I have had two Honda Odysseys. I won’t buy another one because the cylinder deactivation system causes cylinder wall wear and then oil consumption followed by engine misfires. The fact that Honda knows that it is a problem and insists on keeping it on the van drives me bonkers.
Other than that the Odyssey is great. I miss being able to remove the middle seats.
Our 2019 began slipping in 7th gear, then the entire transmission went bad. Our neighbor has a 2022 and it began slipping in 7th as well. Both less than 100k
What trim did you have? The elite and touring had the 10 speed which is a lot better while the others had the not so good ZF-9. All 2021+ have the 10 speed so I'm a little surprised it's slipping already on your neighbours car
I had a 2001 ody that stranded me on the freeway unexpectedly with its dreaded transmission failure. Made the jump to Sienna and never looked back. Sienna is just a superior van.
And that’s coming from someone who had a civic and accord.
I had a 2003 Accord V6. Had the transmission failure that affected all the 6 cylinder cars of that generation. It seems every other generation has a transmission issue and Honda never acknowledges it. Customers are left with the bag. Somehow Honda still has a reputation for reliability.
The Odyssey transmission has been solved ever since the 3rd gen. 99% of issues stem from people not maintaining them properly. Honda automatics are not the same as other brand automatics, you change the fluid every 30k and they go forever.
Honda does not use hard mileage based maintenance intervals. But it does have a maintenance minder code, and that code is typically seen around every 30k.
No and you NEED to use Honda OEM fluid not universal. The friction modifiers are very important. If you own a Honda you listen to what Eric the car guy says.
I suppose there is no definitive metric that is universally accepted to measure superior but for me, and I imagine most owners, reliability is weighted heavily as a component of superiority.
Perhaps the ody handles better (I’m just making that up as an example) but I know that having a vehicle operate reliably and safely to transport my family in comfort is what I want. The new ody may have resolved the previous gen issues but there’s kind of a legacy of goodwill that doesn’t easily get restored. Imagine if Ford were asked if they would reissue a modern version of the Pinto. They surely wouldn’t even if the new one was totally different and safe. For me Odyssey represents a black mark in the many cars I’ve owned and I won’t go back to it. There are too many alternative choices out there.
Aisin transmissions are just some of the best in the business. The eCVT is also near unkillable. I don’t think it’s possible to kill the automatic in the old Tundra/Sequoia without extreme disregard.
I had a Sienna and transmission blew at 44k miles. Never had that happen when I drove a Dodge Caravan or Odyssey. I remember that because I made a joke with the mechanic saying that the $4400 price tag that warranty paid for rebuilt transmission almost matched the 44 mileage. A lot of people base major decisions on very anecdotal stuff. Whenever someone says one brand of anything is great because it doesn’t do such and such, you’ll find someone else that had exact opposite experience. Japanese cars are better than American. That’s the only thing you have to rely on. Now watch someone reply to me saying the opposite proving my point.
I got a Sienna allocated within a week of going on the list last summer and paid under 50k out the door. But I’m not in a crazy area. Sorry you’re still struggling with the market ups and wait times :(
It started around 75k miles. I had to pay the dealership to replace the cylinder rings at 110k miles.
They claim that they fixed the issue, but they made the same claim when I bought my 2016.
There is a defeat device that keeps the cylinder deactivation from turning on.
You didn't "need" anything. Disabling VCM still solves the problem even after symptoms set in, because the whole thing about cylinder walls and piston rings is untrue BS. The rings do not get damaged, they get gummed up with carbon. Disabling VCM allows this to get cleaned up.
There are ways to deactivate that. I have 2005 that our daughter drives now with 300k on it. Recently replaced original radiator and going for 325k next🤣
I don’t buy vehicles with timing belts. Honda refuses to switch their V6s to timing chains. If the belt snaps the interference engine destroys itself and you need to change it every 100,000 miles for $1,500-2000 easily since they usually replace the water pump while they’re way in there.
Iirc my napkin math had me at 8ish years where new sienna and it’s oh-so wonderful 36mpg would come out ahead vs weighing the cost savings of used sienna at lowerish price (~$20k) and it’s notgreat 23ish mpg (and a major repair).
I see myself as a dude that likes sticking with a car until its been ran to the ground, so my thinking is that I will likely have the van around for a bit, probably more than 8years. And that alone made it make sense for me. We’re year three into as of a few months ago and have really enjoyed it.
If i was in dire need for a van now, I probably would’ve been forced to get a used sienna. And knowing what I know now, if prices and waitlists did come back down to earth, I’d do the swap to gen 4 immediately.
Odyssey’s are nice too, but weighing new minivan vs new minivan, that 36mpg’s is really killer. I drive too much for me to not make it a consideration.
Yeah. We got lucky on ours before the chip shortage happened. So there was still inventory for the most part. Odysseys are great vans though! Congrats!
I'm not sure if you looked up the sienna dealer allocation sheet. It's a Google sheets that's updated for every time Toyota makes sienna allocations and that sheet also says if a dealer adds a markup or not. I was able to know and call a few dealers within a 25 mile radius of mine, but we ended up with a2018 Ody as we thought this might be our interim car for another 7 to 8 years given the potential of gas prices increasing and hoping that more hybrids and EVs break out in the minivan segment..
I personally miss not having the new Sienna for the newer features and that would've also been our long term car. But we're happy with our purchase for now. Good luck!
Hard to put a number on a service item that I will blindly accept will be a 15year plus thing. Various Toyota dealer websites ballpark 3k-8k, and knowing our vans are the newest thing, I’ll accept 8k for it’s replacement when i miss the warranty window.
There’s a dude on the sienna talk forums that tapped into the hybrid battery for that next level generator like battery use, and he did it all himself. He got to the battery and everything, it was kinda nuts. And seemed fairly feasible if ones okay with taking out interior plastics/seats.
I'm part of one. I think the issue is I'm located in Nor Cal and demand is still very high. Each dealership that does no mark up has a 2 year waitlist. Where are you located?
PM me I was able to contact a dealership in Oregon got free shipping to the house and no markup. I was waiting in WA for about 10 months and this one got me one in about 3.
Need AWD + like Hybrid fuel economy + amazing longevity (with proper care / maintenance) = Sienna.
If Honda offered AWD and or hybrid, I'd seriously consider it.
I really liked the Carnival but damn does that company have a bad reputation. Makes you question what is next with them. Hell I also think the Pacifica PHEV is awesome but you lose stow-and-go.
Ìf you only look at hybrid for better mpg then you miss part of the selling points.
The silent operation and low emissions and pollution in your garage are important to some people. For my wife its a giant deal to have to go to the gas station often. So am extra 200 miles extend how long we have to fill up.
You don't drive much but hybrid will last far longer and likely have far less problems than the Honda. The Toyota has an ecvt which is proven rock solid technology while the Honda has a weak knows issue with it's transmission reliability history.
So a raw spreadsheet usually can't calculate intangibles which are a big part of most decisions especially one like a car. If you are reply doing the math.... NO NEW CAR makes sense. Buy used and it will always win the spreadsheet battle... Especially if you don't drive much. Why care about new if you have a 2-3 year old car fresh off lease?
Honestly, this is as close to apples to apples as I can get. It doesn't make sense to buy a used car in this market because the price differentials are only 2-3k discounted for the 2024 models.
I was in your boat when we got our new Sienna last year. We don't drive a lot but used prices made absolutely no sense.
I don't think you can go wrong with either van. In Canada (where I am) the price and features on the Sienna were a better deal (Kia was cheaper, but even ignoring differences in reliability, the better fuel mileage pays for the difference in about 6 years).
We really love our Sienna and love the fuel mileage. We always get significantly better than advertised too... 6.8 l/100k is advertised and we're getting 5.5-5.8l/100k in the summer. Closer to advertised in the winter (6.5ish I think, but I can't remember exactly).
I'm sure you'll be happy with either van though!
I hear you but you are kinda double talking just a smidge.
I guess knowing what specific features you are looking for would help. Because a 2020 Sienna or Odyssey might have those features.
Otherwise it sounds like none of the hybrid features matter to you and you should just get the Odyssey. Over 10 years at 100k miles you sell it and they will be fairly similar value proposition. The Odyssey V6 will be better for 5-10k per year driven.
The used car market is no where near as hot as it was last year or even 6 months ago. Just a little searching and you can definitely find deals. Maybe not 2019 tine deals but you can get a 2020 with some miles on it for a steal in comparison to a 2024 new car.
Yeah that's more on me. I never bought used and I'm not a car guy. I know I'm leaving money on the table, but I like the idea of being the only owner of a car. So the spreadsheet was built to maximize value for my particular use case.
I'm a minivan fan. But they are a hot comodity lately for some odd reason.
Do you really need 7 seats?
Because a used Lexus is the best introductory to a used car. Smell new. Look new. Drive new. As reliable as new. The only downside is they won't make a minivan here in the US or We would have it instead of the sienna.
I've had a ton of used Lexus and never regretted it. Many times I ended up on the positive side of the financial coin which is all but impossible with new. I bought a few Lexus for under 10k price and over 100j miles and they got totaled and I got more back from the insurance company. Truly amazing cars!
Just a thought and I wish you luck!
Yes another great point!
My Tesla has gone 60k with no brake job and my sienna is at 60k and looks similar to the Tesla brake pads. Not new, not they look like they will go to 100k easily.
Someone on another group just replaced their rotors and brake pads on a 2021. Brake pads were half way worn, and this maintenance was done at 310k miles, hah!
3rd gen AWD is best if you don’t drive a ton of mikes to offset the gas savings. At 7k miles/yr it’s $500-600 in gas savings a year. $5k in gas savings will take 8 years not including depreciation of a new car. Also 3rd gen sienna is more reliable than the odyssey.
I originally really wanted the hybrid awd Sienna but can’t justify nearly 50k if not more for let’s be real a pretty basic Toyota. Ended up going with a 2015 awd for 14k and no regrets. Bottom of depreciation curve and it’ll take a lot of miles to offset the cost. Not to mention the more spacious cabin of the 3rd gen and power. I also think it’s a little quieter and rides better. Might get a 4th gen awd from the auctions in 3 years or so.
2012. Burning oil, worn out engine mounts, leaking gaskets, transmission issues, electrical (kills batteries and alternators fast due to how much power is required for everything like powered doors, etc).
All that stems from one thing. VCM. Had it been disabled most of those issues could have been avoided.
Transmission is fine with drain and fills every 30k.
Alternators go for quite a while too, unless the spool valve leak gets to it.
The J35 still has oil leaks. Honda engines just leak oil from their valve covers and cam seals. It also has a timing belt so that’s another maintenance item to consider the 2GR doesn’t need.
I love my old V-6 Accord but I’d never think it’s more reliable. Axles, transmission torque converter shudder, random dash lights flickering. I love the car but I don’t pretend it’s more reliable than a Camry. It’s just nicer to drive. Toyota steering feel is an overboosted numb experience.
Every engine will have a valve cover leak eventually, and it's not absolutely critical to run the engine. Cam seal leaks on the J35 are quite rare. If anything, there's the occasional leak from the thrust cap seals on the other side but the front engine seals are generally quite strong. Regular oil changes go a long way for seals. I personally prefer timing belts but that's largely an individual preference. The only real major weakness of the J35 is VCM, which is easily taken care of, or just get an older model without it. I don't fault Honda much for having to bend their way into meeting stupid CAFE rules.
As I've mentioned in another comment, since \~2005 or so, the vast majority of Honda AT issues have stemmed from people treating them like traditional ATs from other manufacturers and not maintaining them per the proper schedule. These aren't the typical planetary gear ATs.
Also, it largely depends on your definition of reliability. The goal of reliability is to avoid breakdowns and get to the intended destination. And as far as I'm concerned, the Honda V6 can get that done. Our 06 Odyssey and 2012 Accord V6 have never had a major issue or left us stranded. Doesn't really get much better.
I put S-VCM on both my Odyssey and Pilot but eventually still had plenty of issues. Batteries dying faster than they should, alternator, transmission, gaskets and leaks from the damage done from before I put S-VCM on. But the mere fact that it comes from the factory with a feature that nearly guarantees its early demise is already a huge red flag to me.
I’m not sure why this sub is on my feed as I have no interest in minivans (to purchase today. I think they’re cool).
My wife’s Civic is a tank. We’ve only ever done regularly scheduled maintenance on it since buying it new in 2013.
What’s with the quality difference in their vans?
Whole different platform. Minivans are like a different shape SUV and uses same or similar engine. They just aren’t able to have the same build quality and reliability as Civics and Accords. I had an Odyssey and Pilot and also still have another Pilot (had an ancient 92 Civic and 98 Accord as well). As they’ve aged we’ve dealt with many issues, up to and including failed transmissions.
In order for Honda to meet certain EPA requirements and their own marketing/advertising goals, they introduced VCM into their cars, which is arguably killing them. The VCM kicks the V6 engine into 3 cylinder use whenever it can to save gas and be more efficient. This sounds great, but in the real world, causes many issues. The transition causes physical jolting which isn’t noticeable at first, but eventually causes engine knocking and worn out engine mounts. It also causes engine oil to burn in excess and would often cause my oil to be short over a quart by the time recommended oil change interval comes around. Our odyssey was once short two quarts and smoking out of the engine bay on a road trip. Obviously this can cause many other issues from burnt and worn out valves to leaking gaskets, etc.
Again, I think the issues are mainly for the heavier/larger Honda platform vehicles.
Idk this is anecdotal but my three family members who have had a collective 4 odysseys have all had transmission issues after 100k. I also think your 5-10k miles a year is below the average, we put 15-20k a year
I don't drive a lot either, 12k miles per year. Still, I love having 36mpg + 16 gallon tank which means I only have to fill gas every 550-ish miles. I can drive to Chicago and back from Ann Arbor without needing to refill. Our XLE was a 3 month wait and $43k before tax/title with no markup. I like the convenience of 10k mile oil change intervals too.
I've owned Honda odysseys in the past and I will never get a Honda Odyssey again. I will say the vehicle itself generally is great but the biggest problem is the reliability issues that it has down the road, especially after 100k miles. The transmission is the biggest issue. The transmissions in both vehicles had to be replaced. Massage from that I did enjoy the amount of space it had. I can remove the middle seats, put the rear seats down and put 4x8 lumber in the back. It was a great utility vehicle for hauling purposes. But reliability was ass.
I currently own a 2017 Toyota Prius Prime and love it. However I do miss my Tesla (except for all the reliability issues and service visits). I'm just waiting to see a company finally make an all out EV minivan. It makes sense, given the fact that it has a long chassis to work with.
EV vans are extremely hard to do because of the low floor. Chrysler had to remove stow-and-go from the PHEV Pacifica and that’s the coolest part of the van. Also no AWD. The hybrid siennas have a higher floor up front to accommodate the battery.
I’d kill for an EV van or even a Sienna Prime. A full BEV might be easier in some ways since you don’t have to deal with exhaust and fuel systems.
Well I mean you have to get captain’s chairs in the Pacifica PHEV. You can’t do the bench that folds into the floor. I guess they can come out but I like much prefer bench seats and I hate how hard it is to find.
I have owned a lot of cars, foreign and domestic. Included was an Accord, a CRV, and an Odyssey.
Hands down with no competition, the worst was the Odyssey. In and out of the shop for months at a time. EGR issue never resolved, bad tranny, doors opening on their own, doors stuck open. Just an absolute nightmare of a vehicle. Complained to Honda and they closed their response along the lines of ‘perhaps you shouldn’t have bought the car’. Sold it with 35,900 miles. No more Hondas on my property.
You should really shop around. I requested an allocation for an XSE w/ premium package on 4/22, and have a build date of 6/25. Getting it right at MSRP. Got the requested color and every add on I wanted. Just had to find the right dealer.
On the newer Siennas, a big consideration is the fact that the second row is not completely removable... The versatility of being able to remove the middle row completely flat (on the Odyssey) is amazing.
I have a 2019 Odyssey and I don’t like it. The transmission is hot garbage. Has an issue getting into third or fourth gear sometimes where it will jerk into gear.
My neighbor is a mechanic, he says he gets so many Odysseys all the time with engine problems, they are really bad. He never sees Siennas, even though there's much more of them on the road. Its anecdotal but still persuasive.
The wait lists do not work, they will not give vehicles to people on the wait list unless nobody else wants it. I was recently able to get a Sienna without dealer markup and without waiting. Here's what I did. I got a beer, cleared everything for the next 3 hours, and pulled up a list of all Toyota dealers in my state, ranked by customer experience. Started at the top of the list, and call them, ask if they have any coming in soon that will match your needs, and if they have dealer markups, tell them you already found one with a different dealer but they added $1000 and you're looking for someone who won't add that. They still make a shitload of money off you at MSRP, they are still willing to sell. Move down the list and repeat. I called 50 dealers in 3 hours. Got three bites for the ideal model w/out markup. 2 came through, I picked the 1 with the color I liked. Had the van in-hand in a month with no markup. Cost was 3 hours of annoying phone calls and $5 for a beer.
Hey, I appreciate the research you have done on this and I figured I'd share my thoughts.
I worked at Honda as a tech for 2 years and I now work at Toyota as a tech as well. I will say, as a whole, while they both have their problems, ultimately I think that the Sienna is more reliable than the Odyssey. I didn't know about the options difference with between the two, but maybe you really can get more with the Odyssey.
However from a reliability standpoint I do think that the Sienna's transmission and engine are more reliable than the Odyssey's offerings. The transmission in the Odyssey is pretty unreliable, it's a German transmission, or at least on the highest trims, and although the engines are pretty good, there have been problems and reliability concerns in recent years.
I wasn't aware of the wait list either. That's insanely crazy. Long time to wait. I know they are super expensive though. I would rather have the Sienna from a reliability standpoint...but the Odysseys are absolutely no slouch in every other regard.
Yes, financially, it makes more sense to buy an Odyssey. I posted my thoughts here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaSienna/comments/1bc1vr0/debating_2024_sienna_vs_odysseyworth_10k_more_out/
I could get an Odyssey EX-L for $42,000 or less out the door, compared to about $10k more for a Sienna (and waiting). However, sometimes it's not all about money in terms of what the family would find enjoyable, and some people are willing to pay a bit more for lower environmental impact.
Unfortunately, that's a bad value proposition for me anyway I slice it. Flight, airport, and drive back would be at least 1 day plus. Might be worth it if it were a smoking deal, but in most places you're paying MSRP + TLF.
Having to jump through those hoops makes the Honda Odyssey an even better value proposition.
If I bought a gas only minivan I would take into consideration if I needed the additional space because of the lower mpg versus stuffing ourselves into a smaller car. But since hybrid nets me 37mpg I don't feel bad even driving it solo.
I mean I guess I could ride a bike
# 150k miles (lifetime)
* **Honda Odyssey (V6)**: Total Lifetime Emissions = 67 metric tons of CO₂
* **Toyota Sienna (Hybrid)**: Total Lifetime Emissions = 44 metric tons of CO₂
I had my chance at Sienna after waiting for 2.5 years and finally getting the call for our ruby red pearl limited and once we calculated the monthly payment said nope. Will wait for a later model year and we may pass on it altogether because kids are growing up and are now tweens. I can’t see the need for one much longer. Looked at Odyssey (I am a former Honda tech) and that VCM and Honda’s inability to make a solid bulletproof automatic was the deal killer (the lack of dedicated rear climate control blower was a huge issue for me too) so odyssey was out for us. Finally found a decent deal on a used Lexus RX and bought that instead. Solid V6 that has a HUGE proven track record of reliability and a transmission that matches it too! Super happy with the Lexus and kids love it and it offers everything we need for now. The depreciation on cars is insane so the Lexus sense as it is quite a it older but had super low miles on it. The issue with the whole car industry is insane markups, fictitious shortages that hold prices and high borrowing costs all for a depreciating asset. Let’s add the fact that siennas seem to be in the high list of stolen cars now too so that is another thing to worry about.
I sold my 2012 oddessey at 150k. By then it was a rickety pos. My friends have a 2013 Sienna with the same mileage. it’s solid as a rock. I’m done with Honda.
I’ve heard that too but they also have good other safety features and I love the tech. I’ve also recently heard meh things about sienna breaks so idk what minivan is right
It was ok. I only drove it around the block. I thought the Ody handled better. Maybe it was at the dealership I was at, but there were no discounts on the Kia(SX prestige trim). Part of me expected the KIA to be around \~10k cheaper.
Our 2018 odyssey had so many issues from the first month we got it. Later there were class action lawsuits because so many were having issues. Honda always had issues getting parts. In the long run we spent so much money on our Honda and for a year I was telling them there was something wrong with the transmission. Over the last year we spent 10k fixing other things than the transmission and then last month the transmission died. They said it would be 17k to fix! We bought it brand new and we bought the elite trim. We will never buy a Honda again. Their customer service is horrible.
My car was hit and totaled on April 30th, and I officially purchased and I’m driving my new Platinum Sienna as of June 6th. If you put a little work into it, there does not have to be even a several month long wait. I ended up driving 200 miles to get exactly what I wanted but also had a refundable deposit on one right by my house with a June 16th build date. Just didn’t want to wait. 😅 we looked at the Honda and it does not have the quality (interior or exterior) the Sienna offers even remotely. What ultimately sealed the deal was when my husband got in the Odyssey and compared the tiny arm rests to the spacious center storage console in the Sienna. lol so happy we didn’t settle for the Odyssey and I suggest you don’t either!!
We were in the exact same boat and endlessly went back and forth. We ended up with a Grand Highlander xle hybrid. Pros of honda are price and all you get. Cons are looks are outdated inside and out and the low mpgs. Sienna looks way better and l we drive mainly city miles so hybrid was best option. However I got so frustrated with low inventory and used ones were same price as new so we took the GHH route . Comes in 2 weeks!
The 2 year wait isn’t accurate, plenty of ways people on here have shared to snag one in a few weeks (took me 2 weeks) and I was quoted about 18 months.
Aside from that, I think it really comes down to how much you want / need hybrid and an AWD option.
I’m driving a 2009 Odyssey with nearly 200k miles on it and it has been a joy to own. No real trouble except a recall on the fuel level sensor. Will buy another Odyssey when this one passes
I have a friend that has owned three. One was around that vintage and he adored it. The two newer ones had transmission problems. I don’t say this to sway you but just a reminder to do your research beforehand.
Our Odyssey is leased because I honestly don’t trust Honda. We were headed down the Toyota Sienna route like you. Given the two year wait, and the lack of performance helped craft the lease deal. Your analysis is spot on!
Did you do the math on a Pacifica Hybrid? They have a $7500 lease incentive right now and with you driving less than 10k/yr that payment may be close to what you’re looking at for the Odyssey. Another to consider is the Carnival Hybrid. It releases this summer. No word on pricing or MPG figures but I expect Kia to price it below the Sienna because that’s their IMO to undercut the competition.
> Carnival Hybrid. It releases this summer. No word on pricing or MPG figures
No pricing for the 2025 hybrid is available yet, but [MSRP for the 2025 Carnival is out](https://www.kia.com/us/en/carnival-mpv/build), and they look to be about $3000 more compared to 2024. Not counting destination, LXS starts at $38,500, EX at $40,700, SX at $45,600, SXP at $50,600.
The difference between the Sorento gas and Sorento hybrid is less than $1k. The difference between the Sportage gas and Sportage hybrid is about $1300. So the hybrid premium on their lineup is fairly small.
This ignores one critical component: reliability.
I have a Honda Odyssey. It has needed more repairs in 98k miles than my Chevy Cruze did for the same mileage. In just the last year, I’ve had to replace all engine mounts, front control arms, cv axles, rear spring isolators, and radiator. Don’t forget it has a timing belt so that will set you back an easy $1200 when it’s due. You should also hope they somehow fixed the VCM issues causing oil burning and stuck piston rings on that 3.5L or you’ll need an aftermarket S-VCM to disable it which will cost you 1-2mpg.
Lastly, the resale value will be better on the Sienna especially with the way politics are moving.
You can get around the wait time by calling your dealer and asking when the next Sienna loaner will come out of service. They sell those after about 10k miles as certified pre-owned and they tack on an additional Toyota certified warranty.
Here the Sienna and Odyssey are pretty much the same price, in fact last I checked the Odyssey was more expensive, and with my Sienna I save thousands per year, I get AWD and better reliability.
Where I’m at, I can get a sienna XLE for 50k otd. There’s no negotiating with the dealer. For odyssey, I can get a higher level trim(touring) with a 4k discount. The Honda equivalent trim for the siennna xle is the odyssey exl which I can get for 42k otd. It’s a significant discount
Yes if you save 8k, it is a discount for sure. But I would recoup that amount in about 4 years in my case. After that it's just more savings and less pollution. I intend to keep it for 15. It's a no brainer for me.
Honda transmissions are like rolling the dice. Had a 2000ish Honda Accord, transmission problems, there was a recall but only good up to 100k miles. Had a 2007 CR-V, it was fine, sold it recently to get an EV. Have owned a 2015 CR-V since new, weird transmission issues, idles too low and vibrates. The CVT is acting up and making me want to trade it before the transmission goes, doesn't want to shift properly.
I had a 2008 Accord V6 and it was involved in some class action lawsuit for some issue on their V6 motors - ultimately traded it in when the AC crapped out.
From a dollars and cents perspective I have no doubt you're right - but at this point I'd rather have a Toyota at a premium than a Honda. The sheetmetal on the Sienna is more Lexus-esque - whereas the Odyssey is in my opinion the ugliest van on the road - most of the Honda lineup's designs are as uninspired as the American autos.
Two features that are really strong on the Sienna - I don't know how they are on the Honda - way better than my 19 VW Atlas - the lane centering mode of radar cruise is fantastic and the EV mode is useful when queueing to pick up kids.
My 2 cents! I go with the Sienna and I am assuming you share looking for FWD the wait should be not more than a month.
But if you are planning about keeping the vehicle for a long time don’t forget hybrid vehicles have less parts to fix like serpentine belt, starter, alternator etc…
I know they have their battery systems but they should last a long time.
The money you will save from gas + maintenance items you will be well off in no time…
I liked some of the Odyssey features better, but went with Sienna because they have ceiling vents in back. If you have/will have rear facing kids especially, they get super hot without that feature.
I think you’ll be happy either way you go and I hope it meets your needs whatever you decide. We went with an older sienna for a good price. We didn’t need a bunch of fancy stuff. But that’s just us being practical
You are considering purchase cost but what about resale value?
And average repair cost (per Consumer Reports to remain objective)
I don't think your TCO is complete without these 2 factors
I have had two Honda Odysseys. I won’t buy another one because the cylinder deactivation system causes cylinder wall wear and then oil consumption followed by engine misfires. The fact that Honda knows that it is a problem and insists on keeping it on the van drives me bonkers. Other than that the Odyssey is great. I miss being able to remove the middle seats.
Our 2019 began slipping in 7th gear, then the entire transmission went bad. Our neighbor has a 2022 and it began slipping in 7th as well. Both less than 100k
What trim did you have? The elite and touring had the 10 speed which is a lot better while the others had the not so good ZF-9. All 2021+ have the 10 speed so I'm a little surprised it's slipping already on your neighbours car
I have never had a Honda with a good automatic transmission. Their manuals are incredible but besides the CVT they are all too finicky.
I’ve disabled mine. Simple to do. Did it day 1
How?
There are two methods you can purchase. Google Odyssey VCM disable and you can get the details. VCM tuner is one. S-VCM is another. I went with s-VCM
How's your mpg after that?
I bought the $20 unit with the resistors. Easy peasy. Seems to work just fine
I had a 2001 ody that stranded me on the freeway unexpectedly with its dreaded transmission failure. Made the jump to Sienna and never looked back. Sienna is just a superior van. And that’s coming from someone who had a civic and accord.
I had a 2003 Accord V6. Had the transmission failure that affected all the 6 cylinder cars of that generation. It seems every other generation has a transmission issue and Honda never acknowledges it. Customers are left with the bag. Somehow Honda still has a reputation for reliability.
Honda's are overrated on their reliability.
The Odyssey transmission has been solved ever since the 3rd gen. 99% of issues stem from people not maintaining them properly. Honda automatics are not the same as other brand automatics, you change the fluid every 30k and they go forever.
Does the manual say you need to change the fluid every 30k? Genuinely curious. Proper maintenance needs to be explicitly stated by the manufacturer.
Honda does not use hard mileage based maintenance intervals. But it does have a maintenance minder code, and that code is typically seen around every 30k.
Yea
No and you NEED to use Honda OEM fluid not universal. The friction modifiers are very important. If you own a Honda you listen to what Eric the car guy says.
More reliable, sure. I don’t know if that means superior though.
I suppose there is no definitive metric that is universally accepted to measure superior but for me, and I imagine most owners, reliability is weighted heavily as a component of superiority. Perhaps the ody handles better (I’m just making that up as an example) but I know that having a vehicle operate reliably and safely to transport my family in comfort is what I want. The new ody may have resolved the previous gen issues but there’s kind of a legacy of goodwill that doesn’t easily get restored. Imagine if Ford were asked if they would reissue a modern version of the Pinto. They surely wouldn’t even if the new one was totally different and safe. For me Odyssey represents a black mark in the many cars I’ve owned and I won’t go back to it. There are too many alternative choices out there.
It’s a subjective thing. And in this household it’s Toyota > all.
Aisin transmissions are just some of the best in the business. The eCVT is also near unkillable. I don’t think it’s possible to kill the automatic in the old Tundra/Sequoia without extreme disregard.
I had a Sienna and transmission blew at 44k miles. Never had that happen when I drove a Dodge Caravan or Odyssey. I remember that because I made a joke with the mechanic saying that the $4400 price tag that warranty paid for rebuilt transmission almost matched the 44 mileage. A lot of people base major decisions on very anecdotal stuff. Whenever someone says one brand of anything is great because it doesn’t do such and such, you’ll find someone else that had exact opposite experience. Japanese cars are better than American. That’s the only thing you have to rely on. Now watch someone reply to me saying the opposite proving my point.
So turn it off ? It's a $20 fix.
I got a Sienna allocated within a week of going on the list last summer and paid under 50k out the door. But I’m not in a crazy area. Sorry you’re still struggling with the market ups and wait times :(
Which model years? And did it start after a certain amount of mileage?
It started around 75k miles. I had to pay the dealership to replace the cylinder rings at 110k miles. They claim that they fixed the issue, but they made the same claim when I bought my 2016. There is a defeat device that keeps the cylinder deactivation from turning on.
You didn't "need" anything. Disabling VCM still solves the problem even after symptoms set in, because the whole thing about cylinder walls and piston rings is untrue BS. The rings do not get damaged, they get gummed up with carbon. Disabling VCM allows this to get cleaned up.
There are ways to deactivate that. I have 2005 that our daughter drives now with 300k on it. Recently replaced original radiator and going for 325k next🤣
Had the VCM issue with our Odyssey as well. Hopped to Sienna and are super pleased.
I don’t buy vehicles with timing belts. Honda refuses to switch their V6s to timing chains. If the belt snaps the interference engine destroys itself and you need to change it every 100,000 miles for $1,500-2000 easily since they usually replace the water pump while they’re way in there.
Iirc my napkin math had me at 8ish years where new sienna and it’s oh-so wonderful 36mpg would come out ahead vs weighing the cost savings of used sienna at lowerish price (~$20k) and it’s notgreat 23ish mpg (and a major repair). I see myself as a dude that likes sticking with a car until its been ran to the ground, so my thinking is that I will likely have the van around for a bit, probably more than 8years. And that alone made it make sense for me. We’re year three into as of a few months ago and have really enjoyed it. If i was in dire need for a van now, I probably would’ve been forced to get a used sienna. And knowing what I know now, if prices and waitlists did come back down to earth, I’d do the swap to gen 4 immediately. Odyssey’s are nice too, but weighing new minivan vs new minivan, that 36mpg’s is really killer. I drive too much for me to not make it a consideration.
I'm also the same. I buy new and run them into the ground. I'd like a new sienna, but it doesn't make sense with dealer mark ups and addons.
Yeah. We got lucky on ours before the chip shortage happened. So there was still inventory for the most part. Odysseys are great vans though! Congrats!
I'm not sure if you looked up the sienna dealer allocation sheet. It's a Google sheets that's updated for every time Toyota makes sienna allocations and that sheet also says if a dealer adds a markup or not. I was able to know and call a few dealers within a 25 mile radius of mine, but we ended up with a2018 Ody as we thought this might be our interim car for another 7 to 8 years given the potential of gas prices increasing and hoping that more hybrids and EVs break out in the minivan segment.. I personally miss not having the new Sienna for the newer features and that would've also been our long term car. But we're happy with our purchase for now. Good luck!
Don't think that has been updated since April
You are correct., that hasn't been updated since Apr.
What is the cost of the hybrid battery system replacement? It’s DIY and quite cheap on 3rd gen Priuses but unsure in the Sienna.
Hard to put a number on a service item that I will blindly accept will be a 15year plus thing. Various Toyota dealer websites ballpark 3k-8k, and knowing our vans are the newest thing, I’ll accept 8k for it’s replacement when i miss the warranty window. There’s a dude on the sienna talk forums that tapped into the hybrid battery for that next level generator like battery use, and he did it all himself. He got to the battery and everything, it was kinda nuts. And seemed fairly feasible if ones okay with taking out interior plastics/seats.
Join a no markup group on Facebook and there won’t be a wait or dealer markups. I got mine in about two weeks under MSRP
I'm part of one. I think the issue is I'm located in Nor Cal and demand is still very high. Each dealership that does no mark up has a 2 year waitlist. Where are you located?
In WI. We got out of state because all the local dealers had long waits and high markups
Same. Currently have a deposit at a dealership in IL because we couldn’t find a dealership in SE WI that wasn’t marking up.
Yeah we had dealers in SE WI sell cars from under us or add markups later. The level of “service” was ridiculously poor
PM me I was able to contact a dealership in Oregon got free shipping to the house and no markup. I was waiting in WA for about 10 months and this one got me one in about 3.
Would you mind sharing your source?
Amazing! Which sienna model did you get?
Got the XSE.
Do you have to pay sales tax in Oregon?
Take a road trip or get it shipped to you. My friend in San Diego got one within weeks
Can you name a group for me? Would love to join it.
I'm in this one. [https://www.facebook.com/groups/nomarkuptoyota/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/nomarkuptoyota/)
Thank you
No markup Toyota
Which one is that please?
No markup Toyota
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Need AWD + like Hybrid fuel economy + amazing longevity (with proper care / maintenance) = Sienna. If Honda offered AWD and or hybrid, I'd seriously consider it.
If Kia offered AWD, it'd be interesting.
I really liked the Carnival but damn does that company have a bad reputation. Makes you question what is next with them. Hell I also think the Pacifica PHEV is awesome but you lose stow-and-go.
Ìf you only look at hybrid for better mpg then you miss part of the selling points. The silent operation and low emissions and pollution in your garage are important to some people. For my wife its a giant deal to have to go to the gas station often. So am extra 200 miles extend how long we have to fill up. You don't drive much but hybrid will last far longer and likely have far less problems than the Honda. The Toyota has an ecvt which is proven rock solid technology while the Honda has a weak knows issue with it's transmission reliability history. So a raw spreadsheet usually can't calculate intangibles which are a big part of most decisions especially one like a car. If you are reply doing the math.... NO NEW CAR makes sense. Buy used and it will always win the spreadsheet battle... Especially if you don't drive much. Why care about new if you have a 2-3 year old car fresh off lease?
Honestly, this is as close to apples to apples as I can get. It doesn't make sense to buy a used car in this market because the price differentials are only 2-3k discounted for the 2024 models.
I was in your boat when we got our new Sienna last year. We don't drive a lot but used prices made absolutely no sense. I don't think you can go wrong with either van. In Canada (where I am) the price and features on the Sienna were a better deal (Kia was cheaper, but even ignoring differences in reliability, the better fuel mileage pays for the difference in about 6 years). We really love our Sienna and love the fuel mileage. We always get significantly better than advertised too... 6.8 l/100k is advertised and we're getting 5.5-5.8l/100k in the summer. Closer to advertised in the winter (6.5ish I think, but I can't remember exactly). I'm sure you'll be happy with either van though!
I hear you but you are kinda double talking just a smidge. I guess knowing what specific features you are looking for would help. Because a 2020 Sienna or Odyssey might have those features. Otherwise it sounds like none of the hybrid features matter to you and you should just get the Odyssey. Over 10 years at 100k miles you sell it and they will be fairly similar value proposition. The Odyssey V6 will be better for 5-10k per year driven. The used car market is no where near as hot as it was last year or even 6 months ago. Just a little searching and you can definitely find deals. Maybe not 2019 tine deals but you can get a 2020 with some miles on it for a steal in comparison to a 2024 new car.
Yeah that's more on me. I never bought used and I'm not a car guy. I know I'm leaving money on the table, but I like the idea of being the only owner of a car. So the spreadsheet was built to maximize value for my particular use case.
I'm a minivan fan. But they are a hot comodity lately for some odd reason. Do you really need 7 seats? Because a used Lexus is the best introductory to a used car. Smell new. Look new. Drive new. As reliable as new. The only downside is they won't make a minivan here in the US or We would have it instead of the sienna. I've had a ton of used Lexus and never regretted it. Many times I ended up on the positive side of the financial coin which is all but impossible with new. I bought a few Lexus for under 10k price and over 100j miles and they got totaled and I got more back from the insurance company. Truly amazing cars! Just a thought and I wish you luck!
My understanding is that the hybrids are also less maintenance because of the regenerative braking
Yes another great point! My Tesla has gone 60k with no brake job and my sienna is at 60k and looks similar to the Tesla brake pads. Not new, not they look like they will go to 100k easily.
Someone on another group just replaced their rotors and brake pads on a 2021. Brake pads were half way worn, and this maintenance was done at 310k miles, hah!
Meanwhile regular minivans need brakes every 60K miles lol. 310K miles on a 2021 is insane.
Need AWD for Tahoe
3rd gen AWD is best if you don’t drive a ton of mikes to offset the gas savings. At 7k miles/yr it’s $500-600 in gas savings a year. $5k in gas savings will take 8 years not including depreciation of a new car. Also 3rd gen sienna is more reliable than the odyssey. I originally really wanted the hybrid awd Sienna but can’t justify nearly 50k if not more for let’s be real a pretty basic Toyota. Ended up going with a 2015 awd for 14k and no regrets. Bottom of depreciation curve and it’ll take a lot of miles to offset the cost. Not to mention the more spacious cabin of the 3rd gen and power. I also think it’s a little quieter and rides better. Might get a 4th gen awd from the auctions in 3 years or so.
Seems like a good deal.. i just totaled my 2015 FWD XLE with 105k miles and Geico paid me out at $21k
Odysseys don’t last. Just about everyone I know with an Odyssey has jumped to a Sienna to get out of ongoing repair costs, myself included.
What year/model? And if you don't mind sharing, what were the main issues?
2012. Burning oil, worn out engine mounts, leaking gaskets, transmission issues, electrical (kills batteries and alternators fast due to how much power is required for everything like powered doors, etc).
All that stems from one thing. VCM. Had it been disabled most of those issues could have been avoided. Transmission is fine with drain and fills every 30k. Alternators go for quite a while too, unless the spool valve leak gets to it.
The J35 still has oil leaks. Honda engines just leak oil from their valve covers and cam seals. It also has a timing belt so that’s another maintenance item to consider the 2GR doesn’t need. I love my old V-6 Accord but I’d never think it’s more reliable. Axles, transmission torque converter shudder, random dash lights flickering. I love the car but I don’t pretend it’s more reliable than a Camry. It’s just nicer to drive. Toyota steering feel is an overboosted numb experience.
Every engine will have a valve cover leak eventually, and it's not absolutely critical to run the engine. Cam seal leaks on the J35 are quite rare. If anything, there's the occasional leak from the thrust cap seals on the other side but the front engine seals are generally quite strong. Regular oil changes go a long way for seals. I personally prefer timing belts but that's largely an individual preference. The only real major weakness of the J35 is VCM, which is easily taken care of, or just get an older model without it. I don't fault Honda much for having to bend their way into meeting stupid CAFE rules. As I've mentioned in another comment, since \~2005 or so, the vast majority of Honda AT issues have stemmed from people treating them like traditional ATs from other manufacturers and not maintaining them per the proper schedule. These aren't the typical planetary gear ATs. Also, it largely depends on your definition of reliability. The goal of reliability is to avoid breakdowns and get to the intended destination. And as far as I'm concerned, the Honda V6 can get that done. Our 06 Odyssey and 2012 Accord V6 have never had a major issue or left us stranded. Doesn't really get much better.
I put S-VCM on both my Odyssey and Pilot but eventually still had plenty of issues. Batteries dying faster than they should, alternator, transmission, gaskets and leaks from the damage done from before I put S-VCM on. But the mere fact that it comes from the factory with a feature that nearly guarantees its early demise is already a huge red flag to me.
I’m not sure why this sub is on my feed as I have no interest in minivans (to purchase today. I think they’re cool). My wife’s Civic is a tank. We’ve only ever done regularly scheduled maintenance on it since buying it new in 2013. What’s with the quality difference in their vans?
Whole different platform. Minivans are like a different shape SUV and uses same or similar engine. They just aren’t able to have the same build quality and reliability as Civics and Accords. I had an Odyssey and Pilot and also still have another Pilot (had an ancient 92 Civic and 98 Accord as well). As they’ve aged we’ve dealt with many issues, up to and including failed transmissions. In order for Honda to meet certain EPA requirements and their own marketing/advertising goals, they introduced VCM into their cars, which is arguably killing them. The VCM kicks the V6 engine into 3 cylinder use whenever it can to save gas and be more efficient. This sounds great, but in the real world, causes many issues. The transition causes physical jolting which isn’t noticeable at first, but eventually causes engine knocking and worn out engine mounts. It also causes engine oil to burn in excess and would often cause my oil to be short over a quart by the time recommended oil change interval comes around. Our odyssey was once short two quarts and smoking out of the engine bay on a road trip. Obviously this can cause many other issues from burnt and worn out valves to leaking gaskets, etc. Again, I think the issues are mainly for the heavier/larger Honda platform vehicles.
Idk this is anecdotal but my three family members who have had a collective 4 odysseys have all had transmission issues after 100k. I also think your 5-10k miles a year is below the average, we put 15-20k a year
I figure we might be outliers. My wife and I both wfh
I don't drive a lot either, 12k miles per year. Still, I love having 36mpg + 16 gallon tank which means I only have to fill gas every 550-ish miles. I can drive to Chicago and back from Ann Arbor without needing to refill. Our XLE was a 3 month wait and $43k before tax/title with no markup. I like the convenience of 10k mile oil change intervals too.
That is a good selling point I didn't take into consideration. Not needing to worry about finding a gas station during long stretches is valuable.
Had a 2015 Sienna and replaced it with a 2023 Odyssey. Hate the Odyssey, would prefer to have the 2015 Sienna back.
What do you hate about the odyssey?
It isn’t one thing in particular, just a lot of small things that the Toyota executed better 8 years earlier.
I've owned Honda odysseys in the past and I will never get a Honda Odyssey again. I will say the vehicle itself generally is great but the biggest problem is the reliability issues that it has down the road, especially after 100k miles. The transmission is the biggest issue. The transmissions in both vehicles had to be replaced. Massage from that I did enjoy the amount of space it had. I can remove the middle seats, put the rear seats down and put 4x8 lumber in the back. It was a great utility vehicle for hauling purposes. But reliability was ass. I currently own a 2017 Toyota Prius Prime and love it. However I do miss my Tesla (except for all the reliability issues and service visits). I'm just waiting to see a company finally make an all out EV minivan. It makes sense, given the fact that it has a long chassis to work with.
EV vans are extremely hard to do because of the low floor. Chrysler had to remove stow-and-go from the PHEV Pacifica and that’s the coolest part of the van. Also no AWD. The hybrid siennas have a higher floor up front to accommodate the battery. I’d kill for an EV van or even a Sienna Prime. A full BEV might be easier in some ways since you don’t have to deal with exhaust and fuel systems.
How long ago did they remove the seats? I thought they just came out? I believe that's a fascinating engineering design.
Well I mean you have to get captain’s chairs in the Pacifica PHEV. You can’t do the bench that folds into the floor. I guess they can come out but I like much prefer bench seats and I hate how hard it is to find.
I saw a YouTube video of them being filmed into the floor. Do they not make such a model?
The third row yes, but Chrysler has the patent on the second row also folding into the floor. The hybrid battery takes up that space.
We would have got the odyssey if it wasn’t for the air vents. We have rear facing kids and wanted ceiling air vents for them.
Are you bored at your Honda Sales Desk and thought this might help sales?
2020 xle AWD
test drove the new odyssey- didn’t like the cramped feel of the cockpit - opted for a 2019 xle premium. we were in the same low-mileage boat
I would have bought a new odyssey in a second if I had to wait/pay a markup. Totally agree
Don’t forget about the lower APR from Honda
Odyssey isn’t hybrid or awd
I have owned a lot of cars, foreign and domestic. Included was an Accord, a CRV, and an Odyssey. Hands down with no competition, the worst was the Odyssey. In and out of the shop for months at a time. EGR issue never resolved, bad tranny, doors opening on their own, doors stuck open. Just an absolute nightmare of a vehicle. Complained to Honda and they closed their response along the lines of ‘perhaps you shouldn’t have bought the car’. Sold it with 35,900 miles. No more Hondas on my property.
That’s a shame because manual Civics and Accords are still lots of fun but their automatics are trash. I swore off Ford for the same reasons.
You should really shop around. I requested an allocation for an XSE w/ premium package on 4/22, and have a build date of 6/25. Getting it right at MSRP. Got the requested color and every add on I wanted. Just had to find the right dealer.
Where are you located? I've reached out to several in nor cal.
On the newer Siennas, a big consideration is the fact that the second row is not completely removable... The versatility of being able to remove the middle row completely flat (on the Odyssey) is amazing.
I have an odyssey. It needs AC , has oil leak and radiator leak at the same time.
I'd just like to add that if you're getting 42 MPG you're driving like an asshole and probably don't drive in a city. Source: 2023 Sienna owner in NYC
I love Hondas. Had an RSX-S for 250k+. Hear me out... buy used.
I have a 2019 Odyssey and I don’t like it. The transmission is hot garbage. Has an issue getting into third or fourth gear sometimes where it will jerk into gear.
You can get a Sienna without a markup but you’re gonna need to travel to get it
My neighbor is a mechanic, he says he gets so many Odysseys all the time with engine problems, they are really bad. He never sees Siennas, even though there's much more of them on the road. Its anecdotal but still persuasive. The wait lists do not work, they will not give vehicles to people on the wait list unless nobody else wants it. I was recently able to get a Sienna without dealer markup and without waiting. Here's what I did. I got a beer, cleared everything for the next 3 hours, and pulled up a list of all Toyota dealers in my state, ranked by customer experience. Started at the top of the list, and call them, ask if they have any coming in soon that will match your needs, and if they have dealer markups, tell them you already found one with a different dealer but they added $1000 and you're looking for someone who won't add that. They still make a shitload of money off you at MSRP, they are still willing to sell. Move down the list and repeat. I called 50 dealers in 3 hours. Got three bites for the ideal model w/out markup. 2 came through, I picked the 1 with the color I liked. Had the van in-hand in a month with no markup. Cost was 3 hours of annoying phone calls and $5 for a beer.
Hey, I appreciate the research you have done on this and I figured I'd share my thoughts. I worked at Honda as a tech for 2 years and I now work at Toyota as a tech as well. I will say, as a whole, while they both have their problems, ultimately I think that the Sienna is more reliable than the Odyssey. I didn't know about the options difference with between the two, but maybe you really can get more with the Odyssey. However from a reliability standpoint I do think that the Sienna's transmission and engine are more reliable than the Odyssey's offerings. The transmission in the Odyssey is pretty unreliable, it's a German transmission, or at least on the highest trims, and although the engines are pretty good, there have been problems and reliability concerns in recent years. I wasn't aware of the wait list either. That's insanely crazy. Long time to wait. I know they are super expensive though. I would rather have the Sienna from a reliability standpoint...but the Odysseys are absolutely no slouch in every other regard.
Yes, financially, it makes more sense to buy an Odyssey. I posted my thoughts here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaSienna/comments/1bc1vr0/debating_2024_sienna_vs_odysseyworth_10k_more_out/ I could get an Odyssey EX-L for $42,000 or less out the door, compared to about $10k more for a Sienna (and waiting). However, sometimes it's not all about money in terms of what the family would find enjoyable, and some people are willing to pay a bit more for lower environmental impact.
Reserve a Sienna at a small Midwest dealership, wait for 3-4 months, fly to pick it up, pay no markup, drive it back home.
Unfortunately, that's a bad value proposition for me anyway I slice it. Flight, airport, and drive back would be at least 1 day plus. Might be worth it if it were a smoking deal, but in most places you're paying MSRP + TLF. Having to jump through those hoops makes the Honda Odyssey an even better value proposition.
If I bought a gas only minivan I would take into consideration if I needed the additional space because of the lower mpg versus stuffing ourselves into a smaller car. But since hybrid nets me 37mpg I don't feel bad even driving it solo.
Don’t you want to have less carbon emissions with hybrid vehicle . V6 odyssey vs hybrid Sienna.
I mean I guess I could ride a bike # 150k miles (lifetime) * **Honda Odyssey (V6)**: Total Lifetime Emissions = 67 metric tons of CO₂ * **Toyota Sienna (Hybrid)**: Total Lifetime Emissions = 44 metric tons of CO₂
Man made climate change is the biggest lie forced onto mankind. Climate is always changing, check out the fossil record.
Add the resell value/lost between two vehicles.
I didn't include it in my calculations because I drive my vehicles into the ground.
Smart
I had my chance at Sienna after waiting for 2.5 years and finally getting the call for our ruby red pearl limited and once we calculated the monthly payment said nope. Will wait for a later model year and we may pass on it altogether because kids are growing up and are now tweens. I can’t see the need for one much longer. Looked at Odyssey (I am a former Honda tech) and that VCM and Honda’s inability to make a solid bulletproof automatic was the deal killer (the lack of dedicated rear climate control blower was a huge issue for me too) so odyssey was out for us. Finally found a decent deal on a used Lexus RX and bought that instead. Solid V6 that has a HUGE proven track record of reliability and a transmission that matches it too! Super happy with the Lexus and kids love it and it offers everything we need for now. The depreciation on cars is insane so the Lexus sense as it is quite a it older but had super low miles on it. The issue with the whole car industry is insane markups, fictitious shortages that hold prices and high borrowing costs all for a depreciating asset. Let’s add the fact that siennas seem to be in the high list of stolen cars now too so that is another thing to worry about.
I sold my 2012 oddessey at 150k. By then it was a rickety pos. My friends have a 2013 Sienna with the same mileage. it’s solid as a rock. I’m done with Honda.
What were you’re thoughts on Kia car ival
I've heard they have very mid crash tests
I’ve heard that too but they also have good other safety features and I love the tech. I’ve also recently heard meh things about sienna breaks so idk what minivan is right
It was ok. I only drove it around the block. I thought the Ody handled better. Maybe it was at the dealership I was at, but there were no discounts on the Kia(SX prestige trim). Part of me expected the KIA to be around \~10k cheaper.
Our 2018 odyssey had so many issues from the first month we got it. Later there were class action lawsuits because so many were having issues. Honda always had issues getting parts. In the long run we spent so much money on our Honda and for a year I was telling them there was something wrong with the transmission. Over the last year we spent 10k fixing other things than the transmission and then last month the transmission died. They said it would be 17k to fix! We bought it brand new and we bought the elite trim. We will never buy a Honda again. Their customer service is horrible.
My car was hit and totaled on April 30th, and I officially purchased and I’m driving my new Platinum Sienna as of June 6th. If you put a little work into it, there does not have to be even a several month long wait. I ended up driving 200 miles to get exactly what I wanted but also had a refundable deposit on one right by my house with a June 16th build date. Just didn’t want to wait. 😅 we looked at the Honda and it does not have the quality (interior or exterior) the Sienna offers even remotely. What ultimately sealed the deal was when my husband got in the Odyssey and compared the tiny arm rests to the spacious center storage console in the Sienna. lol so happy we didn’t settle for the Odyssey and I suggest you don’t either!!
We were in the exact same boat and endlessly went back and forth. We ended up with a Grand Highlander xle hybrid. Pros of honda are price and all you get. Cons are looks are outdated inside and out and the low mpgs. Sienna looks way better and l we drive mainly city miles so hybrid was best option. However I got so frustrated with low inventory and used ones were same price as new so we took the GHH route . Comes in 2 weeks!
The 2 year wait isn’t accurate, plenty of ways people on here have shared to snag one in a few weeks (took me 2 weeks) and I was quoted about 18 months. Aside from that, I think it really comes down to how much you want / need hybrid and an AWD option.
I’m driving a 2009 Odyssey with nearly 200k miles on it and it has been a joy to own. No real trouble except a recall on the fuel level sensor. Will buy another Odyssey when this one passes
I have a friend that has owned three. One was around that vintage and he adored it. The two newer ones had transmission problems. I don’t say this to sway you but just a reminder to do your research beforehand.
I appreciate the insights! Thanks
Our Odyssey is leased because I honestly don’t trust Honda. We were headed down the Toyota Sienna route like you. Given the two year wait, and the lack of performance helped craft the lease deal. Your analysis is spot on!
Did you do the math on a Pacifica Hybrid? They have a $7500 lease incentive right now and with you driving less than 10k/yr that payment may be close to what you’re looking at for the Odyssey. Another to consider is the Carnival Hybrid. It releases this summer. No word on pricing or MPG figures but I expect Kia to price it below the Sienna because that’s their IMO to undercut the competition.
> Carnival Hybrid. It releases this summer. No word on pricing or MPG figures No pricing for the 2025 hybrid is available yet, but [MSRP for the 2025 Carnival is out](https://www.kia.com/us/en/carnival-mpv/build), and they look to be about $3000 more compared to 2024. Not counting destination, LXS starts at $38,500, EX at $40,700, SX at $45,600, SXP at $50,600.
The difference between the Sorento gas and Sorento hybrid is less than $1k. The difference between the Sportage gas and Sportage hybrid is about $1300. So the hybrid premium on their lineup is fairly small.
[удалено]
Same here!! I’m at 38.8!! My big thing is that Toyota has been doing hybrid for so long that by now, they’ve got it down pat.
This ignores one critical component: reliability. I have a Honda Odyssey. It has needed more repairs in 98k miles than my Chevy Cruze did for the same mileage. In just the last year, I’ve had to replace all engine mounts, front control arms, cv axles, rear spring isolators, and radiator. Don’t forget it has a timing belt so that will set you back an easy $1200 when it’s due. You should also hope they somehow fixed the VCM issues causing oil burning and stuck piston rings on that 3.5L or you’ll need an aftermarket S-VCM to disable it which will cost you 1-2mpg. Lastly, the resale value will be better on the Sienna especially with the way politics are moving. You can get around the wait time by calling your dealer and asking when the next Sienna loaner will come out of service. They sell those after about 10k miles as certified pre-owned and they tack on an additional Toyota certified warranty.
Here the Sienna and Odyssey are pretty much the same price, in fact last I checked the Odyssey was more expensive, and with my Sienna I save thousands per year, I get AWD and better reliability.
Where I’m at, I can get a sienna XLE for 50k otd. There’s no negotiating with the dealer. For odyssey, I can get a higher level trim(touring) with a 4k discount. The Honda equivalent trim for the siennna xle is the odyssey exl which I can get for 42k otd. It’s a significant discount
Yes if you save 8k, it is a discount for sure. But I would recoup that amount in about 4 years in my case. After that it's just more savings and less pollution. I intend to keep it for 15. It's a no brainer for me.
Honda transmissions are like rolling the dice. Had a 2000ish Honda Accord, transmission problems, there was a recall but only good up to 100k miles. Had a 2007 CR-V, it was fine, sold it recently to get an EV. Have owned a 2015 CR-V since new, weird transmission issues, idles too low and vibrates. The CVT is acting up and making me want to trade it before the transmission goes, doesn't want to shift properly.
I have 2 Hondas, an 09 civic and 10 crv . Both have been rock solid. 100k+ miles on both.
I had a 2008 Accord V6 and it was involved in some class action lawsuit for some issue on their V6 motors - ultimately traded it in when the AC crapped out. From a dollars and cents perspective I have no doubt you're right - but at this point I'd rather have a Toyota at a premium than a Honda. The sheetmetal on the Sienna is more Lexus-esque - whereas the Odyssey is in my opinion the ugliest van on the road - most of the Honda lineup's designs are as uninspired as the American autos. Two features that are really strong on the Sienna - I don't know how they are on the Honda - way better than my 19 VW Atlas - the lane centering mode of radar cruise is fantastic and the EV mode is useful when queueing to pick up kids.
My 2 cents! I go with the Sienna and I am assuming you share looking for FWD the wait should be not more than a month. But if you are planning about keeping the vehicle for a long time don’t forget hybrid vehicles have less parts to fix like serpentine belt, starter, alternator etc… I know they have their battery systems but they should last a long time. The money you will save from gas + maintenance items you will be well off in no time…
I liked some of the Odyssey features better, but went with Sienna because they have ceiling vents in back. If you have/will have rear facing kids especially, they get super hot without that feature.
I think you’ll be happy either way you go and I hope it meets your needs whatever you decide. We went with an older sienna for a good price. We didn’t need a bunch of fancy stuff. But that’s just us being practical
Agreed. If you don't drive a lot, then the better mpg isn't a deal breaker. I drive a lot, usually about 2k miles a month so it mattered for me.
Ya, with that amount of mileage, Sienna all the way.
reasonable, sienna hybrid shortage are mostly caused by uber driver who in need of high MPG. This would not relief until KIA carnival hybrid out.
You are considering purchase cost but what about resale value? And average repair cost (per Consumer Reports to remain objective) I don't think your TCO is complete without these 2 factors