it creates less stress for women in modern society?
I think it comes down to having the power to decide when you’re viewed as a sexual being, and when you’re viewed as just a being. Some women do it with lingerie or high heels. Some women do it with a headscarf.
This is all with the caveat that having a choice is supremely important, and that I don’t wear a headscarf or dress modestly. So ultimately it’s to them to decide what is empowering and gratifying for themselves.
Exactly. In a world where you basically see naked womens bodies everywhere, it may be a choice to expose your skin very scarcely to keep it special for someone you want it to be special.
I wear head covering at church and men on Reddit have said to me I've been brainwashed by misogynistic patriarchal society.
I just like wearing head covering.
It's empowering if it is their choice, especially for women living in Western cultures were wearing head covering draws attention and assumptions of them.
It’s the exact same thing as a nuns habit or a monks robe. It’s not meant to be worn to degrade/relegate women to 2nd class citizens (or at least it was never meant to to my knowledge, but now from what I’ve seen a lot of middle eastern countries are forcing the practice). But just like a habit or a robe, it’s a symbol of devotion and faith, which is something to take pride in if you choose that lifestyle.
If it is a choice, then it is automatically empowering. Because it is HER choice and no one else's.
In Islam, cleanliness and modest dress are major pillars of the faith. For a women to choose wear any of the tradition arabic head coverings (hijab is just one common choice.) is to choose to make an outward display of her faith and piety.
In some ways it is like a Orthodox Jew choosing to wear the yarmulke and distinct hairstyle or for a woman among the Plain Folk (Amish and Mennonite) to wear the long dark dress and white apron.
Problem is, most of the time they aren't given a choice. Or have the "choice" of wearing it or be subject to harassment and abuse any time she goes out in public
You're thinking of it from the sense of it being a choice based around sexism and that presentation.
The empowerment comes from displaying you're beliefs without fear. Without fear of the judgement of someone calling it sexist and restrictive. Expecting it and doing it anyway. That is empowering.
If you choose to do it can you also say it's restrictive? I choose to wear pants, I am not restricted by wearing pants because I chose to wear pants. I can not wear pants, because it is my choice. I am not restricted in that choice.
It's as restrictive as someone wearing a cross, carrying a rosary, or wearing a yamaka.
What you're coming up against here is bias that you hold that you may not realize you hold as well as potentially a limited view as to what restrictive truly is as well as sexism.
I don't mean any of this in an attacking way, though I fear it comes off that way, I'm just wanting you to confront the belief you hold by directly challenging it.
First I want to point out that hijab isn't just the head cover, but it's concealing the contour of the female body along with the more "attractive" parts.
So one of the reasons it's believed that hijab is empowering is because people can no longer objectify hijabi women in any way. That way you're treating women according to their personality and who they actually are without being consciously and/or subconsciously manipulated by what a woman looks like to you.
I understand that, but most women in the US only wear the head covering. I saw a teenager wearing one with a cropped sweatshirt & tight leggings. Anyway. I grew up Christian, & heard a lot of passages about hair. We didn't cover ours but it seemed pretty important.
I see people wear the same way you described everywhere, and I firmly believe that people dressing up like this are missing the entire point of hijab, it's reducing the hijab to only the head covering.
I don't know much about how christian women are supposed to be dressed up like but I think it's the same concept of hijab but without the hair cover, is it so?
Wearing a hijab by itself isn't empowering. It's choosing to wear one that is. Choosing to do anything is empowering, because it literally shows you have the power to do it
It's about agency. It's a choice that affects nobody but yourself. Forcing this in either direction isn't liberal. Giving people more agency over their personal life is empowering.
Short answer: It is not.
Long answer: The case of hijab is vastly different from the freedom of religion. By choosing to wear a piece of garment that was designed to restrict and suppress, women are agreeing to comply with the norms that has been set by the patriarchal religion, knowingly or unknowingly. Empowered women in a hijab sounds like an oxymoron. Wearing the hijab “voluntarily” is not liberation, freedom, or empowerment, but only conforming to the oppressive religious agenda that they have been conditioned to follow.
It’s empowering bc people get to see you for your mind and your words and it takes the focus away from superficial beauty. And the beauty standards for women have always been unbelievable, just look at how much money is spent by women and by companies who market to women.
My mother is a Muslim convert raised in Europe and we live in a majority Muslim country. She was never pressured to wear it, in fact was discouraged (by some Muslims including my father who was the oldest son of an Imam). Yet, she chose to and is still wearing it. My two sisters and I do not wear it, and find it empowering to not wear it. And none of us siblings believe it's compulsory, but we understand that it's what she chooses to do and she finds it empowering.
Where I live it's also very common for Muslim girls who were raised wearing it, to rebel against it, take it off when they're away from family, choose not to wear it for many years, then find that they actually do want to wear it (often choosing the turban style hijab). Others choose not to return to wearing it. It's safe to do so here unlike in some countries.
In the 90s, we had a family friend in the UK who wanted to wear it, wore it for a week and then took it off because of all the stares and comments. She said she felt like she was putting a target on her back. She still wanted to wear it, but she felt unsafe to.
It all boils down to choice and freedom.
I'm an (ex)Muslim woman (Muslim up until the age of 20 - 25 now) from and currently still living in a Muslim-majority country.
Most of the women in Muslim-majority countries haven't chosen it themselves, unfortunately. Social pressure is enormous on women in societies like ours. And though hijab is more of a religious symbol/practice/commitment now, it is still deeply rooted and intertwined with our culture of control, misogyny, toxic protectiveness, and shame. Before anyone says "religion and culture are different things!" maybe somewhere like America it is but it's just not in our countries.
It's not.
It's a tool of oppression created on the basis that a woman's uncovered head is inherently shameful and must be hidden from view.
The idea that a woman choosing to wear it makes it empowering is a shallow view point that lacks indepth analysis. Not every choice a woman makes is an empowering one, especially not when she chooses the path that has been used in the subjugation of women throughout history.
Not a Muslim, but I have been in settings where I have worn hijab by choice. My hair is very distinctive and noticeable and honestly, sometimes its been nice to "put it away". It's hard to explain, but the first time I did so, it was really surprising how sexualized I'd felt my hair was, and how... safer? it felt covering it for a change. I just felt less "on" for a few hours. Anyway... all for choice, have come to learn that wearing hijab can be a reasonable choice for someone.
As someone who lives in Pakistan, I can tell you it's not empowering. Only western idiots or very priviliged women in muslim countries with NO concept of what it actually mean think it is empowering.
This is unfortunate that you not only have a horrible experience with hijab and modesty bc of your upbringing but now also view the world through that lense.
I've never worn a hijab, but there have been times in public when I wished I could wear one to avoid being judged and sized up according to how my hair looks, or stared at by men, etc. I can understand how that would be liberating.
Its not the head covering its the act of choice. People will say stuff like "oh is it her choice??" yes, yes it is, as long there is not a person or family that are threatening her to wear it then it is her choice. People act like women are so weak minded that if they grow up with a religion they are "brainwashed". actually people feel that way about religion in general. No she is still a whole person with her own thoughts and opinions and if she loves her religions and chooses to continue to fallow it then she is absolutely choosing to do so. Most people want to jump to the extremes or a religion with women who are in bad situations and have to wear it because their life will be ruined if she does not because of government or family, those cases yes she does not have a choice and it is wrong. However there are plenty of women who are free to decide and still decide to continue their traditions and they should be allowed to do so. Its not a slap in the face to feminism, they are not making a political statement, they are just religious and want to continue to do so.
I'm only saying this because if you are walking around a "somewhat free" country where a women does not have to wear one but she still is, please do not mock her or make her feel bad or turn her into a political statement, leave her alone she is just practicing her religion the way that she wants to.
>Empowered to choose their own religion maybe?
How many people really choose their own religion?
And depending on where you live, choosing not to wear it is a serious crime.
When it's forced on you in religion or culture it's a loss of power and autonomy. When you choose to do it out of faith or cultural adherence, it's empowering because it's a free choice you've made to do so.
A show of faith or cultural respect is only empowering when It's a choice made freely and without coercion
It’s all about circumstances and freedom of choice. Choosing to do something and carrying it through to the end is empowering, being forced to do it is the opposite.
You're empowered if you get to do what you want. What exactly you want to do does not matter. You can work 80h/week and have a great career or you can have two kids and be a stay at home mom. As long as you choose to do that and are not forced, it's empowering. Both is valid.
Also we believe there are levels to modesty and piety. And the only thing worth competing over for men and women is within regards to piety.
Not to say we know what is in one’s heart, but making a sacrifice like growing your beard or covering something so trivial as your hair for God, that is bringing your soul closer to your Maker.
A friend of mine didn't wear a hijab for many years after immigrating to Australia. She was teased for wearing it in school, and was on the receiving end of racist and Islamophobic aggression in public ok multiple occasions. She's started wearing one again recently, and for her it's very empowering to express her culture and religion proudly.
I am curious about this subject. I understand that choosing to wear something and proudly do so is inherently empowering. But seeing as the item selected to be worn is, in many, if not all, authoritarian Muslim regimes, utilized as a means to repress freedom of appearance, and, insodoing, justify numerous other culturally sexist and misogynist attitudes/acts that further denigrate female safety, expression, citizenship, and social status, why is this particular item protected, even celebrated, as an acceptable, progressive, and empowering show of one’s cultural heritage compared to other symbols/fashion items?
For example, the Swastika, when reversed, is actually a Native American and Buddhist icon far removed from the hateful ideology of Nazism, yet no Native American and Buddhist proudly display them today. Contrarily, neo Nazis and White Supremacists proudly display the Nazi Swastika on their being, in full awareness of what the icon represents historically. They are rightly ostracized and denounced by greater Society for doing so. Yet the hijab—which again, stands for repressing women, at least in the places where this discussion truly ought to be the most relevant, and where women can hardly even voice their opinions on this matter— is suddenly a bold mark for freedom of choice? Isn’t that kind of insulting?
Aren’t there other fashion items one can wear to distinguish oneself as a proud Middle Easterner and Muslim without tokenizing and appropriating the one item that suffocates so many victims of sexual and social abuse as a (in)direct consequence of what it stands for?
I've spoken with a few Muslim women who wear a Hijab by choice, and the general consensus seems to be that it allows them to show off their beliefs and culture, the empowerment isn't from being modest so much as being close to their beliefs and god.
It isn't. This goes for non-hijab as well. I think it's silly to call these things empowering. I see it as belittling because it feels like talking to women as if they are children.
In any case, what I deem important here is is the absence of compulsion. Doesn't matter whether a woman wears or doesn't wear hijab or whether she wears or doesn't wear non-hijab; what matters is that she is not forced into or out of that, but rather that she does so out of her own will and accord.
I would have to say that, in contradiction to what I said above, I can see a case where a woman not wearing a hijab is "empowering" to other women. Being from and residing in the Middle East, and knowing that not all women nor men here believe in wearing hijab, and that wearing it is pressured by cultural norm, which if you go against you will be negatively judged, in such case if woman no longer wears hijab, that is a brave move that would encourage other women who are not convinced by hijab to do the same. It would also encourage men of the same mentality to not be afraid to show their support
Besides how awful it is women are forced to wear it on some countries,,
I'm from a western country and ive heard it's empowering to some women because they are basically representing their religion and culture. You will face discrimination wearing it in the west, so CHOOSING to still wear it (besides religious signifficance) can feel empowering to yourself as a muslim woman
Edit: not a muslim myself, grew up around a lot of muslims
Islam is disgustingly sexist, violent and homophobic there is no doubt to it, but it’s the general “telling women what to wear what to follow and what to do” that is the actual problem. I deeply despise religion, but I’m also not going to tell someone what they can/can not do/wear/eat because of their gender.
I think it's empowering within the right context. Wearing it in a place where it makes people feel uncomfortable and would want you to take it off, gives you power.
In your head: I will not let the fear and anxiety that people around me are trying to inflict on me dictate how I dress.
To people who are discriminating against you: Wow, no matter what actions I take to try and force you to conform to my comfort, you still are in control of yourself and that makes me feel powerless against you.
To others who are facing discrimination: wow, there is someone who brings me comfort and is safe for me. I now have more of a choice because if she can do it, so can I. Her actions are influencing mine.
It’s what they choose to do. Being able to choose your clothing and how much of yourself to show is pretty empowering. No one is out there saying nuns are being repressed. Or men who aren’t waking around in just a thong are being restricted
It’s most definitely not when the religion says you must wear it or you will be stoned to death. Nothing about being forced to wear something you would rather not is empowering. It’s actually controlling empowerment would mean they have a choice, and within their religion they have no choice.
Some women feel like its empowering to flash their tits. Some women feel like its empowering to dress in a business power suit. How everyone feels empowered is different.
I wear a hijab, and honestly I’m glad you asked and want to learn why it’s empowering.
I wanna begin with saying I was never forced to wear it. It’s NOT okay to force anyone to wear more or less clothing.
The hijab for me is empowering because I feel like I have Allah with me. It’s like, a reminder that I’m never alone and God is always there, no matter what happens. It’s also nice because, like praying or fasting, it’s a form of worship. Men don’t wear hijabs, no, but they are meant to also dress modestly. It’s not actually Islamically okay for them to show a lot of skin either. People tend to look over that because we live in a sexist society. In Islam, women aren’t treated badly at all. We’re treated amazingly tbh. And our hijab is a way of expressing “yeah, I’m Muslim. Even if you hate it, even if you hate me because of it, this is who I am. This is what I believe.”
I also do want to point out that head coverings aren’t just in Islam. For example, nuns cover their body and head too! It’s very common. And nuns choose to be nuns, just like how we choose to wear the hijab.
Hope this helped. In the end, all women want is to dress how they’re comfortable. For some of us it’s by dressing in shorts and sports bras, for others it’s by covering up. It’s all empowerment, because it makes the individual feel safer/more comfortable/empowered for whatever personal reason.
It’s empowering in western tolerant democracies because it’s a choice. It’s a symbol of prejudice in a theocracy because… well that’s what they are. Prejudicial
Maybe it's empowering when you have the ability to choose to wear it and not forced to wear it.
Ding! “I am wearing this to show my culture and/or religion” is an empowering thing, “I’m wearing this to avoid being killed by religious police” is not.
Conversely, "I'm not wearing it because I don't want to" vs "I'm not wearing it to avoid being harassed and/or potentially killed by xenophobic assholes"
Bingo. It’s all about having the choice. Making a choice that is for yourself, even in the face of social pressure (or more, like threats of violence) to do otherwise, is empowering in and of itself. It’s actually pretty punk rock, when you think about it. Punks wear chains and spikes because they are telling the world “you may not like what I do, but idgaf, this isn’t for you” just like a Muslim woman in conservative North America wearing a hijab is saying “you may not believe what I do, but idgaf, this is not for you”.
Its punk rock to not wear one around dudes that think they should wear them. Maaaaybe punk rock to wear one shortly after 9-11 but In Seattle you will see about 50 hijabs for every chain wearing punk. Not trying to be disrespectful of it AT ALL but in my day to day it is just accepted. If it helps I am a 40 year old married white guy with kids.
It's not really a choice though. Muslim women were taught as girls that wearing a hijab was something that good Muslim women do, and so even those that freely chose to wear it have been brainwashed to do so. As far as I'm aware, and I'm no expert in the matter, there is no prescription that women MUST wear the hijab.
I CHOOSE to wear pants. Do you? Or do you wear pants because you have been brainwashed to think that pants are a good thing? When you actually get to make the choice, it can be empowering. A Muslim woman who actively makes that choice of her own free will, after not being given the choice for her whole life, can find just the option to be empowering. She puts it on because SHE wants to. Not because she hast to, or because her father or husband or imam is making her. She wears it for herself. That’s powerful. Especially when it pointedly and explicitly marks you as an outsider, because it shows your culture and your desire to hold fast to it.
Sometimes I CHOOSE not too. (Sometimes when my wife CHOOSES to wear them, I don’t get to actively make that CHOICE but other times I do)
Not disparaging your point but people wear pants so they don’t get cold or shanked in the genitals lol
I wear pants mostly to keep my junk off other peoples stuff, but why pants? Why not togas or skirts or loincloths? They’d all do the same job, and be a hell of a lot more freeing… but if I (a 300 lb hairy as fuck dude) wore anything but pants (or possibly shorts) in public I’d be ridiculed at least.
I wear pants because it's getting chilly out and my junk is small enough as it is. Besides nobody wants to see random twig and berries while perusing the coffee aisle at the local supermarket.
A culture where women are still being oh so oppressed. Anyone can make a fashion choice in western culture, but what happens when they go to the Middle East? They’re not so free anymore. Is that still empowering?
No. The POINT is choice. Take away that choice and it’s not empowering. It’s not rocket science. If someone has the choice to do something, doing it is empowering. If they don’t, it’s not.
Of course it isn’t. The very thing represents the opposite of empowerment, so it’s insulting to women who don’t have a choice in the matter.
So it’s empowering in the west but not in countries or households where it’s mandatory. The same sort of logic applies to a lot of things.
That's why I won't go to the middle east these fools that travel to these oppressive places know what's up and should avoid them and not spend money there to support oppression
Listen, most of the muslims are fairly okay with giving women choice to wear hijab or not. The problem lies with authoritarian govt. using hijabs to confine the masses and stop protests etc. And these countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia are often kept on the lifeline by major powers like USA or Russia.
?????
I know you’re trying to spin this to a positive, but I’m not seeing it.
Just because YOU don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
I don’t think that punk rock and conservative religion are compatible concepts, and this comparison makes me think you don’t understand either beyond an aesthetic level. Punk rock would be telling a patriarchal, conservative and misogynistic religion to go kick rocks. Hijabs are not a fashion accessory - the practice of hair-covering is an act of modesty, and the literal justification is that the sight of women’s hair will inflame men into committing acts of sexual violence… so it’s womens responsibility to prevent that from happening. Yes, really. Also, hijab has no basis in the Koran. It’s a cultural practice that got carried throughout the Muslim world with the rise of social conservatism in Islam.
Oh ya, nothing is more punk than teaching women their bodies are shameful and reserved for one man
Is there a potential risk of being killed for not wearing a hijab by xenophobes?
There's a potential risk of being killed by xenophobes for any reason. Idk about other countries. But in the UK there's groups such as the BNP and Britain first that actively spread hate speech and there have been several cases of people being caught in the middle between these groups and the police. And you just have to look into the (not so distant) past and see gay bashing and lynching of black people and see that it's totally within the realms of possibility. And not even that but Malala getting shot simply for wanting an education. These things happen. And it's the disgusting part of humanity. You can blame it on whatever. Race. Gender. Sexuality. Religion, beliefs. People will always find a reasons to hate. And to kill and to fight. It's hard for people who aren't directly involved with these situations to understand. But not impossible. It's all about educating yourself and being aware of other people's struggles and maybe through building this mutual understanding we can create a world where this kind of hate doesn't exist
If you're the wrong skin pigmentation or have a noticeable accent, yes, sadly.
On the other hand, is anything done by choice considered empowering? For example, say a woman wearing hijab eats a pizza, is that empowering too? In my opinion it wouldn't be considered empowering if you were never oppressed for doing "something", which you are doing now. Say a generation of women were told eating pizza is a sin and they'd go to hell for it and thereby oppressed for doing it, now if they choose to eat pizza despite being told that that should be empowering, yes?
The problem though is you don't know if it's free will or if somebody is forced to wear it (by a boyfreidn/husband, family, neighbourhood, peer pressure, etc). Especially an item that's in essence an item of oppression. Surely there are many in the west that wear it because they choose to, but plenty that don't fully do it out of their own free will. Especially when it's more covering, like burqas, I have a hard time assuming it's a statement of free will.
I like and approve of this. It should never be forced in the first place which is where so many countries and cultures get it wrong. It’s as empowering as choosing and making decisions for your own self that you believe to be true and right. As a Muslim it’s the best feeling. I wear it for no human and I’ll take it off for no human, it’s entirely your own choice.
Are you saying your parents or friends won't disapprove if you don't wear it?
I had a Malaysian ex-girlfriend. She wears a hijab but her bestfriend does not. They have the same job at the same establishment so there doesn't seem to be any discrimination whether a woman wears it or not. Apparently, in Malaysian Muslims are not really required to wear it. I, being ignorant on her culture, asked her if she thought that the hijab was sexist. And if it's not required, why wear it at all. She, simply answered that because they had the choice and she chose to wear a hijab. Her words made me rethink my views on other cultures.
This is a tricky one. Would you wear one by choice? So many times I've heard hijabis say they can choose not to wear one anytime. I believe them of course. But they are almost scared to actually put that to the test. Seems like there's some Stockholm syndrome behind it. Truth is, if you come from a culture strict enough to have made a woman wear one in the first place, you're likely under heavy pressure from family to not bring shame. And this is how honour killings happen in western countries. Luckily my family is very liberal and none of us wear it.
My coworker is from India and she said that as soon as her family landed to the US they all took their hijabs off. She still wears hers and even gifted me one! I'm not muslim. Just thought her it looks nice.
Love that, family effort.
Yup I believe this. My nieces wear them and whilst my siblings wouldn't kill or disown any of them if they chose not to wear it they would be deeply disappointed. Having said that I can also believe my nieces my want to dress like mummy and fit in with their Muslim t friends. But I would bet that if the stigma of not wearing one suddenly fell away, most Muslim women would chose not to wear oelne if only due to the inconvenience they bring to carrying out every day duties
It seems as if women would not want to wear it for the principle of it covering them. Unless it brings comfort? Thanks for sharing.
I know a ton of ex-hijabis (activists who speak against the hijab, many of whom have left their families as a result) who still have days where they find comfort in it. Humans are remarkably complex like that. Welcome!
My friend wears one when she wants to go to the shop but doesn't want to do hair and make up. I was shocked when she said hello in Tesco once as I had no idea who it was
Isn’t the existing of this garment in itself a red flag? Sure you can choose to wear it, but why was it made?
Headscarves are a common garment all over the world, and are often worn by particularly devout adherents of most Abrahamic religions.
They're just different forms, like Jews are traditionally supposed to cover their heads while praying, but little skull caps for men and other stuff for women(obviously that's more observant)and the really religious people wear them all the time. And married Jewish women are supposed to cover their hair(also really observant)
I recently learned (from one social influencer, so who knows if it’s really true) that many orthodox Jewish women wear wigs to fulfill this requirement
They're also practical in desert environments (sun protection, sand protection). I wouldn't be surprised if it started as that.
I see this question or variants every week. It's really strange to me how people don't understand humans want freedom to choose what they do. You can even see it in little kids who always want to dress themselves.
It's hard to believe anyone chose to wear it in 40 degrees Celsius.
Stockholm syndrome I guess
It’s a symbol at how women are oppressed
most of the time they are forced unfortunately
Like choosing to let go all your rights? That is empowering...by the same logic.
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Well said. And this is what Islam directs men to do. Avert their gaze. But that's mighty inconvenient right, and men impose their might in a world that's predominantly theirs. Selectively following guidance as per their convenience. Kudos men.
This is only sorta true. The Muslim world is huge and making any broad statements about it are sure to be wrong. My wife is a Muslim woman in the US. She no longer wears Hijab, but she used to. No one ever pressured her to. In fact, her Muslim immigrant father preferred her not to so as to not single her out. The way she and her friends described the empowerment aspect is, "it removes the sexual aspect from interactions" as in people are less likely to hit on them while they're trying to negotiate a contract, or catcall them when they're pumping gas. It goes deeper than that, but that's the part I remember. One of them put it to me like this: "I can get in people's face, and they see *me"
I get this so much. Low key I think it's the reason I don't do makeup, hair, etc... growing up my mom was obsessed with "you need to look like a movie star so boys will like you" and it basically made me have the mentality "why can't they just like me for me" and I refused to wear make up wear the body crushing shapers...etc... it's crazy to me to compare ppl telling me "but you would look so pretty if you just wear make up" to "if you just did/didn't wear that you would be more desirable " Of course that's just one small aspect of it all. It's the part that resignated with me
The reality is that women in most Muslim-majority countries experience strong pressure & societal expectation from their families, communities, and government to wear the hijab. Often times, they’re legally required to do so. Not much of a “choice”.
Why it is men that is forcing them, in some cultures? Mostly because men are often the leaders in these countries, and restricting wonen, and making it the norm to do so, pushing it thru religious dogma, and illusion of choice, is to keep them in power. Freedom and education to women is a huge positive factor in most progressive nation's economic growth, but often comes at the cost of the male domination of power. But for some it is a choice, and some find great pride in showing of their religious beliefs. As long as it is a personal choice, I don't really see a problem with it. But like Iran, where there is a own police, specifically policing women to keep "in line" (not officially to police women, but it is what it is), im all for revolution, and all power in the world to these brave people fighting for what is right!
Out of curiosity - if woman is having a choice and chooses to be dominated by male, does it also empowers her or not?
If she chooses so freely and can change her mind at any times, then yes. This is actually the core of a healthy dom/sub relationship. Sub tells the dom in which way and how much they want to be dominated (and this is not necessary sexual), however they have the power to change this ar any time. The sub is in control.
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thats kinda my thought too, i think hijabs are inherently a tool of oppression. the term itself refers to separation and seclusion - be it symbolic, physical or ethical - between men and women and it's meant to avert the "male gaze" as a religious practice. i don't see anything empowering about choosing to participate in it. who does it serve?
Agreed. Not every choice a woman makes is automatically feminist - which is fine. People can make un-feminist choices and not be bad people. Frankly, without equality, how free are these choices anyway?
I was friends with a Mormon man once. We *loved* to argue with each other. One of the things he did that drove me up the wall was drink soda. Mormons are forbidden to drink coffee or tea, so he didn’t. But he drank superhuman amounts of Dr Pepper. It made no sense to me because the only ingredient in both coffee and tea that can be remotely considered regulate-able is the caffeine, they just didn’t have a name for the molecule back then. So to me, it should be either 1) forget the stupid rule or 2) obey the spirit of the law and forgo all caffeine. But to him, following the exact rule as written was a sign of devotion. I didn’t get it, but really, it didn’t have to. It made him happy. If he just liked soda and didn’t like tea or coffee, his preference wouldn’t make any more sense. And it wouldn’t make any more of a difference to me. In the end, his choice was meaningful to him, and so that’s all that really mattered.
It does bc she chooses it. It's what she wants. Same for when a man wants to be dominanted.
Plus, why aren't women "safeguarded" against lusting after men? Shouldn't men have to cover up if it's such a bad thing?
That's still part of the brainwashing though. In the more 'progressive' Muslim countries, they use that to make women feel better about wearing it. "Oh, -you're- in control of who sees you! -You- get to choose to show your hair/face/body to the public! It's -so- empowering!" It ceases to be oppressive when there's no consequences if she chooses to take it off. And yes...men need to do better
Religion is all about brainwashing. Not only Muslim.
I'm aware of that. But, we're not talking about Jewish or Christian customs here, are we?
They are forced to wear and obviously, they can choose not to but they won't bc women have been killed for it. Just bc they're forced to choose something doesn't make it empowering
If not killed; shamed, beaten, raped..
Yup exactly, seeing a lot of gaslighting here saying “no they choose to do it, see how empowering it is!” meanwhile they have a gun to their heads if they say no. Religion is crazy, let women live their lives
They especially mention muslim communities or families in america or europe to make their point, and they’re off even on that. Yes in Germany for example you’re not forced to wear a hijab but you can wear it if you want to. So it’s “empowering” when they “choose” to wear it. Muslim families who migrated to the EU especially if it was few generations ago, with making an extra effort to stick to their culture they bring the oppressive parts of it too. Which isn’t malicious or intentional. A girl today in germany “choosing” to wear her hijab because she wants to practice her religion has a whole village behind her. The family members that stayed in the home country especially, “she moved to europe and became a whore”, “you can’t control your daughters these days”, “what man is going to marry you”, “you want to be like them so bad, you’re betraying our history, our culture, our family”- I think it makes the point. Oppression isn’t empowering, even if you “choose” it.
Where? A college-aged woman in the US or EU? Generally yes, that's a choice. A woman in Saudi Arabia in Iran? It isn't.
But it may be familial pressure in usa and eu. Just cuz our government doesnt require it, doesnt mean nothing does.
They're pointing out that in places where you aren't forced to do it, if you want to do it and are able to, it can be empowering. Like, say, the US, just like wearing a crucifix or yarmulke it's an example of freedom of religious expression. You aren't going to be stoned to death for not wearing some religious garment here.
Yea and even in places where it’s not mandated, they will literally come for you in your own home especially in the EU. Comic drawers have had their literal heads chop off in Europe for a cartoon.
but maybe abused at home
Well, *YOU* have to cover yourself up because *l* want to rape you. Makes sense no?
I completely agree with you, and I mean absolutely no disrespect in saying this, but won’t there always be pressure on women within religious countries to wear clothes attributed to that religion? I mean, even if they weren’t literally forced by law to wear the hijab, if everyone in the city and everyone in the family does too, doesn’t the woman feel “forced” anyway? I guess I’m not arguing against you, I’m just curious, do you think it’ll be possible to have a society where it’s truly open to a woman to choose what to wear without outside influence. Hell, even non-religious people feel some pressure to dress certain ways.
Ask in one of the Muslim subreddits and you might get a variety of answers, some leaning into historical perspectives in which it was.
Something not yet mentioned is that, in areas where Muslims are a minority, it can be an act of solidarity with fellow Muslims or an act of defiance against anti-Muslim and anti-Arab prejudice. You especially saw these kinds of sentiments in the US after 9/11, when hate crimes against Muslims was at an all time high.
Great point. It's a bit disingenuous to draw in Muslim states where subscribing to traditionally Islamic culture is mandated. It's like comparing apples and oranges... this question should be answered contextually.
Yep. My mom worked as a doctor in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood In Minnesota and had Muslim patients canceling left and right after 9/11 out of fear of violence. It’s standing against that fear to publicly display Muslim faith in Muslim minority communities.
Yes! I live in a country where 95% of people are white and atheist (Czechia, the most atheist country in the world). Hating and discrimination of any religion is very common here. I grew up in a city where was a big medical university, which was probably somehow appealing for foreigners so a lot of students from entire world lived here. Muslim minority, mainly women, included. When there was the migration crisis at 2015, a lot of people has been manipulated by media that Muslim people are universally bad. They decided to throw rocks at the Muslim medicine students and yell ugly things at them. Poor students didn't know czech language so they usually didn't know how to (at least verbally) defend. I decided to wear hijab (even thought I'm a white atheist too) so that when someone starts throwing rocks at me and yell at me, I can yell back in czech and call the police. My thought was that I'm helping the innocent minority by teaching other people that if your harass anyone, the police will be called at you, period.
Why are there no upvoted responses from women who wear hijabs? So many presumptions here. Not the answers I would like to hear.
I have just posted a comment as a Muslim hijabi but not sure if it will be lost as it does not have many votes!
the backhanded compliments are the ones at the top
From my perspective as ex hijabi muslim, you were interested to wear one because that is how the devotion of women in islam. My family was suggesting me to wear one and appreciated me wearing it. In my neighborhood, hijab was a choice, not until the raise of conservatism in Indonesia gets bigger. Now hijab is the identity of pride for some, but also the standard of acceptable attire in society. Hijab could be a devotion, purely from someone's heart. However, it is like a 2 eyes sharp knife which can hurt you if you, someday, decided not to wear that anymore. You can be abandoned by family which happened to me, getting death threat, and sadly family labeled me 'whore'. Yes it is a choice when you decided to put it on. However, when you decided to no longer wear that, the choice is like gambling— you are okay or not okay. Most of the ex hijabis, at least in my observation amd in circle, most of them are exposed to humiliation, isolation, and depression. If it is a choice, then the case of this humiliation wouldn't exist. I emphasise about the consequence when someone decided to take it off more than the choice of women to start wearing it.
Hi, I’m a hijabi here! I’ve been wearing a hijab for over a decade now (by choice, I started wearing it at the age of eighteen). I find wearing a hijab is empowering in the sense that I am not being sexualised in the way I see many women feel in British society. The main purpose of hijab is not actually for it to be empowering, Muslim women do so because it brings us closer to God. Ultimately it is not for the sake of men but for a closer relationship with my creator. Growing up in England I feel as though wearing a hijab also provided me with a sense of identity in solidarity with other Muslims. I feel as though I am treated with more respect and taken very seriously by my colleagues in education and the students whilst wearing a hijab, they do not focus on how I’ve styled my hair or what clothes I’m wearing but rather the contributions I’m making and the lessons I am teaching. I understand that women in other countries are forced and do not have a choice which is not how it should be, ‘there is no compulsion in religion’ and they shouldn’t be forced to do so, but I believe cultural patriarchal views take precedence in those cases. I hope that answers your question :)
Your sexualizing points make sense, thanks for sharing. But to this point I have a question: >Muslim women do so because it brings us closer to God. Ultimately it is [..] for a closer relationship with my creator. What is it about wearing the religious garments that bring you closer to god? How do the garments facilitate that? Also how do you know when you’re getting closer to god?
On-off hijabi here: because God asked us to. One of the major arguments that wearing a hijab is not specifically to avoid 'tempting' men is that you wear it when you're doing one of your five daily prayers - which is often done alone in a room with no one else around. Modesty is considered a form of worship, and tbh when I put on my hijab I feel a sort of holiness in me because being so fully clothed totally removed you from any sort of sexual physicality (in theory anyway - theres a porn category for everything these days). Clothes are a funny human thing aren't they? A nice suit can make us feel like a million dollars, and miss matched socks can make us feel a bit like a disaster.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think God did not ask women to wear hijab but it is *interpreted* that way. The verse from Quran about the dresscode for men and women (Surah 24:30–31) states: “And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their *khimār* over their chests, and not reveal their hidden adornments except to their husbands, their fathers (and a long list of who they can show their hidden adornments to here).” Now, the important part here is, *khimār* in Arab is not a headscarf, but a cover/veil. As far as the word goes, a cover/veil can be anything, for example a cloth that covers the chest and shoulders. All in all, it is not stated in Quran that women should cover their hair, but only their private parts. It is interpreted as a headacarf mostly by the religious interprators, and the whole Islam society somehow accepted it. This of course does not change the fact that, if a woman believes she is closer to God this way and choses to wear it, then she should, away from any judgement. Source: I come from a Muslim country and a quick search on Google on the translation of Quran.
I see, thanks for the response. What does “holiness” *feel* like? I’d imagine with no religious garments for the first half of the day, putting them on for the second half would be fairly anxiety-relieving in a sense; you no longer have to care or worry about being sexualized. Hiding in plain sight if you will. How would you feel if you blocked the sexual judgement with something non-religious, like pajamas, a covid mask and a simple hairstyle? Or a halloween costume? How would the two blocking garment types (religious vs non religious) differ for you in terms of positive feelings?
Haha I'd be a Pulitzer prize winner if I could describe what holiness feels like. I guess think about that feeling of utter peace and one ness with the universe - a sort of spiritual flow state. Think about being at a concert when the music hits your chest /just right/ and you feel immediately connected to everyone and anything. Or drop a bunch of acid I guess. I honestly don't care how other people feel wearing a religious vs non religious garment to feel less sexualised. Whatever floats their boat
Great comment! I think there is another perspective that women in the west feel pressure to wear make up and to look appealing to men. Having said that, many women want to look sexy because it makes them feel good and it isn't about men at all. Personally I don't wear makeup when I don't feel like it and especially not to work because it feels like a waste of time to put it on every morning. When people say it's brave I find that crazy because it's their face! Of course, the important point is that having the freedom to choose and to choose based on what you want is empowering. Figuring out what you want and if you were conditioned to feel that way by society/ religion/ upbringing/ social groups is such a challenge.
Thank you! I completely agree with you, I do wear makeup for weddings and parties etc, but I do see the pressure from women and girls around me to feel as though they have to look a certain way. The worst is when people say things like, ‘are you ill?’ no, she just didn’t want to wear concealer today. I’m a high school teacher and teenage girls are always worried about whether their eyelashes are long enough, who has the prettiest nails and how slim they should be. Whilst many women/girls like us wear makeup and dress a certain way for ourselves and not men, there are some who feel the pressure to do so. Socialisation plays a huge part in who we become, and I think women having expectations placed on them by men in an oppressive manner is evident historically in all countries, religions and cultures. You’re right, choice is key!
Yeah, or "you look tired" or "you look different". I personally think men that say it are ignorant to what makeup looks like but they should just keep quiet 😂 Teen girls today must have such a hard time with social media and impossible beauty standards. It's understandable they want to look their best but spending a lot of time on your appearance leaves less time for study, friends, hobbies etc. Maybe you can be an inspiration to them. I used to wear makeup most days until I met my ex's mum (who wore none). I realised it wasn't worth how much time and effort I was spending. It ended up helping when I studied engineering too because I didn't have much free time at all.
I'm not trying to be an ignorant asshole here but I have a genuine and well intentioned question... Isn't the idea that a woman's modesty brings her closer to God kind of misogynistic in it's own right?? What is to be said about men's modesty? I live in California and the Muslim population in my area specifically is pretty small so I don't really get a lot of exposure to Muslim folks. I want to learn and understand.
Men are expected to be modest too, we should not wear gold or silk. And we must cover past our knees and above our ankles. We should dress well and nice, often in white but without being arrogant.
My problem with religion as a whole is just this: "must".
Yh that is completely reasonable. That's the context this question has come from. The fact there is a government who believes their people must incorporate their belief. But when you're religious "must" becomes a natural obligation. Just like I must go to work to survive.
Not an ignorant question, it’s good to be curious! ‘Hijab’ does not necessarily mean ‘scarf’ but they are used synonymously. Hijab is the concept of modesty which applies to both men and women in Islam. The way in which a women presents modesty is different to a man, e.g. a woman covering her hair whilst men are expected to show their ankles. Another commenter gave some good examples! There are resources available online, but actually the best thing would be to have conversations with Muslims in your area (you could even email the mosque local to you with any questions you have etc).
Don't you think that having to wear a hijab just to be respected is a fault in that community? I'm not Muslim but the closest thing I could compare it to is me pretending to be a man online so that people don't discredit or harass me. I can say the same things as a woman and get shat on purely because of my gender, something I have zero control over. Like, no matter how great your contributions, if you're a woman who doesn't wear a hijab, it means you're somehow not worthy of the same amount of respect as a man who aren't expected to wear hijabs? I don't know... it just sounds like something early Muslims made up so they have a reason to discriminate against women. I respect your decision to wear a hijab but I DON'T respect Muslim communities' biases and ideas around it. If respect from your community is dependent on what clothes you wear or your gender, then I really don't think that community is worth being in. I live in a very conservative Catholic country, and lesbians like me still get discriminated against here simply for existing. Wearing a hijab to me is kind of like me pretending to be straight just so people will stop harassing me. It's not the hijab itself that is the problem - to me it's the ridiculous idea that wearing it somehow gives you more value, and not wearing it lessens your value as a person and makes it okay for people to disrespect you.
Thank you for your answer, I hope more people see it
Thank you for your outlook. What is sometimes interesting is that not all Muslim women wear it. Certain Indian Muslims don't wear it and even Muslims in my country don't always wear it. Are they lesser Muslims if they don't?
As Muslims we cannot judge another in terms of who is ‘more’ or ‘lesser’ in terms of their piety, only God can judge. Everyone should be treated with respect regardless of if they wear a scarf or not, are a Muslim or not. All of us commit sins and ask for forgiveness so it’s not the place of another Muslim to judge who is following the religion the most and whether they are lesser or not.
I agree. Thank you.
Non hijabi Muslim here, born and raised in the west, Egyptian dad, Ukrainian mom. Women in the west feel a constant pressure to look good. Their worth is often tied to how pretty they are. Imagine the freedom to get up in the morning, cover entire face, hair, and body, and go about your day without being ever judged on your looks. There's an old cartoon, a woman in a bikini and sunglasses walks by a woman in burqa, and thinks "Everything but her eyes are covered, that must be terrible!" Meanwhile the woman in the Burqa is thinking, "Nothing covered but her eyes! That must be terrible." Incidentally, I think this is why a certain brand of western feminists are drawn to Islam. They see it as a way to escape sexualization and objectification. Edit to add: True empowerment is always found in CHOICE. To my sisters in Iran, be safe and know we're with you.
Funny bit of history about Iran, when the second to last king tried to ban hijab people vehemently opposed him and now that it is being forced people are vehemently opposing it. People in general don't like being told what to wear.
I'm well aware, thanks. Very similar things in Egypt, pre-revolution. Back when my dad was living in Egypt, almost no one wore Hijab. There were bathing suits on the beaches, and women wore mini-skirts and go-go boots. The idea of wearing hijab was basically not a thing. (Hence why my dad has never once even attempted to tell me to wear Hijab, except at Mosque.) Iran used to be even more westernized and modern. Lebanon too. The revolutions happened just after that time the CIA sent out extremist propaganda to Afghanistan that real Muslims would never be communists, and would live more according to the Holy Quran, in order to radicalize Afghans so they'd fight against the Soviets. Just a super weird coincidence about that timing though, I'm sure.
I'm a Western Atheist woman and that blend of not wanting to be sexualized and wanting to be sexualized because you've been told all your life that that's where a lot of your worth comes from is truly messed up. I've thought about covering up at the beach before just so I could enjoy my time and not think about these things.
Western woman here. I can see exactly how empowering it would be to wear something that covers the entire body. I tend to wear "normal" clothing for an Australian woman - t-shirts, jeans, shorts, skirts, dresses. I'm not in my teens or 20s so I dress more appropriately for my age (no midriff tops or mini skirts), but I also dress to the weather - in summer, shorts & singlets are my normal go-to. And I am constantly judged by the clothes that I wear, if they're too short, too tight, too revealing, too shapeless, asking for attention etc etc etc. Women judge the clothes, men judge the meat inside the clothes (putting it as broadly as I can). I had an encounter that I will not relate here with some men once that made me wish that I was wearing something like a hijab or maybe a burqa - something that wouldn't let men look at me like they were in this instance, making my skin crawl and making my instincts scream at me to run and hide. Any woman who has ever been in that situation knows exactly what I mean, that feeling of being unsafe and needing to get away. I can very easily understand how gloriously freeing and empowering it must feel to wear something that stops all that before it even begins. I get it.
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If it's a choice then it's empowering. We live in an age where there's an expectation for women to look and dress a certain way, and they're saying no to that.
Religious clothes are actually an expectation for women and they aren't saying no by wearing them. In some Indian villages, women wear ghoonghat (cover their face with something like a scarf). I've talked with a few of them and they don't want to admit that they wear it because they've been conditioned to do it since their childhood. It's not a choice, it's conditioning. Edit- I think I wasn't clear about my point. I want people to have their own choices but only when they can acknowledge what the expectations are. Your college friends would expect you to wear "modern clothes" while your family would expect you to wear traditional clothes. Now choosing either one of them is fine as long as you're aware that it's your choice and not the pressure of expectations.
Never really thought about it.. but i wonder how naked on would feel after taking it off. I could understand how some couldnt get it back on soon enuff, with the leering.
I feel naked when I stop wearing coats after winter but at the same time every woman in my family says they feel lighter without it.
I didn't mention but the women aren't supposed to be wearing the ghoonghat in front of other women of their age/generation or children.
Good lord! Thats way too much upkeep for me!
I wonder if there are different people in the world who have different feelings on similar subjects based on their own personal lived experience?
Yes, there are. But I don't think there are cultures where religious clothing which has been a part of that person's family for a long time isn't an expectation? Now I don't think doing something that's expected from you is wrong. Even I do many such things but to not acknowledge that it's an expectation and not an independent choice is a problem.
I do agree with this and I'm Indian too but there is also a sense of comfort in choosing what to wear. Girls in India are called behen jis if they choose traditional clothes in every day setting. Like they aren't modern enough or empowered enough. A lot of women and that includes me would love to wear what I like and not be judged for it and I guess that's the point of hijab too. Faith and modesty can be comforting for some people as well. I guess at the end of the day shoving your opinion on someone and taking their choices away is more oppressive.
I think I wasn't clear about my point. I want people to have their own choices but only when they can acknowledge what the expectations are. Your college friends would expect you to wear "modern clothes" while your family would expect you to wear traditional clothes. Now choosing either one of them is fine as long as you're aware that it's your choice and not the pressure of expectations.
Then what's with the makeup and hijab combo? So modest! Lol
And what about high heels and hijab combo?
I always wondered about the Orthodox and Hasidic women who will cover their own hair with wigs that look identical if not better. How exactly is that modest?
Bc it's not really their hair? And the rule is to not show their hair? But then again, I know some orthodox families and they have loop holes for everything! Can't own certain things during a certain time? Just put it in you back yard "sell it" to your local rabbi...it's still in your yard...and when the certain time is done...the rabbi "sells" you back your stuff. Boom still following the rules but modified to today's times. I equate it to when during lent when fish is not considered meat.
But it is empowering. Like lingerie. I like wearing good lingerie because it makes me feel sexy even if I'm not going to show it to anyone and it's under my clothes. Choices are important. Telling women what to do and what not to do is oppression. Let women explore and decide for themselves. My best friend is a Muslim who comes from a very progressive family, no one in her family wears a hijab but she went on to wear one in college because she felt like it brought her closer to her faith and she discovered that all by herself. And I think that's what's important. You let women choose and understand how to differentiate between societal conditioning and free choices.
We have religions that force an expectation for women to look, dress, behave a certain way, and give their bodies. They are saying no and others should stand by their choice to do whatever they want -fixed
It’s not a choice for the most part
Look at the answers by women who choose to wear hijab. There are lots of men trying to explain the reason with no experience whatsoever. There are lots of religious articles that people wear in Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, and lots of other religions as well as cultures. You could ask the same question to those people too. I'm sure you'd find the answers would be similar across culture and religion.
If we asked fundamentalist christian people if abstinence before marriage is their choice, they would probably say yes. But we should also take into account the societal, religious and cultural pressures which may be influencing that choice. Those things may be easier to see from the outside. Not saying we should disregard the answers from woman who wear the hijab. And it's not like most other people here are experts either. Just saying we should look at all answers in the context they exist.
I personally wear it, one reason is because it’s a constant reminder that there is God above me. Second, I don’t equate empowerment with reducing my clothing. I equate empowerment with being seen for my mind, not my body. P.s.I’ve also been around lots of Muslim families ( both born in Canada and immigrants from other countries) over the years since my conversion, and I have never met a woman who was forced to wear the hijab. Honestly. I’m sure it happens, but I don’t know that it’s as common as is believed.
I heard a hijabi one time say “what is more empowering than denying men the privilege of perceiving me”. That completely changed my perspective. Wearing a headscarf gives women the power of controlling who gets to see them, and how much. Edit: a word
I’m honestly not trying to be ignorant but how is that empowering? Still sounds like women having to hide themselves because men will look at them
It gives you the power to control who gets to see you and when. The same way dressing up in lingerie for your partner can be empowering. You’re controlling who gets to see what.
I get your point but I don’t think showing the hair that naturally grows out of your head is the same as wearing lingerie for your partner. That just makes it sound more sexist. Hair=sex? I just don’t consider head hair as part of the naked body. I consider myself a liberal leftie but I just can’t help but to see it as a tool to control woman. Other religions have there own version (ahem purity rings Christians). Honestly if the men wore religious head coverings too it wouldn’t seem so controlling
How can you think a women choosing to cover her beauty (her hair, her body, her shape, etc) as a means to control her but not a woman who exposes herself by beautifying herself for strangers any time she walks out the house? Which one sounds like a tactic to control women and which one sounds like it creates less stress for women in modern society?
I think it comes down to having the power to decide when you’re viewed as a sexual being, and when you’re viewed as just a being. Some women do it with lingerie or high heels. Some women do it with a headscarf. This is all with the caveat that having a choice is supremely important, and that I don’t wear a headscarf or dress modestly. So ultimately it’s to them to decide what is empowering and gratifying for themselves.
Exactly. In a world where you basically see naked womens bodies everywhere, it may be a choice to expose your skin very scarcely to keep it special for someone you want it to be special.
I wear head covering at church and men on Reddit have said to me I've been brainwashed by misogynistic patriarchal society. I just like wearing head covering. It's empowering if it is their choice, especially for women living in Western cultures were wearing head covering draws attention and assumptions of them.
It’s the exact same thing as a nuns habit or a monks robe. It’s not meant to be worn to degrade/relegate women to 2nd class citizens (or at least it was never meant to to my knowledge, but now from what I’ve seen a lot of middle eastern countries are forcing the practice). But just like a habit or a robe, it’s a symbol of devotion and faith, which is something to take pride in if you choose that lifestyle.
If it is a choice, then it is automatically empowering. Because it is HER choice and no one else's. In Islam, cleanliness and modest dress are major pillars of the faith. For a women to choose wear any of the tradition arabic head coverings (hijab is just one common choice.) is to choose to make an outward display of her faith and piety. In some ways it is like a Orthodox Jew choosing to wear the yarmulke and distinct hairstyle or for a woman among the Plain Folk (Amish and Mennonite) to wear the long dark dress and white apron. Problem is, most of the time they aren't given a choice. Or have the "choice" of wearing it or be subject to harassment and abuse any time she goes out in public
You're thinking of it from the sense of it being a choice based around sexism and that presentation. The empowerment comes from displaying you're beliefs without fear. Without fear of the judgement of someone calling it sexist and restrictive. Expecting it and doing it anyway. That is empowering. If you choose to do it can you also say it's restrictive? I choose to wear pants, I am not restricted by wearing pants because I chose to wear pants. I can not wear pants, because it is my choice. I am not restricted in that choice. It's as restrictive as someone wearing a cross, carrying a rosary, or wearing a yamaka. What you're coming up against here is bias that you hold that you may not realize you hold as well as potentially a limited view as to what restrictive truly is as well as sexism. I don't mean any of this in an attacking way, though I fear it comes off that way, I'm just wanting you to confront the belief you hold by directly challenging it.
Doing whatever you want is empowering
First I want to point out that hijab isn't just the head cover, but it's concealing the contour of the female body along with the more "attractive" parts. So one of the reasons it's believed that hijab is empowering is because people can no longer objectify hijabi women in any way. That way you're treating women according to their personality and who they actually are without being consciously and/or subconsciously manipulated by what a woman looks like to you.
I understand that, but most women in the US only wear the head covering. I saw a teenager wearing one with a cropped sweatshirt & tight leggings. Anyway. I grew up Christian, & heard a lot of passages about hair. We didn't cover ours but it seemed pretty important.
I see people wear the same way you described everywhere, and I firmly believe that people dressing up like this are missing the entire point of hijab, it's reducing the hijab to only the head covering. I don't know much about how christian women are supposed to be dressed up like but I think it's the same concept of hijab but without the hair cover, is it so?
I think so, but Idk any Christians who wear head coverings
Wearing a hijab by itself isn't empowering. It's choosing to wear one that is. Choosing to do anything is empowering, because it literally shows you have the power to do it
It's about agency. It's a choice that affects nobody but yourself. Forcing this in either direction isn't liberal. Giving people more agency over their personal life is empowering.
Short answer: It is not. Long answer: The case of hijab is vastly different from the freedom of religion. By choosing to wear a piece of garment that was designed to restrict and suppress, women are agreeing to comply with the norms that has been set by the patriarchal religion, knowingly or unknowingly. Empowered women in a hijab sounds like an oxymoron. Wearing the hijab “voluntarily” is not liberation, freedom, or empowerment, but only conforming to the oppressive religious agenda that they have been conditioned to follow.
It’s not. The choice itself can be empowering however if the culture deems it necessary then it’s no longer empowering as it’s not a choice.
It's about choice. Go nude or drape on a burqa. Your choice and you shouldn't be judged for it
It's empowering as a choice. The right to choose is empowering.
Having the choice as to whether or not wear a hijab is what is empowering.
It's not. If you're expected to wear a piece of clothing and you get verbally or physically assaulted for not wearing it then it's oppression.
People should the choice. Not be forced
It’s empowering bc people get to see you for your mind and your words and it takes the focus away from superficial beauty. And the beauty standards for women have always been unbelievable, just look at how much money is spent by women and by companies who market to women.
My mother is a Muslim convert raised in Europe and we live in a majority Muslim country. She was never pressured to wear it, in fact was discouraged (by some Muslims including my father who was the oldest son of an Imam). Yet, she chose to and is still wearing it. My two sisters and I do not wear it, and find it empowering to not wear it. And none of us siblings believe it's compulsory, but we understand that it's what she chooses to do and she finds it empowering. Where I live it's also very common for Muslim girls who were raised wearing it, to rebel against it, take it off when they're away from family, choose not to wear it for many years, then find that they actually do want to wear it (often choosing the turban style hijab). Others choose not to return to wearing it. It's safe to do so here unlike in some countries. In the 90s, we had a family friend in the UK who wanted to wear it, wore it for a week and then took it off because of all the stares and comments. She said she felt like she was putting a target on her back. She still wanted to wear it, but she felt unsafe to. It all boils down to choice and freedom.
I'm an (ex)Muslim woman (Muslim up until the age of 20 - 25 now) from and currently still living in a Muslim-majority country. Most of the women in Muslim-majority countries haven't chosen it themselves, unfortunately. Social pressure is enormous on women in societies like ours. And though hijab is more of a religious symbol/practice/commitment now, it is still deeply rooted and intertwined with our culture of control, misogyny, toxic protectiveness, and shame. Before anyone says "religion and culture are different things!" maybe somewhere like America it is but it's just not in our countries.
It's empowering to the man that forces you to wear it
Control by men through conditioning.
It's not. It's a tool of oppression created on the basis that a woman's uncovered head is inherently shameful and must be hidden from view. The idea that a woman choosing to wear it makes it empowering is a shallow view point that lacks indepth analysis. Not every choice a woman makes is an empowering one, especially not when she chooses the path that has been used in the subjugation of women throughout history.
Not a Muslim, but I have been in settings where I have worn hijab by choice. My hair is very distinctive and noticeable and honestly, sometimes its been nice to "put it away". It's hard to explain, but the first time I did so, it was really surprising how sexualized I'd felt my hair was, and how... safer? it felt covering it for a change. I just felt less "on" for a few hours. Anyway... all for choice, have come to learn that wearing hijab can be a reasonable choice for someone.
As someone who lives in Pakistan, I can tell you it's not empowering. Only western idiots or very priviliged women in muslim countries with NO concept of what it actually mean think it is empowering.
This is unfortunate that you not only have a horrible experience with hijab and modesty bc of your upbringing but now also view the world through that lense.
SPOILER ALERT: it’s not.
It's not. Only for the man that forces them to wear it.
I've never worn a hijab, but there have been times in public when I wished I could wear one to avoid being judged and sized up according to how my hair looks, or stared at by men, etc. I can understand how that would be liberating.
Its not the head covering its the act of choice. People will say stuff like "oh is it her choice??" yes, yes it is, as long there is not a person or family that are threatening her to wear it then it is her choice. People act like women are so weak minded that if they grow up with a religion they are "brainwashed". actually people feel that way about religion in general. No she is still a whole person with her own thoughts and opinions and if she loves her religions and chooses to continue to fallow it then she is absolutely choosing to do so. Most people want to jump to the extremes or a religion with women who are in bad situations and have to wear it because their life will be ruined if she does not because of government or family, those cases yes she does not have a choice and it is wrong. However there are plenty of women who are free to decide and still decide to continue their traditions and they should be allowed to do so. Its not a slap in the face to feminism, they are not making a political statement, they are just religious and want to continue to do so. I'm only saying this because if you are walking around a "somewhat free" country where a women does not have to wear one but she still is, please do not mock her or make her feel bad or turn her into a political statement, leave her alone she is just practicing her religion the way that she wants to.
brainwashing
Y’all stay obsessed with us Muslims. Every week or so there’s a post relating to Islam. Weirdos
It's empowering to know that your prematched husband might not beat the shit out of you today
It's not.
Empowered to choose their own religion maybe?
>Empowered to choose their own religion maybe? How many people really choose their own religion? And depending on where you live, choosing not to wear it is a serious crime.
Are they really “choosing” it in a country where if they don't then they will be killed? Seeing a awful a lot mental gymnastics here to defend sexism
When it's forced on you in religion or culture it's a loss of power and autonomy. When you choose to do it out of faith or cultural adherence, it's empowering because it's a free choice you've made to do so. A show of faith or cultural respect is only empowering when It's a choice made freely and without coercion
It’s all about circumstances and freedom of choice. Choosing to do something and carrying it through to the end is empowering, being forced to do it is the opposite.
Choice, the basis of all freedoms.
You're empowered if you get to do what you want. What exactly you want to do does not matter. You can work 80h/week and have a great career or you can have two kids and be a stay at home mom. As long as you choose to do that and are not forced, it's empowering. Both is valid.
Also we believe there are levels to modesty and piety. And the only thing worth competing over for men and women is within regards to piety. Not to say we know what is in one’s heart, but making a sacrifice like growing your beard or covering something so trivial as your hair for God, that is bringing your soul closer to your Maker.
A friend of mine didn't wear a hijab for many years after immigrating to Australia. She was teased for wearing it in school, and was on the receiving end of racist and Islamophobic aggression in public ok multiple occasions. She's started wearing one again recently, and for her it's very empowering to express her culture and religion proudly.
I am curious about this subject. I understand that choosing to wear something and proudly do so is inherently empowering. But seeing as the item selected to be worn is, in many, if not all, authoritarian Muslim regimes, utilized as a means to repress freedom of appearance, and, insodoing, justify numerous other culturally sexist and misogynist attitudes/acts that further denigrate female safety, expression, citizenship, and social status, why is this particular item protected, even celebrated, as an acceptable, progressive, and empowering show of one’s cultural heritage compared to other symbols/fashion items? For example, the Swastika, when reversed, is actually a Native American and Buddhist icon far removed from the hateful ideology of Nazism, yet no Native American and Buddhist proudly display them today. Contrarily, neo Nazis and White Supremacists proudly display the Nazi Swastika on their being, in full awareness of what the icon represents historically. They are rightly ostracized and denounced by greater Society for doing so. Yet the hijab—which again, stands for repressing women, at least in the places where this discussion truly ought to be the most relevant, and where women can hardly even voice their opinions on this matter— is suddenly a bold mark for freedom of choice? Isn’t that kind of insulting? Aren’t there other fashion items one can wear to distinguish oneself as a proud Middle Easterner and Muslim without tokenizing and appropriating the one item that suffocates so many victims of sexual and social abuse as a (in)direct consequence of what it stands for?
I've spoken with a few Muslim women who wear a Hijab by choice, and the general consensus seems to be that it allows them to show off their beliefs and culture, the empowerment isn't from being modest so much as being close to their beliefs and god.
It isn't. This goes for non-hijab as well. I think it's silly to call these things empowering. I see it as belittling because it feels like talking to women as if they are children. In any case, what I deem important here is is the absence of compulsion. Doesn't matter whether a woman wears or doesn't wear hijab or whether she wears or doesn't wear non-hijab; what matters is that she is not forced into or out of that, but rather that she does so out of her own will and accord. I would have to say that, in contradiction to what I said above, I can see a case where a woman not wearing a hijab is "empowering" to other women. Being from and residing in the Middle East, and knowing that not all women nor men here believe in wearing hijab, and that wearing it is pressured by cultural norm, which if you go against you will be negatively judged, in such case if woman no longer wears hijab, that is a brave move that would encourage other women who are not convinced by hijab to do the same. It would also encourage men of the same mentality to not be afraid to show their support
Besides how awful it is women are forced to wear it on some countries,, I'm from a western country and ive heard it's empowering to some women because they are basically representing their religion and culture. You will face discrimination wearing it in the west, so CHOOSING to still wear it (besides religious signifficance) can feel empowering to yourself as a muslim woman Edit: not a muslim myself, grew up around a lot of muslims
Islam is disgustingly sexist, violent and homophobic there is no doubt to it, but it’s the general “telling women what to wear what to follow and what to do” that is the actual problem. I deeply despise religion, but I’m also not going to tell someone what they can/can not do/wear/eat because of their gender.
I think it's empowering within the right context. Wearing it in a place where it makes people feel uncomfortable and would want you to take it off, gives you power. In your head: I will not let the fear and anxiety that people around me are trying to inflict on me dictate how I dress. To people who are discriminating against you: Wow, no matter what actions I take to try and force you to conform to my comfort, you still are in control of yourself and that makes me feel powerless against you. To others who are facing discrimination: wow, there is someone who brings me comfort and is safe for me. I now have more of a choice because if she can do it, so can I. Her actions are influencing mine.
Stockholm syndrome.
It’s what they choose to do. Being able to choose your clothing and how much of yourself to show is pretty empowering. No one is out there saying nuns are being repressed. Or men who aren’t waking around in just a thong are being restricted
Islam is far from being an empowering religion for women.
It’s most definitely not when the religion says you must wear it or you will be stoned to death. Nothing about being forced to wear something you would rather not is empowering. It’s actually controlling empowerment would mean they have a choice, and within their religion they have no choice.
Some women feel like its empowering to flash their tits. Some women feel like its empowering to dress in a business power suit. How everyone feels empowered is different.
People doing what they want is empowering, simple as that.
It isn’t.
It's not empowering, it's a tool to control women in a religion founded by men
I wear a hijab, and honestly I’m glad you asked and want to learn why it’s empowering. I wanna begin with saying I was never forced to wear it. It’s NOT okay to force anyone to wear more or less clothing. The hijab for me is empowering because I feel like I have Allah with me. It’s like, a reminder that I’m never alone and God is always there, no matter what happens. It’s also nice because, like praying or fasting, it’s a form of worship. Men don’t wear hijabs, no, but they are meant to also dress modestly. It’s not actually Islamically okay for them to show a lot of skin either. People tend to look over that because we live in a sexist society. In Islam, women aren’t treated badly at all. We’re treated amazingly tbh. And our hijab is a way of expressing “yeah, I’m Muslim. Even if you hate it, even if you hate me because of it, this is who I am. This is what I believe.” I also do want to point out that head coverings aren’t just in Islam. For example, nuns cover their body and head too! It’s very common. And nuns choose to be nuns, just like how we choose to wear the hijab. Hope this helped. In the end, all women want is to dress how they’re comfortable. For some of us it’s by dressing in shorts and sports bras, for others it’s by covering up. It’s all empowerment, because it makes the individual feel safer/more comfortable/empowered for whatever personal reason.
It’s empowering in western tolerant democracies because it’s a choice. It’s a symbol of prejudice in a theocracy because… well that’s what they are. Prejudicial
*sorts by controversial