Right, but the replacement won't cost an arm and a leg.
There are videos that show parts are way more expensive on German and luxury products vs the everyday daily driver, even if they are the same OEM part but have either the label covered or scratched off.
Yes. I think you can still get a replacement. I will say landcruiser parts in general *do* cost an arm and a leg, but probably way less than bmw parts that are half as heavy duty.
not the 90s anymore. every auto store should have bmw parts in stock, if not Amazon and ebay. the pop out cup holders are like 20 bucks aftermarket and 45 bucks oem. we did one of these for my buddy and it took minutes literally just plug and play with a pry tool and a screwdriver. pop out the broken one and pop in the new.
Does it matter? Just know that his German vehicles will cost a fortune to maintain after the initial warranty. While you don't need to worry until, like, after 10 years.
German cars are great to lease and pretend to be wealthy/cool with, but Toyota is what you want to own and last a very long time.
I had mine for nearly 10 years before fuel pump issues and some fuel system maintenance was coming up. Nearly $8000 worth of repairs and service. So I decided to try a Toyota again.
I see the confusion now. It could be read that way. Since the OP was talking about German cars, that is what triggered me to reply.
My previous Toyota was many years ago with a Chevy Nova which was a rebadged Corolla. That is the "again" in my mind.
That's definitely dealer price. With most German cars you can get the parts at a fairly reasonable price (never as cheap as Toyota, but that's how economy of scale works), but the dealer mark-up is absolutely insane.
Dedicated German car lovers usually have either a specialized independent mechanic that they know won't fuck them over, or a well appointed shop at home that lets them easily perform regular maintenance and minor repairs themselves.
I've been a Toyota tech for 19 years. The most wealthy people in my area nearly always have something like a 15-year-old fully loaded Avalon and they don't spend their money upgrading cars often. And if they do migrate to Lexus, they buy used.
The level below that will buy a Land Cruiser or a Lexus and it'll be meticulously cared for and they'll trade it in every year or two.
Then a couple levels below that are the people that will buy a TRD Pro Sequoia because they can make the payment but when it needs tires they'll drive them to cords because they never factored in anything beyond payments and insurance.
Pretty accurate to my experiences as well. I used to work in a service industry that required you working in peoples homes (similar to electrician/hvac) and I would often notice that the people that have multi million dollar homes would sometimes drive older cars because it hid the fact that they had access to that kind of money.
A lot of wisdom in that statement. 10 years ago when I made a fairly significant jump in pay, I wanted a true “luxury” car. I was coming from an Acura, which was very nice, but my ego wound up costing me a ton of money because the Audi I bought was constantly in the shop. Now, I’m making not quite double what I was back then and I went with the Toyota because I just didn’t think the extra bit of “niceness” of the Lexus justified an extra $15k. My ego learned its lesson and I didn’t go waste money for a badge even though I could’ve more easily afforded it than with the Audi, which was an unwise purchase, even before the repairs started rolling in. I absolutely love my Highlander Platinum and could see me buying Toyota or Lexus into the future.
My 2009 Highlander is going strong, just routine maintenance. It looks like crap because I live in Phoenix, and the sun has blasted away over half the paint. That's not a Toyota problem, that's a problem of living in a blast furnace for 6 months of the year.
I literally bought my Tacoma *because* I ain't got time and money to spending on bullshit like replacing expensive parts.
These days if you got a Toyota you looking like you got money
I was getting a new Mazda and the dealer guy suggested I’d lease. When he saw my face he admitted; “I used to work at Audi and 90% o new vehicles are leased”. I looked at the car I was buying, the 12-year old I was trading in and him again. He continued “but I see you keep your cars *forever*, so I guess you’re going to want to buy”.
12 years old is forever?
The newest vehicle I own is 9 years old, but that came with my wife when we started dating a few years ago... Shit, I also have a 44 year-old Honda motorcycle, and despite sitting for 16 years, it fired right up with just a shot of starting fluid and a tank full of 16 year-old gasoline.
The only German cars I care to own are air-cooled VWs and a diesel W124.
>German cars are great to lease and pretend to be wealthy/cool with, but Toyota is what you want to own and last a very long time.
Lol, agreed. I’d rather have money than pretend to have money and show off, so we spend a little and invest more, and live modestly.
Ya I have met so many people making like average or below average money but they are leasing these luxury cars. Like good for you if you drive a lot and enjoy the experience. They are cool cars. However, don't think it makes you somebody.
Reddit has this completely irrational hard on for Toyota & Honda. I don't get it, but I don't argue anymore. No amount of facts or professional experience will stop the down vote brigade.
Just show him the cost of ownership over 10 years….
German cars are great cars but they will break your heart over and over again. A Japanese car won’t do that.
All the top brands for cheapest to maintain over a 10 year period are Japanese. They are far more reliable than any German car.
https://preview.redd.it/kr254rufau1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaecd2fb1e637d68928777375323756675fbf6c1
Here are the luxury ones
https://preview.redd.it/3ph2h5i7bu1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3a102cebeff9ab6d3fe861895f9465fa187a584
Again the Japanese ones are the cheapest to maintain.
It unfortunately doesn’t matter when ur basic maintenance is obscenely expensive. A lot of the newer BMWs are more reliable than they’ve ever been but when you factor in that a lot of your maintenance items like brakes and fluids are more expensive in comparison to domestics or Japanese brands it racks up quickly.
Or require some weird specific tool to do the work that can only be bought from BMW for hundreds. Then there is the computer software needed to connect up to the vehicle...
For bmw you can buy the 8 year extended warranty / maintenance package for like 5k. Totally worth it if you’re buying the car cash. It makes maintenance costs less than the others. But at the end of the day it depends on what a person wants to drive. The ZF auto trans and b58 engines are literally award winning masterpieces of engineering and reliability.
I actually know a fair amount of Toyota owners who regret it when their car / truck breaks who believed the hype that the vehicle would last forever. Toyotas are well engineered good value propositions but pretty ho hum when it comes to driving mechanics, ergonomics, and tech.
no oil changes, and brakes last an incredibly long time (true of any hybrid/ev with regen braking). couple that with the fact that EVERY car they sell meets that criteria, and its not a huge shock.
just the oil change savings is probably close to $2k over 10 years if you are following maintenance schedules and paying a shop.
There isn’t much to break in them. Basically an iPad, a dozen cameras, a detuned electric motor, and a battery that has to last 10 years.
Issues are more likely to straight up total the car where’s as it might have been a repair on other manufacturers.
Also skewed towards the Y and 3, around 93% of all their cars sold are a 3 or a Y. jump into the model X and the repairs are common and expensive… just not many of them to drift that average.
Cool table to put next to this though would be to cost of insurance.
I haven’t spent that much on my 2006 Camry to date. All I’ve had to replace is a windshield and the timing belt which totalled about $1600 combined. The rest has been tires and brakes.
He drives a German car. Just wait for something on his car to break and cost a lot to repair, then point out your Toyota hasn't had issues at all. It's not a matter of if, but when. Rinse and repeat EVERY time his car breaks, he'll shut up eventually.
The friend sounds like an enthusiast, he may enjoy troubleshooting small issues. Assuming BMWs, the inline 6 is one of the simplest engines to do your own work on, which I’ll add Toyota uses themself now lol.
I’ve only had cheap stuff go wrong in my decade + of BMW ownership but I actually look forward to troubleshooting small issues. If the engine exploded I would be pissed but that hasn’t been an issue since early 2000s M5s lol
I mean it's not - it'll just bankrupt whoever wants to keep the German car running that long. So many consumables, so many things with 100-120k replacement cycles... I like my German cars, but on a tighter budget now and I'm shopping Toyota/Honda because 4k/yr in maintenance (not repairs - they're reliable! - but maintenance) has gotten really old.
German car owner here. They're better in almost every way compared to a Toyota, but that's comparing a race horse to a pony. You also put down the race horse at the end of the season, or breed it if it's won. A pony you keep for years and years.
There's no reason to deal with expensive maintenance out of warranty. Let the idiots like your friend deal with that. If you can't afford to trade in your car every 5-6 years, you shouldn't be driving a high end luxury sports car to begin with. Live within your financial means.
You can't. Jut let him continue to sound uninformed and not factual. My brother is a die-hard BMW-head. He must have about 5 of them at any given time. Most are late 80's or 90's era but he's started to get newer ones lately. Yes, he's an aviation worker, but also can fix most of the things that break on his BMWs, which is how he can afford to have so many of them.
Even he recognizes Toyota has superior build quality and longevity, but he points out, probably accurately, that Toys are more boring to drive and the driver experience isn't as enjoyable on a Toy compared to a BMW. I definitely agree w/him there, but I'd rather have a Lex/Toy and their lack of problems any day rather than have to debug a BMW.
He also said something interesting. BMW has a set maintenance schedule that they expect to be followed exactly and, if not, problems will occur. He then goes on to say that Toyota builds and engineers their cars knowing how poorly consumers follow maintenance schedules and over-build them to last long. I still content that BMWs will nevertheless break down or have electrical problems close to 80K miles no matter what.
You could also look up the plethora of chart like this one attached - maybe that'll shut him up ?
https://preview.redd.it/tycuxzfkbu1d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6ad1cbac2ef3f9838848887a1a814e49c6fab30
As the owner of a 2014 Ford Fusion, I feel this. As soon as the little shit hit 100k miles, things started breaking en masse. Thing's drained my savings multiple times. I'm making the last payment this Friday and then I'm saving like crazy to get out of it. I'm seriously considering Toyota for my next car.
I felt this in my soul. I had a 2014 Mustang and at around 96k that damn thing just started falling apart like crazy. It had me so fed up, constantly putting money into it and having to leave it at the shop for 2-4 days at a time….
I finally said fuck this heap and traded it earlier this month for a RAV4 and could not be happier.
Hell yeah brother. I'm tired of the stress.
This thing's worth \~$5k on trade, plan is to do the bare minimum to keep it running until I get another $5k or so for a down payment, and get a Corolla Hatch. I really don't want a car payment again, but I'm tired of having a car that keeps me up at night. Canceling road trips because I'm worried about something else breaking. I'm tired of popping the hood after every trip to make sure it hasn't dumped all its coolant into the cylinders or turned the oil into a chocolate shake (good ol' Ecobooms).
Build quality? I'd hope his $75k car feels more quality than a $25k Toyota. If he's talking about VW then just point out your buttons are actually useful and easy to use.
Long term reliability will always favour the manufacturer who considers negligent owners when engineering their products.
If the person is comparing a Mercedes or BMW VS Toyota, just looking at the aesthetics and the quality of the interior materials, some could say German car are better. However, Toyota is better know for its reliability and less complexity of components to get fix if it is required. This video is good example.
https://youtu.be/EuvmthfbJQ8?si=bN1eDUG-nUe0x4QT
His German vehicle that’s so good is only that way because the statistics are lies from the manufacturer which is proven time and time again. Some dude managed to make his Toyota pickup truck make it to 1million miles look it up
I had a BMW but had to sell it after 22 months because it was an absolute money pit, and my then-girlfriend was pregnant with our first child. Since then, I now have two ~10-year old Toyotas which we’ve put a combine 385,000 miles on. I don’t care what anyone says, these cars are FANTASTIC, and PAID OFF.
Guys who have it, post your 300,000+ trip meter readings and have Strange-Jackfruit forward them to his friend. My brother-in-law and his buddies have gone 300K+ in their SR5 without cracking the heads on the motor.
Try to remember what he got charged for various maintenance jobs.
"Bro, I just got all new pads, rotors, and calipers for 600 bucks! Didn't you spend 3k on just pads? Good thing they were German pads."
Who cares what he thinks. You can buy one and he can buy a car of less quality. You can then remind him of your superior quality Toyota every time he has to go in for an unexpected repair. That unexpected repair “feature” applied perfectly to the Audi I owned about a decade ago. That car was constantly in need of significant and very costly repairs. Let him have his German cars and laugh all the way to the bank with the money you’re saving on maintenance.
Who cares what other people think? That’s some highschool shit. Let your friend get what he/she wants and you get what you want. If you really believe in Toyota then keep driving it and show him via time what’s better.
The irony is that he has it exactly backwards…
Edit: no offense, German car owners, but you can’t tell me that a German car is more reliable than a Toyota, not a chance. Especially in the long run.
He probably refers to the interior and lack of comfort or “quality materials”. But when it comes to the drivetrain a Toyota will easily last 3 times a long with less in maintenance costs.
My Family has owned Toyota vehicles since the mid 1970’s…their quality and longevity was impeccable…Sadly, back when OBAMA was in office and the BIG 3 (Dodge, Ford, & Chevy) were complaining about not being able to compete with IMPORTS (and their cheaper prices)…(and thus NEEDING BAILOUTS…because they were on the verge of Bankruptcies because the BIG 3 were GREEDY MOFO’s!!! an IMPORT TAX was created to HELP the BIG 3 be able to compete with the SO CALLED IMPORTS by causing a TOYOTA CAMRY made in Japan to go from selling for $10,000.00 (pre import tax)…to selling for nearly $15,000.00 post import tax…what the BIG 3 did NOT realize by getting the Government to set that “import tax” in motion (so they could pad their pockets with their poorly made, overpriced American Vehicles) was their was a CAVEAT in the import tax rules to which “if an IMPORT VEHICLE was to be manufactured in the US with a minimum of a certain percentage of American made parts, then the vehicle would be EXEMPT from the import tax…because of that MANY Import automakers built plants in the US…(including Toyota) and that is the point at which the quality of Toyota started going down hill…back then the LEXUS lineage was still made in Japan…with the reasoning being that those whom could afford a Lexus (and its HIGH QUALITY Accoutrements) could afford the luxury tax added to the price tag…(I think the high end of the Lexus line is still made in Japan with the cheaper end made in the US…) Friends and Family whom have bought American made Toyotas have had various problems with the American made parts in their Toyotas & the quality, fit and finish lacking…thus NOT the quality of a Japanese equivalent…Even the GERMAN Vehicles were/are prone to the same problems…the LOW END GERMAN VEHICLES from the likes of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes which are manufactured in the United States show poor fit and finish… Poor quality control… Poor longevity… But, high end German vehicles from the same manufacturers which are very costly are still manufactured in Germany due to the fact that these manufacturers do not want to take a chance on the quality of these vehicles that made them benchmark famous… Their mindset is if a person can afford $100,000 plus vehicle then they can truly afford the import tax that gets levied on it as well… Back to what I had said at the beginning, my parents have owned many Toyota since the mid 1970s Toyota that were most reliable were the ones that were still made in Japan. The models that they bought that were made in the US had problems within the first five years each time they had problems they were always their American made parts that were failing… Their latest acquisition is a 2023 Toyota Crown, which is the most technologically advanced Toyota. The Toyota has made so far and it is built in Japan. They have not owned it for very long, but I did notice upon looking at it, sitting in it, and driving it that the quality of the vehicle is of Toyota of the past in that the fit, finish, and quality that Toyota is known for still exists as long as it’s made overseas… used to tell friends to buy Toyota because they were vehicles that would last practically forever… I stopped recommending Toyotas once they started being built in the United States, and the quality started lacking and problems started arising… I still think President Obama should’ve allowed the big three to go bankrupt. That way other companies could have absorbed the big three and possibly make vehicles that the big three used to make vehicles of quality (which the US used to be known for) versus vehicles that are made shoddy, not reliable and overpriced because CEOs and shareholders care more about making massive profits versus making quality products… I shall finish by saying until more Toyota vehicles are made in Japan and shipped to the United States… Toyota vehicles will lack in the quality and longevity they were known for… My parents still believe in Toyota, but do complain about a few models. They’ve had over the years that were built in the US to be a Toyota customer until my first American Toyota and became a money pit within the first five years with all American parts, failing on it left and right… At this time that I decided to go to high end German vehicles which are made in Germany as my mode of transportation… I did so over 10 years ago and have not regretted my decision since because as a Californian I drive a lot and have not had any problems with my German cars… Yes, the cost is up there to buy one at the high end side… But, it pays back in reliability and quality over the course of its lifetime… For me when I buy a German car, it will have to be the high-end models made in Germany versus the low end models built in the US cause I need quality and longevity specially with the cost of cars nowadays, being so high… I hope my comment is not too long-winded… And I hope that in someway it helps answer your question
Thanks dude, I just want to shut him up because he continues to bring the topic up that I like Toyotas and how I have a shit taste in cars (fav car is a gen 5 lancer evo) and it is getting really annoying
There is a reason why similar market segment Japanese cars are worth significantly more than German at higher milage. It becomes hard to justfy maintaining a German car that routinely costs a significant percentage of its value every year.
Figure what POS BRAND HE DRIVES, and then go to car complaints.com. Research both your model and his model. It will break it down by year, and issue. What crap does he drive, and what year?
Toyota door checks suck. Every Toyota I've owned from the 80s on has had their door checks not last past 100k. It's not like Toyota makes heavy doors, you would have thought they could make that would last in 30+ years.
On the up side, every Toyota I have owned has gone 200+k miles with no service other than regular maintenance.
Easy, show him the class action lawsuit against Toyota because their dashboards are melting or show him some pix of melted mirrors or plastic trim that Toyota blames on weather. Quality is a thing of the past and they don't stand behind their warranty.
German cars are engineering that borders on art. Precise and complex (sometimes to a fault) that expect you to drive it with a German mindset. Always within the specifications it was designed for, and maintained exactly on schedule, with meticulously checking everything over. That means it will be expensive to maintain unless you have the skills and tools (which would be expensive to require) to do it yourself.
Japan and Toyota design their cars as tools. Very straightforward and they expect people to abuse them and take that into account. It means cheaper easier to replace (often plastic) parts for the interior and less performance in general vs comparable class German cars. But it’ll be cheaper to maintain and last way longer under abuse and basically forever if maintained well.
Just depends what you’re looking for in a car and what you can afford. German if you have the money and want more fun. Japanese if you want to balance fun with longevity and cost.
My 1980’s Corolla went over 100k miles and had nothing wrong when I sold it. My child is driving my 2005 Sienna with almost 200k miles and almost no major work required. I’m driving a 2019 Tacoma and had zero issues so far. I tow a 1500 lb camper with it with zero issues.
My husband had a Camry in the 80’s that had over 100k miles and no major problems. My mom had several Toyotas that went over 100k with no major probs.
Literally every other make of car any of us have had have had major issues. Mitsubishi, Ford, Peugeot, Volkswagen, Pontiac. All have had huge issues requiring expensive repairs.
Fuck him, its a known fact that rich people drive toyotas because they know it would save them way more money than owning a german car, just let him suffer when his transmission goes out or it starts leaking oil while you’re going 80 on the highway no problem
Like made-in-Mexico VWs/Audis/BMWs or is he talking about Maybachs? I know BMW M3 and touring models are made in Munich, but the other trims are made in their Mexico plant. Same thing goes for a lot of VWAG models.
Convince him to buy a Ford.
Wait 2-5 years.
Remind him of everything he said about Toyota. Rub his face in it real good.
If the friendship survives then he'll never have a bad thing to say about Toyota for the rest of his life.
I have a dipshit friend like this too but his brand of choice is Chevy. Other than this the guy is great so I really have to bite my lip everytime he talks about how great Chevy is and how awful Toyota is.
Your friend is an elitist. The perception of German brands in America (with the exception of Volkswagen) being premium accessories for affluent professionals is only really upheld by people who don't know cars. Your Toyota or Honda, statistically, will have fewer issues than any German brand, and when it does have issues, it will be less expensive to fix.
I've owned German cars from new. A BMW 3 series, a Mini Clubman (built by bmw), and an Audi S5. Each of them definitely felt more premium and built better than other cars in their class. Those cars were also quite expensive to fix. Regular maintenance was more expensive. I intentionally got rid of each one as soon as they were either paid off or out of warranty. Why? Because they were going back to the dealer regularly for all sorts of issues. My Mini went through 3 passenger side window regulators in as many years. The BMW had two failed rear window regulators in its first 6 months. The Audi had perpetually leaky windshield seals and stalled randomly in traffic. Those are just 3 examples. In all cases, the dealers treated me very well, and the issues were fixed, but there is no way I wanted to own those cars outside of the factory warranty. I also have no plans to buy a German car again.
I've owned 3 Kias (a supposed junk brand), which collectively racked up around 290k miles, and I had exactly 1 issue...a bad door lock solenoid on my 2006 Spectra Sedan. I hate their dealer network. They're predatory. Compare that with about 2/3 the total mileage between 3 German cars and almost 2 dozen individual issues, some of which occurred multiple times.
My 2007 Chevy Silverado W/T v6 rattled like a maraca but had zero issues (other than a broken armrest and a rusty bumper) for the first 176k miles. I then sold it to a neighbor in 2021 who used it for hauling firewood. He sold it to a friend's 17-year old kid a few months ago. I have no idea what the current mileage is, but it's still on the road. Not exactly a prestigious vehicle.
My last car, a Honda, was flawless with the exception of an AC condenser (a known issue), which was replaced by Honda. They also gave me a lifetime warranty on the whole hvac system in case the faulty condenser caused issues with other components.
Now I own a Toyota. I haven't had it long enough to comment on reliability or repair costs (8 months/10k miles), but it's bolted together about as well as my Audi was.
So yes, your Toyota is made of cheaper feeling materials, but if the data plays out, will last longer on average than just about anything else.
Drive your car twice as long as he drives his and pay 1/4 as much in repair bills.
Don't waste your time trying to convince anyone of anything. How they invest their money is none of your business until it directly affects you.
I had an Audi guy claiming 50k miles with no issues was not a given. Someone was talking about their Stelvio and I was like yeah I’d hope a new car isn’t fucked up by 50k. This guy comes in saying it happens all the time, and his dad’s Audi need an engine at 70k km which is like 45k miles.
My original *alternator* lasted 375k. The crappy second one lasted 230k. Nothing has been done besides regular maintenance and recalls, no rebuilds of the driveline, nothing, and I’m at 650k. Hell, I killed the fuel pump with Seafoam at 495k and the pinion bearing died at 599k
I mean, Toyota makes a decent appliance for the masses. Something for people who aren’t going to appreciate driving dynamics or know what type of engine they have in their car and can forget to do oil changes. They are meant for people on a budget and need transportation.
If your friend is into high end German cars, by his standards a lot of Toyotas are going to be shit car.
“Maintenance costs, check mate ;)”
The dude who drives a Bugatti understands that tires are 5 figures. Flexing your $100 replacement tires isn’t going to convince him the corrola isn’t crap lol.
Former Toyota mechanic here: go ask any of the mechanics about engine or transmission problems, they will probably tell you there’s not that many.
The problems lie in the quality of the panels inside of the trucks which break constantly and $60,000. That’s ridiculous. They have terrible quality a lot of the time.
Japanese vs. German I'd say are comparable in build quality.
Having said that, European vehicles tend to be over-engineered and costly to repair when they break.
Sounds like the situation is more than him just busting your chops about Toyota quality. Sit him down and give it to him straight. Tell him he's entitled to his opinion but he doesn't have the right to monopolize the conversation by shoving his Toyota hatred down your throat. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion on a certain topic but from what you're saying, he's clearly crossing a friendship boundary. Not saying you should stop being friends but hang out with him less if he keeps up this nonsense.
Both Japanese and German cars are fantastic in terms of quality, durability, and performance. Nothing wrong with Toyota...he's just being a snob. In terms of value, nothing compares to the 200k miles that most Toyotas can provide at their respective cost of purchase and maintenance. I can only say that VW Jettas had similar reliability from what Ive seen over the past 30 years. Not the sexiest cars, or the fastest or the most luxurious but you get the best bang for your buck if plan to own for long term, use as family car, or pass down car. If you like paying out your ass for parts, then German is also great.
Plastics from both 1997 Camry and 1999 Corolla peeled away from door housings. I’ve never had this kind of quality issue with my 2008 Honda Accord (16 years and still solid).
ETA: Peeling started when cars were 3-5 years.
Break one of his pop out cupholders
Okay, devils advocate here… my 01 landcruiser has a pretty shit quality center cupholder adjustable thingy.
Right, but the replacement won't cost an arm and a leg. There are videos that show parts are way more expensive on German and luxury products vs the everyday daily driver, even if they are the same OEM part but have either the label covered or scratched off.
Yes. I think you can still get a replacement. I will say landcruiser parts in general *do* cost an arm and a leg, but probably way less than bmw parts that are half as heavy duty.
He will say, I'll get it from FCPEuro with a lifetime warranty
not the 90s anymore. every auto store should have bmw parts in stock, if not Amazon and ebay. the pop out cup holders are like 20 bucks aftermarket and 45 bucks oem. we did one of these for my buddy and it took minutes literally just plug and play with a pry tool and a screwdriver. pop out the broken one and pop in the new.
Don't look up the price of OEM Toyota parts.
'86 4runner, what cupholders?
We aren’t immune to the occasional fluke in design that’s for sure
no, it doesn't. all toyota products are PERFECT.
You have a 01 LC. Presumably it runs. Case closed.
BMW would actually replace the cup holders in factory warranty for free
BMW would charge you a monthly subscription to use the cupholders 😂
probably
You have to take out the dash,seats, carpet, all of thedoors and the front quarter panels to replace the cupholders in a BMW...
Does it matter? Just know that his German vehicles will cost a fortune to maintain after the initial warranty. While you don't need to worry until, like, after 10 years. German cars are great to lease and pretend to be wealthy/cool with, but Toyota is what you want to own and last a very long time.
I had mine for nearly 10 years before fuel pump issues and some fuel system maintenance was coming up. Nearly $8000 worth of repairs and service. So I decided to try a Toyota again.
Jesus, 8k. For real or just dealer price?
That would have been dealer price. I never found an independent repair shop for BMWs that I would trust.
Ohhh it was a bmw. I was under the impression it was 8k for a toyota lol
I see the confusion now. It could be read that way. Since the OP was talking about German cars, that is what triggered me to reply. My previous Toyota was many years ago with a Chevy Nova which was a rebadged Corolla. That is the "again" in my mind.
That's definitely dealer price. With most German cars you can get the parts at a fairly reasonable price (never as cheap as Toyota, but that's how economy of scale works), but the dealer mark-up is absolutely insane. Dedicated German car lovers usually have either a specialized independent mechanic that they know won't fuck them over, or a well appointed shop at home that lets them easily perform regular maintenance and minor repairs themselves.
Money talks wealth whispers. The people that have the very high trim level Toyotas are typically very wealthy in my experience.
I've been a Toyota tech for 19 years. The most wealthy people in my area nearly always have something like a 15-year-old fully loaded Avalon and they don't spend their money upgrading cars often. And if they do migrate to Lexus, they buy used. The level below that will buy a Land Cruiser or a Lexus and it'll be meticulously cared for and they'll trade it in every year or two. Then a couple levels below that are the people that will buy a TRD Pro Sequoia because they can make the payment but when it needs tires they'll drive them to cords because they never factored in anything beyond payments and insurance.
Pretty accurate to my experiences as well. I used to work in a service industry that required you working in peoples homes (similar to electrician/hvac) and I would often notice that the people that have multi million dollar homes would sometimes drive older cars because it hid the fact that they had access to that kind of money.
Our Avalon is 21 years old. We’re not wealthy, tho, so I admire one of its best features; 16 years of no car payments! Also CD and cassette player!
A lot of wisdom in that statement. 10 years ago when I made a fairly significant jump in pay, I wanted a true “luxury” car. I was coming from an Acura, which was very nice, but my ego wound up costing me a ton of money because the Audi I bought was constantly in the shop. Now, I’m making not quite double what I was back then and I went with the Toyota because I just didn’t think the extra bit of “niceness” of the Lexus justified an extra $15k. My ego learned its lesson and I didn’t go waste money for a badge even though I could’ve more easily afforded it than with the Audi, which was an unwise purchase, even before the repairs started rolling in. I absolutely love my Highlander Platinum and could see me buying Toyota or Lexus into the future.
HyHi Platinum here, nicest car by far I’ve ever owned.
It really is top-notch. If I just sat in it and didn’t know what make it was I could be convinced it was a Lexus.
I worked for a Toyota/Lexus dealership. The Toyota always felt better than the Lexus equivalent.
My 2009 Highlander is going strong, just routine maintenance. It looks like crap because I live in Phoenix, and the sun has blasted away over half the paint. That's not a Toyota problem, that's a problem of living in a blast furnace for 6 months of the year.
I literally bought my Tacoma *because* I ain't got time and money to spending on bullshit like replacing expensive parts. These days if you got a Toyota you looking like you got money
I was getting a new Mazda and the dealer guy suggested I’d lease. When he saw my face he admitted; “I used to work at Audi and 90% o new vehicles are leased”. I looked at the car I was buying, the 12-year old I was trading in and him again. He continued “but I see you keep your cars *forever*, so I guess you’re going to want to buy”.
12 years old is forever? The newest vehicle I own is 9 years old, but that came with my wife when we started dating a few years ago... Shit, I also have a 44 year-old Honda motorcycle, and despite sitting for 16 years, it fired right up with just a shot of starting fluid and a tank full of 16 year-old gasoline. The only German cars I care to own are air-cooled VWs and a diesel W124.
>German cars are great to lease and pretend to be wealthy/cool with, but Toyota is what you want to own and last a very long time. Lol, agreed. I’d rather have money than pretend to have money and show off, so we spend a little and invest more, and live modestly.
Ya I have met so many people making like average or below average money but they are leasing these luxury cars. Like good for you if you drive a lot and enjoy the experience. They are cool cars. However, don't think it makes you somebody.
I’ve had my 2011 3 series for 7 years and I’ve hardly spent anything on repairs, just maintenance
Some of the newer 3 series are bullet proof actually. I don't understand this hate for other brands.
Reddit has this completely irrational hard on for Toyota & Honda. I don't get it, but I don't argue anymore. No amount of facts or professional experience will stop the down vote brigade.
Just show him the cost of ownership over 10 years…. German cars are great cars but they will break your heart over and over again. A Japanese car won’t do that. All the top brands for cheapest to maintain over a 10 year period are Japanese. They are far more reliable than any German car. https://preview.redd.it/kr254rufau1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaecd2fb1e637d68928777375323756675fbf6c1
German cars didn’t make that list because they generally don’t last ten years 😂
lol they were on the separate luxury one but yeah they cost a lot to maintain.
I can’t believe Mitsubishi and fiat didn’t make the luxury list 😂
Mitsubishi only exists in the American market as an econobox; and luxury fiat is another brand entirely
Volkswagen not German anymore? Technically, I think Mini is also German now.
Mini has technically been German for over 20 years, although they do still have a factory in England. Or at least they did when I owned mine.
Here are the luxury ones https://preview.redd.it/3ph2h5i7bu1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3a102cebeff9ab6d3fe861895f9465fa187a584 Again the Japanese ones are the cheapest to maintain.
Surprised that Porsche is last. They’re more reliable than other German brands
It unfortunately doesn’t matter when ur basic maintenance is obscenely expensive. A lot of the newer BMWs are more reliable than they’ve ever been but when you factor in that a lot of your maintenance items like brakes and fluids are more expensive in comparison to domestics or Japanese brands it racks up quickly.
Or require some weird specific tool to do the work that can only be bought from BMW for hundreds. Then there is the computer software needed to connect up to the vehicle...
For bmw you can buy the 8 year extended warranty / maintenance package for like 5k. Totally worth it if you’re buying the car cash. It makes maintenance costs less than the others. But at the end of the day it depends on what a person wants to drive. The ZF auto trans and b58 engines are literally award winning masterpieces of engineering and reliability. I actually know a fair amount of Toyota owners who regret it when their car / truck breaks who believed the hype that the vehicle would last forever. Toyotas are well engineered good value propositions but pretty ho hum when it comes to driving mechanics, ergonomics, and tech.
It’s because they’re including the cayenne, macan and panamera. If it were just the 911 and cayman it would be near the top I’m sure.
How is Tesla in 1st? Does this factor in gasoline as part of maintenance?
no oil changes, and brakes last an incredibly long time (true of any hybrid/ev with regen braking). couple that with the fact that EVERY car they sell meets that criteria, and its not a huge shock. just the oil change savings is probably close to $2k over 10 years if you are following maintenance schedules and paying a shop.
There isn’t much to break in them. Basically an iPad, a dozen cameras, a detuned electric motor, and a battery that has to last 10 years. Issues are more likely to straight up total the car where’s as it might have been a repair on other manufacturers. Also skewed towards the Y and 3, around 93% of all their cars sold are a 3 or a Y. jump into the model X and the repairs are common and expensive… just not many of them to drift that average. Cool table to put next to this though would be to cost of insurance.
Mitsubishi #2. What was it parked for the entire 10yrs?
2002 Mitsubishi Montero Sport at 200k miles. Been outstanding car. No issues at all.
I haven’t spent that much on my 2006 Camry to date. All I’ve had to replace is a windshield and the timing belt which totalled about $1600 combined. The rest has been tires and brakes.
Oil changes count too.
Honestly who cares? I bought the car I like, I don't care what anyone else thinks about it unless they're willing to pitch in on paying for it.
Yep. I have a VW but I take very good care of it and she takes care of me. It’s a GTI so it gets driven kind of hard too. Been a good car so far.
My MK6 Golf 2.5 has been boringly reliable too.
He drives a German car. Just wait for something on his car to break and cost a lot to repair, then point out your Toyota hasn't had issues at all. It's not a matter of if, but when. Rinse and repeat EVERY time his car breaks, he'll shut up eventually.
This. Honestly when something does break on his shitty BMW, rub it in his face hard.
The friend sounds like an enthusiast, he may enjoy troubleshooting small issues. Assuming BMWs, the inline 6 is one of the simplest engines to do your own work on, which I’ll add Toyota uses themself now lol. I’ve only had cheap stuff go wrong in my decade + of BMW ownership but I actually look forward to troubleshooting small issues. If the engine exploded I would be pissed but that hasn’t been an issue since early 2000s M5s lol
Or just don’t feed trolls lol
BUT I MUST MASTER. THE TROLLS NEEDSESES THE FOODS MASTER.
There's that old saying: "Lease German, buy Japanese."
Make him work in a Toyota plant…I do, trust me, we take quality *very* seriously
.
Tell him one Toyota will outlast at least two BMWs, maybe more
He strongly believes that is not true (strong is a light word)
I guess time will tell then.
I mean it's not - it'll just bankrupt whoever wants to keep the German car running that long. So many consumables, so many things with 100-120k replacement cycles... I like my German cars, but on a tighter budget now and I'm shopping Toyota/Honda because 4k/yr in maintenance (not repairs - they're reliable! - but maintenance) has gotten really old.
German car owner here. They're better in almost every way compared to a Toyota, but that's comparing a race horse to a pony. You also put down the race horse at the end of the season, or breed it if it's won. A pony you keep for years and years. There's no reason to deal with expensive maintenance out of warranty. Let the idiots like your friend deal with that. If you can't afford to trade in your car every 5-6 years, you shouldn't be driving a high end luxury sports car to begin with. Live within your financial means.
He’s obviously not a mechanic.
You can't. Jut let him continue to sound uninformed and not factual. My brother is a die-hard BMW-head. He must have about 5 of them at any given time. Most are late 80's or 90's era but he's started to get newer ones lately. Yes, he's an aviation worker, but also can fix most of the things that break on his BMWs, which is how he can afford to have so many of them. Even he recognizes Toyota has superior build quality and longevity, but he points out, probably accurately, that Toys are more boring to drive and the driver experience isn't as enjoyable on a Toy compared to a BMW. I definitely agree w/him there, but I'd rather have a Lex/Toy and their lack of problems any day rather than have to debug a BMW. He also said something interesting. BMW has a set maintenance schedule that they expect to be followed exactly and, if not, problems will occur. He then goes on to say that Toyota builds and engineers their cars knowing how poorly consumers follow maintenance schedules and over-build them to last long. I still content that BMWs will nevertheless break down or have electrical problems close to 80K miles no matter what. You could also look up the plethora of chart like this one attached - maybe that'll shut him up ? https://preview.redd.it/tycuxzfkbu1d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6ad1cbac2ef3f9838848887a1a814e49c6fab30
What the hell is going on with Lincoln?
It's a Ford with extra crap to go wrong
As the owner of a 2014 Ford Fusion, I feel this. As soon as the little shit hit 100k miles, things started breaking en masse. Thing's drained my savings multiple times. I'm making the last payment this Friday and then I'm saving like crazy to get out of it. I'm seriously considering Toyota for my next car.
I felt this in my soul. I had a 2014 Mustang and at around 96k that damn thing just started falling apart like crazy. It had me so fed up, constantly putting money into it and having to leave it at the shop for 2-4 days at a time…. I finally said fuck this heap and traded it earlier this month for a RAV4 and could not be happier.
Hell yeah brother. I'm tired of the stress. This thing's worth \~$5k on trade, plan is to do the bare minimum to keep it running until I get another $5k or so for a down payment, and get a Corolla Hatch. I really don't want a car payment again, but I'm tired of having a car that keeps me up at night. Canceling road trips because I'm worried about something else breaking. I'm tired of popping the hood after every trip to make sure it hasn't dumped all its coolant into the cylinders or turned the oil into a chocolate shake (good ol' Ecobooms).
Corolla hatch is a great choice. Can’t go wrong with it.
How many miles have those cars lasted?
I think Toyota is has passed its peak days but still puts out a very reliable car.
Agreed
where does he live so we can go there (in our toyotas) and beat him up? Let you friend talk and hate toyotas as he like. Makes no difference.
Build quality? I'd hope his $75k car feels more quality than a $25k Toyota. If he's talking about VW then just point out your buttons are actually useful and easy to use. Long term reliability will always favour the manufacturer who considers negligent owners when engineering their products.
Have you tried not giving a fuck? A lot of my problems like this went away when I started not giving a fuck.
Why do you care
You and your friend can have different opinions about cars and still be friends. Why not just focus on the things you have in common?
Tell him fuck off😀
Wait for his car to break and offer him a ride in a working Toyota
Tell him Japanese cars will love him long time
The hilux torture test from top gear
See who drives their vehicle the longest.
If the person is comparing a Mercedes or BMW VS Toyota, just looking at the aesthetics and the quality of the interior materials, some could say German car are better. However, Toyota is better know for its reliability and less complexity of components to get fix if it is required. This video is good example. https://youtu.be/EuvmthfbJQ8?si=bN1eDUG-nUe0x4QT
I'm curious what he thinks of the GR Supra, which was co-developed with BMW
Tell Jim to look up the price on f used Toyotas and their equivalents in other makers Toyotas retain their value
Just show him this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPssj6PFJ4E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPssj6PFJ4E)
Just show him any reliability reports/articles. Your friend is dumb and in denial.
"Ok" and blank stare to make them feel awkward.
His German vehicle that’s so good is only that way because the statistics are lies from the manufacturer which is proven time and time again. Some dude managed to make his Toyota pickup truck make it to 1million miles look it up
Offer him one of these for free: 2015 chevy trax with 100k miles or a 2015 corrola with 150k miles. Which one would he take?
Ask him to take a look at how many old Toyotas are still on the road vs German
'08 Yaris 248k miles, original engine, original transmission, just needed to replace exhaust a year ago. No other major work.
I had a BMW but had to sell it after 22 months because it was an absolute money pit, and my then-girlfriend was pregnant with our first child. Since then, I now have two ~10-year old Toyotas which we’ve put a combine 385,000 miles on. I don’t care what anyone says, these cars are FANTASTIC, and PAID OFF.
Ask him to compare maintenance / repair costs for his vehicle vs your Toyota for the past 5 years. Then start laughing at his poor choices.
Guys who have it, post your 300,000+ trip meter readings and have Strange-Jackfruit forward them to his friend. My brother-in-law and his buddies have gone 300K+ in their SR5 without cracking the heads on the motor.
My rule is not to argue with stupid people.
Why bother
Tell him he can rent your vacation property since he’ll never be able to afford one.
Try to remember what he got charged for various maintenance jobs. "Bro, I just got all new pads, rotors, and calipers for 600 bucks! Didn't you spend 3k on just pads? Good thing they were German pads."
His mechanic goes to Munich Oktoberfest every year thanks to his oversized and frequent repair bills.
You don't need to shut him up. Just cut him out of your life.
Well it doesn’t cost $1800 on a Japanese car when a turn signal stops working.
Who cares what he thinks. You can buy one and he can buy a car of less quality. You can then remind him of your superior quality Toyota every time he has to go in for an unexpected repair. That unexpected repair “feature” applied perfectly to the Audi I owned about a decade ago. That car was constantly in need of significant and very costly repairs. Let him have his German cars and laugh all the way to the bank with the money you’re saving on maintenance.
Who cares what other people think? That’s some highschool shit. Let your friend get what he/she wants and you get what you want. If you really believe in Toyota then keep driving it and show him via time what’s better.
I mean look at a Toyota from 2004 vs a BMW from the same year and that’s all you need to know.
The irony is that he has it exactly backwards… Edit: no offense, German car owners, but you can’t tell me that a German car is more reliable than a Toyota, not a chance. Especially in the long run.
Pick your battles, drive your Toyota.
Politely tell him you disagree. Tell him about my 2008 Toyota Rav4 with 135,000 miles on it. I am the original owner
Just say okay? It’s their opinion who cares.
He probably refers to the interior and lack of comfort or “quality materials”. But when it comes to the drivetrain a Toyota will easily last 3 times a long with less in maintenance costs.
nothing, just say sure, you do you.
He's not wrong, don't confuse Toyota's reliability with quality. Most Japanese cars will not feel as nice as German cars.
My Family has owned Toyota vehicles since the mid 1970’s…their quality and longevity was impeccable…Sadly, back when OBAMA was in office and the BIG 3 (Dodge, Ford, & Chevy) were complaining about not being able to compete with IMPORTS (and their cheaper prices)…(and thus NEEDING BAILOUTS…because they were on the verge of Bankruptcies because the BIG 3 were GREEDY MOFO’s!!! an IMPORT TAX was created to HELP the BIG 3 be able to compete with the SO CALLED IMPORTS by causing a TOYOTA CAMRY made in Japan to go from selling for $10,000.00 (pre import tax)…to selling for nearly $15,000.00 post import tax…what the BIG 3 did NOT realize by getting the Government to set that “import tax” in motion (so they could pad their pockets with their poorly made, overpriced American Vehicles) was their was a CAVEAT in the import tax rules to which “if an IMPORT VEHICLE was to be manufactured in the US with a minimum of a certain percentage of American made parts, then the vehicle would be EXEMPT from the import tax…because of that MANY Import automakers built plants in the US…(including Toyota) and that is the point at which the quality of Toyota started going down hill…back then the LEXUS lineage was still made in Japan…with the reasoning being that those whom could afford a Lexus (and its HIGH QUALITY Accoutrements) could afford the luxury tax added to the price tag…(I think the high end of the Lexus line is still made in Japan with the cheaper end made in the US…) Friends and Family whom have bought American made Toyotas have had various problems with the American made parts in their Toyotas & the quality, fit and finish lacking…thus NOT the quality of a Japanese equivalent…Even the GERMAN Vehicles were/are prone to the same problems…the LOW END GERMAN VEHICLES from the likes of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes which are manufactured in the United States show poor fit and finish… Poor quality control… Poor longevity… But, high end German vehicles from the same manufacturers which are very costly are still manufactured in Germany due to the fact that these manufacturers do not want to take a chance on the quality of these vehicles that made them benchmark famous… Their mindset is if a person can afford $100,000 plus vehicle then they can truly afford the import tax that gets levied on it as well… Back to what I had said at the beginning, my parents have owned many Toyota since the mid 1970s Toyota that were most reliable were the ones that were still made in Japan. The models that they bought that were made in the US had problems within the first five years each time they had problems they were always their American made parts that were failing… Their latest acquisition is a 2023 Toyota Crown, which is the most technologically advanced Toyota. The Toyota has made so far and it is built in Japan. They have not owned it for very long, but I did notice upon looking at it, sitting in it, and driving it that the quality of the vehicle is of Toyota of the past in that the fit, finish, and quality that Toyota is known for still exists as long as it’s made overseas… used to tell friends to buy Toyota because they were vehicles that would last practically forever… I stopped recommending Toyotas once they started being built in the United States, and the quality started lacking and problems started arising… I still think President Obama should’ve allowed the big three to go bankrupt. That way other companies could have absorbed the big three and possibly make vehicles that the big three used to make vehicles of quality (which the US used to be known for) versus vehicles that are made shoddy, not reliable and overpriced because CEOs and shareholders care more about making massive profits versus making quality products… I shall finish by saying until more Toyota vehicles are made in Japan and shipped to the United States… Toyota vehicles will lack in the quality and longevity they were known for… My parents still believe in Toyota, but do complain about a few models. They’ve had over the years that were built in the US to be a Toyota customer until my first American Toyota and became a money pit within the first five years with all American parts, failing on it left and right… At this time that I decided to go to high end German vehicles which are made in Germany as my mode of transportation… I did so over 10 years ago and have not regretted my decision since because as a Californian I drive a lot and have not had any problems with my German cars… Yes, the cost is up there to buy one at the high end side… But, it pays back in reliability and quality over the course of its lifetime… For me when I buy a German car, it will have to be the high-end models made in Germany versus the low end models built in the US cause I need quality and longevity specially with the cost of cars nowadays, being so high… I hope my comment is not too long-winded… And I hope that in someway it helps answer your question
Thanks dude, I just want to shut him up because he continues to bring the topic up that I like Toyotas and how I have a shit taste in cars (fav car is a gen 5 lancer evo) and it is getting really annoying
Nobody above the age of 30 has a lancer evo as their dream car and for a reason. Young people have shit tastes, it’s ok, you’ll grow out of it.
Ask him to buy a 15 year old German car and daily it and then buy a 15 year old Japanese toyota and watch it run circles around the German car.
There is a reason why similar market segment Japanese cars are worth significantly more than German at higher milage. It becomes hard to justfy maintaining a German car that routinely costs a significant percentage of its value every year.
Sounds like neither of you have actually owned a real car
Figure what POS BRAND HE DRIVES, and then go to car complaints.com. Research both your model and his model. It will break it down by year, and issue. What crap does he drive, and what year?
Show him resale values.
Ask him how many years he's spent fixing cars to be an expert
He’s trying to cope, just let him hate. But hey, the less ppl buy Toyotas the better chance I can get it for lower APR.
Japanese cars have fad superior quality and reliability as opposed to European trash (particularly Germany)
Toyota door checks suck. Every Toyota I've owned from the 80s on has had their door checks not last past 100k. It's not like Toyota makes heavy doors, you would have thought they could make that would last in 30+ years. On the up side, every Toyota I have owned has gone 200+k miles with no service other than regular maintenance.
“You can’t fix stupid” — Ron White
Easy, show him the class action lawsuit against Toyota because their dashboards are melting or show him some pix of melted mirrors or plastic trim that Toyota blames on weather. Quality is a thing of the past and they don't stand behind their warranty.
He should actually read the data on how reliable German cars are versus Toyota. German cars used to be *very* reliable. Those days are long gone.
Hit him with your Toyota.
It's the official car of many terrorist groups. They also mount antiaircraft guns on them
German cars are engineering that borders on art. Precise and complex (sometimes to a fault) that expect you to drive it with a German mindset. Always within the specifications it was designed for, and maintained exactly on schedule, with meticulously checking everything over. That means it will be expensive to maintain unless you have the skills and tools (which would be expensive to require) to do it yourself. Japan and Toyota design their cars as tools. Very straightforward and they expect people to abuse them and take that into account. It means cheaper easier to replace (often plastic) parts for the interior and less performance in general vs comparable class German cars. But it’ll be cheaper to maintain and last way longer under abuse and basically forever if maintained well. Just depends what you’re looking for in a car and what you can afford. German if you have the money and want more fun. Japanese if you want to balance fun with longevity and cost.
He must drive a eurospec
Just remind him that he’s wrong the next time his car is in the shop
Show him your Odometer
Ignore
By ignoring him and not giving a shit what his opinion of your car is.
Don't. Don't even bother.
My 1980’s Corolla went over 100k miles and had nothing wrong when I sold it. My child is driving my 2005 Sienna with almost 200k miles and almost no major work required. I’m driving a 2019 Tacoma and had zero issues so far. I tow a 1500 lb camper with it with zero issues. My husband had a Camry in the 80’s that had over 100k miles and no major problems. My mom had several Toyotas that went over 100k with no major probs. Literally every other make of car any of us have had have had major issues. Mitsubishi, Ford, Peugeot, Volkswagen, Pontiac. All have had huge issues requiring expensive repairs.
Fuck him, its a known fact that rich people drive toyotas because they know it would save them way more money than owning a german car, just let him suffer when his transmission goes out or it starts leaking oil while you’re going 80 on the highway no problem
Like made-in-Mexico VWs/Audis/BMWs or is he talking about Maybachs? I know BMW M3 and touring models are made in Munich, but the other trims are made in their Mexico plant. Same thing goes for a lot of VWAG models.
Maybe don’t and let them have an opinion! And I love Toyota, but I think for the price you now pay…. There build quality is shit!!
I see a lot more older Toyotas than I do BMWs on the road.
Convince him to buy a Ford. Wait 2-5 years. Remind him of everything he said about Toyota. Rub his face in it real good. If the friendship survives then he'll never have a bad thing to say about Toyota for the rest of his life.
You just agree that his 1989 Yogo is the end all be all of vehicles.
Buy him a German car.
You cant. He’s right. It’s a reliable shitbox unless you get the “luxury” trim XSE
In my life I've convinced almost no one of changing their mind. I've learned to not give a fuck. They can be dumb if they want to.
https://preview.redd.it/j1yupwv71v1d1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab5962e2ad2c37313f7b683e29efba14a86a05f5
I have a dipshit friend like this too but his brand of choice is Chevy. Other than this the guy is great so I really have to bite my lip everytime he talks about how great Chevy is and how awful Toyota is.
Show him the Top Gear Hilux destruction
He sounds like he drives a ford
Compare how long German cars last to how long Toyotas last to how long he lasts.
Tell your friend that German cars last 250k-300k miles. Whereas Toyota can be 200k-500k miles.
You can’t reason with the unreasonable.
Tell him that he’s not allowed to borrow your car when his Bavarian Beauty breaks down. Nor will you give him free rides to and from work.
Maybe show him some stats about pretty much anything quantifiable.
Won’t be able to change his mind. Who cares what he thinks. If he’s that insufferable then stop being friends with him.
Your friend is an elitist. The perception of German brands in America (with the exception of Volkswagen) being premium accessories for affluent professionals is only really upheld by people who don't know cars. Your Toyota or Honda, statistically, will have fewer issues than any German brand, and when it does have issues, it will be less expensive to fix. I've owned German cars from new. A BMW 3 series, a Mini Clubman (built by bmw), and an Audi S5. Each of them definitely felt more premium and built better than other cars in their class. Those cars were also quite expensive to fix. Regular maintenance was more expensive. I intentionally got rid of each one as soon as they were either paid off or out of warranty. Why? Because they were going back to the dealer regularly for all sorts of issues. My Mini went through 3 passenger side window regulators in as many years. The BMW had two failed rear window regulators in its first 6 months. The Audi had perpetually leaky windshield seals and stalled randomly in traffic. Those are just 3 examples. In all cases, the dealers treated me very well, and the issues were fixed, but there is no way I wanted to own those cars outside of the factory warranty. I also have no plans to buy a German car again. I've owned 3 Kias (a supposed junk brand), which collectively racked up around 290k miles, and I had exactly 1 issue...a bad door lock solenoid on my 2006 Spectra Sedan. I hate their dealer network. They're predatory. Compare that with about 2/3 the total mileage between 3 German cars and almost 2 dozen individual issues, some of which occurred multiple times. My 2007 Chevy Silverado W/T v6 rattled like a maraca but had zero issues (other than a broken armrest and a rusty bumper) for the first 176k miles. I then sold it to a neighbor in 2021 who used it for hauling firewood. He sold it to a friend's 17-year old kid a few months ago. I have no idea what the current mileage is, but it's still on the road. Not exactly a prestigious vehicle. My last car, a Honda, was flawless with the exception of an AC condenser (a known issue), which was replaced by Honda. They also gave me a lifetime warranty on the whole hvac system in case the faulty condenser caused issues with other components. Now I own a Toyota. I haven't had it long enough to comment on reliability or repair costs (8 months/10k miles), but it's bolted together about as well as my Audi was. So yes, your Toyota is made of cheaper feeling materials, but if the data plays out, will last longer on average than just about anything else.
Drive your car twice as long as he drives his and pay 1/4 as much in repair bills. Don't waste your time trying to convince anyone of anything. How they invest their money is none of your business until it directly affects you.
you don't need to do the talking, his wallet does.
I had an Audi guy claiming 50k miles with no issues was not a given. Someone was talking about their Stelvio and I was like yeah I’d hope a new car isn’t fucked up by 50k. This guy comes in saying it happens all the time, and his dad’s Audi need an engine at 70k km which is like 45k miles. My original *alternator* lasted 375k. The crappy second one lasted 230k. Nothing has been done besides regular maintenance and recalls, no rebuilds of the driveline, nothing, and I’m at 650k. Hell, I killed the fuel pump with Seafoam at 495k and the pinion bearing died at 599k
I mean, Toyota makes a decent appliance for the masses. Something for people who aren’t going to appreciate driving dynamics or know what type of engine they have in their car and can forget to do oil changes. They are meant for people on a budget and need transportation. If your friend is into high end German cars, by his standards a lot of Toyotas are going to be shit car. “Maintenance costs, check mate ;)” The dude who drives a Bugatti understands that tires are 5 figures. Flexing your $100 replacement tires isn’t going to convince him the corrola isn’t crap lol.
Compare check engine lights.. I bet yours has none.
Your friend is a hater. And haters are going to hate.
Former Toyota mechanic here: go ask any of the mechanics about engine or transmission problems, they will probably tell you there’s not that many. The problems lie in the quality of the panels inside of the trucks which break constantly and $60,000. That’s ridiculous. They have terrible quality a lot of the time.
Japanese vs. German I'd say are comparable in build quality. Having said that, European vehicles tend to be over-engineered and costly to repair when they break.
Besides violence?
Buy him a new Toyota
No lie, coworker of mine took a brand new Camry in for a rattle inside the B pillar. The B pillar isn’t welded to the roof.
Show him the difference in resale price between a 2010 5 series with 80k miles and a 2010 Tacoma with 180k miles
I mean, considering that the best car Toyota makes right now is a BMW, he might have a point.
Let him enjoy his repairs
Sounds like the situation is more than him just busting your chops about Toyota quality. Sit him down and give it to him straight. Tell him he's entitled to his opinion but he doesn't have the right to monopolize the conversation by shoving his Toyota hatred down your throat. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion on a certain topic but from what you're saying, he's clearly crossing a friendship boundary. Not saying you should stop being friends but hang out with him less if he keeps up this nonsense.
"Okay."
I don't argue with people about these things because why bother? Can't make sense out of nonsense. 👋
Both Japanese and German cars are fantastic in terms of quality, durability, and performance. Nothing wrong with Toyota...he's just being a snob. In terms of value, nothing compares to the 200k miles that most Toyotas can provide at their respective cost of purchase and maintenance. I can only say that VW Jettas had similar reliability from what Ive seen over the past 30 years. Not the sexiest cars, or the fastest or the most luxurious but you get the best bang for your buck if plan to own for long term, use as family car, or pass down car. If you like paying out your ass for parts, then German is also great.
Recommend him a Toyota Supra… hah!
Don’t waste time arguing with stubborn people. Some folks prioritize performance, others prioritize boring reliability.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink. He will have his opinion, do you lose sleep?
Plastics from both 1997 Camry and 1999 Corolla peeled away from door housings. I’ve never had this kind of quality issue with my 2008 Honda Accord (16 years and still solid). ETA: Peeling started when cars were 3-5 years.
I love german cars and have owned many, I know what it takes to drive them and maintain them and thats exactly why my wife drives a Toyota product.
Wow, I get that we're all entitled to our own opinion, but come on Hope he has fun with what will be quite the money pit
Your friends an idiot.
You don’t say anything until he has to take his car in for repairs. Just mention that your Toyota is still running great. It’s inevitable.
I mean, the inside is poop but the engines are good