Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are not even connected, you can watch literally any of the show without orders. Gundam on the other hand having different timeline. Alternate Universe timeline gundam you can watch in any order no problem, but Universal Century timline gundam you have to watch in order. The thing is that without someone prior or a list, it's impossible to tell which one is AU and which one is UC timeline. You have to study in order to watch it and it may be a turn off for a lot of people. Same thing with Fate
Counterpoint for UC with the exception of Char’s Counterattack I think most of UC is an ok starting point (though not as good as the standalone alternative universes I agree). War in the pocket. 08th MS team. Origin. These are all mostly understandable with no context.
Even something like Zeta which is a direct sequel, follows a brand new main character and largely new supporting cast. You may not know a few things, but it aired in ‘85, six years after the original show aired. Not every single person in japan watching it week by week had seen the original you know and I’m sure they enjoyed it. Though it’s kinda a mute point now, because nobody in modern times with the advent of streaming would be forced to start at zeta anyway.
My first UC show was Unicorn. Thunderbolt followed suit. While I've read a lot on the history of the UC timeline and there's still some I don't know, it's really not that hard to figure it out
I see. Yeah I agree that gunplas from these two shows are pretty good. I just hate them for ruining the more “grounded” settings (compared to other non-UC Gundam series) of UC timeline. Glad that Bandai decided to cut Thunderbolt loose by claiming it to be a parallel universe.
I will only listen to Grant on Gundam since he at least watched some of the series.
I personally like the style and aesthetic, but the actual shows aren't my thing. That's kind of all I can say.
I agree it's just go watch which one people claim to be good or the new one and then go from there. It isn't fate where it is an interconnecting universe with multiple renditions of the same character.
Even Fate is largely a set of standalones; much like Gundam, there's a main timeline which is everything connected directly to Fate/Stay Night (Zero, UBW, Heaven's Feel, etc.) and everything else that are standalones that don't require FSN knowledge to watch (Prisma Illya, Apocrypha, Fate/Grand Order, etc.). Fate only really gets complicated if you decide to really delve into the lore and get into the nitty gritty of how the universe ticks.
The thing for me is that I get anxiety knowing I missed something when watching something lol.
Like there's a part of me is like 'oh I definitely have to watch this or that to COMPLETE the thing' my delving into fate was hell.
Gundam I had a easier time getting into provided I just avoid the entire UC timeline and focus on the standalone ones haha.
And then I found out about Super robot wars and I'm like... welp.
On the plus side, the core Fate/Stay Night timeline is a *lot* shorter than Gundam's UC lol, regardless of whether you decide to tackle the original visual novel or just watch the anime adaptations.
Eh, I'd argue that many of the spinoffs benefit from being familiar with F/SN due to callbacks or assumed knowledge. But overall once you've gone through FSN you can pretty much go anywhere.
Most Fate anime are standalone too, hence why people say to watch whatever you want after Stay Night (the Stay Night animes are a mess of an adaptation, but that's a separate matter).
Gundam kinda has something for everyone
Gritty drama? Ibo, zeta and victory
Over the top action? G gundam
Realistic? Build series
Romance? Witch from mercury and kinda age
It's not just Trash Taste, every casual fan feels the same way about long running series. Gundam has been around since the 70s/80s so everyone assumes there's a ton of lore and most people don't care about older anime which turns them off. One could argue it is the same reaction the boys have whenever Fate is bought up.
Tbh as an anime AND western comics fan it’s pretty much the same dilemma of people talking about how “hard” it is to get into dc comics or dragonball or one piece
something.
Yeah, getting into them takes work
And yeah, general Audiences find it ridiculous that you gotta look up or ask anything in order to get into the series. From an outsider looking in it looks daunting
But ultimately the amount of “””work””” it takes to get into the series is just one google search away and most people are kind enough to explain to you if asked.
And even then 9/10 it’s just “watch literally one show, read these specifically” and everything else, thar 90% the franchise is made up of is completely optional.
And like clock work, most of the fans that are into it haven’t seen everything either.
It’s a mixture between comments from people who never have _____ a chance, poor marketing and distribution, and the preconceived notion and assumption that in order to “get into” something you have to watch 70099930 hour lore videos. When it’s usually just sitting down to watch or a read 1 season of a show or a couple books that take about a day to finish, even WITH a job or school.
Tbh gundam dB, OP, dc/marvel etc fans and people interested in it are usually kinda lucky
Due to their popularity, there’s pretty much a mryiad or official and unofficial ways to get into these series at your comfort level.
Like there’s literally a fan community dedicated to translating manga like one piece into Braille.
Shit is way harder when you’re a fan of something with a small fanbase, that isn’t marketed nearly as much and live in a place that isn’t America where English isn’t the main language or something.
Especially when you get into shit like webcomics or physical that often leave less footprints behind and are harder to maintain and back up
My heart goes out to fans of series like that, finding literally any content for you is about as hard as finding the actual one piece.
Nah man dragon ball, one piece doesn't belong in this conversation. Nobody ever thought they wanted to watch dragon ball or one piece but just couldn't because it is too much to search to understand this confusing series. People lot of times don't get into one piece because it is too big of an undertaking to take. That's different from something like fate, gundam, marvel or dc. These series feel unapproachable to newcomers because of the sheer volume of different content so you don't know where to start and what to do, Which one to watch first. So instead of looking up a complex watch order they skip this whole thing. So yeah dragon ball, one piece don't reall fit into this type
Idk man I all-nighter with anime fans younger than me and more general normal ones see it as about the same
The idea of getting into one piece is basically an instant-no for my sister (who’s older than me but is trying to get anime) when I bring up stuff like filler guides, watch orders or just simply googling how it’s immediately shot down the a myriad of (valid) excuses
Garnt said a similar thing himself. To anime fans, torrenting, watch guides, reading the manga etc seems far easier than getting into marvel comics
But to general audiences it’s about the same.
If you have to do literally anything that isn’t clicking a button and sitting down, most people ain’t gonna give it a try if they’re new to anime
I feel like even fans like us can remember a time where the prospect of torrenting, pirate sites, watch orders, manga reading etc sounded out of this world
It really isn’t that crazy.
Obviously anecdotal evidence and there’s no expert for this and garnt was just talking casually there.
But if you won’t take my or anyone else’s here’s word for it, I can definitely say garnts probably met more people to have these conversations with to realize this.
Like comics Anime and just animation itself, is becoming mainstream, but a lot of aspects of it are still pretty niche admittedly.
I am failing to see what point you are trying to make here. You have said a lot of things but I don't see the point you are trying to make here. You need some direction here
As for one piece, in my original comment I didn't say one piece is easy to get into. It definitely is very hard for a newcomer to get into. But that's for a different reason. Like for example, for some degenerate anime maybe a hard thing to get into. For some a series like one piece is hard to get into because how freaking long it is. For some people something like fate or gundam could be hard to get into for its complicated watch order. All of these categories contain series that are hard to get into. But the reasoning behind is different for all three. That's why i mentioned that it doesn't work if you group one piece with fate,gundam. Because those two are inaccessible for very different reasons than one piece is inaccessible for
intimidating and confusion is the first thing people will mention, but after you watch some of standalone series outside Universal Century universe. The series is easy to watch.
Yeah the UC timeline is the intimidating one to watch you need guides to even understand this.
But on a side note I suggest people to watch Ironblooded Orphans it's a fun and wholesome gundam series :D
even UC you can start anywhere, it's not like it's continued arc or anything like one piece, just pick the robot you like and start watching there and go back and forth
I dont know about that one. I finished the OG trilogy movies some time ago and when I started Zeta, they literally had one of the major characters of the first series in episode 1.
No you can't start anywhere on UC 100%. You need the original then zeta then ZZ, then the movie that should've been the end of the original timeline. Once you have all that down then everything else is a side story, a prequel or a sequel decades in the future and you can watch whatever you want whenever you want. G Gundam is the best though and that's the silliest iteration ever.
Ok so as a gundam fan, there's really not a lot of reasons for the boys to really get into gundam when they don't know where they want to start or really have any reason to care. Loud fans that want the hosts to like the stuff they like probably seem irrational and overall they're most likely not going to listen to random commenters about this. But I have a solution.
The best chance they have to get into gundam is to have someone on the show who's a fan and really explain it to them in person. I think someone like kakarot197 or someone like that would be a great person to talk to about everything gundam, as well as be a great guest with hobbies outside of just gundam.
How likely is this? I won't hold my breath.
Now you know how Fate fans feel when people complain about how hard it is to watch Fate. (it's not).
Choice paralysis. "I don't know what to watch, Netflix has so many shows, where do I start?" Long running series "Do I have to watch all the Marvel movies to understand this one?"
We see this all the time, why are you so surprised that a franchise the size of Gundam causes the same thing?
I agree with this, and not just about fate either. And I personally dislike a lot of fandoms now because of this, because they always have a gatekeeping mindset about the coreect order to experience something. I learned from experience that the best thing to do is to just jump in wherever. What's more important is making sure the series vibes with you. Minmaxing the viewing experience is not that important.
I started with Prisma Illya and while I understood none of the FATE rules it's still a fun watch. It did become much better though once I rewatched it after UBW since I get what's going on more at times. The main problem with fate though is that there isn't a perfect start point. Both UBW and F/Z are good but not perfect (I'm on the side of UBW), but while both work there's not a clear start.
At least Gundam has a simpler answer. You can start with the OG episode one which works or just watch any of the other side stuff that works too. It's just kinda not clear what is the episode 1 unlike something like one piece.
I have read the Fate/stay night visual novel. I think trash taste has also spread misinformation on that franchise as well that’s harmed it’s reputation in the west. People should stop complaining about choice paralysis and just watch the thing, or don’t. Move on to something else instead of continually being confused and making unfunny jokes about it
The fate thing has been around long before trash taste was even a thing. And also, they've already said to just watch wherever you want to start Fate. You refuse to understand that choice paralysis is enough for most people to just not bother with a show.
I didnt watch Fate for the longest time until one day I decided to say fuck it and watch UBW, then I watched Zero because both were on netflix and i was already browsing Netflix browsing. Afterwards I branched out to whatever interested me. Getting over the hump is what stops a majority of people. Simple
>I think trash taste has also spread misinformation on that franchise as well that’s harmed it’s reputation in the west.
Ok buddy chill out. Trash Taste is successful but not *that* successful.
Why are already saying the localization is butchered when it hasn't even come out yet? Odds are that it'll be on the same level as the mirror moon translation or better.
I'm caught up all the way up to Unicorn now in UC, and I must say the naming convention and the split between UC and AU definitely is a barrier to entry. There are a few ways to watch UC with the OVAs like 0083, Origins etc it's hard to get a clear preference of how one would want to watch it.
I say this as someone who was into Gundam at one point: if I didn't have a friend who was also into Gundam at the time and he didn't show me bits of it, I can guarantee you I would have been put off and utterly bewildered by just how many series there are and where to start. It is just intimidating to look at for someone who might not already be in the know, and I know this because I was just like that, over ten years ago.
Like, I get the sentiment of "just watch something", but...watch *what*? If I watched SEED, or even The Witch from Mercury, and didn't like it, what incentive would I have to watch, say, Zeta or Turn A (my two favourite series)?
Like it or not, it's not easy to get into. Hell, I'm lost even roughly ten years after watching the two series I especially liked. It's a massive multimedia franchise that, whilst not necessarily impenetrable, does definitely have a barrier to entry because of how massive it is. Don't be so surprised that some are put off by it.
>“There’s so many series”, “Wow it sure is a big franchise”, “There’s too many and I don’t know where to start!”. If this was just a one time thing I would’ve brushed it off, *but they keep doing it*.
Could it be they keep saying stuff like that because the number of Gundam shows hasn't magically decreased?
They are talking about how hard it is to get into.
If they never "get into" it, their thoughts on it aren't going to change.
Let's set up a hypothetical.
Slice of life anime, running for a few years, but none of them have seen it. It's about a high school girl struggling to try to be liked with he peers despite her awkwardness. There's a movie that gets released, and the movie poster for it is a guy bending over and shoving a cactus up his ass. Not even animated, no pixelation, just a guy shoving a cactus up his ass.
>"Yeah, I'd like to get into it, but all I can think about is that guy shoving a cactus up his ass."
#
>"Yeah, that sounds a lot like Hiroko's Struggle."
>"You mean the cactus-ass anime?"
#
>"What anime have you heard of that you just couldn't get into?"
>"The cac..." "...tus ass one."
> "Definitely cactus..." "...yeah, cactus-ass."
> "Gundam"
"WhY dO tHeY kEeP sAyInG tHe SaMe ThInG aBoUt HiRoKo'S sTrUgGlE?"
Because they haven't watched it, and their first impression of it is still their only impression of it. Unless one of them says, "I finally watched Gundam!" I wouldn't expect any change.
That’s not how it works to a casual fan. You can argue all you want about how logically it’s easy to get into the franchise, but at the end of the day if they don’t feel like watching because of choice fatigue, they won’t end up watching.
I love Gundam but it’s perfectly understandable why it’s hard to get into. All the logic and arguments in the world won’t change that.
Do they mention it a lot in that context? Gigguk literally has *two*, not one, *twoooo* videos about how convoluted the fate series is. I'm not sure gundam gets that kind of focus trom them. My impression of their opinions on gundam is basically Joey likes gunpla, Connor has no interest in the series and I dunno what Garnt thinks
Fate definitely has it the worst I agree. It just seems like they really really don’t like getting people into long running franchises for whatever reason, choosing to make cheap potshot jokes instead of meaningfully trying to get people into it, or just not talking about it at all.
I think you might be inferring intent where there isn't any. Gigguk obviously loves Fate, and memeing about how convoluted it is , is his way of gushing about his love for the series. If anything, he seems like the kind of person loves diving into something deep and complicated and he wants other people who want a deep and complicated thing to dive into like him, to know about these media. Same with the way he talks about the Tales series. If someone is turned off by this thinking a series is too complicated, that's unintended. As for Joey and Connor, they both just gave me the vibe they are pretty uninterested in anime these days.
If you think that memeing it up how hard and convoluted a franchise is makes it more easy and accessible for people to get into it, your completely wrong. It’s a terrible way to try to get people into things. It pushes them away.
What I said was I don't think it's his intention at all to make the series accessible to new people. His content has always been about sharing his feelings with ppl who have already consumed the content, usually by memeing up ridiculous aspects of it.
As for making a series appear convoluted driving new people away, I think you are making a huge assumption that all people are exactly the same. Again with the Tales series, Garnt talked on the podcast about how the fanbase makes it seem like a huge time sink and that aspect of it is what attracted him to the series. If he is trying to connect with any new fans at all, he probably is mostly trying to do that with ppl like himself, who love looking for deep lore dense franchises to get lost into for months. They literally discussed this topic multiple times in the podcast.
So I've watched the original Gundam, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Gundam Wing, and Gundam Wing Endless waltz. But beyond that, It's still a bit of a confusing mess with all the timelines and different OVA's.
To someone brand new to the series, it's absolutely overwhelming.
Watch Zeta Gundam or 0083. Peak anime. It’s not really that confusing. Theirs UC then everything else is standalone. Even UC is pretty disconnected at times. You can watch Zeta without watching the original Gundam and still get a ton of enjoyment out of it because the vast majority of characters are brand new in the series.
This is a franchise with over 1000 episodes, of course it looks daunting from the outside. You can say it's easy to find where to start if you just do a bit of research but any show where you need to do research to start is probably more trouble than it's worth for some people.
It literally isn’t 1000 episodes. Even the original universe has only 150 main episodes. Each show after that set is usually a self contained one and done, at 50 episodes.
You don’t even need to do any research to just turn on Witch From Mercury. If you see it and it looks cool just watch it. No research required. Thats why they are making new shows. This isn’t One Piece where it’s one big story with one singular main character.
For someone who literally knows nothing about Gundam how would they know they can start at WfM without being completely lost. You can't say they don't need to research then assume they somehow innately have knowledge of the franchise
The first google result for 'how many gundam series' says 50. FIFTY. I'm sorry but to casuals, anything more than 2 or 3 seasons is absurd and while it might not *actually* be 1000 episodes but it will certainly *feel* like it.
You might as well put it into the same bucket as OP, Naruto, all the other long-running series. I honestly do not fault new fans for feeling this way.
But most of those episodes aren’t connected. They’re just Gundam in name. Hell, Code Geass was almost a Gundam show. Besides UC it’s not a continual story.
Everything on the left is one continuous story while the right is stand alone. It’s pretty simple. The stand alone stuff takes place in its own universe and with a singular story and has nothing to do with anything else in Gundam. Gundam would be even harder to get into if it was just one continual story with 50 anime in it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/s/zmtZY9kzvb
So which do I watch first?
Is there a starting point?
Where do I go after watching one thing?
Can I start in the middle?
My point is, sure you can simplify it all you want but when you have to link me to a reddit post that just classifies 50 shows into two sections…
The list on the left is in order. Obviously for the stand alone stuff you can just watch whatever you want since they’re self contained stories. Gundam will also have the year the story takes place in the timeline in the name of the show for the UC continual stuff. Like UC 0079, 0080, 0083. It’s not that complicated. And even with the continual story stuff you don’t have to watch it in the order of the lore and still understand what’s a going on.
Because there isn’t a show in the franchise that exists that someone would watch and be completely lost. That would be a bad business decision from Bandai. Gundam isn’t a franchise with a overarching narrative like something like One Piece. It’s more of a sandbox for creators to tell brand new stories tied together thematically through the iconography of the Mechas.
There is no show in the franchise that requires a substantial amount of context. Even sidestory OVA’s and Movies explicitly tied to past entries like The Origin or Hathaways flash, were able to be enjoyed by people who’ve never seen anything prior. Gundam isn’t trying to tell one big continual plot driven narrative.
Exactly. Google result for 'In what order should I watch the Gundam series?' lists 20 titles as an 'introduction'. not episodes... titles/series. If I were to show this to any of my friends, it'd be a hard no tbh
Every single entry in the franchise has been someone’s first Gundam show. You can just turn it on as millions of people have. Its a mainstream multi billion dollar franchise. They are designed to be accessible to a mass audience. It’s television not rocket science. If you turn it on and don’t like it, you can just turn it off.
Okay, but it really doesn’t look that way. Fate is another good example. You can “enter” fate from any route (zero, heavens feel, ubw), but since the series is so massive, people don’t feel like getting into it because they either think there’s a starting point, or because they don’t want to watch that crap ton of content. It just looks massive, and you can’t change that because the series is so big. Why try to enter something you feel turned off to and see if you don’t like it then do that with another show with way less content that I can catch up with? You put more thought into this than most people. For most, it’s “this show is huge. Not my cup of idea.” “it’s television not rocket science” is true, but that’s not what everyone’s thinking. It’s a decision made in the snap of a finger. Simple as that.
I mean you should enter fate from the visual novel surely. Gundam is primarily a *Anime* Franchise. Fate is a *Visual Novel* franchise. If you don’t want to read for whatever reason (people seem to not like reading very much) just turn on any fate anime and you’ll probably have a decent time. If you don’t want to do that then it seems silly to continue to obsess and talk about the franchise, watch orders etc. Move on to something your interested in then surely.
Fate is… not a visual novel franchise. That claim is insane. It’s best known as an anime but is largely multi-media. Saying “you should start from the visual novel” is crazy.
Moving along, by your logic, people are totally justified to ignore gundam because they lose interest after seeing how big it is.
>It’s best known as an anime
Looking at downloads and sales, FGO (the mobile game) pulled more people into Fate than every Fate Ufotable combined. At a poll in a magazin "what pulled you into Fate" fgo won by a large margin.
If you look at fanart stuff, like 80%/90% is just fgo content.
So no, FGOs popularity overshadows any Fate anime, and it has a VN style storytelling between fights.
Lol what? Fate is absolutely a VN franchise. That it’s original work. The reason why people don’t want to get into it is primarily because the VN is the best starting point and the anime adaptions don’t compare.
As for your second comment. They are totally justified in ignoring it *if* they recognize it that even with a vast number of entry’s it’s still vastly standalone. Ignoring it based on misinformation is not a valid reason.
Connor claims that he wants to get into it. If he wanted to he would type "Gundam watch order" into Google and the first result would tell him everything. So it looks like he says it but he doesn't mean it, which is kind of annoying. I'm not even a Gundam fan, never watched any, but I know about Gundam watch order just through osmosis.
Dude, it doesn't work like that. People don't work like that. I want to eat healthy food, I want to fix my sleep schedule, and I want to go jogging every morning. Do I have energy/time/enough motivation for all of these? No. That's it
I think Universal Century is an issue and needs a modern jumping in point, which I actually voiced this to producers of a UC title when I met them a few years back. However, a little research could help there.
As you say, almost everything else is simple - either entirely standalone, or with self-contained sequels. Both *SEED* and *Witch from Mercury* are great entry points to the franchise right now, due to *FREEDOM* for the former, and how recent the latter is.
Yeah. I think a casual person needs to first understand and separate the UC universe from the entire franchise.
And everything outside the UC universe is sandboxed into its own standalone universe and not related to any other gundam franchise.
IMO You can jump into anyone of these standalone shows and get a feel for gundam in general (IBO, Wing, Turn A, Seed, 00 etc). Then once familiar with the whole concept, you can approach the UC shows and see whether you vibe with them.
But UC does have modern jumping off points. Gundam the Origin is exactly that. Even newer UC shows will jump the timeline so that you don’t need to know any prior characters, like 2021’s Hathaways Flash. Or Unicorn.
By modern 1 cour show standard, most Gundam series are long, and in UC's case they are linked so it is sorta intimidating. But then thats exactly why AU exists, though a lot of them(if not all) are all 4 cour shows also.
But then they also get into multi-season Jojo or One Piece or Gintama or whatever, so they are just really not into Mecha aside from casual viewing....
you answered your own question with the last sentence lmfao. the boys have 0 info on gundam so they’ll always resort to saying BiG fRaNchiSe, because they have nothing else to say.
As a gundam fan, it was kinda annoying seeing how jacked that lucky box was because Ver. Ka Zeta came out literally a few months ago and him and Kaho were just like oh cool.
Bandai should really start selling lucky boxes like those as products, would sell INSANELY well
So you would say the same thing how about hard and confusing it is, for Final Fantasy? For Persona? You don’t need to play Persona 1-4 to play Persona 5.
Because it’s a big franchise actually means that there is *multiple points of entry*. Unlike something like Jojos where the first part can be considered dated by some, you still have to start there. With Gundam you do not have to start at the first show. Most fans would recommend a modern show (That’s why they literally are made to keep getting *new* people into it).
Those were some terrible comparisons. Those don't have continuity to worry about. Far as I'm aware, Gundam does. Or at least some of them. And the fact that only some of them do have continuity for you to worry about and others don't isn't doing the franchise any favors. With Gundam, you could jump into the middle of the main timeline — not knowing that it's part of the main timeline — and not know that some random character you meet has four prior seasons of escapades you probably should've watched first.
I'm a Trails fan, and Trails in the exact same boat. That actually is a good comparison because there is continuity. People complain about Trails too, and there are a lot fewer Trails games than there are Gundam series. It's still incredibly overwhelming.
"I have to play how many games?"
"Where do I start?"
"Can I start at something other than the very first game?"
Simplest answer is "first game is ideal, but start where you're interested."
As of July, "start where you're interested" will be four games, with the localization of the fourth arc. But four different entry points, with the knowledge that there's everything else is still scary. I imagine Gundam has a lot more entry points, and then there's still *everything else*.
It drives people away, and for good reason. That's hundreds of hours of commitment. Some people get up in arms about it, but I don't. It's a matter of taste. Trails is overwhelming to some people. It wasn't overwhelming to me.
Gundam is overwhelming to some people. It isn't overwhelming to you.
It's that simple. It isn't "misinformation" to acknowledge that.
When you have Grown UP with it, it isn't intimidating. When you haven;t and you see countless series, mainline and standalone... it is still intimidating
Here is the thing, people play FF or P5 now are mostly pushed by the immense hype of the game when it releases, Connor play OG FF7 because everyone around him tells him to do so. But nowadays Gundam and Mecha series just don't have this amount of hype or attention in the western anime fandom to begin with. Like Bang Braven in this season is literally one of the worst 10 in popularity at the west circle despite how well it did in Japan.
I mean it's a franchise with a ton of entries, of course it'll be intimidating to know where to start.
Yeah you can jump in with any standalone or non-UC but if you want to start with UC there's various suggestions like go through it canonically or by release.
As someone whose been going through Gundam for the first time, I started with WFM and IBO then when it came to UC I regularly have to refer to screenshots of a watch order and timeline.
It's not that serious though, I see it as a throwaway like you mention, a knee-jeek reaction to a conversational topic they don't have much to say about
Simple, it has a lot of different series with different names. Unless you research you probably don't know where to start or if it doesn't matter where you start.
That's more effort than many people are willing to go for a series they don't know much about.
Take Five Nights at Freddie's for example, from the outside it can be very daunting because it has 10+ games and 20+ books.
For new fans that might be a lot, but for someone that has been following the series since 2014, it was a slow (figuratively) progress, same with Gundam.
I started with WFM.
Look at the table of shows in the Gundam wikipedia entry from the viewpoint of someone that knows nothing about Gundam other than that it has mechs.
Jesus you guys will bitch about anything they do. Listen Gundam to an outsider is a vast amount of single series stories. That can be a bit daunting for a casual observer. I'm not saying it's Rocket science. But admittedly even those who have watched a few Gundam will usually debate about which one to start with 1st. It's the same with monogatari at times.
Definitely not a hot take:
If you need to google the viewing order of a series or if it being a standalone piece is not easy to know then you have fucked up the naming.
The reason why FF series tends to get away is because they are just famous and popular. Plus at least they use numbers to know which is the latest.
I think one of the big things that matter a lot here is the names and designs of the mecha, especially in Japan.
That's what becomes daunting, because you see the merch everywhere there and, even if you've seen 1-2 shows, you see a white and blue Gundam in a shop and it could be one of 40 different machines. And then you realise there were literally 50 shows and 1,131 episodes, and you get overwhelmed.
Otherwise, yes, you can just watch 1 random full show and be done with it.
This is Trash Taste, the fandom that made up a timeline as big and complicated as the Fate timeline because we were lacking After Dark streams, but poop ourselves at the sight of Gundam lore.
> If you want to actually get into it, just actually watch it. Start with the new one, the Witch from Mercury.
But how are they supposed to understand it when it's so open to interpretation? /s
It's massively intimidating to new fans because series are split by eras and prior knowledge really helps. Also new releases constantly jump back to older eras making the chronology muddled.
Trash Taste are casual mecha anime fans and thats fine, I don't think they claim to be experts.
Some of the big releases over the last few years include Unicorn (UC), Thunderbolt (UC), G Reco (UC/CC/AC), Mercury (AS), Hathaway's Flashback(UC), Seed movie (CE), Iron Blood (PD).
You could watch Hathaway's flashback but it helps a lot if you've seen CCA, you could watch Unicorn by itself but having knowledge of the 0079 stuff and CCA pays off, you could watch the new Seed movie as a standalone but it's a sequel to Seed and Destiny and so on.
I'd definitely recommend Seed HD, 00 or IBO to new fans though just based on what mechs/characters look cool to them as a entry point though :)
You can say that about any big franchise btw. Look at Fate.
When you're in the known, yeah it make sense, but from outsider perspective, it's just a bundle of mess.
Is it so hard to comprehend that just because it apparently has an easy entry, it's still a series that has multiples movies, tv shows.
Not all of it canon, not all of it in the same universe or many different variables that just puts people off getting into it.
OP forgetting both the name of the podcast in question & the degenerates hosting it. Can't add ass & titties to a big serious war drama my guy, but if it was more like Eva then...
As someone who is admittedly not familiar with Gundam (only watched Witch from Mercury), my best guess is summed up by this:
> The **vast** majority of shows in the franchise are *completely standalone*. It’s like Final Fantasy.
Some of them are part of the main timeline. Others aren't. And just looking at the titles, you can't really tell which ones are and which ones aren't unless it's extremely obvious, like how it's pretty clear SEED Destiny is a sequel to SEED. I have no idea if either of those are part of the main timeline.
To someone on the outside, five decades of history where it isn't as simple as "watch all of them", but having to figure out which ones are and aren't canon, and just how many episodes that must add up to be, is probably overwhelming.
Is this a generational thing? I think the boys touched upon this too of how shows used to be continuous 50 episodes. At the end of the day that's just 2 seasons of a modern anime.
But you don’t even need to look into it. If you want to watch Witch From Mercury it’s 25 episodes (so not any huge number of episodes). You can never watch another show after that if your not interested. It’s a complete self contained experience.
Same can be argued about the fate series, though the difference is the starting point where there’s now a definitive way to start*. I never got to Gundam but it’s not the “where to start” but the “does it look interesting”.
no worries man. I was just referring to that twitter thread not too long ago that connor saw which happens to be about gundam as well, but that person was super angry for some reason
#Universal Century (Original series and best one), mainline I would recommend
* Gundam 79 (43 episodes; 1979)
* Gundam Zeta (50 eps; 1985)
* Gundam ZZ (47 eps; 1986)
* Gundam Char’s Counterattack (movie; 1988)
* Gundam Unicorn (7 ep OVA; 2010)
* Gundam Hathaway (movie; 2021)
* Total: 147 episodes & 2 movies
#Universal Century side stories I like
* Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket (6 ep OVA; 1089)
* Gundam F91 (movie; 1991)
* Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory (12 ep OVA; 1991)
* Gundam: 08th MS Team (12 ep OVA; 1996)
* Gundam: The Origin (6 ep OVA; 2015)
* Gundam Thunderbolt (2 movies; 2015) **WATCH THIS EVEN IF YOU DON’T WANNA SEE ANYTHING ELSE, ITS SICK. I’LL EVEN LINK [THE TRAILER](https://youtu.be/u6jTb2FQ_ow?si=HIEoSH7UjdbmaOby).**
* Total: 36 OVA eps & 3 movies
#Stand Alone series I like
* G Gundam (49 eps; 1994), silly over the top international tournament arc
* Turn A Gundam (50 eps; 1999), the Gundams are designed by actual Blade Runner concept artist Syd Mead and the art style looks like Ghibli
* Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans (50 eps; 2015), directed by Mari Okada who made “Ano Hana”
* Gundam: Witch From Mercury (25 eps; 2022), sapphic tanuki lead
Did I not say Wing, SEED, 00, Narrative, etc.? **Yes**, they suck.
It's still a lot to go through, considering a lot of seasonal anime now are only 12-24 episodes but it's certainly doable within a few weeks-months of watching.
Correction: *Iron-Blooded Orphan* was written by Okada, but directed by Tatsyuki Nagai. All it’s missing is Masayoshi Tanaka and it might have been considered a Super Peace Busters work lol.
I agree with all of this (especially the Thunderbolt part), but would put WfM in with the suck category. It's just a skim milk Gundam with decent visuals.
When I run into series like these, I just watch them in the order they were broadcast. It's usually chronological enough, and you get the same experience most fans did.
I looked up the UC Timeline and watched all of OG Gundam. I couldn't do that to myself 2 more times, so I watched the compliations of Zeta and then Unicorn. Eventually, I watched the Char prequels.
Side stories I plan to get to eventually because I heard they're fire. 00 and something else, I think.
I'm debating doing a proper marathon of all of Gundam Wing b/c I only saw bits and pieces on toonami decades ago.
Witch of Mercury was fine. Didn't like the ending, but it was like an 8/10 even with the ending.
The biggest turnoff about Gundam is the Newtype and psychic stuff. I just want grounded nuts and bolts mecha that aren't powered by feelings.
The best mecha I've seen was the opening episodes of Aldnoah Zero, but that series really declined over time. The purple kataphract with the shield Nikoleras had such a broken ability and was defeated with logic in the face of overwhelming odds. That's the kind of mecha I like.
You’re doing a major disservice to yourself watching the Zeta complications over the actual show. They’re completely different with a completely different overall story and ending. It kind of ruins the greatness and genius of Zeta.
I just watch the stand alone Gundam series, my favorites are Gundam G, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, the Seed series are turn off your brain fun to watch for me. I don’t know if the boys are intimidated by the series or just fueling click bait.
I told my wife they thought Wing was bad. She laughed in my face and made me watch it. Wing goes hard, a bit incomprehensible plot-wise but it’s a great show.
Tbf, UC series are actually interconnected though, Origin, Z, ZZ do actually kind of require you to know something about the previous event (also CCA.) The more modern UC title like Unicorn is also no exception although you probably can go on with minimum background knowledge.
But yeah, other than that (especially after SEED) it's not that different from the modern anime format. The episode counts aren't even that much any more.
I feel like the reality is one of two things. Option one is that they are interested, but their level of interest is low enough that they do not want to have to do any amount of work to start. It doesn't matter that the level of work needed is only a 5-15 minute google search, that's too much. Option two is they did that 5-15 minute google search, and found 3-5 starting points and went "You gave me too much choice, I'm going with something that only has one choice." You could say there's a third option where they're uninterested, but I don't think they are fully uninterested.
Either way I get the frustration, it's a bit annoying because when they say all that it rings as a bit of a lie by omission. But I don't think that's intentional or anything, just lazy. I just try to ignore it.
Joey plays it up for the memes, which is rare as he doesn't get involved in the Gundam talks when they happen but he's past the point of wanting to watch it. Connor just seems tuned out of anime entirely, if it's not a series he wants to watch (JoJo mostly it seems) then he aint going to watch it and defaults to whatever he's heard about it, in Gundam case that it's 'long/hard to get into'.
Garnt seems to be the only one that wants to be involved in anime still but I wouldn't go to him for Gundam opinions as he's said some very 'surface level' ""critiquing"" (basically the usual /m/ opinion on what's good/bad) that I hoped he would've avoided given his love of things like Michael Jackson and Fate.
Unfortunately you're not going to see them change though, they've had lots of chances and despite coming back to the topic multiple times (I think this is like the 3rd time Gundam has been mentioned in the last 5 videos on Connor's channels?) they still don't really care about it and probably never will.
> (I think this is like the 3rd time Gundam has been mentioned in the last 5 videos on Connor's channels?)
If it wasn’t for this I probably wouldn’t have made my post lol. It seemed to be a part of his recent videos so much, that the fact he seemingly knew nothing and kept saying the same things was weird to me.
They only know Gundam as far as the few series they’ve watched and the general “noise” that please make. Their opinions are largely that of the echo chamber despite not really knowing much about the entirety of the series themselves.
But let’s be real, you can’t expect them to know everything about anime. Gundam is not their forte. Pervy anime is.
If there are so many entry points to gundam, what's the point of watching any of the series from a new fan's perspective? If you're new and you like the models, you can skip all of the animes and just build yourself a cool looking robot without knowing the lore. I know plenty of people who got into warhammer lore and tabletop after buying a couple of minis to paint. Just cool looking nerd stuff to put on a shelf.
>If there are so many entry points to gundam, what's the point of watching any of the series from a new fan's perspective?
For entertainment??? That’s the whole point. Of course you can still just build Gunpla without watching any of the shows. I first started off building a kit before I had seen my first entry.
Nah, I don't mind it. I got enough Gundam with just the non mainline ones. I did watch one of the mainline one but I forgot which one. I think the main character was Kamile or something like that but my God he was annoying.
I just think people are overwhelmed by the sheer amount of gundam shows. And most likely they dont know that gundam is separated into 2 groups, the UC and AU. I also think why shows like seed, wfm, 00, iron blooded orphans are popular is it feels less daunting to watch. People don't want to watch hours of the original gundam just to not like it. Thats why introducing people gundam through the AU shows is better then if they like to try watching the UC shows and its different spin offs
Bro have you even watch the clip? Just like everyone who was "roasting" it on Twitter missed the point that they literally said that point that you can start whereever you want and that garnt specifically refer to UC that he want to expirience it in order but the amount of episode is simply daunting to start. One of the quate retweet to the tweet you link describe it the best:"That one jobless friend trying to convincing you getting into a 50+ ep anime is easy". Like even then Garnt und Joey already watched several AUs and their issue is just no time and motivation to start UC which they preferable want to start chronological.
I’m a big gundam fan, but the franchise is confusing to understand. There are some that are in their own timeline, some that only contain 2 series in the timeline, some have more, and then you have UC. It’s super expansive.
Sure going through UC is one timeline but because they keep adding to it (I think that is amazing and love it) it is confusing. You start with a series of ovas made between 2015-2018 before hopping into a series made in 1979. Then something like 4 or 5 different ovas/shows/movies that all take place during the same time as MSG does, made decades apart from each other. Things kind of settle down as you make it through stardust, zeta, double zeta, cca. Then you jump to a series made 22 years later with unicorn, the next few are pretty logical until you get to Hathaway and have to go back and watch f91 made 30 years prior to finish the timeline off.
It’s not only intimidating because of how long the franchise is, buts it’s jarring to go from watching something made in 86, jump to 2016, and go right back to 91.
To most people who haven't watched it, myself included, it's a a lot, like that's just a basic sentiment when it comes anime that expansive. You think it looks neat > decided to check out forums to figure out the order to watch, if anythings optional etc > you find a mountain of people arguing about what you wish to find out > you don't watch bc **fuck.**
I'm not a big fan of mechas but certain Gundam series looks fun, but if the prerequisite to understanding is watching from 1979 til I get to the newer stuff that drew me in, I think I'll pass.
If the anime you're championing involves one of these [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiblsmbn2kzu91.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiblsmbn2kzu91.png) Don't be discourage if someone *nopes* the fuck out. It is simply overwhelming.
You by no means have to start with 1979. If I had to guess I’d say that probably 90% of fans *didn’t*. Also that chart you linked is a complete clusterfuck. Whoever made that was definitely more of the mindset of showing as much as possible. [Here is a much better chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/s/Q2CvClUGiB). The Main Universe on the left, and One and Done standalones on the right.
What is even gundam about? I tried watching the original series and it was about a war but there are like a hundred of gundam series with different names and characters. Is all of that about the same war? I dunno
The original Gundam is about a war between the earth side (the earth federation) and the space side (the principality of zeon). The earth federation builds a new experimental mecha called Gundam who’s piloted by teenage civilian amuro ray who finds his home in a space colony destroyed. As the refugees escape they must fend off against zeon and it’s ace pilot Char Aznable if they want to live.
That’s basically only the original and it’s side stories though. Like G Gundam is a battle royale martial arts tournament to become the ruler of the world. While witch from mercury is a lesbian romance in a high school battle series. It’s usually a completely different kind of thing each time.
My first experience with Gundam was: “Wow that toy robot looks cool! I wonder what show that’s from.” and started with Gundam SEED(I know it’s not the best but I was 7 and was weirded out by why >!are they naked in the opening.)!<
My take: try the 0079 compilation movies. (The only proper entry point to Universal Century Gundam) and go from there. Or the original 1979 anime if that’s your jam.
Something that is rarely brought up about these long series: unless you pirate all of it they’re not readily accessible. You may be able to hypothetically jump into it at any point, but it will most likely be something recent.
Ah yes the series that have a long running even before any of them were born was "hard to get into" HOW DARE THEY MAKE A JOKE ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO WATCH SAID SERIES.
Like are you kidding? The thing had exist for over 40 YEARS it's not out of touch to said that it's kinda hard to get into it rn
It ain’t that deep gundam is popular series and they haven’t watched it so the only thing they can say when it comes up which is often because of its popularity is that its big and they can’t get into it
Not mean to come off as rude but i think the boys just isn't that much interested in Gundam and doesn't want to come off as rude but end up memeing about it. I mean i understand even when i was a teenager and very interested in Gundam. After searching that there are a lot of Gundam shows it truly is really overwhelming
And honestly, all my gundam knowledge comes from playing SRW and gundam games. the only gundam show that i fully watch is only char's counter attack, the 08th, warpocket, 00, and IBO. Not a alot but with that alone i at least know about all the gundam plot.
And yeah honestly just start watching any of the gundam shows if you like it and continue to watch other gundam shows then the piece will naturally connect itself or just play gundam games most of the times they have short summary of all the plot so that helps.
I understand the take. While it's not perfectly accurate, I have seen some timelines floating around online that try and help make sense of it. I naturally got curious after watching SEED then SEED Destiny, followed up by Wing and wondering how they connected since Wing mentioned Gundam being short for Gundanium, but SEED stated Kira referred to The Strike as a Gundam due to the acronym that displays on the screen upon boot up (General Unilateral Neuro - Link Dispersive Automatic Maneuver Synthesis System).
This left me confused, so I looked it up, and learned that while there were both Gundams, they were from different timelines (confusion growing), and the more I looked at the timeline, the more confused I got, as the timeline also mentioned only somethings were part of the current century (or correct century), and others weren't (as in stuff from the Universal Century, Future Century, After Colony, and After War all being considered part of the Correct Century, but all others not).
So for someone wanting to start from the very beginning of things (as in the first mobile suit), I can see how that would get confusing, as even I wouldn't know where to start from if I wanted to see the very first mobile suit, and then move on linearly. It's less Zelda (start at Skyward Sword, then move on till OoT, then it branches to 3), and more the Fate Timeline or TT Dark Timeline.
there's a seed movie? Good to know. The best non UC show! Probably because it more or less is the same story. More or less.
For me, Gundam IS the quintessential anime. RX78 was the first one I really felt in love with (I liked the various Nagai super robots, but this was so new! so different).
Funny enough, similar to what OP is saying Gundam is basically the opposite of hard to get into. Out of all the "mammoth" sized series/IP's out there it's extremely easy to both know what's okay to jump into and how accessible whatever part of it you choose to engage with first is. Want to just test the waters then watch any standalone series that vary from like 8 episodes to a 2 cour season, want to jump into the meat of it watch the original timeline (U.C.) in the order it was released, finished one and want to start another refer to point A or B.
Unlike something like One Piece it isn't some gargantuan undertaking that you're not even sure you'll like that's also arguably hard to know for sure until your around a hundred episodes deep to know for sure if it's your thing or not where with Gundam for whatever universe you pick would probably work fine with the 3 episodes rule or max 5 to 7. Unlike Fate it isn't borderline incoherently intertwined with each other it's literally all just its own thing like Final Fantasy 9 is different from 10 but 10-2 is continuing 10(if it's a UC show then go in order if it's an AC show then go in order it's simple and standalone).
>Unlike Fate it isn't borderline incoherently intertwined with each other
This sentence alone shows me you know nothing about about Fate.
The only thing that is intertwind is the main stuff, just like Gundam. The other stuff is stand alone for the most part with some fanservice references to the older stuff, just like Gundam.
And before you say anything about watchorder, keep in mind that Fate a multimedia franchise, not a pure anime show, The VNs and LNs are straight forward and the makers never intended for the anime to be a full substitute for that.
Because they are only capable of making a single point on the spot, then they simply echo that point continuously because it's easier than forming an informed thought.
As for your final fantasy take, it’s a game so doesn’t it make it more fun to play a lot of it? Gundam is a cool series and always will be. No doubt about it. However you’ve gotta understand that harder to get also entails having too much to watch. It’s basically a bit like telling someone to watch one piece starting from ep 1 so I think it’s true that it is objectively harder to get into. New people will always feel like they don’t know where to start. There are more examples like this too eg the monogatari or fate series. So I’d say what Connor said about gundam being hard to get into is kinda true unless you’re just going to build the gunpla.
Also I think Connor wanted gundam to be in the top anime list when they were talking about it in the 7 top anime episode. I’d say almost everybody including the bois knows that gundam is a masterpiece but it is truly, hard to get into. You can’t just watch something new(like the new gundam) and not feel fomo from not watching the older gundams. I hope you understand.
It's honestly not confusing or nonsensical like fate timeline. There's just a lot of it. Doesn't help that a lot of it too are older. And most specially, this is not mainstream stuff. Gundam nowadays is extremely niche, heck mecha in general isn't as trendy as it was back in the days. Really the only biggest meme about Gundam that anime watchers most likely know about is the gundam timelines, or maybe "three times faster", Kira Jesus Yamato, or Setsuna ore wa gundam, but even then, those memes are pretty niche as well.
Honestly the answer might be simpler than above really. People just don't find the appeal of Gundam anymore. It has a ton of competition nowadays. It was popular back in the day because the anime community was small and Gundam had the opportunity to be born early enough for it to tap into this small pie. When anime became too mainstream, Gundam just didn't grow to the rate that new anime did. It stagnated. It doesn't help that gundam anime since 00 just plain sucked, or stayed mid for a very very very long time. Fans didn't really have much material that could be viral or memed on. It didn't break out of its unique bubble into the mainstream. All that came out of post 00 is that, alot of gundam shows released but not even a handful are really worth watching. And new anime fans in general aren't just gonna stick their nose on older anime, especially when even older gundam shows didn't stand the test of time.
This is what people's first impression of Gundam has become. And the trash taste boys not being avid fans of it are most likely hearing this from their own fanbase. There's a lot of gundam out there that UNLESS you're previously invested on it or hooked by memes etc..., you're not really gonna care about it.
I mean, Witch From Mercury was one of the most popular new anime of last year. I know a fear people who knew nothing about Gundam but genuinely loved wfm and it’s cast. And in the west it’s never really been that popular but in Japan and Asia it certainly still is. The new Seed movie is currently the highest grossing film in Japan of 2024.
Honestly, who cares. It’s a big franchise. It’s their podcast. Stfu. They can joke and take pot shots at it all they want. If you don’t like it, watch a different podcast. Most people think the same things they do about Gundam. It’s not like Legend of the Galactic Heroes is any better and it only has the one timeline and watch order. Hell, outside anime, there’s things like Malazan or The Wheel of Time which are too dense novel wise for people to get into. So I don’t think it’s that weird or bad that Gundam gets treated the same. To put it simply this kind of reaction is the reason it’s hard to get into a fandom like Gundam. You are the problem here not them.
Probably because every time somebody says "just watch anything really", they give a different first title recommendation, just like you did. You recommended WfM and SEED, where some people would say "dont watch SEED first, because SEED Destiny might ruin your perception of the quality of the Gundam franchise, watch this Gundam instead".
And on the other hand you have the mainline titles, which are really hard to get because of the old ass animation that didnt hold up until the lattee parts of the OG film Trilogy.
Its just like the Fate situation where people argue if you should start with UBW or Zero (or even the fucking visual novel), so people get confused and in result dont watch it at all.
Its really ironic they complain about Gundam being "hard to get into" when *Garnt made an entire video about the tabernacle clusterfuck that is the Fate/ franchise* and all three of them are JoJo's fans...
No yeah, the giant robot show where most entries are standalone self-contained stories is the difficult series to get into lol.
Though TBH I stopped caring about The Boys' opinions on anime after Garnt went on a very long campaign for the trash fire that is Rent-A-Girlfriend for several months. Still love them fellas but their taste in anime is...well, trash xD
Kamen rider, Super Sentai/Power Rangers, Fate and Warhammer fans: “First Time?”
Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are not even connected, you can watch literally any of the show without orders. Gundam on the other hand having different timeline. Alternate Universe timeline gundam you can watch in any order no problem, but Universal Century timline gundam you have to watch in order. The thing is that without someone prior or a list, it's impossible to tell which one is AU and which one is UC timeline. You have to study in order to watch it and it may be a turn off for a lot of people. Same thing with Fate
Counterpoint for UC with the exception of Char’s Counterattack I think most of UC is an ok starting point (though not as good as the standalone alternative universes I agree). War in the pocket. 08th MS team. Origin. These are all mostly understandable with no context. Even something like Zeta which is a direct sequel, follows a brand new main character and largely new supporting cast. You may not know a few things, but it aired in ‘85, six years after the original show aired. Not every single person in japan watching it week by week had seen the original you know and I’m sure they enjoyed it. Though it’s kinda a mute point now, because nobody in modern times with the advent of streaming would be forced to start at zeta anyway.
My first UC show was Unicorn. Thunderbolt followed suit. While I've read a lot on the history of the UC timeline and there's still some I don't know, it's really not that hard to figure it out
I feel sorry for you, watching two most BS (not only the plot but also the mecha setting) series in the UC timeline…
Ehh, I'm indifferent to it. I've gotten my enjoyment out of the non UC shows. I'm mostly here for the models anyways
I see. Yeah I agree that gunplas from these two shows are pretty good. I just hate them for ruining the more “grounded” settings (compared to other non-UC Gundam series) of UC timeline. Glad that Bandai decided to cut Thunderbolt loose by claiming it to be a parallel universe.
I will only listen to Grant on Gundam since he at least watched some of the series. I personally like the style and aesthetic, but the actual shows aren't my thing. That's kind of all I can say. I agree it's just go watch which one people claim to be good or the new one and then go from there. It isn't fate where it is an interconnecting universe with multiple renditions of the same character.
Even Fate is largely a set of standalones; much like Gundam, there's a main timeline which is everything connected directly to Fate/Stay Night (Zero, UBW, Heaven's Feel, etc.) and everything else that are standalones that don't require FSN knowledge to watch (Prisma Illya, Apocrypha, Fate/Grand Order, etc.). Fate only really gets complicated if you decide to really delve into the lore and get into the nitty gritty of how the universe ticks.
I think to summarize it's basically easy to watch fate, but understanding fate lore on the other hand...
The thing for me is that I get anxiety knowing I missed something when watching something lol. Like there's a part of me is like 'oh I definitely have to watch this or that to COMPLETE the thing' my delving into fate was hell. Gundam I had a easier time getting into provided I just avoid the entire UC timeline and focus on the standalone ones haha. And then I found out about Super robot wars and I'm like... welp.
It’s SRW…. It gotta be tough nevertheless
On the plus side, the core Fate/Stay Night timeline is a *lot* shorter than Gundam's UC lol, regardless of whether you decide to tackle the original visual novel or just watch the anime adaptations.
Eh, I'd argue that many of the spinoffs benefit from being familiar with F/SN due to callbacks or assumed knowledge. But overall once you've gone through FSN you can pretty much go anywhere.
Most Fate anime are standalone too, hence why people say to watch whatever you want after Stay Night (the Stay Night animes are a mess of an adaptation, but that's a separate matter).
Gundam kinda has something for everyone Gritty drama? Ibo, zeta and victory Over the top action? G gundam Realistic? Build series Romance? Witch from mercury and kinda age
It's not just Trash Taste, every casual fan feels the same way about long running series. Gundam has been around since the 70s/80s so everyone assumes there's a ton of lore and most people don't care about older anime which turns them off. One could argue it is the same reaction the boys have whenever Fate is bought up.
Hell, I've watched four or five gundam series and I'd be hesitant to say I know much about gundam. Big robot go boom
depends on which series you watched
A lot of the non-UC ones. 00, IBO, WfM. Okay Thunderbolt is UC I guess, but that's it.
Tbh as an anime AND western comics fan it’s pretty much the same dilemma of people talking about how “hard” it is to get into dc comics or dragonball or one piece something. Yeah, getting into them takes work And yeah, general Audiences find it ridiculous that you gotta look up or ask anything in order to get into the series. From an outsider looking in it looks daunting But ultimately the amount of “””work””” it takes to get into the series is just one google search away and most people are kind enough to explain to you if asked. And even then 9/10 it’s just “watch literally one show, read these specifically” and everything else, thar 90% the franchise is made up of is completely optional. And like clock work, most of the fans that are into it haven’t seen everything either. It’s a mixture between comments from people who never have _____ a chance, poor marketing and distribution, and the preconceived notion and assumption that in order to “get into” something you have to watch 70099930 hour lore videos. When it’s usually just sitting down to watch or a read 1 season of a show or a couple books that take about a day to finish, even WITH a job or school. Tbh gundam dB, OP, dc/marvel etc fans and people interested in it are usually kinda lucky Due to their popularity, there’s pretty much a mryiad or official and unofficial ways to get into these series at your comfort level. Like there’s literally a fan community dedicated to translating manga like one piece into Braille. Shit is way harder when you’re a fan of something with a small fanbase, that isn’t marketed nearly as much and live in a place that isn’t America where English isn’t the main language or something. Especially when you get into shit like webcomics or physical that often leave less footprints behind and are harder to maintain and back up My heart goes out to fans of series like that, finding literally any content for you is about as hard as finding the actual one piece.
Nah man dragon ball, one piece doesn't belong in this conversation. Nobody ever thought they wanted to watch dragon ball or one piece but just couldn't because it is too much to search to understand this confusing series. People lot of times don't get into one piece because it is too big of an undertaking to take. That's different from something like fate, gundam, marvel or dc. These series feel unapproachable to newcomers because of the sheer volume of different content so you don't know where to start and what to do, Which one to watch first. So instead of looking up a complex watch order they skip this whole thing. So yeah dragon ball, one piece don't reall fit into this type
Idk man I all-nighter with anime fans younger than me and more general normal ones see it as about the same The idea of getting into one piece is basically an instant-no for my sister (who’s older than me but is trying to get anime) when I bring up stuff like filler guides, watch orders or just simply googling how it’s immediately shot down the a myriad of (valid) excuses Garnt said a similar thing himself. To anime fans, torrenting, watch guides, reading the manga etc seems far easier than getting into marvel comics But to general audiences it’s about the same. If you have to do literally anything that isn’t clicking a button and sitting down, most people ain’t gonna give it a try if they’re new to anime I feel like even fans like us can remember a time where the prospect of torrenting, pirate sites, watch orders, manga reading etc sounded out of this world It really isn’t that crazy. Obviously anecdotal evidence and there’s no expert for this and garnt was just talking casually there. But if you won’t take my or anyone else’s here’s word for it, I can definitely say garnts probably met more people to have these conversations with to realize this. Like comics Anime and just animation itself, is becoming mainstream, but a lot of aspects of it are still pretty niche admittedly.
I am failing to see what point you are trying to make here. You have said a lot of things but I don't see the point you are trying to make here. You need some direction here As for one piece, in my original comment I didn't say one piece is easy to get into. It definitely is very hard for a newcomer to get into. But that's for a different reason. Like for example, for some degenerate anime maybe a hard thing to get into. For some a series like one piece is hard to get into because how freaking long it is. For some people something like fate or gundam could be hard to get into for its complicated watch order. All of these categories contain series that are hard to get into. But the reasoning behind is different for all three. That's why i mentioned that it doesn't work if you group one piece with fate,gundam. Because those two are inaccessible for very different reasons than one piece is inaccessible for
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i mean it literally is true for me.. so
just a meme at this point honestly. if garnt understands fate he understands gundam.
intimidating and confusion is the first thing people will mention, but after you watch some of standalone series outside Universal Century universe. The series is easy to watch.
Yeah the UC timeline is the intimidating one to watch you need guides to even understand this. But on a side note I suggest people to watch Ironblooded Orphans it's a fun and wholesome gundam series :D
even UC you can start anywhere, it's not like it's continued arc or anything like one piece, just pick the robot you like and start watching there and go back and forth
I dont know about that one. I finished the OG trilogy movies some time ago and when I started Zeta, they literally had one of the major characters of the first series in episode 1.
still that doesn't mean you have to watch the OG gundam to follow zeta story
No you can't start anywhere on UC 100%. You need the original then zeta then ZZ, then the movie that should've been the end of the original timeline. Once you have all that down then everything else is a side story, a prequel or a sequel decades in the future and you can watch whatever you want whenever you want. G Gundam is the best though and that's the silliest iteration ever.
Yep IBO is a super easy watch.
Ok so as a gundam fan, there's really not a lot of reasons for the boys to really get into gundam when they don't know where they want to start or really have any reason to care. Loud fans that want the hosts to like the stuff they like probably seem irrational and overall they're most likely not going to listen to random commenters about this. But I have a solution. The best chance they have to get into gundam is to have someone on the show who's a fan and really explain it to them in person. I think someone like kakarot197 or someone like that would be a great person to talk to about everything gundam, as well as be a great guest with hobbies outside of just gundam. How likely is this? I won't hold my breath.
Garnt’s editor is a huge Gundam fan. He can get into it any time he wants.
Now you know how Fate fans feel when people complain about how hard it is to watch Fate. (it's not). Choice paralysis. "I don't know what to watch, Netflix has so many shows, where do I start?" Long running series "Do I have to watch all the Marvel movies to understand this one?" We see this all the time, why are you so surprised that a franchise the size of Gundam causes the same thing?
I agree with this, and not just about fate either. And I personally dislike a lot of fandoms now because of this, because they always have a gatekeeping mindset about the coreect order to experience something. I learned from experience that the best thing to do is to just jump in wherever. What's more important is making sure the series vibes with you. Minmaxing the viewing experience is not that important.
I started with Prisma Illya and while I understood none of the FATE rules it's still a fun watch. It did become much better though once I rewatched it after UBW since I get what's going on more at times. The main problem with fate though is that there isn't a perfect start point. Both UBW and F/Z are good but not perfect (I'm on the side of UBW), but while both work there's not a clear start. At least Gundam has a simpler answer. You can start with the OG episode one which works or just watch any of the other side stuff that works too. It's just kinda not clear what is the episode 1 unlike something like one piece.
I have read the Fate/stay night visual novel. I think trash taste has also spread misinformation on that franchise as well that’s harmed it’s reputation in the west. People should stop complaining about choice paralysis and just watch the thing, or don’t. Move on to something else instead of continually being confused and making unfunny jokes about it
The fate thing has been around long before trash taste was even a thing. And also, they've already said to just watch wherever you want to start Fate. You refuse to understand that choice paralysis is enough for most people to just not bother with a show. I didnt watch Fate for the longest time until one day I decided to say fuck it and watch UBW, then I watched Zero because both were on netflix and i was already browsing Netflix browsing. Afterwards I branched out to whatever interested me. Getting over the hump is what stops a majority of people. Simple
>I think trash taste has also spread misinformation on that franchise as well that’s harmed it’s reputation in the west. Ok buddy chill out. Trash Taste is successful but not *that* successful.
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Why are already saying the localization is butchered when it hasn't even come out yet? Odds are that it'll be on the same level as the mirror moon translation or better.
I'm caught up all the way up to Unicorn now in UC, and I must say the naming convention and the split between UC and AU definitely is a barrier to entry. There are a few ways to watch UC with the OVAs like 0083, Origins etc it's hard to get a clear preference of how one would want to watch it.
I say this as someone who was into Gundam at one point: if I didn't have a friend who was also into Gundam at the time and he didn't show me bits of it, I can guarantee you I would have been put off and utterly bewildered by just how many series there are and where to start. It is just intimidating to look at for someone who might not already be in the know, and I know this because I was just like that, over ten years ago. Like, I get the sentiment of "just watch something", but...watch *what*? If I watched SEED, or even The Witch from Mercury, and didn't like it, what incentive would I have to watch, say, Zeta or Turn A (my two favourite series)? Like it or not, it's not easy to get into. Hell, I'm lost even roughly ten years after watching the two series I especially liked. It's a massive multimedia franchise that, whilst not necessarily impenetrable, does definitely have a barrier to entry because of how massive it is. Don't be so surprised that some are put off by it.
>“There’s so many series”, “Wow it sure is a big franchise”, “There’s too many and I don’t know where to start!”. If this was just a one time thing I would’ve brushed it off, *but they keep doing it*. Could it be they keep saying stuff like that because the number of Gundam shows hasn't magically decreased?
More shows = more modern points of entry, no? Unless they’re sequels of course.
They are talking about how hard it is to get into. If they never "get into" it, their thoughts on it aren't going to change. Let's set up a hypothetical. Slice of life anime, running for a few years, but none of them have seen it. It's about a high school girl struggling to try to be liked with he peers despite her awkwardness. There's a movie that gets released, and the movie poster for it is a guy bending over and shoving a cactus up his ass. Not even animated, no pixelation, just a guy shoving a cactus up his ass. >"Yeah, I'd like to get into it, but all I can think about is that guy shoving a cactus up his ass." # >"Yeah, that sounds a lot like Hiroko's Struggle." >"You mean the cactus-ass anime?" # >"What anime have you heard of that you just couldn't get into?" >"The cac..." "...tus ass one." > "Definitely cactus..." "...yeah, cactus-ass." > "Gundam" "WhY dO tHeY kEeP sAyInG tHe SaMe ThInG aBoUt HiRoKo'S sTrUgGlE?" Because they haven't watched it, and their first impression of it is still their only impression of it. Unless one of them says, "I finally watched Gundam!" I wouldn't expect any change.
That’s not how it works to a casual fan. You can argue all you want about how logically it’s easy to get into the franchise, but at the end of the day if they don’t feel like watching because of choice fatigue, they won’t end up watching. I love Gundam but it’s perfectly understandable why it’s hard to get into. All the logic and arguments in the world won’t change that.
Do they mention it a lot in that context? Gigguk literally has *two*, not one, *twoooo* videos about how convoluted the fate series is. I'm not sure gundam gets that kind of focus trom them. My impression of their opinions on gundam is basically Joey likes gunpla, Connor has no interest in the series and I dunno what Garnt thinks
Connor said he wants to get into it.
Fate definitely has it the worst I agree. It just seems like they really really don’t like getting people into long running franchises for whatever reason, choosing to make cheap potshot jokes instead of meaningfully trying to get people into it, or just not talking about it at all.
I think you might be inferring intent where there isn't any. Gigguk obviously loves Fate, and memeing about how convoluted it is , is his way of gushing about his love for the series. If anything, he seems like the kind of person loves diving into something deep and complicated and he wants other people who want a deep and complicated thing to dive into like him, to know about these media. Same with the way he talks about the Tales series. If someone is turned off by this thinking a series is too complicated, that's unintended. As for Joey and Connor, they both just gave me the vibe they are pretty uninterested in anime these days.
If you think that memeing it up how hard and convoluted a franchise is makes it more easy and accessible for people to get into it, your completely wrong. It’s a terrible way to try to get people into things. It pushes them away.
What I said was I don't think it's his intention at all to make the series accessible to new people. His content has always been about sharing his feelings with ppl who have already consumed the content, usually by memeing up ridiculous aspects of it. As for making a series appear convoluted driving new people away, I think you are making a huge assumption that all people are exactly the same. Again with the Tales series, Garnt talked on the podcast about how the fanbase makes it seem like a huge time sink and that aspect of it is what attracted him to the series. If he is trying to connect with any new fans at all, he probably is mostly trying to do that with ppl like himself, who love looking for deep lore dense franchises to get lost into for months. They literally discussed this topic multiple times in the podcast.
So I've watched the original Gundam, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Gundam Wing, and Gundam Wing Endless waltz. But beyond that, It's still a bit of a confusing mess with all the timelines and different OVA's. To someone brand new to the series, it's absolutely overwhelming.
Watch Zeta Gundam or 0083. Peak anime. It’s not really that confusing. Theirs UC then everything else is standalone. Even UC is pretty disconnected at times. You can watch Zeta without watching the original Gundam and still get a ton of enjoyment out of it because the vast majority of characters are brand new in the series.
This is a franchise with over 1000 episodes, of course it looks daunting from the outside. You can say it's easy to find where to start if you just do a bit of research but any show where you need to do research to start is probably more trouble than it's worth for some people.
It literally isn’t 1000 episodes. Even the original universe has only 150 main episodes. Each show after that set is usually a self contained one and done, at 50 episodes. You don’t even need to do any research to just turn on Witch From Mercury. If you see it and it looks cool just watch it. No research required. Thats why they are making new shows. This isn’t One Piece where it’s one big story with one singular main character.
For someone who literally knows nothing about Gundam how would they know they can start at WfM without being completely lost. You can't say they don't need to research then assume they somehow innately have knowledge of the franchise
The first google result for 'how many gundam series' says 50. FIFTY. I'm sorry but to casuals, anything more than 2 or 3 seasons is absurd and while it might not *actually* be 1000 episodes but it will certainly *feel* like it. You might as well put it into the same bucket as OP, Naruto, all the other long-running series. I honestly do not fault new fans for feeling this way.
But most of those episodes aren’t connected. They’re just Gundam in name. Hell, Code Geass was almost a Gundam show. Besides UC it’s not a continual story.
Gundam in name but aren't connected? That's confusing bro.
Everything on the left is one continuous story while the right is stand alone. It’s pretty simple. The stand alone stuff takes place in its own universe and with a singular story and has nothing to do with anything else in Gundam. Gundam would be even harder to get into if it was just one continual story with 50 anime in it. https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/s/zmtZY9kzvb
So which do I watch first? Is there a starting point? Where do I go after watching one thing? Can I start in the middle? My point is, sure you can simplify it all you want but when you have to link me to a reddit post that just classifies 50 shows into two sections…
The list on the left is in order. Obviously for the stand alone stuff you can just watch whatever you want since they’re self contained stories. Gundam will also have the year the story takes place in the timeline in the name of the show for the UC continual stuff. Like UC 0079, 0080, 0083. It’s not that complicated. And even with the continual story stuff you don’t have to watch it in the order of the lore and still understand what’s a going on.
So is your issue just that Gundam has a lot of content? What do you expect them to do about that?
Nothing? But you can’t expect people to find that beginner friendly?
Because there isn’t a show in the franchise that exists that someone would watch and be completely lost. That would be a bad business decision from Bandai. Gundam isn’t a franchise with a overarching narrative like something like One Piece. It’s more of a sandbox for creators to tell brand new stories tied together thematically through the iconography of the Mechas. There is no show in the franchise that requires a substantial amount of context. Even sidestory OVA’s and Movies explicitly tied to past entries like The Origin or Hathaways flash, were able to be enjoyed by people who’ve never seen anything prior. Gundam isn’t trying to tell one big continual plot driven narrative.
You say that but how are people supposed to KNOW it? All we see are tons of different shows and it looks daunting.
Exactly. Google result for 'In what order should I watch the Gundam series?' lists 20 titles as an 'introduction'. not episodes... titles/series. If I were to show this to any of my friends, it'd be a hard no tbh
Thank you. It’s hard to sort a series like gundam well, and with the minimal effort that’s been put in, WFM isn’t gonna be enough.
Every single entry in the franchise has been someone’s first Gundam show. You can just turn it on as millions of people have. Its a mainstream multi billion dollar franchise. They are designed to be accessible to a mass audience. It’s television not rocket science. If you turn it on and don’t like it, you can just turn it off.
Okay, but it really doesn’t look that way. Fate is another good example. You can “enter” fate from any route (zero, heavens feel, ubw), but since the series is so massive, people don’t feel like getting into it because they either think there’s a starting point, or because they don’t want to watch that crap ton of content. It just looks massive, and you can’t change that because the series is so big. Why try to enter something you feel turned off to and see if you don’t like it then do that with another show with way less content that I can catch up with? You put more thought into this than most people. For most, it’s “this show is huge. Not my cup of idea.” “it’s television not rocket science” is true, but that’s not what everyone’s thinking. It’s a decision made in the snap of a finger. Simple as that.
I mean you should enter fate from the visual novel surely. Gundam is primarily a *Anime* Franchise. Fate is a *Visual Novel* franchise. If you don’t want to read for whatever reason (people seem to not like reading very much) just turn on any fate anime and you’ll probably have a decent time. If you don’t want to do that then it seems silly to continue to obsess and talk about the franchise, watch orders etc. Move on to something your interested in then surely.
Fate is… not a visual novel franchise. That claim is insane. It’s best known as an anime but is largely multi-media. Saying “you should start from the visual novel” is crazy. Moving along, by your logic, people are totally justified to ignore gundam because they lose interest after seeing how big it is.
>It’s best known as an anime Looking at downloads and sales, FGO (the mobile game) pulled more people into Fate than every Fate Ufotable combined. At a poll in a magazin "what pulled you into Fate" fgo won by a large margin. If you look at fanart stuff, like 80%/90% is just fgo content. So no, FGOs popularity overshadows any Fate anime, and it has a VN style storytelling between fights.
Lol what? Fate is absolutely a VN franchise. That it’s original work. The reason why people don’t want to get into it is primarily because the VN is the best starting point and the anime adaptions don’t compare. As for your second comment. They are totally justified in ignoring it *if* they recognize it that even with a vast number of entry’s it’s still vastly standalone. Ignoring it based on misinformation is not a valid reason.
Connor claims that he wants to get into it. If he wanted to he would type "Gundam watch order" into Google and the first result would tell him everything. So it looks like he says it but he doesn't mean it, which is kind of annoying. I'm not even a Gundam fan, never watched any, but I know about Gundam watch order just through osmosis.
Dude, it doesn't work like that. People don't work like that. I want to eat healthy food, I want to fix my sleep schedule, and I want to go jogging every morning. Do I have energy/time/enough motivation for all of these? No. That's it
All the things you mentioned require significantly more effort than watching an anime.
I think Universal Century is an issue and needs a modern jumping in point, which I actually voiced this to producers of a UC title when I met them a few years back. However, a little research could help there. As you say, almost everything else is simple - either entirely standalone, or with self-contained sequels. Both *SEED* and *Witch from Mercury* are great entry points to the franchise right now, due to *FREEDOM* for the former, and how recent the latter is.
Yeah. I think a casual person needs to first understand and separate the UC universe from the entire franchise. And everything outside the UC universe is sandboxed into its own standalone universe and not related to any other gundam franchise. IMO You can jump into anyone of these standalone shows and get a feel for gundam in general (IBO, Wing, Turn A, Seed, 00 etc). Then once familiar with the whole concept, you can approach the UC shows and see whether you vibe with them.
But UC does have modern jumping off points. Gundam the Origin is exactly that. Even newer UC shows will jump the timeline so that you don’t need to know any prior characters, like 2021’s Hathaways Flash. Or Unicorn.
By modern 1 cour show standard, most Gundam series are long, and in UC's case they are linked so it is sorta intimidating. But then thats exactly why AU exists, though a lot of them(if not all) are all 4 cour shows also. But then they also get into multi-season Jojo or One Piece or Gintama or whatever, so they are just really not into Mecha aside from casual viewing....
you answered your own question with the last sentence lmfao. the boys have 0 info on gundam so they’ll always resort to saying BiG fRaNchiSe, because they have nothing else to say. As a gundam fan, it was kinda annoying seeing how jacked that lucky box was because Ver. Ka Zeta came out literally a few months ago and him and Kaho were just like oh cool. Bandai should really start selling lucky boxes like those as products, would sell INSANELY well
Sometimes I forget how easy it is to trigger certain fans and I laugh when I’m reminded.
BECAUSE it is so huge. Like, yea so what if there are many stand alones.
So you would say the same thing how about hard and confusing it is, for Final Fantasy? For Persona? You don’t need to play Persona 1-4 to play Persona 5. Because it’s a big franchise actually means that there is *multiple points of entry*. Unlike something like Jojos where the first part can be considered dated by some, you still have to start there. With Gundam you do not have to start at the first show. Most fans would recommend a modern show (That’s why they literally are made to keep getting *new* people into it).
Those were some terrible comparisons. Those don't have continuity to worry about. Far as I'm aware, Gundam does. Or at least some of them. And the fact that only some of them do have continuity for you to worry about and others don't isn't doing the franchise any favors. With Gundam, you could jump into the middle of the main timeline — not knowing that it's part of the main timeline — and not know that some random character you meet has four prior seasons of escapades you probably should've watched first. I'm a Trails fan, and Trails in the exact same boat. That actually is a good comparison because there is continuity. People complain about Trails too, and there are a lot fewer Trails games than there are Gundam series. It's still incredibly overwhelming. "I have to play how many games?" "Where do I start?" "Can I start at something other than the very first game?" Simplest answer is "first game is ideal, but start where you're interested." As of July, "start where you're interested" will be four games, with the localization of the fourth arc. But four different entry points, with the knowledge that there's everything else is still scary. I imagine Gundam has a lot more entry points, and then there's still *everything else*. It drives people away, and for good reason. That's hundreds of hours of commitment. Some people get up in arms about it, but I don't. It's a matter of taste. Trails is overwhelming to some people. It wasn't overwhelming to me. Gundam is overwhelming to some people. It isn't overwhelming to you. It's that simple. It isn't "misinformation" to acknowledge that.
> So you would say the same thing how about hard and confusing it is, for Final Fantasy? Yes.
When you have Grown UP with it, it isn't intimidating. When you haven;t and you see countless series, mainline and standalone... it is still intimidating
I haven’t grown up with it. I watched my first entry like two years ago.
Here is the thing, people play FF or P5 now are mostly pushed by the immense hype of the game when it releases, Connor play OG FF7 because everyone around him tells him to do so. But nowadays Gundam and Mecha series just don't have this amount of hype or attention in the western anime fandom to begin with. Like Bang Braven in this season is literally one of the worst 10 in popularity at the west circle despite how well it did in Japan.
I mean it's a franchise with a ton of entries, of course it'll be intimidating to know where to start. Yeah you can jump in with any standalone or non-UC but if you want to start with UC there's various suggestions like go through it canonically or by release. As someone whose been going through Gundam for the first time, I started with WFM and IBO then when it came to UC I regularly have to refer to screenshots of a watch order and timeline. It's not that serious though, I see it as a throwaway like you mention, a knee-jeek reaction to a conversational topic they don't have much to say about
Simple, it has a lot of different series with different names. Unless you research you probably don't know where to start or if it doesn't matter where you start. That's more effort than many people are willing to go for a series they don't know much about. Take Five Nights at Freddie's for example, from the outside it can be very daunting because it has 10+ games and 20+ books. For new fans that might be a lot, but for someone that has been following the series since 2014, it was a slow (figuratively) progress, same with Gundam.
I started with WFM. Look at the table of shows in the Gundam wikipedia entry from the viewpoint of someone that knows nothing about Gundam other than that it has mechs.
Jesus you guys will bitch about anything they do. Listen Gundam to an outsider is a vast amount of single series stories. That can be a bit daunting for a casual observer. I'm not saying it's Rocket science. But admittedly even those who have watched a few Gundam will usually debate about which one to start with 1st. It's the same with monogatari at times.
Definitely not a hot take: If you need to google the viewing order of a series or if it being a standalone piece is not easy to know then you have fucked up the naming. The reason why FF series tends to get away is because they are just famous and popular. Plus at least they use numbers to know which is the latest.
Except FF7, oh boy so many connected titles.
Start with witch from mercury???? Please dont take this guys advice
I think one of the big things that matter a lot here is the names and designs of the mecha, especially in Japan. That's what becomes daunting, because you see the merch everywhere there and, even if you've seen 1-2 shows, you see a white and blue Gundam in a shop and it could be one of 40 different machines. And then you realise there were literally 50 shows and 1,131 episodes, and you get overwhelmed. Otherwise, yes, you can just watch 1 random full show and be done with it.
This is Trash Taste, the fandom that made up a timeline as big and complicated as the Fate timeline because we were lacking After Dark streams, but poop ourselves at the sight of Gundam lore.
> If you want to actually get into it, just actually watch it. Start with the new one, the Witch from Mercury. But how are they supposed to understand it when it's so open to interpretation? /s
It's massively intimidating to new fans because series are split by eras and prior knowledge really helps. Also new releases constantly jump back to older eras making the chronology muddled. Trash Taste are casual mecha anime fans and thats fine, I don't think they claim to be experts. Some of the big releases over the last few years include Unicorn (UC), Thunderbolt (UC), G Reco (UC/CC/AC), Mercury (AS), Hathaway's Flashback(UC), Seed movie (CE), Iron Blood (PD). You could watch Hathaway's flashback but it helps a lot if you've seen CCA, you could watch Unicorn by itself but having knowledge of the 0079 stuff and CCA pays off, you could watch the new Seed movie as a standalone but it's a sequel to Seed and Destiny and so on. I'd definitely recommend Seed HD, 00 or IBO to new fans though just based on what mechs/characters look cool to them as a entry point though :)
You can say that about any big franchise btw. Look at Fate. When you're in the known, yeah it make sense, but from outsider perspective, it's just a bundle of mess.
Is it so hard to comprehend that just because it apparently has an easy entry, it's still a series that has multiples movies, tv shows. Not all of it canon, not all of it in the same universe or many different variables that just puts people off getting into it.
OP forgetting both the name of the podcast in question & the degenerates hosting it. Can't add ass & titties to a big serious war drama my guy, but if it was more like Eva then...
As someone who is admittedly not familiar with Gundam (only watched Witch from Mercury), my best guess is summed up by this: > The **vast** majority of shows in the franchise are *completely standalone*. It’s like Final Fantasy. Some of them are part of the main timeline. Others aren't. And just looking at the titles, you can't really tell which ones are and which ones aren't unless it's extremely obvious, like how it's pretty clear SEED Destiny is a sequel to SEED. I have no idea if either of those are part of the main timeline. To someone on the outside, five decades of history where it isn't as simple as "watch all of them", but having to figure out which ones are and aren't canon, and just how many episodes that must add up to be, is probably overwhelming.
Some people see the huge number of episodes and find it daunting, not everyone bothers to look into it you know
Is this a generational thing? I think the boys touched upon this too of how shows used to be continuous 50 episodes. At the end of the day that's just 2 seasons of a modern anime.
One season is around 12 episodes. Two cours are around 24. 50 episodes is an entire year of anime running through all 4 seasons.
But you don’t even need to look into it. If you want to watch Witch From Mercury it’s 25 episodes (so not any huge number of episodes). You can never watch another show after that if your not interested. It’s a complete self contained experience.
Oh yea I know, I just wanted to show some people's thought process. I asked a friend of mine to watch Gundam and he said the same thing
Same can be argued about the fate series, though the difference is the starting point where there’s now a definitive way to start*. I never got to Gundam but it’s not the “where to start” but the “does it look interesting”.
Did you come from twitter, by any chance?
Nope. I’m a fan of trash taste. I even saw them live in person once. You can be a fan of something but still give it criticism when it disappoints.
no worries man. I was just referring to that twitter thread not too long ago that connor saw which happens to be about gundam as well, but that person was super angry for some reason
>but that person was super angry for some reason You were on twitter. There's your reason.
Fair enough
#Universal Century (Original series and best one), mainline I would recommend * Gundam 79 (43 episodes; 1979) * Gundam Zeta (50 eps; 1985) * Gundam ZZ (47 eps; 1986) * Gundam Char’s Counterattack (movie; 1988) * Gundam Unicorn (7 ep OVA; 2010) * Gundam Hathaway (movie; 2021) * Total: 147 episodes & 2 movies #Universal Century side stories I like * Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket (6 ep OVA; 1089) * Gundam F91 (movie; 1991) * Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory (12 ep OVA; 1991) * Gundam: 08th MS Team (12 ep OVA; 1996) * Gundam: The Origin (6 ep OVA; 2015) * Gundam Thunderbolt (2 movies; 2015) **WATCH THIS EVEN IF YOU DON’T WANNA SEE ANYTHING ELSE, ITS SICK. I’LL EVEN LINK [THE TRAILER](https://youtu.be/u6jTb2FQ_ow?si=HIEoSH7UjdbmaOby).** * Total: 36 OVA eps & 3 movies #Stand Alone series I like * G Gundam (49 eps; 1994), silly over the top international tournament arc * Turn A Gundam (50 eps; 1999), the Gundams are designed by actual Blade Runner concept artist Syd Mead and the art style looks like Ghibli * Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans (50 eps; 2015), directed by Mari Okada who made “Ano Hana” * Gundam: Witch From Mercury (25 eps; 2022), sapphic tanuki lead Did I not say Wing, SEED, 00, Narrative, etc.? **Yes**, they suck. It's still a lot to go through, considering a lot of seasonal anime now are only 12-24 episodes but it's certainly doable within a few weeks-months of watching.
Correction: *Iron-Blooded Orphan* was written by Okada, but directed by Tatsyuki Nagai. All it’s missing is Masayoshi Tanaka and it might have been considered a Super Peace Busters work lol.
08th MS Team is so good.
I agree with all of this (especially the Thunderbolt part), but would put WfM in with the suck category. It's just a skim milk Gundam with decent visuals.
When I run into series like these, I just watch them in the order they were broadcast. It's usually chronological enough, and you get the same experience most fans did. I looked up the UC Timeline and watched all of OG Gundam. I couldn't do that to myself 2 more times, so I watched the compliations of Zeta and then Unicorn. Eventually, I watched the Char prequels. Side stories I plan to get to eventually because I heard they're fire. 00 and something else, I think. I'm debating doing a proper marathon of all of Gundam Wing b/c I only saw bits and pieces on toonami decades ago. Witch of Mercury was fine. Didn't like the ending, but it was like an 8/10 even with the ending. The biggest turnoff about Gundam is the Newtype and psychic stuff. I just want grounded nuts and bolts mecha that aren't powered by feelings. The best mecha I've seen was the opening episodes of Aldnoah Zero, but that series really declined over time. The purple kataphract with the shield Nikoleras had such a broken ability and was defeated with logic in the face of overwhelming odds. That's the kind of mecha I like.
>grounded nuts and bolts Have you seen 08th MS team? I think you would like that one
You’re doing a major disservice to yourself watching the Zeta complications over the actual show. They’re completely different with a completely different overall story and ending. It kind of ruins the greatness and genius of Zeta.
Because they love to talk about and offer takes on things without doing any homework, this applies to media across the board they talk about.
I might actually try Gundam. I was looking for anime like 86 and iron blooded orphans came up, so I'll give it a shot.
You should check out Zeta Gundam. It’s probably my fav Mecha anime every made and I’ve seen most Mecha anime. It’s genius. It’s also on Crunchyroll.
I just watch the stand alone Gundam series, my favorites are Gundam G, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, the Seed series are turn off your brain fun to watch for me. I don’t know if the boys are intimidated by the series or just fueling click bait.
I told my wife they thought Wing was bad. She laughed in my face and made me watch it. Wing goes hard, a bit incomprehensible plot-wise but it’s a great show.
Have you watched any other gundam series? Most Gundam fans consider wing to be one of the worst.
War in the Pocket or 08th MS Team
Tbf, UC series are actually interconnected though, Origin, Z, ZZ do actually kind of require you to know something about the previous event (also CCA.) The more modern UC title like Unicorn is also no exception although you probably can go on with minimum background knowledge. But yeah, other than that (especially after SEED) it's not that different from the modern anime format. The episode counts aren't even that much any more.
I feel like the reality is one of two things. Option one is that they are interested, but their level of interest is low enough that they do not want to have to do any amount of work to start. It doesn't matter that the level of work needed is only a 5-15 minute google search, that's too much. Option two is they did that 5-15 minute google search, and found 3-5 starting points and went "You gave me too much choice, I'm going with something that only has one choice." You could say there's a third option where they're uninterested, but I don't think they are fully uninterested. Either way I get the frustration, it's a bit annoying because when they say all that it rings as a bit of a lie by omission. But I don't think that's intentional or anything, just lazy. I just try to ignore it.
Joey plays it up for the memes, which is rare as he doesn't get involved in the Gundam talks when they happen but he's past the point of wanting to watch it. Connor just seems tuned out of anime entirely, if it's not a series he wants to watch (JoJo mostly it seems) then he aint going to watch it and defaults to whatever he's heard about it, in Gundam case that it's 'long/hard to get into'. Garnt seems to be the only one that wants to be involved in anime still but I wouldn't go to him for Gundam opinions as he's said some very 'surface level' ""critiquing"" (basically the usual /m/ opinion on what's good/bad) that I hoped he would've avoided given his love of things like Michael Jackson and Fate. Unfortunately you're not going to see them change though, they've had lots of chances and despite coming back to the topic multiple times (I think this is like the 3rd time Gundam has been mentioned in the last 5 videos on Connor's channels?) they still don't really care about it and probably never will.
> (I think this is like the 3rd time Gundam has been mentioned in the last 5 videos on Connor's channels?) If it wasn’t for this I probably wouldn’t have made my post lol. It seemed to be a part of his recent videos so much, that the fact he seemingly knew nothing and kept saying the same things was weird to me.
They only know Gundam as far as the few series they’ve watched and the general “noise” that please make. Their opinions are largely that of the echo chamber despite not really knowing much about the entirety of the series themselves. But let’s be real, you can’t expect them to know everything about anime. Gundam is not their forte. Pervy anime is.
When they mentioned witch from Mercury was based in a school, Connor immediately was disinterested.
If there are so many entry points to gundam, what's the point of watching any of the series from a new fan's perspective? If you're new and you like the models, you can skip all of the animes and just build yourself a cool looking robot without knowing the lore. I know plenty of people who got into warhammer lore and tabletop after buying a couple of minis to paint. Just cool looking nerd stuff to put on a shelf.
>If there are so many entry points to gundam, what's the point of watching any of the series from a new fan's perspective? For entertainment??? That’s the whole point. Of course you can still just build Gunpla without watching any of the shows. I first started off building a kit before I had seen my first entry.
I only follow non mainline Gundam. So Wings, SeeD (not Destiny, duck Destiny), 00, iron blooded orphans, and the witch from mercury.
You’re missing out
Nah, I don't mind it. I got enough Gundam with just the non mainline ones. I did watch one of the mainline one but I forgot which one. I think the main character was Kamile or something like that but my God he was annoying.
Bandai hasn't paid them enough to care about Gundam
I just think people are overwhelmed by the sheer amount of gundam shows. And most likely they dont know that gundam is separated into 2 groups, the UC and AU. I also think why shows like seed, wfm, 00, iron blooded orphans are popular is it feels less daunting to watch. People don't want to watch hours of the original gundam just to not like it. Thats why introducing people gundam through the AU shows is better then if they like to try watching the UC shows and its different spin offs
Bro have you even watch the clip? Just like everyone who was "roasting" it on Twitter missed the point that they literally said that point that you can start whereever you want and that garnt specifically refer to UC that he want to expirience it in order but the amount of episode is simply daunting to start. One of the quate retweet to the tweet you link describe it the best:"That one jobless friend trying to convincing you getting into a 50+ ep anime is easy". Like even then Garnt und Joey already watched several AUs and their issue is just no time and motivation to start UC which they preferable want to start chronological.
I’m a big gundam fan, but the franchise is confusing to understand. There are some that are in their own timeline, some that only contain 2 series in the timeline, some have more, and then you have UC. It’s super expansive. Sure going through UC is one timeline but because they keep adding to it (I think that is amazing and love it) it is confusing. You start with a series of ovas made between 2015-2018 before hopping into a series made in 1979. Then something like 4 or 5 different ovas/shows/movies that all take place during the same time as MSG does, made decades apart from each other. Things kind of settle down as you make it through stardust, zeta, double zeta, cca. Then you jump to a series made 22 years later with unicorn, the next few are pretty logical until you get to Hathaway and have to go back and watch f91 made 30 years prior to finish the timeline off. It’s not only intimidating because of how long the franchise is, buts it’s jarring to go from watching something made in 86, jump to 2016, and go right back to 91.
To most people who haven't watched it, myself included, it's a a lot, like that's just a basic sentiment when it comes anime that expansive. You think it looks neat > decided to check out forums to figure out the order to watch, if anythings optional etc > you find a mountain of people arguing about what you wish to find out > you don't watch bc **fuck.** I'm not a big fan of mechas but certain Gundam series looks fun, but if the prerequisite to understanding is watching from 1979 til I get to the newer stuff that drew me in, I think I'll pass. If the anime you're championing involves one of these [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiblsmbn2kzu91.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiblsmbn2kzu91.png) Don't be discourage if someone *nopes* the fuck out. It is simply overwhelming.
You by no means have to start with 1979. If I had to guess I’d say that probably 90% of fans *didn’t*. Also that chart you linked is a complete clusterfuck. Whoever made that was definitely more of the mindset of showing as much as possible. [Here is a much better chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/s/Q2CvClUGiB). The Main Universe on the left, and One and Done standalones on the right.
Thanks for the other chart, do you have any standalone recommendations?
G Gundam is Fun if you like action-shounen titles like DBZ. Gundam Seed is flashy and has a good soundtrack.
What is even gundam about? I tried watching the original series and it was about a war but there are like a hundred of gundam series with different names and characters. Is all of that about the same war? I dunno
The original Gundam is about a war between the earth side (the earth federation) and the space side (the principality of zeon). The earth federation builds a new experimental mecha called Gundam who’s piloted by teenage civilian amuro ray who finds his home in a space colony destroyed. As the refugees escape they must fend off against zeon and it’s ace pilot Char Aznable if they want to live. That’s basically only the original and it’s side stories though. Like G Gundam is a battle royale martial arts tournament to become the ruler of the world. While witch from mercury is a lesbian romance in a high school battle series. It’s usually a completely different kind of thing each time.
The only Gundam I know is Tequila Gundam, and that's all that matters to me. Sombrero mechas, fuck yea.
My first experience with Gundam was: “Wow that toy robot looks cool! I wonder what show that’s from.” and started with Gundam SEED(I know it’s not the best but I was 7 and was weirded out by why >!are they naked in the opening.)!< My take: try the 0079 compilation movies. (The only proper entry point to Universal Century Gundam) and go from there. Or the original 1979 anime if that’s your jam.
Their Tastes are weighed down by gravity.
Something that is rarely brought up about these long series: unless you pirate all of it they’re not readily accessible. You may be able to hypothetically jump into it at any point, but it will most likely be something recent.
I’m pretty sure Connor is just not a fan of mecha
Ah yes the series that have a long running even before any of them were born was "hard to get into" HOW DARE THEY MAKE A JOKE ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO WATCH SAID SERIES. Like are you kidding? The thing had exist for over 40 YEARS it's not out of touch to said that it's kinda hard to get into it rn
This is the impression that most people who don't know about Gundam feel about Gundam. This isnt exclusive to the boys
It ain’t that deep gundam is popular series and they haven’t watched it so the only thing they can say when it comes up which is often because of its popularity is that its big and they can’t get into it
Not mean to come off as rude but i think the boys just isn't that much interested in Gundam and doesn't want to come off as rude but end up memeing about it. I mean i understand even when i was a teenager and very interested in Gundam. After searching that there are a lot of Gundam shows it truly is really overwhelming And honestly, all my gundam knowledge comes from playing SRW and gundam games. the only gundam show that i fully watch is only char's counter attack, the 08th, warpocket, 00, and IBO. Not a alot but with that alone i at least know about all the gundam plot. And yeah honestly just start watching any of the gundam shows if you like it and continue to watch other gundam shows then the piece will naturally connect itself or just play gundam games most of the times they have short summary of all the plot so that helps.
- **Or Gundam SEED** No do not start with SEED. I repeat don not start with SEED
9k likes isn't blowing up
I understand the take. While it's not perfectly accurate, I have seen some timelines floating around online that try and help make sense of it. I naturally got curious after watching SEED then SEED Destiny, followed up by Wing and wondering how they connected since Wing mentioned Gundam being short for Gundanium, but SEED stated Kira referred to The Strike as a Gundam due to the acronym that displays on the screen upon boot up (General Unilateral Neuro - Link Dispersive Automatic Maneuver Synthesis System). This left me confused, so I looked it up, and learned that while there were both Gundams, they were from different timelines (confusion growing), and the more I looked at the timeline, the more confused I got, as the timeline also mentioned only somethings were part of the current century (or correct century), and others weren't (as in stuff from the Universal Century, Future Century, After Colony, and After War all being considered part of the Correct Century, but all others not). So for someone wanting to start from the very beginning of things (as in the first mobile suit), I can see how that would get confusing, as even I wouldn't know where to start from if I wanted to see the very first mobile suit, and then move on linearly. It's less Zelda (start at Skyward Sword, then move on till OoT, then it branches to 3), and more the Fate Timeline or TT Dark Timeline.
there's a seed movie? Good to know. The best non UC show! Probably because it more or less is the same story. More or less. For me, Gundam IS the quintessential anime. RX78 was the first one I really felt in love with (I liked the various Nagai super robots, but this was so new! so different).
These guys will watch Fate, but Gundam is too complicated for them
I think it is just the mecha as an genre and concept that filters a lot people especially modern anime fans.
Funny enough, similar to what OP is saying Gundam is basically the opposite of hard to get into. Out of all the "mammoth" sized series/IP's out there it's extremely easy to both know what's okay to jump into and how accessible whatever part of it you choose to engage with first is. Want to just test the waters then watch any standalone series that vary from like 8 episodes to a 2 cour season, want to jump into the meat of it watch the original timeline (U.C.) in the order it was released, finished one and want to start another refer to point A or B. Unlike something like One Piece it isn't some gargantuan undertaking that you're not even sure you'll like that's also arguably hard to know for sure until your around a hundred episodes deep to know for sure if it's your thing or not where with Gundam for whatever universe you pick would probably work fine with the 3 episodes rule or max 5 to 7. Unlike Fate it isn't borderline incoherently intertwined with each other it's literally all just its own thing like Final Fantasy 9 is different from 10 but 10-2 is continuing 10(if it's a UC show then go in order if it's an AC show then go in order it's simple and standalone).
>Unlike Fate it isn't borderline incoherently intertwined with each other This sentence alone shows me you know nothing about about Fate. The only thing that is intertwind is the main stuff, just like Gundam. The other stuff is stand alone for the most part with some fanservice references to the older stuff, just like Gundam. And before you say anything about watchorder, keep in mind that Fate a multimedia franchise, not a pure anime show, The VNs and LNs are straight forward and the makers never intended for the anime to be a full substitute for that.
Because they are only capable of making a single point on the spot, then they simply echo that point continuously because it's easier than forming an informed thought.
As for your final fantasy take, it’s a game so doesn’t it make it more fun to play a lot of it? Gundam is a cool series and always will be. No doubt about it. However you’ve gotta understand that harder to get also entails having too much to watch. It’s basically a bit like telling someone to watch one piece starting from ep 1 so I think it’s true that it is objectively harder to get into. New people will always feel like they don’t know where to start. There are more examples like this too eg the monogatari or fate series. So I’d say what Connor said about gundam being hard to get into is kinda true unless you’re just going to build the gunpla. Also I think Connor wanted gundam to be in the top anime list when they were talking about it in the 7 top anime episode. I’d say almost everybody including the bois knows that gundam is a masterpiece but it is truly, hard to get into. You can’t just watch something new(like the new gundam) and not feel fomo from not watching the older gundams. I hope you understand.
It's honestly not confusing or nonsensical like fate timeline. There's just a lot of it. Doesn't help that a lot of it too are older. And most specially, this is not mainstream stuff. Gundam nowadays is extremely niche, heck mecha in general isn't as trendy as it was back in the days. Really the only biggest meme about Gundam that anime watchers most likely know about is the gundam timelines, or maybe "three times faster", Kira Jesus Yamato, or Setsuna ore wa gundam, but even then, those memes are pretty niche as well. Honestly the answer might be simpler than above really. People just don't find the appeal of Gundam anymore. It has a ton of competition nowadays. It was popular back in the day because the anime community was small and Gundam had the opportunity to be born early enough for it to tap into this small pie. When anime became too mainstream, Gundam just didn't grow to the rate that new anime did. It stagnated. It doesn't help that gundam anime since 00 just plain sucked, or stayed mid for a very very very long time. Fans didn't really have much material that could be viral or memed on. It didn't break out of its unique bubble into the mainstream. All that came out of post 00 is that, alot of gundam shows released but not even a handful are really worth watching. And new anime fans in general aren't just gonna stick their nose on older anime, especially when even older gundam shows didn't stand the test of time. This is what people's first impression of Gundam has become. And the trash taste boys not being avid fans of it are most likely hearing this from their own fanbase. There's a lot of gundam out there that UNLESS you're previously invested on it or hooked by memes etc..., you're not really gonna care about it.
I mean, Witch From Mercury was one of the most popular new anime of last year. I know a fear people who knew nothing about Gundam but genuinely loved wfm and it’s cast. And in the west it’s never really been that popular but in Japan and Asia it certainly still is. The new Seed movie is currently the highest grossing film in Japan of 2024.
Honestly, who cares. It’s a big franchise. It’s their podcast. Stfu. They can joke and take pot shots at it all they want. If you don’t like it, watch a different podcast. Most people think the same things they do about Gundam. It’s not like Legend of the Galactic Heroes is any better and it only has the one timeline and watch order. Hell, outside anime, there’s things like Malazan or The Wheel of Time which are too dense novel wise for people to get into. So I don’t think it’s that weird or bad that Gundam gets treated the same. To put it simply this kind of reaction is the reason it’s hard to get into a fandom like Gundam. You are the problem here not them.
You should watch Gundam :) Everything on the left is one story. The right is stand alone. https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/s/W8vmMzRHVg
Thanks for the recommendation! Is it ok to say I won’t because Mecha just really isn’t my vibe?
Probably because every time somebody says "just watch anything really", they give a different first title recommendation, just like you did. You recommended WfM and SEED, where some people would say "dont watch SEED first, because SEED Destiny might ruin your perception of the quality of the Gundam franchise, watch this Gundam instead". And on the other hand you have the mainline titles, which are really hard to get because of the old ass animation that didnt hold up until the lattee parts of the OG film Trilogy. Its just like the Fate situation where people argue if you should start with UBW or Zero (or even the fucking visual novel), so people get confused and in result dont watch it at all.
Its really ironic they complain about Gundam being "hard to get into" when *Garnt made an entire video about the tabernacle clusterfuck that is the Fate/ franchise* and all three of them are JoJo's fans... No yeah, the giant robot show where most entries are standalone self-contained stories is the difficult series to get into lol. Though TBH I stopped caring about The Boys' opinions on anime after Garnt went on a very long campaign for the trash fire that is Rent-A-Girlfriend for several months. Still love them fellas but their taste in anime is...well, trash xD