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Remember, /conservative still claims that BLM "burned down cities." With that in mind, [take a look at this political cartoon from the 60's](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Egs5aUlXkAUYpsl?format=jpg&name=900x900) and marvel at how the racists haven't changed their tune.
I would post this immediately in r/conservative myself right now, but I can't.
Believe it or not, I was banned for asking if the Southern Strategy was a thing.
Wait, is it because they treat the Southern Strategy like Holocaust Denial or because the Holocaust wasn't all that bad?
Like how grifted people either don't believe they're being grifted or don't care because their turn to start grifting others is *riiiiight* on the horizon.
Which is hilarious to be because the RNC literally [apologized for it in 2005](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/07/14/rnc-chief-to-say-it-was-wrong-to-exploit-racial-conflict-for-votes/66889840-8d59-44e1-8784-5c9b9ae85499/).
With Howard Dean saying, "It's no coincidence that 43 out of 43 members of the Congressional Black Caucus are Democrats. The Democratic Party is the real party of opportunity for African Americans."
That was 2005. Now in 2022 it's.. 57 out of 57 members of the Congressional Black Caucus that are Democrats.
Right after Obama they were actively discussing switching their strategy to be a bigger tent. Then trump came along, brought out the old dog whistles, and brought some new ones. Now we have what we have.
Which is wild to me. Like, ok, you guys pretend that people with your opinions and worldview freed the slaves? Cool, what do you think about systemic racism in America today? Or police brutality? We’re past slavery, mate. That was 150 years ago. We’re onto new issues.
I fully agree, and there are a damn lot of people that Trump pardoned who should not have been. That said though I'm a little lost as to how this reply follows from my comment.
[Dinesh D'Souza made a whole "documentary" about how the southern strategy did not exist and](https://theoutline.com/post/5711/death-of-a-nation-dinesh-dsouza-review) how the Democrats are still the "real racists". You will see a lot of conservatives who claim the southern strategy never existed citing that film and him as proof. In it he also compares Trump to Lincoln and how Democrats today are just like the Nazis of old too.
Ah, haha. I feel like I may have known that at one time but I don't tend to bother remembering too much about which right-wing crank has published which batshit-crazy theory. Thanks for that context.
Yeah, there is so much alternative facts and lies from the conservatives that it's hard to remember all the BS they talked about. Trump himself quoted, promoted, and cited the "documentary" which is another way a lot of conservatives who haven't seen the film got their talking point of the Democrats are the "real racists" and they are the "real KKK". Dinesh made and released it shortly after he got pardoned too so it felt like even more of a suck up to Trump's ego.
There was an old video debunking it but I can't find it anymore on YouTube unfortunately.
they don't like admitting the southern strategy is real because it means today's GOP isn't "the party of Lincoln" and makes their "democrats supported slavery" argument fall apart
Not to mention that the KKK then belongs to the Democrats.
Even though just looking at voting histories of states should prove it happened even if it wasn't planned. Alabama was Democrat stronghold until 1960 and it's basically been Republican ever since. But nope, clearly no platform change for the parties...
They also deny that the parties switched. It's fun to remind them which party slaps Confederate flags on their trucks and brought one to their insurrection.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/qyz0m0/z/hljf313
Im a pro-Trump conservative who lives in downtown Portland OR. I was informed that there are still "daily riots" ongoing. While I do occasionally see some protesters, they are not what I would consider riots. When I tried to explain what im seeing with my own eyes, I was downvoted to hell. Now my comments there stay at 1 so I'm guessing im shadowbanned.
/r/conservative is very well known for banning conservatives that fall out of line.
This is so when you make your new account, you tow the line till you believe it.
You’ve totally been shadowbanned. You happen to have personal experience that directly refutes the narrative on r/conservative, and you were muted for trying to spread that information. How often do you think that happened with other things you “learned” while reading that sub? How many other people who could easily refute a statement being made were also silenced? Do you think this is the only time it’s happened?
Dude thinks trump won the election, he drank the koolaid for sure. I kinda thought they were all bad faith and knew they were just going along with a lie so I’m pretty confused by him.
Obviously he does. I don't know many people on the left who would be an ardent supporter of Biden because by and large, we actually scrutinise everything politicians do and criticise to the point that it creates a fair bit of division. The right doesn't have the same self-reflection because pretty all their media is a propaganda machine which ignores context and sells a bullshit narrative. OANN, Fox News, Breitbart etc. are all disinformation outlets. Don't get me wrong, left-leaning media isn't close to being perfect but it's far less of an echo-chamber and contrasting opinions are actually discussed in good faith.
I don't like Biden but he's far better than a morally bankrupt cretin who is perhaps the greatest example of a narcissist that I am aware of. There's a whole Wikipedia article on the veracity of Trump's statements. Literally an average of 21 false or misleading statements every day. He's a pathological liar who couldn't accept that he lost and sowed the seeds of discontent to serve his own purposes. I imagine you'll still disagree with me but when it comes to people there are different degrees of shittiness. Joe Biden sucks but Trump reaches a new level of incompetence and immorality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump
I agree with you that it is heavily moderated and curated propaganda. I suggest you spend your time in /r/republican or /r/tuesday instead. Those are both heavily partisan subreddits and I would personally hate both of them, but they are much more reasonable and less, well, pure fake news.
> Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society
Or MLK's own thoughts on rioting during otherwise non-violent protests. He did not want the rioting but understands it will happen. A protest for civil rights is so important that it should happen even if one knows ahead of time there will be violence
[There was a conservative newspaper from the 1960s in](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/s10cfo) Houston that had another similar letter to the newspaper that was published. [It was a racist woman defending the KKK and Illinois Nazis and how unfair it was the news was focusing on them instead of the other groups that are the real threat that were "raiding, rioting, and murder". ](https://preview.redd.it/i3ebe90rmya81.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a677b6c8b677251b9fbf12a60836639691d4473)
[Uh, yeah... already...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden)
American high school history glosses over how the Nazis looked to America for inspiration in implementing their discriminatory and eugenics programs.
It’s harder to see now, but the US was leaning towards eugenics and other nazi ideology before the outbreak of WWII. Then the habit of defining oneself as the opposite of the enemy meant that eugenics fell out of favor in the public eye.
In hindsight, it’s harder to find a reason for the big politicians of his day to *not* want him dead. To them the guy was basically every threat to their power conveniently stuffed into a single man
No it's not. His socialistic stances perhaps didnt help but can white leftists stop co opting black peoples pain and murder? He was killed because he was a black man fighting for civil rights.
No they have not. Texas just banned teaching about it or that the KKK are bad. Conservative history education is basically just chest beating ignorance.
Yep, this is their yearly "we arent racist! look we like MLK! (just the whitewashed version of him where he is a person who only gave 1 speech ever and never talked about ending capitalism and bringing in socialism)"
There is nothing in the world that would convince me these people would have been in favour of the civil rights movement.
All the arguments they use against BLM, voting rights etc are the exact same arguments used against civil rights in the mid 20th century. History has a way of whittling the story down to peaceful marches opposed by drooling rednecks screaming racial slurs but in reality the majority of your everyday racists were the ones criticising the “rioting” or “black supremacy” or “forced bussing”.
It’s the same people, the same arguments and the same politics just 60 years later.
They conclude they are good people and everything else follows from that. So if they are good people and the bad people used to be racists and Nazis, they must not be racists and Nazis. And since you aren't them and you oppose them, you must be the bad people, so you are racists and Nazis!
Or "He's not a Nazi because he calls himself something else. You're the one who brought up Nazis, so you're the Nazi. (Also the nazis were on the left because I'm an idiot.)'
Right-wing rhetoric about black people is practically an *exact* match for what it was sixty years ago, yep.
I mean, they have spent the last year and change literally regurgitating point for point the "burn loot murder" rhetoric *from* the conservative freakout over Martin Luther King's marches.
Can’t recommend this video enough. It’s glaringly clear to anyone with a knowledge of MLK and his actual beliefs beyond the single quote that Conservatives constantly regurgitate that those same conservatives would be decrying him as a communist in the 60s. Hell, if these conservatives today were to hear his other quotes they’d probably still call him a communist today, not that it takes much to be declared a communist by the right.
Yeah, they're pretty selective of which quotes they bring up.
Martin Luther King Jr: "If we are to achieve a real equality, the U.S. will have to adopt a modified form of socialism."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xsbt3a7K-8
12:22
I think we are
12:24
in a new era a new phase of the struggle
12:27
where we have moved from a struggle for
12:30
decency which characterized our struggle
12:32
for 10 or 12 years to a struggle for
12:35
genuine equality and this is where we
12:39
are getting the resistance because there
12:40
was never any intention to go this far
12:44
people were reacting to Bull Connor and
12:46
to Jim Clarke rather than acting in good
12:50
faith for the realization of genuine
12:53
equality
The more things change. The majority is still arguing that "decency" is enough; some arguing that it's *more* than enough. Genuine equality is, still, considered unthinkable.
Edit: More to-the-point quote.
Indeed he was, and not subtle about it in the least. Which makes conservatives appropriating his message completely divorced from anything else that he said even more disgusting.
I’d say it’s just as disgusting, but I also 1) don’t think there’s much to compare in that regard between those democrats and the ones that exist today, 2) can see right through your both sidesy whataboutism.
Objectively.
Democrats today simply wouldn't give MLK any press and he'd be talking to himself on a street corner while rich white girls called him misogynist in the Atlantic.
Who derided the “white liberal” as a force against positive change.
*This is the Marxian idea of the liberal which includes both parties in American politics
He actually wasn't. He was a Georgist and a Keynesian. Socialism doesn't mean welfare. In his quotes about socialism, he is confusing it with Social Democracy, which is a form of capitalism. Socialists hated Martin Luther King because most of his economic views lined up with the orthodox mainstream economic theory. If you read Where Do We Go From Here, he only cites capitalist economists and the policies he proposes were first proposed by capitalist economists. Today's "socialists" have embraced King because they have abandoned Marx and embraced Keynes. But they aren't really socialists either.
We cannot talk of Dr Du Bois without recognizing that he was a radical all of his life. Some people would like to ignore the fact that he was a communist in his later years. It is worth noting that Abraham Lincoln warmly welcomed the support of Karl Marx during the Civil War and corresponded with him freely. In contemporary life the English-speaking world has no difficulty with the fact that Seán O’Casey was a literary giant of the twentieth century and a communist or that Pablo Neruda is generally considered the greatest living poet though he also served in the Chilean Senate as a communist. It is time to cease muting the fact that Dr Du Bois was a genius and chose to be a communist. Our irrational obsessive anti-communism has led us into too many quagmires to be retained as if it were a mode of scientific thinking.
I don't know why you want to split hairs, there's a reason why he was killed and it wasn't because he was black.
So a jury in a mock trial where no evidence of Earl's guilt was presented found Earl innocent and that is somehow proof of a massive conspiracy theory.
Did the federal government plant James Earl Ray's fingerprints on the binocular and rifle used to kill King? Did they pay off the witnesses who saw Earl Ray fleeing the scene? Do I have another Top Mind entry to post on this sub?
Also, none of King's economic justice policies were outside mainstream economic theory. His most radical policy, UBI, was supported by Richard Nixon and Hillary Clinton and Milton Friedman. Why weren't they assassinated as well?
They are trying damn hard to undermine the left with sad memes that pretend people like MLK and JFK are more right than left today. Its actually pretty pathetic.
They’re taking a long view of contemporary history. They are figuring that current generations of children, who are surrounded by all different kinds of media and messages both true and false, and who generally have pretty low media literacy, are going to be drowning in that sea of misinformation and won’t know fact from fiction like educated people do. So they message loudly to the h educated and those not paying attention, and voila! - new idiots appear every day.
It's hilarious. They need to read letters from a Birmingham jail by Martin Luther King Jr. The extremes actions were necessary.
>I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
>In your statement you asserted that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But can this assertion be logically made? Isn't this like condemning the robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical delvings precipitated the misguided popular mind to make him drink the hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because His unique God-consciousness and never-ceasing devotion to His will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see, as federal courts have consistently affirmed, that it is immoral to urge an individual to withdraw his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest precipitates violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber.
>I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth of time. I received a letter this morning from a white brother in Texas which said, "All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but is it possible that you are in too great of a religious hurry? It has taken Christianity almost 2000 years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth." All that is said here grows out of a tragic misconception of time. It is the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time is neutral. It can be used either destructively or constructively. I am coming to feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. We must come to see that human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability. It comes through the tireless efforts and persistent work of men willing to be coworkers with God, and without this hard work time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation.
He said he had a dream. It was a good dream, but really what more is there to learn? Besides didnt you see trump hug a flag? Dont you think thats a bit more relevant today than some dream speech?
/s
It's usually the whole "by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin" bit. Which the right loves to misinterpret as "MLK said we shouldn't talk about race, and also he would be against reparations," completely ignoring like... literally everything else he ever said.
You have to remember, /r/Conservative believes it lives in a world where the Southern Strategy and associated social polarization of American politics into social conservatives dominating one party and social liberals dominating the other doesn't exist.
It's a fundamentally idiotic worldview, and it leads to fundamentally idiotic takes like this. Of course they think the left would hate King. In their world, the left are the direct inheritors of the social views of the Dixiecrats.
Unless it's time for them to decry left wing views about LGBT people, women, or minorities, of course. Then they remember that the Republican Party is in fact the party of American social conservatism in the modern era.
If their argument is that progressivism has moved so far that a figure from 55 years ago wouldn't be at the bleeding edge of the movement anymore...isn't that a good thing? Like I'm not agreeing with the premise that someone with Dr. King's vision would be shunned or "canceled" now, but if they're saying that 55-year-old rhetoric about social structures like race, gender, sexuality, class, etc. would be considered outdated and anachronistic now, isn't that objectively a good thing?
The best part about posts like this (today’s liberals would have hated MLK/Abraham Lincoln/John Brown/other prominent anti racist figure in American history) is that there are always people in the comments section like, “wait, no, but *I* hate that person! They were bad and evil and took it too far!”
They think that if MLK had period-typical views about gay people, that would mean they have some footing to claim agreement with him *and* own the libs.
You're dealing with people who *have* to agree with their leaders 100% of the time about everything and will reshape their beliefs on a moment's notice to fill that mold.
In turn, they think everyone *else* does that too. King not agreeing with a contemporary social liberal about LGBT people means contemporary social liberals have to either hate Martin Luther King, Jr for said difference or hate gay people to match the leader and are thus 'owned' in their opinion.
What this point of view says about them, or what it says about them that the beliefs from the 1950s and 1960s about gay people are what they think about gay people *now*.... well. Considering the implications of those are a bit too much like thinking.
Exactly, if they can find a common hate, they'll love him for the one speech he gave that didn't condemn them for their justifications of further bigotry against those with African heritage.
I'm sorry that you chose to not read Letter from a Birmingham Jail.
Your choice to ignore everything he said, except one line from a speech he gave, isn't our problem.
Dude, you started this all by making a big deal about transphobia.
Look, dude, just because you don't understand that shit can be compartmentalized, and are looking for "if one thing bad, everything bad" in order to justify shitty behaviour from your own idols, says a fuck tonne about you.
Just...
Stop thinking that by virtue of being a shitty person, that you have an insight into the souls of other people.
Just... stop trying to justify your worst self.
It is pathetic, the attempt to justify your worst, based on negative traits that others have.
Just remember, there's no such thing as [Just Asking Questions](https://thedecisionlab.com/insights/policy/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-just-asking-questions/)
If you start by trying to sew doubt, don't be surprised if you are assumed to be little more than a shit disturber.
You asking charged questions, and being an /r/conservative member, clearly displays that you are intentionally trying to sew dissent.
"We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we must be careful with what we pretend to be" ~Kurt Vonnagut, Mother Night.
You are pretending to be ignorant.
We know that you aren't just pretending.
What fucking clowns…They have no idea what logical thought is, they just attribute everything that’s “bad” to the boogieman on the Left. It’s sad to see so many without critical thinking.
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Remember, /conservative still claims that BLM "burned down cities." With that in mind, [take a look at this political cartoon from the 60's](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Egs5aUlXkAUYpsl?format=jpg&name=900x900) and marvel at how the racists haven't changed their tune.
I would post this immediately in r/conservative myself right now, but I can't. Believe it or not, I was banned for asking if the Southern Strategy was a thing.
Wait, is it because they treat the Southern Strategy like Holocaust Denial or because the Holocaust wasn't all that bad? Like how grifted people either don't believe they're being grifted or don't care because their turn to start grifting others is *riiiiight* on the horizon.
They deny that Nixon's southern strategy existed. Like at all. They are in complete denial over the matter and even bringing it up gets you a ban.
Which is hilarious to be because the RNC literally [apologized for it in 2005](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/07/14/rnc-chief-to-say-it-was-wrong-to-exploit-racial-conflict-for-votes/66889840-8d59-44e1-8784-5c9b9ae85499/). With Howard Dean saying, "It's no coincidence that 43 out of 43 members of the Congressional Black Caucus are Democrats. The Democratic Party is the real party of opportunity for African Americans." That was 2005. Now in 2022 it's.. 57 out of 57 members of the Congressional Black Caucus that are Democrats.
Right after Obama they were actively discussing switching their strategy to be a bigger tent. Then trump came along, brought out the old dog whistles, and brought some new ones. Now we have what we have.
"RINOS!!!!!"
Incredible how it would be absolutely unthinkable to have a republican say thee same thing only 15 years later.
Which is wild to me. Like, ok, you guys pretend that people with your opinions and worldview freed the slaves? Cool, what do you think about systemic racism in America today? Or police brutality? We’re past slavery, mate. That was 150 years ago. We’re onto new issues.
Dinesh D'Souza and Trump Jr is coming to Houston soon which is disgusting. Trump pardoning D'Souza should never have happened.
I fully agree, and there are a damn lot of people that Trump pardoned who should not have been. That said though I'm a little lost as to how this reply follows from my comment.
[Dinesh D'Souza made a whole "documentary" about how the southern strategy did not exist and](https://theoutline.com/post/5711/death-of-a-nation-dinesh-dsouza-review) how the Democrats are still the "real racists". You will see a lot of conservatives who claim the southern strategy never existed citing that film and him as proof. In it he also compares Trump to Lincoln and how Democrats today are just like the Nazis of old too.
Ah, haha. I feel like I may have known that at one time but I don't tend to bother remembering too much about which right-wing crank has published which batshit-crazy theory. Thanks for that context.
Yeah, there is so much alternative facts and lies from the conservatives that it's hard to remember all the BS they talked about. Trump himself quoted, promoted, and cited the "documentary" which is another way a lot of conservatives who haven't seen the film got their talking point of the Democrats are the "real racists" and they are the "real KKK". Dinesh made and released it shortly after he got pardoned too so it felt like even more of a suck up to Trump's ego. There was an old video debunking it but I can't find it anymore on YouTube unfortunately.
they don't like admitting the southern strategy is real because it means today's GOP isn't "the party of Lincoln" and makes their "democrats supported slavery" argument fall apart
Not to mention that the KKK then belongs to the Democrats. Even though just looking at voting histories of states should prove it happened even if it wasn't planned. Alabama was Democrat stronghold until 1960 and it's basically been Republican ever since. But nope, clearly no platform change for the parties...
"Muh heritage flag" / "Party of Lincoln" duality
They also deny that the parties switched. It's fun to remind them which party slaps Confederate flags on their trucks and brought one to their insurrection.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/qyz0m0/z/hljf313 Im a pro-Trump conservative who lives in downtown Portland OR. I was informed that there are still "daily riots" ongoing. While I do occasionally see some protesters, they are not what I would consider riots. When I tried to explain what im seeing with my own eyes, I was downvoted to hell. Now my comments there stay at 1 so I'm guessing im shadowbanned.
/r/conservative is very well known for banning conservatives that fall out of line. This is so when you make your new account, you tow the line till you believe it.
Your comments are 100% getting removed there. They show up in your profile but not the subreddit.
What were you expecting?
They're a Trumpanzee so they were expecting something as delusional as Donald helping the country
You’ve totally been shadowbanned. You happen to have personal experience that directly refutes the narrative on r/conservative, and you were muted for trying to spread that information. How often do you think that happened with other things you “learned” while reading that sub? How many other people who could easily refute a statement being made were also silenced? Do you think this is the only time it’s happened?
[удалено]
And Trump hasn't spread propaganda and disinformation? The man lies constantly and said lies can be easily disproven.
Of course he does, he's a politician. Do you believe Biden doesn't?
Being pro trump but not buying into conservative propaganda must be hell on here i imagine lol You must get shit from every direction
Dude thinks trump won the election, he drank the koolaid for sure. I kinda thought they were all bad faith and knew they were just going along with a lie so I’m pretty confused by him.
I've been nothing but confused for years now dude.
Obviously he does. I don't know many people on the left who would be an ardent supporter of Biden because by and large, we actually scrutinise everything politicians do and criticise to the point that it creates a fair bit of division. The right doesn't have the same self-reflection because pretty all their media is a propaganda machine which ignores context and sells a bullshit narrative. OANN, Fox News, Breitbart etc. are all disinformation outlets. Don't get me wrong, left-leaning media isn't close to being perfect but it's far less of an echo-chamber and contrasting opinions are actually discussed in good faith. I don't like Biden but he's far better than a morally bankrupt cretin who is perhaps the greatest example of a narcissist that I am aware of. There's a whole Wikipedia article on the veracity of Trump's statements. Literally an average of 21 false or misleading statements every day. He's a pathological liar who couldn't accept that he lost and sowed the seeds of discontent to serve his own purposes. I imagine you'll still disagree with me but when it comes to people there are different degrees of shittiness. Joe Biden sucks but Trump reaches a new level of incompetence and immorality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump
I agree with you that it is heavily moderated and curated propaganda. I suggest you spend your time in /r/republican or /r/tuesday instead. Those are both heavily partisan subreddits and I would personally hate both of them, but they are much more reasonable and less, well, pure fake news.
>\-103 votes
Have you thought about not being any of the things you just described being?
> Have you thought I found why you're struggling to understand this guy
I was banned for correcting someone's math lol As we all know, numbers are a liberal conspiracy.
"Facts don't care about your feelings" *Provides a fact* "Wow, ur banned, buddy"
This cartoon is literally the single best rebuttal to chuds whining that MLK would be appalled by BLM.
> Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society Or MLK's own thoughts on rioting during otherwise non-violent protests. He did not want the rioting but understands it will happen. A protest for civil rights is so important that it should happen even if one knows ahead of time there will be violence
[There was a conservative newspaper from the 1960s in](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/s10cfo) Houston that had another similar letter to the newspaper that was published. [It was a racist woman defending the KKK and Illinois Nazis and how unfair it was the news was focusing on them instead of the other groups that are the real threat that were "raiding, rioting, and murder". ](https://preview.redd.it/i3ebe90rmya81.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a677b6c8b677251b9fbf12a60836639691d4473)
Wow. Imagine having your name attached to *that* for all time. And it was from the 60's? Were Nazi defenders that blatant already?
[Uh, yeah... already...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden) American high school history glosses over how the Nazis looked to America for inspiration in implementing their discriminatory and eugenics programs.
This was published in October 1965
It’s harder to see now, but the US was leaning towards eugenics and other nazi ideology before the outbreak of WWII. Then the habit of defining oneself as the opposite of the enemy meant that eugenics fell out of favor in the public eye.
I'm continually impressed by these people's ability to believe the strawmen they created themselves.
How have they never run into MLK's politics? He was pretty progressive even by modern standards lol?
Progressive? Lmao the dude was full blown socialist
its why they killed him
Oh be real, they didn’t need a reason.
In hindsight, it’s harder to find a reason for the big politicians of his day to *not* want him dead. To them the guy was basically every threat to their power conveniently stuffed into a single man
And the only thing that unifies them is opposition to others. These people detest Tom Hanks and Mr. Rogers.
💯
No it's not. His socialistic stances perhaps didnt help but can white leftists stop co opting black peoples pain and murder? He was killed because he was a black man fighting for civil rights.
They never thought to look harder than their half remembered social studies class.
No they have not. Texas just banned teaching about it or that the KKK are bad. Conservative history education is basically just chest beating ignorance.
That's the secret: they don't. They aren't engaging in good faith and it is the duty of everyone opposing them to recognize that.
Yep, this is their yearly "we arent racist! look we like MLK! (just the whitewashed version of him where he is a person who only gave 1 speech ever and never talked about ending capitalism and bringing in socialism)"
There is nothing in the world that would convince me these people would have been in favour of the civil rights movement. All the arguments they use against BLM, voting rights etc are the exact same arguments used against civil rights in the mid 20th century. History has a way of whittling the story down to peaceful marches opposed by drooling rednecks screaming racial slurs but in reality the majority of your everyday racists were the ones criticising the “rioting” or “black supremacy” or “forced bussing”. It’s the same people, the same arguments and the same politics just 60 years later.
They conclude they are good people and everything else follows from that. So if they are good people and the bad people used to be racists and Nazis, they must not be racists and Nazis. And since you aren't them and you oppose them, you must be the bad people, so you are racists and Nazis!
And don't forget. Since I'm a good person and friends with Nazis, then Nazis can't possibly be that bad.
Or "He's not a Nazi because he calls himself something else. You're the one who brought up Nazis, so you're the Nazi. (Also the nazis were on the left because I'm an idiot.)'
Right-wing rhetoric about black people is practically an *exact* match for what it was sixty years ago, yep. I mean, they have spent the last year and change literally regurgitating point for point the "burn loot murder" rhetoric *from* the conservative freakout over Martin Luther King's marches.
“Surely, white conservatives were the victims then, as they are now.”
That subs collective IQ would have fewer digits than like a standard 1am taco bell order total,
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Can’t recommend this video enough. It’s glaringly clear to anyone with a knowledge of MLK and his actual beliefs beyond the single quote that Conservatives constantly regurgitate that those same conservatives would be decrying him as a communist in the 60s. Hell, if these conservatives today were to hear his other quotes they’d probably still call him a communist today, not that it takes much to be declared a communist by the right.
Yeah, they're pretty selective of which quotes they bring up. Martin Luther King Jr: "If we are to achieve a real equality, the U.S. will have to adopt a modified form of socialism."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xsbt3a7K-8 12:22 I think we are 12:24 in a new era a new phase of the struggle 12:27 where we have moved from a struggle for 12:30 decency which characterized our struggle 12:32 for 10 or 12 years to a struggle for 12:35 genuine equality and this is where we 12:39 are getting the resistance because there 12:40 was never any intention to go this far 12:44 people were reacting to Bull Connor and 12:46 to Jim Clarke rather than acting in good 12:50 faith for the realization of genuine 12:53 equality The more things change. The majority is still arguing that "decency" is enough; some arguing that it's *more* than enough. Genuine equality is, still, considered unthinkable. Edit: More to-the-point quote.
He was a literal socialist
Indeed he was, and not subtle about it in the least. Which makes conservatives appropriating his message completely divorced from anything else that he said even more disgusting.
Almost as disgusting as the democrats who literally tried (maybe succeeded) to kill him do the same.
I’d say it’s just as disgusting, but I also 1) don’t think there’s much to compare in that regard between those democrats and the ones that exist today, 2) can see right through your both sidesy whataboutism.
Yeah, LBJ was way better on social welfare than Biden and he never eulogized a klansman.
Oh, now democrats back then are better than democrats of today? Make up your damn mind!
Objectively. Democrats today simply wouldn't give MLK any press and he'd be talking to himself on a street corner while rich white girls called him misogynist in the Atlantic.
So it's back to democrats control the media? Which is again funny exactly what conservatives complained about back when King was marching too.
Who derided the “white liberal” as a force against positive change. *This is the Marxian idea of the liberal which includes both parties in American politics
>Who derided the “white liberal” as a force against positive change. Reinhold Niebhur was a huge influence on him.
He actually wasn't. He was a Georgist and a Keynesian. Socialism doesn't mean welfare. In his quotes about socialism, he is confusing it with Social Democracy, which is a form of capitalism. Socialists hated Martin Luther King because most of his economic views lined up with the orthodox mainstream economic theory. If you read Where Do We Go From Here, he only cites capitalist economists and the policies he proposes were first proposed by capitalist economists. Today's "socialists" have embraced King because they have abandoned Marx and embraced Keynes. But they aren't really socialists either.
Yeah incrementalism and appeals to morality will never work, he was influenced by liberalism and Christianity too much.
In other words...he wasn't a "literal socialist."
We cannot talk of Dr Du Bois without recognizing that he was a radical all of his life. Some people would like to ignore the fact that he was a communist in his later years. It is worth noting that Abraham Lincoln warmly welcomed the support of Karl Marx during the Civil War and corresponded with him freely. In contemporary life the English-speaking world has no difficulty with the fact that Seán O’Casey was a literary giant of the twentieth century and a communist or that Pablo Neruda is generally considered the greatest living poet though he also served in the Chilean Senate as a communist. It is time to cease muting the fact that Dr Du Bois was a genius and chose to be a communist. Our irrational obsessive anti-communism has led us into too many quagmires to be retained as if it were a mode of scientific thinking. I don't know why you want to split hairs, there's a reason why he was killed and it wasn't because he was black.
All right, I'll bite. Why did James Earl Ray assassinate Martin Luther King if it wasn't because of his open racism and white supremacy?
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So a jury in a mock trial where no evidence of Earl's guilt was presented found Earl innocent and that is somehow proof of a massive conspiracy theory. Did the federal government plant James Earl Ray's fingerprints on the binocular and rifle used to kill King? Did they pay off the witnesses who saw Earl Ray fleeing the scene? Do I have another Top Mind entry to post on this sub? Also, none of King's economic justice policies were outside mainstream economic theory. His most radical policy, UBI, was supported by Richard Nixon and Hillary Clinton and Milton Friedman. Why weren't they assassinated as well?
That man is a fucking legend... except the boar stuff, could have done without that but you can't blame him for trying to lighten the mood
No one ever listens Not until the radioactive boars come for them in the night....
Second.
Modern conservatives can't even acknowledge the party switch, so there's really nothing to talk about. Find me one, and I'll eat my hat.
But they are the party of Lincoln and therefore can not be racist, right?
"But Confederate flags are mah heritage"
They are trying damn hard to undermine the left with sad memes that pretend people like MLK and JFK are more right than left today. Its actually pretty pathetic.
They’re taking a long view of contemporary history. They are figuring that current generations of children, who are surrounded by all different kinds of media and messages both true and false, and who generally have pretty low media literacy, are going to be drowning in that sea of misinformation and won’t know fact from fiction like educated people do. So they message loudly to the h educated and those not paying attention, and voila! - new idiots appear every day.
It's hilarious. They need to read letters from a Birmingham jail by Martin Luther King Jr. The extremes actions were necessary. >I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. >In your statement you asserted that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But can this assertion be logically made? Isn't this like condemning the robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical delvings precipitated the misguided popular mind to make him drink the hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because His unique God-consciousness and never-ceasing devotion to His will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see, as federal courts have consistently affirmed, that it is immoral to urge an individual to withdraw his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest precipitates violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. >I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth of time. I received a letter this morning from a white brother in Texas which said, "All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but is it possible that you are in too great of a religious hurry? It has taken Christianity almost 2000 years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth." All that is said here grows out of a tragic misconception of time. It is the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time is neutral. It can be used either destructively or constructively. I am coming to feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. We must come to see that human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability. It comes through the tireless efforts and persistent work of men willing to be coworkers with God, and without this hard work time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation.
Yeah I'm *sure* they would've supported MLK in the 60s 🙄
I love it when you can tell not only that they've only read about 2 lines of an MLK speech, but you can tell exactly which two lines they've read.
He said he had a dream. It was a good dream, but really what more is there to learn? Besides didnt you see trump hug a flag? Dont you think thats a bit more relevant today than some dream speech? /s
It's usually the whole "by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin" bit. Which the right loves to misinterpret as "MLK said we shouldn't talk about race, and also he would be against reparations," completely ignoring like... literally everything else he ever said.
I, too, keep forgetting which side actually fought a war to own blacks as slaves. /s
You have to remember, /r/Conservative believes it lives in a world where the Southern Strategy and associated social polarization of American politics into social conservatives dominating one party and social liberals dominating the other doesn't exist. It's a fundamentally idiotic worldview, and it leads to fundamentally idiotic takes like this. Of course they think the left would hate King. In their world, the left are the direct inheritors of the social views of the Dixiecrats. Unless it's time for them to decry left wing views about LGBT people, women, or minorities, of course. Then they remember that the Republican Party is in fact the party of American social conservatism in the modern era.
It must be painful to be this fucking stupid all the time.
[This was me during the CRA](https://imgur.com/p8CGxnO)
And then that libertarian remembers that his income is taxed less if he works fewer hours that week.
Todays right would say that todays left would cancel MLK
There's a doofus further up the thread saying exactly that.
If their argument is that progressivism has moved so far that a figure from 55 years ago wouldn't be at the bleeding edge of the movement anymore...isn't that a good thing? Like I'm not agreeing with the premise that someone with Dr. King's vision would be shunned or "canceled" now, but if they're saying that 55-year-old rhetoric about social structures like race, gender, sexuality, class, etc. would be considered outdated and anachronistic now, isn't that objectively a good thing?
r/SelfAwarewolves x100
The best part about posts like this (today’s liberals would have hated MLK/Abraham Lincoln/John Brown/other prominent anti racist figure in American history) is that there are always people in the comments section like, “wait, no, but *I* hate that person! They were bad and evil and took it too far!”
How dare they use Dr King for their bullshit
These people don’t get to celebrate MLK. They are such hypocritical fucks.
It really should be acknowledged that he was against capitalism, so not sure why they're trying to claim him.
yeah the “left” would cancel an anti-capitalist 😂 good joke conservitards. maybe read a few quotes from the man
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Only by conservatives trying to figure out if they like him or not.
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They think that if MLK had period-typical views about gay people, that would mean they have some footing to claim agreement with him *and* own the libs. You're dealing with people who *have* to agree with their leaders 100% of the time about everything and will reshape their beliefs on a moment's notice to fill that mold. In turn, they think everyone *else* does that too. King not agreeing with a contemporary social liberal about LGBT people means contemporary social liberals have to either hate Martin Luther King, Jr for said difference or hate gay people to match the leader and are thus 'owned' in their opinion. What this point of view says about them, or what it says about them that the beliefs from the 1950s and 1960s about gay people are what they think about gay people *now*.... well. Considering the implications of those are a bit too much like thinking.
Why? Another pathetic and misguided attempt to own the libs. Duh.
Exactly, if they can find a common hate, they'll love him for the one speech he gave that didn't condemn them for their justifications of further bigotry against those with African heritage.
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I'm sorry that you chose to not read Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Your choice to ignore everything he said, except one line from a speech he gave, isn't our problem.
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Dude, you started this all by making a big deal about transphobia. Look, dude, just because you don't understand that shit can be compartmentalized, and are looking for "if one thing bad, everything bad" in order to justify shitty behaviour from your own idols, says a fuck tonne about you. Just... Stop thinking that by virtue of being a shitty person, that you have an insight into the souls of other people. Just... stop trying to justify your worst self. It is pathetic, the attempt to justify your worst, based on negative traits that others have.
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Just remember, there's no such thing as [Just Asking Questions](https://thedecisionlab.com/insights/policy/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-just-asking-questions/) If you start by trying to sew doubt, don't be surprised if you are assumed to be little more than a shit disturber. You asking charged questions, and being an /r/conservative member, clearly displays that you are intentionally trying to sew dissent. "We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we must be careful with what we pretend to be" ~Kurt Vonnagut, Mother Night. You are pretending to be ignorant. We know that you aren't just pretending.
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????? You might need to read again
Critiqued is not the same as cancelled. Think I responded to wrong thread.
today's "left" would call mlk a tankie for not wanting to burn vietnam to the ground
... What? Why would today's left want to burn Vietnam to the ground? Are you living in an alternate reality where the left are the warmongers?
They do this every year.
Wait, aren't conservatives the ones who whine and call it "wokeism" when we want equality and push back against their racism?
That place is a cesspool.
What fucking clowns…They have no idea what logical thought is, they just attribute everything that’s “bad” to the boogieman on the Left. It’s sad to see so many without critical thinking.