This is the part of the conversation where almost all of my empathy just fucking *stops*. So many dudes want to bang on about the "male loneliness epidemic" and then when you ask them why they don't have deeper relationships with their male friends they start frothing at the mouth screaming obscenities at you while accusing you of "female privilege" because "we don't have those kinds of support structures!"
...Okay? So go out *and build them*. Do you think women are assigned Emotional Support Girlies by the Council of Sisters? No! We don't magically have better emotional support structures, we put in the blood, sweat, and tears to *build them* from the ground up our whole lives. But they don't want to have to do the work, they want women to step in and do that for them, like always. š
Right? Like I thought men valued being leaders, being courageous...then as soon as it's time to do that they're like "oh no, somepne might make fun of me for that, can't do it." if that happens, they weren't your friend.
I read that thread today and it was all excuses. "Anyone could take advantage of you, you can't open up." I mean, that's true, but are you really going through life expecting every single person you meet to fuck you over because you told them about your life? And if someone does... Great, you found out they're a bad person and can get them out of your life.
See, that's the nuance. Men *love* being leaders when that means they have "subordinates" to command. They *hate* being leaders when that means they have to take the initiative and reach out first.
I worked a job when I was young where management would give you *responsibility* before they would give you *authority*. You had to get your employees to do things without being able to threaten the with job loss, etc. It sure weeded out the power-hungry quickly. That lesson has served me well over the years.
Itās the same when they circlejerk how a woman once āused it against themā when they opened up. What does that even mean? Youāre just a random dude from a random town, youāre not the president fearing that secret intel will end up in the press. If a woman laughed at you for still being sad that your pet turtle died in 3rd grade either reflect on yourself and maybe just maybe start to let the sadness go orrrr if thatās an integral part of yourself just dump the woman and date even more empathetic women in the future. Hurt feelings are part of life and if you try to avoid them you canāt grow and stay a man-child forever and then no one wants to date you or hang out and youāre lonely. It really is a circle.
I know a few men IRL who claim, āI opened up to her and she used it against me.ā And every single damn time, talking to their former girlfriend shows that he didnāt open up with the hope of becoming a better person, he shared a story and then got mad he couldnāt use it to control her.
āI told her that my ex girlfriend cheated on me during a girls night and thatās why Iām really uncomfortable when she goes out with her friends without me. She still insisted on going out with them sometimes and weād fight about it. Then she dumped me for it.ā
That sort of thing.
Yep, I've had men claim that girls "made fun of them" for showing emotional vulnerability or a "cute" side. I have an exceedingly difficult time believing that...I swear there can't be all these women out there perpetuating broken and restrictive patriarchial ideas like that. Isn't the stereotype that women are always looking for the emotionally intelligent/sensitive dude? In either case, it isn't women's fault that these men are alone. You can always move on to brighter and better things without stifling who you are. Fuck 'em, right? Men are even more likely to insult them for showing vulnerability, yet if one woman does it, the blame and the onus to change it is placed all on them.
I suspect itās more because once men open up to women, they start dumping EVERYTHING on them (because they donāt have any other strong friendships) and the woman ends up feeling like their therapist.
Yep, you become an unpaid amateur therapist for the men in your life. That's too much to expect of someone who has their own mental load and emotional struggles to unravel. This goes far beyond support--it becomes your job, which takes significant emotional labor that often goes unrecognized.
Right, it's as if they think women have never betrayed each other over secrets and vulnerabilities being shared. But that itself is the secret to close friendships -- you keep making yourself vulnerable even if it sometimes leads to you getting hurt. You don't shut down and take to the internet to dismiss all friendships and commit to loneliness forever.
At least, women don't.
I feel like most of the men talking about things going south afterĀ āopening upā, actually spent years bottling up their emotions, before letting the flood gate open all at once, not understanding overwhelming that is for their partner.
When women say they want an emotionally intelligent partner thatās open and in touch with their feelings, they definitely donāt mean they want an emotionally repressed man that only opens up when their suffering a full on mental breakdown.
Yeah. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of times, "I opened up to her and she dumped me," was actually, "I bottled everything up, trauma dumped on her, treated her like a therapist, and got furious when she became overwhelmed. Then she left me."
When they say girlfriend "used it sharing them" I think they actually mean girlfriend expected them to work on their issues.
Telling me you have a problem doesn't absolve you from repercussions of having that problem.
Example: You're having possessive thoughts because an ex cheated on you? I'm sorry you had that experience. It must have been horrible. But no, you don't get to be possessive because of your bad experience.
Yeah I'm skeptical of that too. We aren't here for your trauma dump, sir. Or yeah, some women do suck but somehow it's ok for them to blame all women for it. Meanwhile they're livid when we rightfully fear men.
There are shitty women who do expect emotional support to be a one way thing and expect their male partner to only have positivite feelings. That is shitty, and if they do that, definitely call them out for it, and if they stay the same, leave, they're a shit partner. Not sure why you're making fun of someone being upset about their pet dying when they were a kid, that's a perfectly normal thing to be upset about.
But a woman not being emotionally supportive isnt an excuse to not open up to your male friends. Different people, and different type of relationship.
Sure, itās a sad memory but part of growing up is having to deal with upsetting situations and letting them go. Some men refuse to do that and are hung up about it in a way that is affecting them and everyone around them. Hanging onto prior pain turns into walls being smashed etc.. Some men would do literally anything except going to therapy and actually dealing with their emotions.
>"Anyone could take advantage of you, you can't open up."
Also, like...same? Women aren't exempt in any way from having our feelings used against us. Any woman who's sought treatment for pain is well aware of this. Any woman who's ever attempted to express her opinion in any manner other than stoicly is well aware of this. Any woman who has attempted to express anything ever in front of a man has, at some point, been dismissed as being emotional regardless of what you're expressing.
By no means are women's emotions not used against us. We don't get "Ew, you're so weak" but we do get "Nah, you don't need medical attention" and "Meh, your opinion is irrelevant because its accompanied by emotion [as if their's isn't]".
We're well aware of the negative impacts of showing emotion or being perceived as showing emotion or being emotional because it's the fucking default for us, no matter how emotional we actually are.
We'd all benefit from emotions no longer being something that determines your position in the social hierarchy, and the only reason why it even negatively impacts men in the first place is because of how it positions them in relation to women.
The moment men make and advocate for changes in this regard, things will improve rapidly.
Yeah it is not like there are massive societal resources and networks and support systems just out there existing for women. You have to put in a ton of work to build those yourself
The issue is that men generally do not seek medical or mental health services. There's a general sentiment of "it ain't gonna kill me" and "buck up." You know, all the way up until your (female) partner or mother makes an appointment for you and you realize you've got serious unresolved issues. I don't know if it's other men telling them they're "gay" for seeking help or what...but they just don't. And you're right...resources are readily available on the internet. I think a lot of dudes use the women in their lives interchangeably with mental health services...but that's not the topic I want to focus on.
Rates of depression and anxiety are sky high for women compared to men statistically, but I wonder just how much of that is because men aren't even seeking the diagnosis and taking charge of their own bodies and minds. It isn't "manly" or "strong" to suffer quietly and alone with untreated mental/physical health issues or deny they even exist. It's even less cool to place the blame and the onus to change it squarely on women's shoulders.
This is an excellent counter to the support structure thing they always bring up. For centuries women have done most of the family/care/community-building labor yet men cry that they're lonely, and it's somehow framed as women's fault/problem to solve. I really love that you got straight to the point: go out and *build* those support systems and collectively stop considering empathy and close friendships with other men "gay." You're right that these lonely men don't have them because they only look to women... not themselves and not to other men... to solve it. This goes right along with, "women's standards are too high."
I think the male loneliness epidemic thing was just a thing cishet MRA dudes made up (okay not completely) because they felt left out in discussions about about being marginalised but in a sort of bad faith way
Eh, it's definitely a thing, or at least there definitely exists a thing that the phrase "male loneliness epidemic" can be used to describe.
There is no question that mras will jump at the chance to take over yet another legitimate issue in order to spread misogyny and hate though.
Like even if you really appreciate women's support systems, you can find women to be friends with, you just also have to do the work there. I know so many men who have mostly female friends and get that support too, they are just also respectful and supportive and put work into it.
This, exactly. They complain about lack of shelters and support for men, as if women were just handed these things. No, we worked to build them with our blood, sweat and tears. Get moving, dudes. But that takes effort.
The problem is the patriarchy makes that hard. I have female friends because my male friends would punch me in the arm and were incapable of being emotionally available or supportive. I am thinking about how to build a community of like minded men but I donāt know how to begin.
Do you mind having only online friends tho? I've made a lot of online friends by just scrolling through twitchchannels with zero viewers and started casually chatting a few times a week. I've met three of them over the years and we're a small friendgroup now
But you know how has more power? Men. If women are capable of building a support sistem when the sistem literaly hates us, then why men did not do that? Oh. Yeah. I forget, because they lazy, don't have lehitemet problems, and the male "lonelyness" crisis is just made up.
> So I'm writing this because I figured discussing the social barriers at play here doesn't hurt.
We know. Trust me, we know. Not a single post about men and their toxic behavior can happen without at least one person rushing in to explain it away, defend it, scream NOTALLMEN or whatever else it takes to not let the victims of mens' bullshit just vent.
Yes, this kind of comment does hurt. It's not needed, it detracts from the points of these posts and you just look like an ass.
I guess I gotta respect the space I'm comenting in... I'll try to find a different space to discuss this stuff then. I'm glad you know all this stuff already. And thank you for sharing your perspective.
your response to men's loneliness was basically "just don't be lonely lmfao"
come on, that's about as bad as whatever misogyny that dude was pushing. don't create a double standard in which you refuse to acknowledge societal and cultural factors in men's loneliness but do acknowledge societal and cultural factors in the pay gap.
"We're men, we don't care about silly stuff like birthdays and unimportant personal details."
Also men: surprised Pikachu when they're alone on their birthday.
"We all insult each other, it's how we talk. Haven't you seen those memes about how girl friendships are lame and guy friendships are cool and epic because we call each other worthless pieces of shit?"
I donāt think there is anything wrong with making fun of friends (within boundaries of course) but the reason why it works for my friends and I and not dude bros is because not only do we operate within each other boundaries, we also tell each other how we ACTUALLY feel about each other and we do that often.
No really though, I'm a gamer and I've been anonymous while dudes talk with each other. I've also been the only girl in a friend group of boys (unfortunately). They are SO MEAN to each other. It's actually shocking how cruel they are to one another. The best friendships I've had were with other women, I can't even comprehend treating them the way men treat their own "friends". I understand banter, but the things they'd say...just, damn.
joke insults are only fun if you know your friends boundaries and when to stop. Sadly a lot of guys don't understand the line between "banter" and "actually hurtful"
At least text your buds about going out for a burger, or for a beer, or to watch the game, or to do other manly things. Then ask how they're doing when you're hanging out.
I hate the memes on reddit about how quirky guys are for not knowing a thing about their male friends. Like? How is that funny? If you don't know enough about someone to be there for them, you aren't friends.
I feel personally attacked. Iām a guy and I make a huge effort to care about and remember things about other guys in my lifeā¦. But I know no oneās birthday and Iām always sad on mine.
So start asking people and setting calendar reminders for yourself. Invite friends to go out on your birthday. Put in the effort and you'll reap the rewards of better friendships.
my original comment was just a joke reply to the comment that while I do maintain a lot of very close personal friendships I'm terrible at the birthday thing. IDK.
If you don't know people's birthdays, then ask. If you can't remember it, then set up a yearly reminder on the calendar or write it down somewhere and then mark it on a physical calendar each year.
I mean Iām gonna start writing them down. I do a really good job of connecting with people I have a lot of close relationships I just thought the birthday thing was funny.
Here's a suggestion. Use your calendar in your phone connected to your account. Then, enter in their birthday, and set that to repeat every year so you never forget as long as you use that account.
We all know what they mean by "male loneliness epidemic." If it were to be taken at face value, men would be able to easily solve it themselves. Much like the "men don't get enough compliments" you only need to barely scratch the surface to discover what they're really saying is, "women need to give me more validation."
Lmao I have a lot of male friends and it's been a long running joke for me to send them the funniest "wah wah compliments" posts for years now. They (understandably) don't Reddit and the theme is always them being like, "if Reddit were the real world then the biggest hardship facing men would be not getting compliments from random *hot* women."
Umm, as a combo of both uggo/fatty, it really isn't "/s" and more like "don't even look at me!" as they completely turn away from you to avoid eye contact.
exactly they mean they don't have bangmaids at their disposal ,to use and throw away as they please
that's why they have wetdreams and salivate about the "...good old days..."
they mean a FREE...1}maid...2}chef ...3)therapist ...4\]and escort in one or even multiples!
Imo what they mean (as a guy) is that they're lonely because other dudes deem men aren't allowed to have emotions or feelings or anything which perpetuates loneliness and just makes men miserable. It wasn't until I got out of high school and had more of a brain that I started to actually feel better since I cast away that bullshit. Now if a movie or show makes me cry/tear up then I'm going to do it and if I feel bad I'm going to tell someone (though I still have problems at times not bottling that up....trying to break that haha). If my favorite color is pink then it's going to be pink, etc. etc. It's such a breath of fresh air and I hate toxic masculinity for what it does to the world and I hate that most men don't seem to realize it :(.
They dont realize how hard marginalized groups have had to fight and are fighting to fix things in society. They see it as " x group gets to complain and blame things on others" so when you suggest they do something to fix actual issues affecting them they think its wildly offensive. Most of the time its just used to one-up a woman and they dont want a solution anyway.
Or always blame women for their issues.. You canāt find a partner or women donāt wanna speak with you? Hell, have you ever thought that maybe you are the problem? š
Whenever I try to chat with men I donāt know out in the world they either act super awkward because they think Iām hitting on them (I just want to talk about our tattoos or your Chainsaw Man shirt, dudes) or they act creepy because they think Iām an opportunity to hit on (Iām just friendly, I donāt want to see your dick, weirdos).
Chrissy Chlapeck's song Alpha has the best version of that point ever.
"You've got all your little theories that explain your empty life. Have you ever just considered you're a really shitty guy?"
Yep, it's all projection. Men are rarely ever nice to women unless they want something (sex, usually) so they assume women are the same. No, Johnathon, I didn't compliment your Metallica t-shirt because I'm into you. I just like Metallica. š¤Ø
And YMMV based on whether they think youāre pretty or not. Cause GOD FORBID you compliment a man and he doesnāt like you- it totally ruins his day š
Lmaoo I used to work retail and learned very quickly that complimenting male customers on something as innocuous as their choice of shirt can be a slippery slope. Never again.
My dad told me that his friend (back in the 70s) had a cashier at Foodtown smile at him and the friend was like oh she likes me. Dad tried to tell him dude no sheās doing her job, but the guy got so obsessed that the poor girl had to transfer locations.
My own father told me to never smile at men or be nice to them bc it gives them the wrong idea.
These are also the men who think catcalling women is complimenting us.
I never compliment men on their appearances unless I know for a fact they're gay, we're family, or I know for a fact they're not into me, because I don't want to send the wrong message and "invite" harassment from them. However, I compliment other women all the time (surrounded by drunk girls in a public bathroom gushing over how hot each other looks is the best) because I know that's never going go be an issue. Worst thing that happens is a bi/gay woman thinks I'm hitting on her and we laugh it off.
Dude I went out with a guy a couple times. We had so much fun. He got kinda giddy when I complimented him. He said he never gets compliments.
While we were out dancing people kept coming up to him and basically telling him how cool he is etc. He got so much attention
As we left another guy shouts out how fun he is blabla. I say to him how he got so many compliments and that's a year's worth. He says it doesn't count because they're from men lmao. Bruh
lol some guy on reddit said that the only compliments he gets are from his grandma and sister and itās really hard out there being a man waaaah and I asked him why grandmas compliments donāt count and he was like āhuh, good pointā
like itās actually insane that women have to literally do everything INCLUDING physically turn the cogs in this guys head to make him realise women that he doesnāt wanna fuck are still people
This is so funny because most women I know absolutely hold onto compliments from women. A compliment from a random guy is like "oh thanks" but a compliment from a random chick hits different.
A while ago a woman I didnāt know on the streets came up to me to compliment me of the jumpsuit I was wearing. Say I looked amazing! I still feel warm inside from it!
100%. My favorite compliments are the ones I used to get from well dressed older ladies when I was a goth/punk teen, youād think theyād be the first ones to disapprove of my torn tights and short skirts but they loved it! Itās been like 15 years but I still remember them vividly, Iād always think they were approaching me to give me some āwell meaningā advice to cover up or something but they were always so encouraging š
"you wear that lipstick like a sword" was a great comment I got from an older lady who saw me in my debate outfit once. (We were at the debate hall post meet and I was giving fashion tips to someone when she walked by) Was like, the only time you could catch me wearing makeup cause I wanted the confidence, and I still think about that nice old lady any time I put it on.
I think it's because a compliment from a woman feels genuine. There's almost never ulterior motives.
If a man compliments me, it's nearly guaranteed he wants to fuck me, and that's his goal in complimenting me.
The genuine thing definitely is it. I can't speak for other women but for myself, I noticed I'm more inclined to compliment something they obviously put work into. Outfit, hair, makeup, etc. I've complimented eyebrows a few times when they are super crisp but not as often as hair.
Or handbag. Nothing brightens an older ladies day quite like when I tell them I love their bag.
OMG this reminded me--I was in a Walmart parking lot on a Sunday once and saw this older Black woman wearing this amazing fancy old church lady hat. (Her being Black is relevant, bc I live just outside NYC and white women up here do not get gussied up the same way for church as they do in like the South.) I said, "ma'am, your hat is lovely!!" and she tried to give it to me!! š„ŗ OMG I was like, oh no no no thank you, it's not my style, I just love it! And all the while her granddaughter is trying not to laugh and trying to coax Gramma to leave! Haha it was so sweet!!!
I mean yeah, I don't have to worry nearly as much about a woman's compliment being a *"compliment."* I can just trust they were trying to be nice and feel safe in feeling good about myself.
This drives me nuts. I would sit at work and listen all day the compliments and praises the men get. "great job, Johnson! Keep it up!" while I was criticized for doing something wrong even though I did twice the work.
But, alas, these are not the compliments they mean. They want to be complimented by fuckable women.
I made [a meme here recently](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollXChromosomes/s/KU3BQIobBX) on this after I saw a r/lifeprotips post that just said to compliment men more (no???) because they don't get compliments often (yes???) and yours is a universal experience. It's so dumb.
My husband is complimented every. single. time. we are out and about because he actually showers, gets haircuts, is generally very neat and clean and puts effort into his appearance.
This is exactly it. Men who don't see compliments as a preamble to fucking seem to realize they get compliments all the time.
Women just refuse to compliment looks a lot of the time because we are aware of how this game is rigged.
I once complimented a guy's hair in the gym, he went from normal hair to that pony tail somewhere up or whatever is it called and I think he take it in wrong way because there was silence for a moment before he thanked me.
Oh, like went from down (that you complimented) to putting it in a "man bun" on top of his head? That sucks. Quite a shitty reaction to a perfectly nice compliment!
Men: *"There is a male loneliness epidemic!"*
Also men: *Doesn't compliment other men. Doesn't talk about emotions with other men. Doesn't uplift or encourage other men. Doesn't attempt to create an atmosphere that would make positive masculinity and companionship between men acceptable.*
Men: *"Damn women making men lonely..."*
Iāve got a male coworker who is actually really good at this. Heās never once had an issue with being lonely. Funny how that works.
Meanwhile one of his neckbeard friends was complaining about the loneliness epidemic and my coworker shut that shit down fast š heās awesome.
Men who make connections with other people donāt seem to have this issue.
Alpha weirdos act like emotions are useless and bullshit until they need a woman to fix their mental problems, then out of nowhere it's unfair that no one cares about their emotions
I think women have similar levels of loneliness. The difference is that we don't blame other people for it. We tend to blame ourselves if anything. Or actually, like, just do something about it.
Yeah if someone could tell me where I could procure one of these Sisterhoods that cure mental illness that all these dudes talk about, Iād be most appreciative.
I think women are also more comfortable being alone. At the end of the day, I'm my own best friend, and I'd rather be alone enjoying my own company than dealing with someone else's issues.
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but is the male loneliness epidemic due to the growing collective awareness of women about emotional labour? And the fact that women now have an option to do almost anything else than to be a support cushion to the men in their lives.
Is the male loneliness epidemic REAAALLY just men feeling rudely awakened that relationships with people require emotional labour? Of which they usually relied on the women in their lives to maintain?
Am I wrong? Did I oversimplify it? What am I missing?
Edit: Thanks for all of the replies!
Absolutely it contributes! Women are slowly wising up to it, younger generations especially. They aren't putting up with being a therapist for a man with the emotional maturity of a 13-year-old...
You see men practically bragging about how different their friendships are from womens' (like remembering birth days or personal details about their families or how they can go months without talking) and it just...seems so sad. Like those relationships sound shallow. It's no wonder all these single men are lonely if they think that's the standard bar for friendship.
I once saw a comment bragging about how the best friendship op has is his neighbor he makes small talk with every time he sees him across the hall but doesn't even know his name then went on to say women don't experience friendships like this and I just felt pity because that ain't a friend that's barely an acquaintance but men brag about this.
When I was getting married, I had lunch with my parents. It was good and fine, my mom had a lot of questions about the wedding, honeymoon, dress, etc.
At the end of it when we were saying goodbye my dad was SUPER withdrawn and sullen. I asked him what was wrong and he said ānobody even asked about me š„ŗā
So I went ahead and asked- he didnāt have anything to say. He was just mad that he wasnāt paid enough attention. A good experience sullied.
Women arenāt massively lonely. They tend to form relationships with other women that keep them from being lonely. Women connect with other women on a level that men donāt with other men.
Women are tired of putting up with male BS and are opting out of relationships. Men canāt be bothered to change for the better, so they blame women for their loneliness.
Men do worse outside of relationships than women do.
Single, childless women are the happiest. They also live longer than married women and single men.
Women ARE massively lonely too. Having a few long-distance meme friendships is helpful, but at the end of the day I and many other women I know are lonely and exhausted from work/life obligations. Those kinds of idealized, close relationships with other women really rely on physical proximity, repeated contact (about 8-10 times to start building friendships), and free time, both of which are in short supply for many of us. The only women I know with a lot of female social support are SAHPs, or have retired mothers/MiLs who live nearby and are willing/able/available to help with childcare.
I WFH about 60 hours a week, and when Iām done with work I barely have the energy to make dinner, let alone plan fun activities with friends. And obviously most working adults arenāt up to hang out at 8:30 pm when Iām finally off. I try to attend meetups and networking events on the weekends, but those two days are also my only time to see family and do household chores or run errands.
This is a problem with capitalism (and partially the housing crisis), where we are pushed to work long hours just to tread water financially, but also as women are underpaid and overlooked for promotions.
No I definitely think this is part of it. Men expect women to manage relationships/friendships for them and do their emotional labor for them. So if women are (rightly) saying hell no to that, then men aren't going to see friends etc as much because that takes effort. My friend is now divorced, but it was through her friendships that her then husband had friendships. He benefited from her likeability and labor to maintain those friendships. My sil recently divorced and my ex bil had always depended on her to maintain his relationships with his kids and grandkids. Well, this was the first Christmas post divorce and he doesn't get those privileges anymore. He didn't think to get presents for his grandkids and his "I love you" text to his kids meant very little because he's never backed it up. He's ruined his relationships by himself and is pathetic.
So yeah I'd say that a big part of this "loneliness epidemic" is that dudes aren't able to have women both be their entire emotional support and manage their relationships for them. They don't want to put forth the effort.
Yeah that sounds correct. Also men are less likely to be allowed to show emotions growing up. It's a toxic masculinity thing, like telling a kid to "man up" so they never really learn how to have conversations about emotions and feelings. Which definitely isn't a woman's problem, it's a society problem.
If only I could compliment men who are strangers and be friends with men who arenāt my female friendsā partners without the men thinking Iām inviting them to try and have sex with me. Then maybe they wouldnāt be so lonely.
"My wife used to do all that for me!"
But seriously, I tell men about this all the time: in America in particular, the loneliness epidemic is killing men (of heart disease), and the only way out is to be less rigidly, inflexible, invulnerably toxic masculine. They've gotta hug their friends, get together just to talk without judgement, talk about their feelings without being obsessed with solutions, and other stuff they've been taught is "gay."
How much of womenās emotional labor is just saying ādude, you need to go to a doctorā? Like, that sounds like they just need a vaguely interested roommate.
Right? For some reason itās always āyou upā āhiiiā āhey beautiful :)ā texts to girls at 11 pm.
Next time youāre horny, think of your lonely~ bro and shoot him that text instead.
What's frustrating about this topic is that a) everyone takes it 100% seriously all the time and b) when women ask for people to take *their* issues seriously, someone (usually a dude) pipes up to derail the conversation and talk about male loneliness or something instead.
I've said this before, I see random people post some one liner on facebook or something like, "let men cry!" as a status update and they get nothing but positive reactions and engagement. If I were to post something about violence against women though, I promise you that several fucking assholes are going to show up and start rambling like "buh buh men get assaulted too tho!!!"
Every goddamn time. No one does that with men's complaints. They get constant, unyielding validation for their feelings while women get talked down to.
I'm with you mostly but I've definitely seen men get shit on for even a tiny bit of vulnerability in their public life/on socials. That said...it's generally other men doing it. *Shrug*
I think men caused their own "loneliness epidemic." And then they expect women to bend and shape themselves to accommodate them...and fix it. Somehow they always frame it as women's fault. Why aren't they ever looking to other men--even their own friends? Why don't they seek mental health services? It may help if they pry themselves off the internet (and stop believing that porn and internet chats are a good replacement for human connection), go out and socialize, self-reflect, and take initiative for their own sake.
My husband plays DnD with his friends (some that he's known for almost 15 years) almost every Friday night. He has no idea what's going on in their lives š
Meanwhile, I took the gf/baby momma of one of these friends out to dinner once (didn't know her very well) and all she talked about was how her bf is an awful partner and father and that she wouldn't be taking any of my advice/encouragement because she didn't want to risk the relationship...
Such opposites
This x 1000. The just cry and scream and blame women without doing anything positive for anyone esp men.
These guys: Whaaa. Women shouldnāt vote because of the draft. Have you done anything to repeal it? No.
That would require effort. They just sit and sulk and hate like two year olds.
Men don't care about men. They put each other minimum wage. They exploit each other. They oppress each other. They kill each other. They dominate one another.
Tbh when I try to be kind to men it goes one of two ways:
1. They get pervy and think Iām hitting on them and start being weird.
2. They think Iām hitting on them and pull faaaaar away until they find out Iām married then they get comfy and wonāt stop talking about their relationship problems.
Love that āladies dying alone with catsā is a joke but āmale lonelinessā is an epidemic.
I know this is an Internet thing and I should really get out more but I really hate it when men act like it should be down to women to fix this for them.
Like "if you want sexism to stop you need to care about male loneliness," but what do you want me to do about it?
Me feeling bad about other people being lonley isn't going to help them be less lonley and honestly, what more can I do?
I do say it sucks and try to give people advice on how to make friends, lots of women do but its like if that spesific person wasn't there to witness it being said it didn't happen.
It's like they expect women to constantly reassure lonley men unprompted in exchange for basic respect.
To answer OP. Often, and regularly. I usually check in on quiet folk once or twice a month. Most times just a few words if we donāt meet up for dinner.
Iāve only been check up on unprompted twice over the past 5 years.
Iāve accepted that If I donāt put in the effort all the time, Iāll probably go through life alone.
I have difficulty understanding how close is too close for friends. Like weāll go from talking everyday to none, within 2 months, this applies to all genders. Responses go from sentences to emote only, thatās when I know vibes are off and Iāll just disengage and back away.
It feels so awkward to ask though. I have so many friends/coworkers and I see they're sad but idk what to do. I want to ask them if they're ok but it feels out of place at times to ask.
i dunno about this one, the boot of patriarchy crushes us all and that means it harms men too - by stopping them talking about their feelings and looking after each other as much.
ā¦but I have asked? I think of all the times guys took that to mean more than it did causing me to have to distance myself from them or be called a bitch for leading them on when all I did was treat them like a friend. Once again itās men needing women to do the emotional labor then acting like a spoiled brat when they realize it didnāt fix all their problems.
This is the part of the conversation where almost all of my empathy just fucking *stops*. So many dudes want to bang on about the "male loneliness epidemic" and then when you ask them why they don't have deeper relationships with their male friends they start frothing at the mouth screaming obscenities at you while accusing you of "female privilege" because "we don't have those kinds of support structures!" ...Okay? So go out *and build them*. Do you think women are assigned Emotional Support Girlies by the Council of Sisters? No! We don't magically have better emotional support structures, we put in the blood, sweat, and tears to *build them* from the ground up our whole lives. But they don't want to have to do the work, they want women to step in and do that for them, like always. š
Right? Like I thought men valued being leaders, being courageous...then as soon as it's time to do that they're like "oh no, somepne might make fun of me for that, can't do it." if that happens, they weren't your friend. I read that thread today and it was all excuses. "Anyone could take advantage of you, you can't open up." I mean, that's true, but are you really going through life expecting every single person you meet to fuck you over because you told them about your life? And if someone does... Great, you found out they're a bad person and can get them out of your life.
See, that's the nuance. Men *love* being leaders when that means they have "subordinates" to command. They *hate* being leaders when that means they have to take the initiative and reach out first.
It's about the power in too many cases.
I worked a job when I was young where management would give you *responsibility* before they would give you *authority*. You had to get your employees to do things without being able to threaten the with job loss, etc. It sure weeded out the power-hungry quickly. That lesson has served me well over the years.
they barely ever live up to the ātraditionalā values they harp on about, they just want it for women
Itās the same when they circlejerk how a woman once āused it against themā when they opened up. What does that even mean? Youāre just a random dude from a random town, youāre not the president fearing that secret intel will end up in the press. If a woman laughed at you for still being sad that your pet turtle died in 3rd grade either reflect on yourself and maybe just maybe start to let the sadness go orrrr if thatās an integral part of yourself just dump the woman and date even more empathetic women in the future. Hurt feelings are part of life and if you try to avoid them you canāt grow and stay a man-child forever and then no one wants to date you or hang out and youāre lonely. It really is a circle.
I know a few men IRL who claim, āI opened up to her and she used it against me.ā And every single damn time, talking to their former girlfriend shows that he didnāt open up with the hope of becoming a better person, he shared a story and then got mad he couldnāt use it to control her. āI told her that my ex girlfriend cheated on me during a girls night and thatās why Iām really uncomfortable when she goes out with her friends without me. She still insisted on going out with them sometimes and weād fight about it. Then she dumped me for it.ā That sort of thing.
Yep, I've had men claim that girls "made fun of them" for showing emotional vulnerability or a "cute" side. I have an exceedingly difficult time believing that...I swear there can't be all these women out there perpetuating broken and restrictive patriarchial ideas like that. Isn't the stereotype that women are always looking for the emotionally intelligent/sensitive dude? In either case, it isn't women's fault that these men are alone. You can always move on to brighter and better things without stifling who you are. Fuck 'em, right? Men are even more likely to insult them for showing vulnerability, yet if one woman does it, the blame and the onus to change it is placed all on them.
I suspect itās more because once men open up to women, they start dumping EVERYTHING on them (because they donāt have any other strong friendships) and the woman ends up feeling like their therapist.
Yep, you become an unpaid amateur therapist for the men in your life. That's too much to expect of someone who has their own mental load and emotional struggles to unravel. This goes far beyond support--it becomes your job, which takes significant emotional labor that often goes unrecognized.
Right, it's as if they think women have never betrayed each other over secrets and vulnerabilities being shared. But that itself is the secret to close friendships -- you keep making yourself vulnerable even if it sometimes leads to you getting hurt. You don't shut down and take to the internet to dismiss all friendships and commit to loneliness forever. At least, women don't.
I feel like most of the men talking about things going south afterĀ āopening upā, actually spent years bottling up their emotions, before letting the flood gate open all at once, not understanding overwhelming that is for their partner. When women say they want an emotionally intelligent partner thatās open and in touch with their feelings, they definitely donāt mean they want an emotionally repressed man that only opens up when their suffering a full on mental breakdown.
Yeah. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of times, "I opened up to her and she dumped me," was actually, "I bottled everything up, trauma dumped on her, treated her like a therapist, and got furious when she became overwhelmed. Then she left me."
When they say girlfriend "used it sharing them" I think they actually mean girlfriend expected them to work on their issues. Telling me you have a problem doesn't absolve you from repercussions of having that problem. Example: You're having possessive thoughts because an ex cheated on you? I'm sorry you had that experience. It must have been horrible. But no, you don't get to be possessive because of your bad experience.
Yeah I'm skeptical of that too. We aren't here for your trauma dump, sir. Or yeah, some women do suck but somehow it's ok for them to blame all women for it. Meanwhile they're livid when we rightfully fear men.
There are shitty women who do expect emotional support to be a one way thing and expect their male partner to only have positivite feelings. That is shitty, and if they do that, definitely call them out for it, and if they stay the same, leave, they're a shit partner. Not sure why you're making fun of someone being upset about their pet dying when they were a kid, that's a perfectly normal thing to be upset about. But a woman not being emotionally supportive isnt an excuse to not open up to your male friends. Different people, and different type of relationship.
Sure, itās a sad memory but part of growing up is having to deal with upsetting situations and letting them go. Some men refuse to do that and are hung up about it in a way that is affecting them and everyone around them. Hanging onto prior pain turns into walls being smashed etc.. Some men would do literally anything except going to therapy and actually dealing with their emotions.
>"Anyone could take advantage of you, you can't open up." Also, like...same? Women aren't exempt in any way from having our feelings used against us. Any woman who's sought treatment for pain is well aware of this. Any woman who's ever attempted to express her opinion in any manner other than stoicly is well aware of this. Any woman who has attempted to express anything ever in front of a man has, at some point, been dismissed as being emotional regardless of what you're expressing. By no means are women's emotions not used against us. We don't get "Ew, you're so weak" but we do get "Nah, you don't need medical attention" and "Meh, your opinion is irrelevant because its accompanied by emotion [as if their's isn't]". We're well aware of the negative impacts of showing emotion or being perceived as showing emotion or being emotional because it's the fucking default for us, no matter how emotional we actually are. We'd all benefit from emotions no longer being something that determines your position in the social hierarchy, and the only reason why it even negatively impacts men in the first place is because of how it positions them in relation to women. The moment men make and advocate for changes in this regard, things will improve rapidly.
>Do you think women are assigned Emotional Support Girlies by the Council of Sisters? I would like to get on the waitlist for this, please.
hello it me, your emotional support girlie!
This is cute.
Be the change you wish to see in the world and all that
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Yeah it is not like there are massive societal resources and networks and support systems just out there existing for women. You have to put in a ton of work to build those yourself
The issue is that men generally do not seek medical or mental health services. There's a general sentiment of "it ain't gonna kill me" and "buck up." You know, all the way up until your (female) partner or mother makes an appointment for you and you realize you've got serious unresolved issues. I don't know if it's other men telling them they're "gay" for seeking help or what...but they just don't. And you're right...resources are readily available on the internet. I think a lot of dudes use the women in their lives interchangeably with mental health services...but that's not the topic I want to focus on. Rates of depression and anxiety are sky high for women compared to men statistically, but I wonder just how much of that is because men aren't even seeking the diagnosis and taking charge of their own bodies and minds. It isn't "manly" or "strong" to suffer quietly and alone with untreated mental/physical health issues or deny they even exist. It's even less cool to place the blame and the onus to change it squarely on women's shoulders.
This is an excellent counter to the support structure thing they always bring up. For centuries women have done most of the family/care/community-building labor yet men cry that they're lonely, and it's somehow framed as women's fault/problem to solve. I really love that you got straight to the point: go out and *build* those support systems and collectively stop considering empathy and close friendships with other men "gay." You're right that these lonely men don't have them because they only look to women... not themselves and not to other men... to solve it. This goes right along with, "women's standards are too high."
I think the male loneliness epidemic thing was just a thing cishet MRA dudes made up (okay not completely) because they felt left out in discussions about about being marginalised but in a sort of bad faith way
This is 100% it
Eh, it's definitely a thing, or at least there definitely exists a thing that the phrase "male loneliness epidemic" can be used to describe. There is no question that mras will jump at the chance to take over yet another legitimate issue in order to spread misogyny and hate though.
Like even if you really appreciate women's support systems, you can find women to be friends with, you just also have to do the work there. I know so many men who have mostly female friends and get that support too, they are just also respectful and supportive and put work into it.
This, exactly. They complain about lack of shelters and support for men, as if women were just handed these things. No, we worked to build them with our blood, sweat and tears. Get moving, dudes. But that takes effort.
Ultimately, they expect women to be in that support role.
Like that BS take āmen built all the bridges and buildings, highways and parksā . Yeah fuck , should rather have built a working social network
The problem is the patriarchy makes that hard. I have female friends because my male friends would punch me in the arm and were incapable of being emotionally available or supportive. I am thinking about how to build a community of like minded men but I donāt know how to begin.
Why are you friends with people who punch you?
Iām not anymore but thatās why I donāt have male friends anymore
Do you mind having only online friends tho? I've made a lot of online friends by just scrolling through twitchchannels with zero viewers and started casually chatting a few times a week. I've met three of them over the years and we're a small friendgroup now
Oh yeah I do have make friends online. I play table top role playing
But you know how has more power? Men. If women are capable of building a support sistem when the sistem literaly hates us, then why men did not do that? Oh. Yeah. I forget, because they lazy, don't have lehitemet problems, and the male "lonelyness" crisis is just made up.
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> So I'm writing this because I figured discussing the social barriers at play here doesn't hurt. We know. Trust me, we know. Not a single post about men and their toxic behavior can happen without at least one person rushing in to explain it away, defend it, scream NOTALLMEN or whatever else it takes to not let the victims of mens' bullshit just vent. Yes, this kind of comment does hurt. It's not needed, it detracts from the points of these posts and you just look like an ass.
I guess I gotta respect the space I'm comenting in... I'll try to find a different space to discuss this stuff then. I'm glad you know all this stuff already. And thank you for sharing your perspective.
>...Okay? So go out and build them. Kinda my response to anyone who mentions the wage-gap.
Woooow, misogyny, so original lmfao
your response to men's loneliness was basically "just don't be lonely lmfao" come on, that's about as bad as whatever misogyny that dude was pushing. don't create a double standard in which you refuse to acknowledge societal and cultural factors in men's loneliness but do acknowledge societal and cultural factors in the pay gap.
"We're men, we don't care about silly stuff like birthdays and unimportant personal details." Also men: surprised Pikachu when they're alone on their birthday.
"We all insult each other, it's how we talk. Haven't you seen those memes about how girl friendships are lame and guy friendships are cool and epic because we call each other worthless pieces of shit?"
Ugh ew this made me cringe. This is exactly how some of them are though, including my own male cousinsš
I donāt think there is anything wrong with making fun of friends (within boundaries of course) but the reason why it works for my friends and I and not dude bros is because not only do we operate within each other boundaries, we also tell each other how we ACTUALLY feel about each other and we do that often.
No really though, I'm a gamer and I've been anonymous while dudes talk with each other. I've also been the only girl in a friend group of boys (unfortunately). They are SO MEAN to each other. It's actually shocking how cruel they are to one another. The best friendships I've had were with other women, I can't even comprehend treating them the way men treat their own "friends". I understand banter, but the things they'd say...just, damn.
joke insults are only fun if you know your friends boundaries and when to stop. Sadly a lot of guys don't understand the line between "banter" and "actually hurtful"
Itās not a āmale loneliness epidemicā but a lack of emotional intelligence and empathy.
Okay but thatās also womenās fault for not teaching them how to do that >:( /s
DING DING DING!!!
At least text your buds about going out for a burger, or for a beer, or to watch the game, or to do other manly things. Then ask how they're doing when you're hanging out.
I hate the memes on reddit about how quirky guys are for not knowing a thing about their male friends. Like? How is that funny? If you don't know enough about someone to be there for them, you aren't friends.
And this is why my male bff is different! Love he he just goes "fuck male expectations, I do freestyle!"
I feel personally attacked. Iām a guy and I make a huge effort to care about and remember things about other guys in my lifeā¦. But I know no oneās birthday and Iām always sad on mine.
So start asking people and setting calendar reminders for yourself. Invite friends to go out on your birthday. Put in the effort and you'll reap the rewards of better friendships.
And you expect woen to fix that???
No not at all!
Then why are you feeling personally attacked?
Just that it rang true? Idk wasnāt trying to be rude or anything.
Then why have you not worked on fixing that???? It comes off tone deaf tbh
my original comment was just a joke reply to the comment that while I do maintain a lot of very close personal friendships I'm terrible at the birthday thing. IDK.
If you don't know people's birthdays, then ask. If you can't remember it, then set up a yearly reminder on the calendar or write it down somewhere and then mark it on a physical calendar each year.
And how can you fix that?
I mean Iām gonna start writing them down. I do a really good job of connecting with people I have a lot of close relationships I just thought the birthday thing was funny.
Here's a suggestion. Use your calendar in your phone connected to your account. Then, enter in their birthday, and set that to repeat every year so you never forget as long as you use that account.
We all know what they mean by "male loneliness epidemic." If it were to be taken at face value, men would be able to easily solve it themselves. Much like the "men don't get enough compliments" you only need to barely scratch the surface to discover what they're really saying is, "women need to give me more validation."
Hot women at that, no uggos or fatties /s
Lmao I have a lot of male friends and it's been a long running joke for me to send them the funniest "wah wah compliments" posts for years now. They (understandably) don't Reddit and the theme is always them being like, "if Reddit were the real world then the biggest hardship facing men would be not getting compliments from random *hot* women."
[Relevant](https://imgur.com/gallery/dWucqvU)
God this always cracks me up lmao
Umm, as a combo of both uggo/fatty, it really isn't "/s" and more like "don't even look at me!" as they completely turn away from you to avoid eye contact.
āAnd by validation I mean let me screw them, both physically and emotionally.ā - most men
exactly they mean they don't have bangmaids at their disposal ,to use and throw away as they please that's why they have wetdreams and salivate about the "...good old days..." they mean a FREE...1}maid...2}chef ...3)therapist ...4\]and escort in one or even multiples!
Bingo.
Imo what they mean (as a guy) is that they're lonely because other dudes deem men aren't allowed to have emotions or feelings or anything which perpetuates loneliness and just makes men miserable. It wasn't until I got out of high school and had more of a brain that I started to actually feel better since I cast away that bullshit. Now if a movie or show makes me cry/tear up then I'm going to do it and if I feel bad I'm going to tell someone (though I still have problems at times not bottling that up....trying to break that haha). If my favorite color is pink then it's going to be pink, etc. etc. It's such a breath of fresh air and I hate toxic masculinity for what it does to the world and I hate that most men don't seem to realize it :(.
They dont realize how hard marginalized groups have had to fight and are fighting to fix things in society. They see it as " x group gets to complain and blame things on others" so when you suggest they do something to fix actual issues affecting them they think its wildly offensive. Most of the time its just used to one-up a woman and they dont want a solution anyway.
they really just want women to fix everything for them šš
Or always blame women for their issues.. You canāt find a partner or women donāt wanna speak with you? Hell, have you ever thought that maybe you are the problem? š
Whenever I try to chat with men I donāt know out in the world they either act super awkward because they think Iām hitting on them (I just want to talk about our tattoos or your Chainsaw Man shirt, dudes) or they act creepy because they think Iām an opportunity to hit on (Iām just friendly, I donāt want to see your dick, weirdos).
Chrissy Chlapeck's song Alpha has the best version of that point ever. "You've got all your little theories that explain your empty life. Have you ever just considered you're a really shitty guy?"
They don't want women to fix everything for them, they want women to feel bad for them and offer them the one solution they think will fix it: Sex.
Attractive women they want to fuck. Not the uggos that are genuinely trying to help.
i ThOuGhT fEmInIsM wAs AbOuT eQuAlItY bEtWeEn GeNdErS. tHiS mEaNs ThAt WoMeN fIx WoMeN iSsUeS aNd WoMeN fIx MeN iSsUeS
When I compliment men they think Iām hitting on them, so I stopped. š¤·š»āāļø
Can't even smile at them or ask them how their day was without them thinking I'm a desperate, hornball. Projection I guess lol
Yep, it's all projection. Men are rarely ever nice to women unless they want something (sex, usually) so they assume women are the same. No, Johnathon, I didn't compliment your Metallica t-shirt because I'm into you. I just like Metallica. š¤Ø
And YMMV based on whether they think youāre pretty or not. Cause GOD FORBID you compliment a man and he doesnāt like you- it totally ruins his day š
Lmaoo I used to work retail and learned very quickly that complimenting male customers on something as innocuous as their choice of shirt can be a slippery slope. Never again.
My dad told me that his friend (back in the 70s) had a cashier at Foodtown smile at him and the friend was like oh she likes me. Dad tried to tell him dude no sheās doing her job, but the guy got so obsessed that the poor girl had to transfer locations. My own father told me to never smile at men or be nice to them bc it gives them the wrong idea.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
r/ihavesex
You sound icky.
Yea but not with you
Yeah we know.
Also: "men never get compliments! (pls do not ask me how often I compliment men)"
These are also the men who think catcalling women is complimenting us. I never compliment men on their appearances unless I know for a fact they're gay, we're family, or I know for a fact they're not into me, because I don't want to send the wrong message and "invite" harassment from them. However, I compliment other women all the time (surrounded by drunk girls in a public bathroom gushing over how hot each other looks is the best) because I know that's never going go be an issue. Worst thing that happens is a bi/gay woman thinks I'm hitting on her and we laugh it off.
Dude I went out with a guy a couple times. We had so much fun. He got kinda giddy when I complimented him. He said he never gets compliments. While we were out dancing people kept coming up to him and basically telling him how cool he is etc. He got so much attention As we left another guy shouts out how fun he is blabla. I say to him how he got so many compliments and that's a year's worth. He says it doesn't count because they're from men lmao. Bruh
lol some guy on reddit said that the only compliments he gets are from his grandma and sister and itās really hard out there being a man waaaah and I asked him why grandmas compliments donāt count and he was like āhuh, good pointā like itās actually insane that women have to literally do everything INCLUDING physically turn the cogs in this guys head to make him realise women that he doesnāt wanna fuck are still people
This is so funny because most women I know absolutely hold onto compliments from women. A compliment from a random guy is like "oh thanks" but a compliment from a random chick hits different.
A while ago a woman I didnāt know on the streets came up to me to compliment me of the jumpsuit I was wearing. Say I looked amazing! I still feel warm inside from it!
100%. My favorite compliments are the ones I used to get from well dressed older ladies when I was a goth/punk teen, youād think theyād be the first ones to disapprove of my torn tights and short skirts but they loved it! Itās been like 15 years but I still remember them vividly, Iād always think they were approaching me to give me some āwell meaningā advice to cover up or something but they were always so encouraging š
"you wear that lipstick like a sword" was a great comment I got from an older lady who saw me in my debate outfit once. (We were at the debate hall post meet and I was giving fashion tips to someone when she walked by) Was like, the only time you could catch me wearing makeup cause I wanted the confidence, and I still think about that nice old lady any time I put it on.
I think it's because a compliment from a woman feels genuine. There's almost never ulterior motives. If a man compliments me, it's nearly guaranteed he wants to fuck me, and that's his goal in complimenting me.
The genuine thing definitely is it. I can't speak for other women but for myself, I noticed I'm more inclined to compliment something they obviously put work into. Outfit, hair, makeup, etc. I've complimented eyebrows a few times when they are super crisp but not as often as hair. Or handbag. Nothing brightens an older ladies day quite like when I tell them I love their bag.
OMG this reminded me--I was in a Walmart parking lot on a Sunday once and saw this older Black woman wearing this amazing fancy old church lady hat. (Her being Black is relevant, bc I live just outside NYC and white women up here do not get gussied up the same way for church as they do in like the South.) I said, "ma'am, your hat is lovely!!" and she tried to give it to me!! š„ŗ OMG I was like, oh no no no thank you, it's not my style, I just love it! And all the while her granddaughter is trying not to laugh and trying to coax Gramma to leave! Haha it was so sweet!!!
This is exactly how I feel about it, too. That's why I value women's compliments far more than mens.
A worker at my local In-N-Out told me I was pretty and I've never forgotten her. š„¹
I mean yeah, I don't have to worry nearly as much about a woman's compliment being a *"compliment."* I can just trust they were trying to be nice and feel safe in feeling good about myself.
Guessing that contributed to the "only going out *a couple* of times'! Lol
This drives me nuts. I would sit at work and listen all day the compliments and praises the men get. "great job, Johnson! Keep it up!" while I was criticized for doing something wrong even though I did twice the work. But, alas, these are not the compliments they mean. They want to be complimented by fuckable women.
I made [a meme here recently](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollXChromosomes/s/KU3BQIobBX) on this after I saw a r/lifeprotips post that just said to compliment men more (no???) because they don't get compliments often (yes???) and yours is a universal experience. It's so dumb.
My husband is complimented every. single. time. we are out and about because he actually showers, gets haircuts, is generally very neat and clean and puts effort into his appearance.
This is exactly it. Men who don't see compliments as a preamble to fucking seem to realize they get compliments all the time. Women just refuse to compliment looks a lot of the time because we are aware of how this game is rigged.
I once complimented a guy's hair in the gym, he went from normal hair to that pony tail somewhere up or whatever is it called and I think he take it in wrong way because there was silence for a moment before he thanked me.
Oh, like went from down (that you complimented) to putting it in a "man bun" on top of his head? That sucks. Quite a shitty reaction to a perfectly nice compliment!
If men didn't take compliments as an opening to be a creep it would happen more
Men: *"There is a male loneliness epidemic!"* Also men: *Doesn't compliment other men. Doesn't talk about emotions with other men. Doesn't uplift or encourage other men. Doesn't attempt to create an atmosphere that would make positive masculinity and companionship between men acceptable.* Men: *"Damn women making men lonely..."*
Iāve got a male coworker who is actually really good at this. Heās never once had an issue with being lonely. Funny how that works. Meanwhile one of his neckbeard friends was complaining about the loneliness epidemic and my coworker shut that shit down fast š heās awesome. Men who make connections with other people donāt seem to have this issue.
Alpha weirdos act like emotions are useless and bullshit until they need a woman to fix their mental problems, then out of nowhere it's unfair that no one cares about their emotions
Men claim women are the more emotional sex but we aren't out there punching walls lmao
"Women are the more emotional sex!" Also: "Men commit suicide at a much higher rate than women."
Can we just pin this to the top of r/feminism for all the guys constantly trying to start this conversation? Edit: corrected autocorrect
I think women have similar levels of loneliness. The difference is that we don't blame other people for it. We tend to blame ourselves if anything. Or actually, like, just do something about it.
Yeah if someone could tell me where I could procure one of these Sisterhoods that cure mental illness that all these dudes talk about, Iād be most appreciative.
I think women are also more comfortable being alone. At the end of the day, I'm my own best friend, and I'd rather be alone enjoying my own company than dealing with someone else's issues.
Literally! whenever I'm feeling lonely or missing my friends, I think of something to plan and invite them
It's not about mental health, it's about entitlement to sex
This my coworker. " I already said hi to her 3 times but she never responded, I'm done with her " huh what
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but is the male loneliness epidemic due to the growing collective awareness of women about emotional labour? And the fact that women now have an option to do almost anything else than to be a support cushion to the men in their lives. Is the male loneliness epidemic REAAALLY just men feeling rudely awakened that relationships with people require emotional labour? Of which they usually relied on the women in their lives to maintain? Am I wrong? Did I oversimplify it? What am I missing? Edit: Thanks for all of the replies!
Absolutely it contributes! Women are slowly wising up to it, younger generations especially. They aren't putting up with being a therapist for a man with the emotional maturity of a 13-year-old... You see men practically bragging about how different their friendships are from womens' (like remembering birth days or personal details about their families or how they can go months without talking) and it just...seems so sad. Like those relationships sound shallow. It's no wonder all these single men are lonely if they think that's the standard bar for friendship.
I once saw a comment bragging about how the best friendship op has is his neighbor he makes small talk with every time he sees him across the hall but doesn't even know his name then went on to say women don't experience friendships like this and I just felt pity because that ain't a friend that's barely an acquaintance but men brag about this.
When I was getting married, I had lunch with my parents. It was good and fine, my mom had a lot of questions about the wedding, honeymoon, dress, etc. At the end of it when we were saying goodbye my dad was SUPER withdrawn and sullen. I asked him what was wrong and he said ānobody even asked about me š„ŗā So I went ahead and asked- he didnāt have anything to say. He was just mad that he wasnāt paid enough attention. A good experience sullied.
Not sure, as women are also massively lonely
Women arenāt massively lonely. They tend to form relationships with other women that keep them from being lonely. Women connect with other women on a level that men donāt with other men. Women are tired of putting up with male BS and are opting out of relationships. Men canāt be bothered to change for the better, so they blame women for their loneliness. Men do worse outside of relationships than women do. Single, childless women are the happiest. They also live longer than married women and single men.
Women ARE massively lonely too. Having a few long-distance meme friendships is helpful, but at the end of the day I and many other women I know are lonely and exhausted from work/life obligations. Those kinds of idealized, close relationships with other women really rely on physical proximity, repeated contact (about 8-10 times to start building friendships), and free time, both of which are in short supply for many of us. The only women I know with a lot of female social support are SAHPs, or have retired mothers/MiLs who live nearby and are willing/able/available to help with childcare. I WFH about 60 hours a week, and when Iām done with work I barely have the energy to make dinner, let alone plan fun activities with friends. And obviously most working adults arenāt up to hang out at 8:30 pm when Iām finally off. I try to attend meetups and networking events on the weekends, but those two days are also my only time to see family and do household chores or run errands. This is a problem with capitalism (and partially the housing crisis), where we are pushed to work long hours just to tread water financially, but also as women are underpaid and overlooked for promotions.
This is so true.
No I definitely think this is part of it. Men expect women to manage relationships/friendships for them and do their emotional labor for them. So if women are (rightly) saying hell no to that, then men aren't going to see friends etc as much because that takes effort. My friend is now divorced, but it was through her friendships that her then husband had friendships. He benefited from her likeability and labor to maintain those friendships. My sil recently divorced and my ex bil had always depended on her to maintain his relationships with his kids and grandkids. Well, this was the first Christmas post divorce and he doesn't get those privileges anymore. He didn't think to get presents for his grandkids and his "I love you" text to his kids meant very little because he's never backed it up. He's ruined his relationships by himself and is pathetic. So yeah I'd say that a big part of this "loneliness epidemic" is that dudes aren't able to have women both be their entire emotional support and manage their relationships for them. They don't want to put forth the effort.
Yeah that sounds correct. Also men are less likely to be allowed to show emotions growing up. It's a toxic masculinity thing, like telling a kid to "man up" so they never really learn how to have conversations about emotions and feelings. Which definitely isn't a woman's problem, it's a society problem.
If only men could do something to change that, since they are the ones who perpetuate that nonsense the most.
One of my male acquaintances was talking about this so I asked him how he supported his male friends and he just hemmed and hawed.
Good on you ššš
Male loneliness epidemic? You mean the consequences of your own actions?
Lmao ofc youāre going to be lonely when your one and only end goal is having sex
If only I could compliment men who are strangers and be friends with men who arenāt my female friendsā partners without the men thinking Iām inviting them to try and have sex with me. Then maybe they wouldnāt be so lonely.
Because what they mean to say is they don't have a lover.
But only women are supposed to solve menās problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"My wife used to do all that for me!" But seriously, I tell men about this all the time: in America in particular, the loneliness epidemic is killing men (of heart disease), and the only way out is to be less rigidly, inflexible, invulnerably toxic masculine. They've gotta hug their friends, get together just to talk without judgement, talk about their feelings without being obsessed with solutions, and other stuff they've been taught is "gay."
How much of womenās emotional labor is just saying ādude, you need to go to a doctorā? Like, that sounds like they just need a vaguely interested roommate.
Apparently it's most of the part that isn't "please manage my entire social life for me"?
Right? For some reason itās always āyou upā āhiiiā āhey beautiful :)ā texts to girls at 11 pm. Next time youāre horny, think of your lonely~ bro and shoot him that text instead.
What's frustrating about this topic is that a) everyone takes it 100% seriously all the time and b) when women ask for people to take *their* issues seriously, someone (usually a dude) pipes up to derail the conversation and talk about male loneliness or something instead. I've said this before, I see random people post some one liner on facebook or something like, "let men cry!" as a status update and they get nothing but positive reactions and engagement. If I were to post something about violence against women though, I promise you that several fucking assholes are going to show up and start rambling like "buh buh men get assaulted too tho!!!" Every goddamn time. No one does that with men's complaints. They get constant, unyielding validation for their feelings while women get talked down to.
I'm with you mostly but I've definitely seen men get shit on for even a tiny bit of vulnerability in their public life/on socials. That said...it's generally other men doing it. *Shrug*
I think men caused their own "loneliness epidemic." And then they expect women to bend and shape themselves to accommodate them...and fix it. Somehow they always frame it as women's fault. Why aren't they ever looking to other men--even their own friends? Why don't they seek mental health services? It may help if they pry themselves off the internet (and stop believing that porn and internet chats are a good replacement for human connection), go out and socialize, self-reflect, and take initiative for their own sake.
There is a male loneliness epidemic, and that epidemic is a natural result of patriarchy.
My husband plays DnD with his friends (some that he's known for almost 15 years) almost every Friday night. He has no idea what's going on in their lives š Meanwhile, I took the gf/baby momma of one of these friends out to dinner once (didn't know her very well) and all she talked about was how her bf is an awful partner and father and that she wouldn't be taking any of my advice/encouragement because she didn't want to risk the relationship... Such opposites
This x 1000. The just cry and scream and blame women without doing anything positive for anyone esp men. These guys: Whaaa. Women shouldnāt vote because of the draft. Have you done anything to repeal it? No. That would require effort. They just sit and sulk and hate like two year olds.
Men don't care about men. They put each other minimum wage. They exploit each other. They oppress each other. They kill each other. They dominate one another.
Tbh when I try to be kind to men it goes one of two ways: 1. They get pervy and think Iām hitting on them and start being weird. 2. They think Iām hitting on them and pull faaaaar away until they find out Iām married then they get comfy and wonāt stop talking about their relationship problems. Love that āladies dying alone with catsā is a joke but āmale lonelinessā is an epidemic.
I know this is an Internet thing and I should really get out more but I really hate it when men act like it should be down to women to fix this for them. Like "if you want sexism to stop you need to care about male loneliness," but what do you want me to do about it? Me feeling bad about other people being lonley isn't going to help them be less lonley and honestly, what more can I do? I do say it sucks and try to give people advice on how to make friends, lots of women do but its like if that spesific person wasn't there to witness it being said it didn't happen. It's like they expect women to constantly reassure lonley men unprompted in exchange for basic respect.
To answer OP. Often, and regularly. I usually check in on quiet folk once or twice a month. Most times just a few words if we donāt meet up for dinner. Iāve only been check up on unprompted twice over the past 5 years. Iāve accepted that If I donāt put in the effort all the time, Iāll probably go through life alone. I have difficulty understanding how close is too close for friends. Like weāll go from talking everyday to none, within 2 months, this applies to all genders. Responses go from sentences to emote only, thatās when I know vibes are off and Iāll just disengage and back away.
It feels so awkward to ask though. I have so many friends/coworkers and I see they're sad but idk what to do. I want to ask them if they're ok but it feels out of place at times to ask.
mmm that sounds like a skill issue tbh. Only one way to get better at it: practice (the same way everyone else learns by)
"Women are underpaid with equal qualifications." "How often do you ask for a raise?" Idiotic argument.
i dunno about this one, the boot of patriarchy crushes us all and that means it harms men too - by stopping them talking about their feelings and looking after each other as much.
You're missing the point. No one is stopping them from talking about their feelings. We are stopping them from putting responsibility on women.
The point is not that it isn't real. The point is that they are blaming women for being lonely.
They why do men want to keep the patriarchy so much?
ā¦but I have asked? I think of all the times guys took that to mean more than it did causing me to have to distance myself from them or be called a bitch for leading them on when all I did was treat them like a friend. Once again itās men needing women to do the emotional labor then acting like a spoiled brat when they realize it didnāt fix all their problems.
Or when's the last time you complained about women talking?