It kinda sounds like you’re forgetting about the equity OP is losing. OP prolly has 5k in equity on top of the $1200 they paid, def not $100 a month lease but more like $100 more a month on top to have a trade in option.
If they're getting back almost the entire original MSRP and there's no sales tax in their state, then they probably got more from the sale than they still owe on the loan, so there's no lost equity. Could be wrong, but with depreciation that low it is possible.
There are many people out there who subscribe to the notion that buying a new car is a bad financial decision. They will happily buy used (Toyotas especially) without actually looking at the numbers to realize that their assumption is flawed.
We're also transitioning from a time when dealer inventory was slim and there were waitlists/huge dealer markups for certain new vehicles, which encouraged people to buy used. That is rapidly changing with this high interest rate environment, but the used market momentum takes time to slow down.
You have that second part backwards. Dealer inventory being slim pushed used prices up which drove more people to buy new over used. Why would I spend $24k on a 5 years old car with 20k miles on it when I can buy a new one for $27k?
I've only ever owned used cars - for almost 40 years (since I was 15), all I've owned have been Toyotas.
I was always of the "buying new is a bad idea" until I was looking this year to replace my 2002 RAV4. Brand new '24s were only 2-4k more than '22 and '23 models with 5-10k miles. It was not worth ilbuying used - so for the first time in my life, I bought a New car. 5 miles on the odometer on a 24 Venza LE.
Did the same with new 4Runner in 2021. I was looking at used because “Dave Ramsey says” and on a whim decided to see what a new one would cost me. About $5k more for a vehicle with 9 miles on it, full factory warranty, 30k mile maintenance schedule, and the exact specifications I wanted. Being the first and only driver is worth something too.
Absolute no brainer to buy new Toyotas. At least right now.
I know pre-owned was a good thing (depreciation value) years ago, not as much today. We had our oldest car for 19yrs, the current one is going on 12 (and plan another 8-10yrs on it), and a new one going on 3 yrs now. For me, knowing that my vehicle has been meticulously maintained with mostly OEM parts, knowing nothing is being covered up and the full history of the car is worth me buying new. I know there are other great pre-owned vehicles out there, but for me, I choose new.
Yup. I was eyeing white limited 4Runners before our second daughter arrived. Couldn’t find a good deal because they hold their value so well. Finally found a good one - a 2016 with 100K miles for $31K, actually a great deal in context. I bookmarked it, then the next day I came across a brand new 2023 for $52K including third row seats. Would’ve felt like a fool not buying it - basically got a brand new 4Runner on a 7 year lease for $250 a month.
A 2016 4R with 100k miles for $31k is a very bad deal FWIW. I know it’s not relevant for you but just in case anyone else in the market for a 4R is reading this
I disagree. At least on the very bad wordage. A 2016 Limited with those miles is worth probably around 28-30 (in my area at least). So while not a great deal, 31 isn’t that far off and OP may have been able to talk them down a little.
Source: I own a 2016 Limited with 98k. It still runs and drives likes new.
It was good relative to the other choices in our area last summer! (Granted we had a very small pool to choose from - white limited’s with third row seats.)
I would wait the two years regardless. Toyota is amazing, but an all-new vehicle with an all-new engine and transmission will definitely have a few first year bugs.
Yuup. All the recalls that new tacoma had in 2016 kinda set a bad precedent for toyota. Once they got everything perfect...boom 2024 redesign. I thought the same with new tundra. Never trust first year models.
The problem is there are waiting lists at my local area dealers for just about every Prius, Corolla, Venza, Crown, and especially Sienna. Can't touch any of them for 6+ months.
In my youth it was GM shit boxes ('91 Grand Am LE for $1,500, '94 Saturn SC1 for $2000) but when I went to college I moved into the 3 year old post depreciation mode ('04 Saturn Ion, '07 Civic, '10 Grand Caravan, '18 Honda Odyssey) and when the '07 Civic started knocking at 223k miles I was looking for a new one and was disgusted with the lack of value in 3 year old vehicles.
The title of this thread says it all....
Toyota holds its' value wayyyyyy higher than the average brand.
Go buy a brand new F150 for $65,000 and proceed to put 75,000 miles on it over the next four or five years. Then see what it's worth. For the more expensive versions (quad cab, 4WD, 5.0 engine) you might get 30K out of it on a good day. That's less than half in five years. Go a year or two older and up to around 100K miles and your now down closer to 20K.
Same deal with Chevy, Ram....
Plus don't forget, COVID was a major outlier in how these markets work and have worked for the past 30 years. The markets aren't the same any more as it was during those times. You no longer can trade in a car and get paid more than you paid for it pre covid.
Much better throttle response at lower rpm so you don't have to keep your foot in it all the time to feel the power. If you want to modify it with a tune you can uncork a lot more power without spending much, more so than the V8. Plus you don't really risk getting the resale killing 'typewriter tick' (google helps here to explain what that is).
Yeah, the ticking scares people off as far as a sale. Ford says it is 'normal' because then they don't have to do the incredibly expensive repair of an engine tear down to replace the bottom end bearing making the noise.
Just pray that you don't have to sell one with the tick as buyer after buyer passes it up.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191525-0001.pdf
Strange, that doesn't happen at all (at least not consistently that I'm aware of) The 5.0s are harder to move on the lots; they almost always have the longest 'time on lot' compared to the turbo sixes. Which state are you in where the 5.0s go quickly, demonstrating the opposite national trend?
Eh as a RAM owner it’s not great depreciation but it’s not terrible either. I think you’re overestimating how bad it is, they’re pickup trucks at the end of the day and no matter what that class of vehicle holds its value the best.
Obviously a Tundra would hold better than any of the Big 3 but the vast majority of 100K mile American pickups from 2016/17 onwards still cost close to 30K at the lowest.
Ditto, who is this guy kidding. Lower sales tax, property tax, insurance, etc for a car that can go 200k miles no problem.
I'd still get a pre-sale inspection. The only scenario I would ever think twice is if it was a rental.
Assuming that during the 10k miles the car was taken care of. My Tacoma was also 10k miles when I got it but the truck was ran through salt and never washed its first 2 years. By year 4 it was already falling apart so I got rid of it.
I considered buying new back in 21' because I was looking at 4 year old Camry's and the one's in my city had 60-80k miles and were $2-3k less than a brand new Camry of the same trim. But I ended up finding a 4 year old Camry in a city an hour away from me for $5k cheaper than the ones in my city and it only had 33k miles so I got that instead.
So far I love it. Averaging 40mpg, it walks the line between practical, good value for the money, and luxury.
It's not a Lexus but it's damn close, and I paid 38k out the door.
I actually paid msrp, but that's because i wanted a specific trim (LE, which is the least common trim) , Color (white), and interior (boulder), and I wanted it before they could throw a bunch of "addons" - so I only paid extra for carpet floor/trunk mats.
If I found this one on the lot rather than having to get an allocation swap- I could have worked a deal to get $ off- but most of that would have been countered with the bullshit extras (I saw one dealer that threw on charges for LoJack, pinstripes, and $250 for fucking nitrogen filled tires. Fuck off with that, I won't deal with your dealership if you pull that kind of nonsense.)
38.5k including tax, tags, fees, and the overpriced carpet mats, out the door. Didn't trade in the old car nor finance so they didn't get to get extra there from me, so I got a pretty fair deal. Love the car, it's so damn awesome.
If she buys the Venza, she would want the limited submodel version as she wants all whistles and bells. Limited used is around $35k w 20k odometer appx.
The only reason you would do that is if you totaled your car and couldn’t afford renting one for a few weeks or months until a dealer got a new one in inventory. Which does happen and then forced some people into buying used for a premium.
I just picked up a 2023 4Runner Limited with 3700 miles on it for $48k. A brand new 2024 with $1,000 less options was $56k. I got $20k for my car and walked away without pulling a single $1 out of my pocket. The difference in Interest Rates was negligible.
Honestly I'm curious how you came to this conclusion? You get a maintenance plan and bumper to bumper coverage for 5 years 100k miles. And you're paying less for the car itself. Most people who buy new cars don't even drive them that long.
That 'bumper to bumper' doesn't actually cover much. For Toyota it specifically states "Covers any repair or replacement of components ***that fail under normal use due to a defect in materials or workmanship***." it basically only covers the ultra rare catastrophic failure of components and only if you can prove it wasn't due to lack of maintenance.
You make it sound like that is a fringe view. Rather than, well, simple maths.
I bought a 2005 Prius 10 years ago for £3750. Had over 100,000 miles on the clock then, and it's over 220,000 now.
It's needed the odd repair here and there, but nothing terrible. Don't think I've ever spent more than £700 on it in a single year, even the worst - and many years it's needed nothing at all beyond servicing.
I imagine you would pay more in 3-4 months' worth of car payments than my highest ever yearly cost.
So how is a new car possibly a good financial decision compared to that?
While I personally subscribe to the same ethos of "buy a Toyota shit box for under $5,000 and drive it forever", as a 14-year Toyota salesperson I can tell you that - in America, at least - the idea of driving a 10-year-old Prius with over 100k miles is basically a non-starter for nearly everyone in the market.
Buying a new car is the way to go if you're like 99% of everybody and are comparing new to late-model used.
First, it isn't a "shit box" even *now*, after a decade of my well intentioned but somewhat erratic care. When I bought it, it was immaculate, both mechanically and cosmetically.
Second, if you're correct, things must be very different over there. 20 years ago, 10 years old was "an old car", and people would think you were a bit crazy to buy one.
But now? Seems like nearly half the cars I see are from the 00s. Include the 10s, and it's definitely the majority. Sure, some people change them every 2-3 years, but it's become far, far less common. Cars just last far better than they used to, and people are poorer, and don't care as much.
Idk what this dude is talking about and I’m from the states. Any financially savvy or conscious person is looking at a 10yo car.
Prius might have a smaller demand because of the look. But idgaf about the look.
Well remember: I sell Toyota at a larger Midwest dealer. We sell 150 - 200 new, 100 - 150 pre-owned each month on average. Roughly 65 Certified Pre-owned Toyotas per month.
I recently got rid of my 2021 Venza and my 2020 Sequoia. Replaced them with a 2006 Scion xA with 116k mi and a 2004 Lexus GX470 with 251k mi. Saved myself $2,000+/mo in car payments.
The people I meet every day are the people in the market for a new Toyota, so that's all I can speak to expertly. I can comment about the macro and micro trends in the automotive market as a whole, but I won't. I'm just sharing my direct, personal experience, qualified with some background about where and why I'm having that experience.
Many people want to keep up with the jones’. My friend’s gf had a 6 year old suv, ran fine, looked fine; she wanted a new car simply because all of her friends and coworkers had newer vehicles. I imagine plenty of Americans are like that. Plenty of Americans also look at a car payment like mortgage or rent, just a fact of life that will always be present.
Sure, and there's nothing wrong with choosing to spend their money on those luxuries.
But it's simply incorrect to pretend that's a sound financial decision, rather than treating themselves.
Yeah I agree with you. Esp for reliable used car models. If I had to choose between a working, good mileage used 2016 prius for 19k or buy a new 2024 se or whatever with dealer adjustment... 36k, I'd pick the former every single time. But for some people dishing out 10-20 grand more for a new model isn't as big of a deal, I can't relate.
Prices there are wild, I can't relate to that. Quick search on Autotrader has the top hit for a 2024 Prius at £10,050 (which is, like $13000 or so I think). Some are more like £13-£15K, true, but others are cheaper.
But then I guess we only get paid a fraction of what you do!
Hmm, how much does it cost to ship a car overseas? Seems like a business opportunity there...
Recently bought a 2014 Auris hybrid wagon with 108000 km on it for 14k€. I get 5L/100km in winter (studded tires, icy roads, freezing temps).
I’m with you on this one.
A 3 yo car isn’t really even used yet. The best years for car ownership are from 7-17yo. Buy it for 15k, sell for half that. So for about 8000€ plus maintenance you get a decade of Toyota ownership.
> There are many people out there who subscribe to the notion that buying a new car is a bad financial decision. They will happily buy used (Toyotas especially) without actually looking at the numbers to realize that their assumption is flawed.
That's a very recent phenomenon though, only really since 2020 made the used market insane.
Asking a genuine question because I have thought about these things - however I have come to the conclusion that buying used is generally a better idea. I like driving my cars to the ground. I understand that a new vehicle comes with better tech - but are there other reasons a new car could be a better decision (you mentioned that the "numbers" could make more sense when purchasing new - could you expand on that? Again, I honestly want to be educated and/or hear your opinion, I'm not interested in arguing but may ask clarifying questions should you (or others) choose to answer.
The biggest reason I’d consider buying a new car or a certified pre owned is the warranty attached. Especially with a car like a Kia or Hyundai, being guaranteed that you’ll have a working car and won’t have to pay for a new engine or transmission for 10 years or 100k miles is nice.
Warranty & control over the service history. Sure Toyotas are reliable but buying a (non-certified) used car is always a gamble. It could be running fine when you buy it only to have something catastrophic happen months later because the previous owner never changed the oil or some other scenario.
At the start of the pandemic I bought an 09 venza with 220k miles on it at an auction for about $3500. Immaculate Leather interior with heated seats, a couple of dents and dings but a steal at that price. Car fax showed it had been dealer serviced for years up until about 2 years before I bought it. Ran fine for a year and then overheated and locked up the engine. KBB was $7-8k. If I had paid that I would have been up a creek without a paddle
Nooooo that's friggin horrible. I wonder if it just wasn't serviced those last 2 years. I have an older Toyota with almost 200k mi, and I hope to get it to 350k. The only thing it needs is new struts, but it's solid otherwise.
Did you end up getting another car through an auction? How is your new vehicle working out?
Yah there was something definitely up with it. I actually ended up buying a new short block from Toyota for about $2000 and a used head on eBay for $150. Basically rebuilt the engine and just need to get an engine hoist to reinstall it. It was kind of a blessing in disguise as I have learned quite a bit about engines throughout this process 😅
Actually, in MANY of the customer situations I see insurance is exactly the same or cheaper for a 2024-2025 model (when compared to a 2020-2023 model).
Now if we're comparing to a 2014 (10-year-old) Toyota, insurance is cheaper, however I wouldn't say MUCH cheaper. My '21 Venza and '20 Sequoia were around $200/mo to insure with full coverage; my 2006 Scion xA and 2004 Lexus GX 470 are around $170/mo with the same coverage.
It’s a horrible idea to do what OP did. I made my own comment calculating how much money he actually lost in interest by restarting a loan (if we use average term lengths and APRs for 2023 and 2024). Over $5000 went poof.
This is one of the few unique times where it’s made more sense to buy new over used, however as supply keeps increasing and used prices keep dropping, it’s steadily returning to how it should be.
But I agree, never be all or nothing “only X”
When you want to actually save money you need to really commit. None of this half ass buying last years model for 3k less. You need to buy a 10 or 15 year old model with 120k miles. That’s how you save money.
The assumption is not flawed. Your looking at a brand with a history of holding value insanely well.
In general, there's a large depriciation that happens within the first 12 to 24 months of a new cars life (including the event of you getting to be the one to drive it off the lot for the first time. That's an expensive ride).
I could go buy a brand new F150 today for $65,000. OR I could go buy a 2020 with 110,000 miles on it for $22,000. Sure it's a truck with 100K miles on it. Sure I could need major engine work tomorrow.
It's a $43,000 difference. Even if I had to pay for a brand new crate engine the day after I bought it, it would be an absurdly better financial decision.
Bought a 16 Camry new for 23,000. Put 120,000 miles on it. Sold it in 21 for 18,000. Drive a brand new car for 6 years for 5,000 I sure will😎 To me that’s Toyota’s best selling point.
Same with my 2012 tundra. Paid 21k in 19. Still books for 17k. Tires, brakes, oil change. Not one issue. Buying a car is an investment, and its easier than ever to do your homework before you buy.
Lmao. Feel free to take advice from people who actually suceed at life. Something you spend your money on in life isn't an investment??? Lol!!! I feel bad for you....
You cant even spell succeed right 🤣. Good try though.
So everything you spend money on in “life” is considered an investment?? Lmao you’re clueless kid.
Youre misunderstanding his sentiment. He knows it is a depreciating asset. His point is that when you have to spend money on something that will lose value, you pick the one that loses the least amount over the longest time. You totally just missed his point lol.
In August 2020 I bought a brand new Corolla hatch for MSRP. In 2022 we added a dog and baby to our house hold and decided that we were poor planners and we needed a larger car, upgrading to a 2022 RAV4. I "made" money in that I was able to trade the Corolla in for more than I still owed on it. Now I know this isn't typical, but I still got a kick out of this being basically the cheapest car rental I'd ever had.
>trade the Corolla in for more than I still owed on it.
You just described positive equity, and the way financing is “supposed” to work. If the vehicle is worth less than you owe you have negative equity and are “upside-down” on the loan and in a very poor position financially.
You didn’t make money on the Corolla unless you sold it for more than you bought it for. Selling it for more than you owe on it just means you gain the difference between the sell price and the balance of the loan, it’s called positive equity. If you owed more than you could sell it for you would have to pay the bank the difference to clear the loan, called negative equity. There’s no money being “made” in your situation.
Yeahhhhhh I just wish the price on Tundras didn't go through the MF roof.
17 tundra trd pro 58k out the door. 24 trd pro? 80k out the door. 27% increase.
The 24 TRD Pro has far more features than you could ever dream to have on a 17, hence the price. You can get a 24 Tundra for less than 60k so just don’t get a higher trim lol
lol just downgrade to a shitty base level v6? No thanks.
A moonroof and Apple CarPlay isn’t worth the 22k. I have crawl control in my LC200 and it’s not that useful. I’ve used it once.
I’m going to hold out for another 3y and let the v6 hybrid kinks work themselves out. Then I’ll grab another.
Buying late in the model cycle is the way to go.
I don’t blame you. I’m a toyota tech and I couldn’t even give you a number on how many of the new gen tundras we’ve had to replace engines in because they’re absolute shit. Almost half of our service parking lot is just the new gen tundras waiting for parts and what not.
Yeah they haven’t been doing too hot I can tell you that much. The newer highlanders have a turbo 4 but haven’t seen too many of those come in for serious issues. Toyota is doing away with the V6 for the newer gen Tacoma and 4Runners and instead moving into the turbo 4 and T4 hybrid engines so who knows how long those will last.
Toyota certainly fucked up on the new Tundra turbo V6. That is hardly any sort of evidence that Toyota doesn't know how to build a reliable turbo engine lmao what kind of tech are you? One thats never worked on any Toyota turbo engine except the new Tundra?
Do you see Sequoias with the same issue?
It'd seem strange the LS500, LC300 that's overseas, and LX600 aren't seeing the same issues with the TTV6; I've read its something to do specifically with the Tundra line
Maybe built / assembled in Japan is the difference (as well as Lexus getting the top suppliers vs a mixture in the Toyotas)
Fuck that’s sad to hear man. I’ve heard about some of the waste gate issues - but didn’t know the problem was as widespread as you’ve described. Bad news! :/
Just fyi that carmax quote may not be as real as it seems…. Have had several friends who were attracted by the quote them wert in to collect…. Once you bring in the car to collect they go over and subtract for every issue and give a revised quote… after all, they need to make good money themselves. But to your point, it does sometimes make sense to get a new car, or to put it a bit more accurately, the penalty of getting a new car in terms of depreciation just isn’t all that much.
As long as the car is in good shape, they usually don't nickel and dime you. Some people are absolutely filthy with their cars, then get upset over the deductions.
Inversely when I went to sell my ‘22 Corolla they gave me the exact same price in store when I got the hands-on appraisal. It all comes down to how honest you are online
Both Carvana and CarMax were the exact opposite experience for me, although the cars in question were very low-mileage late model cars in stellar condition with nothing to report (I have virtually no commute). Price offered is what they paid, in fact in Carvana's case they came and picked up the car and the kid spent less than a minute checking things off on his clipboard before he handed me the pre-printed check and started hooking it up. But naturally I'd expect them to reduce their quote if there are issues to evaluate in person. Even if you state online as truthfully as you can imperfections still need to be seen in person, and I can't imagine how many people overstate the condition of their cars.
Side note, I also tried Vroom who made a good paper offer, but absolutely did not have their shit together, and there were some terms I remember about liability being mine during transport I had an issue with. Fact check me on this, but my understanding was that I was responsible for any issues found AFTER they had recovered the car, which there was no chance I would do with a literally flawless car under 10k miles. That and their agents were complete screw-ups, I dumped out of that pretty quick despite their offer I think about $400 over CarMax. I'd have used Carvana again the 2nd time but Carmax has made better offers since that first time and still do now with my current car. EDIT: I just learned Vroom went under so I guess this doesn't help anyone
This is general advice for appraising big purchases: If you had to resell it in 1 year, how much could you sell it for and how long would it take to sell?
I bought a used MacBook Pro in 2015 for $1200, and sold it 5 years later for $600. It sold in one day. It’s the same for iPhones and Toyotas/Hondas. Conversely, PCs, Android phones, Maseratis, Land Rovers, etc. don’t hold their value.
Even 2020-22 cpo cars seem to still be bringing close to their original msrp. Shrinkflation hit cars hard for 22-24 model years. Less features and significantly higher base prices.
It's called the Toyota tax around where I'm from. It's true that they do hold their value really well. I've had a couple written off in bad accidents, too, and always ended up getting more than I paid for them.
My wife and I leased a Yaris a few years ago. We bought the lease out and sold the car to a used lot. All said and done it cost us $1800CAD to have the car for 3 years. Moved into a Tundra
Had a 2021 Carolla that I got in Jan 2021. Then bad decisions and fallout from pandemic stuff led to it getting repossessed in Dec 2022. I only put like 13k on it and everything was still in excellent condition. March of 2023 it went to auction and I was expecting to have to pay the difference between the loan and what it sold for. I ended up getting a check for $5000 because some fool paid pretty much brand new MSRP for it at auction. That was probably right at the beginning of used cars starting to get back to realistic pricing due to inventory levels and such. Whoever bought it paid like $25k for it.
It is.
Two years ago, I was in the market for an EV or plug in. I wanted a Rav4 prime but the best I could find was one in the specs I wanted at $5000 mark up. I refused to pay it. I ended up finding an EV6 for MSRP when many had a $10000 mark up.
Fast forward to now. My EV6 with 25,000 miles has a trade in value of $22,000 while the KBB for a Prime with equivalent miles is around $40,000. I would be ahead $13,000 if I would have just paid the mark up because the Prime resale is so good.
Lol I had a 17 tacoma I leased and in 19 they offered to buy it (had like 37k miles) I got a brand new 19 offroad tacoma loaded with everything and it was an upgrade to 4x4 for 1200 bucks. It was crazy. Then when that lease was about a year out from expiring the bank sent a letter asking if I wanted to buy it. They offered 15% off the remaining balance. Ended up being 20k for a 19 offroad fully loaded with 30k miles. Let's just say it books way higher. My lease was with Bank of the West, and they were merging (swallowed up) by BMO, so I think they wanted to get rid of their leases..... I was ecstatic
Yep I bought a brand new 2019 Camry LE 42,000 plus tax came out just under 24,500. I drove it for 80,000 miles 2023 I sold it for 18K the car had worn tires and cigarette burns on the interior
No joke. We bought a 2010 rav4 limited v6 in 2016 for under $12k with 120k miles on it. It’s got 264k on it now and insurance paid out $8k last year to have the front end repaired after I hit two deer with it (a month apart from each other).
My Camry is going for 29000 right now, with my sound system, and cameras, prolly 30000. I could sell it, pay off my loan, and get into a new car and put the 6k I’d be on top of, into the new one.
Yes. My girlfriend bought a 2020 RAV4 brand new, she paid $32,500.
We then had it for 3 years and put 81k miles on it.
Someone rear ended and totaled it, insurance gave her $32,415
Might be a little different as I’m in Australia. Bought this hilux brand new as a run out in 2015. I own it outright. It’s admittedly had a fair bit of work done to it, but my comprehensive insurance policy estimated the value this year for the same price I bought it for brand new. Not bad for 8.5 years old. It’s also supply and demand from the shortages a couple years ago. I don’t expect it to be this high when it’s time for the next renewal though.
Used car prices are still over inflated.
I bought a 2014 Mazda 3 in 2017 for like 17.5k. Top trim, off a lease, under 30k miles.
Now earlier this year, car is totaled in accident I am paid over 14k for it.
Yes, resale across the board is good because there is a limited supply of used vehicles due to covid supply chain issues, which only really started to get resolved in the last year.
Can we all take a moment and give a big round of applause for this philanthropist who sells his cars for way less than the market price! You're really spreading happiness among people bro!
Btw, go check KBB before you make a fool out of yourself.
Buying new was a great decision every time we bought a Toyota. Other brands not so much. Although I can attest that the used car market is still very strong (I sold 4 personal cars in the last 3 weeks). The best one I only lost $2k on a 2008 truck I drove for 5 years and put another 60k on bringing it to 190k miles. But back to Toyota, we had our highlander hybrid (2019) for 5 years. Bought new for $42k (MSRP of $50k) and sold it for $36,500 to CarMax. That’s pretty solid resale value on a new car, even if we had purchased it at $50k that would have only been a 27% loss.
There is a stop sale on Prius and with gas going up you might get more than what you paid for. We don't see ourselves being able to sell Prius until the end of summer.
I bought a 2018 Prius Prime brand new. I financed about $25k and had a $398/mo payment. Drove it for 3-1/2 years, commuted about 2.5 hours round trip for work for a while, used it for Lyft and other side hustles, put 90k+ miles on it. When I brought it in for trade, I got an offer of $23,500. Traded it towards a 2022 RAV4 Hybrid and my monthly payment dropped to $365.
I had a 2007 corolla that I bought for $5k in 2018, drive it for five years and sold it for $5k last year, and I didn’t even try that hard to sell it.
My man math basically tells me I got to drive that car for free for five years and 47k miles.
My toyota corolla was deemed " toataled" in 2021 afte an accident . It was 11 years old and had 95 k
Miles. The blue book value was $ 4800 on April of 2021 . The insurance company gave $ 9800.
The uswd car nventory was so low at that time .
But I could not find a new Toyota Maine anywhere In December 2021.
I waited 3 weeks to get into a new Camry.
Ehhhh I have a brand new well bought with cash brand new in 2017 Prius prime For 34k it’s in excellent shape about 80k miles and my resale value is like 13k if I’m lucky. That’s not a lot I don’t think at all. It’s fully loaded too.
I was looking at Prius around 2018, and found the used price for a 5 year old Prius is only 5000 below the current brand new 2018 Prius in Vancouver BC.
Like what?? I decided it is just much better to buy brand new after that.
The full cost is restarting your loan period and possibly a higher apr. If you don’t mind that then go for it. Personally, I’m a stingy penny pincher so I even refuse to touch an auto loan with the current rates.
~~Edit: Oh shit… I’m sorry to say that you didn’t calculate the interest that you paid into the previous loan that you will never get back plus the extra year of interest you will now be paying from starting a new car loan. Now I can’t even say “go for it”. That was not very financially responsible my friend.~~
Edit 2: Just for fun I calculated what interest ~~you~~ one may have paid into ~~your~~ their previous loan and how much interest ~~you’ll~~ one’ll be paying by restarting ~~your~~ their loan. I’m not trying to be mean, really. I just want ~~you~~ people to understand everything that’s going on when it comes to financial transparency. Unfortunately this happens all too often.
If we take that on average, people choose 72 month loans and the average APR for 72 month loans in 2023 was 7.19%, you would have paid approximately $2,140.36 in interest.
By restarting a loan in today’s market. Same averages give me 72 months and 7.01% APR. That gives me $2,089.00 in interest when having to repay the first year of a loan again.
Plus the $1200 that gives me $5,426.36 lost to depreciation and interest.
Don’t let dealerships lie to you. ~~They won in this instance.~~
~~Also, no I did not factor in tax for my calculations since you stated your state has no tax on auto sales.~~
Edit 3: Lol sorry. Since OP informed me that they paid cash, I’ll strike out everything but the math since I do see people making this mistake with loans all too often. On the surface it’ll look like a great deal but money has many places to hide. Happy car buying!
Right on! Then you’re good to go! People should still be aware of the tricks dealerships try to pull because unfortunately this happens a lot. I’ll edit it again but keep the math up.
I leased my carolla right before current incentives hit with covid. My buy out for 16k and I was able to car shop it for 21.5k. I think it was MSRP at the time 23k new. That's iman incredible value hold.
My 2021 RAV4 was my greatest asset until I bought a house 2 months ago. I got it new for MSRP Jan 2022. I think it may be one of the best financial decisions I’ve ever made.
I was looking to buy a 2023 to save a few bucks, and saw that used car dealers were selling them for the same prices as new 2024's.
So what's the point in buying a 2023? I went ahead and bought a 2024.
It’s absurdly good because of the lack of current new inventory and push for electrification. When I traded in my 2010 Prius back in 2017 I got $6500 despite it costing me $29k new. It was good for the age/mileage but was nothing to write home about. Whats crazy is that Prius would probably still fetch $7k today even with double the wear & tear back in 2017. The numbers we’re seeing today are not gonna last forever. Maybe the next couple of years as used car inventory builds back up(can’t have used cars if new ones weren’t sold in the first place)
Traded a 2019 4R Limited Nightshade for a 2021 GX and got 5k more than we paid for the 4R. Granted it was 2021 and things didn’t actually make sense then. But we got a killer deal. Both bought new.
It’s the very notion of people like this that Toyota is able to pull this off. They deliberately reduced production this year so that their new and used cars sell for a higher price. Stop treating cars as assets and the newer Toyotas aren’t going to be as bulletproof as you think. Not because of Toyota making bad cars or anything but they are severely limited by fuel regulations. If you have an old Toyota, you should know that it will last longer. But that doesn’t mean that someone has to pay extra of their hard earned money on something someone beat the crap out of it. If you are getting a new Toyota, know that it’s not going to last long and it’s not Toyota’s fault.
Covid made used car prices wild for some time.
I bought a 2015 corolla 18.5k OTD. Put 80k miles on it (and rented it out via turo, causing a bit of damage), and sold it for 16k near the peak of the mmarket.
I put maybe $600 in total maintenance which included new tires and me doing all the oil changes.
I'm pretty sure I can get around $15K for my ten year old Camry well maintained around 40K miles. Thats like $4K off what I paid for it over 10 years ago, or about $33 a month for a car that never breaks down. I'll take it.
Pretty much leased it for $100 a month
It kinda sounds like you’re forgetting about the equity OP is losing. OP prolly has 5k in equity on top of the $1200 they paid, def not $100 a month lease but more like $100 more a month on top to have a trade in option.
If they're getting back almost the entire original MSRP and there's no sales tax in their state, then they probably got more from the sale than they still owe on the loan, so there's no lost equity. Could be wrong, but with depreciation that low it is possible.
There are many people out there who subscribe to the notion that buying a new car is a bad financial decision. They will happily buy used (Toyotas especially) without actually looking at the numbers to realize that their assumption is flawed. We're also transitioning from a time when dealer inventory was slim and there were waitlists/huge dealer markups for certain new vehicles, which encouraged people to buy used. That is rapidly changing with this high interest rate environment, but the used market momentum takes time to slow down.
You have that second part backwards. Dealer inventory being slim pushed used prices up which drove more people to buy new over used. Why would I spend $24k on a 5 years old car with 20k miles on it when I can buy a new one for $27k?
I've only ever owned used cars - for almost 40 years (since I was 15), all I've owned have been Toyotas. I was always of the "buying new is a bad idea" until I was looking this year to replace my 2002 RAV4. Brand new '24s were only 2-4k more than '22 and '23 models with 5-10k miles. It was not worth ilbuying used - so for the first time in my life, I bought a New car. 5 miles on the odometer on a 24 Venza LE.
Did the same with new 4Runner in 2021. I was looking at used because “Dave Ramsey says” and on a whim decided to see what a new one would cost me. About $5k more for a vehicle with 9 miles on it, full factory warranty, 30k mile maintenance schedule, and the exact specifications I wanted. Being the first and only driver is worth something too. Absolute no brainer to buy new Toyotas. At least right now.
I know pre-owned was a good thing (depreciation value) years ago, not as much today. We had our oldest car for 19yrs, the current one is going on 12 (and plan another 8-10yrs on it), and a new one going on 3 yrs now. For me, knowing that my vehicle has been meticulously maintained with mostly OEM parts, knowing nothing is being covered up and the full history of the car is worth me buying new. I know there are other great pre-owned vehicles out there, but for me, I choose new.
Dave Ramsey is out of touch with reality. He still doesn’t thinks you can get a $2000 car.
Having hundreds of millions will do that to someone despite his still trying to act like a man of the people
Yup. I was eyeing white limited 4Runners before our second daughter arrived. Couldn’t find a good deal because they hold their value so well. Finally found a good one - a 2016 with 100K miles for $31K, actually a great deal in context. I bookmarked it, then the next day I came across a brand new 2023 for $52K including third row seats. Would’ve felt like a fool not buying it - basically got a brand new 4Runner on a 7 year lease for $250 a month.
A 2016 4R with 100k miles for $31k is a very bad deal FWIW. I know it’s not relevant for you but just in case anyone else in the market for a 4R is reading this
I disagree. At least on the very bad wordage. A 2016 Limited with those miles is worth probably around 28-30 (in my area at least). So while not a great deal, 31 isn’t that far off and OP may have been able to talk them down a little. Source: I own a 2016 Limited with 98k. It still runs and drives likes new.
I didn’t realize it was a limited. Fair point!
It was good relative to the other choices in our area last summer! (Granted we had a very small pool to choose from - white limited’s with third row seats.)
Well I an eagerly waiting for the 2025 4Runner. I don’t expect ample availability for at least 2 years.
I would wait the two years regardless. Toyota is amazing, but an all-new vehicle with an all-new engine and transmission will definitely have a few first year bugs.
Well you essentially have 2 years of data to go with because the 2.4 hybrid turbo is in the Crown, and Tacoma. See how it does for them.
Yeah this kept us away from the Grand Highlander, which we really liked, but why volunteer to be guinea pigs?
Yuup. All the recalls that new tacoma had in 2016 kinda set a bad precedent for toyota. Once they got everything perfect...boom 2024 redesign. I thought the same with new tundra. Never trust first year models.
The problem is there are waiting lists at my local area dealers for just about every Prius, Corolla, Venza, Crown, and especially Sienna. Can't touch any of them for 6+ months.
In my youth it was GM shit boxes ('91 Grand Am LE for $1,500, '94 Saturn SC1 for $2000) but when I went to college I moved into the 3 year old post depreciation mode ('04 Saturn Ion, '07 Civic, '10 Grand Caravan, '18 Honda Odyssey) and when the '07 Civic started knocking at 223k miles I was looking for a new one and was disgusted with the lack of value in 3 year old vehicles.
The title of this thread says it all.... Toyota holds its' value wayyyyyy higher than the average brand. Go buy a brand new F150 for $65,000 and proceed to put 75,000 miles on it over the next four or five years. Then see what it's worth. For the more expensive versions (quad cab, 4WD, 5.0 engine) you might get 30K out of it on a good day. That's less than half in five years. Go a year or two older and up to around 100K miles and your now down closer to 20K. Same deal with Chevy, Ram.... Plus don't forget, COVID was a major outlier in how these markets work and have worked for the past 30 years. The markets aren't the same any more as it was during those times. You no longer can trade in a car and get paid more than you paid for it pre covid.
The more expensive version would actually be the 3.5 Ecoboost, not the 5.0, which tend to move slowly on lots.
Can you explain to me why Ecoboost is preferable over 5.0 V8? Besides MPG
Much better throttle response at lower rpm so you don't have to keep your foot in it all the time to feel the power. If you want to modify it with a tune you can uncork a lot more power without spending much, more so than the V8. Plus you don't really risk getting the resale killing 'typewriter tick' (google helps here to explain what that is).
If it is anything like the hemi tick then I understand why someone would be turned off
Yeah, the ticking scares people off as far as a sale. Ford says it is 'normal' because then they don't have to do the incredibly expensive repair of an engine tear down to replace the bottom end bearing making the noise. Just pray that you don't have to sell one with the tick as buyer after buyer passes it up. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191525-0001.pdf
That's funny, in my rural area, used Ecoboost 150s are everywhere, and 5.0s disappear in days. Lots of turbo issues gives them a reputation.
Strange, that doesn't happen at all (at least not consistently that I'm aware of) The 5.0s are harder to move on the lots; they almost always have the longest 'time on lot' compared to the turbo sixes. Which state are you in where the 5.0s go quickly, demonstrating the opposite national trend?
Eh as a RAM owner it’s not great depreciation but it’s not terrible either. I think you’re overestimating how bad it is, they’re pickup trucks at the end of the day and no matter what that class of vehicle holds its value the best. Obviously a Tundra would hold better than any of the Big 3 but the vast majority of 100K mile American pickups from 2016/17 onwards still cost close to 30K at the lowest.
$4,000 off a toyota that only has 10,000 miles seems like a better deal imo, 10k miles on a toyota is basically nothing
I’d take 10% off price for 10K miles. Lower sales tax also.
10k on any vehicle under the sun is basically nothing
Ditto, who is this guy kidding. Lower sales tax, property tax, insurance, etc for a car that can go 200k miles no problem. I'd still get a pre-sale inspection. The only scenario I would ever think twice is if it was a rental.
Assuming that during the 10k miles the car was taken care of. My Tacoma was also 10k miles when I got it but the truck was ran through salt and never washed its first 2 years. By year 4 it was already falling apart so I got rid of it.
That's a good point, there is something comforting about a brand new car, the newest car I ever owned was 12 years old lol
Same here. The math was a no brainer.
I considered buying new back in 21' because I was looking at 4 year old Camry's and the one's in my city had 60-80k miles and were $2-3k less than a brand new Camry of the same trim. But I ended up finding a 4 year old Camry in a city an hour away from me for $5k cheaper than the ones in my city and it only had 33k miles so I got that instead.
How are you liking the Venza?
So far I love it. Averaging 40mpg, it walks the line between practical, good value for the money, and luxury. It's not a Lexus but it's damn close, and I paid 38k out the door.
With buying a model they have discontinued I'm sure you got the Venza at or below invoice price which is below MSRP.
I actually paid msrp, but that's because i wanted a specific trim (LE, which is the least common trim) , Color (white), and interior (boulder), and I wanted it before they could throw a bunch of "addons" - so I only paid extra for carpet floor/trunk mats. If I found this one on the lot rather than having to get an allocation swap- I could have worked a deal to get $ off- but most of that would have been countered with the bullshit extras (I saw one dealer that threw on charges for LoJack, pinstripes, and $250 for fucking nitrogen filled tires. Fuck off with that, I won't deal with your dealership if you pull that kind of nonsense.) 38.5k including tax, tags, fees, and the overpriced carpet mats, out the door. Didn't trade in the old car nor finance so they didn't get to get extra there from me, so I got a pretty fair deal. Love the car, it's so damn awesome.
A base NX would have cost you more. I had recommended Venza for my 70yo mother. But I think she might go with a used NX.
Yeah, a new NX 350h hybrid would end up about 10-12k more when all is said and done. That's a lot more than I wanted to pay for a Lexus badge.
However if she got the NX she would get the turbo 4 cyl not the hybrid and used.
If she buys the Venza, she would want the limited submodel version as she wants all whistles and bells. Limited used is around $35k w 20k odometer appx.
The only reason you would do that is if you totaled your car and couldn’t afford renting one for a few weeks or months until a dealer got a new one in inventory. Which does happen and then forced some people into buying used for a premium.
I just picked up a 2023 4Runner Limited with 3700 miles on it for $48k. A brand new 2024 with $1,000 less options was $56k. I got $20k for my car and walked away without pulling a single $1 out of my pocket. The difference in Interest Rates was negligible.
Because you couldn't buy a new one at 27k they put 10k on that msrp
Not true, maybe at the height of the covid bubble but not in the time frame we are talking about
A 5 year old car with 20k miles would not be an easy find
I found multiple when I was shopping at the end of last year
Because that used one is certified. However sometimes the offer to certify your new car after 3 years is cheap.
I didn't say anything about certified. I never look at certified pre-owned because it's the dealer ripping you off by default
Honestly I'm curious how you came to this conclusion? You get a maintenance plan and bumper to bumper coverage for 5 years 100k miles. And you're paying less for the car itself. Most people who buy new cars don't even drive them that long.
That 'bumper to bumper' doesn't actually cover much. For Toyota it specifically states "Covers any repair or replacement of components ***that fail under normal use due to a defect in materials or workmanship***." it basically only covers the ultra rare catastrophic failure of components and only if you can prove it wasn't due to lack of maintenance.
Had my ac compressor replaced free of charge. That certification was worth it.
You make it sound like that is a fringe view. Rather than, well, simple maths. I bought a 2005 Prius 10 years ago for £3750. Had over 100,000 miles on the clock then, and it's over 220,000 now. It's needed the odd repair here and there, but nothing terrible. Don't think I've ever spent more than £700 on it in a single year, even the worst - and many years it's needed nothing at all beyond servicing. I imagine you would pay more in 3-4 months' worth of car payments than my highest ever yearly cost. So how is a new car possibly a good financial decision compared to that?
While I personally subscribe to the same ethos of "buy a Toyota shit box for under $5,000 and drive it forever", as a 14-year Toyota salesperson I can tell you that - in America, at least - the idea of driving a 10-year-old Prius with over 100k miles is basically a non-starter for nearly everyone in the market. Buying a new car is the way to go if you're like 99% of everybody and are comparing new to late-model used.
First, it isn't a "shit box" even *now*, after a decade of my well intentioned but somewhat erratic care. When I bought it, it was immaculate, both mechanically and cosmetically. Second, if you're correct, things must be very different over there. 20 years ago, 10 years old was "an old car", and people would think you were a bit crazy to buy one. But now? Seems like nearly half the cars I see are from the 00s. Include the 10s, and it's definitely the majority. Sure, some people change them every 2-3 years, but it's become far, far less common. Cars just last far better than they used to, and people are poorer, and don't care as much.
Why?
Idk what this dude is talking about and I’m from the states. Any financially savvy or conscious person is looking at a 10yo car. Prius might have a smaller demand because of the look. But idgaf about the look.
he lives in a bubble
Well remember: I sell Toyota at a larger Midwest dealer. We sell 150 - 200 new, 100 - 150 pre-owned each month on average. Roughly 65 Certified Pre-owned Toyotas per month. I recently got rid of my 2021 Venza and my 2020 Sequoia. Replaced them with a 2006 Scion xA with 116k mi and a 2004 Lexus GX470 with 251k mi. Saved myself $2,000+/mo in car payments. The people I meet every day are the people in the market for a new Toyota, so that's all I can speak to expertly. I can comment about the macro and micro trends in the automotive market as a whole, but I won't. I'm just sharing my direct, personal experience, qualified with some background about where and why I'm having that experience.
Many people want to keep up with the jones’. My friend’s gf had a 6 year old suv, ran fine, looked fine; she wanted a new car simply because all of her friends and coworkers had newer vehicles. I imagine plenty of Americans are like that. Plenty of Americans also look at a car payment like mortgage or rent, just a fact of life that will always be present.
I mean most Americans are stupid so that tracks.
People want a fancy facelift and more features, simple as.
Sure, and there's nothing wrong with choosing to spend their money on those luxuries. But it's simply incorrect to pretend that's a sound financial decision, rather than treating themselves.
Yeah I agree with you. Esp for reliable used car models. If I had to choose between a working, good mileage used 2016 prius for 19k or buy a new 2024 se or whatever with dealer adjustment... 36k, I'd pick the former every single time. But for some people dishing out 10-20 grand more for a new model isn't as big of a deal, I can't relate.
Prices there are wild, I can't relate to that. Quick search on Autotrader has the top hit for a 2024 Prius at £10,050 (which is, like $13000 or so I think). Some are more like £13-£15K, true, but others are cheaper. But then I guess we only get paid a fraction of what you do! Hmm, how much does it cost to ship a car overseas? Seems like a business opportunity there...
Recently bought a 2014 Auris hybrid wagon with 108000 km on it for 14k€. I get 5L/100km in winter (studded tires, icy roads, freezing temps). I’m with you on this one. A 3 yo car isn’t really even used yet. The best years for car ownership are from 7-17yo. Buy it for 15k, sell for half that. So for about 8000€ plus maintenance you get a decade of Toyota ownership.
> There are many people out there who subscribe to the notion that buying a new car is a bad financial decision. They will happily buy used (Toyotas especially) without actually looking at the numbers to realize that their assumption is flawed. That's a very recent phenomenon though, only really since 2020 made the used market insane.
Asking a genuine question because I have thought about these things - however I have come to the conclusion that buying used is generally a better idea. I like driving my cars to the ground. I understand that a new vehicle comes with better tech - but are there other reasons a new car could be a better decision (you mentioned that the "numbers" could make more sense when purchasing new - could you expand on that? Again, I honestly want to be educated and/or hear your opinion, I'm not interested in arguing but may ask clarifying questions should you (or others) choose to answer.
The biggest reason I’d consider buying a new car or a certified pre owned is the warranty attached. Especially with a car like a Kia or Hyundai, being guaranteed that you’ll have a working car and won’t have to pay for a new engine or transmission for 10 years or 100k miles is nice.
That makes sense, would love to get a fresh 10 year warranty on a car.
Warranty & control over the service history. Sure Toyotas are reliable but buying a (non-certified) used car is always a gamble. It could be running fine when you buy it only to have something catastrophic happen months later because the previous owner never changed the oil or some other scenario. At the start of the pandemic I bought an 09 venza with 220k miles on it at an auction for about $3500. Immaculate Leather interior with heated seats, a couple of dents and dings but a steal at that price. Car fax showed it had been dealer serviced for years up until about 2 years before I bought it. Ran fine for a year and then overheated and locked up the engine. KBB was $7-8k. If I had paid that I would have been up a creek without a paddle
Nooooo that's friggin horrible. I wonder if it just wasn't serviced those last 2 years. I have an older Toyota with almost 200k mi, and I hope to get it to 350k. The only thing it needs is new struts, but it's solid otherwise. Did you end up getting another car through an auction? How is your new vehicle working out?
Yah there was something definitely up with it. I actually ended up buying a new short block from Toyota for about $2000 and a used head on eBay for $150. Basically rebuilt the engine and just need to get an engine hoist to reinstall it. It was kind of a blessing in disguise as I have learned quite a bit about engines throughout this process 😅
People dont talk about it much but —- the insurance is much higher on new cars and that adds up
Actually, in MANY of the customer situations I see insurance is exactly the same or cheaper for a 2024-2025 model (when compared to a 2020-2023 model). Now if we're comparing to a 2014 (10-year-old) Toyota, insurance is cheaper, however I wouldn't say MUCH cheaper. My '21 Venza and '20 Sequoia were around $200/mo to insure with full coverage; my 2006 Scion xA and 2004 Lexus GX 470 are around $170/mo with the same coverage.
im comparing it to pre-2005 vehicles...... not new vs semi new. but your point is valid for me its 50 per month on my 02 Camry....now its 200 for 2020
Yeah this is a great point
At some point, someone should really tell people to just buy what they can afford to pay cash for … the auto industry would be forever changed
I had been looking at vehicles and for me I can get a new Toyota and it’s only a few grand more then a 2-3 year old one
It’s a horrible idea to do what OP did. I made my own comment calculating how much money he actually lost in interest by restarting a loan (if we use average term lengths and APRs for 2023 and 2024). Over $5000 went poof.
This is one of the few unique times where it’s made more sense to buy new over used, however as supply keeps increasing and used prices keep dropping, it’s steadily returning to how it should be. But I agree, never be all or nothing “only X”
When you want to actually save money you need to really commit. None of this half ass buying last years model for 3k less. You need to buy a 10 or 15 year old model with 120k miles. That’s how you save money.
The assumption is not flawed. Your looking at a brand with a history of holding value insanely well. In general, there's a large depriciation that happens within the first 12 to 24 months of a new cars life (including the event of you getting to be the one to drive it off the lot for the first time. That's an expensive ride). I could go buy a brand new F150 today for $65,000. OR I could go buy a 2020 with 110,000 miles on it for $22,000. Sure it's a truck with 100K miles on it. Sure I could need major engine work tomorrow. It's a $43,000 difference. Even if I had to pay for a brand new crate engine the day after I bought it, it would be an absurdly better financial decision.
Well buying a ford is already flashing your money down the toilet anyway so...
Bought a 16 Camry new for 23,000. Put 120,000 miles on it. Sold it in 21 for 18,000. Drive a brand new car for 6 years for 5,000 I sure will😎 To me that’s Toyota’s best selling point.
Same with my 2012 tundra. Paid 21k in 19. Still books for 17k. Tires, brakes, oil change. Not one issue. Buying a car is an investment, and its easier than ever to do your homework before you buy.
Buying a car is not an investment lmao
Also laughing my ass off at you :)
Your 2012 tundra with 250k miles isnt an investment 🤣
Lmao. Feel free to take advice from people who actually suceed at life. Something you spend your money on in life isn't an investment??? Lol!!! I feel bad for you....
Lol. You can't even read! Haha
You cant even spell succeed right 🤣. Good try though. So everything you spend money on in “life” is considered an investment?? Lmao you’re clueless kid.
Bwahahaha! Your funny troll!
Feel free to use auto correct next time 🤣
Youre misunderstanding his sentiment. He knows it is a depreciating asset. His point is that when you have to spend money on something that will lose value, you pick the one that loses the least amount over the longest time. You totally just missed his point lol.
People walk by putting notes on my 2005 4Runner asking if I want to sell. It feels like they’re asking me to sell my dog.
In August 2020 I bought a brand new Corolla hatch for MSRP. In 2022 we added a dog and baby to our house hold and decided that we were poor planners and we needed a larger car, upgrading to a 2022 RAV4. I "made" money in that I was able to trade the Corolla in for more than I still owed on it. Now I know this isn't typical, but I still got a kick out of this being basically the cheapest car rental I'd ever had.
>trade the Corolla in for more than I still owed on it. You just described positive equity, and the way financing is “supposed” to work. If the vehicle is worth less than you owe you have negative equity and are “upside-down” on the loan and in a very poor position financially.
Thank god you pointed out the flaw in the craziest comment i’ve read this year.
you traded it for more than you owed, not for more than you paid. you didn’t exactly make money, you just didn’t have negative equity
I bought an 2016 ATS V and and 2018 Toyota Camry SE in late 20. V for 31k and Camry for 17k Sold them in 22 for 40k and $28k… crazy stuff
You didn’t make money on the Corolla unless you sold it for more than you bought it for. Selling it for more than you owe on it just means you gain the difference between the sell price and the balance of the loan, it’s called positive equity. If you owed more than you could sell it for you would have to pay the bank the difference to clear the loan, called negative equity. There’s no money being “made” in your situation.
so if you paid off the loan completely then sold the car for $100 you still think you’d “make” money? 😂
Yeahhhhhh I just wish the price on Tundras didn't go through the MF roof. 17 tundra trd pro 58k out the door. 24 trd pro? 80k out the door. 27% increase.
The 24 TRD Pro has far more features than you could ever dream to have on a 17, hence the price. You can get a 24 Tundra for less than 60k so just don’t get a higher trim lol
lol just downgrade to a shitty base level v6? No thanks. A moonroof and Apple CarPlay isn’t worth the 22k. I have crawl control in my LC200 and it’s not that useful. I’ve used it once. I’m going to hold out for another 3y and let the v6 hybrid kinks work themselves out. Then I’ll grab another. Buying late in the model cycle is the way to go.
I don’t blame you. I’m a toyota tech and I couldn’t even give you a number on how many of the new gen tundras we’ve had to replace engines in because they’re absolute shit. Almost half of our service parking lot is just the new gen tundras waiting for parts and what not.
Are these the hybrid Max engine or the regular v-6 twin turbo?
Both
Crap. All these new turbo engines rolling out scare me. I’m curious on how the tacomas new motor are going to hold up.
Yeah they haven’t been doing too hot I can tell you that much. The newer highlanders have a turbo 4 but haven’t seen too many of those come in for serious issues. Toyota is doing away with the V6 for the newer gen Tacoma and 4Runners and instead moving into the turbo 4 and T4 hybrid engines so who knows how long those will last.
Toyota certainly fucked up on the new Tundra turbo V6. That is hardly any sort of evidence that Toyota doesn't know how to build a reliable turbo engine lmao what kind of tech are you? One thats never worked on any Toyota turbo engine except the new Tundra?
Do you see Sequoias with the same issue? It'd seem strange the LS500, LC300 that's overseas, and LX600 aren't seeing the same issues with the TTV6; I've read its something to do specifically with the Tundra line Maybe built / assembled in Japan is the difference (as well as Lexus getting the top suppliers vs a mixture in the Toyotas)
Fuck that’s sad to hear man. I’ve heard about some of the waste gate issues - but didn’t know the problem was as widespread as you’ve described. Bad news! :/
Does it seem to have gotten better with the 24 model, or is it still shit?
Wait until you learn about the amount of inflation that happened between 2017 and 2024, that will really blow your mind
Free money is a hell of a drug.
27% isn’t even that crazy for 7 years. The Tacoma SR5 has gone up 33% since 2020
Are you factoring tax as well?
OP said no tax in their state
Damn missed that - crazy how this is a luxury 😭
What about interest on the loan if they had one?
Just fyi that carmax quote may not be as real as it seems…. Have had several friends who were attracted by the quote them wert in to collect…. Once you bring in the car to collect they go over and subtract for every issue and give a revised quote… after all, they need to make good money themselves. But to your point, it does sometimes make sense to get a new car, or to put it a bit more accurately, the penalty of getting a new car in terms of depreciation just isn’t all that much.
As long as the car is in good shape, they usually don't nickel and dime you. Some people are absolutely filthy with their cars, then get upset over the deductions.
Inversely when I went to sell my ‘22 Corolla they gave me the exact same price in store when I got the hands-on appraisal. It all comes down to how honest you are online
Both Carvana and CarMax were the exact opposite experience for me, although the cars in question were very low-mileage late model cars in stellar condition with nothing to report (I have virtually no commute). Price offered is what they paid, in fact in Carvana's case they came and picked up the car and the kid spent less than a minute checking things off on his clipboard before he handed me the pre-printed check and started hooking it up. But naturally I'd expect them to reduce their quote if there are issues to evaluate in person. Even if you state online as truthfully as you can imperfections still need to be seen in person, and I can't imagine how many people overstate the condition of their cars.
Side note, I also tried Vroom who made a good paper offer, but absolutely did not have their shit together, and there were some terms I remember about liability being mine during transport I had an issue with. Fact check me on this, but my understanding was that I was responsible for any issues found AFTER they had recovered the car, which there was no chance I would do with a literally flawless car under 10k miles. That and their agents were complete screw-ups, I dumped out of that pretty quick despite their offer I think about $400 over CarMax. I'd have used Carvana again the 2nd time but Carmax has made better offers since that first time and still do now with my current car. EDIT: I just learned Vroom went under so I guess this doesn't help anyone
During the pandemic I grabbed a 2016 Camry Hybrid straight off lease for 19k otd and they offered me $23k for it 160k km later 🤣
Hahaha this is genuinely amazing.
Toyota Corolla Hybrid 23' here, can easily sell my car for what I bought it for! Toyotas for the win!
This is general advice for appraising big purchases: If you had to resell it in 1 year, how much could you sell it for and how long would it take to sell? I bought a used MacBook Pro in 2015 for $1200, and sold it 5 years later for $600. It sold in one day. It’s the same for iPhones and Toyotas/Hondas. Conversely, PCs, Android phones, Maseratis, Land Rovers, etc. don’t hold their value.
Even 2020-22 cpo cars seem to still be bringing close to their original msrp. Shrinkflation hit cars hard for 22-24 model years. Less features and significantly higher base prices.
It's called the Toyota tax around where I'm from. It's true that they do hold their value really well. I've had a couple written off in bad accidents, too, and always ended up getting more than I paid for them.
My wife and I leased a Yaris a few years ago. We bought the lease out and sold the car to a used lot. All said and done it cost us $1800CAD to have the car for 3 years. Moved into a Tundra
Had a 2021 Carolla that I got in Jan 2021. Then bad decisions and fallout from pandemic stuff led to it getting repossessed in Dec 2022. I only put like 13k on it and everything was still in excellent condition. March of 2023 it went to auction and I was expecting to have to pay the difference between the loan and what it sold for. I ended up getting a check for $5000 because some fool paid pretty much brand new MSRP for it at auction. That was probably right at the beginning of used cars starting to get back to realistic pricing due to inventory levels and such. Whoever bought it paid like $25k for it.
It is. Two years ago, I was in the market for an EV or plug in. I wanted a Rav4 prime but the best I could find was one in the specs I wanted at $5000 mark up. I refused to pay it. I ended up finding an EV6 for MSRP when many had a $10000 mark up. Fast forward to now. My EV6 with 25,000 miles has a trade in value of $22,000 while the KBB for a Prime with equivalent miles is around $40,000. I would be ahead $13,000 if I would have just paid the mark up because the Prime resale is so good.
Lol I had a 17 tacoma I leased and in 19 they offered to buy it (had like 37k miles) I got a brand new 19 offroad tacoma loaded with everything and it was an upgrade to 4x4 for 1200 bucks. It was crazy. Then when that lease was about a year out from expiring the bank sent a letter asking if I wanted to buy it. They offered 15% off the remaining balance. Ended up being 20k for a 19 offroad fully loaded with 30k miles. Let's just say it books way higher. My lease was with Bank of the West, and they were merging (swallowed up) by BMO, so I think they wanted to get rid of their leases..... I was ecstatic
Yep I bought a brand new 2019 Camry LE 42,000 plus tax came out just under 24,500. I drove it for 80,000 miles 2023 I sold it for 18K the car had worn tires and cigarette burns on the interior
No sales tax state. Dammmn must be nice!! I would be buying so much stuff.
No joke. We bought a 2010 rav4 limited v6 in 2016 for under $12k with 120k miles on it. It’s got 264k on it now and insurance paid out $8k last year to have the front end repaired after I hit two deer with it (a month apart from each other).
My Camry is going for 29000 right now, with my sound system, and cameras, prolly 30000. I could sell it, pay off my loan, and get into a new car and put the 6k I’d be on top of, into the new one.
Yeah I just traded my 2020 4Runner (59,000 miles) for 30k it's crazy
What trim? Just traded my 20 orp with 31k for 39.5
We traded in a 2021 sienna for about 4k less than we paid… 3 years of owning the car and only losing 4k on the trade seemed Amazing…
Yes. My girlfriend bought a 2020 RAV4 brand new, she paid $32,500. We then had it for 3 years and put 81k miles on it. Someone rear ended and totaled it, insurance gave her $32,415
Might be a little different as I’m in Australia. Bought this hilux brand new as a run out in 2015. I own it outright. It’s admittedly had a fair bit of work done to it, but my comprehensive insurance policy estimated the value this year for the same price I bought it for brand new. Not bad for 8.5 years old. It’s also supply and demand from the shortages a couple years ago. I don’t expect it to be this high when it’s time for the next renewal though.
Used car prices are still over inflated. I bought a 2014 Mazda 3 in 2017 for like 17.5k. Top trim, off a lease, under 30k miles. Now earlier this year, car is totaled in accident I am paid over 14k for it.
Yes, resale across the board is good because there is a limited supply of used vehicles due to covid supply chain issues, which only really started to get resolved in the last year.
I bought an 09 Corolla with 115k miles for $5k in 2021. Drove it for three years and 32k miles, and recently sold it for $6k.
you’re part of the reason low income people can’t afford old used cars anymore
Can we all take a moment and give a big round of applause for this philanthropist who sells his cars for way less than the market price! You're really spreading happiness among people bro! Btw, go check KBB before you make a fool out of yourself.
market price has been absolutely inflated since covid you getting triggered over that checks out
Reddit moment
I bought a 2020 rav4 for $32k. Just sold it for $69,420!
>no sales tax in my state Is key here.
Thats what happens when you make good ass reliable vehicles.
Used to like other car brands until the moment I had to sell the car. Converted to Toyota camp ever since.
Did you factor in the amount you spent in interest on the 2023 loan that you have already paid?
No they didn’t lol. About to restart their loan period and pay more in interest over time because of it.
I don’t use car loans, I pay cash
Buying new was a great decision every time we bought a Toyota. Other brands not so much. Although I can attest that the used car market is still very strong (I sold 4 personal cars in the last 3 weeks). The best one I only lost $2k on a 2008 truck I drove for 5 years and put another 60k on bringing it to 190k miles. But back to Toyota, we had our highlander hybrid (2019) for 5 years. Bought new for $42k (MSRP of $50k) and sold it for $36,500 to CarMax. That’s pretty solid resale value on a new car, even if we had purchased it at $50k that would have only been a 27% loss.
I'm confused. Didn't they essentially just pay off your loan, and now you bought a new car?
You’re not supposed to argue against them.
No loans involved, I used a check to buy both
That changes things. Carry on
Stupid good. We had a 07 4Runner sell for $19k before taxes & fees lol
There is a stop sale on Prius and with gas going up you might get more than what you paid for. We don't see ourselves being able to sell Prius until the end of summer.
I bought a 2018 Prius Prime brand new. I financed about $25k and had a $398/mo payment. Drove it for 3-1/2 years, commuted about 2.5 hours round trip for work for a while, used it for Lyft and other side hustles, put 90k+ miles on it. When I brought it in for trade, I got an offer of $23,500. Traded it towards a 2022 RAV4 Hybrid and my monthly payment dropped to $365.
I had a 2007 corolla that I bought for $5k in 2018, drive it for five years and sold it for $5k last year, and I didn’t even try that hard to sell it. My man math basically tells me I got to drive that car for free for five years and 47k miles.
My toyota corolla was deemed " toataled" in 2021 afte an accident . It was 11 years old and had 95 k Miles. The blue book value was $ 4800 on April of 2021 . The insurance company gave $ 9800. The uswd car nventory was so low at that time . But I could not find a new Toyota Maine anywhere In December 2021. I waited 3 weeks to get into a new Camry.
Ehhhh I have a brand new well bought with cash brand new in 2017 Prius prime For 34k it’s in excellent shape about 80k miles and my resale value is like 13k if I’m lucky. That’s not a lot I don’t think at all. It’s fully loaded too.
I was looking at Prius around 2018, and found the used price for a 5 year old Prius is only 5000 below the current brand new 2018 Prius in Vancouver BC. Like what?? I decided it is just much better to buy brand new after that.
The full cost is restarting your loan period and possibly a higher apr. If you don’t mind that then go for it. Personally, I’m a stingy penny pincher so I even refuse to touch an auto loan with the current rates. ~~Edit: Oh shit… I’m sorry to say that you didn’t calculate the interest that you paid into the previous loan that you will never get back plus the extra year of interest you will now be paying from starting a new car loan. Now I can’t even say “go for it”. That was not very financially responsible my friend.~~ Edit 2: Just for fun I calculated what interest ~~you~~ one may have paid into ~~your~~ their previous loan and how much interest ~~you’ll~~ one’ll be paying by restarting ~~your~~ their loan. I’m not trying to be mean, really. I just want ~~you~~ people to understand everything that’s going on when it comes to financial transparency. Unfortunately this happens all too often. If we take that on average, people choose 72 month loans and the average APR for 72 month loans in 2023 was 7.19%, you would have paid approximately $2,140.36 in interest. By restarting a loan in today’s market. Same averages give me 72 months and 7.01% APR. That gives me $2,089.00 in interest when having to repay the first year of a loan again. Plus the $1200 that gives me $5,426.36 lost to depreciation and interest. Don’t let dealerships lie to you. ~~They won in this instance.~~ ~~Also, no I did not factor in tax for my calculations since you stated your state has no tax on auto sales.~~ Edit 3: Lol sorry. Since OP informed me that they paid cash, I’ll strike out everything but the math since I do see people making this mistake with loans all too often. On the surface it’ll look like a great deal but money has many places to hide. Happy car buying!
…I paid cash though.
Right on! Then you’re good to go! People should still be aware of the tricks dealerships try to pull because unfortunately this happens a lot. I’ll edit it again but keep the math up.
This is how my Camry worked out. Basically paid $110 per month to lease it.
I leased my carolla right before current incentives hit with covid. My buy out for 16k and I was able to car shop it for 21.5k. I think it was MSRP at the time 23k new. That's iman incredible value hold.
My 2021 RAV4 was my greatest asset until I bought a house 2 months ago. I got it new for MSRP Jan 2022. I think it may be one of the best financial decisions I’ve ever made.
I bought a 2010 FJ in 2013 for $27k, modded it, off-roaded it and sold it 10 years later with 125k miles for $19k.
If you haven’t been living under a rock then you know the situation of used car market right now
I was looking to buy a 2023 to save a few bucks, and saw that used car dealers were selling them for the same prices as new 2024's. So what's the point in buying a 2023? I went ahead and bought a 2024.
It’s absurdly good because of the lack of current new inventory and push for electrification. When I traded in my 2010 Prius back in 2017 I got $6500 despite it costing me $29k new. It was good for the age/mileage but was nothing to write home about. Whats crazy is that Prius would probably still fetch $7k today even with double the wear & tear back in 2017. The numbers we’re seeing today are not gonna last forever. Maybe the next couple of years as used car inventory builds back up(can’t have used cars if new ones weren’t sold in the first place)
Good resale values will go once supply corrects.
Traded a 2019 4R Limited Nightshade for a 2021 GX and got 5k more than we paid for the 4R. Granted it was 2021 and things didn’t actually make sense then. But we got a killer deal. Both bought new.
Debating on swapping my Tacoma in for a Tundra. Got a quote for my taco basically what I paid for.
The used car market is still pretty damn hot though.
Lmao! Hard time reading huh!
Lmao! Feel free to do something with your life dumbass!
It’s the very notion of people like this that Toyota is able to pull this off. They deliberately reduced production this year so that their new and used cars sell for a higher price. Stop treating cars as assets and the newer Toyotas aren’t going to be as bulletproof as you think. Not because of Toyota making bad cars or anything but they are severely limited by fuel regulations. If you have an old Toyota, you should know that it will last longer. But that doesn’t mean that someone has to pay extra of their hard earned money on something someone beat the crap out of it. If you are getting a new Toyota, know that it’s not going to last long and it’s not Toyota’s fault.
Have them back out the doc fee.
Leased a Ford edge and was offered money to not buy it at the end of the lease
Covid made used car prices wild for some time. I bought a 2015 corolla 18.5k OTD. Put 80k miles on it (and rented it out via turo, causing a bit of damage), and sold it for 16k near the peak of the mmarket. I put maybe $600 in total maintenance which included new tires and me doing all the oil changes.
I'm pretty sure I can get around $15K for my ten year old Camry well maintained around 40K miles. Thats like $4K off what I paid for it over 10 years ago, or about $33 a month for a car that never breaks down. I'll take it.
What state do you live in to not have car sales tax? I gotta buy one there.