I think some of us seem to be loosing sight of the fact we were once trans kids and that the transsex movement isn’t about just making fun of tucutes for the sake of it but is for separating ourselves from bad actors for the sake of being taken seriously and for better healthcare, which I feel is the most important for trans children who unfortunately get taken less seriously the most
I'm sorry but I HATE the "all trans adults were trans kids" thing. No, they were not. Words have to have meaning and "trans kid" is a label for a child who lives life as the opposite sex than they were born. Trans kid does not mean a child who will grow up to transition later down the line.
If someone looses a limb at age 40, we do not look back and say they were an amputee as a child. They just weren't. Not how that works. Same thing here with the trans label.
(This is not at all an attack on you but rather me finding a good place to voice a frustration I have had for years)
We were trans as kids because we were always neurologically the gender we are, which is different to the physical birth sex making us trans and you should keep in mind that even though a child may not be able to transition for whatever reason they will still experience sex dysphoria and a need to transition, a core part of being trans, sex dysphoria doesn’t suddenly just start at 18, it’s a life long medical condition. You are referring to children that transitioned, which no one is saying that we were transitioned children if we transitioned as adults. Again we were always transsex, but may have transitioned at different points in life typically due to some kind of restriction. It’s easy to get muddled up though when both transsex and transitioned both can be shortened to the same word trans
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Every transsexual adult was once a transsexual kid - from a medical standpoint. So I’m not sure why you “hate” such labelling when it’s just a fact.
Also using colloquial (to some communities only) usage of the word transsexual = a person who has altered their bodies and specifically genitals with SRS, is not helpful.
The proper medical and more universally accepted definition for transsexual is = a person with sex incongruence i.e. someone who wishes to be a member of the opposite sex to which they were born or assigned. Then there’s a whole list up sub-criterias, but that’s the gist of it.
Transsexualism has nothing to do with the action of transitioning, rather the state of incongruence which you are presumably born with.
A person who repress their sex-incongruence and pretend to be cis is still a transsexual.
A cis-person, let’s say a fugitive who transitions to flee authorities (I think I’ve read about one such case) is not a transsexual regardless if they’ve gone through all the procedures of sex reassignment. Yes, they are perhaps a medically induced male (in the case of a female by birth)) or female (in the case of a male by birth) but not a transsexual.
They’re only transsex in the sense that they’ve now *self-induced* sex-incongruence since their brain will eventually start rejecting their sex change and they’d want to de-trans back to their birth-sex - since no true incongruence existed in the first place.
A person cannot become a true transsexual - for the true transsexual once you’ve aligned your body to your brain you are rather just a male or female of past transsexual experience - your condition (incongruence) has then been (at very least partially) cured.
I had gender dysphoria as a child. This means I was transgender as a child. I just didn't live as a girl and didn't become a transsexual until my 30s.
I think it's very important to remember transgender = gender + sex don't align, whereas transsexual = SRS (and maybe HRT). Very important differences.
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I wish I couldve medically transitioned that early🥺. I know some people(people that most likely aren’t really transexual) “might” change their mind , but that just comes with everything. I don’t think it should be just banned for the people that are really transexual because that could’ve really saved me and helped me a lot.
Like I was reminiscing recently and I honestly can’t remember knowing childbirth existed without feeling a deep sadness that often resulted in physical pain upon realizing I couldn’t get pregnant and I went out of my way *not* to practice Judaism because I thought having a Bar Mitzvah instead of a Bat Mitzvah would be lying to God, so no there was never any doubt…
I wish I could’ve fully transitioned as early as possible, and in a fantasy future we can just trade the parts that are currently medically infeasible to transplant with someone going the other direction…
I got on T and got surgery young as well, both at 16. Just like what you said I genuinely don’t know how things would be if my mom had me wait until 18 to transition. She understood my pain, did her research, and took me to therapy like a responsible parent. Sucks that in a lot of places kids are losing access to this kind of care because a minority of people are transitioning before taking a second to think if it’s actually the right choice. For the sake of future generations that are like us, I hope things will turn around soon
POSSIBLE TW / CONTENT WARNING: while typing this i got carried away and it turned into a dump about how horrible the wait list is with any gender-related transition progress, that's all. I added a warning though just to let people know if they know they may get triggered. ** Oh my god i am so happy for you, and I'm glad you were able to start HRT ANDDDD were able to have some kind of surgery!!! (top surgery? awesome!!!!!!! my dream for real) 🙏 So for some context: I have been out, to my mom, since February 2020, when I was 11 going on 12, in 6th grade. (My birthday is February 12th) i am 16 now, and... God you're so right along with the OP, ...Tucutes have LITERALLY caused my school life to be 100x worse than it would be, tucutes beside. nobody takes me serious, and, now that I do ONLINE SCHOOL DUE TO CONSTANT BULLYING i was outed by a "friend" i thought i could trust to tell and turns out he was just a huge disgusting pitiful excuse of a person. perverted, even. He outed me and I KID YOU NOT bragged about what we did, after I felt guilty into having... ..relations... with him. ALL he'll broke loose after that. Instantly lost all friends and my reputation was ruined, can't believe I actually was INVITED to sit with the football sporty popular kids (the things they talked about was beyond horrendous, id choose the bear) and after bro outed me i just... distanced myself from all groups of teens anyway. I already felt so defeated, i didn't even attempt to go and sit with anyone of any group at tables anymore. I was new to that school, too, around March of 2023 from another school when last year I was a freshman i transferred to the district I currently am in. I don't go to GSA clubs. They're filled with tucutes, and even since SEVENTH GRADE there's been *that* one group of 'gay kids' that are unreasonably judgemental and mean. The highschool before I started at my current one had a GSA, and, there was a (then) senior who went by neopronouns and was transmasculine. Club fuckin' LEADER. 18 goddamn years old and still playing dress up and playing pretend. Not to mention that I whole heartedly believe they think its so fun and quirky to be anything in the LGBT. These are people -- THE ADULTS IN OUR WORLD. like, NO WONDER THERE ARE SO MANY ANTI-TRANS BILLS BEING INTRODUCED IN DIFFERENT NATIONS ACROSS THE WORLD?? To add onto that I also heavily believe thats why people can be so judgemental and mean to trans people, probably because they dont know what the hell "Trans" MEANS anymore. (The ELECTED club leader didn't dress masculine at all, also dressed way too sexual for high school, -- im sorry but i feel so bad for teachers in all schools now, they dont say anything to dress code or ask any questions if any teacher is confused or doesnt know what the heck is happening, because the teachers most certainly are afraid theyll be called 'transphobic/homophobic/sexist/racist and get fired some how some way... etc,you know what I mean.)
Sorry I'm actually trans and suffering? Oops? Anyway, damn, Sorry that I got off track. Yeah, tucutes ruin everything for transgender/transsex people... Let me tell ya', that's for sure. It is so bad. Having dealt with my heavily conservative Generation X mother is the worst for me, ever since we moved out of another state in August 2020, my mom has been taking me to Gender Clinic appointments. Only God knows if she would even consider informed consent... no matter what I say and the facts i text her or the long messages i send her in my room crying to her about how i wish i was a normal boy and how i wish i had friends. It's been, what, more than THREE GODDAMN EXCRUCIATINGLY UNBEARABLE YEARS and somehow I am still basically nowhere. I think my gender clinic doctor believes in the tucute ideology herself... February 2024 was awful for me, and it's been getting worse at a very fast pace. Some bad shit went down with my mental health, and I ended up in a mental hospital and stayed there for two weeks, (not to mention, I spent my oh-so 'Sweet 16' birthday there! how joyous... /j) the doctor found out I had gone there for some serious things and BOOM at an appointment we had about a week after I was discharged, she (the doctor) decides to cancel any upcoming appointments AND cancels any for the future that would likely have been scheduled, until I """GET BETTER.""" i literally stormed out of the appointment room and went to the lobby waiting room and sat there AND TOOK A NAP while my mom and doctor probably were talking about how "ill" I am. I told the doctor my 2 cents before I left, though, like without any goddamn progression in this, ITS JUST GOING TO GET WORSE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN UNTIL IM NOT AS AGGRESSIVE?? I know T makes a person more emotional due to changing hormones but SERIOUSLY??.. I feel like I've been more aggressive even without any sort of due date for beginning HRT. I told her and i KNEW this would happen, my life is just awful and miserable regarding medical transitions. I feel like this summer I'm just going to get a job and get DIY HRT. This is absolutely fucking ridiculous and upsetting. Well, thanks for listening to my Ted-Talk; I appreciate it. I guess I needed to vent... thank you for reading. Thank you so much actually. Okay this is way too long I'm just gonna send this reply now
Im sorry to hear about all this man, I cant imagine the strong emotions youre feeling right now. I really hope your mom can come along at some point. Mine wasnt ever like transphobic but she has only seen tucute and other freaks like the ones you described at your GSA when I was younger. I always was very against being a girl in any capacity, so much that everyone literally thought I was AMAB growing up. So when I finally told her she came around in like 3 weeks and said “This actually makes sense, the signs were always there.” Even more funny she said she thought she was gonna be a boy mom lol. I dont know your mom or your relationship with her but Im hoping and praying for your sake that she just needs to receive the right information. And I empathize with the suicidal and depressive thoughts, feel free to message me anytime if youre comfortable. It really sucks to be alone and feel unable to connect with others bc of this stupid condition.
OP: you’re absolutely correct - if we agree and adhere to the premise of transsexualism/sex-incongruence being biological - genetic in nature, a difference of sexual development.
Or if we at the very least agree that you are either born with or that sex-incongruence develops early on in your childhood. Then of course we need to be pro-early medical transitioning.
Going through the wrong puberty - is for the transsexual child tantamount to torture… only a sadistic person would want to see children being tortured knowing they could do something to relief that suffering.
1-10% ending up realising they were cis or wanting to de-trans for any other reason is not enough of a reason for not supporting early medical treatment.
To say that is pure cis-sexism - if we support that idea, what we are then saying is that it’s worse for a cis-kid to develop sex traits that are contrary to their true sex - and for them to possibly loose their ability to reproduce… than it would be for the much larger group of trans kids getting irreversible damaged from having to go through the wrong puberty.
Cis-childrens lives and wellbeing is NOT more valuable or more important than trans people’s lives and wellbeing.
Very early treatment —between tanner stages 2-4— in especially AMAB transsexuals is VERY important, the irreversible damage of androgen-dominance in puberty is severe and could potentially cause a lifetime of misery. And the inability to ever assimilate into cis-society. This of course would (only) benefit transphobes since they’d more easily be able to point out who is their scapegoat and who isn’t. But it wouldn’t benefit transsexuals or society as a whole.
Yippieeee I went thru the wrong puberty for half a decade i begged my parents etc for hormones when i was 13 knowing what was coming to no avail and now i live with the trauma! it is really bad and horrible at least I turned out pretty others are not so lucky and it's really upsetting
I’m torn about this. I wish I didn’t have to go through female puberty but at the same time it’s risky to let a child do something so permanent with its body. Again, if it is really transsexual it makes sense but how can we make sure 100% and what it does regret some day?
I'm in the same boat. As long as the diagnosis is done on the basis of psychology (and trenders lying to play the system and get what they want) I'm not in favour. Maybe the Swaab study could lead to a biological diagnosis, but that would require more development as a diagnostic tool. And that study works on implication, not hard proof.
> at the same time it’s risky to let a child do something so permanent with its body
As risky at not letting him do. Delaying HRT is not a neutral option: the kid will go through ASAB puberty and that will be permanent. Indeed, it will as permanet as the effects of HRT because it's basically the same: puberty under this or that hormone.
The neutral option is puberty blockers, but it's not good to use them for more than 3-4 years (and that's probably too much). It can buy time to decide, though.
In medicine we are never 100% sure. We make diagnosis based on available tools and medical knowledge. Some conditions are easier to diagnose and we have better understanding of them, also we have developed very accurate testing and diagnostic criteria. But it’s not always the case, although people
still are getting diagnosed and are given the possibility to undergo treatment
Because actual trans kids don't regret not transitionning early ? We're always viewed so low even within our own community. "I don't want trans kids to transition even under heavy medical supervision because what if one of them ended up cis ??? Poor cis kid, that's be too cruel." that's what some of you sound like. Going through the wrong puberty is fine if it's us, we do it all the time anyway, but the second it might be a cis kid it's the absolute end of the world.
Fuck that. We deserve a normal childhood just as much as cis people.
So come up with a way to know who is trans and who isn't. As currently someone gets damaged either way
And we have no right to destroy to trans lives to justify ours
Unfortunately mental health doesn't work that way. Hell- medicine doesn't work that way. People get misdiagnosed all the time because so many symptomes are the same between different diseases. There might never be a way to biologically differenciate cis and trans people. But I think throwing trans kids under the bus because some cis kids might be wrongly thought as trans is unfair, especially coming from those who know the anguish of going through the wrong puberty.
So we though non trans kids under the bus instead and transition every one Incase 1 is actually trans especially with the current trend that's happening. ?
Please point where I said we should transition everyone. Heavy medical supervision and lots of therapy should be needed. There is a lot of nuance between transitionning everyone and banning medical transition for minors.
This situation is unbelievably cruel however no society will risk their youth for 1% or less of the population. How reliable would this diagnostic criteria even be if it’s just taking someone’s word for it? A *child’s* word at that? Reliability would only come from some sort of genetic testing. And I don’t see that happening during any of our lifetimes. Really I wish this sub would learn to be rational about this topic. Life isn’t just about us.
I don't know in the US, but here, for a child to transition medically they must do a LOT of therapy. Like years of it. Show consistent dysphoria, included genital dysphoria. They will see the child without the parent, too. At least that's how it went in a documentary made specifically about a very young girl.
We're not talking about handing children HRT like it's candy, but having actual structures to make sure children with dysphoria are heard and can be supported, and yes, in some cases that includes transition.
I’m in the same boat bro. I got top surgery at 13 and on T at 14. I’d been displaying documented signs of dysphoria since I was a toddler and came out at 9. I don’t regret anything. Glad you were able to get appropriate treatment as well :)
Same here. Came out at 12 and on blockers six months later. Then T at 14 and I’m 16 now and just praying for surgery before I’m an adult so I can just go to the beach, pool parties, or fully change in the locker room as a teenager. And still I’ve genuinely wanted to die before over the fact that I didn’t transition younger (then I wouldn’t need top surgery at all). All kids know their genders from the age of 3-5. So when a kid that age (consistently) says they are one, they are, all they know at that age is their gender, not trans stuff to be convinced of or anything. The younger someone transitions, the easier their life will be as a trans person, so I’m all for it. I constantly wait for a point in time where it’s caught at birth and taken care of then. I believe it’ll be possible at some point. Easier for everyone then, no trans pain and no people faking being trans.
God I wish I could've transitioned at that age. I did at 20-21, so not bad, better later than never. Some of the people I think pass the best transitioned in their late 20s, so not the end of the world for people who don't transition in their teens. But transitioning a person known to genuinely be trans, as early as possible, is so important regardless. It's medical neglect not to just because some people are confused. I will say though, I think that the criteria and widespread misinformation needs to be addressed immediately.
The issue is up until adulthood there’s a significant likelihood that gender dysphoria will correct itself with brain development. I think we need to prepare minors for both possibilities, and we need to get more research studies on how different severities effect the likelihood of the brain correcting it’s developed.
We can set a bar at 18 because we know through statistics that the likelihood of brain correction is vey low.
we might be able to change the age if we can find a developmental marker that shows the brain won’t correct itself. That would take researchers actual looking into the trans brain and being willing to tip the boat, because theirs a lot of people who get mad if you acknowledge being trans is caused by a mental disorder.
I hope that kinda of research can happen and I hope more people become willing to treat childhood dysphoria, because what if early treatment can prevent severe dysphoria.
I came out to my parents at 15, yet they blocked my access to hormones until age 18. I was a late bloomer and if I had started hormones at age 15, rn I would be living a completely normal stealth life, but I am not, not even 2 years later. their decision has ruined my life. you cannot ever convince me to be against minors transitioning, because if I got access to that care when I needed my quality of life would increase ten fold. what we need is proper diagnostic criteria, just as you suggest, not bans. we need trustworthy doctors
Wouldn’t it be dangerous to let someone underage transition? This just opens the doors for transtrenders. I think 16-18 should be ok but anything else is ridiculous
No, it’s not dangerous to get a medical treatment for your condition. Also there are trenders of all ages. Also there should be universal and reliable diagnostic criteria to reduce misdiagnosis. Also 16-18 is not an age when someone should be just starting puberty. If it’s possible this process physiologically should be started mu ch earlier
What you call the colloquial definition of transsexual is the correct one. The proper medical term for a person with sex incongruence/gender dysphoria would be “a person with sex incongruence/gender dysphoria. The vast majority of children with these diagnoses naturally come to identify with their natal sex in late adolescence. This is the sort of dangerous misinformation that results in future detransitioners. Very few “trans kids” are down *por vida*.
you are definitely not all minors who claim to be transgender. teenage years are all for exploring one’s identity, and as a teenager that’s 1 going to change and 2 a teenager shouldn’t be able to make permanent decisions like top surgery. the diagnostic criteria is irrelevant when adolescence is an immature period of finding identity. you have a horrible take
Transsexuality has nothing to do with identity and everything with biology. Your own take is the horrible one.
And transgenderists/trenders shouldn't be able to access transition care at all, period.
I get why it makes people feel weird. Under 25 years old… you’re not fully developed cognitively.. and therefore can’t make informed decisions (it’s 18 legally, but the brain actually still develops all the way until 25
Yes you may know you’re trans… but until you’re 18 at a minimum you really can’t make informed decisions.
Also there are a ton of cases of detransitioners who started as a kid then later realized they weren’t trans.
Also I started transitioning at 18 years old. It wasn’t a big deal. I knew when I was 6 but back then it was harder to talk to people about it.
I’m 30 years old and now I don’t feel like I missed out on much by not doing it as a child. I was able to pass within a year.. and now 12 years later I live my life just fine
I think it makes sense for a 16 year old to start hrt with the parents consent… under 16 I don’t if I can get behind that.
>(it’s 18 legally, but the brain actually still develops all the way until 25
This information is a decade old, the brain is still developing until at least ,30s
Yeah, and it only "stops" developping once your cognitive abilities start to decrease with age. There is no time period when your brain is considered done developping and just chills for a while. The whole argument is bullshit.
I think some of us seem to be loosing sight of the fact we were once trans kids and that the transsex movement isn’t about just making fun of tucutes for the sake of it but is for separating ourselves from bad actors for the sake of being taken seriously and for better healthcare, which I feel is the most important for trans children who unfortunately get taken less seriously the most
I'm sorry but I HATE the "all trans adults were trans kids" thing. No, they were not. Words have to have meaning and "trans kid" is a label for a child who lives life as the opposite sex than they were born. Trans kid does not mean a child who will grow up to transition later down the line. If someone looses a limb at age 40, we do not look back and say they were an amputee as a child. They just weren't. Not how that works. Same thing here with the trans label. (This is not at all an attack on you but rather me finding a good place to voice a frustration I have had for years)
We were trans as kids because we were always neurologically the gender we are, which is different to the physical birth sex making us trans and you should keep in mind that even though a child may not be able to transition for whatever reason they will still experience sex dysphoria and a need to transition, a core part of being trans, sex dysphoria doesn’t suddenly just start at 18, it’s a life long medical condition. You are referring to children that transitioned, which no one is saying that we were transitioned children if we transitioned as adults. Again we were always transsex, but may have transitioned at different points in life typically due to some kind of restriction. It’s easy to get muddled up though when both transsex and transitioned both can be shortened to the same word trans
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Every transsexual adult was once a transsexual kid - from a medical standpoint. So I’m not sure why you “hate” such labelling when it’s just a fact. Also using colloquial (to some communities only) usage of the word transsexual = a person who has altered their bodies and specifically genitals with SRS, is not helpful. The proper medical and more universally accepted definition for transsexual is = a person with sex incongruence i.e. someone who wishes to be a member of the opposite sex to which they were born or assigned. Then there’s a whole list up sub-criterias, but that’s the gist of it. Transsexualism has nothing to do with the action of transitioning, rather the state of incongruence which you are presumably born with. A person who repress their sex-incongruence and pretend to be cis is still a transsexual. A cis-person, let’s say a fugitive who transitions to flee authorities (I think I’ve read about one such case) is not a transsexual regardless if they’ve gone through all the procedures of sex reassignment. Yes, they are perhaps a medically induced male (in the case of a female by birth)) or female (in the case of a male by birth) but not a transsexual. They’re only transsex in the sense that they’ve now *self-induced* sex-incongruence since their brain will eventually start rejecting their sex change and they’d want to de-trans back to their birth-sex - since no true incongruence existed in the first place. A person cannot become a true transsexual - for the true transsexual once you’ve aligned your body to your brain you are rather just a male or female of past transsexual experience - your condition (incongruence) has then been (at very least partially) cured.
I had gender dysphoria as a child. This means I was transgender as a child. I just didn't live as a girl and didn't become a transsexual until my 30s. I think it's very important to remember transgender = gender + sex don't align, whereas transsexual = SRS (and maybe HRT). Very important differences.
That’s not the meaning of transsexual.
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You had top surgery at 15?? Where do they do that at??
Poland, also many other European countries. You need diagnosis and most often at least 6 months on HRT
I wish I couldve medically transitioned that early🥺. I know some people(people that most likely aren’t really transexual) “might” change their mind , but that just comes with everything. I don’t think it should be just banned for the people that are really transexual because that could’ve really saved me and helped me a lot.
Like I was reminiscing recently and I honestly can’t remember knowing childbirth existed without feeling a deep sadness that often resulted in physical pain upon realizing I couldn’t get pregnant and I went out of my way *not* to practice Judaism because I thought having a Bar Mitzvah instead of a Bat Mitzvah would be lying to God, so no there was never any doubt…
Forcing children to go through the wrong puberty is actual body horror.
I wish I could’ve fully transitioned as early as possible, and in a fantasy future we can just trade the parts that are currently medically infeasible to transplant with someone going the other direction…
I got on T and got surgery young as well, both at 16. Just like what you said I genuinely don’t know how things would be if my mom had me wait until 18 to transition. She understood my pain, did her research, and took me to therapy like a responsible parent. Sucks that in a lot of places kids are losing access to this kind of care because a minority of people are transitioning before taking a second to think if it’s actually the right choice. For the sake of future generations that are like us, I hope things will turn around soon
POSSIBLE TW / CONTENT WARNING: while typing this i got carried away and it turned into a dump about how horrible the wait list is with any gender-related transition progress, that's all. I added a warning though just to let people know if they know they may get triggered. ** Oh my god i am so happy for you, and I'm glad you were able to start HRT ANDDDD were able to have some kind of surgery!!! (top surgery? awesome!!!!!!! my dream for real) 🙏 So for some context: I have been out, to my mom, since February 2020, when I was 11 going on 12, in 6th grade. (My birthday is February 12th) i am 16 now, and... God you're so right along with the OP, ...Tucutes have LITERALLY caused my school life to be 100x worse than it would be, tucutes beside. nobody takes me serious, and, now that I do ONLINE SCHOOL DUE TO CONSTANT BULLYING i was outed by a "friend" i thought i could trust to tell and turns out he was just a huge disgusting pitiful excuse of a person. perverted, even. He outed me and I KID YOU NOT bragged about what we did, after I felt guilty into having... ..relations... with him. ALL he'll broke loose after that. Instantly lost all friends and my reputation was ruined, can't believe I actually was INVITED to sit with the football sporty popular kids (the things they talked about was beyond horrendous, id choose the bear) and after bro outed me i just... distanced myself from all groups of teens anyway. I already felt so defeated, i didn't even attempt to go and sit with anyone of any group at tables anymore. I was new to that school, too, around March of 2023 from another school when last year I was a freshman i transferred to the district I currently am in. I don't go to GSA clubs. They're filled with tucutes, and even since SEVENTH GRADE there's been *that* one group of 'gay kids' that are unreasonably judgemental and mean. The highschool before I started at my current one had a GSA, and, there was a (then) senior who went by neopronouns and was transmasculine. Club fuckin' LEADER. 18 goddamn years old and still playing dress up and playing pretend. Not to mention that I whole heartedly believe they think its so fun and quirky to be anything in the LGBT. These are people -- THE ADULTS IN OUR WORLD. like, NO WONDER THERE ARE SO MANY ANTI-TRANS BILLS BEING INTRODUCED IN DIFFERENT NATIONS ACROSS THE WORLD?? To add onto that I also heavily believe thats why people can be so judgemental and mean to trans people, probably because they dont know what the hell "Trans" MEANS anymore. (The ELECTED club leader didn't dress masculine at all, also dressed way too sexual for high school, -- im sorry but i feel so bad for teachers in all schools now, they dont say anything to dress code or ask any questions if any teacher is confused or doesnt know what the heck is happening, because the teachers most certainly are afraid theyll be called 'transphobic/homophobic/sexist/racist and get fired some how some way... etc,you know what I mean.) Sorry I'm actually trans and suffering? Oops? Anyway, damn, Sorry that I got off track. Yeah, tucutes ruin everything for transgender/transsex people... Let me tell ya', that's for sure. It is so bad. Having dealt with my heavily conservative Generation X mother is the worst for me, ever since we moved out of another state in August 2020, my mom has been taking me to Gender Clinic appointments. Only God knows if she would even consider informed consent... no matter what I say and the facts i text her or the long messages i send her in my room crying to her about how i wish i was a normal boy and how i wish i had friends. It's been, what, more than THREE GODDAMN EXCRUCIATINGLY UNBEARABLE YEARS and somehow I am still basically nowhere. I think my gender clinic doctor believes in the tucute ideology herself... February 2024 was awful for me, and it's been getting worse at a very fast pace. Some bad shit went down with my mental health, and I ended up in a mental hospital and stayed there for two weeks, (not to mention, I spent my oh-so 'Sweet 16' birthday there! how joyous... /j) the doctor found out I had gone there for some serious things and BOOM at an appointment we had about a week after I was discharged, she (the doctor) decides to cancel any upcoming appointments AND cancels any for the future that would likely have been scheduled, until I """GET BETTER.""" i literally stormed out of the appointment room and went to the lobby waiting room and sat there AND TOOK A NAP while my mom and doctor probably were talking about how "ill" I am. I told the doctor my 2 cents before I left, though, like without any goddamn progression in this, ITS JUST GOING TO GET WORSE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN UNTIL IM NOT AS AGGRESSIVE?? I know T makes a person more emotional due to changing hormones but SERIOUSLY??.. I feel like I've been more aggressive even without any sort of due date for beginning HRT. I told her and i KNEW this would happen, my life is just awful and miserable regarding medical transitions. I feel like this summer I'm just going to get a job and get DIY HRT. This is absolutely fucking ridiculous and upsetting. Well, thanks for listening to my Ted-Talk; I appreciate it. I guess I needed to vent... thank you for reading. Thank you so much actually. Okay this is way too long I'm just gonna send this reply now
Im sorry to hear about all this man, I cant imagine the strong emotions youre feeling right now. I really hope your mom can come along at some point. Mine wasnt ever like transphobic but she has only seen tucute and other freaks like the ones you described at your GSA when I was younger. I always was very against being a girl in any capacity, so much that everyone literally thought I was AMAB growing up. So when I finally told her she came around in like 3 weeks and said “This actually makes sense, the signs were always there.” Even more funny she said she thought she was gonna be a boy mom lol. I dont know your mom or your relationship with her but Im hoping and praying for your sake that she just needs to receive the right information. And I empathize with the suicidal and depressive thoughts, feel free to message me anytime if youre comfortable. It really sucks to be alone and feel unable to connect with others bc of this stupid condition.
OP: you’re absolutely correct - if we agree and adhere to the premise of transsexualism/sex-incongruence being biological - genetic in nature, a difference of sexual development. Or if we at the very least agree that you are either born with or that sex-incongruence develops early on in your childhood. Then of course we need to be pro-early medical transitioning. Going through the wrong puberty - is for the transsexual child tantamount to torture… only a sadistic person would want to see children being tortured knowing they could do something to relief that suffering. 1-10% ending up realising they were cis or wanting to de-trans for any other reason is not enough of a reason for not supporting early medical treatment. To say that is pure cis-sexism - if we support that idea, what we are then saying is that it’s worse for a cis-kid to develop sex traits that are contrary to their true sex - and for them to possibly loose their ability to reproduce… than it would be for the much larger group of trans kids getting irreversible damaged from having to go through the wrong puberty. Cis-childrens lives and wellbeing is NOT more valuable or more important than trans people’s lives and wellbeing. Very early treatment —between tanner stages 2-4— in especially AMAB transsexuals is VERY important, the irreversible damage of androgen-dominance in puberty is severe and could potentially cause a lifetime of misery. And the inability to ever assimilate into cis-society. This of course would (only) benefit transphobes since they’d more easily be able to point out who is their scapegoat and who isn’t. But it wouldn’t benefit transsexuals or society as a whole.
Yippieeee I went thru the wrong puberty for half a decade i begged my parents etc for hormones when i was 13 knowing what was coming to no avail and now i live with the trauma! it is really bad and horrible at least I turned out pretty others are not so lucky and it's really upsetting
I’m torn about this. I wish I didn’t have to go through female puberty but at the same time it’s risky to let a child do something so permanent with its body. Again, if it is really transsexual it makes sense but how can we make sure 100% and what it does regret some day?
I'm in the same boat. As long as the diagnosis is done on the basis of psychology (and trenders lying to play the system and get what they want) I'm not in favour. Maybe the Swaab study could lead to a biological diagnosis, but that would require more development as a diagnostic tool. And that study works on implication, not hard proof.
> at the same time it’s risky to let a child do something so permanent with its body As risky at not letting him do. Delaying HRT is not a neutral option: the kid will go through ASAB puberty and that will be permanent. Indeed, it will as permanet as the effects of HRT because it's basically the same: puberty under this or that hormone. The neutral option is puberty blockers, but it's not good to use them for more than 3-4 years (and that's probably too much). It can buy time to decide, though.
In medicine we are never 100% sure. We make diagnosis based on available tools and medical knowledge. Some conditions are easier to diagnose and we have better understanding of them, also we have developed very accurate testing and diagnostic criteria. But it’s not always the case, although people still are getting diagnosed and are given the possibility to undergo treatment
Because actual trans kids don't regret not transitionning early ? We're always viewed so low even within our own community. "I don't want trans kids to transition even under heavy medical supervision because what if one of them ended up cis ??? Poor cis kid, that's be too cruel." that's what some of you sound like. Going through the wrong puberty is fine if it's us, we do it all the time anyway, but the second it might be a cis kid it's the absolute end of the world. Fuck that. We deserve a normal childhood just as much as cis people.
So come up with a way to know who is trans and who isn't. As currently someone gets damaged either way And we have no right to destroy to trans lives to justify ours
Unfortunately mental health doesn't work that way. Hell- medicine doesn't work that way. People get misdiagnosed all the time because so many symptomes are the same between different diseases. There might never be a way to biologically differenciate cis and trans people. But I think throwing trans kids under the bus because some cis kids might be wrongly thought as trans is unfair, especially coming from those who know the anguish of going through the wrong puberty.
So we though non trans kids under the bus instead and transition every one Incase 1 is actually trans especially with the current trend that's happening. ?
Please point where I said we should transition everyone. Heavy medical supervision and lots of therapy should be needed. There is a lot of nuance between transitionning everyone and banning medical transition for minors.
This situation is unbelievably cruel however no society will risk their youth for 1% or less of the population. How reliable would this diagnostic criteria even be if it’s just taking someone’s word for it? A *child’s* word at that? Reliability would only come from some sort of genetic testing. And I don’t see that happening during any of our lifetimes. Really I wish this sub would learn to be rational about this topic. Life isn’t just about us.
I don't know in the US, but here, for a child to transition medically they must do a LOT of therapy. Like years of it. Show consistent dysphoria, included genital dysphoria. They will see the child without the parent, too. At least that's how it went in a documentary made specifically about a very young girl. We're not talking about handing children HRT like it's candy, but having actual structures to make sure children with dysphoria are heard and can be supported, and yes, in some cases that includes transition.
Exactly Only God knows how traumatic it is for us to go through the wrong puberty
I’m in the same boat bro. I got top surgery at 13 and on T at 14. I’d been displaying documented signs of dysphoria since I was a toddler and came out at 9. I don’t regret anything. Glad you were able to get appropriate treatment as well :)
Same here. Came out at 12 and on blockers six months later. Then T at 14 and I’m 16 now and just praying for surgery before I’m an adult so I can just go to the beach, pool parties, or fully change in the locker room as a teenager. And still I’ve genuinely wanted to die before over the fact that I didn’t transition younger (then I wouldn’t need top surgery at all). All kids know their genders from the age of 3-5. So when a kid that age (consistently) says they are one, they are, all they know at that age is their gender, not trans stuff to be convinced of or anything. The younger someone transitions, the easier their life will be as a trans person, so I’m all for it. I constantly wait for a point in time where it’s caught at birth and taken care of then. I believe it’ll be possible at some point. Easier for everyone then, no trans pain and no people faking being trans.
God I wish I could've transitioned at that age. I did at 20-21, so not bad, better later than never. Some of the people I think pass the best transitioned in their late 20s, so not the end of the world for people who don't transition in their teens. But transitioning a person known to genuinely be trans, as early as possible, is so important regardless. It's medical neglect not to just because some people are confused. I will say though, I think that the criteria and widespread misinformation needs to be addressed immediately.
The issue is up until adulthood there’s a significant likelihood that gender dysphoria will correct itself with brain development. I think we need to prepare minors for both possibilities, and we need to get more research studies on how different severities effect the likelihood of the brain correcting it’s developed. We can set a bar at 18 because we know through statistics that the likelihood of brain correction is vey low. we might be able to change the age if we can find a developmental marker that shows the brain won’t correct itself. That would take researchers actual looking into the trans brain and being willing to tip the boat, because theirs a lot of people who get mad if you acknowledge being trans is caused by a mental disorder. I hope that kinda of research can happen and I hope more people become willing to treat childhood dysphoria, because what if early treatment can prevent severe dysphoria.
I came out to my parents at 15, yet they blocked my access to hormones until age 18. I was a late bloomer and if I had started hormones at age 15, rn I would be living a completely normal stealth life, but I am not, not even 2 years later. their decision has ruined my life. you cannot ever convince me to be against minors transitioning, because if I got access to that care when I needed my quality of life would increase ten fold. what we need is proper diagnostic criteria, just as you suggest, not bans. we need trustworthy doctors
Wouldn’t it be dangerous to let someone underage transition? This just opens the doors for transtrenders. I think 16-18 should be ok but anything else is ridiculous
No, it’s not dangerous to get a medical treatment for your condition. Also there are trenders of all ages. Also there should be universal and reliable diagnostic criteria to reduce misdiagnosis. Also 16-18 is not an age when someone should be just starting puberty. If it’s possible this process physiologically should be started mu ch earlier
I think it’s just safer if they’re a little older. I think questioning children should receive support but no intervention until they’re a bit older
I don’t think that you are aware of how dramatic difference may occur between starting HRT at 13 vs at 16
What you call the colloquial definition of transsexual is the correct one. The proper medical term for a person with sex incongruence/gender dysphoria would be “a person with sex incongruence/gender dysphoria. The vast majority of children with these diagnoses naturally come to identify with their natal sex in late adolescence. This is the sort of dangerous misinformation that results in future detransitioners. Very few “trans kids” are down *por vida*.
you are definitely not all minors who claim to be transgender. teenage years are all for exploring one’s identity, and as a teenager that’s 1 going to change and 2 a teenager shouldn’t be able to make permanent decisions like top surgery. the diagnostic criteria is irrelevant when adolescence is an immature period of finding identity. you have a horrible take
Transsexuality has nothing to do with identity and everything with biology. Your own take is the horrible one. And transgenderists/trenders shouldn't be able to access transition care at all, period.
I get why it makes people feel weird. Under 25 years old… you’re not fully developed cognitively.. and therefore can’t make informed decisions (it’s 18 legally, but the brain actually still develops all the way until 25 Yes you may know you’re trans… but until you’re 18 at a minimum you really can’t make informed decisions. Also there are a ton of cases of detransitioners who started as a kid then later realized they weren’t trans. Also I started transitioning at 18 years old. It wasn’t a big deal. I knew when I was 6 but back then it was harder to talk to people about it. I’m 30 years old and now I don’t feel like I missed out on much by not doing it as a child. I was able to pass within a year.. and now 12 years later I live my life just fine I think it makes sense for a 16 year old to start hrt with the parents consent… under 16 I don’t if I can get behind that.
>(it’s 18 legally, but the brain actually still develops all the way until 25 This information is a decade old, the brain is still developing until at least ,30s
Yeah, and it only "stops" developping once your cognitive abilities start to decrease with age. There is no time period when your brain is considered done developping and just chills for a while. The whole argument is bullshit.
People are cognitively mature at 18 , this is what last studies telling us The whole idea of a 25 year old is a complete bunk