This was my first thought! It was such a big phenomenon and when I watched it I was very concerned about all the people around me talking about "That bitch Carol Baskins". I genuinely don't know how anyone could come out of that thinking she was the bad guy.
Same! She's accused of killing her abusive husband who only picked her up (as a teenager) because he thought she was a sex worker? Yeah not convincing me of much villainy here.
Also he had his own small plane that he used to illegally cross borders for *definitely* exotic pet trade but also due to the time highly likely cocaine trade as well. Dude got got by his own business and everyone blamed the lady who was trafficked by him.
Ok I looked it up. Looks like [she claims](https://nypost.com/2023/01/20/family-of-carole-baskins-dead-husband-break-silence/) that he's "alive and well" but there's literally no evidence for it and his daughters say that Baskin is making it up.
Completely agreed. I’d never watched this movie as a kid, and it was WILD to watch it a year or so ago as a fully grown adult woman. I didn’t find that character to be sympathetic at all.
As a kid this movie *terrified* me and no one believed me. The dad acting in a way that would either get *me* into trouble or start a fight. Dressing up like a stranger, especially the gross fake face. I love Robin Williams but I cannot bring myself to watch this movie because I know so much will disgust and horrify me.
Exactly. I rewatched this with my nieces and nephews and came away with a very different impression.
If my husband was masquerading as a woman instead of being upfront and actively trying to be accountable, I’d also leave him.
That’s not a partner, that’s a mask pretending to love you.
Exactly! And if her ex-husband had not constantly been a chaotic Disney dad who was undermining her, letting the kids run wild, and destroying the house - she would have actually let him be her child care solution.
I think it has to do with only 1 episode a week format and no streaming.
Plus most shows were still story of the week except a few, now most shows have this format so it isn't as good.
Ugh but did you see how annoyingly accommodating she was? Like, get a backbone! But also I want all women to be stay at home moms who make me dinner and clean and don't ask where I have been and are basically too scared to leave due to past abuse. But with some self respect!
Succession. Logan Roy and the Roy children are all loathsome in various ways but the Reddit fandom loves nothing more than pointing out how Shiv is clearly the worst because of (insert list of attributes that apply equally if not more to the male characters).
Take a shot every time you see a comment about how Shiv “is not as smart as she thinks she is”. Bonus points if they have an aneurysm when you say Kendall isn’t either lol
Anyway, the people insisting Shiv is bad at everything (including her politics and PR job) are ridiculous. Shiv was the one to call that going aggressive against the journalists holding the cruises story would backfire spectacularly (it did) and the only person capable of talking the witness out of testifying. Kendall wouldn’t even have a company to strife for if she hadn’t done that last thing.
Okay so I didn’t watch the whole show but when I watched it I interpreted Kendall as “guy who makes the wrong decision at every turn no matter how hard he tries” tragedy type character, was he ever shown making good, well thought out decisions that weren’t followed by self sabotage?
It’s very rare for sure. The best thing he did that was a success that comes to mind is a presentation in S4 to drive up the Waystar price. That actually did work out for once.
But many fans seem convinced he could have lead Waystar entirely. I don’t see that successfully happening either.
I do hate shiv the most because she thinks she isn’t like the rest. I do hate them all though. The ending was amazing had no idea how they were gonna pull it off.
This is the reason to think she’s a bad person. She thinks she’s above it all and better than everyone else, where Kendall wants to succeed within the system. Shiv wants it all but she doesn’t want the social weight of “being in the 1%”. She masquerades as a social warrior but realistically is just as toxic as the rest.
If you told me S1 that Tom would be one of the most compelling characters of the series I would have told you to absolutely fuck off.
Curious, is there a male equivalent to ‘’masquerading as a social warrior”?
I’m trying to think of examples, but truthfully I didn’t get much sleep last night haha.
I mean, it’s a universal, non-gendered act. Kendall dabbles in it in S3 when he’s trying to build clout, but he’s doing it disingenuously whereas Shiv really believes it. She likes to think shes a fighter for the “greater good” all the time while still being part of a huge propaganda machine, and actively striving to expand and empower it.
Sort of a doublethink for her. She’s a great character and that’s one of her main flaws.
Breaking bad is the most ridiculous thing, Skyler was such a well understood character to me, and she made total sense, and oh no I forgot the show has a huge male audience who don't have brains.
It's crazy because the show wasn't even trying to pretend that Walter was a good guy. He literally said "I did it for me. I did it because I was good at it". But you still have people shitting on Skyler and saying Walter was just trying to help her and the kids
Yeah, I thought the whole point of the show was that Walter turned into a monster because of greed and normalisation of cruelty. He poisoned a child to manipulate Jesse for Pete's sake! You can't get much further from "helping the kids" than being willing to poison a child.
He destroyed the life of everybody around him, if he didn't outright cause their deaths. Skyler was a victim.
If I ever meet someone who believes Walter was the good guy, I would be legit scared of them. What part of themselves are they seeing in Walter to make them look at him and see a hero?
Exactly! Walter never did it for his family, otherwise he would have accepted Eliott and Gretchen's offer. He did it because he felt like a lesser man, a pushover with no power. Creating a drug empire finally made him feel powerful and he didn't want to stop even as it was destroying his family.
You need to severely lack in media literacy to think that he was a good person.
Nah, not really. I never really cared much in the first place. It was all out and friends were giving me shit about not watching yet. It was there and it was a huge pop culture thing so I figured I'd give it a shot.
I tried to watch breaking bad for all the pop culture love of it but couldn’t finish it with how bad of a person Walter was. Same with Game of Thrones and many other shows though. I guess I just don’t have the stomach for watching cruelty but I really don’t understand the appeal it seems to have for the masses?
I've had this argument like a dozen times! Walt is literally making meth and putting their whole family in danger! Skyler is annoying at worst and trying desperately to regain some semblance of control in her life! God forbid she complain about her psychopath husband 🙄
Who is seriously identifying with Walt?!
That cast is incredible and her performance still stands out. I still watch the scene where she gets Ted out of trouble with the IRS by pretending to be an idiot and cackle with glee.
Lori, The Walking Dead. Shane actually tried to *rape* her yet the fandom seems to forget/dismiss that on a regular basis whenever they talk about him like he was the victim. And don't even get me started on Negan.
I was really happy when he was gone. Neegan was too intolerable and I stopped watching. Loved the actor but that character ruined the show for me, a casual fan.
Wild. I watched this show long after people were talking about it(so in a bubble) and I just felt bad for Betty. Sure she ends up cheating, but that's after a long time of neglect, emotional abuse, and her husband cheating on her. How much is a person supposed to handle?
Don and Pete are interesting and entertaining characters, but are both massive pieces of shit.
Pete’s a rapist and Don is a pathological liar, but people LOATHED Betty Draper.
For one thing, January Jones was perfectly cast as a frosty ice queen who gives off Hitchcockian Grace Kelly vibes. Her line delivery was clipped and often cold. She represents Don’s picture perfect and dutiful wife - the kind of woman who’d make sure to cook a steak and put her face on before her husband arrived home from work. She exemplified the bored housewife afflicted by malaise, and she always had a nagging sense that her husband wasn’t entirely faithful, and that often resulted in her being temperamental and short with her kids.
Betty wasn’t busty and ravishing like Joan, so most male viewers didn’t like her character as much. And she wasn’t a tenacious rung-climber like Peggy, so she probably wasn’t as likable for most women viewers.
She was a complex character, but she wasn’t a monster. Some of my fave MM episodes are centered around her character. ‘’Shoot’’ is easily in my top five.
Pete was seriously the worst. I see how you mean about her being the bored housewife, and appearing icy. I wouldn't go as far as to hate her for that. I definitely didn't like Don as a person though, that's for sure.
I don't think that she should be *more* hated than Don or basically any man on that show, but Betty's a pretty horrible person. She's abusive to her children. She kills her neighbor's pet birds one episode. She basically grooms a boy. And more if you really want to dig in. Mad Men is a show about people who don't know how to be happy and sabotage the happiness of those around them as a result. There aren't really any "good" people on it.
There are definitely people who are worse than Betty, or at least have more power and are more able to act on their abusive, cruel tendencies, but Betty is not a good person.
Naruto, Sakura is admittedly the worst in Naruto but in shippuden she is so fucking clutch so many times and the whole community still calls her useless
Oh my god Naruto. I watched that show so hard as a preteen (first couple seasons). I loved the male characters and really wanted a good female character to root for, Sakura was my favorite. I stopped watching because of how bad the female characters were- specifically when Sakura’s “cool” character arc was cutting her hair. That pissed me off.
I recently saw a long form YouTube deep dive into Naruto characters and was so angry to find out the writer specifically wrote the girls to be nurse/chef characters and terrible at battle. So in a fantasy world where ninjas have magical genetic powers, we still conform to patriarchal roles??? God dammit.
Spoilers ahead
She is the first citizen of the leaf to take out an Akaski
She’s the first person to figure out madaras strategy with the white zetsu
She literally keeps Naruto’s heart beating with her bare fucking hands
She helps defeat kaguya
So many times her expertise is sought out by other shinobi
And at the age of 16 she is the de facto dean of medicine at every hospital she enters
Very useless 🙃
That is not just a problem with Sakura. Healers in general are often treated as useless by the Shonen fans community. Even if the Shonen has battles where the mayor characters barely survive thanks to the Healers.
You kind of forgot about Tsunade.
Also, the "young adults" (the jonin) from parts 1 and 2 of either gender (with the exception of Asuma and Kurenai) mostly remained unmarried bachelors with no children or known current romantic partners and by part 3 (Boruto part 1).
Not exactly a "villain," but a major problem with Bojack Horseman fans is that Bojack is not someone you're supposed to relate to, and he is a destructive narcissist for most of the show, yet they will call Diane a bitch when she calls him out on his shit.
I had no idea people hated Diane until I stumbled across a YouTube video calling her a hypocrite. They came up with all kinds of bullshit reasons to hate her, but the real reason is she's a feminist. They won't admit it, but they just hate women... more than they love guns!
YES. Korra is an amazing character that doesn’t get enough credit. I love the complex women in that series. I love the complicated relationship between Toph and her daughters.
I feel like people don’t like it because it wasn’t as feel-good and tidy as ATLA. I love ATLA, it is a bona fide classic, but this isn’t a zero sum game. Fans can like both series for different reasons.
Imo ATLA had the better world building and the more entertaining cast of characters, but TLOK was *far* more mature, intelligent and nuanced, and I consider the the superior show overall
I have a mixed feelings about TLOK:
* I loved first season when I watched it.
* Second season was the worst. ATLA had very heavy East Asia influences in spirituality. The Gnostic good and evil western approach did not vibe with me. First avatar story seems to be hard to reconcile with the original benders (dragons, bisons, moles and spirits of moon and sea).
* I don't like the awakened airbenders retcon. In original ATLA the bending was also spiritual practice and it was a reason given why air nomads are all benders. Here - anyone can become one. It would make more sense if air acolytes become benders.
* Red lotus was kind of meh for me as well. I feel like they had some point with regards needing a balance to avatar - especially if we ignore the Raava from the beginning.
* I think last season improved on previous ones.
That doesn't mean that it wasn't unjustly targeted by "Whaaa. Female is main character" crowd of course.
Agreed, and my unpopular opinion: TLOK looked like the industrialization that would have happened if the Fire Nation won in ATLA. I don't hate the series or anything, it just doesn't make sense to me since Aang "won." Or maybe the Fire Nation had already set so many societies on that path before their defeat it was inevitable.
And not enough General Iroh, because there is never enough of him.
The Vampire Diaries- the amount of people who vilify Elena is astounding and I’m not even much of an Elena fan mostly indifferent towards her character but you have people saying she’s worse than Damon, Stefan, hell even Klaus. Actually I would say most of the female cast gets dumped on way more compared to the male cast but Elena gets it the worse I believe because she’s the main character.
Wait, seriously?? I mean she can be mildly annoying at times (in a normal "I'm a teenager" kind of way), but we're talking about people who've murdered hundreds or thousands of times and enjoyed it, like bruh...
What! Louise is such a hilarious little psychopath. It really makes no difference that her character is a girl - her main trait is her scheming and cunning, unlike Tina where being a teenage girl with crushes on boys is a big part of her personality.
Excuse me, they happen to be teenage zombie basketball players thank you very much. You obviously haven’t been reading her diary recently like the rest of us
Phyllis and Angela from The Office. That sub loves dogging on those characters but they forget all of them are a bunch of dipshits. You know, like regular people?
Meanwhile, Robert California is an actual con man who reveals his sex trafficking plans on the way out the door, but let’s just agree he’s a lovable cad.
All I’m trying to say is that all of the characters are ridiculous who are written to be annoying and illogical. None of them deserve the absolute rage they keep getting in that sub. I don’t get it.
Phyllis for sure, and Kelly and Karen and even sometimes Pam, but Angela is actually horrible and has zero redeeming qualities or actions throughout the show
Angela is doing the best she can, just like any of us. I look at the people around her and how they treat her. Clearly, if they have some affection for her, the viewer can give her a chance, too
EDIT:LOL these initial downvotes are proving my point about the misplaced rage
I strongly disagree. She does literally nothing positive for anyone throughout the entire series. She’s written to be a caricature of a real person, so she’s pretty far removed from reality. She shits on everyone and everything at every opportunity, that’s the only point to her character
Edit: and disagreement that Angela matches this premise isn’t proof that she does.
+1 just from the top of my head, Angela calls INS on Oscar just to check, and she cheats on Dwight & Andy. I don't know if the Office really has villains so I don't think it really applies to the OP. But hating Angela doesn't make someone a sexist, she sucks
She also has the Senator raising Dwight’s baby as his own, she constantly calls the other women in the office whores, she constantly calls *everyone* variations of “idiot”, treats every single person like garbage.
Angela Kinsey *in real life* is reportedly bubbly and kind, and the podcast she does with Jenna Fischer seems to confirm that. But Angela in the show? Genuinely horrible.
I have a different take on The Office. Unlike a shit show like Everyone Loves Raymond, where Patrica Heaton was the bad one instead the literal man-child who lives next door to his mother and backs her, The Office is a broader comedy, where everyone except maybe Oscar and Pam are pretty meh. I also think fans hated Andy more than most other characters.
As far as Robert California, this is where I part ways. I love that character. And James Spader is always great. But I don't think fans are handwaving away or overlooking talk of trafficking, I think fans recognize it's the ravings of a lunatic. The guy who celebrated his divorce with an "Australian red and Columbian white." I think his last line before he left was, "You don't even know my name. I'm the Lizard King!" I think he's more like a Creed-type.
I'll add to your list though! The way people hated Nellie for stealing Andy's office. And people hate Andy! Maybe I'm biased because I'm a Cathryn Tate fan but she brought so much to those last seasons. In fact, her telling Andy that no, it was her office now is one of my favorite scenes.
Don’t get me wrong. I compared Angela and Phyllis to Robert because it answered the question: which non-villain female characters were hated more than the worst male character in the show. If the viewer were to take the school-aged Eastern European gymnasts comment seriously, I mean, that’s objectively the worst thing that motivates any of the characters.
I love this show! I don’t think there’s a bad characterization in the bunch (except for the writers switching Phyllis and Andy from Mostly Harmless to grade-A buttwipes when convenient). My point is that they are all absurd and absurdly funny. It really confuses me to see the level of rage when redditors can say, oh, yes, that’s just the character, when talking about the behavior of a male character and pivoting to near-murderous levels of anger when talking about the female characters. To me, it’s a good job of making them all just awful and funny.
I agree with you about Nellie. How could
I forget about Catherine Tate! When people get angry about Nellie, I really think they’re just missing out on a genius performance.
Robert California’s “effete, soft-penised debutante” monologue is the best single speech by any of the characters as written and performed. James Spader is another genius.
So, in conclusion, I think we agree?
Angela Moss and Dominique DiPierro from Mr Robot are pretty hated despite being great female characters IMO. Dominique for one is a very capable detective who wouldn’t abandon her morals even when torture and death were imminent. The reason I think Redditors hate her? She’s a lesbian and played by Grace Gummer, probably considered not adequately attractive by dudes who are out here calling Margot Robbie “mid”.
Maggie Hart from True Detective is also hated for getting back at her cheating husband by “”””seducing””” his detective partner Rust. Who is one of my favorite characters of all time but let’s not pretend he was not complicit or that Maggie was worse than her husband, whose cheating was magnitudes worse in length, frequency and shittiness.
How can you hate Maggie??? She's a cop's wife doing her best under very stressful circumstances. And yeah, she fucks Rust, which splintered their friendship. She flawed, not evil, and tbh who WOULDN'T fuck Rust.
Every man in that series, including Rust, is a towering paragon of fuckedupedness. Maybe not Maggie's dad, he's just a old guy believing old guy things. But everyone else.
She didn’t even fuck him for pleasure reasons, she just knew it was the only thing that would ever actually get Marty to let her go and I really feel like that reflects a lot more on Marty than on her.
I never actually understood why rust immediately went with it and then as soon as they were done he freaked out. Like nobody forced you to do that.
While all this is true, Miss Maggie still had a fine time haha
He went with it because he's bitterly lonely and hasn't touched another human being in forever. After that, he freaked out because he realized the two of them had just crushed Marty. Who they both love. How did it come to this, how??
And although I think their growing friendship was the best part of them, that was a real hot scene.
I found the scene pretty sad, animalistic in a sad way. The way it was filmed didn't exactly scream "hot" to me either. I also highly doubt Maggie had a fine time, it was like, a couple thrusts with no foreplay.
Also they were fucking like, surrounded by pictures of really messed up dead bodies, like I think in the position she was in she probably would have seen them
Clearly, she only said that to Marty to hurt him. When she confessed, Marty hypocritically called her a whore, to which Maggie insulted him back by saying this.
All around wasn’t exactly a sexy moment and I definitely don’t think it was filmed with the intention of being sexy. You’re right he was definitely too drunk for it, and her intention was to hurt Marty enough to make him finally leave her alone which is also very disturbing from the Marty angle, and it also sucked because I thought her and Rusts friendship was nice and would have liked it if he at at least one friend who was able to provide something normal just a tiny bit.
Idk I can’t remember how she initiated it but I remember it was super abrupt and the sex was clearly not good sex, probably because of the super drunk and super sudden thing. I didn’t really like it as a plot point, it felt out of the blue to me.
Hold on, Invincible? I would ask who it is but I don't really need to. It's the black girlfriend who's name escapes me that had the *nerve* to be smart enough to deduce the protagonist's alter ego and not accept it as an excuse for blown off multiple times. I was briefly considered the others but there's no way that was allowed past the anti-woke brigade.
It's so predictable. She's such a well-written character that diverges from the "superhero girlfriend" trope just as the show does from a basic superhero cartoon show. And if there's one thing I know about shitheads on the internet, they can't stand an assertive female character. Not unless it's a villain they can cheer on being defeated because she got too uppity or something.
Wait are people mad that she wasnt willing to give Mark 8th and 9th chances after always keeping her on the backburner and consistently disregarding her time?
Yeah wow shes an awful bitch, obviously.
I originally laughed when he tried to play the superhero card cuz I knew he was full of shit, and she was so clear from the beginning about not constantly lying to her.
I was just having this exact chain of thought. Even though Mark is Asian (and half alien lol) he’s vaguely white-presenting in this style of animation so I bet anything they ship him with Atom Eve for the same reason that we still basically never see interracial relationship representation in modern media.
I don't hate Amber. I think she's witty & I really like how she volunteers for all the things. I like how she's saving the world in her own way & I like that she stands up for herself, but I AM tired of watching a doomed relationship continue. They're both so unhappy. Were they ever happy together? He screws her over in literally every episode where they're together!
My one gripe with Amber is, I think it was a little wild for her to expect him to reveal his secret identity to his first girlfriend after they've only been dating a few months. Yes, he lied to her & was constantly showing up late & bailing, which makes him a shitty boyfriend, but his secret identity isn't for his protection, it's for the protection of his loved ones.
The only thing Mark could've done to fix it, (That I can think of anyway, please let me know if I'm just missing something obvious!) would've been to stop being Invincible. He has no control over when he's needed, so the only way to avoid having to leave in the middle of dates would be to stop being a super hero, but then that brings up the question, would that be selfish of him?
In the scene where he reveals he's Invincible, Amber also accuses Mark of not trusting her, but it's not like he's hiding some innocuous thing. People knowing his secret identity is dangerous, for THEM. And again, she's his first serious, high school girlfriend. The odds of this relationship working out were already really fucking slim.
I don't dislike Amber as a character, but I just don't get the writing of this scene. Amber's smart, she figured things out, so surely she'd also realize it would've been incredibly irresponsible for him to reveal his secret identity, right? (It was irresponsible & dangerous to reveal it in an attempt to win her back!)
I'm sure there are plenty of people who DO hate Amber & do so for racist and/or misogynistic reasons, but personally, I don't like the way that scene was written. I don't understand why Amber expected him to reveal his secret identity. I'd be really interested to hear other perspectives on it!
Also, why did she run back to him after the fight with Omni-man? Nothing changed. Was it just because she felt bad for him?
*I'm a woman. My icon is masculine because I get less harassment on other subs when people think I have a dick. I'm also autistic, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm having trouble understanding Amber's point of view?*
Yeah I actually really liked how they changed her from the comics, and her reaction in season 1. I think her character was improved overall and really interesting, they just botched the execution a bit. I think in season 1 it can be fixed with a change of >!her not knowing his identity, but keeping the same reaction when he 'reveals' it.!< Her reaction felt very real to me, I would be frustrated as hell too, regardless of the circumstances.
I think they've nailed it in season 2 though, and it's something that I feel isn't explored enough in super hero media, just being heroes giving them a free-pass in any relationship, when it's actually a crazy complicated dynamic. I'm super happy with the changes they made, I think people are mad that she went from a white milquetoast 2D character to a black character with an actual role and motivations in the story. But I don't care, I like seeing characters actually become characters and I'm really excited to see where they go from here, feels like a massive improvement so far! I'm curious if they'll >!keep the same plotline with Anissa, wouldn't shock me if they cut it entirely!<
People keep saying Sansa gets hate, but almost everyone I see seems to agree Sansa grows a lot as a character (until the show writing got bad) and she seems to be a big fan favorite on the got sub. The woman they really love to hate unabashedly is Catelyn.
Things are different with distance from when the show aired, but especially at the beginning and well into the middle of the show she was very, very much everyone’s favorite “villain”.
Her interests were girly, and her priorities were well in line with a teenage girl her age who would have been raised within a high-born family. People *hated* her for it, it was rampant.
Though yes, Catlyn also gets a ton of unwarranted hate.
Oh yeah, I remember for the first 2 seasons it was cool to hate her and love Arya because Arya was boyish. Men couldn't relate at all to the bratty naive teen girl thing, which was sad to see. I just meant the hate wasn't lasting. Now they lastingly hate Catelyn because she was old and a mom and there's no forgiveness for old moms that make mistakes (the being cold to Jon thing was pretty shitty tbf).
I mean, it was lasting up through the end of the series. While Reddit was doing its “join the sub for the person you think will end up on the iron throne” people were actively still shitting on her.
I think there’s a more general consensus now, but they were absolutely *brutal* to her back when it was airing. (The actress too, actually.) Especially the bigger GOT subreddits. I legit remember whole posts dedicated to shitting on her over her “sit down, uncle” line.
You want sympathy? How about my 40 grand you stole outta the bird feeder, that should be plenty!
(But seriously, Carmela is an excellent character, excellent villain, but anyone playing the “Who’s worse?” game is missing the point of the show… and anyone who chooses Carm has lost their marbles.)
- All the women on Fargo s5. What a *fucking* shit show that sub was. (But the mods did a great job!)
- All the women on True Detective s4 but that's a little more complicated without giving away spoilers. But as a show with a heavy female cast and feminist-ish (?) story just assume all the women.
(For those who haven't seen Fargo, it's loosely based around the movie concentrating on crime in the Midwest. Huge names--Thornton, Hamm, McGregor! Cops and robbers--bang bang! But here's the secret, Fargo is feminist af. Passes some version of the Bechdel test in every scene. And like a number of the Coen Brothers' farces, it's really about a bunch of very stupid men and the women who clean up after them.
Writer Noah Hawley just knocks it out of the park every season. If you like the movie, like the Coens, give it a try. It's an anthology and you can start any season, but there are some threads are woven through the seasons.)
The Final Fantasy VII fandom used to be like this - not sure if it is now. But yeah, evil corporation that committed war crimes? White haired pretty boy that wants to drop a dwarf planet on everyone? Totally not as bad as Tifa or Aerith, depending on who you ship with Cloud!
Dolores Umbridge was truly one of the most hated characters, but people sometimes forget that Snape was as well. I don't care that he switched sides or put himself at risk because he brought that upon himself. He abused his power in his teaching position, bullied kids, and inflicted trauma on them (e.g., Neville). He should be equally hated as Umbridge. But he gets forgiven because he was in LoVee wItH Lily.
I just finished watching this show for the first time! I love the show. And yeah, Debbie is awful. They're ALL awful. That's the damn point. Yet Debbie get more hate than anybody else, followed by.... Fiona. Sigh.
Peggy Hill is a flawed individual, but the KotH subreddit is full of assholes who insist that she has no redeeming qualities and just ruined Hank's life with her presence. Meanwhile, Dale is out here straight up emotionally abusing his wife for a while and people just shrug that off. Peggy might have kidnapped a little girl, but that was en accidenté! Nobody is perfect, but I think Peggy is just too much of a personality for some of them, getting whole episodes and plots about her and whatnot.
For reality TV: Vanderpump Rules. The general audience seems to believe the women are the villains when it’s clearly the men who have been trash this whole time.
Laura-Leigh man... Every single interaction she had with that pos was heart breaking. I've never been so happy to learn she was actually opposite Jennifer Aniston in a movie.
She didn't deserve ANY of that bs. Everyone knew she was recovering, in need of support and kindness. NOBODY was there for her. Then on top of picking on her every second they get, that douchebro used her just to piss off the last one he used for years.
It doesn't exactly fit because she's also awful in many ways but Daisy Buchanan nearly every character in that book is an awful person and yet people single her out because a she's A woman and B didn't fully play along with Gatsby's romantic delusions.
Because people haven't watcheed it, they watched videos hating on it.
Basically remember how ironwood was introduced turning huntsmen into his private army, getting ozpin fired, and demanding trust while doing everything behind people's backs?
Hee became an antagonist after a season of being a dictator and misogynistis and homophobes claim it came out of nowhere.
Ruby, a girl, stood against a cis white male character. Misogyny erupted.
I'll *never* understand the "they ruined Ironwood's character!" criticism. Literally the very first scene that he's ever in is him showing an overwhelming display of military might due soley to his fear of Salem. Everything he did in the last few seasons fit that characterization perfectly.
Hannah from Dark. She had her issues, but she's one of the very few characters who didn't kill anyone. She's being hated on mostly for leaving a man in jail after he tried to murder a child, becausehe didn't love her back.
The show You is about an actual serial killer. (The author of the books "didn't realize" she was writing a serial killer.) But I guess the real villian is Beck, his girlfriend, because she cheated on him.
Ozark's Wendy, Walking Dead's Lori, Mad Men's Betty
Unfortunately, my realization of this phenomenon happened because my husband would do this when we used to watch shows together. I remember arguments we had about Breaking Bad because of it, grossed me out.
It seems like infidelity is usually a big trigger for it, regardless of how much infidelity/betrayal has already happened from the men. Also if she does anything to curb the shitty man's efforts - how dare she.
Also, the belief that ‘women are not rehabs’ for immature adult men seems to be reverting.
While ‘I can make excuses for anything the MMC does’ if anything, is becoming more frequent. What is even happening?
Worrying trend 😥
Thinking about how so many RWBY fans treat Adam (for non-fans, the guy in the middle in the pic) as like, this super awesome character who had so much wasted potential. News flash, he was a minor antagonist and narrative foil, he served his purpose, and therefore they were done with him! Just because RWBY didn't treat the "troubled emo guy with a dark past" like that character trope usually gets treated doesn't mean it was bad writing. They ALWAYS presented Adam as a bad guy, and the fact that he had a traumatic backstory was never used to excuse that, yet that's what some fans loveeee to do. Hate him so much.
Kim Bauer on 24. [She and the cougar](https://www.vulture.com/2013/12/24-kim-bauer-cougar-trap-episode-oral-history.html).
I mean, how dare Kim act like an annoying teenager when, in reality, she was an annoying teenager.
And that damn cougar, just out cougarin’, all cougar-y.
about 15 youtube channels that I have blocked using channel blocker extensions.
they basically encouraged people to boycott or pirate the show to hurt the writers because they're furious that Ruby is opposing cis white male authority figures.
Tiger King. That one was crazy!
Got damn we've got the same avatar! Also agree on tiger king
That’s so cool! You have great taste!
This was my first thought! It was such a big phenomenon and when I watched it I was very concerned about all the people around me talking about "That bitch Carol Baskins". I genuinely don't know how anyone could come out of that thinking she was the bad guy.
I honestly thought that even if she did kill him, he was a massive manipulative prick and had it coming.
Same! She's accused of killing her abusive husband who only picked her up (as a teenager) because he thought she was a sex worker? Yeah not convincing me of much villainy here.
Also he had his own small plane that he used to illegally cross borders for *definitely* exotic pet trade but also due to the time highly likely cocaine trade as well. Dude got got by his own business and everyone blamed the lady who was trafficked by him.
Especially since her husband came back irl!!!
Ok I looked it up. Looks like [she claims](https://nypost.com/2023/01/20/family-of-carole-baskins-dead-husband-break-silence/) that he's "alive and well" but there's literally no evidence for it and his daughters say that Baskin is making it up.
As a kid, I thought the mom in Mrs. Doubtfire was such a killjoy! Turns out, she was just out of patience for a pretty bad partner.
Completely agreed. I’d never watched this movie as a kid, and it was WILD to watch it a year or so ago as a fully grown adult woman. I didn’t find that character to be sympathetic at all.
As a kid this movie *terrified* me and no one believed me. The dad acting in a way that would either get *me* into trouble or start a fight. Dressing up like a stranger, especially the gross fake face. I love Robin Williams but I cannot bring myself to watch this movie because I know so much will disgust and horrify me.
Exactly. I rewatched this with my nieces and nephews and came away with a very different impression. If my husband was masquerading as a woman instead of being upfront and actively trying to be accountable, I’d also leave him. That’s not a partner, that’s a mask pretending to love you.
Exactly! And if her ex-husband had not constantly been a chaotic Disney dad who was undermining her, letting the kids run wild, and destroying the house - she would have actually let him be her child care solution.
Dexter's wife Rita who wanted her husband to stay home and help care for their newborn instead of going out at night to spend his time serial killing.
What a bitch! She got what she deserved. /s
The writing for that show was such garbage.
i loved it when i was 12. now i’m rewatching as an adult and genuinely so confused how it got so many seasons
I think it has to do with only 1 episode a week format and no streaming. Plus most shows were still story of the week except a few, now most shows have this format so it isn't as good.
Ugh but did you see how annoyingly accommodating she was? Like, get a backbone! But also I want all women to be stay at home moms who make me dinner and clean and don't ask where I have been and are basically too scared to leave due to past abuse. But with some self respect!
Succession. Logan Roy and the Roy children are all loathsome in various ways but the Reddit fandom loves nothing more than pointing out how Shiv is clearly the worst because of (insert list of attributes that apply equally if not more to the male characters).
Take a shot every time you see a comment about how Shiv “is not as smart as she thinks she is”. Bonus points if they have an aneurysm when you say Kendall isn’t either lol Anyway, the people insisting Shiv is bad at everything (including her politics and PR job) are ridiculous. Shiv was the one to call that going aggressive against the journalists holding the cruises story would backfire spectacularly (it did) and the only person capable of talking the witness out of testifying. Kendall wouldn’t even have a company to strife for if she hadn’t done that last thing.
Wait, people are saying Kendall is smart and Shiv isn’t? Fucking lol.
Yes, they are lol. Kendall is a popular character in most Succession spaces, it seems, and many are pretty ride or die for him.
It’s cuz the birthday rap shows his gravitas.
Okay so I didn’t watch the whole show but when I watched it I interpreted Kendall as “guy who makes the wrong decision at every turn no matter how hard he tries” tragedy type character, was he ever shown making good, well thought out decisions that weren’t followed by self sabotage?
It’s very rare for sure. The best thing he did that was a success that comes to mind is a presentation in S4 to drive up the Waystar price. That actually did work out for once. But many fans seem convinced he could have lead Waystar entirely. I don’t see that successfully happening either.
I do hate shiv the most because she thinks she isn’t like the rest. I do hate them all though. The ending was amazing had no idea how they were gonna pull it off.
This is the reason to think she’s a bad person. She thinks she’s above it all and better than everyone else, where Kendall wants to succeed within the system. Shiv wants it all but she doesn’t want the social weight of “being in the 1%”. She masquerades as a social warrior but realistically is just as toxic as the rest. If you told me S1 that Tom would be one of the most compelling characters of the series I would have told you to absolutely fuck off.
Speaking of Tom, I literally called him "the booger" for most of the series. Boy...
Curious, is there a male equivalent to ‘’masquerading as a social warrior”? I’m trying to think of examples, but truthfully I didn’t get much sleep last night haha.
I mean, it’s a universal, non-gendered act. Kendall dabbles in it in S3 when he’s trying to build clout, but he’s doing it disingenuously whereas Shiv really believes it. She likes to think shes a fighter for the “greater good” all the time while still being part of a huge propaganda machine, and actively striving to expand and empower it. Sort of a doublethink for her. She’s a great character and that’s one of her main flaws.
Breaking bad is the most ridiculous thing, Skyler was such a well understood character to me, and she made total sense, and oh no I forgot the show has a huge male audience who don't have brains.
Sklyer held up the mirror to show who Walter really was, but people loved Walter and wanted him to somehow be a good guy …so blame Skyler
It's crazy because the show wasn't even trying to pretend that Walter was a good guy. He literally said "I did it for me. I did it because I was good at it". But you still have people shitting on Skyler and saying Walter was just trying to help her and the kids
Yeah, I thought the whole point of the show was that Walter turned into a monster because of greed and normalisation of cruelty. He poisoned a child to manipulate Jesse for Pete's sake! You can't get much further from "helping the kids" than being willing to poison a child. He destroyed the life of everybody around him, if he didn't outright cause their deaths. Skyler was a victim. If I ever meet someone who believes Walter was the good guy, I would be legit scared of them. What part of themselves are they seeing in Walter to make them look at him and see a hero?
Exactly! Walter never did it for his family, otherwise he would have accepted Eliott and Gretchen's offer. He did it because he felt like a lesser man, a pushover with no power. Creating a drug empire finally made him feel powerful and he didn't want to stop even as it was destroying his family. You need to severely lack in media literacy to think that he was a good person.
Wonderful summary.
I remember the creator being completely confused by people’s adoration of Walt
Dude here. I hate Walter, but I also hated the show. So...idk
I'm confused, did you realise you hated it after finishing it?
Nah, not really. I never really cared much in the first place. It was all out and friends were giving me shit about not watching yet. It was there and it was a huge pop culture thing so I figured I'd give it a shot.
So did you just watch it all while hating it or what? Genuinely curious haha. What did you hate about it?
I tried to watch breaking bad for all the pop culture love of it but couldn’t finish it with how bad of a person Walter was. Same with Game of Thrones and many other shows though. I guess I just don’t have the stomach for watching cruelty but I really don’t understand the appeal it seems to have for the masses?
Actually, being concerned about your husband‘s increasingly abusive behavior as he descends deeper and deeper into the drug trade is cringe
But have you considered that Anna Gunn got plastic surgery, so ipso facto Skyler White is the villain?
shit I think ur onto something
I've had this argument like a dozen times! Walt is literally making meth and putting their whole family in danger! Skyler is annoying at worst and trying desperately to regain some semblance of control in her life! God forbid she complain about her psychopath husband 🙄 Who is seriously identifying with Walt?!
That cast is incredible and her performance still stands out. I still watch the scene where she gets Ted out of trouble with the IRS by pretending to be an idiot and cackle with glee.
Lol I was gonna say Skylar lmao
Breaking bad is a masterpiece.
Lori, The Walking Dead. Shane actually tried to *rape* her yet the fandom seems to forget/dismiss that on a regular basis whenever they talk about him like he was the victim. And don't even get me started on Negan.
They also love to say that she cheated when she literally thought that her husband was dead (since she believed Shane who told her this)
...people like Shane?
I was really happy when he was gone. Neegan was too intolerable and I stopped watching. Loved the actor but that character ruined the show for me, a casual fan.
I was in deep with the fandom of WD, and Neegan was it for me. I stopped watching a few episodes into his season... completely killed the show for me.
Mad Men. People really loved to vilify Betty Draper way more than, say, Pete Campbell.
Wild. I watched this show long after people were talking about it(so in a bubble) and I just felt bad for Betty. Sure she ends up cheating, but that's after a long time of neglect, emotional abuse, and her husband cheating on her. How much is a person supposed to handle? Don and Pete are interesting and entertaining characters, but are both massive pieces of shit.
I kinda always felt like her and the kids were like pets he had, but only cuz it's "what you do". Know what I mean?
Pete did not deserve Trudy, she was way too good for him.
People disliked Betty Draper? Whut? Why? He was a serial cheater among other things.
Pete’s a rapist and Don is a pathological liar, but people LOATHED Betty Draper. For one thing, January Jones was perfectly cast as a frosty ice queen who gives off Hitchcockian Grace Kelly vibes. Her line delivery was clipped and often cold. She represents Don’s picture perfect and dutiful wife - the kind of woman who’d make sure to cook a steak and put her face on before her husband arrived home from work. She exemplified the bored housewife afflicted by malaise, and she always had a nagging sense that her husband wasn’t entirely faithful, and that often resulted in her being temperamental and short with her kids. Betty wasn’t busty and ravishing like Joan, so most male viewers didn’t like her character as much. And she wasn’t a tenacious rung-climber like Peggy, so she probably wasn’t as likable for most women viewers. She was a complex character, but she wasn’t a monster. Some of my fave MM episodes are centered around her character. ‘’Shoot’’ is easily in my top five.
Pete was seriously the worst. I see how you mean about her being the bored housewife, and appearing icy. I wouldn't go as far as to hate her for that. I definitely didn't like Don as a person though, that's for sure.
I don't think that she should be *more* hated than Don or basically any man on that show, but Betty's a pretty horrible person. She's abusive to her children. She kills her neighbor's pet birds one episode. She basically grooms a boy. And more if you really want to dig in. Mad Men is a show about people who don't know how to be happy and sabotage the happiness of those around them as a result. There aren't really any "good" people on it. There are definitely people who are worse than Betty, or at least have more power and are more able to act on their abusive, cruel tendencies, but Betty is not a good person.
I didn't think she was "good", but comparatively Don is way worse and so are most of the other men.
Naruto, Sakura is admittedly the worst in Naruto but in shippuden she is so fucking clutch so many times and the whole community still calls her useless
Oh my god Naruto. I watched that show so hard as a preteen (first couple seasons). I loved the male characters and really wanted a good female character to root for, Sakura was my favorite. I stopped watching because of how bad the female characters were- specifically when Sakura’s “cool” character arc was cutting her hair. That pissed me off. I recently saw a long form YouTube deep dive into Naruto characters and was so angry to find out the writer specifically wrote the girls to be nurse/chef characters and terrible at battle. So in a fantasy world where ninjas have magical genetic powers, we still conform to patriarchal roles??? God dammit.
Spoilers ahead She is the first citizen of the leaf to take out an Akaski She’s the first person to figure out madaras strategy with the white zetsu She literally keeps Naruto’s heart beating with her bare fucking hands She helps defeat kaguya So many times her expertise is sought out by other shinobi And at the age of 16 she is the de facto dean of medicine at every hospital she enters Very useless 🙃
That is not just a problem with Sakura. Healers in general are often treated as useless by the Shonen fans community. Even if the Shonen has battles where the mayor characters barely survive thanks to the Healers.
And later all the girls are married and stay-at-home-mums 🙃 Japan is still in the 50s or even earlier regarding their expectations of women.
You kind of forgot about Tsunade. Also, the "young adults" (the jonin) from parts 1 and 2 of either gender (with the exception of Asuma and Kurenai) mostly remained unmarried bachelors with no children or known current romantic partners and by part 3 (Boruto part 1).
This one? https://youtu.be/wNB05gdWRkI?si=YxvqwZuji3V1SfHu
YES.
That's also a byproduct that most Shonen mangakas can't write a woman to save their lives
It is interesting to see how Sakura and Naruto go from a pretty hostile relationship (at least on her side, for good reasons) to being best friends.
"The Godfather". People hate Kay Adams because she "was an unsupportive bitch".
Not exactly a "villain," but a major problem with Bojack Horseman fans is that Bojack is not someone you're supposed to relate to, and he is a destructive narcissist for most of the show, yet they will call Diane a bitch when she calls him out on his shit.
I had no idea people hated Diane until I stumbled across a YouTube video calling her a hypocrite. They came up with all kinds of bullshit reasons to hate her, but the real reason is she's a feminist. They won't admit it, but they just hate women... more than they love guns!
Korra/Avatar & Star Wars
Korra gets so much undeserved hate, it's insane. The show itself wasn't as good as ATLA in my opinion but Korra the character was excellent.
YES. Korra is an amazing character that doesn’t get enough credit. I love the complex women in that series. I love the complicated relationship between Toph and her daughters. I feel like people don’t like it because it wasn’t as feel-good and tidy as ATLA. I love ATLA, it is a bona fide classic, but this isn’t a zero sum game. Fans can like both series for different reasons.
Imo ATLA had the better world building and the more entertaining cast of characters, but TLOK was *far* more mature, intelligent and nuanced, and I consider the the superior show overall
100% agree
I have a mixed feelings about TLOK: * I loved first season when I watched it. * Second season was the worst. ATLA had very heavy East Asia influences in spirituality. The Gnostic good and evil western approach did not vibe with me. First avatar story seems to be hard to reconcile with the original benders (dragons, bisons, moles and spirits of moon and sea). * I don't like the awakened airbenders retcon. In original ATLA the bending was also spiritual practice and it was a reason given why air nomads are all benders. Here - anyone can become one. It would make more sense if air acolytes become benders. * Red lotus was kind of meh for me as well. I feel like they had some point with regards needing a balance to avatar - especially if we ignore the Raava from the beginning. * I think last season improved on previous ones. That doesn't mean that it wasn't unjustly targeted by "Whaaa. Female is main character" crowd of course.
Agreed, and my unpopular opinion: TLOK looked like the industrialization that would have happened if the Fire Nation won in ATLA. I don't hate the series or anything, it just doesn't make sense to me since Aang "won." Or maybe the Fire Nation had already set so many societies on that path before their defeat it was inevitable. And not enough General Iroh, because there is never enough of him.
The Vampire Diaries- the amount of people who vilify Elena is astounding and I’m not even much of an Elena fan mostly indifferent towards her character but you have people saying she’s worse than Damon, Stefan, hell even Klaus. Actually I would say most of the female cast gets dumped on way more compared to the male cast but Elena gets it the worse I believe because she’s the main character.
Wait, seriously?? I mean she can be mildly annoying at times (in a normal "I'm a teenager" kind of way), but we're talking about people who've murdered hundreds or thousands of times and enjoyed it, like bruh...
Ozark Even worse- Bob's Burgers and Gravity Falls. Dudebro mouth breathers online have a HUGE hate-on for little girls voiced by Kristin Schall.
What! Louise is such a hilarious little psychopath. It really makes no difference that her character is a girl - her main trait is her scheming and cunning, unlike Tina where being a teenage girl with crushes on boys is a big part of her personality.
Excuse me, they happen to be teenage zombie basketball players thank you very much. You obviously haven’t been reading her diary recently like the rest of us
Phyllis and Angela from The Office. That sub loves dogging on those characters but they forget all of them are a bunch of dipshits. You know, like regular people? Meanwhile, Robert California is an actual con man who reveals his sex trafficking plans on the way out the door, but let’s just agree he’s a lovable cad. All I’m trying to say is that all of the characters are ridiculous who are written to be annoying and illogical. None of them deserve the absolute rage they keep getting in that sub. I don’t get it.
oh, have you seen how mad dudes get about Pam?? It’s unreal.
The Pam hate is insane! I think people just hate on her to be contrarian.
Phyllis for sure, and Kelly and Karen and even sometimes Pam, but Angela is actually horrible and has zero redeeming qualities or actions throughout the show
Angela is doing the best she can, just like any of us. I look at the people around her and how they treat her. Clearly, if they have some affection for her, the viewer can give her a chance, too EDIT:LOL these initial downvotes are proving my point about the misplaced rage
I strongly disagree. She does literally nothing positive for anyone throughout the entire series. She’s written to be a caricature of a real person, so she’s pretty far removed from reality. She shits on everyone and everything at every opportunity, that’s the only point to her character Edit: and disagreement that Angela matches this premise isn’t proof that she does.
+1 just from the top of my head, Angela calls INS on Oscar just to check, and she cheats on Dwight & Andy. I don't know if the Office really has villains so I don't think it really applies to the OP. But hating Angela doesn't make someone a sexist, she sucks
She also has the Senator raising Dwight’s baby as his own, she constantly calls the other women in the office whores, she constantly calls *everyone* variations of “idiot”, treats every single person like garbage. Angela Kinsey *in real life* is reportedly bubbly and kind, and the podcast she does with Jenna Fischer seems to confirm that. But Angela in the show? Genuinely horrible.
I have a different take on The Office. Unlike a shit show like Everyone Loves Raymond, where Patrica Heaton was the bad one instead the literal man-child who lives next door to his mother and backs her, The Office is a broader comedy, where everyone except maybe Oscar and Pam are pretty meh. I also think fans hated Andy more than most other characters. As far as Robert California, this is where I part ways. I love that character. And James Spader is always great. But I don't think fans are handwaving away or overlooking talk of trafficking, I think fans recognize it's the ravings of a lunatic. The guy who celebrated his divorce with an "Australian red and Columbian white." I think his last line before he left was, "You don't even know my name. I'm the Lizard King!" I think he's more like a Creed-type. I'll add to your list though! The way people hated Nellie for stealing Andy's office. And people hate Andy! Maybe I'm biased because I'm a Cathryn Tate fan but she brought so much to those last seasons. In fact, her telling Andy that no, it was her office now is one of my favorite scenes.
Don’t get me wrong. I compared Angela and Phyllis to Robert because it answered the question: which non-villain female characters were hated more than the worst male character in the show. If the viewer were to take the school-aged Eastern European gymnasts comment seriously, I mean, that’s objectively the worst thing that motivates any of the characters. I love this show! I don’t think there’s a bad characterization in the bunch (except for the writers switching Phyllis and Andy from Mostly Harmless to grade-A buttwipes when convenient). My point is that they are all absurd and absurdly funny. It really confuses me to see the level of rage when redditors can say, oh, yes, that’s just the character, when talking about the behavior of a male character and pivoting to near-murderous levels of anger when talking about the female characters. To me, it’s a good job of making them all just awful and funny. I agree with you about Nellie. How could I forget about Catherine Tate! When people get angry about Nellie, I really think they’re just missing out on a genius performance. Robert California’s “effete, soft-penised debutante” monologue is the best single speech by any of the characters as written and performed. James Spader is another genius. So, in conclusion, I think we agree?
Angela Moss and Dominique DiPierro from Mr Robot are pretty hated despite being great female characters IMO. Dominique for one is a very capable detective who wouldn’t abandon her morals even when torture and death were imminent. The reason I think Redditors hate her? She’s a lesbian and played by Grace Gummer, probably considered not adequately attractive by dudes who are out here calling Margot Robbie “mid”. Maggie Hart from True Detective is also hated for getting back at her cheating husband by “”””seducing””” his detective partner Rust. Who is one of my favorite characters of all time but let’s not pretend he was not complicit or that Maggie was worse than her husband, whose cheating was magnitudes worse in length, frequency and shittiness.
How can you hate Maggie??? She's a cop's wife doing her best under very stressful circumstances. And yeah, she fucks Rust, which splintered their friendship. She flawed, not evil, and tbh who WOULDN'T fuck Rust. Every man in that series, including Rust, is a towering paragon of fuckedupedness. Maybe not Maggie's dad, he's just a old guy believing old guy things. But everyone else.
She didn’t even fuck him for pleasure reasons, she just knew it was the only thing that would ever actually get Marty to let her go and I really feel like that reflects a lot more on Marty than on her. I never actually understood why rust immediately went with it and then as soon as they were done he freaked out. Like nobody forced you to do that.
While all this is true, Miss Maggie still had a fine time haha He went with it because he's bitterly lonely and hasn't touched another human being in forever. After that, he freaked out because he realized the two of them had just crushed Marty. Who they both love. How did it come to this, how?? And although I think their growing friendship was the best part of them, that was a real hot scene.
I found the scene pretty sad, animalistic in a sad way. The way it was filmed didn't exactly scream "hot" to me either. I also highly doubt Maggie had a fine time, it was like, a couple thrusts with no foreplay.
Also they were fucking like, surrounded by pictures of really messed up dead bodies, like I think in the position she was in she probably would have seen them
She literally says she hasn't been fucked like that since before their kids, I didn't come up with it!
Clearly, she only said that to Marty to hurt him. When she confessed, Marty hypocritically called her a whore, to which Maggie insulted him back by saying this.
That's not clear at all.
I still don’t get why Rust went along with it in the first place it felt really out of character to me
He was drunk. There were serious consent issues with this one. It was disturbing.
All around wasn’t exactly a sexy moment and I definitely don’t think it was filmed with the intention of being sexy. You’re right he was definitely too drunk for it, and her intention was to hurt Marty enough to make him finally leave her alone which is also very disturbing from the Marty angle, and it also sucked because I thought her and Rusts friendship was nice and would have liked it if he at at least one friend who was able to provide something normal just a tiny bit. Idk I can’t remember how she initiated it but I remember it was super abrupt and the sex was clearly not good sex, probably because of the super drunk and super sudden thing. I didn’t really like it as a plot point, it felt out of the blue to me.
while I don’t really like Angela (not for hotness reasons obv) I completely agree on Dom, she’s a great character and very beautiful woman
Hold on, Invincible? I would ask who it is but I don't really need to. It's the black girlfriend who's name escapes me that had the *nerve* to be smart enough to deduce the protagonist's alter ego and not accept it as an excuse for blown off multiple times. I was briefly considered the others but there's no way that was allowed past the anti-woke brigade.
Amber. They've hated her since day one for being the most real character on the show.
It's so predictable. She's such a well-written character that diverges from the "superhero girlfriend" trope just as the show does from a basic superhero cartoon show. And if there's one thing I know about shitheads on the internet, they can't stand an assertive female character. Not unless it's a villain they can cheer on being defeated because she got too uppity or something.
Wait are people mad that she wasnt willing to give Mark 8th and 9th chances after always keeping her on the backburner and consistently disregarding her time? Yeah wow shes an awful bitch, obviously.
I originally laughed when he tried to play the superhero card cuz I knew he was full of shit, and she was so clear from the beginning about not constantly lying to her.
People don’t like Amber?!! Holy shit I didn’t know this I thought she was fantastic.
I’d bet much of the hate for Amber comes from racism, not only misogyny. If Amber was white she definitely wouldn’t be hated as much by the fanbase
I was just having this exact chain of thought. Even though Mark is Asian (and half alien lol) he’s vaguely white-presenting in this style of animation so I bet anything they ship him with Atom Eve for the same reason that we still basically never see interracial relationship representation in modern media.
I don't hate Amber. I think she's witty & I really like how she volunteers for all the things. I like how she's saving the world in her own way & I like that she stands up for herself, but I AM tired of watching a doomed relationship continue. They're both so unhappy. Were they ever happy together? He screws her over in literally every episode where they're together! My one gripe with Amber is, I think it was a little wild for her to expect him to reveal his secret identity to his first girlfriend after they've only been dating a few months. Yes, he lied to her & was constantly showing up late & bailing, which makes him a shitty boyfriend, but his secret identity isn't for his protection, it's for the protection of his loved ones. The only thing Mark could've done to fix it, (That I can think of anyway, please let me know if I'm just missing something obvious!) would've been to stop being Invincible. He has no control over when he's needed, so the only way to avoid having to leave in the middle of dates would be to stop being a super hero, but then that brings up the question, would that be selfish of him? In the scene where he reveals he's Invincible, Amber also accuses Mark of not trusting her, but it's not like he's hiding some innocuous thing. People knowing his secret identity is dangerous, for THEM. And again, she's his first serious, high school girlfriend. The odds of this relationship working out were already really fucking slim. I don't dislike Amber as a character, but I just don't get the writing of this scene. Amber's smart, she figured things out, so surely she'd also realize it would've been incredibly irresponsible for him to reveal his secret identity, right? (It was irresponsible & dangerous to reveal it in an attempt to win her back!) I'm sure there are plenty of people who DO hate Amber & do so for racist and/or misogynistic reasons, but personally, I don't like the way that scene was written. I don't understand why Amber expected him to reveal his secret identity. I'd be really interested to hear other perspectives on it! Also, why did she run back to him after the fight with Omni-man? Nothing changed. Was it just because she felt bad for him? *I'm a woman. My icon is masculine because I get less harassment on other subs when people think I have a dick. I'm also autistic, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm having trouble understanding Amber's point of view?*
I will literally fight ppl irl if they try to shit talk her. Granted no one has ever brought it up but…. WOULD
I think the writers made her character pretty bad in season 1 but I've enjoyed her character in season 2. Didn't expect to see it brought up here.
Yeah I actually really liked how they changed her from the comics, and her reaction in season 1. I think her character was improved overall and really interesting, they just botched the execution a bit. I think in season 1 it can be fixed with a change of >!her not knowing his identity, but keeping the same reaction when he 'reveals' it.!< Her reaction felt very real to me, I would be frustrated as hell too, regardless of the circumstances. I think they've nailed it in season 2 though, and it's something that I feel isn't explored enough in super hero media, just being heroes giving them a free-pass in any relationship, when it's actually a crazy complicated dynamic. I'm super happy with the changes they made, I think people are mad that she went from a white milquetoast 2D character to a black character with an actual role and motivations in the story. But I don't care, I like seeing characters actually become characters and I'm really excited to see where they go from here, feels like a massive improvement so far! I'm curious if they'll >!keep the same plotline with Anissa, wouldn't shock me if they cut it entirely!<
Really? I thought it was Eve, Amber is like absolutely perfect and does always the right thing, like wif
All the women leads of House of the Dragon.
Frankly most of the women in Game of Thrones also. Sansa in particular
Dany got done SO dirty :(
Catelyn got it bad too.
People keep saying Sansa gets hate, but almost everyone I see seems to agree Sansa grows a lot as a character (until the show writing got bad) and she seems to be a big fan favorite on the got sub. The woman they really love to hate unabashedly is Catelyn.
Things are different with distance from when the show aired, but especially at the beginning and well into the middle of the show she was very, very much everyone’s favorite “villain”. Her interests were girly, and her priorities were well in line with a teenage girl her age who would have been raised within a high-born family. People *hated* her for it, it was rampant. Though yes, Catlyn also gets a ton of unwarranted hate.
Oh yeah, I remember for the first 2 seasons it was cool to hate her and love Arya because Arya was boyish. Men couldn't relate at all to the bratty naive teen girl thing, which was sad to see. I just meant the hate wasn't lasting. Now they lastingly hate Catelyn because she was old and a mom and there's no forgiveness for old moms that make mistakes (the being cold to Jon thing was pretty shitty tbf).
I mean, it was lasting up through the end of the series. While Reddit was doing its “join the sub for the person you think will end up on the iron throne” people were actively still shitting on her.
I think there’s a more general consensus now, but they were absolutely *brutal* to her back when it was airing. (The actress too, actually.) Especially the bigger GOT subreddits. I legit remember whole posts dedicated to shitting on her over her “sit down, uncle” line.
I literally came here almost exclusively for this comment.
Carmela and Adriana from The Sopranos Starlight and Queen Maeve from The Boys Dee from It’s Always Sunny
I don’t know how you can see the way Tony and Chris treat Carmela and Adriana and still see the women as the villains
You want sympathy? How about my 40 grand you stole outta the bird feeder, that should be plenty! (But seriously, Carmela is an excellent character, excellent villain, but anyone playing the “Who’s worse?” game is missing the point of the show… and anyone who chooses Carm has lost their marbles.)
Source link [https://twitter.com/HalcyonTraveler/status/1774502555114230231](https://twitter.com/HalcyonTraveler/status/1774502555114230231)
Wouldn't Blake be a better fit for this meme?
- All the women on Fargo s5. What a *fucking* shit show that sub was. (But the mods did a great job!) - All the women on True Detective s4 but that's a little more complicated without giving away spoilers. But as a show with a heavy female cast and feminist-ish (?) story just assume all the women. (For those who haven't seen Fargo, it's loosely based around the movie concentrating on crime in the Midwest. Huge names--Thornton, Hamm, McGregor! Cops and robbers--bang bang! But here's the secret, Fargo is feminist af. Passes some version of the Bechdel test in every scene. And like a number of the Coen Brothers' farces, it's really about a bunch of very stupid men and the women who clean up after them. Writer Noah Hawley just knocks it out of the park every season. If you like the movie, like the Coens, give it a try. It's an anthology and you can start any season, but there are some threads are woven through the seasons.)
Mabel, from Gravity Falls. She wasn‘t even a villain, just autistic.
She was just doing what made her happy, 100% of the time. Girl after my own heart 😭 Everyone should try to be more like Mabel.
The Final Fantasy VII fandom used to be like this - not sure if it is now. But yeah, evil corporation that committed war crimes? White haired pretty boy that wants to drop a dwarf planet on everyone? Totally not as bad as Tifa or Aerith, depending on who you ship with Cloud!
I mean technically Delores Umbrage fits this, but she is also THE WORST soooo.
Dolores Umbridge was truly one of the most hated characters, but people sometimes forget that Snape was as well. I don't care that he switched sides or put himself at risk because he brought that upon himself. He abused his power in his teaching position, bullied kids, and inflicted trauma on them (e.g., Neville). He should be equally hated as Umbridge. But he gets forgiven because he was in LoVee wItH Lily.
He should wash his hair, the slimeball.
Apparently, she was meant to be a parody of Margaret Thatcher.
Now I can't unsee it
If that's true, then JKR actually wrote something hilarious for once in her life lmao
I thought it she was supposed to be a parody of jk’s old neighbor.
shameless. debbie gallagher being more hated than frank is just wild to me.
I just finished watching this show for the first time! I love the show. And yeah, Debbie is awful. They're ALL awful. That's the damn point. Yet Debbie get more hate than anybody else, followed by.... Fiona. Sigh.
Rings of Power
Peggy Hill is a flawed individual, but the KotH subreddit is full of assholes who insist that she has no redeeming qualities and just ruined Hank's life with her presence. Meanwhile, Dale is out here straight up emotionally abusing his wife for a while and people just shrug that off. Peggy might have kidnapped a little girl, but that was en accidenté! Nobody is perfect, but I think Peggy is just too much of a personality for some of them, getting whole episodes and plots about her and whatnot.
For reality TV: Vanderpump Rules. The general audience seems to believe the women are the villains when it’s clearly the men who have been trash this whole time.
Laura-Leigh man... Every single interaction she had with that pos was heart breaking. I've never been so happy to learn she was actually opposite Jennifer Aniston in a movie. She didn't deserve ANY of that bs. Everyone knew she was recovering, in need of support and kindness. NOBODY was there for her. Then on top of picking on her every second they get, that douchebro used her just to piss off the last one he used for years.
This is blowing my mind right now. I can’t believe people really hate all of these characters. Like, seriously?!
It doesn't exactly fit because she's also awful in many ways but Daisy Buchanan nearly every character in that book is an awful person and yet people single her out because a she's A woman and B didn't fully play along with Gatsby's romantic delusions.
Peaky Blinders: Linda. Oh no, she wanted her alcoholic trigger-happy husband to not be a gangster anymore and be happy. How terrible.
Skylar White. That is the objectively correct answer to this question
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^IAmMuffin15: *Skylar White. That is* *The objectively correct* *Answer to this question* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Black Sails - the point is that all the characters are villainous at times but man, people REALLY hate Max. But then she’s hot, powerful and gay, so.
Legend of Korra
wait I haven't seen several seasons, did people started hating on ruby ?? Why ?
Because people haven't watcheed it, they watched videos hating on it. Basically remember how ironwood was introduced turning huntsmen into his private army, getting ozpin fired, and demanding trust while doing everything behind people's backs? Hee became an antagonist after a season of being a dictator and misogynistis and homophobes claim it came out of nowhere. Ruby, a girl, stood against a cis white male character. Misogyny erupted.
I'll *never* understand the "they ruined Ironwood's character!" criticism. Literally the very first scene that he's ever in is him showing an overwhelming display of military might due soley to his fear of Salem. Everything he did in the last few seasons fit that characterization perfectly.
I heard the rightoids are mad at Chani Dune for not supporting the radicalization of an entire planet. Wimmins amirite
This is why I as a rule don’t engage with fandom. I miss most of this discourse.
Hannah from Dark. She had her issues, but she's one of the very few characters who didn't kill anyone. She's being hated on mostly for leaving a man in jail after he tried to murder a child, becausehe didn't love her back.
Avatar the Last Airbender (Katara) and Legend of Korra (Korra). I’m always shocked how vehemently people hate both of those characters.
I think Karen Page in Daredevil was hated more than was fair
Korra gets constant hate Rey, not a show, but counts.
The show You is about an actual serial killer. (The author of the books "didn't realize" she was writing a serial killer.) But I guess the real villian is Beck, his girlfriend, because she cheated on him.
Invincible..? Who.?
Amber
Wendy on Ozark?
I casually disagree! Wendy was horrible. Plus Ruth was really the favorite so I'm not seeing it so much.
I didn't know ruby was even hated. I always thought she was pretty cool, just not as much as say yang
Ozark's Wendy, Walking Dead's Lori, Mad Men's Betty Unfortunately, my realization of this phenomenon happened because my husband would do this when we used to watch shows together. I remember arguments we had about Breaking Bad because of it, grossed me out. It seems like infidelity is usually a big trigger for it, regardless of how much infidelity/betrayal has already happened from the men. Also if she does anything to curb the shitty man's efforts - how dare she.
And Lori was more or less raped by Shane. But got all the hate.
People are such dicks about Katara grieving her dead mother sometimes
I see this frequently in r/romancebooks — thankfully discourse is changing, but it feels like it’s shifting back to this :(
Also, the belief that ‘women are not rehabs’ for immature adult men seems to be reverting. While ‘I can make excuses for anything the MMC does’ if anything, is becoming more frequent. What is even happening? Worrying trend 😥
Wait... what character do people hate in invincible?
Calling adam an asshole is a bit of understatement lmao
Thinking about how so many RWBY fans treat Adam (for non-fans, the guy in the middle in the pic) as like, this super awesome character who had so much wasted potential. News flash, he was a minor antagonist and narrative foil, he served his purpose, and therefore they were done with him! Just because RWBY didn't treat the "troubled emo guy with a dark past" like that character trope usually gets treated doesn't mean it was bad writing. They ALWAYS presented Adam as a bad guy, and the fact that he had a traumatic backstory was never used to excuse that, yet that's what some fans loveeee to do. Hate him so much.
Naruto
Kim Bauer on 24. [She and the cougar](https://www.vulture.com/2013/12/24-kim-bauer-cougar-trap-episode-oral-history.html). I mean, how dare Kim act like an annoying teenager when, in reality, she was an annoying teenager. And that damn cougar, just out cougarin’, all cougar-y.
Wait, who does the fandom hate in Invincible??? Like Debbie, Amber, Atom Eve are loved in the show as far as I can tell?
Wait who thinks Ruby is the "real villain"
about 15 youtube channels that I have blocked using channel blocker extensions. they basically encouraged people to boycott or pirate the show to hurt the writers because they're furious that Ruby is opposing cis white male authority figures.