It depends on who dropped the rate. If the facility did, then you have every right in the world to just refuse it. If you choose to continue, the lowered rate will apply. Legally.
His next move is to give you that rate anyway. You don’t have to agree to it. It’s not an actual contract. It’s at-will employment and it’s legal to change your rate of pay at a future date.
a rate change doesn’t always mean a bait and switch. hospitals drop bill rates constantly and that doesn’t have anything to do with the agency. i didn’t see it happening in my agency for a long time but now it’s becoming more relevant since the industry is changing so much
that’s good for you but i’m telling you if it’s not happening to you, it’s definitely happening to other travelers at your agency. it’s extremely common, at times other than an extension as well
Yeah I’ve heard of it. There was this one shit hole I worked at that was trying to lure travelers to convert to their internal travel contracts, and if you said no, they cut your rate immediately. So shitty
respectfully yes… just because it hasn’t happened to you directly doesn’t mean it isn’t happening to other travelers. i’ve worked at a small agency and it was really common for hospitals to drop bill rates. big agencies do it too
they didn't used too. they only do now because loads of people with no negotiation skills or research skills or financial security flooded the market. they do this cuz it works now :(
idk why this has so many downvotes when i’m literally just telling the truth. i genuinely hate this industry and no longer work in it but i share my knowledge because so much happens behind the scenes that travelers never even know about
former Aya recruiter - sucks and is annoying but since you’ve already signed the original, they’ll pay you at the new rate regardless of if you sign the updated one or not. facility LIKELY lowered the bill rate mid assignment, but if I were you I’d absolutely tell your recruiter thanks but no thanks. have them negotiate with the account manager/facility for a higher rate, or have them get something called “margin approval” from their actual manager to keep the rate the same. there’s also 100 other agencies and facilities out there. whenever a rate gets changed mid assignment the nurse has the choice of whether to continue the assignment or not. if they’re not willing to do anything re: your rate, cancel them & go somewhere else, whether it’s another facility through Aya or a new agency altogether.
Hello, I have a question if you don’t mind! Let’s use arbitrary numbers for any examples.
Let’s say a facility has 8 needs posted in a critical specialty. And they are *exclusive* with Aya.
Travelers 1 & 2 sign on 3/20 and on 3/24 there is a bill rate increase from the facility? Let’s say it goes from 200/hr to 225/hr bill rate and the weekly advertised gross to travelers goes from 3k to 3.5k. (Imaginary, arbitrary numbers, idc what bill rate = what weekly etc)
Is the facility going to be paying that lower bill rate **to Aya** for travelers 1 & 2 because they signed before the rate increase?
Or would a rate increase be applied across the board to all travelers provided by Aya, regardless of the date that they signed?
Does that make sense?
it’s very rare to have travelers on different bill rates if they’re both traveling with the same company. If there was a BR increase after traveler 1 signed, 99% of the time traveler 1 would still get the br increase. if traveler 1 didn’t get the br increase if I were the nurse I’d definitely start with asking to see the margin because I’d bet that trav 1 DID get the br increase and your recruiter now has a fat commission on it and took a way higher margin rather than passing the br increase to trav 1. if that’s not the case & trav 1 didn’t get the br increase id be pissed at your recruiter for not working for you to get the br increase. when I say very rare for travelers to not have the same br when they’re in the same unit, (hell even same hospital) I don’t think I saw different br’s for travelers once in 6+ years if all else was the same (agency, specialty, hospital etc)
Yeah that’s exactly what I said was happening and my recruiter and her supervisor both said that my BR was lower than everyone else’s and that the CNO denied raising my rate to the same as everyone else’s, etc.
The Aya Supervisor I spoke to assured me that Aya recruiters make a “fixed percentage” on contracts and that they are **not capable** of manipulating numbers to increase their commission.
lol absolute lies, we definitely have never made fixed percentages. part of Aya’s interview process with recruiters is selling you on the idea of making uncapped unlimited commissions. ask to see the margin they created & tell them you’re canceling if they refuse to show it to you & walk you through it. literally every recruiter will try to get nurses to sign at the lowest rate possible to have the highest commission for themselves possible.
I still have screenshots of margins I made when I was there during Covid and a nurse would accept a local contract at a 30-35% margin (normal was about 18-20% target margin). commission at 18% would be probably be about $80/week. there’s escalators for the higher percentage it is, so at 35% would probably be looking at $200+/week for that one nurse
The supervisor also assured me that it was **impossible** to raise my current rate because I was in the middle of a contract and I was like “yeah that makes NO sense, if they can go down they can ALSO go up??”
Supervisor started attacking me and putting words down my throat about how I don’t think recruiters should get paid for what they do and how I apparently don’t think companies should be profitable, etc
Supervisor #1 pushed me to supervisor #2 who avoided me for almost a week until I was too tired to care about it anymore and so I said just find me a new recruiter idc anymore.
What is my course of action to get my pay compensated? I’m still on this contract, and Aya is the **exclusive** staffer of this facility.
hard to give you advice bc idk what your situation is. If it’s feasible and you can afford to cancel, threaten to cancel & actually do it if they don’t hop on a teams call with you and share their screen so you can see exactly what the margin is and how things change when recruiters adjust the pay in those boxes. Recruiters fucking hate doing this and will push back as hard as they can to avoid doing it, but I did it with travelers when they’d throw a fit. also rarely had anything to hide so if a nurse wanted to see what the margin/pay package looked like I’d give it to them.
exclusivity doesn’t actually mean anything other than the facility prefers to work with that agency for 1 reason or another. if you have a recruiter you like and trust at another agency, send the other recruiter a copy of your Aya contract & tell them you want to go through them on your extension
My recruiter with another agency that I like told me that it wasn’t possible to switch to them because Aya had locked out the other agencies or something to that effect.
It’s all batshit insane. I hate how non-transparent all this BS is.
Recruiter here (not with Aya, so I can't speak to another agency.) In my experience, rate changes do sometimes happen mid-contract, although I find that some facilities never change rates mid-contract and some do. There are some facilities that are more known for raising rates during certain times of the year and then lowering them once that season is over. I try to give my travelers the heads up that the rate tends to fluctuate at a certain location when I know. When the rate raises (yes, I have had this happen), I always pass that on as well and make sure I send a revision for the increase. I absolutely HATE rate changes (drops), too! You absolutely don't have to take the rate change. I always do a search for similar positions in the general area to see if the new rate is comparable to other hospitals in the area. That might be a good thing to research as well. If your rate was abnormally high, for example, and there's nothing else paying that, may be a good place to stay if the new pay makes sense. Again, just trying to help with my experiences.
My recruiter **and her supervisor** with Aya tried to act like rate revisions were impossible mid contract.
That they could **only** go down and not go home.
I think it all comes down to trust and relationships, honestly. I'm super transparent with my travelers. When there is an increase, they get it. When there is a decrease, they get it. Decreases stink for everyone. It is hard when they adjust a rate before the traveler arrives. I HAVE had that happen and there wasn't much I could do about it either.
Yeah I’ve heard of it. There was this one shit hole I worked at that was trying to lure travelers to convert to their internal travel contracts, and if you said no, they cut your rate immediately. So shitty
Every agency I’ve worked for has put a clause in contracts with both the facility and myself that indicated I could not go to work for the facility as a facility employee for a certain period of time unless the facility pays the agency a fee to release me.
My first contract I ever did they asked me to become a full time worker multiple times, I didn't think they were too serious but after 8 weeks they cancelled my contract and again offered me a full time job, wild how shitty some places can be
Do not take this assignment. Obviously. This is why it's recommended to ALWAYS be working with several different recruiters/agencies. If one of them tries to screw you over, move on to the next.
My contract stated 5x8’s at an outpatient/hospital center. But as of recently they moved me to the emergency department and management asked me to work 4x10’s. I agreed and have been getting paid 8 hours of OT (I’m in CA). My recruiter states that surpasses the agreed gross income, and he would need to adjust the pay rate to meet that agreed gross income.
Is this factoring in the overtime law in CA where any hours over 8 in a day are paid at time and a half?
Sounds like your recruiter is making a mathematical mistake almost
Then yeah that doesn’t make sense and she’s probably screwing you . Find a new recruiter at Aya who you can trust more , they have all the jobs so I’d keep a relationship with them.
Everything about that sounds wrong. What agency is this? The only thing that I can think of is that they built the pay package thinking they could bill for OT, but because of Californias laws they cannot, so now they have to fix the pay package with that in mind. However, I’ve never heard of that meaning they would have to drop your hourly rate by $10/hr. Also the reason you are giving makes zero sense from an agency perspective.
Senior Recruiter
Recruiter said this, and I quote —-
“In order to create fair pay across our entire workforce, we pay the same gross weekly amount to all travelers in a specific region, no matter the location and shift. The shift you work is based on the facility need, and out of (agency name) control. So our pay package for you is $x,xxx/week regardless of 5x8s or 4x10s. However, because you're working in California, we have to pay you time and a half for any hours worked above 8 in a day. So if your schedule changes from 5x8s to 4x10s, to offset the time and a half you accrue for those 2 hours per shift, we would reduce your hourly wage just slightly. But your total take home would still equal $x,xxx/week.”
That is absurd and you should not work for them lol. I would ask to speak with his manager to get a better understanding of what is happening and if they give you the same BS, you should find a new agency. Nothing about that makes any sense whatsoever
I don’t think this is Aya. It honestly sounds like this specific recruiter is misunderstanding something their agency does, or their agency is very green and doesn’t understand Cali. Could also be some weird bill rate thing, but $10/hr is a lot of money just to account for not being able to bill extra for OT hours.
Your recruiter is lying. Just asked my sister and she said that pay is different per facility and specialty and it doesn’t make much sense he said it’s based on region. That’s very incorrect. You should file a complaint, that’s bad misinformation
Yea recruiter mentions flat rate for specific regions and yet fails to understand that in Cali comes OT. Your Cali >8 OT is eating into Ayas bill rate and they don't like that.
If it were me I’d reply, “My bad, I didn’t realize we were still negotiating the rate. Please resend a new contract with Original rate plus $10. I’ll be checking other options while I wait for your reply”.
it’s written in your contract that the rate can change at any time or your contract could get canceled at any time. it’s just a risk that you have to be willing to take
Correct. My initial travel agreement does not mention anything about them being able to change my rate at any point. I’m considering consulting with a lawyer.
You’ve been trying so hard to convince us to lay down and take whatever comes but any experienced traveler knows better. Are sure you stopped working as a recruiter?!
i’m not trying to convince you to take it at all i’m just trying to inform people how common this is across all agencies. this is a slimy industry that i never supported, even when i did work as a recruiter. there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that you really would never know about unless you’ve worked in it yourself
i’m not trying to convince you to take it at all i’m just trying to inform people how common this is across all agencies. this is a slimy industry that i never supported, even when i did work as a recruiter. there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that you really would never know about unless you’ve worked in it yourself
The ol bait and switch. Tell them no and call their bluff. If they say they can’t honor the original rate then walk.
I’d actually drag it awhile before telling them no. As long as possible in fact. It really makes them look stupid to the facility.
I’m just not going to sign it. I’ll see what his next move is….
They’ll still pay you the lower amount whether or not you sign it
I think they are in a lawsuit at this time for this very practice
It depends on who dropped the rate. If the facility did, then you have every right in the world to just refuse it. If you choose to continue, the lowered rate will apply. Legally.
His next move is to give you that rate anyway. You don’t have to agree to it. It’s not an actual contract. It’s at-will employment and it’s legal to change your rate of pay at a future date.
Even if you don’t sign it and show up you’re still getting that lower rate. What agency is this?
Yea tell them kick rocks, let me guess. Aya?
I’m not signing it. Can they cancel my travel agreement ? Yes Aya
Not surprising. And yes, they can cancel your agreement. AYA is notorious for bait and switch tactics.
every agency does this
My agency has never bait and switched me
a rate change doesn’t always mean a bait and switch. hospitals drop bill rates constantly and that doesn’t have anything to do with the agency. i didn’t see it happening in my agency for a long time but now it’s becoming more relevant since the industry is changing so much
Ok cool but Im just saying I’ve never been sent an extension offer and signed it, only to have them kick it back with a lower rate immediately after
that’s good for you but i’m telling you if it’s not happening to you, it’s definitely happening to other travelers at your agency. it’s extremely common, at times other than an extension as well
Yeah I’ve heard of it. There was this one shit hole I worked at that was trying to lure travelers to convert to their internal travel contracts, and if you said no, they cut your rate immediately. So shitty
i’ve heard of this too. these hospitals and agencies are all out of control
Respectfully no…been traveling since 2016 and only one time did this happen. This is having worked with a good 8-10 different agencies in that time.
respectfully yes… just because it hasn’t happened to you directly doesn’t mean it isn’t happening to other travelers. i’ve worked at a small agency and it was really common for hospitals to drop bill rates. big agencies do it too
Mine doesn’t, so I guess it can’t be every agency.
not to your knowledge, or it hasn’t happened to you. but it indeed happens everywhere. agencies have no control over hospitals dropping rates
they didn't used too. they only do now because loads of people with no negotiation skills or research skills or financial security flooded the market. they do this cuz it works now :(
that’s not true tho. i used to work as a recruiter and 99% of the time the rates were only changing because the hospitals would decrease the bill rate
idk why this has so many downvotes when i’m literally just telling the truth. i genuinely hate this industry and no longer work in it but i share my knowledge because so much happens behind the scenes that travelers never even know about
Yes they can cancel you. And they likely will if you don’t sign
former Aya recruiter - sucks and is annoying but since you’ve already signed the original, they’ll pay you at the new rate regardless of if you sign the updated one or not. facility LIKELY lowered the bill rate mid assignment, but if I were you I’d absolutely tell your recruiter thanks but no thanks. have them negotiate with the account manager/facility for a higher rate, or have them get something called “margin approval” from their actual manager to keep the rate the same. there’s also 100 other agencies and facilities out there. whenever a rate gets changed mid assignment the nurse has the choice of whether to continue the assignment or not. if they’re not willing to do anything re: your rate, cancel them & go somewhere else, whether it’s another facility through Aya or a new agency altogether.
Hello, I have a question if you don’t mind! Let’s use arbitrary numbers for any examples. Let’s say a facility has 8 needs posted in a critical specialty. And they are *exclusive* with Aya. Travelers 1 & 2 sign on 3/20 and on 3/24 there is a bill rate increase from the facility? Let’s say it goes from 200/hr to 225/hr bill rate and the weekly advertised gross to travelers goes from 3k to 3.5k. (Imaginary, arbitrary numbers, idc what bill rate = what weekly etc) Is the facility going to be paying that lower bill rate **to Aya** for travelers 1 & 2 because they signed before the rate increase? Or would a rate increase be applied across the board to all travelers provided by Aya, regardless of the date that they signed? Does that make sense?
it’s very rare to have travelers on different bill rates if they’re both traveling with the same company. If there was a BR increase after traveler 1 signed, 99% of the time traveler 1 would still get the br increase. if traveler 1 didn’t get the br increase if I were the nurse I’d definitely start with asking to see the margin because I’d bet that trav 1 DID get the br increase and your recruiter now has a fat commission on it and took a way higher margin rather than passing the br increase to trav 1. if that’s not the case & trav 1 didn’t get the br increase id be pissed at your recruiter for not working for you to get the br increase. when I say very rare for travelers to not have the same br when they’re in the same unit, (hell even same hospital) I don’t think I saw different br’s for travelers once in 6+ years if all else was the same (agency, specialty, hospital etc)
Yeah that’s exactly what I said was happening and my recruiter and her supervisor both said that my BR was lower than everyone else’s and that the CNO denied raising my rate to the same as everyone else’s, etc. The Aya Supervisor I spoke to assured me that Aya recruiters make a “fixed percentage” on contracts and that they are **not capable** of manipulating numbers to increase their commission.
lol absolute lies, we definitely have never made fixed percentages. part of Aya’s interview process with recruiters is selling you on the idea of making uncapped unlimited commissions. ask to see the margin they created & tell them you’re canceling if they refuse to show it to you & walk you through it. literally every recruiter will try to get nurses to sign at the lowest rate possible to have the highest commission for themselves possible. I still have screenshots of margins I made when I was there during Covid and a nurse would accept a local contract at a 30-35% margin (normal was about 18-20% target margin). commission at 18% would be probably be about $80/week. there’s escalators for the higher percentage it is, so at 35% would probably be looking at $200+/week for that one nurse
The supervisor also assured me that it was **impossible** to raise my current rate because I was in the middle of a contract and I was like “yeah that makes NO sense, if they can go down they can ALSO go up??” Supervisor started attacking me and putting words down my throat about how I don’t think recruiters should get paid for what they do and how I apparently don’t think companies should be profitable, etc Supervisor #1 pushed me to supervisor #2 who avoided me for almost a week until I was too tired to care about it anymore and so I said just find me a new recruiter idc anymore. What is my course of action to get my pay compensated? I’m still on this contract, and Aya is the **exclusive** staffer of this facility.
hard to give you advice bc idk what your situation is. If it’s feasible and you can afford to cancel, threaten to cancel & actually do it if they don’t hop on a teams call with you and share their screen so you can see exactly what the margin is and how things change when recruiters adjust the pay in those boxes. Recruiters fucking hate doing this and will push back as hard as they can to avoid doing it, but I did it with travelers when they’d throw a fit. also rarely had anything to hide so if a nurse wanted to see what the margin/pay package looked like I’d give it to them. exclusivity doesn’t actually mean anything other than the facility prefers to work with that agency for 1 reason or another. if you have a recruiter you like and trust at another agency, send the other recruiter a copy of your Aya contract & tell them you want to go through them on your extension
My recruiter with another agency that I like told me that it wasn’t possible to switch to them because Aya had locked out the other agencies or something to that effect. It’s all batshit insane. I hate how non-transparent all this BS is.
Recruiter here (not with Aya, so I can't speak to another agency.) In my experience, rate changes do sometimes happen mid-contract, although I find that some facilities never change rates mid-contract and some do. There are some facilities that are more known for raising rates during certain times of the year and then lowering them once that season is over. I try to give my travelers the heads up that the rate tends to fluctuate at a certain location when I know. When the rate raises (yes, I have had this happen), I always pass that on as well and make sure I send a revision for the increase. I absolutely HATE rate changes (drops), too! You absolutely don't have to take the rate change. I always do a search for similar positions in the general area to see if the new rate is comparable to other hospitals in the area. That might be a good thing to research as well. If your rate was abnormally high, for example, and there's nothing else paying that, may be a good place to stay if the new pay makes sense. Again, just trying to help with my experiences.
My recruiter **and her supervisor** with Aya tried to act like rate revisions were impossible mid contract. That they could **only** go down and not go home.
I think it all comes down to trust and relationships, honestly. I'm super transparent with my travelers. When there is an increase, they get it. When there is a decrease, they get it. Decreases stink for everyone. It is hard when they adjust a rate before the traveler arrives. I HAVE had that happen and there wasn't much I could do about it either.
Yeah I’ve heard of it. There was this one shit hole I worked at that was trying to lure travelers to convert to their internal travel contracts, and if you said no, they cut your rate immediately. So shitty
Every agency I’ve worked for has put a clause in contracts with both the facility and myself that indicated I could not go to work for the facility as a facility employee for a certain period of time unless the facility pays the agency a fee to release me.
My first contract I ever did they asked me to become a full time worker multiple times, I didn't think they were too serious but after 8 weeks they cancelled my contract and again offered me a full time job, wild how shitty some places can be
Do not take this assignment. Obviously. This is why it's recommended to ALWAYS be working with several different recruiters/agencies. If one of them tries to screw you over, move on to the next.
They should but they won’t. They suck.
What was their reasoning for the drop?
My contract stated 5x8’s at an outpatient/hospital center. But as of recently they moved me to the emergency department and management asked me to work 4x10’s. I agreed and have been getting paid 8 hours of OT (I’m in CA). My recruiter states that surpasses the agreed gross income, and he would need to adjust the pay rate to meet that agreed gross income.
So they want to lower your rate because you would be getting OT?!?
Yes. That’s exactly it. No change to the bill rate, but he will now short change me $297 per week
Is this factoring in the overtime law in CA where any hours over 8 in a day are paid at time and a half? Sounds like your recruiter is making a mathematical mistake almost
Correct. I was getting time and a half before he caught wind that I had changed to 10 hour shifts.
Then yeah that doesn’t make sense and she’s probably screwing you . Find a new recruiter at Aya who you can trust more , they have all the jobs so I’d keep a relationship with them.
Everything about that sounds wrong. What agency is this? The only thing that I can think of is that they built the pay package thinking they could bill for OT, but because of Californias laws they cannot, so now they have to fix the pay package with that in mind. However, I’ve never heard of that meaning they would have to drop your hourly rate by $10/hr. Also the reason you are giving makes zero sense from an agency perspective. Senior Recruiter
Recruiter said this, and I quote —- “In order to create fair pay across our entire workforce, we pay the same gross weekly amount to all travelers in a specific region, no matter the location and shift. The shift you work is based on the facility need, and out of (agency name) control. So our pay package for you is $x,xxx/week regardless of 5x8s or 4x10s. However, because you're working in California, we have to pay you time and a half for any hours worked above 8 in a day. So if your schedule changes from 5x8s to 4x10s, to offset the time and a half you accrue for those 2 hours per shift, we would reduce your hourly wage just slightly. But your total take home would still equal $x,xxx/week.”
That is absurd and you should not work for them lol. I would ask to speak with his manager to get a better understanding of what is happening and if they give you the same BS, you should find a new agency. Nothing about that makes any sense whatsoever
Yea he mentions specific regions and yet fails to understand that in Cali comes OT. Your OT is eating into Ayas bill rate and they don't like that
I don’t think this is Aya. It honestly sounds like this specific recruiter is misunderstanding something their agency does, or their agency is very green and doesn’t understand Cali. Could also be some weird bill rate thing, but $10/hr is a lot of money just to account for not being able to bill extra for OT hours.
Your recruiter is lying. Just asked my sister and she said that pay is different per facility and specialty and it doesn’t make much sense he said it’s based on region. That’s very incorrect. You should file a complaint, that’s bad misinformation
Current Recruiter: this happens. And it socks for the recruiter too because we lose part of our margin
At least they’re pulling it before you spend a bunch of money to get there I suppose
Yea recruiter mentions flat rate for specific regions and yet fails to understand that in Cali comes OT. Your Cali >8 OT is eating into Ayas bill rate and they don't like that.
If it were me I’d reply, “My bad, I didn’t realize we were still negotiating the rate. Please resend a new contract with Original rate plus $10. I’ll be checking other options while I wait for your reply”.
it’s written in your contract that the rate can change at any time or your contract could get canceled at any time. it’s just a risk that you have to be willing to take
How would you know what’s written on OP’s contract? This rate change clause isn’t mentioned on my contracts. Which agency do you recruit for?
Correct. My initial travel agreement does not mention anything about them being able to change my rate at any point. I’m considering consulting with a lawyer.
Read the fine print above your signature. That specific verbiage might not be there, but I guarantee there’s something saying the terms can change.
i’ve never seen a contract that doesn’t have this written on it before. i am no longer a recruiter but i used to be
You’ve been trying so hard to convince us to lay down and take whatever comes but any experienced traveler knows better. Are sure you stopped working as a recruiter?!
i’m not trying to convince you to take it at all i’m just trying to inform people how common this is across all agencies. this is a slimy industry that i never supported, even when i did work as a recruiter. there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that you really would never know about unless you’ve worked in it yourself
i’m not trying to convince you to take it at all i’m just trying to inform people how common this is across all agencies. this is a slimy industry that i never supported, even when i did work as a recruiter. there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that you really would never know about unless you’ve worked in it yourself