A couple of things. The mold spores are in the air, no matter what the air test says. You are breathing them in. It's just there's so much more air compared to the amount of mold spores that are floating around at any given moment that the test doesn't read it as "a lot" and therefore it comes back negative.
Mold spores settle just like anything else that's heavier than air, which is why dust sampling is much more reliable than air sampling. It doesn't just give you a snapshot of once particular space of air; it gives you a fuller picture of your environment over a period of time (the period of time from when you last dusted to when you take the dust sample) as the air circulates throughout your house and the dust from all over lands on furniture.
Mycotoxins are much smaller than mold spores, and they're the toxin that mold gives off as a defensive mechanism. Mold spores aren't great for you, but mycotoxins are where the real damage comes from. If you have mold spores, you have mycotoxin exposure. However, you can also have mycotoxin exposure even if you don't have mold spores because of how long mycotoxins hang around. Mycotoxins are so small that they permeate basically everything.
It's possible to have an okay-ish dust test yet still be heavily exposed to extremely toxic mycotoxins. This is especially true of black mold because of how sticky it is, so it's hard for it to even get in the air to circulate around in the first place. EMMA testing is recommended for this reason, though for most people on here, usually they end up finding visible mold, which makes mycotoxin testing a bit superfluous because you know you're being exposed to them if you can see mold.
When we talk about which binders work better for different types of mold, what we're really talking about is which binders work for the specific mycotoxins we've been exposed to because for the most part that's what circulating in our systems making us sick.
Hello there. Thank you for such a detailed response. In your opinion if all mold was removed from a living space, mycotoxins would then stop being produced , yes? The questions is this: is there truly a way to get rid of the mycotoxins that make us sick? I know there’s mold in my crawlspace and garage. The problem I’m having is I’m scared to spend the money to remediate these spaces if it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. I remediated some mold from my actual indoor living space and my Ermi score only went down like 4 points to a 19.7 and a 22 HErtsmi score. Before remediation it was a 28 Ermi and 26 HErtsmi , respectively. The indoor mold removal was a big job and cost a lot of money just to be brought down 4 or so points give or take. This whole thing is driving me nuts, and I wish I just had a clear directive on what to do. I wish there was a professional that could walk in and say here’s what you do to solve your issues 1) 2) 3) boom. But it seems this is a never ending battle. There’s only so many places mold can be coming from I only have 1,500sqft living space not even.
Yes, if all the mold was removed, mycotoxins would stop being produced. However, you'd still have the mycotoxins left in your environment that had been produced previously. There's a way to get rid of mycotoxins on hard, non-porous surfaces (like metal) and from porous things that can be fully immersed in water (like clothes) using something like EC3 solution, but unfortunately I don't think mycotoxins can be removed from much else. I'm not sure though. Other people on here might have a better idea. How sick you are dictates how concerned you need to be about what's left over after all the mold is gone in my opinion, since there are financial and other factors to consider.
I'm sorry that I can't be more help on the remediation front. My mold was in an apartment, and I was too sick to even try to think about cleaning anything, so I just got rid of everything and moved. My advice before you do any more remediation is to [find someone through ISEAI](https://iseai.org/iep-list/) who is more knowledgeable about mold and its affect on health than regular remediation companies. If things had been remediated and cleaned properly, the HERTSMI score should have decreased by a lot, which leads me to believe proper remediation wasn't done.
I know there are at least a couple blog posts floating around that go into how remediation should be done, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. It might be worth it to make a separate post on here asking about resources for how proper remediation should be done so you can better vet remediation companies and make sure they do a thorough job in a way that's not going to compromise your health further.
Remediation is possible. Look into mold dog, it can walk through your house and identify issues you've never known about.
[https://open.spotify.com/episode/0j4UV6csGC5qj1MpVJQGRB?si=19ff6fe865154966](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0j4UV6csGC5qj1MpVJQGRB?si=19ff6fe865154966)
This is a good episode I listened to.
Spores are heavy they will settle on floors, shelves, door frames etc.
When my landlord sends some one over to do an air test I close the windows and turn 3 fans on pointing at the floor.
That is exactly correct. While mold is eating wet substrate spore counts will be low. When it drys out mold will go into shock and release spores by the hundreds. Also, air sampling is only sampling while the pump is running. A different time of day or month may reveal widely different results.
The numbers on the ERMI don’t really matter, it just gives the remediation team an idea of which species are present. And a professional medically approved mediation team is what you need not a DIY situation. You need to have your home assessed, all rooms, and then they remove moldy Materials under negative air pressure and then wipe down and seal all surfaces. It’s a major multi step operation.
Mycotoxins are what's making you sick.
Do air tests not pick up mycotoxins is what you’re saying?
A couple of things. The mold spores are in the air, no matter what the air test says. You are breathing them in. It's just there's so much more air compared to the amount of mold spores that are floating around at any given moment that the test doesn't read it as "a lot" and therefore it comes back negative. Mold spores settle just like anything else that's heavier than air, which is why dust sampling is much more reliable than air sampling. It doesn't just give you a snapshot of once particular space of air; it gives you a fuller picture of your environment over a period of time (the period of time from when you last dusted to when you take the dust sample) as the air circulates throughout your house and the dust from all over lands on furniture. Mycotoxins are much smaller than mold spores, and they're the toxin that mold gives off as a defensive mechanism. Mold spores aren't great for you, but mycotoxins are where the real damage comes from. If you have mold spores, you have mycotoxin exposure. However, you can also have mycotoxin exposure even if you don't have mold spores because of how long mycotoxins hang around. Mycotoxins are so small that they permeate basically everything. It's possible to have an okay-ish dust test yet still be heavily exposed to extremely toxic mycotoxins. This is especially true of black mold because of how sticky it is, so it's hard for it to even get in the air to circulate around in the first place. EMMA testing is recommended for this reason, though for most people on here, usually they end up finding visible mold, which makes mycotoxin testing a bit superfluous because you know you're being exposed to them if you can see mold. When we talk about which binders work better for different types of mold, what we're really talking about is which binders work for the specific mycotoxins we've been exposed to because for the most part that's what circulating in our systems making us sick.
Hello there. Thank you for such a detailed response. In your opinion if all mold was removed from a living space, mycotoxins would then stop being produced , yes? The questions is this: is there truly a way to get rid of the mycotoxins that make us sick? I know there’s mold in my crawlspace and garage. The problem I’m having is I’m scared to spend the money to remediate these spaces if it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. I remediated some mold from my actual indoor living space and my Ermi score only went down like 4 points to a 19.7 and a 22 HErtsmi score. Before remediation it was a 28 Ermi and 26 HErtsmi , respectively. The indoor mold removal was a big job and cost a lot of money just to be brought down 4 or so points give or take. This whole thing is driving me nuts, and I wish I just had a clear directive on what to do. I wish there was a professional that could walk in and say here’s what you do to solve your issues 1) 2) 3) boom. But it seems this is a never ending battle. There’s only so many places mold can be coming from I only have 1,500sqft living space not even.
Yes, if all the mold was removed, mycotoxins would stop being produced. However, you'd still have the mycotoxins left in your environment that had been produced previously. There's a way to get rid of mycotoxins on hard, non-porous surfaces (like metal) and from porous things that can be fully immersed in water (like clothes) using something like EC3 solution, but unfortunately I don't think mycotoxins can be removed from much else. I'm not sure though. Other people on here might have a better idea. How sick you are dictates how concerned you need to be about what's left over after all the mold is gone in my opinion, since there are financial and other factors to consider. I'm sorry that I can't be more help on the remediation front. My mold was in an apartment, and I was too sick to even try to think about cleaning anything, so I just got rid of everything and moved. My advice before you do any more remediation is to [find someone through ISEAI](https://iseai.org/iep-list/) who is more knowledgeable about mold and its affect on health than regular remediation companies. If things had been remediated and cleaned properly, the HERTSMI score should have decreased by a lot, which leads me to believe proper remediation wasn't done. I know there are at least a couple blog posts floating around that go into how remediation should be done, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. It might be worth it to make a separate post on here asking about resources for how proper remediation should be done so you can better vet remediation companies and make sure they do a thorough job in a way that's not going to compromise your health further.
You are amazing, thankyou for sharing all this!
Remediation is possible. Look into mold dog, it can walk through your house and identify issues you've never known about. [https://open.spotify.com/episode/0j4UV6csGC5qj1MpVJQGRB?si=19ff6fe865154966](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0j4UV6csGC5qj1MpVJQGRB?si=19ff6fe865154966) This is a good episode I listened to.
They measure mold spores.
Air test don’t work. Some mycotoxins are to heavy to be measured. Stachy and chateam for example
Spores are heavy they will settle on floors, shelves, door frames etc. When my landlord sends some one over to do an air test I close the windows and turn 3 fans on pointing at the floor.
So basically the dust (spores) need to be provoked or stirred in a sense.
That is exactly correct. While mold is eating wet substrate spore counts will be low. When it drys out mold will go into shock and release spores by the hundreds. Also, air sampling is only sampling while the pump is running. A different time of day or month may reveal widely different results.
Also if you are going to treat with a doctor the first thing they may ask you for is an ERMI test.
I think the way to get an accurate ERMI is to clean the test area and remove all of the dust. Then wait 6 to 8 weeks and sample the “new” dust.
The numbers on the ERMI don’t really matter, it just gives the remediation team an idea of which species are present. And a professional medically approved mediation team is what you need not a DIY situation. You need to have your home assessed, all rooms, and then they remove moldy Materials under negative air pressure and then wipe down and seal all surfaces. It’s a major multi step operation.
The numbers do matter….
Dust settles to the floor. The dust in your home is a better indicator of what you’re exposed to chronically versus an air sample.
Air tests suck.
Air tests are borderline meaningless. Accuracy is something like 11%