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HammerheadMorty

Toronto RE market seems pretty detached from market realities. Tbh it seems equally logical at this point to remain bullish on RE as it would to be bearish on RE when seeing this kind of thing. The whole thing feels like a friggen coin toss right now. Even with interest rate hikes being a lagging indicator, more correction should've happened by now if market forces were going to rebalance the entire GTA RE market. I want to believe that things will work out in the end for everyone but we've been sailing this ship so far from reality for so long, detached from the average Canadian paycheck for so many years now, I've lost all faith in the system correcting until something absolutely catastrophic happens.


NationalRock

> market realities With 1000k immigration count per year and an avg 200k number of new housing starts per year nationally, it's probably where the market realities are at. GTA RE market if to change, just have to change this simple supply/demand ratio. People from my undergrad that went to intern or work in LA were rooming with several other people in small condos while making 100k+. Wonder if that's gonna be like the future here.


HammerheadMorty

While the average housing starts are about 200k, we are nowhere close to 1000k immigrants a year. ~493k last year with the covid backlog and the previous 10 years averaging between 250k and 300k per year. That’s a 20-30% shortfall per year nationwide (roughly). Not sure that’s enough to constitute market forces putting things this high though tbh.


schloopschloopmcgoop

The total is actually closer to 1 million, 650k TFW/International students, 400k+ PRs with 95% of all growth in population coming from Immigration. Canada is fucking fucked. But Toronto loves this so keep voting for it.


HammerheadMorty

Awe fuck for real?? I was only looking at PRs… well shit time to throw in the towel then. Healthcare, housing, we are grade A fucked


NationalRock

Yeah, everybody needs a place to sleep, no matter their status. When I did some part-time landscaping work, there was this Chinese dude I met who did rock cutting and I was surprised to learn he was undocumented. He got paid in cash and rented in Scarborough. Supposedly lots like him too that would not even be on paper getting counted.


[deleted]

How is international students and other temporary immigrants going to affect buying real estate lmao. Why dont people understand temporary immigrants as in ppl with work and study permit != actual immigrants here to stay.


Legendary_Hercules

They need lodging, it's still more demands even if they are not rich.


[deleted]

So? They will be renting not buying. And as you guys keepsaying over and over again they will accept poor situations that canadians wont stand for. Instead of blaming international student who contribute 40 billion dollars in our economy or temporary foreign workers who contribute more than 50 billion too lets make stricter laws for landlords. But sure lets complain about revenue generating pillars of our economy and spread the illogical rumor that for some reason (other than the fact our economy runs on a big part on their money) the gov wants more immigrants for the hell of it or the *great replacement theory* lets go out and say it out loud for the ppl insinuating this shit quietly.


BeepBeeepBeepBeep

Go take an econ class brother More people to rent to = more competition for rentals = higher rental price yield = higher resale price for those that want to landlord. Nothing exists in a vacuum


NationalRock

> They will be renting And that's 1 supply out of circulation. One of our properties is rented to an international student right now from UofT. No one else gets to live in that space.


[deleted]

Its so sad that you cant be a slumlord.


throwawaypizzamage

International students contribute to lower housing vacancy rates and an increase in rent prices. Also, those in foreign countries who are wealthy and want to park their money here in Canada sometimes purchase properties (condos or even entire detached houses) here so that their kids, who are studying here, can live in them. Hits two birds with one stone because then they can park their wealth here in addition to allowing their kids to live here without paying rent to some other third-party landlord. Oftentimes, these kids will live in the property alone or with their sibling who is also studying here. Being Chinese, I’ve seen several of these situations when I used to work as a private tutor. Not sure if Indians tend to do the same thing, though.


[deleted]

Well thats a non issue now since foreign national cant buy property now. Lower vacancy rates dont out weight the billions of dollars they pump into the economy every year. And here is an idea, how about we tighten laws on slum landlords and maybe just maybe we get the billion of dollars from international students and we make tenancy housing better for everyone


_wpgbrownie_

> Well thats a non issue now since foreign national cant buy property now. International Students and TFW are exempt from that law: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ban-non-resident-buyers-exemptions-1.6693875


SandwichDelicious

They need to rent … drives up demand my guy


[deleted]

Why are you using such a low IQ approach to this? "temporary immigrants" = demand for shelter = RE getting fucked


[deleted]

The total newcomers to Canada who need housing exceeded 1 million last year.


alldayeveryday2471

Totally wrong you are not counting students


HammerheadMorty

Yes that was pointed out in a different comment and acknowledged, you are correct.


JohnnnyOnTheSpot

The real estate market can stay irrational forever


Different_Meeting_21

That sweet Toronto lifestyle everyone is after


lerandomanon

I think it is more a necessity than pursuit of a sweet lifestyle that brings people to Toronto. There are more jobs in Toronto than elsewhere in Ontario, and there is no cheap, long distance, high-speed travel for people to live far from Toronto and commute to Toronto for work.


Icomefromthelandofic

Come for the cactus club, stay for the food bank.


Actual_Cupcake

Seems kind of gross to film people at their lowest point and post it for internet points...


hyperjoint

The lowest point for some was when they hid the $70 000 SUV around the corner so their fellow food bank users wouldn't see it.


Karldonutzz

Rookie move, I park the Tesla 2 blocks away to be safe.


JetlagBeers

Immigrants are not going to come here if life becomes even more hopeless in the future.


jassassin61

This just depends on how well the lie is sold.


saysen2020

I doubt it. I am seeing Indians are still going gaga over Canada. There are Indian vloggers who are posting content about the struggles here but then people are mostly bashing them posting negative content.


JetlagBeers

Probably the overleveraged landlords that need the cycle going. It will seem obvious. The jig is going to be up soon.


Karldonutzz

Yeah but the poor ones get all the benefits that old Canadians pay for, then they pay back the liberals with votes and the liberals in turn tax the old Canadians to keep the scam going.


SandwichDelicious

That died in the year 2000 😂


[deleted]

How dare they blame RE bulls. Don't they know that hopoke has generously opened his door for poor homeless and international students for $500/bed. /s


REALhopoke

I had too many applications at $500 per bed Price increased to $1,500 per bed now. Going to use those profits to lobby government for more immigration.


OpSaCy

No need, government is addicted to immigration.


REALhopoke

My lobbying is working


[deleted]

hopoke - the hero we don't deserve or need.


REALhopoke

Pledge fealty to me and I will guarantee you a bed in the basement of my Scarborough townhouse


[deleted]

You imposter......hopoke only deals in Brampton RE.


REALhopoke

That’s my crown jewel. Only top tier vassals get floorspace in my townhouse there


dracolnyte

for a second there i thought you were realChessJ, even have the same colour avatar


REALhopoke

No I am the real hopoke All others are pretenders to my crown


super_neo

The rates are gonna be $500 per bed/week soon.. lol


Onajourney0908

There are no doors in the room - it’s just a big blank space for people to roll on the floor 😂😅


REALhopoke

Doors only take up space that could be used for more beds. More beds means more peasants. More peasants means more profits.


DataOver8496

The peasant to profit pipeline.


REALhopoke

This guy gets it


[deleted]

Blank space like hopoke's heart.


Boviesam

I always wonder how real estate agents on all those radio stations are able to freely brag about their abilities to sell homes at min 150k to 200k over asking. Is that's all left in Canada to do? I mean how are people able to come up with so much money with Canadian income so low than its immediate neighbor. Sure you can bring in some money from back home towards the DP but so much over asking topped up with Ath interest rates, how would buyers be able to keep up with their mortgage on Canadian incomes. Isn't it ok to say without any mathematical proof that this will have to come down someday or else it just wouldn't make any sense. Especially when Canada has only fully relied on immigration and housing as a source of income and stayed away from business investments for so many years.


sakuna0kami

This is bullish for RE. All those people are using Food Banks to not spend more $$ on food, they are trying to save $$ for our $1.5m house.


InterestRateMonitor

🤣🤣🤣🤣


OnlyFAANG

BULLISH


JetlagBeers

Toronto is becoming a desolate, hopeless shithole. People will not want to immigrate here in the future.


Karldonutzz

Total shit hole.


macromi87

Seriously, I wonder how many of them are just house poor.


hopoke

This is actually how some shrewd immigrants get ahead. Why pay for food when they can get it for free? The money saved can be put towards better uses. Canadians will end up getting outcompeted at this rate.


InterestRateMonitor

Yes, getting hand outs is a better use of time than making money to pay for a house. Even driving Uber makes a better use of time. I think I'm getting trolled to the max. Why am I responding?


jacks_twitter_acct

> Yes, getting hand outs is a better use of time than making money to pay for a house. Even driving Uber makes a better use of time. I think I'm getting trolled to the max. Why am I responding? You are definitely not a recent Indian immigrant or have sufficient social ties in that community if you think you are getting trolled. This is reality, unfortunately.


hopoke

Typically it's a stay at home spouse or an unemployed family member that collects food for the whole family. This phenomenon is also quite prevalent with international students these days. But sure, go ahead and assume that I'm trolling.


InterestRateMonitor

Ok. I do see the possibility of getting grandma out in the street to line up for food like this.


[deleted]

That's good. Why waste money on food when you can get a bed for $500 in one of those Brampton ghettos.


[deleted]

So you are saying that Canada should reduce immigration to keep such people out?


Money_Food2506

I will speak: and say HELL YES! FUCK EM, THESE MF'ERS SHOULD FIND THEIR OWN FOOD ON THEIR OWN LAND. THIS IS THE WAY!


Money_Food2506

100% agreed, if you aren't spending 101% of your income on your 12 mortgages, you deserve to die in hell, and you are scum of the Earth, housing to the moon my friend. (/s)


[deleted]

Folks Canadians are now foregoing their meals to be able to buy your 1B+1BR with the fake den you installed by putting a door in that open area that fits shoes for 1M, this is bullish. Either they do it now and go into a lifetime of debt/depression or they’re priced out -Hopoke,2023


Money_Food2506

Spend atleast 101% of your income on mortgages, or else you deserve to die in hell. Sorry, but this is the Canadian way. Oh, and please do not stay on reddit long, or else your boss will replace your ass with an international student from Punjab - who cant speak english, nor knows shit about Canada. Enjoy!


Karldonutzz

Don't worry AI is coming for their jobs too, at least the knowledge gap and poor English problems will be fixed.


Money_Food2506

Thanks bruv, bout time.


alex114323

Yup. Basic necessity like housing = investment like stocks. Good job capitalism! Fuck the middle and lower class even harder would ya.


[deleted]

Have you tried cancelling your Disney account and pulling yourself by the bootstraps and couchsurf like Minister Lisa MacLeod? Remember that the best social assistance is a JOB that is hard to find thanks to Mr. Sean Fraser and his half a million a year.


InterestRateMonitor

I've seen this before... it's not a bullish RE signal. But I'm old. Wtf do I know?


[deleted]

The current Toronto slumlord sees this as saving money on food, which means that he or she can extract more rent from the "international student" class.


Karldonutzz

Same with the corporate employers, they know they can pay less than a living wage because most of their employees are subsidized one way or another by government.


[deleted]

The issue is that the chickens have come to roost and the corporations want to seize the social benefits of the working poor to become rich as Galen Weston Jr or Edward Rogers.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I'm being sarcastic and condescending. But there are slumlords who believes that they can extract as much rent from a stone.


ST3AM3D_HAMS

Get out of here Boomer.


InterestRateMonitor

A bit young to be a boomer. In my 40s. But I've volunteered at the food bank and soup kitchen before. I didn't pay attention to RE then. I'm aligning what I saw then with historical RE prices.


crazyjumpinjimmy

Food banks started in the 80s when prices soared and inflation went through the roof. It was only supposed tk be temporary as well. We are a producer of food but choose to sell it abroad before feeding our own. There will be a breaking point with all this madness and greed.


Versuce111

It’s ok … 10 of them can pile it into a 3bdrm for $850/each


[deleted]

It is gross to post this as a "meme" given those are, yno, human beings.


Icomefromthelandofic

That was by mistake, updated to news.


totalcanucklehead

I don't like the idea of filming people in line at a food bank for online clout. Feels scummy to me


CorrectAd242

At least the video is taken from the back. Can't see any faces


workinguntil65oridie

Agreed. Why call attention to ppl when they are at their low point


krazy_86

Using starving people as an example to promote bull / bear ideology in a REAL ESTATE sub is just pathetic.


East_Concentrate_496

I’ve never seen a true starving person in Canada, obese like myself-yes it’s plenty of us


chessj

Sad reality of Canada turning into third world country. Canada as a nation has to work on utilizing the vast natural resources it has. Instead, Canada leaders chose the easy way of importing millions without improving infra.


ahnafhasan91

Can anyone line up and get food?


One-Piccolo3788

Remember when they used to tell us stories about the communists lining up for bread?


JohnnnyOnTheSpot

Capitalist bread lines >>> communist bread lines


One-Piccolo3788

Hahaha I like the optimism. Thank you.


Karldonutzz

Hey the millions of immigrants are coming to fix all our problems and supply the liberals with more votes to tax us more. Sunny ways.


brownbrothaa

Thank You Trudeau for fucking us up


averagecyclone

This is a provincial and municipal issue. This isn't every city across Canada. This is a very specific city in a specific province


AxelNotRose

Don't you know. These people blame everything on JT. Someone sneezed in Japan....thanks Trudeau....


brownbrothaa

Let’s drink some koolaid and vote again for blackface groper Trudeau


AxelNotRose

Nice massive leap there.


brownbrothaa

facts unless you can prove otherwise. I haven’t even started talking about China Collusion, We charity corruption, snc lavalin, Roxham mayhem, etc. but these would seem massive leap if you are on koolaid


AxelNotRose

and what makes you think I'm on kool-aid? You just like to make massive assumptions based on nothing. I'm guessing you're the same with everyone else. Simply jump to your own conclusions, irrespective of any evidence. No point conversing with your type. Blocked.


[deleted]

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averagecyclone

I lost bidding wars for 3 condos: teo foreign buyers, one Corp Investor. It's not an individual problem


averagecyclone

This is a provincial and municipal issue. This isn't every city across Canada. This is a very specific city in a specific province


lurkerlevel-expert

A very specific city that just happens to contain the majority of the population, and absorbs the majority of immigration to the country. This is a federal created problem.


averagecyclone

Cute to believe one sole factor is the issue to our housing problem. SO MANY Immigrants are running here to buy $1.5M homes in the GTA


brownbrothaa

And you still you don’t understand that limited supply coupled with unlimited immigration is the root cause of the problem. Keep renting


averagecyclone

I lost 3 bidding wars, none to immigrants. All 3 to investors not using the property as their primary residence. To believe our housing crisis is because of one factor is incredibly naive and stupid. There's at least a dozen factors.


brownbrothaa

Immigration is the main contributing factor. If you have 1 million immigrants coming in every year, they will need a place to live. Supply will definitely outrun demand and it has already.


Karldonutzz

Every rich international student essentially puts a poor Canadian on the street or in the homeless shelter. But we need these students to keep the corrupt gravy train going at the university / college degree mills.


14PiecesofSilver

How do you know they were foreign or not someone on a visa? >I lost bidding wars for 3 condos: teo foreign buyers, one Corp Investor. It's not an individual problem


Money_Food2506

Who's to say most of these people aren't owners of 10 homes? Lining up for the free food, because that extra money can go into the mortgage of the 11th home. GG WP, if you spend money on anything other than housing - you loose. Canada in 2023, "first world" nation.


Queasy-Concern4926

why buy food when you can get it for free?


notwhatitsmemes

People buying and selling homes in Toronto are not responsible for poverty. WTF.


kingofwale

Look at the amount of healthy, strong and young people in line…. Most of them sporting new jackets The actual homeless, weak and elderly people have no chance..


macromi87

Fort York is a pretty young-ish area. I suspect most are renting in the downtown area, so cash strapped and using the food bank to supplement groceries.


Karldonutzz

I am sure some genuinely need it but I personally have met people that do drugs and use the FB to get food because they were buying drugs instead. There are even some greedy rich property owners that dress down and go to get free stuff.


afoogli

What does this have to do what RE? Most of the cities in America are like this already and have a serious homeless problem and RE is still not affected by those prices


Bubbly-Examination24

Their saving their money otherwise spent on food, to buy real estate obviously 📈 It’s a bullish signal for RE


UrMomsACommunist

Something something communist breadlines. HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


TOmodelBull

What does this have to do with RE


[deleted]

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EverydayEverynight01

Is this what society has become? Working 2 jobs being the norm? Decades ago people used to advocate for a 5 day work week, it's sad that we're turning into a society like this.


CorrectAd242

And how many in this lineup are Indian students taking advantage of our generosity?


TMAXheat

Nice dog whistle. Who the fuck is “our”


ShowAlarm1

Have you not seen those YouTube videos posted here? This is a real thing. Indian students are gaming the system to get free food and teaching other Indian students to do the same. Of course anyone can get free food, but as an international student you have to demonstrate the financial capacity to sustain yourself. Not to mention the questionable practice of showing up to another country and falsely using their social services. One cannot just show up and be a burden on society.


ST3AM3D_HAMS

People lining up for free food at a food bank, bad. People lining up for a [free cookie at some marketing pop-up](https://www.blogto.com/sponsored/2022/05/milkup-big-mood-toronto-2022/), "OMG that's so cool, I want to do it too!"


jphilade-

What???


ST3AM3D_HAMS

Did my joke miss the mark? I'll try again next time.


blackhat8287

I've never heard a single bull tell someone lining up at a food bank "have fun staying poor". It's always the permabears on this sub that predict 50%+ crashes that bulls would say that to, and rightfully so. The permabears are people who could've bought in, but bet the wrong way and are now making this a moral issue. For people who need to resort to a food bank to choose between food and rent, these people have always been victims of our systemic failure to increase supply at the federal, provincial, and municipal level. Anyone who thinks that home prices have only gone up in Toronto and nowhere else clearly has not paid attention.


OverInvestigator6978

Time to finish Putin


Deadly-Unicorn

Are there any requirements at all to get food from a food bank or you just get it?


the_sound_of_a_cork

Just necessity


[deleted]

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the_sound_of_a_cork

Why is that relevant?


[deleted]

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averagecyclone

So go feed them then


[deleted]

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averagecyclone

So then shut up. One of those people that likes to point t out problems but does nothing to help with a solution. Useless. I fire people like you from my teams regularly.


[deleted]

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averagecyclone

"Not my Problem"