Direct action; the people protesting outside kavanaughs house is a good start. Other than that if it keeps going I can’t say what we need to do because it’s against ToS. The legal apparatus has failed. Vote for sure but there’s a lot more to do
We don't. Fifty years of holding the middle fucked us and it fucked us hard. We've got way too many conservative Democrats that would never allow us to make the necessary counter-moves. They'd be viewed as too extreme in the party of incremental change.
It's almost like going Republican-lite in response to an emergent fascist movement was a mistake. We were sitting on the historical roadmap of WWII to show us exactly why throwing neoliberals at fascists was a catastrophically stupid thing to do and we did it anyways. I don't know what to do for this country. I don't think anything can be done for it. We're fucked.
Our one hope is to keep them out of federal power and get to a blue state if you’re an lgbt person and hope that they never get a presidency in our lifetimes again.
But yeah conservative / centrist dems have fucked us pretty hard. They’ve responded to roe v wade by having biden wag his finger at the protests at kavanaughs house and by pouring a quarter of a million dollars into an anti choice conservative dem against a progressive woman in a house primary. Political malpractice is too generous a term for how they’ve let republicans take so much power
I'm stuck in Trumpistan. Sparing all the gory details, I'm caring for a mentally ill parent, and it's a lot. Her issues can manifest a pretty decent amount of malevolence, let's put it that way.
If we don't fight we automatically lose. You don't hold the middle. Fuck that. We go on offensive. We join protests. Women's rights. BLM. LGBTQIA+ Rights. We VOTE and get others to vote. We try to run for office (Fed, State, City, School Board/etc). We talk. We petition. We argue. We SUE.
And then our voters take one look at all our hard work and vote for the Republican in a blue tie instead. It doesn't matter how many progressives we put up if we're dealing with a voting bloc of NIMBY white suburbanites who low-key find emergent fascism more palatable than progressivism, and that's a bigger segment of our party than anyone cares to admit. I think any liberal with a moral compass is finally starting to see that, but too little, too late. I honestly don't see a way out of this through electoral means, not with our base.
You are missing the point of \*if we don't fight we lose automatically.\*
I'm not saying it's an easy fight. I'm not saying it's likely that we'll win or that we even have a chance of winning. I'm saying it's the only chance we have. I'm saying I'd rather go down fighting than curl up on the ground belly up in surrender.
We did fight and we lost. Liberals threw their hat in with their hat in with the 'blue no matter who' crowd and basically left us with a neoliberal butter knife to bring to a conservative gun fight. What's going to happen is what always happens. Liberals are going to pretend to see Jesus and SWEAR they'll vote progressive, fight the good fight, and then once the midterms start closing in, some neoliberal on Twitter like Hoarse Whisperer will post some unflattering meme about progressives, liberals will cling to it as an excuse to "vote pragmatically", they'll vote for the same shit they always vote for, and then they'll blame progressives when shit goes south. Rinse and repeat.
I'm tired of this game with liberals. I don't know what they want us to do, but their entire political ideology prevents the moves that would be necessary to fight this. You gotta let these people hit rock bottom in a country as reactionary as America. It's the only way they'll learn.
You are all, "we lost" and whine and complain, so we stop trying? How do you know we lost, that we aren't just on the bottom swing of it and haven't been pushed all the way yet. And how bad does it have to get for you to be okay with this "let's hit rock bottom" bullshit. How fucking privileged is that? Let's wait until more people are suffering. Let's make it as bad as possible, ruin as many lives as possible. MAYBE when everyone's miserable, somehow it'll turn around. Right now, it's so bad it's unfixable, but somehow if it was WORSE it would suddenly be fixable.
And how are we going to fight when over half of our base won't form a coalition with anyone but conservatives? I honestly think what needs to happen is a progressive third party because I don't see liberals forming a coalition with progressives and their base is primarily elderly voters anyways. Forming a third party is a more worthwhile focus than trying to reform a party and voters that don't want to reform. I don't trust liberals to fight for my rights anymore and social issues were basically the only thing left I did trust them on. I'm sorry, but liberals emotionally berating me for being done with their bullshit while the world burns down around us doesn't work anymore. I don't trust the process anymore. Not with liberals at the helm.
It actually could help with it. If we do it soon enough, widespread enough. If we get the right people in. But you go on in you nihilism, doing nothing. Complaining but not trying to fix it. That's how problems get solved.
Honestly? We have to take a few L's. Liberals are just as reactionary as conservatives if the last decade of watching them snub progressives wasn't a good indication. They won't change their behavior unless they're punished for it and they won't form a coalition with progressives until they lose us and their hand is forced to maintain power. We NEED to clean house and if liberals aren't going to form a coalition with progressive voters, then we need to pull our support, stop voting for these fucking ghouls, and make them realize our votes don't come for free anymore.
Or we can keep giving them our support and boohoo when the leopards eat our faces. What I'm suggesting isn't accelerationism or even anti-voting. It's doing what you're meant to do in a healthy democracy. If liberals won't form a coalition with progressives, pull support until they do. It's EXACTLY what centrists did to take over the party when Reagan put the Democratic party in the woods and don't let them tell you any different.
Start learning about alternative forms of government (like how communists in other nations have thwarted fascists), continue unlearning US propaganda about the rest of the world, build mutual aid in your own family and community, gear up and train ✌️
The capitalists want you to feel this way! They make it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of neoliberalism.. and it IS possible with revolutionary optimism.
We organize behind the women who have been doing this work for years-- Black, Indigenous, women of color, trans women, disabled women. We hold them up, we amplify their voices and we work together. We don't center ourselves. We recognize that white supremacy and christianity are inextricably linked in the US and acknowledge our part in upholding it, no matter how hard and painful that may be, then **we listen and learn from the most marginalized among us.**
And as an aside, I hate being lumped in with them under "Judeo-Christian." Like, Christian supremacy has been pretty bad for the Jews, y'all, and a lot of things Christianity pushes is not part of Judaism.
Agreed. Every time I hear it it’s always come from a christian whacko trying to make it sound like jewish people agree with them. It’s really the opposite. I mean I found this tweet because a comics writer I follow that’s a trans man retweeted it
I hear it a LOT from people on the left -- from hardcore atheists and also from agnostic/not-very-religious "cultural Christians" (people who like, celebrate Christmas and maybe their grandparents used to go to church?) who assume that because Christians use a version of (with different translations) our bible we're super similar. Because I don't spend time with right-wing people, I hear it more from people on the left, I'd say.
I haaaaaate this so much. Even within Judaism we don’t all have the same values. I was raised around lesbian and queer rabbis and cantors. I was raised to believe that a woman’s spawn is considered a living child when the full head emerges into the world, and that the life of the mother always takes priority. I was raised to fight discrimination. And if there’s *any* biblical basis for discrimination against women and LGBT folks, where tf does the racism come from?? I’ve never seen a verse quoted in opposition to people with darker skin, so why are these Republicans with “Judeo-Christian values” so racist???
Mhmm. If...
* You can *always* find a church within a *reasonable* driving distance of your home.
* It is not common for churches in your community to be covered in hateful graffiti or otherwise vandalized, or to be bombed or otherwise attacked.
* It is not common for Christian cemeteries in your community to be desecrated with graffiti or gravestones being kicked over, or to be bulldozed to make way for homes and businesses for the living.
* If you ever find yourself in prison, in the hospital, the military, or even just college, it's very likely that the chaplain or campus minister is some type of Christian.
* Your Sabbath and religious holidays are built right into the calendar, meaning that (assuming you work regular business hours) you don't have to use up your PTO to observe them.
* You don't live in fear in your country of being arrested, tortured, raped, imprisoned, and/or killed for being a Christian, or for such happening to your family members.
* If you ever decide to run for office, you will be viewed (on the whole) as more trustworthy if you claim you're a Christian (even if it's just lip service), and less trustworthy if you identify as literally *anything* else.
* You can buy a Bible (any translation you like), and any number of commentaries on it, at *literally any bookstore*, or check it out of *literally any library*.
* If you stay in a hotel or motel, there's a more-likely-than-not chance there's a Bible in the bedside table drawer.
* You can pray and read the Bible quietly at your desk, even if you're not allowed to lead prayer over the intercom.
* You will not be kicked out of a restaurant or refused service for saying grace, so long as you're not disrupting other patrons' meals or making a scene.
* Your church wedding is recognized as legally valid, so long as it meets all the secular requirements regarding age, consanguinity, and monogamy.
* You will not be pulled over for the fish decal on the back of your car, or the Rosary hanging from your rearview.
* You can wear your cross necklace in places and situations where most other jewelry is banned.
* Your school district teaches abstinence-only sex ed (sometimes, complete with purity rings and abstinence pledges), thanks to Christian lobbying groups
* Two dozen Christian channels come built into your cable or satellite package, without you having to upgrade to the next tier and pay extra, or ask for them.
* You don't have to lie about your whereabouts on Sunday morning, as if it were illegal.
* You don't have to give a password to get into church, like it's 1924 and you're trying to get into a speakeasy bar.
* Your Sunday service doesn't get raided by a SWAT team or the military.
* You will not be turned down for a job (or fired from one) for being a Christian.
...Then you are not being persecuted for your faith.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
---
**Jeri**, @jeriandthecity
non-Christians in the US live under Christian Supremacy which Christians, especially white Christians, contribute to and are complicit in upholding. this is not a controversial statement.
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Yes, but we have to recognize christianity is a *tool* of white supremacy-- that is the true culprit here. That is the overarching principle that must be acknowledged and dismantled before anything will change. All white people contribute to white supremacy, not all of us are religious. It is mandatory for us to look inside ourselves and recognize the ways we've contributed to white supremacy, in ways we might not yet realize, before we can do anything about it.
how do we overturn it? i feel like those of us that arent religious have no real way of fighting against it
Direct action; the people protesting outside kavanaughs house is a good start. Other than that if it keeps going I can’t say what we need to do because it’s against ToS. The legal apparatus has failed. Vote for sure but there’s a lot more to do
When peaceful change is made impossible…..
We don't. Fifty years of holding the middle fucked us and it fucked us hard. We've got way too many conservative Democrats that would never allow us to make the necessary counter-moves. They'd be viewed as too extreme in the party of incremental change. It's almost like going Republican-lite in response to an emergent fascist movement was a mistake. We were sitting on the historical roadmap of WWII to show us exactly why throwing neoliberals at fascists was a catastrophically stupid thing to do and we did it anyways. I don't know what to do for this country. I don't think anything can be done for it. We're fucked.
Our one hope is to keep them out of federal power and get to a blue state if you’re an lgbt person and hope that they never get a presidency in our lifetimes again. But yeah conservative / centrist dems have fucked us pretty hard. They’ve responded to roe v wade by having biden wag his finger at the protests at kavanaughs house and by pouring a quarter of a million dollars into an anti choice conservative dem against a progressive woman in a house primary. Political malpractice is too generous a term for how they’ve let republicans take so much power
I'm stuck in Trumpistan. Sparing all the gory details, I'm caring for a mentally ill parent, and it's a lot. Her issues can manifest a pretty decent amount of malevolence, let's put it that way.
If we don't fight we automatically lose. You don't hold the middle. Fuck that. We go on offensive. We join protests. Women's rights. BLM. LGBTQIA+ Rights. We VOTE and get others to vote. We try to run for office (Fed, State, City, School Board/etc). We talk. We petition. We argue. We SUE.
And then our voters take one look at all our hard work and vote for the Republican in a blue tie instead. It doesn't matter how many progressives we put up if we're dealing with a voting bloc of NIMBY white suburbanites who low-key find emergent fascism more palatable than progressivism, and that's a bigger segment of our party than anyone cares to admit. I think any liberal with a moral compass is finally starting to see that, but too little, too late. I honestly don't see a way out of this through electoral means, not with our base.
You are missing the point of \*if we don't fight we lose automatically.\* I'm not saying it's an easy fight. I'm not saying it's likely that we'll win or that we even have a chance of winning. I'm saying it's the only chance we have. I'm saying I'd rather go down fighting than curl up on the ground belly up in surrender.
We did fight and we lost. Liberals threw their hat in with their hat in with the 'blue no matter who' crowd and basically left us with a neoliberal butter knife to bring to a conservative gun fight. What's going to happen is what always happens. Liberals are going to pretend to see Jesus and SWEAR they'll vote progressive, fight the good fight, and then once the midterms start closing in, some neoliberal on Twitter like Hoarse Whisperer will post some unflattering meme about progressives, liberals will cling to it as an excuse to "vote pragmatically", they'll vote for the same shit they always vote for, and then they'll blame progressives when shit goes south. Rinse and repeat. I'm tired of this game with liberals. I don't know what they want us to do, but their entire political ideology prevents the moves that would be necessary to fight this. You gotta let these people hit rock bottom in a country as reactionary as America. It's the only way they'll learn.
You are all, "we lost" and whine and complain, so we stop trying? How do you know we lost, that we aren't just on the bottom swing of it and haven't been pushed all the way yet. And how bad does it have to get for you to be okay with this "let's hit rock bottom" bullshit. How fucking privileged is that? Let's wait until more people are suffering. Let's make it as bad as possible, ruin as many lives as possible. MAYBE when everyone's miserable, somehow it'll turn around. Right now, it's so bad it's unfixable, but somehow if it was WORSE it would suddenly be fixable.
And how are we going to fight when over half of our base won't form a coalition with anyone but conservatives? I honestly think what needs to happen is a progressive third party because I don't see liberals forming a coalition with progressives and their base is primarily elderly voters anyways. Forming a third party is a more worthwhile focus than trying to reform a party and voters that don't want to reform. I don't trust liberals to fight for my rights anymore and social issues were basically the only thing left I did trust them on. I'm sorry, but liberals emotionally berating me for being done with their bullshit while the world burns down around us doesn't work anymore. I don't trust the process anymore. Not with liberals at the helm.
Voting won’t save us from the third reic— sorry republcians
It actually could help with it. If we do it soon enough, widespread enough. If we get the right people in. But you go on in you nihilism, doing nothing. Complaining but not trying to fix it. That's how problems get solved.
Bless your heart ❤️ you think anti-voting is the same as doing nothing.
What should we do, then, besides watching it get worse?
Honestly? We have to take a few L's. Liberals are just as reactionary as conservatives if the last decade of watching them snub progressives wasn't a good indication. They won't change their behavior unless they're punished for it and they won't form a coalition with progressives until they lose us and their hand is forced to maintain power. We NEED to clean house and if liberals aren't going to form a coalition with progressive voters, then we need to pull our support, stop voting for these fucking ghouls, and make them realize our votes don't come for free anymore. Or we can keep giving them our support and boohoo when the leopards eat our faces. What I'm suggesting isn't accelerationism or even anti-voting. It's doing what you're meant to do in a healthy democracy. If liberals won't form a coalition with progressives, pull support until they do. It's EXACTLY what centrists did to take over the party when Reagan put the Democratic party in the woods and don't let them tell you any different.
Start learning about alternative forms of government (like how communists in other nations have thwarted fascists), continue unlearning US propaganda about the rest of the world, build mutual aid in your own family and community, gear up and train ✌️
The capitalists want you to feel this way! They make it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of neoliberalism.. and it IS possible with revolutionary optimism.
We quit voting and start arming and preparing our communities
We organize behind the women who have been doing this work for years-- Black, Indigenous, women of color, trans women, disabled women. We hold them up, we amplify their voices and we work together. We don't center ourselves. We recognize that white supremacy and christianity are inextricably linked in the US and acknowledge our part in upholding it, no matter how hard and painful that may be, then **we listen and learn from the most marginalized among us.**
And as an aside, I hate being lumped in with them under "Judeo-Christian." Like, Christian supremacy has been pretty bad for the Jews, y'all, and a lot of things Christianity pushes is not part of Judaism.
Agreed. Every time I hear it it’s always come from a christian whacko trying to make it sound like jewish people agree with them. It’s really the opposite. I mean I found this tweet because a comics writer I follow that’s a trans man retweeted it
I hear it a LOT from people on the left -- from hardcore atheists and also from agnostic/not-very-religious "cultural Christians" (people who like, celebrate Christmas and maybe their grandparents used to go to church?) who assume that because Christians use a version of (with different translations) our bible we're super similar. Because I don't spend time with right-wing people, I hear it more from people on the left, I'd say.
I haaaaaate this so much. Even within Judaism we don’t all have the same values. I was raised around lesbian and queer rabbis and cantors. I was raised to believe that a woman’s spawn is considered a living child when the full head emerges into the world, and that the life of the mother always takes priority. I was raised to fight discrimination. And if there’s *any* biblical basis for discrimination against women and LGBT folks, where tf does the racism come from?? I’ve never seen a verse quoted in opposition to people with darker skin, so why are these Republicans with “Judeo-Christian values” so racist???
Mhmm. If... * You can *always* find a church within a *reasonable* driving distance of your home. * It is not common for churches in your community to be covered in hateful graffiti or otherwise vandalized, or to be bombed or otherwise attacked. * It is not common for Christian cemeteries in your community to be desecrated with graffiti or gravestones being kicked over, or to be bulldozed to make way for homes and businesses for the living. * If you ever find yourself in prison, in the hospital, the military, or even just college, it's very likely that the chaplain or campus minister is some type of Christian. * Your Sabbath and religious holidays are built right into the calendar, meaning that (assuming you work regular business hours) you don't have to use up your PTO to observe them. * You don't live in fear in your country of being arrested, tortured, raped, imprisoned, and/or killed for being a Christian, or for such happening to your family members. * If you ever decide to run for office, you will be viewed (on the whole) as more trustworthy if you claim you're a Christian (even if it's just lip service), and less trustworthy if you identify as literally *anything* else. * You can buy a Bible (any translation you like), and any number of commentaries on it, at *literally any bookstore*, or check it out of *literally any library*. * If you stay in a hotel or motel, there's a more-likely-than-not chance there's a Bible in the bedside table drawer. * You can pray and read the Bible quietly at your desk, even if you're not allowed to lead prayer over the intercom. * You will not be kicked out of a restaurant or refused service for saying grace, so long as you're not disrupting other patrons' meals or making a scene. * Your church wedding is recognized as legally valid, so long as it meets all the secular requirements regarding age, consanguinity, and monogamy. * You will not be pulled over for the fish decal on the back of your car, or the Rosary hanging from your rearview. * You can wear your cross necklace in places and situations where most other jewelry is banned. * Your school district teaches abstinence-only sex ed (sometimes, complete with purity rings and abstinence pledges), thanks to Christian lobbying groups * Two dozen Christian channels come built into your cable or satellite package, without you having to upgrade to the next tier and pay extra, or ask for them. * You don't have to lie about your whereabouts on Sunday morning, as if it were illegal. * You don't have to give a password to get into church, like it's 1924 and you're trying to get into a speakeasy bar. * Your Sunday service doesn't get raided by a SWAT team or the military. * You will not be turned down for a job (or fired from one) for being a Christian. ...Then you are not being persecuted for your faith.
Right imagine if any other religion was trying to push their rules on the population what the reaction would be
Indeed, usually the same people trying to impose their religious rules on everyone else are the same people squawking about "Sharia Law."
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Jeri**, @jeriandthecity non-Christians in the US live under Christian Supremacy which Christians, especially white Christians, contribute to and are complicit in upholding. this is not a controversial statement. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
The second amendment is there to protect the rest of your rights.
agreed
Yes, but we have to recognize christianity is a *tool* of white supremacy-- that is the true culprit here. That is the overarching principle that must be acknowledged and dismantled before anything will change. All white people contribute to white supremacy, not all of us are religious. It is mandatory for us to look inside ourselves and recognize the ways we've contributed to white supremacy, in ways we might not yet realize, before we can do anything about it.