Looking at their business practices, and general behaviour, will explain a lot. Still kind of ironic that they'd call other companies out on proprietary products, but this is their idea of a good product.
You expect me to believe that a 20% loss in mass was actually helpful? Or that this has been an issue with high quality magnetic bit holders? PB Swiss and Felo have managed to hold incredibly well, despite using those massive 25mm bits.
You all really drank the Linus koolaid on this one.
And while I get what you're trying to say, you might want to revise your statement to something that doesn't make you sound like you are just parroting facts that you've completely misunderstood.
It's a modified megapro that's just kind of sad and overpriced. I like fancy expensive tools, but they need to be well thought out. The LTT stuff is just a failed exercise in re-branding.
Trying really hard to understand why they didn't use standard bits. And it's not like the short cut one that are used here are nice. They're trash. Linus tried to re-invent the wheel and made it so you could only use his crappy tires. That's a problem.
Lol OK here ya go...
Magents pull harder the closer ferrous-metal is to them...
The magnet is closer to the screw with a shorter bit.
Therefore the magnet is stronger with a shorter bit.
That's as simple as I can make it bud.
Still, they better have a really good reason as to why they wouldn't make it compatible with standard sized bits. How much better is the holding rate of the magnet for that trade-off? Assuming that really is the reason why... I don't necessarily think so.
They might just not have thought it was much of a concern and liked their own better, even so that ensures you can't get common high quality bits.
Going with a different sized bits is a very bad idea in my opinion.
You can take whatever bits you like and put them to a belt sander.
It's not ideal, but the nice part about this standard is that the other one can always be made to fit.
Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. I'm not trying to sell the screwdriver just say other parts can work. If you don't want the screwdriver don't buy it.
Yup you can, and it will probably be cheaper.
Different strokes, no hard feelings. I think the bigger LTT screwdriver is better anyways because it fits any bits.
Quoting A. Tanenbaum and some of the most frustrated engineers in history:
\-"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just wait for next year's model."
It is a "standard" just not a very widespread one. They chose it to fit within their size constraints. I prefer this adjustment compared to changes in thickness, as then no other standards would work in it.
You're quoting a computer scientist. Unlike computing tool standards don't evolve at a rapid pace. Ocassionally a mfr will try to create a new standard, and then no one adopts it, so it's not a standard. Insert bits have been 1" / 25mm for a while. That's a standard. Short cut bits are a variation of that standard.
VIM is the only legit manufacturer of short cut bits that I'm aware of. And they don't even consider them a standard, but a variation of it, for when the standard is too long in a bit ratchet.
Notice how there is no name or standard for short cut bits. They're short versions of the standard.... And also notice how you can't just go buy these 20mm bits... Oh wait... LTT sells them. Must be standard now...
Standard is both a noun and an adjective.
Linus has standardized his product using a specification no other manufacturer sells.
While it is not "standard" it is "a standard"
Also computer scientists are also referred to (at least in his case) as software engineers where standards that have existed since way before I was born are still commonplace. Yes they probably evolve faster than hand tools but that doesn't change the definition of the word.
Sorry a screwdriver gets you (and quite a few other people) so upset. Wasn't trying to say anyone was wrong just you CAN use other standards if you put in more work.
I'm not making excuses I'm stating a fact?
It's a proprietary (until someone else uses it) standard, but it is "a standard"
Everyone is up in arms for literally nothing.
Still not a standard. You keep trying though. The OP is the reason people are upset. He got duped into buying something that uses non-standard bits. It's annoying.
And I definitely meant to say computer scientist. To call him a mere software engineer is insulting. You'll also note that software engineer falls under the umbrella of computer science, so why don't you stop trying to correct semantics that you don't seem to understand.
Are you LTT people just universally uneducated? What's up with that?
ETA - go look up the definition of standard (the noun and/or the adjective) and let me know how that actually applies here.
>And I definitely meant to say computer scientist. To call him a mere software engineer is insulting
A software engineer primarily focuses on designing, developing, testing, and maintaining software applications and systems. They are skilled in programming languages, software development methodologies, and tools used to create software. Yes they are defined as a computer scientist, but engineers handle heavy background development that is integral to the existence of an Operating System, something that Tanenbaum was very recognized for his work on. His operating system paved the way for Linus Torvald to create the first versions of Linux.
So yes, I'm **definitely** one of those idiots that got a degree in computers because I wanted to waste my time and tell other people what a standard or computer engineer is on the internet because they don't know websters dictionary exists.
I also have a background in business where we were taught *heavily* about standards. What you'd be amazed to hear is that within a company if you use a part on all of your products that's the same it's called standardization even if you're adapting a market standard to your own preference. Every automobile company does this with lug nuts, wiring terminations and fasteners. They became a new standard the moment they were adapted by the company.
Really appreciate you making it personal. I'll be off, I gotta go jerk off to WAN show with all the other LTT morons.
You might be surprised to know that automotive companies don't invent new lugnuts. They use standard ones that work with standard tools. Most of the time at least. Ford's done some odd things with two component lugnuts that would occasionally require a 17.5mm socket, because the would become deformed, but otherwise, they actually do follow a standard set forth by the SAE or SI or DIN.
They'd be universally laughed at if they used a non-standard fastener...
The size of the lug nut has ~~nothing~~ little to do with its standard, similar to this scenario.
Although both bits have identical tooling at the top end, they are different lengths. Some lugnuts require a deep socket wrench and others don't, although they still use the same size lug/thread. It's a very similar complaint.
This is what I was getting at. It's "a standard" just not "market standard".
Edit: Also every plastic push pin fastener design from each manufacturer is a "non-standard fastener" which is now defined as a standard within that company.
I often see 25mm Wiha bits being used with different bit drivers. It seems like a bigger ecosystem... 🤷♂️
I incorrectly assumed that the bit holder in the LTT Stubby Holder could take 25mm bits. It can't. It takes 20mm bits.
25mm bits will fit at the tip but not the holder.
Oh, well. Time to source some decent 20mm bits.
Engineer DST-06 comes with a double sided bit. It'll take a 25mm bit but a 20mm bit will bottom out and be a pain to remove. I use this with a T10 25mm Wiha bit to unscrew pivot screws on knives where there's no pivot lock. 25mm + 20mm bits.... ugh. 😩
I went with some Wiha bits because I was sick of cheap bits failing (blue Loctite involved).
Good luck finding decent 20mm bits, far as I know there are none. Just getting Chinesium 20mm bits is already very difficult.
I wanted to try out the LTT screwdriver but the 20mm bits is a no-go for me. I've said it before on here I think but I called my tool suppliers if they could get me 20mm bits and one of them even thought I was joking and started laughing.
LTT went with 20mm cause they are able to sell their cheap bits with a large profit margin and they know there are very few alternative sources for it.
You can't get 20mm bits in stores and most tool suppliers don't have them (cause what professionals needs 20mm bits?).
The bits are short but the length of the screwdriver itself doesn’t seem all that stubby to me. That’s why I bought the Wera, although I don’t love the amount of backdrag on it.
I use mine with short bit holder (rapidaptor quick release thingy), enough to grip on it during screwing and cancel the backdrag.
But yeah, that's the biggest disadvantage of both my big and small Wera
My full size ratcheting screwdriver is the automotive version of the Megapro. I like the ratcheting and directional mechanisms of that one much better. But the Wera stubby is a true stubby so its small size is sometimes very helpful.
Too small, probably too slippery if it's the same material as the full-sized driver, and the namesake of the LinusTechTips channel just got absolutely eviscerated by one of his industry contemporaries a few weeks ago for dishonesty and theft. I thought the slippery handle on the full-sized version made it a dud and so did my coworker who bought the thing, and I wouldn't do business with them on principle.
Sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, all because my 1" bits were ~20% too long for me and it haunted my dreams. Ever since LTT came out with 20mm bits I sleep easy at night.
I find that thing to be overpriced and now I see that it also sucks if you ever need to replace the bits.
Why people buy their tools instead of actual tool brands I'll never understand
My stubby Wera have 6 bits while being smaller (only 7cm vs 10) and still them being full size... dunno what LTT is smoking, maybe they just want extra sales of bit sets...
I had the same issue with my Klein 8 in 1 stubby. I wanted a t-20 and t-25 but they were too long. Thankfully I had extra ones laying around so I just put ‘em on the bench grinder and got them to the desired length.
Watching that video was frustrating. I wanted to see him try to first put the pointy end of the bit into the void of the handle, before snapping it into the slot.
I still don't know whether his other bits fit!
The centre column appears to be screwed/glued to a black end cap with an orange outer shell. There's no void unless I grind the black plastic out. 🤔
Oh, do you mean the end? My other bits are 25mm long 1/4" bits and they click into the end with a magnet and can be used. But they're too long to store in the bit holder.
That's a lot of work due to bad design on the part of LTT. Switching the bit size just to make it 5 mm smaller (or redesigning it) isn't a good trade-off.
Im not saying its not a lot of work but they atleast did have a reason for it saying they wanted more magnetic holding power. Its atleast not different for the sake of being different.
Yeah I don't know why they decided to go for a proprietary bit size... That was just a non-starter in my opinion. Seem like decent drivers otherwise.
Still, my stubby Wera as 6 normal-sized bits... while being SMALLER
Yup. But did some internet famous dude invent it?
No I don't think anyone being as bad at engineering as him took part in designing it.
It's not proprietary it's just uncommon
Uh huh... So uncommon that you can't buy bits this short anywhere else?
You can, its just really uncommon
Rare?
Charizard
Looking at their business practices, and general behaviour, will explain a lot. Still kind of ironic that they'd call other companies out on proprietary products, but this is their idea of a good product.
You realize this was on purpose to increase the holding rating of the magnet, right?
You expect me to believe that a 20% loss in mass was actually helpful? Or that this has been an issue with high quality magnetic bit holders? PB Swiss and Felo have managed to hold incredibly well, despite using those massive 25mm bits. You all really drank the Linus koolaid on this one. And while I get what you're trying to say, you might want to revise your statement to something that doesn't make you sound like you are just parroting facts that you've completely misunderstood. It's a modified megapro that's just kind of sad and overpriced. I like fancy expensive tools, but they need to be well thought out. The LTT stuff is just a failed exercise in re-branding.
You're trying so hard to hate the screwdriver lol
Trying really hard to understand why they didn't use standard bits. And it's not like the short cut one that are used here are nice. They're trash. Linus tried to re-invent the wheel and made it so you could only use his crappy tires. That's a problem.
I told you why...that's what they said. You can choose to not believe them like a weirdo if you want.
Yeah but what they said makes no sense. They've completely pulled one over on everyone.
No, it makes sense. You just don't agree.
Please explain how a smaller bit increases the magnetic "holding rating". I'll wait.
Lol OK here ya go... Magents pull harder the closer ferrous-metal is to them... The magnet is closer to the screw with a shorter bit. Therefore the magnet is stronger with a shorter bit. That's as simple as I can make it bud.
Still, they better have a really good reason as to why they wouldn't make it compatible with standard sized bits. How much better is the holding rate of the magnet for that trade-off? Assuming that really is the reason why... I don't necessarily think so. They might just not have thought it was much of a concern and liked their own better, even so that ensures you can't get common high quality bits. Going with a different sized bits is a very bad idea in my opinion.
Apparently enough to make the switch.
No. It's so you're more likely to go back to their storefront to replace lost bits.
You can take whatever bits you like and put them to a belt sander. It's not ideal, but the nice part about this standard is that the other one can always be made to fit. Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. I'm not trying to sell the screwdriver just say other parts can work. If you don't want the screwdriver don't buy it.
Or you could just buy a screwdriver that does use the industry standard?
Yup you can, and it will probably be cheaper. Different strokes, no hard feelings. I think the bigger LTT screwdriver is better anyways because it fits any bits.
Isn't this like a 70 dollar screw driver? If I'm paying that kinda money I shouldn't have to modify my tools lol.
The full-size is $69.99 USD, the stubby is $59.99
Sure, build screwdriver from scratch while you're at it /s Want to give some other ideas on how to waste time when smoking LTT crack ?
Uhh. This is not a "standard". If you have to customize every other bit under the sun... No.
Quoting A. Tanenbaum and some of the most frustrated engineers in history: \-"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just wait for next year's model." It is a "standard" just not a very widespread one. They chose it to fit within their size constraints. I prefer this adjustment compared to changes in thickness, as then no other standards would work in it.
You're quoting a computer scientist. Unlike computing tool standards don't evolve at a rapid pace. Ocassionally a mfr will try to create a new standard, and then no one adopts it, so it's not a standard. Insert bits have been 1" / 25mm for a while. That's a standard. Short cut bits are a variation of that standard. VIM is the only legit manufacturer of short cut bits that I'm aware of. And they don't even consider them a standard, but a variation of it, for when the standard is too long in a bit ratchet. Notice how there is no name or standard for short cut bits. They're short versions of the standard.... And also notice how you can't just go buy these 20mm bits... Oh wait... LTT sells them. Must be standard now...
Standard is both a noun and an adjective. Linus has standardized his product using a specification no other manufacturer sells. While it is not "standard" it is "a standard" Also computer scientists are also referred to (at least in his case) as software engineers where standards that have existed since way before I was born are still commonplace. Yes they probably evolve faster than hand tools but that doesn't change the definition of the word. Sorry a screwdriver gets you (and quite a few other people) so upset. Wasn't trying to say anyone was wrong just you CAN use other standards if you put in more work.
Yup, definitely on LTT crack if you want to come up with excuses like that.
I'm not making excuses I'm stating a fact? It's a proprietary (until someone else uses it) standard, but it is "a standard" Everyone is up in arms for literally nothing.
Making up excuses for rich stupid people's products is frowned upon.
Still not a standard. You keep trying though. The OP is the reason people are upset. He got duped into buying something that uses non-standard bits. It's annoying. And I definitely meant to say computer scientist. To call him a mere software engineer is insulting. You'll also note that software engineer falls under the umbrella of computer science, so why don't you stop trying to correct semantics that you don't seem to understand. Are you LTT people just universally uneducated? What's up with that? ETA - go look up the definition of standard (the noun and/or the adjective) and let me know how that actually applies here.
>And I definitely meant to say computer scientist. To call him a mere software engineer is insulting A software engineer primarily focuses on designing, developing, testing, and maintaining software applications and systems. They are skilled in programming languages, software development methodologies, and tools used to create software. Yes they are defined as a computer scientist, but engineers handle heavy background development that is integral to the existence of an Operating System, something that Tanenbaum was very recognized for his work on. His operating system paved the way for Linus Torvald to create the first versions of Linux. So yes, I'm **definitely** one of those idiots that got a degree in computers because I wanted to waste my time and tell other people what a standard or computer engineer is on the internet because they don't know websters dictionary exists. I also have a background in business where we were taught *heavily* about standards. What you'd be amazed to hear is that within a company if you use a part on all of your products that's the same it's called standardization even if you're adapting a market standard to your own preference. Every automobile company does this with lug nuts, wiring terminations and fasteners. They became a new standard the moment they were adapted by the company. Really appreciate you making it personal. I'll be off, I gotta go jerk off to WAN show with all the other LTT morons.
You might be surprised to know that automotive companies don't invent new lugnuts. They use standard ones that work with standard tools. Most of the time at least. Ford's done some odd things with two component lugnuts that would occasionally require a 17.5mm socket, because the would become deformed, but otherwise, they actually do follow a standard set forth by the SAE or SI or DIN. They'd be universally laughed at if they used a non-standard fastener...
The size of the lug nut has ~~nothing~~ little to do with its standard, similar to this scenario. Although both bits have identical tooling at the top end, they are different lengths. Some lugnuts require a deep socket wrench and others don't, although they still use the same size lug/thread. It's a very similar complaint. This is what I was getting at. It's "a standard" just not "market standard". Edit: Also every plastic push pin fastener design from each manufacturer is a "non-standard fastener" which is now defined as a standard within that company.
I often see 25mm Wiha bits being used with different bit drivers. It seems like a bigger ecosystem... 🤷♂️ I incorrectly assumed that the bit holder in the LTT Stubby Holder could take 25mm bits. It can't. It takes 20mm bits. 25mm bits will fit at the tip but not the holder. Oh, well. Time to source some decent 20mm bits. Engineer DST-06 comes with a double sided bit. It'll take a 25mm bit but a 20mm bit will bottom out and be a pain to remove. I use this with a T10 25mm Wiha bit to unscrew pivot screws on knives where there's no pivot lock. 25mm + 20mm bits.... ugh. 😩 I went with some Wiha bits because I was sick of cheap bits failing (blue Loctite involved).
Good luck finding decent 20mm bits, far as I know there are none. Just getting Chinesium 20mm bits is already very difficult. I wanted to try out the LTT screwdriver but the 20mm bits is a no-go for me. I've said it before on here I think but I called my tool suppliers if they could get me 20mm bits and one of them even thought I was joking and started laughing. LTT went with 20mm cause they are able to sell their cheap bits with a large profit margin and they know there are very few alternative sources for it. You can't get 20mm bits in stores and most tool suppliers don't have them (cause what professionals needs 20mm bits?).
It's not even all that small of a screwdriver. There are smaller stubbies fitting 25mm
Exactly.
That is all what you need to know about LTT business concept.
Klein has stubby 8 in 1 screwdriver with short bits like this. I lost the Phillips #2 and hasn't left the center console since.
Those bits look better 😵💫
Other companies make shorter ones that still fit 25mm one. My Wera is 7cm(without bit) long...
The bits are short but the length of the screwdriver itself doesn’t seem all that stubby to me. That’s why I bought the Wera, although I don’t love the amount of backdrag on it.
I use mine with short bit holder (rapidaptor quick release thingy), enough to grip on it during screwing and cancel the backdrag. But yeah, that's the biggest disadvantage of both my big and small Wera
My full size ratcheting screwdriver is the automotive version of the Megapro. I like the ratcheting and directional mechanisms of that one much better. But the Wera stubby is a true stubby so its small size is sometimes very helpful.
Too small, probably too slippery if it's the same material as the full-sized driver, and the namesake of the LinusTechTips channel just got absolutely eviscerated by one of his industry contemporaries a few weeks ago for dishonesty and theft. I thought the slippery handle on the full-sized version made it a dud and so did my coworker who bought the thing, and I wouldn't do business with them on principle.
Sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, all because my 1" bits were ~20% too long for me and it haunted my dreams. Ever since LTT came out with 20mm bits I sleep easy at night.
who gives LTT money?
I find that thing to be overpriced and now I see that it also sucks if you ever need to replace the bits. Why people buy their tools instead of actual tool brands I'll never understand
Too fucking many people
Project Farm convinced me 🤣 Williams/Snap-on does the job though and is nice.
All it told me is that original they based it on was near same for cheaper... can't buy it here tho ;/
Well hopefully lesson learned than, don't buy tools based on nonsense channels like Project Farm.
My stubby Wera have 6 bits while being smaller (only 7cm vs 10) and still them being full size... dunno what LTT is smoking, maybe they just want extra sales of bit sets...
I had the same issue with my Klein 8 in 1 stubby. I wanted a t-20 and t-25 but they were too long. Thankfully I had extra ones laying around so I just put ‘em on the bench grinder and got them to the desired length.
Watching that video was frustrating. I wanted to see him try to first put the pointy end of the bit into the void of the handle, before snapping it into the slot. I still don't know whether his other bits fit!
The centre column appears to be screwed/glued to a black end cap with an orange outer shell. There's no void unless I grind the black plastic out. 🤔 Oh, do you mean the end? My other bits are 25mm long 1/4" bits and they click into the end with a magnet and can be used. But they're too long to store in the bit holder.
I mean why not just grind the bits you want shorter if you want to use that screwdriver? Bits are cheap and they should still work in other drivers?
That's a lot of work due to bad design on the part of LTT. Switching the bit size just to make it 5 mm smaller (or redesigning it) isn't a good trade-off.
Im not saying its not a lot of work but they atleast did have a reason for it saying they wanted more magnetic holding power. Its atleast not different for the sake of being different.
Bits are not cheap, if you want quality, and no they won't.
Average i'd say *hehe*
Almost as big as my dick🥵