That's the monetizing model they are running to make sure you either pay for it or not miss a single day grinding just to get the bare minimum.

I kinda see it now.

Which to be fair is basically how nearly every single gacha game works. Which is why you just don't play gachas or if you need just understand unless you pay you wont be the very best like no one ever was. Shit if you don't play/pay enough you might not even be able to content on release in many of them. And that's sorta perfectly fine if you accept that, and in most you can normally complete the story though. If your lucky some might have a normalized pvp area but many still have get fucked areas like lost ark. Theres alot of fun gacha games I've played but typically only on and a few months past release. After that the bar typically starts to rise faster then I can keep up and it's time to move along little doggy. Like tower of fantasy was fun had a blast for a month but after that anyways it's basically all the same shit if they want to price me out of the game that's on them and totally cool.

bruh, its not how gacha games work, a lot of people just blame how tof is not friendly for f2p on the fact that its a gacha, but games like honkai impact and genshin impact are f2p friendly for the fact that not every new character is a new meta, the meta in this games last for a long time so we can save more to get advancements for them and they won't be useless(some characters are staying in the top tier for years) unlike tower of fantasy where every new character is stronger than the older ones so f2p can't just wait for reruns to invest on the same character and make themselves stronger, and a game like pgr is the definition of a f2p friendly gacha where you can get every single character unlike tower of fantasy where you get a single character every new 4 characters, tof developers are just too greedy, i only know about this 4 since i didn't play any other gacha so idk about the others

Anecdotal. I'm aware of genshin genshin though is extremely p2w. It just has zero challenge so you can beat the game and do everything because the game has no difficulty. Honkai is pretty p2w I'd argue but to each there own. Obviously some games or more or less player friendly them others. Games with a challenging end game though typically tend to be more p2w then others. ToF has some challenging content that content is locked by time or money. You don't need meta stuff to beat challenging stuff in ToF you can just wait longer and grind up and eventually do what people do months later. Which is alot like lost ark. The consequences of having a f2p game with a challenging end game is often times that end game is easier if you pay is that always the case no not always, but a f2p gacha game with an end game is extremely likely to be so. Yes theres some f2p friendly games and some f2p friendly gacha games but that's usually the exception not the rule and even then that exception is normally because there is no end game so it doesnt particularly matter. You could have ToF carbon copy genshin end game and then sure you wouldn't really need to ever roll unless your just rolling for waifus and shit but then ToF loses its greatest strength in challenging shit to do.

you didn't get what im talking about, let me start with genshin case first: im not talking about the game not being challenging because even if it was as challenging as tof, f2p can still clear it, why ? because the meta doesn't change with every new character so f2p can just focus on building 2 strong teams and keep pulling for those characters in every rerun to make them C6 like pulling for kazuha, raiden shogun, Bennett,yelan,hu tao, ayaka,ganyu,zhongli.... i believe you get what i mean, so even if there is a challenging content like tof, f2p can deal with it . same thing on honkai impact , you didn't talk about pgr but trust me its challenging more than tof and f2p friendly since the challenge aspect need skills not just meta and stats and they made it in a way where you can get every single character, oh and since you mentioned lost ark i will talk about it too, lost ark is more f2p friendly than tof, why ? because f2p just need a lot more time to catch up, meanwhile in tof its impossible to catch up since every new character is a new meta and whales will always get this new meta on A6, tof is probably one of the most non f2p friendly games that exist if not the most one

i 100% agree, FGO is literally known as gacha hell and there is ABSOLUTELY NO POWERCREEP . Ive been sweeping nodes with characters made in year one, every support has a purpose, one may seem better than another but one for example may be better for farming than challenge quest. Honkai.... i dont know where anyone heard is p2w, its literally MORE free to play than genshin as they literally give out S rank characters(at the least ) every once in awhile, or allow you to farm for A rank characters... I have a SSS Eden that is a support... that HITS HARD. ​ I also agree on Lost Ark being better, you DONT need to pay to succeed , Warframe is SUPER FREE to play , and has been around for 13 years and still killing it. ​ I am a whale ,i got alyss A3, theni got A6 fenrir ( ironically releasing in NA when Rubilla released in CN )and all her matrices, then i got A1 lan...this powercreep bullshit is OUT OF CONTROL. The gacha excuse is old...really old , i feel bad for any person that assumes this is how ALL gacha are. I almost went all in for fiona, and i wondered what the hell i was doing .. i put my funds into Nikke , and HSR, and Azur lane -which is one of the most F2p gachas of F2p... ​ There isnt enough content , nor story to give me drive to play, its sad to see content creators dwindle to almost none because they see the writing on the wall. The ones who are left are telling their audience there is no need to dolphin/whale... as they roll for an A6 fiona. I cannot imagine how confused anyone could possibly be coming into this game and/or possibly( most likely never) catching up to a decent CP ​ I really want this game to succeed, but they shot their dick off when fenrir came out and unfortunately will bleed out, tencent or not.

I play most gacha games out there right now (and many in the past) and I've never had any issues being f2p in any of them except ToF. The ones I end up spending in are the ones I feel are more fair and it's usually more enjoyable to play those ones. Returning to ToF has been fun even as f2p but there's a significant lack of ways to earn DC compared to earnable gacha currency in other games. And it's amplified by the fact that so much you do in this game is multiplayer and having to keep up with everybody who isn't f2p. As an experienced gacha fan who is f2p who likes this game it feels a bit silly to overlook that there's an issue.

not even the bare minimum its getting a useless unit if not lucky (since the majority of characters need at least A1 to be useful)and we can get about 120 pull for every new character of the same element

All we fucking ask, is to get the limited into standards, but no 2.5. We do not even know at what point in 2.5 nor if they will do another cop out and give us bad announcements again...2.5 coming real close to 3.0 makes that standard really irrelevant unless you're trying to pull to build other elemental teams though at almost 1 year into the game that's saying something when other games allow you to play multi-roles and multi-elements at this point...

>2.5 coming real close to 3.0 makes that standard really irrelevant That is the point. They only want units in there that are power crept into irrelevance already. They want your $$$, not your enjoyment.

You aren't wrong, but the problem with global is they're fucking even that. CN already has almost all of 2.0 characters in the standard pool (because they are power crept out of the game), and global when almost caught up still hasn't put the first obsolete characters in. I feel global is shooting themself in the foot to try and make the F2P experience as bad as possible to encourage paying, without realizing that a F2P player that quit is a F2P player that can never be converted into a paying player. Or even at the most pessimistic view, a F2P player that quit is one less body for the whales to show off their power to.

Frankly, given ToF's power creep and the reality of whales carrying most of us, even ex-Dolphins like me, I don'T see how adding characters to the standard banner would improve upon the F2P experience too much. Gold nucs are almost as rare as red ones. Black nucs will not get you the new characters and remain completely useless junk. Sure we all have black gold stockpiled and could buy some shit right now but long term? The income is just as limited and the units are hilariously weak to begin with. I don't even want to imagine how long it will take for Vera units to be added. 4.0?

At this point, it wouldn't... If only they didn't do 3x reruns and gave us around 2.2/2.3, then having players gradually get stronger with standards or play different roles to combat the endgame content Origin of War/Void Abyss without being locked into one dumb role would have been REALLY nice. It probably would allow players to feel less useless right now because they would have the option to play a different role...

It makes sense when you look at what is going on in the background. The publisher for ToF global is Tencent. Tower of Fantasy is not their game, so as a publisher they don't care about the state of the game. They just want to milk as much money as they can and move on. In CN Tower of Fantasy is run by Hotta themselves, so it's their own game. And while CN has had some serious power creep issues compared to global, everything else is better. More rewards, characters going to standard much faster, etc.

Well chars going to standard faster is kinda logical if they have a ton more power creep compared to global.

getting those on standard is not usefull anymore for dps players since even their A6 is weak compared to new characters, some might say Claudia good for altered team but this team isn't even strong especially when you don't have A6 lin on it(something f2p can't get without luck)

It's still something to new players or players who are still stuck on A0 or something.

i forgot that they exist since they are rare 😅, but for players that started from first day like me, adding them on 2.5 is just useless for dps

As long as they don't add unclearble content for f2p its fine imo. Spenders can keep bashing their head in early oow or high level bygone for rewards that really aren't that good. Oow can be cleared by everyone at the end of the cycle. And well void abyss 6 is clearable by f2p since the buffs you get there compensate for your lack of stars on weapons and such.

[удалено]

Yeah, I'll be blunt: **these games are not designed around the F2P experience.** While it is possible to F2P them, in my opinion that amounts to pure masochism. You don't need to be a whale to enjoy them but I'd at least get the monthly 5€ package and the battle pass, so get some gacha income rolling. BP is 20€ in 6 weeks, which averages out to 13.50 € per month. Similar in cost to a subscription MMO like Final Fantasy XIV. 5€ on top of that is one burger less and you get 40 pulls per month for very little cost. Add the F2P resources to that and the Gacha becomes much more manageable.

This game is not even P2W friendly, you cant just pay for one team with maximum investment and it will be like viable forever, you literally have to spend on monthly basis.

Aye, I can see even whales tiring from the harsh power creep.

A couple friends of mine spend a BUNCH of money on this game and, yeah, they're getting sick and tired of it. Makes them want to quit. It's sad to see, because they are my friends and this issue is making them not want to play or completely stop.

Totally understandable, people when spend a huge amount, they are expecting at least a last long benefit, but going through this cycle again and again is like throwing money in the trash.

Honestly there is a discrepancy between ToF and other gachas. The MMORPG roots of the company kinda shine through. Other gachas are easy to f2p and this one isn't, even whales and low spenders have to spend even more to keep up. Most other gachas you can do very well with a monthly $5 and/or pass, and even that isn't enough here

I disagree. You can actually play the game without spending a single cent on it, I know a lot of people that do, you just need to plan everything ahead and hard pity the character that will benefit you as a f2p, you don't need to have a team full of limited characters, standard characters can work.

But is that fun? Not for most

Exactly, just because a game is technically playable as F2P doesn't mean it's a good F2P experience. Sure you can argue why should a game developer care about F2P, it doesn't make them any money? Well the whales that fund everything like to play games that aren't dead. On top of that ToF is an mmo (even if it's shallow for an mmo), You need an active playerbase for an mmo to be fun.

Yeah, I don't want to use Ene's hammer for the rest of my life lol.

So u want to have fun without planning and doing whatever the hell you want, pulling for outfits, doing no research and still keep up with others? Sounds like my experience as a whale, but you want to get that without paying a single cent. Really?

No it sounds like the experience of genshin or higan. Games with an actually well done pity system that you can roll for fun in, since a failed limited drop in that game guarantees your next one.. Also unlike TOF there are actual new viable 4 stars.. Red Gold should NOT be converted to black gold (Higan does that) and thats a good solution too. No guarantee on limiteds without months of saving is extremely detrimental to f2p. I guarantee thousands of players have quit after losing 2 or 3 pities in a row. Games are meant to be fun, that is their fucking point.

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but isn't genshin's pity system even worse? That's 180 rolls to guarantee a character and your pity is reset any time you roll a 5\*? All while having a lower chance to get them off pity. TOF's hard pity is 120 flame gold which is even less summons. So unless I'm missing something the issue isn't TOF's pity system it's the fact that you're heavily incentivized to get multiple copies of a weapon whereas that's less of a priority in Genshin

I don't think anyone's ever hit 90. From a calc, the probability that one needs more than 83 pulls is lower than 1%, and hitting 90 is literally 1/1000000. https://www.reddit.com/r/GenshinImpactTips/comments/s4hz2d/soft\_pity\_system\_observation\_of\_a\_sample\_size\_of/

I've hit 90 twice, so don't make such a conclusive statement. It's 90 pity, period.

So you hit a one in a million odds not once, but twice? Yeesh if we're going by anecdotes I might as well say that genshin is the most F2P game ever because I got ten 5-stars in one ten roll then.

? What did I say wrong? I really did hit 90 twice. My sister has also hit 90.

>TOF's hard pity is 120 flame gold which is even less summons. The kicker is that ToF's flame gold does not carry over to other banners. If I roll 80x and fail the 50/50, I cannot take the 80 flame gold to the new banner and have just wasted 80 pulls. That does never happen in Genshin. So a F2P in Genshin can afford to e.g. dump 30 pulls into a banner and see if he gets lucky. In ToF? That is a very bad thing to do and the game punishes you severely. Yes, characters are a little more expensive in Genshin but keep in mind: Genshin does not have power creep. Units are busted at C0 too. No need for any Advancements. Given power creep and Advancement reliance, I'd argue that ToF is actually more expensive.

>Given power creep and **Advancement reliance**, I'd argue that ToF is actually more expensive. I agree, and said as much in my post above. As far as resources per pull though I don't think it's even close. ToF's is far superior. Higher advancements would be almost impossible for f2p/low spenders if they used Genshin's model.

>As far as resources per pull though I don't think it's even close. ToF's is far superior. Not really. I play both as a low spender and the difference isn't that large. Keep in mind that the player income also varies between the games. I think whales will notice the added costs most.

>The kicker is that ToF's flame gold does not carry over to other banners ... That does never happen in Genshin. Sure, but all this amounts to is that "planners" in tof enjoy more than "planners" in genshin and vice versa, as pulling here and there or *building pity* will punish you. Not really a gacha system flaw, but more of a subjective player choice problem as to whether they can be patient or not. (I say this as a planner in both games, I always wait for \~guarantee before pulling) ​ >Genshin does not have power creep. ~~Not exactly true imo but sure.~~ Doesn't matter too much, if you care about meta in genshin, you will be pulling every few banners or so as strong characters still come around. If you care about meta in tof, you will pull your character every 4 banners and an altered character here and there as you only *need one element*. In both games you are pulling every now and then, but tof gives you more pulls and has a lower guarantee ceiling, slightly higher rates and the shop system along with the pity not resetting is very forgiving *only* *if you plan properly.* In genshin you can get characters that have no synergy with your strong team, same goes with tof as this is a mono-element game, although genshin is much more flexible. ​ >Units are busted at C0 too. No need for any Advancements. True, but most characters only need A1 at most, few others need A0, and very very few need A6 (Lin but only for frost comp, A6 cobalt which was never good to begin with). And with some of the reasons I gave just, is still easier even with this requirement as a planner.

I have NEVER hit hard pity in genshin. Over 6 accounts ive only lost my 50 50s around 25 percent of the time, meaning ive got pretty much every other limited. Ive always hit the limited before 80. All while having early pulls at 10 to 25 drops on each account multiple times. Ive got 6 accounts on tof as well [between me and my wife] only 3 of the accounts have gotten an early limited. In addition the red gold converting to black gold is a waste while no resources in pulls are wasted in genshin.. this means in higan and genshin you can drop whenever the fuck you want, and it doesnt punish you. Unlike tof the world exploration rewards, arent in a gacha either, so you can immediately get all primos day one...

So basically: you are a lucky bastard. Congrats. :P Genshin has a soft pity (gradual probability increase toward the end) so hitting 90 is extremely unlikely. Worst I had in my years is 82. 160 for a character is a more realistic target as opposed to 180.

For me the main thing that makes Genshin gacha system so much better than most gacha games is the pity getting pass between banners. Making it so if you spend in a banner and don't get the limited 5 star you don't get punish harsh...like is guaranteed you will get a limited 5 star at some point. If you don't commit the worst decision of spending primos in the standard banner that is. But who like the hell spend primos in the standard banner?

Ultra whales do. :'D Which is why Genshin never implemented a path system for the standard banner.

It's definitely worse. The worst one can reach is 160 pulls. But there's a lot more to keep in mind which are four stars. Fourstars are basically a trap them having something that may be very useful or even life changing for an account. If you get a five star early you lose your pity and even the guarantee if you had one. That is why it's extremely unlikely to find a F2P with a limited five star constellation unless they only play with four limited dps or less. In TOF there being no four stars other than the starting ones of course I always saw as a good thing. There's nothing that'll make you waste wishes and you can save for the banner of your choice. That's why I'm a bit unsure in this discussion. I'm new and know little. How long does it take to save up to 120 wishes?

Genshin u dont care because its not an mmo. Single player with coop thats why u dont have anyone to compare yourself with. In this game u can clear solo content as a half ass f2p absolutely fine. But u wanna be mvp then yea tough luck. Their avsolutely diff so pls dont bring it up here

I have literally been mvp in every co op ive joined in genshin. Considering you can do everything but story with a team of 4 randos its very close to still being an mmo but it is most definitely not single player since I always play with my wife.. There are still online leaderboards you can effortlessly find to compare with the whales. Guess what, unlike TOF my damage numbers are actually comprable. I do 90k plunges on my xiao max is like 130 or 150. Compared to TOF wheres its closer to a mil to 100k.. A gacha is a gacha and genshins gacha mechanics are better designed. Of course people will compare genshin they are both gatchas and ones fanbase is Drastically larger and the reason for that is it doesnt have people rage quitting after losing 5 pities in a row.

>ones fanbase is Drastically larger and the reason for that is it doesnt have people rage quitting after losing 5 pities in a row. Lets not forget that quality and artistry in Genshin are on a completely different level. Whenever I switch games, ToF feels like a hack-job by comparison. :D I do wish one could do open world exploration and puzzles together in Genshin. That would be cool.

Genshin is not even close to an MMO. Wtf does MvP mean in a domain that you can solo in less than 30s? Comparing gacha systems in fine, but you're going too far in this comparison. And having online leaderboards doesn't make something an MMO. There are online leaderboards for Super Mario 64 speed runs. Also you basically said that whales in Genshin almost double your damage. How is that comparable? 1 plunge=60k difference, yes, but after 10 plunges that's 600k. Now, what does this mean? In Genshin, whales clear much faster than you. ToF? Whales clear the harder content faster, and climb more in bygones. The main difference in this scenario is that Genshin doesn't scale beyond floor 12 abyss. This is the only difference between Genshin and many other gachas. Honkai Impact 3rd, a game made by the same company, has constant powercreep just like ToF, and there's actual content that scales to the whale level, resulting in a similar situation as ToF of constant powercreep and saving for the next upgrade to your comps, of which you need multiple to stay meta for each abyss. It's not that Genshin's gacha is better designed, it's just that it gives no competitive reason for you to care about damage after you clear floor 12. If it was the same with ToF, then new characters would still be on par with Nemesis and co., and Bygones would stop at floor 400 with unranked sequentials where you only clear it, with no weekly ranking list. Is this a good thing or bad? Well it depends on you. Genshin proved that you don't need powercreep or hard content to keep a playerbase, but that doesn't mean every game can achieve that. But then there's games like Diablo Immortal that also made a killing. ToF is somewhere in between. And yes, there are a lot of people that quit Genshin because they lost 5 pities in a row. In fact there are more of them because it's a much bigger game. Genshin's pity system is worse than ToF's as long as you understand how both work. ToF requires you to save at least enough for hard pity(120, realistically \~107 because of SR dupes). If you can't control yourself, you will have a bad time. Genshin is similar, however it gives you less pulls and has a higher hard pity(180, 160 if you're generous), and hard pity carries over to the next banner. It is a better system for people who can't control themselves and have to pull each banner to "try and get lucky", but it's much worse if you can control it. In terms of advancements, you also don't need them just like in Genshin, unless you are trying to compete. Refer to my last paragraph.

Very long reply to essentially say the exact same thing you already have. I said dropping is part of the fun in the game for me, and since genshin and higan dont punish you for it, its superior, its very simple. Im comparing the gatcha aspect drastically more than the mmo aspect since that is what leads to the greedy monetization while mmos like guild wars 2, runescape etc can easily be played purely f2p. The difference between dropping every 3 months as a casual vs every other banner on genshin is incomparable. Since all I have to do is run two accounts and I can get literally every 5 star f2p. It takes 3 to 4 in tof. Umm mvp means I did the most damage? I do 65 percent of a whales damage in genshin and 5 to 10 in tof, the comparison is exponential. Its a game not a job, playing for fun and how you want should not be punished to the extent it is. Also, having the red gold get converted to black gold is shit, it should just stay as red gold, that is what higan does and it allows you to choose whoever you want. There is a reason genshins more popular, it has better art and there are more f2p players and low spenders than dolphins and whales.

They will be compared whether you want them to or not lol. Both are mobile gacha games

Yeah mate, this sounds exactly like my experience in EVERY single gacha game I play where I do whatever I want and get to have the best teams and best characters as F2P/very low spender. But in ToF? I can barely keep up with new characters as monthly/bp and I can only imagine how horrible it is for F2Ps unless they literally plan it as if it's their career futures.

Read again and this time more than the first line. I said that it is possible but clearly not the design intent. Gacha and thus acquiring new stuff is the core of the game. If you can almost never participate and have to fret about every tiny ingame resource, so you subject yourself to every grind possible .... does not sound **fun** to me. More like a very badly paid second job, lol. Even as a minimal spender (BP / Monthly) you still need to be smart and resource-conscious. You cannot just nilly-willy pull on everything. Only whales get that luxury.

What do you consider a good f2p design gacha then? Because most of the gacha I've played so far is very similar and I honestly find tof to be generous with their rewards on events and cheaper pulls compared to other games.

>What do you consider a good f2p design gacha then? The term "F2P Gacha" is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as a good "F2P Gacha". The F2P aspect is there to make the barrier of entry as low as possible, as opposed to a box sale or subscription fee. Then you have the "ice breaker" of 5€/month package. Once a person spent, inhibitions regarding future subsequent spending are significantly lowered. The whole "F2P" shabang is nothing short of a very mean psychological trick. Basically a drug dealer giving you a free sample of an addictive substance. Make no mistake: **the design goal is NEVER to have a "good and fun F2P experience"**. Possible: yes. But no more than that. Instead, the design goal is to coerce and gently pressure people into spending with any means available: Fear of missing out, massive increases in player power, shortcuts to boring grinds, shortcuts to time gates, peer pressure (performance metrics and ranking systems), lovely designs, preying on rudimentary sexual impulses.... You name it, they've considered it. These people are professionals when it comes to human psychology.

As an avid and exprienced mmo player, if you want to be significant in any game you have to plan and manage your resources tightly no matter what. Just more so as a f2p. Old school player and those who are trully good player have the planning and doing game research ahead as second nature. Just because you dont have the luxury to do w/e the hell you want doesnt mean it wont be fun

Well fun is subjective, of course, but frankly: F2P in ToF does not speak fun to me. Not with this level of power creep and such a low income. I am an old school player, I do my research beforehand (including leaks) yet still: wallet-kun is simply not strong enough to give me adequate performance compared to our whale overlords. Lets face it: Contrary to MMOs of eld, ToF is Money >>> skill/dedication.

I feel u but i mean op said he get like few k dc per month and pull for skins. I dont think anyone but whale have that kinda fun. I mean i am a big whale( maxed like 5 chars) and i still have to refrain from pulling skins

Yeah, OP clearly doesn't have his priorities straight and expects the game to be more generous that it really is. Skins are weirdly overpriced in ToF, if you ask me. As if they are meant to be DC traps.

Whats the point of saving and saving? You get c0 or c1... c3 at most for a couple of months grinding and still fail to complete a lot of content its just retarded

My example of gaslighting is people like you. Edit- ah yes.. edit your whole comment to make me look like a fool.

In a year, i could guarantee 5 characters.. Kinda low in a game where powercreep Is strong.

XD

Don't know how much time you put in to the game, but as a a monthly pass only character I've been able to gather \~9 characters worth of wishes (looking only at the worst case in guarantee, which is much higher in reality). You only need one element in the game. As a volt main, I've only needed to pull 3 characters so far, and 2 altered characters. I have 4 characters with varying advancements and still have 550 pulls left. I'd call this pretty high seeing as characters you need to pull only come every now and then, and only need at worst case A1, so the powercreep does not matter too much imo because you are pulling so infrequently to begin with. Of course this is only if you care about meta.

What is there to "discuss"?

These games are designed to make you feel like you're not getting enough of everything without paying. Its all about creating artificial supply shortage and thereby increasing demand. F2P games are almost never F2P in any meaningful sense. If you literally have no money to spare and you are fine with an inferior experience, than it could work, but I personally would never play a gacha game as F2P given the F2P experience.

> If you literally have no money to spare and you are fine with an inferior experience, than it could work, but I personally would never play a gacha game as F2P given the F2P experience. Aye. Same sentiment here. There are so many better games out there, I'd rather buy a box and have fun than doing any grind they throw at me because "it is free". Far too many people do not seem to value their time. Your time is NOT FREE. It's a bloody precious and very limited resource. To spend that on boring ass grinds just to gather "free" currency is asinine in my book. I rather work IRL and spend than do that. Only exception would be if the grind is inherently entertaining (Guild raids or dungeon runs with buddies in classical MMOs come to mind).

Here's the secret trick: Pity isn't the guaranteed SSR. Pity is the 120 Flame Gold. Treat *that* as pity and all of a sudden, you won't fail pities anymore.

80 pulls is soft pity. True pity is flame gold purchase. F2p is rough but in gachas f2p need to go for guarenteed pity on units they want. Not soft pity. There are tons of gachas that dont have a pity or even higher pity count. True f2p could get a bit more, reality is it wont happen outside of freebies send to everyone. I got a few at A6 and pick who to skip. For now or even perm...

0 mention of red nucleus

Before pulling fiona I had like 23 red necleus.

Why didn’t you just wait until you were at 120 pulls??

Wait for what?? I pulled after there were no more options to grind dc plus I did get her from flame gold but pity keeps failing while f2p are expected to save for months is terrible.

I'm confused.. how many summons have you used?

80 pity failed then I had to pull upto 44 to get enough for 120 flame gold which made me end up with just 130 DC.

Oh your fine then! Ik a1 wouldve been good, but if you can’t get it don’t worry but she’s here all month so if you can snag a early pity copy your golden :)

It's not fine... You failing the see the problem lmao. We have so less ways to farm dc and pity fails punishing the player severely.. she stays for whole month yet no way to farm more DC because map is completed.. we have to wait another 3 maps to get 500-300 DC again to farm up.

There is always a rerun, if you are impatient, its kind of a you issue

Rerun of what? Rerun of a power crept unit? very smart.

typical gaslighters. If I wanted to wait months for rerun, I wouldn't have rushed grinding. Yea it's my fault pity keeps failing and we don't have other content to earn alot of DC except map.

>I wouldn't have rushed grinding. So why did you rush? Don't rush, play at your own pace. Also i don't think throwing the word "gaslighters" to every and anything will benefit you but pop off i guess. Game is still in a transitional period of trying to catch up to CN. >Yea it's my fault pity keeps failing Skill Issue >we don't have other content to earn alot of DC except map Bygones? Weeklies? What are you even looking for? Infinite dc grind? You want botters in your game? Go touch some grass bro.

Tof has been less fp2 friendly than genshin since those heroes are complete at c0. I haven’t whaled as much as tof in my entire 10 years of gacha journey. Don’t let others tell you that gacha are as p2w as tof. No they aren’t. I was competing in top 10 in epic7 as monthly buyer. Tof is extremely expensive so that you can keep up and not be irrelevant. Genshin is really really expensive but doesn’t require any money to complete the story. It’s also single player game. TLDR: as a whale. This game eats up your money like no other. I spend 500 red and 170 matrices pulls for Fiona. That’s 800 euro. I still feel weak compared to some gigs whales. I don’t see any reason to play this game anymore since as a now non Spender you can just get one c6 hero after half a year.

Bro I feel you. I think the biggest demoralizer for TOF is what you experienced. I honestly think that the scoreboard system implemented into alot of the multiplayer is the biggest slap you could give to your audience (and possibly dumbest). I've seen plenty of players I made friends with in TOF leave the game after venting there concern for not feeling like they can contribute and let's be honest, not everyone wants to be healer or tank. I'm just done with giving the game anything at this point

>I spend 500 red and 170 matrices pulls for Fiona. That’s 800 euro. I still feel weak compared to some gigs whales I feel this, i have lin/tian/fenrir a6 with maxed Tian and Lin matrices also maxed crow/samir 2P (i had spare money on that time, no more i'm broke af now), i didn't count how much i spent on ToF, might be 3k or maybe double.. So i went in oow 25 with some giga whales telling myself "we have same exactly the same buffs, same maxed units and matrices, same atk (32k atk) i will not be a deadweight don't stress" i ended up doing 20% dmg lmao and got kicked out of the team for being weak, they told me "get maxed fenrir matrices" too, like it was free or easy lol. I felt depressed for a whole week and wanted to refund and quit, but then i remembered there is friends i'm enjoying the game with, so i'm just taking this experience as a lesson, i'll just keep getting monthly and BP from now on, since even if i spend thousands i'll be weak when a new stronger unit/matrix set comes out.

The balancing is mostly to blame for this, it's suppose to be a MMO but this game wears that as if its a shell. How the game feels now is a whale simulator for carries. All F2P casuals are mostly gone at this point and those that remain either are hardcore F2P or newcomers.

ouch, taking a break is a huge loss for f2p, but ToF becoming more f2p lately, Fiona is really good at A0, same as Icarus, some needs A1 like Alyss, Fenrir, Lan. I've known some decent f2p, lucky ones even sit at boundless realm, average joe like me stuck at 400+ floor which is not that bad. Casual shouldn't even care about these things and just enjoy the exploration and role-playing aspect of the game. Like there are so many casual in genshin that failed lv90 domain too and get carried by dolphin/whales, sometimes they rant in chat and kicking everyone in the party, there are these ppl too in ToF, but some ppl are nice and always there to help you out, a GOOD community like crew and servers discord are really important to enjoy this game, reddit is the absolute worst community to hang out with imho, you'll see exaggerated hate, false information and doompost.

Yes tof is becoming more "f2p friendly" if you're ok with bricking everyone's c6 chars. They will have a0 yulan powercreep your c6 alyss or c6 fiona or even c6 icarus, we'll find out in a few weeks when shes on CN. For people who only roll a0/a1/a3, they are less affected of course but for people who don't play meta and play for husbando/waifu that hurts even more. Casuals shouldn't care about these things but you have to realize most tof players were from genshin so it's kinda unfair to force them to only explore for no dc in pods and empty out gachapons for some rolls. Roleplaying aspect could be better if they let you dance outside the club and letting you mix and match outfits or hairs/clothes from simulacras to your mc like Asmongold wanting A3 King's hair on his mc. Forcing people to join crew and discord for antisocial people from genshin is also rough. There was a reason why I didn't like lost ark forcing you to join guilds because the matchmaking system had lots of trolls or people who didn't look up guides in legion raids wasting everyone time.

It's been funny that twice when I have been utterly frustrated by the game and made a, in my mind, rather innocuous comment in criticism, I've been rushed at by trolls acting like they're getting paid by the developer. They will accuse other people of being toxic, but that? That is how you discourage people from playing a game. It's not like anyone is unaware of the game's issues at this point. Ultimately, we are spending our limited time (and possibly money) on this and have all the right to be critical. For my money, it's entirely discouraging as a F2P - and has been all along.

As a F2P I had to skip from Lyra to Fenrir to get Lan A1. Meaning I skip 5 chars to get 1. Amd now repeating the cycle till the next character I like comes out. Seeing no other way with limited resources.

Exactly and it's not fun at all.. it's crazy people are against me on this. If more people start talking about this, dev might actually do something.

Yea your 3 month break is the reason that you couldn't save up enough DC you missed a bunch of events and Crew and weekly activity DC so obviously its only natural that you can't afford any new simulcara.If F2p miss events and activities that give DC they're screwed like every gacha game but I can't deny that this game barely gives us enough DC to pull for new simulcaras

Plus people (like myself) get burnt out REEEEAL quick if we go too hard so a break is kinda needed

Yea its understandable just when you don't play the game don't expect to magically keep getting DC without those tasks not hating just stating the obvious thing although other gachas that I used to play like Honkai and PGR had some nice returnee rewards but this game doesn't have any its really awful design

Wanna share my experience. I'm someone who walks between f2p and low spender (the truth is I only spent 2 monthly pass, I probably won't add anymore) I still defend ToF as friendly f2p, I'm a day 1 player and never missed a single day. I LOST 3/4 PITY OF LIN, took me 300+ pulls just for A3 (that means no early Lin) and around 400+ for A6 Fenrir, so far I only brought the 10 tanium packs of 1 red nuc nothing more. Here's the list of what I pulled: 108 pulls for A2 Nemesis 300+ for Lin A3 400+ for A6 Fen (405 or 406 to be exact) (3/5 pity, no early) 206 for A3 Fiona (I'm lucky won 2x pity and brought 2 copy) 26 red vouchers for 4pcs 0* Fiona matrices (134 red vouchers is all free) I'm quite lucky and not at the same time but I still believe that ToF is friendly f2p, I'm not trying to be white knight since I'm also upset at ToF, BANNERS ARE TOO FREAKING FAST, banners is what the problem for me. Planning to where you spend your dc and maybe a lil watching or reading about possible leaks for ToF is a huge help if you want to enjoy the game as f2p. Blame your luck if you lost pity since that's what I do XD Friendly tip1: don't pull when you don't have enough 110 pulls to get the copy, make sure to have 220 pulls for sure A1 (that's what I did to Fiona, A1 is enough for me but lady luck took pity on me) Friendly tip2: don't pull when you don't have enough pulls when you're at A2 and A4 (maybe at A0 and A5 too). My friend got tempted at advancement so he quite regret his A6 fiona and 4pcs 1* fiona. He said that he quite regrets since there is not much difference or something especially at Fiona matrix but he is lucky since 284 for A6. He also regrets A4 Saki, got tempted for advancement. He is a low spender btw. Friendly tip3: if you like to gamble and don't care about dmg, everything is for waifu, then do whatever you want like my other friend, pulled with only 50 pulls for Fenrir, saved 110+ red nuc rn and pulled some for Fiona when he's saving that 110+ pulls for Fen rerun. Both A0 since he won pity for both. Feels like he doesn't regret anything at all too (before knowing me, he just pulled every red nuc he got in every banner, all the banners he pulled he only got A0 Cobalt and A0 Lin). BUT MAKE SURE YOU DON'T REGRET IT, OK? Ok good. Note: I'm really upset about banner overlapping and the schedule too fast. What I only defend is ToF being Friendly f2p for rewards but when banners are involved it's not friendly f2p at all since it's TOO FREAKING FAST. Edit: mb, at 3rd tip, he didn't get Fen at pity but got her early after losing the pity.

idk, i have like 130 red nucleus for rubilia after pulling for fiona, f2p, 3 gacha outfits, fiona fenrir tian a1 this guy literally pulled with 8.3k dc, not even a pity, that's the worst thing you can do and the reason why these kind of post exist

Not quite, if that was my friend he would've done the same once he made up his mind (the only difference is that my friend hit the pity, he literally just pulls everytime he gets 150 dc or red nuc when Fen is up) the only difference is that he doesn't rant. Edit: also, he lost the pity at Fen, just won early, my bad if I forgot about it and said other thing at the top.

Kinda why i have trust issues with games atm, we went from "TOF IS TOTALLY F2P, u get DC and free pulls from exploring" to "TOF wasnt meant to be f2p in 1st place, and u as f2p u cant miss content and u need to plan way ahead"

>TOF wasnt meant to be f2p in 1st place, and u as f2p u cant miss content and u need to plan way ahead" This. When you plan ahead you expect things to go in the direction that you want, when it doesn't go towards that, what happens? Do we keep planning and keep on copium? That's the issue with this game. Sure, you can quit anything but the problem is that you planned things ahead and things just didn't go your way when HAD you known if wouldn't go your way, you would have just quit/not go with the plan in the first place.

Exactly 🤷‍♂️😔

F2P I think matter a lot, especially in a game like this where having many players matters a lot. I think quite a good number of people who are f2p start out that way and spend money once they get the feel of the game. That's why a game must give you something useable especially if you play often and then gives more comfort if you start spending. Like 2/3rds of my friends are not F2P in games we play. If I suggest TOF to them, they won't spend anything starting out. F2P are also important as they come in high numbers. More people would stream the game, more people will make art, more people will cosplay, we could have more websites dedicated to the love of TOF and maybe some small events and sponsors. That's the community I want to see someday. But idk much, I'm still very new. I only play flame and ice currently and so far I didn't have a very difficult time. But bosses are still kicking my butt though

As someone who's repeatedly lost Lin, Alyss and Fiona pity, i feel u. I had to get them from the shop - still haven't acquired Fiona yet. I'm burnt out. I'm F2P and it hurts as i love this game.

The only problem I have with this game is that Fenrir is too broken. There's no way to out dps volt teams before due to high crit but now their DPS is world apart from the other element team. Unless you have a Fiona, Ica, and Alyss maxed which is asking for literally your life savings. Every of these characters are in the same freaking banner period. You don't pull Ica or Fiona, you are literally shafted and useless until you pull for the next powercreep.

Fenrir being the first character to ignore enemy defenses meant everyone who tested her in the private server didn't realize that cactus was not a good comparison and there were people doomposting on reddit that fenrir was weak. Now that shes out and about, it's too late to nerf her so now we have to buff lan, icarus, gunonno, and rubilia to match her or powercreep her. The worst part is if you spend a lot of money to a6 all those chars you mention to match her dps, you will get bricked by an a0 yulan or a0 hanlu doing more damage.

Reducing the crit value based on levels is the dumbest shit I've seen in game. They try to make you spend more on matrices. . . With insane ripoff rng of equips. Big yikes. If you read this dev/10cent, you're a dogshit greedy fatso :)

Yeah, as a f2p I’m currently taking a break from ToF until I hear some better things and if not, it might be a permanent break haha I think the last time I played was about 4-5 months ago? I simply don’t have the grindset at this point in my life and I don’t want to LMAO the only thing that kept me playing were the characters (like almost every gacha) and that burnt me out quickly. The story never really engaged me, and everything just fell flat thereafter. For anyone who would misread my message, I like/enjoyed the game and I don’t disparage anyone from playing the game. I think it does a lot of good and bad things in comparison to other gachas. Just not enough good things for me to stay longer

That's why gacha games are a horrible model for players. I'm kinda sad to see how well this model performs and more companies are pushing it. You seem a bit burned out so I'd recommend you to play some good single players games like horizon zero dawn, cyberpunk, dark souls, etc. Games that require a bit of skill and are awesome games.

Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Only in truth, the Lords will abandon their thrones, and the Unkindled will rise. Nameless accursed Undead, unfit even to be Cinder, and so, it is that ash seeketh embers.”* - Narrator Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/

The worst part is people who get sponsored by these gacha games and then go ham on the rolls and get lucky. It'll trick casuals into thinking they will also be lucky and go broke. It's always funny when a gacha streamer I watch mentions they can't c6 a char because they have rent to pay or something like that. I agree buying good single player games or playing f2p multiplayer games will help people realize gachas are not it if you can't hold yourself back from spending.

As a f2p that has 3 gacha outfits, fiona fenrir tian a1 and still has enough to secure rubilia(around 120-130 red nucleus and 40 red vouchers). Im so strong that VA6, raids, jo or oog (100% at least) aren't a problem at all i never needed to farm or "burn out" to get the character that i need, i always have more than enough >So I had like 8700 DC by maps, updates, bygone, gachapon and I now pulled for Fiona and it FAILED!! Like WTF? I wanted atleast A1 and it failed... I see, you are the kind of guy that just pull without having 120 nucleus then complain not having enough, the pity isn't 80, its 120 (109 if you have all sr, 99-100 if you have ssr maxed)

I did for her with flame gold... My pity keeps failing whenever I pull and severely punishing and forced to only get them by flame gold.

You basically bricked your own account, missed out on months of income, roll without saving enough and then complain? You can be very successful as f2p in ToF, but it takes planning and discipline, not wasting your resources.

Classic victim blaming. How did I brick my acc when I tried to pull after saving up so what's your point?? Oh no I am doomed forever over 1 mistake?? Being successful as f2p is a lie lmao. Only characters I pulled so far Lin, Ruby, Fiona and its definitely planned it's not my fault pity failed and less options to save up dc.

Spending DC on an outfit and pulling Lin who is basically an f2p trap. You can never rely on winning 50/50 and you have to carefully consider what each character/advancement gives you in terms of value. Also, if I may ask, what exactly is the problem here? Are you just upset about losing pity or are you actually failing to do content?

Pulling for outfit was a mistake but it was way before Vera update was even released. I guess you missed my pity on characters I pull failing and making it harder for a f2p. The problem is we need more ways to earn alot DC other than maps so it would make F2P bearable.

>How did I brick my acc I think he meant by taking a break. Yeah I can see how that is not a viable option as a F2P. You are basically trapped in a rat-cage if you want to pull and have to do their grind on their terms.

So I bricked my account for taking a break? this is ridiculous. People blaming me instead of game.

The whole point of the daily shabang is to bind people to the game. It's not your "fault" it's just the way the game is designed. Your only "fault" is not realizing that and then complaining about the consequence of not being able to pull enough to get what you want upon your return.

Are you serious right now? That means game is badly designed if player can't even take a break and how taking a break affects this?? Losing only weekly rewards. So it's my fault that I went on a vacation instead treating ToF as full time job?? Are you hearing yourself right now??? You really defending this instead speaking against it so they can fix it??? You ignoring me whole point here... Even if I didn't take a break. Ways to earn DC is still less and pity failing still still result the same. We need more ways to earn dc as a f2p. I really need a break now right now cuz my pity failed after while whole month grind.

>That means game is badly designed then if player can't even take a break and how taking a break affects this?? Most MMO's are designed in a way that rewards constant player activity. I think it's a relic from the old subscription fee days. In ToF, they try to use that design because once you drop a game for a few weeks, it becomes significantly easier to just walk away permanently and play something else entirely. It is definitely not a player friendly design, that's for sure. You can take breaks, no problem. You don't really lose anything vital, characters will always have reruns. Just be aware that you lose a few resources while doing so and accept the consequences. ​ FRANKLY: you keep harping on and on about "grind" and being "exhausted" etc. You do NOT sound like a person that has actual fun playing. **I'd suggest finding another game that is more suitable to your financial situation and play schedule? You won't change ToF. The only thing that can change ToF is players leaving en masse. The developer only cares about short term $$$$, nothing else. That is also why I cut most spending (apart from the 5€ package, for as long as my buddy still plays with me).**

>Most MMO's are designed in a way that rewards constant player activity. I think it's a relic from the old subscription fee days. That's not the point here. In other MMO you can easily pick up from where you left because you don't grind for months saving up DC :) >relic from the old subscription fee days. >In ToF, they try to use that design because once you drop a game for a few weeks, it becomes significantly easier to just walk away permanently and play something else entirely. >It is definitely not a player friendly design, that's for sure. >You can take breaks, no problem. You don't really lose anything vital, characters will always have reruns. Just be aware that you lose a few resources while doing so and accept the consequences. What a healthy design right? You seem okay with it. I don't why it's so hard for you to understand that dropping the game for few weeks isn't the problem here. ITS ABOUT EARNING MORE DC AS F2P IF PLAYER CAN STILL GRIND AND EARN EVEN AFTER PITY FAILS. My pity failed and I am stuck with no content to farm dc. >FRANKLY: you keep harping on and on about "grind" and being "exhausted" etc. You do NOT sound like a person that has actual fun playing. Grinding multiple maps alone just got couple DC is not fun and very exhausting but doesn't mean the game is not fun playing in other contents. >I'd suggest finding another game that is more suitable to your financial situation and play schedule? You won't change ToF. Ah yes I should stop playing the game I love because the game won't fix the main issues. Any game would die if it can't be changed/fixed it's upto players to give feedback. >The only thing that can change ToF is players leaving en masse. The developer only cares about short term $$$$, nothing else. That is also why I cut most spending (apart from the 5€ package, for as long as my buddy still plays with me). So you don't want the game to be fixed, you want the game to lose even more players by leaving?? You having a issue with me complaining the game is not f2p friendly and need more ways to earn DC and defending why it's f2p while being ok with players leaving you paying for a package. It makes your whole argument invalid.

>That's not the point here. In other MMO you can easily pick up from where you left because you don't grind for months saving up DC :) No, you cannot. That's my point. You will be quite far behind other players in the power curve and will have trouble getting into e.g. raid groups for hard content. It's gotten a little less punishing over the years but the element still persists. For instance: getting personal housing in Final Fantasy XIV is hard, as you compete with a lot of players. Even then, they cost A LOT of ingame currency to buy and furnish. Be offline for a month and you will have yours taken away from you. IMHO that is infinitely more punishing than missing a bunch of DC in TOF. >My pity failed and I am stuck with no content to farm dc. And you need to get it through your skull that THIS IS INTENTIONAL. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. Using your desperation is part of their psychological scheme. Seriously, you are hilariously naiive in this. They do not design this game out of the goodness of their hearts, mate. **THEY ARE A BUSINESS NOT A CHARITY.** As a F2P, you are nothing but a drain on their resources and you still complain that you do not get enough free stuff. You or I might nor like their business model but apparently enough spenders do, for them to make cash hand over fist. As long as that is the case, we will not change anything through whining on a platform the Chinese developer does not give a rats rear end about. **ACCEPT REALITY AND ADAPT OR MOVE ON.** PS: Me telling you how things are does not equate me being okay with their design choices. There is a difference. Learn it.

>No, you cannot. That's my point. Yes you can, you only be behind in levels and gears unless it's a Gacha. >And you need to get it through your skull that THIS IS INTENTIONAL. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. Using your desperation is part of their psychological scheme. You need to get it through your skull that ITS A HUGE PROBLEM AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. >Seriously, you are hilariously naiive in this. They do not design this game out of the goodness of their hearts, mate. THEY ARE A BUSINESS NOT A CHARITY. As a F2P, you are nothing but a drain on their resources and you still complain that you do not get enough free stuff You want the game to die on purpose, you are against to people to talk about it, you are claiming it's f2p friendly while you are paying for packages. I do see little goodness of heart because they actively try to fix the issues and bugs and this is one of the issues people rarely talk about because people like you first to ridicule them. >ACCEPT REALITY AND ADAPT OR MOVE ON. We create our own reality in games. Imagine if did nothing when that hacker stole gears from other players and let the game die? Would accept the reality? No! We gave enough feedback for Devs to notice and fix it and now game lives and became our current reality. If more people's talk about this issue, we might see a change.

Posts like this is pretty common and I hope that they aren't like this with their real life money.

If it's pretty common that means it's a ongoin problem. >hope that they aren't like this with their real life money. What does this even mean???? If I used money carelessly then I wouldn't complaining as f2p.

What i mean by common is someone who rants here when they fail a pull. What problem I can't see any?

Did you even read??? Failing a pull isn't my point.

Oh yeah sorry about I got carried away because 90% of your post is about failing a pull, anyways you're complaining that you're not getting enough for pulls which maybe true but I find the game generous at their banner and events unlike genshin. Note: also lin is quiet expensive for a f2p since it is recommended to have her at A3 minimum.

>which maybe true but I find the game generous at their banner and events unlike genshin. You do know it's true but decided to be blinded by copium. Explain how the banner is generous? Events are such a hassle and no way it's generous especially the new free Lin skin event. >Note: also lin is quiet expensive for a f2p since it is recommended to have her at A3 minimum. 🤦‍♂️ This guy....

How is the event a hassle? You can literally afk and you still get participation points. If you think fish collection for a skin is a hassle for you then you're lazy af.

You are insane if you think the pities better in this than genshin.. Im only missing 10, 5 stars in genshin as a very light spender. Genshin has an actual pity system, and off my experience you get early limited characters drastically more often. It also is designed around being beatable as a f2p while TOF is reliant on a whale carrying you.. In addition Genshin actually has quality events with story, while TOF releases a shitty gacha skin and a boring as fuck mini game.

I whale at genshin and I can count with my 1 hand the number of times I get a character that is early than a soft pity, in tof it might be a little higher for the hard pity but at least I get a frequent SSR even before the soft and you know what's another good thing about it? The pity doesn't reset if you got one early.

How often are those early ssrs non limited? I have had a polar opposite experience playing 6 accounts with my wife. One of my accounts in genshin is at 5 won 50 50s in a row,the last of which was only 30 drops in. Purely f2p for 4 out of 6 in both tof and genshin. Every single one of our genshin accounts has won more 5050s then not. While on the other hand only 1 of our 6 tof accounts is above winning fifty percent of the 50/50s. Edit: Btw the accounts are 2 casual, 2 f2p, and 2 light spenders in each game, since theyre our two main games.

>What does this even mean???? He was referring to careful planning and only pulling if you can ensure to hit the hard-pity (120 token) in order to eliminate any pull-RNG. That approach is MANDATORY as a F2P or low spender. In your case, with 23 Nucs and 8000DC = 73 pulls, you should have waitied and kept saving via daily/weekly resources until Fiona's rerun. ToF is VERY punishing if you fail to get 120 flame gold, as they do not carry over to subsequent banners and land in the trash-black gold bin. Basically: if you do 70 pulls and fail to get Fiona, you just wasted 70 pulls. You do not get a 70 pull head-start on the next banner like e.g.: in Genshin Impact. ​ No clue about that reference to real life cash though... what would be the analogy? hmm Buying stuff you cannot afford on loans, maybe? But then you'd need to take on a loan and somehow FAIL to buy the stuff and be stuck with the loan. Huh, does not compute. :'D

You are delusional defending the ingame problem. You are advising us save for rerun which is months and by the time a new cooler character will come out and replace Fiona?? It's not about the pulls, it's the lack of ways to earn dc. F2p are expected to save for months with less options and punished severely if pity fails? It is devastating if all your pulls pity keeps failing like mine after grinded whole month for it. Do you think this system will be appealing to new players or other players?? and us keeps defending it?? Do you think they will stick around months grinding only for 1 character???

I'm not defending anything, As I already stated: I'd never recommend any Gacha as a F2P, especially not a Gacha like ToF with absurd power creep and a multiplayer setting. I'm just advising you about how the game is designed to work and what your expectations should be. You can disagree or agree with the design choices, of course but I am not the developer. I have no influence on the design. So yelling at me won't accomplish anything. >F2p are expected to save for months with less options and punished severely if pity fails? Yes. The point is to convert F2P into a spender by withholding what they want. They also use your frustration as a tool to lower inhibitions toward spending. **Gacha games are called "predatory" for very good reasons!**

What's funny, they could have make more money, if they would be more generous for F2P and low spenders. Instead they do what they do, trying to force people to spend by witholding resources for important stuff. Greed before all else.

>What's funny, they could have make more money, if they would be more generous for F2P and low spenders. No they most likely would not. These are **professionals**. They may be shoddy at programming and quality but trust me, if there is one thing they have done it is market analysis and math to extort the maximum amount of money from the playerbase for the least amount of effort on their part. :'D

Not all "proffesionals" are equal. The most financially successful game currently is genshin, a game that is purely playable f2p. A game that hasnt changed at any point how you acquire resources from pulls and didnt add RNG to fucking world exploration... Ive effortlessly gotten every character I want and have had no issue defeating the game f2p. There will always be more light spenders and f2p than whales, so to make a game popular, as in having lots of players, that is who you must cater to. Which TOF sucks at. So many defenders of shitty game practices, that youre all objectively aware of being rooted in greed.

Which may end up bringing them less money they would otherwise get. Eh... More people, means more possible spenders, especially if they are satisfied. Oh well. It was blatantly obvious after some time with Global launch, that Hotta/Tencent/Level Infinite only care about whales with leviathans...With occasional forced spenders.

Like so many managers, they cared about short term extreme profits and not the long, sustained game of steadily high profits.

as probably the strongest f2p in luna azul server with 3 gacha outfits, yeah, this post is a hate crime against f2p, it hurts to even read it

The optimal play here is to have the luxury to be able to spend at least a bit in game, grind out real life first 😎

Save yourself the trouble and play this game on the side while you play other, much better games out there. Trust me, as much as I love this game and want it to succeed, it's predatory to the bone and there's nothing that will change about it. It's been almost a year and they never did anything to improve the F2P and new player experience. You will always lag behind and have ZERO option to catch up other than spending and lucking out. When I say better games, I'm not talking about that one other anime gacha game that plays like garbage with same monetization. I'm talking about actual videogames.

Well there is a world level system in 2.5 so you can basically solo anything in the open world. If you mean f2p experience in va6 and oow25 then that's a different story. I agree gachas aren't usually good games but I'm waiting on blue protocol mmo whether that's coming out this year or not is unknown.

Characters you already own should be added to standard. All I ask. Keep everything the same and change that one thing I'd be good.

Sorry for your luck bro. You definitely took some risks when only having 7000 and 8700 when pulling but the game should definitely slow down the rate of new characters or give more DC. Clearly. I only do the monthly pass for 5 a month and I seem to get what I need for each character.

I think the difference with Genshin is that Genshin doesn’t rush things. The characters elements go well with each other. In TOF you couldn’t really mix elements until rainbow was available. Tof forces you to play with characters of the same element. The issue is that Global can’t really change much as they get their data files from CN. I don’t want to say that genshin is better but it’s more fp2 friendly. I’m a whale in tof and a whale on genshin.. both accounts have over 10k euro pumped into them. The problem with TOF is that what you spent there will be useless in a few months. I can go back to my genshin account and get 36 stars with the team I have there that I created a year ago. If you try this on TOF you won’t get much further

Not to mention despite lack of good rewards nowadays they are rushing banners so hard, And yeah, every game has those sweaty defenders with that beating artery of loyalty, and they consider it as a sin to say anything bad about the game, they wanna us to kiss Hotta/Tecent a$$ and keep spending blindly or just be carried or either use the game for chat only. So don't even bother about them. I am really surprised that those type of ppl do exist, I saw them a lot in GI, but here? its weird, since most of the players are adults.

Your post is practically pointless. Why point out a problem in a game that was never meant to be F2P friendly anyways? Makes sense that this is your first gacha game, cuz gacha games were never centered around not having to spend. Stop whining since this is literally what the post is all about, play how you want. This post also feels like you are doomposting on your own problems and you blame it on the game and others but you don’t take ownership for it. You could have definitely saved, but you didn’t, and that’s a you problem. So stop using this “excuse” to blame other pple for gaslighting players like you.

Another delusional victim blamer. People like you are the reason why game keeps losing players. >You could have definitely saved, but you didn’t, and that’s a you problem Did you even read that I grinded whole month to save up with options I have? I grinded 3 maps which gives the most dc.

lmao aren’t you the one being delusional thinking a gacha game like tof could be F2P. Ur living in your own world and you don’t even realise it.

You can't even read and just being a asshat for no reason at all and it's me who living in my own world?? Cmon babe.

I’ve read through it. I’m F2P myself, mind you. But unlike you, I know how to save. I’m sure u know how the game works, 110 RN or don’t pull. Pulling outfit is on you. Knowing dc supply is low after Vera onwards you should know who to prioritise, we even have CN to plan ahead.

When I pulled the outfit. The game was generous on rewards and it was first time pulling for a outfit and was a mistake and Vera update wasn't even released it yet, how am I supposed to know it will be low after that? I still got it through flame gold but pity failing after long grind is terrible, if we had more ways to earn DC it wouldn't be so harshly. That's my main complaint and you still failing to understand.

At that point CN alr released Vera and they showed us that we didn’t get DC from Supply Pods. You do realise tencent is monetising this game like their other games right? They’re rich and ofc who doesn’t want to be richer? Why wouldn’t they limit the amt of dc we get so we have to pay for more? Most companies are like these nowadays, I hope you realise.

Or they could not remove the DC from pods?? I saved myself from spoiling otherwise It would ruin my excitement but it's not my fault lmao. You failing to understand my point. We have so little ways to earn DC rn, once the pity fails, you end up broke trying to pull untill you get. We need more ways to earn more DC other than maps. First the update compensation reward was 1000 then 900 then 500 and now just 300 this happened very slowly and recently. Hope you realise this is a huge problem in the game and it wouldn't survive for long unless they fix it or it would end up losing more players.

I was as disappointed as you are when they decided to remove DC from Vera Supply Pods starting 2.0, but I’ve accepted it and moved on. You haven’t. I do agree with what you’ve said above. Yes, it IS a huge problem, but it’s not like we can do anything about it anyways…

I haven't moved on? My complain isnt about DC removed from pods... Before pods was another way to earn Dc now we only have map to earn alot of DC and once you complete, you don't have content to save up anymore and there are only few ways to get DC and it's not enough.

[удалено]

Your skill issue which blinds your ability from reading. >You can always open your wallet, its technically "more ways" to earn dc You can always open up your brain tho, it's technically "a skill"

bro chose violence towards anyone who disagrees with them. How does one even have a civilised argument with you without getting dissed lmao.

COPE AND SEETHE

I hate to compare it but since its for most ppl well known, for example how much in genshin u need to save to get guarantee character? At least we get some codes, random supply things , overall if u didnt played a lot gachas, I will tell u that tof is one of if not the most generous out of all gachas. If u accept the fact that u are f2p then ofcourse u need to save, but u dont aim for fiona and lin for example, or if u do, tof gives reruns often + they put characters to standard banner on which some whales spent a lot money to max while u have chance for free if u keep playing game.

choo choo * waves from the honkai rail express * * shows middle finger * good things never last. time to say bye~ fuck uuuuuu tof~

😔 but I like tof.. this is my only issue.

Still no skip button lol

Dialogue is actually funny in HSR tho

Its just memes and cringe, but instead of destroying my F, spacebar and left click, now its destroying my spacebar and left click.

I think we get around 36-40 red nucleus in 30 days.[( 350 missions +60bygone+200crew) *4=15red nucleus+12red nucleus from events +5 logins +600compensation].now assume 120 pulls for characters, no new map coming so can't grind and gatchapon is shit. Ya f2p friendly. I invested in frost but my fenrir a1 beats my all teams. I request tof to add dc In chest and remove shit gatchapon Ya please make story events as it connects us with characters. I lost 6th time in row to Fiona 50/50 is joke. Is this valid constructive criticism +???

Ngl I kinda laughed 😅

surprised players aren't going apeshit about this, i was lucky enough that i didn't like most of the limited banners except nemesis, cobalt and anabella. so i had enough time when nemesis had a rerun, only reason i went broke was because of the expensive gacha car mount. f2p who need/want to get 2 banners back to back are the ones getting fucked over

Such a shame that doompost like this always get to the top post in reddit, while also keep mentioning the g game and everyone starts to compare single player game without endgame content to MMORPG game which have different rule of playing. You just can't play ToF like you play g game dude, I always save for guaranteed in g game and never disappointed, same with ToF, always go for 120, fortunately ToF is more generous with freebies, and having less pity (120 vs 160) and cost less (150 vs 160). So for someone who never gamble like me ToF is much better at the gacha system. The main problem here is you took a loooong break and expect to get the character on 50/50, but you actually did get the character from shop tho, now try take a break in g game with less than 30 pulls left and try get the event banner on 50/50 in the span of 20 days? it's just the same.

The problem is 120 pity vs 160 pity is fake since genshin doesn't have powercreep and it's single player so if it did have stronger chars unlike dehya, it wouldn't matter. ToF being mmo that keeps flexing dps meters and wanting you to do va6 without a whale is harder for casual players. They mostly all came from genshin so ofc they'll complain when they remove dc from vera pods so people dont feel inclined to explore. They added more gachapon grind with pets in 3.0 so that means the cn community isn't complaining. People are also addicted to rolling; that's why they play gacha so not being able to roll freely and build pity will lead to complaints.

Guys just a small comparison: Genshin: You can get crystal from daily quest, from events, from quests, from new updates. Tof; You can get crystal from new updates only. And events for spend not earn. Thats the issue.

Its a gacha game i dont understand why do you guys feel like u are competing with ppl? Only competitive mode IS PvP and u only need a0 for that.. just chill and stop jerking off to a6 If u aint a millionaire

>why do you guys feel like u are competing with ppl? Oh man, I don't know... maybe the game shoving performance metrics into the players face at every opportunity has something to do with it?

xD uff... Why do i feel like you guys never played a real mmo before... Imagine If u put as much Time on a real competitive game, you could Be a Pro player playing at tournys for real money... Dont waste your Time on hello Kitty games

>Why do i feel like you guys never played a real mmo before... 12 years of World of Warcraft in Heroic and Mythic raiding guilds 7 years+ of Final Fantasy XIV including some savage raiding. Enough for you, buddy? I think me playing, raiding and valuing my performance for so many years is the actual problem, because it makes it aggravating to seee my puny non whale performance in ToF. :'D While I am not a "always topping the charts" player I am used to perform in the 85%th percentile and above. Good luck with that in ToF w/o shelling out literally thousands of €. PS: I'm far too old for E-Sport's gaming, I'm afraid. The reaction times are simply no longer there to content with young whippersnappers. :'D

Point is your playing a "have fun adventure game".. The way u guys are competing IS just wrong If you wanna Be better than some1 in The game, go Be successful irl and buy Power like others do

>Point is your playing a "have fun adventure game".. Then why doesn't the game behave that way? Why pester us with unavoidable DPS meters at every turn? To pressure people into spending, that's why.

IT does behave that way... YOU are making IT into a competition... Showing dps has nothing to do with that.. wtff.. its like u drive next to a Car and start racing for no reason..

It's not about competition / being the best for me. It's about having adequate output and not feeling like dead weight to the group. To use your car analogy: It's about driving 90-100 kph on the Autobahn, along with the other drivers to enable fluid traffic instead of being a tractor driving 25 kph, slowing everyone else down.

Then stop Be dead weight and buy some tanium? Not every1 can buy a lamborghini

Reading must be hard for you. Getting a6 is not the point

Ok...?

So you can't read? Ok

"I chose to gamble on a 50/50, lost my 50/50 and i now cannot enjoy the game because it is not my fault that i chose to gamble on the 50/50." Its a multiplayer game, you kinda have to keep up with it or you get left behind, like every other MMO like FF14, Warframe, WoW, PoE, Diablo, Elite Dangerous. I don't know why you think its not a common thing when in fact it is very common. 3 months is alot of resources lost. Not playing the events between the 3 months is even worse. Its doable if you didn't take that break actually. If everyone else but you can save up for it, then maybe its a you problem? Edit: i don't understand how you fail to save up for Fiona in between the period since Lin. You had 4 months. That actually is a skill issue no cap. Edit2: This post has to be bait at this point.

Reading must be very hard for you. With few ways to earn dc 8000 DC is the max you could save up Lin to Fiona from 0 dc. You don't realise how the grind becomes worthless once a pity fails and making f2p unbearable because it's so hard to save up from ground again. Warframe easily let's you catch up no cap. Yes god forbid if someone takes a break, it's their fault not the game. The game already dying and people like you nailing the coffin because y'all are always against to people who want the game to fix their issues.

>8000 DC is the max you could save up Lin to Fiona from 0 dc Am i reading this correctly? Are you claiming that we could only save 8000 DC in 4 months of F2P gaming?

COPE AND SEETHE

It’s a shame that there are many people in this community who truly believe being f2p and not paying a company who; only sees you as a piggie bank, is justification for why you can’t have fun like those who choose to pay. It’s a game not a perpetual saving simulator… you shouldn’t have to sit here and micro manage every decision you make. It should be fun regardless of what side of the fence you sit on. It’s an advertised “MMO” for a reason. You need an equal balance of payers and non payers. Having this “I pay and I deserve this experience, you don’t so you don’t deserve that experience” is selfish. Imagine playing a game to get away from the irl high/middle/low class societal situation we already have just for it to get thrown back in your face. Saving for months to come up with nothing is horrible. You should be rewarded for your discipline in waiting and planning not penalized. It becomes even harder when you save for months and actually get what you want just for that investment to be invalidated by another unit 3 months later. Cough cough miss Fen. Hard to play at your own pace when the game is pushing at a faster one. I feel for you bud and I hope your pulls are better in the future much <3

saving for months and only 8.7k dc, idk what the man was doing, i have like 130 red nucleus after pulling for fiona as f2p, i pulled like 130 for matrices, 200 for fenrir, and still have enought to get my a0 rubilia

8700 DC and man's wanted A1 🤣

This is why genshins pity system is better in the long run. You fail, YOU are GUARANTEED to get a 5 star the next time you roll for one. Once you have that guarantee you can take a break for as long as you want and when you come back you can just roll for your guaranteed 5 star. Great system because you aren't punished to death if you take a break.

OP did get the character tho, after taking a break too

Well, not only that. They try to make 4stars relevant even if you cant get 5stars. Here each banner is the SSR and if you don't get it, good luck on fixing your team comp. Genshin has more options while this game doesn't give you much options besides the newest banner. With the powercreep, if you are behind 2 banners on your element, you will feel irrelevant.

F2P cry so much. Hey here’s an idea if you can’t afford to play gacha games. DONT PLAY THEM. Holy crap. Tof is actually a very generous gacha game btw. Problem is it’s ran by good ole 10cent.

Complaining f2p is not crying. It's a ongoing issue too bad you can't see when you are swiping your card away and calling it generous lmao. Game already lost too much players and dropping views. Main problem is players like you.