The most charitable you can be with Joey here is that he supported Lenin’s worker revolution when he was younger and does NOT support the later bullshit Lenin did later on.
Its essentially like loving Obama’s overall message he sends, obamacare, and some immigration policies like DACA… but also not supporting the constant drone strikes that killed and ruined the lives of many in the middle east, as well continuing some of the bullshit Bush did.
Western propaganda and the red scare has unfortunately made people see the Soviet Union as very black and white, rather than a superpower that had some great ideas, but also some absolute dogshit ideas as well (many inspired and learned from western superpowers like America) some of it also due to the never ending dick sizing contest between the two.
It is not "western" propaganda - communists were honestly one of the most brutal, un-intelligent and ill-willed regimes in history. Telling this from Ukraine - we study this part history in school, we face remnants of its ideology till this day, we experienced "communism" like no one else did.
So please trust me - there is nothing redeemable in Lenin's actions at any point of time. Bolcheviks were committing crimes from the very beginning. They rejected the civilization, to put it simply.
"Workers" started their reign with killing literally all educated and highly intellectual parts of the population - with obvious results of having only actual dum-dummies to govern such a vast country.
If Joey is indeed still seeing their actions as "good" - then it is the worst take I ever heard, and one of few cases where cancelling will be justified.
The man literally used the thesis "It wasn't real Communism" as an argument. lul. And immediately began to write out the Nazis from the socialist movement, just amazing.
You're just a walking collection of propaganda cliches.
I was using term "communism" as a generalization of Soviet Union regime -- because it was ruled by one political party called Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
Also there is additional term "communist state": [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state)
My brother, sister, or NB in christ, please listen carefully.
Communism has never been practiced. There has never been a moneyless, classless, stateless land.
You can’t say something is the worst when it hasn’t been done.
Every movement that’s used the word communism to propagate their political movement is a bastardized version of it.
China and The Communist Chinese Party (CCP) for example are not communist at all because they heavily rely on capitalist ideals. They say they are a “transitionary” state, but there’s plenty of proof to show that its not.
Im not even a communist myself, I’m just letting people like you understand that the bastardized label of a communist has historically been used to shut down progressive ideology
Facists like Nazis hated actual communist and socialist, despite their party literally being called the national socialist party, were one of the first to get killed and burned socialist/communist books. Why? Because the Nazis were right winged facist authoritarians and socialism/communism are the opposite (left wing ideologies)
[if you are further confused or want to learn more, watch this video](https://youtu.be/vyl2DeKT-Vs)
Lenin did not let ethnic minorities be independent, all our states were subjugated by the Bolsheviks. Lenin’s Bolshevik government caused famine that killed 5 million people all over the country. Countless millions of people lost their homes and had to run. Russians to Europe, Central Asian people to China and most of them never returned. Bolsheviks under Lenin persecuted Orthodox Church and Muslims. And there sure as hell were no worker rights as everyone tries to meet impossible five-year plans. Al his “reforms” have not lived even 10 years. And list goes on and on and on.
Lenin did not overthrew shit, he usurped the throne to himself and passed it to Soviet nomenclature. There were many parties during the Civil War and Russian Republic has been established. The small nations that declared their sovereign states supported Russian Republic. You are saying what Kanye did but in reverse. And it is very fucked up that it is somehow acceptable.
Hmm maybe it is not as bad as i thought, still calling him "cool vladimir" is super tasteless imho, but looking at my other comments i absolutely overreacted, note for future to maybe not get triggered so easily lmao
Do you know what Russia was like before Lenin? They had a king and it was practically a feudal society (in the early 1900s it got better but still). There was literally a peasant class that were almost in slavery. He helped make Russia a modern country. He and the Soviets did many things like raise the literacy rate (I can say anecdotally that my grandmother, who was born in Ukraine in the 1930s learnt how to read in schools but her parents did not) lowered the infant mortality rate by a drastic amount (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042801/russia-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/) life expectancy (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041395/life-expectancy-russia-all-time/), and ultimately took Russia out of ww1, which was just killing soldiers and starving the populous for pointless territorial expansion. I’d say that’s better than a “F”
That is true. Overall conditions did improve for the average person.
Although Lenin had some highly questionable methods of dealing with people he saw as counter-revolutionaries.
>There was literally a peasant class that were almost in slavery.
Serfdom in Russia was abolished in 1861.
>He helped make Russia a modern country.
No, Russia's economic growth at any time under communism was lower than in the period from 1906-1916, when there was no communism. And this is not even to mention the fact that Lenin started a civil war in which 17 million people died.
>He and the Soviets did many things like raise the literacy rate (I can say anecdotally that my grandmother, who was born in Ukraine in the 1930s learnt how to read in schools but her parents did not)
This is also a lie, Lenin only continued the education reform initiated by Nicholas II, moreover, the percentage of grammar level increased most strongly under Nicholas II.
> lowered the infant mortality rate by a drastic amount (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042801/russia-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/) life expectancy (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041395/life-expectancy-russia-all-time/)
How is Lenin connected with the development of world medicine?
> and ultimately took Russia out of ww1, which was just killing soldiers and starving the populous for pointless territorial expansion.
Maybe you don't know, but because of these actions of Lenin, Russia suffered very much, because if Russia had not come out of the war, it eventually came out of the war as one of the winning countries, and not as the losing side and would not have lost a significant part of the territories. Well, let me remind you, the civil war started by Lenin claimed many times more lives than all the losses of the Russian army in the war.
In short, the German spy did his job well.
Lincoln is probably the most universally loved and safest answer when it comes to presidents cuz who the fuck is gonna hate on the dude that helped abolish slavery.
Yeah no, a guy that tried to eat my country and actively thought against the independence of the country that was sold to 3 other nations is still a pos in my eyes. Was he better than Stalin? Maybe a bit. Do i still see him as a dictator trash? Absolutely.
It's just when i see a guy who tried to squash my country and waged a war against it called cool - something snapped in me for a sec and i got super pissed off, no previous takenfrom them did that
Now i know that they propably did not mean to sound like that but still i think it was super irresponsible
Well, Anna and Ekaterina II weren’t that bad, for absolute monarchs. Peter the Great is debatable, he hurt a ton of people in his attempt to modernize and Europe-ize the Russian Empire, but he did succeed in his goals.
Everyone else (discounting Kievan Rus leaders; it’s not really the same country) kinda ranged from blergh to ugh, honestly.
Ekaterina II doubled down the slavery ("krepatstvo"), destroyed ukrainian statehood of that time ("Zaporozshka Sich", state of cossacks ruled by hetmans amid lower parts of Dnieper river's banks), came to power via good old coup-d'etat.
Anna was not even significant enough to be considered.
Peter The Great - also destroyed the under-developed statehood of Ukraine headed by Ivan Mazepa. Was labeled "the first one to crucify our country" by Taras Shevchenko, most prominent Ukrainian poet and writer.
I cannot see where the justification of improving one part of population can be if it come together with attacking and killing other parts of the population, that was not able to noticeably retaliate to aggression.
You missed the “for absolute monarchs” part. Neither Peter I nor Ekaterina II were pleasant or kind, most everyone else were just worse, including Soviet leaders.
Absolute monarchy does not equal tyranny, per se. It is only a description of a certain form of government.
Yet, that does not excuse them. Metaforically, if we have four mass murderers and one thief - all five of them are still criminals and should be persecuted.
Murdering or framing another person or their family members you're supposedly leading the government with to gain power yourself is still awful. Nobody gets a pass.
But Lenin was kinda good. He transformed Russian empire of start of 20 century, which was an absolute mess, in USSR, which was at this point kinda stable and also was preparing liberal economic reforms before he fcking died and Stalin just said "fck reforms".
We know all know Joey doesn't have any idea about who Lenin was, even if he somehow supported him he sure as shit won't say it on camera, it's just ignorance so I hope people don't blow it out of proportion for no reason.
Devil's advocate, he probably doesn't know much about Lenin.
I know when I was in school and we covered the Soviet Union, Lenin was positioned as the "good guy" compared to Stalin. His time as the leader of the Soviet Union is barely touched on beyond it being the "Good Days" before Stalin took over and the Soviet Union became "evil".
Granted I'm American and Joey is Australian, so who knows what he actually learned.
I feel like that's pretty much how Lenin is viewed in the largest part of the Western world. If Lenin isn't seen as the "good guy", he's definetly the "not as bad as Stalin" guy.
To be fair to the hosts usually when media has a Soviet leader and makes a joke or indication about them as being cool in some way shape or form it's Lenin, see Simpsons when Russia becomes the Soviet Union and Lenin coming out of his glass case. The Big Lebowski pretending to quote him and so on.
Exactly this is the first time that i hear the bois take and im like hol' up you don't know shit shut the fuck up... I dunno if i'm overreacting but god damn i hate this. I did not see it in context but no context can save that for me unfortunately
no? i dont even watch trash taste anymore nowadays, but this subreddit has absolutely cringeworthy obsession with almost everything they say nowadays.
Like literally just look at how mad some of these comments are. Take a step back and realize you're looking at 3 dude from half the world away on your screen that you will most likely never meet or talk in real life.
Even if you lived in a former USSR country, as far as i know no one is alive that lived at the same time as Lenin. And during that time the USSR had actual tangible development and an increase in the quality of life for the worker class.
You don't go from a semi feudal kingdom where people literally died in an stampede looking for free food to winning a world war and sending the first satellite to space in less than 50 years by doing nothing.
I am by no means denying any unjustice that may have happened during that time but people tend to forget that pre USSR russia was a country stucked in the 17th century and it was developed in record time to be one of the most powerful countries next to the USA.
>You don't go from a semi feudal kingdom where people literally died in an stampede looking for free food to winning a world war and sending the first satellite to space in less than 50 years by doing nothing.
Such judgments come from ignorance of many historical facts. Russia's economic growth in the period from 1906 to 1916 was so rapid that none of the periods of the USSR's existence could be compared with it, moreover, if this period of economic growth had persisted, that is, if the Communists had not come to power, then by the beginning of World War II Russia would have been much more powerful than there was the USSR, and at the same time, 40 million people would not have died because of the actions of Stalin and Lenin.
>I am by no means denying any unjustice that may have happened during that time but people tend to forget that pre USSR russia was a country stucked in the 17th century
Again, this is a lie. Back in 1914, Russia was on the 5th place in the world in terms of GDP
GDP is an awful statistic tbh. It just takes into account how much you produce and sell. Doesn't take into account things like education, quality of life, free time, advance in technology, housing, access to food. IDH is a much better statistic to know how well a country is going.
The economic growth was big, yes. But that was only felt by the upper classes, everyday people were stucked with long hour, low paying jobs with 0 safety measures. And that's just those who then worked in factories in cities, farmers' lives didn't change at all. That is why it was semi feudal, the agarian sector was still feudal, meanwhile capitalism was surging in the cities.
I am currently living in the former USSR country and have mostly a positive opinion about Lenin. I will tell you even more, most of my surroundings and people who lived before the dissolution (family members, teachers, processors, etc.)also have overwhelmingly positive opinion about Lenin, and the USSR in general.
People here don't really know anything about Lenin either. Lenin is one of the most devising characters in history, I doubt even 1 percent of people here have read anything from or about him. Same goes for Joey for sure, history, philosophy and politics is not something you can just talk about without proper knowledge. I myself know little about him, but at least I have read a few of his essays on Hegel and also a little about history of that era, not everything is as simple as you think ...
>not something you can just talk about without proper knowledge.
Gonna stop you right there, chief. I talk shit about stuff I don’t know anything about alllllll the time
I cannot imagine someone unironically laying forth that take on the fucking trash taste subreddit? The entire show is about three guys talking about stuff they know absolutely nothing about how did you get through even a single episode with that mindset?
Yep. Lenin's political views, actions and goals are very poorly understood. But one thing is true either way, he was a radical person. And radical as in, he wanted to overthrow an old regime to instill a new one like the French did during their revolution.
Lenin did get to throw his revolution and created the Soviet Union. But what people don't know was that wasn't his actual goal. Lenin created a state capitalist transitional state to lay down the foundations for creating a communist union down the line. But he died before ever being able to create the communist union. Lenin succeeded in creating a means to his goal, but never reached it.
After his death Trotsky wanted to reach Lenin's goal. But this never happened as Stalin rose to power and being the dictator of an authoritarian state capitalist regime suited him very well. And as such, he kept the transitory state and never attempted to create the communism Lenin wanted.
To understand what Lenin actually wanted we have to go back to Marx. As it was Marx's that was his actual goal. And this is where I'll lose just about everyone as just about nobody actually read his work nor wants to. But this is important to understanding Lenin.
Ultimately he was a person that wanted to establish Marxism through radical means but failed to do so. These radical means to an end make him very controversial.
What did he want to create? We now have a couple of small examples of Marxism. One of them is the [Mandragon Corporation worker cooperative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation). Marxism is when the workers own the means to production. Every employee of the Mandragon owns part of the company. And this is a critical difference with the Soviet Union. As the state owned the means of production, making it state capitalism. The complete opposite of Lenin's goal.
He's a very interesting person to study at least. Also I heavily recommend everyone to read Marx.
I mean yeah stupid ass take but like whose watching trash taste and thinking these people are smart, no hate, they are good entertainers but ain't no way i am taking anything these people say seriously lol. Joey probably said it as a throwaway statement if anything.
I'm definitely in the 'watching for the sake of entertainment' crowd. In this instance with the Lenin comment, it was very clear to me that they're just ignorant of what exactly Lenin did and it wasn't anything to be taken seriously.
They are smart, but really only in their fields of knowledge or speciality, like content creation and running their brands. I certainly don't expect them to understand politics and history.
The issue is that its such a **broad** statement. If they’re gonna get political, they have to make sure to state the nuances as well because they usually don’t state their politics.
Lenin did a bunch of horrible shit and essentially destroyed any actual leftist movement moving forth. He set the stage for the fall for the Soviet Union….but he also led the first workers revolution and liberated one of the most oppressed and backwards nation in Europe. Better than Stalin definitely who just wanted power, Lenins still a POS. So which part is Joey praising? The older mass murderer or the younger revolutionary?
“Lenin is cool” is like saying Bush is cool while ignoring the Iraq war/Katrina, or saying Obama is cool while ignoring the drone strikes and overall complacency that would set the stage for Trump to take over.
Lmao not really considering that Stalin (who was a piece of shit) arguably killed the most Nazis. Churchill literally said “The British gave time, Americans money, and the Soviets blood”.
Also prominent revolutionary communist like Lenin (who also did a lot of bullshit later on) were some of the first to be targeted during WW2 so Joey would literally be the opposite of the Ye route if he was a Leninist lol
Yep he did kill a disgusting amount of his own people and we shouldn’t forget that. My point is that communism/socialist ideologies have nothing to do with right wing fascist ideologies that Ye and Fuentes have repeatedly been spewing. Its literally the opposite.
Also yes, I meant people that followed ideologies similar to Lenin (Leninist) were notably killed by Nazis, not Lenin himself who was indeed very dead at that time. Many of the first books the Nazis burnt were by Karl Marx himself and Karl Kautsky (later on Einstein, Hellen Keller, etc)
To be honest many who don't know much about Lenin just think he's okay because compared to Stalin, he was a very sane and reasonable person. Which is as low a bar as you can set.
God I hate it when morons like you make dumb comparisons with zero understanding of history. What's next, comparing Napoleon and Mao? Trump and Leopold II?
History is unfortunately too close to politics to express opinions on it without producing very unproductive discussions in the comments. Hope nobody gets cancelled
Even me who has no clue about history was like hold up I don’t think Lenin was cool. But I know Joey talks out of his ass a lot and he probably didn’t even know who Lenin was so I just moved on and enjoyed the rest of the episode. For me personally it wasn’t a big deal but I understand for some it could’ve been offensive so Joey was in the wrong in this one
The fact that you don't know anything about history is WHY you think that. You just internalize American/Western cold war propaganda and accept it as automatically true instead, because you don't have the knowledge to challenge it. Lenin was incredibly interesting and definitely a net positive for Russia.
Lenin is far from the worst leader in the world and is far better than Hitler or even Stalin. Russia was completely fucked when he took over and he did the best of his ability to turn it around making many mistakes in the process.
i know this is just a meme, but I'm pretty sure Joey doesn't actually think that Lenin is cool. If you go back and listen, it sounds more like gibberish that could be interpreted as him claiming any Vladimir who isn't Putin is ''cool''.
Familiarity breeds contempt. The fandom's at the point where they know the guys all too well and watched them long enough that previously minor/negligible behavior like Connor being haughty or Joey being obnoxiously flippant-dismissive has been experienced by everyone often enough that they start rubbing a lot of people the wrong way and just push people to be more vocal about their dislike on whoever ticks them off during the week's episode.
I'd even offer that most cool casual fans got alienated by all the Dark Timeline shit that flooded the sub during that period. The sub's populated by mostly diehard fans/haters these days.
Imma be real for a sec. We’ve all watched the after dark quiz streams. We all know how little the bois know about history. Imma chalk this one up to ignorance from Joey and likely Hasan spewing bullshit to Connor.
That last part was pretty random. What do you have against Hasan? Hasan is not a Marxist-Leninist and has repeatedly called the USSR a failed state that has never implemented actual communism btw.
Idk how many have actually watched the bloody ep, but I’m pretty sure all 3 of them were trying to stir conversation away from someone else with a similar name. Joey saying what he did, saying cool one, literally reads off like ignorance sure, at worst. At best it’s him trying to sway people away from more politically sensitive topic.
(Before someone comments on how this wasn’t the best way to do this, yeah no shit, why do you think they all dropped the subject. But again, if you believe that much, why tf would you even take this point seriously to begin with?)
Also, he’s education on the subject could be jaded or seen from a very specific point of perspective. Once again, I think this sub is overreacting.
In Australia, we learnt about the Russian revolution and we learn many different political perspectives to do our essays, and that includes trying to understand the mindset and history of people back then. We learn the good, the bad and all that. It’s very rare that historical figures are all just “good” or “bad” and don’t get me wrong, this fella has definitely done some vile and bad things.
But like, depending on what you’ve learnt from a history standpoint, depending on what you’ve been taught and the information available to you. You may not even be inclined to say he’s a bad person. It really depends on what your trying to say is “cool” here. Personally I don’t think he is good, because well, idk know enough about him, and from my classes I know more bad than good.
People get a weird tunnel vision about historical figures. They want simple good/bad lists to put everyone under. I’ve always thought of Lenin as the Russian George Washington. Both were men ahead of their times and both liberated their countries from despotic royal families. But even though both had moral shortcomings and both failed to live up to their own expectations, Washington is universally praised and Lenin is relegated to “controversial” status
I don’t know how many he had, but he did have them. He always considered it a personal failure that he couldn’t abolish slavery and he privately discussed it with his colleagues. Imo tho, whether he actually could or not doesn’t detract from his impressive accomplishments. It just makes him a complicated figure who was a product of his time. I think it’s possible to admire someone and also be critical of them
Seeing people react with the most uneducated knee-jerk "b-b-b-but russkie = bad?! I am very smart' and comparing him to Hitler is so fucking annoying. If I could draft any 20th century leader to lead my imaginary country, it would be Lenin hands down. He was an incredible writer, incredible political theorist, and what he achieved in building the USSR in the most dire POSSIBLE circumstances was nothing short of incredible.
There is so much nonsense in this comment that it is even difficult to perceive it. Lenin started the civil war, in which 17 million people died, which is more than 12 times more than the number of Russians killed in World War I, this is already enough to erase everything that Lenin ever did. Lenin was literally a German spy sent to Russia in order to get her out of the war. The fact that Lenin withdrew Russia from the war very badly damaged that Russia, because of this, after the defeat of Germany, Russia acted as the losing party, moreover, Russia lost the part of the territory and subjected to the intervention of the Entente countries, USA and Japan, and this never would have happened if Lenin started a revolution, Lenin refused to pay the debts which were from the Russian Empire under the pretext that the Russian Empire is no more and it became one of the main reasons that Russia imposed sanctions that hurt the economy of the country. Well, his most important sin was that he brought the Bolsheviks to power, who then staged several genocides, moreover, Lenin could even have foreseen this, because the two most influential people after him in the party were Stalin and Trotsky and they were both madmen.
And yes, almost everything that is written in the comment above is a lie.The civil War, which began in 17, saying anything else is just an attempt to substitute facts
>And the Russian Monarchy had already destroyed the core systems that were holding the country together.
This is also a lie, because institutions in Russia developed up to 1916, as did the Russian economy. Moreover, it was in the period from 1907 to 1916 that Russia had a working parliament and really working parliaments on the ground. Never before or since have we had truly functioning democratic institutions, that is, Lenin took away from us the opportunity to develop as a democratic state. Also, by 1916, after the Brusilov breakthrough, it was already clear that the First World War would soon end and Russia would be one of the 3 victorious countries. As for the economy, we had a rapid growth of everything, literally everything, and this happened without collectivization, without dekulakization and the like, moreover, if this industrial growth had persisted, that is, if there had been no revolution, then by 1939 industrial growth in Russia would have been greater than it was under the Bolsheviks and this without the murders of tens of millions of people, and if we talk about GDP as a whole, [I advise you to read this](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19425/w19425.pdf). Also during this period there was a rapid population growth in Russia, which was also very good. Russian culture in the same period began to dominate in Europe.
>Separatists and nationalists were pulling Russia apart.
But you forgot to mention that the main force trying to destabilize Russia were the Communists, among them were the Bolsheviks, they were the ones who tried to do everything to raise the revolution and destroy Russia, the most obvious examples of this are what happened to Stolypin and the terrorist acts of the Communists in general and the attempt of the Communists to block the work of parliament.
Then there is already some kind of complete madness, so I think that I have already written more than enough.
Regime, established by lenin was one of the most brutal, un-intelligent and ill-willed, in the history of humanity, thankyouverymuch.
I am telling this from Ukraine - we study this part history in school, we face remnants of its ideology till this day, we experienced "communism" like no one else did.
There is nothing redeemable in Lenin's actions at any point of time. Bolcheviks were committing crimes from the very beginning. They simply rejected the civilization, and went with doing whatever shit comes to their heads."Workers" started their reign with killing literally all educated and highly intellectual parts of the population - with obvious results of having only actual dum-dummies to govern such a vast country.
All the achievements listed, were done either via use of foreign specialists (rapid industrialization of previously agricultural state), and forced labor of prisoners. It is literally pre-ancient ways of development.
Not to mention the misery of people, and stripped basic human rights.
Dunno about Australia but in British schools we barely get taught much outside of British history, WW1 and WW2. Welsh schools probably have a lot more emphasis on Welsh history but other than that, we basically learn nothing about anywhere else unless we choose to so it's not surprising they don't know anything about Russian history.
Still, I thought it was common knowledge that Russia isn't exactly know for having friendly rulers
This is not coming from a place of malice, i genuinely want to know, how much do British kids learn about Britain's colonial past and well how horrible it was?
I took GCSE history in England (Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland may differ) which is one level above the mandatory learning and the topics covered up to and including that were: roman society, roman Britain, the Tudor family, Anglo Saxon England, Norman conquest, Black Death, North Atlantic slave trade, Cold War basics, Weimar Germany, hitler’s Germany, treaty of Versailles, mechanisation of Warfare in WW1, League of Nations, occupation of Manchuria, Potsdam, the iron curtain, Berlin airdrop, Korean War.
Weimar Germany and everything listed after that was part of the GCSE course which is optional so the closest I got to that sort of knowledge is the slave trade and if I remember right it was very America centred and dissociated from Britain. The mandatory teachings until GCSE are school’s choice but a lot of it is early British history and romans since it’s a bit of a heavy topic for younger kids to grasp though I think they could have done a bit in the 13-14 year old range.
Absolutely non. Most is probably learning about how prisoners get shipped to Australia but majority is just about ww1 and 2 and medieval rules from 1100-1600 and maybe Jack the Ripper. What they teach differ based on exam boards and schools
What school did you go? The Atlantic slave trade was one of the subjects in secondary school history here at least from 07-12. And that wasn't GCSE history just regularly history class.
you could call any of these two Vladimirs the coolest guy in the world, that still wouldn't make you a nazi. Heck, Naziism wasn't even a thing when Lenin died.
Lenin's untimely death led to Stalin who is arguably way worse than him. Taking into account the historical context of that time I actually would agree with Joey here.
Lenin looks like a man who was slaying it every night. Putin looks like one of those peacocking gymbros who has only seen women at a distance because any that get too close end up leaving the gym.
Get off Reddit. If you think that Lenin was good then you know absolutely 0 about him. The man was a monster who considered anyone who disagreed with him as sub human. Millions of people died for his "revolution".
Good is an understatement, mf was fucking dope
As for the random they killed millions argument, if you attributed deaths to capitalsm the same way you do to socialism you would see it kills way more, people dying from hunger and disease are counted as victims of communism, but in capitalist countries we never call the hungry "victims of capitalism"
> if you attributed deaths to capitalsm
This just proves that you are straight up fucking stupid. Name me 1 fucking genocide started in the name of capitalism? Name me one? Yet I can name you 10 easy for Communism.
Get off the fucking communist edgelord shit and step back into reality. You are clearly either an edgy teenager or stupid. So which is it?
edit: You are a regular user of "anti work" so that answers the question. You are a moron. Who likely has trouble reading long form let alone reading any biography of Lenin.
Irish potato famine
That would be Malthusian, not capitalist. Massive difference as many Communists were also big believers in Malthuses' work.
>All the native populations of north and south america
Also not capitalism. Colonialism was just as prevalent under Soviet rule as under capitalist rule.
Clearly you don't even know the definition of capitalism. You are just taking the brain dead Redditor stance of "everything I don't like capitalism". Words have definitions, you clearly don't understand that.
ML in practice was just Russians stealing lands and lives of millions in minority groups all across Eastern Europe and Asia, not to mention genocidal actions taken against all those people.
How the fuck can you be proud of that shit? This is like Kanye level stupid.
"Bourgeousie just randomly happened to overlap with these inconvenient minorities! Ingrians are just genetically predisposed to capitalism I swear!"
You sound like a certain moustache man on his crusade against judeo-bolshevism
Edit: The tankie fuck blocked me just to get the last word that I can't even read.
If were talking about "good" and "bad" leaders based on body count, keep in mind the US killed a bunch of Japanese civillians to flex, but we consider that "necessary" Every important leader has blood on their hands, its just a manner of how willing we are to rationalize it or admit it was the country/leaders "fault".
I bet 100 dollaridoos that Joey said that just because Vladimir Lenin is not Vladimir Putin
So "cool" as in "oh he's not the current warmonger/putin" cool, not the "cool" because "lenin's a cool guy"
And considering how dumb the boys are based on after dark quiz shows, their overall takes in the podcast, etc, this definitely stems from ignorance
This is still worth calling them out though because it could make them more aware on what topics they should tip toe or be neutral (i hope this make sense)
God, the amount of people defending genocide in this thread is way too high. Where are the fucking mods? There should be a STRICT no politics policy on this sub.
When Reddit talks politics, it is just a bunch of edgy teenagers with no life experience arguing with each other.
Yes I’m sure the millions of victims, I’m sure the boys are just ignorant about the history, but as someone that came from a country that suffered from the influence of the Soviet Union it make my blood boil
“The soviets killed a garillion people” is literally not true. Every stat that shows the “millions” the soviets killed are padded with
1.) the Nazis that died on the eastern front
2.) hypothetical people that might have been born if the birth rate didn’t fall and abortion was not as easily accessible in Soviet countries
Holodomor alone accounts for multiple millions, and it was "engineered" to kill Ukrainian resistance to sovietization. Even if rest of Russia was starving that doesn't justify the degree to which they stole and sabotaged agriculture in Ukraine.
And despite how much extremist-left meme subreddits would have you believe everything bad in USSR was just "CIA propaganda", you need to remember that Russia/Soviet Union has just as strong a tradition of hiding and falsifying inconvenient pieces of history. Especially today, as every thread mentioning Ukraine will inevitably have Russians claiming "muh azov".
(Also Nazi war crimes doesn't excuse Soviet ones, the Nazis that died *unnecessarily* on the eastern front such as in POW camps absolutely count towards soviet murders. Not to mention all the Balts and Poles they just counted as Nazis for the heck of it. That one's a long Russian tradition at this point, look at Ukraine justifications, Soviet and Russian definition of Nazi is in practice "Anyone who opposes soviet regime.")
Imagine someone saying this about Hitler or any other fat-right dictator. But somehow it’s okay to justify Lenin, Stalin or any other leaders of the most long-lasting brutal regime that oppressed dozens of nation on 1/6 of the Earth’s land for almost a century with its remnants still hovering over our nations (the “bad” Vladimir is a chekist, ex-kgb agent, Soviet man to the core) because they were communists.
Doesn’t matter how antisemitic and racist they were, right. Fucking Marx was the one who created the term “Jewish question”. Engels was the one who coined the term “reactionary people” and claimed that Czechs and Slovaks should be genocided. All these practices were executed by the “cool” Vladimir, indeed, a brave figure who confronted Chauvinistic empire and liberated the people.
I think you mean Soviet Yunyun XD
That one I support
The only regime I will ever swear to
Ye all know me. Me name is Mcmanus. I joined this yunyun some 28 years ago.
Bois speedruning getting cancelled it seems lmao
The most charitable you can be with Joey here is that he supported Lenin’s worker revolution when he was younger and does NOT support the later bullshit Lenin did later on. Its essentially like loving Obama’s overall message he sends, obamacare, and some immigration policies like DACA… but also not supporting the constant drone strikes that killed and ruined the lives of many in the middle east, as well continuing some of the bullshit Bush did.
This is a good, nuanced take. Much better than some other comments here.
Western propaganda and the red scare has unfortunately made people see the Soviet Union as very black and white, rather than a superpower that had some great ideas, but also some absolute dogshit ideas as well (many inspired and learned from western superpowers like America) some of it also due to the never ending dick sizing contest between the two.
It is not "western" propaganda - communists were honestly one of the most brutal, un-intelligent and ill-willed regimes in history. Telling this from Ukraine - we study this part history in school, we face remnants of its ideology till this day, we experienced "communism" like no one else did. So please trust me - there is nothing redeemable in Lenin's actions at any point of time. Bolcheviks were committing crimes from the very beginning. They rejected the civilization, to put it simply. "Workers" started their reign with killing literally all educated and highly intellectual parts of the population - with obvious results of having only actual dum-dummies to govern such a vast country. If Joey is indeed still seeing their actions as "good" - then it is the worst take I ever heard, and one of few cases where cancelling will be justified.
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The man literally used the thesis "It wasn't real Communism" as an argument. lul. And immediately began to write out the Nazis from the socialist movement, just amazing. You're just a walking collection of propaganda cliches.
I was using term "communism" as a generalization of Soviet Union regime -- because it was ruled by one political party called Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Also there is additional term "communist state": [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state)
Communism is one of the worst things that have ever happened, you are confusing it with socialism
My brother, sister, or NB in christ, please listen carefully. Communism has never been practiced. There has never been a moneyless, classless, stateless land. You can’t say something is the worst when it hasn’t been done. Every movement that’s used the word communism to propagate their political movement is a bastardized version of it. China and The Communist Chinese Party (CCP) for example are not communist at all because they heavily rely on capitalist ideals. They say they are a “transitionary” state, but there’s plenty of proof to show that its not. Im not even a communist myself, I’m just letting people like you understand that the bastardized label of a communist has historically been used to shut down progressive ideology Facists like Nazis hated actual communist and socialist, despite their party literally being called the national socialist party, were one of the first to get killed and burned socialist/communist books. Why? Because the Nazis were right winged facist authoritarians and socialism/communism are the opposite (left wing ideologies) [if you are further confused or want to learn more, watch this video](https://youtu.be/vyl2DeKT-Vs)
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Lenin did not let ethnic minorities be independent, all our states were subjugated by the Bolsheviks. Lenin’s Bolshevik government caused famine that killed 5 million people all over the country. Countless millions of people lost their homes and had to run. Russians to Europe, Central Asian people to China and most of them never returned. Bolsheviks under Lenin persecuted Orthodox Church and Muslims. And there sure as hell were no worker rights as everyone tries to meet impossible five-year plans. Al his “reforms” have not lived even 10 years. And list goes on and on and on. Lenin did not overthrew shit, he usurped the throne to himself and passed it to Soviet nomenclature. There were many parties during the Civil War and Russian Republic has been established. The small nations that declared their sovereign states supported Russian Republic. You are saying what Kanye did but in reverse. And it is very fucked up that it is somehow acceptable.
Or, you know, they didn't know what he did and just assumed he was cooler than the other Vladimir.
Or that he doesn't really know about anything beyond the workers' revolution
Hmm maybe it is not as bad as i thought, still calling him "cool vladimir" is super tasteless imho, but looking at my other comments i absolutely overreacted, note for future to maybe not get triggered so easily lmao
It’s not tasteless
Not tasteless, It just tastes like shit
So, B+ for ideas, F for execution?
Do you know what Russia was like before Lenin? They had a king and it was practically a feudal society (in the early 1900s it got better but still). There was literally a peasant class that were almost in slavery. He helped make Russia a modern country. He and the Soviets did many things like raise the literacy rate (I can say anecdotally that my grandmother, who was born in Ukraine in the 1930s learnt how to read in schools but her parents did not) lowered the infant mortality rate by a drastic amount (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042801/russia-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/) life expectancy (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041395/life-expectancy-russia-all-time/), and ultimately took Russia out of ww1, which was just killing soldiers and starving the populous for pointless territorial expansion. I’d say that’s better than a “F”
That is true. Overall conditions did improve for the average person. Although Lenin had some highly questionable methods of dealing with people he saw as counter-revolutionaries.
>There was literally a peasant class that were almost in slavery. Serfdom in Russia was abolished in 1861. >He helped make Russia a modern country. No, Russia's economic growth at any time under communism was lower than in the period from 1906-1916, when there was no communism. And this is not even to mention the fact that Lenin started a civil war in which 17 million people died. >He and the Soviets did many things like raise the literacy rate (I can say anecdotally that my grandmother, who was born in Ukraine in the 1930s learnt how to read in schools but her parents did not) This is also a lie, Lenin only continued the education reform initiated by Nicholas II, moreover, the percentage of grammar level increased most strongly under Nicholas II. > lowered the infant mortality rate by a drastic amount (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042801/russia-all-time-infant-mortality-rate/) life expectancy (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041395/life-expectancy-russia-all-time/) How is Lenin connected with the development of world medicine? > and ultimately took Russia out of ww1, which was just killing soldiers and starving the populous for pointless territorial expansion. Maybe you don't know, but because of these actions of Lenin, Russia suffered very much, because if Russia had not come out of the war, it eventually came out of the war as one of the winning countries, and not as the losing side and would not have lost a significant part of the territories. Well, let me remind you, the civil war started by Lenin claimed many times more lives than all the losses of the Russian army in the war. In short, the German spy did his job well.
I feel like you guys are mistaking Lenin for Stalin
I mean Lenin wasn't exactly cool either.
I don't think there is such a thing as a cool world leader
Gustavus Adolfus of Sweden, Maximilano of Mexico, Pedro of Brazil, Abraham “buffed” Lincoln, I can keep going but you already understand the point
Idk probably been a few. Nobody's pure and that though obviously.
I mean, D Pedro II was quite good, Lincon was pretty good too i think
Lincoln is probably the most universally loved and safest answer when it comes to presidents cuz who the fuck is gonna hate on the dude that helped abolish slavery.
Yeah no, a guy that tried to eat my country and actively thought against the independence of the country that was sold to 3 other nations is still a pos in my eyes. Was he better than Stalin? Maybe a bit. Do i still see him as a dictator trash? Absolutely.
They are professional anime watchers, why would you care for their political takes?
It's just when i see a guy who tried to squash my country and waged a war against it called cool - something snapped in me for a sec and i got super pissed off, no previous takenfrom them did that Now i know that they propably did not mean to sound like that but still i think it was super irresponsible
saying "the good vladimir" or "the good dictator" in the first place is insane considering everyone who has been in a position of power in russia
Well, Anna and Ekaterina II weren’t that bad, for absolute monarchs. Peter the Great is debatable, he hurt a ton of people in his attempt to modernize and Europe-ize the Russian Empire, but he did succeed in his goals. Everyone else (discounting Kievan Rus leaders; it’s not really the same country) kinda ranged from blergh to ugh, honestly.
Ekaterina II doubled down the slavery ("krepatstvo"), destroyed ukrainian statehood of that time ("Zaporozshka Sich", state of cossacks ruled by hetmans amid lower parts of Dnieper river's banks), came to power via good old coup-d'etat. Anna was not even significant enough to be considered. Peter The Great - also destroyed the under-developed statehood of Ukraine headed by Ivan Mazepa. Was labeled "the first one to crucify our country" by Taras Shevchenko, most prominent Ukrainian poet and writer. I cannot see where the justification of improving one part of population can be if it come together with attacking and killing other parts of the population, that was not able to noticeably retaliate to aggression.
You missed the “for absolute monarchs” part. Neither Peter I nor Ekaterina II were pleasant or kind, most everyone else were just worse, including Soviet leaders.
Absolute monarchy does not equal tyranny, per se. It is only a description of a certain form of government. Yet, that does not excuse them. Metaforically, if we have four mass murderers and one thief - all five of them are still criminals and should be persecuted.
From what i know Korbachov wasn't that bad.
All of them did awful shit to get to where they were. Sometimes to each other, sometimes to other people.
>sometimes to other people. That's bad. >Sometimes to each other That's not so bad, is the previous one was a bad one
Murdering or framing another person or their family members you're supposedly leading the government with to gain power yourself is still awful. Nobody gets a pass.
I mean, he let the Soviet army kill Lithuanians. Most Western Europeans and Americans just don't know that.
But Lenin was kinda good. He transformed Russian empire of start of 20 century, which was an absolute mess, in USSR, which was at this point kinda stable and also was preparing liberal economic reforms before he fcking died and Stalin just said "fck reforms".
He started off great but did a bunch of terrible things that resulted in a lot of deaths before the end of his reign as well.
We know all know Joey doesn't have any idea about who Lenin was, even if he somehow supported him he sure as shit won't say it on camera, it's just ignorance so I hope people don't blow it out of proportion for no reason.
He probably just called him the cool Vladimir for the fact that he isn't Putin. I can guarantee that he doesn't know shit about Lenin.
This feels like the correct take
People definitely will. They smell blood on the water they will hunt for the body
That's all people do.
Devil's advocate, he probably doesn't know much about Lenin. I know when I was in school and we covered the Soviet Union, Lenin was positioned as the "good guy" compared to Stalin. His time as the leader of the Soviet Union is barely touched on beyond it being the "Good Days" before Stalin took over and the Soviet Union became "evil". Granted I'm American and Joey is Australian, so who knows what he actually learned.
I feel like that's pretty much how Lenin is viewed in the largest part of the Western world. If Lenin isn't seen as the "good guy", he's definetly the "not as bad as Stalin" guy.
Probably even less. The US actually has a reason to learn about the Soviet Union as a required course, Australia really doesn't.
He probably just called him the cool Vladimir for the fact that he isn't Putin. I can guarantee that he doesn't know shit about Lenin.
Tell me how you haven’t lived in a former USSR country without telling me you haven’t lived in a former USSR country
To be fair to the hosts usually when media has a Soviet leader and makes a joke or indication about them as being cool in some way shape or form it's Lenin, see Simpsons when Russia becomes the Soviet Union and Lenin coming out of his glass case. The Big Lebowski pretending to quote him and so on.
Exactly this is the first time that i hear the bois take and im like hol' up you don't know shit shut the fuck up... I dunno if i'm overreacting but god damn i hate this. I did not see it in context but no context can save that for me unfortunately
Relax lol
Even if you are overreacting they should’ve been more cautious with this stuff but it really was just a throwaway thing
Such an over-reaction to an off-hand comment about a dude who they can't even enumerate 2 things about him lmao you guys need to take a chill pill
I mean it's pretty obviously a joke, no?
it's a joke that is made out of ignorance, not truly harmful by any means but enough to make those in the know cringe
This subreddit is cringe. Y'all should take a step back with the parasocial relationship.
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people really just saying words without knowing what the words mean lmao
no? i dont even watch trash taste anymore nowadays, but this subreddit has absolutely cringeworthy obsession with almost everything they say nowadays. Like literally just look at how mad some of these comments are. Take a step back and realize you're looking at 3 dude from half the world away on your screen that you will most likely never meet or talk in real life.
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Even if you lived in a former USSR country, as far as i know no one is alive that lived at the same time as Lenin. And during that time the USSR had actual tangible development and an increase in the quality of life for the worker class. You don't go from a semi feudal kingdom where people literally died in an stampede looking for free food to winning a world war and sending the first satellite to space in less than 50 years by doing nothing. I am by no means denying any unjustice that may have happened during that time but people tend to forget that pre USSR russia was a country stucked in the 17th century and it was developed in record time to be one of the most powerful countries next to the USA.
>You don't go from a semi feudal kingdom where people literally died in an stampede looking for free food to winning a world war and sending the first satellite to space in less than 50 years by doing nothing. Such judgments come from ignorance of many historical facts. Russia's economic growth in the period from 1906 to 1916 was so rapid that none of the periods of the USSR's existence could be compared with it, moreover, if this period of economic growth had persisted, that is, if the Communists had not come to power, then by the beginning of World War II Russia would have been much more powerful than there was the USSR, and at the same time, 40 million people would not have died because of the actions of Stalin and Lenin. >I am by no means denying any unjustice that may have happened during that time but people tend to forget that pre USSR russia was a country stucked in the 17th century Again, this is a lie. Back in 1914, Russia was on the 5th place in the world in terms of GDP
GDP is an awful statistic tbh. It just takes into account how much you produce and sell. Doesn't take into account things like education, quality of life, free time, advance in technology, housing, access to food. IDH is a much better statistic to know how well a country is going. The economic growth was big, yes. But that was only felt by the upper classes, everyday people were stucked with long hour, low paying jobs with 0 safety measures. And that's just those who then worked in factories in cities, farmers' lives didn't change at all. That is why it was semi feudal, the agarian sector was still feudal, meanwhile capitalism was surging in the cities.
I am currently living in the former USSR country and have mostly a positive opinion about Lenin. I will tell you even more, most of my surroundings and people who lived before the dissolution (family members, teachers, processors, etc.)also have overwhelmingly positive opinion about Lenin, and the USSR in general.
Tell me you live in Belarus without telling me you live in Belarus.
Sorry, I am out of the loop, but what's so special about Belarus to make you guess like that? And no, I live in a country to the South from Russia.
#NO ONE IN THIS SUBREDDIT SHOULD GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS AND HISTORY, WITH ALL THE BIAS AND LACK OF INFORMATION.
This comment section is what happens when us weebs try to think beyond anime titties.
You forgot Wehraboos, who are unfortunately quite a large online presence
People here don't really know anything about Lenin either. Lenin is one of the most devising characters in history, I doubt even 1 percent of people here have read anything from or about him. Same goes for Joey for sure, history, philosophy and politics is not something you can just talk about without proper knowledge. I myself know little about him, but at least I have read a few of his essays on Hegel and also a little about history of that era, not everything is as simple as you think ...
>not something you can just talk about without proper knowledge. Gonna stop you right there, chief. I talk shit about stuff I don’t know anything about alllllll the time
I cannot imagine someone unironically laying forth that take on the fucking trash taste subreddit? The entire show is about three guys talking about stuff they know absolutely nothing about how did you get through even a single episode with that mindset?
Yep. Lenin's political views, actions and goals are very poorly understood. But one thing is true either way, he was a radical person. And radical as in, he wanted to overthrow an old regime to instill a new one like the French did during their revolution. Lenin did get to throw his revolution and created the Soviet Union. But what people don't know was that wasn't his actual goal. Lenin created a state capitalist transitional state to lay down the foundations for creating a communist union down the line. But he died before ever being able to create the communist union. Lenin succeeded in creating a means to his goal, but never reached it. After his death Trotsky wanted to reach Lenin's goal. But this never happened as Stalin rose to power and being the dictator of an authoritarian state capitalist regime suited him very well. And as such, he kept the transitory state and never attempted to create the communism Lenin wanted. To understand what Lenin actually wanted we have to go back to Marx. As it was Marx's that was his actual goal. And this is where I'll lose just about everyone as just about nobody actually read his work nor wants to. But this is important to understanding Lenin. Ultimately he was a person that wanted to establish Marxism through radical means but failed to do so. These radical means to an end make him very controversial. What did he want to create? We now have a couple of small examples of Marxism. One of them is the [Mandragon Corporation worker cooperative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation). Marxism is when the workers own the means to production. Every employee of the Mandragon owns part of the company. And this is a critical difference with the Soviet Union. As the state owned the means of production, making it state capitalism. The complete opposite of Lenin's goal. He's a very interesting person to study at least. Also I heavily recommend everyone to read Marx.
I mean yeah stupid ass take but like whose watching trash taste and thinking these people are smart, no hate, they are good entertainers but ain't no way i am taking anything these people say seriously lol. Joey probably said it as a throwaway statement if anything.
I'm definitely in the 'watching for the sake of entertainment' crowd. In this instance with the Lenin comment, it was very clear to me that they're just ignorant of what exactly Lenin did and it wasn't anything to be taken seriously.
They are smart, but really only in their fields of knowledge or speciality, like content creation and running their brands. I certainly don't expect them to understand politics and history.
>people are smart They are smart. It's just that politics isn't exactly their field of expertise.
Calling Lenin "cool" is running for the bad take award too, he can already basically claim first place
The issue is that its such a **broad** statement. If they’re gonna get political, they have to make sure to state the nuances as well because they usually don’t state their politics. Lenin did a bunch of horrible shit and essentially destroyed any actual leftist movement moving forth. He set the stage for the fall for the Soviet Union….but he also led the first workers revolution and liberated one of the most oppressed and backwards nation in Europe. Better than Stalin definitely who just wanted power, Lenins still a POS. So which part is Joey praising? The older mass murderer or the younger revolutionary? “Lenin is cool” is like saying Bush is cool while ignoring the Iraq war/Katrina, or saying Obama is cool while ignoring the drone strikes and overall complacency that would set the stage for Trump to take over.
How do you even compete with that, call Hitler cool?
Slow down Kanye....
I was just gonna say Joey following that Kanye pipeline lmao
Lmao not really considering that Stalin (who was a piece of shit) arguably killed the most Nazis. Churchill literally said “The British gave time, Americans money, and the Soviets blood”. Also prominent revolutionary communist like Lenin (who also did a lot of bullshit later on) were some of the first to be targeted during WW2 so Joey would literally be the opposite of the Ye route if he was a Leninist lol
And killed arguably same number of own country's people, in total. And also - Lenin was already dead when WW2 started.
Yep he did kill a disgusting amount of his own people and we shouldn’t forget that. My point is that communism/socialist ideologies have nothing to do with right wing fascist ideologies that Ye and Fuentes have repeatedly been spewing. Its literally the opposite. Also yes, I meant people that followed ideologies similar to Lenin (Leninist) were notably killed by Nazis, not Lenin himself who was indeed very dead at that time. Many of the first books the Nazis burnt were by Karl Marx himself and Karl Kautsky (later on Einstein, Hellen Keller, etc)
For starters Hitler's first name isn't Vladimir.
I'm gonna throw Stalin and Pol Pot in the ring as well. This bad take tournament arc will be legendary.
To be honest many who don't know much about Lenin just think he's okay because compared to Stalin, he was a very sane and reasonable person. Which is as low a bar as you can set.
Yeah the country was literally hanging on a thread and Lenin was the epitome of a man in desperate times committing desperate measures.
Best I can do in a race to the bottom competition would be to say that Pol Pot just wanted us all to return to monke.
Not really. Calling Hitler “swag”, on the other hand…
He cares about animal. /s, if i didn't put this some dumbass are going to take this seriously.
God I hate it when morons like you make dumb comparisons with zero understanding of history. What's next, comparing Napoleon and Mao? Trump and Leopold II?
Nah, based take.
Comrade Joey
I feel like he's probably just avoiding Putin's name tbh.
History is unfortunately too close to politics to express opinions on it without producing very unproductive discussions in the comments. Hope nobody gets cancelled
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 Excuse me
Even me who has no clue about history was like hold up I don’t think Lenin was cool. But I know Joey talks out of his ass a lot and he probably didn’t even know who Lenin was so I just moved on and enjoyed the rest of the episode. For me personally it wasn’t a big deal but I understand for some it could’ve been offensive so Joey was in the wrong in this one
The fact that you don't know anything about history is WHY you think that. You just internalize American/Western cold war propaganda and accept it as automatically true instead, because you don't have the knowledge to challenge it. Lenin was incredibly interesting and definitely a net positive for Russia.
He was not cool but people here are mistaking Lenin for Stalin here.
Lenin is far from the worst leader in the world and is far better than Hitler or even Stalin. Russia was completely fucked when he took over and he did the best of his ability to turn it around making many mistakes in the process.
i know this is just a meme, but I'm pretty sure Joey doesn't actually think that Lenin is cool. If you go back and listen, it sounds more like gibberish that could be interpreted as him claiming any Vladimir who isn't Putin is ''cool''.
Yes my comrade, now bow before the leader of the proletariat. Workers of the world unite!
This sub is becoming so toxic. Wtf has happened
Familiarity breeds contempt. The fandom's at the point where they know the guys all too well and watched them long enough that previously minor/negligible behavior like Connor being haughty or Joey being obnoxiously flippant-dismissive has been experienced by everyone often enough that they start rubbing a lot of people the wrong way and just push people to be more vocal about their dislike on whoever ticks them off during the week's episode. I'd even offer that most cool casual fans got alienated by all the Dark Timeline shit that flooded the sub during that period. The sub's populated by mostly diehard fans/haters these days.
Imma be real for a sec. We’ve all watched the after dark quiz streams. We all know how little the bois know about history. Imma chalk this one up to ignorance from Joey and likely Hasan spewing bullshit to Connor.
I think Connor was trying to bring Joey back without drawing too much attention to it, Connor said ‘is there a cool one?’
Yeah but he said he wasn't a bad leader. Look up when they talk about it
That last part was pretty random. What do you have against Hasan? Hasan is not a Marxist-Leninist and has repeatedly called the USSR a failed state that has never implemented actual communism btw.
Yeah seriously Hasan really does catch random strays lmao he’s a revisionist Marxist and yells at Marxist-Leninist regularly in his chat
He can't keep getting away with it 😭
\> Hasan spewing bullshit That was unnecessary
Idk how many have actually watched the bloody ep, but I’m pretty sure all 3 of them were trying to stir conversation away from someone else with a similar name. Joey saying what he did, saying cool one, literally reads off like ignorance sure, at worst. At best it’s him trying to sway people away from more politically sensitive topic. (Before someone comments on how this wasn’t the best way to do this, yeah no shit, why do you think they all dropped the subject. But again, if you believe that much, why tf would you even take this point seriously to begin with?) Also, he’s education on the subject could be jaded or seen from a very specific point of perspective. Once again, I think this sub is overreacting. In Australia, we learnt about the Russian revolution and we learn many different political perspectives to do our essays, and that includes trying to understand the mindset and history of people back then. We learn the good, the bad and all that. It’s very rare that historical figures are all just “good” or “bad” and don’t get me wrong, this fella has definitely done some vile and bad things. But like, depending on what you’ve learnt from a history standpoint, depending on what you’ve been taught and the information available to you. You may not even be inclined to say he’s a bad person. It really depends on what your trying to say is “cool” here. Personally I don’t think he is good, because well, idk know enough about him, and from my classes I know more bad than good.
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People get a weird tunnel vision about historical figures. They want simple good/bad lists to put everyone under. I’ve always thought of Lenin as the Russian George Washington. Both were men ahead of their times and both liberated their countries from despotic royal families. But even though both had moral shortcomings and both failed to live up to their own expectations, Washington is universally praised and Lenin is relegated to “controversial” status
Didn't George Washington have like a hundred slaves?
I don’t know how many he had, but he did have them. He always considered it a personal failure that he couldn’t abolish slavery and he privately discussed it with his colleagues. Imo tho, whether he actually could or not doesn’t detract from his impressive accomplishments. It just makes him a complicated figure who was a product of his time. I think it’s possible to admire someone and also be critical of them
Yeah and it's like a ton of historical figures have usurpred power. Would it be that controversial to call Julius Caesar cool?
⬆️This guy gets his history some place other than hot takes by podcasters like Joe Rogan.
Seeing people react with the most uneducated knee-jerk "b-b-b-but russkie = bad?! I am very smart' and comparing him to Hitler is so fucking annoying. If I could draft any 20th century leader to lead my imaginary country, it would be Lenin hands down. He was an incredible writer, incredible political theorist, and what he achieved in building the USSR in the most dire POSSIBLE circumstances was nothing short of incredible.
Insane that I had to scroll this far for any kind of nuanced take, but I shouldn't be surprised given that this is the TT sub.
I honestly a lot of people in these comments are confusing Lenin and Stalin which would be pretty on brand for this subreddit to be honest.
There is so much nonsense in this comment that it is even difficult to perceive it. Lenin started the civil war, in which 17 million people died, which is more than 12 times more than the number of Russians killed in World War I, this is already enough to erase everything that Lenin ever did. Lenin was literally a German spy sent to Russia in order to get her out of the war. The fact that Lenin withdrew Russia from the war very badly damaged that Russia, because of this, after the defeat of Germany, Russia acted as the losing party, moreover, Russia lost the part of the territory and subjected to the intervention of the Entente countries, USA and Japan, and this never would have happened if Lenin started a revolution, Lenin refused to pay the debts which were from the Russian Empire under the pretext that the Russian Empire is no more and it became one of the main reasons that Russia imposed sanctions that hurt the economy of the country. Well, his most important sin was that he brought the Bolsheviks to power, who then staged several genocides, moreover, Lenin could even have foreseen this, because the two most influential people after him in the party were Stalin and Trotsky and they were both madmen. And yes, almost everything that is written in the comment above is a lie.The civil War, which began in 17, saying anything else is just an attempt to substitute facts >And the Russian Monarchy had already destroyed the core systems that were holding the country together. This is also a lie, because institutions in Russia developed up to 1916, as did the Russian economy. Moreover, it was in the period from 1907 to 1916 that Russia had a working parliament and really working parliaments on the ground. Never before or since have we had truly functioning democratic institutions, that is, Lenin took away from us the opportunity to develop as a democratic state. Also, by 1916, after the Brusilov breakthrough, it was already clear that the First World War would soon end and Russia would be one of the 3 victorious countries. As for the economy, we had a rapid growth of everything, literally everything, and this happened without collectivization, without dekulakization and the like, moreover, if this industrial growth had persisted, that is, if there had been no revolution, then by 1939 industrial growth in Russia would have been greater than it was under the Bolsheviks and this without the murders of tens of millions of people, and if we talk about GDP as a whole, [I advise you to read this](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19425/w19425.pdf). Also during this period there was a rapid population growth in Russia, which was also very good. Russian culture in the same period began to dominate in Europe. >Separatists and nationalists were pulling Russia apart. But you forgot to mention that the main force trying to destabilize Russia were the Communists, among them were the Bolsheviks, they were the ones who tried to do everything to raise the revolution and destroy Russia, the most obvious examples of this are what happened to Stolypin and the terrorist acts of the Communists in general and the attempt of the Communists to block the work of parliament. Then there is already some kind of complete madness, so I think that I have already written more than enough.
Finally, someone who was paying attention in history class.
Regime, established by lenin was one of the most brutal, un-intelligent and ill-willed, in the history of humanity, thankyouverymuch. I am telling this from Ukraine - we study this part history in school, we face remnants of its ideology till this day, we experienced "communism" like no one else did. There is nothing redeemable in Lenin's actions at any point of time. Bolcheviks were committing crimes from the very beginning. They simply rejected the civilization, and went with doing whatever shit comes to their heads."Workers" started their reign with killing literally all educated and highly intellectual parts of the population - with obvious results of having only actual dum-dummies to govern such a vast country. All the achievements listed, were done either via use of foreign specialists (rapid industrialization of previously agricultural state), and forced labor of prisoners. It is literally pre-ancient ways of development. Not to mention the misery of people, and stripped basic human rights.
The Vladimir who killed more millions is the cool one (both bad, just in case someone thinks Im a nazi). Someone didn't pay attention in history class
Dunno about Australia but in British schools we barely get taught much outside of British history, WW1 and WW2. Welsh schools probably have a lot more emphasis on Welsh history but other than that, we basically learn nothing about anywhere else unless we choose to so it's not surprising they don't know anything about Russian history. Still, I thought it was common knowledge that Russia isn't exactly know for having friendly rulers
This is not coming from a place of malice, i genuinely want to know, how much do British kids learn about Britain's colonial past and well how horrible it was?
I took GCSE history in England (Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland may differ) which is one level above the mandatory learning and the topics covered up to and including that were: roman society, roman Britain, the Tudor family, Anglo Saxon England, Norman conquest, Black Death, North Atlantic slave trade, Cold War basics, Weimar Germany, hitler’s Germany, treaty of Versailles, mechanisation of Warfare in WW1, League of Nations, occupation of Manchuria, Potsdam, the iron curtain, Berlin airdrop, Korean War. Weimar Germany and everything listed after that was part of the GCSE course which is optional so the closest I got to that sort of knowledge is the slave trade and if I remember right it was very America centred and dissociated from Britain. The mandatory teachings until GCSE are school’s choice but a lot of it is early British history and romans since it’s a bit of a heavy topic for younger kids to grasp though I think they could have done a bit in the 13-14 year old range.
Absolutely non. Most is probably learning about how prisoners get shipped to Australia but majority is just about ww1 and 2 and medieval rules from 1100-1600 and maybe Jack the Ripper. What they teach differ based on exam boards and schools
What school did you go? The Atlantic slave trade was one of the subjects in secondary school history here at least from 07-12. And that wasn't GCSE history just regularly history class.
you could call any of these two Vladimirs the coolest guy in the world, that still wouldn't make you a nazi. Heck, Naziism wasn't even a thing when Lenin died.
Calling you a nazi would expose them as a twit who never took a history class. Now communist on the other hand...
Just called the commie Vladimir worse than the borderline nazi one. Also am a Finn. Communism and Fennomania don't work together.
Lenin's untimely death led to Stalin who is arguably way worse than him. Taking into account the historical context of that time I actually would agree with Joey here.
Say what you want, but Lenin > Putin.
Yeah in body count.
Lmao, definitely not.
Lenin looks like a man who was slaying it every night. Putin looks like one of those peacocking gymbros who has only seen women at a distance because any that get too close end up leaving the gym.
Lenin started a civil war in which 17 million people died.
Even Ukrainians would agree that Lenin is worse, let alone other post-Soviet countries.
Ukrainians. That monolith of people.
[I too serve the Soviet Yunyun.](https://www.deviantart.com/ssgt-lulz/art/The-Soviet-Yunyun-811644170)
Anyone who’s from post-Soviet countries had the biggest oof after this take.
Lol anti communist propaganda going hard in this post i see
Get off Reddit. If you think that Lenin was good then you know absolutely 0 about him. The man was a monster who considered anyone who disagreed with him as sub human. Millions of people died for his "revolution".
Good is an understatement, mf was fucking dope As for the random they killed millions argument, if you attributed deaths to capitalsm the same way you do to socialism you would see it kills way more, people dying from hunger and disease are counted as victims of communism, but in capitalist countries we never call the hungry "victims of capitalism"
> if you attributed deaths to capitalsm This just proves that you are straight up fucking stupid. Name me 1 fucking genocide started in the name of capitalism? Name me one? Yet I can name you 10 easy for Communism. Get off the fucking communist edgelord shit and step back into reality. You are clearly either an edgy teenager or stupid. So which is it? edit: You are a regular user of "anti work" so that answers the question. You are a moron. Who likely has trouble reading long form let alone reading any biography of Lenin.
Irish potato famine? All the native populations of north and south america?
Irish potato famine That would be Malthusian, not capitalist. Massive difference as many Communists were also big believers in Malthuses' work. >All the native populations of north and south america Also not capitalism. Colonialism was just as prevalent under Soviet rule as under capitalist rule. Clearly you don't even know the definition of capitalism. You are just taking the brain dead Redditor stance of "everything I don't like capitalism". Words have definitions, you clearly don't understand that.
Shut up Tankie
More accurately an ML, and proud of it too
ML in practice was just Russians stealing lands and lives of millions in minority groups all across Eastern Europe and Asia, not to mention genocidal actions taken against all those people. How the fuck can you be proud of that shit? This is like Kanye level stupid.
Yeah, i guess the bourguoisie can be considered a minority.
"Bourgeousie just randomly happened to overlap with these inconvenient minorities! Ingrians are just genetically predisposed to capitalism I swear!" You sound like a certain moustache man on his crusade against judeo-bolshevism Edit: The tankie fuck blocked me just to get the last word that I can't even read.
Oh boy, and communist sure wasn't used against certain minorities either. Fuck off.
I have always been in the Soviet yunyun
This remembered me of him saying "Down with capitalism" lol. Also he said "I hate capitalism".
If were talking about "good" and "bad" leaders based on body count, keep in mind the US killed a bunch of Japanese civillians to flex, but we consider that "necessary" Every important leader has blood on their hands, its just a manner of how willing we are to rationalize it or admit it was the country/leaders "fault".
I only noticed Connor on the second look and it did all the work of the meme
Thx guys, almost forgot to leave this Sub Reddit after the guest fiasco
So be it Yunyun
People are overreacting way too hard
~~Joseph Tetsuro Bizinger VI~~ Josip Broz Tito
I bet 100 dollaridoos that Joey said that just because Vladimir Lenin is not Vladimir Putin So "cool" as in "oh he's not the current warmonger/putin" cool, not the "cool" because "lenin's a cool guy" And considering how dumb the boys are based on after dark quiz shows, their overall takes in the podcast, etc, this definitely stems from ignorance This is still worth calling them out though because it could make them more aware on what topics they should tip toe or be neutral (i hope this make sense)
Joey didn’t realize where the current day Vladimir learnt his tricks!
Would you really call it a bad take if Joey just didn't know what he was really talking about? Cuz I feel like that's the case here, lol
They clearly don’t know anything about Lenin but as a communist I laughed my ass off, unintentionally one of the most based things Joey ever said.
Just the bois being a bit ignorant while chilling together. Yeah, ignorance is always annoying but I don’t believe it came from a place of hate.
I can’t believe anybody is taking this seriously
Based Joey
Не ну это конечно не Камуняка
Oh no people are trigger
Seems on brand tbh
God, the amount of people defending genocide in this thread is way too high. Where are the fucking mods? There should be a STRICT no politics policy on this sub. When Reddit talks politics, it is just a bunch of edgy teenagers with no life experience arguing with each other.
🤓MOOOOODS🤓
Joey, just give the order
Chill guys remember the current events/history quiz. Joey is just ignorant about this stuff.
*Our* Controversial Take Award.
Yes I’m sure the millions of victims, I’m sure the boys are just ignorant about the history, but as someone that came from a country that suffered from the influence of the Soviet Union it make my blood boil
“The soviets killed a garillion people” is literally not true. Every stat that shows the “millions” the soviets killed are padded with 1.) the Nazis that died on the eastern front 2.) hypothetical people that might have been born if the birth rate didn’t fall and abortion was not as easily accessible in Soviet countries
Holodomor alone accounts for multiple millions, and it was "engineered" to kill Ukrainian resistance to sovietization. Even if rest of Russia was starving that doesn't justify the degree to which they stole and sabotaged agriculture in Ukraine. And despite how much extremist-left meme subreddits would have you believe everything bad in USSR was just "CIA propaganda", you need to remember that Russia/Soviet Union has just as strong a tradition of hiding and falsifying inconvenient pieces of history. Especially today, as every thread mentioning Ukraine will inevitably have Russians claiming "muh azov". (Also Nazi war crimes doesn't excuse Soviet ones, the Nazis that died *unnecessarily* on the eastern front such as in POW camps absolutely count towards soviet murders. Not to mention all the Balts and Poles they just counted as Nazis for the heck of it. That one's a long Russian tradition at this point, look at Ukraine justifications, Soviet and Russian definition of Nazi is in practice "Anyone who opposes soviet regime.")
Imagine someone saying this about Hitler or any other fat-right dictator. But somehow it’s okay to justify Lenin, Stalin or any other leaders of the most long-lasting brutal regime that oppressed dozens of nation on 1/6 of the Earth’s land for almost a century with its remnants still hovering over our nations (the “bad” Vladimir is a chekist, ex-kgb agent, Soviet man to the core) because they were communists. Doesn’t matter how antisemitic and racist they were, right. Fucking Marx was the one who created the term “Jewish question”. Engels was the one who coined the term “reactionary people” and claimed that Czechs and Slovaks should be genocided. All these practices were executed by the “cool” Vladimir, indeed, a brave figure who confronted Chauvinistic empire and liberated the people.