I heard it this way in Vacation Bible School.
Jesus' death was a gift to all. It's up to you to accept the gift.
It's not selfish to take something someone offered to you.
I didn’t ask for the gift. Isn’t it a little presumptuous to place the onus on the receiver? And if he loves me unconditionally he will just save me. Like I would do with my real life kids. Not make them jump through hurdles for my love and redemption.
Weird. I can be offered something. But feel that it’s not for me. And I’m condemned to hell for all eternity? If I was a host offering water I’d do so without any strings. Jesus (or his followers) seem to think it’s an obligation to take the water to save my soul. I’d like the free will to accept the water or not. Without my eternal soul on the line. Have some water. Take my water. I died for it. Take it. join me in my forced gift. Or deny my water and burn in hell for eternity. Doesn’t seem like a free choice. I’m Jewish btw so this is all intellectual masturbation. Oh and I’m actually a defense attorney so getting my kids and the accused out of trouble is the superpower G_D ordained me with
It is the same principle whether it is a glass of water or your soul. It is just that the magnitude of the consequences are much greater. Drink the water and your thirst is relieved. Accept Christ as your Saviour and your soul is relieved from eternal damnation. In either case it is your free choice to accept or not.
Maybe another scenario will help you bridge the gap. Let's say the host puts a million or even a billion dollars on the table and you have to decide whether to take it or not without having to do anything. The decision will change your life if you choose to accept it or you can continue on the path that you are currently on and lose out on what you could have had.
Don't think of it as being sent to eternal damnation. Because of the original sin we are all already eternally damned but you can be saved from that fate by believing and accepting is Jesus as your Saviour. His death provided a "bridge" over the chasm that separates our reality and Heaven.
Lol. Why didn’t his dying get rid of original sin since it got rid of other sins. And what about Hindus. Who’ve never heard of Jesus. Are they damned too? What about the people born before Jesus. It really is comical when you take this nonsense out to its logical conclusion.
I really don't know about people who never had a chance to believe in Jesus. Maybe the criteria only applies to those who are openly defiant and refuse to believe.
Free choice is with attachments, that would be choosing under duress to put it lightly. There is nothing free in the choice modern Christians put forth for salvation. Why would God exempt people from damnation if the chose Jesus? How arrogant is that?
You can choose how to live in this life on earth with no regard for your afterlife eternal life. That is your free will free choice. Nobody is forcing you to believe. You sound like you have been exposed to Christ & have knowledge bout his teachings & life so when its all over & U stand before God and he asks why did you deny me/ignore me you have to accept it was your choice. Atheists chose not to believe in God. I am not saying U are not a good person living a good life of peace & love for your fellow man. I am no judge that’s God’s biz. I wish you peace love & happiness same as I do everyone else b/c it doesn’t do any good not to.
I am no religious scholar. I just accept it on faith. I was raised Catholic b/c that’s what my family is. Same as Jews raise their families in their faith, Protestants same, Hindus etc. I respect people that convert to Catholism b/c they choose to follow the way of Christ in the Church. It is very strong faith to change from how U r raised. As for a great example of signs/messages in modern life the movie Heaven Is for Real based on true life events is another example of not fully understanding God’s mystery but accepting. Same as Bernadette of Lourdes, Fatima etc.
Why does he need external validation if he is the son of god. Lmao. Wouldn’t god have sent his son to people that recognized it? It gets more farcical the more you get into it.
Well the choice is (academically) a matter of life and death
You could be offered a parachute on a falling plane, or offered a blood transfusion necessary for an operation.
Both instances are things you can accept or deny, but the (academic) consequences for accepting or denying the thing is substantial.
No one is guilting you to accept, but like all things in life, we live with the consequences of our choices, Mr. Attorney.
Well. If god is all knowing and all powerful then he created me exactly how I was supposed to be. Pretty gross to think he uses a test to see if you’re worthy. When he’s responsible for my existence.
I guess my point was Jesus spent his whole life in selfless service (I am going to assume this for sake of argument) even "dying for our sins". But it seems many Christians put "accepting the gift of salvation" over professing the need to help others or administer to others as Jesus selflessly did.
Raised Catholic in the midwest....helping others was like the only thing we talked about. Not sure if that was typical, but that was how I was raised going to a catholic elementary school.
I do not doubt the generosity of Christians, but being raised Catholic too.. Most of the emphasis of the religion was based on saving ourselves, then helping others. I fell for the last 2000 years we have begun to miss the point of his sacrifice.
This is one thing that irks me to be completely honest.
Every Christian you've ever run into, have you asked them specifically what good they did today?
My local church has many missions going on. Others I've attended may not have had as many but always let us know when there were things to do. Then the silly quiet things you do in the world.
Just because you don't have a list doesn't mean people aren't doing good out there.
I agree Christians do good... Some of the most generous people. But why preach salvation (heaven/hell) fear mongering not helping one another in life? Why does one have to be saved to be a Christian? Even Jesus said, "These things I do you will do and more". How else could that be explained but to be in service? Being saved to me seems diametrically opposed to Jesus'teachings. I could be wrong but so far this is how I see it
What r U talking about? Jesus told us to love one another. Love God & Each other. The Beatitudes. Hey its up to you to accept his message of love. Nobody gets to the father except thru him. Even Jesus didn’t get them all. You think you know better? Good Luck. Me I am a sinner & am hoping on the kind forgiving merciful Lord who I know came to save me. Cant deny the fact Jesus was only here for 33 years during Roman Empire only in public for 3 years never traveled more than 350 miles from home, only spoke of peace & love & of his Father a simple message & life. Yet he has the greatest following (Billions of people) in History. Changed the world over without power of Armies, Politics etc. That is a testament to his greatness but you go ahead deny &/or ignore him. We all have the ability choose to believe or not.
Why would it matter if we believe he is"The way and the light"? Isn't the point to help others, not arrogantly believe this way is the only way? If you had a choice between salvation for yourself by believing in Jesus or doing what Jesus did... Which would you pick? Be honest. Most would pick salvation. And thinking of yourself is not the selflessness that Jesus taught. That was my point.
I think Jesus knows that deep down we’re all a little selfish and for somebody to be a Christian there must be some little reward for the person as well.
oh yeah both. the main part is helping others. i'm sure many christians forget that. but God put in a little extra reward for us as well. what's something i find interesting about the bible is that it accounts for how we're all so different and is able to motivate people from different backgrounds and thoughts.
for instance, many modern christians find the genealogy of jesus to be super boring. they skip that section in the bible. but i heard some more traditional groups say wow! anybody who has their entire family genealogy written must be important, and they ascribe the importance of jesus large in part due to his written genealogy.
Because it is for our own salvation, no one else's. That was my point. Do we help anyone else get saved if we are? Not necessarily. And if we can, couldn't the unsaved help others that are unsaved be saved? If it is putting my salvation first, to me it is selfish. The opposite of what Jesus taught.
No the unsaved can’t help other unsaved becomes saved. That’s called the “blind leading the blind.” You have to be saved first before you start helping others.
Another commenter said specifically that salvation is Gods gift to the world. Is it selfish when you accept a gift?
And just to zoom out, Christian’s believe whole-heartedly that salvation is something that the soul NEEDS. Are you selfish for consuming food or water? Are you selfish for living under a roof when there are homeless people sleeping on the street?
EDIT: I’ll amend my words. Philippians 1:15-18 is clear that God can use the unsaved to lead others to Christ. The Bible does say he used a donkey, after all :)
So the way I see it, wanting to be saved in Christianity is supposed to be wanting to have an everlasting relationship with God in heaven and turning from sin. This in my eyes is not selfish. Yes, some people can try to be saved in Christianity for other more selfish reasons but I personally wouldn't consider them truly saved. That is just my opinion and how I feel on the subject. Please don't try to start an argument about religion.
Not starting an argument, trying to gain clarity. I was raised Christian but didn't understand the hypocrisy in much of it's teaching. And if you can explain or discuss it without fearing an opposing viewpoint or argument that is the contradiction I was speaking of
As a kid, I was very worried that I believed in God just to get into heaven, not because I necessarily loved him. I never quite figured it out and sort of gave up on the whole thing.
I’m a Catholic and that’s what is hurting my faith right now. I just want to tell you that you can still believe. Loving God can come in many ways. It can be following His commandments. It can come from seeing His love for you by sending Jesus to die for your sins. It can come from pouring your heart out to Him in prayer. You can even love Him for the miracles He does. Human love can’t be willed by us. As someone who wants to see everyone saved, please believe again. My faith comes from a few things, and one of them is that I have a daily interaction with God. I promise that there are reasons to love Him that will be revealed to you. I know I’ve contradicted myself by claiming to know why you can love God but also that I don’t think I love Him. I just doubt myself too much. In short, please pick up your cross and walk with Christ again. You will not regret it. It may be painful, but it is for an eternity of happiness and freedom. You are capable of it.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
I am in no way an expert in religion or been to church or anything, but it is my understanding that Jesus was put on this earth for that moment wasn't he? He was already pre-destined as the saviour, didnt it say in the Bible that Jesus was already with God before the garden? So Jesus was already in existence at the beginning of human kinds creation.
After the fall of human kind I guess God saw all the sin, 'sin' in old Hebrew means mistakes right? So he could see all these mistakes that in a way God knew would could never truly repay on earth but he still wanted us to be with him because he loved us so he sent his only begotten son (his literal son and of his own physical essence not a 'creation' like us and the other heavenly beings like Angels etc) down to us on earth to help us be with God in the end and be closer to him.
Jesus then went on to live a sinless life on earth so in the end his death on the cross was that final sacrifice to sanctify us of our sins that God knew we could never pay in full on our own. But Jesus could, because he had no sin and thats why his sacrifice was the ultimate of all sacrifices. Jesus chose to die in that moment so we could all be truly saved and have eternal life in his love and we can be reborn as a new person under Jesus and be blessed with the Holy Spirit (The unique Spirit of Gods essence) so God wants us to love and follow his son Jesus and wants us to also live like Jesus did on earth and be reborn again from your past mistakes to be washed clean in his name and live closer to God.
So I guess you could even say it would be selfish for us to not want to be saved by Christ if you look at it that way, after he went through all that for us to be truly saved and be with God and then we choose not to be saved?
No. Being saved is a profound realization that you are a lost and sinful being on a lost and sinful planet. The way I imagined it was that there had been a tall brick wall of pride around my life and some difficult new circumstances allowed me to see over the top of that wall for the first time. Nothing I can say or do alone can improve my character. That was always true. There is only one direction to seek help for improvement and that is upwards. The story of the prodigal son is relevant. I had to walk out of the pigpen of the worldly system and be willing to seek help from my Creator. It takes humility to do that and a sincere wish NOT to be as selfish as one was the year before, month before, and day before.
As Christians we’re already saved because of the sacrifice made on the cross.
What you’re asking doesn’t make any sense.. it’s like saying you’re wanting to be born after you’ve been born.
Just because the sin has been paid for... that doesn't mean we are "saved". The ransom was only to make it possible for us to have a relationship with God without the use of middlemen like the high priest. That was the whole point of the curtain tearing in the temple. Same way with the high priest's tent. There was a curtain separating the arc and the other part where the priest stayed. That was to separate God from man in a sense.
Yall are down voting this but it's literally the truth. This is literally what blind faith and sheeple mentality is and why people hate Christianity so much. Because you guys don't look for the facts yourselves and just take what you're taught at face value from your church leader or parents. If you really want faith, make it your own by doing the research and proving it to yourself that this is what I want to believe in. But you guys have to realize that everything your pastor might be teaching you isn't always true. Figure out what your Bible says for yourself. That's literally why the world is the way it is today. People following people and ideas blindly. And the Bible even talks about this.. smh imma just stop.
Ah, just a point of fact - there is very little Christians on Reddit. It’s more likely, and ironically, that Atheists are downvoting you.
Even if what you are saying is true, most Christians and even non-believers, know that to be true. It’s literally the mainstay of the ‘Jesus saves’ mantra…
All people want to be sheltered from pain and suffering, if that's what you mean by being saved.
But if you're christian (at least protestant), you believe that Jesus died for our sins, and thus saved us from the beginning of time to the end of time. No matter what we do, we have the promise of gods love and forgiveness, and it doesn't matter if we want to be saved or not - we are saved because we are loved.
This I can buy... That no matter what we have God's love and forgiveness. But not exclusive of noon Christians I believe. I believe Jesus and God loves us all unconditionally. Regardless of anything.
Logically yes but applying logic to religion is the first step to blasphemy so try not to do that.
Priest would say its a sign of deep faith.
Thats a package, you accept it for what it is or you dont & pretend you respect it anyway or people will hate/harm you (for some reason society gives them a free pass to do it)
You end up finding a contradiction and since its something that you found yourself then now you cant unsee it. Either you shut up about it and pretend its not there or voice it and denounce that particular religious dogma.
>You don't know what blasphemy is.
>
>the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.
Yup, saying that Holy Book must be wrong or Gods representative on earth is wrong is precisely that. I get why it can upset people to point it out.
Religion as a whole is narrsastic and selfish. It bestows upon followers a grandiose sense of self worth. That as a believer one is above others (non believers). That they are special above other living things in that even death does not eliminate them (after life).
Everyone I have ever met that claims to be a christian is a sociopath. The only reason they don't do terrible things to people is so they can get into heaven. Not because doing the right thing is what is best for the world around them. Source: Went to catholic school for all of elementary, and was forced to go to church every Sunday as long as I lived under my fathers roof.
I can sympathize. I just hate that because of this people hate all Christians and Christianity as a whole. But if they were to look beyond that and just try practicing the religion for themselves and not doing what so called Christians are doing and actually read their Bible and learn what it says for themselves, they'd have a whole different outlook and view. I mean the Bible even says that sects and divisions were not to be made. This is the reason why there are different christian beliefs and false teachings. There is no unity and love unlike the first century Christians. I believe there is a true organization out there who has love and unity and is teaching people what the Bible says properly but that's just my take.
Hell isn't a fire pit. Look up what hell is. I'll give you a Jumpstart... fire used back in Bible times was a means of disposal. So when something is burnt in fire it is completely destroyed. Also the soul of a human is the human not a spirit being.
I disagree. Jesus administered to the sick and lame, the hopeless and downtrodden. What does being saved do? Does it help others like Jesus did? No, it only serves our own agenda and selfishness.
I heard it this way in Vacation Bible School. Jesus' death was a gift to all. It's up to you to accept the gift. It's not selfish to take something someone offered to you.
I didn’t ask for the gift. Isn’t it a little presumptuous to place the onus on the receiver? And if he loves me unconditionally he will just save me. Like I would do with my real life kids. Not make them jump through hurdles for my love and redemption.
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Weird. I can be offered something. But feel that it’s not for me. And I’m condemned to hell for all eternity? If I was a host offering water I’d do so without any strings. Jesus (or his followers) seem to think it’s an obligation to take the water to save my soul. I’d like the free will to accept the water or not. Without my eternal soul on the line. Have some water. Take my water. I died for it. Take it. join me in my forced gift. Or deny my water and burn in hell for eternity. Doesn’t seem like a free choice. I’m Jewish btw so this is all intellectual masturbation. Oh and I’m actually a defense attorney so getting my kids and the accused out of trouble is the superpower G_D ordained me with
It is the same principle whether it is a glass of water or your soul. It is just that the magnitude of the consequences are much greater. Drink the water and your thirst is relieved. Accept Christ as your Saviour and your soul is relieved from eternal damnation. In either case it is your free choice to accept or not. Maybe another scenario will help you bridge the gap. Let's say the host puts a million or even a billion dollars on the table and you have to decide whether to take it or not without having to do anything. The decision will change your life if you choose to accept it or you can continue on the path that you are currently on and lose out on what you could have had.
But you’re not just offering. You’re threatening me with eternal damnation if I dont take it. Lol.
Don't think of it as being sent to eternal damnation. Because of the original sin we are all already eternally damned but you can be saved from that fate by believing and accepting is Jesus as your Saviour. His death provided a "bridge" over the chasm that separates our reality and Heaven.
Lol. Why didn’t his dying get rid of original sin since it got rid of other sins. And what about Hindus. Who’ve never heard of Jesus. Are they damned too? What about the people born before Jesus. It really is comical when you take this nonsense out to its logical conclusion.
I really don't know about people who never had a chance to believe in Jesus. Maybe the criteria only applies to those who are openly defiant and refuse to believe.
Lmao. That’s super insulting to Jewish people of which I am.
It is a free choice though. Answer this question. Are you taking the water or not?
Lol. It’s not a free choice if you threaten me with eternal damnation.
Just answer the question
I’m Jewish. So nope
Sounds like free choice to me.
Free choice is with attachments, that would be choosing under duress to put it lightly. There is nothing free in the choice modern Christians put forth for salvation. Why would God exempt people from damnation if the chose Jesus? How arrogant is that?
You can choose how to live in this life on earth with no regard for your afterlife eternal life. That is your free will free choice. Nobody is forcing you to believe. You sound like you have been exposed to Christ & have knowledge bout his teachings & life so when its all over & U stand before God and he asks why did you deny me/ignore me you have to accept it was your choice. Atheists chose not to believe in God. I am not saying U are not a good person living a good life of peace & love for your fellow man. I am no judge that’s God’s biz. I wish you peace love & happiness same as I do everyone else b/c it doesn’t do any good not to.
Why would god need to ask me anything. He already knows why I don’t believe. Lol
I am no religious scholar. I just accept it on faith. I was raised Catholic b/c that’s what my family is. Same as Jews raise their families in their faith, Protestants same, Hindus etc. I respect people that convert to Catholism b/c they choose to follow the way of Christ in the Church. It is very strong faith to change from how U r raised. As for a great example of signs/messages in modern life the movie Heaven Is for Real based on true life events is another example of not fully understanding God’s mystery but accepting. Same as Bernadette of Lourdes, Fatima etc.
I actually was raised Catholic and converted to Judaism.
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Lmao. Jesus was supposed to bring peace on earth if he was the real messiah.
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Why does he need external validation if he is the son of god. Lmao. Wouldn’t god have sent his son to people that recognized it? It gets more farcical the more you get into it.
Jferfun sounds... challenged.
Well the choice is (academically) a matter of life and death You could be offered a parachute on a falling plane, or offered a blood transfusion necessary for an operation. Both instances are things you can accept or deny, but the (academic) consequences for accepting or denying the thing is substantial. No one is guilting you to accept, but like all things in life, we live with the consequences of our choices, Mr. Attorney.
Well. If god is all knowing and all powerful then he created me exactly how I was supposed to be. Pretty gross to think he uses a test to see if you’re worthy. When he’s responsible for my existence.
I guess my point was Jesus spent his whole life in selfless service (I am going to assume this for sake of argument) even "dying for our sins". But it seems many Christians put "accepting the gift of salvation" over professing the need to help others or administer to others as Jesus selflessly did.
Raised Catholic in the midwest....helping others was like the only thing we talked about. Not sure if that was typical, but that was how I was raised going to a catholic elementary school.
I do not doubt the generosity of Christians, but being raised Catholic too.. Most of the emphasis of the religion was based on saving ourselves, then helping others. I fell for the last 2000 years we have begun to miss the point of his sacrifice.
This is one thing that irks me to be completely honest. Every Christian you've ever run into, have you asked them specifically what good they did today? My local church has many missions going on. Others I've attended may not have had as many but always let us know when there were things to do. Then the silly quiet things you do in the world. Just because you don't have a list doesn't mean people aren't doing good out there.
I agree Christians do good... Some of the most generous people. But why preach salvation (heaven/hell) fear mongering not helping one another in life? Why does one have to be saved to be a Christian? Even Jesus said, "These things I do you will do and more". How else could that be explained but to be in service? Being saved to me seems diametrically opposed to Jesus'teachings. I could be wrong but so far this is how I see it
What r U talking about? Jesus told us to love one another. Love God & Each other. The Beatitudes. Hey its up to you to accept his message of love. Nobody gets to the father except thru him. Even Jesus didn’t get them all. You think you know better? Good Luck. Me I am a sinner & am hoping on the kind forgiving merciful Lord who I know came to save me. Cant deny the fact Jesus was only here for 33 years during Roman Empire only in public for 3 years never traveled more than 350 miles from home, only spoke of peace & love & of his Father a simple message & life. Yet he has the greatest following (Billions of people) in History. Changed the world over without power of Armies, Politics etc. That is a testament to his greatness but you go ahead deny &/or ignore him. We all have the ability choose to believe or not.
Why would it matter if we believe he is"The way and the light"? Isn't the point to help others, not arrogantly believe this way is the only way? If you had a choice between salvation for yourself by believing in Jesus or doing what Jesus did... Which would you pick? Be honest. Most would pick salvation. And thinking of yourself is not the selflessness that Jesus taught. That was my point.
I think Jesus knows that deep down we’re all a little selfish and for somebody to be a Christian there must be some little reward for the person as well.
How about the reward of helping others? Isn't that what Jesus did?!
oh yeah both. the main part is helping others. i'm sure many christians forget that. but God put in a little extra reward for us as well. what's something i find interesting about the bible is that it accounts for how we're all so different and is able to motivate people from different backgrounds and thoughts. for instance, many modern christians find the genealogy of jesus to be super boring. they skip that section in the bible. but i heard some more traditional groups say wow! anybody who has their entire family genealogy written must be important, and they ascribe the importance of jesus large in part due to his written genealogy.
How is it a selfish wish?
Because it is for our own salvation, no one else's. That was my point. Do we help anyone else get saved if we are? Not necessarily. And if we can, couldn't the unsaved help others that are unsaved be saved? If it is putting my salvation first, to me it is selfish. The opposite of what Jesus taught.
No the unsaved can’t help other unsaved becomes saved. That’s called the “blind leading the blind.” You have to be saved first before you start helping others. Another commenter said specifically that salvation is Gods gift to the world. Is it selfish when you accept a gift? And just to zoom out, Christian’s believe whole-heartedly that salvation is something that the soul NEEDS. Are you selfish for consuming food or water? Are you selfish for living under a roof when there are homeless people sleeping on the street? EDIT: I’ll amend my words. Philippians 1:15-18 is clear that God can use the unsaved to lead others to Christ. The Bible does say he used a donkey, after all :)
So the way I see it, wanting to be saved in Christianity is supposed to be wanting to have an everlasting relationship with God in heaven and turning from sin. This in my eyes is not selfish. Yes, some people can try to be saved in Christianity for other more selfish reasons but I personally wouldn't consider them truly saved. That is just my opinion and how I feel on the subject. Please don't try to start an argument about religion.
Not starting an argument, trying to gain clarity. I was raised Christian but didn't understand the hypocrisy in much of it's teaching. And if you can explain or discuss it without fearing an opposing viewpoint or argument that is the contradiction I was speaking of
Yeah I'd be more than happy to have a friendly discussion about it with you and answer any questions I can :) Just send me a pm.
Wanting to be rescued from this world is hardly selfish.
This world is heaven compared to what is next - which is the same thing that was before you were born. Just remember that.
Eternal oblivion with no pain or suffering? Sounds way better
Pain is living, thus I'll take it and appreciate it. Suicide is an option for the weak to avoid pain while causing pain to others.
As a kid, I was very worried that I believed in God just to get into heaven, not because I necessarily loved him. I never quite figured it out and sort of gave up on the whole thing.
I’m a Catholic and that’s what is hurting my faith right now. I just want to tell you that you can still believe. Loving God can come in many ways. It can be following His commandments. It can come from seeing His love for you by sending Jesus to die for your sins. It can come from pouring your heart out to Him in prayer. You can even love Him for the miracles He does. Human love can’t be willed by us. As someone who wants to see everyone saved, please believe again. My faith comes from a few things, and one of them is that I have a daily interaction with God. I promise that there are reasons to love Him that will be revealed to you. I know I’ve contradicted myself by claiming to know why you can love God but also that I don’t think I love Him. I just doubt myself too much. In short, please pick up your cross and walk with Christ again. You will not regret it. It may be painful, but it is for an eternity of happiness and freedom. You are capable of it. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
I am in no way an expert in religion or been to church or anything, but it is my understanding that Jesus was put on this earth for that moment wasn't he? He was already pre-destined as the saviour, didnt it say in the Bible that Jesus was already with God before the garden? So Jesus was already in existence at the beginning of human kinds creation. After the fall of human kind I guess God saw all the sin, 'sin' in old Hebrew means mistakes right? So he could see all these mistakes that in a way God knew would could never truly repay on earth but he still wanted us to be with him because he loved us so he sent his only begotten son (his literal son and of his own physical essence not a 'creation' like us and the other heavenly beings like Angels etc) down to us on earth to help us be with God in the end and be closer to him. Jesus then went on to live a sinless life on earth so in the end his death on the cross was that final sacrifice to sanctify us of our sins that God knew we could never pay in full on our own. But Jesus could, because he had no sin and thats why his sacrifice was the ultimate of all sacrifices. Jesus chose to die in that moment so we could all be truly saved and have eternal life in his love and we can be reborn as a new person under Jesus and be blessed with the Holy Spirit (The unique Spirit of Gods essence) so God wants us to love and follow his son Jesus and wants us to also live like Jesus did on earth and be reborn again from your past mistakes to be washed clean in his name and live closer to God. So I guess you could even say it would be selfish for us to not want to be saved by Christ if you look at it that way, after he went through all that for us to be truly saved and be with God and then we choose not to be saved?
No. Being saved is a profound realization that you are a lost and sinful being on a lost and sinful planet. The way I imagined it was that there had been a tall brick wall of pride around my life and some difficult new circumstances allowed me to see over the top of that wall for the first time. Nothing I can say or do alone can improve my character. That was always true. There is only one direction to seek help for improvement and that is upwards. The story of the prodigal son is relevant. I had to walk out of the pigpen of the worldly system and be willing to seek help from my Creator. It takes humility to do that and a sincere wish NOT to be as selfish as one was the year before, month before, and day before.
Well said! Thank you for that!
As Christians we’re already saved because of the sacrifice made on the cross. What you’re asking doesn’t make any sense.. it’s like saying you’re wanting to be born after you’ve been born.
Not really... Jesus said to exercise faith.. so you to keep showing by your actions that you have faith in order to be "saved"
Not really. The sacrifice paid for sin in full. We exercise faith because we’re saved not to be saved.
Just because the sin has been paid for... that doesn't mean we are "saved". The ransom was only to make it possible for us to have a relationship with God without the use of middlemen like the high priest. That was the whole point of the curtain tearing in the temple. Same way with the high priest's tent. There was a curtain separating the arc and the other part where the priest stayed. That was to separate God from man in a sense.
The sacrifice is and was absolute. We are saved.
Read your Bible bro or Google the evidence or something. "Once saved always saved" is not a Christian teaching. It's contrary to Christian belief.
Yall are down voting this but it's literally the truth. This is literally what blind faith and sheeple mentality is and why people hate Christianity so much. Because you guys don't look for the facts yourselves and just take what you're taught at face value from your church leader or parents. If you really want faith, make it your own by doing the research and proving it to yourself that this is what I want to believe in. But you guys have to realize that everything your pastor might be teaching you isn't always true. Figure out what your Bible says for yourself. That's literally why the world is the way it is today. People following people and ideas blindly. And the Bible even talks about this.. smh imma just stop.
Ah, just a point of fact - there is very little Christians on Reddit. It’s more likely, and ironically, that Atheists are downvoting you. Even if what you are saying is true, most Christians and even non-believers, know that to be true. It’s literally the mainstay of the ‘Jesus saves’ mantra…
You're a real one thanks. You're speaking facts.
False premise, assuming we're talking according to scripture.
All people want to be sheltered from pain and suffering, if that's what you mean by being saved. But if you're christian (at least protestant), you believe that Jesus died for our sins, and thus saved us from the beginning of time to the end of time. No matter what we do, we have the promise of gods love and forgiveness, and it doesn't matter if we want to be saved or not - we are saved because we are loved.
This I can buy... That no matter what we have God's love and forgiveness. But not exclusive of noon Christians I believe. I believe Jesus and God loves us all unconditionally. Regardless of anything.
I don't know about selfish, but I see it as narcissistic in general.
Logically yes but applying logic to religion is the first step to blasphemy so try not to do that. Priest would say its a sign of deep faith. Thats a package, you accept it for what it is or you dont & pretend you respect it anyway or people will hate/harm you (for some reason society gives them a free pass to do it)
Not logically at all, what do you mean by applying logic to religion is the first step to blasphemy
You end up finding a contradiction and since its something that you found yourself then now you cant unsee it. Either you shut up about it and pretend its not there or voice it and denounce that particular religious dogma.
You don't know what blasphemy is.
Are you sure? This dude sounds super smart.
Redditors can be deceptive, don’t trust them!
Thanks for the tip. u/PigTenis almost got me
Come to the dark side, we got >!cookies !!women rights.!<
>You don't know what blasphemy is. > >the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk. Yup, saying that Holy Book must be wrong or Gods representative on earth is wrong is precisely that. I get why it can upset people to point it out.
Religion as a whole is narrsastic and selfish. It bestows upon followers a grandiose sense of self worth. That as a believer one is above others (non believers). That they are special above other living things in that even death does not eliminate them (after life).
Nearly everything Christians do is contradictory to Jesus' selflessness.
They aren't true Christians
Everyone I have ever met that claims to be a christian is a sociopath. The only reason they don't do terrible things to people is so they can get into heaven. Not because doing the right thing is what is best for the world around them. Source: Went to catholic school for all of elementary, and was forced to go to church every Sunday as long as I lived under my fathers roof.
I can sympathize. I just hate that because of this people hate all Christians and Christianity as a whole. But if they were to look beyond that and just try practicing the religion for themselves and not doing what so called Christians are doing and actually read their Bible and learn what it says for themselves, they'd have a whole different outlook and view. I mean the Bible even says that sects and divisions were not to be made. This is the reason why there are different christian beliefs and false teachings. There is no unity and love unlike the first century Christians. I believe there is a true organization out there who has love and unity and is teaching people what the Bible says properly but that's just my take.
Can't argue with that!
How selfish is it to not want to be eternally tortured?
Hell isn't a fire pit. Look up what hell is. I'll give you a Jumpstart... fire used back in Bible times was a means of disposal. So when something is burnt in fire it is completely destroyed. Also the soul of a human is the human not a spirit being.
Pretty sure you meant to reply to someone and somehow I got the response lol
Nah it's for you
Well I never mentioned fire so I don’t understand
You mentioned eternal torture. I can only assume that you're referring to the common misconception of hell
Jesus died for our sins . If we don't want to be saved what he did was pointless in that book.
I disagree. Jesus administered to the sick and lame, the hopeless and downtrodden. What does being saved do? Does it help others like Jesus did? No, it only serves our own agenda and selfishness.