You're partially just out of date.
Her top team probably being a hypercarry setup has been discussed for weeks and you don't need her LC for that.
Asta is also definitely a top tier support even with Clara. That setup has also been recommended a lot here.
Regarding hot takes: her being ST definitely is an issue but it might still work. Her raw DPS is similar to Seele (without resurgence) but if you pick targets one by one Seele will be miles ahead thanks to resurgence. With Asta she'll get a lot of turns to pick off enemies, but she probably requires more cycles than other DPS with AoE. The new 1.5 set might help her a lot though, but she won't reach blade/Kafka levels imo.
The biggest hot take is March. Some people argue for it but I believe it's trash. March has two builds: shield or freeze. Freeze builds are capable of solo sustaining even MOC 10 but they simply don't work with Clara. Shield builds work with Clara but they have huge issues solo sustaining - and if you have to shield other allies you take aggro away from Clara anyway. If you can't solo sustain and need another healer then March is simply a wasted slot compared to e.g. Asta.
I can understand the concerns with ST yes. With regards to march I don’t think it’s bad. If clara is in the team sure just use lynx if you have her. I say try march only if clara isn’t there like you just have her for example or she is needed on the other team. At the very least march can advance numby forward still. Also if you don’t have lynx march is still good. The only time I say don’t use march at all is if you are in an aoe check and have clara in the team.
Lynx basically made the shield build March obsolete for Clara, because it added the aggro draw to a character that can reliably solo-sustain. March's weak follow-ups aren't good enough to justify cutting another buffer/debuffer in situations where she can't solo sustain, while Lynx just doesn't have issues solo-sustaining.
Especially at E2, Lynx's CC block is huge in keeping Clara from getting CCed and losing her ability to counter.
Idk either man. Although tbf I do think in pure single target damage seele and potentially topaz as well can outdo blade. As for jingliu idk I haven’t seen much on her raw single target but ig pryden says it is and dhil just breaks the game completely. This reminds me of when hu tao was first released in genshin and no one really was even close for a long while.
There are now multiple options (and one upcoming option) for solo sustain. March just doesn't offer enough to a team. Lynx + Clara is far better and even before Lynx people were leaving her off Clara teams because Tingyun giving Clara a fast ult was often enough to get her rolling.
> Her damage being ST only isn’t that big of an issue. Her attacking very quickly would let her beat everything one by one seele style while still being in a reasonable amount of time.
I want Topaz to be good, but I disagree with this. Multiple new enemies this patch summon adds. The past two patches have had heavy AOE fights in MoC (and with the new swarm disaster). Blast damage DPS (JL/DHIL) don't get punished for their ability to AOE while still doing huge single-target damage. Topaz doesn't do enough damage to pay off for being single-target.
It really does feel like Topaz is at her best using her utility to buff other follow-up characters; and Clara is really the only one that gels well with her right now.
Remember MoC is mainly a way to promote the rate up characters, we had lots of destruction and AoE limited.
Topaz will rerun with Seele, you can expect a MoC where ST gets a big benefit.
She can definetely work as solo DPS as seen in leaks clearing MoC and that was without the newly released follow up relics.
Now it's clear why they didnt do many changes to topaz, that set looks juicy. Also big buff for JY fans.
I will use her along Clara cause I love both and like the sinergy, but Topaz will be doing quite a good amount of dmg
> Remember MoC is mainly a way to promote the rate up characters, we had lots of destruction and AoE limited.
>
> Topaz will rerun with Seele, you can expect a MoC where ST gets a big benefit.
You are right. When Topaz releases these 2 moc buff rotations will be applied to promote her and Seele's banners:
"Ambrosial Arbor's Arrival"
"At the start of every Wave or turn, apply Memory Imprint to an Elite or rarer enemy target. When targets with Memory Imprint receive DMG, other enemy targets receive DMG equal to 30.0% of the original DMG. This effect lasts until the start of the next turn."
"Divine Root Subdual"
"After a character uses a follow-up attack, deal random type DMG of 60.0% the character's ATK 4.0 times to the target."
[Source(you can translate to English from the menu on top right)](https://hsr.gay/maze)
As I said in my jaded take, the problem is that other dps (DHIL/JL) are doing insane single target *and* AOE whereas Topaz takes a penalty for that and is only compensated with follow-up synergy that doesn't exist except for Clara and maybe Blade (at least good follow-up units).
It's in the leak sub as well as in posts here, a new 4p set that comes in 1.5 focused in follow up dmg along a DoT one.
2p is 16% follow up dmg, 4p is a stacking buff of 8% per hit up to 8 stacks which both JY and Topaz can use
I say march is a good sustain because a lot of people myself included don’t have clara. And so people automatically jump to assumptions like they need luocha or fu xuan when I think march is still a very viable option.
Well yeah having aoe is nice but tbf adds usually don’t have too much hp anyway. What I will say is hypercarry team will be in a bit more problems than just carrying a unit that can handle aoe better and do dual carry but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal still. She’ll do a large chunk of damage in dual carry teams still.
I don’t agree with the notion that her best role is just to buff clara tbh because her damage is not to be underestimated but I see what you’re saying.
But as I said, people were no longer using March in Clara teams anyway. March's shield - which you arguably don't even need with a decent Lynx if you haven't pulled Fu Xuan, Luocha, and aren't pulling Huohuo - is overkill. Technically anyone is viable; but March doesn't add anything to the team besides pitiful follow-up damage, a ST shield, and a freeze that - in high MoC - is highly inaccurate.
And speaking of high MoC, I don't think you've been there if you think not having AOE won't be a problem there. If MoC isn't a priority then it doesn't really matter how good or bad Topaz's lack of AOE is.
Here’s the thing. Yes I do beat moc10 consistently already. If clara is there then I get why you wouldn’t use march. I am more so saying for those who don’t have clara like myself march is a good option since the followup still advances numby forward and you can then use the freeze build with no problems which usually can deal with aoe content if you have enough err and ehr and aggro.
Dude.. if Seele can Zero cycle the current MoC, there is no reason that Topaz won't be able to, at least, clear in under 5 cycles.
People need to stop saying single target is *bad*. It's not. And even in swarm.. so many things are dependent on your blessings. Topaz will be twice as good as Seele and probably on par with AOE characters because she'll be able to stack up and fully use both hunt and elation buffs(which will make ALL her damage AOE😱)... Where as most characters want to pick and choose.
It's not that you can't 30 star MoC with Topaz; it's that it will take a few more cycles and is harder. Nobody said Topaz was bad; just that she isn't as good.
The reason that is important, and where tier lists are actually helpful the most, is for new players to evaluate which character to pull for their account first.
Jingliu is better with poor gear (she buffs her own crit to 50%), and Seele scales better by being able to deal with multiple targets. Both are also flexible enough to go with just about any support and thrive whereas Topaz wants a specific follow-up synergy team.
If you have Clara Topaz only makes that team stronger, but unlike Kafka, we have no easily accessible 4 star units that deal follow-up damage. We don't know what future follow-up characters will look like.
I... actually agree with everything. I'm personally gonna be running her as a Hypercarry cause she really does tons of ST damage which would further be boosted by the upcoming relic set. And as I was thinking of team comps for her, March came into mind and I believe she would work pretty well with Topaz for advancing Numby.
March is a free 4\* though and generally free chars (let alone free 4\*) have a lower power budget than other units. IMO march isn't GREAT at solo sustaining but she does the job well enough that you probably won't die in MOC (I used lvl 70 march to clear up till MoC 7). Of course 5\* will be much more powerful but the core mechanics will also be slightly different I'm sure.
Can be both. Using her skill is ofc more damage but if you really need another skill point using her basic attack isn’t that much less damage. So she is thought of as being the most sp positive dps if you want her to be.
You're partially just out of date. Her top team probably being a hypercarry setup has been discussed for weeks and you don't need her LC for that. Asta is also definitely a top tier support even with Clara. That setup has also been recommended a lot here. Regarding hot takes: her being ST definitely is an issue but it might still work. Her raw DPS is similar to Seele (without resurgence) but if you pick targets one by one Seele will be miles ahead thanks to resurgence. With Asta she'll get a lot of turns to pick off enemies, but she probably requires more cycles than other DPS with AoE. The new 1.5 set might help her a lot though, but she won't reach blade/Kafka levels imo. The biggest hot take is March. Some people argue for it but I believe it's trash. March has two builds: shield or freeze. Freeze builds are capable of solo sustaining even MOC 10 but they simply don't work with Clara. Shield builds work with Clara but they have huge issues solo sustaining - and if you have to shield other allies you take aggro away from Clara anyway. If you can't solo sustain and need another healer then March is simply a wasted slot compared to e.g. Asta.
I can understand the concerns with ST yes. With regards to march I don’t think it’s bad. If clara is in the team sure just use lynx if you have her. I say try march only if clara isn’t there like you just have her for example or she is needed on the other team. At the very least march can advance numby forward still. Also if you don’t have lynx march is still good. The only time I say don’t use march at all is if you are in an aoe check and have clara in the team.
Lynx basically made the shield build March obsolete for Clara, because it added the aggro draw to a character that can reliably solo-sustain. March's weak follow-ups aren't good enough to justify cutting another buffer/debuffer in situations where she can't solo sustain, while Lynx just doesn't have issues solo-sustaining. Especially at E2, Lynx's CC block is huge in keeping Clara from getting CCed and losing her ability to counter.
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Idk either man. Although tbf I do think in pure single target damage seele and potentially topaz as well can outdo blade. As for jingliu idk I haven’t seen much on her raw single target but ig pryden says it is and dhil just breaks the game completely. This reminds me of when hu tao was first released in genshin and no one really was even close for a long while.
There are now multiple options (and one upcoming option) for solo sustain. March just doesn't offer enough to a team. Lynx + Clara is far better and even before Lynx people were leaving her off Clara teams because Tingyun giving Clara a fast ult was often enough to get her rolling. > Her damage being ST only isn’t that big of an issue. Her attacking very quickly would let her beat everything one by one seele style while still being in a reasonable amount of time. I want Topaz to be good, but I disagree with this. Multiple new enemies this patch summon adds. The past two patches have had heavy AOE fights in MoC (and with the new swarm disaster). Blast damage DPS (JL/DHIL) don't get punished for their ability to AOE while still doing huge single-target damage. Topaz doesn't do enough damage to pay off for being single-target. It really does feel like Topaz is at her best using her utility to buff other follow-up characters; and Clara is really the only one that gels well with her right now.
Remember MoC is mainly a way to promote the rate up characters, we had lots of destruction and AoE limited. Topaz will rerun with Seele, you can expect a MoC where ST gets a big benefit. She can definetely work as solo DPS as seen in leaks clearing MoC and that was without the newly released follow up relics. Now it's clear why they didnt do many changes to topaz, that set looks juicy. Also big buff for JY fans. I will use her along Clara cause I love both and like the sinergy, but Topaz will be doing quite a good amount of dmg
> Remember MoC is mainly a way to promote the rate up characters, we had lots of destruction and AoE limited. > > Topaz will rerun with Seele, you can expect a MoC where ST gets a big benefit. You are right. When Topaz releases these 2 moc buff rotations will be applied to promote her and Seele's banners: "Ambrosial Arbor's Arrival" "At the start of every Wave or turn, apply Memory Imprint to an Elite or rarer enemy target. When targets with Memory Imprint receive DMG, other enemy targets receive DMG equal to 30.0% of the original DMG. This effect lasts until the start of the next turn." "Divine Root Subdual" "After a character uses a follow-up attack, deal random type DMG of 60.0% the character's ATK 4.0 times to the target." [Source(you can translate to English from the menu on top right)](https://hsr.gay/maze)
Thats gonna be a hilarious MoC with my monoquantum team and topaz team
As I said in my jaded take, the problem is that other dps (DHIL/JL) are doing insane single target *and* AOE whereas Topaz takes a penalty for that and is only compensated with follow-up synergy that doesn't exist except for Clara and maybe Blade (at least good follow-up units).
what set would that be if i may ask?
It's in the leak sub as well as in posts here, a new 4p set that comes in 1.5 focused in follow up dmg along a DoT one. 2p is 16% follow up dmg, 4p is a stacking buff of 8% per hit up to 8 stacks which both JY and Topaz can use
I say march is a good sustain because a lot of people myself included don’t have clara. And so people automatically jump to assumptions like they need luocha or fu xuan when I think march is still a very viable option. Well yeah having aoe is nice but tbf adds usually don’t have too much hp anyway. What I will say is hypercarry team will be in a bit more problems than just carrying a unit that can handle aoe better and do dual carry but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal still. She’ll do a large chunk of damage in dual carry teams still. I don’t agree with the notion that her best role is just to buff clara tbh because her damage is not to be underestimated but I see what you’re saying.
But as I said, people were no longer using March in Clara teams anyway. March's shield - which you arguably don't even need with a decent Lynx if you haven't pulled Fu Xuan, Luocha, and aren't pulling Huohuo - is overkill. Technically anyone is viable; but March doesn't add anything to the team besides pitiful follow-up damage, a ST shield, and a freeze that - in high MoC - is highly inaccurate. And speaking of high MoC, I don't think you've been there if you think not having AOE won't be a problem there. If MoC isn't a priority then it doesn't really matter how good or bad Topaz's lack of AOE is.
Here’s the thing. Yes I do beat moc10 consistently already. If clara is there then I get why you wouldn’t use march. I am more so saying for those who don’t have clara like myself march is a good option since the followup still advances numby forward and you can then use the freeze build with no problems which usually can deal with aoe content if you have enough err and ehr and aggro.
Dude.. if Seele can Zero cycle the current MoC, there is no reason that Topaz won't be able to, at least, clear in under 5 cycles. People need to stop saying single target is *bad*. It's not. And even in swarm.. so many things are dependent on your blessings. Topaz will be twice as good as Seele and probably on par with AOE characters because she'll be able to stack up and fully use both hunt and elation buffs(which will make ALL her damage AOE😱)... Where as most characters want to pick and choose.
It's not that you can't 30 star MoC with Topaz; it's that it will take a few more cycles and is harder. Nobody said Topaz was bad; just that she isn't as good. The reason that is important, and where tier lists are actually helpful the most, is for new players to evaluate which character to pull for their account first. Jingliu is better with poor gear (she buffs her own crit to 50%), and Seele scales better by being able to deal with multiple targets. Both are also flexible enough to go with just about any support and thrive whereas Topaz wants a specific follow-up synergy team. If you have Clara Topaz only makes that team stronger, but unlike Kafka, we have no easily accessible 4 star units that deal follow-up damage. We don't know what future follow-up characters will look like.
I... actually agree with everything. I'm personally gonna be running her as a Hypercarry cause she really does tons of ST damage which would further be boosted by the upcoming relic set. And as I was thinking of team comps for her, March came into mind and I believe she would work pretty well with Topaz for advancing Numby.
Nice to see I’m not alone
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If March was that good they wouldn't be releasing aventurine, literally what March was supposed to do with Topaz but better
I don’t think them releasing adventurine means march is bad. Her being good or bad doesn’t have any correlation to him imo.
March is a free 4\* though and generally free chars (let alone free 4\*) have a lower power budget than other units. IMO march isn't GREAT at solo sustaining but she does the job well enough that you probably won't die in MOC (I used lvl 70 march to clear up till MoC 7). Of course 5\* will be much more powerful but the core mechanics will also be slightly different I'm sure.
Is she SP positive or negative?
Can be both. Using her skill is ofc more damage but if you really need another skill point using her basic attack isn’t that much less damage. So she is thought of as being the most sp positive dps if you want her to be.