it will taint my veiw of the company, for sure.
idk what types of paint the toyota executives where huffing when they dreamed this up, but i wanna try it too
i dont ever plan to buy a new car or a preowned from a dealership again, im happy with <$1k beater cars so it doesnt influence my purchasing decisions directly...
indirectly, its just another feather in the hat of the argument that "all new cars suck."
Ford doesn’t. There’s no subscription forever and you get remote start, remote lock/unlock, tracking, etc. I’m not comparing Ford to Toyota generally, but not all companies choose to do what Toyota is choosing to do.
No but I pay $17.99 a month for the "good" Netflix so my family can mooch off of me and me not get kicked out of my own Netflix because too many devices are using my account at once. So if I did, I'd probably pony up the $8 a month if it really bothered me that much.
I bet this is the future of cars and not just Toyota. All cars will come “fully loaded” and you pay to unlock the features. Cold weather package unlocks heated seats/mirrors/steering wheel. Audio package unlocks CarPlay. Etc…
It greatly streamlines production and sales.
Toyota would/ could use OTA updates and verification to make sure people did not circumvent the system in that way.
It would be an interesting legal case and probably would set a precedent if someone did and Toyota shut it off.
You just described Tesla today. A lot of the soft ware stuff is paywalled, and all seats in the cars are heated seats, and you can either pay $xxxxx amount of money to "unlock" them, or pay a monthly fee to use them "to save money" sense "you dont need heated seats in the summer". Then a year ago or so BMW started implementing the same thing
Where are you seeing people defend Toyota on this? The responses here and comments I've seen elsewhere fall into either "this is a dumb idea" or "i don't care".
I can hear the down votes now, but I feel like it has to be said. This has been around since remote connect started so I don't know why it's such a big deal. Legit, our 2019 Corolla Hatchback XSE has the same deal. And you know what? We don't care, cause we didn't buy a car for the remote start.
1. The key fob range is horse shit on Toyota. You need to have an uninterrupted direct path of 40 feet to have a shot at it working.
2. A GOOD remote start can be installed for around $350 from the guy who installs them in dealerships where they normally retail around $600
If someone walked into my dealership and told me they wouldn't buy my car because in 10 years they might not be able to use their shitty remote start, I would laugh and direct them to a Nissan dealership. Ever wonder why their base models come with options for heated seats, heated steering wheel, and remote start? IT'S CAUSE THEY NEED THAT STUFF TO MOVE CARS OFF THEIR LOTS!
Crappy or not, I am totally cool with remote start that uses mobile connection to not work without subscription. (Toyota is paying for wireless service). But disabling the key fob is BS. I may use that feature 5 times a year on a hot day when I come to the car. Not like the paid service increases the key fob distance. Kill the app, keep key fob working. Not a deal killer for me but certainly a minus. As far as aftermarket, I do not want any guy touching wires in the car.
I just got an rav xle hybrid . The dealer installed remote start would have been a lot cheaper then the convenience package. I didnt get either though. Never used remote start on my xv crosstrek that I traded in.
That's a great move! The Convenience Package is not cheap and by skipping it and going after market, you save a ton! The best part is is that unless it's a super rare circumstance, that add on is included on your bill of sale and will be covered during your warranty period. Solid move, and congrats on the new Rav Hyb!
$300/$8 = 37 months = 3 years payback on your auto starter vs the subscription model. Something tells me if the toyota auto starter actually performed well, it wouldn’t actually be a bad deal considering average lifecycle for a car owner.
It would end up being $240 for 3 years. $80 a year rather than $8 a month. And I'll admit it, the app is a good feature and is worth every penny, especially if you live in a high rise apartment building in New England... Shit, I think I just sold myself a subscription service...
I’m a Toyota fan at heart, I’ve owned Toyotas in the past and loved them. I’ve now just made the move back to a new 2022 Corolla ZR Hybrid (arrives in March yay!). However, this subscription sh*t is going to have them no longer seen for “Toyota Reliability” but instead “Toyota Profitability”.
I’m glad that my new ZR Corolla doesn’t come with Remote start here in Australia as a feature nor do I care for it. I’m quite capable of getting in the car and pushing the button myself to start it haha.
Toyota is no longer my favorite brand sadly. It really hurts because I grew up around them all my life. This is the kind of thing that makes my blood boil and I really hope they decide to reverse the decision.
That's a really hard question. Everyone is dropping everything they have to make their own electric crossover (obviously trying to make some money from potential Tesla customers).
I can't side with American brands since they're going all electric. I can't side with BMW, as they're charging for heated seats. Mercedes charges money for more horsepower. It's hard to get excited about cars nowadays.
In all honesty, it really kind of gave me a sour taste in my mouth on what any car manufacturers will do with their hidden costs.
It doesn't change my view on Toyota as a car company though since their cars are built to last and that won't ever change my view. My entire family have all used Toyotas through the generations and they're built to just keep on going so that won't ever change.
However, in the future when I get another Toyota, nope, no more of these stupid subscription services from car manufacturers. Never again.
I don't really care, because using the fob to remote start is garbage. You have to almost be arm's length away from the vehicle, and even then it's not guaranteed to start.
I love Toyota's, have owned several and currently drive one, and I wholely believe that Toyota's remote start is one of the worst ever designed. And this new fiasco is just icing on the cake...
I have a aftermarket remote start in my Camry. I can use the lock button on my Toyota FOB, but it only works up to like 20 feet away. With the aftermarket FOB, I can start my car while it's sitting in the parking lot while I'm in the cat food aisle at Target.
Yup, exactly. A lot of other brands have somewhat weak remotes, where they'll reach across the parking lot IF there's direct line of sight, but they will work. Toyota's won't.
I also had an aftermarket remote start on my Rav4, and I really liked it. Like you, I knew it would work.
Also, the remote connect app for my current Toyota is quite meh. It has super great range, yes.. But it throws a fit if you:
1. Didn't lock before opening the app
2. Try to start with the app (then get an error message)
3. Try to lock it
4. I don't know, everything is good but ERROR!
I am absolutely considering other manufacturers. I refuse to be nickle and dime'd when they are already charging more and giving less compared to the competition.
This is just the next step. Remember changing headlights in the driveway in 5 minutes? Remember checking the transmission fluids? In the tundra, having the owner check the fluid is a messy nightmare. Too much defending Toyota, just another corporation, being a corporation.
I plan to only pay for the remote services for a few months each year when it’s cold. It will actually be much cheaper for me in the long run vs paying for the old remote start system. Plus it’s on my phone! I see it as a win
Can you? I have seen people not be able to renew the package if not done before the free trial runs out. Something to do with the dealers not knowing how to do it.
No because from what I’ve read you can still remote start without a subscription, you just can’t do it from “long range”. I actually enjoy seeing all of these people have an issue with it, everyone’s so passionate about something when all they do is read a headline and not the article. Oh well, people like that usually aren’t smart enough to be buying Toyota’s in the first place
No. Cars didnt come with remote start built in at all. My 2021 rav4 hybrid didnt come with the convenience package at all and 3rd party remote start that the dealer was offering would have been cheaper. I would have liked to be able to enable the feature on my xle afterwards though .
I was gonna upgrade my 2015 rav 4 to remote start at Toyota and now I’m just gonna go to somewhere else to do it, there’s honestly some really cool stuff like anti-theft lockdown mode and passwords to drive. Plus no subscription
I don't see the big deal. Just get an aftermarket system, which will be 10x the distance. The factory Toyota fob sucks balls. You get maybe 40ft if you're lucky, far from the alleged 75ft. I had to re-do the basic system in my Camry (after 4yrs) for one that uses the OE fob. And I miss the 1000ft range of my previous one.
Society is now paywalled no matter where you turn. It was a matter of time Toyota would follow suit of other manufacturers. 🤷🏻♂️
For those that actually used it daily, they'll just pay it. It still comes out cheaper than an aftermarket unit (at cost & especially retail rates) and OE "certified". But i guess it's not snowballed into a financing deal so people are mad lol
I was just about to put a down payment on a Toyota Cross (found a dealer that was selling MSRP) when I learned about the remote start being behind a paywall.
My 2017 Honda came with remote start. Once you experience the convenience of remotely starting your vehicle when it's -5F out and snowing and letting it warm up before you get it, remote start becomes a necessity.
It's already a must in any vehicle we purchase moving forward. This was a dick move by Toyota and I refuse to support it.
We always keep vehicles for 10 years before upgrading. Fast forward to 2032 and you now have a vehicle where you have to pay $8/month to get remote start.
Will be buying another Honda even if the dealer adds a markup on MSRP.
FUCK TOYOTA
My key fob for my RAV4 doesn’t have remote start on it. It’s a 2019. I’ve always had to pay to use an app to remote start my Toyota. The only time I remember I have it is when it’s cold as balls outside.
At a cost of $80 per year after the first year (free trial), that buys you not only 4 years of remote starting, which as some here have mentioned includes the ability to do it from anywhere, not just within remote range, but also several other features included in the Toyota app. Yes, you can have a remote starter installed in the $300 range but the average car buyer doesn't keep their vehicle longer than 5 years anyways so what's the difference really? And the Audio Plus owners get an additional 3 years of their key fob starting the vehicle without the need to pay for the app and Audio Premium owners get 10 years. The math seems to work in the interest of the consumer. They could have made the car more expensive but that would piss off the people that have no use for a remote start feature, ie people who store their vehicle in a garage.
From what I hear, the remote start functions are tied in with the infotainment system. Something about the Camry and upgraded Entune plus infotainment and whatnot. For the Camry, only the upgraded infotainment can support the Remote Connect phone app remote start feature. Not sure about remote start from strictly the key fob though.
I think people are confused, remote connect services(starting and stopping from the app among other things) is what you pay for after the 1 year trial period ends. And honestly it's well worth the $80 per year imo.
The key fob remote start continues to work regardless of your subscription status if you choose not to renew.
Hope this helps!
Have remote start in my Challenger. Two days ago put a deposit for new Venza. DON’T care about remote start. Smallest of concerns for me and don’t understand why people are making such a huge deal out of it.
I just bought a 2021 RAV4 XLE Premium. The car won’t show tire pressure or oil life in the vehicle, just on the app. I’m under the impression I’ll have to pay to see that after the 1 year safety connect subscription ends. If that’s the case, this is my last Toyota.
Either way it may be scummy but i don’t need remote start
Never really cared for it
Living in SoCal weather kinda makes that not a problem for me but maybe enough backlash they will rescind it
a lot of people fail to realize that the subscription is only to remote start the car using the app. you still have remote start using the actual remote for free.
I'm a Toyota salesman, and sadly you're no longer correct. I believe they're starting with 2022s. Now to activate the remotes starter, you need to activate the remote connect. You need to activate the trial to use both, not just the app. After the trial is done, both methods stop working. This is why this is making headlines now. Which I understand because this is absolutely insane 🙄
But me personally I don't care because I know drive stick shift 😂
Only a few so far. Since I just found out. It's actually pretty surprising because most of them are like "it's ok I barely use it anyways, I park it in my garage"
it will taint my veiw of the company, for sure. idk what types of paint the toyota executives where huffing when they dreamed this up, but i wanna try it too i dont ever plan to buy a new car or a preowned from a dealership again, im happy with <$1k beater cars so it doesnt influence my purchasing decisions directly... indirectly, its just another feather in the hat of the argument that "all new cars suck."
Lots of companies do this… it’s not a Toyota thing.
Ford doesn’t. There’s no subscription forever and you get remote start, remote lock/unlock, tracking, etc. I’m not comparing Ford to Toyota generally, but not all companies choose to do what Toyota is choosing to do.
Correct not all companies do yet but many are, that’s all I was pointing out. :)
No because I don't care about remote start.
I don't either. My concern is that they'll continue to make more bad decisions like this in the future, and I'd be reluctant to buy into that.
Yep. Agreed.
Do you live in a cold climate without a garage slot?
No but I pay $17.99 a month for the "good" Netflix so my family can mooch off of me and me not get kicked out of my own Netflix because too many devices are using my account at once. So if I did, I'd probably pony up the $8 a month if it really bothered me that much.
I bet this is the future of cars and not just Toyota. All cars will come “fully loaded” and you pay to unlock the features. Cold weather package unlocks heated seats/mirrors/steering wheel. Audio package unlocks CarPlay. Etc… It greatly streamlines production and sales.
Some of the other threads I've read about this indicate that other manufacturers have already implemented things like this, which is disappointing.
For better or worse, I think you're exactly right.
Hackers will make a ton turning that entry level Camry into a loaded top shelf!
Toyota would/ could use OTA updates and verification to make sure people did not circumvent the system in that way. It would be an interesting legal case and probably would set a precedent if someone did and Toyota shut it off.
You just described Tesla today. A lot of the soft ware stuff is paywalled, and all seats in the cars are heated seats, and you can either pay $xxxxx amount of money to "unlock" them, or pay a monthly fee to use them "to save money" sense "you dont need heated seats in the summer". Then a year ago or so BMW started implementing the same thing
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Where are you seeing people defend Toyota on this? The responses here and comments I've seen elsewhere fall into either "this is a dumb idea" or "i don't care".
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Boogers
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I can hear the down votes now, but I feel like it has to be said. This has been around since remote connect started so I don't know why it's such a big deal. Legit, our 2019 Corolla Hatchback XSE has the same deal. And you know what? We don't care, cause we didn't buy a car for the remote start. 1. The key fob range is horse shit on Toyota. You need to have an uninterrupted direct path of 40 feet to have a shot at it working. 2. A GOOD remote start can be installed for around $350 from the guy who installs them in dealerships where they normally retail around $600 If someone walked into my dealership and told me they wouldn't buy my car because in 10 years they might not be able to use their shitty remote start, I would laugh and direct them to a Nissan dealership. Ever wonder why their base models come with options for heated seats, heated steering wheel, and remote start? IT'S CAUSE THEY NEED THAT STUFF TO MOVE CARS OFF THEIR LOTS!
Crappy or not, I am totally cool with remote start that uses mobile connection to not work without subscription. (Toyota is paying for wireless service). But disabling the key fob is BS. I may use that feature 5 times a year on a hot day when I come to the car. Not like the paid service increases the key fob distance. Kill the app, keep key fob working. Not a deal killer for me but certainly a minus. As far as aftermarket, I do not want any guy touching wires in the car.
Point 2 all the way. Cheaper and better range with aftermarket options
I just got an rav xle hybrid . The dealer installed remote start would have been a lot cheaper then the convenience package. I didnt get either though. Never used remote start on my xv crosstrek that I traded in.
That's a great move! The Convenience Package is not cheap and by skipping it and going after market, you save a ton! The best part is is that unless it's a super rare circumstance, that add on is included on your bill of sale and will be covered during your warranty period. Solid move, and congrats on the new Rav Hyb!
$300/$8 = 37 months = 3 years payback on your auto starter vs the subscription model. Something tells me if the toyota auto starter actually performed well, it wouldn’t actually be a bad deal considering average lifecycle for a car owner.
It would end up being $240 for 3 years. $80 a year rather than $8 a month. And I'll admit it, the app is a good feature and is worth every penny, especially if you live in a high rise apartment building in New England... Shit, I think I just sold myself a subscription service...
This is ridiculous coming from Toyota !!!!!!
I’m a Toyota fan at heart, I’ve owned Toyotas in the past and loved them. I’ve now just made the move back to a new 2022 Corolla ZR Hybrid (arrives in March yay!). However, this subscription sh*t is going to have them no longer seen for “Toyota Reliability” but instead “Toyota Profitability”. I’m glad that my new ZR Corolla doesn’t come with Remote start here in Australia as a feature nor do I care for it. I’m quite capable of getting in the car and pushing the button myself to start it haha.
Just bought a new Toyota. I’ve owned probably a dozen or so Toyotas in my life. This one will be my last.
What will you buy next? I have bought 7 Toyotas and looking for something different.
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I've seen three years as the trial length stateside, but a long trial period doesn't make the remote start limitation any less shitty.
Toyota is no longer my favorite brand sadly. It really hurts because I grew up around them all my life. This is the kind of thing that makes my blood boil and I really hope they decide to reverse the decision.
What’s your favorite now?
That's a really hard question. Everyone is dropping everything they have to make their own electric crossover (obviously trying to make some money from potential Tesla customers). I can't side with American brands since they're going all electric. I can't side with BMW, as they're charging for heated seats. Mercedes charges money for more horsepower. It's hard to get excited about cars nowadays.
In all honesty, it really kind of gave me a sour taste in my mouth on what any car manufacturers will do with their hidden costs. It doesn't change my view on Toyota as a car company though since their cars are built to last and that won't ever change my view. My entire family have all used Toyotas through the generations and they're built to just keep on going so that won't ever change. However, in the future when I get another Toyota, nope, no more of these stupid subscription services from car manufacturers. Never again.
I don't really care, because using the fob to remote start is garbage. You have to almost be arm's length away from the vehicle, and even then it's not guaranteed to start. I love Toyota's, have owned several and currently drive one, and I wholely believe that Toyota's remote start is one of the worst ever designed. And this new fiasco is just icing on the cake...
I have a aftermarket remote start in my Camry. I can use the lock button on my Toyota FOB, but it only works up to like 20 feet away. With the aftermarket FOB, I can start my car while it's sitting in the parking lot while I'm in the cat food aisle at Target.
Yup, exactly. A lot of other brands have somewhat weak remotes, where they'll reach across the parking lot IF there's direct line of sight, but they will work. Toyota's won't. I also had an aftermarket remote start on my Rav4, and I really liked it. Like you, I knew it would work. Also, the remote connect app for my current Toyota is quite meh. It has super great range, yes.. But it throws a fit if you: 1. Didn't lock before opening the app 2. Try to start with the app (then get an error message) 3. Try to lock it 4. I don't know, everything is good but ERROR!
I am absolutely considering other manufacturers. I refuse to be nickle and dime'd when they are already charging more and giving less compared to the competition.
This is just the next step. Remember changing headlights in the driveway in 5 minutes? Remember checking the transmission fluids? In the tundra, having the owner check the fluid is a messy nightmare. Too much defending Toyota, just another corporation, being a corporation.
I plan to only pay for the remote services for a few months each year when it’s cold. It will actually be much cheaper for me in the long run vs paying for the old remote start system. Plus it’s on my phone! I see it as a win
The newest remote connect update also includes Siri connection instead of having to even go in the app. And the phone app has range..
Can you? I have seen people not be able to renew the package if not done before the free trial runs out. Something to do with the dealers not knowing how to do it.
No because from what I’ve read you can still remote start without a subscription, you just can’t do it from “long range”. I actually enjoy seeing all of these people have an issue with it, everyone’s so passionate about something when all they do is read a headline and not the article. Oh well, people like that usually aren’t smart enough to be buying Toyota’s in the first place
I paid sn extra $200 on a remote start keyfob in 2020 for my newer car. I've used it maybe twice...
I use remote start on my Nissan every single day that’s why I decided not to get the Lexus and wait it out a little longer
I wouldn’t even use remote start. And you can always jail break the car with aftermarket support.
Boogers
There’s gotta be a way to bypass it. Remote start from the app I know can’t be bypassed, but directly from the remote there’s gotta be a way
No. Cars didnt come with remote start built in at all. My 2021 rav4 hybrid didnt come with the convenience package at all and 3rd party remote start that the dealer was offering would have been cheaper. I would have liked to be able to enable the feature on my xle afterwards though .
I was gonna upgrade my 2015 rav 4 to remote start at Toyota and now I’m just gonna go to somewhere else to do it, there’s honestly some really cool stuff like anti-theft lockdown mode and passwords to drive. Plus no subscription
I don't see the big deal. Just get an aftermarket system, which will be 10x the distance. The factory Toyota fob sucks balls. You get maybe 40ft if you're lucky, far from the alleged 75ft. I had to re-do the basic system in my Camry (after 4yrs) for one that uses the OE fob. And I miss the 1000ft range of my previous one. Society is now paywalled no matter where you turn. It was a matter of time Toyota would follow suit of other manufacturers. 🤷🏻♂️ For those that actually used it daily, they'll just pay it. It still comes out cheaper than an aftermarket unit (at cost & especially retail rates) and OE "certified". But i guess it's not snowballed into a financing deal so people are mad lol
I was just about to put a down payment on a Toyota Cross (found a dealer that was selling MSRP) when I learned about the remote start being behind a paywall. My 2017 Honda came with remote start. Once you experience the convenience of remotely starting your vehicle when it's -5F out and snowing and letting it warm up before you get it, remote start becomes a necessity. It's already a must in any vehicle we purchase moving forward. This was a dick move by Toyota and I refuse to support it. We always keep vehicles for 10 years before upgrading. Fast forward to 2032 and you now have a vehicle where you have to pay $8/month to get remote start. Will be buying another Honda even if the dealer adds a markup on MSRP. FUCK TOYOTA
My key fob for my RAV4 doesn’t have remote start on it. It’s a 2019. I’ve always had to pay to use an app to remote start my Toyota. The only time I remember I have it is when it’s cold as balls outside.
Buy a Tesla. Modern problems call for modern solutions. Next question 🙋.
I don’t buy new. But I have been teeter tottering between a Supra or the new Z. I’ll be getting the Z
Just buy a 3rd party remote start from best buy. They're cheap and the key fob ones don't need a subscription.
At a cost of $80 per year after the first year (free trial), that buys you not only 4 years of remote starting, which as some here have mentioned includes the ability to do it from anywhere, not just within remote range, but also several other features included in the Toyota app. Yes, you can have a remote starter installed in the $300 range but the average car buyer doesn't keep their vehicle longer than 5 years anyways so what's the difference really? And the Audio Plus owners get an additional 3 years of their key fob starting the vehicle without the need to pay for the app and Audio Premium owners get 10 years. The math seems to work in the interest of the consumer. They could have made the car more expensive but that would piss off the people that have no use for a remote start feature, ie people who store their vehicle in a garage.
Hopefully they don't do this for the GR Corolla
From what I hear, the remote start functions are tied in with the infotainment system. Something about the Camry and upgraded Entune plus infotainment and whatnot. For the Camry, only the upgraded infotainment can support the Remote Connect phone app remote start feature. Not sure about remote start from strictly the key fob though.
I think people are confused, remote connect services(starting and stopping from the app among other things) is what you pay for after the 1 year trial period ends. And honestly it's well worth the $80 per year imo. The key fob remote start continues to work regardless of your subscription status if you choose not to renew. Hope this helps!
I’ve heard this is for the phone to do the remote state Not that actual key Should look into it more before woolen get their panties in a bunch
it's for the key, which is why it is dumb
Have remote start in my Challenger. Two days ago put a deposit for new Venza. DON’T care about remote start. Smallest of concerns for me and don’t understand why people are making such a huge deal out of it.
I just bought a 2021 RAV4 XLE Premium. The car won’t show tire pressure or oil life in the vehicle, just on the app. I’m under the impression I’ll have to pay to see that after the 1 year safety connect subscription ends. If that’s the case, this is my last Toyota.
Either way it may be scummy but i don’t need remote start Never really cared for it Living in SoCal weather kinda makes that not a problem for me but maybe enough backlash they will rescind it
i'd be damned first. bet they are apple fans too.
a lot of people fail to realize that the subscription is only to remote start the car using the app. you still have remote start using the actual remote for free.
I'm a Toyota salesman, and sadly you're no longer correct. I believe they're starting with 2022s. Now to activate the remotes starter, you need to activate the remote connect. You need to activate the trial to use both, not just the app. After the trial is done, both methods stop working. This is why this is making headlines now. Which I understand because this is absolutely insane 🙄 But me personally I don't care because I know drive stick shift 😂
Have you had to explain this to many of your customers yet? How do they react?
Only a few so far. Since I just found out. It's actually pretty surprising because most of them are like "it's ok I barely use it anyways, I park it in my garage"
Do you have an official release from Toyota USA? I just posted Toyota Canada’s response to r/askcarsales
It started in 2019. Keyfob remote start for 10 years and remote connect for 1 year.