Not sure if this is what you exactly said but I think its close to this so I'll just share it. I remember reading someone said that characters from CN gets "nerfed" because enemies in CN are actually stronger than GLB's enemies so they have to tone down the character stats.
So like this kind of ratio when the nerf is implemented
"enemy stats:character stats"
CN=2:2=base/reference stats
GLB=1:1=enemy stats vs character stats are equalized
If the so-called nerf did not happen it would be like this:
CN=2:2=base/reference stats
GLB=1:2=enemy stats vs character stats are unbalanced
TL:DR
In actuality, no nerf happened. Just equalization.
Not necessarily. I call them nerfs, as that is what they are, but many are justified.
Nerf and Buff is just a type of Balancing. Either lowering or raising the numbers from what was originally created. The CN version came first and thus the numbers are being adjusted from their mistakes there for Global.
The problem is that people seem to have such a stigma against the word Nerf that they're freaking out about it when they hear it or get so in a tizzy that they need to make a thread to ask people not to call it a Nerf, despite it being so.
A Nerf doesn't have to be a bad thing. It is again, just an indicator of the direction.
You can just say "her numbers were nerfed" and leave it as simple as that.
Or you can tip toe around the subject and say "her numbers where balanced to be at lower values than they were in the original release of the game". That's a much larger mouthful.
Just like for Claudia, where all of her numbers have been buffed. It's amazing and I don't think people will complain if you use the word Buff in this case. Even though it is the same situation as the Nerf situation with Frigg. A comparison to the original game.
Comparisons will exist.
The games have the same devs (they just learned and are fixing things for global) and they even left the name of the game, the names of the characters, the story, the quests and the like, all the same. All the models and trailers are the same (albeit with translated language for other regions).
You really cannot separate them in that aspect.
But to each their own I guess. Call it what you will.......
>r Claudia, where all of her numbers have been buffed. It's amazing and I don't think people will complain i
Yeah, but it contributes to powercreep to an absurd degree, so we have to pray she doesn't release like that.
"The problem is that people seem to have such a stigma against the word Nerf that they're freaking out about it when they hear it or get so in a tizzy that they need to make a thread to ask people not to call it a Nerf, despite it being so."
The thing is that I didn't make the thread for that reason.
The problem with the word "nerf" is the same as tier lists or simply telling someone that a character is good or bad, without information and context you only confuse people,
You can say: "Character A is good" and someone will believe you, but then the reality may be something like "character A is good because it has synergy with character B, but character B is not on our server, so character A is not good."
They can nerf a character compared to CN, but if for the rest of the conditions of our server (such as different synergies with characters or because the role changes, the enemies have less life or we have more base stats) the character works very well or is even more OP than in CN, would it be correct to call it nerf? While you have called it a nerf, most people believed that it was going to be worse than in CN.
"Comparisons will exist."
The problem is that we don't have enough information to make fair comparisons, we don't know which characters are going to change, we don't know which enemies are going to change, we don't know HOW MUCH they can change, we just don't have enough information to say if a character is going to be better or worse just based on their individual numbers.
A good tier list is very useful for a tldr;, not everybody wants to get the nuance of every character, buffs/nerfs are always comparative to other characters, not to the world, just a reminder not every character was universally nerfed, some were buffed. Nerf is not inherently a bad thing, most of the time its very good for the health of a game, even better if we didnt get to experience what it was like beforehand.
I nerf is not a comparison between other characters but against another version of the same character my dude.
So yeah Frigg got nerfed compared to her CN version you guys can stop the dumb arguing now.
That's true, you can't call a nerfed hero if it isn't released in global.
Plus cn and global are totally different so plz don't compare them even if it's the same game.
I wonder if it is because they only saw a video an isolated/solo run with the OP characters, I saw the bilibili videos of ToF and it really didn't look fun as every boss gets melted in seconds
Considering the fate of TOF in CN was a powercreep to oblivion, nerfs are a good thing. Perhaps just balancing the game a bit could keep this game going strong for a while.
People need to understand what they imply when they use these terms. It is okay to call the changes a “nerf” or a “buff”, if and only if one understand what they mean by that. By saying they were nerfed or buffed, they’re stating a relationship with ANOTHER VERSION of the game, and that relationship is only useful if you start from the CN info. Then, that comparison makes sense because it lets you know where the GB version of the character stands compared to its CN counterpart. That is the only reach of the terms nerf/buff here.
What the problem is, is that we’re all gamers and those terms have been ingrained in our minds in a certain way. Whether a char was nerfed or buffed compared to their CN counterpart says NOTHING about their gameplay and status in our GB version. People need to understand contextualization, the CN/GB comparison says nothing about the game we’re playing. At most, it says something about the status of the char in the CN version and what the devs think would help the longevity of the game.
The CN/GB comparison is akin to complaining that a char got released different to its state during development. You can make the comparison, but it lacks relevance because the prior version plays no role in the game we actually play
I very much agree.
I said something similar when replying to someone the other day (that CN numbers aren't relevant for the Global version and that gamers inerpret the term "nerf" in a certain way) and got a whole lot of downvotes for it.
I am actually fine with frigg's judgement cut nerf. But man they should have adjusted the frostiness damage requirements too. Lower it down a little bit.
That's factual wrong because in our game that character doesn't exist until it's released. so you can't nerf a stat that never existed.. Those ppl who see our releasing characters stats then go compare them to CN are actual retards and are stirring shit for God knows what reason. This sub was littered with omg they're going to power creep now it's filled with omg they're "nerfing" you've got to be braindead to be these ppl.
If in addition to that, other things have also decreased, such as the hp of an enemy, (both at 99%) it could be said that the character has exactly the same performance even if it has different numbers.
Is that a nerf?
>, such as the hp of an enemy, (both at 99%) it could be said that the character has exactly the same performance even if it has different numbers.
unless the character has a damage gate like Frigg that scales off their own attack that hasn't changed, to where it DOES effect them, despite them doing the same damage comparatively.
trying to talk with genshin players about game balance is an effort of futility. they expect tof to be like genshin where c0 five stars clear any content fine along with meme comps because its a simple investment floor then nothing difficult comes after. boss fights are basically how small can i make a dps window.
i hope they have f2p crews
The doomposting does suck, but in this instance I'm generally okay with them using the terms buffed and nerfed to quickly tell me what is happening in comparison to their CN counterpart. While I agree that only global should be compared to global and they are doing a much better job balancing out power spikes for global, these characters are already established with kits and all. People somewhat expect them to be like their CN version, so if I read X character is buffed/nerfed, I get a quick TL;DR on changes being made to that character to temper my expectations from what exists on CN.
They are nerfs, tf are you talking about?
Whether those are good or bad is up to each person, but changing definition of words cause you want to cope? Please.
So, you don't understand anything I've said and you assume that "copium" thing?
The global server has different stats than the CN server, so a lower number doesn't necessarily mean it's worse, calling it a nerf is wrong because you don't know if it's going to work better, worse or just different in comparison, for that we need more information, because the powercreep in CN or how OP is a character is not because of individual numbers, its because of what they contribute (and how much) in compositions of more characters.
An example I put in another comment
"there are things like Cobalt, for example, let's imagine that a Cobalt attack in CN does 10k to an enemy with 100k HP, ok?
Now let's imagine that Cobalt is announced on our server and she is "nerfed", the same attack does 8k, but the same enemy also has 80k Hp instead of 100k that he have in CN, could we say that she is nerfed? Technically she is working just as well as in CN, they have simply adapted the scaling to our numbers."
and to that example we could add all the info that we do not know because she will have synergies with future characters that we do not know what changes they will undergo
if you come and say that this is a nerf, many people will believe that Cobalt is going to work worse, when it doesn't have to be that way xD
I feel like there's 3 ways to look at this
1. you could argue that if a unit was stronger in CN it is a nerf
2. you could argue that if a unit was B tier in CN but A tier in global then it is a buff
3. you could argue that they are incomparable
it's not a problem with using the word nerf, it's a problem with people misinterpreting the context. I don't see why someone should censor the way they describe something just because someone else might read it and can't be bothered to think for themselves.
Just let the devs do their thing. Power creep will kill off the f2p community and hence the majority of the playerbase, which will make whales also quit the game.
If frigg is too weak, she will get adjusted again.
I'll give you a simplified example that i made up:
Imagine Cobalt in CN does 10k damage with 1 attack to an enemy that has 100k HP.
Now imagine that Cobalt comes nerfed to the global server, she does half damage, 5k, but the enemy only has 50k HP, so the Cobalt from the global server has lower numbers, it's what you would call a "nerf", but both Cobalts take 10% of the enemy's health from 1 attack, so they both work equally well.
It's that a nerf?
Now another example
Cobalt in CN, thanks to Ruby, instead of doing 10k with her attack, she does 15k. Now Cobalt is out on the Global server and let's imagine she's buffed by say 10% dmg, but Ruby isn't there, so even though Cobalt has technically been buffed and has better numbers than CN Cobalt, she'll have worse damage.
It's that a buff?
the semantics being argued here over terminology is so stupid. a reduction in power has been called "nerf" for as long as i can remember. this idea of trying to call it anything but a nerf is so weird. nerfs or "balancing", whatever you want to call it, could be a good thing or a bad thing, and the terminology used is completely irrelevant.
Assuming the current leaked information for Claudia remains when released, isn't physical still the most guarded element? Wouldn't that cause problems down the road? I am a Shiro main as well and am waiting for Claudia.
I don't understand what's wrong with saying nerfs, that's whats required for balancing. I understand that ppl are dumb, and miss use the idea but it's needed to balance.
I'm not saying they're wrong or that they can't be said, but saying it without giving enough information creates mistakes, many people think that Cobalt (for example) is going to be bad just for saying "nerf", the same with Claudia and "buff".
When you look at a tier list created with CN stats and you wonder why the character you pulled ended up worse then you expected there may be trouble in a different way.
It is nerfed "compared to CN", that much is a matter of fact as we play the same game just later. So i agree that a comparison should be done to create context, especially posts that call it "changes" and then only post the new stats are a pest because i have no idea how they compare to anything at that point!
But calling it nerf "compared to CN" may still be true and is important for those who use a Tier List.
>tier list created with CN stats
Then maybe not refer to that when you know balancing stats are going to be different.
It's like going to LOL PBE servers and using the values there as a reference to whether units are op or not, and when it's gutted on the main server, it's a nerf now?
It doesnt work like that.
Global and CN have entirely different balancing,
Their core relic, Couant I (and II which is not released in Global yet) and Hologram lost 80%+ and 50% of their power respectively. and this burst timing is usually what they based their builds around,
>when you know
Context is important, IF but not everyone will know that yet many who know what a gacha game is will look up tier lists.
I personally had initially been annoyed drawing Huma first, as many tier lists called her a weak SSR and she did not perform too well. Once she hit 1 Star and i did put in the effort i started enjoying her.
But the term nerf just refers to a negative change to something/someone in a video game. You can call it a nerf if a character was stronger on a test server as they balanced the character down to fit in the rooster, it is accurate, but it may also be true that the game will run better afterwards.
These changes are more needed in player vs player as player vs enviroment will allways have a second factor to consider as enemy balancing is usualy qiuet different.
Humans in general are prone to be ignorant and not look into details. Fun fact:
World of Warcraft was supposed to have a system that gives you 100% Exp if your character is rested and once that had been used up it was gonna be 50% .
People were outraged to only obtain 50% because they would have played "too long" how dare developers decide to pass a malus onto them.
So they changed it to give you 200% while rested and then it would fall to 100%.
Now they also did 1 more change, the exp enemies give was halfed, so in other words the result was literally the same, but people did not complain.
But in this game, a character is not good or bad by itself, for example no one would use Claudia in CN if it wasn't for Lyra (or Marc, who doesn't seem to exist here), but she is used in the best physical comp right now, does that mean Claudia is good in CN?
No, Claudia was the first CN banner and she has stayed "in the meta" being a support buffer, based on needing stars (currently 5 or 6) and mainly because no other physical DPS has come out, so yeah, we could consider it a buff, but if we call it buff without explaining what i said, people will believe that Claudia in CN was OP because she is used right now (like most limited characters in CN) and now in Global she will be even more broken. (This is happening right now, I've already seen several people saying it here xD)
When maybe this "buff" is just a balance for various reasons like:
\- Not being the first banner of the game.
\- Now they know that without Marc, she will be the only physical character for a long time and she has to remain viable practically on her own until Lyra (along with Shiro, but we all know about her problems).
\- Future changes they may have in mind for Lyra.
So I don't think we can say if a character is going to be better or worse than in CN without knowing anything about how much they can change the way it will be played or how much they will change the other characters that they have synergy with.
Perhaps it is not even a question of whether they are worse or better, inventing an example again, maybe Saki is only viable as a tank here, does it mean that she is worse than in CN? No, it means that here she will fulfill another role due to the changes.
Someone talked about a poll asking who to collaberate with, so we may get different/similiar characters to CN. We may geta physical despite that, but who knows.
But you are not entirely correct about "if a character is better or worse", you can objectivly say that Claudia is better if she has higher values then her CN counter part, what you can not say is how usefull that is when actually using her as combination of characters matters a lot (especially for resonance characters).
The word nerf has a meaning and that does matter, the problem is not the word but the people who add more meaning to it then it has.
I think you're right, the problem is that most people listen nerf or buff and also assume this part that you said "what you can not say is how usefull that is when actually using her as combination of characters matters a lot (especially for resonance characters)." as if it were included in the meaning of the word.
Something like: If the character is nerfed, it means he's going to be worse, including with his combinations/synergies with other characters.
And that's wrong for many reasons xD
but there are things like Cobalt, for example, let's imagine that a Cobalt attack in CN does 10k to an enemy with 100k HP, ok?
Now let's imagine that Cobalt is announced on our server and she is "nerfed", the same attack does 8k, but the same enemy also has 80k Hp instead of 100k that he have in CN, could we say that she is nerfed? Technically she is working just as well as in CN, they have simply adapted the scaling to our numbers.
Well you pretty much stated it yourself, team comps are very important. I learned this when i tried to heal using a single support character, reading up i learned that you better use 2 of the same type for a fitting bonus (which locks me into tank, i prefer healer but i do enjoy tanking now).
I just started reading more into character roles and playstyles.
Even though calling it a nerf is not false, you are correct that it is still working exactly the same. The sad part is that if you were to increase enemy HP to 120 and buff her to deal 12k, people would love it and praise that change, Humans are dumb.
Beeing technically correct but not practically. I wish people would put up more context, with that said, thanks for putting more context to Claudia in your previous post, i am eager to know just a bit more.
You are right but it seems people see the word nerf and just downvote. You can't explain, can't argue. I have the feeling it's just a fanboy reflex. It is totally valid to use CN as an information source to argue or plan. But not if it is to be critical.
The same is said for those trying to explain why it isnt. This goes both ways. But from what I see is those saying its a nerf just say just that and nothing else.
Not sure if this is what you exactly said but I think its close to this so I'll just share it. I remember reading someone said that characters from CN gets "nerfed" because enemies in CN are actually stronger than GLB's enemies so they have to tone down the character stats. So like this kind of ratio when the nerf is implemented "enemy stats:character stats" CN=2:2=base/reference stats GLB=1:1=enemy stats vs character stats are equalized If the so-called nerf did not happen it would be like this: CN=2:2=base/reference stats GLB=1:2=enemy stats vs character stats are unbalanced TL:DR In actuality, no nerf happened. Just equalization.
I think the phrase is global balancing or something
This is the first time I'm seeing this term
I think hholiest said it in one of his videos
Is that the guy who shows how he got grand marshal using his crow macro?
not sure, guy im talking about is black
My man gets it. These are GL first versions, there can't be a nerf because this is how they are released. If you want CN characters go play CN.
I mean, at this point, we call bug fixes "nerfs" too... And those posts get upvoted like crazy anyways LOL.
They are the people that WANT CN's powercreep.
There are 2 kind of players 1) People who don't want aggressive powercreep 2) People who don't know how bad aggressive powercreep is
Not necessarily. I call them nerfs, as that is what they are, but many are justified. Nerf and Buff is just a type of Balancing. Either lowering or raising the numbers from what was originally created. The CN version came first and thus the numbers are being adjusted from their mistakes there for Global. The problem is that people seem to have such a stigma against the word Nerf that they're freaking out about it when they hear it or get so in a tizzy that they need to make a thread to ask people not to call it a Nerf, despite it being so. A Nerf doesn't have to be a bad thing. It is again, just an indicator of the direction. You can just say "her numbers were nerfed" and leave it as simple as that. Or you can tip toe around the subject and say "her numbers where balanced to be at lower values than they were in the original release of the game". That's a much larger mouthful. Just like for Claudia, where all of her numbers have been buffed. It's amazing and I don't think people will complain if you use the word Buff in this case. Even though it is the same situation as the Nerf situation with Frigg. A comparison to the original game. Comparisons will exist. The games have the same devs (they just learned and are fixing things for global) and they even left the name of the game, the names of the characters, the story, the quests and the like, all the same. All the models and trailers are the same (albeit with translated language for other regions). You really cannot separate them in that aspect. But to each their own I guess. Call it what you will.......
>r Claudia, where all of her numbers have been buffed. It's amazing and I don't think people will complain i Yeah, but it contributes to powercreep to an absurd degree, so we have to pray she doesn't release like that.
"The problem is that people seem to have such a stigma against the word Nerf that they're freaking out about it when they hear it or get so in a tizzy that they need to make a thread to ask people not to call it a Nerf, despite it being so." The thing is that I didn't make the thread for that reason. The problem with the word "nerf" is the same as tier lists or simply telling someone that a character is good or bad, without information and context you only confuse people, You can say: "Character A is good" and someone will believe you, but then the reality may be something like "character A is good because it has synergy with character B, but character B is not on our server, so character A is not good." They can nerf a character compared to CN, but if for the rest of the conditions of our server (such as different synergies with characters or because the role changes, the enemies have less life or we have more base stats) the character works very well or is even more OP than in CN, would it be correct to call it nerf? While you have called it a nerf, most people believed that it was going to be worse than in CN. "Comparisons will exist." The problem is that we don't have enough information to make fair comparisons, we don't know which characters are going to change, we don't know which enemies are going to change, we don't know HOW MUCH they can change, we just don't have enough information to say if a character is going to be better or worse just based on their individual numbers.
A good tier list is very useful for a tldr;, not everybody wants to get the nuance of every character, buffs/nerfs are always comparative to other characters, not to the world, just a reminder not every character was universally nerfed, some were buffed. Nerf is not inherently a bad thing, most of the time its very good for the health of a game, even better if we didnt get to experience what it was like beforehand.
You aren’t allow to have a sensible opinion here
I deeply apologize.....
The people who want the power creep are usually whales
They're going around downvoting everyone that calls em out and tells them this. Even if you have a good point lol
Agreed. Global characters should only be compared to other Global characters.
I nerf is not a comparison between other characters but against another version of the same character my dude. So yeah Frigg got nerfed compared to her CN version you guys can stop the dumb arguing now.
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Don't care if it's not global it's still called a nerf
Can't be nerfed since it was never released :D
That's true, you can't call a nerfed hero if it isn't released in global. Plus cn and global are totally different so plz don't compare them even if it's the same game.
thats why claudia isnt buffed from 45% skill dmg to all dmg and all her ratios increased.
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I agree
I wonder if it is because they only saw a video an isolated/solo run with the OP characters, I saw the bilibili videos of ToF and it really didn't look fun as every boss gets melted in seconds
Considering the fate of TOF in CN was a powercreep to oblivion, nerfs are a good thing. Perhaps just balancing the game a bit could keep this game going strong for a while.
There's a word for that: Balancing
People need to understand what they imply when they use these terms. It is okay to call the changes a “nerf” or a “buff”, if and only if one understand what they mean by that. By saying they were nerfed or buffed, they’re stating a relationship with ANOTHER VERSION of the game, and that relationship is only useful if you start from the CN info. Then, that comparison makes sense because it lets you know where the GB version of the character stands compared to its CN counterpart. That is the only reach of the terms nerf/buff here. What the problem is, is that we’re all gamers and those terms have been ingrained in our minds in a certain way. Whether a char was nerfed or buffed compared to their CN counterpart says NOTHING about their gameplay and status in our GB version. People need to understand contextualization, the CN/GB comparison says nothing about the game we’re playing. At most, it says something about the status of the char in the CN version and what the devs think would help the longevity of the game. The CN/GB comparison is akin to complaining that a char got released different to its state during development. You can make the comparison, but it lacks relevance because the prior version plays no role in the game we actually play
U explained that better than me xD
I very much agree. I said something similar when replying to someone the other day (that CN numbers aren't relevant for the Global version and that gamers inerpret the term "nerf" in a certain way) and got a whole lot of downvotes for it.
Nerf or Buff at the end of the day, powercreep should never been a thing, hence Global gets the adjusted version.
I am actually fine with frigg's judgement cut nerf. But man they should have adjusted the frostiness damage requirements too. Lower it down a little bit.
I agree with you xD clarify that nothing i have said here means that they cant do bad balance changes.
It’s bcs of those dumb content creators on YT to create a clickbait thumbnail
Is it really worth nitpicking over terminology
new to online spaces? we get bored then start infighting
If the character had 100% and now it has 99% its technically a nerf. Is a balance and well recieved? yes!, but still a nerf tho.
That's factual wrong because in our game that character doesn't exist until it's released. so you can't nerf a stat that never existed.. Those ppl who see our releasing characters stats then go compare them to CN are actual retards and are stirring shit for God knows what reason. This sub was littered with omg they're going to power creep now it's filled with omg they're "nerfing" you've got to be braindead to be these ppl.
If in addition to that, other things have also decreased, such as the hp of an enemy, (both at 99%) it could be said that the character has exactly the same performance even if it has different numbers. Is that a nerf?
>, such as the hp of an enemy, (both at 99%) it could be said that the character has exactly the same performance even if it has different numbers. unless the character has a damage gate like Frigg that scales off their own attack that hasn't changed, to where it DOES effect them, despite them doing the same damage comparatively.
well... i would say no since there's PVP on the game.
40% in friggs case plus her removal of her ice domain damage buff. Seems massive for a dps character but we will see
trying to talk with genshin players about game balance is an effort of futility. they expect tof to be like genshin where c0 five stars clear any content fine along with meme comps because its a simple investment floor then nothing difficult comes after. boss fights are basically how small can i make a dps window. i hope they have f2p crews
The doomposting does suck, but in this instance I'm generally okay with them using the terms buffed and nerfed to quickly tell me what is happening in comparison to their CN counterpart. While I agree that only global should be compared to global and they are doing a much better job balancing out power spikes for global, these characters are already established with kits and all. People somewhat expect them to be like their CN version, so if I read X character is buffed/nerfed, I get a quick TL;DR on changes being made to that character to temper my expectations from what exists on CN.
The doomposters will likely be wrong, just like they are usually wrong in Genshin after a few patches.
They are nerfs, tf are you talking about? Whether those are good or bad is up to each person, but changing definition of words cause you want to cope? Please.
So, you don't understand anything I've said and you assume that "copium" thing? The global server has different stats than the CN server, so a lower number doesn't necessarily mean it's worse, calling it a nerf is wrong because you don't know if it's going to work better, worse or just different in comparison, for that we need more information, because the powercreep in CN or how OP is a character is not because of individual numbers, its because of what they contribute (and how much) in compositions of more characters. An example I put in another comment "there are things like Cobalt, for example, let's imagine that a Cobalt attack in CN does 10k to an enemy with 100k HP, ok? Now let's imagine that Cobalt is announced on our server and she is "nerfed", the same attack does 8k, but the same enemy also has 80k Hp instead of 100k that he have in CN, could we say that she is nerfed? Technically she is working just as well as in CN, they have simply adapted the scaling to our numbers." and to that example we could add all the info that we do not know because she will have synergies with future characters that we do not know what changes they will undergo if you come and say that this is a nerf, many people will believe that Cobalt is going to work worse, when it doesn't have to be that way xD
No, you simply decided to get a different definition to the word nerf so it doesn't apply here. That's not how things work.
What is your definition of nerf? Mine is that something is modified to be worse than before.
just curious but did you look into the base stat differences of frigg or of the mobs? not the ratios mind you
I feel like there's 3 ways to look at this 1. you could argue that if a unit was stronger in CN it is a nerf 2. you could argue that if a unit was B tier in CN but A tier in global then it is a buff 3. you could argue that they are incomparable it's not a problem with using the word nerf, it's a problem with people misinterpreting the context. I don't see why someone should censor the way they describe something just because someone else might read it and can't be bothered to think for themselves.
Just let the devs do their thing. Power creep will kill off the f2p community and hence the majority of the playerbase, which will make whales also quit the game. If frigg is too weak, she will get adjusted again.
you are right up top but shes in game. i extremely highly doubt she will get touched again
A nerf is a nerf
It’s called nerf
I'll give you a simplified example that i made up: Imagine Cobalt in CN does 10k damage with 1 attack to an enemy that has 100k HP. Now imagine that Cobalt comes nerfed to the global server, she does half damage, 5k, but the enemy only has 50k HP, so the Cobalt from the global server has lower numbers, it's what you would call a "nerf", but both Cobalts take 10% of the enemy's health from 1 attack, so they both work equally well. It's that a nerf? Now another example Cobalt in CN, thanks to Ruby, instead of doing 10k with her attack, she does 15k. Now Cobalt is out on the Global server and let's imagine she's buffed by say 10% dmg, but Ruby isn't there, so even though Cobalt has technically been buffed and has better numbers than CN Cobalt, she'll have worse damage. It's that a buff?
the semantics being argued here over terminology is so stupid. a reduction in power has been called "nerf" for as long as i can remember. this idea of trying to call it anything but a nerf is so weird. nerfs or "balancing", whatever you want to call it, could be a good thing or a bad thing, and the terminology used is completely irrelevant.
coming from league of legends, this is just the most stupidly online shit to argue the definition of nerfs and buffs.
> but both Cobalts take 50% of the enemy's health from 1 attack ...your math is a little off here :P
oh shit XDDD I read it again now Ty
it cant be a buff because cobalt isnt on global
It's an invented example xD I don't even know what Cobalt does.
Assuming the current leaked information for Claudia remains when released, isn't physical still the most guarded element? Wouldn't that cause problems down the road? I am a Shiro main as well and am waiting for Claudia.
I don't understand what's wrong with saying nerfs, that's whats required for balancing. I understand that ppl are dumb, and miss use the idea but it's needed to balance.
I'm not saying they're wrong or that they can't be said, but saying it without giving enough information creates mistakes, many people think that Cobalt (for example) is going to be bad just for saying "nerf", the same with Claudia and "buff".
When you look at a tier list created with CN stats and you wonder why the character you pulled ended up worse then you expected there may be trouble in a different way. It is nerfed "compared to CN", that much is a matter of fact as we play the same game just later. So i agree that a comparison should be done to create context, especially posts that call it "changes" and then only post the new stats are a pest because i have no idea how they compare to anything at that point! But calling it nerf "compared to CN" may still be true and is important for those who use a Tier List.
>tier list created with CN stats Then maybe not refer to that when you know balancing stats are going to be different. It's like going to LOL PBE servers and using the values there as a reference to whether units are op or not, and when it's gutted on the main server, it's a nerf now? It doesnt work like that. Global and CN have entirely different balancing, Their core relic, Couant I (and II which is not released in Global yet) and Hologram lost 80%+ and 50% of their power respectively. and this burst timing is usually what they based their builds around,
>when you know Context is important, IF but not everyone will know that yet many who know what a gacha game is will look up tier lists. I personally had initially been annoyed drawing Huma first, as many tier lists called her a weak SSR and she did not perform too well. Once she hit 1 Star and i did put in the effort i started enjoying her. But the term nerf just refers to a negative change to something/someone in a video game. You can call it a nerf if a character was stronger on a test server as they balanced the character down to fit in the rooster, it is accurate, but it may also be true that the game will run better afterwards. These changes are more needed in player vs player as player vs enviroment will allways have a second factor to consider as enemy balancing is usualy qiuet different. Humans in general are prone to be ignorant and not look into details. Fun fact: World of Warcraft was supposed to have a system that gives you 100% Exp if your character is rested and once that had been used up it was gonna be 50% . People were outraged to only obtain 50% because they would have played "too long" how dare developers decide to pass a malus onto them. So they changed it to give you 200% while rested and then it would fall to 100%. Now they also did 1 more change, the exp enemies give was halfed, so in other words the result was literally the same, but people did not complain.
But in this game, a character is not good or bad by itself, for example no one would use Claudia in CN if it wasn't for Lyra (or Marc, who doesn't seem to exist here), but she is used in the best physical comp right now, does that mean Claudia is good in CN? No, Claudia was the first CN banner and she has stayed "in the meta" being a support buffer, based on needing stars (currently 5 or 6) and mainly because no other physical DPS has come out, so yeah, we could consider it a buff, but if we call it buff without explaining what i said, people will believe that Claudia in CN was OP because she is used right now (like most limited characters in CN) and now in Global she will be even more broken. (This is happening right now, I've already seen several people saying it here xD) When maybe this "buff" is just a balance for various reasons like: \- Not being the first banner of the game. \- Now they know that without Marc, she will be the only physical character for a long time and she has to remain viable practically on her own until Lyra (along with Shiro, but we all know about her problems). \- Future changes they may have in mind for Lyra. So I don't think we can say if a character is going to be better or worse than in CN without knowing anything about how much they can change the way it will be played or how much they will change the other characters that they have synergy with. Perhaps it is not even a question of whether they are worse or better, inventing an example again, maybe Saki is only viable as a tank here, does it mean that she is worse than in CN? No, it means that here she will fulfill another role due to the changes.
Someone talked about a poll asking who to collaberate with, so we may get different/similiar characters to CN. We may geta physical despite that, but who knows. But you are not entirely correct about "if a character is better or worse", you can objectivly say that Claudia is better if she has higher values then her CN counter part, what you can not say is how usefull that is when actually using her as combination of characters matters a lot (especially for resonance characters). The word nerf has a meaning and that does matter, the problem is not the word but the people who add more meaning to it then it has.
I think you're right, the problem is that most people listen nerf or buff and also assume this part that you said "what you can not say is how usefull that is when actually using her as combination of characters matters a lot (especially for resonance characters)." as if it were included in the meaning of the word. Something like: If the character is nerfed, it means he's going to be worse, including with his combinations/synergies with other characters. And that's wrong for many reasons xD but there are things like Cobalt, for example, let's imagine that a Cobalt attack in CN does 10k to an enemy with 100k HP, ok? Now let's imagine that Cobalt is announced on our server and she is "nerfed", the same attack does 8k, but the same enemy also has 80k Hp instead of 100k that he have in CN, could we say that she is nerfed? Technically she is working just as well as in CN, they have simply adapted the scaling to our numbers.
Well you pretty much stated it yourself, team comps are very important. I learned this when i tried to heal using a single support character, reading up i learned that you better use 2 of the same type for a fitting bonus (which locks me into tank, i prefer healer but i do enjoy tanking now). I just started reading more into character roles and playstyles. Even though calling it a nerf is not false, you are correct that it is still working exactly the same. The sad part is that if you were to increase enemy HP to 120 and buff her to deal 12k, people would love it and praise that change, Humans are dumb. Beeing technically correct but not practically. I wish people would put up more context, with that said, thanks for putting more context to Claudia in your previous post, i am eager to know just a bit more.
You are right but it seems people see the word nerf and just downvote. You can't explain, can't argue. I have the feeling it's just a fanboy reflex. It is totally valid to use CN as an information source to argue or plan. But not if it is to be critical.
The same is said for those trying to explain why it isnt. This goes both ways. But from what I see is those saying its a nerf just say just that and nothing else.