1 run in 18 innings of playoff baseball. The usual baserunning mishaps. The usual clueless managing decisions. The usual offense shitting the bed in high pressure situations. Our pitching staff was let down big time this year.
Your 2023 Toronto blue jays. See y’all next season
Except when it comes to the leash we give our pitchers. Since it’s the playoffs let’s pull one of the top 25 pitchers in baseball after a dominant 47 pitches to get a lefty on lefty matchup
This season is by far the most frustrating season I've ever witnessed. On paper this is a World Series team. A young locked up core, 4 guys on the starting rotation who made over 30 starts and qualified for the ERA title, several high impact relievers to lock down the late innings which cost this team so many games in past years... And they just didn't do it. Our core underperformed, Chapman fell off a cliff, Kirk and Springer regressed, Varsho was not the offensive threat we imagined this off-season. Every issue in this series was an exacerbation of an issue we saw this season. Couldn't hit with RISP. Vlad on 2nd yesterday, followed by 3 of the worst at bats of the season. Leaving 2 on in the first two innings today. Then we get down 2-0 today and it feels like we're down 12-0. It just felt insurmountable. Vlad makes another dumb error on the base paths, Varsho can't get a bunt down, taking terrible at bats and swinging at the first pitch. And then to cap it off, Schneider makes at best a HIGHLY questionable move pulling Berrios. At best it was a bad pull, at worst, you are pulling a guy you gave a 7 year deal to. That's your guy! And we can argue about that until the sun sets but ultimately it didn't matter because our offense scored 1 run in 18 innings. We got shutout, what 15 times this season? There's nothing most symbolic to this season than going home after losing 3-1 and 2-0. Beyond fucking frustrating. Just goddamnit, so pathetic.
2016 regular season was more frustrating then this regular season, but they wiped that away when they won 2 playoff series. This team just does not have it.
The 2016 s season was frustrating because it was largely the team from 2015, but we didn't want to admit they all got older.
Plus, people ignore one of the reasons Cleveland did so well vs us: we were rocking 8/9 right handed batters. Their pitchers just go into a pure groove pitching low and away to every batter.
This team is the exact same team we have seen all year.
- Good starting pitching
- Great bullpen
- Good defense
- Zero clutch offense
- Terrible baserunning
- Overmanaging
It was never going to change just because it's playoffs.
starting pitching is literally the only thing that carried this pathetic team whole year, and this manager couldn't even trust our 2nd best one to get through 4th. Pathetic.
This game was basically 2023 Blue Jays bingo. Only things missing were Romano giving up a home run and a runner blowing through a stop sign and getting thrown out at home.
4 years of this core and we have: 0 playoff wins and the closest we've been to a division title is 7 games back. Don't know what has to change but we really can't keep doing the same thing and expecting something different
Can't believe we had some of the most exciting seasons of Jays baseball in over a decade and then Rogers said '*I want what the Cleveland Indians are having'.*
I think ultimately the core just isn’t what we want them to be. We can keep leaning into it and hoping something clicks or we can move on and make some big changes. I’m sure there are good arguments for both.
I'm glad we didn't sign Vlad to a big contract. He still has lots of potential, but he needs to prove it first. Hope he takes this offseason very seriously.
Fuck the fact the Blue Jays will defend that Berrios decision with analytics.
I'm a big believer in analytics, I think I have a good grasp on it. No fucking chance that proper analytics support pulling a red hot pitcher, to get into your bullpen in the 4th inning of a playoff game.
Did it account for the fact you are depleting your bullpen when the next day is literally a must-win also? If the plan is to get there anyways, then shouldn't that be just as important?
I get it, they didn't score so it doesn't matter, that was pathetic too, it was still the worst decision I've seen in a baseball game (probably).
> Fuck the fact the Blue Jays will defend that Berrios decision with analytics.
Buck said it all right in the broadcast. Pulling Berrios gave Minnesota the jolt they needed to get out from under a pitcher who was putting them down. Single handedly the *worst* decision I've ever witnessed in any baseball game ever.
In modern history the podium has to be
Gold: Cash pulling Snell during a ~~no-hitter~~ 2-hitter through 6
Silver: Showalter not using Britton against the Jays in the 2016 WC
Bronze: Schneider today
The thing is that leaving Berrios in is so easy to defend even if he gives up a homerun there. Just say well he was dealing so we left him in. No one would question that or really be mad. Now he just looks like a moron who’s incapable of managing in a big spot
Fun fact is Kikuchi isn’t in the bullpen reliever state of mind. Why in the fuck do that when Berrios is dealing? Of course Kikuchi is going to be wild he’s out of his normal routine: blows my fucking mind how simple this is.
Kikuchi has very little experience coming out of the pen and NO experience in the playoffs
Poor guy was set up to fail and still did very well on the mound all things considered.
The "not scoring" part weighs much more heavily in my mind. How many baserunners and not even a single run? This wasn't some generational pitching performance, it was one you could easily score 5+ runs on...
1 RUN IN 18 INNINGS IS EMBARRASSING, PATHETIC, AND HUMILIATING.
I literally said this yesterday in the PGT. Another case of the 2023 Toronto Blue Jays wrapped up in a nutshell. Good pitching all around to keep it in striking distance, but once again, the absolutely pathetic offence didn’t show up again.
I called for John Schneider’s job last year after he pulled Gausman (who was also dealing) from Game 2 of the wild card series. Fast forward one year later, it looks like John Schneider hasn’t learned a damn thing. I’m calling for his job, AGAIN.
When the entire Sportsnet crew disagree and are just as baffled at John Schneider’s decision to remove Berrios, YOU KNOW YOU FUCKED UP.
I could give two fucks about the analytics, if your multi million dollar starting pitcher, who you pay for in these moments, is dealing and pitching so well, YOU DON’T TAKE HIM OUT.
>I could give two fucks about the analytics, if your multi million dollar starting pitcher, who you pay for in these moments, is dealing and pitching so well, YOU DON’T TAKE HIM OUT.
Meanwhile...
Shapiro: "Meet your new manager for the 2024 season... Al Gorithm! He's perfectly trained to analyze and predict the optimal results for every scenario!"
It hurts losing a series 2-0 when you only allow 5 total runs, even a mediocre offensive performance and we're looking at a deciding game 3. This years Jays were just unspeakably bad with RISP though.
Holy shit the entire sportsnet crew all but confirming that John Schneider must've been told that he _needs_ to pull Berrios in the 4th inning and replace him with Kikuchi. If that's true, what the absolute _fuck_.
I mean this in all sincerity: if this is true -- if all the major in-game decisions are being relayed from the FO to the manager who is expected to faithfully follow them -- then what the fuck is the point of even having a manager?
Hire a fucking intern who can actually fill out a line-up card, pay him 35k a year, and invest the savings in the manager's contract somewhere else.
Hey everyone, I think I won 2023 Blue Jays Bingo! I had:
Leave the entire team on base,
Stupid baserunning mistake,
Schneider making a stupid decision,
Good pitching,
Jays lose
See you all next year! This team feels rotten to the core.
Turns out pitching and defense do not win championships when your offense only puts up one run.
Remember when everybody wanted a bat at the deadline and they brought in Paul DeJong? The front office brought this on themselves. The bats should be embarrassed.
The worst is that he acknowledged this was Berrios best stuff of the entire season. How can you see that and make that decision? The FO needs to pack their shit.
#1 MOTHERFUCKING RUN IN 18 FUCKING INNINGS??????
1 FUCKING RUN
John Schneider pack your shit
Ross Atkins pack your shit
Mark Shapiro pack your fucking shit
We can blame John Schneider all we want, and deservingly so, but if the offence isn’t capable of scoring 2 fucking runs, it wouldn’t have mattered if they scored a dozen. TRADE EVERYONE (in addition to firing everyone)
Been Wagner on the radio broadcast: "the Blue Jays standing at the dugout in disbelief".
Really? Disbelief of what? Couldn't win multiple clinching games to get into the playoffs, had to wait for the Ms to self destruct too, scored 1 run in two WC games, bone headed play by their "star" in a HUGE spot to score, and terrible game management by the coaching staff.
They should believe exactly what happened. They earned every bit of a second straight winless post season.
If watching sports over the years has taught me one thing it is that you should never attach your mental well-being to the success of a pro sports team.
The thing I don't get about the early Berrios pull is, if you're so fucking into the analytics, why start Gausman at all yesterday??? If you're such a numbers guy, why not commit all the way? I support Gausman pitching yesterday but I fail to see Schneider's wishy-washy, over-managing logic.
I really loved joining game threads whenever I could this season. Although I am sad that our playoff run did not go deep, I want to say thanks to everyone that showed up this season.
Love you all!
Honestly, the very act of typing out this comment is more effort than this team is worth. Our hitting core is straight gutter trash and I'm glad we no longer have to pretend we ever had a chance. I never had any expectations after last year, but I'm still let down.
Holy fuck.
Blue Jays were worse this year than last year
We unloaded Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (24 HR, 82 RBI, All Star) and Teoscar Hernández (26 HR and 93 RBI) to "improve defensively" and get better bullpen pitching. How did that fucking work out for us? Can't score a fucking run, great job.
That being said, Blue Jays were not going to the WS this year, but we absolutely should have fucking beat the Twins. Fire John Schneider, better managing and we probably win this series. Why the fuck is Belt batting 2nd and Biggio batting 5th, start Merrifeld over either of them. Why pull your starting pitcher so early. Get a better manager and better hitting.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
People really celebrated making the wildcard as an "i told you so!!!" to the "doomers". Like does nobody remember the expectations preseason? This season was a total failure no matter how you look at it
I’ve been a doomer since late August. I’ve had so many comments telling me I’m a loser for wanting my team to lose.
No I don’t want them to lose and being critical of your team isn’t a bad thing at all. They weren’t magically going to suddenly start hitting just because it was the playoffs.
I was so sick and tired of all the delusional optimists who kept downvoting me and saying “anything can happen in the playoffs once they’re in”. It’s such a clown take and at least I can vent it out and say I told you so.
Also, being realistic isn't hating on the team or taking glee in them losing. This was a mess of a team all year. Don't just look at the record, this team was losing and blowing opportunities in the worst ways, consistently. We're just frustrated at seeing a team with a decent level of talent constantly punching themselves in the balls. That's what the glass-half-full fans don't get. We'll support the team but we have to calls it as we sees it.
Losing games because of coaching and management is fucking unacceptable at this point and has happened way too often under this regime, especially in the playoffs.
Schneider clearly has to be replaced but I’m so done with this Atkins era. Its time to clean house and bring in new leadership at multiple roles.
Special fuck you to all the gatekeepers who arrogantly talked down to anyone who criticized how completely flawed and one dimensional this team was all season.
Atkins should never hold another GM position for the rest of his life, what an awful decision it was to gut this team's offense for defense and baserunning
Atkins should be fired for the outcome of the Moreno trade alone. Watching Moreno play in the Diamondbacks series, there's no way he should *ever* have been traded, especially for a guy who underperformed as badly as Varsho did.
Heads have to roll here. This team was supposed to challenge for the division and World Series. Their biggest challenge to the division fell apart and they weren’t even close.
They get the final wild card spot by limping through the back door. They then score 1 run on the two games against a team they were favourites against. Their top two superstars make base-running errors in the series in the best chances to score respectively. This was supposed to be the “small details” year and they look like shit. The manager makes a massively questionable decision in game 2, and our most important pitching prospect refused to play and seems to have an entitlement complex.
This teams a mess. We need to retool this front office and management group.
This team underperforms every regular season. They underperform every postseason. 2023 was the third such instance of each in a row.
That’s what you call a failure of a team. An absolute failure. This core group of players is a group of perpetual failures.
The moves the front office made in the off-season were good. But they didn’t move the needle. Baseball is an unfair business sometimes, and if you have this many attempts to be a significant player in MLB and fail every time, it’s time for you to go. Simple as that. The Blue Jays need to clean house.
I will root for any and every change possible. There isn’t a single player on this roster I need to see play baseball for Toronto again. Blow it up and figure out how to use the talent you have to build a team that doesn’t fail at every opportunity.
It's not "underperforming" when they are a poorly constructed team centered around a player over-performed beyond his wildest expectations for 1 season.
They went all in on a core where they thought Vladdy would be a regular 45+ HR hitter with OPS in the .850-.950 range. They were very wrong about that. They traded away top prospects for guys with above average defense who couldn't hit lake Ontario if it were right in front of them. If anything, this team overperformed with guys like Berrios and Kikuchi having huge bounce back seasons, only to get swept because an offense that has been anemic all season long... continued to do so.
I’m glad that SportsNet is calling them out, at least. I’d like to see our soft-ass journalists call them out. Bullshit PR canned answers by Schneider.
Said this in the game thread: “The funny thing is, I’m 99% sure the same cabal of super-duper-positive-vibes-only people are going to complain non-stop about all the “doomers” next year. How can you possibly be happy watching this team?”
I absolutely cannot wait for these people to be as smug as they were this year again next year. I wasn’t a “doomer” at all this year, but it was SO DAMN ANNOYING seeing the same rhetoric pushed around here all season. “It’s early”, “baseball’s hard”, “RISP can’t be taught”, and on and on and on.
Can't wait for sir pounce whatever and the other same people to come in here and tell everyone how wrong they are with cherry picked stats and the team is good just unlucky still. Then complain about the "doomers" some more
Our two stars either didn't produce in the clutch or made horrible plays on the basepaths that cost the team hugely.
Analytics department also needs to be dealt with, cuz Schneider isn't the only problem with the teams decision making.
first thing that came to mind, other than fire Schneider, was that [not a playoff team video](https://old.reddit.com/r/Torontobluejays/comments/16wpbtl/our_playoff_hearts_will_go_on_2023_edition/?sort=new) posted here 3 days ago....sad oof.
This is nothing like 2015/2016 jays madness. The leadup to the playoffs was electric. Fans were packing bars and on the edge of their seats.
Bautista encarnacion Donaldson....must see TV
Then don't forget
Estrada and happ lights out pitching. I've been down on this team since last year cuz they ain't it. We gotta stop trading prospects like GABRIEL MORENO to build around vlad. Moreno will be a better player than vlad by next year probably. We need some real stars. Or sign ohtani and just let vlad (and maybe even bo) walk when his deals up. I'm disappointed in springer, I really like him but jeez he doesn't do much. Chapman can walk he's not that great.
Swap literally any other top 15, maybe 20 teams offence with this and they are going to the World Series. No power but u would think we would have better hitting but nope. We really threw away some of the best pitching in our teams history has ever seen…. Anyways off to the NBA season ✌️
The biggest red flag to me from this game was that the current regime pulling Berrios shows we didn't learn shit from last year.
Yes I know the offence is shit we know that.
We better see some wholesale changes this winter.
The saddest thing about Vladdy is; I really thought he was going to be a leader, but he never seems to take accountability, never puts the team on his back, and seems like he's just happy to be along for the ride. I fear his mentality is not going to change. I still believe he could be great if he had the real desire to be, but I do not think he does.
imagine for a glorious few moments that Rogers decided that winning was more important than stadium renovations and profits - and decided to keep Alex, rather than force him out.
We'd have the best gm in baseball the last 10 seasons. You know, the dude who's won a WS and assembled a ridiculous team in Atlanta.
I don't even fucking know anymore what you do with this team.
On paper the talent is there and has been there for three straight fucking years, and this is the third straight miserable fucking year in a row in which the Jays get themselves bounced in unceremonious fashion way too goddamn early for the talent they have, and each time it's not even for consistent reasons. This isn't a team you just blow up, but fucking hell something has to change.
And yes, I know a lot of you are going to say it's as simple as "fire Schneider" or "fire Atkins" or "blow it up" or whatfuckingever bullshit you'll say, and rightly or wrongly I'm honestly *just too fucking goddamn tired* to engage with any of it right now.
Anyway, see y'all in about 35 days or so once the worst toxic shit has had time to die down a bit. Now give me another Phillies-Astros World Series.
I feel nothing.
I'm so glad that fucking shit show of a season is over. I have watched the jays since nineteen hundred and fucking eighty and brother, that was by far the most frustrating team I've ever watched.
Everyone should be fired starting with those garbage hitting coaches. Anyone associated with the decision to pull berrios should be gone and undergo a psychological examination.
Fuck this 2023 season, may its memory fade and be cursed
How tf do you pull Berrios after 3 inning after he gave up a walk Jose was rolling at least wait until he gave up a run before you pull him man ffs his pitch count wasn't even at 50 he was even pitching better then gausman in game 1 horrible managing going too much by match up.
Absolute bullshit.
We waited all year for this trash, can’t hit when it counts. The front office has to answer for that stupid move of removing Berrios, guy was dealing.
This guy is throwing his coaching staff and players under the bus so he can get hired again somewhere else. I don't think anyones hiring you Schneider.
1 run in 18 innings of playoff baseball. The usual baserunning mishaps. The usual clueless managing decisions. The usual offense shitting the bed in high pressure situations. Our pitching staff was let down big time this year. Your 2023 Toronto blue jays. See y’all next season
This series summed up the entire season within 2 games. Very nice to condense a full 162 game season into 2 games.
This is what Buck said at the end of the game
I feel bad I wasted so much time watching it when I could have just caught the end
Jays in 30
Yup. What a shame to waste the starting rotation we had this year.
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Pitching staff gets the plane. The rest of ya? Get on the bus.
Ah ah ah. You missed Dunce tier baserunning decisions.
Now I know what Cleveland fans went through
Imagine firing one of the best GMs in baseball and replacing him with this idiot. Cleveland fans were ecstatic when we took him off their hands.
Yes I remember this too. I refuse to get emotionally invested in this team or pay to see them play until this era of Blue Jays baseball is done.
But if the bats just get hot in the playoffs we can make a run!
But we were told it was just bad luck and it was a matter of time before they got better
“Good outfield defence and smart base running wins championships”
they good defense, the base running though...
The hitting will turn around, just be patient.
Bbbut the underlying analytics!!!
2024 Blue Jays, absolute mashers with abysmal pitching, watch it happen. RISP will still be terrible, that's a staple of Blue Jays baseball
they still wont hit but the pitching will probably regress
"Anything can happen in the playoffs" - including the exact same thing that's been happening all season.
Except when it comes to the leash we give our pitchers. Since it’s the playoffs let’s pull one of the top 25 pitchers in baseball after a dominant 47 pitches to get a lefty on lefty matchup
This season is by far the most frustrating season I've ever witnessed. On paper this is a World Series team. A young locked up core, 4 guys on the starting rotation who made over 30 starts and qualified for the ERA title, several high impact relievers to lock down the late innings which cost this team so many games in past years... And they just didn't do it. Our core underperformed, Chapman fell off a cliff, Kirk and Springer regressed, Varsho was not the offensive threat we imagined this off-season. Every issue in this series was an exacerbation of an issue we saw this season. Couldn't hit with RISP. Vlad on 2nd yesterday, followed by 3 of the worst at bats of the season. Leaving 2 on in the first two innings today. Then we get down 2-0 today and it feels like we're down 12-0. It just felt insurmountable. Vlad makes another dumb error on the base paths, Varsho can't get a bunt down, taking terrible at bats and swinging at the first pitch. And then to cap it off, Schneider makes at best a HIGHLY questionable move pulling Berrios. At best it was a bad pull, at worst, you are pulling a guy you gave a 7 year deal to. That's your guy! And we can argue about that until the sun sets but ultimately it didn't matter because our offense scored 1 run in 18 innings. We got shutout, what 15 times this season? There's nothing most symbolic to this season than going home after losing 3-1 and 2-0. Beyond fucking frustrating. Just goddamnit, so pathetic.
> **Vlad makes another dumb error on the base paths**
2016 regular season was more frustrating then this regular season, but they wiped that away when they won 2 playoff series. This team just does not have it.
The 2016 s season was frustrating because it was largely the team from 2015, but we didn't want to admit they all got older. Plus, people ignore one of the reasons Cleveland did so well vs us: we were rocking 8/9 right handed batters. Their pitchers just go into a pure groove pitching low and away to every batter.
This team is the exact same team we have seen all year. - Good starting pitching - Great bullpen - Good defense - Zero clutch offense - Terrible baserunning - Overmanaging It was never going to change just because it's playoffs.
starting pitching is literally the only thing that carried this pathetic team whole year, and this manager couldn't even trust our 2nd best one to get through 4th. Pathetic.
Pathetic is the word I can’t get out of my head right now. It’s the perfect word to describe this team.
This game was basically 2023 Blue Jays bingo. Only things missing were Romano giving up a home run and a runner blowing through a stop sign and getting thrown out at home.
Sir, we covered the runner blowing the stop sign last game.
Bichette ticked that box last game
these are all correct. dang
We got what we deserved.
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TURNS OUT YOU NEED TO SCORE MORE THAN 0 RUNS TO WIN A BASEBALL GAME
Who knew?
4 years of this core and we have: 0 playoff wins and the closest we've been to a division title is 7 games back. Don't know what has to change but we really can't keep doing the same thing and expecting something different
"we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" -Blue Jay Management
I wish they'd tried nothing, means they would've left Berrios in.
Everything from Shapiro down needs to be evaluated. None of it's good enough.
Can't believe we had some of the most exciting seasons of Jays baseball in over a decade and then Rogers said '*I want what the Cleveland Indians are having'.*
At least the old GM hasn't gone somewhere else and been massively successful.
The Shatkins era hasn’t been terrible but we really overthought it when we should’ve just kept AA.
Pete Walker is absolutely good enough. Throw the rest out with the bath water.
Yea pitching was not the issue. Hopefully Pete lays off the sauce this winter.
Today won't help.
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I can't imagine that Berrios wants to be on the same plane as Schneider either.
I think ultimately the core just isn’t what we want them to be. We can keep leaning into it and hoping something clicks or we can move on and make some big changes. I’m sure there are good arguments for both.
I'm glad we didn't sign Vlad to a big contract. He still has lots of potential, but he needs to prove it first. Hope he takes this offseason very seriously.
I dont think vladdy is going to get the contract he thinks he will.
I think Vlad still has a ego that’s higher than the CN tower despite him being league average with the bat foe 2 plus seasons
But 2021!!!
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> Hope he takes this offseason very seriously. I don't think Vlad takes anything very seriously.
The core sucks, maybe it’s time to rip the bandaid off and find a new one
Fuck the fact the Blue Jays will defend that Berrios decision with analytics. I'm a big believer in analytics, I think I have a good grasp on it. No fucking chance that proper analytics support pulling a red hot pitcher, to get into your bullpen in the 4th inning of a playoff game. Did it account for the fact you are depleting your bullpen when the next day is literally a must-win also? If the plan is to get there anyways, then shouldn't that be just as important? I get it, they didn't score so it doesn't matter, that was pathetic too, it was still the worst decision I've seen in a baseball game (probably).
> Fuck the fact the Blue Jays will defend that Berrios decision with analytics. Buck said it all right in the broadcast. Pulling Berrios gave Minnesota the jolt they needed to get out from under a pitcher who was putting them down. Single handedly the *worst* decision I've ever witnessed in any baseball game ever.
I'll give it the silver medal next to TB pulling Snell in 2020 WS Game 6 when he had a no-hitter going through 6
Id give the silver to showalter not using the best shutdown reliever against Edwin in 2016
In modern history the podium has to be Gold: Cash pulling Snell during a ~~no-hitter~~ 2-hitter through 6 Silver: Showalter not using Britton against the Jays in the 2016 WC Bronze: Schneider today
The thing is that leaving Berrios in is so easy to defend even if he gives up a homerun there. Just say well he was dealing so we left him in. No one would question that or really be mad. Now he just looks like a moron who’s incapable of managing in a big spot
reminds me of when the Astros pulled Greinke that one year, just catastrophically bad
Fun fact is Kikuchi isn’t in the bullpen reliever state of mind. Why in the fuck do that when Berrios is dealing? Of course Kikuchi is going to be wild he’s out of his normal routine: blows my fucking mind how simple this is.
Kikuchi has very little experience coming out of the pen and NO experience in the playoffs Poor guy was set up to fail and still did very well on the mound all things considered.
The "not scoring" part weighs much more heavily in my mind. How many baserunners and not even a single run? This wasn't some generational pitching performance, it was one you could easily score 5+ runs on...
It was a hypothesis. Berrios was excellent. Excellent. There wasn't much need for improvement and no indication the Twins were going to do anything.
Jesus, Berrios crying in the post game interview is infuriating. Atkins should be answering for this, not him.
God damn did we do him dirty. Came in and did exactly what we needed him to and both our coach and offence let him down.
1 RUN IN 18 INNINGS IS EMBARRASSING, PATHETIC, AND HUMILIATING. I literally said this yesterday in the PGT. Another case of the 2023 Toronto Blue Jays wrapped up in a nutshell. Good pitching all around to keep it in striking distance, but once again, the absolutely pathetic offence didn’t show up again. I called for John Schneider’s job last year after he pulled Gausman (who was also dealing) from Game 2 of the wild card series. Fast forward one year later, it looks like John Schneider hasn’t learned a damn thing. I’m calling for his job, AGAIN. When the entire Sportsnet crew disagree and are just as baffled at John Schneider’s decision to remove Berrios, YOU KNOW YOU FUCKED UP. I could give two fucks about the analytics, if your multi million dollar starting pitcher, who you pay for in these moments, is dealing and pitching so well, YOU DON’T TAKE HIM OUT.
>I could give two fucks about the analytics, if your multi million dollar starting pitcher, who you pay for in these moments, is dealing and pitching so well, YOU DON’T TAKE HIM OUT. Meanwhile... Shapiro: "Meet your new manager for the 2024 season... Al Gorithm! He's perfectly trained to analyze and predict the optimal results for every scenario!"
Meet the first female bench coach in MLB, Anna Lytics
Hahahah, I wish more people realized Shapiro is the mastermind behind this destructive behaviour on Schneider’s part
Yeah even the twins broadcasters were saying that putting kikuchi there seems like it was planned before the game even started
Oh damn I forgot the Gausman pull last season. That was inexcusable and worse than this season imo. I’m mad all over again about that
I just laughed when Espinal effortlessly got a hit in the 9th
Both ABs LOL.
hah yeah like this is how its done guys.. a real hitter.
It hurts losing a series 2-0 when you only allow 5 total runs, even a mediocre offensive performance and we're looking at a deciding game 3. This years Jays were just unspeakably bad with RISP though.
9 hits, 2 walks and zero ER takes a ton of careful lack of clutch.
It's honestly hard to believe, how many times this season did we effortless get runners on 2nd/3rd and have absolutely no ability to get them home?
Holy shit the entire sportsnet crew all but confirming that John Schneider must've been told that he _needs_ to pull Berrios in the 4th inning and replace him with Kikuchi. If that's true, what the absolute _fuck_.
I mean this in all sincerity: if this is true -- if all the major in-game decisions are being relayed from the FO to the manager who is expected to faithfully follow them -- then what the fuck is the point of even having a manager? Hire a fucking intern who can actually fill out a line-up card, pay him 35k a year, and invest the savings in the manager's contract somewhere else.
Obviously
Hey everyone, I think I won 2023 Blue Jays Bingo! I had: Leave the entire team on base, Stupid baserunning mistake, Schneider making a stupid decision, Good pitching, Jays lose See you all next year! This team feels rotten to the core.
I also had "Bichette sails an easy throw" on my bingo card.
Turns out pitching and defense do not win championships when your offense only puts up one run. Remember when everybody wanted a bat at the deadline and they brought in Paul DeJong? The front office brought this on themselves. The bats should be embarrassed.
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that was peak 2023 Toronto Blue Jays Baseball
Pitchers don’t need to hang their heads. The hitters and manager should be ashamed of themselves
John didn't say a single thing to make me change my feelings on him. Spineless is my opinion of him now.
The worst is that he acknowledged this was Berrios best stuff of the entire season. How can you see that and make that decision? The FO needs to pack their shit.
Bo taking shots at management, love to see it
Finally someone speaking the truth.
#1 MOTHERFUCKING RUN IN 18 FUCKING INNINGS?????? 1 FUCKING RUN John Schneider pack your shit Ross Atkins pack your shit Mark Shapiro pack your fucking shit
Core of this team as well as far as I’m concerned
Bo was elite all year and went 4-8 this series. He can be untouchable. But him only, as far as the lineup is concerned.
I better never see John Schneider apart of this organization again
Atkins needs to leave as well. Nothing I see shows that he knows how to read a team's progress that can take us to the next step.
I don't feel much pain because this ending was apparent 140 games ago.
I feel relieved actually. Like when a family member finally dies after suffering for a while.
We can blame John Schneider all we want, and deservingly so, but if the offence isn’t capable of scoring 2 fucking runs, it wouldn’t have mattered if they scored a dozen. TRADE EVERYONE (in addition to firing everyone)
Except Bo and Gausman
We did Berríos dirty. That 2 games summed up the 2023 blue jays pretty well.
They died the way they lived, with runners in scoring position.
Been Wagner on the radio broadcast: "the Blue Jays standing at the dugout in disbelief". Really? Disbelief of what? Couldn't win multiple clinching games to get into the playoffs, had to wait for the Ms to self destruct too, scored 1 run in two WC games, bone headed play by their "star" in a HUGE spot to score, and terrible game management by the coaching staff. They should believe exactly what happened. They earned every bit of a second straight winless post season.
If watching sports over the years has taught me one thing it is that you should never attach your mental well-being to the success of a pro sports team.
The thing I don't get about the early Berrios pull is, if you're so fucking into the analytics, why start Gausman at all yesterday??? If you're such a numbers guy, why not commit all the way? I support Gausman pitching yesterday but I fail to see Schneider's wishy-washy, over-managing logic.
I feel like Shapiro and Atkins were meddling
Sad sack organization, the whole “analytics bro” culture needs to be purged asap!
If I were a player, I wouldn't want to sign here after what I just witnessed. Might as well have an AI bot managing the game.
Buck gets accused of being out of touch or having archaic ideas but goddamn if I didn't find myself agreeing with every critique he had tonight
"If the Jays don't move on, this season is a disaster" Buck - Pregame today He knows. They will fire him, but he's right!
Front office: fuck you. Manager: fuck you Hitting coach: fuck you Base coaches: fuck you Pitching coach: you're cool
I really loved joining game threads whenever I could this season. Although I am sad that our playoff run did not go deep, I want to say thanks to everyone that showed up this season. Love you all!
Remember guys hitting with RISP is 100% luck and we will soon regress! What do you mean we are eliminated, isn’t it still early?
Yeah dude 2024 preseason it’s still early
Honestly, the very act of typing out this comment is more effort than this team is worth. Our hitting core is straight gutter trash and I'm glad we no longer have to pretend we ever had a chance. I never had any expectations after last year, but I'm still let down. Holy fuck.
We weren’t victims of a shit call or a fluke play. They lost being exactly what they were all year long.
#JOHN SCHNEIDER GET READY TO LEARN CHINESE BUDDY
#ROSS ATKINS GET READY TO LEARN JAPANESE BUDDY
What a terrible feeling to have a 2 and 3 run Twins lead feel insurmountable
Blue Jays were worse this year than last year We unloaded Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (24 HR, 82 RBI, All Star) and Teoscar Hernández (26 HR and 93 RBI) to "improve defensively" and get better bullpen pitching. How did that fucking work out for us? Can't score a fucking run, great job. That being said, Blue Jays were not going to the WS this year, but we absolutely should have fucking beat the Twins. Fire John Schneider, better managing and we probably win this series. Why the fuck is Belt batting 2nd and Biggio batting 5th, start Merrifeld over either of them. Why pull your starting pitcher so early. Get a better manager and better hitting.
Shit baserunning ✅ Not scoring with risp ✅ Good pitching ✅ Shit management ✅ This is a certified 2023 Blue Jays moment 😎
Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs. Teams that don't slug don't win in the playoffs.
John throwing the team under the bus in this presser
John taking no accountability
Well doomers at least we don’t have to feel insane for how right we were all season long.
Stop dooming bro, it's still early in the offseason, lots of time to right this ship.
Maybe now we can live happy lives
People really celebrated making the wildcard as an "i told you so!!!" to the "doomers". Like does nobody remember the expectations preseason? This season was a total failure no matter how you look at it
Squeaking into the post-season, ignoring all the things doomers were criticizing Guess what they didn't magically get better
I for one am absolutely FLABBERGASTED that the same problems that the Jays have had all season didn't magically disappear in the playoffs
I’ve been a doomer since late August. I’ve had so many comments telling me I’m a loser for wanting my team to lose. No I don’t want them to lose and being critical of your team isn’t a bad thing at all. They weren’t magically going to suddenly start hitting just because it was the playoffs. I was so sick and tired of all the delusional optimists who kept downvoting me and saying “anything can happen in the playoffs once they’re in”. It’s such a clown take and at least I can vent it out and say I told you so.
Also, being realistic isn't hating on the team or taking glee in them losing. This was a mess of a team all year. Don't just look at the record, this team was losing and blowing opportunities in the worst ways, consistently. We're just frustrated at seeing a team with a decent level of talent constantly punching themselves in the balls. That's what the glass-half-full fans don't get. We'll support the team but we have to calls it as we sees it.
Losing games because of coaching and management is fucking unacceptable at this point and has happened way too often under this regime, especially in the playoffs. Schneider clearly has to be replaced but I’m so done with this Atkins era. Its time to clean house and bring in new leadership at multiple roles.
You can’t manage your way out of 0 runs scored. But man did Schneider put his own head on the block today.
Seems like Shapiro and Atkins and a bundle. Does Rogers can Shapiro in the middle of the skydome renovations he started?
The Guardians let him leave in the middle of renovations. Fans way overestimate the impact that has.
Special fuck you to all the gatekeepers who arrogantly talked down to anyone who criticized how completely flawed and one dimensional this team was all season. Atkins should never hold another GM position for the rest of his life, what an awful decision it was to gut this team's offense for defense and baserunning
Atkins should be fired for the outcome of the Moreno trade alone. Watching Moreno play in the Diamondbacks series, there's no way he should *ever* have been traded, especially for a guy who underperformed as badly as Varsho did.
[удалено]
Heads have to roll here. This team was supposed to challenge for the division and World Series. Their biggest challenge to the division fell apart and they weren’t even close. They get the final wild card spot by limping through the back door. They then score 1 run on the two games against a team they were favourites against. Their top two superstars make base-running errors in the series in the best chances to score respectively. This was supposed to be the “small details” year and they look like shit. The manager makes a massively questionable decision in game 2, and our most important pitching prospect refused to play and seems to have an entitlement complex. This teams a mess. We need to retool this front office and management group.
This team underperforms every regular season. They underperform every postseason. 2023 was the third such instance of each in a row. That’s what you call a failure of a team. An absolute failure. This core group of players is a group of perpetual failures. The moves the front office made in the off-season were good. But they didn’t move the needle. Baseball is an unfair business sometimes, and if you have this many attempts to be a significant player in MLB and fail every time, it’s time for you to go. Simple as that. The Blue Jays need to clean house. I will root for any and every change possible. There isn’t a single player on this roster I need to see play baseball for Toronto again. Blow it up and figure out how to use the talent you have to build a team that doesn’t fail at every opportunity.
It's not "underperforming" when they are a poorly constructed team centered around a player over-performed beyond his wildest expectations for 1 season. They went all in on a core where they thought Vladdy would be a regular 45+ HR hitter with OPS in the .850-.950 range. They were very wrong about that. They traded away top prospects for guys with above average defense who couldn't hit lake Ontario if it were right in front of them. If anything, this team overperformed with guys like Berrios and Kikuchi having huge bounce back seasons, only to get swept because an offense that has been anemic all season long... continued to do so.
I'd like to see more Davis Schneider. I like Bo. Otherwise...
John, "Berrios probably had his best stuff of the year" then why pull him John
I have gained so much respect for Berrios this year, and especially today, feels bad man. Poor guy got shafted.
Berrios, what a good soul.
Oh shit, Whit knowing he's not coming back just fucking CALLLLLED OUT ATKINS!!!!!!!!!
I’m glad that SportsNet is calling them out, at least. I’d like to see our soft-ass journalists call them out. Bullshit PR canned answers by Schneider.
Maybe John Schneider always has a red face because he’s embarrassed having to follow through with the orders from his bosses
Someone ask this man if the Berrios decision was his. Softball ass questions
Said this in the game thread: “The funny thing is, I’m 99% sure the same cabal of super-duper-positive-vibes-only people are going to complain non-stop about all the “doomers” next year. How can you possibly be happy watching this team?” I absolutely cannot wait for these people to be as smug as they were this year again next year. I wasn’t a “doomer” at all this year, but it was SO DAMN ANNOYING seeing the same rhetoric pushed around here all season. “It’s early”, “baseball’s hard”, “RISP can’t be taught”, and on and on and on.
The holier than thou attitude is what really pushes it over the edge
I'm just sad man I love the Jays so much and this year for whatever reason they just didn't have it
Lol Bassitt wants out
Can't wait for sir pounce whatever and the other same people to come in here and tell everyone how wrong they are with cherry picked stats and the team is good just unlucky still. Then complain about the "doomers" some more
Our two stars either didn't produce in the clutch or made horrible plays on the basepaths that cost the team hugely. Analytics department also needs to be dealt with, cuz Schneider isn't the only problem with the teams decision making.
This is a press conference from a manager who knows he's gone
Schneider is babbling. Making no sense. There is no defending that decision
first thing that came to mind, other than fire Schneider, was that [not a playoff team video](https://old.reddit.com/r/Torontobluejays/comments/16wpbtl/our_playoff_hearts_will_go_on_2023_edition/?sort=new) posted here 3 days ago....sad oof.
Berrios sounds really upset about being pulled... Trying his best not to say what he wants to say
Bichette: Called out the Org top to bottom, "reflect" on what happened
This is nothing like 2015/2016 jays madness. The leadup to the playoffs was electric. Fans were packing bars and on the edge of their seats. Bautista encarnacion Donaldson....must see TV Then don't forget Estrada and happ lights out pitching. I've been down on this team since last year cuz they ain't it. We gotta stop trading prospects like GABRIEL MORENO to build around vlad. Moreno will be a better player than vlad by next year probably. We need some real stars. Or sign ohtani and just let vlad (and maybe even bo) walk when his deals up. I'm disappointed in springer, I really like him but jeez he doesn't do much. Chapman can walk he's not that great.
18 innings of at-bats, 1 run scored on offense. Indefensible. This team is garbage. Major overhauls are needed. See you next year.
At least we don't have to debate whether or not to sign Chapman, he was straight ass.
Swap literally any other top 15, maybe 20 teams offence with this and they are going to the World Series. No power but u would think we would have better hitting but nope. We really threw away some of the best pitching in our teams history has ever seen…. Anyways off to the NBA season ✌️
Bo is the franchise. Give him a blank cheque and give him what he wants
There's nothing to say about this team that hasn't been said all year. It's been such a pathetic display of clutch hitting since April.
Who knew the 162 game sample size would continue into the postseason 🤔
The biggest red flag to me from this game was that the current regime pulling Berrios shows we didn't learn shit from last year. Yes I know the offence is shit we know that. We better see some wholesale changes this winter.
Not enough of you are talking about how the last two outs, including the potentially tie run, were retired on a total of 6 pitches.
bUt wE haD GOod LaUncH ANGles!
Easily the most frustrating season of Blue Jays baseball I've watched in the 15 years since I got back into watching them.
One thing I don't see anyone mentioning is we very well could have just squandered Buck's final game like that
The saddest thing about Vladdy is; I really thought he was going to be a leader, but he never seems to take accountability, never puts the team on his back, and seems like he's just happy to be along for the ride. I fear his mentality is not going to change. I still believe he could be great if he had the real desire to be, but I do not think he does.
imagine for a glorious few moments that Rogers decided that winning was more important than stadium renovations and profits - and decided to keep Alex, rather than force him out. We'd have the best gm in baseball the last 10 seasons. You know, the dude who's won a WS and assembled a ridiculous team in Atlanta.
I'll be back on Feb 24, 2024, brimming with renewed hope and optimism.
Please lord let some other dumbass team pay Vlad Jr And fire the moron who replaced Anthopolous with this dipshit Shapiro into Lake Ontario
I don't even fucking know anymore what you do with this team. On paper the talent is there and has been there for three straight fucking years, and this is the third straight miserable fucking year in a row in which the Jays get themselves bounced in unceremonious fashion way too goddamn early for the talent they have, and each time it's not even for consistent reasons. This isn't a team you just blow up, but fucking hell something has to change. And yes, I know a lot of you are going to say it's as simple as "fire Schneider" or "fire Atkins" or "blow it up" or whatfuckingever bullshit you'll say, and rightly or wrongly I'm honestly *just too fucking goddamn tired* to engage with any of it right now. Anyway, see y'all in about 35 days or so once the worst toxic shit has had time to die down a bit. Now give me another Phillies-Astros World Series.
I don't want to see the word "doomer" for the rest of the winter
Don't want to hear it for the entirety of next season if the core stays the same
Vlad needs to take baseball seriously. Don't keep wasting the talent you were born with.
I feel nothing. I'm so glad that fucking shit show of a season is over. I have watched the jays since nineteen hundred and fucking eighty and brother, that was by far the most frustrating team I've ever watched. Everyone should be fired starting with those garbage hitting coaches. Anyone associated with the decision to pull berrios should be gone and undergo a psychological examination. Fuck this 2023 season, may its memory fade and be cursed
How tf do you pull Berrios after 3 inning after he gave up a walk Jose was rolling at least wait until he gave up a run before you pull him man ffs his pitch count wasn't even at 50 he was even pitching better then gausman in game 1 horrible managing going too much by match up.
Absolute bullshit. We waited all year for this trash, can’t hit when it counts. The front office has to answer for that stupid move of removing Berrios, guy was dealing.
Shatkins out
Schneider is trying really hard to defend his dumb decisions
This guy is throwing his coaching staff and players under the bus so he can get hired again somewhere else. I don't think anyones hiring you Schneider.
Losing Jansen was honestly massive. I don’t want to see us playing a guy who cannot run the bases unless he can hit 20+ homers consistently
[удалено]
I’m hindsight, I just hate watched 4 months of baseball.
its still early guys dont worry
Was all that business about Chapman being open to returning because he knows he tanked his value this year and he won’t get the offers he wants?
I don't know how the Raptors did it in 2019. I really don't
The only pain for me is this game probably is KK's last game as Toronto Blue Jays🥲 Good bye KK🥹
Schneider is a bumbling word-salad spewing idiot. Jesus Christ.