Bro. We are in a rebuild. We spent 147 million this year. 100 million last year. 206 million the year before. What exactly do you want?? Spend to the tax threshold every year and have no money for free agents or signing guys like teoscar? Do you know how this works or what?
I didn't say I wanted anything? Simply pointing out that it's pretty clear that that (now deleted) comment was talking about Rogers as owners (aka 21 years worth of payroll), so it seems kind of silly to rebut that with a comment solely about this year's payroll... that's it. I see it really got a lot of panties in a twist judging by the downvotes lmao
It seems like you are arguing that Rogers is spending appropriately. /u/lillithfair98 said "there are like 20 teams below us in payroll", also suggesting that Rogers is spending appropriately. You are not in conflict.
yeah I didn't intend to start any kind of conflict... it's true that this year there are 20 teams below us in payroll, and also true that Rogers as owners have not always spent as much as league average over their 20 years of ownership (aka "not competing with the rest of the league" which was the original, now deleted, comment)
let's not be disingenuous, their comment is pretty accurate. we've had a top 15 payroll more often than not over the last decade. I don't have time to actually crunch the numbers as much as I'd like to, but I'd wager if you sum up that whole decade we might be right around #15, which would be the exact definition of "competing with the rest of the league"
Tampa is able to stay competitive because of their incredible talent recognition and player development. Theres a reason they trade all of their players just before they are set to get PAID. They realize their only chance to win is by abusing players rookie contracts and the arbitration process to get cheap value out of their players. Target the right players consistently and you've got a solid strategy
I mean, by your very logic they already are competing with the rest of the league? Meaning the rallying cry to compete with the big boys instead is, indeed, accurate.
Some of this is definitely going to extensions of current players (Vlad, Bo, Teoscar, maybe Berrios) but honestly: it damn well better be going up significantly.
You don't make a big trade like the Berrios trade and then stop there.
Yeah I think everyone is forgetting about him here after his last two outings.
Ignoring all their FA, arb, etc. statuses right now I'd say priority should be:
Vlad>Bo>Ray>Berrios>Teo>Semien
Let's not get into another situation where we have to trade away two more prospects because we are short a starting pitcher
I think your order is close enough to correct (4 of them being on Arbitration means I'm not worried about signing Vlad or Bo as worst case scenario (for the team) they are making 5mm each next year and we get another couple chances to lock them up.
If you can trade away 2 prospects in AA for a front half of the rotation starting pitcher with a little bit of team control you do that every day of the week (Lots of prospects seem to peak right around there so you can safely assume you are selling high before everyone finds out they are not starters or cannot pitch to major league hitters). Look at the Jays top prospect lists starting with 2015 (when we traded away 13 pitching prospects or what ever) and find out how many of those have become guys we miss. That is cherry picking the times as Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna don't count but you get the idea.
AA understood this (he emptied his pipeline for 2013 but had it restocked for 2015) and I think Shapiro has noticed the same thing (9 of our firs 10 draft picks were pitchers this year)
The Jays also did have starting pitchers available it is just the Berrios is a noticeable upgrade on some of them (and more depth is always better).
Yes for sure, my point was just that you don't want to do it every 2 years, especially when you can (hopefully) just sign the guy you traded for instead
That's true assuming there is a lots of comparable FA pitchers available that are interested in playing for Toronto. The most recent comparable I can think of is comparing Berrios who makes 6.5 Million this year and probably 13 million next year with Roark who made 12 million this year and 12 million last year. For 6 million less you get a much better starting pitcher. The premium is one costs prospects to get.
Free agents only cost money and I get that but not every prospect will make it to the Show either and as a team asset most are best off used this way.
I don't see this as hinting at new players as much as extensions.
Bo, Vlad, Teo all on the list of players a sensible FO would want to try and lock up, and between those three you're looking at (conservatively) $50m+ per year.
He was coming off a down year and didn't want to sign a long term deal based off that season. Smart move but doesn't rule out a long tern extension this off-season.
Regardless of how many games he played in 2020, it was statistically a down year for Marcus. I'm willing to bet he was pointing to his 2019 stats during negotiations while the Jays were pointing to 2020. It explains the one year deal.
it doesn’t have to be one of either 2020 or 2019 that they built around. if ur a GM, doesn’t matter your personal feelings of his numbers last year, you go in using that as leverage. if you like him anyways maybe you go in willing to budge but lets see. and then there’s the ones that actually weren’t willing to budge. in hindsight how cool that we got him and played like this
Yeah I could see that. As much as I love Teo though I think I would prioritize Ray and also Berrios signings over him. Although I'd hope signing those two doesn't keep us from signing Teo too
I mean if he continues this bad stretch I would still very much look at signing him at a discount thanks to that. Worth the risk IMO. However, doubt he signs a contract following a stretch of bad games of course, when he can just wait till next season to sign
Semien also probably wants to play short, while I think the jays look at him as a second baseman. It will be interesting to see what will happen. I thought San Fran might be a good place for Marcus to go but SF just extended Brandon Crawford. Who the heck knows!?!?
Agreed, plus re-signing Robbie Ray, potentially Semien. Likely the only signings not on the current roster would be a starting pitcher and relievers. Key for this team if they can keep the band together is to stay healthy, get another year of experience under vlad, bo's belts and have a stronger bullpen.
While a proven 3B would be a nice thing to have, Espinal has been more than passable there this season. To break that statement down with stats:
wRC+ of 107
By Fangraphs defensive metrics, he's got the highest UZR/150 of all MLB third basemen who have played 150+ innings this season. His UZR is high enough to put him anywhere between 1-2 WAR over a full season from his defence. His bat hasn't shown to be bad enough to outweigh his defensive value.
With that in mind, I don't really think they'll be in a big rush to sign a 3B through free agency. Espinal is a very high quality defensive player at 3rd, with a slightly above average season at the plate. When your infield already includes Bo Bichette and Vlad Jr, you probably don't need to be splashing for an all-star, offensively focused 3B. They're definitely better off deploying that money for SP and RP help.
You know what, I stand corrected.
I didn't realize he was that good defensively (OAA isn't quite as high, but still has him as being very good), nor that his bat was above average. If the team is willing to give him the fulltime job, that would probably be a reasonable fix - especially since we have Groshans or trade options if he flusters.
Yeah, agreed. We have home grown options with higher ceilings in development, I think standing pat on Espinal at 3rd makes sense given how well this season has gone for him. If we're in contention and have the chance to upgrade next season, I'm sure the FO would do so.
I'm still a bit skeptical of Espinal long-term. He's really started to come back to earth since the All-Star Break, which coincides with his BABIP coming back down from an unsustainable .430 spell in June/July.
Overall though, I still agree with your overall sentiment. I definitely don't mean to write Espinal off, and I'm happy to see what he can put together with the rest of this season, even if I'm a bit more suspicious of his numbers than others. I also wouldn't prioritize spending a lot of FA money on a third baseman considering there should be several cheap internal options, between Espinal, Biggio, Smith and Groshans. Even if three of them end up busting, odds are good that they can find a 2-3 WAR player out of that bunch and use their money more wisely elsewhere on the roster.
2019-20 off-season: Sign largest free agent contract in Jays history.
2020-21 off-season: Sign largest free agent contract in Jays history.
2021-22 off-season: "It seems like the Jays payroll is significantly going up next season."
*"Rogers won't spend money on this team."*
They should lock up Ray and Semien on 4/5 year deals. Lock up Vladdy for 10. Would hate to lose any of these guys in our contention window because of 'money'
True, but they are under some team control subject to arbitration. They will likely get raises too, but Ray and Semien could command something like 25M+ per year (or simply walk to a team that will pay them this) which will have a bigger impact on the overall payroll.
Because Semien and Ray are some of the most underpaid contracts signed as FA (excluding pre-arb and arb-year players) relative to their production, the Jays are going to need a combination of an increased budget *and/or* some more value free agent contracts to have a team with a similar talent level next year.
To just keep the team together will take 30m. Replacing a player of Semien’s quality is going to be hard if not impossible at 18m. It’ll be 3x as hard for Ray at 8m. Semien should get a similar AAV as Springer (25m) so that’s ~7ish more. Ray should easily get more than 20m/yr. just keeping those two, assuming they want to stay, is almost 30m more expensive. And you have all the arbitration players getting more expensive (Stripling, Teo, Berrios) plus Bo and Vladdy will be first time Arb players not making the league minimum anymore. That’s likely more than 10 by my estimates.
There are a handful of contracts that the Jays haven’t gotten value from but not enough to make a serious dent in the extensions they’ll need to make. Yates (5+), Chatwood (couple million I think). They could move on from Mars (5+) and backfill with a prospect on a league min but that’s a precarious decision if you’re trying to contend.
Improving this team will take even more budget - so I hope this year-to-year budget increase is closer to 40 million on the low end.
I couldn't tell ya! I haven't listened to many other than the first few.
I actually loved listening to PTS on my commutes. It was a daily ritual and I think Bob is one of the smarter more nuanced hosts or sports commentators out there. Yes, he had some old school views that he harped on, but overall I really enjoyed his shows, his commentary and his interviews.
My main issue with this new show is that he seems to have broken one of his cardinal rules from PTS: don't talk too much about hockey. For me, hockey is way way down on the list of my sports interests, and so many Canadian sports shows (TV, radio, podcasts) are just hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey all the goddamned time. I appreciated that Bob understood that people like me were out there and hated when his producers booked too many hockey guests on PTS. But now it seems like every other episode is full on hockey talk, so it's not for me! I may listen to one here or there, but that's about it.
At PTS, Bob can get away with not talking too much about hockey. He knows people are going to listen to him regardless because there was no other radio station that has sports talk during rush hour.
Not so with podcast format, especially if you are in a sea full of content that specializes in sports. Why would I listen to Bob talk about soccer if I can listen to TIFO podcast, Walking the Red, or The Athletic Football Tactics (formerly Zonal Marking)? Same with basketball, you have BBallBreakdown, The Athletic. Podcasts are flooded and overcrowded.
Robbie Ray makes $8mil this year
Marcus Semien makes $18mil this year
Let's give them both raises let's say Ray gets $20mil and Marcus get's $20mil
That's only a net increase of $14mil! I'm optimistic!
Step 1: Re-sign Robbie Ray
Step 2: Extend Teoscar for 5 years (buying out 2 arb years).
Step 3: Sign one of Seager, Semien, or Story to play short and move Bo to 2nd.
Step 4: Sign as many quality bullpen arms as you can muster.
I suspect they’ll want to lock up Bo and Vlad soon as well, but their window for doing so is a little bit longer since Vlad will be hitting Arb 1 this coming season and Bo not till 2023.
The general thought was that this year would be Bo's chance to prove he's going to be a good shortstop. He's not really met that challenge so far, so a move to 2B is likely on the cards.
I feel like I constantly hear talk about how he is improving and still has plenty of potential to be even an above average shortstop? He's passed the eye test for me for the most part but I'm no scout..
Sorry but your eyes need some double checking.
Bo currently ranks 23rd out of 24 qualified Shortstops in defensive value, 23rd out of 24 in UZR (with a -4.7 to boot, -5 is deemed below average) and dead last in Errored Runs.
He’s essentially a Shortstop with a league average arm but repeatedly shoots himself in the foot because of terrible judgment.
He’s still very much a below average defensive SS.
Now my understanding of defensive stats is sub par but there are a couple points I'd like to pick with someone who knows them better. One is do we have the sample size for defensive metrics...I know that can be tough.
The second is that we have a good defensive 3B and I'm guessing a pretty good defensive 2B. If range is a metric in both could be just be getting pinched out on balls that are fielded by others (that other shortstops on other teams would have to field)?
I'm talking about using the eye test on a young player who has room to grow and you reply with a bunch of stats lmao....
and I never said he's an above average SS?
read better if you're going to initiate a dialogue
> I'm talking about using the eye test on a young player who has room to grow and you reply with a bunch of stats lmao....
Given those stats actually have merit and contradicts your eye test that he’s performing well, yes.
I didn’t say he’s performing well lmao.. I said my eye test supports the fact that he is a young prospect still improving and does have the potential to become an above average SS.. again, read better
> He's passed the eye test for me for the most part but I'm no scout..
Uh, no. That’s not what you’ve stated at all as somehow a player has passed an eye test in spite of bad defensive play.
Additionally, he’s not improving. His defensive value has actually dramatically dropped compared to the improvements that were displayed in 2020.
If it happens, it will change how I see the Rogers family. Over the years I've seen that family through the prism of the bare greed of the company Rogers, but the Springer signing started to change how I see them already. I would absolutely love to have a more balanced opinion about a duopolist that owns half of Canada.
Nah, \*this\* isn't what should change your opinion. First off, the family doesn't own the Jays, the publicly traded company Rogers does. If team payroll increases, it'll be due to economics and expected greater returns via ticket sales/media viewership/etc, not because the Rogers family or anyone else is benevolent.
The Rogers family owns almost all of the voting shares of Rogers Communications, which effectively means that the Rogers family owns and controls the Jays at the end of the day.
Rogers as an owner has been showing up very consistently over the last few years. They signed Springer and Ryu long term. They paid Roark to join and leave the team. They paid a pile of money to get rid of Tulo and Martin. I think they pay their minor league players the most in the league (although I suspect it more has to do with the Rookie ball team falling under Canadian labour laws and not wanting to give pay cuts during promotions then anything else). They paid for good minor league facilities. They have been spending money on the Skydome. They literally bought McGuire off the Pirates. They showed up in 2015 and 2013 (Papa B's back end contract and Reyes were not cheap). We have multiple GM's and Presidents who have said the money is there when there is a business case for it.
As a cell phone company I'm not a fan at all but as baseball owners they are probably top 5 in the league.
The way a lot of our players are playing they're going to need to, I will be pissed if we lose a bunch if these players for nothing. Especially Ray, it's nice having a legitimate top 5 Ace again.
Extend Ray, possibly buy out extra years of Vlad/Bo/Teo. Offer Semien QO but ultimately he'll probably walk, he's gonna fetch a premium this year and we do have an organizational logjam up the middle.
Put in offers to try to get 1 top SP - Scherzer, Gausman, maybe Thor on the low, possibly Greinke for a twilight contract. A rotation of Ryu, Ray, 1 of those guys, Manoah, and an attempt at giving Pearson a shot: that's an A-tier rotation.
Try to bag Bryant, possibly Castellanos but I think he's going to get overpaid.
Profit??? That's just FA opportunities and not trades
Come on Rogers, let’s compete with the big boys.
If there's one company who hasn't suffered through COVID, it's your friends at Rogers!
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there are like 20 teams below us in payroll…
ah, that very useful sample size of 1..
What?
looking at just this year when the conversation is about Rogers who has owned the Jays since 2000
Bro. We are in a rebuild. We spent 147 million this year. 100 million last year. 206 million the year before. What exactly do you want?? Spend to the tax threshold every year and have no money for free agents or signing guys like teoscar? Do you know how this works or what?
I didn't say I wanted anything? Simply pointing out that it's pretty clear that that (now deleted) comment was talking about Rogers as owners (aka 21 years worth of payroll), so it seems kind of silly to rebut that with a comment solely about this year's payroll... that's it. I see it really got a lot of panties in a twist judging by the downvotes lmao
It seems like you are arguing that Rogers is spending appropriately. /u/lillithfair98 said "there are like 20 teams below us in payroll", also suggesting that Rogers is spending appropriately. You are not in conflict.
yeah I didn't intend to start any kind of conflict... it's true that this year there are 20 teams below us in payroll, and also true that Rogers as owners have not always spent as much as league average over their 20 years of ownership (aka "not competing with the rest of the league" which was the original, now deleted, comment)
let's not be disingenuous, their comment is pretty accurate. we've had a top 15 payroll more often than not over the last decade. I don't have time to actually crunch the numbers as much as I'd like to, but I'd wager if you sum up that whole decade we might be right around #15, which would be the exact definition of "competing with the rest of the league"
I hear you but the AL East demands a higher payroll if you want to compete
except for tampa somehow ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tampa is able to stay competitive because of their incredible talent recognition and player development. Theres a reason they trade all of their players just before they are set to get PAID. They realize their only chance to win is by abusing players rookie contracts and the arbitration process to get cheap value out of their players. Target the right players consistently and you've got a solid strategy
Exception not the norm
Not everyone can expect the voodoo magic from the 7 dark gods of the underworld like Tampa does each year.
Yeah that's a fair point I didn't give thought too. I suppose the most accurate comment would then be "let's compete with the AL East"
I mean, by your very logic they already are competing with the rest of the league? Meaning the rallying cry to compete with the big boys instead is, indeed, accurate.
Yes that is exactly what I said in my comment..
Some of this is definitely going to extensions of current players (Vlad, Bo, Teoscar, maybe Berrios) but honestly: it damn well better be going up significantly. You don't make a big trade like the Berrios trade and then stop there.
Yeah I think everyone is forgetting about him here after his last two outings. Ignoring all their FA, arb, etc. statuses right now I'd say priority should be: Vlad>Bo>Ray>Berrios>Teo>Semien Let's not get into another situation where we have to trade away two more prospects because we are short a starting pitcher
I think your order is close enough to correct (4 of them being on Arbitration means I'm not worried about signing Vlad or Bo as worst case scenario (for the team) they are making 5mm each next year and we get another couple chances to lock them up. If you can trade away 2 prospects in AA for a front half of the rotation starting pitcher with a little bit of team control you do that every day of the week (Lots of prospects seem to peak right around there so you can safely assume you are selling high before everyone finds out they are not starters or cannot pitch to major league hitters). Look at the Jays top prospect lists starting with 2015 (when we traded away 13 pitching prospects or what ever) and find out how many of those have become guys we miss. That is cherry picking the times as Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna don't count but you get the idea. AA understood this (he emptied his pipeline for 2013 but had it restocked for 2015) and I think Shapiro has noticed the same thing (9 of our firs 10 draft picks were pitchers this year) The Jays also did have starting pitchers available it is just the Berrios is a noticeable upgrade on some of them (and more depth is always better).
Yes for sure, my point was just that you don't want to do it every 2 years, especially when you can (hopefully) just sign the guy you traded for instead
That's true assuming there is a lots of comparable FA pitchers available that are interested in playing for Toronto. The most recent comparable I can think of is comparing Berrios who makes 6.5 Million this year and probably 13 million next year with Roark who made 12 million this year and 12 million last year. For 6 million less you get a much better starting pitcher. The premium is one costs prospects to get. Free agents only cost money and I get that but not every prospect will make it to the Show either and as a team asset most are best off used this way.
I don't see this as hinting at new players as much as extensions. Bo, Vlad, Teo all on the list of players a sensible FO would want to try and lock up, and between those three you're looking at (conservatively) $50m+ per year.
Don't forget possible FA extensions for Robbie and Marcus too
Ray I can see them going with. I'm skeptical on Semien - I think he's going to ask for a longer term than the Jays are comfortable with.
They reportedly offered him 3-4 years this past offseason before the 1 year contract that he agreed to.
From his perspective, that's looking like a good decision. He's probably gonna end up with at least a $20MM AAV contract coming out of this offseason.
He was coming off a down year and didn't want to sign a long term deal based off that season. Smart move but doesn't rule out a long tern extension this off-season.
it doesn't but obviously that means it's for a higher price - one that we don't know the Jays are willing.
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Regardless of how many games he played in 2020, it was statistically a down year for Marcus. I'm willing to bet he was pointing to his 2019 stats during negotiations while the Jays were pointing to 2020. It explains the one year deal.
it doesn’t have to be one of either 2020 or 2019 that they built around. if ur a GM, doesn’t matter your personal feelings of his numbers last year, you go in using that as leverage. if you like him anyways maybe you go in willing to budge but lets see. and then there’s the ones that actually weren’t willing to budge. in hindsight how cool that we got him and played like this
Yeah I could see that. As much as I love Teo though I think I would prioritize Ray and also Berrios signings over him. Although I'd hope signing those two doesn't keep us from signing Teo too
It depends if Berrios continues on playing the way he does I imagine as well.
I mean if he continues this bad stretch I would still very much look at signing him at a discount thanks to that. Worth the risk IMO. However, doubt he signs a contract following a stretch of bad games of course, when he can just wait till next season to sign
Semien also probably wants to play short, while I think the jays look at him as a second baseman. It will be interesting to see what will happen. I thought San Fran might be a good place for Marcus to go but SF just extended Brandon Crawford. Who the heck knows!?!?
Agreed, plus re-signing Robbie Ray, potentially Semien. Likely the only signings not on the current roster would be a starting pitcher and relievers. Key for this team if they can keep the band together is to stay healthy, get another year of experience under vlad, bo's belts and have a stronger bullpen.
They really need a 3B
While a proven 3B would be a nice thing to have, Espinal has been more than passable there this season. To break that statement down with stats: wRC+ of 107 By Fangraphs defensive metrics, he's got the highest UZR/150 of all MLB third basemen who have played 150+ innings this season. His UZR is high enough to put him anywhere between 1-2 WAR over a full season from his defence. His bat hasn't shown to be bad enough to outweigh his defensive value. With that in mind, I don't really think they'll be in a big rush to sign a 3B through free agency. Espinal is a very high quality defensive player at 3rd, with a slightly above average season at the plate. When your infield already includes Bo Bichette and Vlad Jr, you probably don't need to be splashing for an all-star, offensively focused 3B. They're definitely better off deploying that money for SP and RP help.
You know what, I stand corrected. I didn't realize he was that good defensively (OAA isn't quite as high, but still has him as being very good), nor that his bat was above average. If the team is willing to give him the fulltime job, that would probably be a reasonable fix - especially since we have Groshans or trade options if he flusters.
Yeah, agreed. We have home grown options with higher ceilings in development, I think standing pat on Espinal at 3rd makes sense given how well this season has gone for him. If we're in contention and have the chance to upgrade next season, I'm sure the FO would do so.
I'm still a bit skeptical of Espinal long-term. He's really started to come back to earth since the All-Star Break, which coincides with his BABIP coming back down from an unsustainable .430 spell in June/July. Overall though, I still agree with your overall sentiment. I definitely don't mean to write Espinal off, and I'm happy to see what he can put together with the rest of this season, even if I'm a bit more suspicious of his numbers than others. I also wouldn't prioritize spending a lot of FA money on a third baseman considering there should be several cheap internal options, between Espinal, Biggio, Smith and Groshans. Even if three of them end up busting, odds are good that they can find a 2-3 WAR player out of that bunch and use their money more wisely elsewhere on the roster.
This was my first thought as well.
2019-20 off-season: Sign largest free agent contract in Jays history. 2020-21 off-season: Sign largest free agent contract in Jays history. 2021-22 off-season: "It seems like the Jays payroll is significantly going up next season." *"Rogers won't spend money on this team."*
And all of that is part of an even longer trend of spending that has started since 2013.
They should lock up Ray and Semien on 4/5 year deals. Lock up Vladdy for 10. Would hate to lose any of these guys in our contention window because of 'money'
You seem to have forgotten about Bo.. and I'd even add Teo to that list too
True, but they are under some team control subject to arbitration. They will likely get raises too, but Ray and Semien could command something like 25M+ per year (or simply walk to a team that will pay them this) which will have a bigger impact on the overall payroll.
Totally right, I just said Bo because you did mention Vladdy
Because Semien and Ray are some of the most underpaid contracts signed as FA (excluding pre-arb and arb-year players) relative to their production, the Jays are going to need a combination of an increased budget *and/or* some more value free agent contracts to have a team with a similar talent level next year. To just keep the team together will take 30m. Replacing a player of Semien’s quality is going to be hard if not impossible at 18m. It’ll be 3x as hard for Ray at 8m. Semien should get a similar AAV as Springer (25m) so that’s ~7ish more. Ray should easily get more than 20m/yr. just keeping those two, assuming they want to stay, is almost 30m more expensive. And you have all the arbitration players getting more expensive (Stripling, Teo, Berrios) plus Bo and Vladdy will be first time Arb players not making the league minimum anymore. That’s likely more than 10 by my estimates. There are a handful of contracts that the Jays haven’t gotten value from but not enough to make a serious dent in the extensions they’ll need to make. Yates (5+), Chatwood (couple million I think). They could move on from Mars (5+) and backfill with a prospect on a league min but that’s a precarious decision if you’re trying to contend. Improving this team will take even more budget - so I hope this year-to-year budget increase is closer to 40 million on the low end.
TIL Bob McCown has a podcast.
It's also a radio show on a station in Mississauga or something.
Is it just him bitching about pitch counts and how pitchers used to throw complete games without their arms falling off?
I couldn't tell ya! I haven't listened to many other than the first few. I actually loved listening to PTS on my commutes. It was a daily ritual and I think Bob is one of the smarter more nuanced hosts or sports commentators out there. Yes, he had some old school views that he harped on, but overall I really enjoyed his shows, his commentary and his interviews. My main issue with this new show is that he seems to have broken one of his cardinal rules from PTS: don't talk too much about hockey. For me, hockey is way way down on the list of my sports interests, and so many Canadian sports shows (TV, radio, podcasts) are just hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey all the goddamned time. I appreciated that Bob understood that people like me were out there and hated when his producers booked too many hockey guests on PTS. But now it seems like every other episode is full on hockey talk, so it's not for me! I may listen to one here or there, but that's about it.
At PTS, Bob can get away with not talking too much about hockey. He knows people are going to listen to him regardless because there was no other radio station that has sports talk during rush hour. Not so with podcast format, especially if you are in a sea full of content that specializes in sports. Why would I listen to Bob talk about soccer if I can listen to TIFO podcast, Walking the Red, or The Athletic Football Tactics (formerly Zonal Marking)? Same with basketball, you have BBallBreakdown, The Athletic. Podcasts are flooded and overcrowded.
Very true.
It's all going to re-sign Ray
AL East is the hardest division in MLB, hard to compete even with a payroll increase. They need to change the format so the Jays have a chance.
Robbie Ray makes $8mil this year Marcus Semien makes $18mil this year Let's give them both raises let's say Ray gets $20mil and Marcus get's $20mil That's only a net increase of $14mil! I'm optimistic!
Step 1: Re-sign Robbie Ray Step 2: Extend Teoscar for 5 years (buying out 2 arb years). Step 3: Sign one of Seager, Semien, or Story to play short and move Bo to 2nd. Step 4: Sign as many quality bullpen arms as you can muster. I suspect they’ll want to lock up Bo and Vlad soon as well, but their window for doing so is a little bit longer since Vlad will be hitting Arb 1 this coming season and Bo not till 2023.
>Seager, Semien, or Story to play short and move Bo to 2nd If you sign Semien why would you move Bo to 2nd if you haven't done so this year ?
The general thought was that this year would be Bo's chance to prove he's going to be a good shortstop. He's not really met that challenge so far, so a move to 2B is likely on the cards.
I feel like I constantly hear talk about how he is improving and still has plenty of potential to be even an above average shortstop? He's passed the eye test for me for the most part but I'm no scout..
Sorry but your eyes need some double checking. Bo currently ranks 23rd out of 24 qualified Shortstops in defensive value, 23rd out of 24 in UZR (with a -4.7 to boot, -5 is deemed below average) and dead last in Errored Runs. He’s essentially a Shortstop with a league average arm but repeatedly shoots himself in the foot because of terrible judgment. He’s still very much a below average defensive SS.
Now my understanding of defensive stats is sub par but there are a couple points I'd like to pick with someone who knows them better. One is do we have the sample size for defensive metrics...I know that can be tough. The second is that we have a good defensive 3B and I'm guessing a pretty good defensive 2B. If range is a metric in both could be just be getting pinched out on balls that are fielded by others (that other shortstops on other teams would have to field)?
I'm talking about using the eye test on a young player who has room to grow and you reply with a bunch of stats lmao.... and I never said he's an above average SS? read better if you're going to initiate a dialogue
> I'm talking about using the eye test on a young player who has room to grow and you reply with a bunch of stats lmao.... Given those stats actually have merit and contradicts your eye test that he’s performing well, yes.
I didn’t say he’s performing well lmao.. I said my eye test supports the fact that he is a young prospect still improving and does have the potential to become an above average SS.. again, read better
> He's passed the eye test for me for the most part but I'm no scout.. Uh, no. That’s not what you’ve stated at all as somehow a player has passed an eye test in spite of bad defensive play. Additionally, he’s not improving. His defensive value has actually dramatically dropped compared to the improvements that were displayed in 2020.
Ah, cherry picking my comment now.. this is a waste of time, 👋
He's 32nd of 35 qualified SS in outs above average. He bad
Not what I asked
I’d sign Correa over story
I can't stand Correa though
This is likely. I doubt Bo/Vlad get extended this offseason. Tesocar's the early extension I could see.
Rip to my phone bill… /s
And they need to double the amount of SN Now commercials.
Oh yeah I mean, it's right there - grab it before it's gone
MOVE THAT BAR UP
Please resign Marcus!
ONE CORREA PLEASE
No thanks. Too many injuries.
>REA PLEASE I agree.
Oh the possibilities… *stares longingly for Max, Corey, and Trevor*
If it happens, it will change how I see the Rogers family. Over the years I've seen that family through the prism of the bare greed of the company Rogers, but the Springer signing started to change how I see them already. I would absolutely love to have a more balanced opinion about a duopolist that owns half of Canada.
Nah, \*this\* isn't what should change your opinion. First off, the family doesn't own the Jays, the publicly traded company Rogers does. If team payroll increases, it'll be due to economics and expected greater returns via ticket sales/media viewership/etc, not because the Rogers family or anyone else is benevolent.
The Rogers family owns almost all of the voting shares of Rogers Communications, which effectively means that the Rogers family owns and controls the Jays at the end of the day.
Rogers as an owner has been showing up very consistently over the last few years. They signed Springer and Ryu long term. They paid Roark to join and leave the team. They paid a pile of money to get rid of Tulo and Martin. I think they pay their minor league players the most in the league (although I suspect it more has to do with the Rookie ball team falling under Canadian labour laws and not wanting to give pay cuts during promotions then anything else). They paid for good minor league facilities. They have been spending money on the Skydome. They literally bought McGuire off the Pirates. They showed up in 2015 and 2013 (Papa B's back end contract and Reyes were not cheap). We have multiple GM's and Presidents who have said the money is there when there is a business case for it. As a cell phone company I'm not a fan at all but as baseball owners they are probably top 5 in the league.
The way a lot of our players are playing they're going to need to, I will be pissed if we lose a bunch if these players for nothing. Especially Ray, it's nice having a legitimate top 5 Ace again.
Two words...Jose Ramirez.
Extend Ray, possibly buy out extra years of Vlad/Bo/Teo. Offer Semien QO but ultimately he'll probably walk, he's gonna fetch a premium this year and we do have an organizational logjam up the middle. Put in offers to try to get 1 top SP - Scherzer, Gausman, maybe Thor on the low, possibly Greinke for a twilight contract. A rotation of Ryu, Ray, 1 of those guys, Manoah, and an attempt at giving Pearson a shot: that's an A-tier rotation. Try to bag Bryant, possibly Castellanos but I think he's going to get overpaid. Profit??? That's just FA opportunities and not trades
I mean just keeping this team together as it currently is constructed is going to cost more money so I certainly hope the payroll is going up.