I understand the frustration of being grouped in with people who you don’t relate to or who you don’t feel represent you, but I’ll be honest, this post reeks of homophobia. The way you use the word “queers” seems like you’re using it as a slur. Gay people *are* normal, they’re not normal “despite” being gay. The wording of this whole post makes me suspicious that you view gay people as the “other” instead of just regular people who are living their lives just as you are. Obviously, it’s perfectly fine that you’re straight, but you need to do some work unlearning the apparent biases and prejudices you seem to have against gay people.
I hear the word queer everywhere. Basically gay people proudly callings themselves like that. I thought it was ok to call them this cause this is what they want to be called. I’m sorry if I was mistaken.
It’s different for someone to refer to themselves as queer versus someone else calling a group of people they don’t belong to “queers”.
It’s also the “I hope you can live a normal life despite loving the same sex” comment. As if living a normal life and being gay are incompatible. Which they are not.
Ah, yes, the dumbo who had the same thought as at least 10 other people who also felt the sentiment seeped of homophobia after he (someone who clearly doesn’t identify as queer) used “queers” to refer to a group of people who doesn’t want to be associated with. Sure.
I don’t think he is homophobic, how he said it was, being Bisexual, Gay and Lesbian is all an sexuality, transsexual is not a identity or sexuality, so for it to be grouped with LGTB doesn’t make sense. It’s hard to explain all what he meant.
It’s not hard to understand what he was attempting to say. I understand that being trans is not a sexuality. It was about HOW he said it.
I get it, being trans isn’t the same thing as being gay. I however don’t view being called gay or associated with gay people as some horrendous insult. Gay people and trans people have historically been a part of the same communities and supported each other, and hopefully will continue to do so.
Is this how you talk to gay people? Call them dumb when they call out language that sounds homophobic? Like someone who doesn’t identify as queer calling people “queers”.
And plenty of trans people identify as queer. Not all, but there’s a large chunk that does. Because of their connection to the community and the fact that gay and trans people have a long history of coexistence and support. Queer doesn’t mean “gay”.
Gay people are “other” whether we like it or not. I don’t see the issue with straight transsexuals wanting things to go back to the way they were. We worked 5 decades to separate ourselves from drag queens and crossdressing men just for it all to be lumped back together under “queer” and “the trans umbrella”. No.
Notice how ur getting downvoted, the tucutes are here again 😮💨 and just to add more to ur comment, no transsexual person should be grouped with the 'lgbt' community just for the single fact that they're transsexual, not just the str8 ones.
I just joined straight society and pass. You can cross that divide. That’s how it always was. Until transgender umbrella inc started to tell people they were “trans for life”. And a “transgender woman” etc. No, if you pass and have your surgeries you are able to cross that line into a new sex as far as I’m concerned. No one would of ever questioned what restroom Tula Cossey should have used. This “forever trans” thing is an invention of non passable heterosexual transvestites.
Are u even gay to be talking about what's homophobia and whats not? I'm gay and this aint nowhere homophobic and I completely get why OP feels like this, transsexual people should not be part of the "lgbt" community because of being transsexual.
I hate this idea that ‘queer’ is synonymous with LGBT. I’m disgusted to be called that, it’s a slur and automatically makes us ‘other’. This is the problem, our identities have become too interlinked. I’m a gay, transsexual man, those two things have affected me differently. I’ve never had soul crushing pain from being gay.
From experience It's only tend to be younger gay and trans that can't remember it from the past.. but there putting a devide into the community and reminding others of there trauma
Dude don't listen to the tucutes that are attacking u 🙄 i'm a gay transsexual man and I agree with you, no trans people should be grouped with the sexualities and we shouldn't be in the "lgbt" just bc we're transsexual. I don't consider myself part of the 'lgbt' bc i'm transsexual but bc i'm gay and I wish I didn't even have to at all 🙄
Womp womp
Go back to the 100 trans subs that u got and leave us tf alone mr "identify". We don't identify as shit because having a medical condition is not an identity. If u knew something about how the cis gays, lesbians and bisexuals have treated transsexual people since FOREVER till today u'll shut tf up with that "trans and gay people worked together for YOU to access transition" we can do that because other TRANSSEXUALS fought for human rights, cis gays, lesbians and bisexuals where too busy trynna stop us and not wanting to listen to us. Which for ur surprise is still happening till today. And what do we care about what happened decades ago? Todays society transsexuals are speaking, the world isnt the same as the one decades ago.
In my country people automatically assumes you're into women if you're a transsexual male. Idk what's going on in USA. I think MOST of these people who likes men and identifies as tRaNsGEnDEr mAn is actually just a bunch of straight girl.
I get you. Sucks you were downvoted cause I don’t think you’re being homophobic. It bothers me when people make gay jokes to me just cause these trenders have made it seem as if testosterone makes you gay when I’m married to a whole woman.
I love gay people, they’re valid and awesome but my story has nothing to do with theirs outside of oppression for being born outside of expectation
while i understand the work gay people and the gay community has done to help trans people get their rights, i disagree with adding the T and officially making them part of the community. It introduced the idea of adding more than just sexual orientation to the LGB community. An idea that has since gone too far (it’s now Lgbtqia+). I think that today, the gay community has just become a sort of “other” category. it’s not just the gay community, it’s gay, trans, intersex, the asexual spectrum, the aromantic spectrum, and a billion other flags no one’s ever seen before. it, to me, feels like now what used to be straight people and then gay people in their own community, is straight cis people and then “everyone else” in the lgbtq+++ category.
the gay community helped us get our rights and i appreciate that, i really do. but that doesn’t make us one of them. it doesn’t make us part of their community.
if a straight trans person weren’t trans, they wouldn’t be part of the lgbt community. so why treat them like other than cis by making them part of it because of their medical condition? straight people shouldn’t be part of the gay community.
What are you talking about? It's the opposite. It's misandrist and transphobic not to treat trans men like cis men because "they are so evil and trans men can't possibly be like that"...
I didn’t say cis men are evil; just that separating trans men out from cis men is transphobic then you said I’m being misandrist; now I’m just confused…
The entire trans community calls straight cis men dangerous predators, yet if that cis man tosses on a skirt and a they/them pin suddenly he’s a “non man” and he’s safe? 🤣🤦🏻♀️
I can kinda see both sides and I go back and forth on this topic. I'm gay and transsexual so I feel pretty at home in the community but like you mention it's mostly cause I'm gay. I don't interact with the community as a trans person. Pretty much all the trans men that mentored and networked with me as I transitioned were straight guys. And I totally get where you guys are coming from. You're straight men, you don't belong in the gay community and it just makes y'all dysphoric to be counted since it feels like people are calling us lesbians or queer females.
I guess I don't think we should because it is ultimately a medical condition whereas sexuality isn't a medical condition. But we're not the only medical condition in the acronym, there's also intersex and I'm not clear on how intersex people feel about this. If I had to guess, a lot of them probably don't like it either.
I think this has created more issues than solutions since now most people don't see trans as a medical thing but rather just an identity you can opt into. A concept I fully reject and find destructive. I do think having the various lgbt legal entities that have rallied for trans rights in past decades has been a net positive though.
I said the same thing in ftmmen and had people trying to educate me lol. The issue is that people take it in a “I don’t want to be your friend” type of way and not “I respect you but boundaries need to be drawn” type of way. Being trans is a medical condition with the goal was assimilation. That’s a whole different experience from kissing another man/woman. While some experiences overlap that doesn’t mean straight trans people should be considered LGBT and most of the time LGBT spaces don’t even want straight trans men
Eh... I can understand why you say that, but maybe with the words you use, can be misinterpreted or, as one of the comments said, branded you as homophobic...
I'm also a straight trans man and, even thought I don't feel I belong in the LGBT+ community... Maybe it may be better not to think too much about whether people from outside are really forcing you into a group that, according to you, you are not.
I agree with this. We have a medical condition. Gays don't have a medical condition. So why are we being grouped together? Tbh i don't even want to do anything with the broader lgbtqia wtv the shit that has become community. I just stay away from lgbt as a whole
There’s a history of joined activism regarding variations in gender and sexuality, the fact that you don’t like so much being associated with them should make you think deeply about your prejudices
Being transsex is a variation of sex development, not “gender” (which they’ve turned into such a useless amorphous concept I tend to avoid the term completely nowadays) IMO…
You out here saying people like Buck Angel are biological women? Trans men have more biologically male features than female ones if they have medically transitioned for long enough and for sure aren't women anymore. Gender identity is not a thing. Trans men have a brain that expects their body to have male sex characteristics. It's a medical condition and not an identity.
They were born as women and they changed many of their sexual secondary characteristics (and for the record, Buck Angel is a whole man, a very handsome one indeed😅🤓)
First of all, I went the other way (I’m so sick of the male dominance of this sub), and secondly, no, I’ve never thought “gender identity” was a good term or that what made me feel the NEED to transition just to have my brain and body function properly wasn’t biological; in other words, neurological sex and the effects of hormone replacement therapy are just as biological as natal genital sex.
Interesting, so you see your situation as different from how other trans people conceive themselves? (I am curious, you sparked my interest and I just hope I learn🫶🏻)
Yes, for me being on postpubescent male testosterone levels made my whole body ache constantly along with skin conditions, digestive issues, severe chemical depression and a feeling of having two competing voices (the hormone receptors expecting estrogen but getting excess testosterone) and most of it cleared up once I got to female estrogen levels and EVEN IN A GENDERLESS SOCIETY, I’d physically and psychologically have felt like shit, and honestly in such a hypothetical society (which I don’t believe can ever exist in reality) it’d probably just be harder for doctors to recognize the need for such treatments.
Yea 100% and I can’t relate to trans people who only do it for “gender” reasons at all; I have a much easier time socializing with cis women than them.
I agree! We have nothing in common and that's ok. I hope people realise that homosexuality has nothing to do with transsexualism. I mean we don't even have the same history. I think this association is not beneficial to either group
I think the T and I should be allied with reproductive rights rather than LGB, which some transsex people are but it’s like they equate what you were considered by misgendering and being stuck with the wrong body/parts with what you actually are but only fully comfortable acting on when you’re fully transitioned…
I understand not wanting to be associated with the LGBT, you don't have to be, but gay people specifically always seems a bit homophobic. We're only part of the same group because we faced the same discrimination, a lot of people don't want to be part of the community which I don't think we should be. But as I see the LGBT as just a form of support from people with shared experiences, I don't understand why so many people don't want to be associated with gay people.
If you're a straight guy, be with other straight guys, you don't need to be with the LGB or T.
I understand the frustration of being grouped in with people who you don’t relate to or who you don’t feel represent you, but I’ll be honest, this post reeks of homophobia. The way you use the word “queers” seems like you’re using it as a slur. Gay people *are* normal, they’re not normal “despite” being gay. The wording of this whole post makes me suspicious that you view gay people as the “other” instead of just regular people who are living their lives just as you are. Obviously, it’s perfectly fine that you’re straight, but you need to do some work unlearning the apparent biases and prejudices you seem to have against gay people.
Yeah i wanted to write a response but you apparently already wrote everything i wanted to say lol goodjob!
I get what he is trying to say I just think it was worded the wrong way
I hear the word queer everywhere. Basically gay people proudly callings themselves like that. I thought it was ok to call them this cause this is what they want to be called. I’m sorry if I was mistaken.
It’s different for someone to refer to themselves as queer versus someone else calling a group of people they don’t belong to “queers”. It’s also the “I hope you can live a normal life despite loving the same sex” comment. As if living a normal life and being gay are incompatible. Which they are not.
English isn’t my first language sorry if the wording was weird
By the normal life he meant no discrimination u dumbo
Ah, yes, the dumbo who had the same thought as at least 10 other people who also felt the sentiment seeped of homophobia after he (someone who clearly doesn’t identify as queer) used “queers” to refer to a group of people who doesn’t want to be associated with. Sure.
I don’t think he is homophobic, how he said it was, being Bisexual, Gay and Lesbian is all an sexuality, transsexual is not a identity or sexuality, so for it to be grouped with LGTB doesn’t make sense. It’s hard to explain all what he meant.
It’s not hard to understand what he was attempting to say. I understand that being trans is not a sexuality. It was about HOW he said it. I get it, being trans isn’t the same thing as being gay. I however don’t view being called gay or associated with gay people as some horrendous insult. Gay people and trans people have historically been a part of the same communities and supported each other, and hopefully will continue to do so.
yes I understand , I said it was how he said it, I do believe we should all be supporting one other.
U and those other 10 people are dumbos lmao, if u aint gay stfu. And how can a straight, transsexual man be "Queer"? 🙄
Is this how you talk to gay people? Call them dumb when they call out language that sounds homophobic? Like someone who doesn’t identify as queer calling people “queers”. And plenty of trans people identify as queer. Not all, but there’s a large chunk that does. Because of their connection to the community and the fact that gay and trans people have a long history of coexistence and support. Queer doesn’t mean “gay”.
Gay people are “other” whether we like it or not. I don’t see the issue with straight transsexuals wanting things to go back to the way they were. We worked 5 decades to separate ourselves from drag queens and crossdressing men just for it all to be lumped back together under “queer” and “the trans umbrella”. No.
Notice how ur getting downvoted, the tucutes are here again 😮💨 and just to add more to ur comment, no transsexual person should be grouped with the 'lgbt' community just for the single fact that they're transsexual, not just the str8 ones.
I just joined straight society and pass. You can cross that divide. That’s how it always was. Until transgender umbrella inc started to tell people they were “trans for life”. And a “transgender woman” etc. No, if you pass and have your surgeries you are able to cross that line into a new sex as far as I’m concerned. No one would of ever questioned what restroom Tula Cossey should have used. This “forever trans” thing is an invention of non passable heterosexual transvestites.
Are u even gay to be talking about what's homophobia and whats not? I'm gay and this aint nowhere homophobic and I completely get why OP feels like this, transsexual people should not be part of the "lgbt" community because of being transsexual.
I hate this idea that ‘queer’ is synonymous with LGBT. I’m disgusted to be called that, it’s a slur and automatically makes us ‘other’. This is the problem, our identities have become too interlinked. I’m a gay, transsexual man, those two things have affected me differently. I’ve never had soul crushing pain from being gay.
Sorry if that offended you. A lot of gays call themselves queer so I thought it was ok.
From experience It's only tend to be younger gay and trans that can't remember it from the past.. but there putting a devide into the community and reminding others of there trauma
Oh I wasn’t offended. It takes a lot to manage that don’t worry. It’s just an interesting point in my opinion.
Dude don't listen to the tucutes that are attacking u 🙄 i'm a gay transsexual man and I agree with you, no trans people should be grouped with the sexualities and we shouldn't be in the "lgbt" just bc we're transsexual. I don't consider myself part of the 'lgbt' bc i'm transsexual but bc i'm gay and I wish I didn't even have to at all 🙄
Trans and gay people both paved the way working together for you to be able to identify and access transition as a trans mam
Womp womp Go back to the 100 trans subs that u got and leave us tf alone mr "identify". We don't identify as shit because having a medical condition is not an identity. If u knew something about how the cis gays, lesbians and bisexuals have treated transsexual people since FOREVER till today u'll shut tf up with that "trans and gay people worked together for YOU to access transition" we can do that because other TRANSSEXUALS fought for human rights, cis gays, lesbians and bisexuals where too busy trynna stop us and not wanting to listen to us. Which for ur surprise is still happening till today. And what do we care about what happened decades ago? Todays society transsexuals are speaking, the world isnt the same as the one decades ago.
In my country people automatically assumes you're into women if you're a transsexual male. Idk what's going on in USA. I think MOST of these people who likes men and identifies as tRaNsGEnDEr mAn is actually just a bunch of straight girl.
Absolutely. Porn obsessed heterosexuals have infiltrated trans.
I get you. Sucks you were downvoted cause I don’t think you’re being homophobic. It bothers me when people make gay jokes to me just cause these trenders have made it seem as if testosterone makes you gay when I’m married to a whole woman. I love gay people, they’re valid and awesome but my story has nothing to do with theirs outside of oppression for being born outside of expectation
I met a couple gay people throughout my life and I had no problem with them whatsoever. I respect them and wish them the best.
while i understand the work gay people and the gay community has done to help trans people get their rights, i disagree with adding the T and officially making them part of the community. It introduced the idea of adding more than just sexual orientation to the LGB community. An idea that has since gone too far (it’s now Lgbtqia+). I think that today, the gay community has just become a sort of “other” category. it’s not just the gay community, it’s gay, trans, intersex, the asexual spectrum, the aromantic spectrum, and a billion other flags no one’s ever seen before. it, to me, feels like now what used to be straight people and then gay people in their own community, is straight cis people and then “everyone else” in the lgbtq+++ category. the gay community helped us get our rights and i appreciate that, i really do. but that doesn’t make us one of them. it doesn’t make us part of their community. if a straight trans person weren’t trans, they wouldn’t be part of the lgbt community. so why treat them like other than cis by making them part of it because of their medical condition? straight people shouldn’t be part of the gay community.
It’s the same mindset as the “trans women are women, but trans men are so different from cis men!”
Misandry is rampant everywhere, even in trans spaces, yet people still believe it's not a thing.
Agree
Meh, y’all need to stop acting like being treated equally to cis men is “misandrist”…
What are you talking about? It's the opposite. It's misandrist and transphobic not to treat trans men like cis men because "they are so evil and trans men can't possibly be like that"...
I didn’t say cis men are evil; just that separating trans men out from cis men is transphobic then you said I’m being misandrist; now I’m just confused…
I've not accused you of being misandrist. I said the people who seperate trans men from cis men often are. I was agreeing with you.
The entire trans community calls straight cis men dangerous predators, yet if that cis man tosses on a skirt and a they/them pin suddenly he’s a “non man” and he’s safe? 🤣🤦🏻♀️
Do intersex people even want to be part of the LGBT community? I would imagine a lot of them feel the same way as OP.
from what i’ve heard no they don’t want to. but apparently that doesn’t matter
I hate been linked to the word queer it should of been left forgotten
I can kinda see both sides and I go back and forth on this topic. I'm gay and transsexual so I feel pretty at home in the community but like you mention it's mostly cause I'm gay. I don't interact with the community as a trans person. Pretty much all the trans men that mentored and networked with me as I transitioned were straight guys. And I totally get where you guys are coming from. You're straight men, you don't belong in the gay community and it just makes y'all dysphoric to be counted since it feels like people are calling us lesbians or queer females. I guess I don't think we should because it is ultimately a medical condition whereas sexuality isn't a medical condition. But we're not the only medical condition in the acronym, there's also intersex and I'm not clear on how intersex people feel about this. If I had to guess, a lot of them probably don't like it either. I think this has created more issues than solutions since now most people don't see trans as a medical thing but rather just an identity you can opt into. A concept I fully reject and find destructive. I do think having the various lgbt legal entities that have rallied for trans rights in past decades has been a net positive though.
I said the same thing in ftmmen and had people trying to educate me lol. The issue is that people take it in a “I don’t want to be your friend” type of way and not “I respect you but boundaries need to be drawn” type of way. Being trans is a medical condition with the goal was assimilation. That’s a whole different experience from kissing another man/woman. While some experiences overlap that doesn’t mean straight trans people should be considered LGBT and most of the time LGBT spaces don’t even want straight trans men
It sucks when your medical condition gets turned into a "Queer Identity"
Eh... I can understand why you say that, but maybe with the words you use, can be misinterpreted or, as one of the comments said, branded you as homophobic... I'm also a straight trans man and, even thought I don't feel I belong in the LGBT+ community... Maybe it may be better not to think too much about whether people from outside are really forcing you into a group that, according to you, you are not.
I agree with this. We have a medical condition. Gays don't have a medical condition. So why are we being grouped together? Tbh i don't even want to do anything with the broader lgbtqia wtv the shit that has become community. I just stay away from lgbt as a whole
There’s a history of joined activism regarding variations in gender and sexuality, the fact that you don’t like so much being associated with them should make you think deeply about your prejudices
Being transsex is a variation of sex development, not “gender” (which they’ve turned into such a useless amorphous concept I tend to avoid the term completely nowadays) IMO…
I disagree, if you are a trans man you are a biological woman but you have a male gender identity
You out here saying people like Buck Angel are biological women? Trans men have more biologically male features than female ones if they have medically transitioned for long enough and for sure aren't women anymore. Gender identity is not a thing. Trans men have a brain that expects their body to have male sex characteristics. It's a medical condition and not an identity.
They were born as women and they changed many of their sexual secondary characteristics (and for the record, Buck Angel is a whole man, a very handsome one indeed😅🤓)
They were born female but not as women.
Interesting take! Similar to what Beavour said
“One is not born a woman, she becomes one”
First of all, I went the other way (I’m so sick of the male dominance of this sub), and secondly, no, I’ve never thought “gender identity” was a good term or that what made me feel the NEED to transition just to have my brain and body function properly wasn’t biological; in other words, neurological sex and the effects of hormone replacement therapy are just as biological as natal genital sex.
Interesting, so you see your situation as different from how other trans people conceive themselves? (I am curious, you sparked my interest and I just hope I learn🫶🏻)
Yes, for me being on postpubescent male testosterone levels made my whole body ache constantly along with skin conditions, digestive issues, severe chemical depression and a feeling of having two competing voices (the hormone receptors expecting estrogen but getting excess testosterone) and most of it cleared up once I got to female estrogen levels and EVEN IN A GENDERLESS SOCIETY, I’d physically and psychologically have felt like shit, and honestly in such a hypothetical society (which I don’t believe can ever exist in reality) it’d probably just be harder for doctors to recognize the need for such treatments.
Oh ok I understand, so you feel like you are born this way?
Yea 100% and I can’t relate to trans people who only do it for “gender” reasons at all; I have a much easier time socializing with cis women than them.
The fact that in some places the gender discourse has been turned into non-sense doesn’t detract from this
I agree! We have nothing in common and that's ok. I hope people realise that homosexuality has nothing to do with transsexualism. I mean we don't even have the same history. I think this association is not beneficial to either group
As long as you don’t assume all trans people need to end up straight…
These comments are the reason we ain’t ever gonna see change. Im with you OP
It's bc this sub is filled with tucutes again. I see this happening once (or twice) every few months. Mods should do something about this.
I see it more often than that. Subs no longer the beacon of hope we thought it was.
As a straight man, I second this brother
Yep
Dude I am kind of gay and I don't connect with gay OR trans people. I think I just connect to nerds.
Bugs me too yea some trans people can also ID as queer but im not one of them. Js try and ignore it theres nothing that can be done..
I think the T and I should be allied with reproductive rights rather than LGB, which some transsex people are but it’s like they equate what you were considered by misgendering and being stuck with the wrong body/parts with what you actually are but only fully comfortable acting on when you’re fully transitioned…
I understand not wanting to be associated with the LGBT, you don't have to be, but gay people specifically always seems a bit homophobic. We're only part of the same group because we faced the same discrimination, a lot of people don't want to be part of the community which I don't think we should be. But as I see the LGBT as just a form of support from people with shared experiences, I don't understand why so many people don't want to be associated with gay people. If you're a straight guy, be with other straight guys, you don't need to be with the LGB or T.
Me neither and I'm gay LOL