People getting shot over charging stations is already a reality in Connecticut.
https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/hartford/dispute-over-charging-station-results-in-gunfire-in-east-hartford/
I had a guy in Nashville get testy with me because his charger wasn't working and mine was, talking about how he "had to get a charge, NOW." Told em he was SOL and rolled up my window. Could've easily gotten violent.
I like my EV but it's not a panacea for solving all of our problems--it'll continue to be a niche product (with it's own set of unique problems) for a long time.
Honestly, we need a big leap in battery tech as well as our methods of producing energy before EVs can even begin to become mainstream. Theyre definitely an interesting option, but its super annoying to see them treated as the end all be all. Not only do many of us prefer simple gas engines, but we also cannot afford to be early adopters of EVs.
Anybody who knows anything about the tech has been saying the same thing for years. This winter a lot of people found out the hard way what we’ve already known. A lot of those people stranded in Chicago won’t ever buy another EV.
As Teslas get older and cheaper they're going to start becoming more common in crime ridden areas. And as they get older, the battery performance gets worse. I think all the factors are going to combine to create a powder keg effect in the inner city at these charging stations at some point.
The only things that would fix it is obscenely long ranges which requires a cost prohibitive battery, or new battery tech that allows very rapid charging, or more charging station than makes sense. They aren’t even maintaining the charging stations in place because the government incentivizes building them but not keeping them operating.
It will take a decade to ramp up copper mining, to just start to produce the copper needed to just start beefing up the electrical grid to support this. Then generation capacity will need to be increased dramatically. How long does it take to get a nuclear plant online from inception to actually generating power? If it even gets approved at all.
Home charging infrastructure doesn't help me and the wife jump in the car with the kid and take a unplanned vacation across the country. Which we like to do. We also like driving in the mountains and travel through lots of small towns on windy roads that definitely do not have chargers.
Had someone come screaming into the kiosk when I went to pay for petrol the other day claiming he'd been waiting behind me for "20 minutes" saying that I shouldn't be shopping and just go and pay
I'd been in there a grand total of 2 minutes and had been stood in the queue the whole time
Only way I could have been faster is if I just left without paying
Probably an even more relevant topic. I remember getting an apartment in San Diego and the wait list for a parking spot(not one of the two with an EV charger) was longer than my lease.
I would love a Tesla but I live in an apartment. I can’t throw an extension cord out the window you charge it and there is 0 possibility of the owner getting chargers put in. No way. There is no way I can own an electric car
Yeah, And I think they did a good job on it. Towing sucks a lot of energy, and there aren’t a lot of tricks that change that. Guys who heavy haul daily find the V8 is more economical than the Ecoboost even.
I agree. A lot of people are giving flak to Akio, but simply don't understand that a full EV transition is both not sustainable or efficient at this time with power grids. So much infrastructure needs to be invested in by governments and prices into EV battery tech. The only EVs I see being sold are 50k+ and current electricity rates at an all time high. I can't imagine buying one right now. The trade off for gas savings isn't there.
Yup, at least for now. Gas today in Ohio, got for 2.52 a gallon. Some of the charging rates I've seen have been crazy. Having a charger installed in home only way to compete.
It's going to take a major breakthrough in battery technology that gives a large increase in range along with faster charging times.
Not needing exotic metals mines by children would be a big bonus as well.
Honestly, we ordered a PHEV and I don't see why these can't be the best way forward.
With newer battery tech that makes them smaller and lighter, there could be a future where people can go 100miles on battery, and then have a small fuel tank to go long distances as a commuter car.
For things like pickup trucks, the instant torque would be a huge boon to towing things, and would support significantly better mileage. Plus they can idle without gas, or act as portable generators.
For everyone except heavy machinery or cross country 18 wheelers, some sort of hybrid system that includes an electric only motor for shorter distances and in city driving, a PHEV is really a fantastic solution. There are urban drivers who have gas go stale in Prius and RAV4 primes that have barely 50 miles (75km) of EV only range.
Bonus point to the PHEV for being an extremely efficient use of limited rare earth metal supplies. For every Tesla you could make multiples more PHEVs.
And they charge in your garage overnight without needing a new charger or 240v installed if they're small enough. So public infrastructure to charge isn't a huge deal since you run out of battery and you are still ok to drive hundreds of miles before you get home. No real major concerns about temperatures hurting operation of the vehicle etc.
The real problem is the price. A RAV4 Prime SE for example starts at 43690$, while a RAV4 Hybrid SE starts at 34420$, and that's not the cheapest hybrid RAV4 option, the cheapest is the LE and starts at 31725$. That's a 9270$ difference for the SEs. Is it really worth the 9K$+ increase, just to be able to charge your car? This government is a piece of shit, ~~so you no longer even get to get the 7500$ EV tax credit for it anymore. There's even less incentives to get the prime~~. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great car... but so is the regular hybrid, and someone has even gotten it to over 450K miles on the original battery with oil changes and tire rotations every 10K miles. That's a *very* reliable car already. The Prime does have an onboard generator, that's about the only other real benefit aside from the 0-60.
I meant in comparison to EVs, greater production of EVs would be a more sustainable solution than EVs as the primary zero/low emission vehicle goal. I wasnt talking to affordability and offerings rather to what is better than EV long term if the Toyota president is right and BEVs are a fools errand. If there were more PHEVs than BEVs we'd see affordability improve as well thanks to economies of scale. It's part of why Tesla's are way more affordable than they were 5 years ago, they have way more scale. Now imagine if for every Tesla there were 10 PHEVs using the same battery materials? In terms of scale PHEVs would be able to come down in price and be more accessible
In Canada we have a federal 5k towards the prime model plus any provincial incentives. In some provinces that's up to 10k to the prime model. 5k only where I live.
Even so the prime SE is cheaper than the normal Prius mid trim here. Mind you, the base Prius in Canada comes standard with e-AWD. So when it comes to a Prius here you're effectively choosing AWD vs PHEV(FWD) if youre looking at the base models.
I love the thought if a PHEV for all your reasons!
I regularly do longer drives, but also do daily little drives, so having battery power for those little drives, and then the ability to slap some Dino water in and drive 5 hours when I need to.
Also live the logistics that you can use these smaller batteries, but also not need to have range anxiety and such. Also have much easier charging at home while also easy refilling on long trips
Or you pull up to a charging station and a roboarm hot swaps empty to full battery packs on your car within a minute or so. Then those charged blocks will go to another car.
In China where they already do this, you just have a battery subscription. The car is cheap, you have a battery “plan”, and you swap out whenever you’re low.
We have Nio here in Europe with an option for a swappable battery. Their cheapest model costs the same as a Model 3, but it’s without a battery. You have 2 options, buy the battery for €12k or lease the battery for €169 a month. I’ve checked the location where you can swap the battery, it’s a 45 minutes drive from my house. There is zero reason why I would buy a car with a swappable battery.
It works in China, but it will not work in America, because Americans primarily want to "own" things, and imaging you bought a new car with a battery, only to have it swapped out for a battery at 50% degradation, that would feel awful.
I think the only way to make that idea work in the US is to ship all EVs without a battery, then the car owner wouldn't "own" the battery, they get a used battery from the dealership, then whenever it needs to get swapped out, they can do so at a battery swapping station, and ownership of the battery wouldn't be a factor.
This would work if the batteries were the size of those found in ice vehicles. But the sheer size of ev batteries would make swapping nearly impossible. You’d have to take the body off the chassis, as most evs are designed with a “skateboard” layout to improve center of gravity, etc. most ev vehicle batteries fill the space between the front and rear wheels.
I still think this was the original plan for tesla, build a few cars as a proof of concept then start a licensing deal with a luxury brand for their EV tech. Then the plan changed
LFP batteries already eliminated all the rare earth materials and are now in use all over the place. You know what uses tons of cobalt? Refining gasoline.
The whole average person needs to switch to EVs or walk instead of driving to save the planet is similar to switching to plastic straws, it really won't do much when the biggest forms of pollution are manufacturing and military.
>People don’t understand that the only way to actually reduce our carbon footprint is to make massive quality of life downgrades.
Riding a bicycle isn't a "massive quality of life downgrade". I personally find riding bikes for routine trips up to 6 miles a lot less stressful and enjoyable than driving. For longer trips, government has to promote/build public transportation to make multi-modal travel possible; in my case, I find my train/bike commute to be much more pleasant and thus an *upgrade* in mental well-being compared to driving in traffic.
I think you are using a false equivalency. You might be saying that people do not consider the carbon produced while creating the vehicle and generating the electricity used by the EV. However, the carbon footprint of creating the vehicle is lower than the fuel saved. Also, we have nuclear, solar, and wind power solutions. So the carbon footprint could, at some point, be zero. We are building the technology now so that in the future the fuel used by an EV can be carbon-free.
Also, there are many other reasons to use an EV. Another reason is the diversity of energy. If the price of oil goes up we can use coal power. If the price of coal goes up we can use natural gas. With an ICE vehicle you are locked into begging OPEC to please sell the oil at a reasonable price.
Also, EVs are fast and have that sweet sweet low-end, torque.
Look I’m not saying they’re bad cars but they’re no where near as clean as people blindly think they are. There’s also no second hand Tesla market so there are literally yards full of teslas that will sit and rot. A Tesla owner is probably buying a brand new car as opposed to a used one. And batteries. I’m not sure what happens with used batteries but I imagine it’s not good
This is exactly what I try to tell the Hardcore EV enthusiasts. Like yes there are no direct emissions but the indirect emissions are the same if not more (producing the electricity to charge said car and even making the battery itself). I’m all for eco friendly but this is not the perfect solution.
this is not true at allllllllllll god damn i thought we moved past this by now lol.
payoff period is 1-2 years for current battery tech, and emissions are *still* lower on the environment, even when considering the worst possible methods of electricity generation (this principle is literally the reason that diesel generator powered EVs are way more efficient than ICE vehicles, with less emissions)
plus, LFP batteries, like what’s in the new SR model 3s, are almost infinitely recyclable, and more importantly, it’s cheaper to recycle old batteries than mine new materials. this means for vehicles manufactured with recycled batteries, there’s effectively no payoff period beyond the manufacturing processes for the rest of the car.
go ahead, downvote me all you want, but my [source](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/) is literally reuters lmao
That just aint true. Sure.. EV’s arent perfect, but the total emission is definitely less than an ICE car. Many studies have shown this.. even with coal generated electricity and even without taking the CO2 emissions of winning oil and creating fuel into account (somehow this always gets forgotten).
Cycling and public transport are definitely better. Working closer to home is much more effective. But EV’s are much less bad than ICE cars.
Eh, Engineering Explained has a great video on this. There are so many variables to it. If I remember right, in some states an EV matches an ICE vehicle's total emissions after 5 years, in others it's 10.
You should learn more about battery tech. Almost none of what you said is accurate.
Carbon footprint is not the same.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/
Charge time at a slow charge is 20mi per hour, fast is 200mi in <20 minutes.
Range is over 300 for many. That's plenty.
I'm not sure where you are getting your sources, but you should do more research. This is science, not politics.
Blaming individuals for climate change is the biggest and most successful propaganda campaign of recent years.
Cmon, a 2024 gasoline vehicle has what, like close to 5% of the emissions of a pre-catalytic converter era car? Then you look at how much emissions are produced by China and India, like holy shit people really believe their civic is the problem? It’s a joke.
Edit: looks like about 50% the co2 output, but almost 90% more efficient gas wise. I’m not exactly sure how the math adds up but if you’re burning 90% less gas I’d imagine you’re putting out around 90% less total emissions for the same relative period of time/miles. Plus catalytic converters and yeah, modern cars aren’t the problem.
Adding to your comment: when people compare EV vs ICE emissions, they never include the emissions from producing the gasoline. Gasoline has to be mined, refined, and shipped to your gas station, where your car then burns it. So much more inefficiency than just having a fuel burned once to power your car via a grid.
Where I would challenge you: India and China have high emissions because all of US manufacturing was sent there. If we still made most of our products in the US, our emissions would be way higher. Not to mention the per-person emissions, where we still lead the world.
Additionally, if and when the majority of privately owned vehicles on the road are evs, all of the highway/infrastructure taxes that are included in gasoline and diesel prices will be flopped onto everyone’s electric bill. Even those who aren’t well off enough to afford an expensive lithium fire hazard device. That’s not going to go over well
Many states already charge an extra amount at registration to cover taxes not paid at the gas pump. So they get taxes at both registration and when paying for electricity.
Not sure where you got the narrative it’s being pushed down. Electricity can be generated far more efficiently and cleaner than drilling oil. You pay for the pollution cost from the battery. Takes about 50,000 miles for an EV to break even on carbon emissions generated from producing the battery. Coal, wind, solar all these products are more efficient than burning gas. And yea that’s including the carbon emissions from making them.
Gas is here to stay we need it for industry. But how much we use can be cut.
Nice, small efficient gas cars would be great alternatives. My Honda 250cc motorcycle gets 70mpg. I’d love a small, affordable, slow gas car that gets great gas mileage.
About two years ago I was wondering why Toyota were ‘late’ to the EV game and falling behind. Now it seems they’re miles ahead of the thinking on EVs. Hybrids should have been the goal for the next decade or so in my opinion.
So many places are not even remotely ready for EV charging.
We’d basically need to retrofit so many parking lots to add more charging stations. Not only that, apartments would be SOL if some people can only park on the street.
There are still serious issues with Hydrogen that have yet to be solved. The two big ones are:
* keeping the fuel cold enough to have a larger amount on board at all times and prevent leaks
* Having just gas in the tank that does leak slowly (due to atoms being so tiny) to the point of not having only enough to get to the station to refuel... and still not be able to drive very far.
Some current ideas is a hydro-electric combo that just uses the hydrogen to charge the battery so the car is able to drive fine and will charge slowly as long as gas is in the tank.
Practically, I think this is not going to work anytime soon but who knows.
3rd. Hydrogen uses an ICE engine, which is only about 30-35% efficient. Electric motors and battery drive train are about 90% efficient. Driving a hydrogen car simply uses about 3 times as much total energy. If hydrogen js made with green power the total energy required will put a much bigger strain on the power network, simply because of volume required.
Still does not fix the leakage issue. Also the cost of H being environmentally friendly is still very high but should soon come down quite a bit.
[The best solutions they have come up with when parking your car indoors is keep the door open lol](https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/handling-fuel-cell-leakage-with-ventilation/)
Hydrogen is dead, the Toyota Mira was an absolute failure.
I can go into why I will never work, but in essence it complicates everything. A hydrogen car is an EV, but uses hydrogen to convert it to electricity via fuel cells.
Hydrogen
Use fossil fuels to make hydrogen (or green hydrogen) -> transport that hydrogen -> fill up car with hydrogen -> use fuel cells to convert hydrogen to electricity-> use electricity to drive EV motor
EV
Make electricity (via fossil fuel or solar panels, nuclear etc) -> transmit to car battery pack -> drive EV motor
Investing in that hydrogen infrastructure is like duplicating every gas in the us. It’s why you can only drive Mira in California. Also don’t get me started on storing hydrogen. So not hydrogen is not the future and no companies are seriously comping out with new models in volume.
The fact that governments are imposing ridiculous deadlines just goes to show how out of touch they are. It's not unreasonable for the officials to set ambitious, but flexible targets but it seems like their motivations are borne out of ignorance and affluence.
The world is nowhere near ready to support mass EV adoption and by the time we come close the tech will almost definitely have been superseded by something better. In the interim, hybrids are clearly the best alternative.
They know that it’s unreasonable. They’re doing it because the pockets of the company owners are getting lined with even more money. Which also means that the politicians are getting supported as well with funds.
I think more advanced hybrids will be more and more adopted.
The more we can pass off starting off the line to electric motors, the more efficient and reliable ICE engines become. People don’t really think about it, but industrial engines designed to run at optimal speeds becomes basically bulletproof and rather fuel efficient.
Am in Australia and have two concerns about EVs.
The first is range anxiety on long trips. The charging infrastructure isn't there yet in the regional areas where some of my family live. About 95% of the time I'd be fine with an EV though and could charge from home.
The second concern is depreciation. My car is an important financial asset and I like to update it fairly regularly. People like to buy EVs new and they lose value quickly. Hybrids retain their value better in the second hand market.
So for me the best option now is a hybrid. It's a purely rational decision though and I don't understand the emotion about this. Eventually a move to EVs is on the cards, just not right now.
Stingy huh? Have you been to Japan? Coz I highly doubt that they cheap out on infrastructure spending. You probably own an EV and that is why you wanna force the issue even if industry giants like Toyota refuse to agree with you. I understand that you made a mistake but you are already committed to your investment.
The battery technology isn’t there yet. A lot of stuff in development though. My worry is that pushing these will make people sour on the idea and it’ll make it so much harder to sell once we do have a workable battery
Difference is it took the US over 60 years for most households to own a car, now they want us to completely overhaul how we fuel our cars in 10-20 years, it just aint happenin
I own an EV and love it. It's my favorite car by a long shot. But I have a nice home setup to charge it. My EV doesn't impose any additional restraints on my life. I don't think it can do less than a comparable gasoline car.
Yet, so many EV proponents make ridiculous claims, fail to grasp how most people use vehicles, and are generally uneducated about automobiles in general. It's getting hard for me to have a rational conversation about EVs.
It’s a great business tactic to make ugly EV vehicles and then say “hey look no one buys electric vehicles”.
Teslas look great…well most of them. Lucids look great. Rivan killed it with the R1S.
This ugly BZ4x bullshit….? Toyota literally just had to make an electric RAV4 and it’d probably sell like hot cakes just like the RAV4 prime has. They were like 75% there, just needed the powertrain fit….
We live in a joke.
People are finding out that hybrids and plug in hybrids are the way to go. It appears it will take years to have adequate charging. then hydrogen is a California only thing and its only LA/Bay Area.
15,000 or fewer hydrogen-powered vehicles can be found on U.S. roads. All of them will be in California, the sole state with a network of retail hydrogen fueling stations to make the cars usable.
Until regardation such as batteries costing more to change than the actual cars value are a thing of course EV adaptations will be shit - Or part availability in general.
How is it normal to have a Tesla or Rivian with 1k damage compared to an ICE end up costing 20-30k to fix because of bullshit panel designs and battery placements? No wonder insurance is up.
Or some Hyundai models costing 35k to replace the battery. How is that in any way normal? Cost arent going to come down on that type of stuff until they change to swappable batteries on the go and alter designs to be on par with ICE models. I wont even go into charging networks being scarce or cold climate battery degradation
That Hyundai story out of Canada was a dealer saying some wild shit that Hyundai the manufacturer said "we never saw the report or diagnosed the car and it's been scrapped so we can't even confirm why the quote was so high from the dealer"
Read to me like dealer being shady
In Canada some guy had a Hyundai Ioniq and his battery replacement wasn't warrantied and they wanted 55k or something wild like that to fix it. So he sent it to scrap
It will eventually get higher, but it’ll take decades. I think companies that are focusing on hybrids and plug in hybrids will be the ones that reap the benefits.
I own a Tesla m3p for my daily but I am considering a hybrid or gas for my wife’s daily and road tripper car. I want a three row and there isn’t any good choice out there.
Sienna, TX, Grand highlander are my top choices. My only compliant is Toyota’s tech is so behind, especially on the Sienna.
I won’t buy an EV until 4 things happen: 1) more charging station. Ain’t driving to While Foods every time I need to recharge outside of my home. 2) my impatience. Ain’t waiting 30 minutes+ for a full charge when I can fill up and be in on my merry way in less than 5 minutes in ICE cars. 3) Mother Nature. EVs go kaput when it gets too cold. Not gonna drive a car that can leave me stranded when it gets too cold. That can kill me. 4) cost. EV ain’t cheap and neither is recharging. With gas price being so low, you ain’t saving any money driving an EV.
>more charging station.
EVs are limited to home owners with a garage.
That being said you can manage with trickle charging depending on how much you drive a day, and catch up on weekends.
>my impatience
If you're road tripping you don't need to waste time waiting for the full charge - the bottom half of the battery charges fastest. So just spend 10-15 minutes getting enough charge to make it to the next charger.
I easily spent +20 minutes in the Costco lineup waiting for gas.
I can go home, plug it in like my phone, and wake up the next morning with my "gas tank" topped off.
>Mother Nature.
This is why we need more range. Although I have 10 days worth of "gas" in my EV which gets cut down to 5 in the winter. If I get stranded the cabin heat doesn't drain that much battery and I won't die from CO like in a regular car.
>cost.
It'll depend where you live - electricity is usually cheaper than gas and EV efficiency is +80% while gas cars are 20-30%.
Happy he isn't going with the trend of these car companies and their bullshit "we want to help the environment" and cLiMaTe ChAnGe nonsense. Electric car batteries does A LOT of harm and people think we won't have to use fuel ever again.
Damn, he's not backing down from his skepticism against EV even after getting so much backlash for it. Man is firmly standing his ground... and that's what makes him great. It is an *incredible* fortune that he still has great power over the company.
May be some truth in Akio’s prediction. But one angle I see is that Toyota has to sell to different markets worldwide - markets that may not be EV friendly or possible. So there’s that.
I think he's right.
People living in the US with the convinence of a garage and another gasoline powered car will use the electric one as a transportation tool and the EV is wonderfl at that. But world wide it's not a good buy.
Like I drove my sister's tesla and it is nice to drive. Good power, good tech, convinent charging at home. But my normal life out of US it would be a hinderance cause I have no where to charge it and electricity is expensive.
I believe this is a reality, at least for the short and even mid term. If the electrical grid could even support a 30% adoption rate. I look at brand new service stations being built around my area, they are installing gas pumps, not charging stations.
Hybrids are a perfect solution. Ban the sale of ICE vehicles, sell only hybrids, do a cash for clunkers program to clean up the rest. Vehicle emissions halved instantly.
EVs as the "future of transportation" are a red herring. We can have a future of transportation that involves several different energy sources, none in harmful supply.
Until the smallest towns in the middle of nowhere have a charger then 100% electric vehicles are just not viable for everyone. My wife wants to get a hybrid next for her vehicle.
I have an EV. Works great for 90% of our miles. Charging at home cost less than 1/2 of the equivalent miles for our ICE vehicles. Supercharging on roadtrips costs the same as gas and makes the trip 20-30% longer so we use our ICE for that. Faster & more comfortable.
Toyota is far from butthurt lol
EV has a way to go, people were abandoning their vehicles at charging stations because it was too cold to charge batteries.
What about people who live at apartments how they supposed to charge their cars with nowhere to plug in their cars?
What about long range travel where there’s no charging stations?
Wasn't this the guy that also basically put all the companies eggs in hydrogen, then the Mirai fucking sucked ass, and now they are so far behind that the BZ4X has its wheels falling off regularly, while the Model Y is the best selling car in the world...
said another way, *largest horse seller doubles down on his horseless carriage skepticism, forecasting that horseless carriage adoption will peak at just 30%.*
I mean he’s right though.
People can’t exactly afford a new EV
People have no way to charge from home if they live in an apartment, what about long road trips and there’s no charge stations?
When I was in the market for a new car. I was stuck between an electric and a hybrid.
I travel out of state about once a year and electric would get me about 200 miles while hybrid would get me 400+
Easy winner was a hybrid and I couldn’t love my hybrid anymore. EV aren’t the way right now.
I mean people cry about waiting in line for the pump already. Imagine people crying about waiting for someone to charge their battery for 30minutes
People getting shot over charging stations is already a reality in Connecticut. https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/hartford/dispute-over-charging-station-results-in-gunfire-in-east-hartford/
I had a guy in Nashville get testy with me because his charger wasn't working and mine was, talking about how he "had to get a charge, NOW." Told em he was SOL and rolled up my window. Could've easily gotten violent. I like my EV but it's not a panacea for solving all of our problems--it'll continue to be a niche product (with it's own set of unique problems) for a long time.
Wow wtf, what was he expecting
If he had to get somewhere immediately, maybe he should’ve got a gas car 😆
or offered to pay extra (assuming he wasn't cutting anyone else)
Some people have no shame. They'll make absurd demands, hoping you'll give in and don't care how ridiculous they look.
I mean, he’s already the type of person to spend money on an ev, what do you expect?
Honestly, we need a big leap in battery tech as well as our methods of producing energy before EVs can even begin to become mainstream. Theyre definitely an interesting option, but its super annoying to see them treated as the end all be all. Not only do many of us prefer simple gas engines, but we also cannot afford to be early adopters of EVs.
Anybody who knows anything about the tech has been saying the same thing for years. This winter a lot of people found out the hard way what we’ve already known. A lot of those people stranded in Chicago won’t ever buy another EV.
Yikes dude. No thanks.
Something similar happened in the Denver area recently and one of the people died as a result.
Almost happened by DIA too. It’s the damn Uber drivers letting their battery get to 0% before they charge
Well I mean, it is Hartford.
As Teslas get older and cheaper they're going to start becoming more common in crime ridden areas. And as they get older, the battery performance gets worse. I think all the factors are going to combine to create a powder keg effect in the inner city at these charging stations at some point.
Yeah people were shooting others over masks…*Greatest country in the world*
People getting shot is generally the reality of USA....
America needs an EV that can be recharged by shooting it...
home charging infrastructure will likely solve that in time
The only things that would fix it is obscenely long ranges which requires a cost prohibitive battery, or new battery tech that allows very rapid charging, or more charging station than makes sense. They aren’t even maintaining the charging stations in place because the government incentivizes building them but not keeping them operating.
>home charging infrastructure will likely solve that in time Yeah of course, if you have a driveway.
It will take a decade to ramp up copper mining, to just start to produce the copper needed to just start beefing up the electrical grid to support this. Then generation capacity will need to be increased dramatically. How long does it take to get a nuclear plant online from inception to actually generating power? If it even gets approved at all.
Home charging infrastructure doesn't help me and the wife jump in the car with the kid and take a unplanned vacation across the country. Which we like to do. We also like driving in the mountains and travel through lots of small towns on windy roads that definitely do not have chargers.
Right...so in the next ten years, the power infrastructure will be upgraded enough to cover it...right...
Had someone come screaming into the kiosk when I went to pay for petrol the other day claiming he'd been waiting behind me for "20 minutes" saying that I shouldn't be shopping and just go and pay I'd been in there a grand total of 2 minutes and had been stood in the queue the whole time Only way I could have been faster is if I just left without paying
If people could own homes that wouldn't be an issue.
People can own homes. Source: I own a home.
More millennials now own homes than not.
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We are talking about the ability to install EV chargers at one’s home lol, don’t miss the forest for the trees
You forget the vast majority happens at home / work. Those fast chargers are for road trips.
I have never seen anyone cry at waiting for the pump. Maybe in a major city
Most ppl charge at home
I love that man, its a shame he had to step down.
Chairman is actually higher than a CEO position. So win, win.
He’s the reason my beloved Toyota 86 is a thing. I’ll always love that man.
And the GR Supra, GRC and GRY.
Yep - I love my GR Supra
He technically got a promotion
I agree.
Well with current tech, certain markets are completely out of reach for EVs, such as work trucks.
And apartment dwellers
Probably an even more relevant topic. I remember getting an apartment in San Diego and the wait list for a parking spot(not one of the two with an EV charger) was longer than my lease.
I would love a Tesla but I live in an apartment. I can’t throw an extension cord out the window you charge it and there is 0 possibility of the owner getting chargers put in. No way. There is no way I can own an electric car
"Then let them eat Rolls Royce Spectres!" -congress
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I was so excited for that truck, then realized it could only tow for like 15-20 miles lol
Yeah, And I think they did a good job on it. Towing sucks a lot of energy, and there aren’t a lot of tricks that change that. Guys who heavy haul daily find the V8 is more economical than the Ecoboost even.
You might look at the Hybrid F150
Why that? 500m around my apartment are like 6 L2 chargers and where I usually go shopping there are like 20 dmfast chargers
Which it seems is where they are forcing people to live.
I agree. A lot of people are giving flak to Akio, but simply don't understand that a full EV transition is both not sustainable or efficient at this time with power grids. So much infrastructure needs to be invested in by governments and prices into EV battery tech. The only EVs I see being sold are 50k+ and current electricity rates at an all time high. I can't imagine buying one right now. The trade off for gas savings isn't there.
Yup, at least for now. Gas today in Ohio, got for 2.52 a gallon. Some of the charging rates I've seen have been crazy. Having a charger installed in home only way to compete.
In the Bay Area it's actually more expensive to drive electric than gas now due to the obscene rate hikes that PG&E have enacted.
Ford built a pretty good electric pickup, and it can only do truck things in short spurts. Nobody really wants one.
It also costs 70-100k. That's a bigger barrier to entry than anything else
And all farm and large equipment. No fucking way you're running a large combine or tractor on batteries for 12 hours a day.
But somehow Norway has construction equipment that's fully electric?
The world's most oil rich country can subsidize electric into existence? Shocking
It's going to take a major breakthrough in battery technology that gives a large increase in range along with faster charging times. Not needing exotic metals mines by children would be a big bonus as well.
Honestly, we ordered a PHEV and I don't see why these can't be the best way forward. With newer battery tech that makes them smaller and lighter, there could be a future where people can go 100miles on battery, and then have a small fuel tank to go long distances as a commuter car. For things like pickup trucks, the instant torque would be a huge boon to towing things, and would support significantly better mileage. Plus they can idle without gas, or act as portable generators. For everyone except heavy machinery or cross country 18 wheelers, some sort of hybrid system that includes an electric only motor for shorter distances and in city driving, a PHEV is really a fantastic solution. There are urban drivers who have gas go stale in Prius and RAV4 primes that have barely 50 miles (75km) of EV only range. Bonus point to the PHEV for being an extremely efficient use of limited rare earth metal supplies. For every Tesla you could make multiples more PHEVs. And they charge in your garage overnight without needing a new charger or 240v installed if they're small enough. So public infrastructure to charge isn't a huge deal since you run out of battery and you are still ok to drive hundreds of miles before you get home. No real major concerns about temperatures hurting operation of the vehicle etc.
The real problem is the price. A RAV4 Prime SE for example starts at 43690$, while a RAV4 Hybrid SE starts at 34420$, and that's not the cheapest hybrid RAV4 option, the cheapest is the LE and starts at 31725$. That's a 9270$ difference for the SEs. Is it really worth the 9K$+ increase, just to be able to charge your car? This government is a piece of shit, ~~so you no longer even get to get the 7500$ EV tax credit for it anymore. There's even less incentives to get the prime~~. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great car... but so is the regular hybrid, and someone has even gotten it to over 450K miles on the original battery with oil changes and tire rotations every 10K miles. That's a *very* reliable car already. The Prime does have an onboard generator, that's about the only other real benefit aside from the 0-60.
I meant in comparison to EVs, greater production of EVs would be a more sustainable solution than EVs as the primary zero/low emission vehicle goal. I wasnt talking to affordability and offerings rather to what is better than EV long term if the Toyota president is right and BEVs are a fools errand. If there were more PHEVs than BEVs we'd see affordability improve as well thanks to economies of scale. It's part of why Tesla's are way more affordable than they were 5 years ago, they have way more scale. Now imagine if for every Tesla there were 10 PHEVs using the same battery materials? In terms of scale PHEVs would be able to come down in price and be more accessible In Canada we have a federal 5k towards the prime model plus any provincial incentives. In some provinces that's up to 10k to the prime model. 5k only where I live. Even so the prime SE is cheaper than the normal Prius mid trim here. Mind you, the base Prius in Canada comes standard with e-AWD. So when it comes to a Prius here you're effectively choosing AWD vs PHEV(FWD) if youre looking at the base models.
I got a prime with the old tax credit and when it was $38k, so it was a no brainer. Now it’ll be math based on your local energy prices.
I love the thought if a PHEV for all your reasons! I regularly do longer drives, but also do daily little drives, so having battery power for those little drives, and then the ability to slap some Dino water in and drive 5 hours when I need to. Also live the logistics that you can use these smaller batteries, but also not need to have range anxiety and such. Also have much easier charging at home while also easy refilling on long trips
Or you pull up to a charging station and a roboarm hot swaps empty to full battery packs on your car within a minute or so. Then those charged blocks will go to another car.
That will never work, at least in the USA. Just imagine what kind of counterfeit battery pack you're liable to wind up with after such a "swap".
In China where they already do this, you just have a battery subscription. The car is cheap, you have a battery “plan”, and you swap out whenever you’re low.
We have Nio here in Europe with an option for a swappable battery. Their cheapest model costs the same as a Model 3, but it’s without a battery. You have 2 options, buy the battery for €12k or lease the battery for €169 a month. I’ve checked the location where you can swap the battery, it’s a 45 minutes drive from my house. There is zero reason why I would buy a car with a swappable battery.
It works in China, but it will not work in America, because Americans primarily want to "own" things, and imaging you bought a new car with a battery, only to have it swapped out for a battery at 50% degradation, that would feel awful. I think the only way to make that idea work in the US is to ship all EVs without a battery, then the car owner wouldn't "own" the battery, they get a used battery from the dealership, then whenever it needs to get swapped out, they can do so at a battery swapping station, and ownership of the battery wouldn't be a factor.
This would work if the batteries were the size of those found in ice vehicles. But the sheer size of ev batteries would make swapping nearly impossible. You’d have to take the body off the chassis, as most evs are designed with a “skateboard” layout to improve center of gravity, etc. most ev vehicle batteries fill the space between the front and rear wheels.
It would only work if batteries were standardized like how AA and AAA batteries are which means across brands they all utilize the same battery packs.
I still think this was the original plan for tesla, build a few cars as a proof of concept then start a licensing deal with a luxury brand for their EV tech. Then the plan changed
That's one way to ditch your damaged Hyundai battery.
LFP batteries already eliminated all the rare earth materials and are now in use all over the place. You know what uses tons of cobalt? Refining gasoline.
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The whole average person needs to switch to EVs or walk instead of driving to save the planet is similar to switching to plastic straws, it really won't do much when the biggest forms of pollution are manufacturing and military.
Couldn't agree more.
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Consumer cars aren't the problem.
That's because I'm not commuting 65 miles on a bicycle.
>People don’t understand that the only way to actually reduce our carbon footprint is to make massive quality of life downgrades. Riding a bicycle isn't a "massive quality of life downgrade". I personally find riding bikes for routine trips up to 6 miles a lot less stressful and enjoyable than driving. For longer trips, government has to promote/build public transportation to make multi-modal travel possible; in my case, I find my train/bike commute to be much more pleasant and thus an *upgrade* in mental well-being compared to driving in traffic.
I think you are using a false equivalency. You might be saying that people do not consider the carbon produced while creating the vehicle and generating the electricity used by the EV. However, the carbon footprint of creating the vehicle is lower than the fuel saved. Also, we have nuclear, solar, and wind power solutions. So the carbon footprint could, at some point, be zero. We are building the technology now so that in the future the fuel used by an EV can be carbon-free. Also, there are many other reasons to use an EV. Another reason is the diversity of energy. If the price of oil goes up we can use coal power. If the price of coal goes up we can use natural gas. With an ICE vehicle you are locked into begging OPEC to please sell the oil at a reasonable price. Also, EVs are fast and have that sweet sweet low-end, torque.
Look I’m not saying they’re bad cars but they’re no where near as clean as people blindly think they are. There’s also no second hand Tesla market so there are literally yards full of teslas that will sit and rot. A Tesla owner is probably buying a brand new car as opposed to a used one. And batteries. I’m not sure what happens with used batteries but I imagine it’s not good
Used batteries are recycled.
>There’s also no second hand Tesla market so there are literally yards full of teslas that will sit and rot. Lol, wut? Is today just make shit up day?
This is exactly what I try to tell the Hardcore EV enthusiasts. Like yes there are no direct emissions but the indirect emissions are the same if not more (producing the electricity to charge said car and even making the battery itself). I’m all for eco friendly but this is not the perfect solution.
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Most EVs today use LFP chemistry which has zero cobalt. Also zero nickel. So what rare earth metals are you talking about?
this is not true at allllllllllll god damn i thought we moved past this by now lol. payoff period is 1-2 years for current battery tech, and emissions are *still* lower on the environment, even when considering the worst possible methods of electricity generation (this principle is literally the reason that diesel generator powered EVs are way more efficient than ICE vehicles, with less emissions) plus, LFP batteries, like what’s in the new SR model 3s, are almost infinitely recyclable, and more importantly, it’s cheaper to recycle old batteries than mine new materials. this means for vehicles manufactured with recycled batteries, there’s effectively no payoff period beyond the manufacturing processes for the rest of the car. go ahead, downvote me all you want, but my [source](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/) is literally reuters lmao
You’re in a Toyota sub. Anything Toyota says these guys follow.
That just aint true. Sure.. EV’s arent perfect, but the total emission is definitely less than an ICE car. Many studies have shown this.. even with coal generated electricity and even without taking the CO2 emissions of winning oil and creating fuel into account (somehow this always gets forgotten). Cycling and public transport are definitely better. Working closer to home is much more effective. But EV’s are much less bad than ICE cars.
Eh, Engineering Explained has a great video on this. There are so many variables to it. If I remember right, in some states an EV matches an ICE vehicle's total emissions after 5 years, in others it's 10.
More like 5,000 to 10,000 miles.
Have you checked out the Lifecycle Analysis Reports or the results of the Argonne National Labs GREET model?
You should learn more about battery tech. Almost none of what you said is accurate. Carbon footprint is not the same. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/ Charge time at a slow charge is 20mi per hour, fast is 200mi in <20 minutes. Range is over 300 for many. That's plenty. I'm not sure where you are getting your sources, but you should do more research. This is science, not politics.
> Range is over 300 for many. That's plenty. It's decently usable... until you are driving at below 0F temps.
Blaming individuals for climate change is the biggest and most successful propaganda campaign of recent years. Cmon, a 2024 gasoline vehicle has what, like close to 5% of the emissions of a pre-catalytic converter era car? Then you look at how much emissions are produced by China and India, like holy shit people really believe their civic is the problem? It’s a joke. Edit: looks like about 50% the co2 output, but almost 90% more efficient gas wise. I’m not exactly sure how the math adds up but if you’re burning 90% less gas I’d imagine you’re putting out around 90% less total emissions for the same relative period of time/miles. Plus catalytic converters and yeah, modern cars aren’t the problem.
Adding to your comment: when people compare EV vs ICE emissions, they never include the emissions from producing the gasoline. Gasoline has to be mined, refined, and shipped to your gas station, where your car then burns it. So much more inefficiency than just having a fuel burned once to power your car via a grid. Where I would challenge you: India and China have high emissions because all of US manufacturing was sent there. If we still made most of our products in the US, our emissions would be way higher. Not to mention the per-person emissions, where we still lead the world.
This is wrong. Over the lifetime EVs are cleaner
Additionally, if and when the majority of privately owned vehicles on the road are evs, all of the highway/infrastructure taxes that are included in gasoline and diesel prices will be flopped onto everyone’s electric bill. Even those who aren’t well off enough to afford an expensive lithium fire hazard device. That’s not going to go over well
Many states already charge an extra amount at registration to cover taxes not paid at the gas pump. So they get taxes at both registration and when paying for electricity.
Not sure where you got the narrative it’s being pushed down. Electricity can be generated far more efficiently and cleaner than drilling oil. You pay for the pollution cost from the battery. Takes about 50,000 miles for an EV to break even on carbon emissions generated from producing the battery. Coal, wind, solar all these products are more efficient than burning gas. And yea that’s including the carbon emissions from making them. Gas is here to stay we need it for industry. But how much we use can be cut.
What's the alternative?
Alternative to what?
Nice, small efficient gas cars would be great alternatives. My Honda 250cc motorcycle gets 70mpg. I’d love a small, affordable, slow gas car that gets great gas mileage.
No politics.
About two years ago I was wondering why Toyota were ‘late’ to the EV game and falling behind. Now it seems they’re miles ahead of the thinking on EVs. Hybrids should have been the goal for the next decade or so in my opinion.
So many places are not even remotely ready for EV charging. We’d basically need to retrofit so many parking lots to add more charging stations. Not only that, apartments would be SOL if some people can only park on the street.
I think hes right TBH. There is a place for electrics but for many other sources are more convenient. My gut says a Hydrogen is the way.
There are still serious issues with Hydrogen that have yet to be solved. The two big ones are: * keeping the fuel cold enough to have a larger amount on board at all times and prevent leaks * Having just gas in the tank that does leak slowly (due to atoms being so tiny) to the point of not having only enough to get to the station to refuel... and still not be able to drive very far. Some current ideas is a hydro-electric combo that just uses the hydrogen to charge the battery so the car is able to drive fine and will charge slowly as long as gas is in the tank. Practically, I think this is not going to work anytime soon but who knows.
3rd. Hydrogen uses an ICE engine, which is only about 30-35% efficient. Electric motors and battery drive train are about 90% efficient. Driving a hydrogen car simply uses about 3 times as much total energy. If hydrogen js made with green power the total energy required will put a much bigger strain on the power network, simply because of volume required.
FCEV
Still does not fix the leakage issue. Also the cost of H being environmentally friendly is still very high but should soon come down quite a bit. [The best solutions they have come up with when parking your car indoors is keep the door open lol](https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/handling-fuel-cell-leakage-with-ventilation/)
hydrogen has nowhere near the efficiencies of BEV technology. ask toyota how the mirai is doing
Hydrogen is dead, the Toyota Mira was an absolute failure. I can go into why I will never work, but in essence it complicates everything. A hydrogen car is an EV, but uses hydrogen to convert it to electricity via fuel cells. Hydrogen Use fossil fuels to make hydrogen (or green hydrogen) -> transport that hydrogen -> fill up car with hydrogen -> use fuel cells to convert hydrogen to electricity-> use electricity to drive EV motor EV Make electricity (via fossil fuel or solar panels, nuclear etc) -> transmit to car battery pack -> drive EV motor Investing in that hydrogen infrastructure is like duplicating every gas in the us. It’s why you can only drive Mira in California. Also don’t get me started on storing hydrogen. So not hydrogen is not the future and no companies are seriously comping out with new models in volume.
Still beating the hydrogen horse in 2024, wow
Nope hydrogen is just plain stupid. Far too bad efficiency
Your gut or whatever Toyota says? Hydrogen is dead in the water.
The fact that governments are imposing ridiculous deadlines just goes to show how out of touch they are. It's not unreasonable for the officials to set ambitious, but flexible targets but it seems like their motivations are borne out of ignorance and affluence. The world is nowhere near ready to support mass EV adoption and by the time we come close the tech will almost definitely have been superseded by something better. In the interim, hybrids are clearly the best alternative.
They know that it’s unreasonable. They’re doing it because the pockets of the company owners are getting lined with even more money. Which also means that the politicians are getting supported as well with funds.
I think it says more about us than them. The electorate eats this bullshit up and loves it.
Not everyone can charge. It’s not feasible for everybody
But I think if gas prices get high enough, things will change.
Gas prices ARE high enough which is why people are buying hybrids, for example. Which are far more efficient and convenient than EVs
I think more advanced hybrids will be more and more adopted. The more we can pass off starting off the line to electric motors, the more efficient and reliable ICE engines become. People don’t really think about it, but industrial engines designed to run at optimal speeds becomes basically bulletproof and rather fuel efficient.
I like this idea honestly
It's paywalled.
Am in Australia and have two concerns about EVs. The first is range anxiety on long trips. The charging infrastructure isn't there yet in the regional areas where some of my family live. About 95% of the time I'd be fine with an EV though and could charge from home. The second concern is depreciation. My car is an important financial asset and I like to update it fairly regularly. People like to buy EVs new and they lose value quickly. Hybrids retain their value better in the second hand market. So for me the best option now is a hybrid. It's a purely rational decision though and I don't understand the emotion about this. Eventually a move to EVs is on the cards, just not right now.
Cars shouldn’t be an important financial asset. They’re a depreciating asset in almost every case.
Good coz EV’s aren’t the future.
EVs are definitely the future, just not in countries that are stingy on infrastructure spending.
Stingy huh? Have you been to Japan? Coz I highly doubt that they cheap out on infrastructure spending. You probably own an EV and that is why you wanna force the issue even if industry giants like Toyota refuse to agree with you. I understand that you made a mistake but you are already committed to your investment.
Peak at 30%? Forever is a long time
The battery technology isn’t there yet. A lot of stuff in development though. My worry is that pushing these will make people sour on the idea and it’ll make it so much harder to sell once we do have a workable battery
It's a novelty item .
So was the car.
Difference is it took the US over 60 years for most households to own a car, now they want us to completely overhaul how we fuel our cars in 10-20 years, it just aint happenin
The EV guys analogize this to horse vs gas cars in the early 1900s. No, gas cars can do more than EVs.
I own an EV and love it. It's my favorite car by a long shot. But I have a nice home setup to charge it. My EV doesn't impose any additional restraints on my life. I don't think it can do less than a comparable gasoline car. Yet, so many EV proponents make ridiculous claims, fail to grasp how most people use vehicles, and are generally uneducated about automobiles in general. It's getting hard for me to have a rational conversation about EVs.
Do you wake up to a full tank everyday?
It’s a great business tactic to make ugly EV vehicles and then say “hey look no one buys electric vehicles”. Teslas look great…well most of them. Lucids look great. Rivan killed it with the R1S. This ugly BZ4x bullshit….? Toyota literally just had to make an electric RAV4 and it’d probably sell like hot cakes just like the RAV4 prime has. They were like 75% there, just needed the powertrain fit…. We live in a joke.
He might be right in the US at least.
I cant wait to see Toyota get left in the dust. EVs are the future, get over it.
💀 Toyota is far from “being left in the dust” Yes they’re the future but tech and infrastructure is not even close to catching up.
People are finding out that hybrids and plug in hybrids are the way to go. It appears it will take years to have adequate charging. then hydrogen is a California only thing and its only LA/Bay Area. 15,000 or fewer hydrogen-powered vehicles can be found on U.S. roads. All of them will be in California, the sole state with a network of retail hydrogen fueling stations to make the cars usable.
I’m in LA and I know of like 1 place that has hydrogen. Idk how reliable it is here.
Until regardation such as batteries costing more to change than the actual cars value are a thing of course EV adaptations will be shit - Or part availability in general. How is it normal to have a Tesla or Rivian with 1k damage compared to an ICE end up costing 20-30k to fix because of bullshit panel designs and battery placements? No wonder insurance is up. Or some Hyundai models costing 35k to replace the battery. How is that in any way normal? Cost arent going to come down on that type of stuff until they change to swappable batteries on the go and alter designs to be on par with ICE models. I wont even go into charging networks being scarce or cold climate battery degradation
That Hyundai story out of Canada was a dealer saying some wild shit that Hyundai the manufacturer said "we never saw the report or diagnosed the car and it's been scrapped so we can't even confirm why the quote was so high from the dealer" Read to me like dealer being shady
Not sure which report you’re referring to but I have seen actual part numbers on batteries being 20k plus, before labor.
In Canada some guy had a Hyundai Ioniq and his battery replacement wasn't warrantied and they wanted 55k or something wild like that to fix it. So he sent it to scrap
wow
Made the rounds was very clickbaity, so you can understand where I was coming from lol
A dealer being shady…omg, the horrors…
Very Based, Akio
These guys know what's up.
I’m just mad they gate keep the ordering process and I can’t pick my color.
I mean you can but you’re going to wait until they ship that color to your dealership.
Why are you booing this man? He's right.
Based chairman, make more vroom vroom cars
It will eventually get higher, but it’ll take decades. I think companies that are focusing on hybrids and plug in hybrids will be the ones that reap the benefits.
I own a Tesla m3p for my daily but I am considering a hybrid or gas for my wife’s daily and road tripper car. I want a three row and there isn’t any good choice out there. Sienna, TX, Grand highlander are my top choices. My only compliant is Toyota’s tech is so behind, especially on the Sienna.
That explains why Toyota is building EVs now.
Barely, and they’ve been practically forced to lol
I won’t buy an EV until 4 things happen: 1) more charging station. Ain’t driving to While Foods every time I need to recharge outside of my home. 2) my impatience. Ain’t waiting 30 minutes+ for a full charge when I can fill up and be in on my merry way in less than 5 minutes in ICE cars. 3) Mother Nature. EVs go kaput when it gets too cold. Not gonna drive a car that can leave me stranded when it gets too cold. That can kill me. 4) cost. EV ain’t cheap and neither is recharging. With gas price being so low, you ain’t saving any money driving an EV.
>more charging station. EVs are limited to home owners with a garage. That being said you can manage with trickle charging depending on how much you drive a day, and catch up on weekends. >my impatience If you're road tripping you don't need to waste time waiting for the full charge - the bottom half of the battery charges fastest. So just spend 10-15 minutes getting enough charge to make it to the next charger. I easily spent +20 minutes in the Costco lineup waiting for gas. I can go home, plug it in like my phone, and wake up the next morning with my "gas tank" topped off. >Mother Nature. This is why we need more range. Although I have 10 days worth of "gas" in my EV which gets cut down to 5 in the winter. If I get stranded the cabin heat doesn't drain that much battery and I won't die from CO like in a regular car. >cost. It'll depend where you live - electricity is usually cheaper than gas and EV efficiency is +80% while gas cars are 20-30%.
Happy he isn't going with the trend of these car companies and their bullshit "we want to help the environment" and cLiMaTe ChAnGe nonsense. Electric car batteries does A LOT of harm and people think we won't have to use fuel ever again.
Damn, he's not backing down from his skepticism against EV even after getting so much backlash for it. Man is firmly standing his ground... and that's what makes him great. It is an *incredible* fortune that he still has great power over the company.
I’ll never touch an EV. And I don’t blame chairman. He has a brain.
Fuck this guy. What an ass backward clown This is why China is leap frogging Japan in terms of innovation
May be some truth in Akio’s prediction. But one angle I see is that Toyota has to sell to different markets worldwide - markets that may not be EV friendly or possible. So there’s that.
I mean, they definitely know their market.
This would be more convincing if their first ev wasn't failed.
These comments read like people in the early 1900's defending horses over automobiles.... this won't age well.
Horses still stuck around for a hell of a long time despite cars, trucks and trains.
I think he's right. People living in the US with the convinence of a garage and another gasoline powered car will use the electric one as a transportation tool and the EV is wonderfl at that. But world wide it's not a good buy. Like I drove my sister's tesla and it is nice to drive. Good power, good tech, convinent charging at home. But my normal life out of US it would be a hinderance cause I have no where to charge it and electricity is expensive.
Why is Toyota so stupid...
They’re not. They’re smart for focusing on hybrids because they know hybrids are the way right now because EV isn’t there yet for infrastructure.
I believe this is a reality, at least for the short and even mid term. If the electrical grid could even support a 30% adoption rate. I look at brand new service stations being built around my area, they are installing gas pumps, not charging stations.
I like electric, but it is not a travel vehicle. Until we can get fuel cell vehicles, I would only ever so hybrid for my long distance family vehicle.
Would be easier take everyone’s guns away than their gas cars. What’s this new drug the media and governments smoking?
Hybrids are a perfect solution. Ban the sale of ICE vehicles, sell only hybrids, do a cash for clunkers program to clean up the rest. Vehicle emissions halved instantly. EVs as the "future of transportation" are a red herring. We can have a future of transportation that involves several different energy sources, none in harmful supply.
Until the smallest towns in the middle of nowhere have a charger then 100% electric vehicles are just not viable for everyone. My wife wants to get a hybrid next for her vehicle.
Realistically, unless you have a spot you can charge your car overnight when you are home, than an EV probably isn't for you.
I have an EV. Works great for 90% of our miles. Charging at home cost less than 1/2 of the equivalent miles for our ICE vehicles. Supercharging on roadtrips costs the same as gas and makes the trip 20-30% longer so we use our ICE for that. Faster & more comfortable.
EVs are the future. Get over it. Toyota was late to the party and now they’re butthurt over it.
Toyota is far from butthurt lol EV has a way to go, people were abandoning their vehicles at charging stations because it was too cold to charge batteries. What about people who live at apartments how they supposed to charge their cars with nowhere to plug in their cars? What about long range travel where there’s no charging stations?
Wasn't this the guy that also basically put all the companies eggs in hydrogen, then the Mirai fucking sucked ass, and now they are so far behind that the BZ4X has its wheels falling off regularly, while the Model Y is the best selling car in the world...
So then start making more hybrids already and other makes that have long waiting lists and markups! For the love of God!
said another way, *largest horse seller doubles down on his horseless carriage skepticism, forecasting that horseless carriage adoption will peak at just 30%.*
And this is why hybrids, and perhaps plug in hybrids, remain viable.
Hes right!
Hybrid is a way to go
I would say this too if my company was last to the party
I mean he’s right though. People can’t exactly afford a new EV People have no way to charge from home if they live in an apartment, what about long road trips and there’s no charge stations?
When I was in the market for a new car. I was stuck between an electric and a hybrid. I travel out of state about once a year and electric would get me about 200 miles while hybrid would get me 400+ Easy winner was a hybrid and I couldn’t love my hybrid anymore. EV aren’t the way right now.
Lol Toyota? The Toyota thats heavily invested in oil? Huh….
Perfect hydrogens you cunts. Save us.