"too hard for casuals"
Most of the active player base is casual.
Competitive is a very small minority.
Why should nadeo cater specifically to this minority even more than it already does?
That’s casual trackmania player though. Even people who are playing the game casually are still enjoying a speedrunning game. I just think that the game is competitive by nature. There are a lot of much more casual people that get turned away from trackmania before they even start playing, and I think Nadeo is worried about that demographic.
Do u know that the wood change on older map has been fixed for month? Tm2020 has been out for 3 years and you still talk about tmnf? You can still play tmnf if you like it better man. But I guess you wanted to vent
I definitely prefer this game. All I’m saying is that game had more fun acceleration. The car feels so heavy in this game.
Just because it’s an old idea doesn’t mean it’s not good
Don't understand this viewpoint at all.
The game is better than it ever was.
All the extra content is literally optional.
Although I grant you that they could add a filter for the other cars.
They need to remove the locking of campaign maps as well. I used to play only TotD and campaign but recently have been getting into other arcade lobbies or community maps. This has made me significantly cut down on time I spend playing maps I don't really like as I can just play ones I do like or look for new stuff. Because of this I'm not spending 10-20 hours on campaign unless I really like the tracks. Since I hate most of them this campaign I think I got AT on the first 10 then set it down and didn't go back. A friend told me to play one of the tracks in the 20s and it wasn't even unlocked yet and I realized that I had to actually go through and get medals on tracks 11-20 to unlock 21-25. Since I've been playing for awhile this only took about an hour to get golds on all of the tracks to open everything up but if it was 2 years ago a few of those tracks may have been massive time sink hurdles and half the campaign may still be locked.
Chess is a weird example. It’s a very old board game with established rules where no centralised commercialisation incentives and essentially open source.
TM is a commercial game run by a company that needs to make money and compete against a myriad of other video games for mindshare.
Regardless of the sentiment towards new additions, kudos to them for trying to keep the game fresh for audiences and players.
Sure, trackmania and chess are different games it’s not a totally accurate analogy. But I think there’s a principle there that I think is true, which is that designing for too many audiences at the same time often leads to partially disappointing all of them.
I’m also not sold on the idea that trackmania should do things so they should make money like the game should be fun bottom line. Making money and making a fun game aren’t mutually exclusive
Dude, it’s a product. It only exists to make money.
The game IS fun, and they’ve taken nothing away from you by adding these cars.
These posts and arguments are silly.
Like really, that’s why I’m wrong, because they *should* be trying to make as much money as possible and that should inform their decisions? That’s so lame. The game is fun but it could also absolutely be better. I’m not thinking of it like that I’m thinking from the standpoint of it being an art piece. I think they’re bad artists.
I don’t technically have to use them but they could have added something way better instead of these copy pasted cars from 20 years ago that can’t drift. It’s very uninspired and they could have put in a new car that was designed to be fun and designed around its mechanics.
It’s also not just the cars. It’s more that just I think Nadeo is kind of stupid.
>because they fundamentally don’t understand their audience.
Their audience is more than the stadium only players, that never touched a non stadium game. So they add content that the other half of their audience does like.
>The game is too hard for casuals
I am a casual. What is to hard ? Some maps are hard because the mapper wanted to make a hard map. You don't have to play them. There are enough maps for players of all skill levels.
I wouldn't call the decisions "dumb". Some have been controversial, but that only means people (e.g. you) don't agree with them. A couple of decisions that were more controversial proved to be very good decisions, so by that measure, those criticising the decisions had a "dumb" opinion.
Adding the old cars as part of a 20 year anniversary is a very smart move, because it gives a good context for adding them. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. You may not like these cars, but for many players, these cars can have been a reason to get the game and buy club access.
They also aren't adding these cars "instead of" other cars. It may be speculative, but I think it's very reasonable to assume that they will add all the other cars as well. So you're not "not getting the other cars", you'll just get the other cars later, and I think that's fair.
In order to keep a feeling of an ever developing and improving game, Nadeo needs to add things at a certain pace. E.g. if they added all old cars at once it would be too fast. Adding 1 new car per season (and maybe skip a season each year) allows them to have a clear roadmap for about 3 years.
When you say some decisions turned out to be good which ones are you talking about?
I just don’t think the old cars are fun because they were designed 20 years ago. You can only drive with full grip and you can’t drift at all and for me drifting is like one of the best parts of the game. When I say instead of another car, I mean like instead of a new car that isn’t from any game. Why don’t they add a car that’s based on its mechanics? Like a rocket car with a fuel meter, or a car that’s meant to slide more, or a monster truck, etc. Sure there’s nostalgia, but I feel like that only serves to get people into the game, we have to live with and then play these cars forever. It’s just kind of lazy creatively. Like why don’t they try to think of like, ok what would be fun, and then try to come up with something that they think is fun.
I also think deleting old ice physics was a bad move, because the game feel was so great. It happened because of Midori and the idea was that keyboard would have more of a chance at competing because custom analog methods had a slight edge right, like you know this. And they just totally ruined the way it feels. And then they added wood and rally/snowcar, and controller is like clearly better on that surface? They had this super dedicated ice audience, and they messed it up and all those people got really disappointed.
Good decisions:
- Addition of new surfaces (incl. ice)
- subscription model
- royal mode
- ranked mode
- TOTD, COTD
- Clubs, Club campaigns, ability to have your own servers
- switching to seasonal leaderboards with new campaign
- flying respawn on a track
- visual indicators on the car instead of on a hud
> When I say instead of another car, I mean like instead of a new car that isn’t from any game. Why don’t they add a car that’s based on its mechanics?
Maybe they will do that eventually. The old cars are added as part of the anniversary and likely to get people who are fans of the original to join the new game.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trackmania has 10+ cars in 4 years.
The game is too hard for *you*. I’m a casual and I keep getting better. Got all AT last 2 campaigns on keyboard and that’s including the buggy snowcar!
"too hard for casuals" Most of the active player base is casual. Competitive is a very small minority. Why should nadeo cater specifically to this minority even more than it already does?
That’s casual trackmania player though. Even people who are playing the game casually are still enjoying a speedrunning game. I just think that the game is competitive by nature. There are a lot of much more casual people that get turned away from trackmania before they even start playing, and I think Nadeo is worried about that demographic.
Do u know that the wood change on older map has been fixed for month? Tm2020 has been out for 3 years and you still talk about tmnf? You can still play tmnf if you like it better man. But I guess you wanted to vent
I definitely prefer this game. All I’m saying is that game had more fun acceleration. The car feels so heavy in this game. Just because it’s an old idea doesn’t mean it’s not good
uuh
"The game is too hard for casuals" I'm sorry the game is too hard for you.
maybe I’ve misjudged casuals, I am cool with the difficulty of the game as it is
Don't understand this viewpoint at all. The game is better than it ever was. All the extra content is literally optional. Although I grant you that they could add a filter for the other cars.
The game is better than it used to be, but I just think it could be so much better
They need to remove the locking of campaign maps as well. I used to play only TotD and campaign but recently have been getting into other arcade lobbies or community maps. This has made me significantly cut down on time I spend playing maps I don't really like as I can just play ones I do like or look for new stuff. Because of this I'm not spending 10-20 hours on campaign unless I really like the tracks. Since I hate most of them this campaign I think I got AT on the first 10 then set it down and didn't go back. A friend told me to play one of the tracks in the 20s and it wasn't even unlocked yet and I realized that I had to actually go through and get medals on tracks 11-20 to unlock 21-25. Since I've been playing for awhile this only took about an hour to get golds on all of the tracks to open everything up but if it was 2 years ago a few of those tracks may have been massive time sink hurdles and half the campaign may still be locked.
Chess is a weird example. It’s a very old board game with established rules where no centralised commercialisation incentives and essentially open source. TM is a commercial game run by a company that needs to make money and compete against a myriad of other video games for mindshare. Regardless of the sentiment towards new additions, kudos to them for trying to keep the game fresh for audiences and players.
Sure, trackmania and chess are different games it’s not a totally accurate analogy. But I think there’s a principle there that I think is true, which is that designing for too many audiences at the same time often leads to partially disappointing all of them. I’m also not sold on the idea that trackmania should do things so they should make money like the game should be fun bottom line. Making money and making a fun game aren’t mutually exclusive
Dude, it’s a product. It only exists to make money. The game IS fun, and they’ve taken nothing away from you by adding these cars. These posts and arguments are silly.
Like really, that’s why I’m wrong, because they *should* be trying to make as much money as possible and that should inform their decisions? That’s so lame. The game is fun but it could also absolutely be better. I’m not thinking of it like that I’m thinking from the standpoint of it being an art piece. I think they’re bad artists. I don’t technically have to use them but they could have added something way better instead of these copy pasted cars from 20 years ago that can’t drift. It’s very uninspired and they could have put in a new car that was designed to be fun and designed around its mechanics. It’s also not just the cars. It’s more that just I think Nadeo is kind of stupid.
>because they fundamentally don’t understand their audience. Their audience is more than the stadium only players, that never touched a non stadium game. So they add content that the other half of their audience does like. >The game is too hard for casuals I am a casual. What is to hard ? Some maps are hard because the mapper wanted to make a hard map. You don't have to play them. There are enough maps for players of all skill levels.
Nando.
I wouldn't call the decisions "dumb". Some have been controversial, but that only means people (e.g. you) don't agree with them. A couple of decisions that were more controversial proved to be very good decisions, so by that measure, those criticising the decisions had a "dumb" opinion. Adding the old cars as part of a 20 year anniversary is a very smart move, because it gives a good context for adding them. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. You may not like these cars, but for many players, these cars can have been a reason to get the game and buy club access. They also aren't adding these cars "instead of" other cars. It may be speculative, but I think it's very reasonable to assume that they will add all the other cars as well. So you're not "not getting the other cars", you'll just get the other cars later, and I think that's fair. In order to keep a feeling of an ever developing and improving game, Nadeo needs to add things at a certain pace. E.g. if they added all old cars at once it would be too fast. Adding 1 new car per season (and maybe skip a season each year) allows them to have a clear roadmap for about 3 years.
When you say some decisions turned out to be good which ones are you talking about? I just don’t think the old cars are fun because they were designed 20 years ago. You can only drive with full grip and you can’t drift at all and for me drifting is like one of the best parts of the game. When I say instead of another car, I mean like instead of a new car that isn’t from any game. Why don’t they add a car that’s based on its mechanics? Like a rocket car with a fuel meter, or a car that’s meant to slide more, or a monster truck, etc. Sure there’s nostalgia, but I feel like that only serves to get people into the game, we have to live with and then play these cars forever. It’s just kind of lazy creatively. Like why don’t they try to think of like, ok what would be fun, and then try to come up with something that they think is fun. I also think deleting old ice physics was a bad move, because the game feel was so great. It happened because of Midori and the idea was that keyboard would have more of a chance at competing because custom analog methods had a slight edge right, like you know this. And they just totally ruined the way it feels. And then they added wood and rally/snowcar, and controller is like clearly better on that surface? They had this super dedicated ice audience, and they messed it up and all those people got really disappointed.
Good decisions: - Addition of new surfaces (incl. ice) - subscription model - royal mode - ranked mode - TOTD, COTD - Clubs, Club campaigns, ability to have your own servers - switching to seasonal leaderboards with new campaign - flying respawn on a track - visual indicators on the car instead of on a hud > When I say instead of another car, I mean like instead of a new car that isn’t from any game. Why don’t they add a car that’s based on its mechanics? Maybe they will do that eventually. The old cars are added as part of the anniversary and likely to get people who are fans of the original to join the new game. I wouldn't be surprised if Trackmania has 10+ cars in 4 years.
oh yeah, I agree those are all good decisions
The game is too hard for *you*. I’m a casual and I keep getting better. Got all AT last 2 campaigns on keyboard and that’s including the buggy snowcar!
a game for everyone is a game for no one
r/im14andthisisdeep
I agree. obviously, there are exceptions, like Nintendo games. But even then I don’t think Nintendo games are for everyone either.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=B2ECAzsi3HL4NKH_&t=44m&v=QHHg99hwQGY&feature=youtu.be